COMMENTS: 43
A History of Music Torture in the War on Terror
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There's an ambiguous undercurrent to the catchy pop smash that introduced a pig-tailed Britney Spears to the world in 1999 -- so much so that Jive Records changed the song's title to "… Baby One More Time" after executives feared that it would be perceived as condoning domestic violence.
It's a safe bet, however, that neither Britney nor songwriter Max Martin ever anticipated that this undercurrent would be picked up on by U.S. military personnel, when they were ordered to keep prisoners awake by blasting earsplitting music at them -- for days, weeks or even months on end -- at prisons in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantánamo Bay.
The message, as released Guantánamo prisoner Ruhal Ahmed explained in an interview earlier this year, was less significant than the relentless, inescapable noise. Describing how he experienced music torture on many occasions, Ahmed said, "I can bear being beaten up, it's not a problem. Once you accept that you're going to go into the interrogation room and be beaten up, it's fine. You can prepare yourself mentally. But when you're being psychologically tortured, you can't." He added, however, that "from the end of 2003 they introduced the music, and it became even worse. Before that, you could try and focus on something else. It makes you feel like you are going mad. You lose the plot, and it's very scary to think that you might go crazy because of all the music, because of the loud noise, and because after a while you don't hear the lyrics at all, all you hear is heavy banging."
Despite this, the soldiers, who were largely left to their own devices when choosing what to play, frequently selected songs with blunt messages -- "Fuck Your God" by Deicide, for example, which is actually an anti-Christian rant, but one whose title would presumably cause consternation to believers in any religion -- even though, for prisoners not used to Western rock and rap music, the music itself was enough to cause them serious distress. When CIA operatives spoke to ABC News in November 2005, as part of a groundbreaking report into the use of waterboarding and other torture techniques on "high-value detainees" held in secret prisons, they reported that, when prisoners were forced to listen to Eminem's Slim Shady album, "The music was so foreign to them it made them frantic." And in May 2003, when the story broke that music was being used by U.S. psyops teams in Iraq, Sgt. Mark Hadsell, whose favored songs were said to be "Bodies" by Drowning Pool and "Enter the Sandman" by Metallica, told Newsweek, "These people haven't heard heavy metal. They can't take it."
Approval for the Use of Music Torture in the War on Terror
Depending on people's musical tastes, responses to reports that music has been used to torture prisoners often produces flippant comments along the lines of, "If I had to listen to David Gray's ‘Babylon'/the theme tune from Barney (the purple dinosaur)/Christina Aguilera, I'd be crying ‘torture' too." But the truth, sadly, is far darker, as Hadsell explained after noting that prisoners in Iraq had a problem with heavy metal music.
"If you play it for 24 hours," Hadsell said, "your brain and body functions start to slide, your train of thought slows down, and your will is broken. That's when we come in and talk to them."
Hadsell, like senior figures in the administration, was blithely unconcerned that "breaking" prisoners, rather than finding ways of encouraging them to cooperate, was not to best way to secure information that was in any way reliable, but the psyops teams were not alone. In September 2003, Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, the U.S. military commander in Iraq, approved the use of music as part of a package of measures for use on captured prisoners "to create fear, disorient … and prolong capture shock," and as is spelled out in an explosive new report by the Senate Armed Services Committee into the torture and abuse of prisoners in U.S. custody (PDF), the use of music was an essential part of the reverse engineering of techniques, known as survival, evasion, resistance, escape (SERE), which are taught in U.S. military schools to train personnel to resist interrogation. The report explains:
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Posted by: brunowe on Dec 17, 2008 12:51 AM
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» RE: At least one judge-small boys testicles
Posted by: compu
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Posted by: talkville on Dec 17, 2008 1:43 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In certain quarters this has been well known for a long, long, long time. In fact, it could be called a Traditional Knowledge, much of which is still even today held quite closely by certain Custodians and such in different places.
But physical torture is most definitely not "no big deal", something one "can be prepared about". It's still torture. There is no reason anyone should need to even consider "being prepared" for, or somehow "train for" being tortured.
Material or moral; it is well established that torture is possible, regardless of whether or not it produces anything useful for the consumption of the Torturer and his or her Superiors.
What might a free man, alongside other free men think or do about such a question, I wonder? Would a free man have any reason to torture, I wonder?
In any case, I think that torturing is a long-standing and traditional practice of gradually improved, refined and polished Animals. We are not yet in the world of Men.
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» RE: I'm with Nietzsche on this.
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: I'm with Nietzsche on this.
Posted by: talkville
» RE: I'm with Nietzsche on this.
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: I'm with Nietzsche on this.
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: I'm with Nietzsche on this.
Posted by: talkville
» RE: I'm with Nietzsche on this.
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: I'm with Nietzsche on this.
Posted by: Daer Mi
» RE: I'm with Nietzsche on this.
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: I'm with Nietzsche on this.
Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: I'm with Nietzsche on this.
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: I'm with Nietzsche on this.
Posted by: talkville
» Read "Bush on the Couch"- Bush is an ANAL SADIST
Posted by: texasrodeoqueen
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Anthhh on Dec 17, 2008 3:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am old
I would rather be physically tortured by the D.O.D. DIDDLERS (man to man) than to have them diddling with my mind and spirituality through mental abuse.
I pray that this year, and for as long as it takes, the innnocent kidnapped abductees can stay safe from torture.
I pray that, with the help of the world, the invaded nations of Iraq and Afghanistan can somehow find what it takes to fight back AND REVERSE the mission of the U-S-of-Aggression. Since these victims WHO DID NOTHING are humans just like us, and will forever be totally innocent. Especially of anything worthy of being destroyed, abducted, tortured, killed.
Humankind is not even safe until there is a REVERSAL of that invasion. because GREED is ADDICTIVE, and it will NOT STOP. It takes until nothing else can be taken.
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» The Gang Of Phascists has been torturing and terrorizing US too
Posted by: texasrodeoqueen
» RE: The Gang Of Phascists has been torturing and terrorizing US too
Posted by: Anthhh
Comments are closed-
Posted by: orwellturns on Dec 17, 2008 7:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think it was Winston Churchhill that said, "I got the best information I wanted from a Japanese commander while sharing a good cigar and some of my best brandy". (Something like that anyway)
WHAT A HORRIBLE DARK AND SHAMEFUL PERIOD OF OUR HISTORY.
Some people need to be held accountable. Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld are ghouls.
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» you have a better way?
Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» He already mentioned it...
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: you have a better way? anything would be better
Posted by: DCostello2
» History proves that a govt that tortures and kills "them" will soon be torturing US
Posted by: texasrodeoqueen
Comments are closed-
Posted by: littlepitcher on Dec 17, 2008 7:35 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Having been exposed to up to three radios at a time blaring country music 8 hours a day, I can testify that forced music erodes cognitive capacity.
My personal opinion is that the Gitmo bunch should be subject to the same pain as 9/11 burn survivors, but using music for torture sets a bad precedent and opens the way to mind-f***ks by muzak from unethical bosses or department stores.
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Posted by: manderson on Dec 17, 2008 7:45 AM
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Posted by: US Citizen 07 on Dec 17, 2008 8:34 AM
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But being fair, all governments can be, ours just happens to have the biggest club at the moment, and I'm NOT very proud of that.
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Posted by: Ignatz deFyre on Dec 17, 2008 9:05 AM
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Posted by: Ignatz deFyre on Dec 17, 2008 9:08 AM
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A profit opportunity for BMI and the like!
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» RE: Actually.
Posted by: US Citizen 07
Comments are closed-
Posted by: monkeywrench on Dec 17, 2008 9:26 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeah, and with rap "music," it doesn't take all that long – about 20 minutes should do it. Also, judging by the "tough guy" persona and "mo-fo" attitude infecting much of our culture, rap is very efficient at promoting the "in-your-face" threats and violence from which it sprang.
(In the major city in which I live, it's not just gangbangers that will attack over just a look; these days it's damned near any male under 25!)
Beyond the torture of prisoners, we have developed, through the hyper-aggressive promotion of rap, a way to perform a sort of market-forces Skinnerian Behavior Modification upon much of our young –– and the results ain't pretty, dog.
For those of us who actually LISTEN to music, the relentless simple-simon rhythms, endlessly hammering over-cranked bass, and violent, ignorant lyrics blasting from every third car at 100+ decibels IS torture.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Music torture works on us, too.
Posted by: Ignatz deFyre
Comments are closed-
Posted by: madmac10 on Dec 17, 2008 10:08 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://madmacmusic.blogspot.com/2006_08_06_archive.html
Sadly, there is very little more information in this article--especially regarding the steps artists have taken to stop their artistic creations from being hijacked by kleptocrats.
Is that what makes us so complacent? Are we so used to plutocracy now that we just roll over and crimp our eyes (not our ears tho!) C'mon, people! This is our culture that they are stealing to debase in such a disgusting manner.
Imagine... you mail back the CD that contains the music that's been perverted into a torture device. Tell the artist that you will boycott that music until steps are taken to stop this abhorrent practice. I've already mailed back the only Metalica (sic) album I ever owned (that whole Napster imbroglio is another story... it doesn't surprise me that those pricks just want their royalties from the government.)
Artists have more sway than they are letting on with their piss-ant hand-wringing. Their management can send out cease-and-desist letters to the government. They need to take this insult to the courts! Pressure them now! Please!
This issue is a sign that things have gotten as bad as they can get. I cannot emphasize this enough. Annexing our culture like this means that they have nothing but the basest contempt for humanity, and I REFUSE to be a part of that.
Do it!
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Posted by: 876 on Dec 17, 2008 10:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This about a country founded on genocide and slavery which has destroyed nations all over the globe for over fifty years.
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Dec 17, 2008 1:02 PM
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My mother insisted that I was destroying my hearing and corrupting my mind with the devil's music. But as it turns out, I was immunizing my senses, should I ever get caught in Big Brother's net 20 years later...Teenagers really are smarter than we give them credit for.
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Posted by: myersqi on Dec 17, 2008 1:54 PM
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» RE: Put Bush in jail.
Posted by: oldurn
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Posted by: bobdown on Dec 17, 2008 5:02 PM
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Posted by: whealeydj on Dec 17, 2008 6:54 PM
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Posted by: Tim V on Dec 18, 2008 6:56 AM
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A strong case can be made that psychological torture is generally worse than physical torture: In an Amnesty International report I read several years ago, a political prisoner reported savage beatings at the hands of his interrogators. He then said that it was far worse for him when they inflicted the same physical abuse on his fellow captives and made it look like it was his fault.
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Posted by: Gaubladt on Dec 19, 2008 10:33 AM
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Posted by: AlexLawyer on Dec 21, 2008 12:41 AM
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Posted by: christianslayer1955 on Dec 21, 2008 5:43 AM
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Posted by: brunowe on Dec 17, 2008 12:51 AM
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» RE: At least one judge-small boys testicles
Posted by: compu
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Posted by: talkville on Dec 17, 2008 1:43 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In certain quarters this has been well known for a long, long, long time. In fact, it could be called a Traditional Knowledge, much of which is still even today held quite closely by certain Custodians and such in different places.
But physical torture is most definitely not "no big deal", something one "can be prepared about". It's still torture. There is no reason anyone should need to even consider "being prepared" for, or somehow "train for" being tortured.
Material or moral; it is well established that torture is possible, regardless of whether or not it produces anything useful for the consumption of the Torturer and his or her Superiors.
What might a free man, alongside other free men think or do about such a question, I wonder? Would a free man have any reason to torture, I wonder?
In any case, I think that torturing is a long-standing and traditional practice of gradually improved, refined and polished Animals. We are not yet in the world of Men.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: I'm with Nietzsche on this.
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: I'm with Nietzsche on this.
Posted by: talkville
» RE: I'm with Nietzsche on this.
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: I'm with Nietzsche on this.
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: I'm with Nietzsche on this.
Posted by: talkville
» RE: I'm with Nietzsche on this.
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: I'm with Nietzsche on this.
Posted by: Daer Mi
» RE: I'm with Nietzsche on this.
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: I'm with Nietzsche on this.
Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: I'm with Nietzsche on this.
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: I'm with Nietzsche on this.
Posted by: talkville
» Read "Bush on the Couch"- Bush is an ANAL SADIST
Posted by: texasrodeoqueen
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Anthhh on Dec 17, 2008 3:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am old
I would rather be physically tortured by the D.O.D. DIDDLERS (man to man) than to have them diddling with my mind and spirituality through mental abuse.
I pray that this year, and for as long as it takes, the innnocent kidnapped abductees can stay safe from torture.
I pray that, with the help of the world, the invaded nations of Iraq and Afghanistan can somehow find what it takes to fight back AND REVERSE the mission of the U-S-of-Aggression. Since these victims WHO DID NOTHING are humans just like us, and will forever be totally innocent. Especially of anything worthy of being destroyed, abducted, tortured, killed.
Humankind is not even safe until there is a REVERSAL of that invasion. because GREED is ADDICTIVE, and it will NOT STOP. It takes until nothing else can be taken.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» The Gang Of Phascists has been torturing and terrorizing US too
Posted by: texasrodeoqueen
» RE: The Gang Of Phascists has been torturing and terrorizing US too
Posted by: Anthhh
Comments are closed-
Posted by: orwellturns on Dec 17, 2008 7:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think it was Winston Churchhill that said, "I got the best information I wanted from a Japanese commander while sharing a good cigar and some of my best brandy". (Something like that anyway)
WHAT A HORRIBLE DARK AND SHAMEFUL PERIOD OF OUR HISTORY.
Some people need to be held accountable. Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld are ghouls.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» you have a better way?
Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» He already mentioned it...
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: you have a better way? anything would be better
Posted by: DCostello2
» History proves that a govt that tortures and kills "them" will soon be torturing US
Posted by: texasrodeoqueen
Comments are closed-
Posted by: littlepitcher on Dec 17, 2008 7:35 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Having been exposed to up to three radios at a time blaring country music 8 hours a day, I can testify that forced music erodes cognitive capacity.
My personal opinion is that the Gitmo bunch should be subject to the same pain as 9/11 burn survivors, but using music for torture sets a bad precedent and opens the way to mind-f***ks by muzak from unethical bosses or department stores.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: manderson on Dec 17, 2008 7:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: US Citizen 07 on Dec 17, 2008 8:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But being fair, all governments can be, ours just happens to have the biggest club at the moment, and I'm NOT very proud of that.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ignatz deFyre on Dec 17, 2008 9:05 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ignatz deFyre on Dec 17, 2008 9:08 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A profit opportunity for BMI and the like!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Actually.
Posted by: US Citizen 07
Comments are closed-
Posted by: monkeywrench on Dec 17, 2008 9:26 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeah, and with rap "music," it doesn't take all that long – about 20 minutes should do it. Also, judging by the "tough guy" persona and "mo-fo" attitude infecting much of our culture, rap is very efficient at promoting the "in-your-face" threats and violence from which it sprang.
(In the major city in which I live, it's not just gangbangers that will attack over just a look; these days it's damned near any male under 25!)
Beyond the torture of prisoners, we have developed, through the hyper-aggressive promotion of rap, a way to perform a sort of market-forces Skinnerian Behavior Modification upon much of our young –– and the results ain't pretty, dog.
For those of us who actually LISTEN to music, the relentless simple-simon rhythms, endlessly hammering over-cranked bass, and violent, ignorant lyrics blasting from every third car at 100+ decibels IS torture.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Music torture works on us, too.
Posted by: Ignatz deFyre
Comments are closed-
Posted by: madmac10 on Dec 17, 2008 10:08 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://madmacmusic.blogspot.com/2006_08_06_archive.html
Sadly, there is very little more information in this article--especially regarding the steps artists have taken to stop their artistic creations from being hijacked by kleptocrats.
Is that what makes us so complacent? Are we so used to plutocracy now that we just roll over and crimp our eyes (not our ears tho!) C'mon, people! This is our culture that they are stealing to debase in such a disgusting manner.
Imagine... you mail back the CD that contains the music that's been perverted into a torture device. Tell the artist that you will boycott that music until steps are taken to stop this abhorrent practice. I've already mailed back the only Metalica (sic) album I ever owned (that whole Napster imbroglio is another story... it doesn't surprise me that those pricks just want their royalties from the government.)
Artists have more sway than they are letting on with their piss-ant hand-wringing. Their management can send out cease-and-desist letters to the government. They need to take this insult to the courts! Pressure them now! Please!
This issue is a sign that things have gotten as bad as they can get. I cannot emphasize this enough. Annexing our culture like this means that they have nothing but the basest contempt for humanity, and I REFUSE to be a part of that.
Do it!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: 876 on Dec 17, 2008 10:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This about a country founded on genocide and slavery which has destroyed nations all over the globe for over fifty years.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Dec 17, 2008 1:02 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My mother insisted that I was destroying my hearing and corrupting my mind with the devil's music. But as it turns out, I was immunizing my senses, should I ever get caught in Big Brother's net 20 years later...Teenagers really are smarter than we give them credit for.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: myersqi on Dec 17, 2008 1:54 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Put Bush in jail.
Posted by: oldurn
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bobdown on Dec 17, 2008 5:02 PM
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Posted by: whealeydj on Dec 17, 2008 6:54 PM
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Posted by: Tim V on Dec 18, 2008 6:56 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A strong case can be made that psychological torture is generally worse than physical torture: In an Amnesty International report I read several years ago, a political prisoner reported savage beatings at the hands of his interrogators. He then said that it was far worse for him when they inflicted the same physical abuse on his fellow captives and made it look like it was his fault.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Gaubladt on Dec 19, 2008 10:33 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: AlexLawyer on Dec 21, 2008 12:41 AM
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Posted by: christianslayer1955 on Dec 21, 2008 5:43 AM
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