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When Change Is Not Enough: Seven Steps to Revolution

By Sara Robinson, Campaign for America's Future. Posted February 22, 2008.


If history is any indication, we may be on the road to violent revolution. We got here because of the conservatives' war against liberal government.
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"Those who make peaceful evolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable." -- John F. Kennedy

There's one thing for sure: 2008 isn't anything like politics as usual.

The corporate media (with their unerring eye for the obvious point) is fixated on the narrative that, for the first time ever, Americans will likely end this year with either a woman or a black man headed for the White House. Bloggers are telling stories from the front lines of primaries and caucuses that look like something from the early 60s -- people lining up before dawn to vote in Manoa, Hawaii yesterday; a thousand black college students in Prairie View, Texas marching 10 miles to cast their early votes in the face of a county that tried to disenfranchise them. In recent months, we've also been gobstopped by the sheer passion of the insurgent campaigns of both Barack Obama and Ron Paul, both of whom brought millions of new voters into the conversation -- and with them, a sharp critique of the status quo and a new energy that's agitating toward deep structural change.

There's something implacable, earnest, and righteously angry in the air. And it raises all kinds of questions for burned-out Boomers and jaded Gen Xers who've been ground down to the stump by the mostly losing battles of the past 30 years. Can it be -- at long last -- that Americans have, simply, had enough? Are we, finally, stepping out to take back our government -- and with it, control of our own future? Is this simply a shifting political season -- the kind we get every 20 to 30 years -- or is there something deeper going on here? Do we dare to raise our hopes that this time, we're going to finally win a few? Just how ready is this country for big, serious, forward-looking change?

Recently, I came across a pocket of sociological research that suggested a tantalizing answer to these questions -- and also that America may be far more ready for far more change than anyone really believes is possible at this moment. In fact, according to some sociologists, we've already lined up all the preconditions that have historically set the stage for full-fledged violent revolution.

It turns out that the energy of this moment is not about Hillary or Ron or Barack. It's about who we are, and where we are, and what happens to people's minds when they're left hanging just a little too far past the moment when they're ready for transformative change.

Way back in 1962, Caltech sociologist James C. Davies published an article in the American Sociological Review that summarized the conditions that determine how and when modern political revolutions occur. Intriguingly, Davies cited another scholar, Crane Brinton, who laid out seven "tentative uniformities" that he argued were the common precursors that set the stage for the Puritan, American, French, and Russian revolutions. As I read Davies' argument, it struck me that the same seven stars Brinton named are now precisely lined up at midheaven over America in 2008. Taken together, it's a convergence that creates the perfect social, economic, and political conditions for the biggest revolution since the shot heard 'round the world.

And even more interestingly: in every case, we got here as a direct result of either intended or unintended consequences of the conservatives' war against liberal government, and their attempt to take over our democracy and replace it with a one-party plutocracy. It turns out that, historically, liberal nations make very poor grounds for revolution -- but deeply conservative ones very reliably create the conditions that eventually make violent overthrow necessary. And our own Republicans, it turns out, have done a hell of a job.

Here are the seven criteria, along with the reasons why we're fulfilling each of them now, and how conservative policies conspired to put us on the road to possible revolution.

1. Soaring, Then Crashing

Davies notes that revolutions don't happen in traditional societies that are stable and static -- where people have their place, things are as they've always been, and nobody expects any of that to change. Rather, modern revolutions -- particularly the progressive-minded ones in which people emerge from the fray with greater rights and equality -- happen in economically advancing societies, always at the point where a long period of rising living standards and high, hopeful expectations comes to a crashing end, leaving the citizens in an ugly and disgruntled mood. As Davies put it:

"Revolutions are most likely to occur when a prolonged period of objective economic and social development is followed by a short period of sharp reversal. The all-important effect on the minds of people in a particular society is to produce, during the former period, an expectation of continued ability to satisfy needs -- which continue to rise -- and, during the latter, a mental state of anxiety and frustration when manifest reality breaks away from anticipated reality ...

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See more stories tagged with: clinton, obama, election 2008, reform, revolution, revolution

Sara Robinson is a twenty-year veteran of Silicon Valley, and is launching a second career as a strategic foresight analyst. When she's not studying change theories and reactionary movements, you can find her singing the alto part over at Orcinus. She lives in Vancouver, BC with her husband and two teenagers.

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Yo
Posted by: g50 on Feb 22, 2008 12:46 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We will get this from President Obama and his large Democratic majority:

"Right now, all we're asking of our modern-day corporate courtiers is that they accept a tax cut repeal on people making over $200K a year, raise the minimum wage, give us decent health care and the right to unionize, and call a halt to their ridiculous "death tax" boondoggle."

Good god, we do not want a revolution. Who will win the revolution? The south and its military bases; the tens of millions of largely conservative people who own guns and will organize militias for the "patriotic" defense of our country. Our cities cannot revolt against the large and largely conservative (fascist?) base of Americans from other non-urban areas.

We are wedded to reformism. We will suffer under revolution.

Let us accept Obama as a great reformist in the tradition of Reagan, Roosevelt, Lincoln. We will be crushed if we make this violent. We are on course for two, perhaps three decades of progressive ascendancy. We need to make the most of our time, because inevitably conservatives will have the upper hand again. Everything has an aspect of being cyclical. Our fortunes are rising - violence will dash our fortunes in the worst of ways.

Right now, we need to accept the smile and the bon mots of the next leaders of the Democrats. And we need to organize locally, statewide and nationally on behalf of the progressive and liberal causes we believe in. The conservatives did this to great effect over the last few decades. Now its our turn.

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» RE: Yo Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Yo Posted by: mmckinl
» RE: Yo Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Yo Posted by: Mrs. Robinson
» RE: Yo Posted by: Collielady
» RE: Yo Posted by: radiomorning
» RE: Yo-carbon based Posted by: donl51
» You're right Posted by: felipe
» A New Low For Alternet Posted by: Davidco
» Please understand, JoAnne, Posted by: Davidco
» Who's watching Obama's back? Posted by: foreverhope
» A revolution? Over my dead body. Posted by: foreverhope
» elite forces vs we the people Posted by: foreverhope
» Reagan Great Reformist? Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: Yo Posted by: jayme55
» RE: Yo Posted by: PrezKennedy
How fitting that at such a juncture, when tensions are so high and rising,
Posted by: andabottleof_rum on Feb 22, 2008 1:12 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and a hunger for transformation grows, the presidential contest is boiling down to a young black man - by appearances the consummate outsider - and an old white man - perfect symbol of the status quo.

This year's election will be big. The question is, will the next administration be big enough to stem the tide of discontentment?

What this country may need is an all out, full-spectrum in one shot. We've had a political revolution (the War of Independence), an ongoing economic revolution (the whole Industrial Age), several cultural revolutions (universal suffrage, the civil rights movement etc.), but never a simultaneous revolution in politics, economics, society, and culture.

Such revolutions tend to get ugly, but in the long term (we're talking generations and centuries) they do the most for the cause of greater humanity.

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Direct Representation
Posted by: aouie01 on Feb 22, 2008 1:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I haven't yet put up the thoughts on the web site, but essentially, it would be a much more idealized democratic system. Much better than "Proportional Representation". Hope to have extensive details and plans at DirectRepresentation.com over the next few months (by the end of 2008 at the latest). It would be quite different from a similar concept that has been worded the same.

Essentially, people should be able to have a proportionate say in any thing that they want to have a say in. Representatives should represent the individuals well or risk being fired (like in any other job).

Direct Representation as a near ideal democratic system is not going to save the world by itself, but it will hopefully rectify a lot of significant problems with politics and governmental failures to be an instrument of the people.
Sincerely,
Aouie

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Just quibbling
Posted by: paddy_corbeil on Feb 22, 2008 1:49 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look, this is just being over precise and I know it but I have to say this. The closing arguments of this article seriously fall down on the nature of the 'modern' regimes that fall to revolution. Since 1648 and the Treaty of Westphalia ending the Thirty Years War there has been an the idea of the modern state. The beginning of industrialization did not begin until over a century later. This date, lets say post 1776, is well after the 350 years argument of the author. The French revolution was the first 'modern' revolution (sorry USA) but it wasn't industrialized. The Russian revolution was 'modern' and perhaps partially industrialized. The Iranian revolution is an even more difficult hybrid considering the emergence of the religious hegemony of Khomeini following on the heels of a legitimately modern revolution. Revolutions have different forms and different epochs construct different outcomes.

Sure this is historical quibbling but perhaps it is a fair question to ask what effect the structural preconditions for revolution that existed in the early modern and early industrialized world will have on a post-industrial 21st century society.

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» RE: Argentina... Posted by: oregoncharles
The Next President will have to take Bold Steps ...
Posted by: mmckinl on Feb 22, 2008 1:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As the article points out we are facing a perfect storm of social, economic and governmental failures that will paralyze the nation.

Only bold well thought out initiatives will begin to reverse the damage of the last 28 years. Only enlisting the public in this change will it have a chance. Of course the best candidate for this is Barack Obama. But even in him I see a timidity for real change, a lack of resolution for courageous measures. I say this after looking at his advisers and main contributors.

Is the Democratic Congress up to the task ? As of right now I would say absolutely not. The coming crises may help in giving then some backbone but the bet is a tossup from my angle upon seeing the rampant corruption that pervades their hierarchy.

There is a chance the country can repair itself but the two other scenarios loom large. They are the revolution that the author describes and then there is the fascist state that the powers that be have been constructing in and around every aspect of our lives for the last 7 years being brought to bear against us.

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Talk of revolution is slacker's talk
Posted by: Bobsays on Feb 22, 2008 2:12 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Revolution is not desirable for the following reasons: history shows us that revolution (think Russia, Cuba etc.) always ends up bringing in tyranny and killing many. The so-called American Revolution was not a revolution but a national liberation rebellion, which is a totally different thing.

Slackers talk of revolution when they couldn't be strong enough to build a national political movement to rival the Democrats and show how irrelevent they are. Real political and social change comes from building networks that are deeply part of the people and connect them to a bigger political project.

If you want to know the consequences of taking the violent route, you do not need to go too far back. At the beginning of the millennium Naomi Klein and crew were egging on violence at all international events. And what was the result? A massive state crackdown, authoritarian security measures and 9/11.

Revolution and terrorism are used by people like anarchists as an elitist act (because it is always a small number of people who do these things) to shortcut social and political change. It always ends badly.

It is true we will see crime and violent disorder because of injustice, but that is not revolution (street mobs do not bring about serious political change).

Revolutionary talk will only provoke conservative forces to violently mobilise to protect their interests. As we saw with the backlash against the Black Panthers, it will end in tears for progressives.

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» Ahistorical idiocy Posted by: Bobsays
» RE: Ahistorical idiocy Posted by: mmckinl
» RE: Ahistorical idiocy Posted by: Quannah
» RE: hilaryuk Posted by: kww355
» Reality Posted by: Striker123
How about energy independence as the basis of peaceful revolution?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Feb 22, 2008 2:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Social revolutionaries are always so very impractical. At the end of the day, everyone is still going to want a warm meal and a place to sleep that isn't freezing. Where will everyone turn? To the petroleum and coal and nuclear industries? Or to real renewables?

Right now, we ensure our access to energy supplies around the world via military force and diplomatic agreements. That is going to change, one way or the other, sooner or later. We are going to have to figure out how to do without foreign energy imports of fossil fuels, period.

That's the real revolution that needs to happen - an energy revolution based on sunlight, wind and sustainable, fossil-fuel free agriculture.

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» dude...you've OD'd on prozac... Posted by: psychchurch
and the choice is......
Posted by: DJPsychomike on Feb 22, 2008 3:35 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have always considered Bush to be simply carrying out the Clinton plan. As will McCain or Hillary.When Lenin called on troops- a sizable chunk went with him. There is no revolutionary party that could call a meeting of thousands of soldiers, and Generals today. If young protesters started giving their 911/ Larouche based conspiracy ideas out, they couldn't even get cops to join them.

Anyone entertaining violent revolution without at least a third of the military is smoking better stuff than I can get!

Here is the real problem:

350,000 kids under the age of 5 died because of sanctions Bill had on Iraq. Even tho at the time Saddam said he had no WMD.

No one ever says that might have created more terrorists.

Then he bombed Iraq for a month openly, and up until he left office secretly.

But for some reason, people don't remember this! How can we deal with any kind of change when we are still in denial about 1 million Iraqi's dead before Clinton left office?

Television interview, "60 Minutes", May 12, 1996:
Lesley Stahl, speaking of US sanctions against Iraq:
"We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean,
that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And -- and you know, is
the price worth it?"
Madeleine Albright: "I think this is a very hard choice,
but the price -- we think the price is worth it."
At the Town Hall in Columbus, Ohio, Feb. 18, 1998, Ms. Albright
was moved to declare: "I am willing to make a bet to anyone here that
we care more about the Iraqi people than Saddam Hussein does."

We are deep, deep trouble. It is quite clear both parties are having great difficulty entering the 21st century.

That means we should start thinking of either taking over the parties or starting a new one.

Tell you what, if you can get 10 million people to march for armed revolution ON NEXT SUPERBOWL SUNDAY and have at least several military units I'll listen to talk of revolution.

Until then, pass that bowl. And think about how to out- manuever the party honchos who talk peace but pay for war.
--

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» RE: and the choice is...... Posted by: RedAaron
Revolution? Or Evolution?
Posted by: roadrunner on Feb 22, 2008 3:43 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with whatsisface about getting our progressive asses kicked in a revolution, since those racist Aryan country boys are so much better armed than our urban Latino and Black gang bangers...

Oh. Uh... On the other hand...

Let`s rethink this: So, the country boys`ll all be riding high on trailer-cooked crystal meth, and our city boys will be advancing the cause with nostrils full of mountain-grown cocaine, pasture-fresh `shrooms, and hydroponic free-range weed.

The only question is: when the city boys are distracted by the `shroom-induced "mass UFO landings" will the country boys be sufficiently paranoid to start shooting each other?

Probably.

It`ll be the bloodiest non-revolution of all time.

The next day, Google will debut its brand-new dirt-cheep solar cells, oil and coal will become irrelevant, and computers will take over the world by distracting everyone with the most entertaining video game ever conceived, as they divert massive amounts of food to famine areas.



You`re living at the bottom of the steepest technological and cultural curve EVER.


GET AN IMAGINATION

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» RE: evolution? Or Evolution? Posted by: Knot_Rich
Interesting Points
Posted by: EKSwitaj on Feb 22, 2008 3:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But Obama's campaign is hardly an insurgent one. Well before anyone had voted, the mainstream media had pared the race down to a match between him and Clinton. He has the blessing of the party establishment and has had it since he gave a speech at the last Democratic national convention.

He and his campaign are immensely skilled at creating the appearance of insurgency and thus reappropriating the energies that might otherwise go towards revolution or working for real reform.

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» RE: Interesting Points Posted by: liberalibrarian
Wise words
Posted by: saltoafronteira on Feb 22, 2008 4:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's hope Barack clearly understands the issues, and has the wisdom to keep relying more in people's support that lobbyists.
Let's also hope that, if so, there will be a na election, and a fair one, this year and, why not say so, lets also hope he (Barack) gets there alive and in good health, in order to be elected. Lets also hope that, afterwards, he doesn't finish like is alter ego (JFK).
If not, the words above may become profetic.

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how ironic that....
Posted by: ellie on Feb 22, 2008 4:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
this article hit the web this morning.... in my 2 sections of sociology 101 yesterday, we talked about Davies J Curve, which is part of this little 'pocket' this author discovered.... just emailed all of these 101 students this article to read and comment on for some extra credit.... this discussion could get interesting fast!

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» RE: how ironic that.... Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: how ironic that.... Posted by: ellie
» RE: how ironic that.... Posted by: nochicagoboys
Blah, blah, blah!
Posted by: maxaron on Feb 22, 2008 4:32 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Revolution...Shmevolution...it's all B......T.

This country consists of about 50% moronic voters who don't know their right from their left and who consistly leave their smugly righteous predilections and garbage at the feet of those who seek our betterment through enlightenment. It's an old story and a sad one. Think of Enron and ponder that story for a while!

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Revolution renewed
Posted by: pgj1949 on Feb 22, 2008 4:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We in the US operate don't think we need revolutionary change because, after all, we already had our revolution! One of the reasons why both the Cuban and Venezuelan revolutions gained popular support was that each was seen as the continuation of a previous revolution. These previous revolutions have been part of the ongoing popular mythos of each people.
Castro and his people viewed their revolution as a continuation of the revolution led in the late 1800's by Jose Marti and others. (That revolution had been interrupted by the US's invasion of Cuba to take control from Spain.) In Venezuela, President Hugo Chavez has led what he describes as a continuation of the continent-wide revolution of Simon Bolivar. That revolution may have largely liberated the continent from Spain, but it did not liberate it from economic imperialism from el Norte.
When they supported Castro or Chavez, therefore, the People may have been opposing the corrupt oligarchy of the moment, but they may see themselves as standing with heroes like Maseo Gomez, Jose Marti, and Simon Bolivar.
If we are to create revolutionary change here in the US, we must first believe that both our revolution of 1776 and our constitution were the product of compromised (or sometimes abandoned) principles, and that our revolution therefore must be renewed. If giants and heroes participated in that revolution (as I believe they did), then our revolution must permit us to move forward in the company of Washington, Jefferson, and Dr. Franklin.

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Terrorist
Posted by: HeKnew on Feb 22, 2008 5:02 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Barack Obama is going to be either obstructed, co-opted, or murdered.

It's up to us to create change by whatever means necessary.

Which side are you on?

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» RE: Terrorist Posted by: liberalibrarian
"Revolution" is the secular equivalent of the "Second Coming"
Posted by: hagwind on Feb 22, 2008 5:14 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People love to fantasize and talk about it, but probably it ain't gonna happen any time soon. People who think it's gonna happen are always seeing signs that it's right around the corner. Their reports fill a lot of print and air space, but they don't make it happen faster.

P.S. History tells us pretty much anything that we're smart or stupid enough to read there.

P.P.S. What the dreamers of the Apocalypse keep missing is just how resilient both people and the system are. The absolute brilliance of the U.S. system is its resilience -- its ability to deal with change and the wild card. It's gone into nosedives before, but every time (so far) the citizens have managed to pull up before the plane hits the ground. Our most important job as citizens is to identify and challenge the areas where the system has lost its resilience. As far as I can tell, that's what this presidential election campaign is about. Everyone with a brain seems to realize that something needs fixing. This is a good sign.

P.P.P.S. On the other hand, any society where someone can make a career as a "strategic foresight analyst" may be in serious trouble, especially when the foresight analyst's hindsight is so murky. Nevertheless, hot air and bullpucky alone never caused a revolution, and probably won't cause the Second Coming either. Whew.

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Funny Revolution
Posted by: Stellaa on Feb 22, 2008 5:16 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Funny revolution when the aristocrats, the Kennedys and a Plutocrat Oparh are the cheerleaders.

Please, this is not a revolution. It's taking peoples anger and diverting their energy into the super appeaser and organization man. When has he risked offending the status quo? He is the voice of the status quo, framed to make the angry go along.

The revolution was cancelled for this feel good moment.

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» read the article, please Posted by: improperly_sedated
Past mistakes
Posted by: DobeyMan on Feb 22, 2008 5:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a 50-something year old, I feel like our generation failed successive generations by not insisting that Nixon, Kissinger and others responsible for the genocide perpetrated in SE Asia in the 70's be executed for their crimes. This failure was repeated again in the 80's by allowing GHW Bush and his friends to get away treason ("October surprise") and mass-murder (Latin America). Our current desperate situation is the inevitable result of allowing capital criminals to go unpunished. My hope is that we will one day have an opportunity to atone for these fateful mistakes. Any truly revolutionary change in our nation - required to restore democracy and the rule of law - must begin with the destruction of the Bush crime family and every other American guilty of mass-murder and treason. If we fail again to destroy America's criminal class, we do so at our own peril.

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» RE: Past mistakes Posted by: babs
Revolution Under Glass
Posted by: anna banana on Feb 22, 2008 5:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look, I’m as much in favor of revolutions as the next person, especially in a country that has supplanted Nazi Germany as the reigning horror of the world. But people have to be prepared to die in the cause of revolution. When there are a sufficient number of folks ready to give it up for what they believe, then it will happen. The conditions are the conditions are the conditions. So it raises the question, are things bad enough yet that people see death as preferable to living under the criminal class that directs this system? Do they yet see this system itself as an inherent evil? Remember, revolutions are not planned, they are the result of the spontaneous anger of people unwilling or unable to take it any longer. They are, regretfully, not fought because of a murderous foreign policy. They are born of hunger, repression, and acts of barbarism on the part of the ruling classes. I don’t think we are there yet. But I do think there will be some changes, but a word of caution; recent history has shown that we the people, when we can no longer be effectively controlled by propaganda, can be bought off relatively cheaply – a national health care program, for example, or increases in minimum wages or a realignment of sexual and racial equity—or all of the above. Over the long haul they won’t matter very much: the health care will be cumbersome and inefficient—and profitable to the same gangsters that run the HMOs; the increases in minimum wages will be offset by increases in the cost of living; and sexual and racial discrimination will persist as robust as ever, however less obvious. But it will be better than things are now, and it may be all that we can immediately hope for. The idea that there will be a significantly corresponding realignment of income distribution seems too far-fetched at present. But we could have an increase in regulation and enforcement, we might be able to curtail the most egregious acts of public theft and we might see some of the bastards responsible for the deaths of more than a million Iraqis at least publicly embarrassed. We’ll have to be satisfied with this for the present—all the talk of revolution is exactly that, talk. In fact, it’s worse than just talk, because it diffuses the energy required to push for change. If you want to do some good, go out in your own neighborhood and organize around those issues most vital to us. But don’t push the idea of revolution until you yourself are ready to pick up a weapon and go to war. When things get bad enough, you’ll have a lot of company.

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» RE: Revolution Under Glass Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Learn to shoot Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: evolution Under Glass Posted by: Dianka
The Coming Economic Depression
Posted by: ronheri on Feb 22, 2008 5:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author of this article has pointed out where we were, where we're at, and where we are surely heading in America. The Federal Reserve (Central-Banking Cartel), along with the power-elite (The Transnational Corporations) have overtaken our Republic. Americans with only a choice of a Republican candidate, or Democrat (Both parties owned by the same power elite); are waking up to the fact that neither party is for real change. The Democrats given control of Congress in 06 are a perfect example. Maybe the economic depression we are entering is just what is needed for freedom loving Americans to finally wake up to the stark reality that real change (Just as in the Vietnam War protests) will only come when we do take our revolution to the streets. We are losing our middle class jobs, our homes, any hope for the future and last but not least our beloved Constitution. "Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose". It's been over two hundred years since the last revoltion in America; it's my belief that the next one is coming very soon.

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Silly, silly woman
Posted by: KAEL on Feb 22, 2008 5:34 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Talk about cherry picking what we have in common with countries ready for violent revolution while omitting what distinguishes us, even at our most divided (which we are not), from that same fallow ground is a travesty to your adopted profession and to those of us who look for serious analysis in our free press. Back to Silcon Valley for you, faux journalist.

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» "Shut up!" he explained Posted by: improperly_sedated
soowee
Posted by: soowee on Feb 22, 2008 5:54 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The seeds of revolution have indeed been sown, but the question of whether or not the ground is fertile enough or well-enough watered is still open.

The US Supreme Court refused this week to review the eavesdropping practices of the Bush Admin. on citizens. This lack of check and balance by the judiciary on the executive is very troubling to me. Article II of the Constitution empowering the Executive Branch is very limited. It is the duty of the Congress and Supreme Court to enforce those limits. The Democrats in Congress (Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi) have already abdicated those responsibilities. The only recourse was the courts, and now that is gone.

George W. Bush is out of control--literally. He behaves as a dictator. He is the classic AA dry-drunk, mesmerized by his own power. If the other branches of government won't curtail his excesses, then violent revolution may well occur, and we are all in danger if that happens. It could very well go in a very malignant direction.

H. W. Ellerson
PO Box 90
Hadensville, VA 23067
(804) 457-4243

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» RE: soowee Posted by: dbkchi
I MUST BE A COMPLETE IDIOT
Posted by: skizum on Feb 22, 2008 5:57 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am the only one who thinks we need to address a much more fundamental issue at the root of the cycle of revolution; Human Nature. This is the topic that we urgently need to understand and learn to effective deal with.

Human nature is inescapable and fundamentally at the root of solving so many of the world's problems. We find ourselves at an important crossroad of having longer life spans, better ways to control disease, more leisure time, instantaneous global communication and a wealth of recorded history of human experiment... VS ...the ability to destroy ourselves very quickly or a bit slower, a path that we are currently and predictably on.

Allow me to broadly de-construct this issue a bit...Why do we have an aggressively growing gap between haves and have-nots nationally and globally? Why do we fight wars over resources? Why do the elite power brokers manipulate and deceive to consolidate more power? Why do employers cut benefits to raise their own profits? Why is the one economic scam or bubble bursting after another in increasing frequency?

I could go on asking 100 more similar questions and there will be a common answer to them all. These practices stem from one of most primal motivations integral to not only to human nature but animal nature as well...The need to dominate.

Think about it. Most mammals establish social order through dominance. Let's use the example of gorillas for the moment. The dominant alpha male establishes dominance through brute force so that he can have controlling access to territory, food, water, mating preference and so on. You can substitute many specific mammals into this model including humans.

In the case of humans, we have a much more developed sense of intellect, communication and technology to create many layers of complexity to camouflage our primal drive to dominate. Not only do we gain power through the enhanced brute force of armaments but we have developed languages which can be grossly malleable in meaning and rationale, susceptible to manipulation and control.

It is important for me to note that the need to dominate is not the only part of humane nature we need to pay attention to but it certainly is a good place to start. There are many other specific behavioral elements of the human condition that are common to us all.

I propose that we put a greater effort into identifying, verifying, disseminating an understanding of, assessing our individual and societal balance of the understanding of the elements of our own human nature. Let's create a humanely sustainable solution based on reality.

The Universal Humane Heeds Assessment Project:
My efforts in this regard go toward developing an intuitively understandable and comprehensively verifiable map or a periodic table describing the elements human behavior.

The theory goes something like this: Perhaps IF we can identify and verify a common set of needs/desires/experiences of the human condition AND realize a shared compassion for living humanely THEN we may be able to use these inherent truths as a basis from which to reevaluate our economic systems, social systems, governmental systems, environmental regulations and legal systems. The project is in it's infancy but growing steadily. While I understand that there is some research out there that correlates to mine, there is no doubt that the topic needs to be pushed to the forefront of our attention and should play a daily role in our conscious lives.

In effect, we need to come clean with reality and utilize our intellect and survival instinct to overcome our need to dominate as individuals.

Start Locally, Spread Awareness!

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» Bonobos Posted by: Cathyc
Our Ruling Class
Posted by: 538T on Feb 22, 2008 6:03 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The ruling class of the United States is the most powerful, entrenched ruling class the world has ever seen. They've had countless historical examples to learn from, have figured out all the right moves, and have us pinned down without hope.
Do you honestly think a recession, housing market bust, Bush presidency, and Iraq quagmire are signs of a crumbling elite? Roman and British ruling classes withstood much worse throughout history. So-called progressives who see plutocracy and unfairness as something new and unique to their own time are as narrow minded and unread as 12th century illiterate serfs.
Why did Louis XVI, Czar Nicholas II, Chiang Kei-Shek and Batista get overthrown? They were morons running a one-man show dictatorship. Our ruling class consists of dozens if not hundreds of elites ruling through concensus on golf courses, in boardrooms, and secret retreats.
The US ruling class has the common people completely divided against themselves on countless platforms- north-south, religious-secular, liberal-conservative, abortion, gays, war, immigration etc... It is classic divide and conquer and it works almost perfectly.
The only group who can destroy the ruling class is the ruling class; they'll have to start fighting and murdering each other to the degree that effective control is lost, and then only a foreign power or heavily armed group can finish them off. And then you'll just be exchanging one ruling class for another.

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» RE: Our Ruling Class Posted by: babs
Golly Gee
Posted by: GollyGee on Feb 22, 2008 6:11 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...we've already lined up all the preconditions that have historically set the stage for full-fledged violent revolution.

The few intelligent voices like bobsays and KAEL are about the only reason I read AlterNet comments anymore.

After seeing a comment on CommonDreams I got hold of A Force More Powerful (Ackerman and Duvall) based on the movie of the same name. (by Ghandi, Tutu, Walesa et al.)

Don't talk about revolution until you've read it. Both Jimmy Carter and McCain recommend it (!??!?)

Those who have said the U.S. is not ready for a violent revolution are right, and this is good because we don't want one.

Violence will only bring a dictatorship.

Non-cooperation is our only hope and we are ready for that. It does work. Everytime.

Read the book or accept that even McCain is better informed than you are — at least as far as revolution goes.

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» RE: Golly Gee Posted by: Dianka
» RE: Golly Gee Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Golly Gee Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Golly Gee Posted by: Striker123
» RE: Golly Gee Posted by: babs
» RE: Golly Gee Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Golly Gee Posted by: nochicagoboys
Revolutions and history
Posted by: Dianka on Feb 22, 2008 6:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Revolutions are driven by the poor. History shows how the general population can be oblivious to a developing revolution within their own nation because (as we see in the US today) poverty and the poor have been removed from the public discussion. I don't think Americans have any idea of the degree to which the equal legal/civil rights of the poor have been eliminated as a matter of official government policy. Revolutions are born when enough people realize that they have nothing left to lose.

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» RE: evolutions and history Posted by: VZEQICVA
Obama's Dilemma
Posted by: Urstrly on Feb 22, 2008 6:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The analysis used by the author does not take into account the rampant corporatism that is the hallmark of US society today. Obama has caught fire, I think, because there is a whiff of revolution in his rhetoric, while Clinton seems to be saying that the system only needs a little tweeking. If he sounds too radical, the msm and corporate powers will swoop down upon him, and I still worry that seeing McCain as defeated (or worse, a maverick), corporate forces will substitute NY Mayor Bloomberg.

Ron Paul's followers naively assume that we can right our course with less bureaucracy and less military force. They are blind to the giagantic strength gained by corporations and privatization of the military and surveillance operations. Only a legitimate government, competently run has a chance against these forces.

So my hope is for an Obama presidency in which the folly of the last eight years—in Iraq, on Wall Street, in healthcare, in education and home mortgages—doesn't come crashing down all at once. The only chance I can see for revolution is if they all combine into some "perfect storm" and people lose faith in anyone's willingness to address them.

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» RE: Obama's Dilemma Posted by: ronheri
» RE: Obama's Dilemma Posted by: fringedweller
container and contents
Posted by: mestrin on Feb 22, 2008 6:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sara Robinson's is an eloquent summary of the seething going on in today's American cauldron. However, to be really useful, we need also an analysis of the container in which this seething is occurring.

A pressure cooker is built to stand thermal activity beyond the boiling point, and over the years, plutocracy and militarism have built structures similarly thick and fortified. One can only imagine the ruthless power the corporate state can, and will be willing to bring to bear on a population in real revolt. New weapons of crowd control, pervasive spying, systemic brutality, concentration camps...all these are real options, currently at hand. Would even the revolutionary crowds of 1789, not to mention far softer current Americans, be able to withstand them and sustain a revolution?

So in addition to Robinson's analysis, we need also to analyze the chinks, if any, in the pervasive political, economic, and military armor of the state. This is now a crucial topic for incisive discussion and research, though it is also clear that the cauldron makers, alert to such threads, will move quickly to repair any noted flaws. Nevertheless, one can hope to stay an effective step ahead of a likely dinosaurish response.

I encourage the brilliant Sara Robinson to help us along with such research.

Marc Estrin

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» RE: container and contents Posted by: dayenta
Been happening for Years
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Feb 22, 2008 6:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article opens with a Kennedy quote,HUMMMMM??? The guy who let us all know America was'nt backing up it's people talks about revolution. Fuck that asshole the Revolution is here now!! The revolution started when we needed marches to get people of color the vote. It started when Women had to march to get recognized as 'worthy' of the same rights as men. It started when the Government renigged on ever treaty that was ever written. It started with Kent State. It ends with Bush and Company.
The Revolution thats been going on is one of the mind,thoughts and ideals. Fuck the Neo-cons the New conservatives and the christian right,they're all control freak assholes that think they know better than you. They don't.
If you can find contentment in life there's no amount of gold,glaomur or patriotic bullshit that's going to sway you. If you want a bloodless coup-de-tat start this way.
DON'T VOTE!! Boycott the damn thing. Why? An election is a political action. A political action carried out by the public. As such it's open to the same rules as any other political action. Namely, there needs to be a 2/3rds majority to pass. To date they have'nt been able to get half the people to vote which means they have never had a quarum. Let's start
now and keep a vow to ourselves that we will never again let slick-talking hucksters in public office. Let's get back the 90% tax bracket for the rich. It's the seat of their greed that creates all the need.
There's been a civil war going on for years in the big cities. In L.A. fake 911 calls are made and when the cops show up they get killed.
I don't agree with it but that's where the people have been pushed. There will be more of it. It will become the big thing on the news and soon your neighbors and friends will become enemy or ally depending upon their social standing.
But it does'nt have to be this way. Restore the rights taken away,give the people true Freedom and Liberty, give the people Healthcare,they owe it to us for generations of lax environmental regulations and for selling us out to big business. STOP PAYING TAXES!!! Jeffreson said 'From time to time Liberty's tree must be stained with the blood of Tyrants' That's the road we're on now. Let's think of a better way and then back it up.
Draft Jeffrey7 for Prez

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» RE: Been happening for Years Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Been happening for Years Posted by: jeffrey7
» RE: Been happening for Years Posted by: jeffrey7
what do you mean? "it can't happen here"--yes it CAN!!
Posted by: zooeyhall on Feb 22, 2008 6:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow! What can I say? I'm totally pumped after reading this!

As a student of history, it is great how the author puts present conditions into the historical framework of past pre-revolutionary situations.

I am dismayed by so many previous posters who generally take the tone "it can't happen here".

Bullshit!!!

Everything Marx predicted is coming true.

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Shocking
Posted by: mbruton on Feb 22, 2008 6:32 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While the author is sadly misinformed about Obama being a rogue element the idea that we could be nearing a revolution is self-evident. When people are pushed to far they revolt violently and we've been getting pushed further and further each day and at an accelerated rate for many years.

With concentration camps being built across the country by KBR and shiny new FEMA trains equipped with shackles you continue to drink your tea and figure things will just work out somehow?

The democratic leadership has done NOTHING to protect the constitution or to protect you from the massive martial law infrastructure that has been built up right before your eyes yet you think as soon as a dem is in office that will all change?

You fools. It's not a question of anybody PLANNING a revolution. It's a question of whether and how soon the government will force people to fight for their own survival. Your right in that we are not their yet but to not recognise the fact that we are sliding swiftly into a perfect marriage of "1984" and "Brave New World" you have to be ignorant beyond belief.

If you do not think your survival or at least your freedom are in danger it is only because you have no clue what you are talking about.

Get a gun and learn how to use it. You don't have to join any ill-thought revolutionary armies or but if a revolution does occur you will be glad you have it to protect your family even if your only action in the revolution is to hide from both sides.

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» RE: Shocking Posted by: ronheri
the scene in "Doctor Zhivago"
Posted by: zooeyhall on Feb 22, 2008 6:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is a scene in the movie "Doctor Zhivago", based on Russian author Boris Pasternak's great novel. It is when the Russian soldiers in World War I are shown exhausted, dissillusioned, and finally realizing that the Czar and his cronies don't give a rat's ass about them or their lives. They are starting to throw away their guns and go home. A man stands on top of a barrel and tells them that--even though things are bad, they need to work within the existing framework, try to reason with the ruling class, evolution rather than revolution. The barrel collapses, he falls, and is shot by another soldier.

To many "Progressives" are like that soldier standing on the barrel.

I'm not sure what Boris Pasternak was trying to say with this scene. But to me it is that when faced with a totally corrupt system, niceities and theoretical constructs aren't going to cut it!

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» RE: the scene in "Doctor Zhivago" Posted by: makeadifference
non-violent revolution is evolution
Posted by: chrysalis124812 on Feb 22, 2008 6:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All of the conditions listed in this article as cause for revolution are due to a lack of love.
We can start a personal revolution right now , we don't need someone else to lead us, this is the time to find leadership within. We can walk away from buying the crap they offer, from plastic baggies to automobiles to insurance. We can look to see who is struggling in our own communities, and lend a hand to them. We can begin growing our own food , and making our own energy, and take care of each other. Let them eat money. The change we yearn for is love, the revolution starts now.

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» Eating Money Posted by: pdxstudent
Aho!
Posted by: fifthworld on Feb 22, 2008 6:44 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Compare that Kennedy quote to the bland, banal "change" and "hope" of Obama. Don't give me this line about how he has to play the reformist game, put on a happy face and appeal to everyone. That would be fine if his intentions were really otherwise -- i.e. to really start turning things around -- but as I've been a broken record on this, I'll say it again: look at the man's top advisors, from Brzezinski to Pitzger, and you'll know that nothing's going to happen other than more war, more criminality, more cowardice. I'll put money on it: Obama is a disaster waiting to happen.

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» RE: Aho! Posted by: ronheri
What about the rest of the world?
Posted by: jalvarreto on Feb 22, 2008 6:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You make a statement in this article that puzzles me a little bit:
"Abroad, there's the misuse of military force, which forces the country to pour its blood and treasure into misadventures that offer no clear advantage for the nation."
Do you still justify the use of force if it were for the advantage of your country even if it were unfair? Do not forget that JFK and Clinton also had hostile international policies. Your nation has been great, but it would be even greater if the american people were taught that all countries have the same rights, and that the world should not be governed by a nation. However, a revolution, if you recall, in most instances depends on some kind of international support... this is a gray area here. Maybe the discontent of the world with america will add to the possibilities of a revolution, or it may very well be that the rest of the world will turn its back. I just hope that a violent revolution doesn't happen, that changes take place within the understanding that we need to respect human life in general, and that there are many ways to kill or give life to someone.

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» RE: What about the rest of the world? Posted by: tommy_slothrop
What will we do when they steal this election?
Posted by: antiapathy on Feb 22, 2008 7:24 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When McCain miraculously "wins" the election this November, despite wildly contradicting exit poll results and other irregularities, what will you do? Will it be enough to start the "revolution"? or will America just shrug and go back to watching Deal or No Deal? Will millions of protesters descend on DC, or will we buy their story about secretly racist voters who aren't ready for a Black president?

Does anyone seriously think the average American is inclined to do anything that could be considered even slightly revolutionary? When things get bad they drown their sorrows in television and twinkies. If they blame anyone, they blame immigrants, like that idiot did in an earlier post.

I think things will have to get a helluva lot worse before revolution, or even basic protest crosses the mind of most of the apathetic consumer zombies in this country.

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Boy, that was quick
Posted by: Graphictruth on Feb 22, 2008 7:28 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...an ad-hominim put-down in demonstration of the premise.

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Magnificent
Posted by: Jerry on Feb 22, 2008 7:42 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a magnificent analysis of our time. We are at the "moment for change", and change we must. The right wing have siezed C-Span from us, and their racist think tanks and nazi like young speakers strike fear into the masses. Yet there are many intellectuals in sympathy with the lower classes. They speak for us. Barak Obama is more than just a "herald of hope" he is a brilliant scholar and radiates presidential leadership. He may be our last hope for non-violent change. I pray we do not revolt violently. Dr. King succeeded non-violently, but revolt we must!

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There's a reason for Blackwater
Posted by: JSquercia on Feb 22, 2008 8:03 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is a reason for Blackwater they will be used to defend those of Wealth and Priviledge .
They were used in New Orleans to protect the Gated Communities and would have NO compunction about gunning down their fellow American's . Indeed many of them are NOT Americans at all .
Our hope may be that just as the Military in Russia turned on the Government our Military will FINALLY REFUSE to Obey clearly Illegal orders such as attacking Iran .
I too pray that the revolution will be able to by the Ballot Box and not the GUN . One key to that is MASSIVE voter turnout which it seems Obama is capable of generating .

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» I suspect the same thing Posted by: zeofredo
» Blackwater Thugs Posted by: meetmeineleusis
The part the author left out
Posted by: Babygoat on Feb 22, 2008 8:07 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This revolution will be harder than the rest because of the right wing neo-con's have a new army of mercenaries....Black Water-KBR-etc. and their based here in America! Gaining lands and more financial support than our own military that has been overlooked, overused and abused! The first thing Bush did was take our National Guard away and send them overseas to fight an illeagal war. We have lost nearly (approaching) 4,000 soldiers. I refuse to call them troops, they are people as in the "Tomb of the Unknown Soldier" not the tomb of the unknown Troop!
BLACKWATER was practicing in the New Orleans crowd controll....We need our leaders NOW before we are forced to accept the destiny of
our neighbors to the south, Chile, Manila and Uraguay. The list goes on but the players are the same! That's where they were recruited from. Every Mercenary is paid with our money!
With the gun reform they are trying to pass...we too will be left with only rocks to throw!-Donkey's to ride and Dirty water for our babies!

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It's different this time
Posted by: Dianka on Feb 22, 2008 8:32 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is one "side issue" that is overlooked, one important change from the era of social struggle in the '60's. Parents are seeing their sons and daughters starting to rise up. This time around, parents aren't regarding their children as brainless "rebellious youth" who must be taught to "behave", but as intelligent people who, at the least, have the courage and moral integrity to "say no to power". We are seeing a generation that is more educated than most of us were, and that in general has a very clear, uncluttered concept of justice. Our children have inspired many of us to shake off the dust. It's time for our sons and daughters to take the lead, and for us to roll up our sleeves and get to work behind them.

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» RE: It's different this time Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: It's different this time Posted by: ronheri
Pollyanna
Posted by: johngary on Feb 22, 2008 8:34 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, and everything happens for the best in this best of all possible worlds!
How about instead, God helps he who saves his own butt!

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This is not a vote on the scientific principle of chaos
Posted by: johngary on Feb 22, 2008 8:44 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is an exposition on the elements that when combined result in revolution!
It is not a call for a popular vote on the question.

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Dont miss the point!
Posted by: johngary on Feb 22, 2008 8:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is an exposition on the elements that when combined result in revolution!
It is not a call for a popular vote on the question.

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Seven Revolutions
Posted by: angry_prof on Feb 22, 2008 8:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The absolute worst outcome of a violent revolution or an attempted one, here or anywhere, would be, as in Iraq, the environmental "blowback." Yes, the Bush / NeoCon madness has pushed us past a tipping point, but it is not a threshold of corruption or illegitimate power, nor a dangerous level of global hostility, nor even the obscene expansion of the gap between rich and poor. It is in the condition of the environment. We are in the middle of five global revolutions, all more or less "peaceful," yet paradoxically violent and destructive: industrial, economic, political, social and informational. Acknowledgment and discussion of these revolutions and their impact are absent from the public discussion, partly because the scale of the intersecting crises they generate, and the possible worst case outcomes, are beyond our ability to imagine. A sixth revolution, in the condition of the living earth, is the result of the other five. And if we try to fix them one at a time and piecemeal we will fail, and the question of evolution, revolution or reform will become irrelevant. A seventh revolution, I argue, is inevitable, a revolution in thinking. It will come one of two ways, too late as the world slips into chaos - the failure of global agriculture will be a major tipping point - or now, very soon as a conscious, shared, large scale paradigm shift. The U.S. economy, driving the global economy (into the ditch) is organized on the principles of War, Waste, and the obscene abuse of Wealth. The global economy must be restructured on the principles of sustainability and human rights. And a quick evolution, or revolution in thinking is the only possible remedy. Obama is the only candidate still standing who speaks of changing the "mindset" that got us into Iraq, and he seems to see the connections between the economy, the war, infrastructure and the environment. Of course I fear he will not be allowed to take office or to live through his first term, but we can only imagine ... or hope ... how deeply his call for change will go, in the back rooms of the CIA / NSA, or in his own mind. But even the mention of changing an obsolete mindset sparks my imagination. angry_prof at myartrant.net

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» RE: Seven Revolutions Posted by: grn1
Use of Money as a Tool of Revolution
Posted by: Southern Gal on Feb 22, 2008 8:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only real power that we individuals have in this country is our use of our money. If you want to revolt against the status quo, stop spending your money on anything but necessities. Try to be as self sufficient as possible. This country depends on consumer spending. If consumers don't spend, then the government is in trouble and the corporations are in trouble. If We the People don't cooperate with the establishment,they will have to respond. The United States has the best government that money can buy. We the people will never have as much money as the corporations, so we won't be able to influence the government to the degree that corporations do. Elections are every four years, so we have limited opportunities to change or challenge the establishment. Plus political campaigns are so expensive, that candidates take money from the very corporations that should be taxed and regulated for the good of the people. Our most relevant negotiating tool is our use of our money. There are many facets to revolution and use of money is one that every person can do and one that can have a great impact.

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which is it?
Posted by: mike1997 on Feb 22, 2008 9:07 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Isn't that the point ( violent revolution is to be avoided at all cost)of the article? The author merely points out that the preconditions for revolutions are gathering and that if things get much worse and people feel cut off from their government or feel that the government is unresposive to their needs they will turn violent. Which is a bad thing and needs to be controlled through progressive democratic change.

Who could disagree? Unless of course you disagree with the premises that A: The American middle class is stretched to the breaking point or B that the US government is unresponsive to the needs of that Middle class. Which is it? I would like to see that discussion.

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» Sociopaths control America Posted by: Cathyc
Alternatives???
Posted by: Sanford on Feb 22, 2008 9:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The incompetence and malfeasance of government may not produce a revolution in the USA, although Sara Robinson makes a pretty good case for it. Instead the country may finally become so fatally polarized that civil war erupts. This latter seems to me the more likely outcome. How, to give just one example, can thinking people (assuming they still exist) make common revolutionary cause with dodder-heads who re-elect corrupt members of congress over and over again while at the same time giving that congress a less than 20 percent approval rating?

I think, though, that the country has become dumb enough, frightened enough and sufficiently demoralized that it will simply – and passively - drift along to totalitarianism. Some other scholar, from another perspective, may have outlined the seven steps to dictatorship. They shouldn’t be that different but maybe with the addition of an eighth: an apathetic public

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» RE: Alternatives??? Posted by: Sanford
» RE: Alternatives??? Posted by: Sanford
"When you have nothing, you have nothing to lose"
Posted by: makeadifference on Feb 22, 2008 9:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"When you have nothing, you have nothing to lose". It WILL eventually reach critical mass and there WILL be a revolution. Visit a gun show and see the NRA members that are in the KNOW, that are developing their militias... check it out... they are building in every state! Also, don't disregard the military... many see what is going on and who or what they are risking their life for!

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Weedchild
Posted by: michael-jay on Feb 22, 2008 9:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This timely article uncovers the bruised soul of America but refuses to share the blame for not protecting the real barriers to liberty and hope. The real basis for good government has been denied for generations. Democrat fascism in the Wilson era allowed the Federal Reserve Bank and that was used to finance the Bolsheviks,who were trained by Rockefeller's mob, Democrat socialism under FDR set up the creation, under Truman, of Red China, Democrat treason under Clinton supported the Mena, Arkansas/CIA drug cartel imports under the guiding hand of G H W Bush. Under the compassion of Janet Reno, the fascist state immolated a church filled with black children in Waco, Texas. Democrat failures in this present era of empire building and phony blame-game, false-flag operations set up the fear-monger "surrender of our rights for security" dynamics that have raped our Constitution.
Americans have been "played" by the orchestrated dialectic sheet-music of "new-world-odor" prostitutes of both parties, who understand and obey the real "hidden hand" masters that hijacked the engines of American liberty early on in the last century, through the Federal Reserve. That act of treason (giving control of our treasury to internationalist, fat-cat banksters) has paid for every whoring politician we've ever been betrayed by, both conservative and liberal.

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» Blowback is here! Posted by: makeadifference
in the box thinking won't save anyone now
Posted by: siamdave on Feb 22, 2008 9:28 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Much smoke little fire. People need to get out of the box. They're Building a Box - and You're In It - http://www.rudemacedon.ca/dlp/box/box-intro.html

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Puh-leeeeeze
Posted by: jshubbub on Feb 22, 2008 9:30 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is the most pitiful example of wishful thinking I've seen in a good while. To top that off, the author spends the whole time lumping herself in with the rest of us Americans while she fails to mention that she lives in Canada. You want to comment on the state of America? Fine, do that. You might want to mention that you're in a completely different boat, though, rather than playing to our sympathies by presenting yourself as one of us.

If you want to foment revolution then start in your own country and let us worry about ours.

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» one quote says it all. Posted by: Coleman
» RE: one quote says it all. Posted by: jshubbub
» RE: Puh-leeeeeze Posted by: babs
» RE: Puh-leeeeeze Posted by: Mrs. Robinson
» RE: Puh-leeeeeze Posted by: jshubbub
Revolution is OVER DUE!
Posted by: madmax427 on Feb 22, 2008 9:33 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My comment is based solely on My personal experiences, not a study of History. I was rasied in a system that stated We had rules to govern Our actions: You HAD to work within the RULES to do anything or get anywhere. Yet, when I used those rules to achieve MY Goals, the "rule Book" was thrown out the window by Those who were "in Charge" and in direct conflict of those WRITTEN Rules, I was made to do things STRICTLY FORBIDDEN by that SAME "rule Book"! This was done JUST to "show" Me how one sided the "rules" were. Fast forward a few decades and I find that Life, Liberty and the persuit of Happiness are just more words to tease the common man with.

The morals I was raised to believe in as eprtaining ot My Country, have been corrupted and bastardized by Our "Legal System". Human Life & Equality have been trivialized by Laws designed to protect the Elite & Wealthy. In Colorado, A Wrongful Death of a Human Life has a MAXIMUM Penalty of $341,250.00! And that Penalty is REGARDLESS of the circumstances surrounding that Death. What I mean here is, it doesn't make any difference if the death was merely accidental or if the Ones responsible for that Death were BLANTANTLY & Knowingly creating the conditions that promote a greater chance of these types of Deaths occurring JUST to "save" a few dollars!

It USE to be, or so I was led to believe, that IF Anyone PURPOSELY IGNORED or INTENTIONALLY Bypassed Safety measures designed to keep Poeple SAFE, The "Punishment" for those actions could be EXTREME! NO so anymore with Laws like those in Colorado! The Guilty are PROTECTED from Monetary Exposure, REGARDLESS of Their motives & actions!


I Lost My Father to Union Pacific Railroad because They installed a SUBSTANDARD Crossing so They could SAVE a few hundred dollars on that ONE crossing. If You multiply those "savings" by the number of simular crossings, You are talking a Very Large sum of $$$'s. In the process of suing Union Pacific for Their blatant disregard for SAFETY, An Independant Inspector evaluated this Crossing and He determined it to be SUBSTANDARD. After MUCH effort, the Federal Railroad Administration Finally 'inspected' this Crossing and in direct opposition to U.P. Standards & the Independant Inspector, Informed Me the Crossing DID meet U.P. Standards: In other words They PROTECTED the Railroad INSTEAD of DOING Their JOB of Enforcing the Railroads OWN Standards! (The Elite PROTECTING Their OWN!)

This is ONLY ONE example of the Corruption that is rampant in "Our" Government! Even so, I can SHOW You that efforts to suppress My fight against this injustice has been carried out BY "Our" Government for almost THREE YEARS because My first attempt to expose this to the general Public was in fact working! I did this by starting a web site designed to expose Union Pacific & "Our" Government. I "Lost" My first web site because it WAS working, One computer was sabotaged beyond My capability to repair, Two others have been "modified" to make using them extremely difficult, I have seen evidence of My online activity being monitored in REAL TIME. I have requested a Postal Inspector to investigate My mail and have been IGNORED for YEARS on that one!

What AMAZES Me is that I'm "a nobody", Yet I have been "targetted" by "the System" as Dangerous because I believe My Fathers' Life was/is worth more than $341,250.00!

I believe the Reason for My current situation and censorship is because conditions for this type of 'rebellion' against injustice is RAMPANT in Our current System and "They" cannot allow the knowledge to become known in the mainstream of Society, NOT because I'm so good at causing them trouble. CENSORSHIP is the biggest & BEST tool right now and it is being OVERWORKED!

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Weedchild
Posted by: michael-jay on Feb 22, 2008 9:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This timely article uncovers the bruised soul of America but refuses to share the blame for not protecting liberty and hope. The real basis for good government has been denied for generations. Democrat fascism in the Wilson era allowed the Federal Reserve Bank and that was used to finance the Bolsheviks,who were trained by Rockefeller's mob, Democrat socialism under FDR set up the creation, under Truman, of Red China, Democrat treason under Clinton supported the Mena, Arkansas/CIA drug cartel imports under the guiding hand of G H W Bush. Under the compassion of Janet Reno, the fascist state immolated a church filled with black children in Waco, Texas. Democrat failures in this present era of empire building and phony blame-game, false-flag operations set up the fear-monger "surrender of our rights for security" dynamics that have raped our Constitution.
Americans have been "played" by the orchestrated dialectic sheet-music of "new-world-odor" prostitutes of both parties, who understand and obey the real "hidden hand" masters that hijacked the engines of American liberty early on in the last century, through the Federal Reserve. That act of treason (giving control of our treasury to internationalist, fat-cat banksters) has paid for every whoring politician we've ever been betrayed by, both conservative and liberal.

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Obama is in the Senate...
Posted by: oregoncharles on Feb 22, 2008 9:42 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and therefore directly responsible for Harry Reid and the Democratic Congress's bizarre malfeasance. He has voted for funding the war, changed his tune on national health insurance, and otherwise indicated his essential patsiness.

The preconditions for revolution are also preconditions for radical political change. Please, everybody, when you realize how sold-out Obama really is, remember:

There is a real progressive party in this country, and we will be running for President and Congress this year: running just as hard as we can. How hard that is depends on YOU. If you're ready for something radical, you can work and vote for the Green Party.

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Robinson: Evolution v. Revolution
Posted by: sslyon on Feb 22, 2008 10:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
EXCELLENT! This is certainly the most lucid and accessible analysis of our political State Of The Union I've seen to date. Robinson documents the process of political change and while in this case focusing on the probable result of Revolution, reveals in silhouette the alternative of peaceful Evolution that, at all but the final stages is available to American citizens. That is, it's available to those who aren't numbed by corporatist propaganda and what's trying to pass for entertainment. Her clarity of vision and purpose should provide sufficient motivation for citizens to take charge of their collective political fate before it gets to the tipping point.

This article should be broadly disseminated and is motive and inspiration to positive action by citizens of nearly every political stripe.

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Be Aware
Posted by: brainvib on Feb 22, 2008 10:21 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Conservative rascals who are currently in charge and the power elite who are in league with them are aware of the possibility of revolution, if not immediately, certainly in the future, and have taken steps to assure their ability to quash it.
1. All volunteer professional army.
2. Large and elite mercenary corp.
3. Tracking and noting all meaningful financial
transactions.
4. Tracking and controlling air travel
5. Soon to be implemented tracking and controls
on rail travel
6. You can bet within 5 years ALL travel will
be tracked and/or controlled.
7. Government phone eavesdropping.
8. Continued efforts toward either a national
ID card or drivers license or paqssport
9. Subtle limits on right to assemble and free
speech
If you would sit and think you will uncover other additional elements in an overall plan
for tracking and control that will make an attempt at revolution not only only difficult but futile and open to stern repression and punishment. The Bush administration has not constructed the refugee camps for nothing
Sorry, I think the conservatives feel a revolt is possible, if not probable, and are in the preparation stages and will be ready. The conservatives are preparing, the progressives are talking.
At 71 I might not be here when it happens.But I do wish success. VIVE LA REVOLUTION!!!!!!!!!

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How do you teach revolution to Americans?
Posted by: kegbot1 on Feb 22, 2008 10:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I love Sara Robinson's writing, but I think she overestimates the ability of the American public to adopt a revolutionary mindset, even if they are having their homes, jobs and futures taken away.

Learned helplessness is a powerful deterrent to revolution and the American people have been taught to be helpless for the last 50 years.

more here

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This is why we aren't going to win this revolution.
Posted by: TimeWave Infiniti on Feb 22, 2008 10:33 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because articles like this that actually reach intelligent individuals willing to recognize the necessity for conscious change in the world are centered around putting all the blame on "conservatives". Anyone with the slightest bit of knowledge exceeding that which leaks from the idiot box knows that it is both republicans AND democrats who are leading us into oblivion. The democrats aren't just complicit. they are actively involved in all the things that all of us concerned/loving/realistic/wonderful people consider to be a stain on our society. the 2 party system only serves as an illusion to trick people into a false sense of comfort. a comfort in the form of lessening the responsibility of the citizen. it would be so simple if we could just kick back and have faith that the media, who are obviously not on our side, could have their poster child in the white house (obama). unfortunately the media has not had a moment of clarity. we have to stop being naively drawn to this two party football game mentality of the world.

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I've said it before and I'll say it again:
Posted by: GarrisonPayneLeonard38H on Feb 22, 2008 10:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wasn't a sort-of Revolution attempted once, a while back? I think they called it The Civil War...

In that case, secession -- backed by strong political, cultural, and social forces, and prosecuted by a brilliant military leader -- cost us mountains of our best young people. The Reconstruction that followed scarred America in ways that have not healed in 120 years.

Think things were bloody in 1864? Try Part II in 2010: I suspect that it will resemble our Civil War more than it will any of the revolutions of the last 230 years.

And let us not forget those ultimate Patriots in our North and West: The Militia folks in several states will finally get to choose a Fuhrer.

The unhappy fact of revolution is that you don't get to pick your revolutionary: Who succeeds in that game is a matter of pre-existing advantages on a profoundly nonlevel playing field.

The Greed Culture is ready for revolution: They have Blackwater -- urban-warfare trained -- to help the next dictator "restore order".

Let's try to find a fix that does not provoke all the nightmare possibilities of the Law Of Unintended Consequences.

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Obama is not it
Posted by: militaryhater on Feb 22, 2008 10:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama is riding a wave of desperate Americans. I am shocked at things I hear people saying that are for him....a savior from their falling apart lives. We need a new direction, he is it. WE LOVE OBAMA. That expectation is pretty scary for one human, one man..Obama to have to live up to. I don't envy him if he should fail.

The desperation in their eyes, scared the hell out of me as they are making this man the leader of a Revolution that they want and need. He is their only HOPE. The ONLY ONE!

He will fail as he has been paid off by corporate financing. How can he bite the hand that feeds him? How? Will he have the balls to take their money and then go after them to save our constitution...our way of life? If this man has Lied to his base, he better run for the hills. Americans will not take to lying politicians anymore. He may be the wrong candidate at the wrong time for these desperate people he is pandering to. They are so desperate, they can't even see clearly anymore. It is SCARY!

It is a good thing A Canadian wrote this article as I am sure the neo-cons would be on a downright hunt to get this woman if she lived here for inciting 'Terrorism'. Yes, there is a new law that was passed against anyone that incites a movement that is against the government. This story shocked me as here it was on Alternet. Balls is all I can say.

Wake up America...there is no one running that is on your side or wants to bring back the 'Golden years' of FDR and the New Deal that enriched and made our lives well. The rich people are all that are running for the highest job in our country and the one office of all that most affects our lives. No Middle class person running in this election. The ones that cared for the Middle Class and wanted America restored were Ron Paul, Kucinich, Gravel, and finally the true progressive...Wellstone...GONE! Obama, Hillary and McCain...all rich. No true progressive and no one really willing to help save us from our downhill spiral. We have no good choice.

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» RE: Obama is not it Posted by: Striker123
» RE: Obama is not it Posted by: babs
May we live in interesting times..
Posted by: militaryhater on Feb 22, 2008 10:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess we are.

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Here's a better idea. TURN OFF YOUR TV !
Posted by: maxpayne on Feb 22, 2008 11:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now that there's virtually nothing good to watch, you might as well save your monthly payments and put that towards better health and living. Yeah, I know, I'm an "anti-tv vigilante" !

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» American MSM television Posted by: Cathyc
Very good article
Posted by: spencerh on Feb 22, 2008 11:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, Ron Paul's ideology (Libertarianism) is the source ideology for our own government's ideology (an eroding Liberal Democracy laden with Neoliberalism). He'd change a few things around, but it'd like be worse domestically instead of internationally.

Corporate welfare would disappear, but corporate power would increase to do the dismantling of whatever business regulations we have left. Think corporations are powerful now? Just wait until OSHA, the minimum wage, and anti-retaliation agreements disappear.

Free trade agreements would get jettisoned, but privatization of public goods and government services would continue to spread like wildfire. You'd be even more "Own Your Own". How 'bout them privatized fire and police forces? No "crime insurance"? Sorry, can't help you!

Imperialism and wasteful military spending would go away, but so would social services like Medicare/Medicaid, SCHIP, unemployment insurance, and disability insurance. You can toss away your dreams of Universal Health Care of Universal Higher Education too.

We'd toss out the Fed (Neoliberalism demands a central bank, unlike Economic Libertarianism), while giving private bankers and financial instituions even more power - and introducing even more instability due to the lack of reserve requirements (which are meager now, but would be gone completely) and lack of oversight (Imagine if there was no SEC and such at all).

We'd probably get more things like stem cell research bans lifted, but we'd also open the floodgates to the medical quacks of the country due to the lack of FDA (which has been coopted due to anti-regulation nuts being put in charge. It's the American Neoliberal way of dismantling public goods. Instead of shutting them down, just put Neoliberals in charge so they can do nothing in those positions).

So we'd exchange imperial tyranny abroad for privatized tyranny at home. What a trade!

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» RE: Very good analysis! Posted by: GarrisonPayneLeonard38H
We've proved her point
Posted by: Koondog on Feb 22, 2008 11:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Has anyone seen an Alternet article that provoked as many comments as this one? Or as passionate?
That alone tells me there is something just beneath the social veneer of Amerika 2008 that the writer has her finger on. The number of responses alone tends to validate her point.

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» RE: We've proved her point Posted by: Cathyc
A violent revolution isn't a revolution at all ...
Posted by: smendler on Feb 22, 2008 11:46 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... because the real revolution is against violence itself.

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George and Martha Washington---2008
Posted by: zooeyhall on Feb 22, 2008 11:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Imagine George and Martha Washington being alive in the America of today:

George: "Martha, I'm off to lead the Revolutionary armies...to secure our liberties and defeat the oppressors"

Martha: "George! Don't you DARE! What will the neighbors think????"

George: "You're right Martha. It might also look bad on our credit rating. And my employer may put it in my HR file. Better to lie low and let someone else do it."

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The inevitable
Posted by: jomama on Feb 22, 2008 12:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To me, it appears revolution is inevitable.
Many will be impoverished in the coming years
as governments go bankrupt in the droves.

There is an alternative to a bloody one and
the only kind I think will work.

Heads up. History shows force, the main
menu of government and revolution, always eats itself.

Can we get it right this time?

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Be still, my heart
Posted by: badkitty on Feb 22, 2008 12:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, I've waited a long time to see something like this, and I've always hesitated to bring up the "R" word in print, because of possible retaliation by "our" "government". But the author has already left the country, so she may be more relaxed than I am. My view is that Roosevelt bought off the revolution in the 30s with his infrastructure projects, Johnson bought it off in the 60s with his "War on Poverty", and the only candidate for president--Edwards--who might have averted what's coming down the road (violent revolution or not) has suspended his campaign. The ruling class doesn't seem to be thinking clearly these days, and economic collapse and the ramifications of global warming seem to have completely eluded them. So I would prepare for the worst, in every sense. Violent revolution is not our best option, and it may not be what happens, but it is one of the things for which we should be prepared. For those Americans who have already been beaten up, shot at, and tear gassed more times than they can remember by the state, it'll be bad; for the rest of you, it'll be worse.

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Indonesia Suharto-Kissinger Passed over Story
Posted by: herbal on Feb 22, 2008 1:28 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB242/index.htm

This is an example of US interventionism. The revolution may not come so much within, but as a consequence of international abuse of the international monetary system. The US may be the worst abuser because the dollar is the standard of trade and oil credits. However, the entire western hemisphere is losing its dominance of world finance and economy to the emerging Asia. This emerging Asia includes Russia with China and SE Asia. Together they have the power of internal markets for goods, and enough nearby non-US dominated oil and virgin minerals to prolong infatuation with oil based economies. Its ironic that China slavishly follows the US model.

A return to a near cold war is predictable and missile destruction of satellites has already begun a race to space militarization. The US simply has to give up on the idea of Neo-colonial Empire (colonialism broke the back of Britain).

OPEC needs only to force a switch from the USD$ to the Euro to plunge US into economic chaos. Perhaps only the House of Saudi has forestalled the disintegration of the USD$.

These inevitable transitions to a new diversified and decentralized order can be made less painful by our own domestic action. This may happen only with conscious and organized micro rebellion on a community level. This is a call to non-violent spiritual and material dedication; and democratic (individual) investment of money and time. Sustainability, the object.

Our country, through its community activism, social and technological, can soften the blow of loss of alpha dog status. We shall say good riddance.

As far as revolution in the traditional sense, there is no profit in violence, ie. as Suharto and US State Dept. have demonstrated so aptly. Unlike Fidel Casto's revolution, the progressives do not have the heart to dominate by murder. The Republican Party does indeed have the black(water) heart, as it has aptly demonstrated in the present Moslem wars. The Democratic Party, DNC style, has not a much better track record (Vietnam, etc). Progressives need to be smarter than that and pledge to pacifism or there is no short term hope.

Long term hope is a certainty because as the fuel for the oil based technology levels out and begins to drop, there is no choice but radical & foundational change. So we are engaged in a desparate race to keep pace with the end of old inertia as its dying star fades (hopefully not exploding). This, by creating a new inertia with small but exponentially accreting mass that accelerates from its separate direction. Alternative agriculture is providing the first successful step. I have a forthcoming book...Lon Ball

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Now Just One More Step
Posted by: gonzoskismet on Feb 22, 2008 2:54 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is a great read. It makes me
nostalgic for the Good Old Sixties. But the author forgot the crucial last step that would be necessary to make the American people angry enough to revolt against the current system of government.
The Last Step would be if they could no longer go to Wal-Mart, no longer go to the Mall
(any Mall, anywhere, what's the difference?), no
longer go to Starbucks, MacDonalds, Burger King,
etc. Coinciding with this, they can no longer fuel their Hummers and SUV's. They can no longer talk on their cell phones or text message their friends.
I'm sorry to be so cynical about my fellow country men and women, but the aforementioned
Seven Steps are not enough to bring the majority of Americans to the brink of Revolution. These are a shallow, vain, egotistical people who are self absorbed in their own pleasures and could give a shit less about the suffering of their fellow human beings as long as they can still get what they want. If it comes down to a choice, they would gladly accept fascism, plutocracy or any other form of government that
assured them that Wal-Mart will always be open, they will always be able to get there and spent what little money they have. It's a sad commentary on Western Civilization but look around you and tell me I am wrong. Please.

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Forget About Nation States, Transnational Elites are the Power
Posted by: sofla100 on Feb 22, 2008 2:56 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
China and SE Asia are experiencing an emergence of elites that are quickly being integrated into an international system of transnational elites. It is very important to understand what this is and represents. In the USA, it's only 1% of the population that enjoys true elite status, a 1% that owns close to 1/2 the countries resources. In China, an emerging elite is taking place based on the American model. It's this elite, that along with Russia and America's elite, that are quickly coalescing into a force of ultimately less than 1% of the total population of these countries combined, but however controls 1/2 or more of these countries resources and also regulates and controls the political and governing processes of these countries as well. Of course, it all started with the USA, the citadel of capitalism, and as capitalism spread and wealth became concentrated, the inevitable result is an elite which owns the means of production of these countries. Now, it is an elite that understands its members well. Money talks and money works with other money to manipulate and control the stock/equity markets of the world to create even more wealth. It's an elite that determines, as they work together, who will be a specific countries rulers, what war(s) will be waged, what will happen with currencies, oil prices, etc. It's also very important to understand that this elite is transnational. In other words, they don't give a rat's ass really about specific countries, they can get in a corporate jet and fly anywhere in the world they want to within hours. Countries, to them, are becoming increasingly irrelavent. Just governments to be managed to keep themselves wealthy and as the real power. As for the USA, it's script is simple. GW is the boy they own, he was sent into Iraq for the oil and for the elite to project its power into the Muslim world. He also followed the script well, he reduced taxes for the rich and sent the US dollar plunging as the USA deficit exploded. All predicted and managed and making the transnational elites mega money.

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» The Sane v. The Insane Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: The Sane v. The Insane Posted by: sofla100
just a little itch
Posted by: lukitas on Feb 22, 2008 3:06 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is an eighth point here. Oil will soon be failing to deliver. And when America is screaming for juice, who knows what could happen.
Keep our hands on your hats, people, a high wind is blowin' up.

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Don't Underestimate the American People
Posted by: macdon1 on Feb 22, 2008 3:25 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans may seem to be weak willies more interested in going to the Mall than opposing an unjust government, but don't underestimate the capacity for ferocity in people when they feel they have been abused and taken advantage of. Years ago a brilliant public interest lawyer told me that people will rise up when the middle class is affected and starts losing its comfortable life style. That time has arrived. Obviously the neocons think something might happen or they wouldn't have mercenaries ready to take over our city streets, detention camps prepared and habeas corpus suspended.

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The Conquest of Bread
Posted by: JMTulip on Feb 22, 2008 3:35 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't help but think that the "7 Points to Revolution" is a lot like the "14 Points to Fascism." That is to say, a gross over-simplification of an incredibly complex political phenomenon.

Nonetheless, in terms of what is possible: aim high America. And on your way, read "The Conquest of Bread"

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Moot
Posted by: rcpi on Feb 22, 2008 3:38 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The aspiration for a violent revolution to fix the problems at hand is a moot point. Arguable to the Nth degree, but I think pragmatically irrelevant. I don't see the capacity for organizing, in a country of 300 million people, any kind of relevant coup. Too many factions.

Violence for the expectations of a instant change with a better outcome never happen (see below). Social, economic, and governmental change and its observable outcomes, good or bad, are agonizingly gradual and always will be, violently induced or not. Presumably that's why people study history; to find out what the outcome is.

However, there will always be those that are itchin' for a fight, and see that as the best solution to a difficult situation (albeit sometimes correctly.)

In addition, advocating violence against the corporate military complex and it's legions of 'conscientious' Limbaugh listeners is a tragic prescription with likely massive side affects (see your doctor for elections lasting more than 4 years).

Who knows, the plutocracy may just obliterate the entire civilized world structure themselves. moot

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"They" Know
Posted by: Kuragami on Feb 22, 2008 4:32 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is something I'm very serious about and I didn't make this up.

"They" that is the "Elite" know that a revolution is possible. In fact they think it is more than possible, they think it is coming. They are preparing for it and have been preparing for it for years.

I first heard of this from a source I'd rather not name. However even without secret sources and cloak and dagger one neads to only follow the alternate media from the past 7 years or so.

This won't end in some romantic way. That's for sure.

They have almost everything going for them as of right now.

1. Laws. Laws that paint you as a terrorist for even suggesting violence against the state. Laws that allow a select few in power to name you as an Enemy Combatant and stick you somewhere indefinitely. Laws like the "Veterans Disarmament Act" that strip gun rights from Veterans by the state who uses the VA's own medical records against vets. Not shocking to me the NRA pushed Bush to sign it into law.

2. Space necessary to hold hundreds of thousands of people should there be an instant requirement. A good part of these are the old Japanese internment camps that many people still feel shame over and Congress decided to continue funding and expanding from 2 to 10 sites in 2006. The rest were built over the years by everyone's friend KBR. Combined they can house hundreds of thousands of people.

3. A paramilitary force willing to do whatever it takes on the state's say so. Blackwater is still a relatively small organization but they are growing fast and were instrumental in completely disarming New Orleans' law abiding residents.

4. A military that conducts "Live" exercises in cities across the country where they place road blocks and search vehicles, conduct staged Martial Law enforcement, repel from helicopters in the middle of town or even attempt to take over local law enforcement. Those in the military know what a "Live" exercise is and they know that it is against the law to do it anywhere but on federal government property.

5. Military PsyOps that is turned against the population. It is now a known fact that the military has been manipulating news items across the country and have been forced to close read "rename and move elsewhere" their public facing office which was called "Office of Strategic Influence". In combination with the CIA's operatives in Main Stream News outlets in the country, at least according to the CIA's own Director William Colby, They help control information read "Propaganda" in ways the Soviet Politburo and GRU could have only dreamed of.

And the "Tell" that gives away their final intention is the US Military that asks its own soldiers if they are willing to shoot friends and family members if it became "necessary".

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» RE: "They" Know Posted by: Collielady
Typical Unfounded Lib Claims
Posted by: DY on Feb 22, 2008 5:48 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I doubt very seriously that anyone tried to disenfranchise those students. Just another baseless swipe.

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Will somebody please tell me WHERE these Damn camps
Posted by: form516 on Feb 22, 2008 6:30 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
are supposed to be? I keep hearing that they are going to warehouse citizens that they do not like and are building camps in order to do this. It must be the best kept secret ever. Where are these "camps"? Tell me please and I will shut up.

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» Well, here's where one is... Posted by: nochicagoboys
Revolution on Alternet - All of us have left this site and the odd ones have entered Ugh!
Posted by: Turiye on Feb 22, 2008 9:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
n/f/e

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Revolutionaries or whiners?
Posted by: Sum Won on Feb 22, 2008 10:20 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does the average middle class American feel rebellious because he empathizes with those who have less or because he is frustrated and jealous of those who have more?

I'll believe in the revolution when they stop shopping and start building community. When they are willing to fight for ideas and values rather than complain about jobs and bills.

These so-called revolutionaries are primarily wealthy whiners when compared to many out there in the world who are dealing with severe oppression and are forced to fight back for their survival rather than standard of living.

There are true idealists and sincere revolutionaries championing change in America and they may marshal the masses behind them but more than likely most of the troops will flee the ranks for anyone waving a buck in front of them.

Unfortunately we don't need a revolution as much as we need a serious depression. Only then will Americans come to realize that their survival is based on their relationship with their fellow man rather than the the money they currently worship.

Without these relationships there is no true grassroots to form the organizations and communities which are capable of overturning the status quo.

Without the depression in the thirties would there ever have been a new deal?

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» RE: evolutionaries or whiners? Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Why go on about the money? Posted by: Sum Won
Blackwater
Posted by: Collielady on Feb 22, 2008 10:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I enjoyed this piece and agree with the concept.

One question: How will we stage a revolution when Blackwater rolls into town?

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"Revolution" of the Clods
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Feb 22, 2008 10:52 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This wisdom from a strategic foresight analyst quoting soothsayer James Davies. Back In the day they called those that produced such groundless babble fortunetellers.

"Revolution becomes necessary when the ruling classes fail in their duty to lead."

The "ruling classes" have never failed in their duty to lead more than their own blood money interests.

"And, in the teeth of this restless drift toward inevitable change, America has been governed by a bunch of conservative dinosaurs who can't even bring themselves to acknowledge that the 20th century is over."

More junk logic and hokum for the rubes.

The dems and republicans play good cop / bad cop where both are owned lock, stock and barrel down to smarmy smiles and Big Oil handshakes. And the latest MSM carny barkers from DC are neo-conservatives that were never "neo" (new) or "conservative". There's also zero conservative about the GOP and "progressives" are just as sold out to the so-called ruling class as their partners in crime.

Obama and Hillary are corporate MSM symbols for it all. Mister "change" and Mz “Slick Willie” who both mortgaged their souls a thousand times over to AIPAC, Goldman Sachs, etc, etc, that are in turn tools of idle fiat parasites who run the private "Federal Reserve" Corp piggy bank that was never federal, with minus zero for reserves.

Truth is, the sheep don’t know their shepherd is a butcher wolf and most that do don’t care. Is it any wonder, Americans are despised the world over?

So, for the latest ruling class distraction – we get a black man and lady that vie for puppet in chief of a corporate crime genocide nation. Better than dancing bears on American Idol! Our latest sellout jesters at a bloody circus maximus far worse than any theatre of the absurd.

The only major revolution that wasn’t bought and betrayed in its own time was the American Revolution fought against corporate oligarchs.

If Martin Luther King or Thomas Jefferson could see their dreams thus perverted, they would never stop throwing up.

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One thing is certain..
Posted by: bryangalt on Feb 23, 2008 2:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One thing is certain, America has reached a crossroads and whether or not a revolution will hurt or not, it will come to it at some point if the "haves" do not change their way of thinking. Frankly, I am appalled and ashamed at the way these people have squandered the gift given to them and to us all by the founders of this country: freedom and the pursuit of happiness.

I feel that the government, especially under the inept Bush Administration, has practically kicked the door open to start a revolution in this country.

Thomas Jefferson said it best when he said if the government isn't working for you, its time for a new one...

Is the government working for you? I don't think so...

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Incompetence is the long-term key
Posted by: Ralpho on Feb 23, 2008 9:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even in pre-Revolutionary France, incompetence turned out to be a more powerful motivator of revolution than injustice or brutality.

Middle-class people will endure even the coldest tyranny as long as they feel certain it won't be directed at them, but if they suddenly can't fill their gas tanks, Rrrrrevolution of some kind becomes a sure thing.

It's common sense. People take the reins one fine morning when no one else shows up who is remotely capable of doing the job.

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Amen, hallelujah, where are my pitchforks and torches.
Posted by: thekidde on Feb 23, 2008 9:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is time for the few to lead the many back to the Constitution.

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I've been waiting for ya'll
Posted by: FAITHCARR on Feb 23, 2008 10:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've lost so much in the last 7 years, I've got nothing left to lose but my life. Which is failing anyway.

Sign me up!

NSA you know where to find me already.

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» RE: I've been waiting for ya'll Posted by: FAITHCARR
american revolution?
Posted by: intercept on Feb 23, 2008 11:25 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
so why is the author citing/encouraging revolutionary tactics from canada?
afraid of a little blood?

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» RE: american revolution? Posted by: Kuressaare
SFCA
Posted by: SFCA on Feb 23, 2008 12:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Idealism is always a nice concept but in the real world only realism is realistic. Although this person has given this topic considerable thought,it appears to be merely a short sighted idealist point of view cloaked in a rationale of someone who probably really cares about people and the world condition but doesn't really grasp the entire situation and is frustrated that all problems don't have simple easy solutions. Mr. Obama is a Great Talker but what has he really said, what is really saying, what will he really do?

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Has any liberal here but myself, read the NeoCon handbook,
Posted by: jvaljon1 on Feb 23, 2008 2:02 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Project for a New American Century? (aka PNAC)?

I did, back in 1980. I fell across it in a Modern Sociology class. Of course, every CON knows the gist of it, and the elites--George Bush's BASE--probably run around quoting key points from it during their conventions.

I could tell you the salient points to this Anti-American Manifesto, but I hope that--beginning with Ms Johnson--everyone here who reads this letter goes and downloads a copy--just keyword PNAC, then go to the direct download. I was a lonely voice in the 80s--the era of Ronnie Dearest--screaming that our government was under attack, and of course I was told--by sneering CON and dismissive liberal alike--to get me to the booby hatch, which I clearly needed.

Our government is under what was almost--and may still be--a direct attack by people whose target is the overthrow of America as a Constitutional Republic, and who were chartered as an innocuous-sounding group: American Enterprise Institute--back in 1948! The height of the Liberal/Truman era, somehow spawned this group of anti-American, anti-Liberal, neoCON elites bound to the overthrow of our government--all the while we were focused on "The Red Menace!"--a stalking horse if ever there was one, for the true Red Menace which briefly overtook our country in the year 2000.

The greatest defenders of our Constitutional Republic have always been Liberals--so Liberalism was the main NeoCON target. I want nothing else now but to see Democrats kick the weasel-word "progressive" out of their discourse, and replace it with the proud "Liberal" label, applied to ourselves. I was never a progressive--I was and am always a proud Liberal. Liberal means A Member Of A FREEDOM-LOVING Nation. No wonder the Cons hate the defenders of Liberty--Liberals--and are seeking to make our country over in their hateful fascist image. Hitler's motto was: Kuche, Kinder, Kirche: roughly translated, Kitchen, Children and Church. Today's Evangelical natalistic attitudes, echoes Hitler's motto perfectly. These people aren't going away, folks. We're always going to have to watch out for them. Right now--

Our freedoms are under assault by Bush. Why does this surprise anyone? As the vanguard leader of a movement whose avowed purpose was to topple our government from within--why shouldn't Bush have, in what he thought was his ultimate moment of triumph over our Laws--said: "What's the Constitution? Just a goddam piece of paper!" (When it was suggested to him that waterboarding and ignoring FISA may be considered unconstitutional).

This was way more than just a different view of America. These people HATE the prosperous middle-class America that they've tried so hard to destroy. Thus, instead of leaving us be, and starting their own Nazi Republic in East Bumfuck, Liberia--or wherever--they sought to overturn our government. They made Liberal a dirty word--(but only because we let them!) and they have brought ruin onto all our institutions. They almost succeeded.

Read PNAC to see the NeoCON perfidy in all its glory. The people who subscribe to this screed are traitors to America, every bit as much as was Benedict Arnold. America was only ever built of two things: Liberalism (FREEDOM) and the rule of law. "Duh Terr'rists" (as der Leider so charmingly calls them) were here, under our noses, all along. They were--and still are, some of them--our next-door neighbors.

That this thirty-year attempted overthrow of our government has failed, isn't due to our vigilance--we had none at all, folks--as much as it was due to NeoCON overreaching, and seriously overestimating just how much shit the American people are, ultimately, willing to take from their leaders. But that doesn't mean that they won't try to overthrow America again, someday. It will then be up to US--newly and permanently vigilant--to stop their next attempt.

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Blame the conservatives, praise the libs
Posted by: Amesboy on Feb 23, 2008 10:34 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How typical of this article to blame the conservatives and praise the progressive-liberals for all the boo-hooing wrongs in our society. Will people like Sara Robinson ever learn the wisdom of Fisher Ames?

"Democracy, in its best state, is but the politics of Bedlam; while kept chained, its thoughts are frantic, but when it breaks loose, it kills the keeper, fires the building, and perishes."

Conservatives preserve the republic to keep it from falling into the trap of letting the people go wild against something that actually works for them, not against them. Unfortunately, the anti-rational lazy radicals can think up creative dead-ends to encourage "revolution" to change everything for the people, but it only benefit them to move into power and start acting like little tyrants in the name of the revolution and "democratic" spirit.

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Revolution, rEvolution, Revolve around and around. Spinning for utopia!
Posted by: common intelligence on Feb 23, 2008 10:42 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just as you are making a stand in words here and so many of us have and still do, writting letters, using legal methods and ways to make corrections in a corrupt system is a meaningless method.

The method of internet whining doesn't work either. The fact is all the peaceful legal approaches have been trumped by Bush and his appointed judicial cronies.

The whole of these types have a mental mind set of self appointment omnipotentcy. This psycho tribe of dominating power mongers hold all the cards. Any violent or otherwise efforts to thouwart their drive in their envisioned future of planet earth and humanity will be over powered by there controling factions.

It's not that we have failed, because we have never had any hand in the first place.

Humanities destiny has gone extinct (almost) before. And it will happen again. Over 5,000 years ago masssive human populations covered vast spanses of earth in the southern and western hemispheres. All but gone. Humanity kills itself off by it's obsessive habitual nature that continues living and regulating life in ways that literally destroy it's own habitat. Diseases rise up and wipe us out because we can not control ourselves from our self destuctive habits of over indulgence.

So because we continue in this way, don't take it personally that we can't change the lack of ability to control our self governance.

Do you really think borders, walls, of brick and mortor, asphalt, money, education, masssive trnasportation of goods around the globe, medicine, religion, cars, dams, trivial use of high technology, satelites, space shuttles, and such can create utopia?

It's all to the contrary I'm affraid.
Sit back and watch High Definition TV of the jerry spinger show. It's all more that I want to see.!

If everything was perfect today what would it look like?
VIsualize the world you would like in you mind, if you can.

Peace? If you had peace, what would you do with it?

Visualize Bush in jail!

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What article were most reading?
Posted by: outsideagitator on Feb 24, 2008 12:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I very much enjoyed this article it was well written and I believe quite timely given the situation we find ourselves in.

I was disappointed however in most of the comments. Too many seemed to think that the author was calling for and armed uprising, a revolutionary overthrow of the government.

Maybe folks are having late winter blues and its affecting their brains, but I have seldom seen such poor quality comments from Alternet folks.

And about revolution----well regardless of whether or not folks favor revolution or reject it absolutely it will probably happen if we cannot reverse the trend towards impovrishing the majority of American citizens and handing over the cash to the ruling class.

If it happens it will have disastrous consequences, not only for our own country but the entire world. I am too old to make much of a difference should I still be alive when such a calamity occurs, but I know which side I will surely be on. It is not the side of the religious zealots, the racists and the neo-con wingnuts.

Joseph

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Conservatives are not the only ones.
Posted by: SamFox on Feb 24, 2008 1:21 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lib Dems are in there as well. Who was it that started the tax & spend nanny state? What party was George Wallace & WR 'Reefer Madness' Hurst in? Who ushered in the income tax amendment in 1913? Who started the raiding of social security?

" From: Bill Rogoski
Subject: Why "seniors" get cranky

If you didn't know, it's easy to check. Show your kids a history lesson on what the truth is.

Social Security

Franklin Roosevelt, a Democrat, introduced the Social Security (FICA) Program. He promised:

That participation in the Program would be
completely voluntary, participants would only have to pay 1% of the first $1,400 of their annual incomes into the Program; the money the participants elected to put into the program would be deductible from their income for tax purposes each year,

Money the participants put into the Independent "Trust Fund" rather than the General operating fund would only be used to fund the Social Security Retirement Program, no other Gov. program.

Annuity payments to the retirees
would never be taxed as income.

Since many have paid into FICA for years and are now receiving a Social Security check every month & then finding that we are getting taxed on 85% of the money paid to the Federal government to "put away" -- you may be interested in the following:

Q: Which Political Party took Social Security from the Independent "Trust Fund" & put it into the General fund so Congress could spend it?

A: Lyndon Johnson & the democratically
Controlled House and Senate.

Q. Which party eliminated the income tax deduction for Social Security (FICA) withholding?

A: The Democratic Party.

Q: Which Political Party started taxing Social
Security annuities?

A: The Democratic Party. VP Al Gore cast the "tie-breaking" vote as Senate President.

Q: Which Political Party decided to start giving Annuity payments to immigrants?

MY FAVORITE:

A: Jimmy Carter & the Democratic Party. Immigrants moved into this country. At age 65, began to receive Social Security payments! The Democratic Party gave them these payments though they never paid a dime into it!

After violating the original contract (FICA), the Dems tell you Republicans want to take your Social Security away!

The worst? Uninformed citizens believe it! (Now they don't want most retirees to share in the rebates to help the economy!)

CONGRESS GIVES THEMSELVES 100% RETIREMENT
FOR ONLY SERVING ONE TERM!!! "

I'm no fan of either party. They are both corporate fascist.

SamFox

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What if
Posted by: compu on Feb 24, 2008 3:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some may say,its about personalities,that say,
one wonders,what if the jews,social democrats
or the rest of others dissenters in Germany
had succesfuly cornered the entire leadership
of the fascist regime?
They try in 1944 but by that time the damage
was done already.
A friend of mine before his death told me
if this comes to blows,get the noise machine
first.

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Revolution, weather and economic collapse
Posted by: blondesprite on Feb 24, 2008 5:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
During and after Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, we caught a gliimpse of what happens to people and economies when there is no electricity, no phone service, no prozac, no diabetic supplies, no milk for babies, no Internet, lttle money and little food.
While the wind was howling, and the floods were creeping into homes and businesses,there were no party affiliation discussions and no ministers standing in the filthy ditches offering food, clothing, shelter, love and their seat on the evacuation route.
There were only friends,families and total strangers going about (their individual and mutual knitting)the business of helping or savaging one another.
Your (elected) County Commissioners and Regional Planning Commissions hold and weild the keys, as it were, to the kingdom(s).
Govenors, Mayors, City Council Members and City Managers tend to Run With Scissors (keep offering tax cuts and tax abatements to get elected)while (and with the remaining limited resources) County Commissioners and Regional Planning Commissions attempt to cut and paste it all back together.
When the real feces hits an oscillating mechanism, look to your County Commissioners for true change and new directions.
Get local folks, get elected to your own local School Boards, run for County Commissioner, and get forward thinking individuals appointed to your Regional Planning Commissions.
If you want a revolution, this is where you must get off your backsides and start.
Alternet, TomPaine, Commondreams and other progressive web sites and blogs can only offer you insight,hindsight and inspiration. The rest is up to us. Seize the day!

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etresoi
Posted by: etresoi on Feb 24, 2008 9:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
American opposition movements have always focused on the notion of organization. It has always been their goal to organize the people. Their hope has been to wield the collective power of the disaffected, downtrodden, and exploited as a single unit against the concentrated power of the ruling class. While their hope has been noble, their methods have been foolish. Organized resistance has many drawbacks. These drawbacks have seldom been discussed by the opposition. I believe that the only effective resistance is a completely disorganized, decentralized, and leaderless opposition. There is virtue in disorganized resistance.

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» RE: etresoi Posted by: blondesprite
Taking sides gets us no where
Posted by: RubberEagle on Feb 25, 2008 4:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you are truely tired of being hearded like cattle by your public servants then put away your party prejudices and join your local malitia. Though we are all already militia, as we can be called to duty at any time, it is more effective to actually get yourself some training (well regulated). Once you join you can properly discuss your grievences with other patriots. As far as the (We have to have militarty involved) comments, who do you think our military is comprised of? This isn't like the civil war. Do you seriously think our boys are going to kill their own? It may start out that way until they realize it's not a small uprising, but an entire nation in revolt. Anyhow, if you truely want to do more than pay lip service, support your local militia. There is a reason the second amendment was put in plcae you know? http://www.awrm.org is a good start to find out what the duty of every citizen of this nation is, but I urge you to become an active member of your local above all. You can't be properly trained by sitting at your PC complaining.

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» RE: Taking sides gets us no where Posted by: rdemocracy@comcast.net
The Clinton's have(PPTSD) Political Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Posted by: rdemocracy@comcast.net on Feb 25, 2008 6:30 PM   
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I agree with everything that is being said, we are in the mix of a perfect storm, but it is not one that has not been focast;hence, the beauty of a working democracy, the pendulum usually swings in the opposite direction before we are crushed under the tremendous weight of oppression and disenfranchisement. I donot believe that Obama offers any particular magic, and I like him, I just believe that he is doing at this moment in time, what a working Democracy demands that its inhabits do, self examination and self correction. Obama is right for this time, we need a person whose personal politics are such that they allow us to share in the outcome of our Democracy. Hillary's take no prisoners, winner takes all brand of self and political governance is out of sync with who we are and what we need at this moment in history. Hillary does have the experience, but it is exactly her experience that has blinded her. Hillary no longer has the insight or judgment that is needed to protect our Democracy, she is fractured and damaged. Hillary has Political Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, she is in a hyper vigilant state, she is always on the attack. Unfortunately, Mr. Clinton, who I believe was a great President and who I believe is truly a great American is equally and as easily seduced by power and privilage, and together all that the Clinton's can do is tarnish their legacy and further damage our Democracy. The Clinton's need to concede before they ruin all of the good will that history has afforded them, they need to take some time off to become people again. No one can ever say that they are not great politicians, but I am not sure that that is such a good thing.

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scenarios that might turn things violent - not there yet
Posted by: 1234 on Feb 25, 2008 7:46 PM   
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I agree with the earlier comment that if these elections are fucked with in a major way that we will start seeing mass protest and people in the streets (though I don't think they will be taking up arms). Only if they are ruthlessly crushed through brutal use of force (mass killings), would this resistance turn violent.

If Bush were to try to change the rules so that he could remain in power and neither Congress, the Supreme Court, or massive peaceful protests were able to stop him, people might start getting violent.

Luckily, I don't think either of these situations will happen. Unluckily, there will probably be just enough reform or democracy to prevent revolution, but not enough to bring substantial change.

That's why we need to keep organizing and raising consciousness. We're not there yet, but we're getting closer.

*"there" meaning a non-violent revolution, which I favor

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What conservatives?
Posted by: Livemike on Feb 25, 2008 9:17 PM   
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This article keeps talking about how conservative leaders have failed. What conservative leaders? Name one member of the Bush administration who doesn't support massive increases in welfare, being the world's policeman, increased powers over the financial sector, gun control (although they've stopped pushing it now it's obvious it doesn't work), finding excuses for war, fiat money, and in general everything that FDR stood for?

Part of the reason that there might be a revolution is that the lower classes are accustomed to being allowed to loot the treasury. Once this becomes impossible (becaues the rich have cleaned out the last of it) there will be revolution. Comparative racial and economic equality won't help, it just means there are more people who think they should get more.

The fact is that the rich aren't the ones that demanded the worst of "conservative" policy. Was it the rich who demanded that home loan standards be dropped? No it was the poor. Was it the rich who wanted social security? Not particularly. Was it the rich who demanded that the government try to fix everyone's problems even though it couldn't afford to fix it's own?

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WHAT CONSERVATIVES ???
Posted by: Mark W. on Feb 25, 2008 10:22 PM   
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Since when is a Neocon a conservative? The Republicans and Democrats preach the same sermon. The only Conservative who ran for President in the last 35 years is Ron Paul. If we would abide by our Constitution, our problems would be solved. However, the Oligarchy running our country avoid it like the plague. The Constitution is like Kryptonite to our politicians, Democrat and Republican alike.
When a man like Ron Paul states the Federal Reserve and IRS is Illegal and Unconstitutional on National T.V., no one challenges his statement. However, the owners of our country, (and it's not our citizens), just turn the camera the other way. No media exposure=No votes. The Federal Reserve Bankers through the Media choose our Presidents through branding = name recognition = brainwashing. And if the Media doesn't quite complete the mission, the votes get hacked.
McCain, Obama, Huckabee, nor Clinton will talk about the Evil, Corrupt Special Interest ruining our country because they are all Political Puppets whom obey the Oligarchy. That is why they get Media attention. It doesn't matter which one of those candidates win, the country will get whatever the President is told to give us, or take away from us, by their Puppet Masters.
Ron Paul will give us the only Real Change, the others just say what the country wants to hear to get elected. If anyone doesn't understand what is truely controlling our country, "Google" the movie "America: Freedom to Fascism" it can be watched free online (very informative). Then if you believe Al-Qaeda is going to get us, watch the video from the BBC @ http: //polidics. com/ cia/ top-ranking- cia- operatives- admit- al-qaeda -is-a-complete -fabrication. html this is an eye opener.
Help educate America of the Monsters destroying our country, it's our only chance for change.

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Before we all rush off to the barricades- a reminder of the human cost of revolution
Posted by: Woodpecker on Feb 26, 2008 3:20 AM   
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Every time I read about somebody advocating a violent revolution in America(or any other Western society), I always wonder if he or she realizes what that entails in actuality. More to the point- I wonder if that person has ever read the account of a Russian emigre statistician, I. I. Kurganov who has estimated that between 1917 and 1959(cited in the second volume of Solzhenitsyn's "Gulag Archipelago"), 66 million men, women and children died in the course of a victorious revolution( I am inclined to factor out the casualties of WWII from this sum as well as to suspect a degree of political partiality or bias, but I doubt even so that he has overly exaggerated the sheer human cost of "The Great Social Experiment" so beloved by Western liberals and leftists.
I will undoubtedly be told that "you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs" by some armchair revolutionary who has never lived through "The Reign Of Terror", Lenin's "Red Terror" Stalin's brutal collectivization ,show trials and mass purges of the 1930s, Mao's "Great Leap Forward" or Pol Pot's "Year Zero", but facts to quote Stalin are stubborn things!
Think about it!

Terry

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I have never seen the idea broached before, but...
Posted by: GarrisonPayneLeonard38H on Feb 26, 2008 6:33 PM   
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Given the depth and breadth of the Con ChickenHawk gene pool, why is it not possible -- even predictable -- that there is a Revolutionary ChickenHawk corollary?

Unfortunately, strong opinions are not forbidden to those of weak experience. I have seen the bloodthirsty posturing of people whose only knowledge of violence comes through movies, TV, and videogames. Whether that or something different is the genesis, I suspect that ChickenHawk proponents of violence can arise in any movement.

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Jaw-dropper
Posted by: Frdmftr on Feb 26, 2008 7:26 PM   
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As a skeptical, mostly rational, libertarian-leaning constitutional scholar, I thought I'd just about seen everything the wild-eyed liberals and progressives could throw at their air-headed audiences to get support in performing end-runs around the traditional values (read "fundamental rights") this nation was founded to protect, but Sara's article was a jaw-dropper. NOT, mind you, because I disagreed with her assessment of our current administration as "incompetent" (and worse), but because SHE'S BLAMING CONSERVATIVES FOR IT!

I blame liberals and progressives for it! And I blame what she calls "conservatives" for being led around by the nose by Marxists in conservative clothing! Here's a newsflash: The Trilateral Commission has infiltrated the highest levels of our government, and has virtually taken our Constitution out of the equation. Congress no longer has oversight over trade agreements; Congress no longer declares war; Congress has no oversight over the proposed North American Community that intends to combine Canada, the U.S. and Mexico into a European Union clone; etc., etc -- and TC members are Socialists and Communists. Well, actually they don't care a whit about what political ideology is in vogue as long as they are in power; it's just that socialism and communism (socialism at the point of a gun) is an easy sell to liberals and progressives who don't understand the founding principles of our country. They do everything by the backdoor, so you and I can't complain until it is already a fait accompli.

I admit to being amazed by Sara's perception of the major problems facing our nation; I was amazed because I found so little in that perception to disagree with. But to blame conservatives for it? What a crock!

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Are you ready to shoot?
Posted by: manderson on Feb 27, 2008 12:19 AM   
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One thing I've noticed about most folk who classify themselves as "liberal" or "progressive" is that they talk a lot about revolution, but are afraid to face the necessary violence of the process. What will you do when you've got a squad of hopped-up Blackwater wogs or Marines chasing you? Can you kill to save yourselves?

And then, AFTER the revolution, the real work starts, and the people who starred in the rabble rousing and fighting fade away, and leave the cleanup and organization of the new situation to YOU. No glory, just routine and hard work persuading people who had it OK in the last order that YOUR ideas are better.

Not to mention that you'll have less oil to do it with...

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Thoughts?
Posted by: TimeToComment on Feb 28, 2008 12:37 AM   
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I'm not lumping all commenters into the same lot, but I have to say something...America could be a better place if we who so devotedly follow a political website would apply our supposed passion for the topic elsewhere. Perhaps, let's say, in working for whichever cause we think best during this election cycle. Armchair political activism is as bad as doing nothing at all. I've been guilty of it myself at times. I'm just saying. 305 comments to this article, and how many calls and letters to senators, congressmen or other officials? How many hours contributed to something besides complaining to people of like mind? I'm willing to bet that I could count those things on two hands. Pathetic.

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» RE: Thoughts? Posted by: smadaj
Of Particularly Pre-Revolutionary Historical Significance Here...
Posted by: Nicole Hemsoth on Feb 28, 2008 10:07 PM   
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Impending bloody revolution? Methinks not. At least not yet…

What is, perhaps, the most fascinating point this article makes is not necessarily that the recent political fervor should be attributed to a general unconscious consensus or awakening rather than to a particular candidate but more importantly, that we as a nation might have just moved forward. For far too many years political decision-making among the general public has been far too invested in the “likeability” factor. This mysterious factor generally is comprised of anything from appearances to religious or social causes that have little place in politics. What it seems like now, however, is that this factor of being likeable is garnering less votes and becoming less important as voters of all persuasions begin to understand the gravity of the dire political, social, international and diplomatic crises that loom before us and have just have occurred under the “leadership” of W. This is a new age we are entering and one must be optimistic and give Americans the benefit of the doubt. We are overcoming the tendency to, in that distinctly American tradition, vote based on like rather than substance.

Before we jump to conclusions based on world revolutionary history that has little in common with some of the century-specific technological, communications-based, and other more global and historically less insular situations let’s see how this paradigm shift pans out, why don’t we?

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Umm...no, we're not on the road to revolution
Posted by: rickiey on Feb 29, 2008 8:26 AM   
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The simple fact of the matter, is that American's in general, have to cushy a lifestyle for a revolution.

The lower class in the US has a better life than the upper class in countries that have revolutions.

Only when a majority of the people in the US get hungry enough, could there possibly be a revolution.

Are you all willing to put down your computers and form a revolutionary front and die? No?Didn't think so.

And thats why there won't be a revolution.

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Wish I had the time
Posted by: Wake up! on Feb 29, 2008 9:26 AM   
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I wish I had the time to go through and pick apart this entire article... but I don't. Here are just a few of the more glaring mistakes:
In section one, the article says that American middle class workers are suffering from a "mass exodus of manufacturing jobs." What it doesn't say, is why corporations have gone overseas.
Corporate tax in America is the second highest in the world. American tax policy is driving jobs out of the country. If america wants to bring jobs back it needs to take Bush's tax cuts even further and lower corporate taxes as well. Hillary Clinton's plan of "siezing profits" from large corporations will only work to drive more jobs out of the US.
The article also suggested that the middle class is suffering "from a tax load far heavier than that of the richest 2 percent." The truth is that the wealthiest 5% in America pay over 50% of the total income tax. The bottom 50% of americans pay just 4% of income taxes.
Remember, the more the government gives you, the less freedom you have.

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Mary
Posted by: marysia on Feb 29, 2008 12:31 PM   
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This is an extremely interesting read. I checked its premise by applying the steps to the only revolution I've ever witnessed: the one where Solidarity in Poland forced the system to change. And guess what? All the conditions were there! Unfortunately, the system they got was not the one they thought they wanted, the same conditions have reappeared and Poland is once again ripe for another revolution.

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New type of revolution
Posted by: gdsnide on Feb 29, 2008 8:05 PM   
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Folks,
When I hear people speaking of Obama winning it makes me sad as the Clintons are to powerful for him to have a chance. Sure, he took so many states in a row but it's all "smoke & mirrors" I believe what will happen in America is a mass civil disobedience to the Government,State & Federal,utter lack of respect for the Police of our country not an all out bloody kill,kill,kill type of revolution.
The working men & Women of the US are the back bone of the US & the one's who's Taxes finance all our Governments intrusions into other Countries
Did U know we have troops on what is considered "Holy Land" by the people in the Middle East & that we have troops in 150 different countries?
We still have troops in Korea & that "Police Action" ended in 1953? Why do we still have them there?
Our Armed Forces are stretched so thin that this would be a good oppurtunity for China or Russia to make a move on the US.
Sure we have all sorts of Nuclear bombs but so do they
As for a bloody revolution in the US this may be possible with all the Militia Groups that are around & the mass numbers in gangs that are White,Black & Latinos
One thing the Government doesn't want is to see a unity in the races because they keep us fighting & bickering like Iraq & keep us divided so there is no unity but Social unrest which is no threat to the big money people who run the US
One thing to ask ones self is "How does all these Drugs get into the US if the Government is doing such a good job with their "War on Drugs?"
Why is the Federal government continuing to arrest people in States where Medicial Marijuana has been passed?
I would guess that the Drug Companies ( Which has 5 Lobbists for each Senator) are padding a lot of pockets in Washington to keep it illegal while the sick have to pay the highest prices around for the Medicine they are prescribed.
The US has lost it's way because we have had money craving ego manics in power to long.
So, in closing ,I ask, will this election make any diffence?
My answer would be NO because no matter who wins as it has been said many times "If you're not a crook when U go to Washington U soon will be"
Because there is so much money available to the Politicans from different Lobbists to keep the publics money flowing their way.
A disgruntled Viet Nam Vet

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revolution
Posted by: smadaj on Mar 1, 2008 1:40 PM   
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My friend has a tee-shirt that reads, "Stop Bitching and Start a Revolution."
A good idea - but really, is it? The Bush Regime, with the help of Congress, has changed so many of the rules, altered the playing field, recreated the judicial branch, and put in place a HUGE mercenary army (read Blackwater, KBR,etc.) and has also - in January of 2006 - hired Halliburton to build a huge network of domestic secret prisons - prisons within the continental U.S., all of which are designed to hold up to five thousand prisoners each for an indefinite period of time and which are not run by our prison system but by a secret arm of Homeland Security, that an armed revolutionary uprising could most likely be easily quelled. Further, the laws have been changed so that the president can declare any citizen and "enemy combatant" - for no reason - and that immediately strips him/her of his/her rights to habeas corpus, allows him/her to be tortured and then killed. End of discussion. A revolution could only work if the masses were armed and could out-maneuver the huge militia that this administration has created. This government, representing the wealthiest and most powerful 1-2% are also the ones with the spy equipment, via phones, internet and satellite, and the bulk of the weaponry. The only group I can imagine who would lay their lives on the line are the hundreds of thousands of kids from junior high school through collage age who are thoroughly disgusted with our nations illegal and immoral activities, who have a feeling of hopelessness and have immersed themselves in the Columbine-type murders (siding with the kids who had the guns). These kids watch "Grace and Will" and all sorts of other yuppie versions of a financially comfortable life in America - complete with canned laugh tracks - and they see that their own lives and the lives of their parents and neighbors are nothing like what Hollywood portrays as "normal" in America. Their hopelessness is real, and they see no way to get anywhere near the pie, let alone enjoy a piece of it. The more savvy of them are aware of how destructive the U.S. has been overseas, and that we collectively have the blood of millions upon millions of innocent third world citizens on our hands. Could this country embark upon a successful revolution? Hard to know. The vastness of the country itself seems to create an environment that could prolong a revolution far beyond the length of past revolutionary changes. Further, if anyone is paying attention to the worst case scenarios of the effects of global warming - we could all be killing each other for basic resources within three decades, and the entire planet, if we haven't created a nuclear holocaust and annihilated the better part of the human race by then, could easily have broken down in thirty years to small bands of survival-based humans and all higher levels of living will be gone as those who have survived fight over fresh water, food and basic shelter....

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revolution and counter revolution.
Posted by: whealeydj on Mar 1, 2008 3:04 PM   
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30 years ago I read Crane Brinton, Anatomy of Revolution that compared French, American and Russian Revolutions. Revolution followed by counter revolution. Tyranny of Louis replaced by tyranny of Napoleon; monarchial despotism followed by expansionist military nationalistic despotism.
Czar replaced by Stalin after 10 years. The American revolution was different because the King and colonial governors were replaced by the Constitution which set up a Republic which benefited the elite who participated in the revolution. I think the neo-conservatives (Republicans) and neo-liberals (Democrats) were the counter-revolution to the sixties anti-war revolutionaries. in 1970 after Kent State and Cambodian bombing, there were high hopes for revolution,but the truth was the counter revolution began with Nixon and Wallace greatly out-polling Humphrey. Carter was an anamoly. Reagan the Bushes were all conservatives and Bill Clinton was a conservative posing as a liberal (neo-liberal)
In 2008 I see some hope in Obama, but given the conservative and militarist nature of American electorate, I think McCain is likely to win. The possibility of revolution is there if the masses feel too squeezed by oil and food prices going up and wages going down but too many Americans are sated with sports and entertainment (TV and computers) to consider revolution. As many have pointed out, revolution is bloody so now may be the time to obtain a gun for some self protection, but just don't use it against a family member.

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We The People, ..... A Call For Change.
Posted by: premarachel on Mar 12, 2008 11:23 AM   
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Our government is a failure. It is failing utterly to invest our wealth in sustainable policies that should increasingly benefit all of us. We are failing as a neighbor to the rest of the world, choosing to spread weapons and violent policies like a cancer. For our own sake and the sake of the world we need radical, surgical change. We are intolerable to ourselves and to the world.

The authority of government lies entirely and irrevocably within the Body of The Whole, "We The People". It is "We the People", the Sovereign Citizens, who must, through our efforts and responsibilities, secure this Charter of Liberty, Freedom and for Responsible Government for All Future Generations.

"The last hope of human liberty in this world rests on us. . . . If we move in mass, be it ever so circuitously, we shall attain our object; but if we break into squads, every one pursuing the path he thinks most direct, we become an easy conquest to those who can now barely hold us in check. I repeat again, that we ought not to schismatize on either men or measures. Principles alone can justify that. If we find our government in all its branches rushing headlong, like our predecessors, into the arms of monarchy, if we find them violating our dearest rights, the trial by jury, the freedom of the press, the freedom of opinion, civil or religious, or opening on our peace of mind or personal safety the sluices of terrorism, if we see them raising standing armies, when the absence of all other danger points to these as the sole objects on which they are to be employed, then indeed let us withdraw and call the nation to its tents. But while our functionaries are wise, and honest, and vigilant, let us move compactly under their guidance, and we have nothing to fear. Things may here and there go a little wrong. It is not in their power to prevent it. But all will be right in the end, though not perhaps by the shortest means." -- Thomas Jefferson to Colonel Wm. Duane, 1811

If ever there was a need it is now. It is a sad reflection of the state of our government that the words of Dwight Eisenhower “Beware the military industrial complex......” now stand foremost in our minds when we think about the cause of the ills of our nation. If we add to “the military industrial complex” the “public corporate bearocracy complex” we can see how very far out of tilt we have come. Our government rather than being a benevolent overseer has become a financial, educational and medical siphon from the people it governs. "Whenever there is an interest and power to do wrong," wrote Madison to Jefferson in 1788, "wrong will generally be done, and not less readily by a powerful and interested party than by a powerful and interested prince."

If we are to make change in the current conditions of our nation, we need a focal point that over rides the current failure of presidential elections to bring real, healthy, fair and nationally sustainable changes to our nation. I believe we need to give up laying in bed debating our different ills, and collectively walk to the doctor to demand a real medicine for our ills, not the current snake oil we are being given.

Locally, we can ask our city officials to express our desire for rapid change in our governmental system and priorities, to our state officials, drawing up such documentation as to be effective for our state officials to effectively present themselves before Congress and regardless of the outcome of presidential elections, turn the welfare of our nation around to a more sustainable, healthy and prosperous path for all.

I would suggest that anyone who seriously contemplates what they can do/contribute for real change , goes to http://www.alternet.org/democracy/77498/?page=entire and reads a powerful and extremely lucid article written by Sara Robinson called “When Change Is Not Enough: Seven Steps To Revolution”

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Esterme
Posted by: estherme on Mar 20, 2008 6:51 PM   
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Just read the article on "Seven Steps to Revolution." We needed a revolution for many years, but it will not happen because Americans won't get involved. Most still have their heads buried in "American Idol," puff news and entertainment, to get involved. Then there is the fact that Bush & the elite have passed new laws- Patriot Act, Marshal Law and all the rest where you can be shot down, squash any form of descent and there will be no United States to bail us out!
Now the Supreme Court is working on banning guns for Americans. The Constitution is in shreds and the "idiots"of both parties will continue to vote in the same crooks over and over again.
The government is totally owned by big corporations and the elite who deny everything that helps out the worker, middle class, poor and elderly. Many Americans have lost their compassion for the suffering of other Americans ( poor, elderly, working poor). They don't care if these people have anything as long as they get theirs. They vote against their own best interest! But you just can't fix stupid!
You don't see any more "Marches on Washington!" Things have gotten so corrupt! Americans have not kept vigil on what has been going on. Ralph Nader is the only one talking about all the real shit that has been going on and he has been doing so for many years, but most don't listen.
Gov't bailed out greedy Wall Street and Americans will pay for it. They didn't bail out homeowners and Republicans will say "no, the hell with them as long as I get mine!"

There can be no change until the people get back their country, but it is hard to see how this can be done with all the above mentioned issues. See www.bigeye.com/elections.htm ("Elections are a Scam") and other Alternative News on the internet because TV and Newspapers are owned by the corporations and they can not report the real news. This is how a Fascist government works! When the crash (depression) hits Bush and Republicans will say "everything is A- okay!"
Remember when GW Bush #1 said "We need a world order government!" Congress applauded him, well he let the cat out of the bag. That is what the plans have been for many years. Search the internet on the One World Order and see their plans and how much of it is coming true or continue to keep your head in the sand and enjoy your "Deal or No Deal"

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