REPRODUCTIVE JUSTICE  
AlterNet / By Byard Duncan
comments_imageCOMMENTS: 326

My First Abortion Party

When I got the invite to a friend's abortion party, I thought it was a way to help her through a difficult decision. I was right and wrong.
July 8, 2009  |  
 
 
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"Have you guys heard the news?" Maggie (name changed) unwrapped the scarf from around her neck and patted her flat belly. "Preggers." It was around 30 degrees outside, and her cheeks were splashed pink from the Indiana wind. 

She had discovered earlier that week, after missing a period and taking the test. "I kind of knew already. My boobs and my lower back have been killing me for a while." She shrugged. 

My girlfriend Ali and I exchanged a surprised look. Our forks, dotted with pasta sauce, dangled identically, flaccidly, in our hands. She was quicker than me to gain her composure, and turned to address her best friend. 

"What are you going to do?" Unnecessary question, really -- a conversational life vest, used when you’re sputtering for something to say. We knew the answer. Maggie, a 22-year-old college senior with no intention of bringing a child into the world yet, was going to have an abortion. She told us that she had already made up her mind; she had even determined the time, date and location. A better question might have been, "How are you going to pay for it?" 

She answered that one before we had a chance to ask. "We’re having a party Friday to raise money," Maggie said. "You guys are obviously invited." 

An abortion party. For the price of whatever we were willing to donate, she explained, we could partake of baked goods, beer and dancing. It was going to start at 10 p.m. at Maggie’s. 

The Facebook invite came a day later, and it was settled. Ali and I were going to scrape together what donation money we could and join in the festivities.

Before continuing, I should make it clear that I’m no stranger to bizarre, pregnancy-related parties. My junior year of college, I attended a "Welcoming the Baby Kegger" designed to provide love, support and slurred confessions to a friend nearing her delivery date (she drank grape juice). Though I had initially been skeptical, I left this soirée du bébé pleasantly surprised. Everyone had brought gifts, toys, wine and food, which they piled atop a table in her living room. The music was low, and the conversation was great -- an all-around classy affair. I imagined the abortion party might be similar to this: a way to help out a friend who’s made a difficult decision. I was both right and wrong.

Ali and I arrived around 11, only half aware of the irony of being "late" to an abortion party. Walking in, we were bludgeoned with a blast of hot air, followed by the tangy stink of dance floor revelry. Someone had taken a red bed sheet and hung it below a light fixture to resemble a giant womb. Every so often, a dancer’s head or arm or dreadlock would brush against one of its smooth folds, creating a rippling effect. "Let’s Go Crazy" by Prince was playing.

As Ali went off to find Maggie, I sat down and struck up a conversation with Andrew (name changed), the three-year-old son of one of the partygoers. When Andrew and I first met months before, I learned that he’s a very precocious boy when it comes to animals and plants. His father has spent a lot of time teaching him about birdcalls and edible nuts, and he’s always spouting out little nuggets of useful knowledge. Tonight, he had the remnants of some apple-flavored dessert smeared on his mouth and owl pajamas. 

Even though I thought the presence of a young child at an abortion party was a little bizarre, nobody else seemed to acknowledge (or care about) this contradiction. Instead, the rest of the guests just took turns fawning over him, exchanging high fives and swooshing him through the air. He, along with everyone else, was having a blast.  

"Do you feel welcome here?" I eventually asked him, fully expecting a ‘grown-up’-type answer. He glanced around, chewed on his sleeve and went to look for some babes to hang out with. "Too cool for me," I thought, shaking my head and cramming a pastry into my mouth. I was bewildered. 

I continued mingling, sampling pastries and chatting with some of Ali’s friends. I didn’t really feel comfortable discussing the abortion with strangers, so I just talked bullshit: Music. School. The Future. I guess I was hesitant to confront the breadth of the party’s complexity. Maybe I had even hoped to avoid it.


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this was weird
[Report this comment]
Posted by: bobson on Jul 7, 2009 1:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I mean, I'm pro choice and all but gathering to celebrate the killing off of a fetus is pretty f'in morbid and callous.
Should such a decisions not be carried out with the utmost seriousness and respect to the life that is about to be extinguished?
"Not about to" have a baby because she is 22 and just doesn't want to ruin her fun time is why the pro choice movement has so much trouble. This is abusing that right to choose, and the party, and the other girls wanting to exclude and resenting the boyfriend, this is some seriously cold shit and it offers a new glimpse into the downright darkness that resides in the female soul. This is some stone age pagan shit right here, can't believe it is happening in 2009!

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» RE: I don't know, why not adoption Posted by: punkrockhoneymama
» i don't want your daughter Posted by: goatini
» sorry but i'm not a skank Posted by: goatini
» RE: this was weird Posted by: khaleesi
» RE: this was weird Posted by: dmaciewski
» RE: this was weird Posted by: BobbieT
» RE: this was weird Posted by: sakul72
» and you would know HOW? Posted by: goatini
» RE: this was weird Posted by: FbO Vorcha
» RE: this was weird Posted by: Cory.Goodman
» RE: this was weird Posted by: maglindracia
» RE: this was weird Posted by: Cory.Goodman
» RE: this was weird Posted by: babs
» RE: this was weird Posted by: Cat37
» I kind of agree Posted by: Robba29
» RE: this was weird Posted by: caritasinveritate
» Wow Posted by: magoo65293
» OBAMA SCAMS POPE 2X Posted by: reelman

Comments are closed-

Happy to see ladies supporting each other
[Report this comment]
Posted by: TNT666 on Jul 7, 2009 2:04 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think a fundraiser party is a fantastic idea. If abortion had been as accepted when I had mine, I would not have had to borrow money from my mother! I would not have dreamed of having a fundraiser because so many people around me were not pro-choice.

I am very heart warmed that a young lady feels this comfortable with her peer group and her decision.

As for the guy, he is completely irrelevant to the decision-making process. But since his body was 50% responsible for the problem, it would be compassionate of him to contribute financially.

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» I agree Posted by: tymefornew
» RE: I agree Posted by: TNT666
» RE: I agree Posted by: MilesGregarius

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Post abortion party
[Report this comment]
Posted by: sfortuna on Jul 7, 2009 3:17 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not only is the private PRE fundraiser a great idea, it makes great sense to follow it up with a POST abortion party. A fun POST party game that never fails is auctioning off the stem cells and placental blood on Ebay. The partygoers who guesses the winning bids without going over win a door prize. Some overseas drug makers pay INSANE amounts for that stuff, which will more than cover the cost of the abortion. Of course, you could get all traditional and just bake the contents into a pie to be shared by all, or use them as garden fertilizer, but in this tight economy a girl's gotta think of the Benjamins, right?

Other popular games could be pin the bloody coathanger on the politician, and the downstairs belly slide race, where pregnant gals can race to the bottom of the stairs face first in an attempt to dislodge the parasite growing inside her. Men, of course, are excluded from all games except Penis Pinata, where blindfolded women take swings at the guys testicles with a cricket bat until the offending organs are ground to a fine paste, suitable for a cracker spread.

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» RE: Post abortion party Posted by: Cory.Goodman
» Even though you speak in jest . . . Posted by: countingdaisies

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Putting the fun in fundraiser
[Report this comment]
Posted by: kittybrat on Jul 7, 2009 3:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think an abortion party to get up the money is a great idea who's time has come. Abortions are expensive.

I do feel sorry for the male involved. After all, they are a couple, they made the decision together and he is there to emotionally support her.
Too bad for the cold shoulder.

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Is this like some weird extrovert thing?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Jasonix on Jul 7, 2009 6:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a man and an introvert, so maybe I just don't understand the need to talk about one's unintended pregnancy and the need to party while doing so. If it were me, I'd quietly have it done and probably not tell a single soul about it. But whatever.

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» It's more than weird! Posted by: countingdaisies

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SICK SICK SICK
[Report this comment]
Posted by: rastaman on Jul 7, 2009 6:38 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it's one thing to have an abortion.....it's ANOTHER thing to celebrate it.


this is precisely the idiots that we defend against Repuglicans saying that pro choice are "pro abortion"....and then another one of these brain dead ditzes proves it to them.


women in this country are childish and stoooooopid......and had better grow up....and fast.

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» RE: SICK SICK SICK Posted by: maglindracia
» RE: SICK SICK SICK Posted by: Sympa
» RE: SICK SICK SICK Posted by: TNT666
» RE: SICK SICK SICK Posted by: babs

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I see cheapening human life has reached a new low. You have made
[Report this comment]
Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Jul 7, 2009 7:34 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the eugenicists & abortion industry very happy.

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Odd
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Karina on Jul 7, 2009 7:49 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Perhaps we should have parties to pay for condoms and BC pills, or even tampons, or maybe a really nice vibrator.
Maggie's choice, Maggie's responsibility.

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» RE: Odd Posted by: TheExpatriate
» RE: Odd Posted by: Karina

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I'm not buying this story at all.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: clvngodess on Jul 7, 2009 7:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Smells of propagandist bullshit. It's not a tupperware decision. Plus, there are providers that can work with people who have financial challenges. So I hold to my not so humble opinion that this is inflammatory bullshit.

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» RE: I'm not buying this story at all. Posted by: MotherLodeBeth

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Progressives Should Favor Adoption
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Human Being on Jul 7, 2009 8:09 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would urge Maggie and her boyfriend to create an adoption plan for their child.

Abortion is the Achilles heel of us progressives. We rightly agitate about war, poverty, cruelty against animals, ecological destruction, etc. But when it comes to sentient pre-birth humans, we're supposed to chuck all compassion and start prattling about "rights." This is hypocrisy of the absolute worst sort.

I can understand and respect Maggie's (and her boyfriend's) desire not to have their life plans interrupted by parenthood at this time. So the smart thing to do would be to contact an adoption agency now, rather than an abortion clinic, and give the child a chance to live a full life. Isn't that what we progressives claim we want for ALL people?

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» RE: Progressives Should Favor Adoption Posted by: punkrockhoneymama
» RE: Progressives Should Favor Adoption Posted by: punkrockhoneymama
» Not this progressive Posted by: sunspot

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A FEAST FOR THE PRO-LIFERS !!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 7, 2009 8:09 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even if this is Bull---t, the anti abortion crazies will love it. It will end up all over their hate web sites. The author has proved their point better than they do. This is an attempt at sensationalism and it fails miserably. It cheapens and diminishes the whole abortion debate by turning it into entertainment. I'm pro choice and this trash serves no useful purpose to the cause. I hope NARAL gets a look at it. ANNA

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Bu Bye Alternet
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Morganx on Jul 7, 2009 8:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This site is deteriorating so quickly. Must remove from blog rotation. You will print absolutely anything. Anything. CYA.

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» you're right Posted by: alizard

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My abortion story
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Comrade Rutherford on Jul 7, 2009 9:00 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The one time I had to make that decision with my GF, it was very personal and intense. We didn't announce it, or have a fundraiser. It was our private decision and we had to scrape the money together ourselves.

I knew that ultimately the final decision was hers alone, but she was very keen on my input and my feelings. We made the decision together. I went with her to the clinic and waited for her and then took her home and took care of her while she recovered. Never once did we regret our decision to excise a clump of cells.

As to the story, I don't see anything wrong at all with having a fundraising party. No one is going to come to a fundraising wake. And an 8 week old fetus is NOT a baby!

Now that I am older and my wife and I have kids, I will tell you all that we had two full term stillbirths. Just because you decide not to abort your fetus is NO guarantee that you'll actually have a living baby! Babies die quite often actually for no reason science can find. I simply can't get all self-righteous about aborting fetuses. So get off your high horses and stop reveling in how other people make important decisions about their lives.

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» AMEN!!!!! Posted by: sunspot

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Unanswered questions
[Report this comment]
Posted by: DaBear on Jul 7, 2009 9:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not being from Indiana (but knowing plenty of whackos from Ohio), I didn't "get" the skinny on the whole come-to-Ohio-for-your-abortion angle... nor did I get any closure on why Maggie seemed unhappy at her party.

The whole thing seemed perfectly fine to me, creative, responsible, and yeah, the questions raised by the author are pretty damned relevant, even if most 'Merkaaners can't handle grownup discourse yet. (Note how many anti-choice trolls and faux progs cropped up in the comments)

As to the whole "male" thing... I'm still amazed that aggression is the end-all definition of masculinity or "male" and female is rational reasonable and cooperative. I guess sexism is ALWAYS reactionary.

Also the whole notion that males are blankly unaffected by reproduction and reproductive choices, other than financial or as an emotionally supporting role, seems pretty demeaning and irresponsible if not wholly immature and non-functional. The author of the piece stated his own positionality quite well, but in the comments some people got really lost about the BF and the scope of his involvement.

While I would not pretend to speak for all males, as a male, I don't feel ambivalent or distant with respect to my own reproductive potential, actualized or terminated. I have a real problem with progeny in my absence. Every child I've co-created in this life was deliberately chosen and chosen with my being a Dad in mind, connected with co-creator female partner or not. The snip ultimately was the only way to ensure I controlled my own reproductivity. I'm grateful my co-creator female partner still wants me around... and that's a part of the scary vulnerable part of the male experience in reproduction NO ONE talks about (or apparently wants to, we're just thugs afterall). That kid is a part of me and not a part of me... that's pretty damned important. When we weren't ready or we couldn't afford to, we didn't follow the parental path to its fruition. Thankfully we had the safe legal choice technology and hard won civil rights affords most of us. But Men are much more than sperm donors and wallets, we are whole human people too, and we males do have to recognize there are limits since the lionshare of the heavy lifting initially ain't gonna be us for nine months. Sounds to me like Maggie's got a keeper in her BF and her friends who dissed on the guy need to grow up some more.

Men have a LOT more work to do on each other.... time to move past the aggression definition and the financial boundary limit if we're going to be partners. For me the mono-dimensional-male model was one of the unanswered questions that leaves me feeling so bleak...

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never
[Report this comment]
Posted by: sureshot45 on Jul 7, 2009 9:32 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
would i 'donate' money for my friends irresponsible behavior. she could have saved herself the trouble and used a condom for less than a dollar. idiot.

im pro choice, but this is the reason the repubs have so much ammo. this is the stupidest thing i have read in a really long time..and i visit alternet frequently..which says a lot.

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» RE: never Posted by: MT512
» RE: never? Really? Posted by: DaBear
» RE: never Posted by: maglindracia

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Something is not clear here.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: maddy on Jul 7, 2009 10:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not sure why the women were collectively angry at the boyfriend. If he was trying to coerce the girl in one direction or the other, then I could understand it. But, if the women decided he was the "enemy" out of some political bs, then that doesn't mean that the women in said instance were acting "male." It means they were acting like immature douchebags.

Nor do I understand why it's the "compassionate" decision for any person to remain silent out of some wouldbe political deference to the "oppressed." I used to hear this crap all of the time from liberal whites in college classes about race and racism--that they were obligated to remain silent and obedient to the students of color in the room as some kind of anti-racist solidarity. I'd even have white students write in their papers that they couldn't engage a black writer on principle because they couldn't, as a white person, understand said person's experience. My favorite example was when I was leading an impromptu conversation about racism on campus and a white student interrupted us and, angrily, said that we "needed to stop talking because we should not discuss race without a person of color present."

I thought then, and do now, that such a position was nothing but rank cowardice and a skewed brand of leftist politics. It's a basic disrepect to refuse to engage with someone on the grounds that you're somehow honoring them as you do so--it's condescending, patronizing, and fundamentally dishonest.

So, to start, don't give me this crap that "good" (i.e. feminist-leaning) men cannot participate in the abortion debate. Of course you can. If your male friend was hurting at the thought of losing his child, he has a right to that pain, and he also has a right to expect your support. Supporting him doesn't change your position on abortion rights. Challenging these girls on their behavior shouldn't either.

This shouldn't be surprising, but there are folks on the left who can be rigidly dogmatic--even bullying--about their politics. I tend to understand it as a youth thing--a kind of fierce protection resulting from the person feeling that they're under seige all of the time. But, I'm sorry, it's fine to say that you're prochoice but unwilling to watch an innocent person be vilified. It's also fine to say that, at a minimum, that the "open celebration" of a friend's abortion as described herein is tacky and immature, and does nothing to advance pro-choice politics or a feminism that includes men.

This kind of "I can't say what I really feel because I'm privileged" is EXACTLY why the right thinks liberals are weak and pathetic. Integrity should not be set in opposition to loyalty. Period.

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» Very well said Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: Very well said Posted by: humblesound
» RE: Very well said Posted by: Illiteratilumen

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Selfishness on Display!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: sakul72 on Jul 7, 2009 10:34 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow, this is just crazy. There are actual women like this in the world? If you don't want a baby, don't get pregnant.. If you do get pregnant take some responsibility women...! Grow up for crying out loud! You are celebrating the death of another human being.

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» RE: Selfishness on Display! Posted by: sakul72
» RE: Selfishness on Display! Posted by: humblesound
» RE: Selfishness on Display! Posted by: TheExpatriate
» RE: Selfishness on Display! Posted by: sakul72

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I’ll by voting against abortion to promote gender equality.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Honky the Nihilist X on Jul 7, 2009 7:45 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would support a women aborting her parental responsibility post conception but since men can’t, I’ll do my best to take away that choice from women.

Men are slaves, a violation of the 13th amendment, to a bastard kid.

Men are not provided equal protection under the law as guaranteed by the 14th amendment.

Women will tell a man that wants to abort his responsibility to a child, “Responsibility”, “Too bad”, “shoulda used protection”, “innocent little baby”. We’ll bitches, ditto.

P.S. I’d love meet chicks at an abortion party.

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This author is jumping to conclusions
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Malou on Jul 7, 2009 10:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He doesn't really know what was going on with the boyfriend. He bases all of his conjecture on rumors and speculation. This is not a good point of departure for a meaningful discussion about the role of men in women's choices.

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» Agreed Posted by: soleta_nf

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Not sure if I'm buying this story, either...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Quannah on Jul 7, 2009 11:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but that's neither here nor there, really. Assuming it is true, who cares? It isn't anybody's business. Maggie and her boyfriend have the right to do whatever they choose. Using a creative way to try to fund an expensive medical procedure doesn't seem wrong at all to me.

People are awfully judgemental here today!

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This is like a parody....
[Report this comment]
Posted by: morticia on Jul 7, 2009 11:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And a stupid, destructive one, at that.

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» 1-rater: Posted by: morticia
» RE: 1-rater: Posted by: morticia
» RE: 1-rater: Posted by: morticia
» RE: 1-rater: Posted by: Quannah
» RE: 1-rater: Posted by: morticia
» RE: 1-rater: Posted by: Quannah
» RE: 1-rater: Posted by: sakul72
» Try me! Posted by: morticia

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What the h*ll is a three-year-old doing at a party at 11pm?!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: bkochandco on Jul 7, 2009 12:09 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a liberal, a feminist and rabidly pro-choice but I have to ask-what the h*ll is a three-year-old doing at a party at 11pm?! I am also the responsible parent of a teenager. If you do bring a child into the world, they come first. If you can't find a babysitter so you can attend a party, you DON'T go! The woman who decided to have an abortion was, by far, the most responsible "parent" in the room!

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slow news day in the depths of summer again...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ellie on Jul 7, 2009 3:03 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
you guys at alternet need to do some thinking about content... seems that since the election, at least to me, your story lines are heading into enquirer territory...

can we please have some real, adult, mature, thought provoking content for a change???

ps... did anyone think to checks the 'facts' in this story??? is it made up of bull, a straw man scenario or heading towards another battle over vegetarianism which is beyond boring...

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AlterNet Should Know Better
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Posted by: Lilly on Jul 7, 2009 4:00 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a lifelong, pro-choice, Kennedy-and-Obama Democrat; I believe in abortion on demand; I think the state should pay for abortions when the woman can't, and I THINK THIS ARTICLE WAS DISGUSTING. I go to right-wingers' websites and read about their longing to replace our Judiciary with military tribunals after which they intend to execute all federal employees, and I think "these people are nuts". Then I come here and see that the left is just as bad as the right. I don't see that AlterNet advanced anything worth advancing by publishing this piece.

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Carrying the Torch for Nothing: Third Wavers Unite, or is Untie?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ladyoracle on Jul 7, 2009 8:10 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am totally prochoice and am glad that "Maggie" had friends to support her and I am equally glad that she had the guy who helped create the problem also standing by her side. I am not as tolerant as the author seems to be of women who could not embrace this boyfriend. Unless, as another poster said, the guy was pressuring her choice, they should have been kissing his ass for his not cutting and running on the "p" word followed by the "a" word.

I would absolutely attend a party raising money for an abortion, and I see nothing anti-feminist about it, except the way the guy was treated, unless there's backstory missing.

However, I am concerned about the 3-yr old at a party so late at night. The author as well as the other people at the party seem too irresponsible, self-absorbed, and flaky to have intelligent ideas about what "choice" really means. It's clear that Maggie wasn't ready for motherhood, and that's fine, but I wonder if once the undergraduate high wears off a lot of the people who were at the party will rethink how they acted that night and what it really meant. It seems like it ended up meaning nothing. That is sad.

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Lot of misguided rage in the comments section today...
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Posted by: humblesound on Jul 8, 2009 1:48 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a little confused:

There are people here who are vehemently opposed to this party happening. They frown completely on the actions of that woman and would love to shame her for it. Okay...

But why are you shaming Alternet for this article? A narrative thing that someone wrote explaining their experience attending and being a part of something they were both taken aback by and had never seen before.

How is that sort of personal diary style journalism the thing that needs to be burned to the fucking ground on your witch hunt?

This article's fine.

Now the nonstop articles telling us we need to stop eating meat based on what our teeth look like? Those could go.

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good idea
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Posted by: jayteapee on Jul 8, 2009 8:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i like it. there's nothing draconian here. let's face it, we don't debate about calling eggs chickens until they hatch. what's with all "special" and "life" talk about a fertilized human egg? sheesh...all this magic and reverence is pretty amusing. an abortion party is a great idea to raise funds and just talk straight about an overblown issue.

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Why not adoption? some ask
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Posted by: Old Skeptic on Jul 8, 2009 9:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In order for this embryo to come to term and be born, then adopted, the woman involved (a.k.a. the mother) has to be willing to endure 9 months of often very unpleasant and uncomfortable pregnancy, hours of agonizing labor and childbirth, and be willing to risk her health, and even her life, if something goes terribly wrong. A woman might be willing to go through all of this and more to bring forth a wanted child, that she and possibly her beloved, will want, cherish, and provide for. Asking her to undergo all this to bring forth a child she doesn't want, cannot afford, or that may have a serious defect is absurd.

It is interesting that the loudest voices in the anti-choice crowd always seem to belong to men, who by grace of a fortunate "Y" chromosome are forever protected from having to make this decision for their own bodies. I strongly suspect that if men could get pregnant, abortion would be a total non-issue and birth control would be a sacrament.

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Ironic post from Old Skeptic
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Posted by: enough already.... on Jul 8, 2009 11:10 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, old skeptic's post is very ironic. Poll after poll show that in the U.S. men support abortion rights more than women do. In fact, the demographic group that is most in favor of abortion is men in their 20's. Again, polls show that women in that age group tend to be more pro-life than pro-choice. Favorable opinion of abortion trails off for both sexes in older age groups. Wonder why that is?

Interestingly, recent polls indicate that being pro-abortion (which was in a pretty much a satistical dead-heat with being pro-life) has recently declined U.S. wide. For the first time in a few decades, the U.S. is pretty firmly pro-life.

These are facts, not opinions. Flame all you want, but that's what it is.

Now a question.... could it be that being pro-choice only serves to further victimize women? It seems young men in national polls certainly think its a good thing to have responsibility-free sex, and it seems that women think differently.

Now another question.... can anyone give a good answer on why a fetus (whatever stage) is not a human. Just saying its a clump of cells, or that it doesn't look like a human are not answers. Those are called conclusory assertions, without any basis other than one's own knee jerk opinion. I'd like to see a truly reasoned opinion on the matter. Note that I like Paglia's answer to the question a great deal... that abortion is killing a human, but that she's still pro-choice. At least that's intellectually honest.

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» RE: Ironic post from Old Skeptic Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: Ironic post from Old Skeptic Posted by: photon's feather
» and that altar servers Posted by: goatini

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ML561
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Posted by: ML561 on Jul 8, 2009 2:40 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think it should be a lot easier for people to adopt children. Doesn't anyone find it strange that in the United States, people have to practically be saints in order to become adoptive parents (and never mind gay couples, everybody knows they are pedophiles--just being sarcastic here--). yet so many completely irresponsible people have children of their own and end up abusing them or neglecting them, but this is considered their "right". Also, I believe that much more support is needed for women who are faced with unexpected pregnancies, so that they can get the medical care and other things they need, whether they choose to give the child up for adoption or to keep the baby. I've seen a lot on this post about "women need to grow up.", which I am assuming means that women need to take responsibility for their actions. HELLO!
It takes TWO to create a baby. Women don't get pregnant all by their lonesome. Men need to be taught some sort of sexual responsibility as well. It is simply not true that boys can't keep it in their pants, and that it is the woman who bears the burden should things get out of hand. I feel the abortion party was in bad taste as were many of the comments regarding it, including some of the profanity..let's keep it clean, please, and try to have some intelligent and thoughtful discourse.

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» RE: ML561 Posted by: maglindracia

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What a shame
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Posted by: fosterdad on Jul 8, 2009 4:26 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So many couples like my wife and I want to adopt and cannot because of women like your friend. What a shame. She had a choice and could have made three people happy beyond words. Instead, all that's left is a child in a garbage can and another couple will have to wait even longer.

What a shame.

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» RE: What a shame Posted by: faerietails
» RE: What a shame Posted by: sakul72
» RE: What a shame Posted by: MilesGregarius
» RE: What a shame Posted by: sakul72
» picky picky picky Posted by: goatini
» RE: What a shame Posted by: fosterdad
» so what? Posted by: goatini
» no one is obligated Posted by: goatini
» RE: no one is obligated Posted by: fosterdad
» YES, it is wrong. Posted by: goatini
» RE: YES, it is wrong. Posted by: fosterdad
» PS, a FETUS is not a CHILD Posted by: goatini
» fetuses are not children Posted by: mcubed
» RE: fetuses are not children Posted by: sakul72
» RE: no one is obligated Posted by: fosterdad
» RE: no one is obligated Posted by: Quannah
» thank you Q, my friend, Posted by: goatini
» Bullseye, goatini... Posted by: morticia
» not my piece, mort, Posted by: goatini
» "I have 2 kids now" Posted by: goatini
» yeah, i would hate to see Posted by: goatini
» RE: What a shame Posted by: TNT666
» well, of course, Posted by: goatini
» RE: What a shame Posted by: login@bugmenot.com

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Is there at least one Liberal woman that knows what responsibility means?
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Posted by: sakul72 on Jul 9, 2009 5:45 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just curious if there is at least one liberal woman that knows what the term personal responsibility means? It means taking care of yourself and taking responsibility for what you do, good or bad. It means not taking the easy way out when you make a mistake.. It means owning up to what you do and being grown up enough to do the right thing about it.

Seems that is a rare thing with liberal women these days... It is extremely unattractive to a man looking for a mate, but hell yeah if you are just looking for a good time...

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» Yo! sakul72! Question for you! Posted by: morticia
» Glad to see... Posted by: morticia
» RE: Glad to see... Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Glad to see... Posted by: morticia
» RE: Glad to see... Posted by: sakul72
» RE: Glad to see... Posted by: morticia
» RE: Glad to see... Posted by: sakul72
» I asked you if.... Posted by: morticia
» Responsibility for children Posted by: mcubed

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Why that smells like....
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Posted by: login@bugmenot.com on Jul 9, 2009 7:50 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The whole thing reads like fiction, I for one call BS. Either that or these two people are so clearly unfit to bear or raise a child that this was the best course of action. But I still go with BS.

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I wouldn't try the punch, that's for sure
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Posted by: Hillymeg on Jul 9, 2009 2:19 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thought your piece was very well written and, for the most part, well thought out. (I also thought that the jezebel.com folk really missed the point when they ranted about how, as a man, you don't 'get it'). However, I was surprised by the lack of, well, surprise you seemed to show at "Maggie's" macabre party. On Everyday Ethics, we're asking readers to comment on the morality of "Maggie's" action.

bit.ly/15Ht7j

Hope you'll comment too!

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Did this get posted...
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Posted by: Robba29 on Jul 9, 2009 10:44 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
to some pro-life, psycho christian website? Who are all these nutcases who showed up here? At least discuss the article, don't be a bunch of whiny dicks!

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» FETUS is not a BABY Posted by: goatini

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????
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Posted by: daved on Jul 10, 2009 10:27 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I read this story, I almost came out of my shoes. Who was this woman? What kind of people would go to such a "party"? If a friend of mine had a party to raise money because she and her partner were too stupid and irresponsible to either take precautions or just keep it in their pants, that would be the last time I would be speaking to her. Let alone expecting her friends to foot the bill for her to kill her baby?!!!! Has the whole world gone crazy?

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At what point do we get real about our 'roles' in abortion?
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Posted by: kmby06 on Jul 11, 2009 9:44 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a woman who has gone through an abortion and the emotional difficulties afterward, reading this article makes me saddened at the supposed irreverence of the woman's friends. I still feel strongly that I made the right decision at 20, with no financial ability, emotional ability, or parenting partnership with the 'father' of the fetus, but it was still not an easy decision to come to and grapple with at a young age and little in the way of life experience to help guide me.

The fact that her partner was willing to support her in the decision should NEVER be miscounted. So many women go through abortions in silence, with a fear of stigma and rejection. Had my partner been there for me emotionally, I would have handled the situation much better, and wouldn't have gone through multiple levels of depression afterwards. This woman's 'friends' are arrogant and misguided clowns that are the reason women get viewed in a harsh light as far as our rights to our bodies are concerned. No one but the woman in question has the right to say who is 'supposed' to be a pillar of support through a trying time, and furthermore assuming he should be pony-ing up the money for the abortion seems to contradict the idea of the woman managing everything, decision and procedure on her own.

To anyone with a more modest view on abortion or looking for reasons to stand against a pro-choice lifestyle, please don't take this superficial article as the standard for modern women and our right to choose. Some people just want to make a shock statement.

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THE WRITER HITS THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!!!
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Posted by: AZLBRAX07 on Jul 11, 2009 2:00 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This quote says it all and succinctly sums up what's totally wrong with today's so-called "liberals":

"These were liberal people, after all… I couldn’t help but notice how aggressive…their attitudes became when confronted with the issue of a woman’s right to choose. It was almost as if, in the process of upholding an ideal of openness and acceptance, they had fallen victim to the same forces they were trying to critique."

I have noticed how hypocritical, vitriolic, downright fanatical and narrow-minded many of the people who respond to the articles on 'Alternet.org' tend to be...at least, when one offers a reasonable opinion that isn't in lock-step with The Party Line. Then again, 'Alternet.org' is equally hypocritical in the way certain responses are "censored"…even though those responses don't stray from the guidelines we, all, agreed to.

It would appear that the New Left is nothing but the reverse side of the same smarmy coin the Neocons are on!

FYI: I am pro-choice in ALL things, not just a woman's right to choose!!!

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Isn't it better.....
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Posted by: ms_happy on Jul 13, 2009 3:07 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
....to nip a potentially negative consequence in the bud? Those of you complaining about how ditzy the 22-year-old is and what a shame she is having an abortion - hmmm, would you rather this ditzy woman bring ANOTHER UNWANTED CHILD into our world and burden the rest of us with it? Having her carry the child to term - a nine-month sentence - in order to deliver it into the arms of someone who wants to adopt? Nice thought, but I wouldn't put my life on hold for nine months when the biggest problem we have as a society right now is TOO MANY PEOPLE. It's interesting how the abortion issue resonates with nutcases who drive around town in trucks plastered with bloody fetuses, or who bomb women's clinics and murder gynecologists. "Right to life," my derriere. These mysogynists who prey on women are the lowest form of terrorist and it's too bad their moms didn't exercise their right to choose prior to unleashing these social miscreants on the world. As to the party to "celebrate" abortion - a little weird, but what the heck - it's a whole 'nother generation.

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» RE: Isn't it better..... Posted by: sakul72

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This Did Not Happen.
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Posted by: LEB on Jul 14, 2009 7:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I really 100 percent believe this is made up.

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How About A questionnaire!
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Posted by: sakul72 on Jul 14, 2009 8:39 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How about this, if women want an on demand abortion, they can get one if they pass a lie detector test, or any other such test that would PROVE answers..

The question could be:

did you honestly attempt birth control, and the condom broke, or whatever.. the bc failed..

or

is it a provable fact that this baby will be better of DEAD in a garbage can than living, breathing etc..

and/or

you can prove that you are a responsible person, that this was a grave mistake and not just an easy way to get out of irresponsible and selfish behavior.

and/or

rape or medical necessity

..

then you cave have an abortion. Does that WORK?

Inconvenience is NEVER a valid reason for the death of a human being... well, unless you are high up in the Bush administration...

(and in this hypothetical situation, there is no BEATING the lie detector test, etc.)

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» RE: How About A questionnaire! part 2 Posted by: MilesGregarius
» good one! Posted by: goatini
» RE: good one! Posted by: sakul72
» ah. the plot thickens Posted by: goatini

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Celebrating is GOOD
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Posted by: login@bugmenot.com on Jul 14, 2009 10:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/abortioncelebration

**no one is celebrating the act of aborting..no one here goes "oh goody, an abortion"

the people here are celebrating that we had the choice to abort...that it was available..we weren't forced to carry to term despite risk to our lives..emotional and physical health...etc..etc...**

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Scary as fu** article...seriously?...is this guy telling the truth?
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Posted by: bnvasquez on Jul 14, 2009 4:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is probably one of the most creepiest things I've ever read (and not because the title has the phrase "abortion party"). I highly doubt that this happened. I really think this guy is a conservative trying to make feminists look like evil women or something. Where are the guys voices in this issue? WELL YOU WERE OBVIOUSLY TOO BUSY BASHING WOMEN TO ASK THIS DUDE HUH?

Give me a break. Read the article more closely and I really wish Alternet could read the stuff it puts on the front of the website. This disgustingly written piece full of subliminal messages needs to be analyzed way differently than everyone is looking at it...

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Survival pressure.
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Posted by: wagadog on Jul 14, 2009 10:09 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How are you going to afford to bring a child into the world when you can barely even afford an abortion?

Even if they had health insurance (which I doubt) it typically does not cover health-related travel such as having a newborn medivac'ed to a facility that can handle many serious complications of birth, and certainly will not cover ALL the costs (been to the hospital lately?).

And yes, as a woman, she will need whatever degree she can get just to be able to afford to feed and clothe herself in this economy. She can expect to make what a (male) high school drop-out earns.

Women have abortions under survival pressure. Not "selfishness", survival pressure.

That her friends turned a fund-raiser into a macabre anti-celebration and vilification of the boyfriend is just an expression of collective frustration at a no-win situation.

Welcome to America. Where, if female, you don't even deserve to LIVE if no man wants you or your baby.

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LET'S TELL THIS LIKE IT REALLY IS:
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Posted by: AZLBRAX07 on Jul 16, 2009 11:48 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They're not pro-life, they're ANTI-CHOICE!

They are not the "religious right" because they are neither!

They are, simply, pathetic low-lifes who need to force you to "believe" as they do because, by so doing, they can believe their specious crap that much better.

You know: if they tell the same "fable" enough times, it becomes true!

Hal-lay-lew-yah, sweeeeeet jeeeeee-zus!

Amen.

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tiffany jewellery
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Posted by: ekoljos on Jul 18, 2009 9:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tiffany for her. Exquisite tiffany jewelries in high quliat
, bracelet jewelry, eardrop jewelry, necklace jewelry, ring jewelry, finger ring jewelry, earring jewelry.
Tiffany Jewellery.shopping tiffany

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Tiffany Necklaces

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Fundraiser= Job
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Posted by: Phe on Jul 21, 2009 1:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't understand how a person who calls themselves an adult, with rights to adult privileges that cost money and not have a job. Seriously. College student or not an "independent" adult without a job or their own source of income is an oxymoron.

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Alternet Comments:

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this was weird
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Posted by: bobson on Jul 7, 2009 1:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I mean, I'm pro choice and all but gathering to celebrate the killing off of a fetus is pretty f'in morbid and callous.
Should such a decisions not be carried out with the utmost seriousness and respect to the life that is about to be extinguished?
"Not about to" have a baby because she is 22 and just doesn't want to ruin her fun time is why the pro choice movement has so much trouble. This is abusing that right to choose, and the party, and the other girls wanting to exclude and resenting the boyfriend, this is some seriously cold shit and it offers a new glimpse into the downright darkness that resides in the female soul. This is some stone age pagan shit right here, can't believe it is happening in 2009!

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» RE: I don't know, why not adoption Posted by: punkrockhoneymama
» i don't want your daughter Posted by: goatini
» sorry but i'm not a skank Posted by: goatini
» RE: this was weird Posted by: khaleesi
» RE: this was weird Posted by: dmaciewski
» RE: this was weird Posted by: BobbieT
» RE: this was weird Posted by: sakul72
» and you would know HOW? Posted by: goatini
» RE: this was weird Posted by: FbO Vorcha
» RE: this was weird Posted by: Cory.Goodman
» RE: this was weird Posted by: maglindracia
» RE: this was weird Posted by: Cory.Goodman
» RE: this was weird Posted by: babs
» RE: this was weird Posted by: Cat37
» I kind of agree Posted by: Robba29
» RE: this was weird Posted by: caritasinveritate
» Wow Posted by: magoo65293
» OBAMA SCAMS POPE 2X Posted by: reelman

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Happy to see ladies supporting each other
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Posted by: TNT666 on Jul 7, 2009 2:04 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think a fundraiser party is a fantastic idea. If abortion had been as accepted when I had mine, I would not have had to borrow money from my mother! I would not have dreamed of having a fundraiser because so many people around me were not pro-choice.

I am very heart warmed that a young lady feels this comfortable with her peer group and her decision.

As for the guy, he is completely irrelevant to the decision-making process. But since his body was 50% responsible for the problem, it would be compassionate of him to contribute financially.

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» I agree Posted by: tymefornew
» RE: I agree Posted by: TNT666
» RE: I agree Posted by: MilesGregarius

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Post abortion party
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Posted by: sfortuna on Jul 7, 2009 3:17 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not only is the private PRE fundraiser a great idea, it makes great sense to follow it up with a POST abortion party. A fun POST party game that never fails is auctioning off the stem cells and placental blood on Ebay. The partygoers who guesses the winning bids without going over win a door prize. Some overseas drug makers pay INSANE amounts for that stuff, which will more than cover the cost of the abortion. Of course, you could get all traditional and just bake the contents into a pie to be shared by all, or use them as garden fertilizer, but in this tight economy a girl's gotta think of the Benjamins, right?

Other popular games could be pin the bloody coathanger on the politician, and the downstairs belly slide race, where pregnant gals can race to the bottom of the stairs face first in an attempt to dislodge the parasite growing inside her. Men, of course, are excluded from all games except Penis Pinata, where blindfolded women take swings at the guys testicles with a cricket bat until the offending organs are ground to a fine paste, suitable for a cracker spread.

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» RE: Post abortion party Posted by: Cory.Goodman
» Even though you speak in jest . . . Posted by: countingdaisies

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Putting the fun in fundraiser
[Report this comment]
Posted by: kittybrat on Jul 7, 2009 3:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think an abortion party to get up the money is a great idea who's time has come. Abortions are expensive.

I do feel sorry for the male involved. After all, they are a couple, they made the decision together and he is there to emotionally support her.
Too bad for the cold shoulder.

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Is this like some weird extrovert thing?
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Posted by: Jasonix on Jul 7, 2009 6:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a man and an introvert, so maybe I just don't understand the need to talk about one's unintended pregnancy and the need to party while doing so. If it were me, I'd quietly have it done and probably not tell a single soul about it. But whatever.

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» It's more than weird! Posted by: countingdaisies

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SICK SICK SICK
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Posted by: rastaman on Jul 7, 2009 6:38 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it's one thing to have an abortion.....it's ANOTHER thing to celebrate it.


this is precisely the idiots that we defend against Repuglicans saying that pro choice are "pro abortion"....and then another one of these brain dead ditzes proves it to them.


women in this country are childish and stoooooopid......and had better grow up....and fast.

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» RE: SICK SICK SICK Posted by: maglindracia
» RE: SICK SICK SICK Posted by: Sympa
» RE: SICK SICK SICK Posted by: TNT666
» RE: SICK SICK SICK Posted by: babs

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I see cheapening human life has reached a new low. You have made
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Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Jul 7, 2009 7:34 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the eugenicists & abortion industry very happy.

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Odd
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Posted by: Karina on Jul 7, 2009 7:49 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Perhaps we should have parties to pay for condoms and BC pills, or even tampons, or maybe a really nice vibrator.
Maggie's choice, Maggie's responsibility.

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» RE: Odd Posted by: TheExpatriate
» RE: Odd Posted by: Karina

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I'm not buying this story at all.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: clvngodess on Jul 7, 2009 7:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Smells of propagandist bullshit. It's not a tupperware decision. Plus, there are providers that can work with people who have financial challenges. So I hold to my not so humble opinion that this is inflammatory bullshit.

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» RE: I'm not buying this story at all. Posted by: MotherLodeBeth

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Progressives Should Favor Adoption
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Posted by: Human Being on Jul 7, 2009 8:09 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would urge Maggie and her boyfriend to create an adoption plan for their child.

Abortion is the Achilles heel of us progressives. We rightly agitate about war, poverty, cruelty against animals, ecological destruction, etc. But when it comes to sentient pre-birth humans, we're supposed to chuck all compassion and start prattling about "rights." This is hypocrisy of the absolute worst sort.

I can understand and respect Maggie's (and her boyfriend's) desire not to have their life plans interrupted by parenthood at this time. So the smart thing to do would be to contact an adoption agency now, rather than an abortion clinic, and give the child a chance to live a full life. Isn't that what we progressives claim we want for ALL people?

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» RE: Progressives Should Favor Adoption Posted by: punkrockhoneymama
» RE: Progressives Should Favor Adoption Posted by: punkrockhoneymama
» Not this progressive Posted by: sunspot

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A FEAST FOR THE PRO-LIFERS !!
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 7, 2009 8:09 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even if this is Bull---t, the anti abortion crazies will love it. It will end up all over their hate web sites. The author has proved their point better than they do. This is an attempt at sensationalism and it fails miserably. It cheapens and diminishes the whole abortion debate by turning it into entertainment. I'm pro choice and this trash serves no useful purpose to the cause. I hope NARAL gets a look at it. ANNA

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Bu Bye Alternet
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Posted by: Morganx on Jul 7, 2009 8:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This site is deteriorating so quickly. Must remove from blog rotation. You will print absolutely anything. Anything. CYA.

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» you're right Posted by: alizard

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My abortion story
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Posted by: Comrade Rutherford on Jul 7, 2009 9:00 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The one time I had to make that decision with my GF, it was very personal and intense. We didn't announce it, or have a fundraiser. It was our private decision and we had to scrape the money together ourselves.

I knew that ultimately the final decision was hers alone, but she was very keen on my input and my feelings. We made the decision together. I went with her to the clinic and waited for her and then took her home and took care of her while she recovered. Never once did we regret our decision to excise a clump of cells.

As to the story, I don't see anything wrong at all with having a fundraising party. No one is going to come to a fundraising wake. And an 8 week old fetus is NOT a baby!

Now that I am older and my wife and I have kids, I will tell you all that we had two full term stillbirths. Just because you decide not to abort your fetus is NO guarantee that you'll actually have a living baby! Babies die quite often actually for no reason science can find. I simply can't get all self-righteous about aborting fetuses. So get off your high horses and stop reveling in how other people make important decisions about their lives.

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» AMEN!!!!! Posted by: sunspot

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Unanswered questions
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Posted by: DaBear on Jul 7, 2009 9:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not being from Indiana (but knowing plenty of whackos from Ohio), I didn't "get" the skinny on the whole come-to-Ohio-for-your-abortion angle... nor did I get any closure on why Maggie seemed unhappy at her party.

The whole thing seemed perfectly fine to me, creative, responsible, and yeah, the questions raised by the author are pretty damned relevant, even if most 'Merkaaners can't handle grownup discourse yet. (Note how many anti-choice trolls and faux progs cropped up in the comments)

As to the whole "male" thing... I'm still amazed that aggression is the end-all definition of masculinity or "male" and female is rational reasonable and cooperative. I guess sexism is ALWAYS reactionary.

Also the whole notion that males are blankly unaffected by reproduction and reproductive choices, other than financial or as an emotionally supporting role, seems pretty demeaning and irresponsible if not wholly immature and non-functional. The author of the piece stated his own positionality quite well, but in the comments some people got really lost about the BF and the scope of his involvement.

While I would not pretend to speak for all males, as a male, I don't feel ambivalent or distant with respect to my own reproductive potential, actualized or terminated. I have a real problem with progeny in my absence. Every child I've co-created in this life was deliberately chosen and chosen with my being a Dad in mind, connected with co-creator female partner or not. The snip ultimately was the only way to ensure I controlled my own reproductivity. I'm grateful my co-creator female partner still wants me around... and that's a part of the scary vulnerable part of the male experience in reproduction NO ONE talks about (or apparently wants to, we're just thugs afterall). That kid is a part of me and not a part of me... that's pretty damned important. When we weren't ready or we couldn't afford to, we didn't follow the parental path to its fruition. Thankfully we had the safe legal choice technology and hard won civil rights affords most of us. But Men are much more than sperm donors and wallets, we are whole human people too, and we males do have to recognize there are limits since the lionshare of the heavy lifting initially ain't gonna be us for nine months. Sounds to me like Maggie's got a keeper in her BF and her friends who dissed on the guy need to grow up some more.

Men have a LOT more work to do on each other.... time to move past the aggression definition and the financial boundary limit if we're going to be partners. For me the mono-dimensional-male model was one of the unanswered questions that leaves me feeling so bleak...

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never
[Report this comment]
Posted by: sureshot45 on Jul 7, 2009 9:32 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
would i 'donate' money for my friends irresponsible behavior. she could have saved herself the trouble and used a condom for less than a dollar. idiot.

im pro choice, but this is the reason the repubs have so much ammo. this is the stupidest thing i have read in a really long time..and i visit alternet frequently..which says a lot.

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» RE: never Posted by: MT512
» RE: never? Really? Posted by: DaBear
» RE: never Posted by: maglindracia

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Something is not clear here.
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Posted by: maddy on Jul 7, 2009 10:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not sure why the women were collectively angry at the boyfriend. If he was trying to coerce the girl in one direction or the other, then I could understand it. But, if the women decided he was the "enemy" out of some political bs, then that doesn't mean that the women in said instance were acting "male." It means they were acting like immature douchebags.

Nor do I understand why it's the "compassionate" decision for any person to remain silent out of some wouldbe political deference to the "oppressed." I used to hear this crap all of the time from liberal whites in college classes about race and racism--that they were obligated to remain silent and obedient to the students of color in the room as some kind of anti-racist solidarity. I'd even have white students write in their papers that they couldn't engage a black writer on principle because they couldn't, as a white person, understand said person's experience. My favorite example was when I was leading an impromptu conversation about racism on campus and a white student interrupted us and, angrily, said that we "needed to stop talking because we should not discuss race without a person of color present."

I thought then, and do now, that such a position was nothing but rank cowardice and a skewed brand of leftist politics. It's a basic disrepect to refuse to engage with someone on the grounds that you're somehow honoring them as you do so--it's condescending, patronizing, and fundamentally dishonest.

So, to start, don't give me this crap that "good" (i.e. feminist-leaning) men cannot participate in the abortion debate. Of course you can. If your male friend was hurting at the thought of losing his child, he has a right to that pain, and he also has a right to expect your support. Supporting him doesn't change your position on abortion rights. Challenging these girls on their behavior shouldn't either.

This shouldn't be surprising, but there are folks on the left who can be rigidly dogmatic--even bullying--about their politics. I tend to understand it as a youth thing--a kind of fierce protection resulting from the person feeling that they're under seige all of the time. But, I'm sorry, it's fine to say that you're prochoice but unwilling to watch an innocent person be vilified. It's also fine to say that, at a minimum, that the "open celebration" of a friend's abortion as described herein is tacky and immature, and does nothing to advance pro-choice politics or a feminism that includes men.

This kind of "I can't say what I really feel because I'm privileged" is EXACTLY why the right thinks liberals are weak and pathetic. Integrity should not be set in opposition to loyalty. Period.

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» Very well said Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: Very well said Posted by: humblesound
» RE: Very well said Posted by: Illiteratilumen

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Selfishness on Display!
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Posted by: sakul72 on Jul 7, 2009 10:34 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow, this is just crazy. There are actual women like this in the world? If you don't want a baby, don't get pregnant.. If you do get pregnant take some responsibility women...! Grow up for crying out loud! You are celebrating the death of another human being.

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» RE: Selfishness on Display! Posted by: sakul72
» RE: Selfishness on Display! Posted by: humblesound
» RE: Selfishness on Display! Posted by: TheExpatriate
» RE: Selfishness on Display! Posted by: sakul72

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I’ll by voting against abortion to promote gender equality.
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Posted by: Honky the Nihilist X on Jul 7, 2009 7:45 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would support a women aborting her parental responsibility post conception but since men can’t, I’ll do my best to take away that choice from women.

Men are slaves, a violation of the 13th amendment, to a bastard kid.

Men are not provided equal protection under the law as guaranteed by the 14th amendment.

Women will tell a man that wants to abort his responsibility to a child, “Responsibility”, “Too bad”, “shoulda used protection”, “innocent little baby”. We’ll bitches, ditto.

P.S. I’d love meet chicks at an abortion party.

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This author is jumping to conclusions
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Posted by: Malou on Jul 7, 2009 10:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He doesn't really know what was going on with the boyfriend. He bases all of his conjecture on rumors and speculation. This is not a good point of departure for a meaningful discussion about the role of men in women's choices.

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» Agreed Posted by: soleta_nf

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Not sure if I'm buying this story, either...
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Posted by: Quannah on Jul 7, 2009 11:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but that's neither here nor there, really. Assuming it is true, who cares? It isn't anybody's business. Maggie and her boyfriend have the right to do whatever they choose. Using a creative way to try to fund an expensive medical procedure doesn't seem wrong at all to me.

People are awfully judgemental here today!

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This is like a parody....
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Posted by: morticia on Jul 7, 2009 11:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And a stupid, destructive one, at that.

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» 1-rater: Posted by: morticia
» RE: 1-rater: Posted by: morticia
» RE: 1-rater: Posted by: morticia
» RE: 1-rater: Posted by: Quannah
» RE: 1-rater: Posted by: morticia
» RE: 1-rater: Posted by: Quannah
» RE: 1-rater: Posted by: sakul72
» Try me! Posted by: morticia

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What the h*ll is a three-year-old doing at a party at 11pm?!
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Posted by: bkochandco on Jul 7, 2009 12:09 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a liberal, a feminist and rabidly pro-choice but I have to ask-what the h*ll is a three-year-old doing at a party at 11pm?! I am also the responsible parent of a teenager. If you do bring a child into the world, they come first. If you can't find a babysitter so you can attend a party, you DON'T go! The woman who decided to have an abortion was, by far, the most responsible "parent" in the room!

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slow news day in the depths of summer again...
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Posted by: ellie on Jul 7, 2009 3:03 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
you guys at alternet need to do some thinking about content... seems that since the election, at least to me, your story lines are heading into enquirer territory...

can we please have some real, adult, mature, thought provoking content for a change???

ps... did anyone think to checks the 'facts' in this story??? is it made up of bull, a straw man scenario or heading towards another battle over vegetarianism which is beyond boring...

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AlterNet Should Know Better
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Posted by: Lilly on Jul 7, 2009 4:00 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a lifelong, pro-choice, Kennedy-and-Obama Democrat; I believe in abortion on demand; I think the state should pay for abortions when the woman can't, and I THINK THIS ARTICLE WAS DISGUSTING. I go to right-wingers' websites and read about their longing to replace our Judiciary with military tribunals after which they intend to execute all federal employees, and I think "these people are nuts". Then I come here and see that the left is just as bad as the right. I don't see that AlterNet advanced anything worth advancing by publishing this piece.

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Carrying the Torch for Nothing: Third Wavers Unite, or is Untie?
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Posted by: ladyoracle on Jul 7, 2009 8:10 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am totally prochoice and am glad that "Maggie" had friends to support her and I am equally glad that she had the guy who helped create the problem also standing by her side. I am not as tolerant as the author seems to be of women who could not embrace this boyfriend. Unless, as another poster said, the guy was pressuring her choice, they should have been kissing his ass for his not cutting and running on the "p" word followed by the "a" word.

I would absolutely attend a party raising money for an abortion, and I see nothing anti-feminist about it, except the way the guy was treated, unless there's backstory missing.

However, I am concerned about the 3-yr old at a party so late at night. The author as well as the other people at the party seem too irresponsible, self-absorbed, and flaky to have intelligent ideas about what "choice" really means. It's clear that Maggie wasn't ready for motherhood, and that's fine, but I wonder if once the undergraduate high wears off a lot of the people who were at the party will rethink how they acted that night and what it really meant. It seems like it ended up meaning nothing. That is sad.

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Lot of misguided rage in the comments section today...
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Posted by: humblesound on Jul 8, 2009 1:48 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a little confused:

There are people here who are vehemently opposed to this party happening. They frown completely on the actions of that woman and would love to shame her for it. Okay...

But why are you shaming Alternet for this article? A narrative thing that someone wrote explaining their experience attending and being a part of something they were both taken aback by and had never seen before.

How is that sort of personal diary style journalism the thing that needs to be burned to the fucking ground on your witch hunt?

This article's fine.

Now the nonstop articles telling us we need to stop eating meat based on what our teeth look like? Those could go.

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good idea
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Posted by: jayteapee on Jul 8, 2009 8:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i like it. there's nothing draconian here. let's face it, we don't debate about calling eggs chickens until they hatch. what's with all "special" and "life" talk about a fertilized human egg? sheesh...all this magic and reverence is pretty amusing. an abortion party is a great idea to raise funds and just talk straight about an overblown issue.

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Why not adoption? some ask
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Posted by: Old Skeptic on Jul 8, 2009 9:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In order for this embryo to come to term and be born, then adopted, the woman involved (a.k.a. the mother) has to be willing to endure 9 months of often very unpleasant and uncomfortable pregnancy, hours of agonizing labor and childbirth, and be willing to risk her health, and even her life, if something goes terribly wrong. A woman might be willing to go through all of this and more to bring forth a wanted child, that she and possibly her beloved, will want, cherish, and provide for. Asking her to undergo all this to bring forth a child she doesn't want, cannot afford, or that may have a serious defect is absurd.

It is interesting that the loudest voices in the anti-choice crowd always seem to belong to men, who by grace of a fortunate "Y" chromosome are forever protected from having to make this decision for their own bodies. I strongly suspect that if men could get pregnant, abortion would be a total non-issue and birth control would be a sacrament.

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Ironic post from Old Skeptic
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Posted by: enough already.... on Jul 8, 2009 11:10 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, old skeptic's post is very ironic. Poll after poll show that in the U.S. men support abortion rights more than women do. In fact, the demographic group that is most in favor of abortion is men in their 20's. Again, polls show that women in that age group tend to be more pro-life than pro-choice. Favorable opinion of abortion trails off for both sexes in older age groups. Wonder why that is?

Interestingly, recent polls indicate that being pro-abortion (which was in a pretty much a satistical dead-heat with being pro-life) has recently declined U.S. wide. For the first time in a few decades, the U.S. is pretty firmly pro-life.

These are facts, not opinions. Flame all you want, but that's what it is.

Now a question.... could it be that being pro-choice only serves to further victimize women? It seems young men in national polls certainly think its a good thing to have responsibility-free sex, and it seems that women think differently.

Now another question.... can anyone give a good answer on why a fetus (whatever stage) is not a human. Just saying its a clump of cells, or that it doesn't look like a human are not answers. Those are called conclusory assertions, without any basis other than one's own knee jerk opinion. I'd like to see a truly reasoned opinion on the matter. Note that I like Paglia's answer to the question a great deal... that abortion is killing a human, but that she's still pro-choice. At least that's intellectually honest.

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» RE: Ironic post from Old Skeptic Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: Ironic post from Old Skeptic Posted by: photon's feather
» and that altar servers Posted by: goatini

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ML561
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ML561 on Jul 8, 2009 2:40 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think it should be a lot easier for people to adopt children. Doesn't anyone find it strange that in the United States, people have to practically be saints in order to become adoptive parents (and never mind gay couples, everybody knows they are pedophiles--just being sarcastic here--). yet so many completely irresponsible people have children of their own and end up abusing them or neglecting them, but this is considered their "right". Also, I believe that much more support is needed for women who are faced with unexpected pregnancies, so that they can get the medical care and other things they need, whether they choose to give the child up for adoption or to keep the baby. I've seen a lot on this post about "women need to grow up.", which I am assuming means that women need to take responsibility for their actions. HELLO!
It takes TWO to create a baby. Women don't get pregnant all by their lonesome. Men need to be taught some sort of sexual responsibility as well. It is simply not true that boys can't keep it in their pants, and that it is the woman who bears the burden should things get out of hand. I feel the abortion party was in bad taste as were many of the comments regarding it, including some of the profanity..let's keep it clean, please, and try to have some intelligent and thoughtful discourse.

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» RE: ML561 Posted by: maglindracia

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What a shame
[Report this comment]
Posted by: fosterdad on Jul 8, 2009 4:26 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So many couples like my wife and I want to adopt and cannot because of women like your friend. What a shame. She had a choice and could have made three people happy beyond words. Instead, all that's left is a child in a garbage can and another couple will have to wait even longer.

What a shame.

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» RE: What a shame Posted by: faerietails
» RE: What a shame Posted by: sakul72
» RE: What a shame Posted by: MilesGregarius
» RE: What a shame Posted by: sakul72
» picky picky picky Posted by: goatini
» RE: What a shame Posted by: fosterdad
» so what? Posted by: goatini
» no one is obligated Posted by: goatini
» RE: no one is obligated Posted by: fosterdad
» YES, it is wrong. Posted by: goatini
» RE: YES, it is wrong. Posted by: fosterdad
» PS, a FETUS is not a CHILD Posted by: goatini
» fetuses are not children Posted by: mcubed
» RE: fetuses are not children Posted by: sakul72
» RE: no one is obligated Posted by: fosterdad
» RE: no one is obligated Posted by: Quannah
» thank you Q, my friend, Posted by: goatini
» Bullseye, goatini... Posted by: morticia
» not my piece, mort, Posted by: goatini
» "I have 2 kids now" Posted by: goatini
» yeah, i would hate to see Posted by: goatini
» RE: What a shame Posted by: TNT666
» well, of course, Posted by: goatini
» RE: What a shame Posted by: login@bugmenot.com

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Is there at least one Liberal woman that knows what responsibility means?
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Posted by: sakul72 on Jul 9, 2009 5:45 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just curious if there is at least one liberal woman that knows what the term personal responsibility means? It means taking care of yourself and taking responsibility for what you do, good or bad. It means not taking the easy way out when you make a mistake.. It means owning up to what you do and being grown up enough to do the right thing about it.

Seems that is a rare thing with liberal women these days... It is extremely unattractive to a man looking for a mate, but hell yeah if you are just looking for a good time...

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» Yo! sakul72! Question for you! Posted by: morticia
» Glad to see... Posted by: morticia
» RE: Glad to see... Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Glad to see... Posted by: morticia
» RE: Glad to see... Posted by: sakul72
» RE: Glad to see... Posted by: morticia
» RE: Glad to see... Posted by: sakul72
» I asked you if.... Posted by: morticia
» Responsibility for children Posted by: mcubed

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Why that smells like....
[Report this comment]
Posted by: login@bugmenot.com on Jul 9, 2009 7:50 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The whole thing reads like fiction, I for one call BS. Either that or these two people are so clearly unfit to bear or raise a child that this was the best course of action. But I still go with BS.

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I wouldn't try the punch, that's for sure
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Posted by: Hillymeg on Jul 9, 2009 2:19 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thought your piece was very well written and, for the most part, well thought out. (I also thought that the jezebel.com folk really missed the point when they ranted about how, as a man, you don't 'get it'). However, I was surprised by the lack of, well, surprise you seemed to show at "Maggie's" macabre party. On Everyday Ethics, we're asking readers to comment on the morality of "Maggie's" action.

bit.ly/15Ht7j

Hope you'll comment too!

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Did this get posted...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Robba29 on Jul 9, 2009 10:44 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
to some pro-life, psycho christian website? Who are all these nutcases who showed up here? At least discuss the article, don't be a bunch of whiny dicks!

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» FETUS is not a BABY Posted by: goatini

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????
[Report this comment]
Posted by: daved on Jul 10, 2009 10:27 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I read this story, I almost came out of my shoes. Who was this woman? What kind of people would go to such a "party"? If a friend of mine had a party to raise money because she and her partner were too stupid and irresponsible to either take precautions or just keep it in their pants, that would be the last time I would be speaking to her. Let alone expecting her friends to foot the bill for her to kill her baby?!!!! Has the whole world gone crazy?

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At what point do we get real about our 'roles' in abortion?
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Posted by: kmby06 on Jul 11, 2009 9:44 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a woman who has gone through an abortion and the emotional difficulties afterward, reading this article makes me saddened at the supposed irreverence of the woman's friends. I still feel strongly that I made the right decision at 20, with no financial ability, emotional ability, or parenting partnership with the 'father' of the fetus, but it was still not an easy decision to come to and grapple with at a young age and little in the way of life experience to help guide me.

The fact that her partner was willing to support her in the decision should NEVER be miscounted. So many women go through abortions in silence, with a fear of stigma and rejection. Had my partner been there for me emotionally, I would have handled the situation much better, and wouldn't have gone through multiple levels of depression afterwards. This woman's 'friends' are arrogant and misguided clowns that are the reason women get viewed in a harsh light as far as our rights to our bodies are concerned. No one but the woman in question has the right to say who is 'supposed' to be a pillar of support through a trying time, and furthermore assuming he should be pony-ing up the money for the abortion seems to contradict the idea of the woman managing everything, decision and procedure on her own.

To anyone with a more modest view on abortion or looking for reasons to stand against a pro-choice lifestyle, please don't take this superficial article as the standard for modern women and our right to choose. Some people just want to make a shock statement.

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THE WRITER HITS THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!!!
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Posted by: AZLBRAX07 on Jul 11, 2009 2:00 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This quote says it all and succinctly sums up what's totally wrong with today's so-called "liberals":

"These were liberal people, after all… I couldn’t help but notice how aggressive…their attitudes became when confronted with the issue of a woman’s right to choose. It was almost as if, in the process of upholding an ideal of openness and acceptance, they had fallen victim to the same forces they were trying to critique."

I have noticed how hypocritical, vitriolic, downright fanatical and narrow-minded many of the people who respond to the articles on 'Alternet.org' tend to be...at least, when one offers a reasonable opinion that isn't in lock-step with The Party Line. Then again, 'Alternet.org' is equally hypocritical in the way certain responses are "censored"…even though those responses don't stray from the guidelines we, all, agreed to.

It would appear that the New Left is nothing but the reverse side of the same smarmy coin the Neocons are on!

FYI: I am pro-choice in ALL things, not just a woman's right to choose!!!

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Isn't it better.....
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Posted by: ms_happy on Jul 13, 2009 3:07 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
....to nip a potentially negative consequence in the bud? Those of you complaining about how ditzy the 22-year-old is and what a shame she is having an abortion - hmmm, would you rather this ditzy woman bring ANOTHER UNWANTED CHILD into our world and burden the rest of us with it? Having her carry the child to term - a nine-month sentence - in order to deliver it into the arms of someone who wants to adopt? Nice thought, but I wouldn't put my life on hold for nine months when the biggest problem we have as a society right now is TOO MANY PEOPLE. It's interesting how the abortion issue resonates with nutcases who drive around town in trucks plastered with bloody fetuses, or who bomb women's clinics and murder gynecologists. "Right to life," my derriere. These mysogynists who prey on women are the lowest form of terrorist and it's too bad their moms didn't exercise their right to choose prior to unleashing these social miscreants on the world. As to the party to "celebrate" abortion - a little weird, but what the heck - it's a whole 'nother generation.

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» RE: Isn't it better..... Posted by: sakul72

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This Did Not Happen.
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Posted by: LEB on Jul 14, 2009 7:53 AM   
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I really 100 percent believe this is made up.

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How About A questionnaire!
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Posted by: sakul72 on Jul 14, 2009 8:39 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How about this, if women want an on demand abortion, they can get one if they pass a lie detector test, or any other such test that would PROVE answers..

The question could be:

did you honestly attempt birth control, and the condom broke, or whatever.. the bc failed..

or

is it a provable fact that this baby will be better of DEAD in a garbage can than living, breathing etc..

and/or

you can prove that you are a responsible person, that this was a grave mistake and not just an easy way to get out of irresponsible and selfish behavior.

and/or

rape or medical necessity

..

then you cave have an abortion. Does that WORK?

Inconvenience is NEVER a valid reason for the death of a human being... well, unless you are high up in the Bush administration...

(and in this hypothetical situation, there is no BEATING the lie detector test, etc.)

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» RE: How About A questionnaire! part 2 Posted by: MilesGregarius
» good one! Posted by: goatini
» RE: good one! Posted by: sakul72
» ah. the plot thickens Posted by: goatini

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Celebrating is GOOD
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Posted by: login@bugmenot.com on Jul 14, 2009 10:07 AM   
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/abortioncelebration

**no one is celebrating the act of aborting..no one here goes "oh goody, an abortion"

the people here are celebrating that we had the choice to abort...that it was available..we weren't forced to carry to term despite risk to our lives..emotional and physical health...etc..etc...**

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Scary as fu** article...seriously?...is this guy telling the truth?
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Posted by: bnvasquez on Jul 14, 2009 4:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is probably one of the most creepiest things I've ever read (and not because the title has the phrase "abortion party"). I highly doubt that this happened. I really think this guy is a conservative trying to make feminists look like evil women or something. Where are the guys voices in this issue? WELL YOU WERE OBVIOUSLY TOO BUSY BASHING WOMEN TO ASK THIS DUDE HUH?

Give me a break. Read the article more closely and I really wish Alternet could read the stuff it puts on the front of the website. This disgustingly written piece full of subliminal messages needs to be analyzed way differently than everyone is looking at it...

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Survival pressure.
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Posted by: wagadog on Jul 14, 2009 10:09 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How are you going to afford to bring a child into the world when you can barely even afford an abortion?

Even if they had health insurance (which I doubt) it typically does not cover health-related travel such as having a newborn medivac'ed to a facility that can handle many serious complications of birth, and certainly will not cover ALL the costs (been to the hospital lately?).

And yes, as a woman, she will need whatever degree she can get just to be able to afford to feed and clothe herself in this economy. She can expect to make what a (male) high school drop-out earns.

Women have abortions under survival pressure. Not "selfishness", survival pressure.

That her friends turned a fund-raiser into a macabre anti-celebration and vilification of the boyfriend is just an expression of collective frustration at a no-win situation.

Welcome to America. Where, if female, you don't even deserve to LIVE if no man wants you or your baby.

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LET'S TELL THIS LIKE IT REALLY IS:
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Posted by: AZLBRAX07 on Jul 16, 2009 11:48 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They're not pro-life, they're ANTI-CHOICE!

They are not the "religious right" because they are neither!

They are, simply, pathetic low-lifes who need to force you to "believe" as they do because, by so doing, they can believe their specious crap that much better.

You know: if they tell the same "fable" enough times, it becomes true!

Hal-lay-lew-yah, sweeeeeet jeeeeee-zus!

Amen.

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tiffany jewellery
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Posted by: ekoljos on Jul 18, 2009 9:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Fundraiser= Job
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Posted by: Phe on Jul 21, 2009 1:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't understand how a person who calls themselves an adult, with rights to adult privileges that cost money and not have a job. Seriously. College student or not an "independent" adult without a job or their own source of income is an oxymoron.

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