COMMENTS: 120
Israel's Actions Are Irrational, No Matter How Much U.S. Politicians Try to Cast Them As Normal
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Jews, historically, have been irrationally feared, hated and killed. Given that background, it's not surprising that the irrationality which surrounded them for so long, the fire of irrationality in which they were almost extinguished, has jumped across and taken hold of the soul of many Jews and indeed dominates the thinking of today's Israeli leaders and their American supporters.
Recent history shows that the Jews, as a people, have found few friends who are honest and true. During World War II, when Hitler's anti-Semitism was responsible for the murdering of the millions of Jews, the world and the United States expressed their own anti-Semitism by refusing to house and welcome the tortured race, preferring instead to let it be exterminated if need be. After the war, the world felt it owed the Jews something -- but then showed its lack of true regard for the tormented group by "giving" them a piece of land populated and surrounded by another people -- an act of European imperialism carried out exactly at the moment when non-European peoples all over the world were finally concluding that European imperialism was completely unacceptable and had to be resisted. And now we have the spectacle of American politicians encouraging and financing Israeli policies which will ultimately lead to more disaster and destruction for Jews.
It is not rational to believe that the Palestinians in the occupied territories will be terrorized by force and violence, by cruelty, by starvation or by slaughter into a docile acceptance of the Israeli occupation. There is no evidence that that could possibly happen and mountains of evidence to the contrary.
Many right-wing Israelis and American Jews clearly believe that Jews have always had enemies and always will have enemies -- and who can be shocked that certain Jews might think that? To these individuals, a Palestinian throwing stones at an Israeli soldier, even if his life has perhaps been destroyed by the Israeli occupation, is simply part of an eternal mob of anti-Semites, a mob made up principally of people to whom the Jews have done no harm at all, as they did no harm to Hitler. The logical consequence of this view of the world is that in the face of such massive and eternal opposition, Jews are morally justified in taking any measures they can think of to protect themselves. They are involved in one long eternal war, and a few hundred Palestinians killed today must be measured against many millions of Jews who were killed in the past. The agony the Israelis might inflict on a Palestinian family today must be seen in the perspective of Jewish families in agony all over the world in the past.
It is irrational for the Israeli leaders to imagine that the Palestinians will understand this particular point of view -- will understand why Jews might find it appropriate, let us say, to retaliate for the death of one Jew by killing a hundred Palestinians. If a Palestinian killed a hundred Jews to retaliate for the killing of one Palestinian -- for that matter, if a Thai killed a hundred Cambodians to retaliate for the killing of one Thai -- which, from the point of view of the Israeli leaders, would of course be unjust, that would be racist, as if one Palestinian or one Thai were worth a hundred Israelis or a hundred Cambodians. But if a Jew does it, it's not unjust and it's not racist, because it's part of an eternal struggle in which the Jews have lost and lost and lost -- they've already lost more people than there are Palestinians. Well, it's not surprising that certain Jews would feel this way, but no Palestinian will ever share that feeling or be willing to accept it. What the Palestinians see is an implacable and heartless enemy, one that considers itself un-bound by any rules or principles, an enemy that can't be reasoned with but can only be feared, hated and, if possible, killed.
As poor and oppressed people around the world are very well aware of the events in the occupied territories, and as they strongly identify with the Palestinian struggle and point of view, the future of the Jews looks increasingly dim.
Consequently it is disgraceful and vile and no favor to the Jews for American politicians -- for narrow, short-term political advantage, for narrow, short-term global-strategic reasons and, yes, also in expiation of the residual guilt they feel over what happened to the Jews in the past -- to pander to the irrationality of the most irrational Jews.
Actions based on irrational premises inevitably fail in their purposes -- they fail, and if the premises don't change, then the actions are inevitably repeated, in forms which are more and more grotesque. It is unbearable to think that the new American administration would begin with more American dollars being poured into what is unjustifiable. It is also unbearable to think that among the first words we would hear from our new, clearly rational president would be preposterous sentences trying to persuade us that Israeli policies which seem to be appalling are actually quite normal and acceptable. Certainly nothing our new president could do would be of greater value to the world -- and greater value to the Jews -- than to abruptly end the sickeningly patronizing habit of supporting an irrationality which was born in tragedy and will end in more tragedy.
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Posted by: Jay Randal on Dec 31, 2008 12:36 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: nobody in Congress knows?? it is called maintaining deniability
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: nobody in Congress knows?? it is called maintaining deniability
Posted by: Jay Randal
» RE: nobody in Congress knows?? it is called maintaining deniability
Posted by: Lauren
» Nov. 5, 2008: Gaza truce broken as Israeli raid kills six Hamas gunmen
Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: Israel is out-of-control and basically nobody in Congress cares
Posted by: puf_almighty
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Dec 31, 2008 1:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think the implication may be correct: that the Israelis need to free themselves of the Jewish victim mentality to which they have become addicted, and which they have used to justify oppressing the Palestinians and alienating much of the world.
Unfortunately, the US is the biggest part of the problem. With such a big Sugar Daddy providing them with money, weapons, and the threat of nuking any country who rises up against them, the Isrealis have the luxury of feeding their delusion that the only way to survive is to piss everybody off.
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» RE: Irrational
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Irrational
Posted by: donl51
» ISRAELI TERRITORY GREW WITH EACH SUCCESSIVE ALTERCATION. IT WOULD BE HARD TO DESCRIBE
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
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Posted by: weathered on Dec 31, 2008 1:27 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
See this link w/Israel for exactly what it is, extortion in Technicolor.
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» RE: Until AIPAC is fully dismantled
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Until AIPAC is fully dismantled
Posted by: weathered
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Posted by: joshstrike on Dec 31, 2008 2:02 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If, as you say, Israel only exists today because of Euro/American guilt over the Holocaust -- which may well be the case -- it nonetheless exists, it's an entity that was created by the United Nations, and it's a sovereign country with a right to defend its territory against attack. Isn't it?
Your premise, that it's some ingrained Jewish paranoia responsible for Israel's retaliation against the rocket attacks, is by definition racist. It ignores the fact that any sovereign state in a similar position would pursue a similar course...and few if any would be so careful to not wound civilians, by calling peoples' cell phones and warning them beforehand of an impending attack. So either you think that the state of Israel in itself has no right to exist, as such, or you think that only Jews are to be taken to task for defending their own country.
Whichever it is, it ignores historical reality, and does surprisingly little to further the cause of real peace, insofar as it ignores the real situation on the ground.
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» RE: it's a sovereign country, so why pick fights with the neighbors?
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: it's a sovereign country, so why pick fights with the neighbors?
Posted by: joshstrike
» RE: makes sense...'til the last two paragraphs
Posted by: cyrena1987
» You don't make sense
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: Propaganda.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: besides ethnic cleansing
Posted by: Lauren
» Excuse me!!...at whose country?...
Posted by: donl51
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Posted by: weathered on Dec 31, 2008 2:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How many times has Israel's self-inflicted surface wounds sparked cause for action, in todays depth of drama, we find this massive attack was months in planning.
This device of deflection, for which there are many are rolled out like a Rolex w/perfect timing to mask a deceptive motive, a classic tactic. 'by deceit, we wage war' Mossad's motto. Deceit indeed.
Israel fools no one but their very sad selves.
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» RE: The 'rain of rockets' is as predicted by nostrodomus the nut
Posted by: Lauren
» Again, 'show me who you walk with
Posted by: weathered
» RE: The 'rain of rockets' is as
Posted by: cyrena1987
» RE: The 'rain of rockets' is as
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: The 'rain of rockets' is as
Posted by: weathered
» RE: The 'rain of rockets' is as
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: The 'rain of rockets' is as
Posted by: Lauren
» EncinoM
Posted by: weathered
» "Israel fools no one?"
Posted by: curiousdwk
» Golan Heights
Posted by: Von
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Posted by: dannrusso on Dec 31, 2008 5:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't know whether thats a story to take a moral lesson from or a quirk in the system of hate that has been fostered.
sigh.
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» Understand this
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: Understand this
Posted by: Lauren
» Lauren
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: I cant understand why people cant get along
Posted by: HiTech RedNeck
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Posted by: owlsliveintrees on Dec 31, 2008 6:18 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Israel didn't quit Gaza; It simply turned it into a Concentration Camp
Posted by: MeyravLevine
» RE: Israel didn't quit Gaza; It simply turned it into a Concentration Camp
Posted by: EncinoM
» Geneva was designed to protect victims, not occupiers
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: Geneva was designed to protect victims, not occupiers
Posted by: owlsliveintrees
» RE: Geneva was designed to protect victims, not occupiers
Posted by: Brez
» Wrong buddies
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: Wrong buddies
Posted by: Brez
» you missed the point
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: you missed the point
Posted by: Brez
» RE: you missed the point
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: Wrong buddies
Posted by: draco40
» MSM line on Hamas is wrong
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: Geneva was designed to protect victims, not occupiers
Posted by: EncinoM
» way to take a side
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: way to take a side
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: self defense
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: way to side with the abuser again
Posted by: mgmyers79
» "GENEVA" ? ha, ya mean Bush follows it ?
Posted by: Von
» "Palestinian militants"
Posted by: Von
» RE: "Palestinian militants"
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: "Palestinian militants"
Posted by: Von
» RE: "Palestinian militants" here is a ha ha
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: "Palestinian militants" here is a ha ha
Posted by: Von
» RE: Gaza wasn't occupied
Posted by: Stephen888oz
» RE: Gaza wasn't occupied
Posted by: MeyravLevine
» Weird tangent
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: Weird tangent
Posted by: Von
» RE: Gaza wasn't occupied
Posted by: Von
» RE: Gaza wasn't occupied
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Gaza wasn't occupied
Posted by: Gisele
» RE: Legalities.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Legalities.
Posted by: owlsliveintrees
» RE: Gaza wasn't occupied
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Gaza wasn't occupied
Posted by: owlsliveintrees
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Posted by: maxpayne on Dec 31, 2008 6:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Arabs are the worst of the lot
Posted by: MeyravLevine
» RE: Arabs are the worst of the lot.? ....I' beg to differ!
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Arabs are the worst of the lot.? ....I' beg to differ!
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Arabs are the worst of the lot.? ....I' beg to differ!
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: cybercitizen on Dec 31, 2008 6:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Israeli Rabbis ought to stop converting Peruvian Incas and
Posted by: MeyravLevine
» RE: Israeli Rabbis ought to stop converting Peruvian Incas and
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: The Jews and the Palestinians are the same people ... actually, no.
Posted by: bcgirl125
» I like yer post cybercitizen
Posted by: Von
» IF YOU ARE A 'MODERN JEW', A CONVERT, I UNDERSTAND YOU CANNOT GAIN ISRAELI
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
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Posted by: Elmo409 on Dec 31, 2008 7:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is it any wonder that there is no peace to be found?
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» RE: A Theocratic State is By Definition Irrational
Posted by: magistre
» RE: A Theocratic State is By Definition Irrational
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: A Theocratic State is By Definition Irrational
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: their invisible friend told them it was okay to slay all the people living in that land
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: maxpayne on Dec 31, 2008 7:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By Saifedean Ammous
The US, EU, and Israel in addition to those Arab nations rife with corrupt dictators I mentioned are equally GUILTY.
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Posted by: rtmyth on Dec 31, 2008 9:31 AM
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» RE: dick
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» I NOW AGREE WITH HARRY TRUMAN. RIGHT WING U.S. JEWS PRESSED
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
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Posted by: Gregory Kruse on Dec 31, 2008 9:41 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: They really, really want their land back.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: They really, really want their land back.
Posted by: True2Blue
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Posted by: True2Blue on Dec 31, 2008 11:24 AM
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We can spot you folks from your first typed sentence.
This isn't Gaza. You've got no power here.
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» RE: Israel's PR War
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: oregoncharles on Dec 31, 2008 12:08 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's unjust: most Jews have little or no control of Israel's actions - there are far more of them in other countries than in Israel.
It's also painfully ironic: Israel was founded as a refuge for the Jews in a hostile world. Yet today, it's a dangerous place that endangers Jews in more peaceable countries. Dangerous, not so much because of terrorism, which is greatly reduced, but because they have made such intense enemies. Israel's military superiority can't last forever. It's already visibly slipping. What happens then?
A while back, another commenter whose name I don't remember made an interesting point: if you wanted a refuge for the Jews, why would you thrust them into the midst of their enemies? The answer, of course, is religion. Sigh. Another example of irrationality.
(History, here: until the creation of Israel, Muslim countries were far friendlier to Jews than Christian ones. That's where the Spanish Jews, the Sephardim, went when they were driven from Spain. It was creating what was essentially a European colony in the heart of the Muslim lands that caused the present hostility.)
In reality, as that commenter pointed out, the best refuge turned out to be Los Angeles, where they said they live. And the United States in general, greatly chastened by its errors during the buildup to WWII. There is certainly anti-Semitism here, presently being stimulated by Israel's actions; but it's socially unacceptable and has little force.
Not at all like the wall of hostility, much of it all too justified, that surrounds Israel.
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Posted by: whealeydj on Dec 31, 2008 4:29 PM
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» SHIA
Posted by: Von
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Posted by: peaceia85 on Dec 31, 2008 5:06 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not good for us. not good for Israel.
But neither the president, congress nor the MSM would dare say Israel does anything wrong. The key to US policy in the Mideast is Israel. The key to the policy is the Israel lobby.
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Posted by: LeftWright on Dec 31, 2008 5:47 PM
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Rory McCarthy in Jerusalem -guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 5 November 2008 14.32 GMT
A four-month ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza was in jeopardy today after Israeli troops killed six Hamas gunmen in a raid into the territory.
Hamas responded by firing a wave of rockets into southern Israel, although no one was injured. The violence represented the most serious break in a ceasefire agreed in mid-June, yet both sides suggested they wanted to return to atmosphere of calm.
Israeli troops crossed into the Gaza Strip late last night near the town of Deir al-Balah. The Israeli military said the target of the raid was a tunnel that they said Hamas was planning to use to capture Israeli soldiers positioned on the border fence 250m away. Four Israeli soldiers were injured in the operation, two moderately and two lightly, the military said.
One Hamas gunman was killed and Palestinians launched a volley of mortars at the Israeli military. An Israeli air strike then killed five more Hamas fighters. In response, Hamas launched 35 rockets into southern Israel, one reaching the city of Ashkelon.
"This was a pinpoint operation intended to prevent an immediate threat," the Israeli military said in a statement. "There is no intention to disrupt the ceasefire, rather the purpose of the operation was to remove an immediate and dangerous threat posted by the Hamas terror organisation."
In Gaza, a Hamas spokesman, Fawzi Barhoum, said the group had fired rockets out of Gaza as a "response to Israel's massive breach of the truce".
"The Israelis began this tension and they must pay an expensive price. They cannot leave us drowning in blood while they sleep soundly in their beds," he said.
The attack comes shortly before a key meeting this Sunday in Cairo when Hamas and its political rival Fatah will hold talks on reconciling their differences and creating a single, unified government. It will be the first time the two sides have met at this level since fighting a near civil war more than a year ago.
Until now it had appeared both Israel and Hamas, which seized full control of Gaza last summer, had an interest in maintaining the ceasefire. For Israel it has meant an end to the daily barrage of rockets landing in southern towns, particularly Sderot. For Gazans it has meant an end to the regular Israeli military raids that have caused hundreds of casualties, many of them civilian, in the past year. Israel, however, has maintained its economic blockade on the strip, severely limiting imports and preventing all exports from Gaza.
Ehud Barak, the Israeli defence minister, had personally approved the Gaza raid, the Associated Press said. The Israeli military concluded that Hamas was likely to want to continue the ceasefire despite the raid, it said. The ceasefire was due to run for six months and it is still unclear whether it will stretch beyond that limit.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/ world/2008/nov/05/israelandthepalestinians
(please close space after uk/)
The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.
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» RE: Thanks, LeftWright.
Posted by: oregoncharles
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Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Dec 31, 2008 9:21 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From what I have been able to determine San Bernardino County California is slightly larger than Israel. Its almost all desert. It would have been cheaper to have moved Israel there a long time ago. This probably would not have been satisfactory with anybody except me. They would have had to build their own wailing wall.
I well remember growing weary with the Irish situation. I am now weary with the Israeli situtation. Perhaps the UN should just impose a solution. I once jokingly suggested that the solution to the Irish situation was to arm both sides and let them get it over with. It appears that the Palestinians and the Israelis are aready well armed. That doesn't seem a solution.
The only solution that seems likely is death. Old men die. The only end to a conservative is death. Ultimately the solution to the problem is embalming fluid.
We can hope that the new generation of young men will just be smarter. That seems to be what the United States is doing. The young people voted for Obama. But we still had 42% that voted for idiocy. But the old men will die and the young men will keep doing what they just did.
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» RE: IGHT WING JEWS ARE JUST AS CRAZY AS RIGHT WINGERS ANYWHERE. I CAN'T
Posted by: HiTech RedNeck
» RE: IGHT WING JEWS ARE JUST AS CRAZY AS RIGHT WINGERS ANYWHERE. I CAN'T
Posted by: HiTech RedNeck
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Posted by: sicntired on Dec 31, 2008 10:50 PM
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Posted by: gsmiley on Jan 1, 2009 4:29 AM
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Unfortunately the crazies on both sides are committed to outbreeding and displacing each other - just like in the Old Testament - and the secular Israelis and moderate Palestinians are caught in the middle.
Any peace overtures are construed as weakness to be exploited, peacemakers on either side are traitors to be hunted down. And our sympathy or condemnation means nothing in the face of exponentially growing populations struggling for resources in a limited world. Beyond the unlikely event of our species growing up into something else you better get used to it.
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» It's not envy of "resources"
Posted by: HiTech RedNeck
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Posted by: Garvagh on Jan 1, 2009 11:30 AM
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Posted by: J.D. on Jan 3, 2009 8:22 AM
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Still, Hamas is only hurting itself by using violence against Israel. Its actions provide a major justification for Israel’s maltreatment of the Palestinians. If the Palestinians were to all commit to using only nonviolent means of resistance, Israeli acts like the current aggression in Gaza could not continue. If attacks on Israel ceased, Israel would have two choices: scale down its aggression and human rights abuses, or not. If it continued on its current path, it would be impossible for even the U.S. to continue to support those policies.
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Posted by: Jonalist on Jan 3, 2009 9:10 AM
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Posted by: floridahank on Jan 5, 2009 2:32 PM
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There is no other army in the world that takes such extreme measures to protect noncombatants.
- Channel 10, Israel TV, (January 1, 2009
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Posted by: iris89 on Jan 14, 2009 10:40 AM
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Why do the residents of Gaza keep firing rockets and mortars at Israel if they do NOT like the humanitarian conditions it creates? Is it some kind of irrational insane self induced flagellations. It just does NOT make sense to me.
That makes as much sense as a carpenter who hits his thumb instead of the nail purposely doing it again and again – most would consider this a mental case as I do Hamas’ actions, and those of suicide bombers.
For those wishing to discuss this with me or ask questions, go to:
http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/ An Educational Referral Forum
and PM me.
Iris89
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Posted by: iris89 on Jan 14, 2009 10:42 AM
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Second, Now, with respect Palestine there is a scripture all should consider, 1 Peter 3:11, "Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it." (Authorized King James Bible; AV).
But neither the Ishmaelites - Hamas, nor the Hebrews - Israelites are considering it. Strange as they are both descendants of Abraham, one by Ishmael and one by Issac.
Now, even though the Ishmaelites control over 98% of the Middle East, they are greedy for the less than 2% of the Middle East belonging to their brother tribe, the Hebrews - Israelites. This is NOT the way for the descendants of Abraham who walked with Almighty God (YHWH) to act.
Why is this? It is because neither is walking with the TRUE GOD as did Abraham, but both are being mislead by none other than Satan the Devil per 2 Corinthians 4:4, "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." (AV).
In fact, the Ishmaelites instead of pursuing peace in accordance with what Jesus (Yeshua) the Son of God said at Matthew 22:37-40 said, "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (AV).
This is clearly shown by what one Australian Newspaper said, "Did you know that 90-95% of the conflicts in the world today are Muslims fighting non-muslims or each other? " [source - The Weekend Australian, November 26-27, 2005 AD]"
However, what the world needs is peace, not war. So clearly we can see that the Ishmaelites are in a false religion not walking with Almighty God (YHWH), the God of Abraham; nor are the Hebrews who do not recognize his son, Jesus (Yeshua), anymore than the Ishmaelites.
All need to be showing love for neighbor by exposing false beliefs that are ruining mankind by misleading him from walking with the True God of Abraham, Almighty God (YHWH).
To learn more, go to:
http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/ An Educational Referral Forum
And going down to:
DISCUSSIONS AND EXPOSURES, and to subject Exposing False Belief A Loving Act
Iris89
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Posted by: iris89 on Jan 14, 2009 10:44 AM
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Whose Land Is It? A Study of The Land of Palestine
INTRODUCTION:
Land title research in many areas is a very difficult task. In Mexico, the titles to farm land are so clouded it can take years to adequately search them. In some places the granting of title to land by a legitimate granter can go back over 3,500 years. One such place is the land of Palestine where current occupancy has no relationship to whom holds title.
Even some of the most famous buildings in the land of Palestine are actually squatters on land to which others hold title. The most famous instance of this is the Temple Mount and its squatter mosque that sits on the site of the ancient temple of ancient Hebrew kingdom and belongs to the Hebrews. This mess with many occupying land as squatters for which others hold title makes for an untenable position when the rightful title holder takes back his/her land, especially so when it is centuries later.
The present situation in much of Palestine is like the battle between the squatters and the owners, titleholders of land in the old west in the United States; to wit, squatters wanting to continue to squat and land owners wanting their land back. However, some additional situations enter the picture since many of the land owners - their ancestors - were forced off the their land by the Romans and by later Caliphs. Now of course the rule of law should be applied and the squatters finally brought to their day of reckoning with reality, they have no title to the land they are on.
To read the remainder, go to,
[go to] http://jude3.proboards92.com/index.cgi?board=islam
And then to the article, "Whose Land Is It? A Study of The Land of Palestine"
Iris89
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Posted by: iris89 on Jan 14, 2009 10:46 AM
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Hamas is NOT seeking peace as clearly shown by Hamas' denial of the right of the Israelites to exist; whereas, Israel never has denied the right of the Palestines to existence. Nor has Israel ever used civilians as human shields or suicide bombers. Both of these practices show a clear disregard for peace and love of life and fellow man. Both the Ishmaelites - Hamas, and the Hebrews - Israelites should be walking with the TRUE GOD as did Abraham, but neither are.
For details, go to, http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/
An Educational Referral Forum and start learning the ways of peace and reality. If there are any questions or you want to discuss, PM me at this forum.
Iris89
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Posted by: Jay Randal on Dec 31, 2008 12:36 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: nobody in Congress knows?? it is called maintaining deniability
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: nobody in Congress knows?? it is called maintaining deniability
Posted by: Jay Randal
» RE: nobody in Congress knows?? it is called maintaining deniability
Posted by: Lauren
» Nov. 5, 2008: Gaza truce broken as Israeli raid kills six Hamas gunmen
Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: Israel is out-of-control and basically nobody in Congress cares
Posted by: puf_almighty
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Dec 31, 2008 1:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think the implication may be correct: that the Israelis need to free themselves of the Jewish victim mentality to which they have become addicted, and which they have used to justify oppressing the Palestinians and alienating much of the world.
Unfortunately, the US is the biggest part of the problem. With such a big Sugar Daddy providing them with money, weapons, and the threat of nuking any country who rises up against them, the Isrealis have the luxury of feeding their delusion that the only way to survive is to piss everybody off.
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» RE: Irrational
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Irrational
Posted by: donl51
» ISRAELI TERRITORY GREW WITH EACH SUCCESSIVE ALTERCATION. IT WOULD BE HARD TO DESCRIBE
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
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Posted by: weathered on Dec 31, 2008 1:27 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
See this link w/Israel for exactly what it is, extortion in Technicolor.
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» RE: Until AIPAC is fully dismantled
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Until AIPAC is fully dismantled
Posted by: weathered
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Posted by: joshstrike on Dec 31, 2008 2:02 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If, as you say, Israel only exists today because of Euro/American guilt over the Holocaust -- which may well be the case -- it nonetheless exists, it's an entity that was created by the United Nations, and it's a sovereign country with a right to defend its territory against attack. Isn't it?
Your premise, that it's some ingrained Jewish paranoia responsible for Israel's retaliation against the rocket attacks, is by definition racist. It ignores the fact that any sovereign state in a similar position would pursue a similar course...and few if any would be so careful to not wound civilians, by calling peoples' cell phones and warning them beforehand of an impending attack. So either you think that the state of Israel in itself has no right to exist, as such, or you think that only Jews are to be taken to task for defending their own country.
Whichever it is, it ignores historical reality, and does surprisingly little to further the cause of real peace, insofar as it ignores the real situation on the ground.
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» RE: it's a sovereign country, so why pick fights with the neighbors?
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: it's a sovereign country, so why pick fights with the neighbors?
Posted by: joshstrike
» RE: makes sense...'til the last two paragraphs
Posted by: cyrena1987
» You don't make sense
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: Propaganda.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: besides ethnic cleansing
Posted by: Lauren
» Excuse me!!...at whose country?...
Posted by: donl51
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Posted by: weathered on Dec 31, 2008 2:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How many times has Israel's self-inflicted surface wounds sparked cause for action, in todays depth of drama, we find this massive attack was months in planning.
This device of deflection, for which there are many are rolled out like a Rolex w/perfect timing to mask a deceptive motive, a classic tactic. 'by deceit, we wage war' Mossad's motto. Deceit indeed.
Israel fools no one but their very sad selves.
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» RE: The 'rain of rockets' is as predicted by nostrodomus the nut
Posted by: Lauren
» Again, 'show me who you walk with
Posted by: weathered
» RE: The 'rain of rockets' is as
Posted by: cyrena1987
» RE: The 'rain of rockets' is as
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: The 'rain of rockets' is as
Posted by: weathered
» RE: The 'rain of rockets' is as
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: The 'rain of rockets' is as
Posted by: Lauren
» EncinoM
Posted by: weathered
» "Israel fools no one?"
Posted by: curiousdwk
» Golan Heights
Posted by: Von
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dannrusso on Dec 31, 2008 5:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't know whether thats a story to take a moral lesson from or a quirk in the system of hate that has been fostered.
sigh.
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» Understand this
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: Understand this
Posted by: Lauren
» Lauren
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: I cant understand why people cant get along
Posted by: HiTech RedNeck
Comments are closed-
Posted by: owlsliveintrees on Dec 31, 2008 6:18 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Israel didn't quit Gaza; It simply turned it into a Concentration Camp
Posted by: MeyravLevine
» RE: Israel didn't quit Gaza; It simply turned it into a Concentration Camp
Posted by: EncinoM
» Geneva was designed to protect victims, not occupiers
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: Geneva was designed to protect victims, not occupiers
Posted by: owlsliveintrees
» RE: Geneva was designed to protect victims, not occupiers
Posted by: Brez
» Wrong buddies
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: Wrong buddies
Posted by: Brez
» you missed the point
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: you missed the point
Posted by: Brez
» RE: you missed the point
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: Wrong buddies
Posted by: draco40
» MSM line on Hamas is wrong
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: Geneva was designed to protect victims, not occupiers
Posted by: EncinoM
» way to take a side
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: way to take a side
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: self defense
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: way to side with the abuser again
Posted by: mgmyers79
» "GENEVA" ? ha, ya mean Bush follows it ?
Posted by: Von
» "Palestinian militants"
Posted by: Von
» RE: "Palestinian militants"
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: "Palestinian militants"
Posted by: Von
» RE: "Palestinian militants" here is a ha ha
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: "Palestinian militants" here is a ha ha
Posted by: Von
» RE: Gaza wasn't occupied
Posted by: Stephen888oz
» RE: Gaza wasn't occupied
Posted by: MeyravLevine
» Weird tangent
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: Weird tangent
Posted by: Von
» RE: Gaza wasn't occupied
Posted by: Von
» RE: Gaza wasn't occupied
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Gaza wasn't occupied
Posted by: Gisele
» RE: Legalities.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Legalities.
Posted by: owlsliveintrees
» RE: Gaza wasn't occupied
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Gaza wasn't occupied
Posted by: owlsliveintrees
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Posted by: maxpayne on Dec 31, 2008 6:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Arabs are the worst of the lot
Posted by: MeyravLevine
» RE: Arabs are the worst of the lot.? ....I' beg to differ!
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Arabs are the worst of the lot.? ....I' beg to differ!
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Arabs are the worst of the lot.? ....I' beg to differ!
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: cybercitizen on Dec 31, 2008 6:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Israeli Rabbis ought to stop converting Peruvian Incas and
Posted by: MeyravLevine
» RE: Israeli Rabbis ought to stop converting Peruvian Incas and
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: The Jews and the Palestinians are the same people ... actually, no.
Posted by: bcgirl125
» I like yer post cybercitizen
Posted by: Von
» IF YOU ARE A 'MODERN JEW', A CONVERT, I UNDERSTAND YOU CANNOT GAIN ISRAELI
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
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Posted by: Elmo409 on Dec 31, 2008 7:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is it any wonder that there is no peace to be found?
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» RE: A Theocratic State is By Definition Irrational
Posted by: magistre
» RE: A Theocratic State is By Definition Irrational
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: A Theocratic State is By Definition Irrational
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: their invisible friend told them it was okay to slay all the people living in that land
Posted by: Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maxpayne on Dec 31, 2008 7:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By Saifedean Ammous
The US, EU, and Israel in addition to those Arab nations rife with corrupt dictators I mentioned are equally GUILTY.
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Posted by: rtmyth on Dec 31, 2008 9:31 AM
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» RE: dick
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» I NOW AGREE WITH HARRY TRUMAN. RIGHT WING U.S. JEWS PRESSED
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
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Posted by: Gregory Kruse on Dec 31, 2008 9:41 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: They really, really want their land back.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: They really, really want their land back.
Posted by: True2Blue
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Posted by: True2Blue on Dec 31, 2008 11:24 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We can spot you folks from your first typed sentence.
This isn't Gaza. You've got no power here.
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» RE: Israel's PR War
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: oregoncharles on Dec 31, 2008 12:08 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's unjust: most Jews have little or no control of Israel's actions - there are far more of them in other countries than in Israel.
It's also painfully ironic: Israel was founded as a refuge for the Jews in a hostile world. Yet today, it's a dangerous place that endangers Jews in more peaceable countries. Dangerous, not so much because of terrorism, which is greatly reduced, but because they have made such intense enemies. Israel's military superiority can't last forever. It's already visibly slipping. What happens then?
A while back, another commenter whose name I don't remember made an interesting point: if you wanted a refuge for the Jews, why would you thrust them into the midst of their enemies? The answer, of course, is religion. Sigh. Another example of irrationality.
(History, here: until the creation of Israel, Muslim countries were far friendlier to Jews than Christian ones. That's where the Spanish Jews, the Sephardim, went when they were driven from Spain. It was creating what was essentially a European colony in the heart of the Muslim lands that caused the present hostility.)
In reality, as that commenter pointed out, the best refuge turned out to be Los Angeles, where they said they live. And the United States in general, greatly chastened by its errors during the buildup to WWII. There is certainly anti-Semitism here, presently being stimulated by Israel's actions; but it's socially unacceptable and has little force.
Not at all like the wall of hostility, much of it all too justified, that surrounds Israel.
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Posted by: whealeydj on Dec 31, 2008 4:29 PM
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» SHIA
Posted by: Von
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Posted by: peaceia85 on Dec 31, 2008 5:06 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not good for us. not good for Israel.
But neither the president, congress nor the MSM would dare say Israel does anything wrong. The key to US policy in the Mideast is Israel. The key to the policy is the Israel lobby.
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Posted by: LeftWright on Dec 31, 2008 5:47 PM
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Rory McCarthy in Jerusalem -guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 5 November 2008 14.32 GMT
A four-month ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza was in jeopardy today after Israeli troops killed six Hamas gunmen in a raid into the territory.
Hamas responded by firing a wave of rockets into southern Israel, although no one was injured. The violence represented the most serious break in a ceasefire agreed in mid-June, yet both sides suggested they wanted to return to atmosphere of calm.
Israeli troops crossed into the Gaza Strip late last night near the town of Deir al-Balah. The Israeli military said the target of the raid was a tunnel that they said Hamas was planning to use to capture Israeli soldiers positioned on the border fence 250m away. Four Israeli soldiers were injured in the operation, two moderately and two lightly, the military said.
One Hamas gunman was killed and Palestinians launched a volley of mortars at the Israeli military. An Israeli air strike then killed five more Hamas fighters. In response, Hamas launched 35 rockets into southern Israel, one reaching the city of Ashkelon.
"This was a pinpoint operation intended to prevent an immediate threat," the Israeli military said in a statement. "There is no intention to disrupt the ceasefire, rather the purpose of the operation was to remove an immediate and dangerous threat posted by the Hamas terror organisation."
In Gaza, a Hamas spokesman, Fawzi Barhoum, said the group had fired rockets out of Gaza as a "response to Israel's massive breach of the truce".
"The Israelis began this tension and they must pay an expensive price. They cannot leave us drowning in blood while they sleep soundly in their beds," he said.
The attack comes shortly before a key meeting this Sunday in Cairo when Hamas and its political rival Fatah will hold talks on reconciling their differences and creating a single, unified government. It will be the first time the two sides have met at this level since fighting a near civil war more than a year ago.
Until now it had appeared both Israel and Hamas, which seized full control of Gaza last summer, had an interest in maintaining the ceasefire. For Israel it has meant an end to the daily barrage of rockets landing in southern towns, particularly Sderot. For Gazans it has meant an end to the regular Israeli military raids that have caused hundreds of casualties, many of them civilian, in the past year. Israel, however, has maintained its economic blockade on the strip, severely limiting imports and preventing all exports from Gaza.
Ehud Barak, the Israeli defence minister, had personally approved the Gaza raid, the Associated Press said. The Israeli military concluded that Hamas was likely to want to continue the ceasefire despite the raid, it said. The ceasefire was due to run for six months and it is still unclear whether it will stretch beyond that limit.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/ world/2008/nov/05/israelandthepalestinians
(please close space after uk/)
The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.
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» RE: Thanks, LeftWright.
Posted by: oregoncharles
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Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Dec 31, 2008 9:21 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From what I have been able to determine San Bernardino County California is slightly larger than Israel. Its almost all desert. It would have been cheaper to have moved Israel there a long time ago. This probably would not have been satisfactory with anybody except me. They would have had to build their own wailing wall.
I well remember growing weary with the Irish situation. I am now weary with the Israeli situtation. Perhaps the UN should just impose a solution. I once jokingly suggested that the solution to the Irish situation was to arm both sides and let them get it over with. It appears that the Palestinians and the Israelis are aready well armed. That doesn't seem a solution.
The only solution that seems likely is death. Old men die. The only end to a conservative is death. Ultimately the solution to the problem is embalming fluid.
We can hope that the new generation of young men will just be smarter. That seems to be what the United States is doing. The young people voted for Obama. But we still had 42% that voted for idiocy. But the old men will die and the young men will keep doing what they just did.
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» RE: IGHT WING JEWS ARE JUST AS CRAZY AS RIGHT WINGERS ANYWHERE. I CAN'T
Posted by: HiTech RedNeck
» RE: IGHT WING JEWS ARE JUST AS CRAZY AS RIGHT WINGERS ANYWHERE. I CAN'T
Posted by: HiTech RedNeck
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sicntired on Dec 31, 2008 10:50 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: gsmiley on Jan 1, 2009 4:29 AM
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Unfortunately the crazies on both sides are committed to outbreeding and displacing each other - just like in the Old Testament - and the secular Israelis and moderate Palestinians are caught in the middle.
Any peace overtures are construed as weakness to be exploited, peacemakers on either side are traitors to be hunted down. And our sympathy or condemnation means nothing in the face of exponentially growing populations struggling for resources in a limited world. Beyond the unlikely event of our species growing up into something else you better get used to it.
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» It's not envy of "resources"
Posted by: HiTech RedNeck
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Posted by: Garvagh on Jan 1, 2009 11:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: J.D. on Jan 3, 2009 8:22 AM
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Still, Hamas is only hurting itself by using violence against Israel. Its actions provide a major justification for Israel’s maltreatment of the Palestinians. If the Palestinians were to all commit to using only nonviolent means of resistance, Israeli acts like the current aggression in Gaza could not continue. If attacks on Israel ceased, Israel would have two choices: scale down its aggression and human rights abuses, or not. If it continued on its current path, it would be impossible for even the U.S. to continue to support those policies.
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Posted by: Jonalist on Jan 3, 2009 9:10 AM
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Posted by: floridahank on Jan 5, 2009 2:32 PM
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There is no other army in the world that takes such extreme measures to protect noncombatants.
- Channel 10, Israel TV, (January 1, 2009
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Posted by: iris89 on Jan 14, 2009 10:40 AM
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Why do the residents of Gaza keep firing rockets and mortars at Israel if they do NOT like the humanitarian conditions it creates? Is it some kind of irrational insane self induced flagellations. It just does NOT make sense to me.
That makes as much sense as a carpenter who hits his thumb instead of the nail purposely doing it again and again – most would consider this a mental case as I do Hamas’ actions, and those of suicide bombers.
For those wishing to discuss this with me or ask questions, go to:
http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/ An Educational Referral Forum
and PM me.
Iris89
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Posted by: iris89 on Jan 14, 2009 10:42 AM
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Second, Now, with respect Palestine there is a scripture all should consider, 1 Peter 3:11, "Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it." (Authorized King James Bible; AV).
But neither the Ishmaelites - Hamas, nor the Hebrews - Israelites are considering it. Strange as they are both descendants of Abraham, one by Ishmael and one by Issac.
Now, even though the Ishmaelites control over 98% of the Middle East, they are greedy for the less than 2% of the Middle East belonging to their brother tribe, the Hebrews - Israelites. This is NOT the way for the descendants of Abraham who walked with Almighty God (YHWH) to act.
Why is this? It is because neither is walking with the TRUE GOD as did Abraham, but both are being mislead by none other than Satan the Devil per 2 Corinthians 4:4, "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." (AV).
In fact, the Ishmaelites instead of pursuing peace in accordance with what Jesus (Yeshua) the Son of God said at Matthew 22:37-40 said, "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (AV).
This is clearly shown by what one Australian Newspaper said, "Did you know that 90-95% of the conflicts in the world today are Muslims fighting non-muslims or each other? " [source - The Weekend Australian, November 26-27, 2005 AD]"
However, what the world needs is peace, not war. So clearly we can see that the Ishmaelites are in a false religion not walking with Almighty God (YHWH), the God of Abraham; nor are the Hebrews who do not recognize his son, Jesus (Yeshua), anymore than the Ishmaelites.
All need to be showing love for neighbor by exposing false beliefs that are ruining mankind by misleading him from walking with the True God of Abraham, Almighty God (YHWH).
To learn more, go to:
http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/ An Educational Referral Forum
And going down to:
DISCUSSIONS AND EXPOSURES, and to subject Exposing False Belief A Loving Act
Iris89
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Posted by: iris89 on Jan 14, 2009 10:44 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whose Land Is It? A Study of The Land of Palestine
INTRODUCTION:
Land title research in many areas is a very difficult task. In Mexico, the titles to farm land are so clouded it can take years to adequately search them. In some places the granting of title to land by a legitimate granter can go back over 3,500 years. One such place is the land of Palestine where current occupancy has no relationship to whom holds title.
Even some of the most famous buildings in the land of Palestine are actually squatters on land to which others hold title. The most famous instance of this is the Temple Mount and its squatter mosque that sits on the site of the ancient temple of ancient Hebrew kingdom and belongs to the Hebrews. This mess with many occupying land as squatters for which others hold title makes for an untenable position when the rightful title holder takes back his/her land, especially so when it is centuries later.
The present situation in much of Palestine is like the battle between the squatters and the owners, titleholders of land in the old west in the United States; to wit, squatters wanting to continue to squat and land owners wanting their land back. However, some additional situations enter the picture since many of the land owners - their ancestors - were forced off the their land by the Romans and by later Caliphs. Now of course the rule of law should be applied and the squatters finally brought to their day of reckoning with reality, they have no title to the land they are on.
To read the remainder, go to,
[go to] http://jude3.proboards92.com/index.cgi?board=islam
And then to the article, "Whose Land Is It? A Study of The Land of Palestine"
Iris89
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Posted by: iris89 on Jan 14, 2009 10:46 AM
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Hamas is NOT seeking peace as clearly shown by Hamas' denial of the right of the Israelites to exist; whereas, Israel never has denied the right of the Palestines to existence. Nor has Israel ever used civilians as human shields or suicide bombers. Both of these practices show a clear disregard for peace and love of life and fellow man. Both the Ishmaelites - Hamas, and the Hebrews - Israelites should be walking with the TRUE GOD as did Abraham, but neither are.
For details, go to, http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/
An Educational Referral Forum and start learning the ways of peace and reality. If there are any questions or you want to discuss, PM me at this forum.
Iris89
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