NEWS & POLITICS  
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Shocking: High School Grads Twice As Likely To Be Jobless Than College Grads – and Right-Wingers are Profiting From Their Pain

The economic meltdown has hit non-college grads much harder than the educated. And conservatives are very good at exploiting their anger and unease.
November 28, 2009  |  
 
 
 
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You know how bad the economy is, right? Maybe your 401(k) has tanked. Perhaps you were out of work for a few months. You could have a mortgage under water. Or your health insurance has an impossibly high deductible. Yeah, we're all singing the blues.

I've gotten out my violin to play a mournful accompaniment to our collective angst.

Wait, what's that I hear in the distance? A dissonant, thundering chord someone just hammered on the piano -- a harsh interruption of my languid dirge. Now it repeats, getting louder and nearer.

It's the sound of rage, of people I don't know -- millions of them -- unable to make rent or feed their families.  Why don't I know them? They don't have college degrees, and nearly everybody I know does.

The truth is, brothers and sisters, however much we the degreed are suffering, we don't know the half of it. And unless we familiarize ourselves with the other half very, very soon, what was supposed to be a new progressive era could quickly give way to the rage of the Tea Party.

We all know that unemployment is high -- 10 percent nationwide, and higher than that in certain geographic pockets. (Michigan tops the states with more than 15 percent.) Economists tell us that when you factor in all the underemployed people, and those who have given up looking for work, the national employment picture is more like 17 percent who are either out of work or barely working. But chances are, if you're at all like me, those numbers tell you that something's terribly wrong, but your day-to-day life is more or less holding together.  Those who do not possess a college diploma are having a far more visceral experience of this recession.

Among college graduates, the unemployment rate for October was 4.7 percent, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (PDF). For people with some college or an Associate's degree, the rate is almost doubled, at 9 percent. Among high school graduates who never went to college, 11 percent are unemployed, while high-school drop-outs show a whopping 15.5 percent unemployed.

So, unless you know a lot of people who never graduated college, you really have no idea just how bad things are.

Maybe that's why the political establishment in Washington, D.C., was stunned last week when members of the Black Congressional Caucus came together in the House Financial Services Committee to halt a financial reform bill put together by committee Chairman Barney Frank, D-MA. While CBC members took issue with some specific provisions in the bill, the real intent of the caucus members' stalling was to protest the administration's lackluster response to the growing jobs crisis within their constituencies. (Among African Americans, the unemployment rate for October was 15.7 percent, according to BLS, compared to 9.5 percent for white people. According to a 2003 survey by the U.S. Census, 17 percent of blacks had college diplomas, compared to 27.2 percent of whites.)

A poll released last week by ABC News and the Washington Post found that 30 percent of Americans say that either they or someone in their household has lost a job in the past year, a finding the pollsters present as a new high. But, because it's an average, that figure tells only part of the story. Those losses are not evenly distributed across the economy; pollsters found that people living in households with income of less than $50,000 were twice as likely to have experienced a job loss by a member of their household than those with earnings above that threshold.


Adele M. Stan is AlterNet's Washington bureau chief.
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What Does Obama Have to Do with Progressives?
Posted by: mmckinl on Nov 28, 2009 12:50 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As far as I can tell Obama is moving further to the right with every step. Afghanistan escalation, talking about budget deficits, refusing to sign the land mine treaty, playing "Three Card Monty" with health care reform, more bases in Latin America, continuing to ignore Bernenke and Geithner's trillion dollar gifts to banksters ... and on and on.

Has the Alternet DC Bubble burst? Sure seems so as we now have a story about high school graduates and drop outs. The plight of the rust belt and those in agriculture is not new, it is just worse than ever.

Progressives had better get the word out that Obama's agenda is the antithesis of what a Progressive Agenda would look like. Progressives need seriously consider joining the Green Party, a real progressive party.

As far as I can tell Obama is a lost cause. It is not worth trying to revive a Democratic Party that always ends up being Republican Lite ... Progressives need to capture the imagination of the youth out there today. What the current bunch in Congress and the White House are leaving them is an inheritance of debt and destruction unparalleled in the generational politics of America.

Go Green ...

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What Does Obama Have to Do with Progressives?
Posted by: mmckinl on Nov 28, 2009 12:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As far as I can tell Obama is moving further to the right with every step. Afghanistan escalation, talking about budget deficits, refusing to sign the land mine treaty, playing "Three Card Monty" with health care reform, more bases in Latin America, continuing to ignore Bernenke and Geithner's trillion dollar gifts to banksters ... and on and on.

Has the Alternet DC Bubble burst? Sure seems so as we now have a story about high school graduates and drop outs. The plight of the rust belt and those in agriculture is not new, it is just worse than ever.

Progressives had better get the word out that Obama's agenda is the antithesis of what a Progressive Agenda would look like. Progressives need seriously consider joining the Green Party, a real progressive party.

As far as I can tell Obama is a lost cause. It is not worth trying to revive a Democratic Party that always ends up being Republican Lite ... Progressives need to capture the imagination of the youth out there today. What the current bunch in Congress and the White House are leaving them is an inheritance of debt and destruction unparalleled in the generational politics of America.

Go Green ...

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What Does Obama Have to Do With Progressives?
Posted by: mmckinl on Nov 28, 2009 12:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As far as I can tell Obama is moving further to the right with every step. Afghanistan escalation, talking about budget deficits, refusing to sign the land mine treaty, playing "Three Card Monty" with health care reform, more bases in Latin America, continuing to ignore Bernenke and Geithner's trillion dollar gifts to banksters ... and on and on.

Has the Alternet DC Bubble burst? Sure seems so as we now have a story about high school graduates and drop outs. The plight of the rust belt and those in agriculture is not new, it is just worse than ever.

Progressives had better get the word out that Obama's agenda is the antithesis of what a Progressive Agenda would look like. Progressives need seriously consider joining the Green Party, a real progressive party.

As far as I can tell Obama is a lost cause. It is not worth trying to revive a Democratic Party that always ends up being Republican Lite ... Progressives need to capture the imagination of the youth out there today. What the current bunch in Congress and the White House are leaving them is an inheritance of debt and destruction unparalleled in the generational politics of America.

Go Green ...

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» RE: Keep thinking that... Posted by: ETSpoon

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"Civil war'
Posted by: Richardsievert on Nov 28, 2009 6:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These hell bent leaders are squeezing our economy to force our children into war look at it threw the eye's of a master' And see the truth pure as filtered water, Threw a spout.
Will you wait to see "your children's make up in a box, Cold as ice dead. You father's of the fallen?
Mother's of the laden bearing children for Americas stolen war' Made from the darkest water's of hell' It's time for civil war'
These fuckers are so dark' One filter would be toast with just one life it's so disgusting' "It would never work again' After the poison thing it tried to filter threw it's man made plan.

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On the other hand, it's a good thing I put career and education ahead of marriage. :(
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Nov 28, 2009 6:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Both the faux "liberals" and conservatives are benefitting from their suffering. Until society puts quality education before privatizing education for money's sake, nothing will improve.

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Thank you!!!
Posted by: ETSpoon on Nov 28, 2009 7:37 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have to this point never read a more cogent summery of what's wrong with the ideologically pure left:[I]t's one that speaks to the college-educated, full of smartypants Web sites and a couple of elite think tanks, largely populated by people like me -- and maybe you. By that I mean people who don't live day to day, among the struggling parents of four or five kids, parents who used to earn a living in retail, or driving the trucks that stock the stores, or cranking out the cars we used to drive to the stores. Our distance from this reality leads us to the realm of wonkery and big ideas, perhaps willing to scuttle a health care bill if it has no public option, even if it would secure health care to millions for whom it is now out of reach. We debate climate change and net neutrality, both of which seem hopelessly abstract to people who are facing eviction from their homes.

Now this is not to say I never agree with those on the ideologically pure left (IPL.) I find I'm in accord with issue positions and criticisms of writers and activists like a Noam Chomsky or a Ralph Nader or an Alexander Cockburn or the Green Party 99 per cent of the time. It's just that one per cent that's the rub, being the IPL's willingness to throw in with the reactionary right in order to castigate the Democratic Party for some political offense or other, usually inattention to the poor or the environment.

As Adele Stan points out in the above paragraph the members of the IPL are by and large also members in good standing of the coordinator class, i.e. those who do not own the means of production but who run it on be half of the owners. This class, economically at the upper limits of what we in the United States call the "middle" class, now includes doctors, lawyers and college professors though many will try to deny this fact.

The crux of what is wrong with American politics and the political system is that all the great political battles of the day, health care, war, the environment, the economy, are being wages by members of the same socio-economic class, the coordinator class. The real difference between establishment Democrats and establishment Republicans is really very simple: Democrats are lawyers, Republicans are MBAs or at the very least insurance salesmen. And if you casually scan the bios of our US Senators and Congressman you find this a fairly accurate description to the point of stereotype. All our great political debates of the day are reduced to arguments over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, for both sides, Democrats and GOP, agree on the basic principals of the "free market" economic model.


So when members of the IPL level charges at both major political parties that there's not a dime's worth of difference, it's true. That is because most of the IPL are themselves members of the same socio-economic class, i.e. coordinator class, so they know it from the inside!

Let us remember that leading peace activist Chomsky is professor emeritus of a university, MIT, which is one of the leading recipients of Department of Defense contracts and grants! Nader, during his quixotic 2000 presidential bid, owned between $100,000 to $250,000 of shares in the Fidelity Magellan Fund. Cockburn is a collector of prized, gas guzzling American Fifties and Sixties automobiles. So while guilt by association is not admissible in a court of law, it should be in the court of public opinion.

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» RE: Thank you!!! Posted by: desidid

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IS IT ATTITIDUE OR APTITUDE?
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Nov 28, 2009 8:07 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is it really a matter of being educated or is the real emphasis on being able to afford an education? There are countless jobs that pay well and require a knowledge of the job. There are vocational schools, company training programs, mentoring, etc. I'm not talking about a career as an accountant or other profession. This is about a job that pays the bills that a person enjoys doing. I watched the young people come and go in corporations and other than being able to say ,"I went to college" there was very little else to recommend them. Much depends on their major. Math and/or accounting majors always win out. The Business management types seem uncertain. We seem to sell the college idea but not much else. These young people graduate with the equivalent of a mortgage to pay off and not a clue about much else. I see them as short changed. They start their lives 'buying into' the education thing and find themselves out there with not much to offer a perspective employer. Fact is they don't. No one tells them that the education is not enough. This article points out yet another 'have and have not' scenario. Tell the young people that they just can't make it' and they won't. It becomes another self fulfilling prophecy. ANNA

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The answer is in our wallets
Posted by: JFlagg on Nov 28, 2009 9:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US has had ups and downs in the economy. We have seen depression and boom. We have changed our economic base and recovered in the past. The hurdle that we have not had to get over in the past is the fact that we have been out-sourced. How's the World Trade Organization at taking care of Americans? Oh, that's right, WTO is not interested in the plight of American workers. It is interested in the plight of the world manufacturers and retailers. Well if you want to have jobs in the US, buy products made in the US. Our country signed away our Sovereignty in the 80's. We no longer control our imports. In fact our imports are dictated to us by the WTO. Our nation is not even able to dictate that funds spent to stimulate our economy and put Americans back to work is spent on Made in USA products. So our wallets will determine the outcome of this. If we buy products from outside our country we do not support Americans. Change will only come when Americans support the American worker.

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what does this have to do with the left?
Posted by: sharonsylvie on Nov 28, 2009 9:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't get it. This hasn't been created by the left or the progressives. It's been created by numerous policies of both parties (but mostly Republicans). The reason high school grads can't find jobs is that companies have been encouraged to leave the U.S. The government gave them tax breaks, or looked the other way about illegal aliens, in exchange for campaign contributions or just plain old bribe money. So the manufacturing jobs, the construction jobs, the butchers and meat packing plants, the telephone information workers--all those blue-collar jobs that you could get without a college education--they are all gone. Instead you can work at a Burger King for minimum wage. Or waitress for less than that. If you had a sales position, that's probably gone too, since nobody has much money left to buy anything.

What the article should have really focused on is how the Republicans can channel working class anger away from the real causes of their problems. How they blind people with crap about socialism, abortion, and gay marriage. How they scream about health care legislation and death panels as a government takeover when the bill is anything but. And how the media is complicit is keeping people stupid.

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Shocker! Less educated = less money?? NO!!
Posted by: McGovern72! on Nov 28, 2009 9:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Right after this headline:
Planet explodes! Women and minorities affected the most.

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So much wrong with the assumptions
Posted by: pg on Nov 28, 2009 10:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. Obama ran against Bush's deficits and he has quadrupled them.
2. The money he is spending is not creating jobs
3. Tea Party folks are not what you think. I know a 70 year old couple who are Tea Party folks who I help cut firewood on my property to heat their house. They are against the growth in government and high taxes. They are not astroturf as you claim. I don't go to tea parties but I agree with them.
4. I have no education beyond high school but I have made good money all my life due to a good work ethic that believes dedication and hard work will eventually be rewarded, too many people especially kids today have a sense of entitlement that the country owes them something like a job.
5. My wife is a teacher who prefers to work in poorer districts that are often minority and gang war zones where less than 20% graduate and less than 12% go to college. Most of the kids have no desire to do anything but get out of school and hit the streets and jobs programs will not help them because they have no work ethic or desire for success. Bring vocational training back into high schools where it used to be and many of the kids that are not academically oriented will be introduced to a path to success by finding talents and interests they do not know they have.
6. Obama is already a failed presidency.

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Nothing Shocking
Posted by: DeeOhGee on Nov 28, 2009 11:38 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's nothing shocking or new about this. That's always been the case and it's the reason parents who understand how the world works encourage their children to get an education. Go to college, get a better job, be employable, improve yourself. Come on, Alternet. You used to have such good, cutting edge articles and now it's a bunch of tawdry sex and idiotic fishmongering.

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typical democrats...
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford on Nov 28, 2009 11:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am not a democrat. I am not even a mainstream liberal. I am a green, enviro-loving, locavore socialist.

Typical democrats, "Republican Lite," as I saw it accurately portrayed in an earlier comment.

Democrats don't do anything to relieve the plight of the poor.
Democrats view the federal government as able to solve all the peoples' problems. Wrong. That one term, "federal government," is the slip-up.

No. The federal government is too far, too distant, too disorganized and too crooked to make any "noticeable" changes at a local level. States need to start looking after the well-being of their populations, rather than waiting for the national government to do something. LOCAL city governments need to start doing things to help out their own little towns, instead of sitting tight, hoping that big brother national government will shoo away the recession.

Communities must turn INWARDS if they hope to survive.
Start creating virtual medeval villages, where you have a few surrounding farms, a cobbler, a taylor, a butcher, a baker, a candlestick maker, and all that jazz. Make governments decree that restaurants must use a certain percentage of their food from local farms. That stores must stock a large percentage of their products from locally grown or made areas.

No more of this "300 million people all hoping for one guy in a stagnant, fetid swamp will solve all our problems if we do what he says."

Time for local action. You want true local? Throw WalMart and Target out of your towns, and find a local family willing to open a general store. You want true local? Decree that every citizen must install a wind turbine on their property, and those who can't afford it will be assisted via city taxes.

It's not glitzy, but dammit, it's practical, and it's honest. And it's FAR better than the nightmarish world we've created now, where everything is interconnected across such vast distances, so if one thing goes down, the entire thing collapses.

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» If only Posted by: PurpleLove08
» RE: If only Posted by: richholland
» RE: typical democrats... Posted by: lightwing1

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It's the old story of King Midas
Posted by: Sojourner on Nov 28, 2009 12:07 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He was granted his wish that everything he touch turn to gold, so that he could be the wealthiest ruler. And then he touched his beloved daughter and turned her into a golden statue.

We now have a government that shows it is unable to cope with out-of-control global capitalists. Offshoring jobs makes money. Blasting the tops off mountains makes money. Invading other nations makes money. Destroying nature makes money. Global warming makes money. Well, you get the point.

So long as our government can turn things to gold, we willingly sacrifice people to property.
Will we ever learn?

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Perhaps if highschool grads could read
Posted by: Ayla87 on Nov 28, 2009 12:10 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then they wouldn't have so much of a problem finding jobs. Perhaps if they could speak proper english, and write in coherent, grammatically correct sentences, then maybe the recruiting officers would be able to tolerate reading thier resume's (assuming they wrote one) and sitting though an interview with them.

I'm just speaking from experience here. As the screen name implies, I'm 22 years old. I only have a highschool diploma (that I didn't even try to earn). Yet every time I'm at a job fair or speaking with a recruiter, I hear them say to me, "I can tell you're smart/ educated/ capable. I can hear it in the way you speak.

Again, I have no college degree. All I have is a highschool diploma, and more importantly, a library card that's used quite often. I wonder if there's a connection...

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» Libraries are the path to self-education... Posted by: Rusty Shackleford
» RE: Perhaps if highschool grads could read Posted by: KentuckyPolarBear
» my brother-in-law to a tee... Posted by: Rusty Shackleford
» Nail, Head, Hit Posted by: garyfee
» RE: "thier resume's" Posted by: bcgirl125
» Haughty Harridan Posted by: garyfee
» RE: Anti-Educational Fool Posted by: bcgirl125
» RE: Anti-Educational Fool Posted by: garyfee

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Or said differently
Posted by: bigbrother on Nov 28, 2009 1:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The "right wing" of our insane one party system is giving them a voice. But in any case - this has been proven you generations, the more education you have the more security you have. Wear your pants down to your knees and no one will hire you!

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If I was president for just one term
Posted by: Richardsievert on Nov 28, 2009 2:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Richard Sievert Says:
November 28th, 2009 at 2:50 pm

lol to free men
If i was president this country would’ Have the angel’s bowing down at our great majesty’ I would have a system in place that would free every slave, Every prisoner and give them all job’s I would be ending every program ever created after’ Dixon from every president even after him Ending all laws created by any of them.
Whoever does needs to make things wright with the people that have been used by a system that is fair and creativity is UN Chained.
We must enter space. If I was president I wouldn't have to worry about any term'
Because the people would once again all have faith in you'
Not this current governed mess that they want to burn.
Please Obadiah read this I think it might be to late though? You lost your turn that money you spent could have made your country great' By just one thing I planned to do, Witch was just make the roadway's threw ground making'
"Cities great' And new ones that never will even get there name.

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As a high school graduate...
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman on Nov 28, 2009 4:21 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find this piece very patronizing. I guess I should expect as much from somebody who's graduated from college, knows only people who are college graduates, and assumes that everybody reading his piece is the same. It assumes that people who haven't graduated from college are stupid and therefore easily swayed by racist demagogues.

Read "Red State Blue State Rich State Poor State" by Andrew Gelman, and you'll be reminded of the obvious fact our idiot media tries so hard to deny: low-income people vote overwhelmingly Democrat. Rich people vote overwhelmingly Republican. So the idea that jobless or soon-to-be-jobless high school grads are going to turn en masse to conservatism is laughable at best.

The dangers of ideologically motivated "Tea Party" protesters have been overstated. Looking beyond the corporate media spin, you'll see that the numbers of anti-war protesters have consistently been much higher. And although some carry guns to meetings, they are NOT a militia movement--their organization is geared toward the normal political process, not armed revolt. In my opinion, the real danger will come much later--when our elite Democrat and Republican parties have made the income gap in this country so extreme that there are enough starving people to start food riots. It's happened already in many other countries, due to rising food prices driven by bumper harvests and ethanol demand. It can happen here.

And another thing--personally, I don't think much of Obama's health care bill. It would force me to buy health insurance, which, according to the Health Reform Subsidy Calculator, would mean I'd pay approximately $135/month. Not as bad as the coverage my employer "offers", which is around $300/month and the reason why I'm uninsured, but a) I live in a high-rent area, and b) my income isn't always the same from month to month; I cobble together a living from several intermittent jobs. The last thing I need is another fixed cost. I'm not going to fight for anything less than single payer--the "public option" won't cut it for me.

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» As a college graduate... Posted by: pauldd

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I guess I am Disconnected
Posted by: pauldd on Nov 28, 2009 4:34 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"We are simply not present in their world. Progressive writers rarely appear on the opinion pages of local newspapers (with the notable exception of David Sirota), and the progressive movement is rarely represented on the local television news. And that's our fault."

Somehow I came to the conclusion that this was due to the right leaning tilt in the corporate news board rooms, not the lack of progressive ideas, literature and activism. Silly me.

"Obama's approval numbers, according to a Gallup poll released this week, have fallen 22 points among whites."

I'm one of those 'whites' (if for some reason that makes a difference) and my approval of Obama has fallen explicitly due to his swing to the right or unnecessary compromises on economic stimuli, financial sector regulation reform, health care reform, the two wars he's continued or escalated and on a lesser scale his failure to follow through on repeal of DODT.

"It's time for liberal leaders to embark on a path that connects progressive goals to the plight of everyday people."

As Thomas Frank asked, "What's the Matter with Kansas?"

The failure I see is the failure of liberals/progressives to invest in media since the late '70s leading to an overwhelming structural imbalance in the number of voices and the breadth of ideas on the TV, radio and in print media. Well connected and well-to-do conservatives began the process soon after the Watergate scandal unfolded (e.g. Sung Myung Moon) while liberals bet on the belief that truth, justice and progressive ideals would win on their strength alone.

They failed to learn what Joseph Goebbels knew: "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." On the other hand, conservatives took it to heart.

In the end, if her reasons are off base, Stan's prescription is correct. There is a paucity of strong progressive voices in the mainstream media and in government. Let's all keep up the pressure to make our voices heard.

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Pwoggies to the Rescue!
Posted by: BobbyGreyFriar on Nov 28, 2009 6:23 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The title doesn't jive with the content of the article--perhaps an editor rather than the author wrote it. The article demonstrates a remarkable feat of self-reflexivity by usual progressive standards. For one thing, it doesn't simply cry, "Look at the wingnut!" when confronted by Glen Beck-types, but recognizes there is genuine populist anger that is being capitalized on.

However, I remain skeptical of progressives playing on constructive role--the average progressive has too much money, lives too comfortably and it is too smug to even admit the existence of class let alone fight for an economic and political reversal.

Regarding the specific article, the author still refuses to admit the basic facts, Obama was a corporate stooge before he knew he as running for office, the DP represents the same oligarchic elite as the RP and finally, to date progressives have sided with power at almost every turn (cf. dirtygreeniehippie.blogspot.com)--that the Saviors of the Universe pose (repeated here) has so far been vain pretense.

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» RE: Pwoggies to the Rescue! Posted by: richholland

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The Self-Employed are Invisible too
Posted by: rumigirl on Nov 28, 2009 7:34 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Every self employed person I know (including me) is struggling very hard, regardless of education. Doctor, lawyer, pilot, designer, electrician, programmer, store owner, restaurant owner ... Business is way down and the banks are barely lending. 21 years self employed, nobody can tell me I don't know how to do it. Those of you who have your corporate positions and feel so safe -- you really don't see it all around you? Really? Are you looking? I walk into a bindery and only the owner is there. He has let has entire staff of 25 workers go and still not enough work for just him. Stores closed. People gone I don't know where. We are hurting. When will the rest of you open your eyes and see?

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He Said You Can't Fucking Do That - And I Said Of Course You Fucking Can
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Nov 28, 2009 7:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You Take The Most Beautiful Image Of Your Life

For Example The English Lake District...

And You Produce This Enormous Image That Looks Beautiful From a Mile Back

But as You Travel Towards It You See More and More and More and More and More DETAIL

Such That Within This Scene You Can See The Real Beauty Of LIFE

He said - well why haven't you done it yet?

I said I tried - Yes I know photo stitch software but to take on this job properly you would need THOUSANDS Of Photographers Recording The Most Intimate Details of The Sex Life of a Grasshopper...

It is actually quite hard to explain this concept even to an incredibly talented artist - who I keep saying to him take your Love Away

If she says any more to me, then I am going to completely fall in Love with Your Wife

Like Absolutely Everyone Does With Mine

We were Expecting about 10 people back tonight

Not Half The Bleedin Pub...

But I kept saying and pointing to this Angel

Who was so Completely and Utterley Lovely To Everyone...

You See that Girl There...

She is My Wife

And I Love Her So

Tony

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White trash from Wasilla/Progressive Blowback
Posted by: scremf on Nov 28, 2009 11:07 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well finally someone besides Joe Bageant seems to be getting it. I can hear the anguised cries of all the green party members as they view the monthly statements on their trust funds. Gosh darn it, we have immigrants to help and an occupation in Afghanistan to end! Why don't those darn tea partiers do a bit of reading, and see the reality of the situation? Why don't they see that we are on their side? Have you ever considered that Tea Parties are blowback? I don't know alot of "progressives" who reach out to their white trash brothers and sisters. Usually they expend more energy talking down to them, telling them how we need to consume less and lift the rest of the world up to our standards.

Now I know I've probably raised a few hackles here, but like the old proverb says "the truth hurts". Before I go too much further perhaps a bit of personal history is in order.

I'm a white trash 55 year old male living in a 20' motorhome in beautiful downtown Palinville Alaska (I can see Putins house). My nearest neighbors are hooked on oxycon and lord knows what else and wake me up at all hours of the morning. My father died when I was 11 and I quit school at 17 to go logging in Washington State, an occupation I worked in until I was 37 and too crippled to continue. Obviously there's more but don't want to bore you with details, only wanted to highlight my working class credentials.

The sad truth is that the author is correct. Most "progressives" never think a heck of a lot about folks like me, they're way to busy helping fund a new orphanage in Nepal. Little wonder we working poor whites throng to tea parties. Heck, at least the right wing of the republican party makes an attempt (albeit a disengenuous one) to enagage us (and encourage us to wear our guns). When my U.I. benefits expire and I once again am homeless, I will take great solace in the fact that all the "progressives" in my town (must admit there ain't a whole heck of a lot of em here), are working hard to enact health care reform and having wine tastings to help raise money.

In parting, if you want to change things in this country, you need to start at ground zero. Help establish a food bank with organic local food in your community, donate health care services to the local poor, go hang out at a redneck bar, in short at least act like you care. Just like Al Quaida was able to enlist the poor, Dick Armey and his evil minions are able to tap into the righteous anger of the working poor. What we've got here is a classic example of working class blowback. Oh and by the way do you really think an out of work logger in Reids Port Oregon is going to vote for a "green" party candidate?

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» RE: Go Joe! Love him! Posted by: lightwing1
» RE: Like your idea's! Posted by: scremf

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morgan1
Posted by: morgan1 on Nov 29, 2009 3:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't believe the progressives and liberals have given up. I do believe they, and I am one of them, don't see any since in wasting more time on Obama or the Dems (And we really dislike the Republicans) as they are not listening to us, or the majority of Americans. He promised (One of many made and broken) universal healthcare and could not even get behind the public option. The idea went nowhere. Gitmo closing is delayed--Again. Torture and rendition is still occurring. We are still in Iraq and escalating in Afghanistan as well as Pakistan. This man's honeymoon in the WH is over. The WH is now focused on South America determined to bring all the countries who are a threat to our security under heel (Think Venezuela).We know who this man is and he is not for us. He is more of the same. Go Green. Stop funding and voting for these people.

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No Kidding? You are just now figuring this out?
Posted by: USexpat on Nov 29, 2009 3:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bottom line people. Its jobs. It always has been and it always will be. You don't build a house by starting on the roof and building down. You start at the foundation and build up from there. Until you start doing that everything else is just an abstract concept. Jobs and the infrastructure to support them are and should be the priority. Roosevelt understood that. Thats why putting people back to work was paramount. So what does that have to do with the above article? Its very simple. Personal experience. I went to college late in life. Most of my relatives in my age group did not go at all. Many of my family ARE the subject of this article. Here's the breakdown. 16 men and women ranging in age from 23 to 41. Of those only 5 finished college to the Bachelors level. Of those 5, 3 are working (all of them outside of the US). Of the others only 3 are employed. The rest have been laid off, had their self-employment mangled or have just plain given up because there is no point to it right now. That is a whole lot more than 15%. The thing that many people miss is that this trend started for people at my families level quite some time ago, just as it did for others in the same group. For us the economic crisis began several years ago and the rest of you are just finally catching up to where we already are. But as long as you leave the field open to the astroturf liars you will lose. Speaking for my family, they are angry already. They feel betrayed. And they want to know who did it. Right now the liars are telling everyone in their position who to blame. Give them enough time and it won't matter if it is true or not.

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This is nothing new
Posted by: longun45 on Nov 29, 2009 11:00 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
IN the 80's I was in construction and it was the first industry to be shut down. I learned and got into school with a degree in mind. I had to do the hard work of putting off gratification for a bigger payoff. I put in the work and I alone am entitled to the fruits of that labor. I earned it.

As always there are people who now want to enjoy the fruits of someone else's labors, and claim that they are entitled to equal results with out putting in the work necessary to secure those results. Why is that? (Hint: it’s why socialism always fails)

In other words we are supposed to carry dead weight. In real life it’s easy to say that you are owed something, you were taught that in school. That’s why you have no inkling of history, of government the way the American government was supposed to work. What you have instead is a 100 year history of continually progressive thinking that has ill prepared you for freedom. It has in stead prepared you for serfdom. Even at the college level they now preach serfdom.

The progressive thinking has always failed, mainly because it’s lazy thinking. The Socialist utopia is a wonderful idea but when it comes to practicality it fails because of human nature, and no amount of education will cure that, no amount of winning hearts and minds will cure that. There is always somebody on top. ( You know, the one who benefits the most.)

The socialist idea is that the state will take care of you, more and more people are finding that while it will take care of you, you won’t like the way it does actually take care of you. The state cannot fulfill it’s promises because there is not enough money to go around and support you in a lifestyle that you would enjoy. The state would first make slaves of you, oh it would be a soft slavery at first, but resist the system and it will be used to crush you. – Witness China in the Cultural Revolution. People starved and about 70 million died. Great results – huh!

The only system by which a man can honestly enjoy the fruits of his labors is under freedom. Yes capitalism has it’s many faults, but cheating people isn’t one of them. (That is until government gets into the picture and changes the game with unfair rules) Yes there are unequal results, but poverty comes from doing nothing and you can create wealth from your labors and you don’t cheat people with honest work, (oh dang there is that four lettered word again) Want proof? Look at Oprah – did she cheat people?

If there are any evil rich people then Oprah is one of them and she should be vilified, oh but wait she is a minority twice over, you cannot vilify her, but she is the evil rich is she not?

Socialism or progressivism (if you prefer) is the ANTITHESIS of opportunity. The only equality that can be achieved is one of opportunity, not outcome. This is a natural law and cannot be abrogated by some willy-nilly goody two shoes thinking. ALL who have tried it have failed. Witness in 1620 Jamestown. http://mises.org/story/336

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» Curious Posted by: garyfee
» RE: Curious Posted by: richholland
» RE: This is nothing new Posted by: desidid

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A 'progressively' dumber America laid yet another egg with Obama.
Posted by: Prinzowhales on Nov 29, 2009 3:16 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who's in charge of education in America? NEA, Liberal BS artists with PhD's in Education... committees of academics tut-tutting those simpleton parents who insist that children should learn to read, count and think in school rather than how 'OK' it is to be polymorphously perverse, etc. How many pregnant middle schoolers in Chicago?...and then, a bunch of dumbasses vote for a POS like Obama because...well, because he has a little colour and can speak the English language without forking it up--that spells P-r-o-g-r-e-s-s-i-v-e in America today.

Amazing! High-schoolers who can barely read can't get jobs when there are unemployed college graduates! Those damned 'right wingers'!!...they must have planned it...they always do!...It couldn't be that Goldman Sachs--those great Obama-supporting Progressives who have utterly betrayed the mouth-breathing chumps who flushed their votes down the clo for Obama--took trillions of dollars from Obama-gov and sent it abroad while letting said "chumps" lose their jobs...their homes...their futures...HOW VERY FRACKIN' PROGRESSIVE!...but, who needs a fracking right wing when you've got Goldman Sachs' dog--OBAMA!

What about CLIMATE-GATE?!!! Do you really care about some golfer hitting a damned fire plug?!!

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Travel is Broadening
Posted by: Lilly on Nov 29, 2009 7:36 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Go tonight (Sunday 11-29) to townhall.com to the Saunders article on Sarah Palin. Following it are over 200 comments posted by people who adore Palin and disparage higher education; most who post there not only see no need for school but think it makes people stupid and immoral.

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admire dollars
Posted by: parça kontör on Nov 30, 2009 5:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
parça kontör parça kontor

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ed hardy
Posted by: mxcm428 on Dec 22, 2009 4:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Alternet Comments:

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What Does Obama Have to Do with Progressives?
Posted by: mmckinl on Nov 28, 2009 12:50 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As far as I can tell Obama is moving further to the right with every step. Afghanistan escalation, talking about budget deficits, refusing to sign the land mine treaty, playing "Three Card Monty" with health care reform, more bases in Latin America, continuing to ignore Bernenke and Geithner's trillion dollar gifts to banksters ... and on and on.

Has the Alternet DC Bubble burst? Sure seems so as we now have a story about high school graduates and drop outs. The plight of the rust belt and those in agriculture is not new, it is just worse than ever.

Progressives had better get the word out that Obama's agenda is the antithesis of what a Progressive Agenda would look like. Progressives need seriously consider joining the Green Party, a real progressive party.

As far as I can tell Obama is a lost cause. It is not worth trying to revive a Democratic Party that always ends up being Republican Lite ... Progressives need to capture the imagination of the youth out there today. What the current bunch in Congress and the White House are leaving them is an inheritance of debt and destruction unparalleled in the generational politics of America.

Go Green ...

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What Does Obama Have to Do with Progressives?
Posted by: mmckinl on Nov 28, 2009 12:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As far as I can tell Obama is moving further to the right with every step. Afghanistan escalation, talking about budget deficits, refusing to sign the land mine treaty, playing "Three Card Monty" with health care reform, more bases in Latin America, continuing to ignore Bernenke and Geithner's trillion dollar gifts to banksters ... and on and on.

Has the Alternet DC Bubble burst? Sure seems so as we now have a story about high school graduates and drop outs. The plight of the rust belt and those in agriculture is not new, it is just worse than ever.

Progressives had better get the word out that Obama's agenda is the antithesis of what a Progressive Agenda would look like. Progressives need seriously consider joining the Green Party, a real progressive party.

As far as I can tell Obama is a lost cause. It is not worth trying to revive a Democratic Party that always ends up being Republican Lite ... Progressives need to capture the imagination of the youth out there today. What the current bunch in Congress and the White House are leaving them is an inheritance of debt and destruction unparalleled in the generational politics of America.

Go Green ...

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What Does Obama Have to Do With Progressives?
Posted by: mmckinl on Nov 28, 2009 12:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As far as I can tell Obama is moving further to the right with every step. Afghanistan escalation, talking about budget deficits, refusing to sign the land mine treaty, playing "Three Card Monty" with health care reform, more bases in Latin America, continuing to ignore Bernenke and Geithner's trillion dollar gifts to banksters ... and on and on.

Has the Alternet DC Bubble burst? Sure seems so as we now have a story about high school graduates and drop outs. The plight of the rust belt and those in agriculture is not new, it is just worse than ever.

Progressives had better get the word out that Obama's agenda is the antithesis of what a Progressive Agenda would look like. Progressives need seriously consider joining the Green Party, a real progressive party.

As far as I can tell Obama is a lost cause. It is not worth trying to revive a Democratic Party that always ends up being Republican Lite ... Progressives need to capture the imagination of the youth out there today. What the current bunch in Congress and the White House are leaving them is an inheritance of debt and destruction unparalleled in the generational politics of America.

Go Green ...

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» RE: Keep thinking that... Posted by: ETSpoon

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"Civil war'
Posted by: Richardsievert on Nov 28, 2009 6:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These hell bent leaders are squeezing our economy to force our children into war look at it threw the eye's of a master' And see the truth pure as filtered water, Threw a spout.
Will you wait to see "your children's make up in a box, Cold as ice dead. You father's of the fallen?
Mother's of the laden bearing children for Americas stolen war' Made from the darkest water's of hell' It's time for civil war'
These fuckers are so dark' One filter would be toast with just one life it's so disgusting' "It would never work again' After the poison thing it tried to filter threw it's man made plan.

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On the other hand, it's a good thing I put career and education ahead of marriage. :(
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Nov 28, 2009 6:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Both the faux "liberals" and conservatives are benefitting from their suffering. Until society puts quality education before privatizing education for money's sake, nothing will improve.

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Thank you!!!
Posted by: ETSpoon on Nov 28, 2009 7:37 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have to this point never read a more cogent summery of what's wrong with the ideologically pure left:[I]t's one that speaks to the college-educated, full of smartypants Web sites and a couple of elite think tanks, largely populated by people like me -- and maybe you. By that I mean people who don't live day to day, among the struggling parents of four or five kids, parents who used to earn a living in retail, or driving the trucks that stock the stores, or cranking out the cars we used to drive to the stores. Our distance from this reality leads us to the realm of wonkery and big ideas, perhaps willing to scuttle a health care bill if it has no public option, even if it would secure health care to millions for whom it is now out of reach. We debate climate change and net neutrality, both of which seem hopelessly abstract to people who are facing eviction from their homes.

Now this is not to say I never agree with those on the ideologically pure left (IPL.) I find I'm in accord with issue positions and criticisms of writers and activists like a Noam Chomsky or a Ralph Nader or an Alexander Cockburn or the Green Party 99 per cent of the time. It's just that one per cent that's the rub, being the IPL's willingness to throw in with the reactionary right in order to castigate the Democratic Party for some political offense or other, usually inattention to the poor or the environment.

As Adele Stan points out in the above paragraph the members of the IPL are by and large also members in good standing of the coordinator class, i.e. those who do not own the means of production but who run it on be half of the owners. This class, economically at the upper limits of what we in the United States call the "middle" class, now includes doctors, lawyers and college professors though many will try to deny this fact.

The crux of what is wrong with American politics and the political system is that all the great political battles of the day, health care, war, the environment, the economy, are being wages by members of the same socio-economic class, the coordinator class. The real difference between establishment Democrats and establishment Republicans is really very simple: Democrats are lawyers, Republicans are MBAs or at the very least insurance salesmen. And if you casually scan the bios of our US Senators and Congressman you find this a fairly accurate description to the point of stereotype. All our great political debates of the day are reduced to arguments over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, for both sides, Democrats and GOP, agree on the basic principals of the "free market" economic model.


So when members of the IPL level charges at both major political parties that there's not a dime's worth of difference, it's true. That is because most of the IPL are themselves members of the same socio-economic class, i.e. coordinator class, so they know it from the inside!

Let us remember that leading peace activist Chomsky is professor emeritus of a university, MIT, which is one of the leading recipients of Department of Defense contracts and grants! Nader, during his quixotic 2000 presidential bid, owned between $100,000 to $250,000 of shares in the Fidelity Magellan Fund. Cockburn is a collector of prized, gas guzzling American Fifties and Sixties automobiles. So while guilt by association is not admissible in a court of law, it should be in the court of public opinion.

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» RE: Thank you!!! Posted by: desidid

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IS IT ATTITIDUE OR APTITUDE?
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Nov 28, 2009 8:07 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is it really a matter of being educated or is the real emphasis on being able to afford an education? There are countless jobs that pay well and require a knowledge of the job. There are vocational schools, company training programs, mentoring, etc. I'm not talking about a career as an accountant or other profession. This is about a job that pays the bills that a person enjoys doing. I watched the young people come and go in corporations and other than being able to say ,"I went to college" there was very little else to recommend them. Much depends on their major. Math and/or accounting majors always win out. The Business management types seem uncertain. We seem to sell the college idea but not much else. These young people graduate with the equivalent of a mortgage to pay off and not a clue about much else. I see them as short changed. They start their lives 'buying into' the education thing and find themselves out there with not much to offer a perspective employer. Fact is they don't. No one tells them that the education is not enough. This article points out yet another 'have and have not' scenario. Tell the young people that they just can't make it' and they won't. It becomes another self fulfilling prophecy. ANNA

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The answer is in our wallets
Posted by: JFlagg on Nov 28, 2009 9:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US has had ups and downs in the economy. We have seen depression and boom. We have changed our economic base and recovered in the past. The hurdle that we have not had to get over in the past is the fact that we have been out-sourced. How's the World Trade Organization at taking care of Americans? Oh, that's right, WTO is not interested in the plight of American workers. It is interested in the plight of the world manufacturers and retailers. Well if you want to have jobs in the US, buy products made in the US. Our country signed away our Sovereignty in the 80's. We no longer control our imports. In fact our imports are dictated to us by the WTO. Our nation is not even able to dictate that funds spent to stimulate our economy and put Americans back to work is spent on Made in USA products. So our wallets will determine the outcome of this. If we buy products from outside our country we do not support Americans. Change will only come when Americans support the American worker.

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what does this have to do with the left?
Posted by: sharonsylvie on Nov 28, 2009 9:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't get it. This hasn't been created by the left or the progressives. It's been created by numerous policies of both parties (but mostly Republicans). The reason high school grads can't find jobs is that companies have been encouraged to leave the U.S. The government gave them tax breaks, or looked the other way about illegal aliens, in exchange for campaign contributions or just plain old bribe money. So the manufacturing jobs, the construction jobs, the butchers and meat packing plants, the telephone information workers--all those blue-collar jobs that you could get without a college education--they are all gone. Instead you can work at a Burger King for minimum wage. Or waitress for less than that. If you had a sales position, that's probably gone too, since nobody has much money left to buy anything.

What the article should have really focused on is how the Republicans can channel working class anger away from the real causes of their problems. How they blind people with crap about socialism, abortion, and gay marriage. How they scream about health care legislation and death panels as a government takeover when the bill is anything but. And how the media is complicit is keeping people stupid.

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Shocker! Less educated = less money?? NO!!
Posted by: McGovern72! on Nov 28, 2009 9:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Right after this headline:
Planet explodes! Women and minorities affected the most.

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So much wrong with the assumptions
Posted by: pg on Nov 28, 2009 10:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. Obama ran against Bush's deficits and he has quadrupled them.
2. The money he is spending is not creating jobs
3. Tea Party folks are not what you think. I know a 70 year old couple who are Tea Party folks who I help cut firewood on my property to heat their house. They are against the growth in government and high taxes. They are not astroturf as you claim. I don't go to tea parties but I agree with them.
4. I have no education beyond high school but I have made good money all my life due to a good work ethic that believes dedication and hard work will eventually be rewarded, too many people especially kids today have a sense of entitlement that the country owes them something like a job.
5. My wife is a teacher who prefers to work in poorer districts that are often minority and gang war zones where less than 20% graduate and less than 12% go to college. Most of the kids have no desire to do anything but get out of school and hit the streets and jobs programs will not help them because they have no work ethic or desire for success. Bring vocational training back into high schools where it used to be and many of the kids that are not academically oriented will be introduced to a path to success by finding talents and interests they do not know they have.
6. Obama is already a failed presidency.

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Nothing Shocking
Posted by: DeeOhGee on Nov 28, 2009 11:38 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's nothing shocking or new about this. That's always been the case and it's the reason parents who understand how the world works encourage their children to get an education. Go to college, get a better job, be employable, improve yourself. Come on, Alternet. You used to have such good, cutting edge articles and now it's a bunch of tawdry sex and idiotic fishmongering.

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typical democrats...
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford on Nov 28, 2009 11:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am not a democrat. I am not even a mainstream liberal. I am a green, enviro-loving, locavore socialist.

Typical democrats, "Republican Lite," as I saw it accurately portrayed in an earlier comment.

Democrats don't do anything to relieve the plight of the poor.
Democrats view the federal government as able to solve all the peoples' problems. Wrong. That one term, "federal government," is the slip-up.

No. The federal government is too far, too distant, too disorganized and too crooked to make any "noticeable" changes at a local level. States need to start looking after the well-being of their populations, rather than waiting for the national government to do something. LOCAL city governments need to start doing things to help out their own little towns, instead of sitting tight, hoping that big brother national government will shoo away the recession.

Communities must turn INWARDS if they hope to survive.
Start creating virtual medeval villages, where you have a few surrounding farms, a cobbler, a taylor, a butcher, a baker, a candlestick maker, and all that jazz. Make governments decree that restaurants must use a certain percentage of their food from local farms. That stores must stock a large percentage of their products from locally grown or made areas.

No more of this "300 million people all hoping for one guy in a stagnant, fetid swamp will solve all our problems if we do what he says."

Time for local action. You want true local? Throw WalMart and Target out of your towns, and find a local family willing to open a general store. You want true local? Decree that every citizen must install a wind turbine on their property, and those who can't afford it will be assisted via city taxes.

It's not glitzy, but dammit, it's practical, and it's honest. And it's FAR better than the nightmarish world we've created now, where everything is interconnected across such vast distances, so if one thing goes down, the entire thing collapses.

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» If only Posted by: PurpleLove08
» RE: If only Posted by: richholland
» RE: typical democrats... Posted by: lightwing1

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It's the old story of King Midas
Posted by: Sojourner on Nov 28, 2009 12:07 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He was granted his wish that everything he touch turn to gold, so that he could be the wealthiest ruler. And then he touched his beloved daughter and turned her into a golden statue.

We now have a government that shows it is unable to cope with out-of-control global capitalists. Offshoring jobs makes money. Blasting the tops off mountains makes money. Invading other nations makes money. Destroying nature makes money. Global warming makes money. Well, you get the point.

So long as our government can turn things to gold, we willingly sacrifice people to property.
Will we ever learn?

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Perhaps if highschool grads could read
Posted by: Ayla87 on Nov 28, 2009 12:10 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then they wouldn't have so much of a problem finding jobs. Perhaps if they could speak proper english, and write in coherent, grammatically correct sentences, then maybe the recruiting officers would be able to tolerate reading thier resume's (assuming they wrote one) and sitting though an interview with them.

I'm just speaking from experience here. As the screen name implies, I'm 22 years old. I only have a highschool diploma (that I didn't even try to earn). Yet every time I'm at a job fair or speaking with a recruiter, I hear them say to me, "I can tell you're smart/ educated/ capable. I can hear it in the way you speak.

Again, I have no college degree. All I have is a highschool diploma, and more importantly, a library card that's used quite often. I wonder if there's a connection...

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» Libraries are the path to self-education... Posted by: Rusty Shackleford
» RE: Perhaps if highschool grads could read Posted by: KentuckyPolarBear
» my brother-in-law to a tee... Posted by: Rusty Shackleford
» Nail, Head, Hit Posted by: garyfee
» RE: "thier resume's" Posted by: bcgirl125
» Haughty Harridan Posted by: garyfee
» RE: Anti-Educational Fool Posted by: bcgirl125
» RE: Anti-Educational Fool Posted by: garyfee

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Or said differently
Posted by: bigbrother on Nov 28, 2009 1:04 PM   
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The "right wing" of our insane one party system is giving them a voice. But in any case - this has been proven you generations, the more education you have the more security you have. Wear your pants down to your knees and no one will hire you!

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If I was president for just one term
Posted by: Richardsievert on Nov 28, 2009 2:12 PM   
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Richard Sievert Says:
November 28th, 2009 at 2:50 pm

lol to free men
If i was president this country would’ Have the angel’s bowing down at our great majesty’ I would have a system in place that would free every slave, Every prisoner and give them all job’s I would be ending every program ever created after’ Dixon from every president even after him Ending all laws created by any of them.
Whoever does needs to make things wright with the people that have been used by a system that is fair and creativity is UN Chained.
We must enter space. If I was president I wouldn't have to worry about any term'
Because the people would once again all have faith in you'
Not this current governed mess that they want to burn.
Please Obadiah read this I think it might be to late though? You lost your turn that money you spent could have made your country great' By just one thing I planned to do, Witch was just make the roadway's threw ground making'
"Cities great' And new ones that never will even get there name.

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As a high school graduate...
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman on Nov 28, 2009 4:21 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find this piece very patronizing. I guess I should expect as much from somebody who's graduated from college, knows only people who are college graduates, and assumes that everybody reading his piece is the same. It assumes that people who haven't graduated from college are stupid and therefore easily swayed by racist demagogues.

Read "Red State Blue State Rich State Poor State" by Andrew Gelman, and you'll be reminded of the obvious fact our idiot media tries so hard to deny: low-income people vote overwhelmingly Democrat. Rich people vote overwhelmingly Republican. So the idea that jobless or soon-to-be-jobless high school grads are going to turn en masse to conservatism is laughable at best.

The dangers of ideologically motivated "Tea Party" protesters have been overstated. Looking beyond the corporate media spin, you'll see that the numbers of anti-war protesters have consistently been much higher. And although some carry guns to meetings, they are NOT a militia movement--their organization is geared toward the normal political process, not armed revolt. In my opinion, the real danger will come much later--when our elite Democrat and Republican parties have made the income gap in this country so extreme that there are enough starving people to start food riots. It's happened already in many other countries, due to rising food prices driven by bumper harvests and ethanol demand. It can happen here.

And another thing--personally, I don't think much of Obama's health care bill. It would force me to buy health insurance, which, according to the Health Reform Subsidy Calculator, would mean I'd pay approximately $135/month. Not as bad as the coverage my employer "offers", which is around $300/month and the reason why I'm uninsured, but a) I live in a high-rent area, and b) my income isn't always the same from month to month; I cobble together a living from several intermittent jobs. The last thing I need is another fixed cost. I'm not going to fight for anything less than single payer--the "public option" won't cut it for me.

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» As a college graduate... Posted by: pauldd

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I guess I am Disconnected
Posted by: pauldd on Nov 28, 2009 4:34 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"We are simply not present in their world. Progressive writers rarely appear on the opinion pages of local newspapers (with the notable exception of David Sirota), and the progressive movement is rarely represented on the local television news. And that's our fault."

Somehow I came to the conclusion that this was due to the right leaning tilt in the corporate news board rooms, not the lack of progressive ideas, literature and activism. Silly me.

"Obama's approval numbers, according to a Gallup poll released this week, have fallen 22 points among whites."

I'm one of those 'whites' (if for some reason that makes a difference) and my approval of Obama has fallen explicitly due to his swing to the right or unnecessary compromises on economic stimuli, financial sector regulation reform, health care reform, the two wars he's continued or escalated and on a lesser scale his failure to follow through on repeal of DODT.

"It's time for liberal leaders to embark on a path that connects progressive goals to the plight of everyday people."

As Thomas Frank asked, "What's the Matter with Kansas?"

The failure I see is the failure of liberals/progressives to invest in media since the late '70s leading to an overwhelming structural imbalance in the number of voices and the breadth of ideas on the TV, radio and in print media. Well connected and well-to-do conservatives began the process soon after the Watergate scandal unfolded (e.g. Sung Myung Moon) while liberals bet on the belief that truth, justice and progressive ideals would win on their strength alone.

They failed to learn what Joseph Goebbels knew: "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." On the other hand, conservatives took it to heart.

In the end, if her reasons are off base, Stan's prescription is correct. There is a paucity of strong progressive voices in the mainstream media and in government. Let's all keep up the pressure to make our voices heard.

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Pwoggies to the Rescue!
Posted by: BobbyGreyFriar on Nov 28, 2009 6:23 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The title doesn't jive with the content of the article--perhaps an editor rather than the author wrote it. The article demonstrates a remarkable feat of self-reflexivity by usual progressive standards. For one thing, it doesn't simply cry, "Look at the wingnut!" when confronted by Glen Beck-types, but recognizes there is genuine populist anger that is being capitalized on.

However, I remain skeptical of progressives playing on constructive role--the average progressive has too much money, lives too comfortably and it is too smug to even admit the existence of class let alone fight for an economic and political reversal.

Regarding the specific article, the author still refuses to admit the basic facts, Obama was a corporate stooge before he knew he as running for office, the DP represents the same oligarchic elite as the RP and finally, to date progressives have sided with power at almost every turn (cf. dirtygreeniehippie.blogspot.com)--that the Saviors of the Universe pose (repeated here) has so far been vain pretense.

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» RE: Pwoggies to the Rescue! Posted by: richholland

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The Self-Employed are Invisible too
Posted by: rumigirl on Nov 28, 2009 7:34 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Every self employed person I know (including me) is struggling very hard, regardless of education. Doctor, lawyer, pilot, designer, electrician, programmer, store owner, restaurant owner ... Business is way down and the banks are barely lending. 21 years self employed, nobody can tell me I don't know how to do it. Those of you who have your corporate positions and feel so safe -- you really don't see it all around you? Really? Are you looking? I walk into a bindery and only the owner is there. He has let has entire staff of 25 workers go and still not enough work for just him. Stores closed. People gone I don't know where. We are hurting. When will the rest of you open your eyes and see?

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He Said You Can't Fucking Do That - And I Said Of Course You Fucking Can
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Nov 28, 2009 7:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You Take The Most Beautiful Image Of Your Life

For Example The English Lake District...

And You Produce This Enormous Image That Looks Beautiful From a Mile Back

But as You Travel Towards It You See More and More and More and More and More DETAIL

Such That Within This Scene You Can See The Real Beauty Of LIFE

He said - well why haven't you done it yet?

I said I tried - Yes I know photo stitch software but to take on this job properly you would need THOUSANDS Of Photographers Recording The Most Intimate Details of The Sex Life of a Grasshopper...

It is actually quite hard to explain this concept even to an incredibly talented artist - who I keep saying to him take your Love Away

If she says any more to me, then I am going to completely fall in Love with Your Wife

Like Absolutely Everyone Does With Mine

We were Expecting about 10 people back tonight

Not Half The Bleedin Pub...

But I kept saying and pointing to this Angel

Who was so Completely and Utterley Lovely To Everyone...

You See that Girl There...

She is My Wife

And I Love Her So

Tony

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White trash from Wasilla/Progressive Blowback
Posted by: scremf on Nov 28, 2009 11:07 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well finally someone besides Joe Bageant seems to be getting it. I can hear the anguised cries of all the green party members as they view the monthly statements on their trust funds. Gosh darn it, we have immigrants to help and an occupation in Afghanistan to end! Why don't those darn tea partiers do a bit of reading, and see the reality of the situation? Why don't they see that we are on their side? Have you ever considered that Tea Parties are blowback? I don't know alot of "progressives" who reach out to their white trash brothers and sisters. Usually they expend more energy talking down to them, telling them how we need to consume less and lift the rest of the world up to our standards.

Now I know I've probably raised a few hackles here, but like the old proverb says "the truth hurts". Before I go too much further perhaps a bit of personal history is in order.

I'm a white trash 55 year old male living in a 20' motorhome in beautiful downtown Palinville Alaska (I can see Putins house). My nearest neighbors are hooked on oxycon and lord knows what else and wake me up at all hours of the morning. My father died when I was 11 and I quit school at 17 to go logging in Washington State, an occupation I worked in until I was 37 and too crippled to continue. Obviously there's more but don't want to bore you with details, only wanted to highlight my working class credentials.

The sad truth is that the author is correct. Most "progressives" never think a heck of a lot about folks like me, they're way to busy helping fund a new orphanage in Nepal. Little wonder we working poor whites throng to tea parties. Heck, at least the right wing of the republican party makes an attempt (albeit a disengenuous one) to enagage us (and encourage us to wear our guns). When my U.I. benefits expire and I once again am homeless, I will take great solace in the fact that all the "progressives" in my town (must admit there ain't a whole heck of a lot of em here), are working hard to enact health care reform and having wine tastings to help raise money.

In parting, if you want to change things in this country, you need to start at ground zero. Help establish a food bank with organic local food in your community, donate health care services to the local poor, go hang out at a redneck bar, in short at least act like you care. Just like Al Quaida was able to enlist the poor, Dick Armey and his evil minions are able to tap into the righteous anger of the working poor. What we've got here is a classic example of working class blowback. Oh and by the way do you really think an out of work logger in Reids Port Oregon is going to vote for a "green" party candidate?

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» RE: Go Joe! Love him! Posted by: lightwing1
» RE: Like your idea's! Posted by: scremf

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morgan1
Posted by: morgan1 on Nov 29, 2009 3:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't believe the progressives and liberals have given up. I do believe they, and I am one of them, don't see any since in wasting more time on Obama or the Dems (And we really dislike the Republicans) as they are not listening to us, or the majority of Americans. He promised (One of many made and broken) universal healthcare and could not even get behind the public option. The idea went nowhere. Gitmo closing is delayed--Again. Torture and rendition is still occurring. We are still in Iraq and escalating in Afghanistan as well as Pakistan. This man's honeymoon in the WH is over. The WH is now focused on South America determined to bring all the countries who are a threat to our security under heel (Think Venezuela).We know who this man is and he is not for us. He is more of the same. Go Green. Stop funding and voting for these people.

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No Kidding? You are just now figuring this out?
Posted by: USexpat on Nov 29, 2009 3:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bottom line people. Its jobs. It always has been and it always will be. You don't build a house by starting on the roof and building down. You start at the foundation and build up from there. Until you start doing that everything else is just an abstract concept. Jobs and the infrastructure to support them are and should be the priority. Roosevelt understood that. Thats why putting people back to work was paramount. So what does that have to do with the above article? Its very simple. Personal experience. I went to college late in life. Most of my relatives in my age group did not go at all. Many of my family ARE the subject of this article. Here's the breakdown. 16 men and women ranging in age from 23 to 41. Of those only 5 finished college to the Bachelors level. Of those 5, 3 are working (all of them outside of the US). Of the others only 3 are employed. The rest have been laid off, had their self-employment mangled or have just plain given up because there is no point to it right now. That is a whole lot more than 15%. The thing that many people miss is that this trend started for people at my families level quite some time ago, just as it did for others in the same group. For us the economic crisis began several years ago and the rest of you are just finally catching up to where we already are. But as long as you leave the field open to the astroturf liars you will lose. Speaking for my family, they are angry already. They feel betrayed. And they want to know who did it. Right now the liars are telling everyone in their position who to blame. Give them enough time and it won't matter if it is true or not.

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This is nothing new
Posted by: longun45 on Nov 29, 2009 11:00 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
IN the 80's I was in construction and it was the first industry to be shut down. I learned and got into school with a degree in mind. I had to do the hard work of putting off gratification for a bigger payoff. I put in the work and I alone am entitled to the fruits of that labor. I earned it.

As always there are people who now want to enjoy the fruits of someone else's labors, and claim that they are entitled to equal results with out putting in the work necessary to secure those results. Why is that? (Hint: it’s why socialism always fails)

In other words we are supposed to carry dead weight. In real life it’s easy to say that you are owed something, you were taught that in school. That’s why you have no inkling of history, of government the way the American government was supposed to work. What you have instead is a 100 year history of continually progressive thinking that has ill prepared you for freedom. It has in stead prepared you for serfdom. Even at the college level they now preach serfdom.

The progressive thinking has always failed, mainly because it’s lazy thinking. The Socialist utopia is a wonderful idea but when it comes to practicality it fails because of human nature, and no amount of education will cure that, no amount of winning hearts and minds will cure that. There is always somebody on top. ( You know, the one who benefits the most.)

The socialist idea is that the state will take care of you, more and more people are finding that while it will take care of you, you won’t like the way it does actually take care of you. The state cannot fulfill it’s promises because there is not enough money to go around and support you in a lifestyle that you would enjoy. The state would first make slaves of you, oh it would be a soft slavery at first, but resist the system and it will be used to crush you. – Witness China in the Cultural Revolution. People starved and about 70 million died. Great results – huh!

The only system by which a man can honestly enjoy the fruits of his labors is under freedom. Yes capitalism has it’s many faults, but cheating people isn’t one of them. (That is until government gets into the picture and changes the game with unfair rules) Yes there are unequal results, but poverty comes from doing nothing and you can create wealth from your labors and you don’t cheat people with honest work, (oh dang there is that four lettered word again) Want proof? Look at Oprah – did she cheat people?

If there are any evil rich people then Oprah is one of them and she should be vilified, oh but wait she is a minority twice over, you cannot vilify her, but she is the evil rich is she not?

Socialism or progressivism (if you prefer) is the ANTITHESIS of opportunity. The only equality that can be achieved is one of opportunity, not outcome. This is a natural law and cannot be abrogated by some willy-nilly goody two shoes thinking. ALL who have tried it have failed. Witness in 1620 Jamestown. http://mises.org/story/336

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» Curious Posted by: garyfee
» RE: Curious Posted by: richholland
» RE: This is nothing new Posted by: desidid

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A 'progressively' dumber America laid yet another egg with Obama.
Posted by: Prinzowhales on Nov 29, 2009 3:16 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who's in charge of education in America? NEA, Liberal BS artists with PhD's in Education... committees of academics tut-tutting those simpleton parents who insist that children should learn to read, count and think in school rather than how 'OK' it is to be polymorphously perverse, etc. How many pregnant middle schoolers in Chicago?...and then, a bunch of dumbasses vote for a POS like Obama because...well, because he has a little colour and can speak the English language without forking it up--that spells P-r-o-g-r-e-s-s-i-v-e in America today.

Amazing! High-schoolers who can barely read can't get jobs when there are unemployed college graduates! Those damned 'right wingers'!!...they must have planned it...they always do!...It couldn't be that Goldman Sachs--those great Obama-supporting Progressives who have utterly betrayed the mouth-breathing chumps who flushed their votes down the clo for Obama--took trillions of dollars from Obama-gov and sent it abroad while letting said "chumps" lose their jobs...their homes...their futures...HOW VERY FRACKIN' PROGRESSIVE!...but, who needs a fracking right wing when you've got Goldman Sachs' dog--OBAMA!

What about CLIMATE-GATE?!!! Do you really care about some golfer hitting a damned fire plug?!!

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Travel is Broadening
Posted by: Lilly on Nov 29, 2009 7:36 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Go tonight (Sunday 11-29) to townhall.com to the Saunders article on Sarah Palin. Following it are over 200 comments posted by people who adore Palin and disparage higher education; most who post there not only see no need for school but think it makes people stupid and immoral.

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admire dollars
Posted by: parça kontör on Nov 30, 2009 5:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
parça kontör parça kontor

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ed hardy
Posted by: mxcm428 on Dec 22, 2009 4:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
 
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