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Reproductive Justice and Gender

Population: What to Do When There Are Too Many of Us

By Robert Engelman, Island Press. Posted June 10, 2008.


The author of "More: Population, Nature, and What Women Want" writes that we can tackle a population-induced environmental crisis by empowering women.
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Editor's Note: The following is an excerpt from More: Population, Nature, and What Women Want by Robert Engelman. Copyright 2008 by the author. Reproduced by permission of Island Press, Washington, D.C.

All historical eras are shaped by the material and environmental realities of their time. Our own reflects the adjustments society and nature have made to accommodate the unprecedented 6.7 billion human beings now alive. And those changes are dramatic. The planet is warming dangerously as a result of the heat-trapping byproducts of our daily lives. Half of the primeval forests that existed at the end of the last ice age are gone. A mist of mercury and other toxic metals from coal combustion falls continuously on land and ocean, and to eat fish is to absorb these metals yourself. Half of us are now urban, rarely if ever meeting up with creatures wilder than crows, cockroaches, and, in some cities, packs of feral dogs.

And this is just where we are today, while the beat of growth goes on. Little if any of this would have transpired had human numbers peaked long ago. Such a peak might have occurred by now, even with the gains in life expectancy of the past century, if the status and reproductive intentions of women had found consistent support rather than silence and censure.

Beginning little more than a century ago, social acceptance of contraception began to grow and to spread around the world. That led to dramatic declines in birthrates that gathered force as human population throttled past a few billion. Who knows how much closer we would be to a meltdown of Greenland's ice or the collapse of critical ocean fisheries had this collective wisdom -- a public good derived from individuals acting in their private interest -- not dampened the rise of population? Given the increasingly plausible threat of one or more interacting environmental catastrophes, the slowing of population growth is a triumph of human wisdom and good fortune. This realization is only slowly dawning, however, on the community of journalists and other opinion leaders.

The dominant concerns in many countries about population aging and decline are hardly baseless. These developments may well challenge societies. Populations may have more old people than young for a while, because yesterday's baby boomers are heading toward old age even as young women are having fewer children. Over time, however, extreme age disparities should subside as these large generations pass on, the more so when average fertility returns to close to two children per woman. Assuming it will.

Some demographers, eyeing the stubborn low fertility of women in most of Europe and parts of east Asia, are beginning to wonder if such a return to replacement fertility is possible. Some allude in cautionary tones to the possibility of a "low-fertility trap," a vast pool of demographic quicksand that prevents women from ever returning to replacement fertility once their childbearing average drops below about 1.5 births. There's no real basis for such speculation, however. The world is too dynamic and our experience with intentionally low fertility far too new.

What might eventually unfold is something far more appealing: birth cohorts of consistently equal size across generations. The most demographically stable age structure for a population would be for each year's "class" of babies to be the same size as the one the year before, and ten, twenty-five, or fifty years before. No single age group, young or old, would naturally claim any more of society's attention than any other, at least based on their numbers. That's a population structure worth striving for.

For now, population aging is the inevitable outcome of two of the most positive developments of modern times: longer life spans and the realized intentions of women to have fewer children, later in their lives. Modern views on human rights and equality hardly would have allowed most women to continue giving birth to many more children than they wanted. And populations hardly could have continued growing in the twenty-first century at the same torrid pace as in the middle decades of the twentieth. Some populations had to be the first to experience the leveling off of growth and then decline, and in most cases this has occurred with no significant increases in death rates. That's rare, maybe even unprecedented, in human history.

Today, humanity still grows by 78 million people annually-the rough equivalent of a new Texas, California, and New York each year. Unless death rates rise catastrophically or birthrates plummet far more than anyone expects, the end of world population growth is still decades away. It's reasonable to expect that humanity will grow to 7 billion, 8 billion, or even higher before the number levels off for good reasons or bad.

What dominates our experience in the first decade of the third millennium are the technologies and institutions we have invented, disseminated, tinkered with, and improved over thousands of years to make human life on such scales possible. We've done well. Not only are more people alive than ever, but most of us live longer than our ancestors did. Quite a few of us spend our entire lives in comfort and with tools and toys that those ancestors never could have imagined.


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See more stories tagged with: environment, contraception, population

Robert Engelman is vice president for programs at the Worldwatch Institute. Formerly vice president for research at Population Action International and founding secretary of the Society of Environmental Journalists, he has served on the faculty of Yale University. His writing has appeared in Nature, The Washington Post, and The Wall Street Journal.

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Up to one biological plus adoptions,
Posted by: aouie01 on Jun 10, 2008 1:34 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone convinced that the world is over populated by humans should seriously consider not having any more children. If about 95% of females have one or fewer biological children, about 4.5% have two, then we may be able to buffer the impact of the others who choose to have several more. One can adopt more children or live in communities where the kids can live and play together.

Unless we can easily expand outside of Earth, or we die in large numbers, not doing more education on limiting our population voluntarily, could result in the application of China-like birth control policies in other parts of the world.

The article didn't address the contribution of animal farming to the rapid deforestation around the world. While wood may have been chopped down for furniture, fuel, etc., the largest contributor to deforestation is animal farming. If we all switched to a primarily vegetarian diet, worked locally (biking distance), and seldom made long commutes on mass public transportation, and used fuel mainly to transport food supplies, then we may be able to sustain our current population (and maybe even many more) without any significant further destruction of the world including all the earthlings. I haven't computed specifics, but am merely extrapolating other's computations.

If and when we tap into the Earth's heat as an energy source and continue to wastefully or extravagantly utilize energy, then global cooling may be much more of a concern than global warming.

Pollutants, are also a serious threat to most life. Just like children most of the animals on Earth explore the world by tasting it. It was sad to read about how some cows in India are dying because of plastic in the garbage.

Sincerely,
Aouie
Sincerely,
Aouie

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» Be clear about this... Posted by: Bobsays
» RE: Be clear about this... Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: ....what the???? Posted by: Libsrule
» idiocracy.... Posted by: rafaeltoral
» RE: Are you Posted by: boydranchitos
Governments have no interest in population decline
Posted by: blogbooks on Jun 10, 2008 1:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we look to government for leadership in this regard we will get little more than a cold stare back at us. A nation's power stems from its population.

Without a people to rule the king seems rather silly sitting on his throne doesn't he?

This is why we see a panic in the nations that do have a declining population such as Russia and Singapore to name just two. Russia pays rather hefty monthly stipends and bonuses to women that have more than one child Link. Singapore is giving classes in college about how to date Link.

Here's a quote: "We want to tell students: Don't wait until you have built up your career," Yu-Foo Yee Shoon, minister of state for community development, youth and sports, said at a news conference last month. "Sometimes, it is too late, especially for girls."

Seems like a fairly anti-feminist and not environmentally friendly statement doesn't it? Well, get used to it. No government in the world save those with truly massive populations is served by population reduction.

The ruling class needs taxes, young men to send to war, and servants. So this topic much be approached via a sociological avenue. The United States has no population crises and won't in the foreseeable future. In multi-cultural globalist America the ruling class does not care what color its serfs are and we have a steady supply of them coming in from Mexico, India, and elsewhere.

However, in any nation that legitimately has population decline you can be assured that its government will panic and fight it tooth and nail. People are a nation's life's blood.

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» China Posted by: Sparks56
Empowering women: nice words, vapid sentiment
Posted by: Bobsays on Jun 10, 2008 2:03 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We hear it all the time: 'if only women in the world were empowered: the birth rate would come down and we wouldn't have this population problem.' But consider this: not all societies will make themselves open to 'empowering women'. Don't believe me? Try looking around the world at Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, most of Africa, parts of central asia, Latin America... it goes on.

And so you are stuck with this conundrum: do we have enough time left to allow another 50 or 100 years of non-empowering cultures and societies to carry on? Or, can we continue on the course we are on where we are trying to introduce these non-empowering cultures into the western world, rolling back our own gains (go anywhere in Europe and you will see the forces of Islam on the rise and that cultures ways becoming the norm)?

The problem with this article is that a) it assumes every woman is a graduate of Yale, b) that the world's women will all become graduates of Yale in ten years' time if we throw enough money at it, c) that there will be no push-back when you try to empower women in traditional societies. All falacies.

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» Empower women and survive Posted by: Last Chance
How To Manange The Numbers Within A Fundamental Context?
Posted by: skizum on Jun 10, 2008 2:49 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A clear result of this era of population growth and pending resource scarcity, is that the models of a predominantly market driven/manipulated economies, whether capitalist, black market and everything else in between, are not sustainable. Our penchant for producing and consuming is pushing us beyond the borders of natural balance; in terms of both our environment and our 'human condition'.

If we ever hope to resolve the unbalanced conditions prevalent in our world we will need to understand the root causes which led to those imbalances.

I believe that the roots of imbalance in the world can be traced back to the elemental issues of human behavior. Human behavior influences virtually everything that happens on planet earth yet, we as individual citizens, understand very little about this fundamental subject.

For the moment, let me define human behavior as the elements of our human nature as influenced by our experiences or nurture. For example, elements of our human nature, like our needs to; be aggressive, to dominate, to resist being dominated, to experience fear as a means of self preservation, to express love or admiration, to seek guidance from powers greater than ourselves, to maintain beliefs, to rationalize and so on.... are influenced by religion, politics, science, cultural preferences, traumatic experience, geographic location, weather, language, etc.

Trying to understand the interaction of all of the permutations of these variables can be mind boggling if looked at as a large system in its entirety. We must find a way to break down this information into easily digestible packets which expose the root/base level fundamental motivations for our actions. Only at this point can we start to address the creation of solutions that may infuse peaceful and truly sustainable strategies into our economic, cultural, legal, environmental and social systems globally.

Currently, the hierarchical goals of most of these power structure systems are rooted in the motivation of small segments of populations to control and dominate resources and the masses. This model ensures security for those in power; this is not unlike the basic behavioral tenant of our animal cousins, especially mammals. Survival of the fittest and so on... where threat and use of lethal force is the ultimate trump card.

So here we are at this very important juncture in human history and health of the planet which sustains us. If we want a future that has more positively balanced attributes, we are going to have to understand what motivates and drives us to behave the way we do before we can find a way to alter that behavior.

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» I Beg to Differ Posted by: skizum
RECIPE FOR POULATION RUEDUCTION
Posted by: mindtrvlr on Jun 10, 2008 3:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
HAVE YOU HEARD OF SOYLENT GREEN

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does the author understand that he is agreeing with the elitist Duke of Edinburgh Prince Phillip
Posted by: Suzon on Jun 10, 2008 4:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
when he accepts the argument that there are too many people?

Walter Bagehot, the 19th century author of The English Constitution, blithely condemned the "lower orders" in favor of the "educated ten thousand". This contempt for "common people" is psychologically necessary in order for the elites to continue to keep the rest of us subjugated and oppressed while they treat themselves to the most extravagant and damaging lifestyles.

The problem is not 6.7 billion people but the activities of the top 1%, not least those whose wealth is based upon warfare.

Perhaps the author addresses this at some point (good for him if he has) but time is short and the issue of "overpopulation" is of extreme importance. We must be very wary of buying into it.

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» Wrong again Posted by: Last Chance
» Indeed, the problem is both... Posted by: Last Chance
» Dumbest argument yet Posted by: leafsong1
Read the math in Colin Tudge's THE TIME BEFORE HISTORY
Posted by: navy-vet on Jun 10, 2008 5:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Much of the problem is the pressure of archaic religious and secular political cultures, too inflexible and/or top-down to change rationally. British anthropologist Colin Tudge, tags on an informative (and realistically pessimistic) chapter, "The Next Million Years," at the end of his 1996 book, THE TIME BEFORE HISTORY. Tudge has a few sharp words for those who follow religious edicts rather than good sense (p. 319), and refutes their dogmas with simple arithmetic. (Instead of using Tudge's exponents of 10 I'm showing the mind-boggling zeroes in this quote.):

--------
". . .[T]here are 'pronatalists' who maintain that anyone who seeks to reduce human reproduction must in some sense be 'anti-humanity.' To prevent the birth of possible babies is, they say, to 'deny life.' Some religious people argue, too, that all babies are born 'for the glory of God': and that more babies means more glory.

"Such arguments can be answered even by crude statistics. Suppose, for example, that we do survive the looming demographic crisis; and suppose that our descendants finally decide that a world population of around 1 billion is a reasonable, sustainable target. With such a population there is no reason to doubt that our species could last a million years. In such a case, the human species will enjoy l billion x 1 million = 109 x 106 = 1015 person-years [1,000,000,000 x 1,000,000 = 10,000,000,000,000,000].

"But if we allow our population to rise to, say, 20 billion, then we must surely doubt whether we could survive in recognizable form for more than another 10,000 years or so. If we faded after ten millennia, then our total presence through the time still to come will have been a mere 20 billion x 10,000 = 20 x 109 x 104 = 20 x 1013 = 2 x 1014 person-years—at most [20 x 10,000,000,000 x 100,000 = 100,000,000,000,000]. In other words (compare 10,000,000,000,000,000 to 200,000,000,000,000), if we exercise restraint, then the total number of human beings who will have trodden this Earth could be at least five times greater than it would be if we allowed populations to run away with us."
---------

To challenge the self-styled "right to life" people with the bald truth that they are really "anti-life," quote this excellent book. You won't change the hard-heads, but you may get through to some who aren't True Believers. Furthermore, despite Tudge's expertise, I think ten thousand years is an improbably long time span for human survival, except at the lowest level of bare survival. At our current status of decline, this overpopulated world has no more than a hundred years to cure the spread of "humanity cancer." As a mother and grandmother, who worked more than half my career in environmentalism, energy alternatives and medical publishing, this tragic prospect grievously saddens me.

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A book well worth reading
Posted by: Last Chance on Jun 10, 2008 5:24 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the rest of Mr. Engelman's book is like this article, it should be widely read around the World. Then perhaps Mankind will face reality and change his insatiably omniverous lifestyle BEFORE the damage becomes irreversable, hopefully.

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The Earth has a virus
Posted by: lil ole me on Jun 10, 2008 5:34 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and its us.

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Some problems with these optimistic solutions
Posted by: Jasonix on Jun 10, 2008 6:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are three problems with the idea that we can bring population growth under control in time to save the human race from a catastrophic die-off by empowering women economically. They are:

1. Economic growth depends on population growth. Society must have successively-larger generations in order to grow their consumer base and have enough active workers to support the elderly. Europe is spectacularly over-populated, with some of the highest population densities on Earth. Any sane environmental policy by the EU would involve cutting the population of Britain, France, Spain, Germany, and other nations by half within a generation. The low birth-rates of these countries should be celebrated and emulated. Yet, EU nations find themselves compelled to take in immigrants from Middle Eastern and African nations. Because of the ancient cultures of all the nations involved, taking in immigrants is deeply traumatic, much more traumatic for the Europeans than it is for Americans. But because economic growth requires growing populations, Europe has to do this.

2. The economic growth that we've enjoyed for the last few generations has also resulted from the widespread availability of fossil fuels. When there isn't available natural resources, opportunities are hard to come by, regardless of one's education. We're entering a period of scarcity right now.

3. Many societies have cultures that are hostile to women's rights, and are facing drastic population crises in the present. They aren't apt to empower women as a strategy to deal with their problems. In India, for example, many girls are simply aborted in utero. Now that a generation with a high male-to-female ratio has come of age, women are being forced in prostitution, sometimes as "family whores" shared by brothers. Polyandry is almost unheard of in human cultures, and has been practiced mostly in situations where resources are scarce and population must be firmly controlled. Unlike the idealized fantasies of some feminists, polyandry is as deeply abusive and degrading to women as polygamy, perhaps even more so, and as women become a scarce resource in these nations due to sex-selective abortion, the remaining women will be restricted and controlled like a precious resource.

4. This solution takes time. Most of us now realize that we've already wasted the time we have. (Hell, even the song George Michael sang on American Idol, the most candy-coated show on TV, acknowledged that the apocalypse has already begun.)

I don't know what the best solution for bringing human population under control in an age of scarcity is - perhaps it is morally unacceptable for us to pursue any policy other than encouraging birth control and education. That's because any real solution will be effective, immediate, and comprehensive - i.e., a plague or mass starvation. One hopes that whatever Mother Nature cooks up, it'll mostly kill the unintelligent, the insane, the criminal, the gluttonous, and those who did the most to bring this disaster on us all.

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» Islam's tidy solutions... Posted by: Bobsays
» Most women... Posted by: Bobsays
» You're naive at best Posted by: bornxeyed
» X-cellent discussion, X-men! Posted by: morticia
» RE: You're a Luddite at best Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: You're a Luddite at best Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: It's called Google ;) Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: aaaaahhhhhh Google..... Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: Definitely agree Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
Here's a solution...
Posted by: Kcanadensis on Jun 10, 2008 6:11 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
STOP BREEDING.

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» i did Posted by: ptown
Victrola
Posted by: victrola on Jun 10, 2008 6:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Emancipate women, emancipate the world. I have been saying this for years and have been sadly ridiculed by misogynist sexists who thought I was just a ranting angry woman. Well, boys, patriarchy IS the problem. Get over it.

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» RE: Victrola Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Victrola Posted by: badkitty68
Ain't it the Truth
Posted by: Purple Girl on Jun 10, 2008 6:35 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a woman who has worked as a Breeding Manger in the Horse industry I know Females can control everything related to Reproduction. Not showing Heat- won't get Pregnant. Not enough nutritional resources to sustain a pregnancy, they reabsorb or 'slip' it. They can even Decide when to let their 'water break'-when they feel safe.Hell we've had ones Trying to 'slip' a pregnancy and we interfer by starting Hormones to make them hold on to it- only to have her give birth to a foal with defects who we have to euthanize.
I spent hours when I first started 'foaling out' trying to get a foal to nurse- after becoming annoyed and stepping out for a cigarette to settle My nerves- I returned to find it Nursing.The mare knew exactly what to do to get they baby On. I was getting in the way of her innate ability to do the job nature had aptly given her.
I also have found I tmust allow the Stallion to do his job- ignore her if she is out of heat -no matter what my records and day counting said or Tease the hell out of her because HE knows she is but is being too 'shy' to show.We are NOT Masters Of the Natural World -we are often Wrenches in the Gears.
I am Not a "pro Abortion' advocate, I am a right to control your own reproduction as it relates to your health and situation.
My real activism comes from ending Unwanted pregnancies to begin With! I do not see Abortion as a birth control method, I see it as a last resort.And any one who fails to take steps to avoid a unwanted pregnancy and chooses Abortion as their method is an idiot and frankly vile human being.Same goes for those who claim they are 'against abortions' but do everything to Promote Unwanted pregnancies. Abstinence, No birth control access- they are the Baby Killers- because they are Promoting birth regardless of the situation after birth.Frankly they don't seem to give a shit about life once out of the Womb.so their proclaimed "Right to Life" adage sends me Reeling into Outrage!Not 'ProLife' just "Por Birth' then f*ck ya!
It is Not Abortion which must be Stopped it is Unwanted Pregnancies- Reduce and eliminate those and Poof! there goes the number of Abortions.
I'd be more than open to a discussion similar to 3 strikes and your OUT- Sterilized!that goes for the men who play 'Johnny apple Seed' who impregnant women then Walk away.
Oh we have a desperate need for a real converstion about Reproductive Rights AND Responiblities in this Country.both sides of this 'controversy'need to get a clue!

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» RE: Ain't it the Truth Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Ain't it the Truth Posted by: morticia
» RE: Ain't it the Truth Posted by: morticia
» RE: Ain't it the Truth Posted by: morticia
Power corrupts
Posted by: mtnprivy on Jun 10, 2008 6:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr Engleman,
Given your credentials, I would expect more from you. The premise of your headline is never even mentioned until the last paragraph, and then it is not validated with any evidence whatever.
I understand that YOU FEEL as though our sense of equality is a good thing, and it is. This in no way solves the problem of human population numbers.
At least the vile eugenics crowd and all their ilk were able to grasp the seriousness of our stranglehold on the planet, and how we are choking off its life energy. It is hard to imagine a method of achieving reasonable human numbers and a healthy planet, without some form of policy that will offend someone.
Perhaps you have not run head-first into the "biological clock" of procreation like many of us have. You have no convincing evidence that "empowering women" (a term you don't define) will do anything more than turn them into even more excessive consumers of our precious resources. Look what that empowerment has meant to men and women of the western world. Where are all those "empowered" men and women who live simple and low consuming lives, because they are "empowered" to do so?
If you really look at the "empowered" you will see nations of Walmart consumers buying and throwing away mountains of plastic and driving SUVs. The really "empowered" are our representatives in the US, and they are monsterous and hideous versions of ourselves, gluttenous to the hilt.

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» RE: Power corrupts Posted by: plantsareneat
» Advertising also corrupts Posted by: Last Chance
It's simple, folks ...
Posted by: monkeywrench on Jun 10, 2008 6:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... If we do not reduce our population, Nature will do it for us -- and the result will not be pretty.

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Too many people............
Posted by: Esplyn on Jun 10, 2008 6:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have been saying this for the past thirty or more years. That there must be less population for the species to survive. And over the years this idea, when I mentioned it, has met a great deal of opposition. I am not a scientist or technical genius but merely a sixty year old woman with a high school education and if I can see this why can't others?

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» RE: Too many people............ Posted by: Last Chance
» One man's doomsday.... Posted by: morticia
» RE: One man's doomsday.... Posted by: morticia
Scientists are confident?
Posted by: zeofredo on Jun 10, 2008 6:58 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The remark in this article that "scientists are confident HIV/AIDS started..." hasn't passed unnoticed by this skeptic-- it is worth investigating instead the contrary allegations [care of Rev. Wright] that titillated so many of us recently. In this age of scandalous information being confirmed years after outrageous acts were committed, it is more plausible that AIDS WAS a deliberately perpetrated disease. I'm not fully convinced yet, but this discussion gives much food for thought:
http://www.blackopradio.com/archives2008.html
(see show #376, May 29, 2008)
This is a link for an interview with Professor Donald Scott who wrote 'AIDS: The Crime Beyond Belief'

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First of all, lay off the neo-Malthusian bullshit. Second, learn the real causes and VEDIC Studies.
Posted by: maxpayne on Jun 10, 2008 7:09 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now, first off, the out of whack population growth is occuring in areas where the fundamentalists, be it in the Muslim or Christian realm, are going out of their ways to push more otherwise peace-loving frugal-minded individuals into full-time gluttons. By spoiling them, they can create the worst and along with the Far Right and Far Left create an artifical case of the so-called upcoming "rapture" or "apocalypse". And we're not even discussing the ongoing blatant human rights abuses in those countries as well as even here since most media outlets throughout this country and the world will rarely allow it. For example, abusive husbands, usually Muslims or Christians with fundie attitudes, force their wives to produce more than 4 children all in the name of trying to prop up their religious population for eventual world domination. Sadly, most of these children are bound to end up in severe poverty or face higher economic and financial risks in their lives. If you don't believe me, visit the nations and see how the Muslims and Christians have been going out on a limb waging wars against other religions except for perhaps Judaism since they've probably found it easier to exploit fundamentalism from it as they have their own religions.

That's not to say that all Christian and Muslims are war mongers. I myself am a white male Christian who always believed in the peace-loving side of understanding other religions and learning the good aspects of them including Christianity and Islam themselves. I am married to an American born Indian American whose parents are from northeastern India. When we went back to visit that region, there were mainly Christian fanatics controlling the education and the territory no different from fanatical Muslim fundamentalists ruining Kashmir. But that's not all. Country after country we visited along with our friends and families, we found that every time peaceful non-violent religions were destroyed completely and replaced with fanatics and even total converts, the countries would be plagued with totally corrupt government officials, "free" trade scams, religious bigotry and persecution along with vandalism and destruction of other religious creations and arts, racism, population growth explosions coupled with increasing poverty, hostile business takeovers, and wars for the scarce resources that empowered all this religious fundamentalism in the first place.

Thankfully, I'm glad we we are able to find a growing number of allies working to preserve and even revive Vedic Studies. What does Vedic Studies have to do with the population mess and how can it help? Take some time off your busy schedules once in a while as well as the tv and internet, relax and take a few deep breaths, and find out. You cannot expect Alternet or Faux Noise to tell you.

PEACE

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Bushes Answer
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Jun 10, 2008 7:10 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dictator Bushes answer is easy, start a new war (invasion) and get a bunch of us killed off.

Ultimate Anonymity

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How to convince teenagers...
Posted by: ptown on Jun 10, 2008 7:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I work with urban teenagers who come from large families (mostly struggling) and have 4-5 siblings. Most of their moms were young moms. Lots of these kids have half-sibs. In the California urban teen culture, young thugs think it's macho to have a few "baby mamas" and girls want as many children as they have brothers and sisters. How do we reach these kids? These children/young adults from families already struggling and quite often on the taxpayers dole, need to be convinced that population is the problem. Maybe some hip-hop artists can get on this anti-growth train and start rapping the virtues of small families saving the planet? We have to start with youth.

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» Why should they? Posted by: dudelette
Eugenics
Posted by: uncleeddie on Jun 10, 2008 7:21 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This guy is just another talking head for the New World Order. Their stated goal is to exterminate 90% of the worlds population down to below 500,000. Hiding behind CIA and Rockefeller fronted organizations people like Engelmen spew out their propaganda to convince people that they are evil and detrimental to the earth. I see he went to Yale. I wonder if he's a bones man like George Bush and John Kerry. The point is that the elites of the world have been and are continuing their eugenics programs and research for over a hundred years. The dream of a superhuman superior to the majority called "useless feeders" continues in secret and in the open through such people as Bill and Melinda Gates and Warren Buffet whose so called Philanthropy is all eugenics based. Overpopulation is hardly a threat compared to these creeps.

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» Please die Posted by: leafsong1
» Possible Posted by: blogbooks
» RE: Possible Posted by: leafsong1
Scientific Development and Disaster
Posted by: Patriotsthink on Jun 10, 2008 7:24 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't see many of us taking into consideration scientific developments in farming and civil engineering. It's as if no we cannot consider that there will be any other good ideas or inventions in the future. I don't think I've seen any consideration for the impact of natural disasters caused by weather, earthquake, wildfire, disease etc.

I am deeply skeptical in our abilities to project the future or our abilities to wantonly decide who should live or be born. Mankind simply does not have a good track record once we begin down that path. Humans are capable of great kindness as well as blind, misguided and sometimes outright evil behavior.

Go cautiously.

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Free Implanon, Norplant/Jadelle, Intra-uterine Devices, and Sterilization
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Jun 10, 2008 8:05 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As much as I dislike taxes and handouts, the government should provide these things for free to those who want them. Tax breaks in the tax code alone for dependents cost more than these items and procedures.

Arguably no one should be allowed to have more than 2 kids until we manage to sustainably increase our food production and resource production.

A recent study by the U.N. showed that by 2030 food production will need to increase by 50%.

Cue the bulldozing of more tropical rain forest and wildlife habitat driving some species to extinction, species that might contain cures and treatments for all sorts of diseases but in our short-sided quest for more get bulldozed under.

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5% of the world's population consumes >25% of the natural resources.
Posted by: non-person on Jun 10, 2008 8:12 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What country are we talking about?

Every American uses, on average, 100 times the resources of a sub-Saharan African villager.

The real problem is consumer culture, not overpopulation.

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GREED
Posted by: Patriotsthink on Jun 10, 2008 8:18 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Before we begin serious consideration of forced population control, let's consider the impact of human GREED.

People are not so much the problem their nature.

If we gave people growable seed instead of food or cash, they'd be better off. But that isn't economically feasable.

Western societies don't NEED three or for TV's, a constant 72 F degree indoor climate, fast food or multiple cars, but we can so we do. Meanwhile our neighbors need iodine, chlorine, and basic, basic, basic food, clothing and shelter.

Population, shmopulation. It's character control we need.

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» RE: Having children is a form of GREED Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: Goddammit Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» No amount of conservation Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: GREED Posted by: Outsidetheboxlookingin
Liberals should not have kids
Posted by: Romans1 on Jun 10, 2008 8:28 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please follow your own advice and don't reproduce. We Conservative Christians are having babies. Cute ones. And they are so much fun and such a joy and they are growing up to embrace our faith and our values. You don't know what you're missing.

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» RE: Liberals should not have kids Posted by: leemiller38
» Great response Posted by: mindtrvlr
» RE: Liberals should not have kids Posted by: radiomorning
» RE: no worries Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: no worries Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: Chick tracts are funny Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: Liberals should not have kids Posted by: Outsidetheboxlookingin
fact: There is a shortage of women.
Posted by: Romans1 on Jun 10, 2008 8:39 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is a fact that state population control in China and all over southeast Asia has led to a shortage of young women for young men to marry. This is because parents (dads and moms)are so bent on having boy babies, they exterminate their girls either before or after birth. This fact has led to an increase in the traffiking of women as commodities on the black market. So while you are advocating the empowerment of women, the implementation of these policies have done exactly the opposite.

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» Excellent point Posted by: Bobsays
» Jesus Empowers Women Posted by: Romans1
» RE: Jesus Empowers Women Posted by: Richard House
» RE: Jesus Empowers Women Posted by: scheherezade
» Aw, shucks.... Posted by: morticia
» RE: Aw, shucks.... Posted by: morticia
» RE: Aw, shucks.... Posted by: morticia
Be more like China, less like U.S.
Posted by: sausage on Jun 10, 2008 8:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One thing both the right and the left in the United States agrees, China's one-child policy is a violation of human rights.

Both weepy, do-gooder liberals and stern, "pro-life" conservatives decry alleged forced abortions, sterilizations and infanticide by Chinese officials.

Yet what lead Chinese politicians to initiate these draconian measures?: The convergence of stupidly clung to and outmoded tradition (more kids=more farmhands) and the spread of modern Western medicine, in particular inoculations against common childhood illnesses. Prior to the introduction of Western vaccines and the like, historically China was able to feed itself and the population remained relatively stable. It was thus the world over. Recall that only six of the fecund J.S. Bach's twenty children from two wives survived into adulthood.

But, oh, how terrible that the government of a nation of a billion-plus citizens won't allow it's people free-rein to reproduce like bunnies! Now that China's dipped its toe in the global "free market," the desire for monetary gain outstrips the desire for a house full of little bastards. Yet, on the other hand, let's show the Chinese people that the "free market" and medical science also allows families to irresponsibly produce dog-sized litters of babies, like Iowa's McCaugheys!

Frankly I'm fed up with the hypocrisy of the West feeding the starving of the world while at the same time allowing the fringes of the three so-called "great" Abrahamic superstitions, Christianity, Islam and Judaism, to encourage their adherents to fuck for the deity of their choice. Throw away the rubbers, boys, Jesus, Allah, G_d, needs the soldiers!

Which is the bigger violation of human rights?

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Global fertility rates are way, way down. Just a little further to go.
Posted by: racje on Jun 10, 2008 8:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Globally, families have about half as many children today as they did thirty years ago.

Replacement fertility is a little over 2 births per woman. (About half of all babies are boys, and not all babies live into the childbearing years.)

When I began studying demography in the 1970's, the global total fertility rate was above five children per woman. It's now about half what it was then: 2.58. This is a truly remarkable revolution in family size, in less than two generations.

Over the last eight years, global total fertility rate has dropped from 2.8 children per woman to 2.58 children. If fertility continues to drop at that historic pace, global total fertility will be below replacement level in less than 25 years.

As I'm over sixty now, with two grandchildren, I'll leave the families of the future to choose how quickly population levels could decline, once the global fertility is below replacement level.

My focus is instead on what I can leave to future generations: a strong, resilient ecosystem, some valuable resources, and a human community that can achieve good choices for today and tomorrow.

I work every day to respect and enhance the natural world, to reduce the resources that I use up, and to build a global human community based on justice, equity, harmony and reverence for the world we live in.

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» Dream on, Sunshine. Posted by: leafsong1
» Signs of slowing Posted by: racje
» RE: Signs of slowing Posted by: fizikschick
» RE: www.demographicwinter.com Posted by: Overburdened Planet
enabling women: a partial approach to population control
Posted by: greenlady on Jun 10, 2008 8:56 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some time ago, I read the statement: a high protein diet decreases fertility and a high carbohydrate diet increases fertility. I don't remember where I read it, but I do know that historically the population explosion started when people went from a hunter/gatherer culture to agriculture--when the diet went from high protein (a healthy diet) to high carbohydrates (an unhealthy diet).

Where in the world is the population explosion the highest? in the countries where the diet is the poorest! Why? Because it is nature's way of trying to preserve the species! When an individual's life is at risk due to poor nutrition/starvation, the individual becomes more fertile. This same phenomenon is seen among plants also. (I garden and have experimented with this.) Stress a plant by cutting water and or fertilizer, and it will go to seed or attempt to.

Logically the first step in population control would be to improve the diet of the poorest countries in the world which would automatically reduce fertility, and then allow women to choose to have fewer children.

Of course, improving and helping the people to improve their own diet would have a whole new set of logistic, social, and political problems. But it would be worth doing!

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» Diet and fecundity Posted by: racje
Overpopulation IS NOT the problem
Posted by: nahikurain@mac.com on Jun 10, 2008 9:01 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Natural Farming (Fukuoka) and Humanure (Jenkins) can actually solve most of the world's problems- quit working so hard with ass-in-head and quit defecating in the drinking water.

Saying that empowering women would solve the problem is blame-game mentality that points at the beauty of creation, the pregnant woman, the cherubic fruit- don't even go pointing there, no.

Grow food, cast seed balls, turn off the switch, quit shopping, build a water catchment, dig a pond, plant trees, eat less, and have babies. babies and people are great, but curtail the shopping, the packaging, the shelflife, the transportation, the work work work rat race. Find peace with the God of your understanding, love your self and your neighbor, but grow some food now.

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» More food is not the solution Posted by: leafsong1
"The world food crisis and the capitalist market"
Posted by: jcrw on Jun 10, 2008 9:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Today, June 10, the third and final part of a long article that provides an essential perspective on this topic. Simplistic and self-serving explanations of mass starvation are caused by "overpopulation" or "declining resources" cover-up fundamental cause.

The world food crisis and the capitalist market


Part One:

"As the June 3-5 Conference on World Food Security of the United Nations’ Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) began in Rome, FAO Director Jacques Diouf said of the explosion of food prices: “It is touching every country in the world. We have not only seen riots and people dying, but also a government toppled [in Haiti], and we know that many countries...could tilt to one way or the other depending on the discontent or satisfaction of their population.”


Part 2

"The central problem underlying the current food crisis is not a physical lack of food, but rather its unaffordability for masses of people due to rapidly increasing prices. Among the immediate factors driving the rapid worsening of the food crisis, a major role is played by the explosion of speculative investment in basic commodities such as oil and grain, itself bound up with the difficulties facing US and world financial markets and the decline in the US dollar. Rampant speculation by hedge funds and other big market players has increased costs, encouraging private firms to further bid up prices in a competitive drive to amass as much profit as possible."


Part III:

"The current food crisis reflects not only financial events of recent years, but longer-term policies of world imperialism. Instead of allowing for a planned improvement of infrastructure and farming techniques, globalization on a capitalist basis has resulted in a restriction in many parts of the world of farm production. This has been carried out in order to lessen competition and prevent market gluts from harming the profit interests of the major powers."

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where are the fathers?
Posted by: cyr3n on Jun 10, 2008 10:08 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even if women are empowered and educated.. seriously.. who are they going to be bearing children with? Some unemployed schlub living in his parent's basement?

Who's going to raise a kid when it takes 2 incomes just to stay afloat?

Don't kid yourself, most of women's reproductive desires are hinged on income, options, and living standards.

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» RE: where are the fathers? Posted by: WickedGrace
Stable Population-Japan’s Edo Period
Posted by: eochiai on Jun 10, 2008 10:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Japan closed itself from the outside world during the Edo (or Tokugawa) period (1600-1868). They had a very stable, almost constant, population of 30 millions for the period of approximately 1720-1870 (one and half a century). Since it was closed to the outside world, it had to live on only the renewable resources available, essentially the solar energy alone. The land is limited, and the food is barely enough. As a matter of fact, natural disasters, particularly crop failure due to cold summer (Edo period was in the so-called “little ice age”) caused famine often. However, people also realized that they had reached the natural capacity of the land, and practiced “family planning”. The result was that the total population of Japan remained almost constant over that period, and yet the majority of people had decent living (with high culture), though their material possession was far less from the today’s standard. How was this possible? Generally high education level, culture of concern for others, and the acquired collective wisdom, etc. By the way, they improved the environment as well in this period. Can’t we learn something from this experience?

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A simple thought experiment...
Posted by: bornxeyed on Jun 10, 2008 11:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
to illustrate how population quickly reaches carrying-capacity.

If a population doubles every 24 hours and reaches carrying-capacity in 30 days, when is the population at 1/2 carrying-capacity?

The answer is also the title of a very prophetic book written in 1989, I believe, I'd have to go look through my boxes of books for the date and author.

But the people who get this simple answer correct will understand how little time there is between sustainable and unsustainable.

I'll post the answer later this evening if no one gets it right.

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» RE: A simple thought experiment... Posted by: ConnecttheDots
Strawman arguments galore. Puppet show redux in PropagandaLand.
Posted by: non-person on Jun 10, 2008 12:23 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Acceptable political issues in Corporate Slave Land:

1) Abortion, and everything related. Religion, women's rights, population, birth control, whatever. Acceptable to be on the left, acceptable to be on the right. Having an opinion on such issues will not hurt your corporate career.

2) Race - but not economic status. Discussion of racism is now officially OK, though most will simply point to Condi Rice as a leading example of how that is no longer true - a black woman as Secretary of State? (She should run against Obama - wouldn't that be something? Hahahahaha!)

That's it. Poverty, war in Iraq, national health care system - that'll cost you your job and your funding, won't it? It's safer to talk about American Idol than about American foreign policy, isn't it?

America - a land of slavish corporate toadies, arrogant aristocratic overlords, and an impoverished and suppressed and deliberately un-educated peasantry - and the world's biggest prison system to warehouse the political dissidents and other malcontents.

Look in the mirror, asshole. We've all got blood on our hands - you, me, all of us. That what it means to be a citizen in a democracy - we are responsible for the actions of our government - but how many of us, in our hearts, know that we are really just slaves of the empire? How many of us have sacrificed basic moral responsibility on the alter of greed and fear?

Sing the right song and the aristocrats throw you scraps from the table - sing the wrong one, and it's off to the dungeons. Oh yeah, baby - we're the Greatest Nation on Earth, a Beacon of Freedom and Opportunity...

Gack.

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To quote Lee Ving:
Posted by: hurricane hugo on Jun 10, 2008 12:54 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Let's have a war...we need the SPACE!"

jdfu!

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The problem is not resource limits
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Jun 10, 2008 1:52 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Animal populations will implode well before limits on resources are reached. Nature has a way of culling population, and as one poster put it, "it ain't pretty". Basically, it's due to population concentration.

One way is to kill folks who live in concentrated areas with storms, volcanoes, earthquakes and such. China and Burma are good examples. Without these population concentrations (due to excess population) death tolls go down.

Another way is through disease. The flu epidemic in 1918 killed 50 million people, and that at a time when modern medicine was becoming widespread. Population concentrations and travel make disease a good prospect for population control.

Mental illness is another one. There's a reason why Islamic countries produce so many suicide bombers.

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That wasn't the point
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Jun 10, 2008 2:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That wasn't what I was getting at. My point was that resources limits aren't what's going to cause population implosion. Populations will do so before that point is reached (which is probably NOW). Do we really want to test that theory? No? Then control the population rationally.

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What is most important? Earth or man?
Posted by: Old Skeptic on Jun 10, 2008 3:08 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Interesting article, but I had to disagree with this statement: "The biological reserve near where I swam years ago in southern Mexico is now pockmarked by the cleared land of impoverished squatters, whose needs can't ethically be denied or easily redirected to biologically less important land."

This is nonsense, IMO. There is no "ethical" requirement that we allow reserved lands to be destroyed by slash-and-burn primitive agriculturalists. There is no reason that these people couldn't be forcibly (if necessary) prevented from cutting the forests down and destroying the ecosystem, or removed (albeit a bit late) now.

Quite simply, the desires of one family, or even several, to squat on land not their own and destroy it as they did their own land are outweighed by the need of the planet to maintain ecosystems. These people should be relocated to less ecologically important areas (if such a thing exists) and the forests replanted. Just as the alleged "need" of tiger parts in "traditional" Asian medicine does not justify the poaching of tigers. The need of the planet or an endangered species should trump the alleged needs of human poachers. That is the truly ethical path, IMO.

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Hey! Let's shoot all the overconsumers!
Posted by: non-person on Jun 10, 2008 3:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wouldn't that ease the burden a little?

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This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
rn
Posted by: mnatra on Jun 10, 2008 6:41 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you know why people will not stop having more than one child or no kids at all as the 21 first century unfolds/?
Because the only so called natural world left will be in the one in the bedroom or some similar place. People view sexual intercourse as a natural biological, entitled function, especially in ignorant third world countries.With all the trees gone ,air pollution, noise,bad water and fewer farms for food it will be the last natural heterosexual
function. We will be even more drawn to intercourse for recreation which will of course result in more pregnancies.And in Africa they need good birth control.

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Letting women decide
Posted by: Cathyblj on Jun 10, 2008 7:28 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's so sad that in Mexico, men beat up their wives for using birth control. Having lots of kids (whether or not he can afford to feed them) shows what a macho stud the man is.

Engelman is right; respecting women and the environment is the only way to turn the tide. We also do need to change the American culture of materialism, so that people realize that conspicuous consumption (especially Hummers) is uncool, just as smoking is. Using less resources and diversifying them makes sense. But all these things will be incredibly difficult to accomplish because those who currently have all the wealth and power are desperately clinging to it, and have no desire to share. They like for poor people to have many children because that is as close to a system of slavery as they can get.

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if there are already too many of us...
Posted by: undrgrndgirl on Jun 10, 2008 10:07 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
then why do we work so hard to prolong life?? no one ever wants to talk about the OTHER end of life cos no one wants to say we should "euthanize" old folks, but i know lots of people in their 80s and 90s that are little more than walking dead. no, i'm not in favor of mowing people down at a certain age ala "logan's run"...but it seems overpopulation is always couched in terms of women and babies (education and birth control) rather than the "life saving" medicine that allows people to live far longer than they used to...and of course no one would EVER blame overpopulation on horny men.

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WHEN THE PARTY GETS TOO CROWDED...
Posted by: smendler on Jun 10, 2008 10:31 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... and they run out of Cheetos, and no one's having a good time anymore, and fights are breaking out...

The thing to do is leave.

We Boomers really oughta be thinking about checking out early. The pharma companies and the insurance-industrial complex are just waiting to bleed us dry, not to mention all the penny-ante scam artists. I for one do not intend to stick around just to give them an easy source of income. SIXTY AND OUT, say I.

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Population myth is scare tactics...
Posted by: Smartcookie on Jun 11, 2008 12:54 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.. technology doesn't sit still and there's a WHOLE bunch of land that is unpopulated: i.e. sea floors, and what not.

Advanced in engineering will allow us to further exploit resources which are now unaccessable.

If you want more info on population go here:

http://www.pop.org/

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Overpopulation is the argument of mass murderers
Posted by: saltoafronteira on Jun 11, 2008 4:31 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Take notice:
This kind of argument is crap.
It is an historical fact: there is no such thing as global overpopulation yet.
There is overpopulation in certain regions , due to mass poverty or cultural reasons.
But mortality is also huge, on those regions.
But all the other regions are in a dangerous demographic recession.
The only places where overpopulation is a fact is in africa and in muslim countries, and the other region's decline is so serious that demographics are beginning to look like a future weapon.
So, this argument is nothing but crap, and a good excuse for neocolonialists to justify mass murder inside and ouside the borders, and for hysteric feminists to pass its "contra-natura" message.
The only path for demographic control and ecological sustainability is fair progress and fair wealth distribution for all mankind.
This malthusian pseudo-control by feminist self-restraint is only a distorted and manipulated tool for more than dubious interests, and a certain path for our civilization's doom. It is time to denouce this hipocrysy for what it really implies, without fear of being demonized by the politically correctness pundits of this world.

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'George Hunt: UN UNCED Earth Summit 1992 (Population Reduction)'
Posted by: securacom-wtc on Jun 11, 2008 9:59 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Eugenics and culling possible cures to overpopulation? Watch 'George Hunt: UN UNCED Earth Summit 1992 (Population Reduction)'
and Endgame: A Blueprint for Global Enslavement, both free on on http://video.google.com

Free Documentary on www.video.google.com 'One Nation Under Siege'(1.4hrs). Through the research and personal testimony of over a dozen internationally distinguished authors, journalists, doctors, and military experts (Major General Albert Stubblebine) you will understand the massive and ceaseless control projected onto an unsuspecting populace by a government that may have finally crossed the line from a representative republic to a fascist empire. From the USA PATRIOT Act and the blatant disregard for the Bill of Rights to the outright tracking of every human being on the planet earth, you will be stunned by what U.S. government documents describe for the future of America. http://www.undersiegemovie.com/
USA’s Constitution and currency are being destroyed from within. How? Videos free on www.video.google.com 1) America: Freedom to Fascism, 2 hrs; 2)911 Justice, 18min; 3) The Clinton Chronicles, 1.7 hrs; 4) Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement, 2 hrs, 5) Terrorstorm: A History of False Flag Terror, 2 hrs 6) 911 Mysteries, 2 hrs; 7)The Creature from Jekyll Island, 1hr; 8)Orwell Rolls in His Grave, 2hrs; 9) The War on Democracy, 1.5 hrs; 10) The Energy Non-Crisis, 1 hr; 11)Iraq for Sale 1.2 hr; 12) Zeitgeist, 2 hrs; 13)Ring of Power, 2.5 hrs; 14)Bush link to JFK, 1.5 hrs; 15) The Century of the Self, 4 hrs; 16) Loose Change (2nd ed & Final cut) 2hrs each; 17)John Pilger: The New Rulers of the World; 18) The Money Masters: How International Bankers Gained Control of America, 3.5 hrs 19) Barack Obama CFR info 20) Global Warming or Global Governance 21) The Great Global Warming Swindle 22) Mercury, Autism and The Global Vaccine Agenda 23) The CIA, Mind Control and Satanism 24)George Hunt: UN UNCED Earth Summit 1992 (Population Reduction) 25) End of NAtions - EU Takeover 26) Washington, You're Fired 27) Blackwater: America's Private Army 28) Esoteric Agenda 29) Fiat Empire: Why the Federal Reserve Violates the U.S. COnstitution 30) The Revolution Will not be Televised [USA overthrow of Hugo Chavez] 31) One Nation Under Siege 32)Breaking The Silence - Truth and Lies in the War on Terror, by John Pilger(and all his documentaries) 33)Beyond Treason 1.5hrs

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Politically correct conclusions?
Posted by: scheherezade on Jun 11, 2008 11:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The history of science makes clear that we're in a far better place than we were in the nineteenth century, when some biologists backed up racism with dubious science. Most of us would rather err on the side of believing that every human being is of equal worth and has an equal right to direct her or his own life.

The article affirms some key facts-of-life, but dances around the unpleasant conclusion the science appears to be heading towards.

Observing the world around us in a detached, scientific way raises the unavoidable truth that some human cultures are successfully 'sustainable,' and some are not.

The thousands of people streaming from unsuccessful Islamic, African and Latin American regions into the West, each year, offer teeming, breeding testimony to this reality.

While relatively-recent Western politics and economic policy are certainly to blame for some modern Third World problems, the West cannot be held responsible for the Moslem & African abuse and forced breeding of children, or the unsupportable families in Latin America. Nobody here's forcing them to mate or refuse birth control.

More to the point, Western exploitation would never be allowed to take root if subject populations contained the cultural wherewithal to resist. They do not, and are thus exploited, because the sexual corruption found in such cultures shapes and feeds their political corruption.

As the author alludes to, but does not expound on, relative cultural success appears to be directly linked to gender relations.

Of course, it's politically incorrect to suggest that all cultures are not somehow, intrinsically 'valuable.'

Unfortunately, the result of such delicate consideration for the feelings of our neighbors to the middle east and south has been the population overrun we're currently seeing in Europe and the southeastern U.S.

People who want to reaffirm the intrinsic value of Islamic and African cultures ought to try living amongst them for a while. Might open up a whole new perspective, especially for sympathetic women.

Males in those cultures, whether for reasons of environment & economy; or perhaps genetics; appear to be unable to bridge the gap between sexuality and reason. The females, in many cases, lap up the abuse, encourage it, or fail to act to ameliorate it.

Open borders perpetuate the problem, because they prevent nature from taking her course and reducing unsustainable populations through disease, famine, etc. Western immigration policy is an ill-conceived outlet valve that will allow unsuccessful cultures to continue to reproduce to the point of no return for everybody.

At some point, the West and Far East will have to decide how far we'd like to be overrun before we decide to tamp the valve and preserve reason-based culture.

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what about eliminating those who have stolen the most from others?
Posted by: avatar_singh on Jun 11, 2008 3:15 PM   
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The obvious answer is sorting out one or two group of people and then problem of looters will be taken care of.Will thoswe who advocate that population control will make that sacrifice based on HOW MUCH RESOURCES THEY HAVE STOLEN FDROM OTHERS UNLAWFULLY?


http://www.larouchepac.com/news/2008/06/10/
READ THIS ARTICLE--

How To Shape History
Increase Decrease

- HOW TO SHAPE HISTORY -

-by Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr. -

-June 9, 2008-


quote--" Since about 1987, the world, including our U.S., for example, has entered into what has now become a plunging down-phase in the economy and culture of our planet taken as a whole. This is a plunge, which, if continued, would mean an accelerating collapse of physical conditions of life and of population, down to a level of misery of a world population which would, itself, shrink rapidly from a present level of about six-and-a-half billions human beings, to such goals as the reduced level of about two billions maximum demanded by Britain's Prince Philip of the World Wildlife Fund, or to the one billion or less demanded by even more radical, present-day neo-malthusians looking back fondly to the so-called "Middle Ages."

This collapse is presently accelerating at what now threatens to become, like the rising price of "spot market" petroleum, awesome rates. It is being caused by nothing as much as the policies radiated from past and present Malthusians, as from the time of the satanic H.G. Wells and Bertrand Russell, through those present co-thinkers of former U.S. Vice-President Al Gore, circles which share the pro-"environmentalist" world-outlook of the neo-Malthusian Prince Philip. So far, admittedly, the relative rate of collapse toward a condition of virtual world famine, is apparently more acute in rate among the relatively poor strata of so-called developed nations, such as North America and western and central Europe, but this is temporary, and that because of the more immediate effects of long-term Malthusian strategy, also called "globalization," which is fairly named "a new New Tower Of Babel" policy. That policy is premised on the assumption, that the presently ongoing collapse and depopulation of the previously more developed regions of the world, as in western and central Europe and North America, like that done to the former Soviet Union after 1990, would soon ensure the general collapse of all civilization, world-wide, a general collapse which is presently under way, unless some leading nations decide, soon, to change their present ways.

The effects of the explicitly pro-genocidal, current, neo-Malthusian cultural and economic policies of Prince Philip's World Wildlife Fund, confront us with relevant evidence of the reason that my principles of successful long-range economic and related forecasting have succeeded where my so-called competition was wrong. "

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Population Control
Posted by: trouble on Jun 13, 2008 10:24 AM   
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I've had a couple of e-mails posted on the internet, go to http://ufo.whipnet.org/xdocs/alien.aids/ to view them. The HIV/AIDS virus is not of an earthly origin. If AIDS doesn't get you, the adverse effects of depleted uranium will. I'm "SG", Steve Gillespie, I'm one of the US servicemen inoculated with the vaccine/cure for the HIV/AIDS virus in 1971. Ask Sen. McCain, he knows who I am.

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Thanks for your sharing.
Posted by: fanyigongsi on Jun 15, 2008 8:33 PM   
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Who can translate these Chinese for me? Many many thanks!

Chinese: 上海译佰翻译公司是一家业内知名的上海翻译公司

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Thanks for your story
Posted by: fanyigongsi on Jun 15, 2008 8:36 PM   
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Your letter is good. I'd say something in Japenese:

译佰设立有北京翻译公司分部,能够提供同声传译同传设备出租的服务。

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Sigh... they never learn
Posted by: jstepp590 on Jun 16, 2008 7:41 AM   
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It's not that I'm not agreeing with the author. As populations increase so will the pressures. It's just that we already know the answer to the problem, if anyone will take the time to read something serious.

www.permanent.com

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nature is an amazing thing...
Posted by: Bearzerker on Jun 16, 2008 1:15 PM   
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... it corrects things as and when it needs!

over population needs to be addressed or it WILL address it by mother nature

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Half Right
Posted by: Jeff Hoffman on Jun 18, 2008 11:01 AM   
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This essay provides half of the solution to human overpopulation, but it unfortunately overemphasizes women's desires. While it's true that the large majority of women would choose small families, the priority should be what's good for the Earth, not what half the members of only one species want.

The other half of the solution is a China-type one-child-family policy. It has worked very well in China to greatly lower the birth rate well below two per family, which is what's needed until human population is greatly reduced from its current level. Empower women by providing free and unrestricted birth control and abortion everywhere to everyone, but also create a very strong carrot and stick one-child-family program.

With global warming, the sixth great extinction, massive destruction of natural ecosystems, coral dying, acidification of the oceans, and human pollution everywhere, we are witnessing the end of life as we know it. The Earth can't wait for the unknowing, uncaring majority to realize that there are far too many of us. Without a strong government-enforced program, merely empowering women will take far too long to accomplish the needed population reduction.

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