COMMENTS: 71
Do Women Have an Inner Glass Ceiling?
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These events are not imaginary, but something which happened to Darcy Burner and her family on the first of July. She took a campaign break of eighteen days. Eighteen days. Now that is some determination! We might even call this political ambition, a great desire to serve the public no matter what.
Burner is not the only woman who has demonstrated such stamina and focus in political life. Madeline Albright, the first female Secretary of State of the United States, once said that she wanted to do more than to just maintain the achievements of earlier Secretaries of State: she wanted to aim higher. Carol Moseley Brown had enough political ambition not only to become the first female African-American Senator in the United States Congress, but to run for the president of the United States. And we are all familiar with Hilary Clinton's recent presidential run and political ambition.
Yet Ruth Marcus, a Washington Post columnist, thinks that it is the lack of political ambition which keeps women away from participating in political life. It's not discrimination that keeps the number of American women in Congress at 16 percent; the problem, she writes, is that women have an "inner glass ceiling": a tendency to give up too soon and too easily, a tendency to shirk away from the feistiness of political battles, a tendency to underrate their own abilities.
Marcus learned this from a recent Brookings Institute study by Jennifer L. Lawless and Richard L. Fox, which is summarized like this: "In this report, we argue that the fundamental reason for women's under-representation is that they don't run for office. There is a substantial gender gap in political ambition; men tend to have it and women don't."
It's certainly a convenient conclusion -- If the reason for so few women in political decision-making roles is their own unwillingness to play the game, we as a society don't have to do anything to change the situation. It's up to women themselves to become more ambitious, and if they don't, well, perhaps it's all to do with biological differences between men and women. Right?
Caryl Rivers, a media critic, author and expert on the popularizations of gender science points out the great appeal of such explanations, especially now that the decoding of the human genome is in the news almost daily: "If you take the extreme view of gender differences as all biological, then if girls trail boys in math scores, say, no action is necessary. This despite the fact that Korean girls score higher than American boys."
Never mind if scientific studies show that things like the genetics of "political ambition" remain science-fiction; to appeal to biology allows us all not to worry about the effects of culture or gender roles in the division of labor. If glass ceilings are internal, then the problems belong to the individual women and individual women alone. Perhaps they are not problems at all, but Just The Way Things Are?
I almost hesitate to break the peace and comfort of that explanation, but break it I must, if not for any other reason than the one that the Lawless and Fox study isn't about "political ambition" in the colloquial sense of the term (how would one even go about measuring that?) but about studying the process, which leads a qualified individual to either decide to run for political office or not.
For this purpose, the study selected several thousand men and women from the fields that are usually seen as good launching pads for political careers -- law, business, education and political activism -- and then asked them questions about their political plans, attitudes and life situations, both in 2001 and in 2008.
The answers to these questions showed that equally qualified men and women may have different family responsibilities, different levels of external encouragement and support, different views about the political environment, different assessments about their own competence and different feelings about the negative aspects of campaigning. Some of these may be related to the way we usually understand the term "political ambition," but others have more to do with the institutional constraints of American politics or with socially accepted gender roles.
To give just one example of the latter, 60 percent of women with children in the study told the researchers that they were the primary caregivers for their children, while 60 percent of the men with children in the study described their partner as the primary caregiver. Given that all the study subjects already had careers, entering politics would mean a third job for these women but only a second job for the men.
The study design doesn't let us measure what the actual impact of the different family obligations might be, but Ilana Goldberg, whose organization She Should Run encourages women to run for elected office, says that the most common reason women give when deciding not to run for office is, "maybe when the children are all grown." This has nothing to do with "political ambition" -- rather, it has everything to do with cultural expectations about who is responsible for the children and who has a built-in support system.
Cultural expectations also influence the amount of encouragement that men and women receive in pursuing their political goals. According to the study results, men were more likely than women to have been encouraged to run both by people in politics and by their friends and families (though this difference was reduced in the most recent round of the study by the efforts of advocacy groups who contact and encourage qualified women to seek office). Still, as Sandeep Kaushik of Darcy Burner's campaign noted, it is not unusual for women who run and lose their first race to be told that they "have had their turn" and that they should relinquish further thoughts of running, to step aside and to let someone else have a chance. Such values are embedded in the culture, not in the woman's own political ambition. But their final impact might well be to make women less likely to stay in politics.
Let's add another layer of complication to the notion of an "internal glass ceiling" by noting that the United States ranks 68th in the world in the proportion of women in national legislatures. Either 67 countries have women with more ambitious genes or both cultural values and the institutional aspects of political systems matter. It also means that the United States could do a lot better in this particular international competition.
Multi-party countries tend to have more women in politics, and countries with long-standing traditions of women in politics (such as the Nordic countries) also have more women in elected office. Finnish political scientist Johanna Kantola, an expert on women and politics in Europe, notes that the very first parliament for which women were allowed to run (in 1907 Finland -- then a grand duchy of Russia)elected nineteen women out of a total of 200 representatives. That Finland a hundred years later has a female president and a parliament that is 42 percent female is therefore not that surprising. Change tends to happen slowly and cumulatively over time -- often with two steps forwards and one step back -- but imagine what might have happened if some enterprising Finnish journalist in 1907 had written about those nineteen women as a sign of women's lesser political ambition.
The United States doesn't have as long a history of women's participation in electoral politics. Ninety of the 246 women who have ever served in the U.S. Congress are current members; there are still Americans alive who were born before women had the right to vote. In short, the story of women's participation in the U.S. political scene is at its early stages, and it is far too premature to account for the dearth of women by using biological excuses.
But would such excuses have any place even if they were true? Suppose that women indeed were less eager to wage political warfare, less eager to fight negative campaigns, less thick-skinned altogether. Would that justify a collective shrugging of shoulders about the numbers of women in elected office? Or might we ask ourselves whether a representative democratic system can truly represent all of its citizens if the game itself is rigged in a way that only appeals to some of us? Is it really necessary to see politics as "war by other means" or to arrange politics in such a way that someone with childcare obligations cannot fully participate -- at least not without getting attacked for that very participation?
What is it that we might be losing if we decided on that course? Media critic Caryl Rivers says we might lose the life experience women have of the issues that tend to matter more for women than for men. "Because of the ways gender still affects our roles in life, women are more likely to pay attention to issues such as childcare and eldercare." We would lose certain points of view on matters that are brought up in the political process, and we might miss some important issues altogether. This will remain true as long as certain aspects of our life experiences are gendered, whether the reasons for such gendering are cultural or biological or both.
Anyone who followed the Clarence Thomas hearings in the early 1990s remembers that men and women had, on average, very different experiences and attitudes concerning the phenomenon of sexual harassment, and so one may also realize that a mostly-male Congress might not be the best body to create laws which reflect diverse perspectives.
Citizens of other countries have learned that much through experience. Kantola argues that in Finland, women's early participation in electoral politics influenced the introduction of a national pensions system and the public support of childcare in ways which might not have happened without the direct input from elected female representatives.
Still not convinced of the importance of having more women run for office in the United States? Then imagine this: Suppose that only 16 percent of U.S. Congresspeople were male, that only 18 percent of state governors were men, that men were a mere 24 percent of state legislators and only 10 percent of big-city mayors. Given that nearly 50 percent of all Americans are men, doesn't that sound pretty unrepresentative to you? Yet when the same numbers are applied to women (who are more than 50 percent of all Americans), we are willing to entertain the idea that women just lack "political ambition."
And what happens when women do have political ambition? They get the Hillary Clinton treatment. The calls for her to quit the Democratic Primary started early and grew louder over time. Andrew O'Hagan wrote in early April: "The people seem to know well enough, and the time has come for Hillary Clinton to show that her beliefs are stronger than her ambitions, by making way for the Democrat who can win the presidency." Anne Applebaum chimed in with this in May: "If you've found the election hard to follow of late, that's because the only real issue at stake is Hillary Clinton's extraordinary, irrational, overwhelming ambition."
Perhaps her ambition was labeled as "extraordinary and irrational" at least partly because women are not supposed to have it. "Nice" women are supposed to bow out when asked nicely. Isn't that the reason why it was so very easy for Ruth Marcus to misread the Brookings study as saying something about women's innate ambition rather than about the process by which people decide to run -- a process which presents different obstacles to men and women? Isn't that perhaps one reason why Hillary Clinton's determination to stay in the race caused so much rage on many blogs and in many columns? Political ambition is neither "nice" nor "ladylike."
We can't answer these questions on the basis of Clinton's media treatment alone. She is, after all, only one woman. Maybe other women will not be treated so harshly when they compete strongly in an equally important race. Certainly we'll get the answers in time, assuming that more and more women run for the highest electoral office. The catch-22, though, is that women across the country have seen how the media treated Clinton, and for women considering careers in politics, the threat of being treated similarly may be a significant deterrent. The Lawless and Fox study found that women are more likely than men to worry about the nasty aspects of political campaigns. What the study did not point out is that women may also be treated more nastily than men in those campaigns, if not by the competition, then by the press.
It could be that all women carry little glass ceilings inside their heads, which stop them reaching for the stars. It could be. But those glass ceilings are better understood as internalized knowledge about the very real cultural and gender-based obstacles women in American politics have to face. There are equality-minded women and men trying to remove some of the institutional blockades, and we can support those efforts through advocacy organizations such as the White House Project, She Should Run and Emily's List. These organizations encourage women to run and provide them with crucial information and support. They fill up the "encouragement gap" detailed in the Lawless and Fox study.
We can also work to make sure that women with children are not handicapped at the starting lines of the political races. We can make sure that childcare is available for all families and that reasonable working hours are mandated. We can provide alternative voices when the media portrays female politicians as poor mothers or when the criticism of a female politician has sexist undertones. We can cast a critical eye on various political customs and institutions and ask if they affect all politicians equally or if they were something created when politics was an all-male sport, with then unforeseen negative consequences for women running today.
All this will help to punch holes in those glass ceilings, whether internalized or not.
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Posted by: jwverez on Jul 30, 2008 12:35 AM
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Jul 30, 2008 2:29 AM
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You can go on all day about statistics, which are influenced by cultural factors, and any number of other factors. We seem obsessed with achieving parity in every field along gender, racial, and every other line. Good luck with that.
There will always be tendencies, but also exceptions. To me, parity is less important than supporting and protecting the short white woman who wants to play pro basketball, or the black woman with perfect teeth who wants to play hockey...or the 11-year-old Oriental genius kid who would rather play football than violin concertos.
Everyone should have a go at what they really want to do with their life, without a bunch of know-it-alls telling them what they should be. If they don't make it, at least they tried, and can look forward to spending the rest of their lives in a boring rat-race job, just like the rest of us.
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Posted by: Lauren on Jul 30, 2008 4:35 AM
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» So True!
Posted by: arieden
» RE: So False!
Posted by: AlRog
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Posted by: craigandrew on Jul 30, 2008 6:19 AM
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Have a nice day. C:)
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» RE: It's the structure.
Posted by: Love Me, I'm a Liberal
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Posted by: craigandrew on Jul 30, 2008 6:19 AM
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Have a nice day. C:)
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Posted by: cyr3n on Jul 30, 2008 8:00 AM
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"she writes, is that women have an "inner glass ceiling": a tendency to give up too soon and too easily, a tendency to shirk away from the feistiness of political battles, a tendency to underrate their own abilities."
This lady-author is obviously writing kaka to maintain her job stability. Proof positive that women are just as competative and prone to defending the status quo as men. Most career women have a ronin approach to their jobs. We're not as integrated or trusted by the male fraternities which dominate certain ol-boy professions.. including politics. It's not so much that these highly qualified women underestimate their own abilities, but we have to choose our battles wisely otherwise we'll be out of the game entirely. Women are not stupid. We're not going to jump into the fire pit to burn our bras.
As for a tendency to give up easily. Show of hands for how many MALE friends you know of that have given up on girlfriends or careers and succumbed to video-game-lala-land. Ok now raise you hand for every lady you know that's gone back to school despite unplanned pregnancy, worked over 2 jobs concurrently, and still manages to make time for coffee with friends. That's determination.
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» RE: i call this bullshit
Posted by: 6399
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Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Jul 30, 2008 8:02 AM
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Issues like childcare and lack of encouragement may very well be a factor in why women decided not to run for office but even those issues are ones that could be resolved.
The husband could become the primary care giver, women can learn not to follow along and be led like everybody else into doing what society expects.
I think there are some internal factors specifically due to biology that affect women entering politics.
Notice how men are said to take more risks than women.
You don't see as many women driving motorcycles as men, sky diving, base jumping, cliff diving, competing in the X Games, tuna fishing in the arctic, racing Indy or Nascar, playing Poker tournaments, or even the mundane, asking for phone numbers or first dates.
There seems to be an inherent biological aspect to risk taking, men seem to be more willing to take risks than women.
Men also seem to be more socially dominant than women. I suspect these 2 things contribute quite a bit to why there aren't as many women in politics as men.
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» Outer Factors Become Internalized
Posted by: mcubed
» RE: Outer Factors Become Internalized
Posted by: Crazy H
» The world needs more of you
Posted by: suprmark
» RE: Outer Factors Become Internalized
Posted by: wal55
» RE: Outer Factors Become Internalized
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: Outer Factors -Internalized- THANKS!
Posted by: mcubed
» RE: Internal Factors Probably Weigh More Heavily than External Factors with Women and Politics
Posted by: hagwind
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Posted by: Love Me, I'm a Liberal on Jul 30, 2008 8:12 AM
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» And men are not socialized to hate themselves too?
Posted by: Democratic Socialist
» And men are not socialized to hate themselves too?
Posted by: Democratic Socialist
» This self-esteem thing is a red herring
Posted by: hagwind
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Posted by: Urgelt on Jul 30, 2008 8:39 AM
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There aren't many janitors running for Senate.
There aren't many janitors taking bribes, either. We shouldn't forget that in our "democracy," far more than in other nations which lay claim to the word, our political process is rooted in money for favors.
We're agreed that women bear the brunt of child-rearing. We have quaint notions of how to do that in our culture: teaching ethical behaviors and convincing children to tell the truth and honor their promises, for example. These notions are culturally at odds with the way politics works in the US.
Contrast that with a career in the legal profession, which is where so many of our politicians get their start. With lawyers, who pays them determines which side of an argument they're on.
It might just be that women, after rearing children, are less corruptible. Less willing to be seen by their own children as unethical, untruthful, and dishonorable. Less eager to hold their noses and take bribes. If so, those women might either recoil from the prospect of a political life, or, in pursuing office, discover it to be incredibly difficult to build a competitive revenue stream.
In America, politics is all about the money.
Me, I think women would do better politically if we somehow found a way to clean up our politics and restore a true representative democracy. Yeah, we have other things to work on if we hope to establish gender equality in politics, but ending corruption isn't a bad place to start.
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» RE: Privilege, Corruption, and Gender
Posted by: Cathyblj
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Posted by: hagwind on Jul 30, 2008 11:53 AM
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Does this crap piss me off or what? A long-ago history professor used illustrate "tautology" with this example: "Sleeping pills work because of their soporific effect." All this says is that sleeping pills help you sleep because they're sleep-inducing.
Despite the changes of the last four decades or so, the U.S. workplace -- and that includes government offices at all levels -- remains mostly predicated on an old model: to be ambitious, to aspire to a career (as opposed to "just a job"), you need to have a support staff. In the old model, the support staff was usually the wife. The wife wasn't just keeping the home fires burning. The wife was hosting dinner parties and otherwise helping her ambitious husband make the connections that could help him get ahead. Ambitious women need a support staff too. In the old days middle-class-and-up men could take it for granted that their wives would be their support staff. They didn't have to worry about whether they could combine marriage and a career, or parenthood and a career. Of course they could! Wasn't that what women were for?
Some ambitious, high-achieving women get enough support from spouse and family to pull this off, but in most cases they have to hire a support staff. If you're an ambitious high-achiever and you know you'll need to hire other people to look after your kids and your house -- well, elective office doesn't pay nearly as well as other things you could do, and running for elective office is downright expensive. Not to mention, who the hell needs the get-a-life media sniffing around to make sure you've paid Social Security taxes for your nanny?
We could also stand to take a closer look at merits of running for and holding elective office. If you're interested in advancing the position of women, say, or in saving the country from the idiots who are running it now, is running for and holding elective office the only way to do it? the best way? Maybe it's just a big boondoggle that drains you dry and doesn't accomplish much in return. Maybe we've got a catch-22 going here: if you're ambitious for elective office, that means you shouldn't hold elective office, but if you have no interest in running, that means you're qualified for the job.
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» RE: "The personal is political" doesn't mean it's all inside our head
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: "The personal is political" doesn't mean it's all inside our head
Posted by: hagwind
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Posted by: Q30 on Jul 30, 2008 1:13 PM
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That's nuanced enough to not piss-off the Alternet females, at least.
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» Oh, like, wow! Another nuanced comment by Q30!
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Oh, like, wow! Another nuanced comment by Q30!
Posted by: Cathyblj
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Posted by: Crazy H on Jul 30, 2008 1:34 PM
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We have a tendency to elect "leaders" (AKA "self-important grand-standers") to congress - and so we get debates on "my way or the highway" rather than "how do we make this work for everybody?"
Yeah, you're up against a good-ol-boy system, but dang-gone it, you're also 51% of the electorate.
Run, Jane, run!
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Posted by: drricklippin on Jul 30, 2008 2:10 PM
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I am for women leaders and men with qualities of females taking over despite Schwarzenegger's ignorant Neandrathal-testosterone poisoned- "girlie men" comments.
Yes we are a VERY immature nation about this issue also.
I delivered a speech on women leaders in the workplace in 2000 for your interest.
Thanks
Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa
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» RE: THE RISE OF THE FEMININE (CAPITAL "F")....
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» RE: THE RISE OF THE FEMININE (CAPITAL "F")....
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» The Best Boss I Ever Had Was a Woman
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» I'm a lucky man - because a Doctor saved my life
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» RE: I'm a lucky man - because a Doctor saved my life
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» I Wasn't Exactly Hiding It - I Had a T-Shirt
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» RE: I'm a lucky man - because a Doctor saved my life
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Posted by: nfamous on Jul 30, 2008 2:57 PM
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Posted by: Democratic Socialist on Jul 30, 2008 3:03 PM
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She and her family were lucky to escape with their lives. Many other American politicans and public figures too openly or publicly critical of Israel and The Lobby aren't as lucky.
Since the 'accident,' methinks she has been keeping her mouth shut regarding the very close relationship between Israel and America.
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Posted by: lindat on Jul 30, 2008 3:06 PM
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» RE: Poor, poor women.
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Poor, poor women.
Posted by: MartianBachelor
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Posted by: Joe on Jul 30, 2008 4:06 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
come on, right?
right?
right?
right?
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Posted by: opmoc on Jul 30, 2008 4:14 PM
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We ENJOYED living in a Tent
It was only 6 nights
We are now back in our home
Nothing got nicked - and everyone we met whilst we were camping were wonderful apart from two fascist security guards
All the rest of them were great
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Posted by: GuitarBill on Jul 30, 2008 4:37 PM
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Perhaps they do.
But perhaps we're witnessing something else?
In most instances the path to power involves, to varying degrees, participation in some form of corruption. There are many examples of women who have breached the "glass ceiling": Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, Carly Fiorina, Madeleine Albright and Cathleen P. Black, to name only a few examples.
I'm sure we can agree that each of the women mentioned above are of less than sterling character.
So, perhaps we're witnessing something else entirely?
Perhaps women are unwilling to participate in a corrupt and unjust power structure? And if so, isn't this a good thing? Does this not reflect well on women? I think it does.
Perhaps we should celebrate the inherent incorruptibility of the majority of women, rather than lamenting a glass ceiling that may or may not exist?
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» RE: Here's a radical idea for you.
Posted by: AlRog
» RE: Here's a radical idea for you.
Posted by: GuitarBill
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Posted by: leta on Jul 30, 2008 11:12 PM
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» RE: Do women have an internal glass floor?
Posted by: yale
» Why yes
Posted by: Q30
» RE: Do women have an internal glass floor?
Posted by: 6399
» ... and cleaning bathrooms?
Posted by: MsM
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Posted by: AlRog on Jul 31, 2008 9:30 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, women DO have an "internal glass ceiling" and it IS biological. There are two obvious reasons why men are more ambitious and more likely to hold power.
1. It's called Testosterone. Ever heard of it?
2. Unfortunately, men are under far more pressure to achieve success and power in our culture. Men's value is judged by their level of success, women's isn't. Unlike your Finnish example, here in the US men are forced into the rat race, women have the luxury to choose whether they want to race or not. (this is probably why women live so much longer)
Think about it: If a 35-yr old woman has a job making under $15,000 a year it's not seen as a flaw in character or judgement. It's ok. But if a man the same age has the same income then he's seen as a loser and/or something must be wrong with him. And women will find him undesirable as a mate.
As for the argument that society pushes women to be the stay-at-home parent, I'm calling bullshit on this one as well. I've met enough mothers to know that women gladly CHOOSE to prioritize childcare over career. Again, it's biological.
So it's about time we stopped blaming the boogeyman of male sexism for these gender disparities. Yes, there is still some sexism out there but it's rare. Certainly far less institutionalized than it was 50-60 years ago. Seriously, where are all these evil sexist men conspiring to keep women down??? I never meet them. They never talk to me. Honestly, I never hear modern men argue in favor of patriarchy and against sharing power with women. When the subject's brought up, most men think sharing power with women is a great idea!
Women need to start being honest with themselves and take responsibility for their part in maintaining these power disparities. Only then will we start to see some honest female-empowering change.
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» RE: The coward who rated this a 1
Posted by: AlRog
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Posted by: kerrywessell on Jul 31, 2008 10:57 AM
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I guess my main points would be that the original article NEVER EVER stated that women are genetically incapable. And if there were ever a strong implication of such, it only exists as such out of context. Granted, the article's tone certainly sounded conservative, but basically it said, as I understood it, women aren't in a political office as much because of social norms and constraints, and accepting those roles (as most people do, which I think to do without reflection is dangerous). You know, like patriarchy or babies. Which as an observation is true.
As I see it, it doesn't mean anything more or less than this.
As another commentator essentially was saying, it doesn't mean it (1) can't change into something that you would perceive as being (a) better or (b) worse, or (2) that it will change. So, though I have to agree the Washington Post article sounded ridiculous, logistically, I didn't find anything "wrong" with it.
Maybe I am misremembering. In any case....
Lastly, I would say an inner glass ceiling is a poor analogy or symbol. It's more like a Wal*Mart-bought piece of wax paper. Though women DO have an inner ceiling. You know, the same one that men have. You know, like the limits of being a human being. That'd most certainly agree with.
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Posted by: Nightstallion on Jul 31, 2008 11:04 AM
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I am so tired of these macho Iron pumping, testosterone shooting, adrenaline charging, holier than thou know it all gasbags I could puke on the board meeting desk. I come by this emotion honestly having been one myself, much to my chagrin. Brain function and progress are inversely affected by the amount of testosterone present.
What it really is: Lack of native intelligence. To establish the I.Q. of any board is simple add all the individual Quotients together, establish a mean median in the usual way then divide again by the number of active board members! Any fool can see what the result is going to be. A creature with barely enough intellectual power to find a corner to defecate in!
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Posted by: JakobFabian01 on Aug 1, 2008 7:57 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I cannot agree with commentators who whine that Goodrich "blames men." Nowhere in her article does Goodrich propose that men alone are to blame for the theory that "low political ambition" fully accounts for women's lack of success in politics and therefore justifies it as "natural." Rather, she attacks this pseudo-biological theory as both counter-factual and counter-productive. And I believe she emerges victorious from the fight.
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» RE: Good, constructive criticism -NOT
Posted by: AlRog
» RE: AlRog, I think you found the coward
Posted by: skipp
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Posted by: Virginia Harris on Aug 4, 2008 6:10 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is a new and exhaustively researched historical e-mail series that goes behind the scenes in the lives of eight well-known women from 1912 to 1920 to reveal the sexy, shocking truth of HOW the suffragettes won the vote.
Presented via e-mail in a unique, sequential, interwoven short-story format called Coffeebreak Readers - it makes discovering the delightful heroines of women's suffrage history easy and fun!
The women depicted include two of the most beautiful and outspoken suffragettes -- Alice Paul and Emmeline Pankhurst, along with Edith Wharton, Isadora Duncan, Alice Roosevelt, and two stunning presidential mistresses.
There are weddings and funerals, babies in peril, damsels in distress, war, peace, broken hearts and lots of hot affairs on the rocky road to the ballot box.
The best part is it's ALL true!
Each action-packed e-mail episode takes about 10 minutes to read, so they are perfect to enjoy on coffeebreaks, or anytime.
You can subscribe to receive free twice-weekly e-mails at:
http://www.CoffeebreakReaders.com/tpovpage.html
I would be interested to hear your opinion on the series should you choose to subscribe.
Best to you,
Virginia Harris
Series Author
Publisher
www.CoffeebreakReaders.com
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Posted by: Donna_Darko on Aug 6, 2008 7:22 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Donna_Darko on Aug 6, 2008 7:29 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's just no MEANS to get money and power. It's usually THROUGH men.
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» RE: The same means that men have
Posted by: AlRog
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Hirshman on Aug 7, 2008 8:29 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"During his brief Senate career, he'd leaned on Karen Kornbluh, an accomplished writer on social welfare issues, to develop his policy ideas. She ran what amounted to an ongoing intellectual salon out of his Senate office, an effort that produced a series of major speeches and, eventually, the core ideas in Obama's The Audacity of Hope, which outlined his policy agenda in embryonic form. But it was one thing to preach about these ideas as an extremely junior senator in the minority party; it was quite another to flesh them out and defend them as a presidential candidate with a real shot at the White House."
Here's the real kicker: "And Kornbluh, citing the strain a presidential campaign puts on one's family, did not follow Obama to Chicago."
Unjust private world, unjust public world.
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Posted by: jwverez on Jul 30, 2008 12:35 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Jul 30, 2008 2:29 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You can go on all day about statistics, which are influenced by cultural factors, and any number of other factors. We seem obsessed with achieving parity in every field along gender, racial, and every other line. Good luck with that.
There will always be tendencies, but also exceptions. To me, parity is less important than supporting and protecting the short white woman who wants to play pro basketball, or the black woman with perfect teeth who wants to play hockey...or the 11-year-old Oriental genius kid who would rather play football than violin concertos.
Everyone should have a go at what they really want to do with their life, without a bunch of know-it-alls telling them what they should be. If they don't make it, at least they tried, and can look forward to spending the rest of their lives in a boring rat-race job, just like the rest of us.
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Posted by: Lauren on Jul 30, 2008 4:35 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» So True!
Posted by: arieden
» RE: So False!
Posted by: AlRog
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Posted by: craigandrew on Jul 30, 2008 6:19 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Have a nice day. C:)
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» RE: It's the structure.
Posted by: Love Me, I'm a Liberal
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Posted by: craigandrew on Jul 30, 2008 6:19 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Have a nice day. C:)
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Posted by: cyr3n on Jul 30, 2008 8:00 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"she writes, is that women have an "inner glass ceiling": a tendency to give up too soon and too easily, a tendency to shirk away from the feistiness of political battles, a tendency to underrate their own abilities."
This lady-author is obviously writing kaka to maintain her job stability. Proof positive that women are just as competative and prone to defending the status quo as men. Most career women have a ronin approach to their jobs. We're not as integrated or trusted by the male fraternities which dominate certain ol-boy professions.. including politics. It's not so much that these highly qualified women underestimate their own abilities, but we have to choose our battles wisely otherwise we'll be out of the game entirely. Women are not stupid. We're not going to jump into the fire pit to burn our bras.
As for a tendency to give up easily. Show of hands for how many MALE friends you know of that have given up on girlfriends or careers and succumbed to video-game-lala-land. Ok now raise you hand for every lady you know that's gone back to school despite unplanned pregnancy, worked over 2 jobs concurrently, and still manages to make time for coffee with friends. That's determination.
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» RE: i call this bullshit
Posted by: 6399
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Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Jul 30, 2008 8:02 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Issues like childcare and lack of encouragement may very well be a factor in why women decided not to run for office but even those issues are ones that could be resolved.
The husband could become the primary care giver, women can learn not to follow along and be led like everybody else into doing what society expects.
I think there are some internal factors specifically due to biology that affect women entering politics.
Notice how men are said to take more risks than women.
You don't see as many women driving motorcycles as men, sky diving, base jumping, cliff diving, competing in the X Games, tuna fishing in the arctic, racing Indy or Nascar, playing Poker tournaments, or even the mundane, asking for phone numbers or first dates.
There seems to be an inherent biological aspect to risk taking, men seem to be more willing to take risks than women.
Men also seem to be more socially dominant than women. I suspect these 2 things contribute quite a bit to why there aren't as many women in politics as men.
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» Outer Factors Become Internalized
Posted by: mcubed
» RE: Outer Factors Become Internalized
Posted by: Crazy H
» The world needs more of you
Posted by: suprmark
» RE: Outer Factors Become Internalized
Posted by: wal55
» RE: Outer Factors Become Internalized
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: Outer Factors -Internalized- THANKS!
Posted by: mcubed
» RE: Internal Factors Probably Weigh More Heavily than External Factors with Women and Politics
Posted by: hagwind
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Posted by: Love Me, I'm a Liberal on Jul 30, 2008 8:12 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» And men are not socialized to hate themselves too?
Posted by: Democratic Socialist
» And men are not socialized to hate themselves too?
Posted by: Democratic Socialist
» This self-esteem thing is a red herring
Posted by: hagwind
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Posted by: Urgelt on Jul 30, 2008 8:39 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There aren't many janitors running for Senate.
There aren't many janitors taking bribes, either. We shouldn't forget that in our "democracy," far more than in other nations which lay claim to the word, our political process is rooted in money for favors.
We're agreed that women bear the brunt of child-rearing. We have quaint notions of how to do that in our culture: teaching ethical behaviors and convincing children to tell the truth and honor their promises, for example. These notions are culturally at odds with the way politics works in the US.
Contrast that with a career in the legal profession, which is where so many of our politicians get their start. With lawyers, who pays them determines which side of an argument they're on.
It might just be that women, after rearing children, are less corruptible. Less willing to be seen by their own children as unethical, untruthful, and dishonorable. Less eager to hold their noses and take bribes. If so, those women might either recoil from the prospect of a political life, or, in pursuing office, discover it to be incredibly difficult to build a competitive revenue stream.
In America, politics is all about the money.
Me, I think women would do better politically if we somehow found a way to clean up our politics and restore a true representative democracy. Yeah, we have other things to work on if we hope to establish gender equality in politics, but ending corruption isn't a bad place to start.
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» RE: Privilege, Corruption, and Gender
Posted by: Cathyblj
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Posted by: hagwind on Jul 30, 2008 11:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does this crap piss me off or what? A long-ago history professor used illustrate "tautology" with this example: "Sleeping pills work because of their soporific effect." All this says is that sleeping pills help you sleep because they're sleep-inducing.
Despite the changes of the last four decades or so, the U.S. workplace -- and that includes government offices at all levels -- remains mostly predicated on an old model: to be ambitious, to aspire to a career (as opposed to "just a job"), you need to have a support staff. In the old model, the support staff was usually the wife. The wife wasn't just keeping the home fires burning. The wife was hosting dinner parties and otherwise helping her ambitious husband make the connections that could help him get ahead. Ambitious women need a support staff too. In the old days middle-class-and-up men could take it for granted that their wives would be their support staff. They didn't have to worry about whether they could combine marriage and a career, or parenthood and a career. Of course they could! Wasn't that what women were for?
Some ambitious, high-achieving women get enough support from spouse and family to pull this off, but in most cases they have to hire a support staff. If you're an ambitious high-achiever and you know you'll need to hire other people to look after your kids and your house -- well, elective office doesn't pay nearly as well as other things you could do, and running for elective office is downright expensive. Not to mention, who the hell needs the get-a-life media sniffing around to make sure you've paid Social Security taxes for your nanny?
We could also stand to take a closer look at merits of running for and holding elective office. If you're interested in advancing the position of women, say, or in saving the country from the idiots who are running it now, is running for and holding elective office the only way to do it? the best way? Maybe it's just a big boondoggle that drains you dry and doesn't accomplish much in return. Maybe we've got a catch-22 going here: if you're ambitious for elective office, that means you shouldn't hold elective office, but if you have no interest in running, that means you're qualified for the job.
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» RE: "The personal is political" doesn't mean it's all inside our head
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: "The personal is political" doesn't mean it's all inside our head
Posted by: hagwind
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Posted by: Q30 on Jul 30, 2008 1:13 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's nuanced enough to not piss-off the Alternet females, at least.
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» Oh, like, wow! Another nuanced comment by Q30!
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Oh, like, wow! Another nuanced comment by Q30!
Posted by: Cathyblj
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Posted by: Crazy H on Jul 30, 2008 1:34 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have a tendency to elect "leaders" (AKA "self-important grand-standers") to congress - and so we get debates on "my way or the highway" rather than "how do we make this work for everybody?"
Yeah, you're up against a good-ol-boy system, but dang-gone it, you're also 51% of the electorate.
Run, Jane, run!
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Posted by: drricklippin on Jul 30, 2008 2:10 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am for women leaders and men with qualities of females taking over despite Schwarzenegger's ignorant Neandrathal-testosterone poisoned- "girlie men" comments.
Yes we are a VERY immature nation about this issue also.
I delivered a speech on women leaders in the workplace in 2000 for your interest.
Thanks
Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa
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» RE: THE RISE OF THE FEMININE (CAPITAL "F")....
Posted by: logic
» RE: THE RISE OF THE FEMININE (CAPITAL "F")....
Posted by: drricklippin
» The Best Boss I Ever Had Was a Woman
Posted by: opmoc
» RE: The Best Boss I Ever Had Was a Woman
Posted by: drricklippin
» I'm a lucky man - because a Doctor saved my life
Posted by: opmoc
» RE: I'm a lucky man - because a Doctor saved my life
Posted by: opmoc
» I Wasn't Exactly Hiding It - I Had a T-Shirt
Posted by: opmoc
» RE: I'm a lucky man - because a Doctor saved my life
Posted by: drricklippin
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Posted by: nfamous on Jul 30, 2008 2:57 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Democratic Socialist on Jul 30, 2008 3:03 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She and her family were lucky to escape with their lives. Many other American politicans and public figures too openly or publicly critical of Israel and The Lobby aren't as lucky.
Since the 'accident,' methinks she has been keeping her mouth shut regarding the very close relationship between Israel and America.
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Posted by: lindat on Jul 30, 2008 3:06 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Poor, poor women.
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Poor, poor women.
Posted by: MartianBachelor
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Joe on Jul 30, 2008 4:06 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
come on, right?
right?
right?
right?
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Posted by: opmoc on Jul 30, 2008 4:14 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We ENJOYED living in a Tent
It was only 6 nights
We are now back in our home
Nothing got nicked - and everyone we met whilst we were camping were wonderful apart from two fascist security guards
All the rest of them were great
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Posted by: GuitarBill on Jul 30, 2008 4:37 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Perhaps they do.
But perhaps we're witnessing something else?
In most instances the path to power involves, to varying degrees, participation in some form of corruption. There are many examples of women who have breached the "glass ceiling": Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, Carly Fiorina, Madeleine Albright and Cathleen P. Black, to name only a few examples.
I'm sure we can agree that each of the women mentioned above are of less than sterling character.
So, perhaps we're witnessing something else entirely?
Perhaps women are unwilling to participate in a corrupt and unjust power structure? And if so, isn't this a good thing? Does this not reflect well on women? I think it does.
Perhaps we should celebrate the inherent incorruptibility of the majority of women, rather than lamenting a glass ceiling that may or may not exist?
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» RE: Here's a radical idea for you.
Posted by: AlRog
» RE: Here's a radical idea for you.
Posted by: GuitarBill
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Posted by: leta on Jul 30, 2008 11:12 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Do women have an internal glass floor?
Posted by: yale
» Why yes
Posted by: Q30
» RE: Do women have an internal glass floor?
Posted by: 6399
» ... and cleaning bathrooms?
Posted by: MsM
Comments are closed-
Posted by: AlRog on Jul 31, 2008 9:30 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, women DO have an "internal glass ceiling" and it IS biological. There are two obvious reasons why men are more ambitious and more likely to hold power.
1. It's called Testosterone. Ever heard of it?
2. Unfortunately, men are under far more pressure to achieve success and power in our culture. Men's value is judged by their level of success, women's isn't. Unlike your Finnish example, here in the US men are forced into the rat race, women have the luxury to choose whether they want to race or not. (this is probably why women live so much longer)
Think about it: If a 35-yr old woman has a job making under $15,000 a year it's not seen as a flaw in character or judgement. It's ok. But if a man the same age has the same income then he's seen as a loser and/or something must be wrong with him. And women will find him undesirable as a mate.
As for the argument that society pushes women to be the stay-at-home parent, I'm calling bullshit on this one as well. I've met enough mothers to know that women gladly CHOOSE to prioritize childcare over career. Again, it's biological.
So it's about time we stopped blaming the boogeyman of male sexism for these gender disparities. Yes, there is still some sexism out there but it's rare. Certainly far less institutionalized than it was 50-60 years ago. Seriously, where are all these evil sexist men conspiring to keep women down??? I never meet them. They never talk to me. Honestly, I never hear modern men argue in favor of patriarchy and against sharing power with women. When the subject's brought up, most men think sharing power with women is a great idea!
Women need to start being honest with themselves and take responsibility for their part in maintaining these power disparities. Only then will we start to see some honest female-empowering change.
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» RE: The coward who rated this a 1
Posted by: AlRog
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Posted by: kerrywessell on Jul 31, 2008 10:57 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess my main points would be that the original article NEVER EVER stated that women are genetically incapable. And if there were ever a strong implication of such, it only exists as such out of context. Granted, the article's tone certainly sounded conservative, but basically it said, as I understood it, women aren't in a political office as much because of social norms and constraints, and accepting those roles (as most people do, which I think to do without reflection is dangerous). You know, like patriarchy or babies. Which as an observation is true.
As I see it, it doesn't mean anything more or less than this.
As another commentator essentially was saying, it doesn't mean it (1) can't change into something that you would perceive as being (a) better or (b) worse, or (2) that it will change. So, though I have to agree the Washington Post article sounded ridiculous, logistically, I didn't find anything "wrong" with it.
Maybe I am misremembering. In any case....
Lastly, I would say an inner glass ceiling is a poor analogy or symbol. It's more like a Wal*Mart-bought piece of wax paper. Though women DO have an inner ceiling. You know, the same one that men have. You know, like the limits of being a human being. That'd most certainly agree with.
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Posted by: Nightstallion on Jul 31, 2008 11:04 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am so tired of these macho Iron pumping, testosterone shooting, adrenaline charging, holier than thou know it all gasbags I could puke on the board meeting desk. I come by this emotion honestly having been one myself, much to my chagrin. Brain function and progress are inversely affected by the amount of testosterone present.
What it really is: Lack of native intelligence. To establish the I.Q. of any board is simple add all the individual Quotients together, establish a mean median in the usual way then divide again by the number of active board members! Any fool can see what the result is going to be. A creature with barely enough intellectual power to find a corner to defecate in!
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Posted by: JakobFabian01 on Aug 1, 2008 7:57 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I cannot agree with commentators who whine that Goodrich "blames men." Nowhere in her article does Goodrich propose that men alone are to blame for the theory that "low political ambition" fully accounts for women's lack of success in politics and therefore justifies it as "natural." Rather, she attacks this pseudo-biological theory as both counter-factual and counter-productive. And I believe she emerges victorious from the fight.
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» RE: Good, constructive criticism -NOT
Posted by: AlRog
» RE: AlRog, I think you found the coward
Posted by: skipp
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Virginia Harris on Aug 4, 2008 6:10 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is a new and exhaustively researched historical e-mail series that goes behind the scenes in the lives of eight well-known women from 1912 to 1920 to reveal the sexy, shocking truth of HOW the suffragettes won the vote.
Presented via e-mail in a unique, sequential, interwoven short-story format called Coffeebreak Readers - it makes discovering the delightful heroines of women's suffrage history easy and fun!
The women depicted include two of the most beautiful and outspoken suffragettes -- Alice Paul and Emmeline Pankhurst, along with Edith Wharton, Isadora Duncan, Alice Roosevelt, and two stunning presidential mistresses.
There are weddings and funerals, babies in peril, damsels in distress, war, peace, broken hearts and lots of hot affairs on the rocky road to the ballot box.
The best part is it's ALL true!
Each action-packed e-mail episode takes about 10 minutes to read, so they are perfect to enjoy on coffeebreaks, or anytime.
You can subscribe to receive free twice-weekly e-mails at:
http://www.CoffeebreakReaders.com/tpovpage.html
I would be interested to hear your opinion on the series should you choose to subscribe.
Best to you,
Virginia Harris
Series Author
Publisher
www.CoffeebreakReaders.com
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Posted by: Donna_Darko on Aug 6, 2008 7:22 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Donna_Darko on Aug 6, 2008 7:29 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's just no MEANS to get money and power. It's usually THROUGH men.
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» RE: The same means that men have
Posted by: AlRog
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Hirshman on Aug 7, 2008 8:29 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"During his brief Senate career, he'd leaned on Karen Kornbluh, an accomplished writer on social welfare issues, to develop his policy ideas. She ran what amounted to an ongoing intellectual salon out of his Senate office, an effort that produced a series of major speeches and, eventually, the core ideas in Obama's The Audacity of Hope, which outlined his policy agenda in embryonic form. But it was one thing to preach about these ideas as an extremely junior senator in the minority party; it was quite another to flesh them out and defend them as a presidential candidate with a real shot at the White House."
Here's the real kicker: "And Kornbluh, citing the strain a presidential campaign puts on one's family, did not follow Obama to Chicago."
Unjust private world, unjust public world.
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Updated: Catholic Bishops Embrace Anti-Abortion Terrorizers Missy Smith and Randall Terry
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