These are the ASSHOLES who constantly talk about Limited Government EXCEPT of course when it comes to your SEX life . Just as they were for States Rights until the Florida Supreme Court wanted to (GASP) count the votes in the 2000 Presidential Election THEN it was OK to
go to the Supreme Court to STOP the counting and select Dubya to be the Resident . And just for good measure the Supremes decided that this decision should be a ONE TIMER and did NOT establisha precedent . I guess they were worried some later court with those Judicial Activists might be able to appoint the wrong kind of President .

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...but your article seemed to shy away from saying what it was really getting at (so allow me). There is a word I know that describes the insertion of an object into a woman's vagina without her consent. That word is RAPE. This law effectively leaves women seeking an abortion subject first to rape by the state. That is disgusting.

The UK has a much better track record although we are watching on-going attempts to erode women's reproductive rights. The next is a potential amendment to the Human Cloning and Embryology Bill.

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Really? I thought that the selling-point of ultrasounds is that they're NOT invasive.

As for this being against the women's will, is it too burdensome to require a woman to sign one or two forms before the abortion? I mean, she might not WANT to sign the forms. Isn't requiring her signature forcing her to do something against her will?

Oh, and she might be required to lie-down during the procedure. Maybe she doesn't WANT to lie-down? Isn't requiring her to lie-down forcing her to do something against her will?

Golly, it's almost as if it's a BS-filled argument we're being handed.

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What a horrible law. Sounds like Okie-homa!

What next? The ultra sound pictures will be edited together with lullaby music and you have to watch it 100 times with your mother and mother-in-law both in the room. Then you have to unravel homemade baby booties with your teeth while a group of elderly nuns poke you with their knitting needles. Then, you must throw a baby blankie into a lit fireplace to remind you that the burning embers of hell have your name held in reservation.

THEN you can have that abortion you slut.

Now who could object to this little routine?


VideoProductionTips = Learn Internet Video

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Here is a tip that is going to get you very far in life: Read the article in question. Then comment.

If you do that here, you will see that your argument about ultrasounds not being invasive was dealt with in the piece. There are multiple kinds of ultrasounds. One kind -- which is often used early in pregnancy -- involves a woman's vagina being penetrated with a large instrument. It is unpleasant and often painful, and it is quite invasive.

Really: Read first. It helps.

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What difference would it make even if it weren't invasive? It's the "being forced" part that's the most insulting, then of course there's the inevitable delay...

... and given the amount of empathy these jerks have, we can be sure that the free clinic they recommend happens to be halfway across the state...

... by which time the only procedure still available is the "dismemberment abortion." I think that's what's called a "self fullfilling prophecy" (FWIW: I did a search for "dismemberment abortion". It got a lot of hits, but not a single one of them from an actual medical site.)

they want women ill-informed, confused, and frightened ... to know about post-abortion trauma

Wait a minute, isn't that the function of the 'pregnancy counseling' centers that are merely fronts for the "Pro Lifers"? Specifically so that they can induce "Post Abortion Trauma" by telling an already upset woman that she "killed her baby"?

And with all that money and political power at stake, they need to keep the abortions rolling.

Money? Have you ever actually *seen* the types of clinics that are available for women seeking an abortion? Run down little storefronts in the cheaper part of town, not a single BMW sporting medical plates to be seen. Nah, it's not money that they're defending - as for political power, the GOP has been making book on this issue for the last 35 years. Or maybe that's the money you were talking about?

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Someone need to tell the Oklahoma Legislature a few things. The purpose of forcing women to undergo ultrasound before having an abortion is to prevent them from having said abortion. In other words, guilt them into staying pregnant by forcing them to see a 2- or 3-D image of their fetus in utero.

But they miss one very important point. It is dangerous to the fetus, and has shown to be dangerous to women, as well. Studies have shown that fetuses who undergo ultrasounds suffer from several neurodevelopmental problems, such as: epilepsy, dyslexia, schizophrenia, autism, developmental delays, and delayed speech. (Just to name a few)

The American College of Obstetrics and Gynocology, American Academy of Family Physicians, the American Medical Association, and the FDA all caution against routine ultrasound.

So, since they only seem to care for the "unborn" they need to look at the data that says it could be very harmful, with life-long effects.

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You really should read the stories and the other posts before you start typing. They are talking about vaginal ultrasounds. That means they insert the monitor into the vagina. (I know you hate that word, but try to follow along) That, by definition, is INVASIVE.

A first trimester fetus is not a formed baby. At least get your facts straight.

You appear to enjoy describing what you believe is the abortion process... I think you're sick.

Aborted fetuses don't end up in a landfill, you twisted liar. You are unbelievable.

And when YOU are able to go through a pregnancy or an abortion or a birth, perhaps you will have the necessary experience to determine what a woman should do if she needs to make that decision about whether or not to have an abortion. Until then, you need to shut up with your irrational ranting and bullshit lies.

You are truly a Pig of the First Order.

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I'd start with the fact that an early abortion is far safer than a live birth. That would be a good beginning. I wonder why they don't already give that warning? I wonder what you're all really afraid of? Maybe that if anyone researched it, they'd find that women are no more traumatized by abortion than by birth?

No, they want women to face a full-term pregnancy ill-informed, confused, frightened, and guilt-ridden, because the entire right-to-life lobby wants, for some odd reason, control of women's sex lives. The Bible Belt has a higher abortion rate than the rest of the country, Catholics have more abortions than non-Catholics, and they have plenty of money and political power, and it's all at stake, I suppose. Imagine what would happen if abortion WERE made illegal. No more single-issue voters like half my family voting Republican to "outlaw" abortion. 7 + years of Bush, most of that with a Republican congress, and abortion is still legal? Makes you wonder what LOTS of people are afraid of.

Me, I'm afraid that people want to control my womb and my most personal choices. I'll remain true to the pro-choice cause.

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And it hurt. And I was very uncomfortable. It felt like being shocked inside. And yes, there was a person between my legs, with his hand holding a long wand stuck up my vagina, moving it in and out while pushing on my stomach.

If you have never had one like that, you can't talk about it.

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You are not presenting the other side. You want all these mothers to be forced to have babies that they may not be able to care for, have you not seen all the abused children, the hungry and sick children, and have you not heard about the need for population control, because of food and water shortage. These people who have 16 children are either clueless or comletely selfish. We must limit our growth all over the world. Go and buy or rent the movie "Solyent Green"

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Um, anyone with a computer can see what fetal development looks like. At 7 weeks when most women have abortions it looks like nothing, especially in an ultrasound. I don't think you're going to stop the vast amount of abortions here.

However, you will be messing with the minds of the poor women who have to have medically necessary abortions in the later terms. Good for you for making a woman who actually wanted her baby, but has to abort or she'll die, feel even worse. You're a real heroe.

Post-abortion trauma, and the rest of the fear mongering you claim happens when women have abortions, is BS. I've had an abortion and many of my friends have had abortions. I feel just fine and several of my friends now have children. It doesn't destroy you or ruin your life. If there is any trauma it's the fear that while you're at the abortion clinic some crazy person like yourself will show up and bomb the place.

Besides all that, this law is a serious intrusion into the doctor/patient relationship. I don't know about you, but I don't want the government telling me I need unnecessary medical procedures due to their offensive moralizing.

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How would you protect this supposed inalienable right for embryos and fetuses without squashing the rights of women? What you're saying is that all women once pregnant should be forced to carry those babies to term.

I know this sounds absurd, but if this inalienable right of all embryos to exist and be brought to term exists, then this is what you are basically suggesting...

1. How do we know when women are pregnant? Are all women going to have to check in with the government on a monthly basis to get a pregnancy test?

2. Once we discover a woman is pregnant the government tells her what she is and isnt' allowed to do, such as: what food she can eat, what jobs she can perform, what medical procedures she needs.

3. Any woman who doesn't want her child is forced to bring the pregnancy to term and give it up for adoption, most likely to live an orphanage, or passed around in foster care, until it is an adult.

4. Any woman who has a medically harmful pregnancy is forced to carry the baby to term, possibly ending in her death, her and the baby's death, the baby's death, and/or the baby being born deformed.

5. Any woman who has been impregnanted through rape or incest is forced to carry the baby to term, whether or not she can mentally handle it.

6. Any woman who tries to get out of this situation, or any doctor who tries to help her, is put in jail and possibly even faces the death penalty.

7. And all along, remember the government is watching her every move, because she's carrying another human being with full human rights. Even if she wants the child, she has to submit to the government intrustion into her most intimate, personal experience.

Is this what you think the fathers of our constitution intended? You don't find that this limits the freedom of women? Or does that not matter to you? Would it be ok to freeze all unwanted embryos until someone wants them?

What you're basically saying is that all embryos must be protected so they can be born. That sounds preposturous to me and it certainly doesn't sound like freedom.

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For all of you morons who are apparently too illiterate to read the article or just too stupid to understand the terminology, vaginal ultrasound involves sticking a rather large probe into the vagina to get an image through the cervix of the reproductive organs. I had this done for ovarian cysts and it is most certainly very invasive. I can't imagine how horrifying it would be for a rape or incest victim. Unfortunately this is the best way to get an image during the first trimester when the vast majority of abortions are done. Abdominal ultrasound is generally not considered useful until the second and third trimesters. Inserting an object into a woman/girl's vagina against her consent is rape by object. And now mandated by the state of Oklahoma.

Quote from the article for those who didn't bother to read it: "The law states that either an abdominal or vaginal ultrasound, whichever gives the best image of the fetus, must be done. Neither the patient nor the doctor can decide which type of ultrasound to use, and the patient cannot opt out of the ultrasound and still have the procedure. In effect, then, the legislature has mandated that a woman have an instrument placed in her vagina for no medical benefit. The law makes no exception for victims of rape and incest."

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The first woman who is forced to have a vaginal ultrasound against her will needs to file a lawsuit against the state of Oklahoma for infringing upon her fundamental right to privacy.

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I'm getting pretty sick of the misogyny and racism of the Bible Belt, and the attempts to push us back to the 18th century.

JSquercia above mentioned the control freaks who want limited gov't -- this is because they want to maintain their own power, continuing to have plenty of freedom; and make sure that women (esp. poor women) continue to have none.

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This law is not a far remove from those of some Central American countries, I believe Nicaragua and El Salvador. There, if a doctor even suspects that a patient of his has had an abortion, he is required to report her to the government. The government then sends a forensic specialist with a search warrant (really, a search warrant) to examine her and if he determines she has, indeed, had an abortion she is charged and brought to trial. On the forensic specialist's testimony only she can go to prison for 10 or 15 years. No matter if she has seven children at home.

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The Right has to throw their conned "values voters" some scraps every few years (which invariably co-inside with election cycles).

The cronies on the Supreme Court know that it would be a disaster to overturn Roe. v. Wade....They are on the court to do the bidding of those who put them there...To keep up the illusion of progress...every once in a while the Right will hand the "values" voters peripheral "victories" while keeping widespread access to abortion legal.

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I think all politicians who are electred into office ought to have a colonoscopy before they take their oath. Get rid of all the sh** beforehand. That ought to work, don't ya think? How dare any branch of government pass a worthless, self-indulging law like this. Are we going backwards in time or what? We have got to start voting these self-righteous idiots out of office even if we have new representatives all the time. It's the only way we can send them a loud and clear message. We must separate religion and politics and we need to get special interest out of government. We need to send a message to this these idiots and stop electing them into office.

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So, the great "Land of the Free" is definitely turning into an interesting combination of plutocracy and theocracy. I like your country, and I find an average American remarkably kind and hospitable, but I will limit my visits to absolute minimum.

Granted, situation was even worse in 40's and 50's, but while virtually all of the rest of the world is moving towards more freedom, more democracy and better respect for human rights, USA is regressing.

On the brighter note, it is nice to see that AlterNet is not exclusively preaching to the choir: judging by the comments, your readership includes quite a number of ultra-right and other kinds of nutcases. Vive la différence!

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This is why I no Longer listen to the lies of such antiquated, BS organizations like NOW.And am pissed everytime I hear Hillary claim she has Done anything for women in the last 35 yrs.We still only make $0.77 to a man's $1.00. Roe v Wade has been Raped!Our daughters generation has 1 in 4 suffering from a STD, 'Honor killings' have reached our country in the form of "Cheaper to Kill her than to Divorce her' mentality. then to look at How little has been done to improve the lives of our children.
All Rhetoric No Action- So instead of re upping a memebership to that self promoting 'Orgnaization' I support Planned Parenthood with my action and money ( when I can afford it). And I will NOT Support Hillary- not just for these reasons , but becasue she has proven her allegeince to the Cheney Doctrine- her Actions and INACTIONS while in the Senate and More Directly on the Armed Services Com (con)- She should be run OUT of the Dem Party, the Senate and be facing Dereliciton of Duty Charges - if not Prosecuted along with the Corp Operatives like Cheney, Bush,Rummy, Wolfie, Rice.. for Treason ,War Crimes and Crimes against Humantiy! She's No Dem norr even a Real republican- she's a corporationist who is obviously NOT an AMERICAN, by their own doctrine and mission

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if you have to endure rape by the state via probe, is it also part of the law that you VIEW AND COMMENT on the results of the ultrasound? if the state requires it, then bring your ipod or something and also turn your head and say you do not want to see what you are being forced to endure... refuse to view the ultrasound... until this idiotic portion of the law is over ruled by some federal court...

the more important issue is what happens after the forced birth... does OK have a no questions asked law for turning over a newborn to state custody without retaliation like many states do? or, are you physically forced to take the newborn home with you? deliver, refuse to sign birth paperwork and leave the hospital empty armed by choice...

they may force you to carry a pregnancy to term, but they can't force you to raise it if you know the law... relinquish all parental rights and let the state then deal with raising this unwanted child...

what will happen is a return to the bad old days of the underground abortion business, which I bet is shaping up again in many of these restrictive states...
gee, then the state will have to pay for the life of the child due to it's idiotic laws...

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I have lived in the State of Oklahoma all of my life.

Yes, I do think the constitutionality of the required ultrasound law will be tested, and perhaps the law will even be overturned, but the extreme "right" will continue to introduce new legislation in Oklahoma and elsewhere on a regular basis to chip away women's rights, not only regarding abortion, but in the workplace and everywhere else.

As for "voting these self-righteous idiots out of office," you are dreaming. They are what the majority of the Oklahoma voters want or they would not be in office in the first place. New candidates will come from the same cultural background and will hold the same values and be supported by the same voters.

I fear for Roe v. Wade. I do not believe the "right" needs to "keep up the illusion of progress." I think they have enough power and control that illusion is no longer required.

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Studies were done in Scandanavia, England, and right here in the USA that indicated that ultrasound may prove detrimental to the developing fetus. I forgot exactly what it was, I think it had to do with certain mental functions. Fetuses who had undergone this ultrasound crapola were most likely to have this mental impairment.

I would strongly advise avoiding ultrasound. And most of all, AVOID OKLAHOMA!!!

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are you willing to put your beliefs where your keyboard is??? you and YOUR family personally adopting all these kids who are unwanted is the only other option...

can we please have reliable birth control for all...

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You know you are in Inhofe land when even the women wear overalls, everybody drives a pickup and thinks Jesus is a Republican.

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I doubt the ultrasound's free.

jdfu!

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If men got pregnant instead of women, Oklahoma would have free abortion clinics on every street corner.

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Some of us are old enough to remember when abortion was illegal. It wasn't pretty. Women and girls died or were rendered sterile. There always have been and there always will be abortions. If you don't think the day will come when your sister, daughter, granddaughter and/or a good friend may want an abortion, you are lying to yourself. The hypocritical and scared have abortions and call them miscarriages.

When men want to control women's bodies, what makes them any different than the Taliban? I say men must stop masturbating and stop using contraception. They are killing half-babies with every ejaculation. Lock those men up. Inspect their body parts. Pass laws against ejaculation outside marriage. See how they like it. Someone needs to invent a chastity belt for men, like a plug or a lock, because they are incapable of respecting their potential for reproducing.

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So true about men wanting to control what womeon do with their own bodies. They would mostly prefer the women would just abort. The biggest supporter of abortion is the Playboy Foundation, contributing many millions to Planned Parenthood.

This way they can play and don't have to pay. If the woman gets pregnant, just throw her a couple hundred and tell her to go get rid of it. But who has to bear the guilt from the murder, the empty feeling of knowing they have murdered their own child and violated their most basic maternal and human instincts? The woman.

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Sometmes I read something that simply takes my breath away. As a former clinic director I think I can comment on the insanity of the antis and requiring an ultrasound. Yes, sometimes the doctor/nurse practitioner will indicate that one is necessary before the procedure. The purpose of forcing an unnecessary procedure is simply to place another road block and fiscal concern in the path of the patient. I think it is time to set up a clearing house for women confronted with this intrusion along with the legislative members supporting such a law and sue the bastards. And such an action may be taken without patient involvement if it is a state law and thus not violate patient privacy. There must be a special place in hell for these evil and unthinking people.

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I doubt the person calling themself a former clinic director really is. Abortionists are notorious liars. They have to because if they told the truth they would be out of business.

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Oklahoma Lawmakers want to see inside your uterus. Even THAT is no longer private! They want to provide women with visual evidence that they are pregnant. Otherwise women wouldn't know what they were doing. Thank you so much gentlemen. Do we get to see where that seed came from?

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It's pretty standard to perform an ultrasound, usually vaginal, before a surgical or medical abortion. Prices are usually based on size of embryo/ fetus (# of weeks); you can be sure most clinics want some empirical data beyond LMP to assess correct charges (but also so the physician knows what procedure to use). In fact, if I went into a clinic to have an abortion and I DIDN'T have an ultrasound, I'd be asking questions.

This is a situation where OK legislature wants to drum up anti-abortion sentiment, lip-serve a conservative constituency, and create legal precedent to interfere with abortion, so they can chip away at reproductive freedom one stupid rule at a time.

The problem is not TAKING the ultrasound, which can be a sort-of invasive but FAR LESS so than the (surgical) abortion, but forcing women to LOOK AT IT. The women of Oklahoma, who have already gone through so much to get into the door of their few & far between abortion providers, shouldn't have to have their experience mediated even further by the state.

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"Cab : 'Abortionist lie, " etc:
What is an abortionist? You mean a licensed clinician or practitioner? Did that person you call "abortionist" lie to you? What were the lies that the person told.

Give us some incidents or examples or else I'll request deleting your posts.

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Sounds like fun. We need more of them.

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Is this a job for ACLU?

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It is time the ACLU to get involved in something more ethical than defending pornographer s rights to free speech over woman s safety. Now is the time for them to come to the aid of woman.

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Why are nasty, stupid, ignorant men afraid of women?

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This is an ultrasound of a fetus at 7 weeks. Why do the fundies think this is going to change women's minds? Not only is this unnecessary and demeaning to women who want an abortion, but I don't think it's going to have the effect they hope it will.

This site won't let me post the link because it's more than 60 characters. Just put it together if you want to see the picture.

http://pregnancy.about.com/od/fetus/ig/First-

Trimester-US-Gallery/7-Week-Ultrasound.htm

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How would you protect this supposed inalienable right for embryos and fetuses without squashing the rights of women? What you're saying is that all women once pregnant should be forced to carry those babies to term.

I know this sounds absurd, but if this inalienable right of all embryos to exist and be brought to term exists, then this is what you are basically suggesting...

1. How do we know when women are pregnant? Are all women going to have to check in with the government on a monthly basis to get a pregnancy test?

2. Once we discover a woman is pregnant the government tells her what she is and isnt' allowed to do, such as: what food she can eat, what jobs she can perform, what medical procedures she needs.

3. Any woman who doesn't want her child is forced to bring the pregnancy to term and give it up for adoption, most likely to live an orphanage, or passed around in foster care, until it is an adult.

4. Any woman who has a medically harmful pregnancy is forced to carry the baby to term, possibly ending in her death, her and the baby's death, the baby's death, and/or the baby being born deformed.

5. Any woman who has been impregnanted through rape or incest is forced to carry the baby to term, whether or not she can mentally handle it.

6. Any woman who tries to get out of this situation, or any doctor who tries to help her, is put in jail and possibly even faces the death penalty.

7. And all along, remember the government is watching her every move, because she's carrying another human being with full human rights. Even if she wants the child, she has to submit to the government intrustion into her most intimate, personal experience.

Is this what you think the fathers of our constitution intended? You don't find that this limits the freedom of women? Or does that not matter to you? Would it be ok to freeze all unwanted embryos until someone wants them?

What you're basically saying is that all embryos must be protected so they can be born. That sounds preposturous to me and it certainly doesn't sound like freedom.

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It's funny how we sometimes get this weird Alternet article synchronicity. Seems to me the solution here is to outlaw ALL abortion and let the US Army adopt newborn children for use in the Future Warrior Program. These "born warriors" will not have birth-dates, they'll have "Incept Dates". Each Future Warrior will be genetically altered for a 4-year lifespan. If genetic alternation proves to be unworkable, they could simply be "retired" (terminated) after they have passed peak performance. They will be trained from birth as a new warrior class, removing the necessity for military draft. Think of all the families who's children's lives would be spared by this system.

dboy

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and many of the democrats are so far right that they can't be seen to be different from the repubs. The state government does this because the right wing churches tell their congregations how to vote. I, personally, heard an Oklahoma preacher stand in the pulpit and pray for the election of George Bush.

When you suggest that a church might lose it tax exempt status, they tell you that no republican will prosecute.

We actually have courts in the State of Oklahoma where you will have been arrested by a policeman that is a member of the KKK. You will face a group of witnesses that were called in to witness what you did after the fact. They are KKK. You will face a KKK prosecutor and a KKK judge.

A local 6 o'clock news story interviewed a member of a militia that told the reporter that the KKK members in the militia were just good law abiding citizens like you and I. They were just a little above average as patriots.

The story here is of "dog whistle" politics. When George Bush announced that all of the arms of the federal government would concentrate on terrorism, the KKK sat still for a moment. When the undercover FBI agent didn't show up for any meetings, they knew that they had been turned loose. The KKK doesn't hang or drag to death any more, they jail. There aren't any kangaroos in a kangaroo court, they are primarily KKK.

We now know for sure that Timothy McVeigh was 'militia'. He is gone so we probably won't know anything more. Black people in Oklahoma tell white people, "Don't try to help us." They mean it. The KKK attack the friendly whites. They know that the government will protect the blacks some. But by isolating the blacks away from white friends the black cause is greatly weakened. The radical right nuts also prey on the gay community. They try to get all of the gays put on the sex offender list. They have been amazingly successful.

There are defense attorneys that will attest to this. They cannot protect their clients.

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On the situation in Okhlahoma: It appears that
the state or some of its towns have been targets for concentration. The Republicans or factions thereof encourage people with some cash to move to the target and bring in the reptiles.

Two examples:1: This was attempted on a smaller scale in our town,. Strangers were getting up in meetings and calling for amendments to bar legislating any tax increase without a public referendum ballot. In the 2000 election poll watchers used to a setting where it is usually quiet were overwhelmed. A candidate who was known as "nut case" ran and was elected on a number of absurdities that I now can't
remember. But I happened to be in the State House when I saw and heard him making a spectacle of himself.

2: A group that had "decided" New Hampshire
was the best place to move there to "colonize" towns and show them how to run government.

A similar thing may have happened in South Dakota before the recent attempts to completely outlaw all abortion in that state.

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How dare any arsehole of a politician legislate the need for any medical procedure? Have they all by some divine power been granted medical degrees?
I am against abortion but accept the fact that in many cases it is the only possible solution. I also know that if men - I am one - ever got pregnant, abortion would be one of the holy sacraments. This is a clear case where the medical
community should be up in arms, it is unwarranted interference in the doctor/patient relationship, it is not necessary, it may cause more psychological damage that even abortion. It should be made clear to these idiots that having legislated this farce, they should bear the financial burden.

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I suggest that anyone sponsoring or voting for this legislation must undergo an MRI. Massive Rectal Insertion .

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I anticipate come petrocollapse that the entire midwest will lock down and become a Xtian fundie gulag. I can't imagine the shit their sick sadistic cult will inspire...

In the meantime, it is important to loudly and publicly SHAME these white male fundamentalist assholes for their perverse "laws" and never travel through their territory for any reason.

To think for the past 20 years progressives have insisted on tolerance of the proto-fascists. Not such a good idea now, huh?

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The weirdness here is that we allow these idiots on the right to suggest that progressives like abortion. (Really! When one of your friends tells you she's pregnant, is your first reaction, "Great! Now you can go get an abortion!"?)

If you really want to reduce the number of abortions, you need to back real sex education programs and family planning services. Those who are in favor of women's rights ought to want it, because abortion, although safer than giving birth, is still a medical procedure. Best is to try to do whatever is necessary to assist women to avoid being in the situation of having to consider abortion in the first place. (Yes, there will be human error, and no methos of contraception is 100% effective - but that doesn't negate the need to try.)

Whether you are anti-abortion or pro-women's rights, the focus ought to be on making certain that all women have the knowledge and means to prevent unwanted pregnancies.

Any anti-abortionist that is also against sex education and family planning services is a proven hypocrite.

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i thought you had to get an ultrasound before an abortion so the doctor could see how far along you are and exactly where the sac is in the uterus?

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