COMMENTS: 58
Republican Senate Sex Scandals Point Back to Secretive Conservative Christian "Family"
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Before the Tea Party Express brought tens of thousands to protest in the nation’s capital, and before town hall meetings about health care devolved into shout downs, there was the story of the boys of C Street.
What at first seemed like a series of public sex scandals turned out to have a connective thread. The main protagonists (Governor Mark Sanford of South Carolina, Senator John Ensign of Nevada, and former Arkansas Congressman Chip Pickering) were all one-time residents of C Street and members of the Family, otherwise known as the Fellowship. As the summer unfurled, the “three amigos” gave mainstream media outlets plenty to talk about, and this highly secretive and powerful right-wing group got a lot of exposure. And then, as is the wont of the media, the story of C Street disappeared from the headlines.
In this exclusive Religion Dispatches interview, Jeff Sharlet, author of 2008’s The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power, talks about The Family and its summer of scandal, the organization’s tarnished present and future possibilities, and why the mainstream media had such a difficult time dealing with the group’s unusual political/religious beliefs.
First off, tell us three critical things we should know about The Family?
Jeff Sharlet: The Family is the oldest and arguably most influential religious conservative organization in Washington, a “brotherhood” comprised mostly of politicians such as Senator Jim Inhofe, Senator Tom Coburn, Senator Sam Brownback, Senator Jim DeMint, and, now infamously, Senator John Ensign, Governor Mark Sanford, and former congressman Chip Pickering, all of whom turned to The Family to help cover up sex scandals this past summer. The reason you may not have heard about the group is that it doesn’t want you to hear about it—“the more invisible you can make your organization,” preaches leader Doug Coe, “the more influence it will have.” They’re not the only group in Washington that keeps a low profile, but it’s the nature of their influence that’s really noteworthy: some congressmen call it simply personal and thus private, but nearly 600 boxes of documents stored at the Billy Graham Center Archive reveals decades of intense political work around foreign and economic affairs.
Most people don’t know anything about Doug Coe, the Family’s longtime leader. How did he manage to escape the public spotlight for such a long period of time? What makes him such a unique figure?
A few years ago, Time magazine was making up a list of the 25 most powerful evangelicals. Since I write a lot on these subjects, they asked me who I’d suggest. I said Coe. “Who’s he?” the reporter, David Van Biema, responded. I told him to call the offices of a dozen congressmen—if at least half didn’t mention Coe, don’t include him. Well, Coe made the list, at number four, pictured with Bush, Sr., under the headline, “The Stealth Persuader.”
The secret to his stealth is simple: In a city where everybody wants to be in the news, Coe isn’t seeking publicity. Way back in 1966, when he first began assuming leadership of the organization he’d come to re-brand as the Family, he sent out a memo declaring that the time had come to “submerge” the group’s public profile. In a rare interview, he admits that the National Prayer Breakfast—owned and organized by the Family since its founding in 1953, despite its official appearance—isn’t “one tenth of one percent” of what the Family accomplishes behind the scenes.
That penchant for “invisibility,” as he calls it, makes him unusual, but don’t mistake him for some humble servant of the Lord. Above all else, Coe admires strength, of the iron fist variety. Over the years he’s acted as a de facto lobbyist for strongmen ranging from Haiti’s Papa Doc Duvalier to Indonesia’s Suharto. Disavowing the strident pulpit-pounding that makes headlines, Coe preaches a far more authoritarian message, advising congressmen to look to “evil men” such as Hitler, Stalin, and Mao for insight into the nature of Christ’s power.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: jwgriffith on Oct 12, 2009 1:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Hillary Clinton Was Also In the Family
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE:Hillary has always been and always will be a Repug
Posted by: Purple Girl
» He didn't fail to mention Democrats.
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Hillary Clinton Was Also In the Family-don't think so
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Perhaps You Should Think Again
Posted by: desidid
» Depends on what you mean by "member."
Posted by: dkm
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Sister_Lauren on Oct 12, 2009 2:32 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My observation is the press is religiously illiterate outside of Catholicism and Judaism. Of course if you are Catholic, maintaining ignorance about other religions is an important part of your religion, so it kinda goes without saying.
It is a very interesting observation. I suspect it is done on purpose. Not only do reporters seem religiously illiterate, but proud of it.
For reporters to start having religious understandings, especially of other people's religions, would chip away at their ideal of 'objectivity' an emotional state that looks an awful lot like a lack of conscience from here, in other words a sociopath's point of view.
My husband was interested in writing so he explored a career in news reporting for our local paper. He was a beat reporter when we got married so I got to go to one of their wild drinking parties, meet his coworkers. When he left the career for geology, he said he didn't like the people, geologists were a lot more fun.
I have to agree, when I took my reporter class last spring, I decided the regulars there were perfect for CIA profiling. I can see why my husband wanted to leave the business. I am glad he did.
Part of the 'press is religiously illiterate' effect is going to be due to manners. In lots of families it is considered really rude to talk about religion at all, perhaps reporters are reflecting that innate cultural bias.
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» RE: 3. The press is religiously illiterate
Posted by: paulaH
» RE: 3. The press is religiously illiterate
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Killjoys
Posted by: Eric.Arthur.Blair
» RE: 3. The press is religiously illiterate
Posted by: willymack
» RE: 3. The press is religiously illiterate
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ForestDinizen on Oct 12, 2009 4:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Oct 12, 2009 4:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth."
Being a three-decades-long witness to these clowns distorting or ignoring the tenets of Christianity and the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, to see them being exposed (by themselves! is loads of fun to watch.
They have supplied us with decades of unintentional comedy. I'm sure gonna miss them when they're gone - as gone they soon will be.
TERRORIST BOMBS MOON!
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
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» New Bible will justify all
Posted by: clthompson
» RE: They are making their own Bible that matches their twisted theology.
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Purple Girl on Oct 12, 2009 5:07 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who would call Charlie a 'christian' merely because he cited the Bible?
Global destruction and domination is the realm of Satan Worshippers.
Only difference between what is being practiced on C Street and that which was expounded in Death Valley is geographics.
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» RE: Gives new meaning to the Republican call of "Family Values"
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lese Majeste on Oct 12, 2009 5:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Their descendants migrated to the DC area where they today practice their unique brand of eschatology based on lies, thieving, war against the Muslim world and hot sex with hookers and male pages.
Congress found 50 million to investigate whether or not 'Slick Willie' got a BJ from a Jewish temptress but can't seem to find any money to look into it's own tawdry affairs.
And why do so many of them look like used car salesman? The only thing missing from most of those jokers is plaid pants.
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» Just For The Record...
Posted by: Eric.Arthur.Blair
Comments are closed-
Posted by: leafsong1 on Oct 12, 2009 7:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: If titles were copywritable and criminals could profit from their crimes
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: the Christian Right landed at Plymouth Rock in about 1620
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: the Christian Right landed at Plymouth Rock in about 1620
Posted by: Blacktiger
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Birdland on Oct 12, 2009 7:09 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Book Promo-I don't think so
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Book Promo-I don't think so
Posted by: Eric.Arthur.Blair
» RE: Book Promo-I don't think so
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Hiroak on Oct 12, 2009 7:20 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This state will no doubt end up with a Republican Gov. and if we do I hope it is Bill Haslam (Mayor of Knoxville). This isn't an endorsement but a warning that if we have to put a devil in offfice it might as well be one that isn't totally immersed in evil like Zach Wamp.
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» RE: Zach Wamp "Family" member and TN Gongressional rep.
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: vasumurti on Oct 12, 2009 7:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Paul taught that "it is good for a man not to touch a woman," i.e., it is best to be celibate, but because of prevailing immoralities, marriage is acceptable. Divorce is permissible in the case of an unbeliever demanding separation. (I Corinthians 7) Paul repeatedly attacked sexual immorality. "This is God's will--your sanctification, that you keep yourselves from sexual immorality, that each of you learn how to take his own wife in purity and honor, not in lustful passion like the gentiles who have no knowledge of God." (I Thessalonians 4:3-5) Paul told his followers not to associate with sexually immoral people (I Corinthians 5:9-12, 6:15,18). He condemned homosexuality (Romans 1:24-27) and incest (I Corinthians 5:1).
"Make no mistake," warned Paul, "no fornicator or idolater, none who are guilty either of adultery or of homosexual perversion, no thieves or grabbers or drunkards or slanderers or swindlers, will possess the kingdom of God." (I Corinthians 6:9-10 [NEB])
Paul condemned wickedness, immorality, depravity, greed, gossip, slander, insolence, pride (Romans 1:29-30), drunkenness, carousing, debauchery, jealousy (Romans 13:13), sensuality, magic arts, animosities, bad temper, selfishness, dissensions, envy (Galatians 5:19-21; greediness (Ephesians 4:19; Colossians 3:5), foul speech, anger, clamor, abusive language, malice (Ephesians 4:29-32), dishonesty (Colossians 3:13), materialism (I Timothy 6:6-11), conceit, avarice, boasting and treachery. (II Timothy 3:2-4)
Paul told the gentiles to train themselves for godliness, to practice self-control and lead upright, godly lives (Galatians 5:23; I Timothy 4:7; II Timothy 1:7; Titus 2:11-12). He instructed them to ALWAYS pray constantly. (I Thessalonians 5:17)
Paul praised love, joy, peace, kindness, generosity, fidelity and gentleness (Galatians 5:22-23). He told his followers to conduct themselves with humility and gentleness (Ephesians 4:2), to speak to one another in psalms and hymns; to sing heartily and make music to the Lord. (Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16)
Paul wrote further that women should cover their heads while worshiping, and that long hair on males is dishonorable. (I Corinthians 11:5-14) According to Paul, Christian women are to dress modestly and prudently, and are not to be adorned with braided hair, gold or pearls or expensive clothes. (I Timothy 2:9)
My problem really isn't with Christians unable to follow Jesus or Paul, but with the hypocrisy of saying "I believe" and ignoring the rest of what their religion dictates when it suits them.
Why not just be secular, like everyone else?
It's my contention all of us (Christians included!) really live in a secular society. People just pay lip service to religious ideals.
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» RE: Christians are hypocrites
Posted by: Lese Majeste
» RE: Christians are hypocrites
Posted by: Haji54
» Aren't they really Paulists?
Posted by: Eric.Arthur.Blair
» YES! Christians put Paul ahead of Jesus.
Posted by: vasumurti
» RE: Christians are hypocrites Is A Broad Statement
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: FLYING DOOFUS on Oct 12, 2009 8:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: MMMMMMMMMM !! I love juicy sex scandals ! MMMMMMMMM !!
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: MMMMMMMMMM !! I love juicy sex scandals ! MMMMMMMMM !!
Posted by: FLYING DOOFUS
Comments are closed-
Posted by: willymack on Oct 12, 2009 9:03 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People who play by the rules, and are morally upright, are the target of these crooks.
Over the years, we've let them become powerful and DANGEROUS, simply by ignoring them, and hoping for the best.
Has the best happened? Well, has it?
Of more importance, can we set things aright? Can we count on our new administration to do it for us, or do we have to seize the initiative and do it ourselves? Who can we count on for help and sucrease from the wrongs inflicted on us?
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» RE: Who can we count on for help and sucrease from the wrongs inflicted on us?
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: At least it can't be "The Rich"
Posted by: SteveA
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Laffing Garfield on Oct 12, 2009 9:16 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Ever Hear Of John Edwards
Posted by: desidid
» Yup. Breck boy would've been fun to watch but Palin's better.
Posted by: Laffing Garfield
» RE: If I Wanted To Watch Fargo Everyday I'd Buy The Movie
Posted by: desidid
» RE: If I Wanted To Watch Fargo Everyday I'd Buy The Movie
Posted by: Laffing Garfield
» Hang in there cousin Laffing. They're coming back.
Posted by: FLYING DOOFUS
» RE: Hang in there cousin Laffing. They're coming back.
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Crazy H on Oct 12, 2009 9:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember David Koresh & the Waco Whackos? Wives were only allowed to cleave unto David. Polygamy amongst the Mormons? Young girls paired off with elders against their will. (You know, those same Mormons who are "defending marriage" ??)
Lot & his daughters ("they got me so drunk I didn't know who I was doing...") Jacob & Rachel & Bilhah ("Hey, honey ... about your hot new maid-servant ... well, y'see god says I gotta go into her ... not that I want to, but when god says so...") Solomon with 700 wives and 300 concubines. Y'gotta wonder whether old Sol walked with a limp. And those were the HOLY guys.
Man, I gotta get me a new job ... maybe hit up Monster.com for "Patriarch" or something.
(tee hee "under the Son" - I just crack me up)
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Posted by: SteveA on Oct 12, 2009 10:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: websurfer on Oct 12, 2009 11:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now who is behind the rash of sex and corruption scandals in the democrat party - maybe they're Christians too!
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Posted by: Blacktiger on Oct 12, 2009 12:29 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Blacktiger on Oct 12, 2009 4:02 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I certainly cannot see how sex life makes a person a bad governor,senator,congress-person, president.
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Posted by: LightningJoe on Oct 12, 2009 8:00 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Saying that Christ's thoughts and actions had much at all in common with conquerers and human rights offenders is laughable on the face, unless the thread of similarity is just that they were all humans. Jesus in the Bible says very little about Ceasar at all; he clearly enjoins his followers to give Ceasar the respect due a ruler. It doesn't seem evil for someone to say that one should respect the government, and not rebel against it.
Jesus' innocence of rebellion is well documented in the New Testament. The Romans were harsh on real rebellions, of which there were always rumors, but also had a concrete stake in being perceived as fair, by their subject populace. But the Pharisees, who controlled popular opinion, were pressuring Governor Pilate to do the hanging for them, reportedly to avoid the ire of Jesus' followers. Had Pilate caught the smallest thread of rebellious sentiment in Jesus, he would have given in to the pressure from the priests, and it would have been the Romans who crucified Jesus, for insighting rebellion. But the governor publically washed his hands of the matter, giving Jesus to the priests.
Jesus did not seek to change the government in any way. And yet the actions that the "rest" of the Evil Men are known for are all ABOUT rebelling and setting themselves up as the new ruler. Hitler, Stalin and Mao set no examples that Jesus would follow, any more than Ghandi later imitated Ghengis Khan, in accomplishing his own peaceful goals.
Who would advise the supposed followers of Jesus, the good pacifist, to look to the examples of Evil Men, for guidance in their own deliberations? And why? Certainly not to "give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's."
Perhaps more like "Take Ceasar's secular authority away from Ceasar, for your own use."
No wonder the preacher was keeping quiet about it. Some things just sound better, when you don't talk about them much.
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» RE: Please!
Posted by: halg
» RE: Please!
Posted by: vasumurti
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jwgriffith on Oct 12, 2009 1:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Hillary Clinton Was Also In the Family
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE:Hillary has always been and always will be a Repug
Posted by: Purple Girl
» He didn't fail to mention Democrats.
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Hillary Clinton Was Also In the Family-don't think so
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Perhaps You Should Think Again
Posted by: desidid
» Depends on what you mean by "member."
Posted by: dkm
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Sister_Lauren on Oct 12, 2009 2:32 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My observation is the press is religiously illiterate outside of Catholicism and Judaism. Of course if you are Catholic, maintaining ignorance about other religions is an important part of your religion, so it kinda goes without saying.
It is a very interesting observation. I suspect it is done on purpose. Not only do reporters seem religiously illiterate, but proud of it.
For reporters to start having religious understandings, especially of other people's religions, would chip away at their ideal of 'objectivity' an emotional state that looks an awful lot like a lack of conscience from here, in other words a sociopath's point of view.
My husband was interested in writing so he explored a career in news reporting for our local paper. He was a beat reporter when we got married so I got to go to one of their wild drinking parties, meet his coworkers. When he left the career for geology, he said he didn't like the people, geologists were a lot more fun.
I have to agree, when I took my reporter class last spring, I decided the regulars there were perfect for CIA profiling. I can see why my husband wanted to leave the business. I am glad he did.
Part of the 'press is religiously illiterate' effect is going to be due to manners. In lots of families it is considered really rude to talk about religion at all, perhaps reporters are reflecting that innate cultural bias.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: 3. The press is religiously illiterate
Posted by: paulaH
» RE: 3. The press is religiously illiterate
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Killjoys
Posted by: Eric.Arthur.Blair
» RE: 3. The press is religiously illiterate
Posted by: willymack
» RE: 3. The press is religiously illiterate
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ForestDinizen on Oct 12, 2009 4:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: Tom Degan on Oct 12, 2009 4:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth."
Being a three-decades-long witness to these clowns distorting or ignoring the tenets of Christianity and the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, to see them being exposed (by themselves! is loads of fun to watch.
They have supplied us with decades of unintentional comedy. I'm sure gonna miss them when they're gone - as gone they soon will be.
TERRORIST BOMBS MOON!
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
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» New Bible will justify all
Posted by: clthompson
» RE: They are making their own Bible that matches their twisted theology.
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Purple Girl on Oct 12, 2009 5:07 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who would call Charlie a 'christian' merely because he cited the Bible?
Global destruction and domination is the realm of Satan Worshippers.
Only difference between what is being practiced on C Street and that which was expounded in Death Valley is geographics.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Gives new meaning to the Republican call of "Family Values"
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lese Majeste on Oct 12, 2009 5:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Their descendants migrated to the DC area where they today practice their unique brand of eschatology based on lies, thieving, war against the Muslim world and hot sex with hookers and male pages.
Congress found 50 million to investigate whether or not 'Slick Willie' got a BJ from a Jewish temptress but can't seem to find any money to look into it's own tawdry affairs.
And why do so many of them look like used car salesman? The only thing missing from most of those jokers is plaid pants.
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» Just For The Record...
Posted by: Eric.Arthur.Blair
Comments are closed-
Posted by: leafsong1 on Oct 12, 2009 7:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: If titles were copywritable and criminals could profit from their crimes
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: the Christian Right landed at Plymouth Rock in about 1620
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: the Christian Right landed at Plymouth Rock in about 1620
Posted by: Blacktiger
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Birdland on Oct 12, 2009 7:09 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Book Promo-I don't think so
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Book Promo-I don't think so
Posted by: Eric.Arthur.Blair
» RE: Book Promo-I don't think so
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Hiroak on Oct 12, 2009 7:20 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This state will no doubt end up with a Republican Gov. and if we do I hope it is Bill Haslam (Mayor of Knoxville). This isn't an endorsement but a warning that if we have to put a devil in offfice it might as well be one that isn't totally immersed in evil like Zach Wamp.
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» RE: Zach Wamp "Family" member and TN Gongressional rep.
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: vasumurti on Oct 12, 2009 7:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Paul taught that "it is good for a man not to touch a woman," i.e., it is best to be celibate, but because of prevailing immoralities, marriage is acceptable. Divorce is permissible in the case of an unbeliever demanding separation. (I Corinthians 7) Paul repeatedly attacked sexual immorality. "This is God's will--your sanctification, that you keep yourselves from sexual immorality, that each of you learn how to take his own wife in purity and honor, not in lustful passion like the gentiles who have no knowledge of God." (I Thessalonians 4:3-5) Paul told his followers not to associate with sexually immoral people (I Corinthians 5:9-12, 6:15,18). He condemned homosexuality (Romans 1:24-27) and incest (I Corinthians 5:1).
"Make no mistake," warned Paul, "no fornicator or idolater, none who are guilty either of adultery or of homosexual perversion, no thieves or grabbers or drunkards or slanderers or swindlers, will possess the kingdom of God." (I Corinthians 6:9-10 [NEB])
Paul condemned wickedness, immorality, depravity, greed, gossip, slander, insolence, pride (Romans 1:29-30), drunkenness, carousing, debauchery, jealousy (Romans 13:13), sensuality, magic arts, animosities, bad temper, selfishness, dissensions, envy (Galatians 5:19-21; greediness (Ephesians 4:19; Colossians 3:5), foul speech, anger, clamor, abusive language, malice (Ephesians 4:29-32), dishonesty (Colossians 3:13), materialism (I Timothy 6:6-11), conceit, avarice, boasting and treachery. (II Timothy 3:2-4)
Paul told the gentiles to train themselves for godliness, to practice self-control and lead upright, godly lives (Galatians 5:23; I Timothy 4:7; II Timothy 1:7; Titus 2:11-12). He instructed them to ALWAYS pray constantly. (I Thessalonians 5:17)
Paul praised love, joy, peace, kindness, generosity, fidelity and gentleness (Galatians 5:22-23). He told his followers to conduct themselves with humility and gentleness (Ephesians 4:2), to speak to one another in psalms and hymns; to sing heartily and make music to the Lord. (Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16)
Paul wrote further that women should cover their heads while worshiping, and that long hair on males is dishonorable. (I Corinthians 11:5-14) According to Paul, Christian women are to dress modestly and prudently, and are not to be adorned with braided hair, gold or pearls or expensive clothes. (I Timothy 2:9)
My problem really isn't with Christians unable to follow Jesus or Paul, but with the hypocrisy of saying "I believe" and ignoring the rest of what their religion dictates when it suits them.
Why not just be secular, like everyone else?
It's my contention all of us (Christians included!) really live in a secular society. People just pay lip service to religious ideals.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Christians are hypocrites
Posted by: Lese Majeste
» RE: Christians are hypocrites
Posted by: Haji54
» Aren't they really Paulists?
Posted by: Eric.Arthur.Blair
» YES! Christians put Paul ahead of Jesus.
Posted by: vasumurti
» RE: Christians are hypocrites Is A Broad Statement
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: FLYING DOOFUS on Oct 12, 2009 8:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: MMMMMMMMMM !! I love juicy sex scandals ! MMMMMMMMM !!
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: MMMMMMMMMM !! I love juicy sex scandals ! MMMMMMMMM !!
Posted by: FLYING DOOFUS
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Posted by: willymack on Oct 12, 2009 9:03 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People who play by the rules, and are morally upright, are the target of these crooks.
Over the years, we've let them become powerful and DANGEROUS, simply by ignoring them, and hoping for the best.
Has the best happened? Well, has it?
Of more importance, can we set things aright? Can we count on our new administration to do it for us, or do we have to seize the initiative and do it ourselves? Who can we count on for help and sucrease from the wrongs inflicted on us?
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» RE: Who can we count on for help and sucrease from the wrongs inflicted on us?
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: At least it can't be "The Rich"
Posted by: SteveA
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Posted by: Laffing Garfield on Oct 12, 2009 9:16 AM
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» RE: Ever Hear Of John Edwards
Posted by: desidid
» Yup. Breck boy would've been fun to watch but Palin's better.
Posted by: Laffing Garfield
» RE: If I Wanted To Watch Fargo Everyday I'd Buy The Movie
Posted by: desidid
» RE: If I Wanted To Watch Fargo Everyday I'd Buy The Movie
Posted by: Laffing Garfield
» Hang in there cousin Laffing. They're coming back.
Posted by: FLYING DOOFUS
» RE: Hang in there cousin Laffing. They're coming back.
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: Crazy H on Oct 12, 2009 9:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember David Koresh & the Waco Whackos? Wives were only allowed to cleave unto David. Polygamy amongst the Mormons? Young girls paired off with elders against their will. (You know, those same Mormons who are "defending marriage" ??)
Lot & his daughters ("they got me so drunk I didn't know who I was doing...") Jacob & Rachel & Bilhah ("Hey, honey ... about your hot new maid-servant ... well, y'see god says I gotta go into her ... not that I want to, but when god says so...") Solomon with 700 wives and 300 concubines. Y'gotta wonder whether old Sol walked with a limp. And those were the HOLY guys.
Man, I gotta get me a new job ... maybe hit up Monster.com for "Patriarch" or something.
(tee hee "under the Son" - I just crack me up)
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Posted by: SteveA on Oct 12, 2009 10:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: websurfer on Oct 12, 2009 11:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now who is behind the rash of sex and corruption scandals in the democrat party - maybe they're Christians too!
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Posted by: Blacktiger on Oct 12, 2009 12:29 PM
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Posted by: Blacktiger on Oct 12, 2009 4:02 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I certainly cannot see how sex life makes a person a bad governor,senator,congress-person, president.
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Posted by: LightningJoe on Oct 12, 2009 8:00 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Saying that Christ's thoughts and actions had much at all in common with conquerers and human rights offenders is laughable on the face, unless the thread of similarity is just that they were all humans. Jesus in the Bible says very little about Ceasar at all; he clearly enjoins his followers to give Ceasar the respect due a ruler. It doesn't seem evil for someone to say that one should respect the government, and not rebel against it.
Jesus' innocence of rebellion is well documented in the New Testament. The Romans were harsh on real rebellions, of which there were always rumors, but also had a concrete stake in being perceived as fair, by their subject populace. But the Pharisees, who controlled popular opinion, were pressuring Governor Pilate to do the hanging for them, reportedly to avoid the ire of Jesus' followers. Had Pilate caught the smallest thread of rebellious sentiment in Jesus, he would have given in to the pressure from the priests, and it would have been the Romans who crucified Jesus, for insighting rebellion. But the governor publically washed his hands of the matter, giving Jesus to the priests.
Jesus did not seek to change the government in any way. And yet the actions that the "rest" of the Evil Men are known for are all ABOUT rebelling and setting themselves up as the new ruler. Hitler, Stalin and Mao set no examples that Jesus would follow, any more than Ghandi later imitated Ghengis Khan, in accomplishing his own peaceful goals.
Who would advise the supposed followers of Jesus, the good pacifist, to look to the examples of Evil Men, for guidance in their own deliberations? And why? Certainly not to "give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's."
Perhaps more like "Take Ceasar's secular authority away from Ceasar, for your own use."
No wonder the preacher was keeping quiet about it. Some things just sound better, when you don't talk about them much.
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» RE: Please!
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» RE: Please!
Posted by: vasumurti
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