REPRODUCTIVE JUSTICE  
Washington Post Writers Group / By Marie Cocco
comments_imageCOMMENTS: 213

Election 08: Misogyny I Will Not Miss

When the Democratic primaries end, we might finally get a break from this country's orgiastic display of woman-hating.
May 16, 2008  |  
 
 
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As the Democratic nomination contest slouches toward a close, it's time to take stock of what I will not miss.

I will not miss seeing advertisements for T-shirts that bear the slogan "Bros before Hos." The shirts depict Barack Obama (the Bro) and Hillary Clinton (the Ho) and are widely sold on the Internet.


I will not miss walking past airport concessions selling the Hillary Nutcracker, a device in which a pantsuit-clad Clinton doll opens her legs to reveal stainless-steel thighs that, well, bust nuts. I won't miss television and newspaper stories that make light of the novelty item.


I won't miss episodes like the one in which liberal radio personality Randi Rhodes called Clinton a "big [expletive] whore" and said the same about former vice presidential nominee Geraldine Ferraro. Rhodes was appearing at an event sponsored by a San Francisco radio station, before an audience of appreciative Obama supporters -- one of whom had promoted the evening on the presumptive Democratic nominee's official campaign Web site.


I won't miss Citizens United Not Timid (no acronym, please), an anti-Clinton group founded by Republican guru Roger Stone.


Political discourse will at last be free of jokes like this one, told last week by magician Penn Jillette on MSNBC: "Obama did great in February, and that's because that was Black History Month. And now Hillary's doing much better 'cause it's White Bitch Month, right?" Co-hosts Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski rebuked Jillette.


I won't miss political commentators (including National Public Radio political editor Ken Rudin and Andrew Sullivan, the columnist and blogger) who compare Clinton to the Glenn Close character in the movie "Fatal Attraction." In the iconic 1987 film, Close played an independent New York woman who has an affair with a married man played by Michael Douglas. When the liaison ends, the jilted woman becomes a deranged, knife-wielding stalker who terrorizes the man's blissful suburban family. Message: Psychopathic home-wrecker, begone.


The airwaves will at last be free of comments that liken Clinton to a "she-devil" (Chris Matthews on MSNBC, who helpfully supplied an on-screen mock-up of Clinton sprouting horns). Or those who offer that she's "looking like everyone's first wife standing outside a probate court" (Mike Barnicle, also on MSNBC).


But perhaps it is not wives who are so very problematic. Maybe it's mothers. Because, after all, Clinton is more like "a scolding mother, talking down to a child" (Jack Cafferty on CNN).


When all other images fail, there is one other I will not miss. That is, the down-to-the-basics, simplest one: "White women are a problem, that's -- you know, we all live with that" (William Kristol of Fox News).


I won't miss reading another treatise by a man or woman, of the left or right, who says that sexism has had not even a teeny-weeny bit of influence on the course of the Democratic campaign. To hint that sexism might possibly have had a minimal role is to play that risible "gender card."


Most of all, I will not miss the silence.


I will not miss the deafening, depressing silence of Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean or other leading Democrats, who to my knowledge (with the exception of Sen. Barbara Mikulski of Maryland) haven't publicly uttered a word of outrage at the unrelenting, sex-based hate that has been hurled at a former first lady and two-term senator from New York. Among those holding their tongues are hundreds of Democrats for whom Clinton has campaigned and raised millions of dollars. Don Imus endured more public ire from the political class when he insulted the Rutgers University women's basketball team.


Would the silence prevail if Obama's likeness were put on a tap-dancing doll that was sold at airports? Would the media figures who dole out precious face time to these politicians be such pals if they'd compared Obama with a character in a blaxploitation film? And how would crude references to Obama's sex organs play?


There are many reasons Clinton is losing the nomination contest, some having to do with her strategic mistakes, others with the groundswell for "change." But for all Clinton's political blemishes, the darker stain that has been exposed is the hatred of women that is accepted as a part of our culture.
Marie Cocco is a prize-winning syndicated columnist on political and cultural topics for The Washington Post Writers Group. She is a frequent commentator on national TV and radio shows.
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Patriarchy!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: 23skidoo on May 16, 2008 12:18 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is it so hard to grasp? Hating Hillary is not the same as hating all women!

I am starting to hate on the absurdly overused word 'misogyny'.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Patriarchy! Posted by: leta
» RE: Patriarchy! Posted by: cmaukonen
» RE: The patriarchy must die! Posted by: Beepath
» RE: Are you a man? Posted by: Techubus
» RE: Patriarchy! Posted by: Tombo
» Exactly! Posted by: fanny666
» RE: xactly! Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: xactly! Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: xactly! Posted by: MisterWu
» RE: xactly! Posted by: lenioui
» RE: Patriarchy! Posted by: raywigton
» RE: Patriarchy! Posted by: lenioui
» CUNT Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: CUNT Posted by: lenioui
» I'm sorry Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: I'm sorry Posted by: lenioui

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Buhhhh
[Report this comment]
Posted by: g50 on May 16, 2008 1:51 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Shut up lady, she lost because she ran an awful campaign. She snatched defeat from the jaws of victory herself. While there is certainly misogyny and sexism, I have seen as many people on "our side" take it as an article of faith that white, straight Christians are essentially bad people, and with far more seriousness and directness than any perceived hatred of women. Not to mention that Hillary is not a stand in for all women, and that sexism is much more pervasive in economic relations than in political or other social situations. Banging this drum is an indication of shallow thinking.

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» RE: Buhhhh Posted by: g50
» RE:Any rude bag of wind Posted by: boydranchitos
» RE: Any rude bag of wind Posted by: Techubus
» Patriarchal misogynist! Posted by: bornxeyed

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Oy Vey
[Report this comment]
Posted by: fratricide08 on May 16, 2008 2:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...and like clockwork people come out of the woodwork to defend themselves from charges that haven't been leveled against them and to generally deny/minimize sexism in our society. It would be funny if weren't so tragic.

Unless your name is William Kristol, Chris Matthews, or have engaged in sexism and misogyny then this article is likely not about you. Further, the author is in no way saying that Clinton lost because of sexism or that disagreeing with Clinton is sexist. That said, when it gets to the point that broaching the issue of sexism and/or bringing up concrete examples of it elicits a rush of denials and defenses of things you've not been accused of then it's time for you to examine your own prejudices. It's much like reacting to the statement "stealing is wrong," from your preacher's sermon to the whole congregation by standing up and screaming at the top of your lungs that you're not a thief. Some folks, "doth protest too much."

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» RE: Oy Vey Posted by: rinpochet
» RE: Oy Vey Amen Posted by: dobka
» Hillary's Misogyny of Race Posted by: Prairie Waif

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by any other name......
[Report this comment]
Posted by: carbon-based on May 16, 2008 2:57 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Good article and a point I wondered why more people havent brought up. Obama, black or white, or both, is part of the boys network.. hidden is the question, can a women really run the country?

I'm no great Hillary fan and becoming less of an Obama fan as this mess continues.

BTW, lets not forget Obama's "sweetie" comment to the female reporter yesterday. Seems like no big deal but then, if the reporter had said "hey boy, answer this for me" I suspect an uproar with ensue.

Let the democratic "party" continue.. makes for great reality TV - typical dysfunctional family.

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» RE: by any other name...... Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: by any other name...... Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: by any other name...... Posted by: Tat106
» RE: by any other name...... Posted by: carbon-based

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Deb
[Report this comment]
Posted by: debmcd on May 16, 2008 3:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't help but believe that the reason most men are insulting hateful misogynists is that they are so afraid of losing any power to a woman that they will do or say absolutely anything to make her go away. I never heard the pundits talking about fashion in the House or Senate before Nancy Pelosi became Majority Leader and how long did we have to hear about Hillary's cleavage after her appearance on the floor of the Senate. Did anyone talk about what Senator Craig was wearing when he was arrested for being nasty in a men's room? Did the claws come out on Fox Noise when Senator Vitter got caught sleeping with hookers? But there was enough written about what his poor wife wore to his press conference. He was damn lucky to have a partner there to lean on, even though she had to be humiliated. All the self important men in the news for a variety of reasons and I can't remember one story about the bitch syndrome or clothing or that oh so important question, Do we want a female finger on the button during that time of the month? Scared out of their minds that if we actually took some power from them, it would be all over. The wars...done. The military industrial complex...cut back to make spending available for peoples'social programs and infrastructure and education and healthcare. Scared out of their minds. We have more power than they give us credit for and sooner or later it will prove to be their downfall. They will be so busy paying attention to themselves that we could have them rounded up and corralled before they could call their mommies.

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» RE: Deb Posted by: alanr
» RE: Deb Posted by: JoeZ
» RE: Deb Posted by: poco

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It isn't always misogyny
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Moira61 on May 16, 2008 3:51 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For me, I hate the dirty campaign she ran and fact that she's a blatant liar and that she voted for the Iraq war. She's full of snotty little comments when it comes to talking about Obama, she's cleaved the Democratic party in two and I'm not sure if it can get back by November to get Obama in the White House. I'll never forget how she said in an interview that "I WILL be the nominee" - the arrogance was appalling. When she more or less said that McCain would make a better president than Obama, that was it for me. Remember, "Senator McCain and I will bring experience to the White House and Sen. Obama made a speech"? These are the things that have cost Hillary Clinton the nomination - not misogyny.

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» RE: It isn't always misogyny Posted by: Moira61
» RE: It isn't always misogyny Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: It isn't always misogyny Posted by: bbfmail
» RED HERRING Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: It isn't always misogyny Posted by: anninroosevelt
» RE: It isn't always misogyny Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: It isn't always misogyny Posted by: marie.vorrath
» RE: It isn't always misogyny Posted by: alphacatone
» RE: It isn't always misogyny Posted by: marie.vorrath
» Truth can sometimes be funny! Posted by: countingdaisies
» Y'know, it CAN be both Posted by: hurricane hugo

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Deb
[Report this comment]
Posted by: debmcd on May 16, 2008 3:57 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't help but believe that the reason most men are insulting hateful misogynists is that they are so afraid of losing any power to a woman that they will do or say absolutely anything to make her go away. I never heard the pundits talking about fashion in the House or Senate before Nancy Pelosi became Majority Leader and how long did we have to hear about Hillary's cleavage after her appearance on the floor of the Senate. Did anyone talk about what Senator Craig was wearing when he was arrested for being nasty in a men's room? Did the claws come out on Fox Noise when Senator Vitter got caught sleeping with hookers? But there was enough written about what his poor wife wore to his press conference. He was damn lucky to have a partner there to lean on, even though she had to be humiliated. All the self important men in the news for a variety of reasons and I can't remember one story about the bitch syndrome or clothing or that oh so important question, Do we want a female finger on the button during that time of the month? Scared out of their minds that if we actually took some power from them, it would be all over. The wars...done. The military industrial complex...cut back to make spending available for peoples'social programs and infrastructure and education and healthcare. Scared out of their minds. We have more power than they give us credit for and sooner or later it will prove to be their downfall. They will be so busy paying attention to themselves that we could have them rounded up and corralled before they could call their mommies. Okay, it's wishful thinking but it's a good fantasy and men are so stupid that they might just let their guard down long enough for us to take over. Put them in front of a television with food and they'd never know what hit them.

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» RE: Deb Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Deb Posted by: Walks-in-Storms

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Funny thing is...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: jnelson4765 on May 16, 2008 4:11 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
those attacks you do see are primarily coming from the 40+ set - those who grew up before the NOW started kicking every shin in sight, and frankly changed how the next generation viewed women. Those of us who grew up in the aftermath of the ERA fight had a whole different experience of women in politics, and are far more willing to vote for a woman - and less likely to use that nasty, embarrassing, sexist crap in politics.

I didn't support Senator Clinton, but that's not a slur on her. She is one of the most effective political operators in the country, and I think she does better in the Senate where her skills are put to better use. Senator Obama gets me exited about politics, which is something I've never had happen.

So yeah, there are still male chauvinist pigs out there. They're relics. Artifacts of a more unpleasant time, and are going to fade into irrelevancy soon enough The nastiness about the Clinton campaign is the flailing about of a male-dominated power structure getting sucker-punched. We will have a woman as president, but the first one is going to get a whole pile of shit dumped on her. The women who run for high office afterward will have an easier time of it because of this campaign.

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Winning
[Report this comment]
Posted by: kepstein7777 on May 16, 2008 4:20 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unless you've been living in a bubble, it's pretty clear that Hillary is an establishment politician first, and possibly a woman somewhere down the list. Winning is everything, as she said herself in the interview. She would gladly sell all of womankind into sex slavery if she thought it would help her campaign.

All the name-calling is politics as usual, however much the feminist establishment would love for all women to take it personally. Unfortunately, some women seem to be taking the bait, and voting for Hillary just because she's a woman.

If she were elected, the only advantage might be a few moments of awkward silence among those who thought a female politician would change the world, kind of like when Nancy Pelosi became House Speaker.

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Is She A Martyr?
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Posted by: dustinblythe on May 16, 2008 5:15 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While jokes about Hillary abound, is this really much different simply because she is a woman? This is not much different than any other political figure's experience on the national stage. Gerald Ford was not a bumbling fool, Carter was not a simple peanut farmer, Reagan was not a doddering old man, George H.W. Bush was not a wimp and Bill Clinton was not "Bubba". At the risk of being labeled a "misogynist" myself, Hillary seems to play the "woman card" whenever it suits her needs. I recall that earlier this year she complained about all of the men in the Democratic primary picking on her. As she later said about Obama, "if you can't stand the heat...".

The caricature is what sticks. Of course, one persons caricature is another persons stereotype. One of my Senators, Evan Bayh, has consistently said that Hillary "has a spine of steel". Even John Edwards alluded to that in his speech Wednesday. Hillary was one of the first "First Ladies" to eschew the traditional subservient domestic role. She was an assistant on the Watergate impeachement team, she tried to strongarm a healthcare plan in the 90's, she ran for Senate from New York although she was barely a resident of the state and she has now, twice, broken down in tears on the campaign trail. To a lot of people that smacks of "calculating". Right or wrong.

There have been "misogynistic" comments made, just as there have been racial comments made about Obama. I do not think there is a widespread "misogynist conspiracy" out there, however. Something Chris Rock said pretty much sums it up: "I know the country is ready for a woman to be President, but does it have to be THIS WOMAN?!?"

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» RE: Is She A Martyr? Posted by: fork
» CHRIS ROCK IS AN IDIOT Posted by: bbfmail

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Yawn...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: PJAW on May 16, 2008 5:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess the central question is, with so much to dislike about this person, why have so many chosen gender as a vehicle for their expression of that dislike? I can only assume that it's because gender is the easiest path to take. Misogynists are intellectually lazy, as are racists. What's new? Is misogyny the reason Hillary's quest for the presidency failed? I don't believe it.

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» RE: Yawn... Posted by: Jefferson's Guardian

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Here's what I won't miss
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Posted by: Eekamouse on May 16, 2008 6:30 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I will not miss people who equate my distaste for Hillary Clinton as misogyny.

I will not miss people who support Hillary Clinton simply because she sports female reproductive organs while ignoring the fact that the Clinton political machine has been one of the worst things to happen to the Democratic party.

Put up a decent woman as a candidate (i.e. a candidate not propped up by the corporate wing of the party) and I would be happy to vote for her.

A vote for Hillary Clinton is a vote for the DLC and a vote for keeping control of the Democratic party in the hands of a few rich people rather than the many who the party is supposed to represent.

I will not miss people who would support such a thing just to put a woman in the White House.

Nor will I miss the hysterical tone taken by some feminists when they discuss this race. It is the tone of people who can't see beyond one issue and it is a setback to feminism in general.

I will not miss articles like this one.

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» Agreed! Posted by: dustinblythe
» RE: Here's what I won't miss Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» Who's hysterical here? Posted by: YogiBear

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Fearless Manatee Hunter
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Posted by: fearlessmanateehunter on May 16, 2008 6:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So....., What's new......? Tell me something I didn't know, please......

Christians, Jews, Moslems and Mormons have fundamentally structured our cultures with misogyny as one of the basic compounds, the other being ignorance.

Take off your Burka and burn it.

I am the Fearless Manatee Hunter, killer of the gentle Sea Cow.

Best regards,

FMH

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» RE: Fearless Manatee Hunter Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: Fearless Manatee Hunter Posted by: Squarehead

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You want some cheese with that whine, Ms. Coco?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: sausage on May 16, 2008 6:40 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I will never vote for Hillary Clinton for president. I would rather "throw" my vote away by casting my ballot for Ralph Nader.

Why?

Because I'm a misogynist?

No. In the Eighties I supported Democrat Roxanne Conlin's Iowa gubernatorial bid, only to see it founder when it was disclosed, she paid no state income taxes for 1981, in part because she and her husband took advantage of tax shelters that she had denounced.

And I volunteered in '84 for the Walter Mondale-Geraldine Ferrero presidential campaign. So I was deeply offended by her seemingly "racist" statement "If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman (of any color) he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept."

No I will never vote for Hillary Clinton because she is, like so many upper-middle class suburban-raised whites who came of age during the Vietnam War era and who currently control the Democratic Leadership Council, a Democrat In Name Only. A second Clinton White House will mean more privatization of governmental services and more de-regualtion, a surefire recipe for disaster.

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Elderlywhitewomanfeminist
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Posted by: Mary Price on May 16, 2008 6:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hilary is not losing because of her gender, nor are comments about her caused by her gender. She, personally, causes these statements against her. Her statements about herself and Sen. Obama have been COMPLETELY OUTRAGEOUS...and in fact, if she hadn't been a woman and a Clinton she would have been dismissed long ago.

There are so many things the press could have said and didn't: i.e. when she so smugly said about Obama's pastor..."he wouldn't have been my pastor." ..implying she would have left the church. Well, a lot of women would have said about her husband, "He wouldn't have been my husband."

Her push polling has not been hopped on my the media AT ALL and her handing out street money in West Virginia has not been covered at all. Her changing the goal post of what is a win, arguing for not following the rules, are every real feminist's worst shudder, because they plan into what men hate about women's behavior...not fighting fair! Believe me if Sen. Obama had done any of these things he would have been blasted.

I started out this season feeling that all of the Democratic candidates were good, but leaned toward's HRC because she was a woman and because of her past history, especially as a children's advocate. However, once she started using despicable tactics, as she did in South Carolina, and since, I started looking at her more objectively. I don't like what I now see. I believe her greediness for power has changed her, and it saddens me deeply. I think she feels entitled and that is not what should cause people to vote for her.

In summary, I don't think it is because of her gender that people have developed an antipathy towards her. I think it is because SHE is who she is...her own behavior has turned people against her. I would be against a man who did the same things.

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» RE: lderlywhitewomanfeminist Posted by: anninroosevelt
» RE: lderlywhitewomanfeminist Posted by: countingdaisies

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Michelle Obama...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Q30 on May 16, 2008 7:03 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...didn't vote for Hillary in the Illinois primary. Is she a misogynist, too?

Really, no one's ever answered this question.

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» RE: Michelle Obama... Posted by: emmas
» RE: Michelle Obama... Posted by: ezilla
» RE: Michelle Obama... Posted by: lenioui

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Marie Coco victimology passe
[Report this comment]
Posted by: euphobot on May 16, 2008 7:27 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The healthiest, wealthiest, most educated, active and influential generation of women in history spend 85 percent of consumer dollars.

Not a very credible group to whine that they victims of anything especially misogyny.

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» Excellent reasoning Posted by: NWCrow
» RE: xcellent reasoning Posted by: ezilla

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bitch....
[Report this comment]
Posted by: mrmystery on May 16, 2008 7:35 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This isn't as black and white of an issue as the author would like to assume. It's important to realize that Hillary has done so much to play into the "white bitch" stereotype. She cried as a publicity stunt in NH to get people to feel sorry for her. In fact, she tries to get people to feel sorry for her whenever she can. Her emotions are schizophrenic as hell, praising Barack one day, then animately bashing him in a press conference the next. She lies all the time, Bosnia, bringing peace to Ireland, etc. She attempts to change rules when it benefits her such as seating the Michigan and Florida delegates after she agreed not too. She's willing to drag down the democrat party for her own selfish benefit. Yes, the democrats have already been very damaged by Hillary's campaign.

So, here's my point - Yes, the misogyny played out in this campaign has been bad. But, there's a lot more grey area in this issue than that because Hillary has played the stereotype well and a lot of people are pissed at her for it, including me. She's a bitch, and I don't know a better word to describe her, just like Mccain is a dick.

Also, just to point out, the misogyny that has been used against Hillary is minimal compared to the racism that has been used against Barack. Also, the misogyny used has nothing to do with Barack's actions. However, Hillary and Bill Clinton have repeatedly used racism against Barack, which also plays into the "bitch" stereotype. This woman will say anything to gain power.

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» RE: bitch.... Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: bitch.... Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: bitch....and a ho Posted by: countingdaisies

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There Could Be A Price To Pay
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Posted by: Southern Gal on May 16, 2008 7:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with this author. There has been blatant sexism from the media, the pundits, the bloggers and the posters regarding Hillary Clinton's campaign. As a woman I despise that. Many of the comments made on Alternet about Hillary are hateful. Some women including me have gotten the message. If you are not part of the good old boys network, you can forget it. I was reared to respect people regardless of gender, race, religion, income status, education and working class status. I was reared to believe that people want dignity more than anything in their lives. The sexism and hatefullness associated with criticism of Hillary's campaign has been eye opening for me. Some of my women friends have shared with me that they will not campaign for or vote for Barack Obama. Since they won't vote for John McCain, the will disengage from politics and stay home. Fine you say. If this race is a blow out it won't matter. If it is close it will matter.

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» RE: There Could Be A Price To Pay Posted by: fatbradley

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gemajabe
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Posted by: gemajabe on May 16, 2008 8:04 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you so much for this piece. As the majority of hateful responses testify to, you hit the nail on the head by illuminating the entrenched sexism that is an integral part of this society. Women have fought hard, but they still have a long way to go before they can wrest male priviledge away from the Executive Branch. If it wasn't Hillary Clinton, there would have been other reasons not to vote for a woman for President when a male was available.

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» RE: gemajabe Posted by: phatkhat
» A woman, yes ... but not Hillary Posted by: countingdaisies

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jchernic
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Posted by: jchernic on May 16, 2008 8:23 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Strong women have always scared the hell out of most of the wimps who call themselves men - having been married to two strong women (first wife deceased) for over fifty years, I know how valuable a partner such persons are. I'm a Republican, but I can tell you that what this country needs is a strong woman leader, not a wimp like the current democratic male candidate.

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» RE: jchernic Posted by: g50
» RE: jchernic Posted by: bornxeyed

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The Twin Evils
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Posted by: k_pr on May 16, 2008 8:25 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is really frustrating is that we as a liberal and inclusive party are separating sexism and racism. It is unfortunate that Obama has not called people on the former and that Clinton has relied on the latter to stay in this race (the W.Va. responses on primary day.)

We can do better on both counts.

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Actually it is women we hate . . .
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on May 16, 2008 8:34 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's the incredibly stupid things feminists have made the hallmark of their vacuous movement. "All men are rapists and that's all they are!" --Marilyn French. "...the greatest danger that military women in Iraq and Afghanistan face is from their male peers and officers.” -Nancy Van Ness, the WIP. Et Cetera. Oops, almost forgot that story of Hillary under fire in Kosovo. Why duck, Hillary? - after after all the guys in your entourage are much more dangerous than the snipers. On second thought, girls, keep talking - it's comical as hell.

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» Feminists Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: Feminists Posted by: Walks-in-Storms

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Someone please explain to me why Hillary is feminist hero
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Posted by: Jasonix on May 16, 2008 8:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Aside from being married to Bill Clinton, Hillary has done nothing to merit a place on the national stage. She served on Wal-mart's corporate board. She's done some legal work. That's it. Even her stint as a U.S. Senator happened because her last name's Clinton. I thought that feminism was supposed to be about having the opportunities to make the most of yourself, and being rewarded for your own accomplishments. Instead, it seems like we're supposed to believe that Hillary was the "power behind the throne," and reward Hillary for using her apparent feminine wiles to manipulate a powerful man to further her own ambitions (and not even think that perhaps it's her husband who has ambitions that he's using her to attain).

The fact that the media has never questioned Hillary Clinton's comical campaign theme of "experience," it seems that the media is hesitant to even appear sexist toward her.

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It's not just misogyny.
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Posted by: warreno on May 16, 2008 9:01 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I won't miss any of the general troglodytism I see directed either at Hillary Clinton or at Barack Obama. The Hillary Nutcracker is as offensive as the Curious George Obama tee, and for precisely the same reasons.

The small minded toads who hyuck-hyuck at misogynistic jokes are the same ilk as those who snicker at racist ones. I'll be glad to see the entire species of crypto-klan vanish back into the dark, filthy obscurity they deserve.

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» There's a difference Posted by: countingdaisies

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great article
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Posted by: byron on May 16, 2008 9:07 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For the media it's still ok to scorn women. It may hold for the country too; although it's easier to call people on it when they express these sentiments in a local setting. If Hillary were a man, people would admire him for his perseverance and great plans for the country.

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» great point Posted by: ezilla

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mzunguhowru
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Posted by: muzunguhowru on May 16, 2008 9:07 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh grow up! Hillary has given as good as she got an then some coyly introducing age,race,class anything she thought would help her. When you are running for leader of the free world you have to stand up and take it....I voted for her in the Texas Primary (A democrats only chance to vote for president in Texas thanks to the medieval electoral college system) But based on her shameless pandering since then she wouldn't likely get my vote again. No one least of all the republicans who fear her like no other opponent has failed to take her candidacy seriously. Fear is a form of grudging respect. The one thing I hoped this campaign would do is put an end to reflexive whining about gender and race.... obviously it hasn't

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Tired
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Posted by: frogman on May 16, 2008 9:51 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Am I the only one who is tired of upper-middle class white women endlessly whining about how badly life has treated them?

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» RE: Tired Posted by: Prairie Waif

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It is what Hillary is, not her sex
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Posted by: phindrup on May 16, 2008 10:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From afar, There is not a chance that I would vote for Hillary. Not because she is a woman, but because of the values she projects.
I can see little difference between her or McCain.
I am a New Zealander, you might note that we have a female Prime Minister.

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If I like to
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Posted by: steven w on May 16, 2008 10:29 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
have sex with women, does that mean I am a misogenist? What if I flirt or smile?

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» RE: If I like to Posted by: emmas

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You Made Your Own Bed
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Posted by: dockboy on May 16, 2008 10:33 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As another poster said, "Hating Hillary is not the same as hating all women." Anyone who thinks this, must think all women are the same. They must not have any uniqueness or individualism. On the flip side, many of you dems supporting Obama think if anyone doesn't vote for him, that person must be racist.

For four decades, you have made sexism, racism, and every other *ism out there your sole reason for everything. Character, intelligence, common sense, practicality, effective leadership qualities, etc, have become irrelevent to you. "In all fairness" has become your montra. Instead of who the the individual is, and what they stand for being relevent, all you care about is what demographic they're a member of. That is why your party is such a mess right now. You've done this to yourselves.

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» That makes no sense Posted by: fanny666

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you all do NOT get it.
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Posted by: madaha on May 16, 2008 10:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No one is saying you have to support Clinton or you're a misogynist. No one is saying you have to *like* Clinton or you're a misogynist.

What she is saying, is that if you express that dislike by calling her a slut, a ho, and making nutcrakcer dolls in her image, well, then that is appalling MISOGYNY, yes, MISOGYNY.

Get it straight. Boo hoo, you're tired of the WORD "misogyny"? Well, I'm tired of misogyny itself. Can't we work together to treat people with respect by now? If you don't like her policy, talk about her policy, don't just call her a whore.

It's pretty goddamn simple.

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» RE: you all do NOT get it. Posted by: Blue Heron
» RE: you all do NOT get it. Posted by: mrmystery
» RE: you all do NOT get it. Posted by: Blue Heron
» RE: you all do NOT get it. Posted by: mrmystery
» RE: you all do NOT get it. Posted by: lenioui
» RE: you all do NOT get it. Posted by: dockboy
» You do not get it. As usual. Posted by: 23skidoo
» RE: you all do NOT get it. Posted by: madaha
» RE: you all do NOT get it. Posted by: Blue Heron
» RE: you all do NOT get it. Posted by: madaha
» RE: you all do NOT get it. Posted by: Prairie Waif
» marie antoinette Posted by: e rice

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If Obama wins, will the racism against him get better or worse?
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Posted by: fanny666 on May 16, 2008 12:53 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Or how about when it's just McCain vs. Obama- will the "he's an undercover Muslim" rhetoric increase? That's already firmly entrenched in the minds of many regular Americans.

Link

Link

Link

Link

Link

Link

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Wasn't this crap on Truthdig too?
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Posted by: Purple Girl on May 16, 2008 1:34 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please- it is not Gender which has caused such hatred towards Hillary - it is the same repsonse we give to all Corp Whores - regadless of gender. Or are younot aware Quality has a double edge- Take the good and the Bad.
I voted for Bil 2x's was an Avid Supporter & DEFENDER OF Both throughout the '90's- But she has proven herself to be as VILE as Cheney!
I am sick of Feminists who cry when they are not handled with kit gloves, when they cry because they have finallf figured out a Vendetta is NOT Equality.
Retribution for past Transgressions is OUT!
It is Now Libbers who will lead teh fight for ALL to have an equal chance- if they can cut the mustard. No Free passes , No special Priviledges No Pay Backs are a bitch!
Obviously youhave never worked in the work force who makes you Keep Up with the boys- even if you do have Cramps!
Libbers actually relish when some sexist fool puts the Bar Higher, It's a challenge and a testiment to our ablities when we clear it with ease. And should we not and osmeone else does we do not whine, we do not cry foul- we pat them on the back and admit they were better at that Then Us! But will come back to compete no matter the circumstances the next time too!
Woman like You are what woman like me battle agaisnt to dispel the myths then any male if have ever worked with-You give Us a Bad name!BUCK UP!!!

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» did you read the article? Posted by: madaha

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Definitely, twin evils
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Posted by: PaulK on May 16, 2008 1:45 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with the author's raking up a huge pile of sexist attitudes and comments. I wish, however, that there was a second half of the article raking up a huge pile of racist attitudes and comments. I'm pretty carefully in between Hillary and Obama, although at this point Obama has won and that's final.

I'll be honest. I fear Barack Obama's assassination by some wingnut conspiracy. The U.S. has a long and fearsome history of shooting black leaders. Long before Dr. King and Medgar Evers, hundreds of black leaders were hung from trees by entire towns of people. Also, I believe that Robert F. Kennedy was killed by CIA operatives because he was liberal.

As far as labeling Barack, the wingnuts have already done their best to paint the guy as Muslim, or as wearing tribal dress in Ethiopia. Nice whispering campaign. Reverend Wright, for all his foot in mouth disease, is not particularly Muslim. Actually Rev. Wright got smeared something silly, with the pundits picking and choosing 15 or 30 seconds from thousands of minutes of sermons over his lifetime. Nobody once did this to Bush's pastor if he has one, or to Billy Graham, or to Jimmy Carter's pastor.

So Hillary implies that Obama can't win with the white people? At least not in Pennsylvania?

Does sexism exclude racism? Does racism exclude sexism? Is your class of people so put down that you inherit the God-given right to put some unrelated class of people down?

The absence of at least recognizing racism in the article is what bothers me.

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» Good point Posted by: Thetorganization
» RE: Definitely, twin evils Posted by: ezilla

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Wow! This article bombed fast!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Thetorganization on May 16, 2008 1:48 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a young adult male, I don't discern my dislike for Hillary as misoygynist. No, not at all.


My dislike from Hillary comes from a true knowledge of here character, which is dishonest, racist, elitist, and if applied to leading the U.S., destructive as she will do anything she can to please the Neo-conservative thugs in office and the ones who are backing her. Not to mention her comments which continue to divide the democratic party that much further.

I'm not for misogyny at all. I treat all women like everyone else, with respect because I had a good family who raised me as such at an early age, so my anaylsis of Hillary is simply out of that same respect. I just wish that I had something better to say about her or her husband.


Believe me thee, this country is ready for a woman president.


Hillary Clinton is not that woman!

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» Did I say such? No. Posted by: Thetorganization
» RE: Did I say such? No. Posted by: madaha

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sexisem
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Posted by: martius on May 16, 2008 1:57 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
unless you are a women you can not understand how we have been treated. My heart goes out to Hillary Clinton for putting herself in the position to be hated as she is. The reason is she is a women. God forbid that we should have a women the head of this country. She might do a better job then the men that have run this country. Not one man stood up for her when all those things were and still are being said. What does that say about our society. I remember the hoopla when her blouse was open a little bit. Maybe obama should have his fly open. I admire her courage and salute her.

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» RE: sexisem Posted by: leta
» RE: sexisem Posted by: personalpolitical
» Chest talk Posted by: westomoon

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I agree with most of this, but
[Report this comment]
Posted by: texshelters on May 16, 2008 4:19 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
those last two paragraphs of "if it were attacks against Obama". Idiot!

The press has been on Obama about being Muslim, and Rev. Wright, and Farakkan and all sorts of crap! Why make it an Obama treatment vs. Clinton treatment at the end when your article. Your points held up on their own? Why all the divisiveness against Obama when it could have been a moment for people to say, "yeah, that's right, there is sexism, let's do better and call people out on it."

But no, you had to bring in the Obama campaign as if the sexism was his fault. You blew a golden opportunity here. Why anger those that might agree with you by making false analogies? Too late now.

Tex Shelters

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the article is right on IMHO
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Posted by: Shakti on May 16, 2008 5:33 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I totally agree with the author. It is one thing to disagree with a platform or to dislike a candidate's campaign style or whatever. But can you imagine if people leveled this kind of hatred against any other candidate? Edwards? Kucinich? Obama? It would not have been tolerated.

Clinton did not run a good campaign and she misread the zeitgeist. Obama is a 21st century candidate, and he deserved to win. But Clinton deserves our respect for who she is and what she has accomplished in the past. The hatred directed toward her is a sign of misogyny.

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» Take off the blinders Posted by: DuChamp Fitz

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SWEET MARIE
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Posted by: Rosasharn on May 16, 2008 5:49 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Clearly from the above comments, of which any Hillary supporter on this site has experienced, Alternet has more than it's share of very angry misognists. The first clue is the major self DENIAL of all of them. Never will you find anything from them but HATE. Hate fills their irrational souls and they can never get enough. I feel sorry for any women or girl who has to live or come in contact with the "Hillary Haters". What a pitiful, cruel fate.

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» RE: SWEET MARIE Posted by: texshelters

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Well done
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Posted by: BST on May 16, 2008 6:25 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you for the excellent article. I agree with you on all points.

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Excuse me?
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Posted by: lafrance on May 16, 2008 6:28 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As an independent woman I really have not seen much in the way of sexism against Hillary, et. al.
I have seen alot of racism coming from Hillary's camp but, very little sexism directed at her.
As a matter of fact, I've seen many in the media and elsewhere go out of their way to treat her with respect.
What I have seen are her supporters and old school feminists going haywire over hyper sensitivity and imaginary sexism. I've seen women who feel being treated as equals means hating women and that Hillary must be treated with kid gloves.
What I won't miss are women like this writer who thinks sneezing connotes some sort of hate for women.
What I won't miss are the old school feminists who think you are suppose to hate men and think of them as the enemy.
What I won't miss is all the whining and crying about poor me and feeling sorry for themselves because they are women.
I am proud to be a woman and don't feel the least bit sorry about it.
I suggest the writer and all the old school feminists quit feeling sorry for themselves because Hillary ran a lousy campaign and lost.

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» RE: xcuse me? Posted by: poco
» RE: xcuse me? Posted by: ezilla
» RE: xcuse me? Posted by: astockton

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Misogyny I Will Miss
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Posted by: tngreen on May 16, 2008 6:30 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unlike the author of the article, I think that a woman presidential candidate is just what this country has needed to shine a harsh light on the sexism that we have to endure on a daily basis, the sexism that men are unaware of, the sexism that is never discussed. The venom with which many men respond to Clinton's candidacy is no surprise to women who have been paying attention, but it may prove educational to those who have not and to men. Although I will not vote for Sen. Clinton, I will miss her campaign, because as soon as she steps aside and the nastiness subsides, we will all go back to business as usual.

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» RE: Misogyny I Will Miss Posted by: sallythewally

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it isn't sexism
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Posted by: personalpolitical on May 16, 2008 8:09 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
yes, there have been displays here and there a few idiots on the fringe, but the VAST majority of the anti-Hillary sentiment has NOTHING to do with her gender and everything to do with her nasty and divisive campaign and her embrace of Republican talking points and tactics, and it is well deserved. I'm sick of people blaming this on sexism. The vast majority of Americans are comfortable with the idea of a female president, just not THAT female, anyone but her, and for good reason. It would be a dark day for feminism if she was the first woman president..

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» RE: it isn't sexism Posted by: leta
» RE: it isn't sexism Posted by: ezilla
» Yet again... Posted by: emmas

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ridiculous
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Posted by: personalpolitical on May 16, 2008 8:25 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All of the "proof" of sexism from the article is just a handful of stupid comments made by stupid pundits and Republicans over the course of the last year and a half. Yes, some people made stupid comments, some people made overtly sexist comments, but the same idiots have said very racist things about Obama, hell, Hillary's own campaign and surrogates said a hell of a lot more racially offensive things about Obama than Hillary has ever had to endure from sexism. I'm sick of this playing the victim, always trying to find someone else to blame for her failure, as if it is impossible that Hillary's failure could ever be the fault of herself and those around her. No, it must be a vast conspiracy of rabid sexism that can only be seen in a few choice quotes from a few big headed pundits. There has never been any evidence or any logical argument put forth to explain how sexism derailed her campaign, or negatively affected her candidacy at all. On the other hand I can point to dozens of huge mistakes, mistakes that were her fault, that contributed to her losing the election, and she deserved to lose for making many of them. She ran a nasty and divisive campaign, and she ran against a superior candidate with a superior message, and she lost. Grow up and realize that it had nothing to do with sexism. Obama fought against much harder odds to come out on top of this, and he didn't stoop to the level of Republicans to do it. I don't expect Hillary to be able to accept the blame for her own mistakes, that isn't her M.O., but there is no reason her supporters should be in denial too, it isn't your burden, it isn't your pride.

I can't wait for the day we can have the first woman president, and the vast majority of Americans will be excited, they just don't want Hillary to be that person, not because of her gender, but because of who she is. I'm sorry if most of her supporters can't see it, but there are very real and very legitimate reasons to not want her to be president, and NONE of those reasons are related to sexism or gender.

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Hillary's a woman???
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Posted by: Reader11722 on May 16, 2008 10:29 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hillary may be a woman but she's no lady. If Obama lost, the writer of this article would complain about racism. Hillary, Obama, McCain, it does not matter. Unfortunately it took segregationist Governor Wallace to reveal the truth that "there's not a dime's worth of difference between" Republicans and Democrats. The Democrats willingly went along with the War in Iraq, suspension of Habeas Corpus, detaining protesters, banning books like America Deceived (book) from Amazon, stealing private lands (Kelo decision), warrant-less wiretapping and refusing to investigate 9/11 properly. They are both guilty of treason.
Support Dr. Ron Paul and save this great nation.

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Methinks she doth protest too much...
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Posted by: DuChamp Fitz on May 17, 2008 9:31 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hmm. You won't miss all that, but you want to bring it all up one last time first, eh?

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» RE: Funny, you don't LOOK crazy Posted by: westomoon

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I don't think Randi Rhodes's comments qualify
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Posted by: Beastly on May 17, 2008 10:06 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
as sexism. I call male senators whores all the time. Whores, as in prostitutes, willing to do anything for money. In fact nearly all American senators are fucking whores.

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» True that Posted by: radiomorning
» RE: True that Posted by: lenioui
» RE: True that Posted by: radiomorning
» RE: True that Posted by: lenioui

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Hillary is the new Nixon, that is all.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: MisterWu on May 18, 2008 12:21 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would wecome a female president who is not just running to just put herself in the Whitehouse by hook or by crook.

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Misdirection
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Posted by: fem4826 on May 18, 2008 1:59 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not sure whether many of the commenters here either did not read the article, or are purposefully confusing the message to misdirect our attention.

Nothing in it says "shame on you for not supporting Clinton." Rather, it says that the sexism displayed during this campaign season by a large portion of the media (and a large portion of the public) offensive and discrediting to both women and the entire notion of equality. And shame, SHAME on the American people for being silent as it festered and polluted our "democratic" waters. It removed focus from Clinton's policies and goals and onto her personal being.

Productive democratic process is focusing on:
- current stance on national and foreign policy, security, human rights and quality of life, etc
- previous experience in law, politics, and activism and how it affects her candidacy

Misogyny is:
- using sexualized language or gender stereotypes to make personal attacks
- using sexualized language or gender stereotypes to question legitimacy or capability
- using any of the above to detract attention or avoid addressing any real issues
- ultimately: treating her any differently than the other candidates

If you do this, you're engaging in misogyny. Even if you have legitimate reasons for not voting for or supporting Clinton that involve her policies or political history: engaging in these practices is misogyny.

And those of you who are/were truly oblivious to this phenomenon need to consider why. This isn't about one candidate or one woman, but the treatment any woman receives when she dares to be unpopular in the patriarchal public eye. It's about why our culture so ingrained with such sexism - such viral hate for women and femininity - that we don't even notice it.

And why are we, as citizens, supporting this? Why is this particular flavor of oppression tolerated? We should be protesting and boycotting and being outraged!

I know I am.

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» RE: Misdirection Posted by: Ahimsa
» RE: Misdirection Posted by: fem4826
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I agree with the author -- misogyny is alive and well in America
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Posted by: janvdb on May 18, 2008 10:37 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And this is why I have opposed Hillary's campaign from the beginning. I judged months ago that she could not win. One, she's a woman. Two, Clinton baggage.

She was doomed from the start. I'm amazed she did as well as she did and that's a testament both to the Clinton machine and to her own tenacity, hard work, intelligence and moxie.

However, it is just a simple fact that this country remains too misogynist to elect a woman president. Hatred of powerful women, independent women, rich women, women without children, women who don't toe the line and conform to the stereotypes of what women are supposed to be -- it's alive and well.

Believe me, I've lived it myself. I'm a self-made, wealthy woman who has never wanted children myself and the vilification, the hatred, the unfair treatment which has been launched against me all my life is simply shocking. It takes a while to accept the truth that this is what our society is really like, but I've seen it myself.

I think Bill was wrong to push Hillary into this hellish process and Hillary was wrong to put herself through it, though it probably is good for womenkind, net net. To expose how much hatred there still is for us, I guess is a good thing.

I really feel for Hillary and I wish she had never tried this crazy run. It's hard to acknowledge that women still have so far to go and that they still encounter as much hatred, unfair treatment, derision, and nasty, sexist abuse as they continue to do in our society -- but there it is, as plain as the nose on your face.

We have a long way to go, baby.

Jan VanDenBerg

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Do I Live on the Moon?
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Posted by: westomoon on May 19, 2008 12:00 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First, I do know that misogyny is alive and well in America, as is racism, and that they have both been making quite a comeback of recent years -- probably with help from the RW message machine that has done so well out of Balkanizing us in every way imaginable.

Second, I know that I avoid media I know will enrage me, like Fox, out of respect for my cardiovascular health. And I don't shop for "novelties", so I have no idea what's for sale in airport gift shops.

But I feel like I must be living on the moon -- everything in this article was a complete surprise to me. Has anyone here actually seen the tee-shirts this article described? Or the nutcrackers? Did anyone personally hear the "whore" comment? Was it aimed at political behavior (I've been calling McCain a whore ever since he embraced Bush at the 04 R Convention), or was it the classic "slut" comment the author takes it to be?

I mean, I've heard sexist and racist remarks from the Neanderthals who always take the low road, like Pat Buchanan, and I've heard what the candidates have said about each other -- and to my [old-school-feminist] ear, there has been no stream of misogyny from the Obama camp. But all this nasty stuff the author cites as arising from the larger culture -- is it true?

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» RE: Do I Live on the Moon? Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
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It's not you who lives on the moon
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Posted by: dkm on May 25, 2008 5:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While reading the article, I also wondered where the author managed to dig up all the antifemale examples she came up with. I haven't seen a thing yet outside this article that could be characterized as the equivalent of the racial slurs that have been thrown at Obama, even some by the Clinton team.

Contrasting this article with the interview with Patrick Buchanan earlier on the page, I have to say that Buchanan and the author are not too different. Buchanan says that Obama is where he is only because he has African ancestry. This author says that Clinton is where she is only because so many people hate women. Both of them need a reality check.

Another post defined misogyny in much the same way that AIPAC defines antiSemite. Neither of them actually touch on the matter, which is a virulent hatred, not merely a mild distaste for, based solely on a personal characteristic that is irrelevant to any discussion about a person's abilities and attitudes.

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In my opinion, racism is STILL more prevalent in the U.S....
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Posted by: olderworker on May 26, 2008 1:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
..than misogyny. I'm definitely not saying that misogyny isn't problematic, just saying that, as a Caucasian American, I hear a LOT of anti-black (or African-American) statements from people who wouldn't voice these things in public. Recent immigrants from Russia, Ireland, Israel and other countries often ask me "why are black people so rude?" and U.S. born white people often make remarks about black people having "gotten ahead unfairly" or other such crap.
My point is that it is my opinion that, underneath it all, there is more anti-African-American bias than anti-female bias, in U.S. society today.

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Patriarchy!
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Posted by: 23skidoo on May 16, 2008 12:18 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is it so hard to grasp? Hating Hillary is not the same as hating all women!

I am starting to hate on the absurdly overused word 'misogyny'.

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Buhhhh
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Posted by: g50 on May 16, 2008 1:51 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Shut up lady, she lost because she ran an awful campaign. She snatched defeat from the jaws of victory herself. While there is certainly misogyny and sexism, I have seen as many people on "our side" take it as an article of faith that white, straight Christians are essentially bad people, and with far more seriousness and directness than any perceived hatred of women. Not to mention that Hillary is not a stand in for all women, and that sexism is much more pervasive in economic relations than in political or other social situations. Banging this drum is an indication of shallow thinking.

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» Patriarchal misogynist! Posted by: bornxeyed

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Oy Vey
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Posted by: fratricide08 on May 16, 2008 2:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...and like clockwork people come out of the woodwork to defend themselves from charges that haven't been leveled against them and to generally deny/minimize sexism in our society. It would be funny if weren't so tragic.

Unless your name is William Kristol, Chris Matthews, or have engaged in sexism and misogyny then this article is likely not about you. Further, the author is in no way saying that Clinton lost because of sexism or that disagreeing with Clinton is sexist. That said, when it gets to the point that broaching the issue of sexism and/or bringing up concrete examples of it elicits a rush of denials and defenses of things you've not been accused of then it's time for you to examine your own prejudices. It's much like reacting to the statement "stealing is wrong," from your preacher's sermon to the whole congregation by standing up and screaming at the top of your lungs that you're not a thief. Some folks, "doth protest too much."

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» Hillary's Misogyny of Race Posted by: Prairie Waif

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by any other name......
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Posted by: carbon-based on May 16, 2008 2:57 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Good article and a point I wondered why more people havent brought up. Obama, black or white, or both, is part of the boys network.. hidden is the question, can a women really run the country?

I'm no great Hillary fan and becoming less of an Obama fan as this mess continues.

BTW, lets not forget Obama's "sweetie" comment to the female reporter yesterday. Seems like no big deal but then, if the reporter had said "hey boy, answer this for me" I suspect an uproar with ensue.

Let the democratic "party" continue.. makes for great reality TV - typical dysfunctional family.

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Deb
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Posted by: debmcd on May 16, 2008 3:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't help but believe that the reason most men are insulting hateful misogynists is that they are so afraid of losing any power to a woman that they will do or say absolutely anything to make her go away. I never heard the pundits talking about fashion in the House or Senate before Nancy Pelosi became Majority Leader and how long did we have to hear about Hillary's cleavage after her appearance on the floor of the Senate. Did anyone talk about what Senator Craig was wearing when he was arrested for being nasty in a men's room? Did the claws come out on Fox Noise when Senator Vitter got caught sleeping with hookers? But there was enough written about what his poor wife wore to his press conference. He was damn lucky to have a partner there to lean on, even though she had to be humiliated. All the self important men in the news for a variety of reasons and I can't remember one story about the bitch syndrome or clothing or that oh so important question, Do we want a female finger on the button during that time of the month? Scared out of their minds that if we actually took some power from them, it would be all over. The wars...done. The military industrial complex...cut back to make spending available for peoples'social programs and infrastructure and education and healthcare. Scared out of their minds. We have more power than they give us credit for and sooner or later it will prove to be their downfall. They will be so busy paying attention to themselves that we could have them rounded up and corralled before they could call their mommies.

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It isn't always misogyny
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Posted by: Moira61 on May 16, 2008 3:51 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For me, I hate the dirty campaign she ran and fact that she's a blatant liar and that she voted for the Iraq war. She's full of snotty little comments when it comes to talking about Obama, she's cleaved the Democratic party in two and I'm not sure if it can get back by November to get Obama in the White House. I'll never forget how she said in an interview that "I WILL be the nominee" - the arrogance was appalling. When she more or less said that McCain would make a better president than Obama, that was it for me. Remember, "Senator McCain and I will bring experience to the White House and Sen. Obama made a speech"? These are the things that have cost Hillary Clinton the nomination - not misogyny.

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» RE: It isn't always misogyny Posted by: Moira61
» RE: It isn't always misogyny Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: It isn't always misogyny Posted by: bbfmail
» RED HERRING Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: It isn't always misogyny Posted by: anninroosevelt
» RE: It isn't always misogyny Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: It isn't always misogyny Posted by: marie.vorrath
» RE: It isn't always misogyny Posted by: alphacatone
» RE: It isn't always misogyny Posted by: marie.vorrath
» Truth can sometimes be funny! Posted by: countingdaisies
» Y'know, it CAN be both Posted by: hurricane hugo

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Deb
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Posted by: debmcd on May 16, 2008 3:57 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't help but believe that the reason most men are insulting hateful misogynists is that they are so afraid of losing any power to a woman that they will do or say absolutely anything to make her go away. I never heard the pundits talking about fashion in the House or Senate before Nancy Pelosi became Majority Leader and how long did we have to hear about Hillary's cleavage after her appearance on the floor of the Senate. Did anyone talk about what Senator Craig was wearing when he was arrested for being nasty in a men's room? Did the claws come out on Fox Noise when Senator Vitter got caught sleeping with hookers? But there was enough written about what his poor wife wore to his press conference. He was damn lucky to have a partner there to lean on, even though she had to be humiliated. All the self important men in the news for a variety of reasons and I can't remember one story about the bitch syndrome or clothing or that oh so important question, Do we want a female finger on the button during that time of the month? Scared out of their minds that if we actually took some power from them, it would be all over. The wars...done. The military industrial complex...cut back to make spending available for peoples'social programs and infrastructure and education and healthcare. Scared out of their minds. We have more power than they give us credit for and sooner or later it will prove to be their downfall. They will be so busy paying attention to themselves that we could have them rounded up and corralled before they could call their mommies. Okay, it's wishful thinking but it's a good fantasy and men are so stupid that they might just let their guard down long enough for us to take over. Put them in front of a television with food and they'd never know what hit them.

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Funny thing is...
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Posted by: jnelson4765 on May 16, 2008 4:11 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
those attacks you do see are primarily coming from the 40+ set - those who grew up before the NOW started kicking every shin in sight, and frankly changed how the next generation viewed women. Those of us who grew up in the aftermath of the ERA fight had a whole different experience of women in politics, and are far more willing to vote for a woman - and less likely to use that nasty, embarrassing, sexist crap in politics.

I didn't support Senator Clinton, but that's not a slur on her. She is one of the most effective political operators in the country, and I think she does better in the Senate where her skills are put to better use. Senator Obama gets me exited about politics, which is something I've never had happen.

So yeah, there are still male chauvinist pigs out there. They're relics. Artifacts of a more unpleasant time, and are going to fade into irrelevancy soon enough The nastiness about the Clinton campaign is the flailing about of a male-dominated power structure getting sucker-punched. We will have a woman as president, but the first one is going to get a whole pile of shit dumped on her. The women who run for high office afterward will have an easier time of it because of this campaign.

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Winning
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on May 16, 2008 4:20 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unless you've been living in a bubble, it's pretty clear that Hillary is an establishment politician first, and possibly a woman somewhere down the list. Winning is everything, as she said herself in the interview. She would gladly sell all of womankind into sex slavery if she thought it would help her campaign.

All the name-calling is politics as usual, however much the feminist establishment would love for all women to take it personally. Unfortunately, some women seem to be taking the bait, and voting for Hillary just because she's a woman.

If she were elected, the only advantage might be a few moments of awkward silence among those who thought a female politician would change the world, kind of like when Nancy Pelosi became House Speaker.

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Is She A Martyr?
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Posted by: dustinblythe on May 16, 2008 5:15 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While jokes about Hillary abound, is this really much different simply because she is a woman? This is not much different than any other political figure's experience on the national stage. Gerald Ford was not a bumbling fool, Carter was not a simple peanut farmer, Reagan was not a doddering old man, George H.W. Bush was not a wimp and Bill Clinton was not "Bubba". At the risk of being labeled a "misogynist" myself, Hillary seems to play the "woman card" whenever it suits her needs. I recall that earlier this year she complained about all of the men in the Democratic primary picking on her. As she later said about Obama, "if you can't stand the heat...".

The caricature is what sticks. Of course, one persons caricature is another persons stereotype. One of my Senators, Evan Bayh, has consistently said that Hillary "has a spine of steel". Even John Edwards alluded to that in his speech Wednesday. Hillary was one of the first "First Ladies" to eschew the traditional subservient domestic role. She was an assistant on the Watergate impeachement team, she tried to strongarm a healthcare plan in the 90's, she ran for Senate from New York although she was barely a resident of the state and she has now, twice, broken down in tears on the campaign trail. To a lot of people that smacks of "calculating". Right or wrong.

There have been "misogynistic" comments made, just as there have been racial comments made about Obama. I do not think there is a widespread "misogynist conspiracy" out there, however. Something Chris Rock said pretty much sums it up: "I know the country is ready for a woman to be President, but does it have to be THIS WOMAN?!?"

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» RE: Is She A Martyr? Posted by: fork
» CHRIS ROCK IS AN IDIOT Posted by: bbfmail

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Yawn...
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Posted by: PJAW on May 16, 2008 5:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess the central question is, with so much to dislike about this person, why have so many chosen gender as a vehicle for their expression of that dislike? I can only assume that it's because gender is the easiest path to take. Misogynists are intellectually lazy, as are racists. What's new? Is misogyny the reason Hillary's quest for the presidency failed? I don't believe it.

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» RE: Yawn... Posted by: Jefferson's Guardian

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Here's what I won't miss
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Posted by: Eekamouse on May 16, 2008 6:30 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I will not miss people who equate my distaste for Hillary Clinton as misogyny.

I will not miss people who support Hillary Clinton simply because she sports female reproductive organs while ignoring the fact that the Clinton political machine has been one of the worst things to happen to the Democratic party.

Put up a decent woman as a candidate (i.e. a candidate not propped up by the corporate wing of the party) and I would be happy to vote for her.

A vote for Hillary Clinton is a vote for the DLC and a vote for keeping control of the Democratic party in the hands of a few rich people rather than the many who the party is supposed to represent.

I will not miss people who would support such a thing just to put a woman in the White House.

Nor will I miss the hysterical tone taken by some feminists when they discuss this race. It is the tone of people who can't see beyond one issue and it is a setback to feminism in general.

I will not miss articles like this one.

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» Agreed! Posted by: dustinblythe
» RE: Here's what I won't miss Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» Who's hysterical here? Posted by: YogiBear

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Fearless Manatee Hunter
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Posted by: fearlessmanateehunter on May 16, 2008 6:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So....., What's new......? Tell me something I didn't know, please......

Christians, Jews, Moslems and Mormons have fundamentally structured our cultures with misogyny as one of the basic compounds, the other being ignorance.

Take off your Burka and burn it.

I am the Fearless Manatee Hunter, killer of the gentle Sea Cow.

Best regards,

FMH

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You want some cheese with that whine, Ms. Coco?
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Posted by: sausage on May 16, 2008 6:40 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I will never vote for Hillary Clinton for president. I would rather "throw" my vote away by casting my ballot for Ralph Nader.

Why?

Because I'm a misogynist?

No. In the Eighties I supported Democrat Roxanne Conlin's Iowa gubernatorial bid, only to see it founder when it was disclosed, she paid no state income taxes for 1981, in part because she and her husband took advantage of tax shelters that she had denounced.

And I volunteered in '84 for the Walter Mondale-Geraldine Ferrero presidential campaign. So I was deeply offended by her seemingly "racist" statement "If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman (of any color) he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept."

No I will never vote for Hillary Clinton because she is, like so many upper-middle class suburban-raised whites who came of age during the Vietnam War era and who currently control the Democratic Leadership Council, a Democrat In Name Only. A second Clinton White House will mean more privatization of governmental services and more de-regualtion, a surefire recipe for disaster.

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Elderlywhitewomanfeminist
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Posted by: Mary Price on May 16, 2008 6:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hilary is not losing because of her gender, nor are comments about her caused by her gender. She, personally, causes these statements against her. Her statements about herself and Sen. Obama have been COMPLETELY OUTRAGEOUS...and in fact, if she hadn't been a woman and a Clinton she would have been dismissed long ago.

There are so many things the press could have said and didn't: i.e. when she so smugly said about Obama's pastor..."he wouldn't have been my pastor." ..implying she would have left the church. Well, a lot of women would have said about her husband, "He wouldn't have been my husband."

Her push polling has not been hopped on my the media AT ALL and her handing out street money in West Virginia has not been covered at all. Her changing the goal post of what is a win, arguing for not following the rules, are every real feminist's worst shudder, because they plan into what men hate about women's behavior...not fighting fair! Believe me if Sen. Obama had done any of these things he would have been blasted.

I started out this season feeling that all of the Democratic candidates were good, but leaned toward's HRC because she was a woman and because of her past history, especially as a children's advocate. However, once she started using despicable tactics, as she did in South Carolina, and since, I started looking at her more objectively. I don't like what I now see. I believe her greediness for power has changed her, and it saddens me deeply. I think she feels entitled and that is not what should cause people to vote for her.

In summary, I don't think it is because of her gender that people have developed an antipathy towards her. I think it is because SHE is who she is...her own behavior has turned people against her. I would be against a man who did the same things.

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» RE: lderlywhitewomanfeminist Posted by: anninroosevelt
» RE: lderlywhitewomanfeminist Posted by: countingdaisies

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Michelle Obama...
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Posted by: Q30 on May 16, 2008 7:03 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...didn't vote for Hillary in the Illinois primary. Is she a misogynist, too?

Really, no one's ever answered this question.

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» RE: Michelle Obama... Posted by: emmas
» RE: Michelle Obama... Posted by: ezilla
» RE: Michelle Obama... Posted by: lenioui

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Marie Coco victimology passe
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Posted by: euphobot on May 16, 2008 7:27 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The healthiest, wealthiest, most educated, active and influential generation of women in history spend 85 percent of consumer dollars.

Not a very credible group to whine that they victims of anything especially misogyny.

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» Excellent reasoning Posted by: NWCrow
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bitch....
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Posted by: mrmystery on May 16, 2008 7:35 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This isn't as black and white of an issue as the author would like to assume. It's important to realize that Hillary has done so much to play into the "white bitch" stereotype. She cried as a publicity stunt in NH to get people to feel sorry for her. In fact, she tries to get people to feel sorry for her whenever she can. Her emotions are schizophrenic as hell, praising Barack one day, then animately bashing him in a press conference the next. She lies all the time, Bosnia, bringing peace to Ireland, etc. She attempts to change rules when it benefits her such as seating the Michigan and Florida delegates after she agreed not too. She's willing to drag down the democrat party for her own selfish benefit. Yes, the democrats have already been very damaged by Hillary's campaign.

So, here's my point - Yes, the misogyny played out in this campaign has been bad. But, there's a lot more grey area in this issue than that because Hillary has played the stereotype well and a lot of people are pissed at her for it, including me. She's a bitch, and I don't know a better word to describe her, just like Mccain is a dick.

Also, just to point out, the misogyny that has been used against Hillary is minimal compared to the racism that has been used against Barack. Also, the misogyny used has nothing to do with Barack's actions. However, Hillary and Bill Clinton have repeatedly used racism against Barack, which also plays into the "bitch" stereotype. This woman will say anything to gain power.

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» RE: bitch.... Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: bitch.... Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: bitch....and a ho Posted by: countingdaisies

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There Could Be A Price To Pay
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Posted by: Southern Gal on May 16, 2008 7:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with this author. There has been blatant sexism from the media, the pundits, the bloggers and the posters regarding Hillary Clinton's campaign. As a woman I despise that. Many of the comments made on Alternet about Hillary are hateful. Some women including me have gotten the message. If you are not part of the good old boys network, you can forget it. I was reared to respect people regardless of gender, race, religion, income status, education and working class status. I was reared to believe that people want dignity more than anything in their lives. The sexism and hatefullness associated with criticism of Hillary's campaign has been eye opening for me. Some of my women friends have shared with me that they will not campaign for or vote for Barack Obama. Since they won't vote for John McCain, the will disengage from politics and stay home. Fine you say. If this race is a blow out it won't matter. If it is close it will matter.

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» RE: There Could Be A Price To Pay Posted by: fatbradley

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gemajabe
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Posted by: gemajabe on May 16, 2008 8:04 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you so much for this piece. As the majority of hateful responses testify to, you hit the nail on the head by illuminating the entrenched sexism that is an integral part of this society. Women have fought hard, but they still have a long way to go before they can wrest male priviledge away from the Executive Branch. If it wasn't Hillary Clinton, there would have been other reasons not to vote for a woman for President when a male was available.

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» RE: gemajabe Posted by: phatkhat
» A woman, yes ... but not Hillary Posted by: countingdaisies

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jchernic
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Posted by: jchernic on May 16, 2008 8:23 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Strong women have always scared the hell out of most of the wimps who call themselves men - having been married to two strong women (first wife deceased) for over fifty years, I know how valuable a partner such persons are. I'm a Republican, but I can tell you that what this country needs is a strong woman leader, not a wimp like the current democratic male candidate.

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» RE: jchernic Posted by: g50
» RE: jchernic Posted by: bornxeyed

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The Twin Evils
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Posted by: k_pr on May 16, 2008 8:25 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is really frustrating is that we as a liberal and inclusive party are separating sexism and racism. It is unfortunate that Obama has not called people on the former and that Clinton has relied on the latter to stay in this race (the W.Va. responses on primary day.)

We can do better on both counts.

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Actually it is women we hate . . .
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on May 16, 2008 8:34 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's the incredibly stupid things feminists have made the hallmark of their vacuous movement. "All men are rapists and that's all they are!" --Marilyn French. "...the greatest danger that military women in Iraq and Afghanistan face is from their male peers and officers.” -Nancy Van Ness, the WIP. Et Cetera. Oops, almost forgot that story of Hillary under fire in Kosovo. Why duck, Hillary? - after after all the guys in your entourage are much more dangerous than the snipers. On second thought, girls, keep talking - it's comical as hell.

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» Feminists Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: Feminists Posted by: Walks-in-Storms

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Someone please explain to me why Hillary is feminist hero
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Posted by: Jasonix on May 16, 2008 8:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Aside from being married to Bill Clinton, Hillary has done nothing to merit a place on the national stage. She served on Wal-mart's corporate board. She's done some legal work. That's it. Even her stint as a U.S. Senator happened because her last name's Clinton. I thought that feminism was supposed to be about having the opportunities to make the most of yourself, and being rewarded for your own accomplishments. Instead, it seems like we're supposed to believe that Hillary was the "power behind the throne," and reward Hillary for using her apparent feminine wiles to manipulate a powerful man to further her own ambitions (and not even think that perhaps it's her husband who has ambitions that he's using her to attain).

The fact that the media has never questioned Hillary Clinton's comical campaign theme of "experience," it seems that the media is hesitant to even appear sexist toward her.

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It's not just misogyny.
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Posted by: warreno on May 16, 2008 9:01 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I won't miss any of the general troglodytism I see directed either at Hillary Clinton or at Barack Obama. The Hillary Nutcracker is as offensive as the Curious George Obama tee, and for precisely the same reasons.

The small minded toads who hyuck-hyuck at misogynistic jokes are the same ilk as those who snicker at racist ones. I'll be glad to see the entire species of crypto-klan vanish back into the dark, filthy obscurity they deserve.

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» There's a difference Posted by: countingdaisies

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great article
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Posted by: byron on May 16, 2008 9:07 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For the media it's still ok to scorn women. It may hold for the country too; although it's easier to call people on it when they express these sentiments in a local setting. If Hillary were a man, people would admire him for his perseverance and great plans for the country.

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» great point Posted by: ezilla

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mzunguhowru
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Posted by: muzunguhowru on May 16, 2008 9:07 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh grow up! Hillary has given as good as she got an then some coyly introducing age,race,class anything she thought would help her. When you are running for leader of the free world you have to stand up and take it....I voted for her in the Texas Primary (A democrats only chance to vote for president in Texas thanks to the medieval electoral college system) But based on her shameless pandering since then she wouldn't likely get my vote again. No one least of all the republicans who fear her like no other opponent has failed to take her candidacy seriously. Fear is a form of grudging respect. The one thing I hoped this campaign would do is put an end to reflexive whining about gender and race.... obviously it hasn't

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Tired
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Posted by: frogman on May 16, 2008 9:51 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Am I the only one who is tired of upper-middle class white women endlessly whining about how badly life has treated them?

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» RE: Tired Posted by: Prairie Waif

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It is what Hillary is, not her sex
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Posted by: phindrup on May 16, 2008 10:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From afar, There is not a chance that I would vote for Hillary. Not because she is a woman, but because of the values she projects.
I can see little difference between her or McCain.
I am a New Zealander, you might note that we have a female Prime Minister.

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If I like to
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Posted by: steven w on May 16, 2008 10:29 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
have sex with women, does that mean I am a misogenist? What if I flirt or smile?

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» RE: If I like to Posted by: emmas

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You Made Your Own Bed
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Posted by: dockboy on May 16, 2008 10:33 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As another poster said, "Hating Hillary is not the same as hating all women." Anyone who thinks this, must think all women are the same. They must not have any uniqueness or individualism. On the flip side, many of you dems supporting Obama think if anyone doesn't vote for him, that person must be racist.

For four decades, you have made sexism, racism, and every other *ism out there your sole reason for everything. Character, intelligence, common sense, practicality, effective leadership qualities, etc, have become irrelevent to you. "In all fairness" has become your montra. Instead of who the the individual is, and what they stand for being relevent, all you care about is what demographic they're a member of. That is why your party is such a mess right now. You've done this to yourselves.

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» That makes no sense Posted by: fanny666

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you all do NOT get it.
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Posted by: madaha on May 16, 2008 10:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No one is saying you have to support Clinton or you're a misogynist. No one is saying you have to *like* Clinton or you're a misogynist.

What she is saying, is that if you express that dislike by calling her a slut, a ho, and making nutcrakcer dolls in her image, well, then that is appalling MISOGYNY, yes, MISOGYNY.

Get it straight. Boo hoo, you're tired of the WORD "misogyny"? Well, I'm tired of misogyny itself. Can't we work together to treat people with respect by now? If you don't like her policy, talk about her policy, don't just call her a whore.

It's pretty goddamn simple.

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» RE: you all do NOT get it. Posted by: Blue Heron
» RE: you all do NOT get it. Posted by: mrmystery
» RE: you all do NOT get it. Posted by: Blue Heron
» RE: you all do NOT get it. Posted by: mrmystery
» RE: you all do NOT get it. Posted by: lenioui
» RE: you all do NOT get it. Posted by: dockboy
» You do not get it. As usual. Posted by: 23skidoo
» RE: you all do NOT get it. Posted by: madaha
» RE: you all do NOT get it. Posted by: Blue Heron
» RE: you all do NOT get it. Posted by: madaha
» RE: you all do NOT get it. Posted by: Prairie Waif
» marie antoinette Posted by: e rice

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If Obama wins, will the racism against him get better or worse?
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Posted by: fanny666 on May 16, 2008 12:53 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Or how about when it's just McCain vs. Obama- will the "he's an undercover Muslim" rhetoric increase? That's already firmly entrenched in the minds of many regular Americans.

Link

Link

Link

Link

Link

Link

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Wasn't this crap on Truthdig too?
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Posted by: Purple Girl on May 16, 2008 1:34 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please- it is not Gender which has caused such hatred towards Hillary - it is the same repsonse we give to all Corp Whores - regadless of gender. Or are younot aware Quality has a double edge- Take the good and the Bad.
I voted for Bil 2x's was an Avid Supporter & DEFENDER OF Both throughout the '90's- But she has proven herself to be as VILE as Cheney!
I am sick of Feminists who cry when they are not handled with kit gloves, when they cry because they have finallf figured out a Vendetta is NOT Equality.
Retribution for past Transgressions is OUT!
It is Now Libbers who will lead teh fight for ALL to have an equal chance- if they can cut the mustard. No Free passes , No special Priviledges No Pay Backs are a bitch!
Obviously youhave never worked in the work force who makes you Keep Up with the boys- even if you do have Cramps!
Libbers actually relish when some sexist fool puts the Bar Higher, It's a challenge and a testiment to our ablities when we clear it with ease. And should we not and osmeone else does we do not whine, we do not cry foul- we pat them on the back and admit they were better at that Then Us! But will come back to compete no matter the circumstances the next time too!
Woman like You are what woman like me battle agaisnt to dispel the myths then any male if have ever worked with-You give Us a Bad name!BUCK UP!!!

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» did you read the article? Posted by: madaha

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Definitely, twin evils
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Posted by: PaulK on May 16, 2008 1:45 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with the author's raking up a huge pile of sexist attitudes and comments. I wish, however, that there was a second half of the article raking up a huge pile of racist attitudes and comments. I'm pretty carefully in between Hillary and Obama, although at this point Obama has won and that's final.

I'll be honest. I fear Barack Obama's assassination by some wingnut conspiracy. The U.S. has a long and fearsome history of shooting black leaders. Long before Dr. King and Medgar Evers, hundreds of black leaders were hung from trees by entire towns of people. Also, I believe that Robert F. Kennedy was killed by CIA operatives because he was liberal.

As far as labeling Barack, the wingnuts have already done their best to paint the guy as Muslim, or as wearing tribal dress in Ethiopia. Nice whispering campaign. Reverend Wright, for all his foot in mouth disease, is not particularly Muslim. Actually Rev. Wright got smeared something silly, with the pundits picking and choosing 15 or 30 seconds from thousands of minutes of sermons over his lifetime. Nobody once did this to Bush's pastor if he has one, or to Billy Graham, or to Jimmy Carter's pastor.

So Hillary implies that Obama can't win with the white people? At least not in Pennsylvania?

Does sexism exclude racism? Does racism exclude sexism? Is your class of people so put down that you inherit the God-given right to put some unrelated class of people down?

The absence of at least recognizing racism in the article is what bothers me.

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» Good point Posted by: Thetorganization
» RE: Definitely, twin evils Posted by: ezilla

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Wow! This article bombed fast!
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Posted by: Thetorganization on May 16, 2008 1:48 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a young adult male, I don't discern my dislike for Hillary as misoygynist. No, not at all.


My dislike from Hillary comes from a true knowledge of here character, which is dishonest, racist, elitist, and if applied to leading the U.S., destructive as she will do anything she can to please the Neo-conservative thugs in office and the ones who are backing her. Not to mention her comments which continue to divide the democratic party that much further.

I'm not for misogyny at all. I treat all women like everyone else, with respect because I had a good family who raised me as such at an early age, so my anaylsis of Hillary is simply out of that same respect. I just wish that I had something better to say about her or her husband.


Believe me thee, this country is ready for a woman president.


Hillary Clinton is not that woman!

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» Did I say such? No. Posted by: Thetorganization
» RE: Did I say such? No. Posted by: madaha

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sexisem
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Posted by: martius on May 16, 2008 1:57 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
unless you are a women you can not understand how we have been treated. My heart goes out to Hillary Clinton for putting herself in the position to be hated as she is. The reason is she is a women. God forbid that we should have a women the head of this country. She might do a better job then the men that have run this country. Not one man stood up for her when all those things were and still are being said. What does that say about our society. I remember the hoopla when her blouse was open a little bit. Maybe obama should have his fly open. I admire her courage and salute her.

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» RE: sexisem Posted by: leta
» RE: sexisem Posted by: personalpolitical
» Chest talk Posted by: westomoon

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I agree with most of this, but
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Posted by: texshelters on May 16, 2008 4:19 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
those last two paragraphs of "if it were attacks against Obama". Idiot!

The press has been on Obama about being Muslim, and Rev. Wright, and Farakkan and all sorts of crap! Why make it an Obama treatment vs. Clinton treatment at the end when your article. Your points held up on their own? Why all the divisiveness against Obama when it could have been a moment for people to say, "yeah, that's right, there is sexism, let's do better and call people out on it."

But no, you had to bring in the Obama campaign as if the sexism was his fault. You blew a golden opportunity here. Why anger those that might agree with you by making false analogies? Too late now.

Tex Shelters

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the article is right on IMHO
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Posted by: Shakti on May 16, 2008 5:33 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I totally agree with the author. It is one thing to disagree with a platform or to dislike a candidate's campaign style or whatever. But can you imagine if people leveled this kind of hatred against any other candidate? Edwards? Kucinich? Obama? It would not have been tolerated.

Clinton did not run a good campaign and she misread the zeitgeist. Obama is a 21st century candidate, and he deserved to win. But Clinton deserves our respect for who she is and what she has accomplished in the past. The hatred directed toward her is a sign of misogyny.

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» Take off the blinders Posted by: DuChamp Fitz

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SWEET MARIE
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Posted by: Rosasharn on May 16, 2008 5:49 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Clearly from the above comments, of which any Hillary supporter on this site has experienced, Alternet has more than it's share of very angry misognists. The first clue is the major self DENIAL of all of them. Never will you find anything from them but HATE. Hate fills their irrational souls and they can never get enough. I feel sorry for any women or girl who has to live or come in contact with the "Hillary Haters". What a pitiful, cruel fate.

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» RE: SWEET MARIE Posted by: texshelters

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Well done
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Posted by: BST on May 16, 2008 6:25 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you for the excellent article. I agree with you on all points.

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Excuse me?
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Posted by: lafrance on May 16, 2008 6:28 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As an independent woman I really have not seen much in the way of sexism against Hillary, et. al.
I have seen alot of racism coming from Hillary's camp but, very little sexism directed at her.
As a matter of fact, I've seen many in the media and elsewhere go out of their way to treat her with respect.
What I have seen are her supporters and old school feminists going haywire over hyper sensitivity and imaginary sexism. I've seen women who feel being treated as equals means hating women and that Hillary must be treated with kid gloves.
What I won't miss are women like this writer who thinks sneezing connotes some sort of hate for women.
What I won't miss are the old school feminists who think you are suppose to hate men and think of them as the enemy.
What I won't miss is all the whining and crying about poor me and feeling sorry for themselves because they are women.
I am proud to be a woman and don't feel the least bit sorry about it.
I suggest the writer and all the old school feminists quit feeling sorry for themselves because Hillary ran a lousy campaign and lost.

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» RE: xcuse me? Posted by: poco
» RE: xcuse me? Posted by: ezilla
» RE: xcuse me? Posted by: astockton

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Misogyny I Will Miss
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Posted by: tngreen on May 16, 2008 6:30 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unlike the author of the article, I think that a woman presidential candidate is just what this country has needed to shine a harsh light on the sexism that we have to endure on a daily basis, the sexism that men are unaware of, the sexism that is never discussed. The venom with which many men respond to Clinton's candidacy is no surprise to women who have been paying attention, but it may prove educational to those who have not and to men. Although I will not vote for Sen. Clinton, I will miss her campaign, because as soon as she steps aside and the nastiness subsides, we will all go back to business as usual.

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» RE: Misogyny I Will Miss Posted by: sallythewally

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it isn't sexism
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Posted by: personalpolitical on May 16, 2008 8:09 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
yes, there have been displays here and there a few idiots on the fringe, but the VAST majority of the anti-Hillary sentiment has NOTHING to do with her gender and everything to do with her nasty and divisive campaign and her embrace of Republican talking points and tactics, and it is well deserved. I'm sick of people blaming this on sexism. The vast majority of Americans are comfortable with the idea of a female president, just not THAT female, anyone but her, and for good reason. It would be a dark day for feminism if she was the first woman president..

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» RE: it isn't sexism Posted by: leta
» RE: it isn't sexism Posted by: ezilla
» Yet again... Posted by: emmas

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ridiculous
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Posted by: personalpolitical on May 16, 2008 8:25 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All of the "proof" of sexism from the article is just a handful of stupid comments made by stupid pundits and Republicans over the course of the last year and a half. Yes, some people made stupid comments, some people made overtly sexist comments, but the same idiots have said very racist things about Obama, hell, Hillary's own campaign and surrogates said a hell of a lot more racially offensive things about Obama than Hillary has ever had to endure from sexism. I'm sick of this playing the victim, always trying to find someone else to blame for her failure, as if it is impossible that Hillary's failure could ever be the fault of herself and those around her. No, it must be a vast conspiracy of rabid sexism that can only be seen in a few choice quotes from a few big headed pundits. There has never been any evidence or any logical argument put forth to explain how sexism derailed her campaign, or negatively affected her candidacy at all. On the other hand I can point to dozens of huge mistakes, mistakes that were her fault, that contributed to her losing the election, and she deserved to lose for making many of them. She ran a nasty and divisive campaign, and she ran against a superior candidate with a superior message, and she lost. Grow up and realize that it had nothing to do with sexism. Obama fought against much harder odds to come out on top of this, and he didn't stoop to the level of Republicans to do it. I don't expect Hillary to be able to accept the blame for her own mistakes, that isn't her M.O., but there is no reason her supporters should be in denial too, it isn't your burden, it isn't your pride.

I can't wait for the day we can have the first woman president, and the vast majority of Americans will be excited, they just don't want Hillary to be that person, not because of her gender, but because of who she is. I'm sorry if most of her supporters can't see it, but there are very real and very legitimate reasons to not want her to be president, and NONE of those reasons are related to sexism or gender.

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Hillary's a woman???
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Posted by: Reader11722 on May 16, 2008 10:29 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hillary may be a woman but she's no lady. If Obama lost, the writer of this article would complain about racism. Hillary, Obama, McCain, it does not matter. Unfortunately it took segregationist Governor Wallace to reveal the truth that "there's not a dime's worth of difference between" Republicans and Democrats. The Democrats willingly went along with the War in Iraq, suspension of Habeas Corpus, detaining protesters, banning books like America Deceived (book) from Amazon, stealing private lands (Kelo decision), warrant-less wiretapping and refusing to investigate 9/11 properly. They are both guilty of treason.
Support Dr. Ron Paul and save this great nation.

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Methinks she doth protest too much...
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Posted by: DuChamp Fitz on May 17, 2008 9:31 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hmm. You won't miss all that, but you want to bring it all up one last time first, eh?

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» RE: Funny, you don't LOOK crazy Posted by: westomoon

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I don't think Randi Rhodes's comments qualify
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Posted by: Beastly on May 17, 2008 10:06 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
as sexism. I call male senators whores all the time. Whores, as in prostitutes, willing to do anything for money. In fact nearly all American senators are fucking whores.

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» True that Posted by: radiomorning
» RE: True that Posted by: lenioui
» RE: True that Posted by: radiomorning
» RE: True that Posted by: lenioui

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Hillary is the new Nixon, that is all.
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Posted by: MisterWu on May 18, 2008 12:21 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would wecome a female president who is not just running to just put herself in the Whitehouse by hook or by crook.

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Misdirection
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Posted by: fem4826 on May 18, 2008 1:59 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not sure whether many of the commenters here either did not read the article, or are purposefully confusing the message to misdirect our attention.

Nothing in it says "shame on you for not supporting Clinton." Rather, it says that the sexism displayed during this campaign season by a large portion of the media (and a large portion of the public) offensive and discrediting to both women and the entire notion of equality. And shame, SHAME on the American people for being silent as it festered and polluted our "democratic" waters. It removed focus from Clinton's policies and goals and onto her personal being.

Productive democratic process is focusing on:
- current stance on national and foreign policy, security, human rights and quality of life, etc
- previous experience in law, politics, and activism and how it affects her candidacy

Misogyny is:
- using sexualized language or gender stereotypes to make personal attacks
- using sexualized language or gender stereotypes to question legitimacy or capability
- using any of the above to detract attention or avoid addressing any real issues
- ultimately: treating her any differently than the other candidates

If you do this, you're engaging in misogyny. Even if you have legitimate reasons for not voting for or supporting Clinton that involve her policies or political history: engaging in these practices is misogyny.

And those of you who are/were truly oblivious to this phenomenon need to consider why. This isn't about one candidate or one woman, but the treatment any woman receives when she dares to be unpopular in the patriarchal public eye. It's about why our culture so ingrained with such sexism - such viral hate for women and femininity - that we don't even notice it.

And why are we, as citizens, supporting this? Why is this particular flavor of oppression tolerated? We should be protesting and boycotting and being outraged!

I know I am.

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» RE: Misdirection Posted by: Ahimsa
» RE: Misdirection Posted by: fem4826
» RE: Misdirection Posted by: Walks-in-Storms

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I agree with the author -- misogyny is alive and well in America
[Report this comment]
Posted by: janvdb on May 18, 2008 10:37 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And this is why I have opposed Hillary's campaign from the beginning. I judged months ago that she could not win. One, she's a woman. Two, Clinton baggage.

She was doomed from the start. I'm amazed she did as well as she did and that's a testament both to the Clinton machine and to her own tenacity, hard work, intelligence and moxie.

However, it is just a simple fact that this country remains too misogynist to elect a woman president. Hatred of powerful women, independent women, rich women, women without children, women who don't toe the line and conform to the stereotypes of what women are supposed to be -- it's alive and well.

Believe me, I've lived it myself. I'm a self-made, wealthy woman who has never wanted children myself and the vilification, the hatred, the unfair treatment which has been launched against me all my life is simply shocking. It takes a while to accept the truth that this is what our society is really like, but I've seen it myself.

I think Bill was wrong to push Hillary into this hellish process and Hillary was wrong to put herself through it, though it probably is good for womenkind, net net. To expose how much hatred there still is for us, I guess is a good thing.

I really feel for Hillary and I wish she had never tried this crazy run. It's hard to acknowledge that women still have so far to go and that they still encounter as much hatred, unfair treatment, derision, and nasty, sexist abuse as they continue to do in our society -- but there it is, as plain as the nose on your face.

We have a long way to go, baby.

Jan VanDenBerg

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Do I Live on the Moon?
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Posted by: westomoon on May 19, 2008 12:00 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First, I do know that misogyny is alive and well in America, as is racism, and that they have both been making quite a comeback of recent years -- probably with help from the RW message machine that has done so well out of Balkanizing us in every way imaginable.

Second, I know that I avoid media I know will enrage me, like Fox, out of respect for my cardiovascular health. And I don't shop for "novelties", so I have no idea what's for sale in airport gift shops.

But I feel like I must be living on the moon -- everything in this article was a complete surprise to me. Has anyone here actually seen the tee-shirts this article described? Or the nutcrackers? Did anyone personally hear the "whore" comment? Was it aimed at political behavior (I've been calling McCain a whore ever since he embraced Bush at the 04 R Convention), or was it the classic "slut" comment the author takes it to be?

I mean, I've heard sexist and racist remarks from the Neanderthals who always take the low road, like Pat Buchanan, and I've heard what the candidates have said about each other -- and to my [old-school-feminist] ear, there has been no stream of misogyny from the Obama camp. But all this nasty stuff the author cites as arising from the larger culture -- is it true?

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» RE: Do I Live on the Moon? Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: Do I Live on the Moon? Posted by: fem4826
» RE: Do I Live on the Moon? Posted by: Walks-in-Storms

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It's not you who lives on the moon
[Report this comment]
Posted by: dkm on May 25, 2008 5:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While reading the article, I also wondered where the author managed to dig up all the antifemale examples she came up with. I haven't seen a thing yet outside this article that could be characterized as the equivalent of the racial slurs that have been thrown at Obama, even some by the Clinton team.

Contrasting this article with the interview with Patrick Buchanan earlier on the page, I have to say that Buchanan and the author are not too different. Buchanan says that Obama is where he is only because he has African ancestry. This author says that Clinton is where she is only because so many people hate women. Both of them need a reality check.

Another post defined misogyny in much the same way that AIPAC defines antiSemite. Neither of them actually touch on the matter, which is a virulent hatred, not merely a mild distaste for, based solely on a personal characteristic that is irrelevant to any discussion about a person's abilities and attitudes.

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In my opinion, racism is STILL more prevalent in the U.S....
[Report this comment]
Posted by: olderworker on May 26, 2008 1:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
..than misogyny. I'm definitely not saying that misogyny isn't problematic, just saying that, as a Caucasian American, I hear a LOT of anti-black (or African-American) statements from people who wouldn't voice these things in public. Recent immigrants from Russia, Ireland, Israel and other countries often ask me "why are black people so rude?" and U.S. born white people often make remarks about black people having "gotten ahead unfairly" or other such crap.
My point is that it is my opinion that, underneath it all, there is more anti-African-American bias than anti-female bias, in U.S. society today.

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