COMMENTS: 132
Why Was Cheney So Quick to Admit He's a War Criminal?
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Dick Cheney has publicly confessed to ordering war crimes. Asked about waterboarding in an ABC News interview, Cheney replied, "I was aware of the program, certainly, and involved in helping get the process cleared." He also said he still believes waterboarding was an appropriate method to use on terrorism suspects. CIA Director Michael Hayden confirmed that the agency waterboarded three al-Qaida suspects in 2002 and 2003.
U.S. courts have long held that waterboarding, where water is poured into someone's nose and mouth until he nearly drowns, constitutes torture. Our federal War Crimes Act defines torture as a war crime punishable by life imprisonment or even the death penalty if the victim dies.
Under the doctrine of command responsibility, enshrined in U.S. law, commanders all the way up the chain of command, to the commander in chief, can be held liable for war crimes, if they knew or should have known their subordinates would commit them and they did nothing to stop or prevent it.
Why is Cheney so sanguine about admitting he is a war criminal? Because he's confident that either President Bush will preemptively pardon him or President-elect Obama won't prosecute him.
Both of those courses of action would be illegal.
First, a president cannot immunize himself or his subordinates for committing crimes that he himself authorized. On Feb. 7, 2002, Bush signed a memo erroneously stating that the Geneva Conventions, which require humane treatment, did not apply to al-Qaida and the Taliban. But the Supreme Court made clear that Geneva protects all prisoners. Bush also admitted that he approved of high-level meetings where waterboarding was authorized by Cheney, Condoleezza Rice, John Ashcroft, Colin Powell, Donald Rumsfeld and George Tenet.
Attorney General Michael Mukasey says there's no need for Bush to issue blanket pardons since there is no evidence that anyone developed the policies "for any reason other than to protect the security in the country and in the belief that he or she was doing something lawful." But noble motives are not defenses to the commission of crimes.
Lt. Gen. Antonio Taguba, who investigated the Abu Ghraib scandal, said, "There is no longer any doubt as to whether the current administration has committed war crimes. The only question that remains to be answered is whether those who ordered the use of torture will be held to account."
Second, the Constitution requires President Obama to faithfully execute the laws. That means prosecuting lawbreakers. When the United States ratified the Geneva Conventions and the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, thereby making them part of U.S. law, we agreed to prosecute those who violate their prohibitions.
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Posted by: EinMD on Dec 20, 2008 1:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2. He's hoping that if he asserts his dominance enough no one will doubt him and begin prosecution.
3. The "Hague Invasion Act" aka American Service members' Protection Act states that we will use any means necessary against any country that attempts to hold anyone responsible for war crimes.
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» RE: Three reasons: Spineless Gutless Cowardly Democrats
Posted by: left_libertarian
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Posted by: talkville on Dec 20, 2008 1:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hitler: Cheney and he would have gotten along admirably; Adolf would have swooned maybe.
Nietzsche: One might have heard him laughing a block away! A slave Hero!!
Lenin: made a note to include him perhaps in those polemics about 'infantile conditions'.
Mussolini: A great friend, a great advisor.
Bismark: Who?
Napoleon: "OK, he can be invited to the coronation".
Stalin: Brilliant! Admirable! Great! (Make note: kill him.)
Cheney: "So?"
One thing seems sure though: he practices well what very few know he preaches. Like Albright and the rest of them, any blood, guts, torn limbs, men, women, children left in this historical plane of Immanence is "worth it". No regrets.
What single organizing principle might have driven him through all this though? Anger? Revenge? Righteousness? Resentment?
Who knows? Like an Arendt Himmler, here's a person at the same time banal and endlessly the object of endless deductions.
Smirking his way to a comfy retirement and some warm hugs and toddies with family and friends.
Actual, particular, evidence and example of dead living. Not so much Cheney commits Crime as: Crime commits Cheney.
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» RE: A psychotic sociopathic narcisist
Posted by: sasquuatch55
» RE: A psychotic sociopathic narcisist
Posted by: bobtr900
» RE: Nietzsche wouldn't be laughing
Posted by: greenknight
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Posted by: hankgeorge on Dec 20, 2008 3:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Hank George
Posted by: jbpazz
» RE: mount a class action suit in any number of European cities
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Hank George
Posted by: aussidawg
» PRECISELY
Posted by: charlieparisek
» RE: Hank George
Posted by: Revolutionary (Direct) Democracy
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Posted by: Suzon on Dec 20, 2008 3:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is there an assumption here that Cheney and his co-conspirators actually grasp the reality of torture? If they knew what they were doing, how could they actually proceed?
However, the law does recognize recklessness--that people would have known or should have known that their actions would bring about human suffering.
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» RE: Barney Frank said of Newt Gingrich, he doesn't have ideas. He has ideas of how nice
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: What happened to the bowling alley?
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: warrior woman on Dec 20, 2008 3:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the Obama administration (as Clinton's did before with the Iran/Contra scandal) does not prosecute, this shows America and the world that American leaders are not subject to our laws, rather they are above them. It is not that it should be so, it is reality, however.
They could "arrest" them and hold them in detention until such time they get around to advising them of their crimes, allowing them access to attorney's and perhaps showing them or the lawyers the evidence against them as the Bush administration has shown suspected terrorists under the Military Commissions Act. The likelihood is they won't.
Perhaps they could start with an investigation of 9/11. I ask one question in that regard: what is the mathematical probability of 3 buildings perfectly imploding when 2 are struck by airplanes and the 3rd is not? All being built to sustain impacts from airplanes and having, in fact, survived previous attempts.
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» RE: Judge them not that they have morals like us, they do not
Posted by: pcushniesr
» RE: Judge them not that they have morals like us, they do not
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Judge them not that they have morals like us, they do not
Posted by: ajathiel
» RE: Judge them not that they have morals like us, they do not
Posted by: aussidawg
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Posted by: miz on Dec 20, 2008 4:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: mz anony
Posted by: rimchamp77
» RE: mz anony
Posted by: kungfuma
» RE: mz anony
Posted by: lenioui
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Posted by: Michel on Dec 20, 2008 4:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lt. Gen. Antonio Taguba, who investigated the Abu Ghraib scandal, said, "There is no longer any doubt as to whether the current administration has committed war crimes. The only question that remains to be answered is whether those who ordered the use of torture will be held to account."
In my mind there is no question. Bush and Cheney willfully changed the language of the law to make it legal for them to do something that in the past we have put people to death for.
Torture is wrong. It is illegal and immoral. They should not be given a pass on this one.
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» RE: APPOINT AND PROSECUTE
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: APPOINT AND PROSECUTE
Posted by: Michel
» RE: This is the pattern
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: This is the pattern
Posted by: Michel
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Dec 20, 2008 4:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't close Gitmo, just release the current prisoners so the REAL criminals can be Housed for indefinite periods (whenever we FEEL like getting around to Prosecuting them).
Get DICK is own Board, and automatic 'Flash Dance' shower...Feel the 'Surge'?
Theres men claim they allowed this to save lives.They have jeporadized and allowed the slaughter of thousands if not millions of people...I think they Qualify for their own Standards of War Criminal Treatment.
Just make sure DICKs Batteries are in good working order, we wouldn't want his Pace Maker to Stop, In fact lets insert a back up just to assure DICK sticks around long enough to have some fun.
Lest We forget that Cheney's "So" was a confession that the did NOT work for US..Thus Treason. And since 'Blood for Oil' has been a common phrase.. Add Crimes Against Humanity to this Oilman list of High Crimes.
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» RE: Grand father in "laws" and Methods
Posted by: Michel
» RE: it is a sacred honor to speak out against it
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Grand father in "laws" and Methods
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Grand father in "laws" and Methods
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: Longdream on Dec 20, 2008 5:12 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To do so would tie up Congress and the Justice Department for years, and siphon the nation's attention from where it belongs: correcting the aftermath of the Bush regime, and helping people who have been damaged in its wake.
If you don't remember Watergate, then do you remember Lewinsky, the blue dress, the big blue book of porn with the transcript of testimony, the cigar? Do you remember Ken Star's smirk, and the fact that Congress couldn't pass wind for the years that it all went on?
It's not that these criminals don't deserve prosecution. They're even worse criminals for taking advantage of the situation by openly admitting, even flaunting, their misdeeds. They also are world-famous for defying the law, refusing subpoenas, fleeing in the face of indictment and generally thumbing their noses at enforcement. Bringing them to any kind of justice would take three times as long as it would for normal felons.
All of this is weak and piss-poor, I know. But I think it's the situation we're facing, and I know they're laughing in our faces because of it.
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» RE: It's even worse than all that.
Posted by: javajoe
» RE: It's even worse than all that.
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: It's even worse than all that.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: It's even worse than all that.
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: It's even worse than all that.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: It's even worse than all that.
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Pessimism....
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: why bother with justice
Posted by: sonofloud
» RE: Patrick Fitzgerald
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Patrick Fitzgerald
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Patrick Fitzgerald
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Patrick Fitzgerald
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Patrick Fitzgerald
Posted by: Julian
» RE: It's even worse than all that. - BS
Posted by: left_libertarian
» However long it takes. Money is No objetc (Hense the Bailout!)
Posted by: common intelligence
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Posted by: phindrup on Dec 20, 2008 5:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While there is no doubt that for the immediate future there is little chance of outside repercussions, as the coming depression engulfs the world and the US sinks into the bottomless financial pit other countries will increasingly be in a position to apply pressure re the myriad wrongs committed by the US over the years. Eventually the imperative of survival will far outweigh the US’s blind pride and belief that none of their presidents ought ever face a war crimes tribunal.
‘American’s’ cannot expect sympathy from any country anywhere in the world. For too long the US threw its weight around ruthlessly gutting other countries economies for its own benefit.
Memories of such treatment lingers long, and anything that can be used to demean and belittle the US, will be used.
The wheel is turning, already beyond top dead centre and as the US fades into obscurity all of those who suffered from the brutality, the overweening arrogance will demand the right to give yet another turn of the screw.
The people of the US have no one the blame but themselves.
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» RE: Prosecute or else, it is an easy choice
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: lightinmyhands on Dec 20, 2008 5:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Fascism
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Fascism
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Of course Obama IS going to prosecute the war criminals
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Fascism
Posted by: tony12000
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Posted by: surfreality on Dec 20, 2008 5:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Torture has always been a policy based on fear. In fact, it can be credibly argued that the entire American foriegn policy of the last 8 years has been based on fear. Fear begets more fear which results in more violence. Al Qaeda understands this and hence is always attempting to provoke us into further savagery. This is how Al Qaeda recruits. As long as America holds to this approach Al Qaeda gains strength and America becomes a more desirable target.
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» RE: The Bush argument for torture:
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: Lauren on Dec 20, 2008 7:33 AM
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Posted by: johnorford on Dec 20, 2008 6:00 PM
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Posted by: 2dogarage on Dec 20, 2008 6:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To some of us 9/11 was an extreme case of the power to get people to suspend their disbelief in the name of patriotism. Heck, the laws of physics were changed for the "official" conspiracy theory, what does he have to fear?
This administration lied to the American people to justify invading Iraq, picked up citizens of sovereign countries on their own soil and held them indefinitely while torturing them in clear violation of international law, withheld documents requested by subpoena...the list goes on ad nauseam, no-bid contracts for Halliburton etc. I say again, what does he have to fear? The American people? The Democrats in Congress? Don't make me get milk all over my computer screen.
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» RE: Truth hiding in plain sight
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Truth hiding in plain sight
Posted by: weathered
» RE: Truth hiding in plain sight
Posted by: ajathiel
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Posted by: douglashoyt on Dec 20, 2008 7:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Failure to prosecute any administration for crimes of any sort sets an example of contempt for the laws.
This lack of holding criminal behavior responsible started long ago with the lack of prosecution of Richard M. Nixon.
Merry Christmas
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» RE: Failure to prosecute sets an example of contempt for the laws.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Here is an understatement,
Posted by: weathered
» RE: Here is an understatement,
Posted by: bluepilgrim
» RE: Here is an understatement,
Posted by: gary_7vn
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Dec 20, 2008 7:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Barry, my bruddah.
Posted by: Longdream
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Posted by: sonofloud on Dec 20, 2008 7:26 AM
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Nancy "impeachment is off the table" Pelosi?
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» RE: Impeachment is off the table.
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Impeachment is off the table.
Posted by: sonofloud
» RE: Speak English?
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Impeachment is off the table.
Posted by: Julian
» RE: Impeachment is off the table.
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Because he has nothing to fear, who's going to impeach
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: JSquercia on Dec 20, 2008 8:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Turn them over to the Hague?
Posted by: johnorford
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Posted by: QQOblivion on Dec 20, 2008 8:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To the right-wingers and so-called moderates, the REAL criminal was Bill Clinton.
I'm not kidding, this is what most Americans really believe.
The call for prosecution of war-crimes not only has to pass through the gauntlet of presidential pardons and Democratic politicians' inaction, but it also has to pass through the gauntlet of indifference from the American people, from the US "liberal" media, and especially from almost all of America's leaders too.
I don't know how to make the idea of justice mainstream and not just some way-out there hippy pinko concept, but maybe someone else does know how.
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Posted by: GregH on Dec 20, 2008 9:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe the Europeans will try them all in absentia
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Posted by: Don Quixote on Dec 20, 2008 9:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Don Quixote
Posted by: weathered
» RE: Yes!
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Yes!
Posted by: weathered
» tell it.
Posted by: babka
» RE: Don Quixote
Posted by: tony12000
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Posted by: logansafi on Dec 20, 2008 9:38 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: EvilPoet on Dec 20, 2008 9:53 AM
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Posted by: babka on Dec 20, 2008 10:40 AM
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» RE: Yes.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Posted by: weathered
» Where's the body and plane?
Posted by: common intelligence
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Posted by: GuitarBill on Dec 20, 2008 11:35 AM
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Yoo anticipated that the Bush administration's torture policy and his own memorandums might lead to prosecution. Yoo composed one legal memorandum which addressed this specific issue. The memorandum defined a legal strategy for criminal defense for hypothetical U.S. government defendants against hypothetical charges of crimes of torture and crimes against humanity.
In other words, Cheney is using Yoo's opinion as "law". [Golly, where have we seen this before? NRA anyone?]
Cheney literally believes that John Yoo's silly opinion will shield him from war crimes prosecution.
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» RE: Why Was Cheney So Quick to Admit He's a War Criminal?
Posted by: sheena2u
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Posted by: opmoc on Dec 20, 2008 11:40 AM
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Dec 20, 2008 12:13 PM
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CITIZEN'S ARREST APPLIES TO ALL CRIMINALS.
He confessed,all we need to do is DO IT!!
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» RE: Two little words:
Posted by: oregoncharles
» dept. of none dare call it treason
Posted by: babka
» "Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Posted by: babka
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Posted by: willymack on Dec 20, 2008 12:24 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: What words can describe
Posted by: Lauren
» No willymack
Posted by: johnorford
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Posted by: biwee on Dec 20, 2008 1:08 PM
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Posted by: scottfree on Dec 20, 2008 1:48 PM
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Posted by: Law Student409 on Dec 20, 2008 3:24 PM
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» RE: I think he will skate
Posted by: willymack
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Posted by: Annapurna1 on Dec 20, 2008 3:53 PM
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the majority isnt always right to be sure..and in this case i fully agree that bu$hco should be charged with war crimes violations...but that would be political suicide when 59% of the voters are on bu$cos' side...
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Posted by: Watercolors on Dec 20, 2008 5:17 PM
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Posted by: Julian on Dec 20, 2008 8:18 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The legal stratagem always exploited by ringleaders' lawyers, when they have exhausted the irrelevant jurisdictional arguments, is the denial of a chain leading from the defendants to the deeds.
The answer is maybe to remember that first responsibility for a crime belongs to the mongrel who actually commits it. Somebody tortured those prisoners. Somebody bundled other captives into planes bound for foreign torture centres. These creatures need outing on a permanent basis (how about a Crimewatch website which also offers them space to present a defence or denial?). Persistent outing can bring demands to put them on trial for crimes from which, unlike the ringleaders, they can't distance themselves. This has been happening - ridiculously late - for some Nazi and collaborationist war criminals identified where they have later settled such as in the USA.
The criminals will undoubtedly use the excuse "I was obeying orders", "I was doing my duty", "We believed we were doing right" etc. Hogwash, rightly brushed aside when a tiny number of Nazi criminals were tried after the war.
A stronger focus on those who actually committed these crimes, with efforts to identify them and confirm the identifications being an organisational task open to those without state power, may get the criminals to inculpate those next up the ladder that leads finally to the Dick Cheneys and Donald Rumsfelds. More to the point, it can give pause to anyone thinking about committing the same crimes. Disgrace alone is a powerful weapon. Who'd want to date a torturer, or put one in charge of children?
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Posted by: samosamo on Dec 20, 2008 11:21 PM
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Posted by: Jonalist on Dec 21, 2008 4:57 AM
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Is this the way you want change to affect America and the world? Could you live with government right now or what is the problem you have with government. This is no game, do you wish a rules and requirements publication issued to each American citizen? Are you ready for New Government. It is reliable and as honest as it can be documented, there is no second best solution, the People of The United States Government are the benefactors. Since when could a citizen of America write a law? How long shall you wait to be heard, as a socialist intervention wouldn't it be nice to be able to video a presentation of your grievance and have it reviewed by government officials each week and placed on a agenda to endorse a law or change in government? Can government create a commission for endorsing a law which citizens compose? Only 90-days is the limitation to make up you mind after that everything will be documented and published, did you want to have the ability after 90-days to make changes or not, speak up.
The Kingdom, would be a eye awakening. Nations wishing to become a part of 'The Kingdom' would be given a priority and this sets aside Democracy which they may wish to be partialized in. What this means is that they do not endorse Democracy but that they will not oppose it either so it can exist in their nations governmental operations and there be no opposition against it existing.
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Posted by: tony12000 on Dec 21, 2008 8:35 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As much as I despise Bush's posse, I do believe the Left should embrace prosecutorial discretion. This allows prosecutors to decline to bring criminal charges in cases where justice might actually require that the law not strictly apply (e.g., women killing violent abusers, two teenagers having sex which constitutes statutory rape, person commits a crime but arrested only due to racial profiling, etc).
Finally, I agree that waterboarding MUST constitute torture under international and domestic law. Because the law is broadly stated, defendants could try to concoct a vagueness or qualified immunity argument. I hope it does not work. I wish Congress would re-pass legislation banning waterboarding when Obama gets in office. Bush vetoed such legislation earlier this year. But even if we can say that waterboarding is indisputably unconstitutional, nothing mandates prosecution under US law and Obama has not shown that he has the chutzpah to do something of this nature.
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Posted by: tony12000 on Dec 21, 2008 8:41 AM
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Posted by: PrinceRobert on Dec 21, 2008 8:41 AM
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Posted by: Longdream on Dec 21, 2008 8:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you think we're deteriorating a little bit here?
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Posted by: common intelligence on Dec 21, 2008 10:32 AM
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you'll all be so distracted ( the usual NeoCon tactic) by your worries and fears and distended bellies that prosecuting these scum will fall to the far back burner and a lid will be put on it.
In the passing of time Cheney will die of congestive heart falure, or a cerebrial stroke. There by he avoids the humility of guilty.
Bush will only circulate (if at all) through the likes of his NeoCon crowd selling his(s)tory and the media will promote it.
But if he goes into any public space/arena he will continuelly face angry crowds. Which will lead the bastard into a reclusive life where he will sulk in a state of confused denial and disbeleif until he takes his own life. That of which will be publicised as a heart failure too.
This is all unless the People Push for Prosecution relentlessly. Untill the truth is is brought back to the front burner of the stove.
(Of course by that time the United States will have ceased to be a country as it was originally intended and the nation will be a fully fledge Fascist Nation because Mashal Law will be the norm in order to control the hungry massses of zombies marching the streets caniballizing each other. That will be our karma)!
I'm being optomistic!
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» RE: You're all not hungry enough yet. But Karma will be paid!
Posted by: left_libertarian
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Posted by: opmoc on Dec 21, 2008 1:02 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Read This Book and You Will Realise The Situation is EVEN Worse than you thought possible
And Americans are the Biggest Victims
You actually EAT This Shit
And Read
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/a.pusztai/
About how Science has Been Completely Corrupted By These EVIL Arseholes
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Posted by: brian hayes on Dec 21, 2008 6:03 PM
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Posted by: zodiac12 on Dec 22, 2008 6:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Zodiac12
Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson
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Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson on Dec 24, 2008 10:12 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama refuses to hold Bush, Inc. accountable and investigate 911, illegal wars, and bailout. The media tell us we should think of it as "change" and not dwell on the past. Bush is saving the economy of the world (of course he is responsible for destroying it in the first place).
Clinton and the media said, let's "move on" regarding Bush, Sr. crimes of war Iraq and S&L bank bailouts.
Ford declared that we should "move forward" and forgot the Nixon and Reagan crimes for Iran Contra and murder of S. Americans and financial scandals. He even pardoned Nixon when Nixon was not impeached but resigned.
President Truman after the war wiped out the story of the robbery by Nazis and Roosevelt administration crimes of war and civilian genocide, etc. They say he didn't know about it but Prescott Bush (son George Herbert Bush-CIA head) did it behind his back. I read where one war criminal served about six weeks. Others fled to S. America (with their plunder) with the help of the Vatican, etc. One President removes the crimes and bad policy of the previous. Forget about it...it was the war to end all wars. Ya..like that happened!!
It should be called continuation of genocide, robbery, and lies from one administration to the other. All of them belong to the secret, behind the scenes World Order groups (Bilderburg Group, Council on Foreign Relations, and Trilateral Commission). They divide the world and power up between them without our knowledge or consent. That is not democracy. It violates the Logan Act.
People should read Lying for Empire, Economic Hit Man, The Conspirators by Al Martin, and the Rise of the 4th Reich by Marrs.
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Posted by: Zhu Bajie on Dec 25, 2008 12:41 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Zhu Bajie
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Posted by: gandolfshep on Dec 26, 2008 6:17 AM
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Jail Him. Bush and company.
They want a bail-out... let them pay for it, after all they got the money.
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Posted by: eztempo on Dec 26, 2008 5:56 PM
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After all, "'senior officials in the United States government solicited information on how to use aggressive techniques, redefined the law to create the appearance of their legality and authorized their use against detainees,' as Cohn points out. This included getting Justice Department blessings.
The opinion of the Justice Department does, in fact, take the place of clear statutory authorization when there's some question as to the meaning or applicability of the law. Otherwise, Mukasey's statement that there's no need for Bush to issue blanket pardons since they acted "...in the belief that he or she was doing something lawful" would have been hooted out of DC as fantastic.
Carl Levin's protest that you cannot legalize what's illegal by having a lawyer write an opinion will be rendered moot unless a Special Prosecutor finds reason to bring indictments against Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Rice, Tenet, Powell and Addington ... the 'conspirators' that met in the Vice President' office to direct the details of the torture program.
Cheney's not playing for a pardon -- he knows there's no need -- he's playing to set legal policy precedent.
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Posted by: eztempo on Dec 26, 2008 6:03 PM
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Posted by: nvannes on Dec 28, 2008 10:26 PM
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THERE CAN BE NO "LOOKING FORWARD" OR "MOVING AHEAD" OR ANY PARDONING WITHOUT FULL DISCLOSURE AND KNOWING EXACTLY THE FULL EXTENT OF ANY CRIMES COMMITTED.
PASS THIS ON TO YOUR REPRESENTATIVES. TELL THEM HOW YOU FEEL AND HOW YOU EXPECT THEM TO REPRESENT YOU ON THIS MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE.
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Posted by: EinMD on Dec 20, 2008 1:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2. He's hoping that if he asserts his dominance enough no one will doubt him and begin prosecution.
3. The "Hague Invasion Act" aka American Service members' Protection Act states that we will use any means necessary against any country that attempts to hold anyone responsible for war crimes.
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» RE: Three reasons: Spineless Gutless Cowardly Democrats
Posted by: left_libertarian
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Posted by: talkville on Dec 20, 2008 1:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hitler: Cheney and he would have gotten along admirably; Adolf would have swooned maybe.
Nietzsche: One might have heard him laughing a block away! A slave Hero!!
Lenin: made a note to include him perhaps in those polemics about 'infantile conditions'.
Mussolini: A great friend, a great advisor.
Bismark: Who?
Napoleon: "OK, he can be invited to the coronation".
Stalin: Brilliant! Admirable! Great! (Make note: kill him.)
Cheney: "So?"
One thing seems sure though: he practices well what very few know he preaches. Like Albright and the rest of them, any blood, guts, torn limbs, men, women, children left in this historical plane of Immanence is "worth it". No regrets.
What single organizing principle might have driven him through all this though? Anger? Revenge? Righteousness? Resentment?
Who knows? Like an Arendt Himmler, here's a person at the same time banal and endlessly the object of endless deductions.
Smirking his way to a comfy retirement and some warm hugs and toddies with family and friends.
Actual, particular, evidence and example of dead living. Not so much Cheney commits Crime as: Crime commits Cheney.
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» RE: A psychotic sociopathic narcisist
Posted by: sasquuatch55
» RE: A psychotic sociopathic narcisist
Posted by: bobtr900
» RE: Nietzsche wouldn't be laughing
Posted by: greenknight
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Posted by: hankgeorge on Dec 20, 2008 3:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Hank George
Posted by: jbpazz
» RE: mount a class action suit in any number of European cities
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Hank George
Posted by: aussidawg
» PRECISELY
Posted by: charlieparisek
» RE: Hank George
Posted by: Revolutionary (Direct) Democracy
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Posted by: Suzon on Dec 20, 2008 3:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is there an assumption here that Cheney and his co-conspirators actually grasp the reality of torture? If they knew what they were doing, how could they actually proceed?
However, the law does recognize recklessness--that people would have known or should have known that their actions would bring about human suffering.
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» RE: Barney Frank said of Newt Gingrich, he doesn't have ideas. He has ideas of how nice
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: What happened to the bowling alley?
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: warrior woman on Dec 20, 2008 3:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the Obama administration (as Clinton's did before with the Iran/Contra scandal) does not prosecute, this shows America and the world that American leaders are not subject to our laws, rather they are above them. It is not that it should be so, it is reality, however.
They could "arrest" them and hold them in detention until such time they get around to advising them of their crimes, allowing them access to attorney's and perhaps showing them or the lawyers the evidence against them as the Bush administration has shown suspected terrorists under the Military Commissions Act. The likelihood is they won't.
Perhaps they could start with an investigation of 9/11. I ask one question in that regard: what is the mathematical probability of 3 buildings perfectly imploding when 2 are struck by airplanes and the 3rd is not? All being built to sustain impacts from airplanes and having, in fact, survived previous attempts.
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» RE: Judge them not that they have morals like us, they do not
Posted by: pcushniesr
» RE: Judge them not that they have morals like us, they do not
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Judge them not that they have morals like us, they do not
Posted by: ajathiel
» RE: Judge them not that they have morals like us, they do not
Posted by: aussidawg
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Posted by: miz on Dec 20, 2008 4:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: mz anony
Posted by: rimchamp77
» RE: mz anony
Posted by: kungfuma
» RE: mz anony
Posted by: lenioui
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Posted by: Michel on Dec 20, 2008 4:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lt. Gen. Antonio Taguba, who investigated the Abu Ghraib scandal, said, "There is no longer any doubt as to whether the current administration has committed war crimes. The only question that remains to be answered is whether those who ordered the use of torture will be held to account."
In my mind there is no question. Bush and Cheney willfully changed the language of the law to make it legal for them to do something that in the past we have put people to death for.
Torture is wrong. It is illegal and immoral. They should not be given a pass on this one.
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» RE: APPOINT AND PROSECUTE
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: APPOINT AND PROSECUTE
Posted by: Michel
» RE: This is the pattern
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: This is the pattern
Posted by: Michel
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Dec 20, 2008 4:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't close Gitmo, just release the current prisoners so the REAL criminals can be Housed for indefinite periods (whenever we FEEL like getting around to Prosecuting them).
Get DICK is own Board, and automatic 'Flash Dance' shower...Feel the 'Surge'?
Theres men claim they allowed this to save lives.They have jeporadized and allowed the slaughter of thousands if not millions of people...I think they Qualify for their own Standards of War Criminal Treatment.
Just make sure DICKs Batteries are in good working order, we wouldn't want his Pace Maker to Stop, In fact lets insert a back up just to assure DICK sticks around long enough to have some fun.
Lest We forget that Cheney's "So" was a confession that the did NOT work for US..Thus Treason. And since 'Blood for Oil' has been a common phrase.. Add Crimes Against Humanity to this Oilman list of High Crimes.
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» RE: Grand father in "laws" and Methods
Posted by: Michel
» RE: it is a sacred honor to speak out against it
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Grand father in "laws" and Methods
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Grand father in "laws" and Methods
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: Longdream on Dec 20, 2008 5:12 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To do so would tie up Congress and the Justice Department for years, and siphon the nation's attention from where it belongs: correcting the aftermath of the Bush regime, and helping people who have been damaged in its wake.
If you don't remember Watergate, then do you remember Lewinsky, the blue dress, the big blue book of porn with the transcript of testimony, the cigar? Do you remember Ken Star's smirk, and the fact that Congress couldn't pass wind for the years that it all went on?
It's not that these criminals don't deserve prosecution. They're even worse criminals for taking advantage of the situation by openly admitting, even flaunting, their misdeeds. They also are world-famous for defying the law, refusing subpoenas, fleeing in the face of indictment and generally thumbing their noses at enforcement. Bringing them to any kind of justice would take three times as long as it would for normal felons.
All of this is weak and piss-poor, I know. But I think it's the situation we're facing, and I know they're laughing in our faces because of it.
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» RE: It's even worse than all that.
Posted by: javajoe
» RE: It's even worse than all that.
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: It's even worse than all that.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: It's even worse than all that.
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: It's even worse than all that.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: It's even worse than all that.
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Pessimism....
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: why bother with justice
Posted by: sonofloud
» RE: Patrick Fitzgerald
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Patrick Fitzgerald
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Patrick Fitzgerald
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Patrick Fitzgerald
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Patrick Fitzgerald
Posted by: Julian
» RE: It's even worse than all that. - BS
Posted by: left_libertarian
» However long it takes. Money is No objetc (Hense the Bailout!)
Posted by: common intelligence
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Posted by: phindrup on Dec 20, 2008 5:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While there is no doubt that for the immediate future there is little chance of outside repercussions, as the coming depression engulfs the world and the US sinks into the bottomless financial pit other countries will increasingly be in a position to apply pressure re the myriad wrongs committed by the US over the years. Eventually the imperative of survival will far outweigh the US’s blind pride and belief that none of their presidents ought ever face a war crimes tribunal.
‘American’s’ cannot expect sympathy from any country anywhere in the world. For too long the US threw its weight around ruthlessly gutting other countries economies for its own benefit.
Memories of such treatment lingers long, and anything that can be used to demean and belittle the US, will be used.
The wheel is turning, already beyond top dead centre and as the US fades into obscurity all of those who suffered from the brutality, the overweening arrogance will demand the right to give yet another turn of the screw.
The people of the US have no one the blame but themselves.
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» RE: Prosecute or else, it is an easy choice
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: lightinmyhands on Dec 20, 2008 5:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Fascism
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Fascism
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Of course Obama IS going to prosecute the war criminals
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Fascism
Posted by: tony12000
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Posted by: surfreality on Dec 20, 2008 5:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Torture has always been a policy based on fear. In fact, it can be credibly argued that the entire American foriegn policy of the last 8 years has been based on fear. Fear begets more fear which results in more violence. Al Qaeda understands this and hence is always attempting to provoke us into further savagery. This is how Al Qaeda recruits. As long as America holds to this approach Al Qaeda gains strength and America becomes a more desirable target.
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» RE: The Bush argument for torture:
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: Lauren on Dec 20, 2008 7:33 AM
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Posted by: johnorford on Dec 20, 2008 6:00 PM
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Posted by: 2dogarage on Dec 20, 2008 6:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To some of us 9/11 was an extreme case of the power to get people to suspend their disbelief in the name of patriotism. Heck, the laws of physics were changed for the "official" conspiracy theory, what does he have to fear?
This administration lied to the American people to justify invading Iraq, picked up citizens of sovereign countries on their own soil and held them indefinitely while torturing them in clear violation of international law, withheld documents requested by subpoena...the list goes on ad nauseam, no-bid contracts for Halliburton etc. I say again, what does he have to fear? The American people? The Democrats in Congress? Don't make me get milk all over my computer screen.
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» RE: Truth hiding in plain sight
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Truth hiding in plain sight
Posted by: weathered
» RE: Truth hiding in plain sight
Posted by: ajathiel
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Posted by: douglashoyt on Dec 20, 2008 7:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Failure to prosecute any administration for crimes of any sort sets an example of contempt for the laws.
This lack of holding criminal behavior responsible started long ago with the lack of prosecution of Richard M. Nixon.
Merry Christmas
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» RE: Failure to prosecute sets an example of contempt for the laws.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Here is an understatement,
Posted by: weathered
» RE: Here is an understatement,
Posted by: bluepilgrim
» RE: Here is an understatement,
Posted by: gary_7vn
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Dec 20, 2008 7:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Barry, my bruddah.
Posted by: Longdream
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Posted by: sonofloud on Dec 20, 2008 7:26 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nancy "impeachment is off the table" Pelosi?
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» RE: Impeachment is off the table.
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Impeachment is off the table.
Posted by: sonofloud
» RE: Speak English?
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Impeachment is off the table.
Posted by: Julian
» RE: Impeachment is off the table.
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Because he has nothing to fear, who's going to impeach
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: JSquercia on Dec 20, 2008 8:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Turn them over to the Hague?
Posted by: johnorford
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Posted by: QQOblivion on Dec 20, 2008 8:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To the right-wingers and so-called moderates, the REAL criminal was Bill Clinton.
I'm not kidding, this is what most Americans really believe.
The call for prosecution of war-crimes not only has to pass through the gauntlet of presidential pardons and Democratic politicians' inaction, but it also has to pass through the gauntlet of indifference from the American people, from the US "liberal" media, and especially from almost all of America's leaders too.
I don't know how to make the idea of justice mainstream and not just some way-out there hippy pinko concept, but maybe someone else does know how.
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Posted by: GregH on Dec 20, 2008 9:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe the Europeans will try them all in absentia
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Posted by: Don Quixote on Dec 20, 2008 9:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Don Quixote
Posted by: weathered
» RE: Yes!
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Yes!
Posted by: weathered
» tell it.
Posted by: babka
» RE: Don Quixote
Posted by: tony12000
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Posted by: logansafi on Dec 20, 2008 9:38 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: EvilPoet on Dec 20, 2008 9:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: babka on Dec 20, 2008 10:40 AM
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» RE: Yes.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Posted by: weathered
» Where's the body and plane?
Posted by: common intelligence
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Posted by: GuitarBill on Dec 20, 2008 11:35 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yoo anticipated that the Bush administration's torture policy and his own memorandums might lead to prosecution. Yoo composed one legal memorandum which addressed this specific issue. The memorandum defined a legal strategy for criminal defense for hypothetical U.S. government defendants against hypothetical charges of crimes of torture and crimes against humanity.
In other words, Cheney is using Yoo's opinion as "law". [Golly, where have we seen this before? NRA anyone?]
Cheney literally believes that John Yoo's silly opinion will shield him from war crimes prosecution.
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» RE: Why Was Cheney So Quick to Admit He's a War Criminal?
Posted by: sheena2u
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Posted by: opmoc on Dec 20, 2008 11:40 AM
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Dec 20, 2008 12:13 PM
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CITIZEN'S ARREST APPLIES TO ALL CRIMINALS.
He confessed,all we need to do is DO IT!!
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» RE: Two little words:
Posted by: oregoncharles
» dept. of none dare call it treason
Posted by: babka
» "Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Posted by: babka
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Posted by: willymack on Dec 20, 2008 12:24 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: What words can describe
Posted by: Lauren
» No willymack
Posted by: johnorford
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Posted by: biwee on Dec 20, 2008 1:08 PM
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Posted by: scottfree on Dec 20, 2008 1:48 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Law Student409 on Dec 20, 2008 3:24 PM
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» RE: I think he will skate
Posted by: willymack
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Posted by: Annapurna1 on Dec 20, 2008 3:53 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the majority isnt always right to be sure..and in this case i fully agree that bu$hco should be charged with war crimes violations...but that would be political suicide when 59% of the voters are on bu$cos' side...
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Posted by: Watercolors on Dec 20, 2008 5:17 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Julian on Dec 20, 2008 8:18 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The legal stratagem always exploited by ringleaders' lawyers, when they have exhausted the irrelevant jurisdictional arguments, is the denial of a chain leading from the defendants to the deeds.
The answer is maybe to remember that first responsibility for a crime belongs to the mongrel who actually commits it. Somebody tortured those prisoners. Somebody bundled other captives into planes bound for foreign torture centres. These creatures need outing on a permanent basis (how about a Crimewatch website which also offers them space to present a defence or denial?). Persistent outing can bring demands to put them on trial for crimes from which, unlike the ringleaders, they can't distance themselves. This has been happening - ridiculously late - for some Nazi and collaborationist war criminals identified where they have later settled such as in the USA.
The criminals will undoubtedly use the excuse "I was obeying orders", "I was doing my duty", "We believed we were doing right" etc. Hogwash, rightly brushed aside when a tiny number of Nazi criminals were tried after the war.
A stronger focus on those who actually committed these crimes, with efforts to identify them and confirm the identifications being an organisational task open to those without state power, may get the criminals to inculpate those next up the ladder that leads finally to the Dick Cheneys and Donald Rumsfelds. More to the point, it can give pause to anyone thinking about committing the same crimes. Disgrace alone is a powerful weapon. Who'd want to date a torturer, or put one in charge of children?
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Posted by: samosamo on Dec 20, 2008 11:21 PM
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Posted by: Jonalist on Dec 21, 2008 4:57 AM
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Is this the way you want change to affect America and the world? Could you live with government right now or what is the problem you have with government. This is no game, do you wish a rules and requirements publication issued to each American citizen? Are you ready for New Government. It is reliable and as honest as it can be documented, there is no second best solution, the People of The United States Government are the benefactors. Since when could a citizen of America write a law? How long shall you wait to be heard, as a socialist intervention wouldn't it be nice to be able to video a presentation of your grievance and have it reviewed by government officials each week and placed on a agenda to endorse a law or change in government? Can government create a commission for endorsing a law which citizens compose? Only 90-days is the limitation to make up you mind after that everything will be documented and published, did you want to have the ability after 90-days to make changes or not, speak up.
The Kingdom, would be a eye awakening. Nations wishing to become a part of 'The Kingdom' would be given a priority and this sets aside Democracy which they may wish to be partialized in. What this means is that they do not endorse Democracy but that they will not oppose it either so it can exist in their nations governmental operations and there be no opposition against it existing.
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Posted by: tony12000 on Dec 21, 2008 8:35 AM
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As much as I despise Bush's posse, I do believe the Left should embrace prosecutorial discretion. This allows prosecutors to decline to bring criminal charges in cases where justice might actually require that the law not strictly apply (e.g., women killing violent abusers, two teenagers having sex which constitutes statutory rape, person commits a crime but arrested only due to racial profiling, etc).
Finally, I agree that waterboarding MUST constitute torture under international and domestic law. Because the law is broadly stated, defendants could try to concoct a vagueness or qualified immunity argument. I hope it does not work. I wish Congress would re-pass legislation banning waterboarding when Obama gets in office. Bush vetoed such legislation earlier this year. But even if we can say that waterboarding is indisputably unconstitutional, nothing mandates prosecution under US law and Obama has not shown that he has the chutzpah to do something of this nature.
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Posted by: tony12000 on Dec 21, 2008 8:41 AM
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Posted by: PrinceRobert on Dec 21, 2008 8:41 AM
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Posted by: Longdream on Dec 21, 2008 8:50 AM
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Do you think we're deteriorating a little bit here?
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Posted by: common intelligence on Dec 21, 2008 10:32 AM
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you'll all be so distracted ( the usual NeoCon tactic) by your worries and fears and distended bellies that prosecuting these scum will fall to the far back burner and a lid will be put on it.
In the passing of time Cheney will die of congestive heart falure, or a cerebrial stroke. There by he avoids the humility of guilty.
Bush will only circulate (if at all) through the likes of his NeoCon crowd selling his(s)tory and the media will promote it.
But if he goes into any public space/arena he will continuelly face angry crowds. Which will lead the bastard into a reclusive life where he will sulk in a state of confused denial and disbeleif until he takes his own life. That of which will be publicised as a heart failure too.
This is all unless the People Push for Prosecution relentlessly. Untill the truth is is brought back to the front burner of the stove.
(Of course by that time the United States will have ceased to be a country as it was originally intended and the nation will be a fully fledge Fascist Nation because Mashal Law will be the norm in order to control the hungry massses of zombies marching the streets caniballizing each other. That will be our karma)!
I'm being optomistic!
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» RE: You're all not hungry enough yet. But Karma will be paid!
Posted by: left_libertarian
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Posted by: opmoc on Dec 21, 2008 1:02 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Read This Book and You Will Realise The Situation is EVEN Worse than you thought possible
And Americans are the Biggest Victims
You actually EAT This Shit
And Read
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/a.pusztai/
About how Science has Been Completely Corrupted By These EVIL Arseholes
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Posted by: brian hayes on Dec 21, 2008 6:03 PM
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Posted by: zodiac12 on Dec 22, 2008 6:07 AM
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» RE: Zodiac12
Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson
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Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson on Dec 24, 2008 10:12 PM
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Obama refuses to hold Bush, Inc. accountable and investigate 911, illegal wars, and bailout. The media tell us we should think of it as "change" and not dwell on the past. Bush is saving the economy of the world (of course he is responsible for destroying it in the first place).
Clinton and the media said, let's "move on" regarding Bush, Sr. crimes of war Iraq and S&L bank bailouts.
Ford declared that we should "move forward" and forgot the Nixon and Reagan crimes for Iran Contra and murder of S. Americans and financial scandals. He even pardoned Nixon when Nixon was not impeached but resigned.
President Truman after the war wiped out the story of the robbery by Nazis and Roosevelt administration crimes of war and civilian genocide, etc. They say he didn't know about it but Prescott Bush (son George Herbert Bush-CIA head) did it behind his back. I read where one war criminal served about six weeks. Others fled to S. America (with their plunder) with the help of the Vatican, etc. One President removes the crimes and bad policy of the previous. Forget about it...it was the war to end all wars. Ya..like that happened!!
It should be called continuation of genocide, robbery, and lies from one administration to the other. All of them belong to the secret, behind the scenes World Order groups (Bilderburg Group, Council on Foreign Relations, and Trilateral Commission). They divide the world and power up between them without our knowledge or consent. That is not democracy. It violates the Logan Act.
People should read Lying for Empire, Economic Hit Man, The Conspirators by Al Martin, and the Rise of the 4th Reich by Marrs.
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Posted by: Zhu Bajie on Dec 25, 2008 12:41 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Zhu Bajie
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Posted by: gandolfshep on Dec 26, 2008 6:17 AM
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Jail Him. Bush and company.
They want a bail-out... let them pay for it, after all they got the money.
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Posted by: eztempo on Dec 26, 2008 5:56 PM
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After all, "'senior officials in the United States government solicited information on how to use aggressive techniques, redefined the law to create the appearance of their legality and authorized their use against detainees,' as Cohn points out. This included getting Justice Department blessings.
The opinion of the Justice Department does, in fact, take the place of clear statutory authorization when there's some question as to the meaning or applicability of the law. Otherwise, Mukasey's statement that there's no need for Bush to issue blanket pardons since they acted "...in the belief that he or she was doing something lawful" would have been hooted out of DC as fantastic.
Carl Levin's protest that you cannot legalize what's illegal by having a lawyer write an opinion will be rendered moot unless a Special Prosecutor finds reason to bring indictments against Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Rice, Tenet, Powell and Addington ... the 'conspirators' that met in the Vice President' office to direct the details of the torture program.
Cheney's not playing for a pardon -- he knows there's no need -- he's playing to set legal policy precedent.
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Posted by: eztempo on Dec 26, 2008 6:03 PM
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Posted by: nvannes on Dec 28, 2008 10:26 PM
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THERE CAN BE NO "LOOKING FORWARD" OR "MOVING AHEAD" OR ANY PARDONING WITHOUT FULL DISCLOSURE AND KNOWING EXACTLY THE FULL EXTENT OF ANY CRIMES COMMITTED.
PASS THIS ON TO YOUR REPRESENTATIVES. TELL THEM HOW YOU FEEL AND HOW YOU EXPECT THEM TO REPRESENT YOU ON THIS MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE.
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