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Rights and Liberties

Will a Fierce Battle Over Gay Rights Split the Anglican Church?

By Marcela Valente, IPS News. Posted December 27, 2008.


There is a "serious crisis" as conservative bishops from the United States are fleeing to South America.
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BUENOS AIRES, Dec 22 -- On the brink of a split in the global Anglican Communion that no one is eager to enlarge on, the Province of the Southern Cone of South America has become a temporary refuge for conservative bishops from the United States who refuse to countenance the liberal positions taken by the Church in their country.

The crisis began when gay bishops and same-sex unions, including clergy, were accepted in Anglican (or Episcopal) provinces in Canada and the United States. Conservatives who disapproved of these developments fell out with their church communities and sought pastoral oversight from South American provinces, further away geographically but theologically more compatible.

"Nobody (in the Anglican Communion) wants to say let's get a divorce, but when a relationship isn't working, someone has to decide whether or not they stay together, and no one here wants to make the decision," Gregory Venables, the primate (presiding bishop) of the Province of the Southern Cone, which includes the dioceses of Argentina, Bolivia, Chile, Paraguay, Peru and Uruguay, told IPS.

In 2007, Venables took on pastoral responsibility for the conservative bishops of four dioceses that left the Episcopal Church of the United States of America (ECUSA). "We had certain links, and after talking with (the Archbishop of) Canterbury, we decided to offer them emergency oversight until there is a more solid structure to contain them," he said.

Venables, who was born in the U.K. but has lived for 30 years in Latin America, said that ECUSA is pressing lawsuits for millions of dollars against the "dissidents," who paradoxically are followers of the orthodox traditions of the Church. There are properties at stake, and bishops who leave ECUSA forfeit their homes and stipends, he said.

The Anglican Communion is a fellowship of Anglican churches with some 77 million faithful in 160 countries. Each of the 38 existing provinces is self-governing, but they are all in communion with Canterbury, the founding see of this church and the residence of its spiritual leader, Archbishop Rowan Williams.

"The problem is that we have no mechanism for solving crises," said Venables. "We don't have a leader or an authority like the Pope (in the Roman Catholic Church) who can take decisions that are binding on other countries. The Archbishop of Canterbury is the first among equals, but the primates of the 38 provinces have full autonomy."

The Anglican Church of England separated from the Roman Catholic Church in the 16th century, and soon after expanded into Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa and the United States. Millions of new converts were made through missionary efforts in Africa and, to a lesser extent, Asia and Latin America.

At present there are 20 million Anglicans in Nigeria alone, more than in all the Anglo-Saxon countries put together. However, bishops in countries of the developing South have relatively little decision-making power compared with their colleagues in industrialized countries. For instance, their repudiation of the consecration of a gay bishop in the U.S. state of New Hampshire in 2003 was ignored.

"It's not so much about homosexuality as about as how decisions are taken," Venables complained. "Twenty years ago, when ECUSA decided to ordain women, it did so in such a way that dissent was stifled, and many church members don't wish to remain a part of a church that takes liberal decisions."


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brooklynbridge
Posted by: brooklynbridge on Dec 27, 2008 1:12 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If, instead of Anne Boleyn, Henry VIII had been smitten by a pretty young page boy, the course of Anglicanism would have been entirely different.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Just show me where Jesus said it
Posted by: thornwolf on Dec 27, 2008 1:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Followers of Jesus: Show me where Jesus said anything about homosexuality. He had lots to say about his heavenly father, but anti-gay he did not say. Why do you suppose that is? If he is who you say he is, wouldn't he have been sure to say everything important that needed to be said? He had every opportunity to do so.

When his disciples asked him, "Master, what shall we do?" Jesus didn't ask them what scripture told them, he didn't ask them what Moses said to do, he told them to "Love one another". That wasn't even in the Old Testament. Indeed, Jesus declared himself to be the New Testament, which kind of tosses out the old, does it not, if you are to take him at his word, and why wouldn't you if you worship him as god?

Oh ye of little faith.

Why do you adhere so clingingly to the hateful words of preachifying humans of questionable intent when your master's own loving words are there to guide you? "Love one another." What's not to understand about that? What explanation could that possibly require? Why do you doubt it? Why do you claim to follow him yet behave contrary to his advice? And still you pray! For what?

Oh ye of little faith.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» You've GOT to be kidding Posted by: tulugaq
» RE: Just show me where Jesus said it Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
» More baloney Posted by: thornwolf
» RE: More baloney Posted by: MatthewSavage
» LOL, You're Right! Posted by: thornwolf
» RE: Just show me where Jesus said it Posted by: loveallthepeople
This is about maintaining
Posted by: colinmeister on Dec 27, 2008 6:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The global Anglican communion. It is obvious that some large churches, especially in Africa, Asia, and Latin America have a problem with accepting homosexual marriage and ordination.

Rowan Williams has a difficult task in trying to balance the views of many different churches, and a whole stream of comments from Episcopal liberals in the USA does very little to help him, and nor do those clergy seeking to put themselves under the oversight of far away bishops.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: This is about maintaining Posted by: Namaste52
» RE: This is about maintaining Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
» Two of Henry VIII's wives... Posted by: Bbear41
» RE: This is about maintaining Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
» It's really about control Posted by: thornwolf
For Christ's sake, with all the life-and-death situations in the world right now...
Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Dec 27, 2008 10:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why the hell is "gay marriage" the number one "problem" these religious fanatics are worried about???

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» Correct!!! Posted by: ds1st
Bullies playing victim
Posted by: Afban on Dec 27, 2008 12:43 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I, for one, am sick of the Southern Cone bishops and the "dissidents" in the ECUSA trying to portray themselves as the "victims" in this whole mess. They're the ones who are ignoring church canons, they're the ones trying to force their views on the rest of us, yet they bray about being forced to accept something which goes against their beliefs. If the Anglican Communion were trying to force an openly homosexual bishop onto a diocese which was conservative, they might have a point. But, the AC doesn't work that way - dioceses select their own bishops. The Diocese of New Hampshire chose V. Gene Robinson (fairly overwhelmingly, as I understand). Why Nigeria should be allowed to deny them their choice is totally beyond me. Too bad Rowan Williams doesn't own a set of testicles...

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YOU ARE ALL WRONG!!!
Posted by: ds1st on Dec 27, 2008 4:21 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sodomy and its’ immoral linkage is tied to religion and health. This is true for other sexual orientations; i.e. like bestiality, it is venereal disease (a.k.a. VD). VD started with homosexuals engaging in sex with animals like sheep.

Now, lets’ look at this with facts, the butt is an out hole. It flushes waste from the human body. The act of anal sex is integrated by proximity with human waste. This by definition alone is filthy. If you don’t think human waste is filth, please eat human waste to convince yourself.

Thank you for your TIME!

It sound like the British like the smell and/or taste of human waste based on some of the previous comments.

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» RINGS TRUE!!! Posted by: ronavila
» RE: YOU ARE ALL WRONG!!! Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
» RE: YOU ARE ALL WRONG!!! Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
Could you BE more stupid?
Posted by: ronavila on Dec 27, 2008 8:02 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WOW! That's a good point... for us homos! Isn't the vagina an "out" hole as well as the penis?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Could you BE more stupid? Posted by: PopRox80
International Gay Rights Movements
Posted by: ronavila on Dec 27, 2008 8:12 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
South Africa has quite a gay rights movement as do some South American countries. The Asian movements are small from what I've heard. Please don't leave our brothers and sisters to the hate-mongers. Support global gay rights.
What seems "unnatural" is heteros having kids they don't want in an all ready overpopulated planet. And what do we gays and lesbians do? We adopt these kids and give them food, shelter and a LOVING family. Maybe that's what Christ would've done.
As far as "immoral", two people who love each other in a committed relationship is the apex of morality whether we are bestowed the title of marriage or not.

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Nigeria???
Posted by: PopRox80 on Dec 27, 2008 9:30 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For the life of me, I cannot understand why someone from Africa would defend a belief system pushed onto the entire continent by slavers, imperialists, and intolerant missionaries who worked to systematically destroy native beliefs and culture. I guess we're all just masochists, regardless of race, sex, or geographical location.

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Speaking From the Who Gives A Rats
Posted by: ranchero42 on Dec 27, 2008 11:53 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Patootie corner, what we've got staring us in the face is the main reason organized religion continues to marginalize itself. Self-inflicted damage is so much more fun to watch, anyhow. They involve themselves in politics, supposedly prepared for the backlash, and when it comes, they are shocked. Shocked, I say, to discover that there is secular thought going on here! Look in the phone book and you will find about fifty different Baptist denominations alone. The usual suspects are all there: snake handlers, foot washers, wife beaters and home schoolers. Look again next year and you'll find new ones have sprung up for people who weren't happy with the untaxed crowd of control freaks in the 'hood. Taxation will leave only the megachurches standing, but at least these edifices stick to the main drags, there's a chance our children will be safe from the brain-pissers if we get the churches out of residential areas, where we can finally start to get on with living.

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I commend Alternet
Posted by: rcase on Dec 28, 2008 4:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I commend Alternet for including (for once) an account that is straightforward and informative without a lot shrill posturing. And for once George Bush is not accused as having caused all this trouble.

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very bigfoot 13ee
Posted by: bigfoot 13ee on Dec 28, 2008 8:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bulling...this is not about an uncasterated male bovine...running amuck in the pasture throwing its front quarters on every other bovine in the pasture...caring not for what sex the other one is...its power..power...

Bullys do not accept themselves...they have to abuse others with language to assert themselves,
even the cone headed bishops...keep telling a lie, telling a lie...and idiots never asking them what Jesus Said...Jesus Said...What did Jesus Say...no, no,

"I am the bully at the pulpit"...I got the thing, that swagers...watch it swager...as I swager down the aisle...listen to my voice...as I hypotize you...you are under my spell...my spell...chant, chant, I am your master...listen to my voice...and when I count down from three to one, everything negative thought you will retain, and once you awake, you will not remember how you received it...I am your master...your master 3, 2, 1...awake you bastards...

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