COMMENTS: 141
Why Is a Leading Feminist Organization Lending Its Name to Support Escalation in Afghanistan?
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Sadly, as horrifying as the status of women in Afghanistan may sound to those of us who live in the West, the biggest problems faced by Afghan women are not related to patriarchy. Their biggest problem is war.
More than 2,000 civilians were killed in Afghanistan in 2008. And disastrous air strikes like the one in Farah province in May that killed an estimated 120 people -- many of them women and children -- are pushing the death toll ever higher. Afghans who survive these attacks often flee to cities, where overcrowded refugee camps strain to accommodate them. Living in tents without food, water and often blankets, the mortality rate soars.
For those who do not flee, life is not better. One in three Afghans suffers from severe poverty. With a 1 in 55 chance of mothers surviving delivery, Afghanistan has been, and still, is the second most dangerous place for women to give birth. Afghan infants still face a 25 percent risk of dying before their fifth birthdays. These are the consequences of war.
In addition, in the eight years since the U.S. invasion, opium production has exploded by 4,400 percent, making Afghanistan the world capital of opium. The violence of the drug mafia now poses greater danger to Afghanistan and its women than the rule of the Taliban.
Some of the biggest drug-traffickers are part of the U.S. puppet regime. To make matters worse, corruption in the Afghan government has never been so prevalent -- even under the Taliban. Now, even Western sources say that only pennies of every dollar spent on aid reach the people who need it.
If coalition forces are really concerned about women, these are the problems that must be addressed. The military establishment claims that it must win the military victory first, and then the U.S. will take care of humanitarian needs. But they have it backward.
Improve living conditions and security will improve. Focus on security at the expense of humanitarian goals, and coalition forces will accomplish neither. The first step toward improving people's lives is a negotiated settlement to end the war.
In our conversations arguing this point, we are told that the U.S. cannot leave Afghanistan because of what will happen to women if they go. Let us be clear: Women are being gang raped, brutalized and killed in Afghanistan. Forced marriages continue, and more women than ever are being forced into prostitution -- often to meet the demand of foreign troops.
The U.S. presence in Afghanistan is doing nothing to protect Afghan women. The level of self-immolation among women was never as high as it is now. When there is no justice for women, they find no other way out but suicide.
Feminists and other humanitarians should learn from history. This isn't the first time the welfare of women has been trotted out as a pretext for imperialist military aggression.
Columbia Professor Lila Abu-Lughod, a woman of Palestinian descent, writes: "We need to be suspicious when neat cultural icons are plastered over messier historical and political narratives; so we need to be wary when Lord Cromer in British-ruled Egypt, French ladies in Algeria, and Laura Bush, all with military troops behind them, claim to be saving or liberating Muslim women."
Feminists around the world must refuse to allow the good name of feminism to be manipulated to provide political cover for yet another war of aggression.
The Feminist Majority Foundation would do well to heed the demand of dissident Member of Parliament Malalai Joya, representing Farah province, who was kicked out of the parliament last year for courageously speaking out. Addressing a press conference in the wake of the U.S. bombing of her province she was clear: "We ask for an end to the occupation of Afghanistan and a stop to such tragic war crimes."
That should be the first action item for the Feminist Majority Foundation's Campaign for Afghan Women and Girls.
Mariam Rawi is a member of the Revolutionary Association of Women of Afghanistan writing under a pseudonym.
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Posted by: SekhmetsatRa on Jul 8, 2009 2:54 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» with respect, dragging stone-agers kicking and screaming is unlikely to help women
Posted by: Suzon
» RE: Feminists stand up for ALL women
Posted by: cplot
» RE: Feminists stand up for ALL women
Posted by: EncinoM
» UN peacekeepers to correct the US blunders
Posted by: cplot
» RE: UN peacekeepers to correct the US blunders
Posted by: EncinoM
» With respect, you're an idiot
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Feminists stand up for ALL women
Posted by: hilaryuk
» RE: Feminists stand up for ALL women
Posted by: progressive-life
» Where in our Constitution is it our responsibility?
Posted by: CRaPWHiSPeReR
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Posted by: Suzon on Jul 8, 2009 2:57 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Though the issue is serious, there's not much of a dilemma, really. Especially if those non-Taliban warlords are still being supplied with Viagra.
Is it just a coincidence that the US and the UK have the biggest military budgets, are the world's major manufacturers of arms and have a long and shameful history of waging war?
If only! It's that corporation thing again, isn't it? In the UK they support (blackmail) the monarchy and in the US they buy the politicians with campaign contributions.
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Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Jul 8, 2009 4:33 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: no questions are rendered to the all-important, ever-omnipotent military-industrial complex
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: For them, it was never about women but about money and power.
Posted by: Reverend Bookburn
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Posted by: DrBrian on Jul 8, 2009 4:39 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: It's the culture!
Posted by: sunnywater
» RE: It's the culture!
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» I'm failing to see what your reply has to do with DrBrian's comment
Posted by: CRaPWHiSPeReR
» RE: It's the culture!
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
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Posted by: tedrowe on Jul 8, 2009 4:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: What does it mean to liberate Afghanistan?
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Bravo!
Posted by: CRaPWHiSPeReR
» RE: The height of emperial hubris
Posted by: sunnywater
» Imperial
Posted by: leafsong1
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Posted by: PaulK on Jul 8, 2009 6:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Perhaps the Mexican smuggling cartels have set a good example recently in liberating women? Pay them a million dollars and they will set one kidnapped woman free? Have the cartels cut back on forced prostitution?
So, according to one story, a field agent successfully bought great loyalty from one local warlord by giving away a few Viagra tablets. Drugs for drugs! The warlord was completely satisfied with his four wives, and apparently all was happy in feminist Afghanistan.
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» RE: Dianne Feinstein ramped up the war in Mexico
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
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Posted by: dimityrose on Jul 8, 2009 6:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Fortress Embassy
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
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Posted by: Benn_Miller on Jul 8, 2009 6:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: What about the kind hearted boys and men in Afghanistan?
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
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Posted by: aahpat on Jul 8, 2009 7:02 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a wise man once sang:
War! What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing!
There are real solutions for Afghanistan that could lead to quick and significant positive change for the economy and thus the people of Afghanistan. Without firing a shot or putting another pair of boots on the ground we could cut as much as 70% of the Taliban's funding.
Poppy for Medicine
Is a program for diverting the opium, that farmers today are dependent upon for sustenance, to a legal medicine producing market.
Military experts say that the Taliban get as much as 70% of their funding to buy bullets, bombs and suicide bombers from the opium trade. Distribution and protection.
The medical diversion of opium is only half the issue. It will not succeed unless the nations of the world come together on a program to free the current global population of addicts from their dependence on the $ 320-billion global drug black market. The Taliban are only the supply. We need also to take the demand population of addicts away from the Taliban.
The fastest and most responsible way to take the addict population away from the Taliban, and other radical organizations that use illegal drugs to subsidize their violent anarchy, is to medically regulate addiction. The Swiss have a heroin maintenance program that takes addicts out of the black market economy altogether. Addicts no longer are the sales force to new potential addicts. Swiss heroin model reporting benefits
The current global black market for non-addictive substances could have the criminals, cartels and terrorists regulated out of them.
Regulated intoxicant drug markets would reduce crime victimization in poverty oppressed communities around the world. Fewer dollars would leave local economies making the communities stronger. Fewer children would have access to drug sales when sales are under responsible regulated adult supervision rather than the addict dealers and gangsters of today.
Taxes on these billions of dollars in consumer demand can go to adequately fund drug rehab.
Getting back to Afghanistan. Legal industrial hemp could give Afghan farmers 3-4 harvests a year quickly. This durable fiber plant would immediately supply the growth of the textile industry that has long existed in Afghanistan.
Rebuilding the Afghan economy is the best way to advance the rights of women and all the people. fighting to end the war on drugs is the best way to do that.
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Posted by: Beck on Jul 8, 2009 7:08 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"In 1997, The Feminist Majority launched the Campaign to Stop Gender Apartheid in Afghanistan to urge the US government and the U.N. to do everything in their power to restore the human rights of Afghan women and girls. Chaired by Mavis Leno, the Feminist Majority Foundation's campaign has brought together more than 200 leading human rights and women's organizations to condemn the Taliban's human rights abuses against women and girls and to put pressure on the US and UN to end gender apartheid in Afghanistan.
"The Campaign has been successful in increasing public awareness about the plight of women and girls in Afghanistan, preventing US and UN recognition of the Taliban, increasing the admission of Afghan women and girls as refugees, increasing humanitarian aid to the region and pressuring UNOCAL, a California oil company to abandon its plans for an Afghan oil and gas pipeline which would have produced over $100 million in royalties for the Taliban.
"With the fall of the Taliban regime, the Feminist Majority Foundation began working to convey to the world that women are an essential part of the solution for the future of Afghanistan . In 2002, the Feminist Majority Foundation intensified its nationwide public education campaign - renaming it the Campaign For Afghan Women and Girls - to win the full and permanent restoration of women's rights, promote the leadership of women in the planning and governing of post-Taliban Afghanistan, increase and monitor the provision of emergency and reconstruction assistance to women and girls, urge the expansion of peacekeeping forces, and support the Afghan Ministry for Women's Affairs, the Afghan Independent Rights Commission and Afghan women-led non-governmental organizations (NGOs)."
Just google these words :
Feminist Majority Foundation's Campaign for Afghan Women and Girls.
So "That is why it was so discouraging to learn that the Feminist Majority Foundation has lent its good name -- and the good name of feminism in general -- to advocate for further troop escalation and war."? yes, I guess the FMO "has lent" its good name, if you count something that began in the Clinton administration to respond to the Taliban as coming under the tense "has lent". That's not what the writers meant to imply, obviously. They meant this to appear as though this just happened, in support of THIS war and THESE forces. And they have to know that this is flat-out wrong.
Anyhow, the "f" word in the title is going to please the advertisers. It gets lots of clicks.
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» Everything in their power does not include invasion, occupation
Posted by: leafsong1
» Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: cplot
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: cplot
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: cplot
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: cplot
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: cplot
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: cplot
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: cplot
» Dishonest and conflicting points of view
Posted by: EncinoM
» Dishonorable and disgusting points of view
Posted by: cplot
» You begin with a lie...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: You begin with a lie...
Posted by: cplot
» RE: You begin with a lie...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: You begin with a lie...
Posted by: cplot
» RE: You begin with a lie...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: You begin with a lie...
Posted by: cplot
» RE: You begin with a lie...
Posted by: EncinoM
» Re: EncinoM the lies are all yours (and your cohorts)
Posted by: cplot
» From one Disjointed Argument to the Next
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: From one Disjointed Argument to the Next
Posted by: cplot
» RE: From one Disjointed Argument to the Next
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: From one Disjointed Argument to the Next
Posted by: cplot
» RE: From one Disjointed Argument to the Next
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: From one Disjointed Argument to the Next
Posted by: cplot
» RE: From one Disjointed Argument to the Next
Posted by: cplot
» RE: From one Disjointed Argument to the Next
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: From one Disjointed Argument to the Next
Posted by: cplot
» RE: From one Disjointed Argument to the Next
Posted by: cplot
» RE: Dishonest and conflicting points of view
Posted by: cplot
» More lies and dishonesty....
Posted by: EncinoM
» Come on...
Posted by: EncinoM
» Was it that unreasonable for them to ask for some evidence?
Posted by: suprmark
» The point is, this movement started BEFORE the war started, in l997, and shouldn't stop because
Posted by: Beck
» RE: The point is, this movement started BEFORE the war started, in l997, and shouldn't stop because
Posted by: cplot
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Posted by: aahpat on Jul 8, 2009 7:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Women still are big. And prioritize. And sometimes invent entire premises for articles.
Posted by: Beck
» And some like Beck ruin it for women by campaigning for MIC puppets like Obama.
Posted by: CarlaWaters
» I'd ask what you mean Beck
Posted by: aahpat
» RE: Women used to be big
Posted by: laoma
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Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey on Jul 8, 2009 7:34 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» The majority of war casualties are non-combat
Posted by: Defenestrator
» RE: The majority of war casualties are non-combat
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» RE: The majority of war casualties are non-combat
Posted by: sureshot45
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Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey on Jul 8, 2009 7:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There isn't even any economic leverage in this case, as there might be with most of the misogynist Muslim societies. Afghanistan has no oil and produces absolutely nothing that developed countries need or want, unless you count opium and heroin.
This is essentially a call for slavery without war.
But yeah, let's all sit around drinking herbal tea and talking about feminism.
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» RE: Let's sit around and talk about feminism. That'll work.
Posted by: cplot
» You miss the point. What WILL work?
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» RE: You miss the point. What WILL work?
Posted by: cplot
» RE: You miss the point. What WILL work?
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» RE: You miss the point. What WILL work?
Posted by: cplot
» RE: You miss the point. What WILL work?
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» What will work? The original campaign that the Feminist Majority founded, as conveniently left out
Posted by: Beck
» RE: What will work? The original campaign that the Feminist Majority founded, as conveniently left
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
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Posted by: Defenestrator on Jul 8, 2009 8:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
RAWA opposes US occupation
Most polls show that Afghans want better government, but that they do not trust the US to "liberate" them without killing huge numbers of civilians.
There are ways to help that do not involve bombs.
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» "There are ways to help that do not involve bombs."
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» I read your RAWA statement, and it calls for WAR and REVOLT!
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» It does not
Posted by: mjglow
» It says "rise up," so what does that mean?
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» RE: It says "rise up," so what does that mean?
Posted by: Defenestrator
» RE: It says "rise up," so what does that mean?
Posted by: mjglow
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 8, 2009 8:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Well said and I totally agree Anna!
Posted by: Quist
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Posted by: donal1944 on Jul 8, 2009 9:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And then tell them to go for it.
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» Tsk, tsk. You are calling for WAR!
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» Not at all
Posted by: laoma
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Posted by: sallyport on Jul 8, 2009 9:44 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» They did not "swallow" a reason for going to war. The war was years away from starting when
Posted by: Beck
» RE: They did not "swallow" a reason for going to war. The war was years away from starting when
Posted by: sallyport
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Posted by: Illiteratilumen on Jul 8, 2009 10:08 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have no more of a moral obligation to these women than we do to make sure that every person in India wears his or her seatbelt. Surely many thousands of traffic deaths occur in India that could be easily prevented if we were to dispatch a safety patrol to that subcontinent and back them up with a few divisions of troops just in case the locals get unruly.
If you want to stay on the subject of women's rights why don't we send the Marines in to occupy China or even the whole of southeast Asia to combat the rampant kidnapping and enslavement of women and girls in those areas? Surely that would be a just and noble action to further the cause of women's rights.
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» We bear no responsibility? Do you know Afghanistan's history?
Posted by: Defenestrator
» We bear some responsibility for Afghanistan's mess, yes...
Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: We bear some responsibility for Afghanistan's mess, yes...
Posted by: Defenestrator
» RE: We bear some responsibility for Afghanistan's mess, yes...
Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» As an added point...
Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: As an added point...
Posted by: Defenestrator
» RE: As an added point...
Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: As an added point...
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» RE: As an added point...
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» RE: As an added point...
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» RE: As an added point...
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» RE: As an added point...
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» RE: As an added point...
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» RE: As an added point...
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» RE: As an added point...
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» RE: As an added point...
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» RE: As an added point...
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» RE: As an added point...
Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» Afghanistan in the 70s
Posted by: Defenestrator
» RE: Well-intentioned lost cause
Posted by: trusetufree
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Posted by: Litt_Wmn1 on Jul 8, 2009 10:28 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I cordially invite those of you who can make the time to join the Facebook group: "Consortium of Pub-going, Loose and Forward Women's Support group." This group was originally formed in February this year to protest the beating of some women by Hindu right-wing extremists in India. These women were having a drink at a bar, and the righties felt that they were not being "good Hindu women" by consuming liquor.
The elitist leanings of some of the group members, however, has now begun to become apparent. When I fisrt started a thread called "U.S. Imperialism" I did not expect the vituperation, hostility and plain flat-out denial that have come my way. Some have called me a liar; others deluded; still others a Commie-lover. And bear in mind that these are not Americans saying these things, but Indians - who, we might have thought, would have some understanding, at least a historical consciousness, of what it means to live under colonialism.
Instead, here's what one of them, a well educated, intelligent and articulate young woman, had to say: she wd rather live under U.S. overlordship than under Russian or Chinese. She also claims that those who think the world wd be a better or "less heinous" place of the U.S. did not "intervene" are fooling themselves.
The reason I'm inviting you all to the group is not that I do not have answers for these people - but that it's too easy for them to write people like us off, if there are only one or two of us, as lunatics who are beyond the pale of reasonable argument. I am hoping that the intervention and addition of more knowledgable people - who seem to be in plenty here - can perhaps create more awareness in the Indian mind about the abuses of our colonial masters, old and new.
Alternet is not letting me post the link, but if you enter the group's name in your Facebook Search, it will come up. Thanks again and sorry for the distraction!
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Posted by: tim_s_eb@yahoo.com on Jul 8, 2009 11:40 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am an Afghan American and know my people and the Afghan history well enough to state that nether the US nor any other nation has the right to dictate to the people of Afghanistan how to conduct themselves. The American feminist movement is an angry, reactionary organization made up of mostly older careerist, childless, anti male members who are unable to make peace and live in harmony with others. Their contributions to women are limited and militant which is based on violence, killing and supporting of authoritarian tactics. This truly places them on equal standing with the Taliban they are complaining about.
The Taliban are actually freedom fighters these days and have every right and obligation to defend their nation and freedoms from the invading, brutal barbarian American forces who are drone rocketing their women and children on daily basis. The Taliban are no longer pursuing strict Islamic laws, besides what business of America is it to tell others how to live? This war just like the one on Iraq is about OIL. The Southern California based Unocal corporation wants to construct an oil and gas pipeline through Afghanistan. It is not about Al Qaeda, the Taliban or woman's rights in Afghanistan. The US wants to pacify the Afghan nation with an iron fist so the pipeline can be constructed from Uzbekistan through Afghanistan Into the Indian ocean for exports to South East Asia and Europe with huge profits to the American oil giant Unocal. I cannot believe the American feminists are so ignorant not to know or chose to ignore this fact about the oil/gas pipeline construction and tow the US government line of pure crap?
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» RE: Leave Afghanistan to the Afghans
Posted by: EncinoM
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Posted by: brian boru on Jul 8, 2009 2:08 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The same has to apply to the US military who have no interest in promoting feminine issues as they seem to struggle with this in their own organization.
The US has become a militaristic society where the majority of the population feels it has a divine right to invade poorer countries. Now even some of the feminist movement feels that they can look to the US military for moral guidance.
I do agree that careerists in feminist groups are responsible for this view just as women politicians become less pacifistic when they are rewarded with power. The Taliban may not be angels but they actually live in Afghanistan, unlike Americans who cannot understand the local languages or customs. They are part of the culture and it is only through information not bombs that they will change to something more amenable to women.
The US should get out of Afghanistan. It is the blood lust of the US military that stokes the flames of anger there as in many other parts of the world.
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Posted by: gGreen on Jul 8, 2009 3:46 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The war in Afghanistan was a legitamate war. We were attacked by the tyranical government in Afghanistan.
If there were not American soldiers fighting then the feminist progress that the two authors of this article have made will be gone. The Afghan Women's Mission, which Sonali Kolhatkar supports, would be illegal if there were no foreign soldiers.
The use of force to stop violent extremists is the only way that the will of the people of Afghanistan will shine through.
The only reason Ghandi was able to bring freedom to India was the same reason why OJ Simpson was found innocent. If Ghandi had died during one of his fasts in jail, then large violent riots would happen across India. Not peaceful protests, VIOLENT RIOTS.
Yes, there is antifeminist opression going on in Afghanistan. The only way to solve this, however, is to send more soldiers. Yes, the soldiers there are having trouble, but so would any fighting army if it had too few soldiers.
We gave peace a chance. Now let the millitary have a try.
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» RE: If we remove troops then there will be peace and love?
Posted by: cplot
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Posted by: booboo on Jul 8, 2009 4:35 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Seems that Cold War concerns trumped women's rights."
"And so has the so-called War On Terror."
"The answer being?"
"Troops out now."
"And then what'll become of women's rights in Afghanistan?"
"That'll be up to its people."
"Anything else?"
"Power to the people."
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Posted by: zola77 on Jul 8, 2009 6:27 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Set up during the soviet occupation of afghanistan it has a long and proud history. They want the Taliban and funamentalism out and democracy and womens rights in...but they say they need US imperialism OUT of afghanistan to acheieve those goals. The US occupation has NOT changed the sociopolitical climate.
They are an impressive group of activists and it is worth checking them out if you havent already.
http://www.rawa.org/index.php
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Posted by: joboost on Jul 9, 2009 11:26 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Afghanistan was not a very democratic nor safe place before 1979. Then, the Soviets invaded. Why? Radical Islamists ("Taliban") were missioneering in the southern Soviet Republics with help from contries who liked anything to destabilize the "evil empire" (would that be the "Ungreedy Sunday-school of America"?).
As for Afghans, epecially Afghan women, schools opened, and professions - and bhurkas. Actually, the helicopter pilot that took some BBC reporters around the other day was ... a woman. And where/when did she learn it and get her license? In Soviet times.
Strange - it is that "evil empire" which gave women in Afghanistan such opening for the first time in the country's history - as had happened in Iraq - under the "evil dictator", Saddam.
And in both countries, now so "liberated", the occupation forces and "democracies" have killed, and are killing more people than Saddam and Soviets combined. And in both countries, now "liberated" with the support of NOW etc., women are worse off than before their "liberation".
And those "native liberators", Maliki/Karzai, are not able to walk a street alone among all those who should be so grateful - whether women, children, or men.
Let's face it: Such "liberation" is a shame. And that those "Women's Organizations" support it only shows how little those "Ladies" know about real women, and how even less they care.
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» RE: Afghanistan: Whose "Liberation" is it and from what?
Posted by: cplot
Comments are closed-
Posted by: CRaPWHiSPeReR on Jul 13, 2009 3:02 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Puhhh-thetic.
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» RE: Another disingenuous rouse they think we're stupid enough to get behind
Posted by: Woodpecker
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SekhmetsatRa on Jul 8, 2009 2:54 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» with respect, dragging stone-agers kicking and screaming is unlikely to help women
Posted by: Suzon
» RE: Feminists stand up for ALL women
Posted by: cplot
» RE: Feminists stand up for ALL women
Posted by: EncinoM
» UN peacekeepers to correct the US blunders
Posted by: cplot
» RE: UN peacekeepers to correct the US blunders
Posted by: EncinoM
» With respect, you're an idiot
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Feminists stand up for ALL women
Posted by: hilaryuk
» RE: Feminists stand up for ALL women
Posted by: progressive-life
» Where in our Constitution is it our responsibility?
Posted by: CRaPWHiSPeReR
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Suzon on Jul 8, 2009 2:57 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Though the issue is serious, there's not much of a dilemma, really. Especially if those non-Taliban warlords are still being supplied with Viagra.
Is it just a coincidence that the US and the UK have the biggest military budgets, are the world's major manufacturers of arms and have a long and shameful history of waging war?
If only! It's that corporation thing again, isn't it? In the UK they support (blackmail) the monarchy and in the US they buy the politicians with campaign contributions.
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Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Jul 8, 2009 4:33 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: no questions are rendered to the all-important, ever-omnipotent military-industrial complex
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: For them, it was never about women but about money and power.
Posted by: Reverend Bookburn
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DrBrian on Jul 8, 2009 4:39 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: It's the culture!
Posted by: sunnywater
» RE: It's the culture!
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» I'm failing to see what your reply has to do with DrBrian's comment
Posted by: CRaPWHiSPeReR
» RE: It's the culture!
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: tedrowe on Jul 8, 2009 4:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: What does it mean to liberate Afghanistan?
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Bravo!
Posted by: CRaPWHiSPeReR
» RE: The height of emperial hubris
Posted by: sunnywater
» Imperial
Posted by: leafsong1
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PaulK on Jul 8, 2009 6:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Perhaps the Mexican smuggling cartels have set a good example recently in liberating women? Pay them a million dollars and they will set one kidnapped woman free? Have the cartels cut back on forced prostitution?
So, according to one story, a field agent successfully bought great loyalty from one local warlord by giving away a few Viagra tablets. Drugs for drugs! The warlord was completely satisfied with his four wives, and apparently all was happy in feminist Afghanistan.
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» RE: Dianne Feinstein ramped up the war in Mexico
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
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Posted by: dimityrose on Jul 8, 2009 6:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Fortress Embassy
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
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Posted by: Benn_Miller on Jul 8, 2009 6:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: What about the kind hearted boys and men in Afghanistan?
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: aahpat on Jul 8, 2009 7:02 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a wise man once sang:
War! What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing!
There are real solutions for Afghanistan that could lead to quick and significant positive change for the economy and thus the people of Afghanistan. Without firing a shot or putting another pair of boots on the ground we could cut as much as 70% of the Taliban's funding.
Poppy for Medicine
Is a program for diverting the opium, that farmers today are dependent upon for sustenance, to a legal medicine producing market.
Military experts say that the Taliban get as much as 70% of their funding to buy bullets, bombs and suicide bombers from the opium trade. Distribution and protection.
The medical diversion of opium is only half the issue. It will not succeed unless the nations of the world come together on a program to free the current global population of addicts from their dependence on the $ 320-billion global drug black market. The Taliban are only the supply. We need also to take the demand population of addicts away from the Taliban.
The fastest and most responsible way to take the addict population away from the Taliban, and other radical organizations that use illegal drugs to subsidize their violent anarchy, is to medically regulate addiction. The Swiss have a heroin maintenance program that takes addicts out of the black market economy altogether. Addicts no longer are the sales force to new potential addicts. Swiss heroin model reporting benefits
The current global black market for non-addictive substances could have the criminals, cartels and terrorists regulated out of them.
Regulated intoxicant drug markets would reduce crime victimization in poverty oppressed communities around the world. Fewer dollars would leave local economies making the communities stronger. Fewer children would have access to drug sales when sales are under responsible regulated adult supervision rather than the addict dealers and gangsters of today.
Taxes on these billions of dollars in consumer demand can go to adequately fund drug rehab.
Getting back to Afghanistan. Legal industrial hemp could give Afghan farmers 3-4 harvests a year quickly. This durable fiber plant would immediately supply the growth of the textile industry that has long existed in Afghanistan.
Rebuilding the Afghan economy is the best way to advance the rights of women and all the people. fighting to end the war on drugs is the best way to do that.
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Posted by: Beck on Jul 8, 2009 7:08 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"In 1997, The Feminist Majority launched the Campaign to Stop Gender Apartheid in Afghanistan to urge the US government and the U.N. to do everything in their power to restore the human rights of Afghan women and girls. Chaired by Mavis Leno, the Feminist Majority Foundation's campaign has brought together more than 200 leading human rights and women's organizations to condemn the Taliban's human rights abuses against women and girls and to put pressure on the US and UN to end gender apartheid in Afghanistan.
"The Campaign has been successful in increasing public awareness about the plight of women and girls in Afghanistan, preventing US and UN recognition of the Taliban, increasing the admission of Afghan women and girls as refugees, increasing humanitarian aid to the region and pressuring UNOCAL, a California oil company to abandon its plans for an Afghan oil and gas pipeline which would have produced over $100 million in royalties for the Taliban.
"With the fall of the Taliban regime, the Feminist Majority Foundation began working to convey to the world that women are an essential part of the solution for the future of Afghanistan . In 2002, the Feminist Majority Foundation intensified its nationwide public education campaign - renaming it the Campaign For Afghan Women and Girls - to win the full and permanent restoration of women's rights, promote the leadership of women in the planning and governing of post-Taliban Afghanistan, increase and monitor the provision of emergency and reconstruction assistance to women and girls, urge the expansion of peacekeeping forces, and support the Afghan Ministry for Women's Affairs, the Afghan Independent Rights Commission and Afghan women-led non-governmental organizations (NGOs)."
Just google these words :
Feminist Majority Foundation's Campaign for Afghan Women and Girls.
So "That is why it was so discouraging to learn that the Feminist Majority Foundation has lent its good name -- and the good name of feminism in general -- to advocate for further troop escalation and war."? yes, I guess the FMO "has lent" its good name, if you count something that began in the Clinton administration to respond to the Taliban as coming under the tense "has lent". That's not what the writers meant to imply, obviously. They meant this to appear as though this just happened, in support of THIS war and THESE forces. And they have to know that this is flat-out wrong.
Anyhow, the "f" word in the title is going to please the advertisers. It gets lots of clicks.
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» Everything in their power does not include invasion, occupation
Posted by: leafsong1
» Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: cplot
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: cplot
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: cplot
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: cplot
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: cplot
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: cplot
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Nor did the war start because of it....
Posted by: cplot
» Dishonest and conflicting points of view
Posted by: EncinoM
» Dishonorable and disgusting points of view
Posted by: cplot
» You begin with a lie...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: You begin with a lie...
Posted by: cplot
» RE: You begin with a lie...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: You begin with a lie...
Posted by: cplot
» RE: You begin with a lie...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: You begin with a lie...
Posted by: cplot
» RE: You begin with a lie...
Posted by: EncinoM
» Re: EncinoM the lies are all yours (and your cohorts)
Posted by: cplot
» From one Disjointed Argument to the Next
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: From one Disjointed Argument to the Next
Posted by: cplot
» RE: From one Disjointed Argument to the Next
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: From one Disjointed Argument to the Next
Posted by: cplot
» RE: From one Disjointed Argument to the Next
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: From one Disjointed Argument to the Next
Posted by: cplot
» RE: From one Disjointed Argument to the Next
Posted by: cplot
» RE: From one Disjointed Argument to the Next
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: From one Disjointed Argument to the Next
Posted by: cplot
» RE: From one Disjointed Argument to the Next
Posted by: cplot
» RE: Dishonest and conflicting points of view
Posted by: cplot
» More lies and dishonesty....
Posted by: EncinoM
» Come on...
Posted by: EncinoM
» Was it that unreasonable for them to ask for some evidence?
Posted by: suprmark
» The point is, this movement started BEFORE the war started, in l997, and shouldn't stop because
Posted by: Beck
» RE: The point is, this movement started BEFORE the war started, in l997, and shouldn't stop because
Posted by: cplot
Comments are closed-
Posted by: aahpat on Jul 8, 2009 7:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Women still are big. And prioritize. And sometimes invent entire premises for articles.
Posted by: Beck
» And some like Beck ruin it for women by campaigning for MIC puppets like Obama.
Posted by: CarlaWaters
» I'd ask what you mean Beck
Posted by: aahpat
» RE: Women used to be big
Posted by: laoma
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey on Jul 8, 2009 7:34 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» The majority of war casualties are non-combat
Posted by: Defenestrator
» RE: The majority of war casualties are non-combat
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» RE: The majority of war casualties are non-combat
Posted by: sureshot45
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey on Jul 8, 2009 7:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There isn't even any economic leverage in this case, as there might be with most of the misogynist Muslim societies. Afghanistan has no oil and produces absolutely nothing that developed countries need or want, unless you count opium and heroin.
This is essentially a call for slavery without war.
But yeah, let's all sit around drinking herbal tea and talking about feminism.
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» RE: Let's sit around and talk about feminism. That'll work.
Posted by: cplot
» You miss the point. What WILL work?
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» RE: You miss the point. What WILL work?
Posted by: cplot
» RE: You miss the point. What WILL work?
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» RE: You miss the point. What WILL work?
Posted by: cplot
» RE: You miss the point. What WILL work?
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» What will work? The original campaign that the Feminist Majority founded, as conveniently left out
Posted by: Beck
» RE: What will work? The original campaign that the Feminist Majority founded, as conveniently left
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Defenestrator on Jul 8, 2009 8:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
RAWA opposes US occupation
Most polls show that Afghans want better government, but that they do not trust the US to "liberate" them without killing huge numbers of civilians.
There are ways to help that do not involve bombs.
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» "There are ways to help that do not involve bombs."
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» I read your RAWA statement, and it calls for WAR and REVOLT!
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» It does not
Posted by: mjglow
» It says "rise up," so what does that mean?
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» RE: It says "rise up," so what does that mean?
Posted by: Defenestrator
» RE: It says "rise up," so what does that mean?
Posted by: mjglow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 8, 2009 8:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Well said and I totally agree Anna!
Posted by: Quist
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Posted by: donal1944 on Jul 8, 2009 9:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And then tell them to go for it.
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» Tsk, tsk. You are calling for WAR!
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» Not at all
Posted by: laoma
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Posted by: sallyport on Jul 8, 2009 9:44 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» They did not "swallow" a reason for going to war. The war was years away from starting when
Posted by: Beck
» RE: They did not "swallow" a reason for going to war. The war was years away from starting when
Posted by: sallyport
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Illiteratilumen on Jul 8, 2009 10:08 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have no more of a moral obligation to these women than we do to make sure that every person in India wears his or her seatbelt. Surely many thousands of traffic deaths occur in India that could be easily prevented if we were to dispatch a safety patrol to that subcontinent and back them up with a few divisions of troops just in case the locals get unruly.
If you want to stay on the subject of women's rights why don't we send the Marines in to occupy China or even the whole of southeast Asia to combat the rampant kidnapping and enslavement of women and girls in those areas? Surely that would be a just and noble action to further the cause of women's rights.
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» We bear no responsibility? Do you know Afghanistan's history?
Posted by: Defenestrator
» We bear some responsibility for Afghanistan's mess, yes...
Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: We bear some responsibility for Afghanistan's mess, yes...
Posted by: Defenestrator
» RE: We bear some responsibility for Afghanistan's mess, yes...
Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» As an added point...
Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: As an added point...
Posted by: Defenestrator
» RE: As an added point...
Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: As an added point...
Posted by: cplot
» RE: As an added point...
Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: As an added point...
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» RE: As an added point...
Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: As an added point...
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» RE: As an added point...
Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: As an added point...
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» RE: As an added point...
Posted by: Defenestrator
» RE: As an added point...
Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: As an added point...
Posted by: Defenestrator
» RE: As an added point...
Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» Afghanistan in the 70s
Posted by: Defenestrator
» RE: Well-intentioned lost cause
Posted by: trusetufree
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Litt_Wmn1 on Jul 8, 2009 10:28 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I cordially invite those of you who can make the time to join the Facebook group: "Consortium of Pub-going, Loose and Forward Women's Support group." This group was originally formed in February this year to protest the beating of some women by Hindu right-wing extremists in India. These women were having a drink at a bar, and the righties felt that they were not being "good Hindu women" by consuming liquor.
The elitist leanings of some of the group members, however, has now begun to become apparent. When I fisrt started a thread called "U.S. Imperialism" I did not expect the vituperation, hostility and plain flat-out denial that have come my way. Some have called me a liar; others deluded; still others a Commie-lover. And bear in mind that these are not Americans saying these things, but Indians - who, we might have thought, would have some understanding, at least a historical consciousness, of what it means to live under colonialism.
Instead, here's what one of them, a well educated, intelligent and articulate young woman, had to say: she wd rather live under U.S. overlordship than under Russian or Chinese. She also claims that those who think the world wd be a better or "less heinous" place of the U.S. did not "intervene" are fooling themselves.
The reason I'm inviting you all to the group is not that I do not have answers for these people - but that it's too easy for them to write people like us off, if there are only one or two of us, as lunatics who are beyond the pale of reasonable argument. I am hoping that the intervention and addition of more knowledgable people - who seem to be in plenty here - can perhaps create more awareness in the Indian mind about the abuses of our colonial masters, old and new.
Alternet is not letting me post the link, but if you enter the group's name in your Facebook Search, it will come up. Thanks again and sorry for the distraction!
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Posted by: tim_s_eb@yahoo.com on Jul 8, 2009 11:40 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am an Afghan American and know my people and the Afghan history well enough to state that nether the US nor any other nation has the right to dictate to the people of Afghanistan how to conduct themselves. The American feminist movement is an angry, reactionary organization made up of mostly older careerist, childless, anti male members who are unable to make peace and live in harmony with others. Their contributions to women are limited and militant which is based on violence, killing and supporting of authoritarian tactics. This truly places them on equal standing with the Taliban they are complaining about.
The Taliban are actually freedom fighters these days and have every right and obligation to defend their nation and freedoms from the invading, brutal barbarian American forces who are drone rocketing their women and children on daily basis. The Taliban are no longer pursuing strict Islamic laws, besides what business of America is it to tell others how to live? This war just like the one on Iraq is about OIL. The Southern California based Unocal corporation wants to construct an oil and gas pipeline through Afghanistan. It is not about Al Qaeda, the Taliban or woman's rights in Afghanistan. The US wants to pacify the Afghan nation with an iron fist so the pipeline can be constructed from Uzbekistan through Afghanistan Into the Indian ocean for exports to South East Asia and Europe with huge profits to the American oil giant Unocal. I cannot believe the American feminists are so ignorant not to know or chose to ignore this fact about the oil/gas pipeline construction and tow the US government line of pure crap?
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» RE: Leave Afghanistan to the Afghans
Posted by: EncinoM
Comments are closed-
Posted by: brian boru on Jul 8, 2009 2:08 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The same has to apply to the US military who have no interest in promoting feminine issues as they seem to struggle with this in their own organization.
The US has become a militaristic society where the majority of the population feels it has a divine right to invade poorer countries. Now even some of the feminist movement feels that they can look to the US military for moral guidance.
I do agree that careerists in feminist groups are responsible for this view just as women politicians become less pacifistic when they are rewarded with power. The Taliban may not be angels but they actually live in Afghanistan, unlike Americans who cannot understand the local languages or customs. They are part of the culture and it is only through information not bombs that they will change to something more amenable to women.
The US should get out of Afghanistan. It is the blood lust of the US military that stokes the flames of anger there as in many other parts of the world.
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Posted by: gGreen on Jul 8, 2009 3:46 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The war in Afghanistan was a legitamate war. We were attacked by the tyranical government in Afghanistan.
If there were not American soldiers fighting then the feminist progress that the two authors of this article have made will be gone. The Afghan Women's Mission, which Sonali Kolhatkar supports, would be illegal if there were no foreign soldiers.
The use of force to stop violent extremists is the only way that the will of the people of Afghanistan will shine through.
The only reason Ghandi was able to bring freedom to India was the same reason why OJ Simpson was found innocent. If Ghandi had died during one of his fasts in jail, then large violent riots would happen across India. Not peaceful protests, VIOLENT RIOTS.
Yes, there is antifeminist opression going on in Afghanistan. The only way to solve this, however, is to send more soldiers. Yes, the soldiers there are having trouble, but so would any fighting army if it had too few soldiers.
We gave peace a chance. Now let the millitary have a try.
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» RE: If we remove troops then there will be peace and love?
Posted by: cplot
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Posted by: booboo on Jul 8, 2009 4:35 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Seems that Cold War concerns trumped women's rights."
"And so has the so-called War On Terror."
"The answer being?"
"Troops out now."
"And then what'll become of women's rights in Afghanistan?"
"That'll be up to its people."
"Anything else?"
"Power to the people."
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Posted by: zola77 on Jul 8, 2009 6:27 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Set up during the soviet occupation of afghanistan it has a long and proud history. They want the Taliban and funamentalism out and democracy and womens rights in...but they say they need US imperialism OUT of afghanistan to acheieve those goals. The US occupation has NOT changed the sociopolitical climate.
They are an impressive group of activists and it is worth checking them out if you havent already.
http://www.rawa.org/index.php
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Posted by: joboost on Jul 9, 2009 11:26 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Afghanistan was not a very democratic nor safe place before 1979. Then, the Soviets invaded. Why? Radical Islamists ("Taliban") were missioneering in the southern Soviet Republics with help from contries who liked anything to destabilize the "evil empire" (would that be the "Ungreedy Sunday-school of America"?).
As for Afghans, epecially Afghan women, schools opened, and professions - and bhurkas. Actually, the helicopter pilot that took some BBC reporters around the other day was ... a woman. And where/when did she learn it and get her license? In Soviet times.
Strange - it is that "evil empire" which gave women in Afghanistan such opening for the first time in the country's history - as had happened in Iraq - under the "evil dictator", Saddam.
And in both countries, now so "liberated", the occupation forces and "democracies" have killed, and are killing more people than Saddam and Soviets combined. And in both countries, now "liberated" with the support of NOW etc., women are worse off than before their "liberation".
And those "native liberators", Maliki/Karzai, are not able to walk a street alone among all those who should be so grateful - whether women, children, or men.
Let's face it: Such "liberation" is a shame. And that those "Women's Organizations" support it only shows how little those "Ladies" know about real women, and how even less they care.
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» RE: Afghanistan: Whose "Liberation" is it and from what?
Posted by: cplot
Comments are closed-
Posted by: CRaPWHiSPeReR on Jul 13, 2009 3:02 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Puhhh-thetic.
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» RE: Another disingenuous rouse they think we're stupid enough to get behind
Posted by: Woodpecker
Updated: Catholic Bishops Embrace Anti-Abortion Terrorizers Missy Smith and Randall Terry
10 Defining Feminist Moments of 2009
Going Undercover in the Crazy, Tragic World of Christian Gay-Conversion Therapy




