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Rights and Liberties

Forgive and Forget the Crimes of the Bushies? I Don't Think So

By Paul Krugman, The New York Times. Posted January 19, 2009.


So Mr. Obama should reconsider his apparent decision to let the previous administration get away with crime.
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Ed. Note: With powerful establishment figures like Nancy Pelosi now speaking publicly about the possiblility of pursuing the criminal acts of the Bush Administration, it's vital to keep the discussion going.

Last Sunday President-elect Barack Obama was asked whether he would seek an investigation of possible crimes by the Bush administration. "I don't believe that anybody is above the law," he responded, but "we need to look forward as opposed to looking backwards."

I'm sorry, but if we don't have an inquest into what happened during the Bush years -- and nearly everyone has taken Mr. Obama's remarks to mean that we won't -- this means that those who hold power are indeed above the law because they don't face any consequences if they abuse their power.

Let's be clear what we're talking about here. It's not just torture and illegal wiretapping, whose perpetrators claim, however implausibly, that they were patriots acting to defend the nation's security. The fact is that the Bush administration's abuses extended from environmental policy to voting rights. And most of the abuses involved using the power of government to reward political friends and punish political enemies.

At the Justice Department, for example, political appointees illegally reserved nonpolitical positions for "right-thinking Americans" -- their term, not mine -- and there's strong evidence that officials used their positions both to undermine the protection of minority voting rights and to persecute Democratic politicians.

The hiring process at Justice echoed the hiring process during the occupation of Iraq -- an occupation whose success was supposedly essential to national security -- in which applicants were judged by their politics, their personal loyalty to President Bush and, according to some reports, by their views on Roe v. Wade, rather than by their ability to do the job.

Speaking of Iraq, let's also not forget that country's failed reconstruction: the Bush administration handed billions of dollars in no-bid contracts to politically connected companies, companies that then failed to deliver. And why should they have bothered to do their jobs? Any government official who tried to enforce accountability on, say, Halliburton quickly found his or her career derailed.

There's much, much more. By my count, at least six important government agencies experienced major scandals over the past eight years -- in most cases, scandals that were never properly investigated. And then there was the biggest scandal of all: Does anyone seriously doubt that the Bush administration deliberately misled the nation into invading Iraq?


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Which is It Mr Krugman ?
Posted by: mmckinl on Jan 19, 2009 1:02 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This ~

"Meanwhile, about Mr. Obama: while it's probably in his short-term political interests to forgive and forget, next week he's going to swear to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States." That's not a conditional oath to be honored only when it's convenient.

And to protect and defend the Constitution, a president must do more than obey the Constitution himself; he must hold those who violate the Constitution accountable. So Mr. Obama should reconsider his apparent decision to let the previous administration get away with crime. Consequences aside, that's not a decision he has the right to make."

Or This ~

"That's why this time we need a full accounting. Not a witch hunt, maybe not even prosecutions, but something like the Truth and Reconciliation Commission that helped South Africa come to terms with what happened under apartheid."

(emphasis added mine ~ mmckinl)

What Obama Must Do A Letter to the New President

from : Paul Krugman

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» RE: Krugman's cover is blown Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Nancy Pelosi wants an investigation, like she wants a root canal
Posted by: Sister_Lauren on Jan 19, 2009 3:27 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the interview, linked in the story she clearly makes a face when he asks her about Conyers, he is pussy footing the question because he himself is guilty of involvement in propagandizing their war crimes. It is a fascinating drama to watch.

She makes her face because she doesn't want to do this, she has too. She can't stop Conyers and they both know it. If she tries too hard she involves herself in the cover-up. She is there already, the Bushes sucked her in, but she is trying to keep away from it. She could be indicted too.

All she can do is plausibly stall, something she has been doing a lot of already. I sent Conyers a hand written note including a copy of the Rasta Testimonial telling him about my case and begging for help. He has been relentlessly on it ever since, and in my opinion, is our greatest living national hero. Yes we can!

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Don't Hold Your Breath!
Posted by: shill on Jan 19, 2009 4:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Obama will let all of these abuses go just as Mr. Clinton did. And, yes, it will come back to bite him and the rest of us in the ass. Why? Because once these kind of investigations get going, they tend to develop a life of their own, exposing too many Americans to the truth about how their government is being mis-managed.....by BOTH parties.

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Pelosi's concerns
Posted by: Colin Brace on Jan 19, 2009 4:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
According to the Raw Story article linked above, Pelosi seems more concerned with the "politicizing" of the Justice Dept. As egregious as that may have been, surely the war crimes committed Bush & co are more important?

But of course Pelosi won't go there. For the last eight years, Pelosi, Reid, et al have served as enablers for these crimes. They are up to their ears in blood as well.

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“The true administration of justice is the firmest pillar of good government.”
Posted by: jstuv on Jan 19, 2009 4:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Should these crimes of high treason be overlooked, then these crimes of high treason will be repeated in future administrations. The Allies conducted the Nürenberg Trials (in 1945 to 1949) for several reasons: A) To make aware that these crimes were actually committed, B) To examine HOW these crimes were able to be committed, C) Who committed these crimes and D) To punish the criminals. Should the guilty not be punished, then their Criminal Acts would be absolved and could easily be repeated. There would not be any justice. “The true administration of justice is the firmest pillar of good government.”

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I don't believe in "trust me's", do you?
Posted by: warrior woman on Jan 19, 2009 4:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THis isn't the first time in history that investigations have been sidelined. Let's put it this way, if a police department tells the family of a murder victim, we're not going to prosecute, we need to move forward, what would happen? This is no different. This administration has committed murder (Iraq & Katrina for example), instituted unfounded wars, and a long, long list of other offenses. To turn their heads is to deny justice. We have to keep the pressure on.

In addition, the economic failures deserve investigation and people who instrumented this debacle should also go to jail. Every time that we look for a bailout, we should insist on investigation. They go hand in hand because if we don't, it's going to happen again. I don't believe in "trust me's", do you?

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What about 9-11, WMD Lies, Financial 9-11
Posted by: 911FalseFlag on Jan 19, 2009 4:51 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mark my words. President Obama will follow in the footsteps of his predecessors by not holding his predecessor, George W. Bush and members of his administration, liable for violating the United States Constitution and criminally responsible for treason, 9/11, financial fraud, mass murder and war crimes.
Along the same lines as his predecessors, President Obama will deal with the current financial crisis by pointing his finger at everyone except the real culprit, the Federal Reserve Bank, the U. S. executive and legislative branches and their partners in crime, the Wall Street financial institutions.
The Federal Reserve Bank is a cartel of private banks with only one motive-profit. Presidents like Abraham Lincoln, Andrew Jackson and Woodrow Wilson all knew about the all pervasive control that a private central bank has when it is permitted to print the money for the government and then lend it back to the government at interest. The end result of this scheme is that US government is in debt to the Federal Reserve Bank and taxes our income in order to pay this debt. As a result, we all live our lives in debt. Being in debt is a form of slavery.
John F. Kennedy passed an Executive Order six months before his assassination. This Executive Order would allow the federal government to print money based on a silver standard. This order was the beginning of the end of the Federal Reserve Bank.
Just like Obama who will not investigate Bush and/or Cheney for all of the felonies, war crimes, financial fraud, treason including the planning and orchestration of 9/11. He will just chalk it up to "moving on for the good of the country".

The good of the country requires the investigation and prosecution of all of these criminals starting with George H.W. Bush and moving forward.

Read rest of article. Link on 911insidejob.net home page

Go to www.911insidejob.net for many articles and videos on these topics and many others.

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Cutting his own throat?
Posted by: folkie on Jan 19, 2009 5:09 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can anyone realistically expect Obama to hold anyone accountable for war crimes while he is continuing those war crimes?

To hold anyone accountable for fiscal mismanagement like the bailouts for the banksters which he pushed through?

To hold anyone accountable for unconstitutional policies that he, as a Senator, voted for?

What kind of madness is this? You expect a war criminal who is committed to the same agenda as his predecessor, to hold his predecessor accountable?

We are celebrating an inauguration. In celebration of this change and hope, U.S. troops will kill more innocent people in Afghanistan. We are celebrating genocide. We voted to continue genocide. What Israel did in Gaza was a Sunday school picnic compared to what we have done and are continuing to do in Iraq and Afghanistan to people who never attacked us and never posed a threat to us.

Since Obama and McCain had virtually identical voting records, the election, at least among progressives, boiled down to, "Yes, Obama is committed to continuing the Bush/Cheney crimes against humanity, but Sarah Palin shoots wolves." We may be committed to killing a few more million innocent people, but we've saved some wolves. Hooray! There is hope! Not for people, not for America, not for peace, but for wolves. Hey, sometimes I prefer wolves to people also, but only because wolves aren't as vicious.

Even if Obama and Biden scrupulously avoid going wolf-hunting with McCain and Palin, nobody in the White House or Congress is going to deny the banksters or the military-industrial complex anything they ask for.

There are two prisoners being tortured. One is gagged and the other is not. The one who is gagged can only moan. The one who is not gagged is free to scream and beg for mercy, but this irritates the torturers, who are just doing their job, so they respond by increasing the torture.

Obama encourages public input. When 90% of that input opposed the bailout, he took the lead in pushing it through. He allows it, he even encourages it, and he does not gag us, but our input apparently irritates him because he does the opposite of whatever we say.

Well, so did Bush and Cheney, they just didn't encourage us to irritate them.

Until we have a democracy where we the people can hold our elected officials accountable, they will not be held accountable. Why should they hold themselves accountable? Why would they cut their own throats? We delegated to them our power when we voted, and they will do with it as their big donors command.

The prisoner without the gag has freedom of speech and the prisoner who is gagged does not. But anyone who thinks that either of them are free, is delusional.

Well-spoken, smiling genocide is just as lethal as bumbling, grimacing genocide. And it is still off the table because it would cast a pall on the festivities. It will remain off the table because there are still more trillions in war profits to be made.

We are different from the Germans of WWII, because there is not a single one of us who can pretend that we didn't know. Some of us support genocide and some of us oppose it, but all of us know about it. It is not the ones who command or commit genocide who should be held accountable, but those of us who vote to allow them to do it. Without our consent, they would have no legitimate authority to carry out genocide at all.

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» RE: Cutting his own throat? Posted by: mwildfire
Is He Listening?
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Jan 19, 2009 5:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One of the great thing about Obama is that he listens to people. I've heard this many times and even repeated it myself. But on this issue is he listening? If so, who is he listening to?

It seems pretty hard to find anyone who wants to forgive and forget unless you talk to Washington insiders (like Obama now is). There are a few die-hard Republicans who believe everything they hear on FOX and little else.

On OpEdNews there is a poll that says something about this. It is not a scientific poll and no doubt it is biased, but anyone can register there and vote. Of the 183 who have voted as of this time, none have voted for forgetting all about it and only one has voted for taking punishment off the table.

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» RE: Is He Listening? Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Parden the b******s
Posted by: 60sretread on Jan 19, 2009 6:23 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't think the country needs trials. That would tear the country apart. What we need is for the new government to clean up the messes and get the country moving again. Pardon Bush, Chaney, Rumsfeld, Gonzalez, Lewinsky and the whole sorry bunch. Also pardon the people at the bottom in the Gitmo and Abu Grab who thought they were doing what they were ordered to do

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» RE: Sure, Parden everybody Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» Great idea Posted by: truthlover
» RE: Parden the b******s Posted by: mwildfire
» RE: Parden the b******s Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Parden the b******s Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Parden the b******s Posted by: gandolfshep
Close down the courts--since applying law is such a bother
Posted by: solitarysherlockian on Jan 19, 2009 6:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The concept of NOT going to court to try anyone for a crime is beyond ludicrous. Tell that to Bernie Madoff's victims. Or the latest victim of any crime--including murder. The reason the USA is said to be a land of the rule of law--is the law.

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MAYBE WE THE PEOPLE SHOULD DEMAND JUSTICE
Posted by: shd1230 on Jan 19, 2009 7:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's we who have been snookered, lied to, deceived, and BS's for the past 8 years. It's we, the people who should be demanding that someone be held accountable. But there is time; first the new administration has to address the ruined economy and financial woes that these people have wrought. Democrats should take the blame for not speaking out continually and loudly about the abuses that were going on. With false patriotism and abject fear the Bushies got their way about everything EXCEPT that they planned the debacle to take place AFTER the election, not before.

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NOBODY HAS TO LIKE IT
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jan 19, 2009 7:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We don't need permission to prosecute anyone. Walking on eggs around these people is a choice. The worry is 'who else is involved' and what will come out of in investigaton. Who else is complicit? It's about the fallout from asking questions and getting answers. It's almost a huge whistle blower event. People run for cover. If we really want to examine the soon to be former administration, there will be surprises. That's the real fear. Throwing Bush & Cheney in the slammer is easy. The last eight years is riddled with corruption that could only exist with the cooperatio of alot of people. Either a large net is cast or none at all. Our obligation is not to the politicians, it's to the American public. Waiting for the go-ahead from the politicians is just plain silly. Thanks, ANNA

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The Trial of George W. Bush
Posted by: goodsensecynic on Jan 19, 2009 8:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A little more than forty years ago, Bertrand Russell and Jean-Paul Sartre staged their International War Crimes Tribunal to investigate US intervention in Vietnam following the defeat of the French in 1954.

In 2001, Christopher Hitchens published his brief against Henry Kissinger for war crimes in South-East Asia three decades earlier. (Mr. Hitchens, of course, has lamentably switched sides with respect to Iraq.)

Much as it would do my spirits good to see Mr. Bush and his associates face even a symbolic test of their criminal activities against the American people and the people of Iraq, I hold little hope that anything so dramatic will take place.

As for any formal litigious procedure being undertaken under the authority of the US government and with the full force of law, I am deeply sceptical.

The American people, besotted as they are with their illusion of exceptionalism, are happy enough to "disapprove" of Mr. Bush's conduct, but would generally be loath to put their anguish on display before the world, especially in an era of allegedly post-partisan politics.

True, people who express their views at Alternet and assorted other "progressive" sites may give vent to their anger, and recommend anything from a sort of "Truth and Reconciliation Commission" to a full-scale criminal indictment and trial; however, the vast majority of the American people are either too much in denial about American foreign policy or too much in thrall to Mr. Obama's zeal for "looking to the future" to countenance such a catharsis.

Perhaps one day (decade? century?) the USA will fully join the international community and recognize the authority of the international courts and institutions that could deal equitably and expeditiously with the malfeasance of American and other leaders in a formal judicial or quasi-judicial setting. Such an event, however, is unlikely to occur soon.

Meanwhile, it is not the time to forgive and it is not the time to forget, and it is certainly not the time to continue or to repeat.

On this Martin Luther King Day, it is also time to recall that he spoke out not only against racial discrimination, but also about war and about social class. As far as the American plutocracy was concerned, the first was annoying, the second was exasperating, and the third was intolerable. It is only speculation on my part, but it is important to imagine a hierarchy of protest, and that it was his last complaint that got him shot.

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» not guilty Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» RE: not guilty Posted by: Quannah
Bush, Cheney and their gang of -----
Posted by: symcokid on Jan 19, 2009 8:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
thugs most definitely have to be tried for War Crimes and no pardons for these animals! Only then will this USofA begin to regain a semblance of respect on the world front again.

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Right is right and wrong is wrong
Posted by: Schroeder on Jan 19, 2009 8:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There doesn't seem to be any question as to whether or not there is enough information available to begin investigations and see where they go. And it won't be nearly as disruptive to the country as the investigation leading up to Bill Clinton's impeachment. Keep in mind, the right wing media continued to throw fuel on the fire of that situation and kept it alive far longer than they should have. Ken Starr was obsessed with being able to destroy Clinton.

Media is still right wing and will give the Bush regime every break they can give them. Let's face it, had Bill Clinton been the one who did what George did, he would have been dragged out of the White House.

It's my guess that all of the appointments that George has made in the recent days is nothing short of lining up people who will be a part of the bringing down of the Obama administration. I simply don't understand how Obama can trust George. Why does he think this president is telling him the truth about anything? Hopefully he will verify every piece of information that he's received from George. Why would George start telling the truth now?

It's important to let bygones be bygones if the issues are petty. Death and destruction to a country who did nothing to us and the lives of our own military, our reputation abroad, are not petty issues. Nor is the destruction of our Constitution, and the loss of our individual rights and freedoms.

It would be nothing short of a horrible disgrace if nothing is done about it. If the sins of democrats are discovered along the way, so be it. Throw them all out of Washington! Let's get on with change. Let the investigations begin and let's clean up Washington!

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» Hotel vs Blare House! Posted by: cokids
billybookworm
Posted by: billybookworm on Jan 19, 2009 8:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wholesale robbery. I wanted to post a picture of a black rucksack. The picture was taken in Al Anbar province. The bag and dozens of others are filled with money, that is how contractors are paid now. Previously KBR operatives reported status of projects and payments were made accordingly. Many projects were fully paid out as "complete". Upon inspection by military civil affairs officers [which began in January 2007] many were anything but complete. KBR and its contractors will never be asked to pay back the money.

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Legacy of Complacency, Laziness & Anonymity?
Posted by: Brb007 on Jan 19, 2009 8:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I posted this under another Bush article. I believe it bears repeating.

Last week, I posted a response to a similar article on the legacy of Bush, et al. I was basically saying that if we don't learn from this and hold accountable the crimes that have been perpetrated, we are doomed to repeat them. Someone replied, to paraphrase, that they are tired of the "gloom and doom" conversations and ready to move forward. My immediate thought was of an ostrich burying it's head in the sand and missing everything above the surface with a false sense of anonymity and security.

A false, protective anonymity ... that is how I see the hoards of people who are content to let these crimes be forgotten and just "move ahead" with a new administration and new ideology, with hopes that these atrocities will never again occur. Perhaps it is just mere laziness that some wish to "move forward" and not dwell on the past. Do people really believe that by trying to forget, excuse, apologize and ignore all that has been perpetrated on the American people and others, that it will somehow make it all OK and keep us safe from another rogue administration or group repeating the same? One thing that is well known about criminals ... once they find an MO that works, they repeat it and use it as a training tool, because they have used it so successfully in the past.

I guess the biggest question in my mind is ... do we want our country to be seen as a nation who protects and encourages criminal behavior from its highest leaders, or do we want to regain our strength, integrity, honor and standing as a strong, secure, safe and fair nation who led the world by example?

We do have a choice. Don't allow anyone to tell you that we don't. Forgetting and moving forward cannot happen simultaneously. To move forward we must correct the wrongs. We cannot forget and allow complacency to permit these atrocities to go unpunished! We must recognize them and admit them and assure that they can never again be repeated.

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» Let's move forward Posted by: truthlover
Maybe it's because
Posted by: faceinthecrowd on Jan 19, 2009 8:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the Democrats are just as guilty as GW Bush.

Remember...the President has executive authority to enforce laws/policy. Only the Congress can pass laws and make policy.

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» RE: Maybe it's because Posted by: Brb007
» RE: Maybe it's because Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Maybe it's because Posted by: Brb007
Take a few hints from US History
Posted by: Zimbly on Jan 19, 2009 8:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes justice is needed, yes if the past abuses are not rectified in some manner it will give the green light to future administrations.
The reality is , it ain't gonna happin.

If History shows us a few examples of Presidents who step "outside"their acceptable mandate.

1) JFK is one good example of a President who went on the assumptions that people here are making, we the people and I have the power.

When JFK started to tackle the "real" deep systemic issues and those who were in power knew he was not BS'ing. They...."they"...decided to show Kennedy and the whole world..WHO had the real power.........bang.
In the Oliver Stone movie, there is another subtle "sideshow" , when Nixon after getting elected, is invited to some "ranch-house in Texas, he gets indignant about the way he is being "shuttled around" and makes open verbal threats and talks about the"power he has from the people that voted him in". A tall man with a whisky glass comes sauntering over and with a few choice words says" Nixon...you little puke rat, you listen to me...don't go getting any ideas like the Kennedy bros did, because when push comes to shove, we'll shove you 6 ft under son and you'll come to know WHO WE ARE and who has the REAL POWER.
Flash Forward to Sept 11th, 2001, Booker Elementary school, we see a "President" who is doing "exactly" what was scripted to him.
I bet the phone call he got from Cheney at around 8:34 AM when something like this " George, this is Eagle one, and you know the drill, sit down, read the book and do your part..if not...... well need I say what will happen......on that day Secret Security protocol was breached, if the Presisdent had been "in real danger"...he would have been whisked off faster than you can say torture....but here is the rub....they didn't....why do you suppose they didn't.....1) incompetence....don't think so.......they wanted him to squirm in that chair for a whole 8 minutes.. his visit to the scholl had been anounced days before...if these so called terrorists had any worth..don't you think that school was a target....a school full of kids?..There is more to the picture and to what happened that day that meets the eye.....
I believe that "DAY" was chosen and once again a "demonstration of our power"..soon after death threats to all Democratic members of Congress and the Anthrax letters...."military grade anthrax" from a very specific place....coincidence?..lone nut case?...don't think so.

People are giving Obama powers he simply does not have.
The depth and pervasiveness of the corruption is mind boggling...just where do you start...what part of this very dangerous apparatus do you take apart?

Obama gave a few "hints" in Chicago that night....." to lead, with positive influence"..and that real change will "come from you".....he was dropping all kinds of hints about the limitations of his position.


This is really what its all about, limits...limitation.
Yes wouldn't it be sweet to see these crooks and criminals behind bars and have a "Nuremberg like process".....yeah sure.

If Obama starts having Kennedy-esque delusions about how much "power he has"....those who have the REAL power..will show us what that all means.
To know your history is to know the"meaning of the Kennedy assassination" A democratically elected President was murdered because he was confronting the real "demons", Kennedy's mistake was that he though he was invulnerable and all powerful..."They " quickly corrected that delusion...didn't they?

If Obama is the person I think he is, then he is a President who is deeply aware and awake to History, Obama is no Kennedy, I believe he clearly knows his limitations and his function in this whole mess.

Lets hope he lives long enough "to inspire change"

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Forgiving Bush his wrongs
Posted by: pfm on Jan 19, 2009 9:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I feel the need to note I answer this from two diverse perspectives, one from heart, the other from my mind. Beginning with my heart, I find no useful long term purpose is served pursuing a course with a multitude of individuals directing their attention to seeking vengeance against the Bush/Cheney administration, while there are ominous issues which need to be addressed, corrected and solved. I do not profess to be a religious individual … there is a statement in one book as I recall stating … judge not lest ye be judged and let he who is without fault throw the first stone … In my own life thus far, I have indeed created fault not only for myself but for others, thus aptly disqualifying me from judging or tossing any stones. Perhaps your life was lead differently permitting you to participate…?

On the other hand in my head and mind, I need to own, I want President Obama to investigate all the actions of the Bush/Cheney administration leaving NO stone unturned and with vigilance pursue every illegal action they permitted and/or had others carry out in their stead.

In the moment I can be equally strident as I vacillate between these two polar positions. I suspect whatever course of action President Obama chooses to take I can in any given moment choose to find fault if I am so inclined.

It strikes me based on the issues we have placed before President Obama requesting that he find a path which honorably resolves them; from education, health, our economy, our national security, expending the effort required to “bring to justice” all those accountable and responsible in the Bush/Cheney administration will require such an enormous expenditure of time, money and energy so as to leave little or no time to attend to those issues of greater long benefit to America and the all of mankind.

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Nuremberg
Posted by: Outspokengrandmother on Jan 19, 2009 10:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a big supporter of Nuremberg. It taught the Germans what had been done in their name - not the broad scope of it - the ditsy, disgusting and deplorable details. Without Nuremberg many of the Nazi crimes might have been shrugged of as "I was just obeying orders." The American people need to know EXACTLY what the secretive Bush Administration did and the Administration needs to be punished for doing it so that the next generation of neocons (and there will be a next generation just as there has been a next generation of bankers to cause a new depression)will have been warned that these crimes against the Constitution are punishable by law. And, ultimately we are a nation of laws. Or at least we say we are.

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» RE: Nuremberg Posted by: VZEQICVA
High crimes and misdemeanors
Posted by: Dana L. Stern on Jan 19, 2009 10:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I like many Americans are expecting justice to be done. Justice has been pushed aside for too long. It's time for an accounting! The Bush administration needs to be investigated and indicted! If Obama fails to do this his popularity will take a huge hit. I personally have urged Americans to be patient and wait for Obama to take office.

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Let us Wait
Posted by: Charlow on Jan 19, 2009 10:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with what I'm hearing about uncovering and taking appropriate action against those who committed criminal acts under this soon to be ended administration. Let's wait on all this, however, until we see who Bush pardons. We may not have recourse under our own laws.

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» RE: Let us Wait Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Let us Wait Posted by: Crazy H
The alternate solution, Other Countries Investigate and Prosecute
Posted by: charlesuchu on Jan 19, 2009 11:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The alternate solution here, in the absence of the US government protecting our democracy by prosecuting these criminals is for other countries to do it.

If we can't make Washington DC uncomfortable for them, then what better next step than to make elsewhere in the world uncomfortable for them and the potential for arrest on war crimes, theft, etc.

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Bushies getting away with murder - and treason?
Posted by: notmom on Jan 19, 2009 12:29 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then why bother with local and state police, or the FBI, or any other law enforcement? Crime is crime, and criminals are criminals. Unless, by conservative/Republican fiat, the criminal is wealthy, well-connected, and "right-thinking." So, is this still an America governed "of the people, by the people, and for the people," or is it an elitist oligarchy-in-waiting, with surveillance cameras on every street corner and every freeway interchange? Illegal wiretaps, government agencies reading our email, private citizens "informing" on "suspicious activities and situations," and the totally nonsensical rigmarole associated with air travel (to make us safe, of course - but being required to remove my shoes, jewelry and hairclips certainly does NOT make me feel safe; it makes me feel angry) are conditions that, tragically, will continue UNLESS the Obama administration pursues criminal action against the perpetrators of these invasions of privacy. Privacy may be the unstated Constitutional right, but the Supreme Court has recognized it (that would be the Republican-controlled Supreme Court, at that!) as such, and Mr. Obama needs to live up to his campaign promises or they will descend into the oblivion of campaign rhetoric, and thus prove him more politician than statesman.

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IF IT ISN'T WRITTEN INTO THE "OFFICIAL" U.S. HISTORY...
Posted by: AlwaysAskWhy on Jan 19, 2009 1:52 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

Impeachment and prosecution of the Bush mis-administration not only holds the perpetrators of murder of OVER ONE MILLION MURDERED IRAQIS (among other crimes), but writes their crimes into the "official" history of the U.S.

IF IT ISN'T WRITTEN, IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!


The myriad of books written documenting the crimes of the Republicans and the Bush administration (see below)will all be relegated to mere hypotheses, conjecture, analysis...but NOT FACT and NOT U.S. HISTORY, if these sociopaths are not brought to JUSTICE in front of the whole world. America is already the laughing stock of the world (the democracy and greatest nation on earth myth), but for congress to REFUSE to bring these criminals to justice is the biggest "F-YOU" to the American People, to Justice, to the Rule of Law, to our very DEMOCRACY... and TO THE WORLD.

PARTIAL READING LIST FOR CONGRESS:

* Rep. John Conyers' "The Constitution in Crisis",
* "The Torture Papers - The Road to Abu Ghraib",
* "Articles of Impeachment Against George W. Bush" by the Center for Constitutional Rights
* "U.S. v. Bush" by Elizabeth de la Vega
* "The Impeachment of George W. Bush" by Elizabeth Holtzman with Cynthia L. Cooper,
* "Impeach the President - The Case Against Bush and Cheney" by Dennis Loo and Peter Phillips
* "The Assault on Reason" by Al Gore

and many, many other books!

AND THEN THERE ARE A MYRIAD OF BOOKS EXPOSING THE BUSH AND GOVERNMENT LIES AROUND 9/11, BEGINNING WITH "The New Pearl Harbor" by David Ray Griffin... AMONG MANY OTHERS.

PROSECUTION SHOULD BE THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION'S FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS TO CLEAN UP GOVERNMENT.

PROSECUTION SAYS, "WE'RE SORRY" TO THE WHOLE WORLD... MAYBE THE ONLY APOLOGY THE WORLD WILL ACCEPT FROM AN INDIFFERENT, SELF-ABSORBED, GREEDY AMERICAN POPULATION.

PROSECUTION IS CENTER TO OUR VERY SECURITY.

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Patience my children
Posted by: sre on Jan 19, 2009 2:55 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Barack will save us from ourselves. Whatever He wants is just and proper. He knows what's best for us. We elected Him for change and to rescue us from W. Oh I almost forgot we elected W, too, twice.

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» RE: Patience my children Posted by: VZEQICVA
Sorry, Mr Krugman, BUT I
Posted by: madmax427 on Jan 19, 2009 3:48 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
for one DEMAND Prosecutions! They are NEEDED, not to mention very much DESERVED!

Also, in one of President Elect Obama's speeches, He stated "We must All Sacrafice to return America back to health"!

I paraphrased that somewhat, But I have been thinking about it for the last week and I am ENRAGED over it! I PERSONALLY have had My Career destroyed, My Health affected while 'serving' My Country, I watched My Father turned into an incomplete quadrapelegic because Union Pacific Railroad wanted to save money by replacing Crossing with SUBStandard replacements and when challenged, the Federal Railroad Adminstration COVERED UP for Them. And the Veterans Adminstration, after over 2.5 YEARS, STILL refues to send Me the remainder of My Fathers' Medical Records because They KNOW I believe His "Death" was Their fault, if not out right murder! My State put a Maximum Limit for His "Wrongful Death" @ $341,250.00 REGARDLESS of the circumstances! When I TRIED to fight the assininity it, I watched My Computer get hacked, My Website Attacked, My Home foreclosed upon and even My NON Service Connected Disability has been threatened to be taken away because I did not report getting the remainder of His retirement as INCOME!

Now, after reading the above, the QUESTION I have for You & Obama is simply this: Just HOW MUCH am I REQUIRED to SACRIFICE?! Haven't I SACRIFICED ENOUGH YET?!

High minded Ideals are fine and maybe even appropriate considering Our over all situation right now, BUT We MUST keep in mind there are REAL People suffering REAL Problems directly related to the actions of the Bush Adminstration and I, for one, am NOT going to just "Let" these Crooks get off the hook with Bullshit statements like "We must look Forward, Not Backwards"! The "Rule of Law" applies to EVERYONE or NO ONE; there ain't no middle ground! So what's it going to be?!

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» RE: Sorry, Mr Krugman, BUT I Posted by: VZEQICVA
The first
Posted by: wormfarmer on Jan 19, 2009 4:02 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
order of business is to recognize and DEFEND the constitution, it would be a true kick in the nuts not to, and let the imbecile and his cronies off the hook. We as a nation cannot overlook what has been done to this country, and constitution, the last eight years must be atoned for. I could go on, I agree with other comments,let's hold them accountable!

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The World Court
Posted by: gradioc on Jan 19, 2009 4:17 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One poster above (charlesuchu) has the right idea. Obama can just wait. I fully expect that Germany and/or Italy will instigate action in The World Court for blatant kidnappings of their citizens (Germany) or of foriegn nationals on their soil (Italy). These "extraordinary renditions" are the most egregious and easily provable of the Bushies' many transgressions of international law. Many of the Gitmo detainees also have an outstanding cause of legal action. I just loved Michael Chertoff's article in the last Foreign Affairs railing about respect for sovereignty and domestic legal systems when his bosses have clearly demonstrated their utter contempt for our allies' legal systems and the entire structure of international law by "disappearing" people, some of them totally innocent and grabbed by mistake, all over the globe. I hope the people responsible will live the rest of their lives in fear of facing justice in The Hague. I'd like to see Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Tennant, Wolfewitz, Perle, et al extradited to face the charges, but I doubt that will ever happen. The spectacle of a US President in the dock where Milosovich stood is not something the US is likely to allow.

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Only if you open the jails and let everyone out.
Posted by: sicntired on Jan 19, 2009 11:33 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These people committed mass murder and lied America into a war that their friends profited on.No one in today's prisons did anything half as wrong as the crimes of the bush administration.

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» GET A LIFE! Posted by: ds1st
» RE: GET A LIFE! Posted by: Quannah
Tell Congress to Investigate Bush
Posted by: greenferret on Jan 21, 2009 11:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tell Congress to support HR 104 and investigate wrongdoing by the Bush administration. If we let Bush escape accountability, then we invite similar abuses of power by future administrations. GreenChange.org makes it easy to tell your representatives in Congress to support an investigation; just go to http://tinyurl.com/85zrq4

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Gordon's comments
Posted by: baldhawk on Jan 22, 2009 6:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't think anyone needs credentials to tell what they see, especially if what is said is self evident, and requires no more than common sense and observation.

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But how? How do we accomplish this?
Posted by: Brb007 on Jan 24, 2009 3:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We absolutely need to investigate, indentify and punish those responsible for the crimes that have occurred. The question is ... can we hold a large number of our politicians and citizens legally responsible for conspiracy and for being complicit? What are the boundaries, the protocol that will be used to decide who willingly aided these crimes? How can we determine those who did so based on ignorance and complacency and those who did so with clear, informed intent?

Many Government employees, elected officials, law enforcement agencies, legislative, executive and judicial branches all participated or enabled in some way or another. Even the voting citizens of the US did, when they pushed the lever for this criminal administration. How does a nation take on a task like this and even more pressing, how do we pay for it?

I agree that there must be accountability, but I simply cannot imagine how we could accomplish a task like this, which seems nearly insurmountable.

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hgovernick
Posted by: hgovernick on Jan 25, 2009 3:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Regarding President Obama's quote: "I don't believe that anybody is above the law," ... "we need to look forward as opposed to looking backwards."

I've heard those words too many time before. For me they defy logic. "Forgiving and forgetting" is not looking forward... it's standing still.

Holding people accountable for past crimes is looking forward... forward to a society governed by those who know they will be held accountable if they have unethical or criminal intentions while serving the public, and may help restore some respect for the Constitution.

No more "get out of jail free" cards for political expediency.

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