REPRODUCTIVE JUSTICE  
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Anti-Choice Zealots' Latest Bizarre Ploy

The one good thing about these extremists is that they help reveal the anti-woman, anti-sex agenda of the anti-choice movement.
September 24, 2009  |  
 
 
 
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For those of us who hoped that the attempts to sneak in bans on abortion, hormonal contraception, and IVF under proposed laws called “personhood amendments” would disappear after the first attempt at passing such a law on a ballot initiative was thoroughly trumped at the polls in Colorado, well, I hate to tell you, but the anti-choice extremists aren’t going away. The next new battlefield is Florida, where anti-choicers hope they can use the invisibility of most female reproductive processes to convince the voters that there’s little people lurking inside your neighbor’s ladyparts, even if there’s no biological evidence to support that proposition, and that this law will save the wee mythical people.

Obviously, there’s a good reason for pro-choicers to be alarmed when personhood amendments seem like they’re really going to get onto ballots.  If they pass, that means that anti-choicers not only have a platform to issue challenges to abortion, but also that they have a chance to go after other anti-choice goals, namely pushing for bans on reliable, female-controlled contraception like the birth control pill and the IUD.  Hey, we don’t know that female-controlled contraception doesn’t kill “babies”, since it’s all invisible behind that wall of flesh that separates the uterus from its proper Bible-thumping owners (a wall of flesh most of us call “the woman”), so better to be safe and ban the pill.  Those doctors who say the birth control pill doesn’t work that way can’t be 100% sure, so we can discount their opinions entirely.  Or, that’s the general gist of the argument, anyhow.

Clearly, a large scale challenge not only to abortion but to all of the most effective female-controlled forms of contraception is a very bad thing for women, on the grounds that anti-choicers might succeed and start forcing more women to bear children against their will.  But there is a reason for cautious optimism when it comes to the personhood amendment push.  Personhood amendments are a classic example of a political group overplaying their hand, and in this case, personhood amendments offer a great opportunity to take away the cover of fetus-concern that anti-choicers use to push their real goals of oppressing women and making sex fraught in the hopes people will have less of it.

Regular readers of RH Reality Check are no doubt familiar with the most taxing obstacle for the anti-choice movement in its goal to push its ideology into our laws, which is that they can’t be upfront with the public about what they believe without facing rejection. The organized anti-choice movement is hostile to contraception, and especially hostile to female-controlled contraception.  This gives lie to their claims that they’re indifferent to women’s liberation and sexual behavior, and only interested in saving fetal life.  Actual behavior indicates a pattern of hostility to sexual liberation, from the promotion of abstinence-only programs to the dishonest claims about the safety of the HPV vaccine.  The public is willing to accept that an anti-choicer who is fascinated by fetus life is a good person with a legitimate claim.  They’re not so sympathetic to people who just want to clap chastity belts on everyone and issue permission slips before you get to indulge your sexual desires.

The anti-choice tactic to deal with this problem is, to put it bluntly, to be two-faced.  The face offered to the public is sentimental about fetal life, so that the public assumes that anti-choicers are well-meaning, if a big silly.  The fact that there’s a larger anti-sex agenda is to be kept on the down low.  As I’ve reported before, anti-choice protesters are trained to feign compassion for women and to dissemble about contraception in order to keep up this façade.


Amanda Marcotte co-writes the popular blog Pandagon. She is the author of It's a Jungle Out There: The Feminist Survival Guide to Politically Inhospitable Environments.
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Goodbye Florida
Posted by: ProfBob on Sep 24, 2009 2:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since the world's major problem is overpopulation (Science Daily April 20, 2009) Forbidding contraception by defining as 'human' any sperm or ovum--will quickly eliminate all of Florida's population. Any sperm emitted through nocturnal emissions or masturbation will result in that boy or man committing murder. Likewise any menstruating female will be murdering her ova. In Florida this could likely result in the death penalty. It would also be murder for the sperm donor (read potential fathers) and the ovum donor(read potential mothers) when any fertilized ova do not attach to the placenta. This is the majority of fertilized ova.
I appreciated reading about the morality of contraception and abortion in Book 4 of the popular and well thought out free ebook series 'In Search of Utopia" (http://andgulliverreturns.info) It should be required reading for the short sighted uneducated Floridians who are proposing the contraception ban.

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» RE: Not just that. Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Not just that. Posted by: luzmejor

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It's About MONEY
Posted by: vyckie on Sep 24, 2009 4:25 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was vaguely aware of the money factor in operation during my years as publisher and editor of a “pro-life, pro-family” newspaper. I kept current on all the latest skirmishes in America’s on-going Culture War.

The first time I saw actual pictures of aborted babies ~ all bloody and dismembered with recognizable tiny little baby fingers amongst the horror ~ I had a strong physical reaction which cemented my determination to fight for the unborn. BUT … after a while, I could look at those same pictures and not be much affected. So then, the pro-lifers come out with the partial-birth abortion graphics ~ showing a fully-developed baby ~ delivered except for its head ~ with a pair of scissors stabbed into the base of its skull ~ a vacuum hose is inserted into the resulting hole and the baby’s brains are sucked out ~ the baby goes limp ~ OMG!! I totally freaked! I was SHOCKED out of my apathy and renewed my efforts on the behalf of the unborn. AND I SENT MONEY ~ plenty of it ~ to those pro-life organizations which were on the “front lines” of the battle to rescue the babies. BUT … it wasn’t long before the idea of partial-birth abortion didn’t stir me quite so violently … And a while later, I began to hear about the pain which unborn babies feel during an abortion ~ and there was a campaign to force abortion clinics to inform their clients of the pain their about-to-be-killed babies would suffer ~ and to offer the mother pain-medication for the baby prior to the procedure … As I read the pro-life medical professionals’ expert testimony regarding the evidence that aborted babies feel pain … Well, to tell the truth, by this point, I was beginning to catch on to the escalation-of-horror tactics used by these right-to-life organizations and it just made me mad to realize the manipulation...

It's About MONEY

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» Nice try Posted by: Beck

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Aborticentrism-- the dysfunctional twelve-step program
Posted by: cgregor2 on Sep 24, 2009 4:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's time the fight was carried to their camp. To understand where these poor people are coming from, Google "aborticentrism." A college student could do a thesis on the subject.

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More frightening to me...
Posted by: Word Mix on Sep 24, 2009 4:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
More frightening to me than the lack of sexual freedom is the consequence to society and especially women if we don't maintain freedom of choice for women. Many of these groups that fight against choice want to keep women subjugated to men...in the home, "barefoot and pregnant" as the old saying goes.

The fight isn't just for sexual freedom and choice of abortion, it is freedom and equality as a human being.

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Anti-"abortion" equals "anti-women" . . .
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on Sep 24, 2009 5:47 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You can't describe the reasoning and rationality of the author and abortionist-feminist any more clearly than that, can you?

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Why aren't they trying to ban the condom?
Posted by: paulaH on Sep 24, 2009 6:37 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are against the pill because it prevents a possible life from happening. What do they think condoms do? Why aren't they railing against that? Could it be because MEN use that as birth control?

And, I've always said that if women are murdering babies because they use birth control, men are murdering thousands at a time everytime they ejaculate into a napkin. So women may be murderers because their bodies may reject their eggs on a monthly basis, but men are mass murderers.

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» ban the condom? Posted by: zipper696

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ITA... cept I have a question... kinda OT
Posted by: DaBear on Sep 24, 2009 7:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...dishonest claims about the safety of the HPV vaccine.

I've heard a lot about the "Honest" claims about HPV Vax (Gardisil specifically) and it's disturbing to discover that Gardisil was not and has not been tested on 11 year old girls--the target group for the vax. WTF, man, how the hell am I supposed to feel groovy about an untested vax that only targets 2-4 of the twenty-some odd strains of HPV (and only two have been tested to be actually neutralized out of the four)?

Sometimes I think because we wants a miracle drug so badly we're willing to buy the corporate bullshit just so we can pretend to have it. Not good enough, god dammit.

Anyone have a URL to some real data on Gardicil and the subsequent vax drugs that were supposed to have been better than Gardicil?

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» Not sure if it's true . . . Posted by: dudelette

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Using "abortion" as a litmus test for naming misogynists is wrong.
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 24, 2009 7:55 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are plenty of women who oppose abortion for various reasons. Does that make them anti-women? "Abortion" is yesterday's issue and has no place in politics. Harping on about "abortion" is why Corzine and Deeds are losing to the GOP in this year's gubernatorial races. There will always be anti-choice zealots but until economic populism is put on the table, the anti-choice zealots will remain and grow. And just to set the record straight, I don't support "abortion" personally but I'm not going to object to those who choose it for whatever reason. It just doesn't belong in politics, period.

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» Okay, 1-rater.... Posted by: morticia
» RE: Okay, 1-rater.... Posted by: morticia

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absolute lunacy!!
Posted by: dsmidiman on Sep 24, 2009 8:05 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The hypocrasy within most "pro-life" thinking people is so blatant that I just want to scream!!! Let's do everything we can to make a natural god given pleasure between two people impossible to enjoy because of the possibility of destroying "a living cell" of some sort from developing. Yet more often than not these same people are pro-war thinkers where thousands of innocent men women and children are maimed and killed. Pro Death Penalty people where history has shown that we have mistakenly put to death innocent people. Anti social services people where we leave women and children homeless hungry and left to survive like stray animals on the streets. Pro gun and hunting where we take guns and deliberately go out and kill animals more often than not simply for the "pleasure" of killing them.... I could go on and on. It's INSANE!!

These people are sick in the head!! It's not about the killing of anything to them. It's about "CONTROL". Having the ability to dictate to others what they can and can't do. It's that simple. It is also what is eroding and will eventually kill off the human race all together.

We should divide this planet up into two sections. One section would have the "Control" obssessed people in it and the other would have the rest of us. Then sit back and monitor which side has the biggest crime rate, death rate and worst standard of living. I would say that at some point in time the "Control" side would be gone all together because they would eventually kill each other off in their obssession for "controlling" each other.

It's just INSANE!!

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» RE: absolute lunacy!! Posted by: Ocean tides
» RE: absolute lunacy!! Posted by: Ocean tides

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Florida, again.........
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Sep 24, 2009 10:44 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"...daft enough to think that suppressing ovulation (which is what the birth control pill does) is “abortion”."

1) Aren't these the same people that don't believe in "science", so why do they even have credibility?!?!

2) This is why some species eat their young - too bad their mothers didn't!

3) Maybe everyone that's forced to carry these babies, should put these newborns into the arms of everyone of these "pro-lifers" and then let's see if they don't change their tune!

4) Maybe we should all just show up at their next meeting and scream "YOU LIE!", every time they open their mouths!!!!

5) Well, it is Florida, and the old people are getting a little slow on the uptake - remember 2000 & GWB!!!!

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Actually...
Posted by: CovertRage on Sep 24, 2009 11:32 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"I’m going to charitably assume that most of the 25% of people who use contraception and voted against it were simply confused, with a smattering of blatant hypocrites to round it out."

... there are a whole lot more hypocrites suffering Stockholm Syndrome than we realize. I am always stunned by the number of women made so easily to feel guilty for wanting to exercise any control over their bodies. Many women who want the responisibility of how and when they can use birth control also don't want to anger or otherwise offend the men in their lives, or the other women whose opinions these twisted enablers of their own oppression value and accept as canon. These craven cowards have managed to keep women chained at the uterus to the 1st century. They still can't reconcile the desire to no longer be chattel to actually not being chattel. We still fight that disonance.

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» RE: Actually... Posted by: Cathyblj

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Don't forget bat-crap crazy outlier Arizona...
Posted by: chetdude on Sep 24, 2009 2:28 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The far-right dominated Legislature here in bat-crap crazy right-wing Arizona just passed this little gem:

Among other provisions, the bills create a 24-hour waiting period to get an abortion, require physicians to perform the procedure, and allow pharmacists and other health-care professionals to refuse to provide contraception. They also require that parents provide notarized consent for their minor children to get abortions.

The Republican-controlled Legislature passed the laws this year, and Republican Gov. Jan Brewer signed them into law. They are scheduled to go into effect Sept. 30.

Planned Parenthood filed suit in Maricopa County Superior Court, alleging that the laws impose an undue burden on women seeking abortions, in violation of a section of the Arizona Constitution protecting their right to privacy.

Under current law, the procedure can be provided by nurse practitioners, who perform more than half of all abortions at some Planned Parenthood locations, according to the group. The new laws prohibit nurse practitioners from performing abortions, requiring women to see a physician. That will limit access to abortions, which the suit says violates the Arizona Constitution's pledge not to disturb a person's "private affairs."

Another provision of the laws requires women to see a physician 24 hours before an abortion to receive information on risks and alternatives. As a result, women will have to make two trips to get an abortion.

Lawyers for Planned Parenthood said those provisions combine to create an unconstitutional infringement on a woman's right to privacy. One of the laws disturbs a woman's private affairs by requiring her to make two trips, the lawsuit says, because the first trip is to provide her with information that could be given over the phone or online.
-------
This is a strange and scary place...

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"The only moral abortion is MY abortion"; anti-choice women who justify their own abortions
Posted by: Beck on Sep 25, 2009 6:19 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html

I'm indebted to another alternet poster a few years back for this. It's incredible: the stories of anti-choice women who have abortions anyway and justify theirs as the only possible choice under their circumstances. The beginning (but be sure to read the whole thing):

"The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion"

When the Anti-Choice Choose

By Joyce Arthur

Copyright © September, 2000

Abortion is a highly personal decision that many women are sure they'll never have to think about until they're suddenly faced with an unexpected pregnancy. But this can happen to anyone, including women who are strongly anti-choice. So what does an anti-choice woman do when she experiences an unwanted pregnancy herself? Often, she will grin and bear it, so to speak, but frequently, she opts for the solution she would deny to other women -- abortion.

In the spring of 2000, I collected the following anecdotes directly from abortion doctors and other clinic staff in North America, Australia, and Europe. The stories are presented in the providers' own words, with minor editing for grammar, clarity, and brevity. Names have been omitted to protect privacy.

"I have done several abortions on women who have regularly picketed my clinics, including a 16 year old schoolgirl who came back to picket the day after her abortion, about three years ago. During her whole stay at the clinic, we felt that she was not quite right, but there were no real warning bells. She insisted that the abortion was her idea and assured us that all was OK. She went through the procedure very smoothly and was discharged with no problems. A quite routine operation. Next morning she was with her mother and several school mates in front of the clinic with the usual anti posters and chants. It appears that she got the abortion she needed and still displayed the appropriate anti views expected of her by her parents, teachers, and peers." (Physician, Australia)

"I've had several cases over the years in which the anti-abortion patient had rationalized in one way or another that her case was the only exception, but the one that really made an impression was the college senior who was the president of her campus Right-to-Life organization, meaning that she had worked very hard in that organization for several years. As I was completing her procedure, I asked what she planned to do about her high office in the RTL organization. Her response was a wide-eyed, 'You're not going to tell them, are you!?' When assured that I was not, she breathed a sigh of relief, explaining how important that position was to her and how she wouldn't want this to interfere with it." (Physician, Texas)

"In 1990, in the Boston area, Operation Rescue and other groups were regularly blockading the clinics, and many of us went every Saturday morning for months to help women and staff get in. As a result, we knew many of the 'antis' by face. One morning, a woman who had been a regular 'sidewalk counselor' went into the clinic with a young woman who looked like she was 16-17, and obviously her daughter. When the mother came out about an hour later, I had to go up and ask her if her daughter's situation had caused her to change her mind. 'I don't expect you to understand my daughter's situation!' she angrily replied. The following Saturday, she was back, pleading with women entering the clinic not to 'murder their babies.'" (Clinic escort, Massachusetts)

"We too have seen our share of anti-choice women, ones the counselors usually grit their teeth over. Just last week a woman announced loudly enough for all to hear in the recovery room, that she thought abortion should be illegal. Amazingly, this was her second abortion within the last few months, having gotten pregnant again within a month of the first abortion."

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South Dakota is always trying to outlaw abortion, but has the two counties with the highest infant
Posted by: Beck on Sep 25, 2009 6:38 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
. . .mortality rates. IT HAS THE TWO COUNTIES WITH THE HIGHEST INFANT MORTALITY RATES IN THE NATION.

Both are on Indian reservations.

Does this make sense to you? Me, neither.

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Every sperm is sacred
Posted by: EJ on Sep 26, 2009 10:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wonder how many of these right-to-lifers who think masturbation and contraception are murder realize that even when conception does occur, only one sperm out of millions becomes part of the new life--or that if there weren't millions of sperm ejaculated each time, conception would never occur because 1) sperm are stupid and will try to fertilize anything, 2) a large number of sperm die before they ever reach the egg, and 3) a woman has two ovaries, but usually only ovulates one egg, meaning that even if all the sperm went into the fallopian tubes, half would be going to the wrong one.

Oh, and if sex takes place when the woman is not ovulating, or very near to ovulating, pregnancy cannot occur because there is no egg to be fertilized--and it isn't obvious in humans when ovulation occurs, so sex is, of necessity, a frequent occurrence, done for pleasure more than anything else (this is also the case in a few other species). Also, if more than one sperm gets into the egg at a time, there will be too many chromosomes and the fertilized egg will die.

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A Question
Posted by: EJ on Sep 26, 2009 10:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is slightly off-topic, but maybe someone can answer this question for me.

Why is it considered abortion for a dead fetus to be removed from a woman's body? I've always thought of abortion as a procedure that removes a developing fetus from a woman's body before it is able to live outside the womb. If the fetus is dead, it is no longer developing and has zero chance of turning into a thinking, breathing, functioning person. Dead is dead, so why is this considered abortion?

I'm pro-choice, so some pro-lifers might say I just don't get it, but it just doesn't make sense to me.

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» RE: A Question Posted by: AuntBec

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But what would "personhood" do to the legal fiction...
Posted by: diof09 on Oct 19, 2009 3:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...that CORPORATIONS are considered legal entities with personhood rights? (I know, for better or for worse). Perhaps this could be used to rewrite corporate law as well.

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Alternet Comments:

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Goodbye Florida
Posted by: ProfBob on Sep 24, 2009 2:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since the world's major problem is overpopulation (Science Daily April 20, 2009) Forbidding contraception by defining as 'human' any sperm or ovum--will quickly eliminate all of Florida's population. Any sperm emitted through nocturnal emissions or masturbation will result in that boy or man committing murder. Likewise any menstruating female will be murdering her ova. In Florida this could likely result in the death penalty. It would also be murder for the sperm donor (read potential fathers) and the ovum donor(read potential mothers) when any fertilized ova do not attach to the placenta. This is the majority of fertilized ova.
I appreciated reading about the morality of contraception and abortion in Book 4 of the popular and well thought out free ebook series 'In Search of Utopia" (http://andgulliverreturns.info) It should be required reading for the short sighted uneducated Floridians who are proposing the contraception ban.

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» RE: Not just that. Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Not just that. Posted by: luzmejor

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It's About MONEY
Posted by: vyckie on Sep 24, 2009 4:25 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was vaguely aware of the money factor in operation during my years as publisher and editor of a “pro-life, pro-family” newspaper. I kept current on all the latest skirmishes in America’s on-going Culture War.

The first time I saw actual pictures of aborted babies ~ all bloody and dismembered with recognizable tiny little baby fingers amongst the horror ~ I had a strong physical reaction which cemented my determination to fight for the unborn. BUT … after a while, I could look at those same pictures and not be much affected. So then, the pro-lifers come out with the partial-birth abortion graphics ~ showing a fully-developed baby ~ delivered except for its head ~ with a pair of scissors stabbed into the base of its skull ~ a vacuum hose is inserted into the resulting hole and the baby’s brains are sucked out ~ the baby goes limp ~ OMG!! I totally freaked! I was SHOCKED out of my apathy and renewed my efforts on the behalf of the unborn. AND I SENT MONEY ~ plenty of it ~ to those pro-life organizations which were on the “front lines” of the battle to rescue the babies. BUT … it wasn’t long before the idea of partial-birth abortion didn’t stir me quite so violently … And a while later, I began to hear about the pain which unborn babies feel during an abortion ~ and there was a campaign to force abortion clinics to inform their clients of the pain their about-to-be-killed babies would suffer ~ and to offer the mother pain-medication for the baby prior to the procedure … As I read the pro-life medical professionals’ expert testimony regarding the evidence that aborted babies feel pain … Well, to tell the truth, by this point, I was beginning to catch on to the escalation-of-horror tactics used by these right-to-life organizations and it just made me mad to realize the manipulation...

It's About MONEY

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» Nice try Posted by: Beck

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Aborticentrism-- the dysfunctional twelve-step program
Posted by: cgregor2 on Sep 24, 2009 4:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's time the fight was carried to their camp. To understand where these poor people are coming from, Google "aborticentrism." A college student could do a thesis on the subject.

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More frightening to me...
Posted by: Word Mix on Sep 24, 2009 4:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
More frightening to me than the lack of sexual freedom is the consequence to society and especially women if we don't maintain freedom of choice for women. Many of these groups that fight against choice want to keep women subjugated to men...in the home, "barefoot and pregnant" as the old saying goes.

The fight isn't just for sexual freedom and choice of abortion, it is freedom and equality as a human being.

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Anti-"abortion" equals "anti-women" . . .
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on Sep 24, 2009 5:47 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You can't describe the reasoning and rationality of the author and abortionist-feminist any more clearly than that, can you?

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Why aren't they trying to ban the condom?
Posted by: paulaH on Sep 24, 2009 6:37 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are against the pill because it prevents a possible life from happening. What do they think condoms do? Why aren't they railing against that? Could it be because MEN use that as birth control?

And, I've always said that if women are murdering babies because they use birth control, men are murdering thousands at a time everytime they ejaculate into a napkin. So women may be murderers because their bodies may reject their eggs on a monthly basis, but men are mass murderers.

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» ban the condom? Posted by: zipper696

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ITA... cept I have a question... kinda OT
Posted by: DaBear on Sep 24, 2009 7:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...dishonest claims about the safety of the HPV vaccine.

I've heard a lot about the "Honest" claims about HPV Vax (Gardisil specifically) and it's disturbing to discover that Gardisil was not and has not been tested on 11 year old girls--the target group for the vax. WTF, man, how the hell am I supposed to feel groovy about an untested vax that only targets 2-4 of the twenty-some odd strains of HPV (and only two have been tested to be actually neutralized out of the four)?

Sometimes I think because we wants a miracle drug so badly we're willing to buy the corporate bullshit just so we can pretend to have it. Not good enough, god dammit.

Anyone have a URL to some real data on Gardicil and the subsequent vax drugs that were supposed to have been better than Gardicil?

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» Not sure if it's true . . . Posted by: dudelette

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Using "abortion" as a litmus test for naming misogynists is wrong.
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 24, 2009 7:55 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are plenty of women who oppose abortion for various reasons. Does that make them anti-women? "Abortion" is yesterday's issue and has no place in politics. Harping on about "abortion" is why Corzine and Deeds are losing to the GOP in this year's gubernatorial races. There will always be anti-choice zealots but until economic populism is put on the table, the anti-choice zealots will remain and grow. And just to set the record straight, I don't support "abortion" personally but I'm not going to object to those who choose it for whatever reason. It just doesn't belong in politics, period.

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» Okay, 1-rater.... Posted by: morticia
» RE: Okay, 1-rater.... Posted by: morticia

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absolute lunacy!!
Posted by: dsmidiman on Sep 24, 2009 8:05 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The hypocrasy within most "pro-life" thinking people is so blatant that I just want to scream!!! Let's do everything we can to make a natural god given pleasure between two people impossible to enjoy because of the possibility of destroying "a living cell" of some sort from developing. Yet more often than not these same people are pro-war thinkers where thousands of innocent men women and children are maimed and killed. Pro Death Penalty people where history has shown that we have mistakenly put to death innocent people. Anti social services people where we leave women and children homeless hungry and left to survive like stray animals on the streets. Pro gun and hunting where we take guns and deliberately go out and kill animals more often than not simply for the "pleasure" of killing them.... I could go on and on. It's INSANE!!

These people are sick in the head!! It's not about the killing of anything to them. It's about "CONTROL". Having the ability to dictate to others what they can and can't do. It's that simple. It is also what is eroding and will eventually kill off the human race all together.

We should divide this planet up into two sections. One section would have the "Control" obssessed people in it and the other would have the rest of us. Then sit back and monitor which side has the biggest crime rate, death rate and worst standard of living. I would say that at some point in time the "Control" side would be gone all together because they would eventually kill each other off in their obssession for "controlling" each other.

It's just INSANE!!

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» RE: absolute lunacy!! Posted by: Ocean tides
» RE: absolute lunacy!! Posted by: Ocean tides

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Florida, again.........
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Sep 24, 2009 10:44 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"...daft enough to think that suppressing ovulation (which is what the birth control pill does) is “abortion”."

1) Aren't these the same people that don't believe in "science", so why do they even have credibility?!?!

2) This is why some species eat their young - too bad their mothers didn't!

3) Maybe everyone that's forced to carry these babies, should put these newborns into the arms of everyone of these "pro-lifers" and then let's see if they don't change their tune!

4) Maybe we should all just show up at their next meeting and scream "YOU LIE!", every time they open their mouths!!!!

5) Well, it is Florida, and the old people are getting a little slow on the uptake - remember 2000 & GWB!!!!

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Actually...
Posted by: CovertRage on Sep 24, 2009 11:32 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"I’m going to charitably assume that most of the 25% of people who use contraception and voted against it were simply confused, with a smattering of blatant hypocrites to round it out."

... there are a whole lot more hypocrites suffering Stockholm Syndrome than we realize. I am always stunned by the number of women made so easily to feel guilty for wanting to exercise any control over their bodies. Many women who want the responisibility of how and when they can use birth control also don't want to anger or otherwise offend the men in their lives, or the other women whose opinions these twisted enablers of their own oppression value and accept as canon. These craven cowards have managed to keep women chained at the uterus to the 1st century. They still can't reconcile the desire to no longer be chattel to actually not being chattel. We still fight that disonance.

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» RE: Actually... Posted by: Cathyblj

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Don't forget bat-crap crazy outlier Arizona...
Posted by: chetdude on Sep 24, 2009 2:28 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The far-right dominated Legislature here in bat-crap crazy right-wing Arizona just passed this little gem:

Among other provisions, the bills create a 24-hour waiting period to get an abortion, require physicians to perform the procedure, and allow pharmacists and other health-care professionals to refuse to provide contraception. They also require that parents provide notarized consent for their minor children to get abortions.

The Republican-controlled Legislature passed the laws this year, and Republican Gov. Jan Brewer signed them into law. They are scheduled to go into effect Sept. 30.

Planned Parenthood filed suit in Maricopa County Superior Court, alleging that the laws impose an undue burden on women seeking abortions, in violation of a section of the Arizona Constitution protecting their right to privacy.

Under current law, the procedure can be provided by nurse practitioners, who perform more than half of all abortions at some Planned Parenthood locations, according to the group. The new laws prohibit nurse practitioners from performing abortions, requiring women to see a physician. That will limit access to abortions, which the suit says violates the Arizona Constitution's pledge not to disturb a person's "private affairs."

Another provision of the laws requires women to see a physician 24 hours before an abortion to receive information on risks and alternatives. As a result, women will have to make two trips to get an abortion.

Lawyers for Planned Parenthood said those provisions combine to create an unconstitutional infringement on a woman's right to privacy. One of the laws disturbs a woman's private affairs by requiring her to make two trips, the lawsuit says, because the first trip is to provide her with information that could be given over the phone or online.
-------
This is a strange and scary place...

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"The only moral abortion is MY abortion"; anti-choice women who justify their own abortions
Posted by: Beck on Sep 25, 2009 6:19 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html

I'm indebted to another alternet poster a few years back for this. It's incredible: the stories of anti-choice women who have abortions anyway and justify theirs as the only possible choice under their circumstances. The beginning (but be sure to read the whole thing):

"The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion"

When the Anti-Choice Choose

By Joyce Arthur

Copyright © September, 2000

Abortion is a highly personal decision that many women are sure they'll never have to think about until they're suddenly faced with an unexpected pregnancy. But this can happen to anyone, including women who are strongly anti-choice. So what does an anti-choice woman do when she experiences an unwanted pregnancy herself? Often, she will grin and bear it, so to speak, but frequently, she opts for the solution she would deny to other women -- abortion.

In the spring of 2000, I collected the following anecdotes directly from abortion doctors and other clinic staff in North America, Australia, and Europe. The stories are presented in the providers' own words, with minor editing for grammar, clarity, and brevity. Names have been omitted to protect privacy.

"I have done several abortions on women who have regularly picketed my clinics, including a 16 year old schoolgirl who came back to picket the day after her abortion, about three years ago. During her whole stay at the clinic, we felt that she was not quite right, but there were no real warning bells. She insisted that the abortion was her idea and assured us that all was OK. She went through the procedure very smoothly and was discharged with no problems. A quite routine operation. Next morning she was with her mother and several school mates in front of the clinic with the usual anti posters and chants. It appears that she got the abortion she needed and still displayed the appropriate anti views expected of her by her parents, teachers, and peers." (Physician, Australia)

"I've had several cases over the years in which the anti-abortion patient had rationalized in one way or another that her case was the only exception, but the one that really made an impression was the college senior who was the president of her campus Right-to-Life organization, meaning that she had worked very hard in that organization for several years. As I was completing her procedure, I asked what she planned to do about her high office in the RTL organization. Her response was a wide-eyed, 'You're not going to tell them, are you!?' When assured that I was not, she breathed a sigh of relief, explaining how important that position was to her and how she wouldn't want this to interfere with it." (Physician, Texas)

"In 1990, in the Boston area, Operation Rescue and other groups were regularly blockading the clinics, and many of us went every Saturday morning for months to help women and staff get in. As a result, we knew many of the 'antis' by face. One morning, a woman who had been a regular 'sidewalk counselor' went into the clinic with a young woman who looked like she was 16-17, and obviously her daughter. When the mother came out about an hour later, I had to go up and ask her if her daughter's situation had caused her to change her mind. 'I don't expect you to understand my daughter's situation!' she angrily replied. The following Saturday, she was back, pleading with women entering the clinic not to 'murder their babies.'" (Clinic escort, Massachusetts)

"We too have seen our share of anti-choice women, ones the counselors usually grit their teeth over. Just last week a woman announced loudly enough for all to hear in the recovery room, that she thought abortion should be illegal. Amazingly, this was her second abortion within the last few months, having gotten pregnant again within a month of the first abortion."

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South Dakota is always trying to outlaw abortion, but has the two counties with the highest infant
Posted by: Beck on Sep 25, 2009 6:38 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
. . .mortality rates. IT HAS THE TWO COUNTIES WITH THE HIGHEST INFANT MORTALITY RATES IN THE NATION.

Both are on Indian reservations.

Does this make sense to you? Me, neither.

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Every sperm is sacred
Posted by: EJ on Sep 26, 2009 10:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wonder how many of these right-to-lifers who think masturbation and contraception are murder realize that even when conception does occur, only one sperm out of millions becomes part of the new life--or that if there weren't millions of sperm ejaculated each time, conception would never occur because 1) sperm are stupid and will try to fertilize anything, 2) a large number of sperm die before they ever reach the egg, and 3) a woman has two ovaries, but usually only ovulates one egg, meaning that even if all the sperm went into the fallopian tubes, half would be going to the wrong one.

Oh, and if sex takes place when the woman is not ovulating, or very near to ovulating, pregnancy cannot occur because there is no egg to be fertilized--and it isn't obvious in humans when ovulation occurs, so sex is, of necessity, a frequent occurrence, done for pleasure more than anything else (this is also the case in a few other species). Also, if more than one sperm gets into the egg at a time, there will be too many chromosomes and the fertilized egg will die.

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A Question
Posted by: EJ on Sep 26, 2009 10:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is slightly off-topic, but maybe someone can answer this question for me.

Why is it considered abortion for a dead fetus to be removed from a woman's body? I've always thought of abortion as a procedure that removes a developing fetus from a woman's body before it is able to live outside the womb. If the fetus is dead, it is no longer developing and has zero chance of turning into a thinking, breathing, functioning person. Dead is dead, so why is this considered abortion?

I'm pro-choice, so some pro-lifers might say I just don't get it, but it just doesn't make sense to me.

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» RE: A Question Posted by: AuntBec

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But what would "personhood" do to the legal fiction...
Posted by: diof09 on Oct 19, 2009 3:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...that CORPORATIONS are considered legal entities with personhood rights? (I know, for better or for worse). Perhaps this could be used to rewrite corporate law as well.

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