COMMENTS: 100
47,000 Women Could Die As a Result of the New Mammogram Guidelines
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Cost-benefit analysis can kill. The failure to distinguish statistics from arithmetic can kill. In the current debate over mammograms, the number of women projected to be at risk of death due to cost-benefit analysis is about 47,000.
That is the approximate number projected to die by the United States Preventive Services Task Force (USPSTF), if its recommendations on scaling back mammograms had been accepted. It is the task force's number, if you do the arithmetic, which it apparently did not.
USPSTF statistics say that the life of “only” one woman in 1,900 will be saved if mammograms start at age 40 instead of age 50. In other words, a 40-year-old woman’s “risk” of dying from breast cancer in the next 10 years is only 1 in 1,900. That seems like no risk at all. 1 divided by 1,900 equals .000526. About half a woman per 1,000. Minuscule, right?
Now, how many women in America would be affected?
The most recent (July 2008) census figures say there are about 304,000,000 Americans, of which 50.7 percent are female. That’s about 154,000,000 females. Roughly 80,000,000 of them are under 40 and about another 20,000,000 between 40 and 50. Of the 80,000,000 under 40, each one, under the proposed guidelines, would not get a mammogram until age 50. If “only” 1 in 1,900 die as a result, that would be .000526 times 80,000,000, which equals about 42,000.
In short, moving the mammogram age from 40 to 50 would result in the deaths of 42,000 women now 40 or under, according to the statistics of the Preventive Services Task Force. Of the 20,000,000 between 40 and 50, it could mean the deaths of as many as 10,500 women, though the figure may be somewhat lower because half are more than halfway through the critical period. There might be as few as half, say, 5,000 deaths. Adding 42,000 and 5,000, we get a ballpark figure of 47,000 of currently living American females who would die needlessly under the proposed task force restriction on mammograms. Of course, as more are born, the absolute numbers would go up.
What is at issue is called “framing.” The Preventive Services Task Force chose the probability of risk frame: only 1 in 1,900. But the arithmetic frame reveals the more important truth.
Framing, in this case as in so many others, is a matter of life and death. Take the framing in the New York Times (Nov. 18, 2009) in the front-page news analysis by Kevin Sack and in the op-ed by Robert Aronowitz. Sack frames the mammogram debate as the “science of medicine” versus “medical consumerism.” Aronowitz calls it “wishful thinking” that early mammograms could help, and speaks of “the very small numbers of lives potentially saved.”
You can see why cost-benefit analysis can kill. Its use isn’t science. Real scientists do arithmetic as well as statistics. Medical science is about real people, not percentages or statistics, especially when large numbers of real people are involved and small differences in risk can produce large numbers of deaths.
The Preventive Services Task Force also uses the “harm” frame. The task force observes that more mammograms mean more false positives and claims that false positives do “harm.” But no science is presented showing that the harm done is greater than the deaths of 47,000 women.
What is the "harm"? Anxiety and unnecessary biopsies from false positives are listed as the harms. My wife had such a false positive. The anxiety came for economic reasons: she had to wait for a biopsy because no one who could perform one was present when the mammogram was done, due to economic restrictions. The biopsy when it came was simple: a needle inserted to withdraw fluid, like taking a blood sample. No harm. If the biopsy had been done immediately, there would have been no need for anxiety. But the task force does not recommend immediate biopsies as a way to eliminate such “harm.”
Aronowitz also claims the figures show that mammograms haven’t helped prevent breast cancer. He observes that the rate of 28 breast cancer deaths per 100,000 people has not changed substantially since the 1950s, despite more mammography and better treatments. But that could mean, and probably does mean, that there has been an increase in breast cancer offset by earlier detection and better treatment, saving tens of thousands of lives, but not affecting the overall rate. But he did not consider the possibility that the occurrence of breast cancer might have increased, while the rate of deaths did not change because of earlier detection due to mammograms.
I suspect that the real harm intended is economic harm – the costs of the “unnecessary” mammograms and biopsies. But the task force gives no figures weighing the economic costs versus the human cost of the deaths of 47,000 women. Now, in cost-benefit analysis, a commonly cited figure for the value of an American life is $6.5 million. Forty-seven thousand times 6.5 million is $305,500,000,000. That is, 305 billion 500 million dollars. Of course, that would be spread over the next 40 years, but it’s not clear that such a cost-benefit analysis would make this less than the cost of mammograms and biopsies, all moral issues and human costs aside. Unfortunately, the Preventive Services Task Force doesn’t do the calculation, so my figures may be off. The exact figures are not the point. The point is to go beyond rates to numbers.
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Posted by: cplot on Nov 25, 2009 1:23 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Another thing right-winger like you like to sweep under the rug is that we somehow do not ration healthcare in America because we leave it to the free market. However, markets are a method of rationing. Markets ration products and services by granting those products and services tot hose willing and able to pay the most for them. So while we can provide all the mammograms these women might want and save all 42,000 of them, we are undoubtedly diverting resources from elsewhere that could result in hundreds of thousands or millions of deaths.
But in your framing to bolster the already wild profits of the medical industrial complex you can't be troubled to consider that wholesale slaughter of human life, can you.
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» Er...Lakoff? Right-winger?
Posted by: PeaceLove
» RE: r...Lakoff? Right-winger? yep, very close to it
Posted by: guns4everyone
» RE: r...Lakoff? Right-winger? yep, very close to it
Posted by: wbblack
» RE: Framing? or a cynical ploy to enrich the medical industrial complex?
Posted by: Lloydmillerus
» RE: Framing? or a cynical ploy to enrich the medical industrial complex?
Posted by: PeaceLove
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Posted by: rafaeltoral on Nov 25, 2009 2:22 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hear wearing pink ribbons is a good way to prevent breast cancer. Or at least that is what it would appear many people think.
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» RE: I wonder how many women get cancer FROM mammograms?
Posted by: kimberlydeann
» RE: Compare that with the rate in the article:
Posted by: oregoncharles
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Nov 25, 2009 4:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Womans healthc issues have also changed as our Role in society has. We are now at high risk for Heart disease. But I hear no one demanding regular echocardiograms. And what about the wave of Pancreatic and Colon cancers?
Heres the thing- Women are not the onlyy ones with Breasts- so should men also get annual mammograms as well?
I've had about 5 experiences with the Tit vice and all came back 'Inconclusive'- So how effective is it, anyway.
Frankly I, personally, would be better served with a yearly chest X ray since I'm a smoker.
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» Echocardiograms don't screen for heart disease.
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: ather Myopic
Posted by: mtnprivy
» RE: Government is rather Myopic
Posted by: McGovern72!
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Posted by: PJAW on Nov 25, 2009 4:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The correct position to take is, they help some and injure others and the choice of whether to undertake them should belong to the individual, using personal family history and statistical studies for guidance. And certainly those who choose to have them should enjoy the comfort of knowing that the procedure is covered by their insurance.
It appears to me that many Americans tend to want to establish procedures and processes that remove the burden of thinking and personal responsibility from their lives. At least that's how they behave, with little thought and no responsibility. When this is blended with an overriding obsession about money, dysfunction ensues. But we have the "best health care in the world", right?
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» only partly personal
Posted by: mgmyers79
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Posted by: heid on Nov 25, 2009 4:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How many will die of breast cancer from mammography radiation? How many will suffer, and even die, from unneeded treatment? How much angst will happen for false positives? How many who would have survived early stage cancer will die from the extremities of modern medical mill cancer treatment?
Doesn't the author realize that one of the most significant factors in reaching the decision not to recommend mammography before age 50 has been studies that indicate many early-stage cancers are cured by the body?
In fact, the single most important issue in all this is the claim that early detection equates to longer survival. When you consider that the survival rates are based on the date of diagnosis, not on the degree of cancer, it becomes obvious that the whole thing is a scam. Comparing only those with early diagnosis against those with late diagnosis, as the medical establishment is doing, produces no meaningful information. It certainly doesn't mean that lives are actually extended, because it doesn't take into account how long those who are never diagnosed will live. There is no evidence showing that mortality is lower with early cancer detection (with the possible exception of a couple of blood and lymph based types).
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» There's definitely evidence showing mortality is lower - perhaps you just don't know about it.
Posted by: mjabele
» I'd direct your attention particularly toward the Swedish studies...
Posted by: mjabele
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Posted by: NowAge on Nov 25, 2009 4:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Lloydmillerus on Nov 25, 2009 4:40 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
YES! The free market rations. . . but we do have a government safety net: medicaid and medicare to soften or eliminate that rationing.
Obamacare will give DEATH PANELS the power to KILL! Give me the alternatives and chances of freedom. NO POWER TO BUREAUCRATS! Their "recommendations" are bad enough!
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» RE: Death Panels?? If so, then Reagan/Bush death panels
Posted by: peterjkraus
» RE: Death Panels?? If so, then Reagan/Bush death panels
Posted by: JSquercia
» Gotta love the GOP
Posted by: cdmsr
» RE: Death Panels!!
Posted by: JSquercia
» safety net: medicaid and medicare
Posted by: wwittman
» RE: Death Panels!!
Posted by: koolwoman
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Posted by: mrbillwilson on Nov 25, 2009 4:45 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: GinaDCG on Nov 25, 2009 4:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whether or not breast (and prostate) screenings are advisable for asymptomatic public with no risk factors has been debated in the health care field for years. Can we just look at this argument on it's own merit without putting on those tin hats that tell us anything and everything that happens these days has something to do with politics?
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» RE: Gina D
Posted by: PJAW
» RE: Obama obsession / Tinfoil hat politics
Posted by: peterjkraus
» I agree. BamBam is certainly a disappointment, and a corporatist pimp
Posted by: moloko velocet
» RE: Gina D
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: chrysalis124812 on Nov 25, 2009 5:35 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Meanwhile poor ( AKA working class) people go without the benefit of even basic health clinics.
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» Great question!
Posted by: mgmyers79
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Posted by: pharmawatcher on Nov 25, 2009 5:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wrong on the guidelines: they didn't call for eliminating all mammograms under 50; they called for discussing the issue with your doctor, and recommended against annual screening for women without other risk factors for breast cancer, which include family history, smoking and obesity.
Wrong on the math: It wouldn't cost $500 million to screen all women under 50 annually; it would cost an extra $2 billion (about half of women are getting screened now, so that's 10 million x $200 per mammogram). But the mammography doesn't save 1 out of 1,900 for each year of screening. Those 1,900 women would have to be screened for 10 years to save that life. So it's a 10-year, $20 billion program in addition to the $20 billion being spent now to save those 47,000 lives (I'm assuming the $2 billion being spent annually now is saving half those lives). That's $40 billion or nearly $1 million per life saved. I wouldn't adopt Great Britain's threshold of $50,000 per life saved for endorsing medical technologies. But it is worth pointing out that their universal health care system has longer life expectancy than ours.
Which gets to the bottom line, which is that Mr. Lakoff is dead wrong on public health. Imagine what you could do with an additional $4 billion spent on cancer prevention. You could offer free smoking cessation programs to the nation's 20 million smokers. You could offer free gym memberships and dietary counseling to the obese. You could spread the word among women that artificial hormone therapy after menopause is a significant cancer risk. This would be some of the components of a real cancer prevention program.
Instead, Alternet contributes to a media frenzy that has made it almost impossible to talk about what works and what doesn't in health care. Here's my read on where Mr. Lakoff's "frame" will take us: Health care costs will continue to skyrocket. Rationing will become inevitable. And when rationing comes, it will be by price and income, not by what works and what doesn't.
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» RE: This is just wrong
Posted by: koolwoman
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Posted by: Prinzowhales on Nov 25, 2009 6:03 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Instead of touting mammography, Sebelius and the clown brigade in Washington should be publicizing the proven benefits of Vitamin D, C, iodine and a properly functioning thyroid, and Omega 3s...The only thing is that there is no real money in these...there is no money for 'health' care providers in good health.
America's 'health' care system is broken from the top, down and needs to be fixed, neutered, sterilized, stomped on and flushed. Remember who approved Vioxx? The same jackasses peddling mammograms.
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» RE: Sebelius, Bovine droppings and mammograms--none of these fight cancer.
Posted by: wolfbite
» RE: Sebelius, Bovine droppings and mammograms--none of these fight cancer.
Posted by: Prinzowhales
» I am glad you trust
Posted by: EncinoM
» Is this run by the quack who had his license yanked...
Posted by: Prinzowhales
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Posted by: rose448 on Nov 25, 2009 7:08 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: women/mammograms
Posted by: raven9
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Posted by: mtnprivy on Nov 25, 2009 7:14 AM
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Posted by: mtnprivy on Nov 25, 2009 7:21 AM
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Posted by: wolfbite on Nov 25, 2009 7:23 AM
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» Mammorgraphy machine makers donate to American Cancer Society
Posted by: plantland
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Posted by: DAnnara on Nov 25, 2009 7:41 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pap smears are looking for cells that MIGHT become cancerous in 10 or 20 years. (Can the same crystal ball come up with winning lottery numbers?)
Mammograms look for tissue changes. Get real. My breasts go through changes every month. They get tender just before every period. I see no reason to panic over normal stuff. What I find to be dangerous is smashing them in a machine and then having needles inserted just to be sure. How dumb is that?
Want to live longer???? Live without fearing your own body. A positive attitude will do wonders.
Those of you monthly making health insurance shareholders richer year after year are free to do so. I'll spend my $ on my family and stay away from the madness.
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Posted by: moloko velocet on Nov 25, 2009 7:52 AM
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Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN on Nov 25, 2009 8:22 AM
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Posted by: McGovern72! on Nov 25, 2009 9:45 AM
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Posted by: harpy on Nov 25, 2009 9:53 AM
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» RE: The US Preventative Services Task Force
Posted by: katinmn
» absolutely right
Posted by: wwittman
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Posted by: katinmn on Nov 25, 2009 10:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agreed with the panel's other points as well. The controversy shows how important screening guidelines are to public health and policy making.
AHRQ is one of the more reputable government agencies. The organization is research-based and their conclusions are based on scientific evidence. Most doctors I know agree with the stats in the recommendations but they reserve the right to advise women on an individual basis based on their own set of risks.
However, the make-up of the panel is of concern. While the panel did not have even one radiation or cancer specialist, it had some members with ties to insurance companies which is a clear conflict of interest. Government entities will only win back trust if they kick the industry folks off these public advisory panels. They have to be cleaner than clean.
Flesh & Stone
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Posted by: CJC on Nov 25, 2009 10:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But he is not a statistician nor a medical scientist with expertise in public health policy.
In any case, to the extent that mammography screening is sometimes useful in detecting tumors that would continue to grow at an early stage so that a woman lives to an older age (not just more years from diagnosis to death) than she would if her cancer were detected later, more would be gained, ie # of deaths prevented, by increasing the proportion of women who get mammography - now less than 60%, I believe - than screening the same group of women more often. This too is arithmetic.
These new guidelines have unleashed a lot of hysteria from women believing that once again we are being dissed by a sexist society to Democrats convinced that it's a kind of right-wing or corporatist effort to save $$ at the expense of lives.
And by the way, a lot of the epidemiologists involved in analyzing the effect of screening programs on public health are both female and generally politically progressive.
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Posted by: maggiemahar on Nov 25, 2009 10:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is what it actually said:
"USPSTF recommends against routine screening mammography in women aged 40 to 49 years. The decision to start regular, biennial screening mammography before the age of 50 years should be an individual one and take patient context into account, including the patient's values regarding specific benefits and harms."
"So, what does this mean if you are a woman in your 40s? You should talk to your doctor and make an informed decision about whether a mammography is right for you based on your family history, general health, and personal values."
Diana Petitti, MD, MPH
Vice Chair, U.S. Preventive Services Task Force
November 19, 2009"
The key word here is ROUTINE.
The Task Force says that women 40-50 should not Automatically have mammograms. They should talk to their doctor, and together, make a decision, taking CONTEXT into account.
Context includes family history. IF your sister and mother both had breast cancer that is going to affect your decision.
Secondly, the "harm" that comes from mammograms is not, as Lakoff speculates, merely "anxiety."
Here is what the largest study that reviews mammogram reserach reveals:
"“For every 2,000 women invited for screening throughout 10 years, one will have her life prolonged. In addition, 10 healthy women who would not have been diagnosed if there had not been screening, will be diagnosed as breast cancer patients and will be treated unnecessarily."
Unncessary treatment includes lumpectomies, mastectomies and radiation.
Often, mammograms detect tiny lesions in healthy women. If undetected, many of these lesions would go away on their own, without every hurting the woman.
Lakoff's post is filled with anecdotes, personal experience and "I suspects . . " No where does he cite medical evidence.
The truth is that if you are ages 40-49, your chances of dying of breast cancer over a 10 year period are .33% if you don't go for annual screening, .28% if you do. (Dr. Steve Woloshin.)
(By the way, mammograms are relatively cheap.
None of this is about the cost of mammogragram.
The Task Force does "Comparative effectiveness" reserach that looks at the effectiveness of treatments, regardless of cost. "Cost effectiveness reserach" is something entirely different.
Finally who is Geroge Lakoff?
He is not a M.D., not a medical reserach, not even a scientist.
He is a linguist who admires the way conservatives "frame issues" to persuade -- much the way advertisers use words to mislead.
Reading Lakoff's post, I am reminded of this statement by Dr. Adriane Fugh-Berman MD of Georgetown University Medical Center, and director of PharmedOut.org and Alicia M. Bell, project manager of PharmedOut and member of the board of directors of the National Women's Health Network,, talking about much of the criticism of the Task Force's statement:
"Vague, fact-free, emotionally charged statements are the language of public relations, not scientific discourse."
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» RE: This Post Is Filled With Misinformation
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Largest study
Posted by: maggiemahar
» RE: This Post Is Filled With Misinformation
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: This Post Is Filled With Misinformation
Posted by: jcfried
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Posted by: gnat on Nov 25, 2009 11:44 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Relax wingers - only kidding (sort of).
However, if simply changing mammograms to bi-annual instead of annual checks on 40 to 50 year old ladies would save 4% of our overall annual medical cost (say $100 billion annually) will some future Gov Health Panel and numbers crunchers decide that *might* be worth the trade off of an extra few thousand middle age ladies dying from breast cancer?
Hmmmmm.
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Nov 25, 2009 12:08 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Don't expect any studies relating mammograms and cancer to be conducted anytime soon.
Posted by: rafaeltoral
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Posted by: franklyspanking on Nov 25, 2009 12:44 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Drinking, smoking, insisting on a bacon topping for three out of your five meals during the day all contribute massively to your risk of dieing from breast cancer, in addition to genetics and environmental exposures. Thus, the prAggressive war on McDonalds on behalf of all things breastly makes much sense.
...but, considering "teh maths", as the author does, if you're really into saving lives on an equal-opportunity basis, you'd do well to look into those nasty automobiles, what with their ~40 fold higher risk of death over the same time period and 220 fold higher probability of causing your demise over your lifetime (1:84!!!).
And they're almost all 100% preventable, unless you've found a 'bad driving gene*'.
*No jokes about...nevermind...it's all tai hao la. :P
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» Doh! Math magic...
Posted by: franklyspanking
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Posted by: Senorita Bonita on Nov 25, 2009 12:49 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.cancer.gov/bcrisktool/
Other factors may also affect risk and are not accounted for by the tool. These factors include previous radiation therapy to the chest for the treatment of Hodgkin lymphoma or recent migration from a region with low breast cancer rates, such as rural China. The tool's risk calculations assume that a woman is screened for breast cancer as in the general U.S. population. . A woman who does not have mammograms will have somewhat lower chances of a diagnosis of breast cancer.
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Posted by: sundi on Nov 25, 2009 12:57 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anybody that wants to know more can do a simple search... here's one site:
www.ditiimaging.com .
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Posted by: wireup on Nov 25, 2009 1:11 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After thinking about it, I decided NEVER to have another one of these miserable "tests".
Think about it. When you go to the dentist and he/she takes xrays, what's the first thing that is done before taking the xrays? You are covered with a lead apron, from chest to crotch. Why? To protect the vulnerable parts of your body from the xray, to protect you from inducing cancer.
So, you're then telling me that it's perfectly okay to irradiate the chest to determine if you have cancer? Does this make any sense? Not to me it doesn't!
It seems to me that this "test" is simply a way to create fodder for the CANCER INDUSTRY of this country. And INDUSTRY it is. There are many many cures for cancer which are not acknowledged in this country because they make no money for the INDUSTRY. As far as I'm concerned, the INDUSTRY can go to the devil. I'll take care of myself, thank you very much, without this "test"!
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Posted by: maxpayne on Nov 25, 2009 2:38 PM
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Where is the old George Lakoff ?!?!?
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Posted by: djstyle25 on Nov 25, 2009 3:21 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why not build a mammography machine that smashes your head together so we can maybe find some brain cancer? Oh wait, we don't have that either.
Seriously if women want to have two cold, robotic like structures callously fondling their breasts they should call their husbands.
Women do not need mammograms...they need exercise, vitamin d, and healthy living.
Check out more of my riffs at
www.satirejones.com
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» And don't forget hair tonic. And snake oil...
Posted by: franklyspanking
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Posted by: jegnj on Nov 25, 2009 3:48 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You are ignoring the fact that breast x-rays miss many cancers as well - if you have dense breasts then x-rays are more than a waste of time - they give false negatives.
Of course the ACS is against this. They have hawked mammograms for over 50 yrs with no scientific evidence of their effectiveness. Of course many board members of the ACS are radiologists who profit handsomely from these antiquated tests.
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» Hawk mammograms and push "community water fluoridation"
Posted by: plantland
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Posted by: qwertyu on Nov 25, 2009 7:34 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Berynice on Nov 25, 2009 7:47 PM
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Posted by: Urstrly on Nov 25, 2009 9:23 PM
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But it wasn't. The tiny tumor was malignant and estrogen positive. I had a lumpectomy and I'll take tamoxofen for five years. No radiation, no heavy chemo.
When I compare the relatively light treatment I received with that of friends who have had larger tumors, radical surgery, and rounds and rounds of treatment, I am so grateful to have had a top-notch radiologist.
Mine was a slow-growing tumor and my oncologist says I would not have detected it for several years with self-examination. But if it had not been discovered when it was, my treatment would have been far more extensive and expensive, not to mention debilitating.
I worry that this study is going to mean that a lot of women of moderate means will not have access to mammograms, and that's too bad. The technology has improved over the years, emitting far less radiation than initially, and we can assume that it won't continue to improve if funding stops.
I side with Lakoff and Sebelius.
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» May I ask, how was your thyroid, Vitamin D and Magnesium?
Posted by: Prinzowhales
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Posted by: jparsons on Nov 25, 2009 11:03 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mammograms?
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» WRONG - the guy himself isn't speaking for the ACS, whereas the CMO of the ACS himself wrote this...
Posted by: mjabele
» In other words, the ACS via its CMO explicitly stated on 11/19 it DOES support mammograms...
Posted by: mjabele
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Posted by: Romans1 on Nov 26, 2009 6:22 AM
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» The legislation is clear -- USPSTF evidence won't be used to limit
Posted by: maggiemahar
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Posted by: qwertyu on Nov 26, 2009 6:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People are getting hysterical because they are ill-informed.
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Posted by: rgramenz on Nov 26, 2009 7:16 AM
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Posted by: judette on Nov 26, 2009 7:54 AM
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» RE: Just as many could die from the cancer caused by the radiation
Posted by: Prinzowhales
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Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Nov 26, 2009 12:33 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Really? So in Europe, they don't treat cancer? Don't do mammograms?
Posted by: mjabele
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Posted by: plantland on Nov 26, 2009 5:01 PM
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She speculated that engorgement that did not lead to breastfeeding correlated to later breast cnacer, since women who took drugs(to dry them up) had somewhat less cancer than those who didn't take those drugs.
But looking at older women considered high risk due to sisters or mothers, the ones who breastfed were more likely not to have had breast cancer.
Stuebe now has a lactation center in Chapel Hill NC.
This is a good way to prevent cancer and should be emulated.
Secretary Sibelius shoud vist there, learn more, and report back to the Cabinet that they should explore ways to help women stay home for three months after childbirth.
This should not be a gender equity concern.
Of course,breastfeeding helps the baby's health as well.
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Posted by: coeurl on Nov 26, 2009 6:08 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One of the neater tricks the consent engineers on this particular project have pulled off is to lump useful, innocuous pap testing with mammography, which is neither -- dramatically the contrary! People die and are maimed, physically and emotionally, after false-positive mammograms, but that's just the tip of a septic, mucilaginous iceberg toward which we steer, titanically insouciant how silly we are not to understand that squeezing a woman's breasts in a vise and blasting them from all sides with high-energy ionizing radiation causes 22% more breast cancers than occur in un-irradiated controls, according to an enormous study.
Zahl P. “The Natural History of Invasive Breast Cancers Detected by Screening Mammography”. Archives of Internal Medicine. 2008;168(21):2311-2316.
Scariest of all -- and one of the reasons we're not hearing it trumpeted on the late-night class-action law-firm commercials where the next medico-pharmaceutical mega-blunder always breaks water -- the people whose study generated this data (and who or close pals of whom, I'm guessing, still owe close to full capital on the mortgages of a huge array of mammography devices) decided in the face of these results, which fairly shrieked "radiation damage!" in their faces, that it must instead be that a lot of untreated breast cancers are getting better spontaneously, and "the natural history of breast cancer" needs to be looked into more closely.
Many people who blather on this issue mean well, or are just scared witless, but far and growing too many others are blinded by their profit motive or, worse, their inability to face up to the heinous truth their guilt and complicity entail.
caveat emptor
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Posted by: mycuz on Nov 26, 2009 8:06 PM
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the information is there and women should not be subjected to cancer causing radiation
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Posted by: RedAaron on Nov 26, 2009 11:13 PM
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Posted by: Reality Lover on Nov 28, 2009 8:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a progressive adult female and I resent the intrusion of George Lakoff and his 'three R's' into this conversation. I am not a child. I am going to discuss this with my physician, not a political marketing specialist or, God forbid, a politician.
Lakoff, why don't you go out and sell universal single payer health care and leave the details of what care to request to the individual?
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Posted by: EmilyCragg on Nov 28, 2009 7:24 PM
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Macrobiotics [correcting acid-base balance] cures cancer.
Duh. Allopathic medicine is SO FUNDAMENTALLY ignorant, they couldn't relieve the pain of a hangnail.
When we abandon allopathic medicine, big Pharma and secondary Insurance policies, we will begin healing.
The current "Health Care Reform" Bill is just another scam.
MECRagg, BS, MA, webmaster
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Posted by: Ewatch on Nov 28, 2009 11:28 PM
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Posted by: jcfried on Nov 30, 2009 10:18 PM
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According to the 2000 US Census there are 21,515,659 women aged 40-49.
According to http://www.imaginis.com/breasthealth the probability of a women in the 40-49 age group contracting breast cancer is 1/68, so the expected number of breast cancers in this age group is 316,407.
According to United States Preventive Services Task Force (USPSTF) dropping automatic mammograms for the 40-49 age group ONLY will increase the risk that 1/1900 of those contracting breast cancer will die from it because they missed the automatic mammogram. This is the key point. The 1/1900 does not apply to ALL women in the 40-49 age group, only to that subgroup (316,407) that are [on average] expected to contract the disease.
Therefore the number of possible deaths due to missing the automatic annual mammogram for women in the age group 40-49 is the number expected to contract the disease divided by 1900 [the USPSTF number]. That count is 167, not in the tens of thousands as this author estimated.
And it is this number 167, or 1/1900, that must be compared against the increase risk of cancers for all of the 21,515,659 women due to the x-rays. The point that the USPSTF group was trying to raise was that the x-ray cancer deaths due to annual mammograms of 21,515,659 may exceed the 167 deaths due to missing the annual mammograms.
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Posted by: jcfried on Nov 30, 2009 10:31 PM
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Posted by: arroyowash on Dec 1, 2009 7:42 AM
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Thermography is the safer form of screening. No radiation, no painful compression. And best of all, earlier detection.
Cancer cells are typically in the body 10-20 years before the mass gets large enough to be noticed. As a tumor forms, it develops its own blood supply to feed its accelerated growth and this increased blood flow can increase the surface temperatures of the breast. Pre-cancerous tissues can start this process well in advance of the cells becoming malignant. Thermography measures the skin's autonomic response to that inflammation – its "heat signature."
Modern thermography can detect suspicions of cancer's formation sometimes 10 years earlier than mammography.
It is also time to talk more about the fact cancer is preventable. Two years ago, the Susan G. Komen organization quietly issued a study that found breast cancer to be an environmental disease, one brought on in great part by exposure to toxic chemicals. Prevention is the best medicine. Let us demand that those pink ribbons not be put on water bottles containing BPA and toxic air fresheners. Let us stop raising money for "research" and start demanding that the Komen org, the American Cancer Society etc, do the work that no one else will do because it makes money for no one - educate women about the environmental and dietary contributions to illness.
Breast cancer is preventable. Thermography is a better screening tool. Women, demand that your doctor divest himself of his relationship with the mammography screening centers and use the technology that is better for the patient. It is your life. Be in control.
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Posted by: cplot on Nov 25, 2009 1:23 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Another thing right-winger like you like to sweep under the rug is that we somehow do not ration healthcare in America because we leave it to the free market. However, markets are a method of rationing. Markets ration products and services by granting those products and services tot hose willing and able to pay the most for them. So while we can provide all the mammograms these women might want and save all 42,000 of them, we are undoubtedly diverting resources from elsewhere that could result in hundreds of thousands or millions of deaths.
But in your framing to bolster the already wild profits of the medical industrial complex you can't be troubled to consider that wholesale slaughter of human life, can you.
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» Er...Lakoff? Right-winger?
Posted by: PeaceLove
» RE: r...Lakoff? Right-winger? yep, very close to it
Posted by: guns4everyone
» RE: r...Lakoff? Right-winger? yep, very close to it
Posted by: wbblack
» RE: Framing? or a cynical ploy to enrich the medical industrial complex?
Posted by: Lloydmillerus
» RE: Framing? or a cynical ploy to enrich the medical industrial complex?
Posted by: PeaceLove
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Posted by: rafaeltoral on Nov 25, 2009 2:22 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hear wearing pink ribbons is a good way to prevent breast cancer. Or at least that is what it would appear many people think.
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» RE: I wonder how many women get cancer FROM mammograms?
Posted by: kimberlydeann
» RE: Compare that with the rate in the article:
Posted by: oregoncharles
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Nov 25, 2009 4:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Womans healthc issues have also changed as our Role in society has. We are now at high risk for Heart disease. But I hear no one demanding regular echocardiograms. And what about the wave of Pancreatic and Colon cancers?
Heres the thing- Women are not the onlyy ones with Breasts- so should men also get annual mammograms as well?
I've had about 5 experiences with the Tit vice and all came back 'Inconclusive'- So how effective is it, anyway.
Frankly I, personally, would be better served with a yearly chest X ray since I'm a smoker.
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» Echocardiograms don't screen for heart disease.
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: ather Myopic
Posted by: mtnprivy
» RE: Government is rather Myopic
Posted by: McGovern72!
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Posted by: PJAW on Nov 25, 2009 4:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The correct position to take is, they help some and injure others and the choice of whether to undertake them should belong to the individual, using personal family history and statistical studies for guidance. And certainly those who choose to have them should enjoy the comfort of knowing that the procedure is covered by their insurance.
It appears to me that many Americans tend to want to establish procedures and processes that remove the burden of thinking and personal responsibility from their lives. At least that's how they behave, with little thought and no responsibility. When this is blended with an overriding obsession about money, dysfunction ensues. But we have the "best health care in the world", right?
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» only partly personal
Posted by: mgmyers79
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Posted by: heid on Nov 25, 2009 4:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How many will die of breast cancer from mammography radiation? How many will suffer, and even die, from unneeded treatment? How much angst will happen for false positives? How many who would have survived early stage cancer will die from the extremities of modern medical mill cancer treatment?
Doesn't the author realize that one of the most significant factors in reaching the decision not to recommend mammography before age 50 has been studies that indicate many early-stage cancers are cured by the body?
In fact, the single most important issue in all this is the claim that early detection equates to longer survival. When you consider that the survival rates are based on the date of diagnosis, not on the degree of cancer, it becomes obvious that the whole thing is a scam. Comparing only those with early diagnosis against those with late diagnosis, as the medical establishment is doing, produces no meaningful information. It certainly doesn't mean that lives are actually extended, because it doesn't take into account how long those who are never diagnosed will live. There is no evidence showing that mortality is lower with early cancer detection (with the possible exception of a couple of blood and lymph based types).
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» There's definitely evidence showing mortality is lower - perhaps you just don't know about it.
Posted by: mjabele
» I'd direct your attention particularly toward the Swedish studies...
Posted by: mjabele
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Posted by: NowAge on Nov 25, 2009 4:37 AM
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Posted by: Lloydmillerus on Nov 25, 2009 4:40 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
YES! The free market rations. . . but we do have a government safety net: medicaid and medicare to soften or eliminate that rationing.
Obamacare will give DEATH PANELS the power to KILL! Give me the alternatives and chances of freedom. NO POWER TO BUREAUCRATS! Their "recommendations" are bad enough!
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» RE: Death Panels?? If so, then Reagan/Bush death panels
Posted by: peterjkraus
» RE: Death Panels?? If so, then Reagan/Bush death panels
Posted by: JSquercia
» Gotta love the GOP
Posted by: cdmsr
» RE: Death Panels!!
Posted by: JSquercia
» safety net: medicaid and medicare
Posted by: wwittman
» RE: Death Panels!!
Posted by: koolwoman
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Posted by: mrbillwilson on Nov 25, 2009 4:45 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: GinaDCG on Nov 25, 2009 4:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whether or not breast (and prostate) screenings are advisable for asymptomatic public with no risk factors has been debated in the health care field for years. Can we just look at this argument on it's own merit without putting on those tin hats that tell us anything and everything that happens these days has something to do with politics?
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» RE: Gina D
Posted by: PJAW
» RE: Obama obsession / Tinfoil hat politics
Posted by: peterjkraus
» I agree. BamBam is certainly a disappointment, and a corporatist pimp
Posted by: moloko velocet
» RE: Gina D
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: chrysalis124812 on Nov 25, 2009 5:35 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Meanwhile poor ( AKA working class) people go without the benefit of even basic health clinics.
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» Great question!
Posted by: mgmyers79
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Posted by: pharmawatcher on Nov 25, 2009 5:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wrong on the guidelines: they didn't call for eliminating all mammograms under 50; they called for discussing the issue with your doctor, and recommended against annual screening for women without other risk factors for breast cancer, which include family history, smoking and obesity.
Wrong on the math: It wouldn't cost $500 million to screen all women under 50 annually; it would cost an extra $2 billion (about half of women are getting screened now, so that's 10 million x $200 per mammogram). But the mammography doesn't save 1 out of 1,900 for each year of screening. Those 1,900 women would have to be screened for 10 years to save that life. So it's a 10-year, $20 billion program in addition to the $20 billion being spent now to save those 47,000 lives (I'm assuming the $2 billion being spent annually now is saving half those lives). That's $40 billion or nearly $1 million per life saved. I wouldn't adopt Great Britain's threshold of $50,000 per life saved for endorsing medical technologies. But it is worth pointing out that their universal health care system has longer life expectancy than ours.
Which gets to the bottom line, which is that Mr. Lakoff is dead wrong on public health. Imagine what you could do with an additional $4 billion spent on cancer prevention. You could offer free smoking cessation programs to the nation's 20 million smokers. You could offer free gym memberships and dietary counseling to the obese. You could spread the word among women that artificial hormone therapy after menopause is a significant cancer risk. This would be some of the components of a real cancer prevention program.
Instead, Alternet contributes to a media frenzy that has made it almost impossible to talk about what works and what doesn't in health care. Here's my read on where Mr. Lakoff's "frame" will take us: Health care costs will continue to skyrocket. Rationing will become inevitable. And when rationing comes, it will be by price and income, not by what works and what doesn't.
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» RE: This is just wrong
Posted by: koolwoman
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Posted by: Prinzowhales on Nov 25, 2009 6:03 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Instead of touting mammography, Sebelius and the clown brigade in Washington should be publicizing the proven benefits of Vitamin D, C, iodine and a properly functioning thyroid, and Omega 3s...The only thing is that there is no real money in these...there is no money for 'health' care providers in good health.
America's 'health' care system is broken from the top, down and needs to be fixed, neutered, sterilized, stomped on and flushed. Remember who approved Vioxx? The same jackasses peddling mammograms.
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» RE: Sebelius, Bovine droppings and mammograms--none of these fight cancer.
Posted by: wolfbite
» RE: Sebelius, Bovine droppings and mammograms--none of these fight cancer.
Posted by: Prinzowhales
» I am glad you trust
Posted by: EncinoM
» Is this run by the quack who had his license yanked...
Posted by: Prinzowhales
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Posted by: rose448 on Nov 25, 2009 7:08 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: women/mammograms
Posted by: raven9
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Posted by: mtnprivy on Nov 25, 2009 7:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: mtnprivy on Nov 25, 2009 7:21 AM
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Posted by: wolfbite on Nov 25, 2009 7:23 AM
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» Mammorgraphy machine makers donate to American Cancer Society
Posted by: plantland
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Posted by: DAnnara on Nov 25, 2009 7:41 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pap smears are looking for cells that MIGHT become cancerous in 10 or 20 years. (Can the same crystal ball come up with winning lottery numbers?)
Mammograms look for tissue changes. Get real. My breasts go through changes every month. They get tender just before every period. I see no reason to panic over normal stuff. What I find to be dangerous is smashing them in a machine and then having needles inserted just to be sure. How dumb is that?
Want to live longer???? Live without fearing your own body. A positive attitude will do wonders.
Those of you monthly making health insurance shareholders richer year after year are free to do so. I'll spend my $ on my family and stay away from the madness.
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Posted by: moloko velocet on Nov 25, 2009 7:52 AM
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Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN on Nov 25, 2009 8:22 AM
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Posted by: McGovern72! on Nov 25, 2009 9:45 AM
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Posted by: harpy on Nov 25, 2009 9:53 AM
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» RE: The US Preventative Services Task Force
Posted by: katinmn
» absolutely right
Posted by: wwittman
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Posted by: katinmn on Nov 25, 2009 10:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agreed with the panel's other points as well. The controversy shows how important screening guidelines are to public health and policy making.
AHRQ is one of the more reputable government agencies. The organization is research-based and their conclusions are based on scientific evidence. Most doctors I know agree with the stats in the recommendations but they reserve the right to advise women on an individual basis based on their own set of risks.
However, the make-up of the panel is of concern. While the panel did not have even one radiation or cancer specialist, it had some members with ties to insurance companies which is a clear conflict of interest. Government entities will only win back trust if they kick the industry folks off these public advisory panels. They have to be cleaner than clean.
Flesh & Stone
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Posted by: CJC on Nov 25, 2009 10:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But he is not a statistician nor a medical scientist with expertise in public health policy.
In any case, to the extent that mammography screening is sometimes useful in detecting tumors that would continue to grow at an early stage so that a woman lives to an older age (not just more years from diagnosis to death) than she would if her cancer were detected later, more would be gained, ie # of deaths prevented, by increasing the proportion of women who get mammography - now less than 60%, I believe - than screening the same group of women more often. This too is arithmetic.
These new guidelines have unleashed a lot of hysteria from women believing that once again we are being dissed by a sexist society to Democrats convinced that it's a kind of right-wing or corporatist effort to save $$ at the expense of lives.
And by the way, a lot of the epidemiologists involved in analyzing the effect of screening programs on public health are both female and generally politically progressive.
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Posted by: maggiemahar on Nov 25, 2009 10:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is what it actually said:
"USPSTF recommends against routine screening mammography in women aged 40 to 49 years. The decision to start regular, biennial screening mammography before the age of 50 years should be an individual one and take patient context into account, including the patient's values regarding specific benefits and harms."
"So, what does this mean if you are a woman in your 40s? You should talk to your doctor and make an informed decision about whether a mammography is right for you based on your family history, general health, and personal values."
Diana Petitti, MD, MPH
Vice Chair, U.S. Preventive Services Task Force
November 19, 2009"
The key word here is ROUTINE.
The Task Force says that women 40-50 should not Automatically have mammograms. They should talk to their doctor, and together, make a decision, taking CONTEXT into account.
Context includes family history. IF your sister and mother both had breast cancer that is going to affect your decision.
Secondly, the "harm" that comes from mammograms is not, as Lakoff speculates, merely "anxiety."
Here is what the largest study that reviews mammogram reserach reveals:
"“For every 2,000 women invited for screening throughout 10 years, one will have her life prolonged. In addition, 10 healthy women who would not have been diagnosed if there had not been screening, will be diagnosed as breast cancer patients and will be treated unnecessarily."
Unncessary treatment includes lumpectomies, mastectomies and radiation.
Often, mammograms detect tiny lesions in healthy women. If undetected, many of these lesions would go away on their own, without every hurting the woman.
Lakoff's post is filled with anecdotes, personal experience and "I suspects . . " No where does he cite medical evidence.
The truth is that if you are ages 40-49, your chances of dying of breast cancer over a 10 year period are .33% if you don't go for annual screening, .28% if you do. (Dr. Steve Woloshin.)
(By the way, mammograms are relatively cheap.
None of this is about the cost of mammogragram.
The Task Force does "Comparative effectiveness" reserach that looks at the effectiveness of treatments, regardless of cost. "Cost effectiveness reserach" is something entirely different.
Finally who is Geroge Lakoff?
He is not a M.D., not a medical reserach, not even a scientist.
He is a linguist who admires the way conservatives "frame issues" to persuade -- much the way advertisers use words to mislead.
Reading Lakoff's post, I am reminded of this statement by Dr. Adriane Fugh-Berman MD of Georgetown University Medical Center, and director of PharmedOut.org and Alicia M. Bell, project manager of PharmedOut and member of the board of directors of the National Women's Health Network,, talking about much of the criticism of the Task Force's statement:
"Vague, fact-free, emotionally charged statements are the language of public relations, not scientific discourse."
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» RE: This Post Is Filled With Misinformation
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Largest study
Posted by: maggiemahar
» RE: This Post Is Filled With Misinformation
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: This Post Is Filled With Misinformation
Posted by: jcfried
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Posted by: gnat on Nov 25, 2009 11:44 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Relax wingers - only kidding (sort of).
However, if simply changing mammograms to bi-annual instead of annual checks on 40 to 50 year old ladies would save 4% of our overall annual medical cost (say $100 billion annually) will some future Gov Health Panel and numbers crunchers decide that *might* be worth the trade off of an extra few thousand middle age ladies dying from breast cancer?
Hmmmmm.
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Nov 25, 2009 12:08 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Don't expect any studies relating mammograms and cancer to be conducted anytime soon.
Posted by: rafaeltoral
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Posted by: franklyspanking on Nov 25, 2009 12:44 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Drinking, smoking, insisting on a bacon topping for three out of your five meals during the day all contribute massively to your risk of dieing from breast cancer, in addition to genetics and environmental exposures. Thus, the prAggressive war on McDonalds on behalf of all things breastly makes much sense.
...but, considering "teh maths", as the author does, if you're really into saving lives on an equal-opportunity basis, you'd do well to look into those nasty automobiles, what with their ~40 fold higher risk of death over the same time period and 220 fold higher probability of causing your demise over your lifetime (1:84!!!).
And they're almost all 100% preventable, unless you've found a 'bad driving gene*'.
*No jokes about...nevermind...it's all tai hao la. :P
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» Doh! Math magic...
Posted by: franklyspanking
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Posted by: Senorita Bonita on Nov 25, 2009 12:49 PM
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http://www.cancer.gov/bcrisktool/
Other factors may also affect risk and are not accounted for by the tool. These factors include previous radiation therapy to the chest for the treatment of Hodgkin lymphoma or recent migration from a region with low breast cancer rates, such as rural China. The tool's risk calculations assume that a woman is screened for breast cancer as in the general U.S. population. . A woman who does not have mammograms will have somewhat lower chances of a diagnosis of breast cancer.
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Posted by: sundi on Nov 25, 2009 12:57 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anybody that wants to know more can do a simple search... here's one site:
www.ditiimaging.com .
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Posted by: wireup on Nov 25, 2009 1:11 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After thinking about it, I decided NEVER to have another one of these miserable "tests".
Think about it. When you go to the dentist and he/she takes xrays, what's the first thing that is done before taking the xrays? You are covered with a lead apron, from chest to crotch. Why? To protect the vulnerable parts of your body from the xray, to protect you from inducing cancer.
So, you're then telling me that it's perfectly okay to irradiate the chest to determine if you have cancer? Does this make any sense? Not to me it doesn't!
It seems to me that this "test" is simply a way to create fodder for the CANCER INDUSTRY of this country. And INDUSTRY it is. There are many many cures for cancer which are not acknowledged in this country because they make no money for the INDUSTRY. As far as I'm concerned, the INDUSTRY can go to the devil. I'll take care of myself, thank you very much, without this "test"!
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Posted by: maxpayne on Nov 25, 2009 2:38 PM
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Where is the old George Lakoff ?!?!?
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Posted by: djstyle25 on Nov 25, 2009 3:21 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why not build a mammography machine that smashes your head together so we can maybe find some brain cancer? Oh wait, we don't have that either.
Seriously if women want to have two cold, robotic like structures callously fondling their breasts they should call their husbands.
Women do not need mammograms...they need exercise, vitamin d, and healthy living.
Check out more of my riffs at
www.satirejones.com
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» And don't forget hair tonic. And snake oil...
Posted by: franklyspanking
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Posted by: jegnj on Nov 25, 2009 3:48 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You are ignoring the fact that breast x-rays miss many cancers as well - if you have dense breasts then x-rays are more than a waste of time - they give false negatives.
Of course the ACS is against this. They have hawked mammograms for over 50 yrs with no scientific evidence of their effectiveness. Of course many board members of the ACS are radiologists who profit handsomely from these antiquated tests.
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» Hawk mammograms and push "community water fluoridation"
Posted by: plantland
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Posted by: qwertyu on Nov 25, 2009 7:34 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Berynice on Nov 25, 2009 7:47 PM
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Posted by: Urstrly on Nov 25, 2009 9:23 PM
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But it wasn't. The tiny tumor was malignant and estrogen positive. I had a lumpectomy and I'll take tamoxofen for five years. No radiation, no heavy chemo.
When I compare the relatively light treatment I received with that of friends who have had larger tumors, radical surgery, and rounds and rounds of treatment, I am so grateful to have had a top-notch radiologist.
Mine was a slow-growing tumor and my oncologist says I would not have detected it for several years with self-examination. But if it had not been discovered when it was, my treatment would have been far more extensive and expensive, not to mention debilitating.
I worry that this study is going to mean that a lot of women of moderate means will not have access to mammograms, and that's too bad. The technology has improved over the years, emitting far less radiation than initially, and we can assume that it won't continue to improve if funding stops.
I side with Lakoff and Sebelius.
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» May I ask, how was your thyroid, Vitamin D and Magnesium?
Posted by: Prinzowhales
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Posted by: jparsons on Nov 25, 2009 11:03 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mammograms?
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» WRONG - the guy himself isn't speaking for the ACS, whereas the CMO of the ACS himself wrote this...
Posted by: mjabele
» In other words, the ACS via its CMO explicitly stated on 11/19 it DOES support mammograms...
Posted by: mjabele
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Posted by: Romans1 on Nov 26, 2009 6:22 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» The legislation is clear -- USPSTF evidence won't be used to limit
Posted by: maggiemahar
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Posted by: qwertyu on Nov 26, 2009 6:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People are getting hysterical because they are ill-informed.
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Posted by: rgramenz on Nov 26, 2009 7:16 AM
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Posted by: judette on Nov 26, 2009 7:54 AM
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» RE: Just as many could die from the cancer caused by the radiation
Posted by: Prinzowhales
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Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Nov 26, 2009 12:33 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Really? So in Europe, they don't treat cancer? Don't do mammograms?
Posted by: mjabele
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Posted by: plantland on Nov 26, 2009 5:01 PM
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She speculated that engorgement that did not lead to breastfeeding correlated to later breast cnacer, since women who took drugs(to dry them up) had somewhat less cancer than those who didn't take those drugs.
But looking at older women considered high risk due to sisters or mothers, the ones who breastfed were more likely not to have had breast cancer.
Stuebe now has a lactation center in Chapel Hill NC.
This is a good way to prevent cancer and should be emulated.
Secretary Sibelius shoud vist there, learn more, and report back to the Cabinet that they should explore ways to help women stay home for three months after childbirth.
This should not be a gender equity concern.
Of course,breastfeeding helps the baby's health as well.
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Posted by: coeurl on Nov 26, 2009 6:08 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One of the neater tricks the consent engineers on this particular project have pulled off is to lump useful, innocuous pap testing with mammography, which is neither -- dramatically the contrary! People die and are maimed, physically and emotionally, after false-positive mammograms, but that's just the tip of a septic, mucilaginous iceberg toward which we steer, titanically insouciant how silly we are not to understand that squeezing a woman's breasts in a vise and blasting them from all sides with high-energy ionizing radiation causes 22% more breast cancers than occur in un-irradiated controls, according to an enormous study.
Zahl P. “The Natural History of Invasive Breast Cancers Detected by Screening Mammography”. Archives of Internal Medicine. 2008;168(21):2311-2316.
Scariest of all -- and one of the reasons we're not hearing it trumpeted on the late-night class-action law-firm commercials where the next medico-pharmaceutical mega-blunder always breaks water -- the people whose study generated this data (and who or close pals of whom, I'm guessing, still owe close to full capital on the mortgages of a huge array of mammography devices) decided in the face of these results, which fairly shrieked "radiation damage!" in their faces, that it must instead be that a lot of untreated breast cancers are getting better spontaneously, and "the natural history of breast cancer" needs to be looked into more closely.
Many people who blather on this issue mean well, or are just scared witless, but far and growing too many others are blinded by their profit motive or, worse, their inability to face up to the heinous truth their guilt and complicity entail.
caveat emptor
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Posted by: mycuz on Nov 26, 2009 8:06 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the information is there and women should not be subjected to cancer causing radiation
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Posted by: RedAaron on Nov 26, 2009 11:13 PM
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Posted by: Reality Lover on Nov 28, 2009 8:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a progressive adult female and I resent the intrusion of George Lakoff and his 'three R's' into this conversation. I am not a child. I am going to discuss this with my physician, not a political marketing specialist or, God forbid, a politician.
Lakoff, why don't you go out and sell universal single payer health care and leave the details of what care to request to the individual?
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Posted by: EmilyCragg on Nov 28, 2009 7:24 PM
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Macrobiotics [correcting acid-base balance] cures cancer.
Duh. Allopathic medicine is SO FUNDAMENTALLY ignorant, they couldn't relieve the pain of a hangnail.
When we abandon allopathic medicine, big Pharma and secondary Insurance policies, we will begin healing.
The current "Health Care Reform" Bill is just another scam.
MECRagg, BS, MA, webmaster
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Posted by: Ewatch on Nov 28, 2009 11:28 PM
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Posted by: jcfried on Nov 30, 2009 10:18 PM
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According to the 2000 US Census there are 21,515,659 women aged 40-49.
According to http://www.imaginis.com/breasthealth the probability of a women in the 40-49 age group contracting breast cancer is 1/68, so the expected number of breast cancers in this age group is 316,407.
According to United States Preventive Services Task Force (USPSTF) dropping automatic mammograms for the 40-49 age group ONLY will increase the risk that 1/1900 of those contracting breast cancer will die from it because they missed the automatic mammogram. This is the key point. The 1/1900 does not apply to ALL women in the 40-49 age group, only to that subgroup (316,407) that are [on average] expected to contract the disease.
Therefore the number of possible deaths due to missing the automatic annual mammogram for women in the age group 40-49 is the number expected to contract the disease divided by 1900 [the USPSTF number]. That count is 167, not in the tens of thousands as this author estimated.
And it is this number 167, or 1/1900, that must be compared against the increase risk of cancers for all of the 21,515,659 women due to the x-rays. The point that the USPSTF group was trying to raise was that the x-ray cancer deaths due to annual mammograms of 21,515,659 may exceed the 167 deaths due to missing the annual mammograms.
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Posted by: jcfried on Nov 30, 2009 10:31 PM
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Posted by: arroyowash on Dec 1, 2009 7:42 AM
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Thermography is the safer form of screening. No radiation, no painful compression. And best of all, earlier detection.
Cancer cells are typically in the body 10-20 years before the mass gets large enough to be noticed. As a tumor forms, it develops its own blood supply to feed its accelerated growth and this increased blood flow can increase the surface temperatures of the breast. Pre-cancerous tissues can start this process well in advance of the cells becoming malignant. Thermography measures the skin's autonomic response to that inflammation – its "heat signature."
Modern thermography can detect suspicions of cancer's formation sometimes 10 years earlier than mammography.
It is also time to talk more about the fact cancer is preventable. Two years ago, the Susan G. Komen organization quietly issued a study that found breast cancer to be an environmental disease, one brought on in great part by exposure to toxic chemicals. Prevention is the best medicine. Let us demand that those pink ribbons not be put on water bottles containing BPA and toxic air fresheners. Let us stop raising money for "research" and start demanding that the Komen org, the American Cancer Society etc, do the work that no one else will do because it makes money for no one - educate women about the environmental and dietary contributions to illness.
Breast cancer is preventable. Thermography is a better screening tool. Women, demand that your doctor divest himself of his relationship with the mammography screening centers and use the technology that is better for the patient. It is your life. Be in control.
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