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Rights and Liberties

If Obama Doesn't Prosecute Bush's Torture Team, We'll Pay a Big Price Down the Road

By Liliana Segura, AlterNet. Posted November 28, 2008.


Obama isn't likely to pursue torture atrocities during the Bush era, but this is one problem you simply can't wish away.
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"How did it come about that American military personnel stripped detainees naked, put them in stress positions, used dogs to scare them, put leashes around their necks to humiliate them, hooded them, deprived them of sleep and blasted music at them? Were these actions the result of 'a few bad apples' acting on their own? It would be a lot easier to accept if it were. But that's not the case."

-- Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, June 17, 2008

***

It was a short but significant report in Newsweek last week, and it began like this:

Despite the hopes of many human rights advocates, the new Obama Justice Department is not likely to launch major new criminal probes of harsh interrogations and other alleged abuses by the Bush administration. But one idea that has currency among some top Obama advisers is setting up a 9/11-style commission that would investigate counterterrorism policies and make public as many details as possible. "At a minimum, the American people have to be able to see and judge what happened," said one senior adviser, who asked not to be identified for talking about policy matters. The commission would be empowered to order the U.S. intelligence agencies to open their files for review and question senior officials who approved "waterboarding" and other controversial practices.

The article, written by Michael Isikoff, came at the heels of another report by the Associated Press, which quoted a pair of anonymous Obama advisors as saying that there was little-to-no chance that an Obama Justice Department would try to prosecute Bush-era officials for torture. The same report quoted Senate Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., as saying that members of the Bush administration would not face war crimes charges in the United States. "These things are not going to happen."

Common consensus is that the Bush administration has been the most lawless in U.S. history. From its illegal invasion of Iraq to the corporate-assisted, warrantless wiretapping of its own constituents, the Bush White House seems never to have held a view of the law from below. And, since long before the election of Barack Obama, a number of groups and individuals have called for accountability, from a vocal network of people calling for impeachment for Bush's illegal and fraudulent invasion of Iraq, to, this summer, the bluntly labeled campaign, Send Karl Rove to Jail.

But if ever there was a stain on the fabric of American democracy that must be deserving of prosecution, it is the dark legacy of torture left by the Bush administration. From Abu Ghraib to Guantanamo to the CIA's "secret sites," proof abounds that the U.S. government engaged in systematic torture that was approved by top government officials. Ironically, a central laboratory for this corrosion of the country's moral and legal code was the very office charged with defending the rule of law: the Department of Justice.

"It is these attorneys -- Alberto Gonzales, John Yoo, James Bybee, David Addington and William Haynes -- who provided the legal basis for much of the torture and abuse that occurred at Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, and other U.S. detention facilities around the globe," Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights, writes in the recently published The Trial of Donald Rumsfeld: A Prosecution by Book. In Ratner's view, the prosecution of these attorneys, as well as Bush, Cheney and the rest, is a critical part of not just imposing accountability on those who approved and carried out torture in the name of the American people, but in dismantling a legal framework that could lead to more torture in the future.

'This Was an Assault on the Law Itself'

Members of the legal and human rights community are currently grappling with the question of how to hold the Bush administration accountable for its crimes. In a recent cover story of Harper's Magazine, human rights legal scholar Scott Horton lays out the rationale for pursuing the crimes of the Bush administration. The good news is there is plenty of historical precedent for going after government torturers in the United States. The bad news is that they have been uneven, at best. From an Army captain who was court-martialed for imposing the "water cure" on Filipinos during the Spanish-American War ("He was forced to pay a $50 fine") to Japanese military officials tried for war crimes (including waterboarding) after World War II -- some of whom were sentenced to death, the severity of the sanction has depended on who is meting it out.


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Liliana Segura is an AlterNet staff writer.

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Very Sad.
Posted by: Nodarse on Nov 28, 2008 2:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Democrats in Congress, including Obama, have had 7 Years to prosecute this guy. The sad truth is that if they haven't done so by now, they're not going to. It's as simple as that.

The only way it could happen is if sufficient numbers of us, Democrats, Independents, and yes, Republicans too, get pissed off enough and demand it.

We don't need ballots, bullets or mass demonstrations that fizzle out after the next news cycle. We need massive civil disobedience and non-cooperation with the Federal Government. And it has to hurt.

Then, and only then, do we have chance to reclaim our Nation and our values. If not, then we deserve serfdom for ourselves, our children and every generation there after.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» It isn't going to happen Posted by: georgiaorwell
» The Democrats.. Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» RE: The Democrats.. Posted by: Quannah
» RE: The Democrats.. Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: The Democrats.. Posted by: Quannah
» RE: The Democrats.. Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: The Democrats.. Posted by: Quannah
» RE: The Democrats.. Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: The Democrats.. Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Very Sad. Posted by: christianslayer1955
» You missed your chance. Posted by: Alan8
» RE: Very Sad. Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Very Sad. Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
It is the civic duty of all Americans to proceed aganst the Bush Cabinet and incumbent Senate.
Posted by: Nightstallion on Nov 28, 2008 2:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By this I mean, prosecute all those responsible for his rise to and maintenance of power in the United Sates Head Office. This war was about personal greed and making people in certain arenas supremely powerful.

The image of the United States planet wide is not just deplorable, but without merit. We have become bar sinister in more countries than most are aware of here and now. It is deserved we worked hard to achieve this. We stayed up nights to ensure the most heinous criminals we could conjure would be in positions of power and authority.

I do not know why we did this, only that it was done with a fervor that is ugly and shocking in a people that one time prided itself in fairness and even handed rulings. Well, that time is past, but fortunately we have a chance to relieve at least some of the terrible responsibility for these anti-social and anti-human acts. Personally I will never feel straight with my concept of God again. In my world God is love, by allowing this monster and his cronies’ reign I sold my human citizenship to a Demon of physical wealth and good material holdings.

I urge all to Read Vincent Bugliosi’s book: Prosecuting George W. Bush for murder! Some young lawyer could really make a name for himself and restore faith in this countries abilities to do good works by undertaking this work in the name of human rights and freedom pro bono. To say nothing of doing a good work for faith in spirit. Please someone out there Contact Vincent Bugliosi, and use his services to chase these monsters down.

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» HERE IS WHERE YOU CAN START! Posted by: TarryFaster
» if that book was that much Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» Strange bed fellows! Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Strange bed fellows! Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Strange bed fellows! Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Strange bed fellows! Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Strange bed fellows! Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Strange bed fellows! Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Strange bed fellows! Posted by: GatoPreto
» A bit of good news? Posted by: aussidawg
A Long List
Posted by: Sparks56 on Nov 28, 2008 2:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"But if ever there was a stain on the fabric of American democracy that must be deserving of prosecution, it is the dark legacy of torture left by the Bush administration."
Add this to slavery/Jim Crow, the annihilation of native North, Central, and South American cultures, the entire Viet Nam War, and the promotion and support of various dictators.
The crimes against humanity for which America needs to atone is a long one.
Given the peresent economic situation, it is extremely unlikely that we will see any investigation, let alone prosecution, into recent American crimes against humanity. We could try by publishing ALL the Abu Graib pictures. The really ugly ones were supressed.
It will be argued, rightfully, that the publication of those pictures will only stir up more Muslim/Iraqi hatred against America. ("Let sleeping dogs lay.")
I am a pessimist

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» RE: A Long List Posted by: Longdream
» RE: A Long List Posted by: Sparks56
» Can Obama pass the acid test? Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: Can Obama pass the acid test? Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: Can Obama pass the acid test? Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: Can Obama pass the acid test? Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: Can Obama pass the acid test? Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: A Long List Posted by: patfr
So, don't get me wrong here I am all for Civil dissobedience
Posted by: Nightstallion on Nov 28, 2008 2:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But, Americans are not Hindi and have no faith in the power of peaceful revolution. Ghandis tactics will not work here. People will be killed in droves till blood runs in the street ankle deep.

We are American, violence prone and violence bred. We love all the Gore for Glory horseshit we have been pumping for years. If there is not any real Icor going to be in the offing here none of us will go for it! Or, conversely if we do, millions will have to die before the Peaceniks will finally be all gone and the real slaughter can begin!

Do you think I over state or over simplify? Fine then start the ball rolling and see what it starts bouncing off of on its merry way to happy destiny. Some of us have been there and done that, we are un-bluffed by the Neo-Convict hard ass politicos and fluffy pink faeries flitting about the peanut butter and jelly skies of all is Security La La Land alike! You can lie to yourselves all you wish but you cannot lie to me! If we don’t put this monster centipede and his co-criminals in the hoosegow they are going to be back to do it all again just like that damn Terminator.

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dipconsult
Posted by: dipconsult on Nov 28, 2008 2:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a very difficult question - but of great importance in recovering the standing of the US in the world.

I suggest it is unfair and unjust to prosecute those who carried out policy decided at the top by President G W Bush, Vice President Cheney, Mr. Rumsfeld and others, notably those who gave the legal advice.

And that it would be impolitic and difficult to go after them.

But surely there does need to be a truly independent and comprehensive enquiry - set up very soon - into what took place, at whose instigation, and why.

This need not waste government time, nor lay the new Administration open to charges of "witch hunting". And it would not involve the Justice Department investigating itself.

An obviously unbiassed and full report would
enable Congress to act to ensure future Adminstrations would not repeat the actions of the G W Bush Administration.

Domestically and internationally this would go a long way to recovering America's reputation - and impress all concerned with the way (unlike so many countries, Germany notably excepted) the US can face the truth of its past and so be able to put it behind it.

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» RE: dipconsult Posted by: javajoe
» RE: dipconsult Posted by: Lauren
» RE: dipconsult Posted by: Von
» RE: dipconsult: Xcuse Me! Posted by: madmax427
If revenge for 9/11
Posted by: weathered on Nov 28, 2008 2:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
motivated Gitmo's torture to extract cause and identity of the source of hate, why were large photographs of Irag's oil fields posted on the walls for the very 1st cabinet mtg. of the bush administration, as stated in Paul O'Neil's (the 3 month term Secty of Transportation) book?

Denial is very cruel, it blocks the association between cause and effect. Obfuscation is pernicious, it manipulates a lie and fashions it to a story and timeline.

The truth is very simple, its requires little, lies are very needy and requires lots of heavy lifting. If trust and respect were present the need for AlterNets and Truthdigs wouldn't be as great, but as long as MSM/PBS/NPR choreographs a screenplay of mis and disinformation the public suffers the one key component to relationships, trust.

A country that lies to itself, marginalizes itself. Unless we have the courage to confront our lies we'll remain as sick as our secrets.
Not seeking prosecution for the string of crimes committed in broad daylight by this administration is criminal and we'll ALL pay a terrible price.

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» RE: If revenge for 9/11 Posted by: babka
» RE: AMEN! weathered Posted by: buzzsaw
» RE: weathered Posted by: Quannah
» RE: weathered Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: weathered Posted by: Quannah
» RE: weathered Posted by: weathered
» RE: weathered Posted by: Quannah
» RE: If revenge for 9/11 Posted by: willymack
» RE: If revenge for 9/11 Posted by: Lauren
RE: MINISTER
Posted by: madmax427 on Nov 28, 2008 11:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dear Dwight:

I sincerely believe in Your comments intentions, however I have one cravat: I do not believe this is a matter that needs to include "God". Common decency should be more than enough reason to take action.

At 57 years old, I do not address nor believe in, what is passed along as fact by 'organized' Religion as it is also a means of CONTROL over Men & Women: I believe it is a FARCE because MAN (or Woman) uses it to CONTROL the thoughts of Others, to Their benefit, NOT "God's". I believe this is important because You risk the support of Those who believe like Myself when You state "God" MUST be involved to rectify this and You also LOSE support from Your own base because They will believe 'praying' for Divine Intervention will be enough!

ACTION, taken by ALL Those who believe this MUST be repaired, is what is neccessary!

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"our KING the LORD JESUS CHRIST"?????
Posted by: pelican beak on Nov 28, 2008 1:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Our" King the Lord Jesus Christ???????

OUR KING???????

Speak for yourself, Kimosabe. Many of us don't inhabit your Lala Land.

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RE: MINISTER
Posted by: christianslayer1955 on Nov 28, 2008 3:10 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have had to get interviewed at times by 3 different people for a lousy position of Security officer.....How many interviews do you think a person has to go through in order to become president of the United States?We are not talking about any man .....We are talking about a Black man...Are you people that stupid to believe that the same system that gave us 8 years of Bush and Cheney would allow a decent and well meaning Black man to take over the reins of power?Americans,wake up before it's too late........Obama will be much worse than Bush...He'll just come up with better excuses and use a little vaseline versus Bush who was never nice enough to use any.....That mean bastard

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» RE: MINISTER Posted by: Lauren
» RE: MINISTER Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: MINISTER Posted by: Lauren
RE: MINISTER & Public Speaking
Posted by: americansheep on Nov 28, 2008 4:07 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your heart is in the right place and I salute your determination. I agree a presence where we congregate in large numbers and have 24 hr. speakers (made up of whoever raises their hand to speak). Too bad that this could not be done in our own cities...but has anyone noticed that there is a lack of public speaking corners left in most US towns and cities? NYC has one at Union Square. London has one near Marble Arch. San Francisco used to have one, also at a square name Union, but that square has been remodeled with a restaurant plopped in the midst of it and I doubt the everyday citizens still are "allowed" to engage one another there anymore. In Atlanta, all the parks have closing hours. It's as if it is part of a grand plan for us NOT to have a place to congregate and talk with each other. Perhaps we should work within our own towns to re-establish plazas for public speaking.

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RE: CONGRESS INDICT
Posted by: sirios on Nov 28, 2008 8:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sadly,Not Obama nor Jesus will be judging Bush and company. Greed and identification with ONE side brought us to this despicable point. Your exclusion of all paths through siding with Jesus will only continue the divisiveness. Please don't waste your time retorting with Bible quotes that fall out of the realm of your personal experience.

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RE: CONGRESS INDICT
Posted by: Basenjis on Nov 28, 2008 9:35 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have no objection to prayer. It gives many people comfort and a feeling of closeness to God. But God did not get us into this present predicament and we should not depend on God or friendly aliens passing through or anyone else but our very own selves to find a way out.

It does no good either to say "I told you so," though many of us could say it. Once we had choices for electing presidential candidates who were not only anti-war but who were also outspokenly pro-impeachment and they were rejected. So we are left with a man who at least, was legally elected by the people, so that's a good beginning.

Now it may be up to the people who elected him to insist on our day in court. To recover from years of Bush abuse, the country needs healing and some sense of closure to the disorienting effects of discovering the magnitude and the shame of the crimes committed by our own government and in our own names. Only with full exposure of these crimes and of the people responsible can genuine recovery take place. It may be up to us to get this across to a new and reluctant administration. It is our right as voters to demand it be done.

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» RE: CONGRESS INDICT Posted by: rinthy
Wait and See
Posted by: GatoPreto on Nov 28, 2008 3:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not sure it's the Prez Elect's job to initiate this. It would certainly carry more weight if the people were behind it. If there is a strong grassroots effort in that direction, Mr. Obama will most likely do the right thing. Droves of young disgusted lawyers must be pondering the facts as we speak. Come January, we can all put our colective shoulder to the wheel and clean up.

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Wait and See II
Posted by: US Citizen 07 on Nov 28, 2008 4:08 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I couldn't agree with "wait and see" anymore.

It's not up to our administration to right this wrong, it's up to us to make sure it is addressed.

Peoples dependancy on the government is a lot of the problem in today's world.

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» RE: Wait and See II Posted by: christianslayer1955
» RE: Wait and See II Posted by: Quannah
Asking for a Dictator
Posted by: jbpaz on Nov 28, 2008 4:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr Bush has costructed an excellent foundation for a dictatorship. A less benign President than Obama could turn the thumbscrews on the population. His controlled media would convince ordinary citizens of his good will. Who would notice the FEMA concentration camps bulging with malcontents? Who would care if Iran, North Korea or Pakistan became water vapor? Who would object to turning in dollars for Ameros? Who would report Guantanamo Bay filling up with Congressmen, stock brokers, bankers, CEO's, civil servants and bureaucrats?

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» RE: Asking for a Dictator Posted by: photon's feather
Just give US the Dept HEADS of Cheneycorp
Posted by: Purple Girl on Nov 28, 2008 4:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am not interested in going after every person who has been used to create the conspiracy of Treason,War crimes & Crime sagainst Humanity...I just want the HEADS of those at the Center of it....Cheney,Rummy,Wolfie. These men concocoted a scheme to not only getting US involved in Illegal Militar yactions, but also to destablize our economy by needlessly increasing the reliance on Foriegn Oil and Gambling Deregulations.These Three (at least) have been slithering around DC for Decades. I still wonder what their parts were in Watergate & Iran Contra-and probabaly many other criminal activities yet to be discovered.
This ring of conspirators have not been haphazardly committing crimes, they have been putting pieces together to create a bigger picture. One Where the US is not an economic powerhouse, nor a 'Gold Standard' for other nations to try to emmulate, economically or uin regards to Rigths & Freedoms.
this Group has been Corporatizing the American Sysem of Laws. Effectively creating a caste Feudal system controlled by Logo's instead of Family Crests. They have been Trying to create the EXACT system our ancestors fled HERE.
they have undermined or Destroyed most aspects of the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights. But what most fail to recognize is the Fact they have committed crimes which have undermined The Declaration of Independence. That Document was not just a Declaration of Freedom from the English Monarchy, It was a Declaration against ANY Monarchy Or dictatorship. This is why the Nixon phrase "If the Preident Does it, It's not illegal' IS at it's core ILLEGAL.Such adages are those of Kings, Not Presidents of Democracies.
Again Cheney Rummy Wolfie were all part of that adminstration and every other afterwards, and what has been proven is the continued operating policy that Presidents are above laws. This is a pattern of criminality against the MOST basic foundation of our Republic.
During an Interview Cheney was asked about his thoughts that most Americans wanted out of Iraq. His Response "So". Frankly I saw that as a Confession of Treason. If disregarding the Will of the Citizens of a Demcoracy is not Blatant Treason, Then we might as well stop calling ourselves a Democracy.the Great Experiment has failed and Now we need to figure out which form of Gov't we have been conquered by.Seems the 'Red Coats' took a while,but they have finally conquered the Colonies.
this is ONE area that I will not Compromise, That's been Done repeatedly and look what it has done to our 'Shining city'. I may hold Pres elect Obama in high regard, but failure to demand Justice for US will quickly change my mind about his morals & Ethics. This subject may be the one which turns Obama's 'community Organizing' network into his Frankenstein.
I want their Heads on Recycled Paper Plates ( the silver platters are far too good) and I am not a proponent of Capital Punishment, but in this instance, because of the extent and depth of these crimes, I want the Death penality for the Top players in this Decades long conspiracy to bring down our Free Market Democracy by Corporationists.

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lip service?
Posted by: WhatNow? on Nov 28, 2008 4:49 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Obama has stated that as a country, the United States does not torture"

Where else have I heard this? Ah yeah, bush said "we don't do torture".

"Although his opposition to torture has been unequivocal in tone, Obama has been hesitant to state in solid terms what exactly he would do about the torture that already took place."

The text I've highlighted with bold letters seems to be recurring theme with obomber. If he does happen to do something to clean up this mess, I'll be surprised and very pleased but I'm not too hopeful on this one. Also I've come to wonder if closing Guantanamo is a all style with no substance. I'm getting the idea that everything will just be moved elsewhere with little change on policy. Come on Obama I want to see you prove one of your naysayers wrong!

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» RE: lip service? Posted by: georgiaorwell
» RE: speak of the devil Posted by: Lauren
» RE: speak of the devil Posted by: georgiaorwell
» RE: speak of the devil Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: speak of the devil Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: speak of the devil Posted by: GatoPreto
Kid stuff!
Posted by: 2thepoint on Nov 28, 2008 4:57 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
""How did it come about that American military personnel stripped detainees naked, put them in stress positions, used dogs to scare them, put leashes around their necks to humiliate them, hooded them, deprived them of sleep and blasted music at them?"

You're kidding. I agree this is usually the realm of the CIA but this is light weight stuff..compare this to what Vietnam vets were subjected to or many other countries do this isn't torture. Harassment yes..torture no! Our CIA, Russia's KGb etc..etc do alot worse!

Should we be doing this? If it was to get info we felt was vital, yes, if it was just to play with their heads and for "enjoyment"..no..

I've encountered worse riding the NYC subway system!

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» Then volunteer Posted by: EinMD
» Just another good German! Posted by: marid
» RE: Kid stuff! Want to volunteer... Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Kid stuff! Posted by: Malamute
» RE: Kid stuff! Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: Kid stuff! Posted by: rinthy
What if...
Posted by: MyLeftFoot on Nov 28, 2008 5:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
there was a movement where a few million people started to hold their federal tax money in an escrow account until the war criminals were brought to justice? send a message to Congress that, 'you'll get our money when you start doing your job'. I don't think the IRS has enough staff to start going after a few million people.

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» Vote w/your Wallet Posted by: weathered
» RE: What if... Posted by: Revolutionary (Direct) Democracy
» RE: What if... Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: What if... Posted by: Quannah
» RE: What if... Posted by: willymack
» RE: What if... Posted by: weathered
» RE: What if... Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
Dog the Wag
Posted by: babka on Nov 28, 2008 6:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The "people's president" you push
and long have liked to crucify.
You never asked the elder Bush
if he had made poor Barbara cry.

In this man's world a starlet will
advance the only way she knows.
"The heart has reasons" - friends of Bill.
"He can't do wrong right!" - from his foes.

Old jocks cry, "Let's go all the way!
Launch bombs! No blow jobs! Off the Chief"
Long years of slo-mo genocide
and now, big guns! Sweet Christ! Good grief!

This coup is rotten to the core
in spite of what the law has found;
the sex distracts us from the war
and not the other way around.

It's use or lose our armaments.
The world implodes in mad events,
just pausing long enough to back
a Final Solution for Iraq.


========================
rhetorical questions

1. why is Bush untouchable?

2. why were the Nazis put on trial for crimes against humanity?

3. Is protest "old-hat"? Have we already "done" impeachment over a folly, so we don't want to repeat ourselves over war profiteering and genocide rooted in contempt for the "Other"?

4. Will an "Otherly" President do the right thing?

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What have we here?
Posted by: javajoe on Nov 28, 2008 6:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What?
Obama=Good Cop Bush:Bad Cop ?
Republicratic Party ?
Same Old Stuff ?
Tweedldum and Tweedledee ?
New Boss, Same As The Old Boss ?

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And what about both parties in Congress who let the Bush/Cheney gang do it?
Posted by: maxpayne on Nov 28, 2008 7:51 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh right. Just give them a "free" pass. The author should have learned a lesson from the novel 1984. It's not enough to take down the leader. You gotta build the support to take down a bad system and replace it with a better one over time. Besides, even if the Bush/Cheney gang were to face prosecution, they would could easily pull down members of Congress for giving them the blank checks to do what they wanted. REFORM CONGRESS !

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BUSH'S BUTT IS COVERED IN ALL DIRECTIONS
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Nov 28, 2008 7:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama can't be expected to prosecute George Bush. That's not why he got elected. The only thing that will work is impeachment, which can occur after he leaves office. The Constitution protects his powers of the office and he knows that. An impeachment can include alot of things and can implicate other people, but Obama would be wasting valuable time and money at this time. It would be nothing but a folly and we'd all look foolish. I'd love to see about ten of them haging at the end of a rope but it's not going to happen. Bush never made a move before making sure he was covered. Trouble is we never saw this kind of disregard for our country until he came along. What is morally wrong is not always a crime. What most of us want is not impossible but it has to wait until he's out of office. There's always the chance that a foreign county will prosecute him on their terms and based on their laws. Bush did not act alone, he had plenty of help. It's all a painful lesson learned the hard way. I'm convinced that he doesn't understand the gravity of the situation and the fact that he created most of our problems. His favorite things about being the president were: Airforce One and the White House Cooking. Irag & Afganistan don't even cross his mind. He seems off in his own world that defies any fairy tale ever written. If I thought he felt the least bit guilty about anything, I'd feel better, but he's just somewhere out there is his own world. To anyone who has better ideas, I'm all for it. He left us with one thing. We paid attention to the election this time. And the 'values' and religious crap didn't get alo of attenton. In the end it's about a roof and three squares, not what someone is doing in bed three states away. Sounds simplistic, but we sure did learn a lesson. ANNA

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» RE: being an ass Posted by: Lauren
Send BUSH to Jail!
Posted by: thinkverybig on Nov 28, 2008 7:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Bush gets away with all the mess he's done, I would strongly encourage a REVOLUTION!

Don't obey the law!

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» RE: Send BUSH to Jail! Posted by: rideyourbike11
You guys won, what more do you want!
Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals on Nov 28, 2008 7:52 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Newsflash: Obama will be uses the same tactics. Like how dose food get to the plate its not a preity proses. Like that show "Dirty Jobs" fighting bad guys that are willing to blow your head off (yes even your, and you can blame the west however you will just be dead with conviction and still = being dead). Plus we got bigger isses right?

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» Untill Barney Frank and Chris Dodd Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
The Crimes We Know About Are Probably Just the Tip of the Iceberg
Posted by: Carol Burns on Nov 28, 2008 7:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am so sick and tired of hearing people say that the Bush administration will not be impeached, indicted or prosecuted. If we don't do these things, then our country stands for nothing. We need real investigations, not another 9/11 gloss-over. This is the reason that Bush continues to create chaos for Obama to inherit; they couldn't steal this election, although I'm sure they tried, so a McCain coverup or pardon or whatever they were hoping for didn't happen. The only avenue left is to drown the new president in a tangle of problems so that he can't concentrate on their criminal activities. The argument that impeachment and prosecution are "too divisive" makes me want to cry. Screw divisiveness. The only way to reunite the country is to pursue impeachment and prosecution. These are CRIMINALS! Treat them as such.

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RE: you are wrong, Bush can't cover it all up. You know it all, huh?
Posted by: Lauren on Nov 28, 2008 9:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No I don't know it will never happen, I know it will.

Why don't you give us your qualifications to make this grand claim.

My qualifications to say they will be caught and punished is that I am their well documented victim and I expect to actually see my own justice carried out. I have lots of friends.

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RE: SAd
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Nov 28, 2008 11:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is much too big a pile to sweep under the rug. This is Bush's "Leagacy" as he likes to call it. It will haunt him for the rest of his life. For the next 100 years historians will be digging up more and more stuff. We still don't know all of it. 3 generations of the Bush family have been a disgrace to this country. I think their reign is over. Anna

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If we could only catch them having oral sex!
Posted by: sirios on Nov 28, 2008 8:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If they don't prosecute, then any misdeeds that Obamas group engages in will pale by comparison and give them a wider latitude for ineptness and lackluster results. However, not punishing the Bush administrations crimes will further deteriorate our credibility here and abroad. This will be like verbally reprimanding a child with no consequences. the result is, a repetition and escalation of bad behavior.

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» Seriously, Who the Fuck Posted by: ranchero42
» RE: Seriously, Who the Fuck Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Seriously, Who the Fuck Posted by: sirios
» RE: Seriously, Who the Fuck Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Seriously, Who the Fuck Posted by: ranchero42
» RE: Seriously, Who the Fuck Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
send them to prison
Posted by: wagnerrocks@gmail.com on Nov 28, 2008 8:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For their crimes against humanity, and the American people, The Bush Devil and his blood soaked clan must be sent to prison. No if ands or buts...broken laws and traitorus behavior must be punished. This can't be left to the international courts...It must happen here in the US system of Justice. We the people deserve Justice and equal treatment under the law. We the people must demand Justice be done or be forced to accept a much lesser form of Government now and into the future. Start the calls and letters NOW, the day after thanksgiving.

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Simplest way to prosecute is to reopen 9/11 commission
Posted by: kellysgarden on Nov 28, 2008 8:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With all the new evidence about the three WTC towers imploding, it would be a simple case of scientific evidence to prove that the Bush administration has been complicit in the cover-up of the 9/11 attacks in order to bring on their illegal wars, rendition, torture, illegal wiretaps, PATRIOT act, Military Commissions act, elimination of Habeas Corpus, etc. The whole chain of dominoes needs to start falling by first proving the false-flag nature of the 9/11 attacks.

The evidence of this is scientifically proven by the evidence of thermite in the dust samples. The laws of physics also disprove a free-fall rate of speed for the three WTC towers.

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» What about Fannie/Fred? Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» Please Remove Head... Posted by: schiffer
seakat
Posted by: Kathy-B on Nov 28, 2008 8:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do believe they are criminals and should be prosecuted AND I really hope it happens.

However, if it doesn't happen, what will really make me mad is that we get to support these criminals for the rest of their lives.

Very sad.

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Founder Veterans Against Torture
Posted by: wolfgangpmay on Nov 28, 2008 8:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All of the above are the reasons why six of us, especially Gordon Sturrock , decided to found VeteransAgainstTorture.com
Look us up un the web!
Wolfgang P. May
Advisory Team Leader
in the "Iron Triangle"
Republic of Vietnam

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» RE: link Posted by: Lauren
» RE: link Posted by: Quannah
» RE: link Posted by: Lauren
Criminal acts
Posted by: Archie1954 on Nov 28, 2008 10:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why not start at the beginning? The current president's parents obviously did a negligent job of raising him. He was and is a reprobate and they should have advised the Republican Party that he was not an acceptable candidate for high federal office. At least as governor of Texas his irresponsibility was restricted to within the borders of that socially backward state. No, the former president and first lady failed the people and the country by not speaking up when they had a chance. More immediate though is the idea that prosecution for criminal acts should not fall within the political realm. The president should have nothing to do with a decision to prosecute or not. It is up to the judicial system to decide that. Please don't tell me that a president spends his time everyday deciding whether or not some dime store criminal should be prosecuted or not. So what is the difference if the "dime store" criminal is a former president or his henchmen? If they committed crimes under the law then let the prosecutors decide whether or not to charge. Any political interference simply means that all citizens are not equal under the law, which is prohibitive under a democratic system of government such as the US has.

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» RE: Criminal acts Posted by: rinthy
Many Approaches
Posted by: jmmartin on Nov 28, 2008 10:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Scott Horton article in Harper's (which you mention) is superb. It suggests that we don't have to hold Bush and his cohorts criminally responsible, then punish them accordingly, but use a 9/11 type commission to thoroughly research who did what and when.

Naturally, at the very least, everyone in the room when Condoleeza assigned types of torture to categories of detainee, is culpable, not to forget Rummy and, perhaps, the neo-con crowd, all of whom exited the cabinet once they saw the Iraqi War was a fiasco. I'm talking Frum types, Paul Wolfowitz, Doug Feith, Richard Perle, the Ugliest Americans of them all.

But the benefit of such an airing of grievances and full examination of the problem from a non-partisan POV outweighs the political fallout from Kucinich style show trials. We ask them to apologize. If they don't, at least they've been exposed to scrutiny and will live as quasi-pariahs the rest of their days.

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» RE: Many Approaches Posted by: javajoe
Are we heading for a new beginning or a Third Reich future?
Posted by: monkeywrench on Nov 28, 2008 10:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From the article:
"As Ratner recently wrote on his blog, 'If laws can be broken with impunity today, they can and will be broken with impunity tomorrow. Not just laws against torture and war crimes, but any and all laws; any and all limits on government.' "

A perfect example of this was the preemptive pardoning of Richard Nixon by Gerald Ford "for the good of the nation." This has led directly to the abuses and excesses, and shredding of our Constitution, by the Bush neocons. No punishment, no deterrence.

We find ourselves at a similar crossroads now, but with an important difference: the criminality of the Bush administration is far, far worse than was Nixon's (and from some of the same characters who surrounded Nixon), and is not by any estimate limited to the abuses of detainees. In fact, if the sum total of Bush administration criminality were ever published in one place, it would beggar the imagination. The article spotlights detainee abuses, as other articles have spotlighted other abuses by Bush, precisely because adding them all up is just too taxing to calculate, too widespread to be believable.

But believe them we must.

If we do not establish once again that we are a nation of LAWS, not men, and if we do not commit to Bush's cabal the ONLY thing criminals understand – harsh punishment – then abuse by our own government will, undoubtedly, happen again and most likely be even worse yet. The next time, we may be closer to Nazi-style fascism than any of us can envision if we do not act now.

Let's act preemptively, and start our own "Nuremberg Trials" today.

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» RE: Ah... Nixon! Posted by: Quannah
» how about Posted by: babka
» RE: never again Posted by: Lauren
The Post-bush recovery period
Posted by: ringo on Nov 28, 2008 10:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Post-bush recovery period

There are major questions outstanding regarding Bush & the administrations culpability, substance, competence etc.. “W” has left the USA in distressing need of at minimum a major image make-over. There are no clear answers to our problems, however the US needs to win back confidence by bucking up and displaying leadership.

First stop the money-corruption cycle, do away with political-influence money and lobbyists by funding our election campaigns exclusively from the US tax dollar with equal amounts of money to support the top five candidates. Vote with your ballot for if you vote with the dollar big money is winning now and will win every time.

Second request independent unimpeded UN and/or World Court investigation(s) of bush II & staff. If requested turn any or all over to a Word Court for further war crimes investigation and any suggested penalty. The proceedings should be held in a Nuremberg form court of law with goals to find out and daylight what bushII and the Texas Taliban have done to our rights & liberties as well as addressing war crimes and/or treasonous acts carried out by leadership.

Third turn all 02-04 election records over to an independent UN committee for investigation and possible corrective and/or punitive measures.

Fourth request the UN provide unrestricted oversight of our future presidential elections.

Fifth validate the treaties so rashly nullified post 9/11. Void the legal opinion from former Justice Department official John Yoo asserting that Bush possessed unlimited authority as Commander in Chief, including the power to have military interrogators abuse terror suspects.

Sixth Repeal the Patriot act, FISA laws, Military Commissions Act of 2006 and The Protect America Act, John Warner National Defense Authorization Act, Roll all our rights and liberties back (or should I say forward) to the pre-drug war days and reinstitute laws only if they pass stringent (read Libertarian) Constitutional tests.

Seven Israel/Palestine have squandered our credibility, money and efforts over a ~60 year span and still unable to settle their differences. Give 90 days notice, wash our hands of all responsibilities, pull out and let the chips fall where they may.

Eight restore the possibility of a third party (real choice) winning an election. See number one.

Nine punish the politicos for corruption not the usual symbolic slap on the hand we now accept as justice for our elected officials. Twenty years without possibility of parole is justified for selling out our country and nation.

Ten rigorously enforce the separation of church and state mandate.

Eleven. Our justice system is too important a component of the US balance of powers to play fast and loose. Investigate the bush II prosecutor dismissals and the Roberts/ Alito Supreme Court appointments if any impropriety's are evident replace the appointments in question with new candidates. The Bush administration & DOJ are not cooperating with investigations. Key administration players are refusing to testify and the Attorney General has memory problems.

Twelve. As long as we are digging up bones we need to look at all the bones. To maintain our own internal balance we need to expend some effort in answering US historical questions not satisfied or glossed over by government responses. Determine the extent of credibility of but not limited to: Eisenhower’s Military-Industrial Complex warning, the warren Commission report, Iran-Contra, Jackson & Kent State, PNAC, Danforth Report, The Nixon, Hoover and Joe McCarthy activities, MK-ultra, The Cold War, 9/11, FISA court, flight 800, and our records classification process.

Last The Department of Defense is a distancing euphemism; restore its original name 'The War Department'.

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They Got Off Yet Again
Posted by: cherylholmes on Nov 28, 2008 10:48 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From what I understand, Obama said he isn't going to prosecute, just appoint some DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, USELESS, stupid committee like politicians always do.

Why do you think they're attacking the Americans and British in Bombay? Why do you think they are asking to see passports? Because they love us? Hell no, you'll see a lot more attacks on the Americans and British everywhere. This is only the beginning. We're scum of the earth and we will pay for it!

Politicians are all part of it too, and so are we because we elected them and allowed them to torture and kill innocent people. We allow them to invade soverign countires and kill millions. No one will prosecute them so we ALL pay. Our silente compliance means we approve of everything they do making all of us guilty.

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» RE: Getting Offed Posted by: americansheep
» RE: Getting Offed Posted by: Quannah
the pattern is very clear...
Posted by: Annapurna1 on Nov 28, 2008 11:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
pushing aside all the legal mumbo jumbo...one fact remains obvious ..the ruling class has become a law onto itself...bu$hco will escape war crimes prosecutions.. meanwhile..citicorp has been handed the entire economy on the proverbial silver platter as a reward for their malfeasence...and subjects under any ruling class are by definition subjected to harsh and arbitrary abuses...

but one truth that obama spoke during the campaing is that power will not concede without a fight...and LION..it is incumbent on we the ppl to fight that fight if we are to hold obama to his word....

the good news..however..is that the boumediene decision from the SCOTUS could facilitate prosecutions of future war crimes...

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I think they are already pardoned.
Posted by: aonghus36 on Nov 28, 2008 11:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is figuratively speaking, for all you literalists out there. Obama may pardon them, with the ol' "the country needs to heal" routine, and/or "We need to get the economy up to par, and we don't need costly distractions".
A pardon would take care of those costly distractions.

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Caesar77
Posted by: Caesar77 on Nov 28, 2008 12:04 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is morally wrong for Nancy Palosi and Obama not to hold this group of criminals to account.
We are not better than the Nazis, if we let this little bastard, and his follow thugs, off the hook.
I mean, are we stupid.?
Obama and Palosi are complicit in murder/war crimes and human rights abuses, if they don't act, for the good of humanity by seeking retribution.

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» Right on, Caesar77 Posted by: harryf200
» Nancy Pelosi...morals...LOL!!! Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Caesar77 Posted by: Von
» RE: Caesar77 join NIN Posted by: Darwin26
The Justice Department?
Posted by: redroadtraveler on Nov 28, 2008 12:07 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those of us who have felt the brunt of federal prosecution know full well why the "Justice Department" is known as the "Just Us" department.

When I confronted my prosecutor with the fact that he committed perjury and obstruction of justice in order to "win" his case, he simply sneered at me, laughed in my face, and said "WE don't have to FOLLOW the law, we ARE the law."

The Bush escapades of the last eight years are simply a continuation and further extension of what REALLY goes on in America.

It all comes under the heading of people not believing it until it happens to them ... and by then it's too late.

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» RE: The Justice Department? Posted by: harryf200
The Fact of the Matter is the majority of those in the Legislative Branch...
Posted by: Quannah on Nov 28, 2008 1:12 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
have no interest in opening up this can of worms. They have no interest in seeing anyone in the Bush Junta prosecuted because, in the investigative process, the truth of their own complicity would be revealed.

They had their chance to do something. As we all watched, we saw they chose to do nothing. And that choice was not made to protect Bush, but to cover their own asses.

I expect nothing will be done. I say don't bother with any "Special Commission" which will have no teeth in it, nor will any crimes be prosecuted once discovered. (They admitted they have tortured at least three times!) That would be an even bigger slap in the face to those of us who seek justice for these criminals.

This is disgusting on so many levels.

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If Obama doesn't allow a prosecution, he's culpable...
Posted by: harryf200 on Nov 28, 2008 1:53 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If he can't be trusted to do the right thing here, can he be trusted with anything else?

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Far to many pressing problems on Obama's hands
Posted by: Greenhouse Neutral Foundation on Nov 28, 2008 2:51 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As important and depressingly sad this situation is, the new administration will need to look forward quickly to address the problems we are facing. Looking back can and will waste too much of the 20/20 foresight on far bigger issues.

Bob Williamson
www.strategicbookpublishing.com/ZEROGreenhouseEmissions.html

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Puhleeeeeze
Posted by: choirboy on Nov 28, 2008 7:07 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Get over it, people. You sure were rooting for W after he stood on that rubble pile with the fire chief after 9/11 and said "The people that did this will hear us soon" weren't you....go on admit it! And now you can't wait to crucify him??? No attacks since then. I can't wait till obama screws up, I really can't. What goes around WILL come around.

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» RE: Puhleeeeeze Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Puhleeeeeze Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: Puhleeeeeze Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Puhleeeeeze Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Puhleeeeeze Posted by: Quannah
» I mostly agree, but . . . Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: Puhleeeeeze Posted by: lenox
» RE: Puhleeeeeze Posted by: Von
Obama's First Priority: Protecting Clinton & Co.
Posted by: AlexLawyer on Nov 28, 2008 7:20 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush doesn't need to issue a de jure pardon for his accomplices, because Obama has already issued a de facto pardon. The new president will not pursue war and human rights criminals because that would implicate members of his new team, plus the husband of his secretary of state.

Bill Clinton's administration invented "extraordinary rendition," more prosaically known as kidnapping, forced disappearance, conspiracy to violate human rights and torture by proxy.

Any investigation, and subsequent prosecutions, cannot rely on a de facto statute of limitations for offenses prior to 20 January 2001, so Obama will scuttle the whole concepts of rule of law, accountability and respect for human rights. While he might halt the outrages, he will neither regain the respect of the world and the tolerance of our potential enemies by prosecuting the guilty, nor deter future wrongdoing.

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NOTHING SHORT OF LIFE IN PRISON FOR BUSH, CHENEY, ET AL!
Posted by: AlwaysAskWhy on Nov 28, 2008 8:57 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
IT IS OUTRAGEOUS TO THINK THAT BUSH AND CHENEY'S CRIMES OF TORTURE, ILLEGAL WAR-FOR-PROFIT (WHICH IS MASS MURDER!), LYING, TREASON (outing Valerie Plame), FRAUD, THEFT, ILLEGAL SURVEILLANCE -- AND COMMITTING THE DESPICABLE ACTS ON 9/11 (WE ALL KNOW THAT 9/11, A CRIME OF TERRORISM AND MASS MURDER AGAINST THIS NATION, IN ORDER TO TRY TO TAKE OVER THE MIDDLE EAST AND PROFIT FROM IT, WAS COMPLETELY AN INSIDE JOB!) -- WILL GO UNPUNISHED...OR EVEN UN-ACKNOWLEDGED!!! OUTRAGEOUS! MY GOD!! MY GOD!!

Any knowledgeable, intelligent human being... every federal official, particularly the next president, KNOWS THESE ARE WAR CRIMES, CRIMES AGAINST THE STATE, CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY!!! IMPEACHABLE, PROSECUTABLE CRIMES..PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

WE ARE A NATION OF LAWS...AND THE LAW HAS BEEN BROKEN...OVER AND OVER...ARROGANTLY AND WANTONLY. These crimes are the REASON the American People were DETERMINED to elect Obama...the hope that Bush and Cheney will be prosecuted!!! It is OUTRAGEOUS to think that Obama will tiptoe around it... FOR ANY REASON. NOTHING IS MORE IMPORTANT AT THIS MOMENT THAN TO SEE THESE MASS MURDERERS, THESE RAIDERS AND RAPERS OF THIS NATION AND THE WORLD, BEHIND BARS!! ANY LESS IS NOT ONLY A SLAP IN THE FACE OF ALL AMERICANS, BUT A CLUB OVER OUR HEADS! IT MAKES ME SICK TO MY STOMACH TO THINK THAT OBAMA WILL PROTECT AND DEFEND BUSH AND CHENEY!!!!! MY GOD!!!!

JESUS H. CHRIST!!! GEORGE W. BUSH, RICHARD CHENEY, CONDOLEEZA RICE, DONALD RUMSFELD, RICHARD MEYERS HAVE MURDERED OVER ONE MILLION HUMAN BEINGS!!!! MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN!!! AND DESTROYED NOT JUST ONE NATION, IRAQ, BUT AFGHANISTAN, AND DESTROYED THE UNITED STATES AND MANY OTHER COUNTRIES ECONOMICALLY!!!!

BUSH AND CHENEY (Rice, Rove, Ashcroft, Gonzalez, Libby, Pearle, Wolfowitz, Meyers, Rumsfeld) should ALL BE TRIED, CONVICTED AND SPEND THE REST OF THEIR LIVES IN PRISON... NO IFS, ANDS OR BUTTS.

If Barack Obama minces words, parses descriptions and legalities on these crimes.. trying to avoid accountability for the most despicable, destructive, violent, insane administration in the history of this nation.. then those Americans who elected him should be rioting in the streets... because surely WE ARE THEN A TRULY FASCIST NATION... WITH ALL THE DANGERS, DEATH, DESTRUCTION AND POVERTY/ STARVATION THAT WILL GO WITH IT. If Obama DOES NOT PROSECUTE, then HE SHOULD ALSO BE HELD, LIKE PELOSI, GUILTY OF COMPLICITY, GUILTY OF HARBORING CRIMINALS...GUILTY OF VIOLATING HIS OATH OF OFFICE, GUILTY OF TREASON AND WAR CRIMES!! THE BLOOD OF BLOWN UP BABIES IS DRIPPING THROUGH THEIR HANDS, TOO.

IF OBAMA IS TOO MUCH A COWARD TO PROSECUTE THESE SOCIOPATHS, THEN WE, AS A NATION, ARE COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY SCREWED. DEMOCRACY IS DEAD. THERE IS NOTHING LEFT IN OUR FUTURE, BUT POSSIBLY MASS VIOLENCE TO RECLAIM OUR NATION.

IS THAT WHAT OBAMA AND "HIS" MINIONS (LIKE CLINTON) WANT? REALLY?????

WILL WE EVER BE ABLE TO WAKE UP FROM THIS NIGHTMARE???

IMPEACHMENT AND PROSECUTION SAYS TO THE WORLD, "WE'RE SORRY!" PROBABLY THE ONLY APOLOGY THE WORLD WILL ACCEPT FROM THIS NATION OF SELF-INVOLVED, INDIFFERENT CITIZENS.

ARREST BUSH AND CHENEY (ET AL) NOW!!

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At the very least
Posted by: Jeanne on Nov 28, 2008 9:13 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It must be investigated -- fully. I don't know if this is special prosecutor territory, or if it can go straight to a regular criminal prosecutor, but it must be exposed to air and daylight. Those responsible for decisions and policy need to be named -- whether they are tried, convicted, and jailed, or simply exposed to the judgment of the world. The crimes committed in our names can not go unaddressed. The honor of our country and its citizens is at stake.

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» RE: At the very least join NIN Posted by: Darwin26
No Criminal Charges, but Civil Charges,
Posted by: MausMasher54 on Nov 28, 2008 9:41 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
for these "Elitest Scum". All criminal charges against these will be reversed by the "BushCo Supremes" via the appeals process, since it will be revealed behind closed hearings that all were accomplished via "Executive Priviledge". So, do as the Browns did versus OJ, sue in civil court. But...Not in just one state, file Class Action suits in each of the 50 United States and territories on behalf of the "We the People", for the wrongful deaths of the thousands of lost lives(American, Iraqi and others), the wrongful appropriation and misuse of taxpayers money(with little or no proper trustee/steward/guardianship of public funds). That should tie their assets up for the next couple of generations, since a civil case cannot be overturned by the "Supremes". Also, not just the BushCo Bunch, but the Wall-Street "Bank Robbers" as well at the same time. The jury awards should be astronimical and all could sign on to this via petition online. I challenge the President-Elect to add such a page at "www.change.gov".....ok, off my soap box now...just MHO..

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IS everyone just now waking Up? Or still dragging your asses?
Posted by: common intelligence on Nov 28, 2008 10:25 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most pessimistic hoopla I've heard.
I've been trying to amp you Alterneters for over 7 years.

SO many of us writing point hitting directly on nailing the whole administration for impeachment, 911, depleated uraniuam, Phosperous bombs, spying, braking constitutional law, ..my god YOu don't have enough evidence.? The congress has even said we do . But nothing is happening because you all are not hammering your reps for one and flooding the population, coffee shops.

The target is unity! '......Say what?
COngressmen (WOmen) are saying, "they don't want to push Impeachment because they believe it will do more to divide the country and right now we need to 'unity' " That's BULL SHIT.

Fact is they don't give-a-shit what we say. They aren't listening and are literally ignoring the real face of public demands and voices. The reason being , "they have their own agenda.

With people as Nancy Pelosi and Diane Feinstein agreeing but caving saying "it would only further divide US" we need to HAMMER divison if they don't impeach.
THIS IS THAT TARGET.
They have given us the go ahead but it's up to us to recognize the position we must take and PUSH PUSH PUSH.

YOU people are too frigging comfortable.

You have to get mad as hell stick you dead heads out the window and scream at the top of you lungs, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not gong to take it any longer".

Dennis Kucinich laid out a road map, Congressman Wexlar is riding point on Impeachment but you all voted for OBAMA!
What'd you think he was the holy grail?

We've got the tools to make this group of treasonous, pirates in jail.
The whole world knows it the congress knows it. The nation knows it.
STop letting the MSM railroad our country down the toilet.

This is the "school of rock". You people have no faith in yourselves. And unless we get every single peoson we know to sign , patitions, march on the nation, identify the BUSH attorneies, the whole leacherous banking sytem , Federal reserve coup d'tate' The pentagon, The CIA.

John F. Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy, Martin Luther KIng gave their lives for truth and true democracy. Jefferson, Eisenhower warned the people.
On and on. now hundreds of scholars, economists engineers, architects, social scientists, the very educated of this country know the truth.

Don't let "them" discount our education. We've had over eight years of learning what the fuck is going down. That's equivalent of a doctorate degree.
The US can only be united in true democracy with accountabiliity.

Don't give up, never give up. be relentless, enduring, like John Henry's hammer. Never stop pounding at the bastards.

Right now the media is distrating the nation with dramatic event happening around the world. Mean while we get mesmerized and loose track of our job right here.
DON"T LOOSE TRACK AND BE DISTRACTED. The BATTLE IS HERE>
NEVER FORGET IT, NEVER LET THE MEDIA GET YOU OFF BALANCE.

Don't let them weaken our strength just because you can't pay you rent , your mortgage etc.

Every single day write , scream, talk it up. This is our country no matter what.

Don't feel disempowered.
Do be self empowered
Dress for success over the system, the Bush Head, the cronies,
Don't let yourselves be overshadowed by deceat and lies and wars around the world. We are warriors here on the home front.
Pessimism is not acceptable. We don't need any more proof. We have all the proof.

We all know the truth. Come On. Crank up the amp !

NOW get out there and give'm hell like Harry Reid never though of.
Slam Nancy Pelosi,
Slam Diane Feinstein.
Slam all the bastards.

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Keep it going
Posted by: willymack on Nov 28, 2008 10:37 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And don't forget to go back to the beginning, the fraudulent "election" of 2000 (and 2004 as well). I think there's an excellent chance to prove election fraud in both instances and this proof would point to the fact that bush and his asshole buddies occupied their offices ILLEGALLY. That in and of itself should be enough to put them away for life.

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Liliana Segura, What do you suggest we do?
Posted by: common intelligence on Nov 28, 2008 10:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please read my Comment just above here.:
IS everyone just now waking Up? Or still dragging your asses?

Tere are so many criminal charges that can be made and as some in the system have said you quoted :"People say that prosecuting torture is 'looking backward,' " says Ratner, as I have said "but in my view, prosecutions are looking forward -- looking forward so that this doesn't happen again."

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One curious question......
Posted by: common intelligence on Nov 28, 2008 11:08 PM   
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How is it that Bill Clinton could be Impeached for Lying under oath yet Bush whom "Swore, under Oath" to up hold the Constitution is seemingly been over looked as an impeachable offence of total disregard for constitutional law?

Has anyone ever wondered why Kenneth Staar, prosecuting attorney with a vengence on Clinton has not been heard from in regard to the idea that he was in collusion with the NeoCon PNAC machine?

Why has this never been given any thought to? There has to be some sculldugery in the pit of that story that warrents investigation and in my opinion prosicution for extortion. DO you think Bill Knowthe story? and won't tell?

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» RE: One curious question...... Posted by: MausMasher54
» RE: One curious question...... Posted by: Darwin26
Need more ..............
Posted by: vot on Nov 28, 2008 11:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://vdare.com/roberts/081109_conned.htm

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then there are the People of Iraq
Posted by: Von on Nov 29, 2008 12:04 AM   
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IF,they were to be found guilty, there is a long list of damages that the People of Iraq needs to have justice on.

If anybody gives a care, go to arabwomanblues.blogspot.com and atleast read two posts. One is entitled HOME SWEET HOME and the other is BRAINDEAD

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The film that will put BUSH BEHIND BARS!!!
Posted by: grahamhgreen on Nov 29, 2008 12:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
|
The Torturer Movie
|

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No Witch Hunt
Posted by: robchapman on Nov 29, 2008 6:38 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ms. Segura writes as if the torture issue is a political one that can prosecuted or not depending on the partisan make-up of the current Administration.

It is vitally important that the Obama Administration reform our policies regarding hard interrogation.

All of the different aspects of the questions surrounding interrogation and torture must be considered at once. We must make a clear and meaningful stand and forbid torture. We must also provide for robust interrogation techniques that will elicit needed information regarding troop movements or terrorist plans.

We cannot continue this conversation as an either or proposition, both the civil liberties and the security aspects of interrogation and detention must be weighed and appropriate policies set in place.

Demagogic pictures and prose such as Ms. Segura's only inflame passions and make it harder to devise real world solutions for real world problems.

Robert Chapman
Lansing, NY

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» RE: No Witch Hunt Posted by: Lauren
We're not responsible --- if we revolt
Posted by: amacd on Nov 29, 2008 3:30 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since neither the executive, legislative, nor judicial branches of this 'Vichy' government, which really only acts as a facade of faux-democracy for the global criminal organization of the ruling-elite 'corporate financial Empire' controlling our country, actually represents the people of America, nor adheres to the U.S. Constitution, nor international law, nor the Geneva Convention, therefore, that just makes it that much more clear that when the bell tolls and these thieves, liars and murderers are finally judged, that the American people themselves, with clear conscious can, like the French people looking upon the shamed and guilty complicitous 'Vichy' traitors say, "Hang 'em all".

However, we can only say this with a clear conscious, and defend our moral compasses, if we have made every effort to circumvent the 'Vichy' government, resisted the 'Vichy' media's lies and deceptions, and have fully engaged, as our fore fathers did, in battling this guileful political economic empire within our own country and have given our last full measure of democratic blood in openly revolting against this murderous Empire that is speaking and acting against our interests but falsely in our name.

The redemption of the American people can only come before, and not after, this murderous ruling-elite fascist Empire have shot themselves and burned their bodies in a bunker awaiting an external corrective force.

As the old Fram oil-filter TV ad used say, "You can pay me now, or pay me later."

Will Americans allow themselves to be held complicit in the destruction of our world community?

Certainly, an American Constitutional lawyer and scholar should consider that solemnly.

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This is all worthless whining. We gotta start wheeling LEAD
Posted by: common intelligence on Nov 29, 2008 8:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
VIolent people only respect those that are stronger in position than they are.

They whole the throttle of this run-away train in their hands. We're all in the baggage car.

UNless the powers that control the MIC support the people and exposing the truth we haven't got a friggin icecubes chance in hell.
I'm getting stressed too much to worry for an out come that can't happen unless you people take up retalitory efforts to actually organize a mass of the population to control your representatives and senators.
Making them bring the issues up front and center.
Marx was right. "The only way to change the system is by a violent revolution or a slow metmorphosis". The slow way benefits no one alive. Times not on our side.

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And sheeple actually expect Obama Bush Clinton Peloski to change
Posted by: hilly7 on Nov 29, 2008 10:28 PM   
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Same agenda, just a little diver5sion, destination still programmed in. There wilol be change, just not the change we need.

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Impeach Pelosi First
Posted by: Darwin26 on Nov 29, 2008 10:32 PM   
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then Impeach the Leahey's and the anti-constitutionalists - those that will not be tough on crime = High Crimes and Misdemeanors to be precise. Why have a Constitution, Why have an Oath of Office that swears to up-hold and defend the basis of our democracy.
I'm sick of these apologists - they had no problem sending me off to die in Viet Nam but ask the Chumps like Conyers and to own up to Article II Section 4 of the Constitution is falling on deaf ears.
Thanks Scott for your article and Rattners article but we need ppl to fax and push the HJC to get Impeachment on the table.
See National Impeachment Network NIN@impeachforpeace.org >>> we are amassing another push during the lame duck session.

PS i read some guys pitch and the Jesus Almighty stuff really just creeps me out.

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SS
Posted by: Von on Nov 29, 2008 10:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fiz_2Jd9_MA&feature=related

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Not too late to impeach
Posted by: ImpeachmentDiane on Nov 30, 2008 3:25 AM   
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Obama and most Democrats in Congress are short-sighted and want to "make nice" to the criminals in the White House. That is dead wrong! The only way to ensure that Bush will not pardon the criminals, including himself, is to start impeachment proceedings immediately. It is commonly thought that it is too late to do that. It is probably too late to convict them, but not too late to start impeachment proceedings. The Constitution says that the only way the president can lose his pardoning power is "in cases of impeachment."

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No, we're not 'warlike by nature.'
Posted by: Longdream on Nov 30, 2008 6:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Have we forgotten why wars are fought? To enrich the rich on the backs of the young poor and of true patriots who are willing to risk their lives on the word of the aforesaid rich?

When I think of this country's "nature", I think of its people. And I think we've just proven that, after having a shitty taste of the war brew we've been given, everyone except the most mindless of us was eager to spit it out.

I don't think anyone here wouldn't like to see the people who did the shimmy and shake to rape us all get their hard comeuppance. But a realist will understand that there is a matter of priorities, now.

What do we need first? Cheney on the block, or health insurance that takes care of everyone? Bush made to eat shit, or new jobs?

I'm not trying to make false juxtapositions, but I am saying that sometimes, in an emergency environment, it's not possible to do every single thing we'd like to do. And we don't even know if the steps the new administration is planning will be able to keep our economy from collapsing. The truth is that NO ONE KNOWS.

I don't think that the reluctance to prioritize prosecution and punishment for the previous administration means that the transitional government has no commitment to justice. That's a highly prejudicial way to put the problem.

My attention is focused on the economy, the plight of the old poor and the new poor, foreign policy in our relationships with Israel vis a vis Muslim and Arab countries, the possibilities of intractable war if we don't handle said relationships brilliantly, the development of new technologies that will save our environment...fifty other priorities before I need to see the country's attention and resources arrested by Bush and Cheney for any more years.

Yes, I'd LOVE to see them broke and embarrassed. But not as much as I want to see people taken care of, and our country regain its footing in the world, and I'm not naive enough to think that we can do it all.

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Challenging Americans
Posted by: SEDGFLD on Nov 30, 2008 8:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Until Congress becomes unafraid of challenging Americans, media personalities and extremists, justice will never be served. As a result, this will go down as, historically, one of the most immoral times in this country, along with other incidents that have been "revised" in American history in order to help people live their fantasy of the perfect country.

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» RE: Challenging Americans Posted by: Longdream
Bush and his cronies need to be investigated!
Posted by: pana on Nov 30, 2008 4:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bush administration has been a joke. I would laugh except many horrors have been committed. Bush and his cronies need to be investigated, tried by a jury, and yes, put in jail.

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Is there any Justice left In America?
Posted by: Sheldonjohns on Nov 30, 2008 6:25 PM   
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I don't think team Obama will prosecute Bush and his cronies simply because so much injustice is happening in this country and no body is doing a thing to correct this problem. Please read my story and share it with others.

My family has suffered severely over the last 35 years from the hands of shadow predators masquerading as Psychiatrists, Physicians, Social workers, Teachers, Government officials and a host of other Professions in order to enact fear and paranoia in their savage campaign to gain control of my family’s mind and behavior thru their State sponsored unethical Human Research Programs.

It is a conspiracy that is so monstrous that no one would want to believe it actually happened. These Individuals operates with total Impunity with Gestapo like powers and they hide within our Government’s Administrations throughout this Country.

Thru prayer and countless research I discovered what I believe to be the truth of what has happened to my family. Base on uncanny similarities of victims of a secret Government program, Congressional Records and testimonials that can be substantiated through the Freedom of Information Act, I believe that my family has been targeted for Human Research thru an elaborate unethical program that changes its name often called MKULTRA.

It all started in the latter part of the 60’s when the Drew daycare facility that cared for my oldest sibling Ward Johnson, convinced my mother to enroll him into Dr. Margaret Lawrence of Harlem Hospital program for kids with special needs simply because he wouldn’t play with other kids – which they claimed.

A host of social workers and Dr. Lawrence eventually convinced my mother to enroll him into a special boarding school call Childville to correct his “problem” of playing by himself because they inform her that the board of education would not accept kids that are considered anti-social.

She was instructed to hold him out of school at the age of 6 and that they will provide her with a special school that would accept him and correct his “problem” of not wanting to play with other children.

In the summer of 1970 after Ward turn 7 years old he entered into Childville, a division of the Jewish child care association of New York City - Our lives has never been the same ever since his admission into that dreadful institution. It was there she found out that Ward was a prodigious savant who had incredible abilities... A fact that Dr. Lawrence hidden from her.

Shortly after his enrollment into Childville, Ward started to exhibit severe personality changes that alarmed my mother that made her wanting to remove him from their so call “boarding school.” - It was then that the staff of Childville informed my mother that my brother no longer belong to her because she signed away her parental rights to BCW, when she enrolled him into their program and that he now belong to the New York State Foster Care System.

My mother tried to get help as she fought valiantly for her son but the rogue elements within our Government flexed their muscle and utilized every agency imaginable in the City of New York to strip away her rights as they participated in this covert unethical experimentation of my brother.

My family has been terrorized and abused by these demented officials and physicians who all swore an oath to uphold the law and to protect and serve and preserve a human life.

Suddenly problems started to occur within our household as we became victims of repeated break-ins, vicious rumors and sabotage of reputation.

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Is there any Justice left In America? Part2
Posted by: Sheldonjohns on Nov 30, 2008 6:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is about the time that they went after my brother Trevis through a clandestine operation within the elementary school (public school 23) he attended. They covertly administered drugs to him while making him feel like it was his fault for being “a bad little boy.”

My mother was arrested after she “rescued” Ward from Childville by refusing to return him after a weekend visit - My brother’s and I was place into the custody of BCW because of the fact that she refuse to allow Childville to retain the parental rights to my brother Ward.

My brother’s and I were injected with some type of medication while in the custody of BCW after my mother's arrest in april of 1974. After that we all were diagnose with different types of physiological problems. My white blood cells became very low, Trevis started developing problems with his left eye (white mass bumps) and swelling in his left breast and Sean lost all the hair over his entire body.

Shortly afterwards, our problems escalated within our household as the vandalism intensified and we became the victim of gang stalking, rumors, harassment by housing employees and even betrayal by close friends and family members.

My mother has now become a target of psychological warfare from the conspirators as they focus their attention upon her to keep her quiet and occupied with problems.

Numerous attempts of witchcraft have been used to keep her psychological captive and manageable for their sadistic plot they had in store for her and her family. The harassment grew more bizarre and severe every time she reached out for help from the proper authorities.

She later found salvation in her newfound faith in Jehovah God, and was able to function with some sense of normalcy despite the many persecutions she experienced daily in everyday life. She had to endure further heartache when the conspirators turn their attention on her youngest son Sean whom they damaged severely with their behavioral modification program.

Trevis was severely damage by these predators as he was drugged thru the board of education, Children Services and when they rail-road him into prison - Where they expose him to untold persecutions and mind – altering Drugs. All this was done covertly without the consent of my mother.

I became “alienated” from my family because of the escalating trouble that we was having in our household and I began to rebel against my mother which force me into foster care at the tender age of 16. Once there they work feverishly to get me on mood- stabilizing medication and even threaten to withhold my allowance if I refuse to comply with their pharmaceutical regiment that they had laid out for me.

I refused to take the medication and went on to graduated with honors and started working in the construction business at the age of 18 after I finish school. I now realize that God preserved me for a purpose when he allowed me to be place into foster care and protected me from the human research predators – much like he allowed Joseph to be sold into Egypt and use him to protect his family and his people in a time of distress. Satan had Joseph brothers sell him into slavery for wickedness but God allowed it to happen for righteousness, because he had a purpose for Joseph.

My mother life seems to always be “troubled” and “busy” as she fought for the rights for her family. She didn’t even have the time to look into the huge amount of heir’s property that her late cousin (Wavy Lackey) promised her in Covington, Georgia which ended up in the hands of a powerful southern attorney by the name of Pat Campbell and an illegitimate relative name Lester Lackey.

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Is there any Justice left In America? Part3
Posted by: Sheldonjohns on Nov 30, 2008 6:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Was she recommended for this illegal program to distract her from her inheritance that her cousin promise her when he told her that he was going to leave her as the administrator of the Lackey Estates and train her sons in the family business?

Or was she just a victim of double jeopardy as she and my brother’s continue to be victimized and terrorized by numerous governmental agencies? Her problems took a turn for the worse when they turn their attention to my niece Geneva Johnson who was "legally" kidnap by family court Supervising Judge Susan K. Knipps and Children Services (ACS).

The Predators decided to go after my mother and try to give her a psych history in order to discredit her. They used my niece Geneva as a ransom to try to get my mother psychologically evaluated. They endangered the welfare of my niece and exposed her to untold horrors that any child shouldn’t have to endure. These individuals would go to any extremities to prove a point that doesn’t exist.

My brother Trevis started disclosing facts about what happened to him and wanted to take civil action against his predators. They found ways to make his case disappear and out-dated as they forced him into a residential home (Pilby) and continued their illegal experiments on him until the day that he died.

Was my brother murdered to keep him from talking about the years of ritual abuse and force medication that was done to him by rogue physicians operating with total impunity from someone within our Government?

Why did the Hospitals, NYPD, Paramedics, Social Workers and the Medical Examiners office demonstrate gross-negligence and deceit, leading up to the unusual events of my brother’s death?

Was this part of their “final solution” to rid themselves of members of my family… and if so, who’s next?

Who in our Government is allowing these Hitler like atrocities to take place on unsuspecting American Citizens violating every Human, Civil and Constitutional law of God and Man?

This is domestic terrorism of the worst kind and this is why this story must be made public and the guilty must stand trial for their crimes.

My family and countless others that the Government deems to be expendable may be the beginning of what some rogue officials have in store for America's future. Please don’t forget that this is still a government for the people and by the people. We must all work together to bring this story to the light to rid ourselves of this social cancer - Because today it’s my family that is suffering and tomorrow it may be yours. Please help spread the word by forwarding and signing the Petition below to end ALL Illegal Human Research Programs In America!

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/petition/293806954

Contact info: Sheldon Johnson 570-424-9432the_realdealoneal@yahoo.com

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Democrat or Republican.Two Labels on the SAME Vile Vial..
Posted by: joeocho88 on Dec 1, 2008 6:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You guys keep forgetting that the MEN who originally CREATED this Country and the CONSTITUTION that is supposed to govern it wanted to set themselves up as a small elite ARISTOCRACY of AUTOCRATS to rule over the rest of us not unlike the Gentry who issued the Magna Carta to another English king years before.

In those days,Women could not vote. African Americans could not vote, even the FREE BLACKS were harassed, and the Native Americans were being genocided off of land that was rightfully theirs.

THIS WAS GOVERNMENT FOR THE ARISTOCRACY,BY THE ARISTOCRACY and ALL BENEFITS ACCRUING TO THE ARISTOCRACY.

It was NEVER meant as a DEMOCRACY!

It took a LOT of ARM TWISTING and who knows WHAT to get a BILL OF RIGHTS that applied to ALL of us!

THIS WAS A FEUDAL SOCIETY BASED ON AGRICULTURE!
The descendants of these wealthy ARISTOCRATS and those who were devious enough to obtain the wealth to join them in their rarefied circles of power and influence CONTINUE to run this country.

No matter WHAT SUPERFICIAL LABEL they put on the outside, they have ALWAYS stuck together to maintain their power and influence and they always will.

Before you start praising Mr. Obama as being The MESSIAH or DIFFERENT from the usual, I suggest you run the genealogy and THEN tell me how DIFFERENT he really is.

I think he will be better than the open cesspools of corruption we have had but that won't take much...

WE ALL hope that he will do the right thing by us ORDINARY AMERICAN CITIZENS who are NOT in the ELITE RULING CLASS from the Northeastern region centers of power and influence.
WE ARE THE WORKER BEES FROM WHENCE THE TAX REVENUES THAT SUPPORT THESE POLITICAL SCHEMES COME AND IF WE DON'T HAVE JOBS, THEY DON"T HAVE REVENUE.

I guess they are so out of touch they FORGOT that one fact of life.

And angry, hungry people who do not have jobs might have the time to come together and realize what has happened and figure out a SOLUTION! It ALMOST happened in the 1930s but any World War that would presume to bail us out of our present economic malaise would destroy the planet...

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The only thing I can figure
Posted by: Chairman Matt on Dec 3, 2008 3:30 AM   
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As long as GW Bogus remains in office, he has the power to pardon. After Nixon, the power to pardon has grown to the point where GWB might be able to blanket pardon himself and get away with it, if only he were accused of something. As long as nobody is talking about prosecuting, there can be no pardons. I hope and pray that after Jan 20th investigators will be shocked, shocked to find out what kinds of shenanigans were going on, and rip these scumballs a new one legally.

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I already wrote the transition team on contact Obama and you should too
Posted by: cori on Dec 3, 2008 5:56 PM   
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For many reasons Bush and Chaney need to be held accountable to show the world that we are a civilized nation that respects the Geneva Convention and the rule of law. It is also important to show our enemies that we are not like them we are better and live by a higher moral standard. This is also important for the protection of our troops. If we torture so will they. It has been proven over and over that torture does not result in better intelligence. It only increases hatred towards our nation and perpetuates "terror" rather then help it to subside. But this is the plan. As long as we have terror the money flows, until of course we are so economically eviscerated that they can no longer rely on fabricated wars and the deaths of ten's of thousands of people to prop up their military empire. Of course there will always be people who will hate us but just as we funded the Kurds who now love us, to build their cities, they too would appreciate funds that would help their communities and people rather then destroy them.

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The continuing class war
Posted by: afrothetics2 on Dec 3, 2008 6:54 PM   
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Two of the most important tenets of the U.S. constitution it seems to me are: equal protection under the law and equal application of the law. Of course, this has never been happened in U.S. history, at least simultaneously with respect to race and class. And the political and economic elite have gotten away with the most extreme excesses. Obama campaigned on "changing the mindset" but has quickly retreated from this position. Calling his administration transformative because of his complexion is a grave error. After all, it took sellers and traders to make slave trading a symbiotic relationship. At best, his administration will be transitional as the demography of the U.S. is already shifting. Obama would not have won without the support of Hispanics and African Americans. These groups, however, should not expect his attention. Nothing in his campaign addressed the plight of the poor in the U.S. on "working Americans." Furthermore, history has many examples of individuals from a minority group advancing to a seat of authority being more rigid than those in the majority who they replaced, choosing to exemplify those "core values" that are the most regressive rather than progressive. Fear of failure is a powerful incentive. Too bad, because Obama can really make his mark in constitutional law and American history. Ironic, given that he has studied and taught constitutional law. But, has not really had to live as a "minority" despite his complexion.

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KARL ROVE ASSERTED THAT WHEN THEY SPOKE, HE AND BUSH, IT WAS HISTORY.
Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Dec 4, 2008 11:54 PM   
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For a brief time there was even truth to this. The republican majority in congress was so great that all they had to do was just anything that they liked. Occasionally, moderates accused them of breaking law and they would have the attorneys write up a new set of laws that suited their purposes. To the degree that they did this, they are untouchable.

There may be cases where they slipped up and did not rewrite the laws of the land to match their dictatorial delights. Were these laws constitutional? They were never reviewed. They are constitutional until they are reviewed and found otherwise. Besides with only one democrat on the supreme court review could only fall off to the right.

I would gladly support the impeachment of every justice that voted to stop the Florida recount in 2000. Is that going to happen? Probably not.

BUSH AND COMPANY PROBABLY GOT SLICK BY WITH EVERYTHING. I WOULD GLADLY SUPPORT THE HUNT FOR ANYTHING.

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Just cry me a river.
Posted by: sweetlilwookims on Dec 7, 2008 8:53 AM   
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Our country is messed up, we all know. And if you believe the North American Union theory, this is just a step towards the ultimate goal of a one world union. Just keep a stiff upper lip and serve GOD, it will be OK.

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