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5 Reasons the Baucus Health Bill Fails the Basics

The Baucus health care proposal is a terrible bill. And the Senate's foremost health care expert is having none of it.
September 18, 2009  |  
 
 
 
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On a conference call with reporters on Tuesday, Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV, D-W.V., laid out the reasons why he will vote against the health care reform proposal released by Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., on Wednesday. The bill requires significant changes before it will win his vote, Rockefeller said.

Rockefeller's defiance is significant because he chairs the Senate Finance's health subcommittee and was locked out of negotiations on the bill when Baucus threw all his eggs in the basket of imaginary bipartisanship by appointing a "Gang of Six" -- three uncompromising Republicans and two malleable Democrats (in addition to himself) -- to hammer out the legislation, which contains no public health insurance plan but does contain a number of other provisions that Rockefeller finds troubling.

"[T]here's no way that I can vote for the Senate [Finance] package for a lot of reasons and, obviously, the lack of a public option is one of them," Rockefeller told reporters -- even if it meant Baucus' proposal never made it out of the committee to face a vote by the full Senate.

"I'm not going to worry about is it coming out of the committee or is it not coming out of the committee," Rockefeller said. "I'm going to vote based upon what I feel."

Rockefeller is known in the Senate as a health care expert; on the conference call, Roger Hickey, of the Campaign for America's Future, referred to Rockefeller as the most knowledgeable person in the Senate on the topic now that Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., has died.

A stalwart proponent of the public health insurance option featured in the other health-reform bills currently before Congress, Rockefeller credited his overall position on health care to his work as a Vista volunteer in the 1960s. Vista was a Peace Corps-style program that focused on impoverished areas of the United States.

Asked about President Barack Obama's desire to get some kind of health care plan passed, and pressure by the administration to pass something -- anything -- Rockefeller told reporters, "It does represent a worry of mine … that if it becomes just a question of passing something so that you can say you did health care reform, then you really didn't do what we have an historic opportunity [to do]. That I find very distressing."

He then deferred to Yale professor Jacob Hacker, who was brought onto the call by Rockefeller to serve as an expert.

"It's been said that we shouldn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good," Hacker said, "but I would also say that we shouldn't let the terrible be the ally of the expedient."

As laid out by Rockefeller, the Baucus proposal appears to be quite terrible. The bill will goes before the full committee next week for mark-up, when senators on the committee will be allowed to offer amendments to the legislation.

"I will have many, many, many amendments," Rockefeller said, including one for a public option.

Here is a summary of the reasons Rockefeller gave for his promise to vote against the Baucus bill, unless significant changes are made:

1. No public option. Rockefeller urged that reporters not buy into the conventional wisdom that health care reform cannot pass if a public option is included in the final bill.

"It's amazing what happens when it comes down to crunch time -- when people really have to go on record," he said. Everything we've seen up until now, he explained, is posturing. "Things can shift," he said.

Without a public health insurance plan, Rockefeller says, private insurers will face no meaningful competition, which is necessary for driving down costs.

"Real competition comes from people who don't have to make any profit and they don't have to have any fancy marble columns at the entrance to their building," he explained. (Or pay their CEOs $24 million a year, as Aetna does.)


Adele M. Stan AlterNet's Washington bureau chief.
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Comments are closed-

Republicans finally found a tax increase they can get behind
Posted by: ohb0b on Sep 18, 2009 12:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The working class pays it!

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What a scam!
Posted by: itsallbs on Sep 18, 2009 12:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why are we continuously bombarded with these healthcare industry welfare proposals?

Single payer ( HR 676) is the only true reform bill out there. The only reason this bill is rejected is because our polititians, who it seems cannot live on the salaries we the people provide them, would no longer receive the bribes this industry pays to them. Make no mistake, these are nothing less than bribes. Bribery is a crime. Those who receive these bribes should be prosecuted.

At the end of the Gettysburg address, President Lincoln said that"that government, of the people, by the people and for the people shall not perish from the earth."

He would be saddened to see that government of the corporation, by the corporation and for the corporation has replaced the people as the true owners of our country. The corporate world, be it insurance, healthcare, pharmaceuticals, energy, et al, has the best government it can buy. It relies on the sheeple to swallow the koolaid they provide to forward their agenda.

They use lies, misinformation and their elected agents to convince you chicken littles that the sky will fall unless you follow them like the rodents followed the Pied Piper. They bend you over the table and screw you in the rear and you say thank you, give me more.

Wake up folks. Spit out the koolaid and unmask the devil. This is for your own good, something these crooks have no interest in.

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» RE: What a scam! Posted by: AJAXXXXX
» RE: What a scam! Posted by: itsallbs
» RE: What a scam! Posted by: eddio333
» Sen. BUTT KISS Posted by: horton

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The Baucus Report
Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 18, 2009 1:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Count on this: There will be a nice-paying, cushy job for Max Baucus at some insurance lobbying firm - or the Republican National Committee - next time 'round when he is defeated for reelection as surely he will be - as surely he must be..

It's people like poor old Max that are the walking, talking personifications of why I left the Democratic party over a decade ago. They have forgotten that they are (or were) the party of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Pity.

Still MORE Right Wing Lunacy

Tom Degan, Goshen, NY

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» Where do I sent my money Posted by: tatamchwh

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Dems and liberals trippin over their own dicks again
Posted by: democracynowiniraq on Sep 18, 2009 1:33 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fun to watch! All that Obama this, Obama that, "we're gonna change America! we're gonna change the world" B.S. has come home to roost. At least you Alterneters are principled and I can respect that even if I don't agree. Obama, on the other hand, is even worse than Clinton when it comes to talking out of both sides of his mouth-not just on healthcare, but on ANYTHING

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» Obama's a "he", not a "we" Posted by: hurricane hugo

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To kill all 'reform'
Posted by: LeonBNJ on Sep 18, 2009 3:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To me most of the various proposed bills for health care access reform all have one goal - to kill off all reform, to keep the current system that benefits the profits and over the top executive salaries of private insurance companies.
We need to destroy the massive corporate lobbying corruption that is behind the collaspe of necessary replacement of our health care system with a more humane one with greater involvement of our Federal government.

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"The Morality Card"
Posted by: drricklippin on Sep 18, 2009 4:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A fair and moral nation,at the very least, needs a public option.

This is not,as I and others have been accused of,"playing the morality card". This isn't some card game

This is about whether our nation chooses to be a moral nation. This is about human lives.

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa

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» RE: "The Morality Card" Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: "The Morality Card" Posted by: fapper

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Check the loophole in the high risk pool
Posted by: beachcomberT on Sep 18, 2009 4:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the first few pages of the Baucus "mark" text I found this huge loophole: A high-risk pool is supposed to provide interim coverage to uninsureds with pre-existing conditions. But you have to be uninsured for at least 6 months before you can get coverage from the high risk pool. Makes absolutely no sense -- except as a mechanism for boosting the profits of insurance companies. What an insult to the medically needy of America.

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Congratulations!
Posted by: ankhet on Sep 18, 2009 4:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This insurance(evasion) plan so bad, it doesn't even get close to wrong.

How can a country screw up so badly on something the rest of the civilized world is handling smoothly?

It's hard to keep watching this train wreck happening. I've never seen anything so insane in my life.

When are the people gonna rebel? Or are they just going to hunch their shoulders and work harder, like Boxer in "Animal Farm"? You know how he was rewarded, don't you?

What's happening proves my point that US domestic economy has become an extractive industry - like mining. The citizen is just another source of wealth. It may not amount to much from any particular individual (except maybe his livelihood, health or children) but it adds up when they screw everybody as massively as this. The claim that "the economy is doing well" or "the economy is showing a profit", just means Wall Street's bankers and insurance companies have secured another way to suck the last few pennies out of your pockets.

This is breath-takingly, shockingly atrocious. I hope you find a way to restore sanity and decency soon.

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Tax 'em
Posted by: drosera on Sep 18, 2009 5:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why not keep our system of private insurance (with regulations requiring that they will behave honorably) and tax the hell out of their profits, giving those taxes receipts back to the poor to buy health insurance? A ninety-five percent tax rate would pretty much make them nonprofits. It's a half step, but would provide a means to pay for insuring all of those without insurance. Maybe small tax breaks could be instituted to mandate efficiencies in such an operation so insurance company bureaucracies could shrink. Just a thought.

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» RE: Tax 'em Posted by: Beadmaster

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We're playing right into their hand
Posted by: warrior woman on Sep 18, 2009 5:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's not forget that a "public option" that we're soooo wanting as a forbidden fruit, is not going to help a damn one of us!

Please refresh yourselves with this article by single payor advocate, Kip Sullivan, in "Bait and Switch- How the "Public Option" Was Sold"
Monday 20 July 2009
by: Kip Sullivan |

http://www.pnhp.org/blog/2009/07/20/bait-
and-switch-how-the-%E2%80%9Cpublic-
option%E2%80%9D-was-sold/

"According to the Congressional Budget Office, the "public option" proposed in the House "tri-committee" bill might insure 10 million people and would leave 16 to 17 million people uninsured. The "public option" proposed by the Senate HELP committee, again according to the Congressional Budget Office, is unlikely to insure anyone and would hence leave 33 to 34 million uninsured. The CBO said its estimate of 10 million for the House bill was highly uncertain, which is not surprising given how vaguely the House legislation describes the "public option."

So forget what's best for us, single payer. We're playing right into their hand calling for a plan that will benefit no one!

THe five critical pieces to single payer must be, according to Sullivan:

"The PO had to be pre-populated with tens of millions of people, that is, it had to begin like Medicare did representing a large pool of people the day it commenced operations (Hacker proposed shifting all or most uninsured people as well as Medicaid and SCHIP enrollees into his public program);
• Subsidies to individuals to buy insurance would be substantial, and only PO enrollees could get subsidies (people who chose to buy insurance from insurance companies could not get subsidies);
• The PO and its subsidies had to be available to all nonelderly Americans (not just the uninsured and employees of small employers);
• The PO had to be given authority to use Medicare's provider reimbursement rates; and
• The insurance industry had to be required to offer the same minimum level of benefits the PO had to offer."

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The bill is great for those who have bought Baucus et al
Posted by: MeyravLevine on Sep 18, 2009 5:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Baucus the corporate whore works for the following special interest groups. The money paid to Baucus is listed by Opensecrets:

Top 5 contributors to Baucus
Altria Group $108,453
Schering-Plough Corp $101,200
Amgen Inc $65,250
Blue Cross/Blue Shield $65,100
New York Life Insurance $64,150

Top 5 industry contributors to Baucus:
Securities & Investment $982,250
Health Professionals $802,141
Pharmaceuticals/Health Products $762,813
Lawyers/Law Firms $761,104
Insurance $730,075

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» pssst...this is what fascism is. Posted by: rafaeltoral

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This bill is a handout to insurance companies
Posted by: austex_chris on Sep 18, 2009 6:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I still have a hard time believing this is the bill that a democrat came out with. I mean, it is not even in the ballpark.

This is so bad that I have to try hard not to physically scream. The health insurance industry has made out like bandits in all of this. Over the last few weeks check our their stock prices, most are up over 6%.

This bill should be voted for by Republicans, because it essentially kills any chance of us getting real healthcare for 20 years at least. They're too dumb to vote for this bill but if they want the status quo, this is the bill for them!

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BiPartisan my ass!...
Posted by: peacelf on Sep 18, 2009 7:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a single payer advocate for many years, since Nader's run in 2000. There's no other system that will solve the problems americans face on health issues, improve the quality of life for all citizens and be fair. Most Dems know this and a few Republicans, too.

Rest assured, that's why americans will eventually have a single payer Medicare-for-all system, if not now, sometime in the near future. If for some crazy reason the Baucus plan is passed, it will only need a few years to prove that the health insurance industry is corrupt and hell-bent greedy before it will need reforming again.

Peace

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It's already a living hell out here in Boston with mandatory care.
Posted by: LStinson1988 on Sep 18, 2009 8:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The already poor are getting poorer and not covered while the well to do are getting richer with it. Prepare to get a taste of Boston once this plan passes.

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H.R. 676
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Sep 18, 2009 8:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's a comprehensive single-payer plan that is worthy of serious consideration. It was introduced in the House on January 24, 2007 and has died there. Baucus, Obama and all of the bagmen for corporate capitalism dba USA, Inc. have nothing to offer to anyone and are deserving of no consideration. We don't need a "Bill," we need universal health care that touches everyone and negates spiraling health costs that are disingenuous and criminal in scope and purpose. Is there a liberal, progressive or Democrat left in this penal colony? Kucinich is here, but............he's "off the table." Bye bye Miss American pie!

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Democrats finally have been infected by Republican venality
Posted by: Outspokengrandmother on Sep 18, 2009 8:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My rule of thumb is if the Republicans like it, it's bad for the people, the country and the world. I find it sad that I'm increasingly having to apply that standard to Democrats as well.... I guess you don't make it to Washington if you really want to work for the good of the people (Kucinich and Kennedy excepted). Max Baucus is a Republican trying to call himself a Democrat to get elected ... and much, much worse than the Clintons and Obama... who would have been to the right of liberal Republicans back in the day when we actually had a Democratic Party. Pathetic.

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The problem is profit
Posted by: improperly_sedated on Sep 18, 2009 9:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Profit is the act of skimming money off the top of an enterprise and pocketing it. Profit is not the same thing as making money. Profit is money lost to the enterprise in question.

Profit taken by a corporation is taken on behalf of the shareholders. The Senators who serve corporate executives are not the problem, nor are the executives themselves. If they are removed, they will be replaced.

The people responsible are the shareholders. All of this is done on behalf of the shareholders.

The profits of a medical corporation are the health care budgets of its customers that have been diverted to the shareholders while those customers (or "patients" if you prefer) are left to wither and die.

The shareholders are recipients of blood money, and they will find executives and politicians who are willing to deliver it, no matter how many times these servants are replaced.

You may say: "I have some money in stocks. I own shares of a profitable medical corporation. Surely you don't mean that I am responsible for this vast institution of extortion?" Yes, I do. Yes, you are. Unless a shareholder in one of these companies spends their dividend check on medical charity, they are making money off of the deliberate destruction of other people's health and wealth.

Tens of thousands die each year in the service of these dividend checks. The broken survivors are more numerous. The quietly impoverished, more numerous still.

The blood is on the shareholders' hands far more than the hands of some Senator from a small, easily bribed state.

Know your enemy.

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A ticking timebomb on health care ready to blow this country up !
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 18, 2009 9:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People who warned against this madness were shouted down. LStinson, thanks for the heads up from Boston. I'm glad I don't live in MA but if this goes national, the Democrats will go down in flames and stay that way. We may be stuck with another decade or two of Republicans but this is the eternal price to pay for getting stuck with fake opposition. Baucus might as well have been honest and switched to Republican. I think Montana may be ready to shut down that asshole in his next election even if it means getting a Republican senator in his place.

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Recent health care programs are NOT insurance
Posted by: billwald on Sep 18, 2009 12:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are a pre-paid health care service, not insurance.

They don't meet any insurance principles. "Major medical insurance" back in the '40's and '50's was insurance because it conformed to the same principles as fire, auto, and life insurance.

Pre-existing conditions . . . anyone our there ever try buying fire insurance while their house was burning?

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This is why I don't vote.
Posted by: Augustus_818 on Sep 18, 2009 9:47 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Baucus' plan is simply put a gun to the head of the people and scream "Give me your MONEY!". And this is exactly why I was against this from the start. They bring out the carrot of "public option". Then they hit with the stick of what they were really wanting all along. Just in time to make sure it get's through at the last possible moment, so no one has time to complain, much less do anything about it.

And that's why I don't give my consent to psychopathic con-artists and sadistic assholes.

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it would only take 2 other Dem senators to kill Baucus bill in committee
Posted by: whealeydj on Sep 18, 2009 10:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
since there are 14 Democrats and 10 Republicans. Baucus is a bad bill because it coerces middle class into buying health insurance without providing public option that could undercut the health insurance corporations. moreover it taxes the 'generous' plans. if your Democratic senator is on Finance committee contact RIGHT NOW saying this is a make or break moment to kill Baucus plan in committee. tell them "I will vote for a Democratic primary opponent and a 3rd party general election opponent if you enable the Baucus bill to move forward". Tell your house member the same thing if he is a wishy washy corrupt Blue Dog: "Which side are you on? the inusurance company or the citizen? If you don't vote for the minimum of a public option I cant vote for you." Dean and the PDA should field primary opponents for every member of the Blue Dog coalition and the Green Party should target Blue Dogs to provide a general election option

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The **Bogus** health care bill
Posted by: Don on Sep 18, 2009 10:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Might just as well call it what it is.

"Baucus" already sounds pretty close.

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Kerry, Wyden, Schumer, stabenow, cantwell, nelson FL,
Posted by: whealeydj on Sep 18, 2009 10:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Carper, Menendez, lincoln AR are Dem members of Senate Finance comm in addition to Conrad and bingamon CONTACT TODAY IF THEY ARE YOUR SENATOR.

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Absolutely Execrable
Posted by: jooljetkmae on Sep 20, 2009 11:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The mandate to either buy insurance or pay a "fine", which is in reality a highly regressive tax on the uninsured, who happen to be that way because they are poor in the first place. So if you're uninsured you must either buy a private insurance plan with a highly regressive premium, or be punished with a highly regressive tax. Great.

If it's broke and the proposal to fix it will make it worse, then you might as well not try to fix it at all.

Careful what you wish. Most people wanted "health care reform" and now we're getting it Baucus-Obama style.

I hope this bill doesn't get passed.

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EVEN R.E.M. WAS SCAMMED BY OBAMA
Posted by: smf1403 on Sep 21, 2009 11:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
PEOPLE:

THE PUBLIC OPTION IS B.S. PLAIN & SIMPLE!!

THE DEMOCRATS (EXCEPT FOR DENNIS KUCINICH) ARE TRYING TO BRAINWASH US INTO BELIEVING THIS IS WHAT WE WANT. EVEN R.E.M. DID A COMMERCIAL FOR IT AND OBAMA! DO YOUR FRICKIN HOMEWORK BEFORE YOU JUMP ON THE OBAMA BANDWAGON!

WE WANT WHAT OBAMA AND ALL OF CONGRESS HAS --SINGLE-PAYER MEDICARE FOR ALL!!

NO OTHER PLAN, NO MATTER HOW MUCH OBAMA OR BAUCUS OR ROCKEFELLER TRY TO CONFUSE THE PEOPLE, WILL SUFFICE!!

LISTEN TO DENNIS KUCINICH!! HE IS GETTING FED UP WITH ALL THE RHETORIC AND B.S. FROM THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY TOO! SINGLE-PAYER MEDICARE FOR ALL REMOVES THE INSURANCE COMPANIES (THE MIDDLE-MAN). IT IS COST-EFFECTIVE AND IT CERTAINLY HAS WORKED FOR OBAMA AND CONGRESS!!

OBAMA'S PLAN MANDATES ALL PEOPLE TO BUY INSURANCE (THAT DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY TO BEGIN WITH). IT IS SOCIALISM FOR THE INSURANCE COMPANIES. THE ELITIST, RICH FOLKS (YES, OBAMA, TOO) TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER!!

SINGLE-PAYER IS THE ONLY OPTION!!!!

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The senator from West Virginia.
Posted by: the director on Sep 21, 2009 8:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The comment that Senator Rockefeller is the most knowledgeable Senator since Ted Kennedy died, did Roger Hickey really say that.

The Rockefeller family has polluted our air and water selling our own natural resources back to us and they know about "health care." They know about causing the need for health care. The Rockefeller Vaccine for Yellow Fever is the cause of the inordinately high rates of Hep C and liver failure among US Vietnam Vets.

The solution for our health is food and water
without chemicals.
Cancer is cause by chemicals, as are all
of our rapidly increasing health issues.
Linus Pauling said that our modern diseases are a result of mineral deficiencies.
Those deficiencies have been caused by the
family of this fine Senator from West Virginia
who has made the coal companies clean up their pollution and the harm done to the children of the fine people of West Virginia?

Our health is our responsibility, our food, water and air is the responsibility of our
Government. How do we pay for health care, we make those who caused ill health to pay for our care with the profits they made making us sick. Yes corporate America and their stock holders.

Senator Rockefeller may be a fine man but his name is poison to everyone who takes a breath,
WE only have one air, and only one water, we
live on one planet not owned by any corporation.

We spend the money, and when we don't buy corporate products then we may see the moral
change we the people expect from our nation.

the Director

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Max Baucus
Posted by: osd on Sep 24, 2009 6:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is truly one of the bought and paid for corporate minions. Being able to give so much money into ones re-election fund is just legal bribery. Especially when you get to keep any money that is left in the fund when you leave office. They can say all they want but it is Bribery on the Grandiose of scales. They are just corporate rats holding office and yes, it is a conflict of interest. Those who do it, are just lying corporate dogs.

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health bill by blackpool hotels
Posted by: Blackpool Hotels on Oct 11, 2009 1:35 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This story is very informative and very well written by Blackpool Hotels.

britannia hotel
hotels in blackpool
Britannia Hotels
norbreck castle hotel
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Republicans finally found a tax increase they can get behind
Posted by: ohb0b on Sep 18, 2009 12:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The working class pays it!

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What a scam!
Posted by: itsallbs on Sep 18, 2009 12:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why are we continuously bombarded with these healthcare industry welfare proposals?

Single payer ( HR 676) is the only true reform bill out there. The only reason this bill is rejected is because our polititians, who it seems cannot live on the salaries we the people provide them, would no longer receive the bribes this industry pays to them. Make no mistake, these are nothing less than bribes. Bribery is a crime. Those who receive these bribes should be prosecuted.

At the end of the Gettysburg address, President Lincoln said that"that government, of the people, by the people and for the people shall not perish from the earth."

He would be saddened to see that government of the corporation, by the corporation and for the corporation has replaced the people as the true owners of our country. The corporate world, be it insurance, healthcare, pharmaceuticals, energy, et al, has the best government it can buy. It relies on the sheeple to swallow the koolaid they provide to forward their agenda.

They use lies, misinformation and their elected agents to convince you chicken littles that the sky will fall unless you follow them like the rodents followed the Pied Piper. They bend you over the table and screw you in the rear and you say thank you, give me more.

Wake up folks. Spit out the koolaid and unmask the devil. This is for your own good, something these crooks have no interest in.

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» RE: What a scam! Posted by: AJAXXXXX
» RE: What a scam! Posted by: itsallbs
» RE: What a scam! Posted by: eddio333
» Sen. BUTT KISS Posted by: horton

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The Baucus Report
Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 18, 2009 1:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Count on this: There will be a nice-paying, cushy job for Max Baucus at some insurance lobbying firm - or the Republican National Committee - next time 'round when he is defeated for reelection as surely he will be - as surely he must be..

It's people like poor old Max that are the walking, talking personifications of why I left the Democratic party over a decade ago. They have forgotten that they are (or were) the party of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Pity.

Still MORE Right Wing Lunacy

Tom Degan, Goshen, NY

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» Where do I sent my money Posted by: tatamchwh

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Dems and liberals trippin over their own dicks again
Posted by: democracynowiniraq on Sep 18, 2009 1:33 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fun to watch! All that Obama this, Obama that, "we're gonna change America! we're gonna change the world" B.S. has come home to roost. At least you Alterneters are principled and I can respect that even if I don't agree. Obama, on the other hand, is even worse than Clinton when it comes to talking out of both sides of his mouth-not just on healthcare, but on ANYTHING

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» Obama's a "he", not a "we" Posted by: hurricane hugo

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To kill all 'reform'
Posted by: LeonBNJ on Sep 18, 2009 3:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To me most of the various proposed bills for health care access reform all have one goal - to kill off all reform, to keep the current system that benefits the profits and over the top executive salaries of private insurance companies.
We need to destroy the massive corporate lobbying corruption that is behind the collaspe of necessary replacement of our health care system with a more humane one with greater involvement of our Federal government.

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"The Morality Card"
Posted by: drricklippin on Sep 18, 2009 4:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A fair and moral nation,at the very least, needs a public option.

This is not,as I and others have been accused of,"playing the morality card". This isn't some card game

This is about whether our nation chooses to be a moral nation. This is about human lives.

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa

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» RE: "The Morality Card" Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: "The Morality Card" Posted by: fapper

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Check the loophole in the high risk pool
Posted by: beachcomberT on Sep 18, 2009 4:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the first few pages of the Baucus "mark" text I found this huge loophole: A high-risk pool is supposed to provide interim coverage to uninsureds with pre-existing conditions. But you have to be uninsured for at least 6 months before you can get coverage from the high risk pool. Makes absolutely no sense -- except as a mechanism for boosting the profits of insurance companies. What an insult to the medically needy of America.

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Congratulations!
Posted by: ankhet on Sep 18, 2009 4:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This insurance(evasion) plan so bad, it doesn't even get close to wrong.

How can a country screw up so badly on something the rest of the civilized world is handling smoothly?

It's hard to keep watching this train wreck happening. I've never seen anything so insane in my life.

When are the people gonna rebel? Or are they just going to hunch their shoulders and work harder, like Boxer in "Animal Farm"? You know how he was rewarded, don't you?

What's happening proves my point that US domestic economy has become an extractive industry - like mining. The citizen is just another source of wealth. It may not amount to much from any particular individual (except maybe his livelihood, health or children) but it adds up when they screw everybody as massively as this. The claim that "the economy is doing well" or "the economy is showing a profit", just means Wall Street's bankers and insurance companies have secured another way to suck the last few pennies out of your pockets.

This is breath-takingly, shockingly atrocious. I hope you find a way to restore sanity and decency soon.

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Tax 'em
Posted by: drosera on Sep 18, 2009 5:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why not keep our system of private insurance (with regulations requiring that they will behave honorably) and tax the hell out of their profits, giving those taxes receipts back to the poor to buy health insurance? A ninety-five percent tax rate would pretty much make them nonprofits. It's a half step, but would provide a means to pay for insuring all of those without insurance. Maybe small tax breaks could be instituted to mandate efficiencies in such an operation so insurance company bureaucracies could shrink. Just a thought.

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» RE: Tax 'em Posted by: Beadmaster

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We're playing right into their hand
Posted by: warrior woman on Sep 18, 2009 5:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's not forget that a "public option" that we're soooo wanting as a forbidden fruit, is not going to help a damn one of us!

Please refresh yourselves with this article by single payor advocate, Kip Sullivan, in "Bait and Switch- How the "Public Option" Was Sold"
Monday 20 July 2009
by: Kip Sullivan |

http://www.pnhp.org/blog/2009/07/20/bait-
and-switch-how-the-%E2%80%9Cpublic-
option%E2%80%9D-was-sold/

"According to the Congressional Budget Office, the "public option" proposed in the House "tri-committee" bill might insure 10 million people and would leave 16 to 17 million people uninsured. The "public option" proposed by the Senate HELP committee, again according to the Congressional Budget Office, is unlikely to insure anyone and would hence leave 33 to 34 million uninsured. The CBO said its estimate of 10 million for the House bill was highly uncertain, which is not surprising given how vaguely the House legislation describes the "public option."

So forget what's best for us, single payer. We're playing right into their hand calling for a plan that will benefit no one!

THe five critical pieces to single payer must be, according to Sullivan:

"The PO had to be pre-populated with tens of millions of people, that is, it had to begin like Medicare did representing a large pool of people the day it commenced operations (Hacker proposed shifting all or most uninsured people as well as Medicaid and SCHIP enrollees into his public program);
• Subsidies to individuals to buy insurance would be substantial, and only PO enrollees could get subsidies (people who chose to buy insurance from insurance companies could not get subsidies);
• The PO and its subsidies had to be available to all nonelderly Americans (not just the uninsured and employees of small employers);
• The PO had to be given authority to use Medicare's provider reimbursement rates; and
• The insurance industry had to be required to offer the same minimum level of benefits the PO had to offer."

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The bill is great for those who have bought Baucus et al
Posted by: MeyravLevine on Sep 18, 2009 5:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Baucus the corporate whore works for the following special interest groups. The money paid to Baucus is listed by Opensecrets:

Top 5 contributors to Baucus
Altria Group $108,453
Schering-Plough Corp $101,200
Amgen Inc $65,250
Blue Cross/Blue Shield $65,100
New York Life Insurance $64,150

Top 5 industry contributors to Baucus:
Securities & Investment $982,250
Health Professionals $802,141
Pharmaceuticals/Health Products $762,813
Lawyers/Law Firms $761,104
Insurance $730,075

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» pssst...this is what fascism is. Posted by: rafaeltoral

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This bill is a handout to insurance companies
Posted by: austex_chris on Sep 18, 2009 6:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I still have a hard time believing this is the bill that a democrat came out with. I mean, it is not even in the ballpark.

This is so bad that I have to try hard not to physically scream. The health insurance industry has made out like bandits in all of this. Over the last few weeks check our their stock prices, most are up over 6%.

This bill should be voted for by Republicans, because it essentially kills any chance of us getting real healthcare for 20 years at least. They're too dumb to vote for this bill but if they want the status quo, this is the bill for them!

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BiPartisan my ass!...
Posted by: peacelf on Sep 18, 2009 7:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a single payer advocate for many years, since Nader's run in 2000. There's no other system that will solve the problems americans face on health issues, improve the quality of life for all citizens and be fair. Most Dems know this and a few Republicans, too.

Rest assured, that's why americans will eventually have a single payer Medicare-for-all system, if not now, sometime in the near future. If for some crazy reason the Baucus plan is passed, it will only need a few years to prove that the health insurance industry is corrupt and hell-bent greedy before it will need reforming again.

Peace

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It's already a living hell out here in Boston with mandatory care.
Posted by: LStinson1988 on Sep 18, 2009 8:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The already poor are getting poorer and not covered while the well to do are getting richer with it. Prepare to get a taste of Boston once this plan passes.

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H.R. 676
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Sep 18, 2009 8:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's a comprehensive single-payer plan that is worthy of serious consideration. It was introduced in the House on January 24, 2007 and has died there. Baucus, Obama and all of the bagmen for corporate capitalism dba USA, Inc. have nothing to offer to anyone and are deserving of no consideration. We don't need a "Bill," we need universal health care that touches everyone and negates spiraling health costs that are disingenuous and criminal in scope and purpose. Is there a liberal, progressive or Democrat left in this penal colony? Kucinich is here, but............he's "off the table." Bye bye Miss American pie!

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Democrats finally have been infected by Republican venality
Posted by: Outspokengrandmother on Sep 18, 2009 8:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My rule of thumb is if the Republicans like it, it's bad for the people, the country and the world. I find it sad that I'm increasingly having to apply that standard to Democrats as well.... I guess you don't make it to Washington if you really want to work for the good of the people (Kucinich and Kennedy excepted). Max Baucus is a Republican trying to call himself a Democrat to get elected ... and much, much worse than the Clintons and Obama... who would have been to the right of liberal Republicans back in the day when we actually had a Democratic Party. Pathetic.

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The problem is profit
Posted by: improperly_sedated on Sep 18, 2009 9:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Profit is the act of skimming money off the top of an enterprise and pocketing it. Profit is not the same thing as making money. Profit is money lost to the enterprise in question.

Profit taken by a corporation is taken on behalf of the shareholders. The Senators who serve corporate executives are not the problem, nor are the executives themselves. If they are removed, they will be replaced.

The people responsible are the shareholders. All of this is done on behalf of the shareholders.

The profits of a medical corporation are the health care budgets of its customers that have been diverted to the shareholders while those customers (or "patients" if you prefer) are left to wither and die.

The shareholders are recipients of blood money, and they will find executives and politicians who are willing to deliver it, no matter how many times these servants are replaced.

You may say: "I have some money in stocks. I own shares of a profitable medical corporation. Surely you don't mean that I am responsible for this vast institution of extortion?" Yes, I do. Yes, you are. Unless a shareholder in one of these companies spends their dividend check on medical charity, they are making money off of the deliberate destruction of other people's health and wealth.

Tens of thousands die each year in the service of these dividend checks. The broken survivors are more numerous. The quietly impoverished, more numerous still.

The blood is on the shareholders' hands far more than the hands of some Senator from a small, easily bribed state.

Know your enemy.

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A ticking timebomb on health care ready to blow this country up !
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 18, 2009 9:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People who warned against this madness were shouted down. LStinson, thanks for the heads up from Boston. I'm glad I don't live in MA but if this goes national, the Democrats will go down in flames and stay that way. We may be stuck with another decade or two of Republicans but this is the eternal price to pay for getting stuck with fake opposition. Baucus might as well have been honest and switched to Republican. I think Montana may be ready to shut down that asshole in his next election even if it means getting a Republican senator in his place.

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Recent health care programs are NOT insurance
Posted by: billwald on Sep 18, 2009 12:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are a pre-paid health care service, not insurance.

They don't meet any insurance principles. "Major medical insurance" back in the '40's and '50's was insurance because it conformed to the same principles as fire, auto, and life insurance.

Pre-existing conditions . . . anyone our there ever try buying fire insurance while their house was burning?

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This is why I don't vote.
Posted by: Augustus_818 on Sep 18, 2009 9:47 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Baucus' plan is simply put a gun to the head of the people and scream "Give me your MONEY!". And this is exactly why I was against this from the start. They bring out the carrot of "public option". Then they hit with the stick of what they were really wanting all along. Just in time to make sure it get's through at the last possible moment, so no one has time to complain, much less do anything about it.

And that's why I don't give my consent to psychopathic con-artists and sadistic assholes.

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it would only take 2 other Dem senators to kill Baucus bill in committee
Posted by: whealeydj on Sep 18, 2009 10:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
since there are 14 Democrats and 10 Republicans. Baucus is a bad bill because it coerces middle class into buying health insurance without providing public option that could undercut the health insurance corporations. moreover it taxes the 'generous' plans. if your Democratic senator is on Finance committee contact RIGHT NOW saying this is a make or break moment to kill Baucus plan in committee. tell them "I will vote for a Democratic primary opponent and a 3rd party general election opponent if you enable the Baucus bill to move forward". Tell your house member the same thing if he is a wishy washy corrupt Blue Dog: "Which side are you on? the inusurance company or the citizen? If you don't vote for the minimum of a public option I cant vote for you." Dean and the PDA should field primary opponents for every member of the Blue Dog coalition and the Green Party should target Blue Dogs to provide a general election option

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The **Bogus** health care bill
Posted by: Don on Sep 18, 2009 10:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Might just as well call it what it is.

"Baucus" already sounds pretty close.

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Kerry, Wyden, Schumer, stabenow, cantwell, nelson FL,
Posted by: whealeydj on Sep 18, 2009 10:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Carper, Menendez, lincoln AR are Dem members of Senate Finance comm in addition to Conrad and bingamon CONTACT TODAY IF THEY ARE YOUR SENATOR.

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Absolutely Execrable
Posted by: jooljetkmae on Sep 20, 2009 11:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The mandate to either buy insurance or pay a "fine", which is in reality a highly regressive tax on the uninsured, who happen to be that way because they are poor in the first place. So if you're uninsured you must either buy a private insurance plan with a highly regressive premium, or be punished with a highly regressive tax. Great.

If it's broke and the proposal to fix it will make it worse, then you might as well not try to fix it at all.

Careful what you wish. Most people wanted "health care reform" and now we're getting it Baucus-Obama style.

I hope this bill doesn't get passed.

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EVEN R.E.M. WAS SCAMMED BY OBAMA
Posted by: smf1403 on Sep 21, 2009 11:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
PEOPLE:

THE PUBLIC OPTION IS B.S. PLAIN & SIMPLE!!

THE DEMOCRATS (EXCEPT FOR DENNIS KUCINICH) ARE TRYING TO BRAINWASH US INTO BELIEVING THIS IS WHAT WE WANT. EVEN R.E.M. DID A COMMERCIAL FOR IT AND OBAMA! DO YOUR FRICKIN HOMEWORK BEFORE YOU JUMP ON THE OBAMA BANDWAGON!

WE WANT WHAT OBAMA AND ALL OF CONGRESS HAS --SINGLE-PAYER MEDICARE FOR ALL!!

NO OTHER PLAN, NO MATTER HOW MUCH OBAMA OR BAUCUS OR ROCKEFELLER TRY TO CONFUSE THE PEOPLE, WILL SUFFICE!!

LISTEN TO DENNIS KUCINICH!! HE IS GETTING FED UP WITH ALL THE RHETORIC AND B.S. FROM THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY TOO! SINGLE-PAYER MEDICARE FOR ALL REMOVES THE INSURANCE COMPANIES (THE MIDDLE-MAN). IT IS COST-EFFECTIVE AND IT CERTAINLY HAS WORKED FOR OBAMA AND CONGRESS!!

OBAMA'S PLAN MANDATES ALL PEOPLE TO BUY INSURANCE (THAT DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY TO BEGIN WITH). IT IS SOCIALISM FOR THE INSURANCE COMPANIES. THE ELITIST, RICH FOLKS (YES, OBAMA, TOO) TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER!!

SINGLE-PAYER IS THE ONLY OPTION!!!!

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The senator from West Virginia.
Posted by: the director on Sep 21, 2009 8:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The comment that Senator Rockefeller is the most knowledgeable Senator since Ted Kennedy died, did Roger Hickey really say that.

The Rockefeller family has polluted our air and water selling our own natural resources back to us and they know about "health care." They know about causing the need for health care. The Rockefeller Vaccine for Yellow Fever is the cause of the inordinately high rates of Hep C and liver failure among US Vietnam Vets.

The solution for our health is food and water
without chemicals.
Cancer is cause by chemicals, as are all
of our rapidly increasing health issues.
Linus Pauling said that our modern diseases are a result of mineral deficiencies.
Those deficiencies have been caused by the
family of this fine Senator from West Virginia
who has made the coal companies clean up their pollution and the harm done to the children of the fine people of West Virginia?

Our health is our responsibility, our food, water and air is the responsibility of our
Government. How do we pay for health care, we make those who caused ill health to pay for our care with the profits they made making us sick. Yes corporate America and their stock holders.

Senator Rockefeller may be a fine man but his name is poison to everyone who takes a breath,
WE only have one air, and only one water, we
live on one planet not owned by any corporation.

We spend the money, and when we don't buy corporate products then we may see the moral
change we the people expect from our nation.

the Director

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Max Baucus
Posted by: osd on Sep 24, 2009 6:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is truly one of the bought and paid for corporate minions. Being able to give so much money into ones re-election fund is just legal bribery. Especially when you get to keep any money that is left in the fund when you leave office. They can say all they want but it is Bribery on the Grandiose of scales. They are just corporate rats holding office and yes, it is a conflict of interest. Those who do it, are just lying corporate dogs.

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health bill by blackpool hotels
Posted by: Blackpool Hotels on Oct 11, 2009 1:35 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This story is very informative and very well written by Blackpool Hotels.

britannia hotel
hotels in blackpool
Britannia Hotels
norbreck castle hotel
britannia hotels

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