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Rights and Liberties

Obama Has to Hold Bush Accountable for the Laws He Broke

By Elizabeth Holtzman, The Nation. Posted January 16, 2009.


Obama cannot let former Bush administration officials get away with breaking the law without violating his own oath of office.
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President Obama, on his first day in office, can make a number of changes that will mark a clean break with the Bush presidency. He can, and should, issue an executive order revoking any prior order that permits detainee mistreatment by any government agency. He should begin the process of closing Guantánamo, and he should submit to Congress a bill to end the use of military commissions, at least as presently constituted. Over the coming months he can pursue other reforms to restore respect for the Constitution, such as revising the Patriot Act, abolishing secret prisons and "extraordinary rendition," and ending practices, like signing statements, that seek to undo laws.

While these steps are all crucial, however, it is not enough merely to cease the abuses of power and apparent criminality that marked the highest levels of George W. Bush's administration. We cannot simply shrug off the constitutional and criminal misbehavior of the administration, treat it as an aberration and hope it won't happen again. The misbehavior was not an aberration -- aspects of it, particularly the idea that the president is above the law, were present in Watergate and in the Iran/Contra scandal. To fully restore the rule of law and prevent any repetition of Bush's misconduct, the abuses of his administration must be directly confronted. As Indiana University law professor Dawn Johnsen -- recently tapped by Obama to head his Office of Legal Counsel--wrote in Slate last March, "We must avoid any temptation simply to move on. We must instead be honest with ourselves and the world as we condemn our nation's past transgressions and reject Bush's corruption of our American ideals."

What we need to do is conceptually simple. We need to launch investigations to get at the central unanswered questions of Bush's abuse of power, commence criminal proceedings and undertake institutional, statutory and constitutional reforms. Perhaps all these things don't need to be done at once, but over time--not too much time--they must take place. Otherwise, we establish a doctrine of presidential impunity, which has no place in a country that cherishes the rule of law or considers itself a democracy. Bush's claim that the president enjoys virtually unlimited power as commander in chief at a time of war--which Vice President Dick Cheney defiantly reasserted just last month--brought us perilously close to military dictatorship.

As the former district attorney in Brooklyn, New York, I know the price society pays for a doctrine of impunity. Failure to prosecute trivializes and encourages the crimes. The same holds true of political abuses--failure to hold violators accountable condones the abuse and entrenches its acceptability, creating a climate in which it is likely to be repeated. The doctrine of impunity suggests, too, that there is a dual system of justice--one for the powerful and one for ordinary Americans. Because the concept of equal justice under the law is the foundation of democracy, impunity for high-level officials who abuse power and commit crimes erodes our democracy.

An impeachment proceeding against President Bush would have been the proper forum to expose the full scope of his abuses and to impose punishment. That obviously didn't happen, but investigations and prosecutions can still provide the vast civics lesson that an impeachment process would have given our nation.

There is another important reason for not "moving on." On January 20, Barack Obama will take an oath of office to uphold the Constitution, which requires the president to "take care that the laws be faithfully executed." Much as President Obama might like to avoid controversy arising from investigations and prosecutions of high-level Bush administration officials, he cannot let them get away with breaking the law without violating his oath. His obligation to pursue justice in these cases is all the more serious given his acknowledgment that waterboarding is torture--which is a federal crime--and the vice president's recent admission of his involvement in and approval of "enhanced" interrogation techniques.

Moreover, under the Geneva Conventions and the Convention Against Torture, our government is obliged to bring to justice those who have violated the conventions. Although Bush smugly ignored his constitutional duty to enforce treaty obligations and laws that punish detainee mistreatment, Obama cannot follow the same lawless path.

Investigations

The Iraq War, the torture and mistreatment of detainees, and the wiretapping and US Attorney scandals of the Bush administration merit new and full investigations that could be carried out singly or together and could be conducted by Congress or an outside commission.


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See more stories tagged with: bush, accountability, oath of office

Elizabeth Holtzman, a former US Representative from New York, is the co-author of The Impeachment of George W. Bush (Nation Books).

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“The true administration of justice is the firmest pillar of good government.”
Posted by: jstuv on Jan 17, 2009 2:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Absolutely correct! Should these crimes of high treason be overlooked, they will be repeated in future administrations. The Allies conducted the Nürenberg Trials for several reasons. To make aware that these crimes were actually committed, to examine how these crimes were able to be committed, who committed them and to punish the wrongdoers. Should the guilty not be punished, then their crimes would be absolved and could easily be repeated. There would not be any justice. “The true administration of justice is the firmest pillar of good government.”

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» tail chasing Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» RE: tail chasing Posted by: rickiey
difficult indictments
Posted by: Zuma on Jan 17, 2009 2:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
accomplices...

whole swaths of america.
MSM, the Corporata-cracy, the jingo-ists, the assault on reason, the military culture itself (like erik prince and friends) as well as the M/I complex. the fundies. all those whom bush outed as partners in idiocy, psychopathology ands sheer simple evil. and so on.

to indict bush may well be akin to indicting football and beer to many.

as it is, to complain about male US soldiers raping female US soldiers is nigh onto treason.

truth is, bush cannot be indicted any more than cheney or rumsfeld -they are far more protected than we know. it's only a question of how far do we want to reveal the consequences of indicting a dangerous and most powerful part of america.

northcom is ready, the superprisons are ready. infragard is ready. the technology is ready. the lists are ready.

we are not a nation of law and order, but pure rapaciousness, and without the underlying law and order, no indictment has any meaning -particularly of half that nation itself.

of course this is why it "must" be done -or rather attempted. failing to do so is complicity.
and
Conformity Supports What Passivity Enables

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» Exactly right, Zuma Posted by: PrinceRobert
Thank You Ms Holtzman!
Posted by: sslyon on Jan 17, 2009 3:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you Ms Holtzman and The Nation for presenting a crisp and comprehensive review of the case for investigation and prosecution of criminality in our government. You have restored my hope that this country might be saved from the likes of the current Bush administration, and my faith that the concepts of Equal Justice and Equal Protection apply to EVERY American!

I'm a 70+ yr old EX Republican and am sick at heart about what's happened, and what is threatening to become a norm with regard to Constitutional Accountability. Only through diligent adherence to that requirement and the rules of law and justice will American democracy survive to serve coming generations, both here and abroad.

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» RE: Thank You Ms Holtzman! Posted by: sailor50
Why would he???
Posted by: HANGTRAITORS on Jan 17, 2009 4:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The republicans just looted the bank and Obama/ the democrats will drive the getaway car. This is a one party dictatorship run by the bankers. The ease and speed in which the bankers got that bailout money only strengthens my position. Obama intends to use all the "new" dictatorial powers that bush and the supine congress granted themselves

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Let go of it!
Posted by: AJR Journal on Jan 17, 2009 4:48 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bush administration is history and it is time to move on. We have enough opportunities and problems for the Obama team to deal with, without re-hashing what ever happened 2001-2009 in the White House. Dwelling on the past is in no way constructive. Let's get going on what needs to be done!

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» RE: Let go of it! Posted by: charlief
» RE: Let go of it! Posted by: signjay
» RE: Let go of it! Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Let go of it! Posted by: pacto
» Moron Posted by: EinMD
» Valerie Plame's outing was TREASON Posted by: hurricane hugo
» RE: Let go of it! Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Let go of it! Posted by: 2thepoint
We're screwed if we don't prosecute.
Posted by: Perry Logan on Jan 17, 2009 5:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Earth calling Democrats. It's very simple:

If we don't prosecute, they will steal their way into the White House again.

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» Democrats to earth....... Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Democrats to earth....... Posted by: 2thepoint
how about this...
Posted by: ellie on Jan 17, 2009 5:10 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
we take what we have learned, such as all of the events of the past 8 years and use them as bell-weather warnings in the future... we all know now how bad things can get quickly with a runaway corrupt administration... it's up to us to make sure history doesn't repeat itself... with any means possible... and I DO mean any means...

field trip to the national archives for a read of the constitution and bill of rights anyone as a refresher course???

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Obama has no right to hold Bush accountable for anything, as long as he ignores 9/11 Truth
Posted by: pfgetty on Jan 17, 2009 5:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How can Obama hold Bush accountable for any crimes? As long as the official story of 9/11 is unquestioned by Obama, and the media, then Bush did the things he did because of the reaction to that horrible day of 9/11, when everything changed, and things that used to be illegal had to change and Bush had to protect us from terror in any way he could. A great leader WILL break some rules when the reality of the world changes, and that is what he did. He should be worshipped, not villainized.
But that is only if the official story of 9/11 is true, which it isn't. In fact, Bush/Cheyney are two of the most evil people ever to be in a position of world power. They conspired to bring us 9/11, used that fear to bring us Iraq and Afghanistan, and wiretapping, and torture, and the breakdown in our financial system.

All of this would be obvious to most Americans, but is NOT, because the media, including the alternative media, has decided that even mentioning 9/11 truth, the real story and coverup, is forbidden. They have conspired to work together to ensure Americans do not realize the con job that was 9/11. And Alternet is part of this.

It is hard to find good information about 9/11 Truth. You have to go on relatively obscure websites, like www.911truth.org, or www.AE911truth.org, or www.prisonplanet.com, and others. Most people are skeptical of information coming from sites that are not well known. They WILL believe almost anything the mainstream media tells them. And more enlightened people will believe what Alternet tells them. But these sources have blacked out all information about the evidence and contradictions and lies about 9/11. And so, Americans still believe the fairy tale.

Whatever happens to America in the future will depend on how we deal with 9/11 and its many repercussions. If we don't do very well, history will blame the media.........Alternet included. That should be sobering for Alternet journalists, but apparently they are not concerned. Do they really not care? Or are they pressured and threatened enough that they simply cannot do the job we want them to do..........bring us truth, bravely. We don't know. They simply won't tell us.

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What Do You Think
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Jan 17, 2009 5:55 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A poll and additional commentary on this issue can be found on OpEdNews.

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Remembering Elizabeth Holtzman
Posted by: jmmartin on Jan 17, 2009 6:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I met Elizabeth Holtzman in the early 70's when I was writing a piece about a war criminal, Andrea Artucovic (a Croatian) for a West Coast monthly. I interviewed her about her efforts to have this former Nazi collaborator, responsible for as many as 750,000 death camp exterminations of Jews, gypsies, and Serbians, brought to justice. She was sharp as a tack and as aggressive as a pit bull. She knows a war criminal when she sees one. And she's right: we CANNOT allow the Bush Gang to escape unscathed. If Obama is to restore international respect for us and follow the rule of law, we MUST punish this bunch of thugs.

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TimS
Posted by: TimS on Jan 17, 2009 6:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You are absolutely right. Untill Obama investigates and opens criminal cases against the specious and small little people that gained control of our country and made a mockery of America, he cannot be taken as either a voice for change or courageous. Rumsfeld, Rove ,Bush, Cheney, Rice and the especially onerous Addington ,Wolfowitz, Perl....shit, all of them should go to prison and return their salaries as an at least symbolic act. Just for their dismembering of New Orleans that should happen, Iraq should get them all life sentences, if they are actually alive I guess.

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» RE: TimS Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Suuuuuuure, Bushco will be held accountable...
Posted by: xi_people on Jan 17, 2009 6:48 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hope that people who think (or hope) that any kind of prosecution will take place can deal with crushing disappointment well.

The bottom line is that both parties are deeply complicit in virtually all of the brazenly illegal activities that have taken place during the past 8 years.

What leg would dimocrats have to stand on if they start accusing the repugs of malfeasance? The latter would rightly laugh themselves silly, after which pointing out that the other side of the aisle was fully in agreement every step of the way.

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Bush
Posted by: beandang on Jan 17, 2009 6:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He should have Dictator Bush and his "mini me" Cheney arrested for the War Criminals they are. They should be made to ANSWER for their crimes against humanity!

RT
Online PRivacy when it COunts

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» RE: Bush Posted by: EinMD
» RE: Bush Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Bush/ Cheney /Rove
Posted by: surfreality on Jan 17, 2009 6:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
used the "war on terror" to create an imperial presidency. They called this the "unitary executive". At the same time they politizised every department in the federal government. Hence the violations of the Hatch Act ( there are felonies here too! ) and the scandals at the DOJ ( and here! ). So while amassing unlimited power for POTUS they were working to make sure no Democrat would ever again achieve the Oval Office.
Had they succeeded, democracy as we know it ( what little there is left ) would be over. We would be a one party state like China.
This was their plan and goal. Had they succeeded they would have been accountable to no one. But we dodged a bullet. The question now is, do we do something about it and safegaurd our democracy or do we keep dodging bullets in the future?
I suspect there will be accountability. It will move forward slowly and quietly so as to not raise too much of an initial uproar; but inevitably it will gain momentum and inevitably the hard questions will be asked...

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I wish Obama would read this article
Posted by: sheena2u on Jan 17, 2009 7:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The high-handed, self-serving, and deeply destructive actions that were taken by Cheney and Bush must not be ignored and brushed aside. To allow such crimes to go unexamined and unpunished is to give entirely the wrong message, and to condone and encourage more of the same.

We must follow through, in a timely manner, and make very sure that the Bush administration does not get a free pass for the wrongs they have done to America and the world.

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Just ask yourself...
Posted by: sausage on Jan 17, 2009 7:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just ask yourself:

Did Gerald Ford's pardon of Richard Nixon "heal" a country divided by Watergate?

Did Bill Clinton's failure to investigate, indict and convict any member of the Reagan and Bush I administrations, including the ex-presidents themselves, involved in Iran-Contra bring the nation together, make it easier for him to advance his agenda and govern?

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» RE: Just ask yourself... Posted by: badkitty
» RE: Just ask yourself... Posted by: 2thepoint
Letters to georgie...
Posted by: Knowmad on Jan 17, 2009 8:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Somewhat off topic, but did you notice the article in the Peek section entitled "Karl Rove Wants You to Write a Goodbye Letter to Bush (Seriously)".

Well I did, and maybe some of you should too. They have to be posted by 6:00 pm Monday, and the address is gwbfarewell@gmail.com [no attachments]. I even got a form letter thank you from Karl the Krazed.

Here's my letter:

Listen up george, this is for your own good:

You, cheney, karl, donnie and the rest of the sad gang - including poor Laura - are in dire need of intensive therapy. That's blatantly obvious from here in Canada, and pretty much everywhere else apparently.

In the meantime, I hope you are all incarcerated in a place where you can't hurt anyone anymore. I know, the usual way this is put when discussing the sociopathic or criminally insane is, "so you can't hurt yourself or anyone else anymore." But, as for hurting yourselves . . . sad to say I don't really care, and I'm an extremely caring person.

Goodbye, and with all due respect I hope every one of you get what you truly deserve.

Pathetic . . . the lot of you.

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» RE: Letters to georgie... Posted by: EinMD
» RE: The List Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: The List Posted by: Quannah
» RE: The List Posted by: Knowmad
» Could not find this site Posted by: Ellie1
» RE: Could not find this site Posted by: Knowmad
We had no choice.
Posted by: folkie on Jan 17, 2009 8:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not even the most fervent Obama or McCain supporters would be able to tell which one was their candidate from their Senate voting records alone.

Given a choice of only two candidates with a chance of winning, both committed to continuing the Bush/Cheney wars of aggression based on lies, and both committed to bailouts for the rich, I realized that the election was a sham and a farce and for the first time in my life, I didn't vote.

Most Americans are more concerned about health care, medical marijuana, immigration, gun control, reproductive rights, gay marriage, and partisan political politics than about how many millions of innocent people we are killing in Iraq and Afghanistan. Genocide, like 9/11 truth, impeachment, or prosecution, is off the table.

Obama is pledged to maintain an illegal U.S. presence in Iraq and to expand the illegal U.S. invasion of Afghanistan. He cannot investigate or prosecute war crimes that he is presiding over without leaving himself open to similar prosecution.

If you voted for genocide, the blood is on your hands. Don't ask the war criminal you knew was committed to war crimes when you voted for him, to investigate or punish war crimes. You are every bit as complicit as he is.

Democracy isn't the freedom to vote for the war criminal of your choice. Democracy is when you have a real choice between war and peace.

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» Well said. Posted by: GuitarBill
But, but--I thought Bush was "a good guy"
Posted by: 6399 on Jan 17, 2009 8:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This coming from the mouth of the man to whom an overwhelming number of you mindless buffoons and robots have entrusted the fate of this nation, and at such a critical juncture no less. What Obama does in his first 120 days will determine whether we have the time and resources to do an about turn so as to begin the arduous task of fixing this broken nation; or will we be relegated to the ash heap of history? My $$ is on the latter if his recent TARP caper is any indicator. Nice to see the outgoing and incoming president working together to bilk the nation though, isn't it? Nothing like reaching across the aisle for one last slap to the face of the American taxpayer. I'm sure Obailout's banker buddies are grinning from ear to ear.

Obama is quickly becoming the next great "Decider" and I for one am scared of the path he seems prepared to choose. But hey, Bush is a good guy. We're talking about the same sociopath and war criminal whose warmongering and free wheeling neoliberal ideology (minus regulation or oversight) have bankrupted the nation and made us the laughing stock/scourge of the entire planet? And Obama thinks he's "a good guy"? Nice!

So, just one question to you Obama worshippers out there . . . any regrets?

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» Regrets Posted by: EinMD
UNBELIEVABLE
Posted by: bcain on Jan 17, 2009 8:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While we're at it, why don't we just let go of everything that seems to have us "looking backwards". Lets scap the entire juducial system, because, after all, it doesn't "look forward". Let's release all the prisoners, and just forget about what they did, because that would be "looking backwards".

On and on this nightmare goes with no one, and I mean no one, willing to take responsibilty, lest they appear to be "looking backwards" - nothing anyone with any respectability wants to be accused of.

UNBELIEVABLE!!

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» RE:NO JUSTICE FOR ALL Posted by: americansheep
Never Happen
Posted by: Lupin65 on Jan 17, 2009 8:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Although it may be true that the Bush administration is guilty, they will never face any prosecution for what they did. President Obama won't do anything about the abuses of power of the Bush administration.

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Author declines to include false flag operation of Pearl Harbor
Posted by: 2dogarage on Jan 17, 2009 8:54 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... whereby FDR provoked the Japanese into attacking our sitting-duck naval installations in Hawaii by issuing an oil embargo on them, the event which brought this country firmly into the fray of WWII against the will of Americans, setting the precedent followed by LBJ and Tricky Dick as well as the current administration.

No use invoking history if you're not going to be honest but somehow FDR remains the darling and daring leader. It never ceases to amaze me how obviously intelligent people are more than willing to ignore the facts if they are somehow inconvenient.

FDR set the precedent for presidents to get away with murder. It was during his administration that warrantless surveillance was invented (he even tapped his wife's phones), it was under his administration that the first real transfer of wealth took place when he bailed out the banking industry by enrolling common workers into the tax system (which was never actually ratified by Congress).

Historians with integrity will tell you that his humanitarian policies were conceived by other people, that his programs to lift the nation out of the financial crisis were only moderately successful and that WWII was the event that finally led us out of the Great Depression.

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Obama..push too hard and you'll be in a Limo at Dealy Plaza
Posted by: Zimbly on Jan 17, 2009 9:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Obama pushes too hard to uncover the folks that were responsible for the 911 attacks, the Anthrax attacks, the "put options" on American Airlines and United,the folks who "lost" 2.3 trillion, the folks behind Worldcom and the Enron scam... and 2 stolen elections( and a partridge in a pear tree).......I can guarantee you...there will be a "lone gunman ".

Obama "knows" he is walking into a vipers den and must act accordingly.
Why do you think the Dems became so "spineless" after 911....because the Anthrax Letters were sent "only " to Dems....just in case they "didn't get message."

Danger Will Robinson , Danger.....

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Continuity of Government
Posted by: GatoPreto on Jan 17, 2009 9:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This fine article states many points that have been obvious to most Alternet readers for a while now, always begging the question "how the ?$% to they expect to pull this off and walk away free?!"

The answer may very well lie in the mysterious dealings of the Continuity of Government measures which successfully covered Oliver North et al.'s collective behind. Bush declared a state of emergency on 911 and has since renewed it every year. They will simply claim that the Constitution does not apply to states of emergency, judges will wiggle and sigh in their high seats while lawyers will make zillions of murky legalese statements, and in the end, they will all walk away completely exonerated.

If that happens, it'll mark the end of the rule of law.

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Jail the $ociopaths
Posted by: GUY FOX on Jan 17, 2009 9:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
George W. Bush is a vicious dry drunk $ociopath with the insight of a jackass and the compassion of a rabid dog. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld (etal) MUST be indicted and prosecuted, preferably in the World Court at the Hague, for war crimes... and crimes against humanity. These people are demons!

It is imperative that Bush and other anti-$ocial neocon nuts in his criminal regime be prosecuted... in order to set precedents that will make future world leaders think before committing such heinous acts against humanity... against their fellow man (and woman).

The $avage butchery and carnage that Zionist beasts in the theocrazy of Israel are presently doing in the Warsaw ghetto of Gaza is the last and final $ociopathic act of the Bush regime. Bush and his cronies have given blind $upport and a quiet nod to their Zionist masters to commit mayhem and genocide in Gaza (using Amerikan made bombs and jets)... all in the name of Jeeeeeeeeeeezzass!... and the arrogant tribe-all-eeego of Zionism!

Obama MUST prosecute Bush (etal)... or lose credibility for everything else he would do. Or maybe worse: face open rebellion in the streets. Amerika's ruling class had better wake up... or guerrilla elements in the general population will "franchise Timothy McVeigh" and tear this nation apart!

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» RE: Jail the $ociopaths Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Ummm... Obama is the CEO of the Corporate States of America, says FOX...
Posted by: gunboat diplomat on Jan 17, 2009 10:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Really!

CEOs are chosen by Boards of Directors, who in turn are "elected" by shareholders - except that the deal is spelled out as one dollar, one vote - NOT one person, one vote. If you own 75% of the shares, you get to appoint whoever you want. Funny thing about CEOs, their primary (and legal) responsibility is to the shareholder, not to employees or the public.

So, this leads one to wonder - in the Corporate States of America (CSA), who are the majority shareholders and who sits on the Board?

First, the foreign ownership is about 25%. www.treas.gov 2008

Those are the major holders of U.S. treasury securities - in order, China (681), Japan (577), United Kingdom (360), and get this - Caribbean Banking Centers (220), all Oil Exporters (198), Brazil (130), Russia (78), Luxembourg (75), Hong Kong (66), Switzerland (63)... that about 80% of all foreign-owned treasury securities... in billions of dollars.

That's about 1/4 of U.S. securities. Currently, the biggest chunk - 53% - is owned by "Federal Reserve and Intragovernmental Holdings."

Hurray! This means that our majority shareholders are not foreign countries - good for us, we have "self-determination", unlike some other sorry countries, who are indeed owned by foreigners. On the other hand, the state and local governments only account for some 6% of security ownership... meaning that China has more say than any single U.S. state, by a good bit.

But, who are these Federal Reserve and "intragovernmental" people who control 53% and therefore are the majority, the select who elect?

Well, it turns out that the Federal Reserve has its own Board of Directors and CEO - Bernanke, Greenspan, Volker, etc... who are selected how?

The official claim is that they are selected and confirmed by the President and the Congress... as are the heads of the FDA and other agencies, and there's plenty of corruption involved in that without resorting to larger conspiracy notions, i.e. "the Mob runs the Fed" - the white-collar mafia, not the Sicilians - the preppy Yale types.

The conspiracy notion has been presented as follows:
Each of the twelve Federal Reserve Banks is organized into a corporation whose shares are sold to the commercial banks and thrifts operating within the Bank's district.

Shareholders elect six of the nine the board of directors for their regional Federal Reserve Bank as well as its president....the top eight stockholders of the New York Fed were, in order from largest to smallest as of 1983, Citibank, Chase Manhatten, Morgan Guaranty Trust, Chemical Bank, Manufacturers Hanover Trust, Bankers Trust Company, National Bank of North America, and the Bank of New York.

Together, these banks owned about 63 percent of the New York Fed's outstanding stock... many of these banks are owned by about a dozen European banking organizations... through their American agents they are able to select the board of directors for the New York Fed and to direct U.S. monetary policy.


There is usually something in there about the British, the Jews, etc., especially on some right-wing sites, which echoes the Nazis and their "Jewish banking conspiracy", etc.

Regardless of that, we can say with confidence who doesn't own the country, who doesn't get a say in policy, who is expected to shut up and listen to the wise ones - you, me and the rest of the people in this country. Unless, of course, you own a tidy stack of U.S. securities...

Now, when have you heard of an incoming CEO attacking the legacy of the past, incompetent, crooked CEO? No, all CEOs are "forward looking."

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P.S. Barclay's just lost 25% of their share value...
Posted by: gunboat diplomat on Jan 17, 2009 12:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Barclays is one of the most prominent shareholders in U.S. corporations. They are the single largest owner of stock in companies as diverse as Microsoft, ExxonMobil, Intel, JP Morgan Chase, AT&T, Verizon - the list goes on.

However, the incestuous relationship is now biting Barclays hard:

www.guardian.co.uk

Citigroup, Bank of America and Merrill Lynch revealed losses over three months of $25bn (£17bn) between them yesterday.Citigroup sought extra funds from the US treasury and is being forced to break itself up as the price of its rescue.

Why does that matter? Barclays owns 4.8 billion in Citigroup, $6.7 billion in BofA (top shareholder), and so on.

Isn't it interesting how U.S. taxdollars have been used to protect the interests of ridiculously wealthy British bankers? That's our corrupt government in action.

At least this economic collapse is exposing a lot of the fraud and corruption at the heart of the British-American banking nexus - that's about the only bright spot.

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My comment above
Posted by: PrinceRobert on Jan 17, 2009 12:44 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
was directed at AJR Journal, of course. The comment headed "Moron" is an excellent comment with which I totally agree. Thanks EINmd

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WTF?
Posted by: gunboat diplomat on Jan 17, 2009 12:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A brief search did turn up some interesting forecasts by your friend....

Neoconservatives, neoliberals and neocolonialists...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jul 17, 2007 10:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Self-styled conservatives are better understood as regressives. They are typically fairly incompetent and their position is based on some wealthy ancestor who left them buckets of cash. They wish for a situation in which they can enjoy their inherited wealth without having to share with the peasants or the colored folks or the uppity women.

In short, they want a return to the 18th century, pre-American Revolution style of business and government. They've reinstated the Crown Corporation system that was the major enemy of the colonies (British East India, Hudson Bay, etc. - it was a revolution against corporate rule). WHo was the main shareholder in these corporations? Why, the King of England!

The neoliberal agenda is pretty much the same thing. The main difference is that neoliberals believe in global imperialism carried out through backdoor economic invasions such as NAFTA - the typical IMF-World Bank approach. The neoconservatives instead believe in global imperialism carried out through military means - essentially, they are simply copying Hitler's aggressive expansionist tendencies.

They're all a bunch of drunken fools on a cruise ship heading for a big, mean reef - which they can't even see coming. Ever see the Titanic? Remember to head for the lifeboats before you get locked below decks, everyone... though in this case, it seems that the entire planet is the Titanic. You have nowhere to run to!

As far as immigrants, the best immigration law that we have is the one that says that anyone who wishes to become a US citizen must renounce all aristocratic titles - so does that mean that we get to kick King George and Emperor Cheney out of the country?


Fairly accurate prediction - but don't you think the tone there is that of a belligerent drunk?

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» RE: WTF? Posted by: tony_opmoc
Take to the streets
Posted by: PrinceRobert on Jan 17, 2009 12:53 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's just put it this way. If these criminals are not brought to justice by the agencies that we pay to maintain the rule of law, then we who have hired them must do the job ourselves. If the Bush admin. AND their cronies in congress and the courts, their enablers (regardless of political hue), are not brought to justice, and I mean right away, then that's all we need to know that our Constitutional government and the rule of law are gone, history, toast. Then it is up to We the People to restore those and get this nation under control. That will not be done by protest. That will be done by demand. Be ready to take action. Form affinity groups. NOW.

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Regrets? you must be kidding
Posted by: PrinceRobert on Jan 17, 2009 1:03 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When the best the Repubs could come up with was McCain/Palin.. no choice to be made. It was important to repudiate the previous 8 years of insanity but there was really no choice. The repubs intentionally threw the election because they want the dems to be blamed for the train wreck that no one can prevent.

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» RE: egrets? you must be kidding Posted by: tennismom
I Concur Completely!
Posted by: Solar Wind on Jan 17, 2009 1:56 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
BushCo must be investigated and prosecuted as required by Our Constitution and international laws. Otherwise I fear we will not be able to move on, to change, to hope; because we will be held back by a psychic layer of scum and slime shame that all Americans - with a conscience - will feel, however subtly. I want MY pride back. I want my pride in MY country back.

These crimes can not be allowed to stand.

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Bobble1
Posted by: Bobble1 on Jan 17, 2009 4:17 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Naive to think any of them will be brought to justice. Pretty to think so though...

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It's up to US!
Posted by: Ahimsa on Jan 17, 2009 4:35 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I haven't seen any efforts to bring people together to demand bringing these criminals to justice.
Just like we accepted the alleged (twice) stolen elections, the two wars waged on deception, the transfer of wealth, the oblivion that New Orleans became. We put up with it, We implicitly accepted it and therefore, supported it all.
If we don't bring it to the streets, why are we expecting St. Obama and Congress to do anything? What if Obama is not held up to his own word? Are we gonna just keep whining?
Passive Americans, stop shopping, let's get our heads off our butts, stop watching bimbo-TV and texting idiotic messages all day long.
Take it to the streets, retake our democracy, unless there is no such.
For the People by the People? What if the People don't give a crap?
Who should then? Where is Move On.org? Where are the grassroots?
Celebrating Obama Obama Obama? drunken, like in South Park?
COME ON PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!! WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!

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Bush Lite
Posted by: RevolutionNet on Jan 17, 2009 4:36 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

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"We the people" are "supposed" to be the government,
Posted by: the baron on Jan 17, 2009 6:46 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but we will not be properly represented by those whom the majority have put in office if all we do is bitch and whine on these posts and snipe at each other.

I am not going to argue laws, and the violations of those laws committed we know of them (mostly, we can only hopefully think). Nor will I argue over the view points of a lawyer, since I myself am not one, nor am I a politician which also applies to Elizabeth Holtzman.

Justice should be sought, and sought for all harmed because of our apathy, and our ingratitude to what we posses. But to shoulder this responabilty solely on our incoming President shows the lack of understanding about, respect for, and knowledge dealing with, our government.

There is a reason why our government is separated into three branches Legislative, Executive, and Judicial. Neither is supposed to hold more power over the other in any capacity to produce favoritism for its own self.

The long winded point being the Judicial Branch is responsible for going after Bush, Obama can as President give the go-ahead to make it action occur more speedily.

The unfortunate side effect is the one everyone is missing. Should Obama choose to draft a request to the Judicial Branch as opposed to the reverse in prosecuting the Bush administration for crimes committed, this will come accross as a partisan witch hunt.

You may cry out "So what moron?!? We need to see this done for all the reasons we know it needs to be!" (I refuse to go into those details.). True it needs to be done but it "should" be done in a way that will not cause further division amongst our nation.

Do you honestly believe that the few remaining Republicans, and Neo-Conservatives left in their respective offices who are complicit in what has happened are really all that scared of this so far one occurrence of a "unified voice" out burst of the people?

Do you think that if Obama should in fact do what "we the people" are demanding him to do; at least here in this rant session, will not be subjected to pressure and resistance from the remaining right opposing his proposals to fix our nation?

Do you believe these representatives left in power by the citizens whom we of the liberal set refer to as "Them", are in fact not so short sighted as to further ruin this country by simple "protecting their own" in retaliation to what I have previously mentioned what will be viewed as a partisan witch hunt?

The mass "We" see Obama not only as a breath of fresh air but as a messiah. He's not.

He's just a man.

We need to petition to our state representatives to take action, to voice to our nation and ourselves, let alone the world that it is clear that the people of America want justice to be done.

If justice is pursued through a "witch hunt" fashion just to cut to the point here. Then we and the world will suffer more, and longer no thanks to our continued negligence to our freedoms.

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Just now waking up? I'VE BEEN TELLING ALL TO PUSH FOR ACCOUNTABILITY for 4 years.
Posted by: common intelligence on Jan 17, 2009 9:13 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What the hell, is Elizabeth Holtzman just waking up in the eleventh hour.
And everyone else reading this redundant article.
It’s as though no one's been reading and listening.

What are you all going to do, put a red carpet out for the whole corrupt regime to make the final exit on Airfarce 1 taking ol' Bush nuts to his final retreat.

Get these guys before Pelosi puts up a bed for him in her house.

What the hell was wrong for everyone pushing for IMPEACHMENT? IS everyone a bunch slack-jawed bunch of do nothing whining liberals?
All talk but no action Bull shitters just appeasing their need to vent.

Come on folks get into action. Nail these bastards or hang'm
After all they'd do it to you in a heart beat.

Get Rove and keel-haul that prick.
Beat Cheney, Waterboard his ass and cut his nuts out.
Rummy too.
They need to be hanged just like they had their proxy henchmen do to Saddam Hussein.
Rip their fucken heads off.

You all know the story just write your asses off on "www.change.gov"

(don't make me have to give you a quick link just cut and paste.)

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You Want To Prosecute? Then Form A Consensus
Posted by: sebastianguy999 on Jan 17, 2009 10:59 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ok, I hear all those who are really obsessed with this issue.But I'm tired of your moralizing and I'm tired of your laziness.

You people know full well that there is no demand for these prosecutions except on the far edges of the Left. If you don't know that then your really are hopeless.

You folks need to take all of your righteous indignation and start persuading people that this is something the nation must do. Quit expecting Obama to take the political hit to indulge your moral sensibilities.

You must stop talking to each other and repeating these things to each other as you look like a bunch of wingnuts. Get out there and do the work, build a consensus so that the politicians know they aren't committing political suicide for indulging a small slice of the population.

Obama isn't beyond criticism, but I'm tired of reading all these "calls for justice" and placing the responsibility all of him and you just sit back and watch!

Most people do not care about this issue to the extent they want to see prosecutions. You must persuade them. This is how it works in a democracy. Now step away from the keyboard, get off your high horses and start the hard work it's going to take to get this done.

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Unbelievable
Posted by: Blink on Jan 18, 2009 5:32 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Get Rove and keel-haul that prick.
Beat Cheney, Waterboard his ass and cut his nuts out.
Rummy too.
They need to be hanged just like they had their proxy henchmen do to Saddam Hussein.
Rip their fucken heads off.


I've always known that liberals are totalitarians, but, boy, does this ever highlight that fact.

Don't count on your Sainted One to do anything on his own that requires a spine. Even if I thought Bush/Cheny deserved prosecution -- which I don't -- your guy ZerObama has about as much steel in his spine as a piece of Reynold's wrap. This guy just wants everyone to like him.

He ought to take another piece of advice from Lincoln (who, by the way, believed that, in a mixed society, whites should remain in control and did not view blacks as being equal to whites), with minor variation: You can please some of the people all of the time, and you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time...which is what this Big Nothing and National Scold seems intent on trying to do.

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» RE: Unbelievable Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: Unbelievable Posted by: Bibsisis
stupid
Posted by: grkjr on Jan 18, 2009 8:30 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One can't get far into an article like this where the blame is bush bush bush... it is truly amazing that we can after so many years of this, still buy it that everything is the fault of one foolish man in power. Sorry, but the constitution alliows for someone to go crazy or act crazy in office.. It provides for congress to remove him. pretty simple..so everything relating to violations of one crazy or incompetent president is true for one incompetent congress. and throw in the supreme court too, as they must vacate all principles of preserving the constitution as well. And who keeps sending this fools back to congress.. we do... so bottom line, stop the crying and step up to the plate and take responsibility for voting the way you do.. even in the last election the vote for obama was a merely few million out out 100 or so million.. so the public supports what they lived through and what they are about to live through.. a new administration devoted the same principles in general as the last ... more war to preserve our standard of living, more deregulation in case the can catch the next wave to wealth.,,, on and on.. obama is "center of center and neocon".. by no means capable of seeing let alone of changing the direction we are on... he will seek the new "central" compromise of democracy for security sakes, and continue to abandon by default, unions, middle class, and stick to "fear" being a principle for action.. watch as the next 350 billion seeks not to solve our problems but to be a dance of compromise where expediency and wealth call the shots. Then, look in the mirror and cry.

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more chow at home for the chow hounds.
Posted by: edgar1 on Jan 18, 2009 9:13 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
why not start the prosecutions with poverty-stricken Tim Geutner, the ex fed reserve boss of NYC, who presided over the corruption of Wall St over the past few years? Timmy is a cheapskate despite his wealth. Timmy deducted from his taxes his kids fees to ritzy sucmmer camps unavailable to poor kids.


However, Timmy must be a financial genius because Prez o, already hailed as our greatest prez ever, likes him. and he likes the fatso bungling ex-prez of Harvard who bitched up education in Cambridge, lathered the bankers during the Clinton Administration, and is now the head of Prez O's Economic Advisory team. And check the hands of Gen Jones the new national security advisor. A lovely scarlet tinge.

I guess it's tacky to suggest Bill Libido Clinton be indicted for the Marc Rich payoff? Well, we can ask a "legal" opinion form Prez O buddy Eric "pardon me" Holder, the new sheriff in town.

Two trillion in new spending? What an intricately thoughtful plan. I mean who is against getting "free" dough from the Treasury. Tough choices, that Prez O makes! OMG.

And so much to steal. Makes a pood Chicago boy cry, to paraphrase our greatest philosopher(after Dylan), Mick Jagger.

You think the "poor" will get a penny from this bunch of Wall St and LaSalle St looters?

I just may have to dust off my old copies of Marx from college. The old carbuncular Jew may have been right after all!

Billy Ayers and Bernadine, you were right after all. Ditch those soft academic jobs Prez O's friends got you and train a new generation of revolutionaries. We've got the biggest fascist of all time in office, and it's time to hit the streets.

Let's sharpen our forks!

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Accountability
Posted by: Pop on Jan 18, 2009 10:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Agree that Obama must do his sworn duty. It is important however that no political commission be appointed as they tend to routinely cover-up wrong-doing, just as they did in the Iran/Contra drugs for weapons and the 9-11 Commission that avoided/ignored all evidence that proved government complicity,as well as th massive demolition of the WTC and the fact that there were no hijackers. The Bush Crimes investigatin must be accomplished by a truly independant prosecuter team.

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Indictments must be pursued!
Posted by: Dana L. Stern on Jan 18, 2009 12:17 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All of America is waiting to see Bush administration law breakers brought to justice. Starting at the top of the food chain. This will renew faith in American principles and renew faith in responsible government!

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» American principles? Posted by: chance garden
Please free US from Israel
Posted by: weathered on Jan 18, 2009 1:32 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
America will heal itself.

As long as AIPAC infects Congress/Media/Banking.....

we are fucked.

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Are you surprised?
Posted by: Mystery Solver on Jan 18, 2009 3:22 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Obama Has to Hold Bush Accountable for the Laws He Broke"

BUT HE WONT. PEOPLE STOP PRETENDING OBAMA WILL HOLD BUSH ACCOUNTABLE FOR ANYTHING.

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It'll never happen
Posted by: beandang on Jan 18, 2009 3:54 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sadly, you know as well as I do that it will never happen. Bushes crimes against humanity will be swept under the rug nice and neatly!

RT
Privacy Center

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Let’s Get Real and Pragmatic Instead of Blaming Bush For All
Posted by: iris89 on Jan 19, 2009 8:18 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let’s Get Real and Pragmatic Instead of Blaming Bush For All (note, I am NOT a Bush supporter, but I believe in fairness and truth.)

Some wish to put the blame on Bush for everything, even calling the pragmatic actions he was forced into criminal wrongs.

NOW, Let’s take the case of spying and detention even though it is not liked it is necessary for all civilized countries since “NUT CASES” and their religious leaders such as Muslim religious leader, Sheik Osama bin Ladin are directing their followers to commit unthinkable evil against humanity in violation of Jesus (Yeshua) words at Matthew 5:43-45, “Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.” (Authorized King James Bible; AV).

PRAGMATIC REALITY:

[1] If the USA had had better intelligence gathering in 2001, there would never have been an Iraq war!

[2] If the USA had had better intelligence spying organization in 2001 there would never have been an 09/11/2001 crime against humanity.

[3] A large number of the detainees who have already been released have rescinded into their evil ways so reality is their release was unwise. Evil criminals should be detained until they become unveil.

Just as the the inspired word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible says at 1 Peter 3:11, “Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.” (AV), and at 2 Corinthians 13:11, “Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.” (AV). When mankind practices peace the world will be a wonderful place. So all should be seeking to do as Ephesians 4:3 recommends to us, “Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.” (AV).

Reality is that ALL should learn what the Bible really says and seek to do it, and to this end I recommend a book, “What Does The Bible Really Teach?”

For all those desirous of learning more and/or contacting me to discuss by PM, go to,

http://jude3.proboards92.com/ A Free-Speech Forum For All

Iris89

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Form a consensus?
Posted by: CaliJim on Jan 19, 2009 11:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow...nobody but us on the extreme left think we should hold Bush accountable? Nice comment...what do you have to factually back that up?

I can't find any polls that aren't at least a year old, but I do have these from 2006 and 2007.
_____________________________________________

For Release: January 16, 2006

http://www.democrats.com/bush-impeachment-poll-2

New Zogby Poll Shows Majority of Americans Support Impeaching Bush for Wiretapping

By a margin of 52% to 43%, Americans want Congress to consider impeaching President Bush if he wiretapped American citizens without a judge's approval, according to a new poll commissioned by AfterDowningStreet.org...."

___________________________________________

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/28680

Impeachment
Here's a new poll from American Research Group

November 13, 2007 - Impeachment

A total of 64% of American voters say that President George W. Bush has abused his powers as president. Of the 64%, 14% (9% of all voters) say the abuses are not serious enough to warrant impeachment, 33% (21% of all voters) say the abuses rise to the level of impeachable offenses, but he should not be impeached, and 53% (34% of all voters) say the abuses rise to the level of impeachable offenses and Mr. Bush should be impeached and removed from office.


A total of 70% of American voters say that Vice President Dick Cheney has abused his powers as vice president. Of the 70%, 26% (18% of all voters) say the abuses are not serious enough to warrant impeachment, 13% (9% of all voters) say the abuses rise to the level of impeachable offenses, but he should not be impeached, and 61% (43% of all voters) say the abuses rise to the level of impeachable offenses and Mr. Cheney should be impeached and removed from office.

Maybe if we had a good impartial poll taken NOW, we'd find similar or even higher rates (note how the percentages of people agreeing Bush and Cheney abused their powers and should be held accountable increased from 2006 to 2007) especially if we actually told the truth clearly and deliberately to the American people.

Americans have a real sense of right and wrong...and they know Bush and Cheney have been wrong for a long time...excepting the delusional Republican supporters who can't ever rise above their ideological biases.

By the way...I posted this article on the Change.org website, so - assuming they actually read what is posted on the website - Obama will definitely know about this article...although I can't believe he wouldn't know about it, as well as the one by Paul Krugman and Constitutional scholar Jonathan Turley...both of which make the same point. If you don't enforce the law, people will lose all respect for it.

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Obama Administration MUST prosecute Bush, et.al as an example so it might not ever happen again!
Posted by: Bibsisis on Jan 19, 2009 10:13 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama is a peacemaker who truly wants to include everyone in his administration and make it the United States of America, not red and blue states, but for all, as it is supposed to be.

I'm worried he won't stand up as president and get the Justice Dept. on it and prosecute these criminals since he has the economy, two wars, unemployment, and other things to deal with. However, he has garnered qualified people from every sector to help him get some answers and solutions to begin to solve those problems.

I think he would be a great example to the world if he stands up and says "torture by the USA is unacceptable, it never has been acceptable, and it never will be acceptable; therefore, I am calling on our Dept. of Justice to investigate and bring evidence back to us." I know many groups which began organizing to impeach Bush and the Cheney gang, and it is not in the best interest of our country to just let this cancer go and grow. If Bush and Cheney, et. al, are allowed to get away with war crimes, spying on innocent Americans, and flagrant violations of the Constitution, there will be no hope for Obama's dream of uniting the country.

Not that President Obama will ever read this post, but I hope someone tells him to read or watch what Keith Olbermann on Countdown said to him last night about this topic. This is not partisan, not liberal, not conservative; this is a global, humanitarian issue, and I also think John McCain might be the one to help pursue it.

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Obama did not vote for Dumbya's illegal, immoral war...
Posted by: Bibsisis on Jan 19, 2009 10:36 PM   
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...and he is NOT pledged to continue it. He will stop it as soon as possible, but only a fool, and he is not one, would think he can say on day one, troops come home! He has said it will be done asap in an orderly and well-thought-out fashion.

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Its easy. Just spend the first year fixing things. Spend the next 3 years
Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Jan 21, 2009 9:55 PM   
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developing the cases and prosecuting. There is no need to rush to prosecution. That doesn't mean you skip it. We still have 42% of the people who voted republican. They need to be convinced 4 years from now that the republicans are the criminals that we know that they are.

We are not doing this for revenge. We do this because we must. Their propaganda is powerful. They have the money to keep it flowing. The only way to thwart this is to pick carefully the time and place to reveal their sins

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andyi99
Posted by: andyi99 on Jan 22, 2009 4:04 AM   
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Ms. Holtzman's article encapsulates the argument for restoration of the rule of law after the rape and pillaging of Bush, Cheney, et. al. Ms. Holltman would be an asset to any commission appointed to carry out such an investigation.

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