Home
Archive
Newsletters
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise

Reproductive Justice and Gender

Going Green Means Having Fewer Kids

By Emily Badger, Miller-McCune.com. Posted October 19, 2009.


There are already just too many people on the planet. What are we supposed to do about it?
Advertisement
Upcoming AlterNet stories on Digg

Andrew Revkin, an environmental reporter for The New York Times and author of the paper's Dot Earth blog, warns that the math is pretty depressing.

There are about 6.8 billion people on the planet today, a number projected to get to 9 billion by 2050. Americans, the world's greatest per-capita emitters of greenhouse gas emissions, produce about 20 tons of the stuff per person, per year. If we were to cut that in half, as emissions rose with the quality of life in much of the Third World, and everyone on the planet met around 10 tons per person, per year, simple multiplication says we'd collectively emit 90 billion tons of carbon dioxide annually come 2050.

That's three times the already problematic current number.

When we start to think about that number, 9 billion, a lot of "cheery suppositions" about what the world can do to curb climate change evaporate, Revkin said (via carbon footprint-minimizing Skype from his desk in New York). He spoke to an event in Washington discussing population trends and climate change, and the media that seldom correlate the two.

The interrelated topics aren't likely to get much talk when global leaders meet in Copenhagen in December for the next round of wrangling over a successor to the Kyoto Protocol. But at least the media could start highlighting the sensitive relationship, as was suggested at the talk hosted by the Woodrow Wilson Center.

A couple of mental roadblocks emerge, central among them the sentiment that, well, there are just too many people on the planet, so what are we supposed to do about it? Any answer trips up against the politically touchy topic of family planning (a distinctly different concept, reproductive-health advocates stress, from "population control").

"The single most concrete, substantive thing a young American could do is not turning off the lights or driving a Prius," Revkin said. "It's having fewer kids."

But this is just a thought exercise, he cautions, and no model for the kind of official policy most Americans would want to live with. A recent study, though, by the London School of Economics and the British-based Optimum Population Trust, suggests meeting the world's unmet need for access to reproductive health would be the most effective and cheapest way to start dramatically cutting carbon dioxide.

Each $7 spent on basic family planning between now and 2050 would reduce emissions by more than a ton, the research says. To get the same reduction through alternative energy would cost at least $32 (or, as much as $83 to implement carbon capture and storage in coal plants, $92 to develop plug-in hybrids, or $131 for electric vehicles).

Providing such family planning over the next four decades would be the equivalent of reducing global CO2 by six times America's annual emissions.

All of this, though, assumes there's nothing controversial about getting birth control to rural Africa. Not that the conversation has to start with The Pill: Wherever women have been given access to reproductive health around the world, they have tended to opt for fewer children than they would have had otherwise, meaning that access has a controlling effect without being coercive.

Emily Douglas, Web editor at the liberal magazine The Nation and previously an editor at RHRealityCheck, suggested some historical context: World population projections were revised downward after the widespread dissemination of birth control in the West. Officials once predicted the trend would follow as birth control was made available to the Third World.

"But that assumption turned out to be false," Douglas said.

And so politicians head to Copenhagen with the most cost-effective solution to climate change (one piece, of course, of a broader menu) just as divisive as any other, inseparable from a web of policy problems that grows more connected to the climate by the day.


Digg!    Share on facebook   submit to reddit    Bookmark on Delicious   Stumble This  

See more stories tagged with: environment, babies, population, reproduction, greenhouse, global warning

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from Reproductive Justice and Gender! Sign up now »


Advertisement
Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
Anyone who calls for babies to be stopped
Posted by: John More. on Oct 19, 2009 12:03 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
deserves to be taken out to the streets and shot !

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» As long as they're not brown skinned, right? Posted by: login@bugmenot.com
BaBird
Posted by: Ka-bird on Oct 19, 2009 12:14 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Population control/family planning is, of course, a political minefield. The economic structure of the developed world depends in large measure on a younger generation to financially support the older one. Northern Europe already has a minus birthrate, with the hole being plugged in large part by immigrants. So one must consider carefully how to implement this otherwise reasonable, even urgent, project without being overtly racist.
A big obstacle, need I even say it? -- is the Catholic church, which fights hammer and claw against any attempt to introduce birth control. I cannot imagine any politician wanting to touch this issue with a ten foot pole.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: BaBird Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: BaBird Posted by: jonestown kool-aid
» Actually Posted by: login@bugmenot.com
» RE: BaBird Posted by: MT512
» What always gets me is Posted by: Althaea
» ZPG Posted by: mirimac
No aid without sterilization.
Posted by: The Antichrist on Oct 19, 2009 12:16 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The stupidest most worthless people on the planet are the ones that have the largest progeny. I propose every from Section 8 housing, WIC, food stamps to and the Red Cross and UNICEF require sterilization as a prerequisite for aid.

Eugenics or extinction.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Was he in Ladyoracle’s PhD program? Posted by: The Antichrist
» I don't plan on having kids Posted by: The Antichrist
» RE: No aid without sterilization. Posted by: Squarehead
» mzannjae Posted by: mzannjae
» Please STFU Posted by: leafsong1
» Exactly! Sterilize whitey now! Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: xactly! Sterilize whitey now! Posted by: richholland
» And You Can Help ... Posted by: Augustus_818
» RE: No aid without sterilization. Posted by: kev0001000
» RE: No aid without sterilization. Posted by: richholland
We don't need to do anything about population.
Posted by: teel on Oct 19, 2009 1:13 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Good old mother earth will make a correction eventually, she always has before. When a balanced system is upset enough there will be forces set in motion to restore the equilibrium. Perhaps the plague was such a correction, I don't know. What I wouldn't do is worry about life, trust me it will go on. Maybe without us, but life will go on on this planet. We have great capacity to f*ck up no doubt but kill life? We're not that good.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Human suffering Posted by: leafsong1
Oh that makes real sense
Posted by: chariotdrvr14 on Oct 19, 2009 1:22 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the age of Rush Limbaugh and teabaggers asking better educated people to breed less?

Yes, let's let the idiot carbon producing four wheel driving red meat eating voters breed like crazy and have liberals&leftists become extinct.

Screw that!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» You think politics are genetic? Posted by: westomoon
Some reasons why people have children
Posted by: atheistcable on Oct 19, 2009 2:03 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem might have something to do with religion. I asked two ELCA ministers about this. One said that some Christians believe that by conceiving, they're creating a body to house a "soul" giving that "soul" an opportunity to serve God. Another ELCA minister answered my question by saying, "No, I don't know of any minister who preaches that having more than two children is a sin."

But there are many other reasons couples have children. In most cultures of the world, the problem is that men want children to prove their "manhood." In other cases, by not having children demonstrates a man's "selfishness" and "unwillingness to take on responsibilities."

Black Americans--I have been told (I don't know if this is true)--feel that by having as many kids as possible will increase voting power of the black community as a way to overcome the effects of white racism. This idea may explain why Mormons and other groups have many children--it increases their voting power.

The Roman Catholic hierarchy encourages children because impoverished populations are the biggest sources of revenue for the church. Again, these are just ideas that I hear from others.

Religious people do place pressure on childless couples to have children in order to be accepted in the family or the community.

There must be more reasons why people have children--and I'd like to hear them.

What we need to do more is in every community, create organizations that actually celebrate childless couples. Show the advantages of not having children. Years ago, I knew a childless couple who had money to further their education, and they always had money to travel all over the world and really enjoy life.

In my case, I simply don't like children--so I never fathered any.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» tv ads might help a bit Posted by: aislinnluv
» Beck can't help it. She's an army wife Posted by: The Antichrist
» Wow. Posted by: westomoon
» Not an Army wife. Posted by: Beck
Ever spent any time in the "developing world"?
Posted by: charles000 on Oct 19, 2009 2:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ever spent any time in the "developing world"?

I have, and it's heart wrenching, and almost beyond comprehension - unless one looks at the larger picture.

It's easy for us here in the USA to pontificate on the concept of limiting the number of children we decide to produce, a concept I am very much in support of.

However, in other regions of the world, where the poverty and misery factor of daily life are truly beyond comprehension, the primary catalyst for this level of social disaster is over population.

It is into these hell holes of misery that the organized religions of the world come in, to enforce their bizarre policies of no family planning, no birth control, no abortions under any circumstances.

These policies have nothing whatever to do with some sort of mythical spiritual protocol.

The only way these organized religions can remain powerful is by claiming ever larger populations as their congregations, regardless of how miserable the populations in question may become as an artifact of these policies.

Unfortunately, the problems facing the world today are accelerating, and the disparity between this reality, and many populations which are expanding with reckless abandon under the enforcement of religious dogma is heading toward a global catastrophe of unprecedented severity.

What you are suggesting is the application of logic and reason, to be recognized by religious entities and populations who are incapable or unwilling to see the obvious.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

the biggest lie from the top 1 percent is the lie of scarcity
Posted by: Suzon on Oct 19, 2009 3:02 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The real problem is obscene self-indulgence by the wealthiest and those who imitate that wasteful life-style as best they can.

Human needs are rather simple: food, water, shelter. It's been more than 20 years since I drove a car and my life style is better than when I had to work to support a motor vehicle.

Greater equality and free birth control would slow population growth which is fine with me. But please don't play into the hands of elitists like the Duke of Edinburgh who is happy to be quoted as saying that people are a plague.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

If we cooperate in re-distribution, then the population will stabilize, at a higher figure than toda
Posted by: Squarehead on Oct 19, 2009 3:21 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You guys wouldn't know 'logic & reason', if it jumped up and down, in front of your eyes, wearing a polka-dot fluorescent vest.

Because, sort of, that's what is happening.

The problem is of resource & wealth distribution. We all in the 1st world, but esp. you in USA, use TOO MUCH STUFF.

If we cooperate in re-distribution, then the population will stabilize, at a higher figure than today's, but still a viable number. In subsequent generations, there may/ probably will be a gradual reduction in world population.

If we don't co-operate in this fashion, to this end, poverty will fuel runaway population growth, and poverty will provide a great environment for a different control mechanism, called disease.

Disease does not stop at nation state borders; we all will have a degree of extra pain.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Ass backwards and wrong Posted by: leafsong1
BIRTHCONTROL AND STERLIZATION NOW!!!!!
Posted by: teritenn on Oct 19, 2009 3:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Vote YES for FREE birth control and sterlization NOW!!! for the dumb breeders that just keep popping out babies year after year and then their babies are put into foster care because of abuse, and neglect. Because when the babies grow up the cycle repeats.

Free sterlization to all inmates in return for reduced jail sentance.

Free sterlization to all teen's that in the hospital delivering their 1st baby!

Free sterlization and/or birth control to all welfare people.

Manditory birth control and sterlization NOW! Save the world. Save our tax dollars. Save the children from abuse and neglect.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Soma next! Posted by: friendofpyrex
» RE: Soma next! Posted by: mizobe
Overpopulation is the Earth's number one problem
Posted by: ProfBob on Oct 19, 2009 3:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The New Scientist's (Sept 9, 2009) feature showing the world getting better from 1990 to 2007 gives us some 'damn lies' that seem to be statistics. For example, regarding hunger, it shows that--30% of the world's population was hungry in 1990 and only 26% were hungry in 2007. But the world's population increased from 5.264 billion to 6.572 billion during those years, so the actual number of hungry people was 1.58 billion in 1990 and 1.709 billion in 2007. Was this an improvement? Similarly for fresh water 22% were without in 1990 and 19% were without in 2007. In actual people it was 1.157 billion in 1990 and 1.248 billion in 2007.
But the article correctly points out the problem with human overpopulation. We should heed the warnings in the free ebook series 'In Search of Utopia' (http://andgulliverreturns.info) and the current updated facts in http://overpopulation.org

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» What problem? Posted by: leafsong1
» Then I need your advice Posted by: westomoon
» RE: Then I need your advice Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: Then I need your advice Posted by: ProfBob
stop glamourising huge families
Posted by: aislinnluv on Oct 19, 2009 4:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
get all the programmes about multiple birth families and families with obscene numbers of children off the air, now. no more kate plus 8 (though i hear the cable network responsible for that show is ceasing production on it), no more 18 and counting (or whatever the name of the show about the duggars is). this is obscenity, minus nudity and gore. current promotional spots for the duggars' show say that the wife has been pregnant for 14 years of her life! and she's carrying baby number 19! this is a white, presumably sane family. yes, religion plays a part in this ("we chose to have as many babies as god gave us") STOP THE MADNESS! we devour this pornography the same as we gawk at a car crash, and it's disturbing. cherish the children you have, adopt, foster, but curb this runaway breeding!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

People have kids because for the same reason they eat...
Posted by: jackpagan on Oct 19, 2009 4:21 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...their brain drives them to. You are here to procreate, that's it. Everything else is a consequence of big brains and opposible thumbs.

To those who choose not to have a child, too bad for you...you are missing out on the most love you can ever possibly experience.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Read much? Posted by: westomoon
Religions That Promote Over-Population Should Be Heavily Taxed
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Oct 19, 2009 5:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If World Governments are worth anything, they should stop talking nonsense about non-problems and start addressing the real issues that should be staring them in the face.

Religions are extremely powerful organisations, and many are exceedingly rich. Yet virtually none of them pay any tax at all, as they are classed as charities.

This is ludicrous, because Religions not only cause one hell of a lot of grief, they actually make existing problems of poverty and overpopulation far worse, by still encouraging large families and making all forms of birth control a "mortal sin" - in Catholic terminology. I don't give a toss if they are Christian, Muslim or devoted to worshipping fluffy bunnies. If they are promoting over-population, they should be so heavily taxed, that they will be forced to rethink policy or go bust. The additional funds raised should go into education, family planning, health and basic infrastructure - which means pipes before roads.

Any country or state, that continues to over-populate, is free to do so. But they should effectively be ring fenced, by denial of transportation and border security.

The alternatives to what are humane solutions, are already being implemented and involve mass genocide via multiple methods - war, disease, pollution, pharmaceutical drugs, financial impoverishment by artificial crash and starvation via control of food supply (GM read "Seeds of Destruction")

Exponential Growth - The Real Hockey Stick and The Real Problem

Tony

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

If you can't afford them
Posted by: cmaciain on Oct 19, 2009 5:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't breed them. If you can't raise your kids without tax deductions and other help, you shouldn't have them.

Children are NOT a necessity, they are LUXURIES. No one NEEDS to have a child.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Overpopulation is Profitable
Posted by: DrGeneNelson on Oct 19, 2009 5:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Alternet readers must understand that "Overpopulation is profitable" if you happen to be a member of the selfish economic or political elite. Labor gluts drive down the cost of labor at essentially all skill levels. Similarly, more people means more consumers, which bids up the prices for the necessaries of life. The greedy elites laugh all the way to the bank (and/or the polling booth.) Everyone else pays the high prices. You may learn more by googling on the phrase "overpopulation is profitable."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Problematic
Posted by: Crazy H on Oct 19, 2009 6:06 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wholeheartedly believe that (human) overpopulation is the #1 problem facing the world today.

But here's a inconvenient truth: children from large families tend to be better socially adapted. They have to share, negotiate, and bear their share of the chores. They tend to learn child rearing first hand by helping to raise their own siblings.

Single children tend to be selfish, unsympathetic and used to being the center of attention. They often have trouble getting along well with others - especially other single children.

So, ideally we would have a very few couples producing large families. Not gonna happen & no way would I support any government which had the power to decide who breeds & who doesn't.

But problems don't always have neat, clean answers.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Problematic Posted by: MT512
» Problematic assumptions Posted by: KrisLea
» RE: Problematic assumptions Posted by: Crazy H
Women's education and economic rights
Posted by: CJC on Oct 19, 2009 6:38 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Worldwide, the most effective way to reduce family size is to empower women - educated them, support their independence. When they have the opportunity to control their own lives and to earn money, even a little, they reduce their fertility. Family planning programs by all means, but understand that only works to reduce family size where women have some control.

As for the US - not having children is not "going green." Our population is not growing by natural increase but by immigration. Same phenomenon is more pronounced in Europe.

But before anyone gets on a high horse about stopping immigration understand that by allowing millions of people to participate in developed economies reduces their fertility and thus contributes to slowing down the world population growth rate.

Children are good. We were all children once ourselves! Not having children is a reasonable choice for many people but none of them should tell the rest of us that we're evil and destroying the earth because we have kids.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Reality
Posted by: Karl Marxman on Oct 19, 2009 7:15 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Over consumption is the real problem, not how many people there are. Industry, golf courses, Walmart. They all use 100 times the resources of the people that live around them.
These are the real culprits of our destruction.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Wrong Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Wrong Posted by: pelican beak
» Beck Posted by: westomoon
veg*ism is the solution
Posted by: vasumurti on Oct 19, 2009 7:27 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
According to the American Dietetic Association, "most of mankind for most of human history has lived on vegetarian or near vegetarian diets."

How did agriculture arise? One particularly interesting theory is put forth by Mark Nathan Cohen in his book The Food Crisis in Prehistory. This view is startlingly simple: agriculture developed because the world was overpopulated. Relative to the existing hunter-gatherer technology, the environment was incapable of supporting the existing population.

'"It seems odd at first to think of the world as being overpopulated...when the population was only a fraction of what it is today or to think of the world as environmentally exhausted, when it was more fertile then than it is now,'" observes author Keith Akers in A Vegetarian Sourcebook

"But we must remember that the hunter-gatherer technology is extremely inefficient with respect to land resources. It is estimated that each of the Kung bushmen (a modern hunter-gatherer society) requires over 10 square kilometers of land -- more than 2500 acres. At this rate of land use, the world could hardly have supported more than a few million hunter-gatherers."

According to one theory, primitive men were anatomically ill equipped to be full-time predators. Plant food was thus the basis of their diet, and meat was eaten infrequently. Hunting with primitive weapons--bones, sticks, and spears--is far more difficult than most people realize. Even throwing a rock with accuracy demands great practice and skill. If this theory is correct, primitive man's time was spent mostly gathering and foraging for plant foods.

A study of the Bush People of the Kalahari in Africa found that, even during a serious drought, the most important source of food came from vegetables. Four out of eleven males never went hunting. The others killed 18 animals in eight days. Their chances of obtaining meat on any day was about 25 percent.

On the other hand, the women always returned from their gathering expeditions with food; a 100 percent success rate. The entire tribe was able to comfortably feed itself if each member contributed 15 hours of work per week--even better than our own society's achievement.

"It seems...the real heroes of our Stone Age period were the women, not the men," observes British author Peter Cox in his 1986 book, Why You Don't Need Meat: "...our ancestors ate much more plant food than is popularly believed."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Wrong Posted by: leafsong1
» Get your B12 somehow. Posted by: plantland
THE SICKENING TRUTH
Posted by: stellabloo on Oct 19, 2009 7:27 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... is that Amerikans ALONE spent $46 billion last year ALONE - on diet products.

If $7 is enough to give a woman lifetime access to family planning, that ALONE is enough money to provide family planning for the entire planet. And that doesn't even touch the $630 billion quietly handed to the defense department in the wake of the $750 billion handout.

But that's not where people's heads are at - the #1 reason why I despise these kind of malthusian articles is because all they do is whip up righteous racial hatred for all those faceless darkies breeding like rabbits and dragging us down ... NO - we are the ones who are to blame for sticking our heads in the sand like the good little consumer rats that we are and pretending the problem belongs to someone else.

You could do Jenny Craig for a month and moan about the evils of overpopulation - or you could get your ass off the couch and use the same money to provide a life and hope for the future for a child who might otherwise die. That holds true 100x over for the Paris Hiltons of the world - who are held up to us as some kind of desirable role model.

~END OVERPOPULATION - EAT THE RICH~

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Wrong Posted by: leafsong1
» Go for the Garfield diet. Posted by: Laffing Garfield
» RE: Go for the Garfield diet. Posted by: Basenjis
veg*ism is the solution (cont'd)
Posted by: vasumurti on Oct 19, 2009 7:28 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Half the water consumed in the U. S. goes to irrigate land growing feed and fodder for livestock. Huge amounts of water are also used to wash away their excrement. U. S. livestock produce 20 times as much excrement as does the entire human population, creating sewage which is 10 to several hundred times as concentrated as raw domestic sewage. Animal wastes cause 10 times as much water pollution than does the U. S. human population; the meat industry causes 3 times as much harmful organic water pollution than the rest of the nation's industries combined.

Meat producers, the number one industrial polluters in our nation, contribute to half the water pollution in the United States. The water that goes into a 1,000 lb. steer could float a destroyer. It takes 25 gallons of water to produce a pound of wheat, but 2,500 gallons to produce a pound of meat. If these costs weren't subsidized by the American taxpayers, hamburger meat would be $35 per pound!

The burden of subsidizing the California meat industry costs taxpayers $24 billion annually. Livestock producers are California's biggest consumers of water. Every tax dollar the state doles out to livestock producers costs taxpayers over 7 dollars in lost wages, higher living costs and reduced business income. 17 western states have enough water supplies to support economies and populations twice as large as the present.

Overgrazing of cattle leads to topsoil erosion, turning once-arable land into desert. We lose 4 million acres of topsoil each year and 85 percent of this loss is directly caused by raising livestock. To replace the soil we've lost, we're destroying our forests. Since 1967, the rate of deforestation in the U. S. has been 1 acre every 5 seconds. For each acre cleared in urbanization, 7 are cleared for grazing or growing livestock feed.

One-third of all raw materials in the U. S. are consumed by the livestock industry and it takes 3 times as much fossil fuel energy to produce meat than it does to produce plant foods. A report on the energy crisis in Scientific American warned: "The trends in meat consumption and energy consumption are on a collision course."

Nor can fish provide any help here. There are signs that the fishing industry (which is quite energy-intensive) has already overfished the oceans in several areas. And fish could never play a major role in the worlds diet anyway: the entire global fish catch of the world, if divided among all the world's inhabitants would amount to only a few ounces of fish per person per week.

Nathan Pritikin, author of The Pritikin Plan, recommended not more than 3 ounces of animal protein per day; three ounces per week for his patients who had already suffered a heart attack.

Obviously, then, the idea of providing the entire world with a Western-style diet is absurd. But what about satisfying today's demand for meat--which provides only a fraction of the population with a Western-style diet? If the world population triples in the next 100 years, and meat consumption continues, then meat production would have to triple as well. Instead of 3.7 billion acres of cropland and 7.5 billion acres of grazing land, we would require 11.1 billion acres of cropland and 22.5 billion acres of grazing land.

But this is slightly larger than the total land area of the six inhabited continents! We are desperately short of forests, water and energy already. Even if we resort to extreme methods of population control: abortion, infanticide, genocide, etc...modest increases in the world population would make it impossible to maintain current levels of meat consumption. On a vegetarian diet, however, the world could easily support a population several times its present size. The world's cattle alone consume enough to feed over 8.7 billion humans.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Not at all off topic Posted by: vasumurti
» Humans are only animals... Posted by: ETSpoon
» And envision this..... Posted by: morticia
» RE: Humans are only animals... Posted by: vasumurti
» Would you like to see... Posted by: morticia
» RE: Would you like to see... Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: Would you like to see... Posted by: morticia
Why Wall Street and main street loves little babies
Posted by: ETSpoon on Oct 19, 2009 7:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
An economy where the population has stabilized or is in decline.
Investorwords.com

In which the birth rate is the same or lower than the death rate.
BusinessDictionary.com

The economy of a nation with a stable population and slowing economic growth.
TheFreeDictionary.com

Above is three simple, one sentence definitions of what constitutes a "mature economy".

Sometime ago in the late Sixties and early Seventies the United States entered near zero population growth, zpg, and the wage gap between the wealthiest upper one percent and the working middle class was among the smallest in American history. At the same time, however, a backlash to Keynesian economics, which aided in pulling the world out of economic depression, was metastasizing in the University of Chicago economic department in the classrooms of Milton J. Friedman.

Now let us jump to the economic dystopia of the present. The buzz words on the lips of both "liberal" Democratic and "libertarian" Republican politicians is "we gotta grow the economy" as the panacea to all our tax revenue problems. This is in light of the fact that the upper one percent want to live as income tax free as a prelate, and what is good for the Wall Street goose must be good for the main street gander.

As no one from the upper one percent on down wants to pay his fair share of the income and property tax burden to keep a modern society functioning, regressive sales taxes and fee increases, aimed at the leisure classes living the life of Riley on food stamps and welfare checks and minimum wage jobs, is the only way to generate revenue to keep the functions of government we all take for granted going.

Only by increasing the US population, through increased live births and immigration, both legal and illegal, can the Friedmanian free market model of continual economic growth function, in the short-sighted belief that more consumers equals both more profits and regressive tax revenues. Friedmanism has so distorted the relationship between government and industry that large, profitable corporations are regularly awarded tax credits and incentives in the hope that any tiny increase in new employees will offset the upfront tax revenue loss in potential new payroll and sales tax revenues.

Therefore every baby born or every illegal jumping the border fence is a potential new consumer and therefore a potential source of new revenue both for Wall Street investors and main street politicians. The Friedmanian free market economic model would come to a screeching halt in a zpg world. Toward that end Wall Street has not only suborned politics it has also enlisted religion and popular culture, think "Jon and Kate Plus Eight," in making the idea of zpg a dirty word in the United States.

Many of the social and economic problems now facing the United States, and by extension the world, would be alleviated by leveling out population growth.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Wonderful comment! Posted by: westomoon
Sinister article---even more sinister comments
Posted by: zooeyhall on Oct 19, 2009 7:44 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the most sinister article to appear on Alternet in a long time.

And I don't know which is more creepy: the article itself or some of the comments to it.

Eerily reminescent of some of the arguments used by the eugenics people in the 1930's.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I am the mother of 1/1,000,000,000th of the earth's population
Posted by: vyckie on Oct 19, 2009 7:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a former follower of the militantly pro-natalist "Quiverfull" movement, I dutifully gave birth to 7 babies even though health issues caused me to nearly lose my life in the process.

The Quiverfull philosophy cares nothing about protecting the earth's precious resources and everything about birthing an army of foot soldiers for Jesus.

It took my oldest daughter's suicide attempt to wake me up to the insanity of the fundamentalist worldview which I had wholeheartedly embraced and promoted.

No Longer Quivering

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Interesting Posted by: eddie torres
Collapse and dieback are inevitable
Posted by: ismac76 on Oct 19, 2009 7:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Collapse and dieback are inevitable at this point. Its just a question of when. Population cannot and will not be voluntarily or even coercively regulated universally until it just happens externally.

There is so much hand wringing about this and I suppose like any passionate fixation people have to work through it and cope with hating the river for flowing downhill. The earth ultimately will regulate our population as it has all other species through it's existence. Self awareness the seed of delusions both small and large!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Here is how you control population
Posted by: Deep on Oct 19, 2009 8:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1-Educate women, study after study shows the more educated a woman is the fewer children she will have. This has been shown to be true in both the West and in the Global South.

2-Provide better health care for women. Women in the 3rd World have multiple children because there is a high chance of their kids will not make it to the age 5. The more kids the more likely that one or two of them will survive past 12. Better infrastructure as well. Many lives can be saved by providing access to clean water.

3-Live in cities. City folks have less kids, because there is less space to raise them, and it is more expensive to raise them in cities. The fertility rate of women living in cities, whether it is New York or Delhi, is a lot lower than their rural counterparts.

People know when to have few children, people in the 3rd World don't need Westerners that they are producing too many kids. Especially when the average woman in Utah County, Utah will have more kids in her lifetime than the average woman in Bangladesh.

If you look at India, the average woman gave birth to 6 kids in 1947, today the fertility rate in India is about 2.5-on par with the US. It is also no coincidence that the average Indian woman today is more likely to not only be able to read but to also to have completed a formal education than her grandmother's generation.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: check your figures!!!!!!!!!!! Posted by: The Butcher
It's not the number of people, people- it's the rubber dog poo.
Posted by: spiritof1877 on Oct 19, 2009 8:08 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am so tired of listening to bs environmentalists using the overpopulation argument- it's a red herring. If a few more environmentalists would take some classes in anthropology (political ecology for example) they would not be using this argument. The reason the Earth is messed up is because we over use our resources (especially North America and Europe) There are hundreds of millions of people starving in Africa not because of over-population, but because capitalists have forced the people by gunpoint off of productive subsistence agricultural lands so that Nestle, Con--Agra or Exxon ad nauseum can make a profit selling substandard or toxic products to the markets in 1st world countries. What we need to do is put these kinds of corporations out of business. (Why are our resources used to make things like rubber dogshit in the first place?) The solution is to change our economic models (especially the concept of externalities- the unwillingness of economists to actually factor in the costs of environmental damages etc. caused by our way of doing business) and to stop marginalizing people at gunpoint, forcing them to live in areas where they cannot hope to grow their own food. We need to completely decentralize along the bioregional model and restructure our economy along the permaculture model. And stop forcing billions of people into starvation and poisoning the planet merely to ensure the obscene profits of the corporations. Does that make any sense?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

8 billion people with room for only 200 million
Posted by: John Freeman on Oct 19, 2009 8:31 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
More than one study indicates that the population of the United States alone consumes at a rate our planet cannot sustain. Collapse has got to come along 'one of these days'...According to research, more often than not when a society does collapse the people who are unable to find other food begin eating each other. Pretty much what we are doing now, it seems to me...just not directly, as yet.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

So then...who decides and what?
Posted by: zooeyhall on Oct 19, 2009 8:47 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So who is going to decide who is worthy of having kids, and who isn't?

Do we have criteria that test the "financial responsibility of the parent(s)? Education level? Genetic background? If there was a mentally deficient ancestor, do we assume the descendents will be the same way?

How do we determine which city block, city neighborhood, county, or country has "too many people"? What are the criteria for this determination?

How is the birth control applied? Enforced? Who does the enforcing? What are the penalties for not complying?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: So then...who decides and what? Posted by: garblesnatchy
» Simplify Posted by: westomoon
Wanna see our future?
Posted by: willymack on Oct 19, 2009 8:57 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just go to China, India, or New Jersey, if you can't afford overseas travel.
People destroy, defile, and poison every habitat they infest. That's what we are and what we do.
China's "one child" policy, rather than being draconian is one reasoned and logical response to population presures. At least they're trying to DO something other than dithering and righteous bleating based on absurd religious doctrine, which completely ignores REALITY.
Our beautiful, fragile world could comfortably accomodate about a half billion people, and STILL keep natural areas pristine for all of us to visit and delight in.
It may even be possible for us to change our ferocious and destructive nature in time to avert a calamity, but that would involve getting our heads out of our asses, and SOON.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Wanna see our future? Posted by: Basenjis
Akers, Lappe and Singer
Posted by: vasumurti on Oct 19, 2009 9:12 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Keith Akers writes in A Vegetarian Sourcebook (1983):

"Livestock agriculture is far less efficient in its use of land resources than plant food agriculture. This is one of the oldest arguments in favor of vegetarianism. It played a role in Plato's Republic. The poet Percy Bysshe Shelley invoked the argument in his discussions of 'natural diet.' Mikkel Hindhede used the argument to help persuade Denmark to adopt a lacto-vegetarian diet when Denmark was blockaded by the Allies as a result of World War I. 'If Central Europe had adopted a similar diet,' he said, alluding to the disastrous German agricultural policies which emphasized meat production, 'I doubt that anyone would have starved.'"

In her 1971 bestseller, Diet for a Small Planet, author Frances Moore Lappe pointed out that it takes 16 pounds of grain to produce one pound of beef. Most of the arable land in this country is used to grow feed for animals. Mathematics professor Dr. Richard Schwartz, author of Judaism and Vegetarianism, writes about the "insanity" of animal agriculture.

In his book Consuming Passions, Australian philosopher Peter Singer writes:

"The case for vegetarianism is at its strongest when we see it as a moral protest against our use of animals as mere things, to be exploited for our convenience in whatever way makes them most cheaply available to us. Only the tiniest fraction of the tens of billions of farm animals slaughtered for food each year--the figure for the United States alone is nine billion--were treated during their lives in ways that respected their interests. Questions about the wrongness of killing in itself are not relevant to the moral issue of eating meat or eggs from factory-farmed animals, as most people in developed countries do.

"Even when animals are roaming freely over large areas, as sheep and cattle do in Australia, operations like hot-iron branding, castration, and dehorning are carried out without any regard for the animals' capacity to suffer. The same is true of handling and transport prior to slaughter. In the light of these facts, the issue to focus on is not whether there are some circumstances in which it could be right to eat meat, but on what we can do to avoid contributing to this immense amount of animal suffering.

"The answer is to boycott all meat and eggs produced by large-scale commercial methods of animal production, and encourage others to do the same. Consideration for the interests of animals alone is enough justification for this response, but the case is further strengthened by the environmental problems that the meat industry causes...

"Environmentalists are increasingly recognizing that the choice of what we eat is an environmental issue. Animals raised in sheds or on feedlots eat grains or soybeans...To convert eight or nine kilos of grain protein into a single kilo of animal protein wastes land, energy, and water. On a crowded planet with a growing human population, that is a luxury that we are becoming increasingly unable to afford.

"Intensive animal production is a heavy user of fossil fuels and a major source of pollution of both air and water. It releases large quantities of methane and other greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. We are risking unpredictable changes to the climate of our planet...for the sake of more hamburgers. A diet heavy in animal products, catered to by intensive animal production, is a disaster for animals, the environment, and the health of those who eat it."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

How about adoption?
Posted by: apushpa on Oct 19, 2009 9:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Although I may be digressing slightly, I believe that people could consider adopting kids and/or pets even if they can reproduce easily. I'm sure it's complicated but probably worth trying or at least debating in this and other contexts!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

“Teach your children well.”
Posted by: Sojourner on Oct 19, 2009 9:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I expect that no one remembers Zero Population Growth. It was our 1970s effort to limit population size, because it was clear back then that time was against us, so long as we kept breeding.

ZPG has had to morph into other forms along with other such progressive policies toward world problems. All are overwhelmed by opposition from the military-industrial complex folks who gave us Nixon and Reagan and Bear Stearns. (Think “Chamber of Commerce” spend spend spend.) Our lives are dominated by institutions, not individuals.

The discussion of population explosion produces a list of “To Do’s;” just do this or do that. Yes, individual action is necessary, but until we do as China has done, require public permission for more than one child, it’s all just talk. Those younger than I probably do not remember that in the 1950s, anthropologist Margaret Mead, advised that such a public policy was necessary.

As a species, we seem to need to suffer before we change. It is good to plan for such change in advance, but nothing will be done until the suffering hits home. Otherwise we would have done something other than elect Nixon and Reagan, before the recent economic collapse. We didn't, and we won't. Denial, denial, denial.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» I remember Ms Mead Posted by: ChicagoWay
JUST EXPORT FEMINISM...POP PROB IS SOLVED!
Posted by: Deadbeat Dad on Oct 19, 2009 10:17 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"...There are already just too many people on the planet. What are we supposed to do about it?"

It's pretty obvious that wherever you have strong feminist societies, such as in the United States, then the birth rate drops like a stone.

And we are already doing something about the population problem. We've invaded 2 middle eastern countries in a blatant attempt to export feminism.

Once we establish a fully western legal & cultural system in those places, then they will have a consumer culture, Hollywood values, the Family Court system, 40% of households with no father, and a birthrate of 1.9 children per woman.

The problem will be solved.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Sallyport
Posted by: sallyport on Oct 19, 2009 10:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The single most effective way to reduce population growth is the liberating and educating of women. Empowering women will do more for the health of the whole world than any number of Marshall Plans or other of that sort of intervention.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

difference between selfishness and desire
Posted by: metavurt on Oct 19, 2009 10:45 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I also want world peace. Does that make me selfish, because I used the verb "to want"?

It doesn't seem to me you've had a chance to work with kids in any sort of capacity. Maybe you don't like them, which is totally fine.

However - I have to say from experience, that some of the most rewarding relationships I've had in my life are the ones I had with kids that were under my care as a youth leader/director.

And then you send them home, to their own families.

There is where my desire comes into play, and I yearn for a chance to be a dad, have children of my own, that I'm responsible for in every capacity. Hopefully, they'd turn out as healthy adults, giving back to the community around them - but past a certain point, they'd have to make decisions for themselves.

But prior to that - it would be a relational type that cannot be truly duplicated by any other method.

And, obviously, based on your statements, your parents were selfish too - do you respect them less (or at all) for having you? What value to you have since you were birthed out of selfishness?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

ZPG
Posted by: zepher on Oct 19, 2009 10:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's quite simple, just like healthcare = medicare for all. It is Zero Population Growth. Remember it? Back in the 60's and 70's it was a thriving organization to control human population for planet survival. Well, if you don't it was working until ronald reagan got into office and began the dirty step backward to the middle ages or stone age. Use birth control. All surviving cultures have used it thru the ages. If you can visualize walking the earth as a nomad, always hungry, eating what's available in season, an occasional meat treat and having babies. Little tiny humans. Some used nursing as birth control, some used herbs, some used infanticide. But they all had to use it or perish. Get over it, birth control works.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Ponzi Scheme
Posted by: maxsmart on Oct 19, 2009 11:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Population growth is the ponzi scheme of our economic system that has to change for a sustainable planet. Then we must learn to live within the means of our planet.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Accepting Doom?
Posted by: mizobe on Oct 19, 2009 11:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The world's population totaled about 550 million in 1650. By 1850, the population had doubled to about 1.1 billion. Since 1850, the world's population has increased nearly sixfold.
By the early 2000's, the world's population reached about 6 1/4 billion. The yearly rate of population growth is about 1.2 percent. At that rate, the world's population would double in about 58 years.
That's 24 billion people within a century from now according to simple math. The actual number will be more like 4 times that figure if we do the advanced math.
So what does it all mean?
It means that within the next 100 years humans will have reached an unsustainable population and the planet will see a mass extinction event that parallels what happened 65 million years ago. Only this time humans are the asteroid.
There's nothing that can be done. Humans instinctively want to have babies. Like locusts we will strip the land of every edible morsel.
The era of the giant-brained ape will reach an evolutionary dead end. Accept it.
There is a future after that but we won't be part of it. New creatures will evolve to take our place. They will eventually die out too.
I'm just grateful I won't be here and I don't have any children whose grandchildren will have to die horribly at the end of the human era.
Sorry folks, reality is what it is.
The Earth will renew itself and the beautiful young planet will be teaming with new life again...for a while...then it all cycles again..

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Maybe we should cut off our feet
Posted by: msjean on Oct 19, 2009 12:20 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That way we can prevent ourselves from putting them in our mouths.

This is a ridiculous argument!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

It is sad
Posted by: vertical on Oct 19, 2009 12:40 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If a meteor was comming at us we could probably save the Earth, but we can't seem to save the Earth from ourselves.

At current technology the Earth could be an eden at 3 to 4 billion. It is in bad shape at 6 to 7 billion. And it will be a living Hell at 9 to 10 billion.

The population deniers fall into two groups: Those that think technology will save us (Technology got us in this mess in the first place), and those who think that if only the rich share.

Some think free access to birth control will curtail our numbers, but population growth is fueled by irrtesponsible people. It is insane to expect an irresponsible person to act responsibly.

Here is something a little scary: Your average American has 2.1 children while your average American felon has 2.6.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Ah, technology Posted by: mizobe
taboo subject tabooed by a taboo
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford on Oct 19, 2009 1:15 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Population control is a taboo topic.
The problem of population control DOES relate to another taboo topic:

Religion.

Few people in these posts have mentioned it.

Religion does play a major part in our lack of reproductive responsibility.

The Catholic Church goes to Africa and Latin America and tells the locals that birth control is a bad thing.

The American Evangelicals pop out babies right and left to fill up our suburbs to consume more useless products.

On top of that...

I don't ever plan to have children.

I advocate the mandatory sterilization of mentally defunct individuals, repeat offenders, and anyone who has at least two children or more already.

I advocate the China Policy of one child per family.

Yes, I've heard the argument that it's not our population, its the allocation of resources and unequal distribution.

Yeah, Well guess what? Unless the rich who control those resources feel like sharing any time in the near future (unlikely), then we need to take steps to reduce OUR footprint, and THEIRS will naturally follow. If we stop having more than one child per family, the rich won't be as rich, because there will be fewer of US around to consume their products.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Wow... A Lefty REALLY gets Honest Posted by: ChicagoWay
» RE: Child tax is better. Posted by: Changling
Martian Solution
Posted by: justAnEgg on Oct 19, 2009 2:01 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In his Mars Trilogy, Kim Stanley Robinson proposes for each adult to be permitted only 1.5 children in their lifetime. If my partner and me have a single child, we have spent 1 credit each, leaving us with 0.5 credit which could be traded: it could be sold, or additional 0.5 credit could be bought to allow us having two children. The couple we bought 0.5 credit from would be permitted one child only. That way, everyone could have one, two or no children at all.

I forgot his calculation, but it shows that the world population would stabilize in a generation or two, and then would start to steadilly diminish.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Martian Solution Posted by: morticia
» RE: Martian Solution Posted by: mizobe
» RE: Terran Solution--Child Tax Posted by: Changling
There IS No Surplus of People
Posted by: EmilyCragg on Oct 19, 2009 4:32 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Queen Elizabeth THINKS SHE OWNS 6 BILLION ACRES OF LAND.

Fewer than 400 individuals own more than half the planet.

This is what is wrong.

Corporations exploiting labor, land and resources for the sake of consumption is wrong.

Governments creating suffering, war and disease to stem human demands for space is wrong.

None of that is even civil.

What is civil is, everybody gets a turn and a piece to work with.

What is civil is, governments by consent and not by slavery and compulsion.

What is civil is, the media tells the truth for a change instead of fabricating non-problems and promulgating uncivil solutions, good Globalists that they are.

I believe the Media and their corporate backers hate and despise the whole human race.

After all, peasants in South America and Africa enjoy a tiny carbon footprint; it's the CORPORATE CONSUMER SOCIETY that gobbles up resources.

Working people only have time to use what they need; it's elites that obtain, obtain, obtain and obtain more and more and more than what they need.

If we're going to attrit anybody, it needs to be the Elites gobbling up everything, not the compliant, reasonable and struggling masses who have nothing and ask nothing except to be left alone to live a life.

Elites are the parasites that need to get gone, not people with skills who know how to cooperate.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Pol Pot Said the SAME Thing... Posted by: ChicagoWay
» Speaking of Knees Jerking Posted by: ChicagoWay
» Your ignorance is murderous Posted by: leafsong1
The timing of this article
Posted by: hughesrg on Oct 19, 2009 5:04 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is kind of ironic as my wife and I have been watching what seems like ALL of our dearest friends having babies within the last year, as if by some archaic unwritten law or unsurpassable instinct. Despite "loosing' most of our married friends to breast-feeding schedules and diaper changes, we have made them decision to not have children for a number of different reasons. One being that we both realize we are too selfish with our time and enjoy our (multiple) careers and recreational excursions. The second being that we have many blood related nieces and nephews to spoil, babysit and hand back to their respective parents. The third reason being some of the points mentioned in this article. We've taken much "heat" for our decision (mostly by those aforementioned happy, but broken and exhausted parents and relatives) and are constantly preached to about the "joys" of being a parent. I carry an even greater burden as my last name essentially "dies" with me and my wife assuming my young niece eventually marries. Knowing this obviously saddens me but it still is not enough to convince me to bring a child into this increasingly fucked up world we live in. I write music and build from-scratch custom guitars that bare my namesake and hope that my name and contributions will live on through my art(s). As far as doing "my part" in saving our species through other lifestyle adjustments and remaining childless, well I hope that counts as a contribution too...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: The timing of this article Posted by: richholland
» RE: The timing of this article Posted by: hughesrg
» You too? Posted by: Farasien
EASY SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM
Posted by: Phe on Oct 19, 2009 5:21 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1)No more organ donation.

2)Anyone who flat lines is immediately announced dead.

3)Shut down all fertility clinics.


4) Everyone not in a committed relationship must use condoms with spermicide and an IUD.



This way the dying are left to die, those who can't naturally reproduce aren't over producing with Advanced Reproductive Technology and theres a much smaller chance of accidents.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Issues NOT being discussed enough.....
Posted by: MotherLodeBeth on Oct 19, 2009 7:02 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ideas NOT being discussed enough are sensitive issues like, why do we fight famine or disease in third world countries where there is over population? Why not allow nature to take its course?

The Gates Foundation says that all life has value. But does it? Why do we save the life of gang members who over and over get shot? Why do we fight to save the life of someone whose health problems are because of smoking, drinking, junk food? Why do try and keep an 85 year old in the ICU alive rather than allow nature to take its course? And why not allow those who try and kill themselves to do so?

Why do we allow the rich and arrogant to build McMansions that use so much of our natural resources? Why do we listen to celebrities who talk 'green' but who are not off the grid or living a 90% 'green' lifestyle while they lecture to the rest of us?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Japan
Posted by: Jeanne on Oct 19, 2009 8:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hear that the Japanese are not reproducing enough to replace their existing population. What's their secret??

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Japan Posted by: richholland
» RE: Japan Posted by: mizobe
Too wise, too late
Posted by: jwc1480 on Oct 19, 2009 9:09 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look, stupid, the people who don't read this, or anything else, are having children hand over fist. If you've got any sense at all, by all means have children until you can't. Raise children who will do something for this poor planet rather than just taking from it and those poor souls who live on it. When the intelligent folks fail to breed, the less than
intelligent....'Course it's a moot point, because the Muslims are outbreeding the rest of us by a factor of .... Maybe the ____will take up the slack and insure the continuence of
secular law and order. Or not. In 100 years it won't matter to us anyway.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Too wise, too late Posted by: richholland
» RE: Too wise, too late Posted by: leafsong1
Comparing by educational attainment, emmigrants to US have more children than those at home
Posted by: plantland on Oct 20, 2009 5:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is true of people coming from Great Britain or Canada to the US.

There are two ways to look at rates, by total fertility alone, and by controlling for educational attainment.

I was wrong about India above, in that the total fertility rates for Indians is a little less here than in India. But when you control for education, and a lot of Indians expert at IT and computers are recruited by firms, educated women who immigrated to the US have more children than their educational counterparts who stayed elsewhere.

The British were scandalized at the size of colonial families. Ben Franklin was one of 12, and that wasn't so unusual.
Big houses, big cars, better air here than at least Eighteenth Century London? Hard to say.

Here is a link that breaks down imigration fertility rates.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2005/back1105.html

I think that this is a problem due to our discardable culture, use of resources , contribution to global warming, not to mention requirements for landfills and open space.

Discardibilty starts with disposable diapers, (and now, post Katrina and collapse, seems to be applied to people, as well.) Of course, now the West and Southwest really doesn't have the water to wash diapers, grow food, fight fires, and allow salmon to swim upstream.

If our president would only talk about population challenges and climate change, and if we were to voluntariy applaud smaller families such as his own, and provide free family planning procedures at hospitals for families who elct to use them once they have had children, then other countries such as Indonesia and Kenya with high birth rates might take our lead, thus providing better opportunities for children there.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

How about "Blame Myself" month?
Posted by: Beck on Oct 20, 2009 6:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How about if one month out of the year, there is no blaming of any other group whatsoever? No one gets to say if everyone else stopped having babies, the earth would be fine (yeah, THERE'S a useful solution). No one gets to write even ONE article saying only meat is the problem ("not me. My lifestyle, since it's meatfree, is otherwise perfect, but yours sucks"). No scapegoating whatsoever. The whole premise of any article saying, "fix this, and we have no more problem" can't really be believable anymore, can it? How about, oh, October? It's almost over, so no big trauma this year.

Anyone think that spending 1/12 of every year analyzing, quantifying, examining your own life and no one else's could cause any harm? Right afterwards, it can all be the Democrats' fault once again.

How about if every October is also Green Fast month? You cut back everything you do that's nonsustainable to close to nil. After a month, we'll all have a much better picture of what is essential and what isn't. Anyone who is about to write "don't eat meat for a month" will have to stick to it themselves. Anyone who has been planning to try that will almost surely find out how bad it can make you feel.

I guess no one will be able to get pregnant in October. But anyone who thinks that humans have ever had their reproductive systems controlled by any outside forces for any reason, and therefore is using that notion to "fix" the planet is being deliberately unrealistic. Humans will not have their reproduction controlled, except by themselves.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Church
Posted by: pj1fwb on Oct 20, 2009 7:54 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree that the organized religions of the world have gone too far with the idea of having children! Children are not Miracles!They are the result of an egg and sperm meeting! This is something that the church should be teaching! What is a miracle,is ,if you can get your children raised with the right ideas! Teaching our children about birth control and responsibility is the Right thing to do!Going to church is fine,if you go with common sense and not as a sheep,believing everything they say is God's Word! Think People!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

uggs
Posted by: pt0595 on Oct 20, 2009 9:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[url="http://www.bootsmall.co.uk]mens timberland boots[/url]

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

uggs
Posted by: pt0595 on Oct 20, 2009 9:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.topugg.com/ugg-rainier-eskimo-c-17.html

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

ugg boots
Posted by: pt0595 on Oct 20, 2009 9:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ddfdddddddddddddddfd

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

We're better than that
Posted by: westomoon on Oct 20, 2009 1:47 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I re-encountered the old Destiny's Child song, "Survivor", the other day, and it seems so applicable to this discussion. Survival is what we're talking about, after all.

Have you encountered the group Pachamama? Or their remarkable symposium, "Awakening the Dreamer, Changing the Dream"? (The link will take you to a brief on-line version.) There are lots of problems with the way we are relating to the Earth, and they all need to be fixed. Whether we discuss them one at a time (as in this article) or all at once (as Pacha Mama does very powerfully), our individual and collective actions are endangering the human race and the planet that supports us.

We're all in this lifeboat together. Our lifeboat is shipping an alarming amount of water. To save all our lives, we all need to stop punching holes in the lifeboat, just for starters. After that, we can start patching the holes we've already made.

Overpopulation is one of the holes. Overconsumption is another. Bad land and water management are two more. Dissociation from the reality of what supports life is another. There are lots. They all need to be discussed, and they all need to be addressed, if there is going to continue to be a human race on Earth.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

"LadyOracle's Ph.D Program"...
Posted by: Lily H. on Oct 20, 2009 8:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...can you kindly refresh my memory, Anti? I seem to recall a past poster referenced by that title who appeared on this thread whom you took issue with.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

resume
Posted by: richholland on Oct 21, 2009 2:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Send all the bailoutmoney to Africa and nothing will change if they still make 5 to 7 kids per woman.
The whole Islamic world loves women in submission breeding and breeding.

Nice people help the poor with fresh water and health care so that less babies die.

The overpopulation is a time bomb.
The shortage of babies in Europe and USA too.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Not a shortage at all. Posted by: Changling
9 billion?
Posted by: donotworry on Oct 21, 2009 6:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
9 billion people on the planet by 2050 may be possible.It's important to awake most of people from break our own planet. Mac Video Converter

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

RE: We can always let them infect each other and for all else too
Posted by: Changling on Oct 22, 2009 1:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As is going on right now. AIDS plus other diseases caused by sex, wars, famine are all helping. Let us not even mention climate change but it figures in this too. Not just in Africa but everywhere.

If we don't stop it Nature will take its course adn Nature doesn't play favorites.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Well said!
Posted by: Medelasymphony on Oct 22, 2009 8:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am impressed, i have two kids and we have no plans ahead to have more, I am already living a good life, things are going great.

Nicole
Medela symphony

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Absolutely Wrong Track Thinking
Posted by: EmilyCragg on Oct 24, 2009 12:13 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When 350 ELITE HUMANS own half the world, the problem is not too many people.

The problem is the Elites take everything that should have been distributed HOLOGRAPHICALLY to every human.

Elitism is what is killing this planet--not people.

Bioweapons and Radiological Genocide are tools of Elites--not the tool of a Just God.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Less whites = good; More people of color = good
Posted by: papibear on Oct 25, 2009 1:22 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I encourage all white people to decrease their population. The sooner, the better, too.

People of color, on the other hand, need to increase their numbers, and take over more positions of power in the world.

Plus, humanity will be more attractive.

An increase in interracial procreation is also highly encouraged. The more biracial and multiracial people there are, the better we all will be as a species.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Too many = TOO MANY Posted by: westomoon
  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Advertisement
Advertisement