and they are too stupid to see that their own actions belie their moniker of "Pro-Life" when they can gun down a doctor entering his church. It's irony overload.

This guy is a TERRORIST. Are they bringing to bear the full weight of Federal Law Enforcement to look for him? Will they put him in detention and torture him until he gives up his accomplices? Will they treat him in the same manner they do Muslims? Of course not.

We can bet he's some religious wacko "doing god's work saving innocent life."

We're headed for a civil war in this country.

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Men never do evil so cheerfully and completely as when thy do it from relgious motivation. Religion cloakes evil passions, often encouraged by scripture. The bible revels in depravity.

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The murder today of Dr. Tiller was unequivocally wrong.

I find all acts of violence abhorrent and do not appreciate the stereotyping done on this site towards pro-lifers, especially since many more left-wing pro-lifers are emerging in the younger generation.

I understand this issue is controversial and deeds like this inflame the prejudices but realize that the left is not monolithic on this issue. I for instance am a Buddhist and believe in the

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.

#@!

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the title says it all.
murder is never prolife -- no matter what you believe. anyone who calls himself prolife and murders someone for not being prolife and for not conforming to prolife beliefs in their actions pretty much deserves whatever happens to them as a result. i know that sounds harsh but i am at my limit with these fanatics.
this is a perfect illustration of the problem with fanatics and fundamentalists. they are capable of doing whatever it takes to make sure you live the way they believe you should. there really is no basis for compromise or rational discussion with these folks.
finally, it is one more example that these folks AREN'T PROLIFE, they're just antiabortion.

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now, with this murder today, 3 doctors and 5 other people have been killed to date by so-called pro-lifers in the name of protecting life. msnbc.com has a history of violence committed by pro-lifers included with their update on this news item.

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Tiller's death was not surprising, considering the strange beliefs pumped into millions of gullible ears every Sunday. The abortion issue is especially important to Christians not because they value life -- consider how they eagerly send people to death row despite the 130 or so exonerations by DNA, and how willing they are to blow up brown-skinned children in unnecessary wars -- but because abortion challenges the myth of the soul.

The peculiar and absurd notion that a human identity, a soul, is magically inserted into the human egg at the moment of conception lies at the very heart of Christian dogma. The Christian cadre know that if this little fairytale ever becomes too hard for the public to swallow, their iron grip on the Western world will be loosened considerably. Hence the hysterical rhetoric about abortion, which most often involves extracting a jelly-bean-size zygote. Of course, the Bible-thumpers use manipulated photos to make aborted fetuses look like fully developed people, all the better to tug at the heartstrings of their gullible flock.

What's really amazing is that reasonably intelligent people still describe themselves as "pro-life" when that sentiment is attached to a long string of horrific crimes in recent years. To be really pro-life is to be pro-choice, and to value all human life, not just the undeveloped fetuses that are used as pawns by right-to-lifers.

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Thou hypocrites, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Matthew 7:5

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A lot of people on the Left so hate Dick Cheney, as an example, that we wish for him to pass away, even if most of us want him to first be tried, then executed lawfully for his many crimes against humanity.

But people on the Left don't go off the deep-end and murder someone because of political differences, even if the person who would otherwise be murdered deserved wholly to be killed.

No, it is the "pro-life" crowd that supports murderous wars based on lies, and supports torture and sexual violence, even against innocent people. It is the "pro-life" crowd that commits TERRORISM on US soil.

And what gets me is that the perpetrator shot the doctor at church, sacred ground. This is likely sick from the murderer's own perspective, where religion and "God" supposedly mean something.

I have to admit, I used to be pro-life, yet I was still liberal. But to see all the raving IDIOTS who shared my pro-life stance, that turned me around.
I no longer can associate myself with such hypocrites.

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im sure he got his instructions from god to blow tiller away. These nuts make me sick, save the unborn so they can grow up and enjoy killing for god and country, support capital punishment, own a gun and can't wait to use it, to "right" the world.

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Dr Tiller was a courageous man who performed procedures few others dared because he believed that women have a right to determine for themselves whether to carry a pregnancy to term. He could have made far more money and lived a much more comfortable--and longer--life doing other things professionally. He was not the ogre, the crazed baby killer, that the far right has made him out to be.

The Bible is silent on abortion, except for one passage where the penalty for assaulting a pregnant woman and causing her to lose the fetus is to pay damages to the father; it was not the penalty for murder, which was death.

Abortion was common in the Roman Empire of Jesus's era, but none of his biographers records him as saying anything about it, which would surely not be the case if he had been even remotely as concerned about it as many of his putative followers today. Jewish theology of that day held that the soul entered the body with the first breath at birth.

Obama's attempt to find common ground is admirable, but unlikely to dissuade the irrational, vengeful extremists who imagine, like Bush and Obama in their warmongering, that they are doing God's work by slaughtering others--people with names, relationships, and lives of their own.

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This issue has nothing to do with heaven, religion, or the bible only...it has to do with human rights...all men being created equal having the right to pursue life, liberty, and happines...it is called the Constitution. And if you are concerned about human rights, then you should be a pro-lifer...it is the same group of people who fought against slavery...the Christian Right and Republican Party..check your history. The Dems were for slavery and now are the ones against babies...how arrogant to decide who deserves unalienable rights and who is human.

The slave owner claimed " Propert Rights" the abortionist claim "Privacy Rights"...those rights are not relevent when it means denying another human being of their right to live. I am not saying this doctor should have been shot, but if it was a slave owner that was shot you would be happy...same principle.

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He wasn't murdered, it was just a very, very late term abortion.

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"Right to Life", unless you disagree slightly, in which case it's their "Right to Kill." I think George Carlin pointed out the inconsistency and capricious nature of these dogmatists best when he pointed out how they are usually pro-capital punishment, "I guess it's all about the timing...."

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What happened to day was an act of domestic terrorism, among several done against those who preform abortions. Those that violently assult and kill persons or attack the facilites that do abortions are usually religiously motivated to a preverse level, believing that they will enter Heaven for sure as they took the life or prevented Abortions. They are no different than Timothy McVey, or the 9/11 terrorists.
How many others who provide abortion services will be killed? How many who do abortions will face pressure from their families, their insurers, their peers, their neighbors, and thier communities to quit providing abortion services. That is part of the reasons for such terror acts, to put fear and scare those that do abortions to quit. How many women will turn away from chosing an abortion, fearful of being attacked or even killed themselves?
No matter how one believe in the moral issues of abortion, no one has the right to kill those that provide the procedure.

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to include those who wear no uniform but die fighting for freedom. Dr. Tiller joins Martin Luther King, James Chaney, Andrew Goodman, Michael Schwerner, Medgar Evers, Joe Hill, and so many, many others, all over the world.

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Never ever call them "pro-life". They've always been pro-death and will stay that way. Any questions?

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...and then punish them accordingly.

This religious bullshit is for the birds. There are political ministrations, and there are criminal acts. Why are you people so confused?

I'd say fry the bastard, but I'm against the death penalty, so I hope he gets caught and rots in jail forever.

Your political bullshit is lost on me?

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No townhall articles are up yet about the Tiller killing but there are several excerpts from blogs, followed as always on TH by long threads of comments. Townhallers are cheering Tillman's death and high-fiving one another. There's a lot of "eye for an eye" philosophy and "he had it coming". And of course plenty of sanctimonious "I am shocked, shocked".

Scott Roeder's own contributions can be found on the Operation Rescue website, rallying his troops a while back.

My first thought when I heard of the murder was "I wonder which townhall regular did it" as several of them often advocate murder.

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As an atheist who thinks that killing a fourty year old morally is the same thing as killing a fetus, I do not think that I sould be associated with two groups.

Number one. Those who advocate using violence against violence.

Number two. Those who believe in an invisible person with a go-tee that cares whether you actually sing in church.

Some posts responding to this article categorize into either one or both of these categories. Please stop.

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It's because of Randall Terry Dr Tiller was assassinated. Of course the FBI isn't going to put him on the no fly list. The FBI won't even go question him. The DHS is a scam on the people of The US with CIA, FBI agents in all major US cities coupled with the Fusion Centers and Joint Terrorism Task Forces not concerned one bit with Randall Terry and his assassiation sheep running where ever they want to go for their next assassination. I am totally disgusted with US security apparatuses spying on all the people for peace while letting the Randall Terry's proliferate whatever assassination next planned.

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...That same God that told George W. Bush about the WMDs and how he was gonna rid th' world of evildoers? Yep, sure sounds like that same God. That Old Testament God, the one who smites you down if you dare question him. The one who is always right, no matter what the facts are.

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Don't miss the media manipulation here.

In all of the television coverage, George Tiller was called the "late-term abortion doctor".

The fact is that he was a gynecologist who ran a women's health clinic. His practice included pregnancy termination as well as birth control and other health issues. He had stated in response to questioning that he had performed *LEGAL* abortions up to 25 weeks because the health of the mother was threatened.

It's a terrible day for women's rights. But I know this case will also be a the death-knell for whatever movement it is that feels that the life of the fetus is precious (except for the ones who are made because of rape or incest--I never quite got that one) and feels that God has made its members the arbiters of who shall live and who shall die.

I hope they meet the fate of every mere mortal who decides he knows the mind of God. If you read your Bible, God judges such things very harshly.

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The REAL reasons the "pro-lifers" oppose abortion is that it removes power from the religious patriarchy and places it with women; and...GASP...the women had SEX, maybe...GASP...unconventional sex outside marriage!!! MERCY ME! It is all about controlling sex and imposing religion. They don't really care about the widdle biddy fetuses. When they drop their hypocrisy and become opposed to the death penalty, become completely anti-war, and become pro-birth control, then they will develop some legitimacy.

Right now, their belief system can be summed up by "yes we are opposed to abortion, but it is okay to kill born kids with bombs and missiles."

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re fuzzy

"We also ask our readers to refrain from responding to posts by people who only want to derail the conversation with conservative talking points. Please report these comments; do not respond."

a quote from the post a comment page on alternet.

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I have often wondered why you lefties are so wrong on every issue. How you could be anti-capital punishment, but pro-abortion? You can be free speech but push to deny kids the right to pray at school. Your “pro-science” yet refuse to consider viable scientific theory that is an alternative to evolution. You are hypocrites all they way around.

I figured it out. You don't "care" about the detainees in Gitmo. You don't care about the mothers; you don't care about the guys on death row, you certanily don't care about babies.

You just hate rules, absolute rights and wrongs; because if there is a creator, he made rules. If someone is on death row, it’s because someone made rules. If someone wants to stop the murder of innocent babies it is because of a clear set of moral boundaries.

If there are these boundaries then you have to actually face the fact you are immoral and wrong and that just rubs you raw.

You truly are the most immature, selfish, and adolescent minded people I have ever met.

You are not trying to increase freedom and opportunity. You are trying to erase any line that separates right from wrong so you don't have to feel so aggravated when you are confronted with it.

You are not for opportunity. You are for everyone to be the same...no morals, no sense of ethics. The best way to be able to stay in the mud is to try to get everyone else dirty.

By the way…you say I am an extremist. Let me break it to you. You fringers are the extremists. I hold the same basic views of a lot of people both currently and historically (because it is the right view based on reality). You partial birth death advocates, tree hugging homosexuals are the minority. So the "extremist" definition fits you much better.

As one of you said earlier…there is a civil war on the way…if the civil process fails, you better believe it. Someone has to stand up against the murder of innocent babies and the immorality that destroys a society.

I hope you find salvation through Jesus Christ the one you despise so much. He suffered despite the contradiction of sinners against themselves. And no, Jesus was not anti-war, so if need be there are plenty of us Christians who will fight to preserve true freedom and opportunity which is found in a moral society.


Have fun ripping this post...though I am sure it will not make you feel any better with the misery and unhappiness you live with everyday.

I am finally leaving this room and no, it is not becuase I just couldn't handle your depth of knowledge and enlightenmnt. I have a job, a family, and a very happy life. Man if feels so good to be RIGHT!

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In the wake of the murder of abortion provider, Dr. George Tiller, who always wore a button saying "Trust Women", this article from Revcom.us is a must read.

The Deadly Illusion of “Common Ground” on Abortion

Response to Obama’s speech at Notre Dame on common ground and abortion
By Sunsara Taylor

In the weeks leading up to Barack Obama’s delivery of the commencement address at the University of Notre Dame, the national eye was drawn once again to the question of women’s right to abortion. Anti-abortion Catholics and Christian fundamentalists, many of whom have been at the heart of some of the most violent tactics against doctors, women and clinics, descended on the campus. They trespassed. They got arrested. They put up billboards. More than 70 bishops condemned Notre Dame’s decision.

However, on March 17, when graduation day finally arrived, Obama received a standing ovation upon entrance, a glowing introduction from the Catholic president of the university, and repeated cheers as he spoke.

In his speech, Obama called for “fair-minded words” on both sides of the abortion issue. He called on people to express their differences but not to demonize those who think differently than themselves. He called for “common ground” and pointed to where he felt this could be found, as well as some of the challenges he sees in achieving it.

To many, these were reasonable words. To many, the response to him by the overwhelming majority of the student body—together with a significant number of prominent Catholic figures—represents motion in a positive direction.

But, when Obama speaks of “common ground” on abortion, he is not standing on some neutral “middle ground”—he is accepting the terms of the anti-abortion movement and adapting aspects of a pro-choice position into that framework while gutting the heart of the abortion-rights position. In so doing, he is legitimizing and strengthening a viciously anti-woman program while both abandoning the much needed fight to expand access to abortion and birth control and giving up the moral and ideological basis on which the pro-choice position stands.

Much of what is wrong with Obama’s approach is concentrated in a few key sentences of Obama’s speech, where he speaks directly to the question of abortion:

“Maybe we won’t agree on abortion, but we can still agree that this is a heart-wrenching decision for any woman to make, with both moral and spiritual dimensions. So let’s work together to reduce the number of women seeking abortions by reducing unintended pregnancies, and making adoptions more available, and providing care and support for women who do carry their child to term.”

First, and very importantly, abortion is not a “heart-wrenching decision for any woman to make.” A great many women are not conflicted at all about their abortions. Many feel relief and even joy at having their lives and their futures more fully back in their control.

This is as it should be. The simple fact is that a fetus is not a baby, it is a subordinate part of a woman’s body. A woman has no moral obligation to carry a fetus to term simply because she gets pregnant. And a woman who chooses at whatever point and for whatever reason to terminate a pregnancy, should feel fine about doing so and should be able to.

When it comes to abortion, there really is only one moral question: Will women be free to determine their own lives, including whether and when they will bear children, or will women be subjugated to patriarchal male authority and forced to breed against their will? ....

Read the complete article at http://www.revcom.us/a/166/ST_on_Obama-en.html

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Perhaps the case for systematic extermination of our offspring is not as airtight as some would hope for.

Perhaps we should call on the persons perpetuating the practice through irresponsible behavior to step up to the plate and start acting "somewhat" responsible.

Or is it asking to much to use a fu@#$ing rubber to save the necessity to exterminate a potential human life.

I see and hear a lot of persons here talk about responsibility. If you cannot even control your own reproductive system then STFU!

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In another period of my professional life I had the occasion to refer patients to Dr Tiller.In every case the women were confronted with a horrific situations and not simply seeking reproductive convenience. Indeed more than a few had actually tried hard to become pregnant only to find at mid to late pregnancy that they were carrying a fetus with horrific defects like anancephaly, horrible face to face conjoined twins and conditions that made it both unbearable and unsafe to carry to term. I cannot say with certainty that he did not perform late term procedures for strictly elective reasons however late term procedures are almost never done for this reason. This is the cruel heart of the "partial birth abortion lie. I can tell you that he had so many of women in the first category seeking his services from all over America that I doubt he had time to do many. Dr Tiller was helping women and their husband/partners in a time of terrible pain and suffering who had lost the dream of a viable baby often while being spurned by their families, Churches, and health care providers. As one of the few physicians in the nation providing the procedure he was the only one they had to turn to.Helping the suffering is what physicians are supposed to do.

Dr Tiller was assassinated with the help, encouragement and incitement of the anti abortion movement and the right wing media and anyone with a brain their head can see it. The sight this week of Randall Terry and Bill Reilly trying to wipe the blood off their hands before high fiving in celebration should be chilling for anyone who values their safety or their liberty.

The term "Pro Life" is a lie. I am always amazed at how quickly fundamentalist Christians can throw the commandment "thou Shall not kill" under the bus.

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Hi friends.........

parking sensor

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Dr. George Tiller was shot dead as he was walking into his Sunday morning church services. Dr. Tiller was one of the few late-term abortion providers in the country.

thnx,
Amanda

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