COMMENTS: 46
A Day in the Life of an Abortion Clinic Escort
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That's pretty rare, however. These rather more Christlike Christians are vastly outnumbered by those who call bullying "counseling" and intimidation "outreach." I'm able to laugh at things like the zygote curling mousse plot because it's just so dumb. But for our clients who don't hang out with these people every weekend, who aren't used to getting screamed at on the street by strangers, who are just trying to go to the doctor's office for Pete's sake (and does it matter if a client is just getting a Pap smear or is gray-haired or is the mailman? no, no it does not), it's not funny at all. It's just scary.
For a nation that claims to cherish its freedoms, America is pretty damned complacent about the harassment that goes on outside abortion clinics. Imagine this circus outside of dentist's offices instead. Imagine what it would feel like, having to endure being called a whore and a killer on your way in to have a bad tooth pulled. Maybe they'd throw little plastic teeth at you; maybe they'd even take your photograph on the way in. People wouldn't stand for it: I have the right to choose my own dental care, they'd say. Who do these people think they are? And even if I were the smallest bit unsure about the choice I'd made, even if some part of me wanted to be talked into a filling and not an extraction--why in god's name would some hostile, red-faced, screaming stranger get a vote?
Maybe there's an element of trolling to that analogy. I could write the outraged top-text for an email forward of this blog myself. "Can you believe it! A LIVING, ALMOST-BREATHING CHILD who will PROBABLY CURE CANCER SOMDAY is nothing more than a ROTTED MOLAR to this BARREN GODLESS WHORE!!!"
Feel free to copy/paste--but if you do, you're missing the point. Bullying never won any hearts or minds, and harassment or intimidation of private citizens going about their private lives is never, never, never a tool for good. There is no place for such tactics of fear in civil discourse, and no one who employs them can be truly called a warrior for good, no matter what they tell themselves while they're packing their bullhorn and their gore posters into the car every morning.
I can't make the protesters who camp out in front of my clinic in the mornings go away. I can't even make them behave like rational, responsible citizens. But I can make sure that the women (and men, and children) who walk into my clinic don't have to run that obstacle course alone, and I believe I can assuage some of their fear. I can shield them physically from shouts and eyes and cameras. I can assure by my presence as a witness that the protesters don't "forget" where the property line is. And I can be one voice of supportive reason, quiet but strong, in opposition to the shouting about the blastocyst deep conditioning cabal:
"I'm a volunteer with the clinic. We have some protesters out front who will try to shout at you. They don't know why you're here, but they're going to shout at you anyway. You don't have to listen to them. I can just walk alongside and keep myself between them and you. I'm sorry you have to deal with this today."
Their fear is why I escort. Their gratitude is why I keep coming back.
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Posted by: brett.palomar on Sep 28, 2009 4:41 AM
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Posted by: kittybrat on Sep 28, 2009 4:41 AM
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We recently had an escort brutally assaulted.
Here is my letter to our local paper about it.
posted in the Akron Beacon Journal
Published on Friday, Sep 18, 2009
End anti-abortion violence
I have read the article about the assault on Charles Wright by his alleged assailant, Nathan Chesley (''Arrest in assault,'' Sept. 4). While some reports are factual, others have been misleading. The article Sept. 4 implied the two men were merely on differing sides of a protest. This was not the case.
Nathan Chesley was one of a group of people who gather outside a local, legal abortion clinic to harass the women and their companions as they enter and as they leave. They yell horrible things to these women and the people who accompany them. They hold up disgusting signs and shout while trying to block the way inside.
Wright is one of a few who gallantly defends these clients. He is one of a few who stand up for the rights of women, bravely making sure these women do not have their access barred. He is one of a few who try to keep the anti-choice zealots from harassing these women and their boyfriends, husbands, mothers and friends. It is directly due to the conduct of the anti-choice protesters that there is a need for a defensive presence.
Wright was brutally assaulted, resulting in six broken ribs and him being knocked unconscious. Chesley has been identified by witnesses and has been charged with the assault.
This is the violence that is being shown across the country in the form of threats, bodily harm, vandalism and murder. Call it what it is: domestic terrorism. We must allow no tolerance for this violence. We must allow a safe environment for women who are exercising their legal rights to abortion, and for the doctors and staff who provide them.
As we await the outcome, I am proud to stand with the defenders of women and sanity.
Cat Givens
Akron
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Posted by: ankhet on Sep 28, 2009 5:19 AM
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» RE: What happens
Posted by: weenie
» RE: What happens
Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: What happens
Posted by: ankhet
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Posted by: kungfuma on Sep 28, 2009 5:23 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These escorts shold be trained in self defense.There are plenty of open carry weapons they could employ to thwart assault. Oh, that would prolly only apply to the whackjob "pro-lifers"
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» RE: why are they allowed
Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: why are they allowed
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: Beck on Sep 28, 2009 5:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html
"The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion"
When the Anti-Choice Choose
By Joyce Arthur
Copyright © September, 2000
Abortion is a highly personal decision that many women are sure they'll never have to think about until they're suddenly faced with an unexpected pregnancy. But this can happen to anyone, including women who are strongly anti-choice. So what does an anti-choice woman do when she experiences an unwanted pregnancy herself? Often, she will grin and bear it, so to speak, but frequently, she opts for the solution she would deny to other women -- abortion.
In the spring of 2000, I collected the following anecdotes directly from abortion doctors and other clinic staff in North America, Australia, and Europe. The stories are presented in the providers' own words, with minor editing for grammar, clarity, and brevity. Names have been omitted to protect privacy.
"I have done several abortions on women who have regularly picketed my clinics, including a 16 year old schoolgirl who came back to picket the day after her abortion, about three years ago. During her whole stay at the clinic, we felt that she was not quite right, but there were no real warning bells. She insisted that the abortion was her idea and assured us that all was OK. She went through the procedure very smoothly and was discharged with no problems. A quite routine operation. Next morning she was with her mother and several school mates in front of the clinic with the usual anti posters and chants. It appears that she got the abortion she needed and still displayed the appropriate anti views expected of her by her parents, teachers, and peers." (Physician, Australia)
"I've had several cases over the years in which the anti-abortion patient had rationalized in one way or another that her case was the only exception, but the one that really made an impression was the college senior who was the president of her campus Right-to-Life organization, meaning that she had worked very hard in that organization for several years. As I was completing her procedure, I asked what she planned to do about her high office in the RTL organization. Her response was a wide-eyed, 'You're not going to tell them, are you!?' When assured that I was not, she breathed a sigh of relief, explaining how important that position was to her and how she wouldn't want this to interfere with it." (Physician, Texas)
"In 1990, in the Boston area, Operation Rescue and other groups were regularly blockading the clinics, and many of us went every Saturday morning for months to help women and staff get in. As a result, we knew many of the 'antis' by face. One morning, a woman who had been a regular 'sidewalk counselor' went into the clinic with a young woman who looked like she was 16-17, and obviously her daughter. When the mother came out about an hour later, I had to go up and ask her if her daughter's situation had caused her to change her mind. 'I don't expect you to understand my daughter's situation!' she angrily replied. The following Saturday, she was back, pleading with women entering the clinic not to 'murder their babies.'" (Clinic escort, Massachusetts)
"We too have seen our share of anti-choice women, ones the counselors usually grit their teeth over. Just last week a woman announced loudly enough for all to hear in the recovery room, that she thought abortion should be illegal. Amazingly, this was her second abortion within the last few months, having gotten pregnant again within a month of the first abortion.
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» RE: "The only moral abortion is MY abortion"; anti-choice women who justify their own abortions
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: zipper696 on Sep 28, 2009 7:17 AM
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» Unfortunately
Posted by: dudelette
» RE: Unfortunately
Posted by: MT512
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Posted by: vasumurti on Sep 28, 2009 7:17 AM
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Exodus 21:22-24. If two men are fighting and one injures a pregnant woman and the fetus is killed, he shall repay her according to the degree of injury inflicted upon her, and not the fetus.
Author Brian McKinley, a born-again Christian, sums up the passage as:
"Thus we can see that if the baby is lost, it does not require a death sentence-it is not considered murder. But if the woman is lost, it is considered murder and is punished by death."
Halacha (Jewish Law) defines when a fetus becomes a nephesh (person), a full-fledged human being, when the head emerges from the womb. Before then, the fetus is considered a "partial-life". The fetus has great value because it is potentially a human life, it gains full human status after birth only.
Abortions are not permitted on the grounds of genetic imperfections of the fetus. Abortions are permitted to save the mother's life or health. With the exception of some Orthodox authorities, Judaism supports abortion access for women. Each case must be decided individually by a rabbi well-versed in Jewish law.
The Babylonian Talmud (Yevamot 69b) states that: "the embryo is considered to be mere water until the fortieth day." Afterwards, it is considered subhuman until it is born. Rashi, the great 12th century commentator on the Bible and the Talmud, states clearly of the fetus 'lav nephesh hu--it is not a person.' The Talmud contains the expression, "the thigh of its mother," i.e., the fetus is deemed to be part and parcel of the pregnant woman's body.
This is grounded in Exodus 21:22, in a case where a man is responsible for causing a woman's miscarriage, which kills the fetus. If the woman survives, then the perpetrator has to pay a fine to the woman's husband. If the woman is killed, the perpetrator is also killed. This indicates that the fetus has value, but does not have the status of a person.
There are two additional passages in the Talmud which shed some light on abortion. They imply that the fetus is considered part of its mother: One section states that if a man purchases a cow that is found to be pregnant, then he is owner of both the cow and the fetus. Another section states that if a pregnant woman converts to Judaism, that her conversion also applies to her fetus.
Some Jewish authorities have ruled in specific cases. one case involved a woman who becomes pregnant while nursing a child. Her milk supply would dry up. If the child is allergic to all other forms of nutrition except mother's milk, then it would starve. An abortion would be permitted in this case, a potential person, would be justified to save the life of the child, an actual person.
Conservative, Reconstructionist and Reform Judaism are formally opposed to government regulation of abortion. They feel that the decision should rest with the woman, her husband, her doctor and her clergyperson. Some Orthodox authorities agree with this stance. Polls have found up to 90% of American Jews supporting abortion rights.
The New Testament is more permissive than the Old. Paul claims Jesus told him three times, "my grace is sufficient for thee" (II Corinthians 12:8-9), and Christians misinterpret this verse to mean they're free to do as they please--ignoring Jesus' and Paul's other teachings. Pro-lifers need to become secular.
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» How's that extra chapter to your book coming along?
Posted by: morticia
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Posted by: frantic1971 on Sep 28, 2009 7:31 AM
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I would like to know how I can be a volunteer/escort for this clinic. Do I give them a call and offer my services? Any advice would be appreciated!
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» RE: I want to be a volunteer escort--how do I do it?
Posted by: WyrdSister
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Posted by: ladyoracle on Sep 28, 2009 7:48 AM
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Plus that women go to women's clinics for things other than abortions is something protesters should really take to heart.
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Posted by: smf1403 on Sep 28, 2009 8:06 AM
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WHERE IS LAW ENFORCEMENT WHILE THIS IS GOING ON?
AND YES, I AGREE WITH THE COMMENTER WHO SUGGESTED USING THE DEAFENING SOUND DEVICES ON THESE DANGEROUS PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE CLINIC.
IF MEN WERE THE ONES HAVING THE ABORTIONS, WOULD THIS BE GOING ON?
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» RE: THANK YOU FOR DOING THE RIGHT THING
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
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Posted by: dazzle59 on Sep 28, 2009 9:27 AM
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Sep 28, 2009 11:23 AM
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1)If you are pro-life how many children have you adopted/fostered?
2)If you are pro-life how many children with working class mothers that can't afford child-care do you provide free child-care for?
3)If you are pro-life how many times have you been to the childrens ward of xxxx Hospital to read, make clown faces for, provide coffee to the parents, etc. for?
4)If you are pro-life why are you not fighting for quality health-care and education for our children?
5)If you are pro-life why are you fighting for more abused women/children shelters?
Ok so it's just a few things that people who are really "pro-life" might be thinking about!
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» RE: Thank you......
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» RE: Thank you......
Posted by: smccown75
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Posted by: Trixietheduck on Sep 28, 2009 12:04 PM
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Sep 28, 2009 1:00 PM
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Posted by: EddDoerr on Sep 28, 2009 2:06 PM
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Posted by: Lilly on Sep 28, 2009 2:23 PM
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» RE: How Far From Door?
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: How Far From Door?
Posted by: Mbell
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Posted by: tseaview on Sep 28, 2009 5:23 PM
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I know that almost nothing would make me angry enough to use it... but I don't want to push my luck.
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» We need some kind of symbols on clothing: "Do not protect".
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: gGreen on Sep 28, 2009 5:31 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For example, a fetus could be naturally expunged, then used as firewood. The problem with this is that the crying covers the sound of the crackle of the fire for the first few seconds. After that, feel free to roast some marshmallows.
Simple exposure worked well for the Spartans.
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» RE: ?
Posted by: WyrdSister
» You certainly put everyone in our places and scored great points, clearing up a big problem.
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: Mbell on Sep 29, 2009 8:22 AM
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Further info: there was a case heard by the Supreme Court in 2005 affecting protesters.
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Posted by: greeneyes10 on Sep 29, 2009 10:33 AM
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Posted by: AuntBec on Sep 29, 2009 10:35 AM
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Becky
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» RE: Thank You
Posted by: ClinicEscort
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Posted by: Marshalldoc on Sep 29, 2009 1:14 PM
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Posted by: on Sep 29, 2009 6:31 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
working every Saturdays, with an off-duty policeman (both of us guys). We'd work from 7 a.m., until the appointments were completed & the visitor parking lot was empty. (Yes, some of the scheduled visits were abortions, but most were for other medical considerations.)
The screaming voices & rude signs that would drift & wave across the street & over the sidewalks (their legal boundaries) @anyone who was entering (or leaving!) –– & at us –– were quite similar to the recent tea bagger & town meeting's out-of-control hate. To see one's "friends" & fellow townspeople acting in such a way, terrifying the visitors (daughters, wives, fathers, brothers & gran'mas) was pretty awful & I have never forgotten it. Real violence was rare, but the threat of violence was continual –– an energy fed by misunderstanding, wrong-headed religion & the before-mentioned evil (hate). It was a lot of need, focus & long thinking that helped those people (though escorted & protected) walk past those people & into the clinic. It was something I have always admired. (Not to mention the employees & doctors who worked there.)
But, you know, I've never regretted helping or being there ... I just regret & despise the protester's self-righteous willingness to put added fear into people with more important matters on their minds: there was more than enough unease in many of the patients, no additional fears were in order or required.
m. swof.
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Posted by: smccown75 on Sep 30, 2009 8:33 AM
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While I cannot see myself in a position of ever choosing to abort, I choose to offer compassion to those who have made that choice. I don't think it was made easily.
I have a 9 month old baby. When I was carrying him, I was advised to terminate the pregnancy because of the situation with his father. His father was (is, most likely) an abusive drunk, and he promised he would never leave me alone. As it is, I haven't heard from him in over a year and a half, and my son and I live very peacefully.
I was terrified throughout my entire pregnancy, though. If I would not have had the support system that I have, I can easily see how the choice to terminate would have been more appealing. I can see why a woman would make that choice.
I think that if we are going to talk about choices, we should talk about the third option that neither side of the debate likes to mention: Adoption.
From what I can gather, many women who abort do not do so because they are afraid of the pregnancy. They do so because they do not feel equipped for all that comes after giving birth. Meanwhile, there are many people who want to adopt a baby, and would love to support a mother-to-be as she carries the child and prepares for the adoption.
Neither choice, either to terminate or to give up the baby for adoption, would be easy. However, the women I've talked to who have had abortions are haunted by that choice for years. I think we could all agree that there is another option, and there is no harm in talking about it with these women who are...often, very reluctantly...choosing to abort.
The best thing a pro-life group could do is offer these women compassion, not judgment, and really listen to their reasons for making that choice. Then, if it is still possible and it is what they want, help them go through the adoption process, standing with them every step of the way.
Abortion or motherhood are both all or nothing choices. There is another option, which can bring peace to everyone involved.
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» RE: We aren't all crazy
Posted by: ClinicEscort
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Posted by: smccown75 on Sep 30, 2009 8:40 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have to admit that I have a very difficult time with abortion past three months, because I remember feeling my son move, seeing him on the ultrasound, etc...and he looked every bit like a baby, albeit a transparent one.
That said, I think it is still of the utmost importance for pro-life groups to extend compassion to women who are facing an unplanned pregnancy, and understand where they are coming from as they deliberate their options. We need to offer real options, not hateful words, judgment, and criminalizing rhetoric.
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Posted by: brett.palomar on Sep 28, 2009 4:41 AM
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Posted by: kittybrat on Sep 28, 2009 4:41 AM
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We recently had an escort brutally assaulted.
Here is my letter to our local paper about it.
posted in the Akron Beacon Journal
Published on Friday, Sep 18, 2009
End anti-abortion violence
I have read the article about the assault on Charles Wright by his alleged assailant, Nathan Chesley (''Arrest in assault,'' Sept. 4). While some reports are factual, others have been misleading. The article Sept. 4 implied the two men were merely on differing sides of a protest. This was not the case.
Nathan Chesley was one of a group of people who gather outside a local, legal abortion clinic to harass the women and their companions as they enter and as they leave. They yell horrible things to these women and the people who accompany them. They hold up disgusting signs and shout while trying to block the way inside.
Wright is one of a few who gallantly defends these clients. He is one of a few who stand up for the rights of women, bravely making sure these women do not have their access barred. He is one of a few who try to keep the anti-choice zealots from harassing these women and their boyfriends, husbands, mothers and friends. It is directly due to the conduct of the anti-choice protesters that there is a need for a defensive presence.
Wright was brutally assaulted, resulting in six broken ribs and him being knocked unconscious. Chesley has been identified by witnesses and has been charged with the assault.
This is the violence that is being shown across the country in the form of threats, bodily harm, vandalism and murder. Call it what it is: domestic terrorism. We must allow no tolerance for this violence. We must allow a safe environment for women who are exercising their legal rights to abortion, and for the doctors and staff who provide them.
As we await the outcome, I am proud to stand with the defenders of women and sanity.
Cat Givens
Akron
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Posted by: ankhet on Sep 28, 2009 5:19 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: What happens
Posted by: weenie
» RE: What happens
Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: What happens
Posted by: ankhet
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Posted by: kungfuma on Sep 28, 2009 5:23 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These escorts shold be trained in self defense.There are plenty of open carry weapons they could employ to thwart assault. Oh, that would prolly only apply to the whackjob "pro-lifers"
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» RE: why are they allowed
Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: why are they allowed
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: Beck on Sep 28, 2009 5:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html
"The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion"
When the Anti-Choice Choose
By Joyce Arthur
Copyright © September, 2000
Abortion is a highly personal decision that many women are sure they'll never have to think about until they're suddenly faced with an unexpected pregnancy. But this can happen to anyone, including women who are strongly anti-choice. So what does an anti-choice woman do when she experiences an unwanted pregnancy herself? Often, she will grin and bear it, so to speak, but frequently, she opts for the solution she would deny to other women -- abortion.
In the spring of 2000, I collected the following anecdotes directly from abortion doctors and other clinic staff in North America, Australia, and Europe. The stories are presented in the providers' own words, with minor editing for grammar, clarity, and brevity. Names have been omitted to protect privacy.
"I have done several abortions on women who have regularly picketed my clinics, including a 16 year old schoolgirl who came back to picket the day after her abortion, about three years ago. During her whole stay at the clinic, we felt that she was not quite right, but there were no real warning bells. She insisted that the abortion was her idea and assured us that all was OK. She went through the procedure very smoothly and was discharged with no problems. A quite routine operation. Next morning she was with her mother and several school mates in front of the clinic with the usual anti posters and chants. It appears that she got the abortion she needed and still displayed the appropriate anti views expected of her by her parents, teachers, and peers." (Physician, Australia)
"I've had several cases over the years in which the anti-abortion patient had rationalized in one way or another that her case was the only exception, but the one that really made an impression was the college senior who was the president of her campus Right-to-Life organization, meaning that she had worked very hard in that organization for several years. As I was completing her procedure, I asked what she planned to do about her high office in the RTL organization. Her response was a wide-eyed, 'You're not going to tell them, are you!?' When assured that I was not, she breathed a sigh of relief, explaining how important that position was to her and how she wouldn't want this to interfere with it." (Physician, Texas)
"In 1990, in the Boston area, Operation Rescue and other groups were regularly blockading the clinics, and many of us went every Saturday morning for months to help women and staff get in. As a result, we knew many of the 'antis' by face. One morning, a woman who had been a regular 'sidewalk counselor' went into the clinic with a young woman who looked like she was 16-17, and obviously her daughter. When the mother came out about an hour later, I had to go up and ask her if her daughter's situation had caused her to change her mind. 'I don't expect you to understand my daughter's situation!' she angrily replied. The following Saturday, she was back, pleading with women entering the clinic not to 'murder their babies.'" (Clinic escort, Massachusetts)
"We too have seen our share of anti-choice women, ones the counselors usually grit their teeth over. Just last week a woman announced loudly enough for all to hear in the recovery room, that she thought abortion should be illegal. Amazingly, this was her second abortion within the last few months, having gotten pregnant again within a month of the first abortion.
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» RE: "The only moral abortion is MY abortion"; anti-choice women who justify their own abortions
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: zipper696 on Sep 28, 2009 7:17 AM
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» Unfortunately
Posted by: dudelette
» RE: Unfortunately
Posted by: MT512
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Posted by: vasumurti on Sep 28, 2009 7:17 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Exodus 21:22-24. If two men are fighting and one injures a pregnant woman and the fetus is killed, he shall repay her according to the degree of injury inflicted upon her, and not the fetus.
Author Brian McKinley, a born-again Christian, sums up the passage as:
"Thus we can see that if the baby is lost, it does not require a death sentence-it is not considered murder. But if the woman is lost, it is considered murder and is punished by death."
Halacha (Jewish Law) defines when a fetus becomes a nephesh (person), a full-fledged human being, when the head emerges from the womb. Before then, the fetus is considered a "partial-life". The fetus has great value because it is potentially a human life, it gains full human status after birth only.
Abortions are not permitted on the grounds of genetic imperfections of the fetus. Abortions are permitted to save the mother's life or health. With the exception of some Orthodox authorities, Judaism supports abortion access for women. Each case must be decided individually by a rabbi well-versed in Jewish law.
The Babylonian Talmud (Yevamot 69b) states that: "the embryo is considered to be mere water until the fortieth day." Afterwards, it is considered subhuman until it is born. Rashi, the great 12th century commentator on the Bible and the Talmud, states clearly of the fetus 'lav nephesh hu--it is not a person.' The Talmud contains the expression, "the thigh of its mother," i.e., the fetus is deemed to be part and parcel of the pregnant woman's body.
This is grounded in Exodus 21:22, in a case where a man is responsible for causing a woman's miscarriage, which kills the fetus. If the woman survives, then the perpetrator has to pay a fine to the woman's husband. If the woman is killed, the perpetrator is also killed. This indicates that the fetus has value, but does not have the status of a person.
There are two additional passages in the Talmud which shed some light on abortion. They imply that the fetus is considered part of its mother: One section states that if a man purchases a cow that is found to be pregnant, then he is owner of both the cow and the fetus. Another section states that if a pregnant woman converts to Judaism, that her conversion also applies to her fetus.
Some Jewish authorities have ruled in specific cases. one case involved a woman who becomes pregnant while nursing a child. Her milk supply would dry up. If the child is allergic to all other forms of nutrition except mother's milk, then it would starve. An abortion would be permitted in this case, a potential person, would be justified to save the life of the child, an actual person.
Conservative, Reconstructionist and Reform Judaism are formally opposed to government regulation of abortion. They feel that the decision should rest with the woman, her husband, her doctor and her clergyperson. Some Orthodox authorities agree with this stance. Polls have found up to 90% of American Jews supporting abortion rights.
The New Testament is more permissive than the Old. Paul claims Jesus told him three times, "my grace is sufficient for thee" (II Corinthians 12:8-9), and Christians misinterpret this verse to mean they're free to do as they please--ignoring Jesus' and Paul's other teachings. Pro-lifers need to become secular.
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» How's that extra chapter to your book coming along?
Posted by: morticia
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Posted by: frantic1971 on Sep 28, 2009 7:31 AM
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I would like to know how I can be a volunteer/escort for this clinic. Do I give them a call and offer my services? Any advice would be appreciated!
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» RE: I want to be a volunteer escort--how do I do it?
Posted by: WyrdSister
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Posted by: ladyoracle on Sep 28, 2009 7:48 AM
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Plus that women go to women's clinics for things other than abortions is something protesters should really take to heart.
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Posted by: smf1403 on Sep 28, 2009 8:06 AM
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WHERE IS LAW ENFORCEMENT WHILE THIS IS GOING ON?
AND YES, I AGREE WITH THE COMMENTER WHO SUGGESTED USING THE DEAFENING SOUND DEVICES ON THESE DANGEROUS PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE CLINIC.
IF MEN WERE THE ONES HAVING THE ABORTIONS, WOULD THIS BE GOING ON?
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» RE: THANK YOU FOR DOING THE RIGHT THING
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
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Posted by: dazzle59 on Sep 28, 2009 9:27 AM
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Sep 28, 2009 11:23 AM
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1)If you are pro-life how many children have you adopted/fostered?
2)If you are pro-life how many children with working class mothers that can't afford child-care do you provide free child-care for?
3)If you are pro-life how many times have you been to the childrens ward of xxxx Hospital to read, make clown faces for, provide coffee to the parents, etc. for?
4)If you are pro-life why are you not fighting for quality health-care and education for our children?
5)If you are pro-life why are you fighting for more abused women/children shelters?
Ok so it's just a few things that people who are really "pro-life" might be thinking about!
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» RE: Thank you......
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» RE: Thank you......
Posted by: smccown75
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Posted by: Trixietheduck on Sep 28, 2009 12:04 PM
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Sep 28, 2009 1:00 PM
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Posted by: EddDoerr on Sep 28, 2009 2:06 PM
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Posted by: Lilly on Sep 28, 2009 2:23 PM
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» RE: How Far From Door?
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: How Far From Door?
Posted by: Mbell
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Posted by: tseaview on Sep 28, 2009 5:23 PM
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I know that almost nothing would make me angry enough to use it... but I don't want to push my luck.
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» We need some kind of symbols on clothing: "Do not protect".
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: gGreen on Sep 28, 2009 5:31 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For example, a fetus could be naturally expunged, then used as firewood. The problem with this is that the crying covers the sound of the crackle of the fire for the first few seconds. After that, feel free to roast some marshmallows.
Simple exposure worked well for the Spartans.
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» RE: ?
Posted by: WyrdSister
» You certainly put everyone in our places and scored great points, clearing up a big problem.
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: Mbell on Sep 29, 2009 8:22 AM
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Further info: there was a case heard by the Supreme Court in 2005 affecting protesters.
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Posted by: greeneyes10 on Sep 29, 2009 10:33 AM
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Posted by: AuntBec on Sep 29, 2009 10:35 AM
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Becky
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» RE: Thank You
Posted by: ClinicEscort
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Posted by: Marshalldoc on Sep 29, 2009 1:14 PM
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Posted by: on Sep 29, 2009 6:31 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
working every Saturdays, with an off-duty policeman (both of us guys). We'd work from 7 a.m., until the appointments were completed & the visitor parking lot was empty. (Yes, some of the scheduled visits were abortions, but most were for other medical considerations.)
The screaming voices & rude signs that would drift & wave across the street & over the sidewalks (their legal boundaries) @anyone who was entering (or leaving!) –– & at us –– were quite similar to the recent tea bagger & town meeting's out-of-control hate. To see one's "friends" & fellow townspeople acting in such a way, terrifying the visitors (daughters, wives, fathers, brothers & gran'mas) was pretty awful & I have never forgotten it. Real violence was rare, but the threat of violence was continual –– an energy fed by misunderstanding, wrong-headed religion & the before-mentioned evil (hate). It was a lot of need, focus & long thinking that helped those people (though escorted & protected) walk past those people & into the clinic. It was something I have always admired. (Not to mention the employees & doctors who worked there.)
But, you know, I've never regretted helping or being there ... I just regret & despise the protester's self-righteous willingness to put added fear into people with more important matters on their minds: there was more than enough unease in many of the patients, no additional fears were in order or required.
m. swof.
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Posted by: smccown75 on Sep 30, 2009 8:33 AM
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While I cannot see myself in a position of ever choosing to abort, I choose to offer compassion to those who have made that choice. I don't think it was made easily.
I have a 9 month old baby. When I was carrying him, I was advised to terminate the pregnancy because of the situation with his father. His father was (is, most likely) an abusive drunk, and he promised he would never leave me alone. As it is, I haven't heard from him in over a year and a half, and my son and I live very peacefully.
I was terrified throughout my entire pregnancy, though. If I would not have had the support system that I have, I can easily see how the choice to terminate would have been more appealing. I can see why a woman would make that choice.
I think that if we are going to talk about choices, we should talk about the third option that neither side of the debate likes to mention: Adoption.
From what I can gather, many women who abort do not do so because they are afraid of the pregnancy. They do so because they do not feel equipped for all that comes after giving birth. Meanwhile, there are many people who want to adopt a baby, and would love to support a mother-to-be as she carries the child and prepares for the adoption.
Neither choice, either to terminate or to give up the baby for adoption, would be easy. However, the women I've talked to who have had abortions are haunted by that choice for years. I think we could all agree that there is another option, and there is no harm in talking about it with these women who are...often, very reluctantly...choosing to abort.
The best thing a pro-life group could do is offer these women compassion, not judgment, and really listen to their reasons for making that choice. Then, if it is still possible and it is what they want, help them go through the adoption process, standing with them every step of the way.
Abortion or motherhood are both all or nothing choices. There is another option, which can bring peace to everyone involved.
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» RE: We aren't all crazy
Posted by: ClinicEscort
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Posted by: smccown75 on Sep 30, 2009 8:40 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have to admit that I have a very difficult time with abortion past three months, because I remember feeling my son move, seeing him on the ultrasound, etc...and he looked every bit like a baby, albeit a transparent one.
That said, I think it is still of the utmost importance for pro-life groups to extend compassion to women who are facing an unplanned pregnancy, and understand where they are coming from as they deliberate their options. We need to offer real options, not hateful words, judgment, and criminalizing rhetoric.
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