Tasers Are Sold as 'Non-Lethal' -- But They've Killed 400 So Far

We'll be discussing this article at 5 PM New York time Friday December 19 on News Talk Online on Paltalk.com.

Please go to www.garybaumgarten.com and click on the Join The Show button to particpate.

Thanks,

Gary

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This piece doesn't mention any studies that ask about increased likelihood to draw and fire the Taser. Do such studies exist? I suspect they would show that, of the 400 deaths attributable to Tasers, some amount (possibly most) were situations that would not have involved using a gun. Knowing this information would reveal the true crime of the Taser, that it tends to escalate, rather than mitigate, violence. So the 400 deaths, one might logically suspect, are mostly above and beyond the gory background rate of gun violence. This means, if it's demonstrably true statistically, that Tasers are just another tool to enable the passive to get aggressive immediately and thus raise the overall rate of violence. So the ultimate argument in favor of Tasers is likely almost 100 percent completely reversed in reality. I wish I knew if this has been researched.

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I don't understand why the police resort to
a taser when a fish-catching net would be
more effective and safer.

In S. Florida we use an 8-ft thrownet to
catch bait in the ocean.

If it's thrown over a person causing problems,
I guarantee this 8 foot fishnet would cover
the person and control his action when
covered with this net. Then all you have to
do is pull your long, control rope to pull
the net tight over the individual and they'll
be on the ground in seconds, unable to move
because they're covered tight with the net.
Sort of like lassoing a horse with a rope.
If you've got 2 people involved, you can
throw 2 nets and cover both of them up.

The fishnets cost $50+ and can be used over
again many times, so it's very inexpensive.

You can learn how to throw the net with very
little practice. Good for taking down a person holding a knife, ballbat, and other dangerous item,because most of the time a gun is not involved, and I'm sure there would be no lawsuits brought against the police in these cases.

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There's a lawsuit pending in my city involving taser use. The police were entering a home after a hurricane, and a neighbor, who didn't recognize them as cops because they wore plain clothes, drew his gun. When the police saw the gun and told him to get on the ground, he immediately complied, but they tased him anyway, and his wife. He has constant pain now and she is blind in one eye.
My daughter told me about some young friends of hers who were tased because they were suspected of marijuana possession. I think they refused to allow the cops to search their car.
There have also been some deaths reported at the local jail because of taser use. The only thing that will stop this is for the offending deputies to lose their jobs and the lawsuits pile up.

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Police agencies have embraced the taser for the same reason the Israeli military adopted rubber bullets in their weapons.

They know the weapons are lethal and give their people permission to use them indiscriminately. They want the pretense of "not trying to harm suspects" when killing suspects, and even innocent bystanders, is their actual intent.

It's about the demonstration of force, the abuse of power. Legalized and excused murder may not be the intent of the police officer carrying it, but it is the intent of those who put the taser in their hands, hence the suicide of Lt. Michael Pigott.

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just kidding ;)

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Why do people die? Because the taser hits them at the exact wrong time in their cardiac cycle.

Doctors can purposely put someone into Ventricular Tachycardia for research purposes. VT is a life-threatening cardiac arrhythmia if not abated. They simply apply a large shock to the patient at the height of the ECG's T-wave portion of the heart cycle. The heart has three basic cycles: the P, QRS, and T-wave (arbitrarily named by the medical community).

When a person is tased and it hits on the T-wave, their heart obviously responds the same way. They go into VT and ultimately die.

Here’s a paper from the American College of Cardiology

The only way to get people out of VT (and save their lives) is to immediately “defibrillate” them with what you’ve seen hanging on the airport wall, an IED.

Thus all police carrying a taser should be made to also carry a defibrillator. Simple as that.

Source:
www.acc.org/media/releases/ highlights/2006/aug06/stun_gun_1.pdf

(remove the space after "releases/")

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Here's how I bought my Defibrillator for $1275

I bought one because we have family get-togethers and a lot of elderly people who are at risk to heart attack.

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i've got an idea about how to fix this. details are here:

let's make the cops EARN their weapons

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You're right. Keep It Simple! Cops are not physicians. Anna

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and it quickly off the front page and all others, and guy was just plain dead. Here is an excerpt from the news story with some questions of my own.

The Hennepin County medical examiner's office has not yet determined Smith's cause of death. (How convenient that a federal judge has disallowed Tasering as evidence in fatality invetigations.)


When officers arrived, they found Smith outside of the home. At one point, an officer did see him with a long gun, but Smith was out of sight of the officers for a period of time, Palmer said. A gun has not been recovered, Palmer said. (How long a period of time was he out of site? Hours? How could he so effectively hide the alleged weapon that it could not be located?)

As the officers tried to arrest him, Smith struggled and was shot with a Taser, Palmer said. Shortly after Smith was subdued, he had a medical problem and paramedics were called, Palmer said. (Medical problem? The Tasering caused his death or at the very least set the death in motion from other causes.)

When this discussion started there were fewer than 200 deaths, then just over 300, and now over 400. How can anyone not admit that it is a dealy weapon? A gunshot does not kill every time either.

The analogy I use is that Dynamite in and of itself is not harmful but when ignited all hell breaks loose. A Taser may have the same effect and when it is used it sets off a possibly underlying physiological, medical, or genetic condition that leads to death. But the fact still remains that if, in most cases, the Taser was not used the person would not have died.

In a country that slaughters thousands on it's highways, has more gun deaths than any comparable population, routinely sends its service people off to fight illegal and contrived wars, allows citizens to die for lack of basic medical care, this is just one more way to die. Who cares?

For a look at a case where a Taser was used just Click Here

What threatening act did the victim commit? Great way to treat his wife too. Many times the only difference between the crooks and the cops is which side of the jail door they are on.

The slope to America's ruin gets slicker each day. Anything can be rationalized, look at history. Be afraid, be very afraid is the mantra of the people and corporations in power. The Sheeple just need to follow directions.

Stay tuned for the future!

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This murderer ate his gun ONLY because of neing fired.
There is so very much actual evidence that they do not care a whit about human, their victims.
It would be folly to thik that PIGgot had any remorse whatsoever about the victim.

The kneejerk label of 'cop hater" is used every time someone reacts to the VERY FACT that they EARN our disrespect by their brutal actions.

Those of us who are able to think clearly see right through this BS and know the truth.

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Killers will be killers, regardless of the weapon they choose. Cops choose their profession so they can "feel the power." Often, this comes in the form of getting away with murder. We must strive to make the enforcers of our laws live by those same laws. Tasers, like firearms are only as deadly as the person wielding them.

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we've got a badge & a taser!

be grateful you weren't SHOT with bullets.


Now, in Toronto, it was recently exposed that some un-documented BODIES were discovered inside the old Don Jail.

What was the Press coverage? some vague throwaway statements like, "gee, dunno, could have been from when we still had capital punishment"

...that's some hard-hitting journalism & CSI work!!

Maybe it *was*... maybe it wasn't... maybe somebody was controlling the crimescene... & maybe being 'difficult' is still rolling craps that you could experience some capital & corporal punishment to 'get in line'... ?

Just say'n... nobody is in a hurry to figure out how, why or who those bodies might be in there...

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Yes. Tasers can be deadly.

Yes. Bullets are more so.

Yes. The sense that some officers (and individuals who perceive themselves threatened) may have that tasering people will have no lasting consequences where such an attitude is prevalent needs to be addressed.

Yes. If I got myself liquored up and charged an officer with a knife after knocking around my wonderful, sweet wife, I'd rather be tased than shot and beg for forgiveness I don't deserve and shouldn't get later, rather than make my family attend my funeral.

Folks, a ketchup bottle (particularly the assault Glass) is a deadly weapon. What needs to be emphasized is the training and magnitude of response, not whether a tactical tool is "good" or "evil". This article did a very good job of talking about tasers in realistic terms until:

Tasers fulfill a powerful, violent fantasy: the ability to shoot someone without deadly consequences.

Unless you acknowledge (and I'd argue you're wrong, anyway) that humans desire to "shoot" other people, the proper place for this stupid, faith-based rhetoric is in a church setting, where the desire to "sin" is accepted as inherent amongst us.

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In the face of police claims that the taser is an effective, relatively harmless means of controlling a human being, and also in view of the fact that the Taser is now legal in 43 states for private use, will new crimes of assault come into existence -Assault with Taser? Assault by Tasing (Tasering?)? Electrical Assault?-just might need to be defined and legislated, and where will they fit among the various assault and battery statutes already on the books? The law enforcement establishment claims that Tasers are a non-lethal, non-damaging method of control. Can one be charged with attempted murder, or murder for that matter if the Tasing results in the death of the victim, for tasing, say, the guy in the bar looking the wrong way at a date? Can one tase someone in the ass (repeatedly) who is caught in flagrante delicto with a spouse without penalty? And what effect will this have on the non-tased member of the tryst in terms of orgasm or concomitant shocking experience? (This does suggest a new theme for porno movies that could be added to the other three.) Since the police establishment insists that subjecting an individual to 50 to 100 thousand volts causes no permanent harm, does tasering a person fall below the criminal standard of battery with a fist or baseball bat as in the case of punching someone in the mouth in response to an intolerable “diss” or collecting a gambling debt? And would the charge be dependent upon exactly how many volts were delivered to the victim?

It is now known that the desperate appeal “Don’t tase me, bro” is a relatively ineffective defense against being tased. It appears that it could well be an invitation. We have also learned that in the hands of the police just about anything, i.e. rudeness, free speech, confusion, possibly bad breath, is justification for tasing. Will some enterprising manufacturer market an anti-taser taser. Taser-proof underwear? What would be the results of a taser being discharged accidentally in a movie theater or a sporting event and some hapless bystander being wracked with convulsions in the aisle, popcorn, beer, spittle, urine, and vomit flying every which way?. Would those having to witness such a thing also be entitled to sue? Would the tort be limited only to dry cleaning? What would the legal ramifications be of someone tasering somebody’s dog? Or their own dog? Can a parent discipline an unruly kid (their own) with a Taser? It does, it must be admitted, present what would be an undeniably tempting tool very hard to resist in some cases. And it is non-lethal. Except for the 300 plus times in North America since 1999 that it hasn’t been.

The lethality of Tasers according to the corporation that markets them isn’t the fault of their product. It is the fault of the person being tased. They have tasered a long and comprehensive list of animal species (that should take care of the “dog” question) in the process of their R&D and have concluded-U.S. courts have generally agreed with this-that a tased individual has to be somehow defective in order to die from the experience. Therefore, they (the manufacturers) should not and cannot be held liable anymore than their end users, the police. The responsible party is the unfortunate who expired from fifty thousand or so volts doing the Lambada through his body . If someone wore a sign around his neck proclaiming “I am relatively unhealthy. Do not tase,” possibly he or she, or rather his/her estate, could have a claim. Of course, a sign like that could very likely get in the way when traveling on public transportation or while skateboarding-it would have to be big enough to be read at a distance of ten feet or so-and cause that individual to become a certain target for muggers, particularly muggers suffering from emphysema or asthma or who are simply getting on in years.

(continued following post)

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Only in America can the next best thing to beating someone to a pulp with a club or shooting them twenty, thirty, or fifty-one times with a 9mm be considered to be partially electrocuting them with fifty to a hundred thousand volts, collateral damage accepted in the case the “partial” modifier doesn’t quite apply. And since this method has been deemed non-lethal and non-permanently damaging, it can be employed for just about anything. It will go a long way to make issuing traffic tickets less confrontational. Drunks-no problem. Free speech, you say?. Off to the Free Speech Zone with your ass. No more torn or dirty uniforms, which will add years to the SS/Gestapo black police get-ups now in fashion with police departments, homeland security agents, private security guards, swat teams, etc. all about this country.

from Satan's Neutral Corner No. 7
satansneutralcorner@yahoo.com

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yo

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would be that cops sometimes act like angry children with a new toy that leave no marks. There are many reported instances of multiple tasings by several officers on a single subject. Expecting the officers to report accurately what happened, when hospitalization and/or death results would be an assinine assumption. They're not stupid and are very good at colluding to cover their asses. I'd submit that tasers aren't doing the killing, cops are, and they're getting away with it routinely.

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is a t-shirt I came up with for women @ protests.

Imagine the Press Release PhotoJournalism of the asshole who would taze a woman wearing that shirt!

...of course, give a NeoCon or an undereducated thug a shot at legislation & you'll see 'taking one's foetus to a protest' as being a crime for 'endangering a baby with liberal activism' ... because everybody KNOWS that to attend a peaceful rally is BEGGING for

beatings
gassing
tasing
rubber bullets
confinement...


"how dare a woman be so irresponsible as to care about the FUTURE when she's CARRYING AN ANGEL FROM JEBUS!!"



Spread Love, not corporate dependence...

BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian
~~~
"... tolerance of intolerance is cowardice..." ~ Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
"Violence can only be concealed by a Lie, & the Lie can only be maintained by Violence." ... "Any man, who has once proclaimed Violence as his Method, is inevitably forced to take the Lie as his Principle" – Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
~~~
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"

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There is no way it is an accident that this device is lethal. If they try to sell the Judges this piece of fiction I hope all the lawyers in the nation kick their asses hollow! High frequency high voltage pulsed signals have an effect because of heterodyning the natural nerve impulses in the human body with synergistically stronger signals from the taser.

These shocks are pulsed polyphase current designed to disrupt and short circuit the nervous system of an ADULT human being. This cannot be accomplished without scarring axons and ganglia alike. Anyone telling you differently is a God damned liar.

Now for certain mutants in society to whom extreme neural overload is the only recourse to orgasm I can understand the allure. I don't care how you parse it that is some sick shit just like tasing someone for vicarious thrills.

Listen little Judge in my community if one of your rogues tases any of my loved ones or me, if I survive it, I am coming after your job and will not cease till I have you behind bars and trashed your reputation. These police attitudes were yours to adjust or abate long before they became common practice. YOU HAVE NOT DONE YOUR JOB!

None of us, but the current teenagers was born into a police state. We have allowed it to become one, citizens action committees can change police attitudes but you RICH FOLK are going to have to do it. Poor folk stand a snowball’s hope of surviving Hells summer making a difference here. Just remember this when some one of YOUR kids acts a little too randy and has the neurons in his arm crisped so he has to wear a sling perhaps for life. So do something constructive now and save future pain and neuronic mayhem.

Not only will the above occur the cops as a matter of course wail the living tar out of the victim while he is down! Now, everyone knows that this behavior is acted out but no one has made any effort to correct the situation. The Police will now do whatever they please to anyone even if the person is not a known perpetrator of felonies. Mouthing the words “Well, he/she had to have done SOMETHING wrong to be treated that way to begin with” like some mindless presumptive arrogant mantra will only get you sneers for your concurrence with brutality from THIS quarter!

Get these fucking bondage freaks off the police forces or stop complaining about your treatment at their hands! Also, all of us know damned well the creeps that came up with this "non lethal" weapon are felons at heart. I am a lowly novice in the creation of weapons but I know how to build a Tesla Coil and what these tasers are is a highly specialized aplication of the same principle. The use of this weapon is just a symptom of an endemic human disease.

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Tasers are a Torture device...!

They violate the 8th Amendment as cruel and unusual punishment as well as the federal Law barring Torture..!

The regular abuse of this device makes this inarguable and prima facia..!

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and was laughing about it. See www.october22.org website of the October22 Coalition Against Police Brutality for their Stolen Lives Project, a body count of the dead by NYPD by gun and taser.

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So are bean bag guns, and mace. That doesn't mean that under the right conditions, they can't also kill someone.

Using the authors logic, guns don't always kill people. There are hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of people who have been shot but have lived to tell the tale. Does that mean guns shouldn't be considered lethal? I think everyone would say no, because guns are more likely to kill a person than just harm them. Just like tasers are more likely to likely to leave the perp alive, then kill them.

That said, if I was ever put in the situation where I had to either shoot a would be attacker or taze him, I'd pick the latter. The same could be said if I was a cop taking down an unruly suspect. I want the SOB to live long enough to face justice.

And to be honest, I really don't care about the temporary discomfort he feels. It's better than death, and he should've thought about that before he tried to commit a crime in the first place.

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Let's get the facts straight. The overwhelming majority of people who get tasered are not bank robbers-who tend to be armed and heavily armed-or rapists or major league felons. It is usually, however, the mentally ill, drunks, and those guilty of COC (contempt of cop, i.e. citizens who refuse to bow down and kiss the asses of rude, threatening, and undereducated jerks, political protesters, or individuals caught up in highly emotional situations). When the cops raid a "drug den," they don't go in with Tasers blazing. They assault these places in military fashion with M-16's and shotguns and, as Ayla mentioned, Flash Grenades.

It is a helluva lot easier to deal with these routine situations using tasers than with sophisticated training in crisis management and, to be blunt, this is a subject that many cops simply aren't up to mastering anyway. The line of thinking presented by Ayla and knot_rich is exactly what the control establishment of this country would like as many persons as possible to believe. It is, of course, bullshit. Someone pulling heat on a cop is not going to see a taser. That individual is going to be shot or shot at.

There are, however, severe consequences to shooting someone, even when justified. Shooting a political protester to date is still simply not acceptable. Actually, it is a major crime. Shooting anyone for mouthing off during a stop or an arrest, so far, falls in the same category, if there are witnesses present. This is not a case of either/or. This is a case of and, meaning a new type of trunchion, blackjack, brass knuckles, or billy has been added to the police repertoire, only this one doesn't leave marks, no evidence trail, engendering seemingly little compunction against using it in the most trivial of circumstances, and little or no accountability after the fact.

Satan's Neutral Corner

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