REPRODUCTIVE JUSTICE  
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In Search of the "Perfect" Vagina: Women Spend and (Spread) to Achieve Porn Ideal

The labiaplasty: Yet another symptom of our culture's need to assert control over women's bodies and sexuality.
April 17, 2009  |  
 
 
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"It doesn’t look right," said forty-two-year-old Carla Westman*. "Like I’m uneven, like one side is larger than the other and as I’ve gotten older, I think one side is stretching. Before I could close my legs and you couldn’t see anything but now one side peeks through just a tiny bit more than the other, and that just bothers me."

To clarify, Westman, a pharmaceutical rep from Phoenix, Arizona is feeling old. More to the point, she’s blaming her vagina, or labia to be exact. And bizarre as it may sound, she is not necessarily alone.

According to the American Society of Plastic Surgeons, approximately a thousand "vaginal rejuvenations" were performed in 2006 -- the most current year for which U.S. statistics have been compiled -- up 30 percent from 2005. In the United Kingdom, the number of labiaplasties performed doubled between 2000 and 2005, reaching over eight hundred procedures per year. While these accounts may be nothing to write home about yet, the limited data available (no one database records all instances of Female Genital Cosmetic Surgery) do suggest that the procedures, and the demand for such, are growing exponentially.

"The search term labiaplasty is one of the highest searched things that lead to somebody finding me on the Internet," confirmed Dr. Scott W. Mosser, a board certified plastic surgeon based in San Francisco, who has been performing labiaplasties for the past four years. But despite the high traffic to his website, Dr. Mosser only performs about a dozen labiaplasties per year, leading him to speculate that people are less than comfortable with the procedure.

Said Dr. Mosser, "When we look at all the other procedures [that I do], the amount of individuals who search them is pretty proportionate to the actual amounts of individuals who come in for a consult. That tells me that labiaplasty may be a little bit in the dark; that women are nervous about it; or maybe it’s an area that’s perceived to be a little bit of taboo."

What is labiaplasty?

For those still unfamiliar with the procedure, labiaplasty involves the surgical reduction and "beautification" of the labia. Women typically request the procedure for a triad of reasons. These include both visual and physical complaints ranging from discomfort during exercise and vaginal intercourse, to discomfort simply from wearing clothing, in particular when the labia minora get caught between the elastic folds of underwear, to complaints like Westman’s, where women are dissatisfied with a lack of symmetry, discoloration, or the appearance of their labia in general.

Dr. Mosser admits that while there is no true dirtiness to having labia hypertrophy, there does seem to be a psychological desire amongst women to have their genitals look organized or clean. "There is a real trend towards sort of a perception of a clean look, whatever that means, that is associated with youth," said Dr. Mosser. Nonetheless, he is adamant that anything that is distracting enough to interfere with a person’s quality of life or lifestyle is something that should be addressed.

Is Porn Pushing 'Ideal Genitals'?

Others, however, are not so convinced.

"Society has changed across the last little while to a context in which cosmetic surgery in general and cosmetic procedures in general have become incredibly normalized," said Dr. Virginia Braun, a psychologist from the University of Auckland specializing in women's health and sexuality, and the current co-editor of Feminism and Psychology. "But our knowledge of women’s genital anatomy is still not -- we’re not a hundred percent there yet."

Dr. Braun is one of a handful of doctors and professionals who are adamantly, and radically, opposed to labiaplasties as well as other forms of FGCS like vaginoplasties and hoodectomies. Both vaginoplasties, which involve the "rejuvenation" or tightening of the vagina, and hoodectomies, also called clitoral unhooding, are meant to enhance sexual pleasure (and neither, it bears mentioning, are performed by Dr. Mosser).

To hear Dr. Braun explain it, there is a huge lack of knowledge surrounding genital diversity for women. "Women who have nose jobs or breast enlargements have a huge pool of comparison to draw from. They’ve seen probably thousands of noses every day, and even though we maybe don’t [often] see naked breasts, we certainly know what breasts look like."

So where are women like Westman, who yearn for their vulvas of yesteryear, drawing their comparisons from? As Dr. Deborah Tolman, a professor of social welfare at Hunter College School of Social Work and author of Dilemmas of Desire: Teenage Girls Talk about Sexuality puts it, "What happened in the last three years to make women’s labias so big that they can’t walk around with them?"

If the accounts from surgeons and the media are to be believed, pornography is a major influence in what women believe is desirable. While women might not be trading notes on their vaginal proportions, they have become increasingly comfortable with mainstream pornography and that leads to one dimensional representations of what vulvas look like. Add to that the phenomenon that is the Brazilian Bikini wax, where all but the smallest trace of pubic hair is removed, and women are getting the HD version of their vulvas outside of a biology class for the first time.


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Comments are closed-

at what point
Posted by: Eat Politicians on Apr 17, 2009 12:58 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do women become responsible for what they do to their bodies? Is Michael Jackson a women?

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» RE: at what point Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: at what point Posted by: MyLeftFoot

Comments are closed-

At what point
Posted by: Eat Politicians on Apr 17, 2009 1:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do women become responsible for what they do to their bodies. Are they free agents? Can they make decisions? Does every man get genital mutilation therapy (penis enlargement) because society is telling them to? Explain to me the difference? (there is none) Tell me about Michael Jackson and body modification.

Try Harder....

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» RE: At what point Posted by: clvngodess
» RE: At what point Posted by: Eat Politicians
» Amen! Posted by: bizeeb
» RE: At what point Posted by: Lilykins

Comments are closed-

Why don't SOME women just grow up?
Posted by: cordas on Apr 17, 2009 1:20 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For crying out loud, why is it some people are determined to project their own body loathing onto every part of their life. Just grow the F up and love the body you have, its the only one you got and if you love it then so will the special person you love! If they don't then they are no good for you and get rid of them and find someone who will love you for who you are!

My 36 year old male body is a mess, its covered in scars from operations, its lumpy and lopsided due to the causes of the operations that have covered it in scars, my belly is starting to grow despite my best efforts at the gym, but I still love it cos its the only I have (although I do wish it was healthy), it constantly amazes me that my partner finds my body hot n sexy, well until I think its ME she finds hot n sexy, my body is just the packaging that I come in.

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What Do Normal Labia Look Like?
Posted by: cocozane on Apr 17, 2009 1:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OK, it is true most women do not have first-hand knowledge of what another woman's labia look like; but if a woman truly feels her labia don't look "right," she should at least educate herself b4 undergoing surgery; if one just checks out something as simple as,say, the WWW, will find so many examples of diversity in this area, that the concept of normalcy becomes obsolete. I even remember an '80s ad for United Colors of Benetton that was nothing but a gallery of vulva and penises, all colors, shapes, and forms. And that was a commercial ad for clothes! One cannot say "there is no info out there," really, anymore.

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How much porn are people watching?
Posted by: vioibi on Apr 17, 2009 1:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How much porn are women watching? Has it become that common that women feel that their labia don't match up? Do they view so many crotch shots that they actually review which are attractive and which aren't? Don't they realize that any surgery has serious risks? This I don't like my body so I'll get it redone is awful. Do they know how crotch prepping goes into making porn? I feel silly typing this it is so ridiculous. Ladies, do not mutilate yourselves!

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Think and decide for yourself
Posted by: ZPaul on Apr 17, 2009 2:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think every adult should study the question seriously, think about it, be honest with themselves as to why they want this procedure done, if they decide to do it, and take the final decision for themselves.

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why must it be someones fault?
Posted by: imaskeptic on Apr 17, 2009 2:14 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From the byline, the author is clearly implying that this "phenomenon" is the fault of either men or society in general.

Let's assume for arguments sake that men do indeed demand that women look a certain way and that it's not inherent in women, as it is in men, to compete with each other for the attention of the opposite sex... Why then, is it so bad for men to make such demands, yet perfectly ok for women to demand of men that they be more sensitive, more understanding, more compassionate, more in touch with their feelings, etc, etc, ad nauseum...

It amuses me that women seem to want their men to become less like men and more like women, whilst men only ever want women to be like women.

I'm beginning to think that most women would prefer to have relationships with other women, and relegate men to the roles of sperm donor and cash machine.

If you think some part of you is ugly, it probably is. But don't blame men for your desire to improve it. It's YOUR desire. Most men would give you one either way...

Let's remember we evolved into our "roles" over aeons and it got us to the top of the food chain. We compliment each other. We are not meant to be the same.

And if you don't agree with me, you can throw those massive labia over your shoulder and just fk off! lol

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» RE: why must it be someones fault? Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: why must it be someones fault? Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» More like Posted by: Kelly
» spot on Posted by: imaskeptic
» You seem angry. Posted by: mcubed
» RE: I seem angry? lol Posted by: imaskeptic

Comments are closed-

SICK AND IRRELEVANT
Posted by: drricklippin on Apr 17, 2009 2:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Must we abide hearing about this nonsense on AlterNet.

The patients who do this are as nuts as the doctors who are participants.

Biology provides diversity of ALL body parts

Also 1000 women per yer is a very small number

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa

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At last there is a cure for my condition
Posted by: singer222 on Apr 17, 2009 2:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thought there was no hope for me. I have been ace wrapping my labia to my upper thighs for years now, starting in Catholic school gym class. I can't wear tight jeans because they get abraded by the rough material. And my high school prom picture had the outline of my labia in my gown. Yet my insurance won't cover this surgery! Can't anyone help? Send your checks to "SNIPMYLIPS in MISSISSIP" (pi).

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» RE: LOL! LOL! Posted by: TrollTreason

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who cares!
Posted by: peakoiler on Apr 17, 2009 3:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i like my labia as young and tight looking as possible! duh! But surgery? all this talk about labaia makes me wanna get my penis enlarger out and go to town. Are there videos?

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interesting point ...
Posted by: J4761 on Apr 17, 2009 3:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"ideas about norms of what bodies should be like, and that woman’s genitals are an appropriate place to intervene" ... the same could be said for male circumcission, which is commonly accepted as normal practice, with little thought, let alone discussion, of the motivations or long-term personal and social consequences of the practice.

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» RE: interesting point ... Posted by: sureshot45
» shaving and waxing... Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: shaving and waxing... Posted by: bomec
» I agree on circumcision. nm Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: shaving and waxing... Posted by: Love Me, I'm a Liberal
» emphasis yours... and really... Posted by: JoshuaLudd

Comments are closed-

Whats wrong with being unique...
Posted by: adp3d on Apr 17, 2009 3:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...it may not be perfect but its mine, baby, and there ain't another like it!

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» RE: Whats wrong with being unique... Posted by: Eat Politicians

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I had it done
Posted by: terradea42 on Apr 17, 2009 5:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And, frankly, I'm as happy as a bearded clam. I can finally wear bikinis without exposing myself, ride a bike without bruising and have sex without entanglement. For those of you out there who think I did something ignorant or wrong, you have NO IDEA what you're talking about.

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» RE: I had it done Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» Boyfriend liked doing that ... Posted by: terradea42
» Why are you so angry? Posted by: mcubed
» RE: I had it done Posted by: bobcoejr
» Boyfriend liked it before Posted by: terradea42
» RE: I had it done Posted by: getoverit07
» RE: I had it done Posted by: gilliani

Comments are closed-

How many women watch porn?
Posted by: Honky The Antichrist on Apr 17, 2009 5:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I’m fairly certain that the majority of porn is consumed by men in 7 minute increments.

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» RE: How many women watch porn? Posted by: richholland
» It depends on the porn Posted by: Kelly
» seven minutes!? ... Posted by: J4761

Comments are closed-

Is Porn Pushing 'Ideal Genitals'?
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Apr 17, 2009 5:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Uhm, Hello.... why are we only asking this question now that women are the subject??? Porn... as well as popular culture have been making men feel insecure about their genitals for decades. Why exactly do you think all that spam for "male enhancement" exists in the first place?

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The further shores of politics...
Posted by: sausage on Apr 17, 2009 6:09 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This essay is a perfect example of how the further shores of politics, at least in this country, circle round to transform the ocean of ideas into a mud puddle.

Ask yourself: What two groups of people just absolutely hate pornography?

Feminists and sexually , repressed, (supposedly) under-the-thumb-of-their-old-men, church ladies.

I mean, really now, the one of thing that both the fundamentalist religious right, of all three sick monotheistic traditions, and the ideologically pure left can agree is the corrupting influence of pornography on society in general. Utter f*cking nonsense.

Look, the woman cited as an example of all women seeking "labiaplasty," as a pharmaceutical rep--a true parasite on body politic--has the money to do to her body what she wants. I'm also quite sure that young, poor women have never heard of the procedure, and even if they did, could not afford one.

Should we not be asking if penile implants, Viagra, Enzyte and bogus penis enlargement surgeries are symptoms of our culture's need to assert control over men's bodies and sexuality also?

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No Longer Quivering
Posted by: deni_haven on Apr 17, 2009 6:13 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OMFG ~ this is probably where I'd have ended up if I hadn't finally woke up to the fact that *I matter* ~ I am no longer living my life for the happiness of everyone except me, I am No Longer Quivering

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All the surgery in the world...
Posted by: Cybershaman on Apr 17, 2009 6:25 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...won't make someone beautiful on the outside when they're ugly on the inside.
And the reverse is also true, if you have inner beauty shining through, all the scars and warts and bald spots become irrelevant.

On the other hand, using surgery to enhance or improve ones sexual experiences is understandable if not taken to ridiculous extremes.

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A heterosexual male's view.
Posted by: Eddie Van Helsing on Apr 17, 2009 6:25 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ladies, I don't care if your labia look "perfect". Who the hell gets to define "perfect", anyway? If I were to be your lover, all I would ask is that you keep your pussies clean and trimmed, and that you yourselves be willing and enthusiastic.

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To the author:
Posted by: weathered on Apr 17, 2009 6:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why don't you goto the VA hospital and look at the women were sent to Iraq for Oil & Israel and ask them how they feel about the vanity of a vagina?

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» RE: To the author: Posted by: VZEQICVA

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It is called "Pursuit of happiness". It is a Constitutional right.
Posted by: AJR Journal on Apr 17, 2009 7:04 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As American citizens, these woman are guaranteed the right to attempt to improve their lives. It comes under the "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" clause.
Good luck, girls.
I hope it works for you.

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» That's not in the Constitution Posted by: westomoon

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What the hell!?
Posted by: Ayla87 on Apr 17, 2009 7:30 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The labiaplasty: Yet another symptom of our culture's need to assert control over women's bodies and sexuality."

What kind of hippy bullshit is that!? For Christ's sake, grow a pair of ovalries and get the hell over it.

I've walked this earth for 21 years and I've never felt the 'need' of our culture to assert control over my body.

The closest I've ever felt was when I was 13. And I left that peer pressure mentality back in middle school, where it belongs.

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» RE: What the hell!? Posted by: bobcoejr

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As a feminist...
Posted by: g on Apr 17, 2009 7:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... I think this article is a load of BS. Yes, there is pressure to look perfect and young. Yes, there is more pressure on women than men. So what? You don't have to abide, you know? It's adults that we are talking about. Adults who may or may not make stupid choices because of unrealistic models that they *don't* have to buy. Or do you think women need protection from themselves?

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» RE: As a feminist... Posted by: jstepp590
» RE: As a feminist... Posted by: getoverit07

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Quiz: what is uglier than a vagina?
Posted by: jrmart on Apr 17, 2009 7:45 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
answer: NOTHING
but-- a cock runs a close second!!

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(laughing)
Posted by: jstepp590 on Apr 17, 2009 7:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Last time I checked, it was women getting the procedure, not a society! If you feel that it is too much then maybe it is an excess of freedom, maybe?

Last time I checked, guys just weren't that picky. We have other things on our mind when we're looking at them. ;-P

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Pretty Kitty
Posted by: Crazy H on Apr 17, 2009 8:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'll admit that I find some kitties more visually pleasing than others. But my doggie doesn't have eyes. He doesn't care what the kitty *looks* like.

So long as you've got a kitty, the boys and their doggies will come running.

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bob
Posted by: ozarkerbob on Apr 17, 2009 8:11 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If ask me all this shaving of men's beards, womens legs, pits etc. is an excessive concern over body image.

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» RE: bob Posted by: luzmejor

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"Can't see the forest for the pee-pee?"
Posted by: monkeywrench on Apr 17, 2009 9:10 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did all of this silliness start when women decided to shave? Before, having Perfect Labia was not important, as they were blanketed by a canopy of soft overgrowth. Maybe it's time to return to the "rain forest" model of female genitals, and just relax. We already know the potential damage that clearcutting can do to any forest.

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There's No End To The Grande Narcissism That is WOMAN
Posted by: rastaman on Apr 17, 2009 9:41 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's No End To The Grande Narcissism That is WOMAN

they will literally FIND something wrong with themselves. they define their "SELF" through their own suffering or own low self esteem.

how pathetic and childish

that said, if they ever come up with a REAL male enhancement solution.....women are going to need reconstructive surgery like NEVER before!

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» Like men are much different Posted by: Ayla87

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Beautiful
Posted by: Archie1954 on Apr 17, 2009 9:43 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just as there is a Western idael for a woman's beauty (inspired by the ancient Greeks) so there is in every man's eye the concept of the perfect labia. Sure beauty is in the eye of the beholder but men have been watching porn for a very long time and they know what they like in a woman's body. Stop trying to fight Mother Nature in that respect. Women are beautiful to attract men. It's simply the way the world works. Cosmetics assist in the job and if rejuvenated labia will help go for it.

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Huh????
Posted by: thekidde on Apr 17, 2009 10:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.

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Is it just me...
Posted by: Tereska on Apr 17, 2009 10:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Or does porn show the exact OPPOSITE of what this procedure does? Most porn I've seen the inner lips are way out and sloppy, yet this procedure tucks them in and/or minimizes them correct? Am I missing something here? After I watch porn I'm usually MORE content with my own vagina!

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THE AUTHORS PLACE OF BIZ
Posted by: bobcoejr on Apr 17, 2009 10:29 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
CHECK OUT THE AUTHORS PLACE OF BUSINESS AND YOU WILL SEE WHERE ALL THIS B.S. IS ROOTED..

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There is a racial angle to this as well
Posted by: Kelly on Apr 17, 2009 10:31 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many ethnic groups in Africa have longer labia. This article from Rotten.com gives a good summary: http://www.rotten.com/library/sex/elongated-labia/ (warning--there are photographic examples).

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Christ!
Posted by: morticia on Apr 17, 2009 10:58 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The clucking and judging and headshaking, in the article as well as in the responses! Like a bunch of sour Miss Grundy church ladies! I say if ever there was an occasion to butt out, this is it.

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» And I mean you! Posted by: morticia

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What about the men?
Posted by: jbitch on Apr 17, 2009 11:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So when is Alternet going to do an article on the droopiness of men's genitals? I mean I've seen photos of guys who nuts are down around their knees and penises that hang like fat brautwursts! That can't be fun on a bicycle.

Oh, and then there's the issue of gynomasticia, 'man boobs' which apparently, although 60-70% of men have or are 'afficted'with them, is considered a 'correctable' condition. Oh, the shame of your boobies boys.

Last and not least by any means are the crossdressers whose obsession with all things female finally lead them to multiple surgeries on all parts of their bodies to look like the ideal female.

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» RE: excuse me ???? Posted by: cherylsass123

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So Sad
Posted by: ms_happy on Apr 17, 2009 12:25 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So sad that women are so caught up in the size and looks of their labia that they pay no attention to what's happening in the world around them. Ladies, get your heads out of your crotches and do some form of philanthropy to help a fellow human being. Your labia may be perfect, but superficiality is not attractive to anyone.

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» RE: So Sad Posted by: schwarze sonne

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Looks Are Not Important.
Posted by: melpol on Apr 17, 2009 4:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most men are not concerned with the appearance of the vagina. There are only three things that are important.
1. Availability
2. Narrowness of channel
3. Odor free
The face and age of the owner has some importance but it is only secondary.

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Always the victim eh..
Posted by: teel on Apr 17, 2009 5:40 PM   
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Note to women: nobody cares

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Discomfort from labia isn't new, but plastic surgery for it is
Posted by: ladyoracle on Apr 17, 2009 5:46 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is way too much information, but my labia are pretty big, and sometimes they are uncomfortable in certain kinds of pants when I sit down, and while it's not serious enough for me to consider surgery, I can see that women with even larger ones might really have their quality of life negatively impacted, making surgery a good option. Of course, women who just want it evened up or whatever fall into the category of vanity surgery like breast implants, lipo, face lifts, etc. But it is true that some labia are so big as to be uncomfortable, and then it is like people getting a breast reduction because of bra strap furrows and back pain. I do see some parallels with FGM, but these women aren't being forced to do it, and it's sanitary and if performed safely shouldn't lead to any problems with urination or childbirth, unlike FGM.

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» forgive my presumption... Posted by: imaskeptic
» RE: forgive my presumption... Posted by: ladyoracle

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One thing that bothered me about this article
Posted by: leighsure on Apr 17, 2009 6:18 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
was the author's attempt to equate Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) with voluntary procedures on women's pudendas. FGM is not about appearance, but about control over "wild" women. The whole point of FGM is assure that the woman gets no pleasure from sex, so that there is no purpose for her to look for sex with a man other than a husband to provide babies.

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wasn't there an Alternet article just like this one
Posted by: hurricane hugo on Apr 18, 2009 9:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
about 4 or 5 months ago?

#@!

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Shaving pubes is pedophilia
Posted by: Comrade Rutherford on Apr 18, 2009 10:41 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems pretty obvious that those people that demand bare-shaven girl-gennies really just want to have sex with pre-pubescent children, since small children are the only ones that don't have pubic hair. I love my woman's pubes. Besides, if you are doing cunnilingus right, you won't have any pubes in your mouth!

About the topic, I can understand that a very small number of women would have a legitimate need to 'trim' their labia. I had one GF in college with the largest labia minora I have ever sucked on! But as long as hers were, she hasn't (we are still friends) felt a need to have them surgically altered.

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» idiot Posted by: imaskeptic

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One comic says
Posted by: Landbaron on Apr 18, 2009 11:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Love is like live porn, without the cool things of porn." No wonder Americans spend more than $15 billion on porn every year. Porn is like the cheat code for sex.

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Male circumcision is much more barbaric than this - but where's the outrage?
Posted by: CharlesRoland on Apr 19, 2009 4:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Male circumcision is a barbaric procedure forced on male infants. Where's the outrage that male babies are not given a choice about this outdated form of mutilation? If we were doing anything remotely similar to females our society would riot in the streets blaming white oppressive males. But, because we're dealing with the penis, suddenly it's ok to put a baby through pain in the name of future "cleanliness and health". I was not asked if my penis should be circumcised. Had I been allowed to make the choice myself as a teen I would have had the opportunity to refuse. Since I was butchered as a baby I have to live without the very skin God put on my penis to keep the glans protected. A regular shower and proper cleaning are all that is needed to keep the uncircumcised penis clean - but many females believe that uncircumcised penises are dirty - a myth that has been perpetuated by feminists and uneducated mothers. Again, where's the outrage? Males should be given a choice!

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Women (and men) should see what happens
Posted by: Alenna on Apr 19, 2009 11:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
to these "perfect" porn actresses and prostitutes when they get older. They turn 35 or 40 and are no longer so "perfect". Many end up needing to wear diapers and having serious medical problems. They are no longer the center of attention - I imagine that has a mental price to pay also.

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Mind Your Own Business
Posted by: getoverit07 on Apr 19, 2009 12:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I feel compelled to comment on this article because of the ABSOLUTE bias of the writer and what seems to be most of the other readers' comments.
As a woman, I certainly do not condone mainstream pornography, the objectification or degradation of women or their bodies. However, by trying to deny women the knowledge or access to any safe, well researched, elective procedure is denying freedom of choice; (which gee, I thought all us modern, education women have been fighting for the past 5,000 years or so).
If young girls were shown their true value and worth as individuals, (which sadly most are not) we wouldn't be arguing the point of cosmetic surgery on the basis of societal standards alone. Any procedure that alters physical appearance should be based on the individual's personal needs and desires for themselves and NO ONE should influence that choice if it does no harm to themselves or their self esteem.
Sure, there are plenty of women and men who've mutilated themselves trying to fit into an unrealistic ideal or because of self loathing. However, if I or any other psychologically sound and self respecting individual want to change their appearance, everyone else should keep their own damn morals to themselves.

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A lesbian transexual woman's view
Posted by: cherylsass123 on Apr 19, 2009 10:22 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I could understand getting the labiaplasty, along with the accompanying vaginoplasty better known as sexual reassignment surgery, if you are a pre-op transsexual.[ this if you can afford it- about $13,500 to over $30,000 in USA depending on the surgeon; $4,000-$6,000 in Thailand]. perhaps a few reasons for doing this would be because, in 35 states, one needs to do this in order to be legally female on your driver's license/state ID. the others would be if you're a transwoman sexuallyattracted to heterosexual men, one needs the full depth vagina in order to properly fuck a man. a lesbian transwoman can probably get by with just the shallow vaginoplasty/labiaplasty [between 1/2" to 2" deep],or maybe just the orchiectomy and penectomy.
but if you are a biologically born female this really does not make sense, as you've already got your ' vadge' complete with labia; so why not be happy with it. if it is so big that it rubs up against your pants/jeans, why not wear a more comfortable pair of jeans rather then those moronic " skinny jeans" or those fashion jeans which fit super tight and, like those stupid pencil skirts like 30-rock's " Liz lemon" [ tina fey]wears; have their "waist" halfway up to your fucking tits! ever hear of Lee Riders, ladies????
as for the swimsuit? well they've now got both the boyleg style as well as the skirted bottom with built-in loose fitting panty; the skirted type which I wear.
as for women doing this because of men's demands, I think every guy in here I've read said it best. I like the guy whom said about the three things he cared about, the " odor" part being just a little bit crass, maybe.
women are definitely their own worst enemies! many feel the need to have the perfect vagina/labia/body because this is the horseshit that society feeds them. this mostly from all the shitty women's magazines that tell women they must buy this kind of makeup, have this " essential" article of clothing, got on this new fad diet and eat overpriced Stacy's fucking chips; as well as every fucking bimbo female movie star/pop singer like angelina jolie.
I read this in Ms. magazine as well as in the N.O.W. online magazine called " below the belt". don't believe me, just read the shit spewed forth from magazines such as www.realsimple.com; www.instyle.com ; www.womansday.com ; www.marieclaire.com ; and yes, the Queen Bimbo shit- rag of them all- WWW.COSMOPOLITAN.COM
garbage in, garbage out, as they say, I loved it when kim gandy, the national organization for women president; literally told her femininst women readers to throw out all their degrading to women's self esteem fashion magazines! read more at www.nowfoundation.org/loveyourbody/

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RASplanet
Posted by: Rasplanet on Apr 22, 2009 9:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OK, I think I've got it. This labia trimming started when the military started allowing women into combat. The women heard that some guys were getting their balls shot off and felt it was time to cut back. I like a woman for her ability to laugh and have fun. The size of her pussy lips isn't a factor. Since I realized that I am a lesbian trapped in a man's body, and like all (clean) pussy. I feel like I'd have too long of a wait for her to heal before I could dive right back in. But if she needed to do it for comfort, I would be beside her all the way. That said, other than comfort, why? Because how many people would be seeing it? All labia is beautiful!

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The "Perfect" Pussy.......
Posted by: jonestown kool-aid on Apr 24, 2009 11:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...I have searched for this my entire life. But seriously, one guy/girl/TS/TG may like 'moose lips' while another guy/girl/TS/TG won't have anything but a 'hatchet slice.' There are so many different sizes and shapes of vaginas it's literally impossible to say any two are alike- similar maybe, but not the same, this is also true for penises. Be content with being unique.

From my own life experience I can easily say the best vaginas I've ever felt had some extra lip to them, esp. inner lips. It amazes me how many men & women don't even understand the difference between labia majora & labia minora... well, I guess it's not that hard to comprehend this lack of understanding since many people don't even believe women can ejaculate. Before anyone considers plastic surgery do about 2-3 years of SERIOUS research, and then reconsider. We're ALL imperfect, and what you don't like about yourself somebody else will love, no joke.

An ideal vagina is pleasing to the 5 senses, and the idea of perfection is created by peoples bullshit notion that 'perfection' actually exists- it doesn't...
I've seen thousands of vaginas in my life,and I've felt dozens,and the only thing that I've ever found 'gross' about a vagina was bad odor. This can be cured with a visit to the gyno and a metranidozol (sp?) prescription. Ladies, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE don't worry about what your vagina looks like. And NEVER use porn as a measuring stick for anything visual (lighting, camera angles and make-up NEVER reveal the true picture). Without watching porn the only way to understand the utter beauty of the vagina is through direct experience. Size, shape, and other criteria are entirely individual preference, finding the right fit takes a lot of time, finding the right fit attached to someone special takes even longer.

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My daddy had a point
Posted by: lasirene on Apr 25, 2009 3:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once he said "if you have to talk about sex all the time, you probably don't have a good sex life."

This is similar. The only people I have known in my life who were that obsessed with their "naughty bits" (just being funny) were people who were unhappy in their sexual situation. When one is having great sex with a great partner, one does not tend to be concerned with such things. (On a side note, this is also true about such things as homosexuality - most people I have known with a healthy sex life could give a rat's ass what other people are doing).

It would be much cheaper and much more healthy in most situations to change an attitude or situation than to put oneself in danger and potentially waste of bunch of money. Any man who insists upon a particular vaginal design is probably neurotic and not worth our time.

I really don't care what people do with their bodies if it's on their own terms. As a woman, I deeply get the pressure we are under (and I agree, it's not from men- at least not from healthy normal men) from ADVERTISERS.

They hit men up for fancy cars. They hit us up with our faces/bodies.

Sad, though that people feel that surgery is the answer. Like a lot of plastic surgery, they think it's going to change their lives and seldom does it change much but one aspect of their physique.

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HUGE Vaginas
Posted by: littlemanintheboat on Apr 27, 2009 11:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I couldn't stop laughing! http://tinyurl.com/cvbl5r

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that doctor is the one in the dark
Posted by: free2disagree on Apr 28, 2009 12:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if he thinks that only women thinking about surgery are calling up his website. Idle human curiosity, people looking for weird pussy pix? What a mystery the labiaplasty page gets so much extra traffic...

And also, he said he does about a dozen a year, and the article said 1000 a year for the entire US?

That is a tiny number, not some huge trend.

To me, that sounds like truly outside of "normal variation" women getting the help they choose, and maybe a few rich insecure women "fixing" themselves, but not some issue that can be generalised to 150 million women in US.

That is what- I think 0.00067 percent of US women getting this done?

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Alternet Comments:

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at what point
Posted by: Eat Politicians on Apr 17, 2009 12:58 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do women become responsible for what they do to their bodies? Is Michael Jackson a women?

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» RE: at what point Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: at what point Posted by: MyLeftFoot

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At what point
Posted by: Eat Politicians on Apr 17, 2009 1:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do women become responsible for what they do to their bodies. Are they free agents? Can they make decisions? Does every man get genital mutilation therapy (penis enlargement) because society is telling them to? Explain to me the difference? (there is none) Tell me about Michael Jackson and body modification.

Try Harder....

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» RE: At what point Posted by: clvngodess
» RE: At what point Posted by: Eat Politicians
» Amen! Posted by: bizeeb
» RE: At what point Posted by: Lilykins

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Why don't SOME women just grow up?
Posted by: cordas on Apr 17, 2009 1:20 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For crying out loud, why is it some people are determined to project their own body loathing onto every part of their life. Just grow the F up and love the body you have, its the only one you got and if you love it then so will the special person you love! If they don't then they are no good for you and get rid of them and find someone who will love you for who you are!

My 36 year old male body is a mess, its covered in scars from operations, its lumpy and lopsided due to the causes of the operations that have covered it in scars, my belly is starting to grow despite my best efforts at the gym, but I still love it cos its the only I have (although I do wish it was healthy), it constantly amazes me that my partner finds my body hot n sexy, well until I think its ME she finds hot n sexy, my body is just the packaging that I come in.

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What Do Normal Labia Look Like?
Posted by: cocozane on Apr 17, 2009 1:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OK, it is true most women do not have first-hand knowledge of what another woman's labia look like; but if a woman truly feels her labia don't look "right," she should at least educate herself b4 undergoing surgery; if one just checks out something as simple as,say, the WWW, will find so many examples of diversity in this area, that the concept of normalcy becomes obsolete. I even remember an '80s ad for United Colors of Benetton that was nothing but a gallery of vulva and penises, all colors, shapes, and forms. And that was a commercial ad for clothes! One cannot say "there is no info out there," really, anymore.

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How much porn are people watching?
Posted by: vioibi on Apr 17, 2009 1:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How much porn are women watching? Has it become that common that women feel that their labia don't match up? Do they view so many crotch shots that they actually review which are attractive and which aren't? Don't they realize that any surgery has serious risks? This I don't like my body so I'll get it redone is awful. Do they know how crotch prepping goes into making porn? I feel silly typing this it is so ridiculous. Ladies, do not mutilate yourselves!

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Think and decide for yourself
Posted by: ZPaul on Apr 17, 2009 2:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think every adult should study the question seriously, think about it, be honest with themselves as to why they want this procedure done, if they decide to do it, and take the final decision for themselves.

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why must it be someones fault?
Posted by: imaskeptic on Apr 17, 2009 2:14 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From the byline, the author is clearly implying that this "phenomenon" is the fault of either men or society in general.

Let's assume for arguments sake that men do indeed demand that women look a certain way and that it's not inherent in women, as it is in men, to compete with each other for the attention of the opposite sex... Why then, is it so bad for men to make such demands, yet perfectly ok for women to demand of men that they be more sensitive, more understanding, more compassionate, more in touch with their feelings, etc, etc, ad nauseum...

It amuses me that women seem to want their men to become less like men and more like women, whilst men only ever want women to be like women.

I'm beginning to think that most women would prefer to have relationships with other women, and relegate men to the roles of sperm donor and cash machine.

If you think some part of you is ugly, it probably is. But don't blame men for your desire to improve it. It's YOUR desire. Most men would give you one either way...

Let's remember we evolved into our "roles" over aeons and it got us to the top of the food chain. We compliment each other. We are not meant to be the same.

And if you don't agree with me, you can throw those massive labia over your shoulder and just fk off! lol

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» RE: why must it be someones fault? Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: why must it be someones fault? Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» More like Posted by: Kelly
» spot on Posted by: imaskeptic
» You seem angry. Posted by: mcubed
» RE: I seem angry? lol Posted by: imaskeptic

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SICK AND IRRELEVANT
Posted by: drricklippin on Apr 17, 2009 2:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Must we abide hearing about this nonsense on AlterNet.

The patients who do this are as nuts as the doctors who are participants.

Biology provides diversity of ALL body parts

Also 1000 women per yer is a very small number

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa

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At last there is a cure for my condition
Posted by: singer222 on Apr 17, 2009 2:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thought there was no hope for me. I have been ace wrapping my labia to my upper thighs for years now, starting in Catholic school gym class. I can't wear tight jeans because they get abraded by the rough material. And my high school prom picture had the outline of my labia in my gown. Yet my insurance won't cover this surgery! Can't anyone help? Send your checks to "SNIPMYLIPS in MISSISSIP" (pi).

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» RE: LOL! LOL! Posted by: TrollTreason

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who cares!
Posted by: peakoiler on Apr 17, 2009 3:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i like my labia as young and tight looking as possible! duh! But surgery? all this talk about labaia makes me wanna get my penis enlarger out and go to town. Are there videos?

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interesting point ...
Posted by: J4761 on Apr 17, 2009 3:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"ideas about norms of what bodies should be like, and that woman’s genitals are an appropriate place to intervene" ... the same could be said for male circumcission, which is commonly accepted as normal practice, with little thought, let alone discussion, of the motivations or long-term personal and social consequences of the practice.

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» RE: interesting point ... Posted by: sureshot45
» shaving and waxing... Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: shaving and waxing... Posted by: bomec
» I agree on circumcision. nm Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: shaving and waxing... Posted by: Love Me, I'm a Liberal
» emphasis yours... and really... Posted by: JoshuaLudd

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Whats wrong with being unique...
Posted by: adp3d on Apr 17, 2009 3:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...it may not be perfect but its mine, baby, and there ain't another like it!

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» RE: Whats wrong with being unique... Posted by: Eat Politicians

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I had it done
Posted by: terradea42 on Apr 17, 2009 5:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And, frankly, I'm as happy as a bearded clam. I can finally wear bikinis without exposing myself, ride a bike without bruising and have sex without entanglement. For those of you out there who think I did something ignorant or wrong, you have NO IDEA what you're talking about.

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» RE: I had it done Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» Boyfriend liked doing that ... Posted by: terradea42
» Why are you so angry? Posted by: mcubed
» RE: I had it done Posted by: bobcoejr
» Boyfriend liked it before Posted by: terradea42
» RE: I had it done Posted by: getoverit07
» RE: I had it done Posted by: gilliani

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How many women watch porn?
Posted by: Honky The Antichrist on Apr 17, 2009 5:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I’m fairly certain that the majority of porn is consumed by men in 7 minute increments.

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» RE: How many women watch porn? Posted by: richholland
» It depends on the porn Posted by: Kelly
» seven minutes!? ... Posted by: J4761

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Is Porn Pushing 'Ideal Genitals'?
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Apr 17, 2009 5:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Uhm, Hello.... why are we only asking this question now that women are the subject??? Porn... as well as popular culture have been making men feel insecure about their genitals for decades. Why exactly do you think all that spam for "male enhancement" exists in the first place?

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The further shores of politics...
Posted by: sausage on Apr 17, 2009 6:09 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This essay is a perfect example of how the further shores of politics, at least in this country, circle round to transform the ocean of ideas into a mud puddle.

Ask yourself: What two groups of people just absolutely hate pornography?

Feminists and sexually , repressed, (supposedly) under-the-thumb-of-their-old-men, church ladies.

I mean, really now, the one of thing that both the fundamentalist religious right, of all three sick monotheistic traditions, and the ideologically pure left can agree is the corrupting influence of pornography on society in general. Utter f*cking nonsense.

Look, the woman cited as an example of all women seeking "labiaplasty," as a pharmaceutical rep--a true parasite on body politic--has the money to do to her body what she wants. I'm also quite sure that young, poor women have never heard of the procedure, and even if they did, could not afford one.

Should we not be asking if penile implants, Viagra, Enzyte and bogus penis enlargement surgeries are symptoms of our culture's need to assert control over men's bodies and sexuality also?

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No Longer Quivering
Posted by: deni_haven on Apr 17, 2009 6:13 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OMFG ~ this is probably where I'd have ended up if I hadn't finally woke up to the fact that *I matter* ~ I am no longer living my life for the happiness of everyone except me, I am No Longer Quivering

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All the surgery in the world...
Posted by: Cybershaman on Apr 17, 2009 6:25 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...won't make someone beautiful on the outside when they're ugly on the inside.
And the reverse is also true, if you have inner beauty shining through, all the scars and warts and bald spots become irrelevant.

On the other hand, using surgery to enhance or improve ones sexual experiences is understandable if not taken to ridiculous extremes.

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A heterosexual male's view.
Posted by: Eddie Van Helsing on Apr 17, 2009 6:25 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ladies, I don't care if your labia look "perfect". Who the hell gets to define "perfect", anyway? If I were to be your lover, all I would ask is that you keep your pussies clean and trimmed, and that you yourselves be willing and enthusiastic.

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To the author:
Posted by: weathered on Apr 17, 2009 6:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why don't you goto the VA hospital and look at the women were sent to Iraq for Oil & Israel and ask them how they feel about the vanity of a vagina?

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» RE: To the author: Posted by: VZEQICVA

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It is called "Pursuit of happiness". It is a Constitutional right.
Posted by: AJR Journal on Apr 17, 2009 7:04 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As American citizens, these woman are guaranteed the right to attempt to improve their lives. It comes under the "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" clause.
Good luck, girls.
I hope it works for you.

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» That's not in the Constitution Posted by: westomoon

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What the hell!?
Posted by: Ayla87 on Apr 17, 2009 7:30 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The labiaplasty: Yet another symptom of our culture's need to assert control over women's bodies and sexuality."

What kind of hippy bullshit is that!? For Christ's sake, grow a pair of ovalries and get the hell over it.

I've walked this earth for 21 years and I've never felt the 'need' of our culture to assert control over my body.

The closest I've ever felt was when I was 13. And I left that peer pressure mentality back in middle school, where it belongs.

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» RE: What the hell!? Posted by: bobcoejr

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As a feminist...
Posted by: g on Apr 17, 2009 7:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... I think this article is a load of BS. Yes, there is pressure to look perfect and young. Yes, there is more pressure on women than men. So what? You don't have to abide, you know? It's adults that we are talking about. Adults who may or may not make stupid choices because of unrealistic models that they *don't* have to buy. Or do you think women need protection from themselves?

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» RE: As a feminist... Posted by: jstepp590
» RE: As a feminist... Posted by: getoverit07

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Quiz: what is uglier than a vagina?
Posted by: jrmart on Apr 17, 2009 7:45 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
answer: NOTHING
but-- a cock runs a close second!!

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(laughing)
Posted by: jstepp590 on Apr 17, 2009 7:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Last time I checked, it was women getting the procedure, not a society! If you feel that it is too much then maybe it is an excess of freedom, maybe?

Last time I checked, guys just weren't that picky. We have other things on our mind when we're looking at them. ;-P

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Pretty Kitty
Posted by: Crazy H on Apr 17, 2009 8:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'll admit that I find some kitties more visually pleasing than others. But my doggie doesn't have eyes. He doesn't care what the kitty *looks* like.

So long as you've got a kitty, the boys and their doggies will come running.

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bob
Posted by: ozarkerbob on Apr 17, 2009 8:11 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If ask me all this shaving of men's beards, womens legs, pits etc. is an excessive concern over body image.

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» RE: bob Posted by: luzmejor

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"Can't see the forest for the pee-pee?"
Posted by: monkeywrench on Apr 17, 2009 9:10 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did all of this silliness start when women decided to shave? Before, having Perfect Labia was not important, as they were blanketed by a canopy of soft overgrowth. Maybe it's time to return to the "rain forest" model of female genitals, and just relax. We already know the potential damage that clearcutting can do to any forest.

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There's No End To The Grande Narcissism That is WOMAN
Posted by: rastaman on Apr 17, 2009 9:41 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's No End To The Grande Narcissism That is WOMAN

they will literally FIND something wrong with themselves. they define their "SELF" through their own suffering or own low self esteem.

how pathetic and childish

that said, if they ever come up with a REAL male enhancement solution.....women are going to need reconstructive surgery like NEVER before!

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» Like men are much different Posted by: Ayla87

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Beautiful
Posted by: Archie1954 on Apr 17, 2009 9:43 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just as there is a Western idael for a woman's beauty (inspired by the ancient Greeks) so there is in every man's eye the concept of the perfect labia. Sure beauty is in the eye of the beholder but men have been watching porn for a very long time and they know what they like in a woman's body. Stop trying to fight Mother Nature in that respect. Women are beautiful to attract men. It's simply the way the world works. Cosmetics assist in the job and if rejuvenated labia will help go for it.

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Huh????
Posted by: thekidde on Apr 17, 2009 10:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.

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Is it just me...
Posted by: Tereska on Apr 17, 2009 10:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Or does porn show the exact OPPOSITE of what this procedure does? Most porn I've seen the inner lips are way out and sloppy, yet this procedure tucks them in and/or minimizes them correct? Am I missing something here? After I watch porn I'm usually MORE content with my own vagina!

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THE AUTHORS PLACE OF BIZ
Posted by: bobcoejr on Apr 17, 2009 10:29 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
CHECK OUT THE AUTHORS PLACE OF BUSINESS AND YOU WILL SEE WHERE ALL THIS B.S. IS ROOTED..

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There is a racial angle to this as well
Posted by: Kelly on Apr 17, 2009 10:31 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many ethnic groups in Africa have longer labia. This article from Rotten.com gives a good summary: http://www.rotten.com/library/sex/elongated-labia/ (warning--there are photographic examples).

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Christ!
Posted by: morticia on Apr 17, 2009 10:58 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The clucking and judging and headshaking, in the article as well as in the responses! Like a bunch of sour Miss Grundy church ladies! I say if ever there was an occasion to butt out, this is it.

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» And I mean you! Posted by: morticia

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What about the men?
Posted by: jbitch on Apr 17, 2009 11:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So when is Alternet going to do an article on the droopiness of men's genitals? I mean I've seen photos of guys who nuts are down around their knees and penises that hang like fat brautwursts! That can't be fun on a bicycle.

Oh, and then there's the issue of gynomasticia, 'man boobs' which apparently, although 60-70% of men have or are 'afficted'with them, is considered a 'correctable' condition. Oh, the shame of your boobies boys.

Last and not least by any means are the crossdressers whose obsession with all things female finally lead them to multiple surgeries on all parts of their bodies to look like the ideal female.

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» RE: excuse me ???? Posted by: cherylsass123

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So Sad
Posted by: ms_happy on Apr 17, 2009 12:25 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So sad that women are so caught up in the size and looks of their labia that they pay no attention to what's happening in the world around them. Ladies, get your heads out of your crotches and do some form of philanthropy to help a fellow human being. Your labia may be perfect, but superficiality is not attractive to anyone.

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» RE: So Sad Posted by: schwarze sonne

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Looks Are Not Important.
Posted by: melpol on Apr 17, 2009 4:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most men are not concerned with the appearance of the vagina. There are only three things that are important.
1. Availability
2. Narrowness of channel
3. Odor free
The face and age of the owner has some importance but it is only secondary.

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Always the victim eh..
Posted by: teel on Apr 17, 2009 5:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Note to women: nobody cares

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Discomfort from labia isn't new, but plastic surgery for it is
Posted by: ladyoracle on Apr 17, 2009 5:46 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is way too much information, but my labia are pretty big, and sometimes they are uncomfortable in certain kinds of pants when I sit down, and while it's not serious enough for me to consider surgery, I can see that women with even larger ones might really have their quality of life negatively impacted, making surgery a good option. Of course, women who just want it evened up or whatever fall into the category of vanity surgery like breast implants, lipo, face lifts, etc. But it is true that some labia are so big as to be uncomfortable, and then it is like people getting a breast reduction because of bra strap furrows and back pain. I do see some parallels with FGM, but these women aren't being forced to do it, and it's sanitary and if performed safely shouldn't lead to any problems with urination or childbirth, unlike FGM.

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» forgive my presumption... Posted by: imaskeptic
» RE: forgive my presumption... Posted by: ladyoracle

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One thing that bothered me about this article
Posted by: leighsure on Apr 17, 2009 6:18 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
was the author's attempt to equate Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) with voluntary procedures on women's pudendas. FGM is not about appearance, but about control over "wild" women. The whole point of FGM is assure that the woman gets no pleasure from sex, so that there is no purpose for her to look for sex with a man other than a husband to provide babies.

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wasn't there an Alternet article just like this one
Posted by: hurricane hugo on Apr 18, 2009 9:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
about 4 or 5 months ago?

#@!

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Shaving pubes is pedophilia
Posted by: Comrade Rutherford on Apr 18, 2009 10:41 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems pretty obvious that those people that demand bare-shaven girl-gennies really just want to have sex with pre-pubescent children, since small children are the only ones that don't have pubic hair. I love my woman's pubes. Besides, if you are doing cunnilingus right, you won't have any pubes in your mouth!

About the topic, I can understand that a very small number of women would have a legitimate need to 'trim' their labia. I had one GF in college with the largest labia minora I have ever sucked on! But as long as hers were, she hasn't (we are still friends) felt a need to have them surgically altered.

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» idiot Posted by: imaskeptic

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One comic says
Posted by: Landbaron on Apr 18, 2009 11:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Love is like live porn, without the cool things of porn." No wonder Americans spend more than $15 billion on porn every year. Porn is like the cheat code for sex.

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Male circumcision is much more barbaric than this - but where's the outrage?
Posted by: CharlesRoland on Apr 19, 2009 4:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Male circumcision is a barbaric procedure forced on male infants. Where's the outrage that male babies are not given a choice about this outdated form of mutilation? If we were doing anything remotely similar to females our society would riot in the streets blaming white oppressive males. But, because we're dealing with the penis, suddenly it's ok to put a baby through pain in the name of future "cleanliness and health". I was not asked if my penis should be circumcised. Had I been allowed to make the choice myself as a teen I would have had the opportunity to refuse. Since I was butchered as a baby I have to live without the very skin God put on my penis to keep the glans protected. A regular shower and proper cleaning are all that is needed to keep the uncircumcised penis clean - but many females believe that uncircumcised penises are dirty - a myth that has been perpetuated by feminists and uneducated mothers. Again, where's the outrage? Males should be given a choice!

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Women (and men) should see what happens
Posted by: Alenna on Apr 19, 2009 11:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
to these "perfect" porn actresses and prostitutes when they get older. They turn 35 or 40 and are no longer so "perfect". Many end up needing to wear diapers and having serious medical problems. They are no longer the center of attention - I imagine that has a mental price to pay also.

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Mind Your Own Business
Posted by: getoverit07 on Apr 19, 2009 12:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I feel compelled to comment on this article because of the ABSOLUTE bias of the writer and what seems to be most of the other readers' comments.
As a woman, I certainly do not condone mainstream pornography, the objectification or degradation of women or their bodies. However, by trying to deny women the knowledge or access to any safe, well researched, elective procedure is denying freedom of choice; (which gee, I thought all us modern, education women have been fighting for the past 5,000 years or so).
If young girls were shown their true value and worth as individuals, (which sadly most are not) we wouldn't be arguing the point of cosmetic surgery on the basis of societal standards alone. Any procedure that alters physical appearance should be based on the individual's personal needs and desires for themselves and NO ONE should influence that choice if it does no harm to themselves or their self esteem.
Sure, there are plenty of women and men who've mutilated themselves trying to fit into an unrealistic ideal or because of self loathing. However, if I or any other psychologically sound and self respecting individual want to change their appearance, everyone else should keep their own damn morals to themselves.

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A lesbian transexual woman's view
Posted by: cherylsass123 on Apr 19, 2009 10:22 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I could understand getting the labiaplasty, along with the accompanying vaginoplasty better known as sexual reassignment surgery, if you are a pre-op transsexual.[ this if you can afford it- about $13,500 to over $30,000 in USA depending on the surgeon; $4,000-$6,000 in Thailand]. perhaps a few reasons for doing this would be because, in 35 states, one needs to do this in order to be legally female on your driver's license/state ID. the others would be if you're a transwoman sexuallyattracted to heterosexual men, one needs the full depth vagina in order to properly fuck a man. a lesbian transwoman can probably get by with just the shallow vaginoplasty/labiaplasty [between 1/2" to 2" deep],or maybe just the orchiectomy and penectomy.
but if you are a biologically born female this really does not make sense, as you've already got your ' vadge' complete with labia; so why not be happy with it. if it is so big that it rubs up against your pants/jeans, why not wear a more comfortable pair of jeans rather then those moronic " skinny jeans" or those fashion jeans which fit super tight and, like those stupid pencil skirts like 30-rock's " Liz lemon" [ tina fey]wears; have their "waist" halfway up to your fucking tits! ever hear of Lee Riders, ladies????
as for the swimsuit? well they've now got both the boyleg style as well as the skirted bottom with built-in loose fitting panty; the skirted type which I wear.
as for women doing this because of men's demands, I think every guy in here I've read said it best. I like the guy whom said about the three things he cared about, the " odor" part being just a little bit crass, maybe.
women are definitely their own worst enemies! many feel the need to have the perfect vagina/labia/body because this is the horseshit that society feeds them. this mostly from all the shitty women's magazines that tell women they must buy this kind of makeup, have this " essential" article of clothing, got on this new fad diet and eat overpriced Stacy's fucking chips; as well as every fucking bimbo female movie star/pop singer like angelina jolie.
I read this in Ms. magazine as well as in the N.O.W. online magazine called " below the belt". don't believe me, just read the shit spewed forth from magazines such as www.realsimple.com; www.instyle.com ; www.womansday.com ; www.marieclaire.com ; and yes, the Queen Bimbo shit- rag of them all- WWW.COSMOPOLITAN.COM
garbage in, garbage out, as they say, I loved it when kim gandy, the national organization for women president; literally told her femininst women readers to throw out all their degrading to women's self esteem fashion magazines! read more at www.nowfoundation.org/loveyourbody/

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RASplanet
Posted by: Rasplanet on Apr 22, 2009 9:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OK, I think I've got it. This labia trimming started when the military started allowing women into combat. The women heard that some guys were getting their balls shot off and felt it was time to cut back. I like a woman for her ability to laugh and have fun. The size of her pussy lips isn't a factor. Since I realized that I am a lesbian trapped in a man's body, and like all (clean) pussy. I feel like I'd have too long of a wait for her to heal before I could dive right back in. But if she needed to do it for comfort, I would be beside her all the way. That said, other than comfort, why? Because how many people would be seeing it? All labia is beautiful!

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The "Perfect" Pussy.......
Posted by: jonestown kool-aid on Apr 24, 2009 11:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...I have searched for this my entire life. But seriously, one guy/girl/TS/TG may like 'moose lips' while another guy/girl/TS/TG won't have anything but a 'hatchet slice.' There are so many different sizes and shapes of vaginas it's literally impossible to say any two are alike- similar maybe, but not the same, this is also true for penises. Be content with being unique.

From my own life experience I can easily say the best vaginas I've ever felt had some extra lip to them, esp. inner lips. It amazes me how many men & women don't even understand the difference between labia majora & labia minora... well, I guess it's not that hard to comprehend this lack of understanding since many people don't even believe women can ejaculate. Before anyone considers plastic surgery do about 2-3 years of SERIOUS research, and then reconsider. We're ALL imperfect, and what you don't like about yourself somebody else will love, no joke.

An ideal vagina is pleasing to the 5 senses, and the idea of perfection is created by peoples bullshit notion that 'perfection' actually exists- it doesn't...
I've seen thousands of vaginas in my life,and I've felt dozens,and the only thing that I've ever found 'gross' about a vagina was bad odor. This can be cured with a visit to the gyno and a metranidozol (sp?) prescription. Ladies, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE don't worry about what your vagina looks like. And NEVER use porn as a measuring stick for anything visual (lighting, camera angles and make-up NEVER reveal the true picture). Without watching porn the only way to understand the utter beauty of the vagina is through direct experience. Size, shape, and other criteria are entirely individual preference, finding the right fit takes a lot of time, finding the right fit attached to someone special takes even longer.

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My daddy had a point
Posted by: lasirene on Apr 25, 2009 3:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once he said "if you have to talk about sex all the time, you probably don't have a good sex life."

This is similar. The only people I have known in my life who were that obsessed with their "naughty bits" (just being funny) were people who were unhappy in their sexual situation. When one is having great sex with a great partner, one does not tend to be concerned with such things. (On a side note, this is also true about such things as homosexuality - most people I have known with a healthy sex life could give a rat's ass what other people are doing).

It would be much cheaper and much more healthy in most situations to change an attitude or situation than to put oneself in danger and potentially waste of bunch of money. Any man who insists upon a particular vaginal design is probably neurotic and not worth our time.

I really don't care what people do with their bodies if it's on their own terms. As a woman, I deeply get the pressure we are under (and I agree, it's not from men- at least not from healthy normal men) from ADVERTISERS.

They hit men up for fancy cars. They hit us up with our faces/bodies.

Sad, though that people feel that surgery is the answer. Like a lot of plastic surgery, they think it's going to change their lives and seldom does it change much but one aspect of their physique.

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HUGE Vaginas
Posted by: littlemanintheboat on Apr 27, 2009 11:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I couldn't stop laughing! http://tinyurl.com/cvbl5r

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that doctor is the one in the dark
Posted by: free2disagree on Apr 28, 2009 12:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if he thinks that only women thinking about surgery are calling up his website. Idle human curiosity, people looking for weird pussy pix? What a mystery the labiaplasty page gets so much extra traffic...

And also, he said he does about a dozen a year, and the article said 1000 a year for the entire US?

That is a tiny number, not some huge trend.

To me, that sounds like truly outside of "normal variation" women getting the help they choose, and maybe a few rich insecure women "fixing" themselves, but not some issue that can be generalised to 150 million women in US.

That is what- I think 0.00067 percent of US women getting this done?

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