COMMENTS: 112
The Psychology of the Right-Wing's Anti-Government 'Death-Panel' Delusions
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A lot of heavyweight thinkers have offered explanations of the irrationality of modern political behavior -- you know, behavior like Medicare recipients at town halls screaming about the evils of government-run health care, or otherwise-reasonable people likening President Barack Obama's plan to Nazi eugenics.
George Lakoff theorizes that conservatives interpret reality through metaphors and meta-narratives modeled after authoritarian family structures.
Drew Westen argues that they interpret facts according to emotional investments in conclusions they already hold, bypassing cortical centers of reason altogether.
These and other analyses are powerful and helpful. But they aren't satisfying to me because they aren't specific enough to account for both the passionate urgency and self-destructiveness of the right-wing rejection of a program that will obviously benefit them.
In both my consulting room and my writing and teaching about organizational and political change, my focus is on understanding the often unconscious causes of irrational and self-destructive thinking and behavior.
However, whenever I ascribe such motivations to political attitudes, I often encounter two types of negative responses: First, the people I'm "studying" -- in this case, the Right -- feel demeaned (much like campus radicals did in the 1960s and 1970s who were told they were simply working out their "issues" with authority). And second: People on my side of the political aisle tell me that I'm using psychological mumbo-jumbo to unnecessarily complicate something quite simple. In this case, the simple truth turns out to be some throwaway line like "They're just racist idiots," or "They've been manipulated by the radical right."
While I personally share the anger at the right of my progressive detractors, I would point this out to them: Just because we all have unconscious minds that irrationally interpret and react to the world, it doesn't mean that we aren't motivated by other feelings and attitudes as well, or that we shouldn't be held accountable for the damage we do in the process.
It simply means that when people routinely act against their own best interest, it's worth understanding all levels of their motivation. Progressives, by the way, aren't immune to unconscious self-sabotage; they display such irrationality all the time when, for example, they launch quixotic campaigns against the "enemy" that don't stand a chance of winning.
But in the case of health care reform and the anti-government rage we see in town halls and "tea party" events, the irrationality seems to me more prominent on the right.
I'm not talking about the behavior of people who have a vested interest in the status quo or are shilling for them. I'm talking about ordinary folks who are currently acting against their best interest.
Of course, they don't think that this is what they're doing. When people do or say irrational things, they always think they're being reasonable. I'm arguing that it's patently against their best rational interests to fight against health reform, to vilify government when it helps and protects them every day, and do so in ways that insure that the folks who are screwing them continue to be able to do so.
For example, at a recent tea party demonstration in Sacramento, Calif., a participant, Walter Branson, was interviewed. Branson said that he had worked for many years in the lumber industry but hadn't worked at all this year. His unemployment benefits were about to run out and, he added, "winter is coming."
He further reported that a lumber company executive had just spoken at the rally and claimed that business was down because of environmental regulations. Now, I don't know Branson but his anti-government zeal interests me because he clearly benefits from what he hates. Among the myriad ways he depends on government is his unemployment insurance, a government program, and one that has recently been extended by that same government as part of Obama's stimulus package.
And it's widely accepted that the timber industry is depressed primarily because of a slow down in new-home construction, international competition, and rapidly vanishing old-growth trees -- none of which were caused by government. Protecting the spotted owl was only the icing on the cake.
Arguing that Branson is brainwashed, racist or stupid feels good but doesn't really explain the heart of his irrational fear and hatred of government.
So, I'd like to offer another theory, another narrative about the psychology of angry conservatives. It's a narrative that hopefully will deepen our understanding, and, therefore, our ability to politically respond.
The current language of the right in this debate is all about the perils of government taking over our lives, robbing us of freedom, and even threatening our survival (or that of our aging parents).
After wending its way through our minds and picking up steam from hot-button symbols like Nazi Germany and communism, the picture of government that emerges looks increasingly like a tyrannical parent who wants to control us. It's not simply an authoritarian parent, but one who wants to suffocate and rob us. Lakoff has argued that we need to redefine this metaphor into one of a family based on care, and he's right.
Still, it remains a puzzle how people who dearly depend on government maintain a view of it as an inimical force that wants to colonize and exploit them.
I think that one answer to this puzzle lies in the psychological perils of helplessness and dependence, defenses against which lead to anti-government paranoia. The process by which this occurs is complicated and takes a bit of explaining.
If there's one thing I've learned from my clinical practice, it's that people hate feeling helpless and dependent. And yet, we're all born this way and only gradually relinquish this position over the course of our lives -- until, that is, we become elderly or ill and have to re-experience it intensely once again.
Interestingly, if feeling helpless and dependent is threatening, then so, too, is feeling innocent. Why innocent? Because if we're helpless, we can't really be responsible for what we feel and do. In this sense we're innocent. Over and over again in my work, I see people struggle against the feeling that they're helpless, dependent, and, yes, innocent.
Try talking to someone sometime who was smacked around a lot growing up. Ask them whether they were helpless, dependent and innocent back then. Odds are they'll equivocate, perhaps noting that they weren't the easiest kid or extending forgiveness to the abusive parent on the grounds that he or she might have been under enormous stress at the time, or had been beaten by his or her own parents.
These caveats might be true, but they are also ways to mitigate innocence. They are intended to make us less sympathetic characters because most of us have a very hard time viewing our lives with much compassion for the helpless, dependent and innocent person we once were and, to some extent, still are.
One of the reasons we don't like seeing ourselves this way is that we all naturally tend to take responsibility for our lot in life. We want to feel that we choose our lives, that we have some inalienable and existential freedom to determine our present and future, that we are actors and agents.
That's one reason why offering psychological analyses of bad behavior is often scorned. We (psychologists, that is) are seen as letting people off the hook, subtly endorsing bad behavior on the grounds of bad childhoods, even getting serial killers acquitted on insanity pleas. Psychological explanations seem to invariably challenge dearly held beliefs in individual freedom, autonomy and choice, even though there is nothing invariable about this whatsoever.
The problem is this: There are many ways that our freedom and control were severely constrained as children and continue to be as adults.
As children, we were dependent on our caretakers for psychic and physical survival. They determined how we saw and experienced reality and morality. We weren't actors free to choose another family. Further, we encounter institutions today that similarly restrict our freedom, laws that prohibit our choices, and cultural rewards and punishments over which we have no control.
If you're born poor, you can succeed, but not as easily as someone born wealthy. If you're a person of color you can do well, but not as easily as someone white.
While perhaps obvious, these facts nevertheless are tiny instances of the multiple ways that we don't exercise free choice and autonomy but are both powerfully dependent and, therefore, ultimately innocent of blame in many areas of our lives.
What do we do then? What did we do as children when faced with this same contradiction? What do we do today? If we regularly encounter conditions over which we're powerless and which put us into states of dependence, but such feelings are intolerable, what solutions do our minds generate? This is the stuff of psychotherapy, and, I believe, an important conflict underlying certain political attitudes and behavior.
One of the main things we do is blame ourselves. If our overinvestment in being free agents leads us to refuse to face feelings of helplessness, then we have no choice but to make our suffering our own fault.
If we always have choices, then we're also always responsible for their outcomes, and if these outcomes are negative, then we have no one to blame but ourselves. That's what children do. They feel responsible and guilty for their own pain and suffering because the alternative is too threatening. Because if they are not responsible, then who is? It's scary to blame parents, whom we love and on whom we depend for everything.
It is said that children would "rather be sinners in heaven than saints in hell," that they would rather exonerate their caregivers and feel guilty than hold their caregivers accountable and feel innocent.
Adults blame themselves, too. We're a culture in which, despite mountains of evidence to the contrary, anyone supposedly can go from rags to riches. We're a meritocracy in which one rises or falls according to one's ability and value. Our private tendencies to irrationally blame ourselves are sanctioned and reinforced all the time in the outside world. Despite the obvious barriers and constraints on social mobility, we still secretly blame ourselves for our lot in life.
At this point in the story, however, we don't yet have much of an explanation for anti-government hostility and paranoia. What we have are people threatened by feelings of helplessness, dependency and innocence who are, as a result, inclined to blame themselves for their own suffering.
We need to take one more step, and that is to recognize that these feelings of self-blame, of guilt, are also very painful to feel. No one likes to hate him or herself, to feel the shame connected to feeling that "you have only yourself to blame" for your frustrations and pain.
But self-blame and guilt are the automatic and natural byproducts of our intolerance of helplessness and our belief in freedom and choice. So, what do we do with these toxic feelings of self-recrimination that are continually stirred up?
Most of my patients tend to project them. In other words, to blame others. "It's not my fault, it's yours or hers or his." While only a transient solution, it's a compelling one. It momentarily restores some sense of innocence. I'm an innocent victim. I had no choice. I'm back on the moral high ground.
Blame is a powerful antidote to guilt, albeit a temporary one. Because it's not a real solution, the innocence it creates is not based on an accurate view of ourselves. These feelings of guilt, these irrational feelings of responsibility and self-blame, don't go away. They're still there. They have to be projected over and over.
Government is a good target for these projections. For the right, it's the perfect target. It's big and powerful. It's anonymous. It interacts with our lives everywhere, all the time. What other institution does this? What other force is there in our lives that is so ubiquitous, so full of laws, rules, restrictions, restraints, obligations, demands, all backed by force?
The logic goes: "I'd be happy (translated: not self-blaming and/or hating) if government would just stop getting in my way, stop trying to hold me down and hold me back with its regulations and taxes! If government would just get out of my life, I could be free, autonomous, and successful."
In this way, the conservative's claims of innocence and victimization seek to counteract private feeling of guilt and responsibility.
The pain that our objective helplessness creates both personally and socially, the pain that we channel first into guilt and then blame, is the pain of not being taken care of, of not being protected, of not being recognized and supported. We don't really think of it this way because to do so would highlight the feelings of dependency and helplessness, feelings that are intolerable.
However, for conservatives, such an awareness appears in a vicarious form, in the form of the envy that they especially feel toward people who they imagine are being properly cared for. The internal conversation might go something like, "We're sacrificing and enduring deprivation, and those people over there are getting away with something, getting a free pass. We're responsible for our own lot in life, but they seem content to get handouts."
Like the Reagan Democrats who fantasized about the black welfare queen rewarded for being lazy, the modern conservative has other images provided for a similar purpose. The "illegal immigrant" will get the benefits that hard-working conservative Americans deserve to reap from their sacrifice and the taxes they pay.
This is another version of the vitriolic attacks on welfare of all kinds, including that contained in health care reform, attacks stemming from the fantasy that I'm not getting my own needs met so that someone "over there" can get theirs met.
Finally, we come to the psychology behind beliefs in "death panels."
In my work, the sheer irrationality of the claims suggests that something psychically powerful and conflictual is at work. Since it's so bizarre, let's treat it like a fantasy.
The fantasy behind these claims is that the handicapped, the elderly and the demented, will be killed, and we have to stand up on their behalf and stop this terrible threat. Now, why would someone believe this? Part of the answer is sure that they're told it's true and everywhere they look, right-wing media is repeating it. But it's not simple ignorance. The lie hits a nerve, it evokes a passion that overwhelms reason.
What do the handicapped, elderly and demented have in common? Simply put, they're innocent and helpless. Besides children, are there any other groups who more automatically trigger our sympathies than these, who are more deserving of our care and protection? And like children, they are very innocent.
Who wouldn't want to "man the barricades" for such folks? Who wouldn't be outraged by even the hint of an anonymous bureaucrat denying them help? These groups are symbols of innocent dependency of a sort that is pure, entitled to help and deserving of care.
Everything that we're not.
Everything, in this case, that conservatives can't feel about themselves. Conservatives respond so passionately to the specter of government-ordered euthanasia because they are vicariously defending their own right to feel innocent, to be dependent, to get some care and protection, a right that unfortunately they're too ashamed to consciously embrace.
Unable to accept their own legitimate dependency needs, they project them onto others, locating them -- in a sense, the vulnerable and innocent parts of themselves -- in others who are indisputably dependent and to whose defense they can safely come.
I recently treated a guy who was virulently anti-government. He frequently complained that everyone got a handout but that he had to work all the time to make ends meet. His background was harsh, both emotionally and economically. His father was a tyrant and his mother was, in his mind, a doormat who didn't protect him.
He learned to endure harsh conditions in which he got little recognition and developed a strong work ethic that enabled him to overcome a lot of obstacles. He didn't ask anyone for anything. He likened himself to a camel in the desert adapted to going long distances without water.
He internalized the lack of empathy in his childhood home, and therefore had difficulty extending empathy to others, including his own children. What was striking was the way that his view of all the people "on the government dole" replicated the harsh way that his father had seemed to view him (a good-for-nothing, lazy, etc.).
His antagonism toward any kind of affirmative action or welfare stemmed from the bitter conviction that people "didn't deserve to get something for nothing," a conviction that had actually harmed him a great deal growing up but which he had made into a way of life. As he gradually became aware of his own unrequited needs for help, protection, comfort and care, his hostile scapegoating decreased.
He didn't become less conservative. He became less vitriolic about it. It was a case in which the passion diminished but the formal political position remained, again reminding me that therapy can help explain and moderate passion, not politics.
We all have a longing to be cared for, a longing that unfortunately comes to feel inherently in conflict with autonomy and freedom. The conflicts that we all have about being deserving of such care thus get distorted and appear as anti-government paranoia.
Our own internal sense of being undeserving of care becomes, then, a rejection of the need for care, which becomes an external distrust of the care that is actually being offered. Government-as-caretaker becomes a threat rather than a gratification. If you see government as providing help, you are forced to accept that you need help, and that position is what ultimately is intolerable. Try telling a town-haller some time that he or she is on the government dole via Medicare and see how far you get!
This dynamic process in which need becomes fear becomes anger is well known to clinicians who treat paranoid patients. The threat feels external to these patients, but the source of it is really internal, a fear of their own dependency needs being manipulated and used as a means to control them.
The only way that they can feel safe and innocent is if they locate the problem outside themselves in some larger malevolent power and then aggressively defend themselves against that power. If they join with others in the process, all the better, since such imaginary communities provide a further sense of safety and connection.
In the end, though, the paranoid system has to be continually replenished with new enemies, new threats, and, therefore, new dangers to battle. For the hard-core right, egged on by their media and political patrons, the government provides an endless source of new enemies.
The answer to this type of dynamic in which feelings of helplessness, dependency, and innocence are so dangerous isn't through reason. In my experience, there are two options.
The first is to give up on attempts to reach them, an approach that I think is perfectly appropriate for many of the hard-line paranoid anti-government types. I am generally a therapeutic optimist, except in cases where there is significant paranoia. Since everything I do or say is seen through a paranoid filter, there is little chance for me to reach the person.
Politically, we shouldn't try. We should outvote them, outfight them and defeat them.
The other option, appropriate with other less-rigid and brittle members of this psychic class is take a longer view. In these cases, while defeating them politically, we have to also disprove or disconfirm their experience in practice, to provide over time experiences in which they can feel some control but also get helped.
It's almost as if you have to take care of them in spite of themselves, in ways that allow them the maximum amount of freedom and the maximum autonomy to say "No."
Only then will you stand a chance of them hearing your arguments.
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Posted by: LillianB on Sep 5, 2009 1:44 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: S 2028 house bill 108
Posted by: philosimphy
» RE: S 2028 house bill 108
Posted by: Ray Duray
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Posted by: philosimphy on Sep 5, 2009 2:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look at it from the Winger’s point of view:
When the dems come into power the wingers start to test their boundaries by acting out. If the acting out is tolerated, they start to wonder if there is anything the (A)uthority (F)igure won’t tolerate. Will the AF tolerate threats from outside sources?If the AF doesn’t have the balls to tell his own citizens to stop making trouble, will he have the balls to stop true enemies from making trouble? At the base of it is the worry that if the AF can’t even stand up to *us*, then he won’t have the balls to protect *us*.
They respect authority. They expect authority to keep people in line. ALL people, themselves included. That’s what I think a lot of people don’t realize.
The Authoritarians
Respect Mah Authoritah!
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» "The Authoritarians" by Bob Altmeyer
Posted by: Ray Duray
» Are they against government, or are they just against CORRUPT government???
Posted by: JohnTruth2001
» RE: The Authoritarians Web Site Link
Posted by: wmholt
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Posted by: swansong on Sep 5, 2009 3:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The politics of psychological manipulation... very fascinating series by Adam Curtis. Watch episode 4 on Reagan/Thatcher and Clinton/Blair eras and their methodological and ideological transformations.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?
docid=1122532358497501036&hl=undefined#
-------------------
The Trap
How did we get into this conspicuous situation, with its imbalances of power and wealth, and the populace brainwashed as docile consumers... This film expounds upon the deception that we are "free," and the insidious framework inherited from Cold War thinkers John Nash and RAND analysts that has undermined our very humanity. His use of historical footage and primary sources is impeccable.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?
docid=404227395387111085
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-
1087742888040457650
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-
7581348588228662817
-----------------------------
The Power of Nightmares
Incredible insight into the parallel rise of the Neoconservative and Islamic Fundamentalist movements, incredible footage and interviews as usual.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?
docid=4933960062431353720
http://video.google.com/videoplay?
docid=4602171665328041876
http://video.google.com/videoplay?
docid=2081592330319789254
FOR LINKS TO MORE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js39hh9OkpQ
http://www.rewtube.com
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» Brainwashed,Racist, and Stupid Versus "Psycho" Theories and Longwinded "Analyses"
Posted by: hadashito
» Yes, you are right...
Posted by: wmholt
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Posted by: jonodavidson on Sep 5, 2009 3:43 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would think that a true republican would support the right of their elected officials to represent the interests of the people in their various districts in the Congress. A democrat would support the direct rule of the majority in all decisions of the state in law. At least a republican form of government is one in which elected officials represent the people of their district in a general congress in a legislative assembly. A democratic form of government is where the people rule by the majority.
Having political parties claiming names describing a form of government really makes it difficult to understand the issues that are actually dividing a party. The parties are obviously agreed upon the form of government under which they are operating, so their names are not descriptive of their purposes. That means we elect people who are not representing anyone, and they pursue power for their own interests. Maybe the right wingers should be scared. Heck, I never know what our government will do next, but I am not being surprised.
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» RE: the right wing
Posted by: SteveA
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Posted by: ender on Sep 5, 2009 5:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Normally we can reject that which conflicts with our worldview with subconscious ease. When we are confronted with irrefutable proof or a logical argument, the parts of the brain associated with rational thinking will shut down (we get angry or fearful and start yelling) as a defensive measure because something that challenges a person's worldview is a direct threat against one's core identity. It is *much* easier to yell or ignore than it is to listen and reevaluate.
The GOP specifically targets and cultivates members who place high importance on the value of unquestioning faith (religion) and tradition (conservatives). Both religion and tradition inherently insulates it's members, leading to distrust and xenophobia that limits exposure and/or acceptance of new information with similar dogmatic exercises social reinforcement. The rules of social reinforcement - like the thought construct imposed on the followers - are reassuringly well defined, and are of course designed to self-perpetuate.
These people have been faced with a double whammy: their trusted good ol' boy fucked up the country so badly that a black man was elected by a landslide over a POW hero.
A more direct frontal assault on their collective psyche is hard to imagine, and at this point they are willing to believe anything: Sarah Palin is qualified, Obama is a secret Muslim, hates America, the birthers, the teabaggers, the Texas secessionists, the tenthers - who knows what crazy du jour we'll see tomorrow but I suspect rational people will continue to be horrified.
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» RE: Self Delusion
Posted by: SteveA
» RE: Self Delusion
Posted by: ender
» Did the Democrats used to do that?
Posted by: suprmark
» RE: Did the Democrats used to do that?
Posted by: Morell
» RE: Did the Democrats used to do that?
Posted by: ender
» RE: Did the Democrats used to do that?
Posted by: Morell
» RE: Did the Democrats used to do that?
Posted by: ender
» RE: Self Delusion uh oh picky nicky time
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Self Delusion uh oh picky nicky time
Posted by: ender
» Well said!
Posted by: wmholt
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Sep 5, 2009 5:51 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The trouble with progressives is not their quixotic campaigns. In fact, I have some respect for their energy and determination to do the right thing, despite the odds. Even if you fail, at least you've done the right thing.
What I find a waste of time and energy is their obsessive need to understand their enemies through reason and social science. And at the root of that appears to be an desperate need to have faith in the goodness of mankind and our intellects...and perhaps a latte-liberal need to feel intellectually superior.
Sometimes evil is just evil. And sometimes an idiot is just an idiot. Anyone who wastes his time fighting against his own interests and the legitimate interests of others can be safely written off as an evil idiot, regardless of whether his father didn't hug him enough...or hugged him too much...I'm sure many progressives didn't have nice childhoods either.
If you find getting into the heads of wing-nuts interesting and fun, that's cool. But I think doing so in order to "humanize" them or make excuses for their behavior is quixotic in a bad way. Hitler might have been a frustrated artist who had a fear of intimacy and a soft spot for animals and children, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a piece of crap.
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» RE: who can be safely written off?
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Sister, I'm certain you didn't mean it
Posted by: pauldd
» The "rational conservatives" have been marginalized by the same folks
Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: Brother, I absolutely didn't mean it
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Brother, I absolutely didn't mean it
Posted by: pauldd
» Progressives like to fix what's broken
Posted by: westomoon
» RE: Psychology
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: SteveA on Sep 5, 2009 6:31 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of today's conservatives were right there with Jimmy Carter, or Geo. McCovern, or Adlai Stevenson, or even FDR, until they learned better. Your time WILL come, I promise.
If you are not liberal when you're young, you have no heart! But - if you are not conservative when you are older, you have no brain!
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» RE: if you are a conservative when you are older, you have no brain!
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Lauren
Posted by: SteveA
» RE: Ever heard of Fouad Ajami?
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Nice Talking Point
Posted by: LeaderofMen
» RE: Leader of Men
Posted by: SteveA
» RE:WOW Steve A, you can handle more than one talking point at a time!
Posted by: blurider
» But You Rightwingers Trust the Corporations!
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: Americans Do NOT Trust their Government
Posted by: aichbe
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Posted by: LeaderofMen on Sep 5, 2009 7:10 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I say they are genetically programmed to be victims and follow their genetics to a T.
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» RE: teaching discrimination
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
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Posted by: L5 on Sep 5, 2009 7:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mandatory application process requirements for all elected public representatives before having their name placed on any public voting ballot would include;
All applicants applying for election to any office of public representation would be required to publicly disclose their medical, educational, military, tax, investment holdings, criminal arrest records and employment history before their name could be placed on any ballot.
All applicants would be required to meet the same psychological stability and physical fitness requirements that nuclear missile silo launch crew personnel are required to meet before being allowed near missile launch control panels.
All applicants would be required to reveal all domestic and foreign donors.
All applicants would be screened for sexual predatory/pedophile preferences and traits.
All applicants would be screened for fanatical religious, racist or cult beliefs.
Upon being elected all public representatives would be required to;
All elected representatives would be banned from all communications with any lobbyists, con-men, known liars, thieves, perverts, religious fanatics, corporation CEO’s, hookers and criminals, either directly or indirectly.
All elected representatives would be required to read in entirety…and pass a test on the content of each bill, with a grade of B+ or higher, before they can cast a vote for any legislation.
All elected representatives would be required to pass urine and breathalyzer tests before each vote they cast for any legislation and be subject to random substance abuse testing at all other times.
All elected representatives would be required to live in public housing while in Washington DC and public housing in their own districts when there, for the first year of their term.
All elected officials would be required to take public transportation and pay for all travel needs, local, national and international.
All elected officials would be required to pay for the most expensive and least effective health insurance plan with the highest co-payments available when they enter office.
All elected officials would be paid based on meeting quarterly performance requirement goals.
All elected officials would be exempt from obtaining any taxpayer supported pension plan while holding office…etc., etc., etc.
…Sort of sounds like what the rest of us have to go through when we apply for a job or what we have to endure to keep the jobs we have.
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» RE: At the heart of our national problems...
Posted by: philosimphy
» You lost Bill Clinton - & Obama
Posted by: SteveA
» RE: How's that exactly SteveO?? Got some more distortions, horse shit and drivel for us m'boy??
Posted by: blurider
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Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 5, 2009 8:18 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Dems have lost their "political cover" aka "security blanket"
Posted by: diof09
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Sep 5, 2009 8:38 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
'00 was stolen, '04 rigged. Cheney & Rummy Highjacked the Exec Branch.Now That has to piss the Righties off, to have your Pres called an Idiot and your VP essentially agree. Cheney pulled off a Coup the 1st 4 yrs.
Beyond that we called his admin Nazi's,Fascists and even compared him to Hitler (Cheney as Darth- destroyer of Planets).Worse we are beginning to see the Left was not too far off the mark. Controlling Media, Undermining Congress' Oversight and powers, Rendition, Black Sites, Torture , Domestic Spying, Rejecting Federal laws and International treaties, Invading a country without cause, and of course absolutely no regard for the planet...
Bush and Cheney are not only the Worst Top dogs this country's ever seen, they are the most criminal. They have the potential to face numerous high crimes- domestically and internationally. These Right Wingers cheered them on all the way. Called those who opposed their criminal activities "Unpatriotic".But that didn't suffice, they had to take it a step further and justify the atrocities with 'Christian' passages.
The Revelations coming out about the Conspiracy of lies during the last admin has not only blown their political minds, but also their religious minds."Crusade", Bible passages on miltiary Ops. If Bush and Cheney are found guilty of Treason,War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity (etc etc)-It will also be an indictment against those who wholeheartedly supported their action with Scripture!
The only way to rectify the situation, or at least lessen the mental blow, (since they can not stop investigations and prosectuions) is to make the Next Pres and Admin look as bad or worse.
These Townhollers, teabagger,'deathers' and 'Birthers' are people on the verge of a fundmental psychiatric breakdown.
Come on they are already showing signs of schizophrenia- Medicare is Gov't run, everyone knows this. LBJ, a democrat, Created the program- everyone knows this too. yet these 'seniors' hate gov't run programs?
Further proof is in the Fact these 'Christians' are calling for 'soldiers' and 'Armies' of Christ?? Ahhhh- Dudes Christ never weilded a weapon, nor recruited soldiers or mounted armies....That was the Romans.In fact if you believe Revelations He doesn't need such things in the 'final battle' either.So who ya 'packin' For??
These folks are collectively in a mental meltdown- everything they believed has been proven wrong- treasonous, criminal, heretical. So they are trying to double down on the 'Old song & dance'in hopes they can convince everyone else they are still the most patriotic and Devote.
Two thing separate the Bat shit Left from the Bat shit Right- First Lefties no longer resort to violence.Even though we like to act like we would, we are not avid Gun enthusiasts, in general. Second we are not motivated, collectively, by a Religous doctrine, which determines our eternal salavation or damnation.
Lets Be honest, Some of Us were getting a lil' crazy during Cheney's reign of terror- looking over our shoulders, sure our PC's were under surveillance (who knows we may still be proven rational on some of these 'paranoias'). But the Election of Obama helped ease our fears, and even some hatreds.
These Right Wingers need someone in leadership to counsel them on how to square the last 8 yrs in their own minds. How to live with the realization that they had all been duped and in ways complicite by failing to perform the duties of a citizen in a democracy. To be informed, to question 'authority' and demand real answers. But instead of asking this of the ones who decieved them, they have turned this new found civics exercise on the Next Admin, instead.
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» RE: Pay Backs Are a Crazy bitch
Posted by: wagnerrocks@gmail.com
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Posted by: Robert Wales, Ph.D. on Sep 5, 2009 9:54 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2.) We, as a fundamentally Christian nation are susceptible to guilt, as in original sin etc. Many issues involving our government are couched in such a way as to tap into that guilt,eg., 'save water-take short showers' when, in fact, industry and agriculture utilize over 90% of available potable water. 'Support the troops' is another one of many shining examples of this dynamic.
3.) Divergence between culture and government is a widening chasm wherein we-the-people struggle for more civility while the government continuously becomes more aggressive and intolerant of our very existence and that of other countries. These may very well lead to our final unraveling.
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» RE: obert Wales Ph.D.
Posted by: Morell
» RE: obert Wales Ph.D.
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE:Quite right professor, except for one detail! It's not 'pure' government which acts against the
Posted by: blurider
» RE: If it weren't for the corporate world we'd be the power behind OUR government.
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» At least you recognize we are fundamentally a christian nation
Posted by: jonodavidson
» RE: At least you recognize we are fundamentally a christian nation
Posted by: jonodavidson
» RE: obert Wales Ph.D.
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: Prinzowhales on Sep 5, 2009 10:22 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And, is mercury so good for your children that it must be injected into their little arms? YOUR goverment thinks so...YOUR goverment thinks that wars based on lies are necessary for your freedom...YOUR goverment tells you that Osama bin Laden is alive and well...YOUR goverment tells you that a kerosine fire in the WTC can pulverize concrete and melt steel...YOUR goverment told you that the air was fine after 9-11...YOUR goverment tells you that free trade is great for the economy...
Trust goverment? Are you kidding? Millions dead under the Communists in China....Millions dead in the gulags...Millions dead in the concentration camps...Syphillis tested on black men...US soldiers radiated watching atomic bomb explosions...Sephardic Jewish children murdered and maimed by Ashkenazi Zionist Regime in Tel Aviv with X-ray machines provided by the US...
TRUST GOVERMENT??!! That is quite irrational... It could well be described as insane.
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» RE: DISTRUST AND FEAR OF GOVERMENT IS QUITE RATIONAL...
Posted by: Perry Logan
» you are not rational
Posted by: Juven
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Posted by: magistre on Sep 5, 2009 10:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» I agree. Great article and real dangers
Posted by: Bob Horn
» RE: I agree. Great article and real dangers
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
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Posted by: suprmark on Sep 5, 2009 12:38 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Interesting piece. I didn't really appreciate that the only viable solution seemed to be to simply fight though.
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Posted by: Portlyric on Sep 5, 2009 12:38 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(their code word for weak)get's attacked just like a bigger animal attacks and dominates a smaller one. They only resent their abusers because they cannot be the abuser themselves. By aligning themselves with loud, hate infused power they feel powerful. They are Darwinian throwbacks who walk on their hindlegs. They receive education but are never educated. Corporations know exactly how to manipulate them by appealing to their ruling base instincts. They measure their happiness and success primarily by the comparative suffering of others. That is why they don't object when someone else's kid gets killed in Iraq or others die because they lack healthcare. They have chosen to behave like selfish animals instead of humans who possess a spark of divinity. Even my dogs behave better. Read John Gray's, Strawdogs. I don't agree with everything Gray says but it's certainly a reality check.
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Posted by: bill6117 on Sep 5, 2009 1:21 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: sdz on Sep 5, 2009 1:53 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. Enslavement
2. Ethnic and racial cleansing, aggressive war-making and other Crimes against humanity
3. Development and use of WMD
4. Torture
5. Unlawful and unnecessary surveillance
Etc.
There are, then, reasons to check a state's power. After all, what would we expect the well-placed paranoids to do when they get massive and unchecked power? Act like Bush and Cheney, the neocons, etc.! And yet, how often does an individual's paranoia reflect realistic concerns about the world? One may wonder about this given the irrationality of the reactionary right who believe a cautious and conservative President like Obama has it in for them! This is what makes them dangerous: They wish to look into the vanity mirror to see their own reflection while holding all of the cards. "That way madness lies," Lear exclaimed. He, at least, opted to remain sane. But the same cannot be said about America's reactionaries.
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Posted by: blurider on Sep 5, 2009 2:40 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To any real degree that government isn't 'by and for' the people as expressed in our ideal of democracy - to any degree that the concerns of the left OR the right (as ordinary citizens) are left unattended, it's because of the influence of corporations.
I submit that there are NO totally 'pure' pols on either side - as demonstrated by the mere fact that they got elected in this corporate run world - and that the differences are only a matter of degree! That the left is only a little more virginal because they caught on to how to compete in that environment later than the right.
Historically corporations were the merchant class's way to compete in commerce, against the ruling elites who had 'cornered' all resources and markets. Then after some serious success and total intimidation of the ruling class, they saw that they'd better get on the side of the corporate world. It's been downhill ever since as the power of that 'partnership' grew and the glimmer of democracy has only shown a little, in the deceived citizen's eyes since then!
Today, the farmer, teacher, artist, artisan or blue collar worker who favors the right is deluded alright but only a little more so than the left leaning citizen who is at a severe disadvantage to try to change things.
Just a few moments of thought leads to the conclusion that without this influence there is simply no reason why government wouldn't, couldn't or doesn't literally fall all over themselves to, serve the people precisely as we have so naively, come to expect!
If it weren't for the corporate world we'd be the power behind OUR government.
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Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Sep 5, 2009 2:54 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Conservatives are united. Progressives and liberals aren't.
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
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Posted by: crowepps on Sep 5, 2009 3:59 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: crowepps
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
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Posted by: drricklippin on Sep 5, 2009 4:17 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Their world view is one of fear- not hope
They have an immature and extreme fear of death which pervades all of their politics.
They really never grew up. And actually they can't.
That is why we must focus on future generations. Our only hope?
Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa
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» RE: THESE PEOPLE ARE LIBERALS!!
Posted by: SteveA
» RE: THESE PEOPLE ARE LIBERALS!!
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: THESE PEOPLE ARE LIBERALS!!
Posted by: SteveA
» RE:DUH...! THESE PEOPLE ARE LIBERALS!!
Posted by: kanekoa64
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Posted by: westomoon on Sep 5, 2009 8:29 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It always turned out that the fear of abortion was a thin skin over the fear of euthanasia -- the "right to lifers" deep passion was a passion for saving their own lives. Nearly every single one of these hundreds of discussions devolved very quickly into "abortion leads to euthanasia and my children will kill me when I'm old."
I am not offering conclusions here, just wanted to share this observation -- the fear of killing unwanted adults has been vivid for along time among these folks, and they have been assuming all along that they'd be the unwanted adults. I guess it's easier to slam on as many controls as they can, rather than exert themselves to be likable.
And really, when you look at people like Tom DeLay, Ted Haggard, and Turd Blossom, how wrong do you suppose they really are in assuming that the people who are stuck with them want them dead?
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» RE: I told my husband it was a cultural difference
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
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Posted by: jonodavidson on Sep 6, 2009 2:36 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem we are having in our society is that there is no respect for the authority of God over his creation by the liberals who live here. They deny that America is a Christian nation and persuade themselves that God had nothing to do with this nation's founding. They have convinced themselves that God is only an idea that people have propagated through custom and practice.
If a liberal were willing to consider the facts concerning the bonds that unite us as a people with an open-mind in order to discover the true nature of those bonds, then he would discover the means by which he can become empowered by God to take action.
The British had the finest infantry in the world, supported by the most powerful navy. They had defeated all challengers to the rights to control the east india company. The empire was at the height of power and a superpower to be reckoned with by any nation on earth. The loss of the American colonies did not diminish its power as a nation state after America had established its independence, for they were still capable of defeating Napoleon for control over Europe.
The colonists, on the other hand, did not have any formal army of its own. They had fought their previous battles on the frontier by forming militias in support of the British war machine. They had not tried to provocate the British into battle, but they had resisted government infringements upon their rights for over a decade prior to the first fights in 1775. The British invaded Massachusetts and occupied Boston in response to the Boston Tea Party on December 16, 1773.
The manner in which the colonial militias challenged the British forces for control in Boston is remarkable. For they did not try to seize Boston back by force. Nor did they even seek to engage the British forces who occupied Boston in battle. Instead, they stole onto Breed's Hill under the cover of night and spent the night digging field fortifications from which to defend the hill on the outskirts of Boston. The British soldiers attacked the Colonists, while dressed in full parade uniform and carrying over a hundred pounds of gear. They took the hill on the second charge when the colonists ran out of ammo.
The Declaration of Independence was drafted and signed about two weeks later. They called upon the Supreme Judge of the World for the rectitude of their intentions. God answered their call. He heard them pray. He empowered them to overcome their enemies. He established them by his might, so that America was not simply annexed back into the British Empire after the British burned the White House down to the ground. The founding fathers sailed to Europe so quickly seeking to sue for peace that they never heard the news of the British defeat in New orleans.
You liberals establish an understanding of the basic principles that were stated in the declaration of independence, and you appeal to the far-right using those principles as the basis for unifying our entire nation, and we will bring the government under our own sovereign control. You must believe in the principles even if you cannot believe in God. That is the path to power that has been our birthright and heritage, and your refusal to accept that God is almighty undermines your own authority.
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» RE: you lost me at god
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: The root of the problem is in the government
Posted by: SteveA
» RE: The root of the problem is in the government
Posted by: mkdelta69
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Posted by: TSGuy on Sep 6, 2009 6:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense. ( Miller, 1993 , p. 4)
"In 1995, McArthur Wheeler walked into two Pittsburgh banks and robbed them in broad daylight, with no visible attempt at disguise. He was arrested later that night, less than an hour after videotapes of him taken from surveillance cameras were broadcast on the 11 o'clock news. When police later showed him the surveillance tapes, Mr. Wheeler stared in incredulity. "But I wore the juice," he mumbled. Apparently, Mr. Wheeler was under the impression that rubbing one's face with lemon juice rendered it invisible to videotape cameras ( Fuocco, 1996 ).
...
Perhaps more controversial is the third point, the one that is the focus of this article. We argue that when people are incompetent in the strategies they adopt to achieve success and satisfaction, they suffer a dual burden: Not only do they reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the ability to realize it. Instead, like Mr. Wheeler, they are left with the mistaken impression that they are doing just fine."
The rest of the article details the testing and results.
In short, people who are incompetent at a task also lack the 'metacognitive' ability to recognize they are incompetent at a task. Paradoxically, the skills required to gain that metacognitive ability come from an increased knowledge of the topic:
"Study 4 also revealed a paradox. It suggested that one way to make people recognize their incompetence is to make them competent. Once we taught bottom-quartile participants how to solve Wason selection tasks correctly, they also gained the metacognitive skills to recognize the previous error of their ways. Of course, and herein lies the paradox, once they gained the metacognitive skills to recognize their own incompetence, they were no longer incompetent."
Not only do these people fail to understand they are working against their own best-interests, they may not even have the ability to see that as a problem.
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Posted by: mtcloud on Sep 6, 2009 6:48 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Click Here For Waking Up From the Trance of
Social and Scientific Orthodox Propaganda
- 9/11 had no corporate federal, local government planning, funding and participation
-less freedom of speech,thought and action
-government access to all of our financial records in lieu of "health care reform". Which is the same insurance companies with a new look.
-government control of the internet. The government can shut down the internet immediately for what say is an emergency. The hardware is being installed for this RIGHT NOW.
-personal gun ownership is wrong. Yet our federal and local police forces now regularly kill people with tasers and increased firepower.
Wake Up before your loved one is burned alive, blown to death like my brother (Geoffrey Cloud WTC 9-11) was by our corporate federal, local government of murderers, liars. Once you have the guts to believe the truth, you won't accept anything the government says through mainstream news like FOX,CNN and Alternet
Michael Cloud
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Posted by: Lilly on Sep 6, 2009 7:25 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This Jerry Springer Show-type gang of rabid screamers has certainly derailed national health care and may have shut it down. They have effected the resignation of some of Obama's appointees. They have been instrumental in the watering-down of policies put forth by an administration that currently controls Washington. They have been gloriously successful in painting the President as Socialist, Communist, Black Militant, non-citizen, Muslim, and Anti-Christ. They have convinced much of the nation that Obama intends forcible vaccination and mercy-killing, to name only two of many preposterous claims. Right now they are controlling the debate around whether or not the President of the United States may advise our youth to stay in school and study hard, so pernicious an image has the right wing succeeded in giving a democratically elected President.
To me this has been a watershed summer when mainstream media and Congressmen began picking up the right-wing message and broadcasting it in prime time. In the 1960's the John Birchers were generally regarded as nuts. Now, statements more bizarre than anything stated then are given respect and serious media coverage. A development which, BTW, Robert Paxton defines as Stage Three in the development of a Fascist society---when the words of Rush Limbaugh are seriously repeated on the floor of the United States Congress and the inmates begin taking over the asylum.
I wonder how many liberals still believe, along our nephew and Anne Frank and Dr Pangloss, that people are basically good and that we live in the best of all possible worlds. And I find myself remembering a passage in Elie Weisel's "Night" when young Elie's father says, "So we have to wear a yellow armband? So what? You don't die of that." Weisel reports this memory of his long-ago past. Then he steps back into the present to muse, "Poor father: of what, then, did you die?".
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» RE: Liberal Blinders
Posted by: SteveA
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Posted by: Robert Wales, Ph.D. on Sep 6, 2009 7:51 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» You certainly are impressed with yourself
Posted by: jonodavidson
» He *should* be proud of his Ph.D.
Posted by: wmholt
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Posted by: willymack on Sep 6, 2009 9:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What we have here is one group of people whining because some meanie or meanies stole their candy, and another afraid to confront the meanie(s) because that would CHANGE everything.
It's the CHANGE-even for the better-that's feared.
The fear is born of IGNORANCE, ignorance of even the most basic knowlege of what's in our Constitution, our history, and how our government works, or fails to work.
Any real and lasting solution to our self-inflicted woes MUST begin with a first-rate education for ALL. This must be sustained on a constant basis until our people are as educated as those of, let's say Japan or France, to name two well-educated nations.
Ignorance, especially willful and arrogant ignorance was warned against and predicted by George Orwell in his prophetic book "1984".
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
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Posted by: Tim V on Sep 6, 2009 9:46 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2. If someone is blaming himself for strictly self-destructive behavior (or is projecting this blame onto others) a good therapeautic technique might be to point out that the harm they've caused themselves is often a more-than-adequate penalty for their erroneous behavior, so they should cease the blame game entirely.
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Posted by: reelectnoone on Sep 6, 2009 10:11 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know you have read the stories of people denied live saving drugs by their insurance companies because it was too expensive.
Isn't this the real "Death Panel" we want so hard to blame on Obama and Congress? It is real but it is the very people who don't want change who sit on those panels. Now they are sitting on another panel to bring death to reform.
These people can't get enough death...they want more !
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» More death panels coming from Wall Street, too
Posted by: westomoon
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Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Sep 6, 2009 10:57 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unfortunately to many maximum freedom means relatively little freedom at all. In the case of a patient, they can refuse treatment, citizens are not so free to decide when it comes to their government.
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» RE: Also a note on codependency
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
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Posted by: DaBear on Sep 6, 2009 4:51 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's the missing ink in all of this. Bader's final few paragraphs sums up the solution. Toss in a little Sara Robinson and viola, we have the delicious dish we've all been smelling from the dining room but had no idea what it could be.
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Posted by: pincheguru on Sep 6, 2009 9:57 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeah, they may not be the sharpest knives in the drawer, but they're at least smart enough to be aware that a) they are unequipped to make sense of the world around them, b) they aren't as attractive as they think they should be in a society that over-values appearance, c) they can't buy most of the shiny stuff that have become symbols of success in America, d) they aren't well liked in social circles, or e) all of the above. In short, they feel pretty crappy about themselves. A lot of it has to do with advertising, I think. Each day these people get inundated with ads and TV sitcoms that make them feel that they are, well, "losers". Each day brings another punishing blow to their self-worth. It eats away at a man (and lets face it - most of these people are males).
And then comes Beck, Rush, Hannity, and the rest of these vultures... and suddenly these otherwise dumpy, loathsome ninnies who have never been allowed to run the deep fryer unsupervised now have been entrusted with a mission of utmost importance: save America from the fascist/terrorist/communist threat!
In their everyday real lives, they may just be poor white trash with nothing going for them, no hope of a future, and no accomplishments to be proud of. But when they listen to wing-nut hate radio, they are told they are the "salt of the earth", "the Real Patriots", "the Good Citizen with a Morally Just Cause." It is all very flattering.
Having not much to be proud of personally, the movement conservatives take great pride in being Americans... and being white. Nothing helps lagging self-esteem more than to perceive oneself a member of group supposedly superior to another group. The Southern Poverty Law Center understands this psychology well.
Wing-nut radio and TV feeds this innate need for something to be proud of, adding large doses of melodrama that are as addictive as crack to those who have been starving for anything of real substance in their otherwise numbingly dull existences.
When they listen to wing-nut media, they are transformed from dim, weak, insecure, and unaccomplished losers who find themselves utterly lost in a world incomprehensibly complex to them... into Confident, Proud, White American Patriots, entrusted to honorably defend Freedom and God's Law. It's an irresistable formula.
We can talk all night about what it is about our society that produces so many folks who feel such low self-worth. That's a more complex issue. But what's far less complex is that movement conservatism in this country is simply about lending a sense of pride - however false - to people who desperately need it.
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Posted by: Juven on Sep 7, 2009 3:39 PM
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» RE: the government must go
Posted by: Morell
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Posted by: jlowelld on Sep 8, 2009 2:59 PM
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Posted by: whealeydj on Sep 8, 2009 5:02 PM
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Posted by: Ahimsa on Sep 8, 2009 7:40 PM
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Let them eat shit.
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Posted by: georgekat on Sep 9, 2009 4:39 AM
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Provides good reason to get rid of psychotherapy and psychotherapists.
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» RE: george
Posted by: Morell
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Posted by: nobyjingo on Sep 12, 2009 2:18 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Adolph Hitler's frame in "Mein Kampf": "“At that time I (Adolph Hitler) adopted the standpoint: It makes no difference whatever, whether they laugh at us or revile us, whether they represent us as clowns or criminals; the main thing is that they mention us, that they concern themselves with us again and again, and that we gradually in the eyes of the workers themselves appear to be the only power that anyone reckons with at the moment. What we really are and what we really want, we will show the wolves of the Jewish press when the time comes.”
Adolph Hitler's frame in "Mein Kampf": “One can never count on protection on the part of the authorities; on the contrary, experience shows that it always and exclusively benefits the disturbers. For the sole actual result of intervention by the authorities—- that is, the police—- was at best to dissolve, in other words, to close the meeting. And that was the sole aim and purpose of the hostile disturbers.”
Adolph Hitler's frame in "Mein Kampf": “If through some sort of threats it becomes known to the authorities that there is danger of a meeting being broken up, they do not arrest the threateners, but forbid the others, the innocent, to hold the meeting, and what is more, the run-of-mill police mind is mighty proud of such wisdom. They call this a ‘precautionary measure for the prevention of an illegal act.’ Thus, the determined gangster is always in a position to make political activity and efforts impossible for decent people. In the name of Law and Order, the State Authority gives it to the gangster and requests the others please not to provoke him.”
"Mein Kampf" the Playbook used by Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS in the United States is not being used innocently against the liberals -- the Right-Wing is trying to do a Weimar thing on President Obama and the liberals. President Obama and the liberal legislators using Neville Chamberlain type appeasement of the Right-Wing EXTREMISTS will only be thought of as weakness by the Hitleresque Right-Wing EXTREMISTS, just the same as happened to Neville Chamberlain when he thought he had negotiated "Peace in our time" for England --- the Right-Wing EXTREMISTS are after power and nothing else will do..
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Posted by: lafrance on Sep 13, 2009 9:02 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They saw government as benevolent. They grew up during the depression and saw the benefits of government.
The generation that now fights so hard against government are baby boomers.
They came of age when anti establishment, evil government that does war and is big brother was the thinking.
Government in the form of FBI, CIA and those abuses being uncovered.
Government and the 68 riots.
Government and Nixon.
This the generation that changed society grew into one that is overly timid and cautious and clings to the status quo.
However, they never lost their fear and hate of the government and are the generation that embraced conspiracy theories the most.
Baby boomers were the generation that if it came into vogue or was better known of back in the 60s and 70s, most would have embraced: Libertarianism.
But, it not being a well known political movement, in the 70s became more and more republican and worshipping conservativism and Reagan.
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Posted by: aichbe on Sep 14, 2009 12:38 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It always seemed that the Republicans I knew had formed strong opinions based on not much information, and had problems understanding, let alone accepting, a different perspective, even if legitimate proof was offered. I have frequently tried to lend books, tapes, and other media which had relevance to the discussion and which expressed a progressive point of view, but got a "no thanks" numerous times. It was sort of,"I'm not even looking because I know what I'll find" attitude.
I am, as are many others on the left, able to honestly see the other side of an issue, and if the new data I perceive is better than what I had, I'll adjust my position. I have improved my levels of tolerance of some things, and am less tolerant of others. I can even watch FOX without flinching, for a while. I guess it's hard to understand why conservatives can't even see another way to look at things, and DON'T fucking want to talk about it. Turns out, they're fucking NUTS! Who knew??
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Posted by: timenotonmyside on Sep 14, 2009 5:38 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not a record many Republicans are likely to point to with pride.
On every major measurement, the Census Bureau report shows that the country lost ground during Bush's two terms. While Bush was in office, the median household income declined, poverty increased, childhood poverty increased even more, and the number of Americans without health insurance spiked. By contrast, the country's condition improved on each of those measures during Bill Clinton's two terms, often substantially.
The Census' final report card on Bush's record presents an intriguing backdrop to today's economic debate. Bush built his economic strategy around tax cuts, passing large reductions both in 2001 and 2003. Congressional Republicans are insisting that a similar agenda focused on tax cuts offers better prospects of reviving the economy than President Obama's combination of some tax cuts with heavy government spending. But the bleak economic results from Bush's two terms, tarnish, to put it mildly, the idea that tax cuts represent an economic silver bullet.
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Posted by: LillianB on Sep 5, 2009 1:44 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: S 2028 house bill 108
Posted by: philosimphy
» RE: S 2028 house bill 108
Posted by: Ray Duray
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Posted by: philosimphy on Sep 5, 2009 2:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look at it from the Winger’s point of view:
When the dems come into power the wingers start to test their boundaries by acting out. If the acting out is tolerated, they start to wonder if there is anything the (A)uthority (F)igure won’t tolerate. Will the AF tolerate threats from outside sources?If the AF doesn’t have the balls to tell his own citizens to stop making trouble, will he have the balls to stop true enemies from making trouble? At the base of it is the worry that if the AF can’t even stand up to *us*, then he won’t have the balls to protect *us*.
They respect authority. They expect authority to keep people in line. ALL people, themselves included. That’s what I think a lot of people don’t realize.
The Authoritarians
Respect Mah Authoritah!
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» "The Authoritarians" by Bob Altmeyer
Posted by: Ray Duray
» Are they against government, or are they just against CORRUPT government???
Posted by: JohnTruth2001
» RE: The Authoritarians Web Site Link
Posted by: wmholt
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Posted by: swansong on Sep 5, 2009 3:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The politics of psychological manipulation... very fascinating series by Adam Curtis. Watch episode 4 on Reagan/Thatcher and Clinton/Blair eras and their methodological and ideological transformations.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?
docid=1122532358497501036&hl=undefined#
-------------------
The Trap
How did we get into this conspicuous situation, with its imbalances of power and wealth, and the populace brainwashed as docile consumers... This film expounds upon the deception that we are "free," and the insidious framework inherited from Cold War thinkers John Nash and RAND analysts that has undermined our very humanity. His use of historical footage and primary sources is impeccable.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?
docid=404227395387111085
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-
1087742888040457650
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-
7581348588228662817
-----------------------------
The Power of Nightmares
Incredible insight into the parallel rise of the Neoconservative and Islamic Fundamentalist movements, incredible footage and interviews as usual.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?
docid=4933960062431353720
http://video.google.com/videoplay?
docid=4602171665328041876
http://video.google.com/videoplay?
docid=2081592330319789254
FOR LINKS TO MORE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js39hh9OkpQ
http://www.rewtube.com
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» Brainwashed,Racist, and Stupid Versus "Psycho" Theories and Longwinded "Analyses"
Posted by: hadashito
» Yes, you are right...
Posted by: wmholt
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Posted by: jonodavidson on Sep 5, 2009 3:43 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would think that a true republican would support the right of their elected officials to represent the interests of the people in their various districts in the Congress. A democrat would support the direct rule of the majority in all decisions of the state in law. At least a republican form of government is one in which elected officials represent the people of their district in a general congress in a legislative assembly. A democratic form of government is where the people rule by the majority.
Having political parties claiming names describing a form of government really makes it difficult to understand the issues that are actually dividing a party. The parties are obviously agreed upon the form of government under which they are operating, so their names are not descriptive of their purposes. That means we elect people who are not representing anyone, and they pursue power for their own interests. Maybe the right wingers should be scared. Heck, I never know what our government will do next, but I am not being surprised.
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» RE: the right wing
Posted by: SteveA
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Posted by: ender on Sep 5, 2009 5:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Normally we can reject that which conflicts with our worldview with subconscious ease. When we are confronted with irrefutable proof or a logical argument, the parts of the brain associated with rational thinking will shut down (we get angry or fearful and start yelling) as a defensive measure because something that challenges a person's worldview is a direct threat against one's core identity. It is *much* easier to yell or ignore than it is to listen and reevaluate.
The GOP specifically targets and cultivates members who place high importance on the value of unquestioning faith (religion) and tradition (conservatives). Both religion and tradition inherently insulates it's members, leading to distrust and xenophobia that limits exposure and/or acceptance of new information with similar dogmatic exercises social reinforcement. The rules of social reinforcement - like the thought construct imposed on the followers - are reassuringly well defined, and are of course designed to self-perpetuate.
These people have been faced with a double whammy: their trusted good ol' boy fucked up the country so badly that a black man was elected by a landslide over a POW hero.
A more direct frontal assault on their collective psyche is hard to imagine, and at this point they are willing to believe anything: Sarah Palin is qualified, Obama is a secret Muslim, hates America, the birthers, the teabaggers, the Texas secessionists, the tenthers - who knows what crazy du jour we'll see tomorrow but I suspect rational people will continue to be horrified.
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» RE: Self Delusion
Posted by: SteveA
» RE: Self Delusion
Posted by: ender
» Did the Democrats used to do that?
Posted by: suprmark
» RE: Did the Democrats used to do that?
Posted by: Morell
» RE: Did the Democrats used to do that?
Posted by: ender
» RE: Did the Democrats used to do that?
Posted by: Morell
» RE: Did the Democrats used to do that?
Posted by: ender
» RE: Self Delusion uh oh picky nicky time
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Self Delusion uh oh picky nicky time
Posted by: ender
» Well said!
Posted by: wmholt
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Sep 5, 2009 5:51 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The trouble with progressives is not their quixotic campaigns. In fact, I have some respect for their energy and determination to do the right thing, despite the odds. Even if you fail, at least you've done the right thing.
What I find a waste of time and energy is their obsessive need to understand their enemies through reason and social science. And at the root of that appears to be an desperate need to have faith in the goodness of mankind and our intellects...and perhaps a latte-liberal need to feel intellectually superior.
Sometimes evil is just evil. And sometimes an idiot is just an idiot. Anyone who wastes his time fighting against his own interests and the legitimate interests of others can be safely written off as an evil idiot, regardless of whether his father didn't hug him enough...or hugged him too much...I'm sure many progressives didn't have nice childhoods either.
If you find getting into the heads of wing-nuts interesting and fun, that's cool. But I think doing so in order to "humanize" them or make excuses for their behavior is quixotic in a bad way. Hitler might have been a frustrated artist who had a fear of intimacy and a soft spot for animals and children, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a piece of crap.
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» RE: who can be safely written off?
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Sister, I'm certain you didn't mean it
Posted by: pauldd
» The "rational conservatives" have been marginalized by the same folks
Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: Brother, I absolutely didn't mean it
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Brother, I absolutely didn't mean it
Posted by: pauldd
» Progressives like to fix what's broken
Posted by: westomoon
» RE: Psychology
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: SteveA on Sep 5, 2009 6:31 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of today's conservatives were right there with Jimmy Carter, or Geo. McCovern, or Adlai Stevenson, or even FDR, until they learned better. Your time WILL come, I promise.
If you are not liberal when you're young, you have no heart! But - if you are not conservative when you are older, you have no brain!
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» RE: if you are a conservative when you are older, you have no brain!
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Lauren
Posted by: SteveA
» RE: Ever heard of Fouad Ajami?
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Nice Talking Point
Posted by: LeaderofMen
» RE: Leader of Men
Posted by: SteveA
» RE:WOW Steve A, you can handle more than one talking point at a time!
Posted by: blurider
» But You Rightwingers Trust the Corporations!
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: Americans Do NOT Trust their Government
Posted by: aichbe
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Posted by: LeaderofMen on Sep 5, 2009 7:10 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I say they are genetically programmed to be victims and follow their genetics to a T.
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» RE: teaching discrimination
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
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Posted by: L5 on Sep 5, 2009 7:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mandatory application process requirements for all elected public representatives before having their name placed on any public voting ballot would include;
All applicants applying for election to any office of public representation would be required to publicly disclose their medical, educational, military, tax, investment holdings, criminal arrest records and employment history before their name could be placed on any ballot.
All applicants would be required to meet the same psychological stability and physical fitness requirements that nuclear missile silo launch crew personnel are required to meet before being allowed near missile launch control panels.
All applicants would be required to reveal all domestic and foreign donors.
All applicants would be screened for sexual predatory/pedophile preferences and traits.
All applicants would be screened for fanatical religious, racist or cult beliefs.
Upon being elected all public representatives would be required to;
All elected representatives would be banned from all communications with any lobbyists, con-men, known liars, thieves, perverts, religious fanatics, corporation CEO’s, hookers and criminals, either directly or indirectly.
All elected representatives would be required to read in entirety…and pass a test on the content of each bill, with a grade of B+ or higher, before they can cast a vote for any legislation.
All elected representatives would be required to pass urine and breathalyzer tests before each vote they cast for any legislation and be subject to random substance abuse testing at all other times.
All elected representatives would be required to live in public housing while in Washington DC and public housing in their own districts when there, for the first year of their term.
All elected officials would be required to take public transportation and pay for all travel needs, local, national and international.
All elected officials would be required to pay for the most expensive and least effective health insurance plan with the highest co-payments available when they enter office.
All elected officials would be paid based on meeting quarterly performance requirement goals.
All elected officials would be exempt from obtaining any taxpayer supported pension plan while holding office…etc., etc., etc.
…Sort of sounds like what the rest of us have to go through when we apply for a job or what we have to endure to keep the jobs we have.
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» RE: At the heart of our national problems...
Posted by: philosimphy
» You lost Bill Clinton - & Obama
Posted by: SteveA
» RE: How's that exactly SteveO?? Got some more distortions, horse shit and drivel for us m'boy??
Posted by: blurider
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Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 5, 2009 8:18 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Dems have lost their "political cover" aka "security blanket"
Posted by: diof09
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Sep 5, 2009 8:38 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
'00 was stolen, '04 rigged. Cheney & Rummy Highjacked the Exec Branch.Now That has to piss the Righties off, to have your Pres called an Idiot and your VP essentially agree. Cheney pulled off a Coup the 1st 4 yrs.
Beyond that we called his admin Nazi's,Fascists and even compared him to Hitler (Cheney as Darth- destroyer of Planets).Worse we are beginning to see the Left was not too far off the mark. Controlling Media, Undermining Congress' Oversight and powers, Rendition, Black Sites, Torture , Domestic Spying, Rejecting Federal laws and International treaties, Invading a country without cause, and of course absolutely no regard for the planet...
Bush and Cheney are not only the Worst Top dogs this country's ever seen, they are the most criminal. They have the potential to face numerous high crimes- domestically and internationally. These Right Wingers cheered them on all the way. Called those who opposed their criminal activities "Unpatriotic".But that didn't suffice, they had to take it a step further and justify the atrocities with 'Christian' passages.
The Revelations coming out about the Conspiracy of lies during the last admin has not only blown their political minds, but also their religious minds."Crusade", Bible passages on miltiary Ops. If Bush and Cheney are found guilty of Treason,War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity (etc etc)-It will also be an indictment against those who wholeheartedly supported their action with Scripture!
The only way to rectify the situation, or at least lessen the mental blow, (since they can not stop investigations and prosectuions) is to make the Next Pres and Admin look as bad or worse.
These Townhollers, teabagger,'deathers' and 'Birthers' are people on the verge of a fundmental psychiatric breakdown.
Come on they are already showing signs of schizophrenia- Medicare is Gov't run, everyone knows this. LBJ, a democrat, Created the program- everyone knows this too. yet these 'seniors' hate gov't run programs?
Further proof is in the Fact these 'Christians' are calling for 'soldiers' and 'Armies' of Christ?? Ahhhh- Dudes Christ never weilded a weapon, nor recruited soldiers or mounted armies....That was the Romans.In fact if you believe Revelations He doesn't need such things in the 'final battle' either.So who ya 'packin' For??
These folks are collectively in a mental meltdown- everything they believed has been proven wrong- treasonous, criminal, heretical. So they are trying to double down on the 'Old song & dance'in hopes they can convince everyone else they are still the most patriotic and Devote.
Two thing separate the Bat shit Left from the Bat shit Right- First Lefties no longer resort to violence.Even though we like to act like we would, we are not avid Gun enthusiasts, in general. Second we are not motivated, collectively, by a Religous doctrine, which determines our eternal salavation or damnation.
Lets Be honest, Some of Us were getting a lil' crazy during Cheney's reign of terror- looking over our shoulders, sure our PC's were under surveillance (who knows we may still be proven rational on some of these 'paranoias'). But the Election of Obama helped ease our fears, and even some hatreds.
These Right Wingers need someone in leadership to counsel them on how to square the last 8 yrs in their own minds. How to live with the realization that they had all been duped and in ways complicite by failing to perform the duties of a citizen in a democracy. To be informed, to question 'authority' and demand real answers. But instead of asking this of the ones who decieved them, they have turned this new found civics exercise on the Next Admin, instead.
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» RE: Pay Backs Are a Crazy bitch
Posted by: wagnerrocks@gmail.com
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Posted by: Robert Wales, Ph.D. on Sep 5, 2009 9:54 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2.) We, as a fundamentally Christian nation are susceptible to guilt, as in original sin etc. Many issues involving our government are couched in such a way as to tap into that guilt,eg., 'save water-take short showers' when, in fact, industry and agriculture utilize over 90% of available potable water. 'Support the troops' is another one of many shining examples of this dynamic.
3.) Divergence between culture and government is a widening chasm wherein we-the-people struggle for more civility while the government continuously becomes more aggressive and intolerant of our very existence and that of other countries. These may very well lead to our final unraveling.
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» RE: obert Wales Ph.D.
Posted by: Morell
» RE: obert Wales Ph.D.
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE:Quite right professor, except for one detail! It's not 'pure' government which acts against the
Posted by: blurider
» RE: If it weren't for the corporate world we'd be the power behind OUR government.
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» At least you recognize we are fundamentally a christian nation
Posted by: jonodavidson
» RE: At least you recognize we are fundamentally a christian nation
Posted by: jonodavidson
» RE: obert Wales Ph.D.
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: Prinzowhales on Sep 5, 2009 10:22 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And, is mercury so good for your children that it must be injected into their little arms? YOUR goverment thinks so...YOUR goverment thinks that wars based on lies are necessary for your freedom...YOUR goverment tells you that Osama bin Laden is alive and well...YOUR goverment tells you that a kerosine fire in the WTC can pulverize concrete and melt steel...YOUR goverment told you that the air was fine after 9-11...YOUR goverment tells you that free trade is great for the economy...
Trust goverment? Are you kidding? Millions dead under the Communists in China....Millions dead in the gulags...Millions dead in the concentration camps...Syphillis tested on black men...US soldiers radiated watching atomic bomb explosions...Sephardic Jewish children murdered and maimed by Ashkenazi Zionist Regime in Tel Aviv with X-ray machines provided by the US...
TRUST GOVERMENT??!! That is quite irrational... It could well be described as insane.
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» RE: DISTRUST AND FEAR OF GOVERMENT IS QUITE RATIONAL...
Posted by: Perry Logan
» you are not rational
Posted by: Juven
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Posted by: magistre on Sep 5, 2009 10:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» I agree. Great article and real dangers
Posted by: Bob Horn
» RE: I agree. Great article and real dangers
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
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Posted by: suprmark on Sep 5, 2009 12:38 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Interesting piece. I didn't really appreciate that the only viable solution seemed to be to simply fight though.
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Posted by: Portlyric on Sep 5, 2009 12:38 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(their code word for weak)get's attacked just like a bigger animal attacks and dominates a smaller one. They only resent their abusers because they cannot be the abuser themselves. By aligning themselves with loud, hate infused power they feel powerful. They are Darwinian throwbacks who walk on their hindlegs. They receive education but are never educated. Corporations know exactly how to manipulate them by appealing to their ruling base instincts. They measure their happiness and success primarily by the comparative suffering of others. That is why they don't object when someone else's kid gets killed in Iraq or others die because they lack healthcare. They have chosen to behave like selfish animals instead of humans who possess a spark of divinity. Even my dogs behave better. Read John Gray's, Strawdogs. I don't agree with everything Gray says but it's certainly a reality check.
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Posted by: bill6117 on Sep 5, 2009 1:21 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: sdz on Sep 5, 2009 1:53 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. Enslavement
2. Ethnic and racial cleansing, aggressive war-making and other Crimes against humanity
3. Development and use of WMD
4. Torture
5. Unlawful and unnecessary surveillance
Etc.
There are, then, reasons to check a state's power. After all, what would we expect the well-placed paranoids to do when they get massive and unchecked power? Act like Bush and Cheney, the neocons, etc.! And yet, how often does an individual's paranoia reflect realistic concerns about the world? One may wonder about this given the irrationality of the reactionary right who believe a cautious and conservative President like Obama has it in for them! This is what makes them dangerous: They wish to look into the vanity mirror to see their own reflection while holding all of the cards. "That way madness lies," Lear exclaimed. He, at least, opted to remain sane. But the same cannot be said about America's reactionaries.
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Posted by: blurider on Sep 5, 2009 2:40 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To any real degree that government isn't 'by and for' the people as expressed in our ideal of democracy - to any degree that the concerns of the left OR the right (as ordinary citizens) are left unattended, it's because of the influence of corporations.
I submit that there are NO totally 'pure' pols on either side - as demonstrated by the mere fact that they got elected in this corporate run world - and that the differences are only a matter of degree! That the left is only a little more virginal because they caught on to how to compete in that environment later than the right.
Historically corporations were the merchant class's way to compete in commerce, against the ruling elites who had 'cornered' all resources and markets. Then after some serious success and total intimidation of the ruling class, they saw that they'd better get on the side of the corporate world. It's been downhill ever since as the power of that 'partnership' grew and the glimmer of democracy has only shown a little, in the deceived citizen's eyes since then!
Today, the farmer, teacher, artist, artisan or blue collar worker who favors the right is deluded alright but only a little more so than the left leaning citizen who is at a severe disadvantage to try to change things.
Just a few moments of thought leads to the conclusion that without this influence there is simply no reason why government wouldn't, couldn't or doesn't literally fall all over themselves to, serve the people precisely as we have so naively, come to expect!
If it weren't for the corporate world we'd be the power behind OUR government.
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Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Sep 5, 2009 2:54 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Conservatives are united. Progressives and liberals aren't.
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
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Posted by: crowepps on Sep 5, 2009 3:59 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: crowepps
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
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Posted by: drricklippin on Sep 5, 2009 4:17 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Their world view is one of fear- not hope
They have an immature and extreme fear of death which pervades all of their politics.
They really never grew up. And actually they can't.
That is why we must focus on future generations. Our only hope?
Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa
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» RE: THESE PEOPLE ARE LIBERALS!!
Posted by: SteveA
» RE: THESE PEOPLE ARE LIBERALS!!
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: THESE PEOPLE ARE LIBERALS!!
Posted by: SteveA
» RE:DUH...! THESE PEOPLE ARE LIBERALS!!
Posted by: kanekoa64
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Posted by: westomoon on Sep 5, 2009 8:29 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It always turned out that the fear of abortion was a thin skin over the fear of euthanasia -- the "right to lifers" deep passion was a passion for saving their own lives. Nearly every single one of these hundreds of discussions devolved very quickly into "abortion leads to euthanasia and my children will kill me when I'm old."
I am not offering conclusions here, just wanted to share this observation -- the fear of killing unwanted adults has been vivid for along time among these folks, and they have been assuming all along that they'd be the unwanted adults. I guess it's easier to slam on as many controls as they can, rather than exert themselves to be likable.
And really, when you look at people like Tom DeLay, Ted Haggard, and Turd Blossom, how wrong do you suppose they really are in assuming that the people who are stuck with them want them dead?
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» RE: I told my husband it was a cultural difference
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
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Posted by: jonodavidson on Sep 6, 2009 2:36 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem we are having in our society is that there is no respect for the authority of God over his creation by the liberals who live here. They deny that America is a Christian nation and persuade themselves that God had nothing to do with this nation's founding. They have convinced themselves that God is only an idea that people have propagated through custom and practice.
If a liberal were willing to consider the facts concerning the bonds that unite us as a people with an open-mind in order to discover the true nature of those bonds, then he would discover the means by which he can become empowered by God to take action.
The British had the finest infantry in the world, supported by the most powerful navy. They had defeated all challengers to the rights to control the east india company. The empire was at the height of power and a superpower to be reckoned with by any nation on earth. The loss of the American colonies did not diminish its power as a nation state after America had established its independence, for they were still capable of defeating Napoleon for control over Europe.
The colonists, on the other hand, did not have any formal army of its own. They had fought their previous battles on the frontier by forming militias in support of the British war machine. They had not tried to provocate the British into battle, but they had resisted government infringements upon their rights for over a decade prior to the first fights in 1775. The British invaded Massachusetts and occupied Boston in response to the Boston Tea Party on December 16, 1773.
The manner in which the colonial militias challenged the British forces for control in Boston is remarkable. For they did not try to seize Boston back by force. Nor did they even seek to engage the British forces who occupied Boston in battle. Instead, they stole onto Breed's Hill under the cover of night and spent the night digging field fortifications from which to defend the hill on the outskirts of Boston. The British soldiers attacked the Colonists, while dressed in full parade uniform and carrying over a hundred pounds of gear. They took the hill on the second charge when the colonists ran out of ammo.
The Declaration of Independence was drafted and signed about two weeks later. They called upon the Supreme Judge of the World for the rectitude of their intentions. God answered their call. He heard them pray. He empowered them to overcome their enemies. He established them by his might, so that America was not simply annexed back into the British Empire after the British burned the White House down to the ground. The founding fathers sailed to Europe so quickly seeking to sue for peace that they never heard the news of the British defeat in New orleans.
You liberals establish an understanding of the basic principles that were stated in the declaration of independence, and you appeal to the far-right using those principles as the basis for unifying our entire nation, and we will bring the government under our own sovereign control. You must believe in the principles even if you cannot believe in God. That is the path to power that has been our birthright and heritage, and your refusal to accept that God is almighty undermines your own authority.
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» RE: you lost me at god
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: The root of the problem is in the government
Posted by: SteveA
» RE: The root of the problem is in the government
Posted by: mkdelta69
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Posted by: TSGuy on Sep 6, 2009 6:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense. ( Miller, 1993 , p. 4)
"In 1995, McArthur Wheeler walked into two Pittsburgh banks and robbed them in broad daylight, with no visible attempt at disguise. He was arrested later that night, less than an hour after videotapes of him taken from surveillance cameras were broadcast on the 11 o'clock news. When police later showed him the surveillance tapes, Mr. Wheeler stared in incredulity. "But I wore the juice," he mumbled. Apparently, Mr. Wheeler was under the impression that rubbing one's face with lemon juice rendered it invisible to videotape cameras ( Fuocco, 1996 ).
...
Perhaps more controversial is the third point, the one that is the focus of this article. We argue that when people are incompetent in the strategies they adopt to achieve success and satisfaction, they suffer a dual burden: Not only do they reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the ability to realize it. Instead, like Mr. Wheeler, they are left with the mistaken impression that they are doing just fine."
The rest of the article details the testing and results.
In short, people who are incompetent at a task also lack the 'metacognitive' ability to recognize they are incompetent at a task. Paradoxically, the skills required to gain that metacognitive ability come from an increased knowledge of the topic:
"Study 4 also revealed a paradox. It suggested that one way to make people recognize their incompetence is to make them competent. Once we taught bottom-quartile participants how to solve Wason selection tasks correctly, they also gained the metacognitive skills to recognize the previous error of their ways. Of course, and herein lies the paradox, once they gained the metacognitive skills to recognize their own incompetence, they were no longer incompetent."
Not only do these people fail to understand they are working against their own best-interests, they may not even have the ability to see that as a problem.
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Posted by: mtcloud on Sep 6, 2009 6:48 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Click Here For Waking Up From the Trance of
Social and Scientific Orthodox Propaganda
- 9/11 had no corporate federal, local government planning, funding and participation
-less freedom of speech,thought and action
-government access to all of our financial records in lieu of "health care reform". Which is the same insurance companies with a new look.
-government control of the internet. The government can shut down the internet immediately for what say is an emergency. The hardware is being installed for this RIGHT NOW.
-personal gun ownership is wrong. Yet our federal and local police forces now regularly kill people with tasers and increased firepower.
Wake Up before your loved one is burned alive, blown to death like my brother (Geoffrey Cloud WTC 9-11) was by our corporate federal, local government of murderers, liars. Once you have the guts to believe the truth, you won't accept anything the government says through mainstream news like FOX,CNN and Alternet
Michael Cloud
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Posted by: Lilly on Sep 6, 2009 7:25 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This Jerry Springer Show-type gang of rabid screamers has certainly derailed national health care and may have shut it down. They have effected the resignation of some of Obama's appointees. They have been instrumental in the watering-down of policies put forth by an administration that currently controls Washington. They have been gloriously successful in painting the President as Socialist, Communist, Black Militant, non-citizen, Muslim, and Anti-Christ. They have convinced much of the nation that Obama intends forcible vaccination and mercy-killing, to name only two of many preposterous claims. Right now they are controlling the debate around whether or not the President of the United States may advise our youth to stay in school and study hard, so pernicious an image has the right wing succeeded in giving a democratically elected President.
To me this has been a watershed summer when mainstream media and Congressmen began picking up the right-wing message and broadcasting it in prime time. In the 1960's the John Birchers were generally regarded as nuts. Now, statements more bizarre than anything stated then are given respect and serious media coverage. A development which, BTW, Robert Paxton defines as Stage Three in the development of a Fascist society---when the words of Rush Limbaugh are seriously repeated on the floor of the United States Congress and the inmates begin taking over the asylum.
I wonder how many liberals still believe, along our nephew and Anne Frank and Dr Pangloss, that people are basically good and that we live in the best of all possible worlds. And I find myself remembering a passage in Elie Weisel's "Night" when young Elie's father says, "So we have to wear a yellow armband? So what? You don't die of that." Weisel reports this memory of his long-ago past. Then he steps back into the present to muse, "Poor father: of what, then, did you die?".
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» RE: Liberal Blinders
Posted by: SteveA
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Posted by: Robert Wales, Ph.D. on Sep 6, 2009 7:51 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» You certainly are impressed with yourself
Posted by: jonodavidson
» He *should* be proud of his Ph.D.
Posted by: wmholt
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Posted by: willymack on Sep 6, 2009 9:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What we have here is one group of people whining because some meanie or meanies stole their candy, and another afraid to confront the meanie(s) because that would CHANGE everything.
It's the CHANGE-even for the better-that's feared.
The fear is born of IGNORANCE, ignorance of even the most basic knowlege of what's in our Constitution, our history, and how our government works, or fails to work.
Any real and lasting solution to our self-inflicted woes MUST begin with a first-rate education for ALL. This must be sustained on a constant basis until our people are as educated as those of, let's say Japan or France, to name two well-educated nations.
Ignorance, especially willful and arrogant ignorance was warned against and predicted by George Orwell in his prophetic book "1984".
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
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Posted by: Tim V on Sep 6, 2009 9:46 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2. If someone is blaming himself for strictly self-destructive behavior (or is projecting this blame onto others) a good therapeautic technique might be to point out that the harm they've caused themselves is often a more-than-adequate penalty for their erroneous behavior, so they should cease the blame game entirely.
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Posted by: reelectnoone on Sep 6, 2009 10:11 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know you have read the stories of people denied live saving drugs by their insurance companies because it was too expensive.
Isn't this the real "Death Panel" we want so hard to blame on Obama and Congress? It is real but it is the very people who don't want change who sit on those panels. Now they are sitting on another panel to bring death to reform.
These people can't get enough death...they want more !
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» More death panels coming from Wall Street, too
Posted by: westomoon
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Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Sep 6, 2009 10:57 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unfortunately to many maximum freedom means relatively little freedom at all. In the case of a patient, they can refuse treatment, citizens are not so free to decide when it comes to their government.
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» RE: Also a note on codependency
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
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Posted by: DaBear on Sep 6, 2009 4:51 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's the missing ink in all of this. Bader's final few paragraphs sums up the solution. Toss in a little Sara Robinson and viola, we have the delicious dish we've all been smelling from the dining room but had no idea what it could be.
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Posted by: pincheguru on Sep 6, 2009 9:57 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeah, they may not be the sharpest knives in the drawer, but they're at least smart enough to be aware that a) they are unequipped to make sense of the world around them, b) they aren't as attractive as they think they should be in a society that over-values appearance, c) they can't buy most of the shiny stuff that have become symbols of success in America, d) they aren't well liked in social circles, or e) all of the above. In short, they feel pretty crappy about themselves. A lot of it has to do with advertising, I think. Each day these people get inundated with ads and TV sitcoms that make them feel that they are, well, "losers". Each day brings another punishing blow to their self-worth. It eats away at a man (and lets face it - most of these people are males).
And then comes Beck, Rush, Hannity, and the rest of these vultures... and suddenly these otherwise dumpy, loathsome ninnies who have never been allowed to run the deep fryer unsupervised now have been entrusted with a mission of utmost importance: save America from the fascist/terrorist/communist threat!
In their everyday real lives, they may just be poor white trash with nothing going for them, no hope of a future, and no accomplishments to be proud of. But when they listen to wing-nut hate radio, they are told they are the "salt of the earth", "the Real Patriots", "the Good Citizen with a Morally Just Cause." It is all very flattering.
Having not much to be proud of personally, the movement conservatives take great pride in being Americans... and being white. Nothing helps lagging self-esteem more than to perceive oneself a member of group supposedly superior to another group. The Southern Poverty Law Center understands this psychology well.
Wing-nut radio and TV feeds this innate need for something to be proud of, adding large doses of melodrama that are as addictive as crack to those who have been starving for anything of real substance in their otherwise numbingly dull existences.
When they listen to wing-nut media, they are transformed from dim, weak, insecure, and unaccomplished losers who find themselves utterly lost in a world incomprehensibly complex to them... into Confident, Proud, White American Patriots, entrusted to honorably defend Freedom and God's Law. It's an irresistable formula.
We can talk all night about what it is about our society that produces so many folks who feel such low self-worth. That's a more complex issue. But what's far less complex is that movement conservatism in this country is simply about lending a sense of pride - however false - to people who desperately need it.
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Posted by: Juven on Sep 7, 2009 3:39 PM
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» RE: the government must go
Posted by: Morell
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Posted by: jlowelld on Sep 8, 2009 2:59 PM
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Posted by: whealeydj on Sep 8, 2009 5:02 PM
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Posted by: Ahimsa on Sep 8, 2009 7:40 PM
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Let them eat shit.
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Posted by: georgekat on Sep 9, 2009 4:39 AM
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Provides good reason to get rid of psychotherapy and psychotherapists.
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» RE: george
Posted by: Morell
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Posted by: nobyjingo on Sep 12, 2009 2:18 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Adolph Hitler's frame in "Mein Kampf": "“At that time I (Adolph Hitler) adopted the standpoint: It makes no difference whatever, whether they laugh at us or revile us, whether they represent us as clowns or criminals; the main thing is that they mention us, that they concern themselves with us again and again, and that we gradually in the eyes of the workers themselves appear to be the only power that anyone reckons with at the moment. What we really are and what we really want, we will show the wolves of the Jewish press when the time comes.”
Adolph Hitler's frame in "Mein Kampf": “One can never count on protection on the part of the authorities; on the contrary, experience shows that it always and exclusively benefits the disturbers. For the sole actual result of intervention by the authorities—- that is, the police—- was at best to dissolve, in other words, to close the meeting. And that was the sole aim and purpose of the hostile disturbers.”
Adolph Hitler's frame in "Mein Kampf": “If through some sort of threats it becomes known to the authorities that there is danger of a meeting being broken up, they do not arrest the threateners, but forbid the others, the innocent, to hold the meeting, and what is more, the run-of-mill police mind is mighty proud of such wisdom. They call this a ‘precautionary measure for the prevention of an illegal act.’ Thus, the determined gangster is always in a position to make political activity and efforts impossible for decent people. In the name of Law and Order, the State Authority gives it to the gangster and requests the others please not to provoke him.”
"Mein Kampf" the Playbook used by Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS in the United States is not being used innocently against the liberals -- the Right-Wing is trying to do a Weimar thing on President Obama and the liberals. President Obama and the liberal legislators using Neville Chamberlain type appeasement of the Right-Wing EXTREMISTS will only be thought of as weakness by the Hitleresque Right-Wing EXTREMISTS, just the same as happened to Neville Chamberlain when he thought he had negotiated "Peace in our time" for England --- the Right-Wing EXTREMISTS are after power and nothing else will do..
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Posted by: lafrance on Sep 13, 2009 9:02 PM
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They saw government as benevolent. They grew up during the depression and saw the benefits of government.
The generation that now fights so hard against government are baby boomers.
They came of age when anti establishment, evil government that does war and is big brother was the thinking.
Government in the form of FBI, CIA and those abuses being uncovered.
Government and the 68 riots.
Government and Nixon.
This the generation that changed society grew into one that is overly timid and cautious and clings to the status quo.
However, they never lost their fear and hate of the government and are the generation that embraced conspiracy theories the most.
Baby boomers were the generation that if it came into vogue or was better known of back in the 60s and 70s, most would have embraced: Libertarianism.
But, it not being a well known political movement, in the 70s became more and more republican and worshipping conservativism and Reagan.
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Posted by: aichbe on Sep 14, 2009 12:38 AM
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It always seemed that the Republicans I knew had formed strong opinions based on not much information, and had problems understanding, let alone accepting, a different perspective, even if legitimate proof was offered. I have frequently tried to lend books, tapes, and other media which had relevance to the discussion and which expressed a progressive point of view, but got a "no thanks" numerous times. It was sort of,"I'm not even looking because I know what I'll find" attitude.
I am, as are many others on the left, able to honestly see the other side of an issue, and if the new data I perceive is better than what I had, I'll adjust my position. I have improved my levels of tolerance of some things, and am less tolerant of others. I can even watch FOX without flinching, for a while. I guess it's hard to understand why conservatives can't even see another way to look at things, and DON'T fucking want to talk about it. Turns out, they're fucking NUTS! Who knew??
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Posted by: timenotonmyside on Sep 14, 2009 5:38 AM
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It's not a record many Republicans are likely to point to with pride.
On every major measurement, the Census Bureau report shows that the country lost ground during Bush's two terms. While Bush was in office, the median household income declined, poverty increased, childhood poverty increased even more, and the number of Americans without health insurance spiked. By contrast, the country's condition improved on each of those measures during Bill Clinton's two terms, often substantially.
The Census' final report card on Bush's record presents an intriguing backdrop to today's economic debate. Bush built his economic strategy around tax cuts, passing large reductions both in 2001 and 2003. Congressional Republicans are insisting that a similar agenda focused on tax cuts offers better prospects of reviving the economy than President Obama's combination of some tax cuts with heavy government spending. But the bleak economic results from Bush's two terms, tarnish, to put it mildly, the idea that tax cuts represent an economic silver bullet.
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When Will Obama Stop Trying to Work with Republicans?
Sarah Palin Aims to Bust Up the Republican Party -- And the Tea Party Movement
White Racial Resentment Bubbles Under the Surface of the Tea Party Movement




