COMMENTS: 82
Opponents of Health Reform: Stupid, Greedy or Just Gullible?
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The right is very stupid, or very greedy, or very gullible on the issue of health care.
Clearly, for executives of insurance companies, greed is the predominant factor. Small-business owners (and many large ones) who oppose universal health care with a public option are simply stupid, since our current system of providing health insurance for workers through the private sector costs them far more than their competitors in other countries, and put us at a competitive disadvatage.
And the ordinary Joe and Jane the Plumber who rail against socialism and death panels and so forth and so on simply are extremely gullible. Otherwise, they would know that one of the the leading causes of individual bankruptcies are the massive expenses of a family medical crisis, and many of those people had insurance.
We are told the United States the best health care system in the world. Yet we spend 20 percent or more on administrative costs, when most other developed countries spend less than half that. (Heck, in Taiwan they have a single-payer system in which the administrative costs are 2 percent; and those so-called inept Canadians with their "socialist" system spend 6 percent.)
We don't have universal coverage. We often have long waits to see specialists, when people in other countries often can see a specialist within the same day. The scare tactic that health care is "rationed" in many other developed countries with universal health care coverage is simply a myth:
In France and Japan ... patients can go to any doctor, any hospital, any traditional healer. There are no U.S.-style limits such as "in-network" lists of doctors or "pre-authorization" for surgery. You pick any doctor, you get treatment -- and insurance has to pay.
The truth is that if there is any rationing going on, it's already happening here in America. And it is the insurance-company bureaucrats who are making the decisions to deny coverage to protect their companies' profits:
When an insurance company denies coverage because of a pre-existing condition, it is rationing health care. When it "rescinds" coverage -- telling a client with a serious, expensive medical issue that it is canceling his or her policy -- it is rationing health care. When an insurance company refuses to pay for a particular procedure or medicine, it is rationing health care. When uninsured people are turned away from hospitals and doctors' offices, health care is being rationed. (And if anybody thinks that doesn't happen, remember those long lines in Los Angeles when doctors offered free care to the uninsured. That was a lot of suppressed demand for health care that people could not acquire through other means.)
Our health insurance premiums outpace the cost of inflation and wage growth and are expected to double by 2020. And that's with companies that do their darnedest to not cover major medical conditions by excluding people with pre-existing conditions (a somewhat broadly defined term) or the ugly process of rescission, and where small businesses often see dramatic rises in their insurance costs from year to year.
And not just by insurance companies, but by states too cheap to fully fund their Medicaid mandates, thus condemning many people to death if the procedure they need is not covered:
The truth is, health care is already rationed in the States -- by individuals struggling to afford even basic cover, by companies negotiating (or refusing) benefits, by government agencies trying to balance budgets. For many years, I lived in a state where the legislature ranked and rated, by price, procedures people on aid could receive and refused to cover anything deemed too expensive.
Even if, as the papers frequently reported, it meant letting adorable little children die. But since it is America, you can shop around. Just across the border in a different state, the legislature decreed that pre-existing conditions could not be excluded or made the subject of increased charges under insurance plans, leading me and many others to migrate a few miles to get a better deal.
And did you know that 1 in 4 families in America affected by a family member's cancer condition are delayed needed treatment due to cost barriers? Or that in the last year one-third of cancer patients in being treated in America cut pills or skipped doses of their medications? That one-quarter delayed a recommended cancer screening, and one-fifth did not fill a prescription? The American Cancer Society Cancer Action Network does.
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Posted by: johnwinthrop on Aug 29, 2009 2:49 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama has lied his way into creating alleged problems that either don't exist or are far smaller than he claims. Obama's legacy is the issue not the quality of US health care which is excellent.
So why do those Canadians come to the US to get care they can't get in Canada? thelathuaahis
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» RE: Obviously a more caring planet than you!
Posted by: Jaipurr
» RE: Obviously a more caring planet than you!
Posted by: nonaste
» RE: what planet are you on?
Posted by: mercianomad
» RE: what planet are you on?
Posted by: BeckyD
» RE: what planet are you on?
Posted by: MindyB
» RE: what planet are you on?
Posted by: MindyB
» RE: what planet are you on?Not yours thanks goodness!
Posted by: MindyB
» Well Over 80% of Our People
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» are you insane???
Posted by: ellie
» RE: are you insane???
Posted by: gathaiga
» so why do those Americans go to India to get care?
Posted by: hurricane hugo
» what planet are YOU on?
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Are your retarded or a professional liar
Posted by: Bob Horn
» 80 percent? Sounds like parrot talk to me.
Posted by: xvictor
» Excuse me but even more social conservatives are crying for single payer.
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» RE: what planet are you on?
Posted by: Mr. G
» RE: what planet are you on?
Posted by: Morell
» Many of the top doctors in the world are located there
Posted by: suprmark
» RE: what planet are you on?
Posted by: MT512
» Get a cure for your fucking Kool-Aid. Can you read? think? synthesize information? Dolt!
Posted by: thekidde
» RE: what planet are you on?
Posted by: johnmont
» RE: what planet are you on?
Posted by: acmwallace
Comments are closed-
Posted by: raine1 on Aug 29, 2009 4:11 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"I am in full support of the health care plan and reform. In fact I think it does not go far enough and feel that a single payer plan would reduce costs immeasurably. I am blessed to have insurance through the State of Florida and Capital Health Plan (look it up), one of the top-rated insurance firms in the nation. It has demonstrated that an insurance company can provide superb coverage, wellness care, and still be profitable. Several of the big-name insurance companies are complaining that they can’t get a foothold here in Tallahassee because of CHP.
My husband was diagnosed with colon cancer two years ago and they saw us through 4 surgeries (2 minor for port entry and removal for chemo) and chemo for 6 months. In conference with the oncologist, he asked, “Who is your healthcare with?” When we responded with CHP, he smiled and told us that all options were available to us and took us through the gamut of options. We were so fortunate that my husband had left his job and United Healthcare. I picked up his insurance with CHP and we were out of pocket less than five thousand dollars. With United Healthcare we would have lost our home because the costs would have been in the mid five figures and may not have covered the treatment he received. My husband chose the most aggressive chemotherapy and so far he is clear. During chemo, we met a man, with insurance, that couldn’t continue with the chemo treatments because it was bankrupting his family. He knew that discontinuing the treatment would almost certainly cost him his life but he wouldn’t leave his wife and kids homeless. We cried with him."
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» RE: regarding health care reform
Posted by: MindyB
» RE: regarding health care reform
Posted by: willymack
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Posted by: SufiLizard on Aug 29, 2009 5:32 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Short answer? Most of them don't. That's another myth propagated by the right-wing liars.
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» RE: To the guy from Fantasy Land above
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» Some do, but the other side...
Posted by: james108
» No real solutions
Posted by: freshlemon
» Here in Michigan, the traffic, especially busloads of seniors buying drugs, heads the other way
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: drricklippin on Aug 29, 2009 6:23 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You omitted a huge predominant factor which is fear and fear of change at least among the masses.That is one on the central features of the conservative psyche.(The CEOS of the disease industries are driven by pure greed but know how to play the fear card)
When fear is mongered and kicks in the rational brain shuts down.
Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa
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Posted by: cori on Aug 29, 2009 6:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our health care system is broken, everyone knows it and tens of millions of lives are at stake. We are the ONlY developed nation in the world who does not have free health care for their people. This is moral imperitve. What is a government for and why do we pay taxes if it is not for us to be protected? We must fight for this. They have been trying to deprive the American people of national health care for decades and we, as a broken people, who can't even get out there and march will bend over once again and allow big pharma and health insurance companies to make TRILLIONS off sick and dying Americans! You want lousy health care or no health care? Do you want to pay $10,000 per yr for catasrophic that might not cover you anyway. These industries don't care if you die in the gutter- we pay taxes but none of it goes to us!
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» RE: We are in the midst of a humanitarian crisis
Posted by: ankhet
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Posted by: sherry on Aug 29, 2009 6:46 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Attending one town hall meeting reveals what all the fuss is about. These yellers and ranters lost an election, worse yet they lost it to a black man, their worst fear come true. They didn't have any power to begin with, but they lost the delusion of power. They are like wounded, cornered animals, snarling and slashing.
Talking facts, telling true stories, none of that will work with them. Instead we need to spend our time convincing the Democrats to do their job. That's the roadblock we should be concerned about. And when they don't, we need to get out of the house and back candidates with a backbone instead of a corporate-funded campaign account.
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» RE: defeat
Posted by: aussidawg
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Posted by: parrotuya on Aug 29, 2009 6:54 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: wtfo on Aug 29, 2009 9:16 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You can bet that almost any "changes" will be minor and implementation-delayed so that the current Health-Insurers will have time to adapt to the changes - which I am pretty sure will be done similar to how the credit card companies are currently "adapting" to the upcoming new laws to limit their previous gouging of their customers. You can also bet your bottom dollar that you will continue to pay more for less - until you can get some relief at age 65 (if you make it to that age).
Finally, you can also be assured that when those who were so opposed to rational changes finally experience the fruits of their "win" they will STILL look to the "markets" to square things away...
The rest of the civilized world will probably also continue to shake their heads at our foolishness and immorality (all in the name of capitalism and in fear of "government"). Oh, and they will probably get prepared to shut down their borders in anticipation of a mad rush of those in the USA who finally have given up and are looking for a better place to live.
Anybody who has an ounce of intelligence MUST have realized by now that other countries have a better system but we resolutely refuse to consider adopting some of their best practices. Our main problem here is that we only look at healthcare as a cost to society and not as a necessary right that firstly, HAS to be provided to all citizens, and THEN figure out how to provide these services most efficiently and with the lowest per capita costs.
Don't believe me? Check out T.R. Reid's interview on PBS's 28 August broadcast of "The Newshour" - available on the PBS Newshour's web site video.pbs.org.
It is simply an update of his earlier Frontline Documentary "Sick Around the World" and an announcement of his new book "The Healing of America: A Global Quest for Better, Cheaper, and Fairer Health Care".
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Posted by: zrants on Aug 29, 2009 9:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
linked text
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Posted by: james108 on Aug 29, 2009 10:30 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They took single payer off the table. Obama made deals with big pharma to keep drug prices up, for some vague 1% reduction of the 100% increase they plan, if you want to get into it. They didn't agree to cut a dollar out of what's being spent, and in fact, Obama was called upon to block potential cost saving legislation, which is supposed to be Congress's job.
Is Alternet really this blind? The democrats do not represent reform, but more tricks. Why do Alternet's "progressive" voices ignore the half trillion cut in medicare being proposed, and paint seniors as dumb for doing the math? How can they stand for the thousands fighting for single payer being ignored? How can they keep asking us to blindly trust someone who's conned us so far at every turn. Compromise is OK, but you have to be honest of what you're actually fighting for, or reform is a word you can use on change, be it for good or bad. This is no compromise to single payer since they're not allowed to compare, scorecard or testify on it. It's like the debates, where you only allow specific, elite blessed choices, and call it hope and change.
Without any discussion of our options, there is no real reform. As long as the democrats try to strangle out any progressive options for their own corporate monopoly, it doesn't count as reform. So why are the democrats against reform, and want to paint an elephant blue and call it reform, and why are you helping them?
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Aug 29, 2009 11:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: ReallyBearish on Aug 29, 2009 12:36 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Basic Instincts on Aug 29, 2009 12:44 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
* 50% or less of people in countries touting nationalized health care are satisfied with their current government program.
* Most of the countries WITH government health care are looking for ways OUT. The UK, where the approval rate of their care is low, employ 1.4 million health care administrators and this voting block would have to vote themselves out of a job to achieve what we already have.
* The US Government at present pays(but not really) for 51% of all the health care delivered.
* For the last ten consecutive years the US Government has voted to reduce the fee for service of health care provided, knowing the greedy insurance companies/hospitals(many not- for- profit but still greedy) would be forced to raise your rates to makeup for the shortfall. You or your employer get hit for Government health care in your paycheck, and then again in expensive increases to make up for the government's hidden "tax" in your insurance premium. The same government screaming for reform because insurance is too expensive is driving up the cost.
* The government/ Medicare is shockingly complacent when it comes to checking if services billed for are even EVER delivered.
Loss to the taxpayer in fraudulent claims is reported in the billions of dollars and over the last ten years? Trillions.
* In the last ten years the interest on the debt has cost you, the tax payer, seven trillion dollars. Republicans and now Democrats are bankrupting the nation at a rate of 1.5 billion dollars /month in interest. In five years the interest alone on the debt is more than we can raise. Obama has said the the debt is unsustainable. Guess what folks? We can not afford a government health care system!
*Three years ago the State of MA mandated health care in an effort to insure all. Today, the program is in economic turmoil, BC/BS is reducing their rates paid to some doctors by 60% and there are as many uninsured as before.
* Surprise surprise! A few reforms costing nothing, just might help.
a) Eliminate state mandates to allow interstate purchase of insurance thus increasing competition: No more state monopolies.
b) Mandate (although they already agreed in March '09) insurance companies to insure everyone even with a pre-existing medical condition.
c) Tort Reform to reduce the "defensive" practice of medicine, which drives up cost dramatically.
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» Please repair your incorrect statements.
Posted by: reelectnoone
» Seriously, do these pros really think we can't tell they are pros?
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Explain your math please
Posted by: kettleblack
» Please site sources for everything you have stated...
Posted by: aussidawg
» 86% of Canadians satisfied with their health care - sources here:
Posted by: SayBlade
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Posted by: mmckinl on Aug 29, 2009 1:43 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: reelectnoone on Aug 29, 2009 1:53 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: richholland on Aug 30, 2009 2:11 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
-dental servuce,
to have heart operations (done according american standards)
Albeit I believe 77% of the USA is happy with the present situation.
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» 60 Minutes did a story a few years ago
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: leafsong1 on Aug 30, 2009 5:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Partners in Crime
Posted by: kettleblack
» RE: Partners in Crime
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Deliberately irrelevant
Posted by: ChicagoWay
» RE: Deliberately irrelevant
Posted by: MT512
» RE: Deliberately irrelevant
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Deliberately irrelevant
Posted by: ChicagoWay
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Posted by: CarlaWaters on Aug 30, 2009 6:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Gullibility is not limited to the Right
Posted by: kettleblack
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Posted by: ChicagoWay on Aug 30, 2009 9:06 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Democrats, in general, are bought and paid for. They actually received MORE campaign dollars in the 2008 election from the health and insurance lobbies than the evil Repubs did. And of course big Pharm already cut their backroom deal with the Obama crew - which is exactly why the public option will NEVER happen. It's the same reason that tort reform is not on the table regarding healthcare. The trial lawyers are the number 1 givers to the Democrat party. Howard Dean, in a very rare fit of honesty, publically admitted that is why tort reform is not being considered.
When the public option fails the left will become totally disillusioned (once again).
If you don't believe me check it out for yourself at the link below.
ALWAYS follow the money:
http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/mems.php
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Posted by: cori on Aug 30, 2009 9:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Lex Thomas on Aug 30, 2009 11:22 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I strongly defend the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Therefore,
Posted by: MT512
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Posted by: Gaubladt on Aug 30, 2009 1:01 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Judging from the croud here in the Arlington Whole Foods parking, the Tea People are mostly old folks who would really benefit from reducing the Medicare limit from 65 down to age 50.
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» Nope
Posted by: frantaylor
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Posted by: Rusty Shackleford on Aug 30, 2009 2:13 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2. Right wing propaganda is like the pot calling the kettle black: Every single accusation they make regarding "socialized medicine" is actually a flaw with their own system: Healthcare here is rationed, denied, etc. Wait times are very long here. The system here is inefficient and costs lives.
3. Blue Collar Conservatives have no idea that it is they who would greatly benefit from a universal healthcare system, so yes, they are indeed quite stupid. There's a scientific term for them: hicks.
4. It is the American way of life to say "Me First, Screw You." With this mindset, people who already have healthcare (and no emergencies in their lives that their coverage won't cover) are fully content to tell others to piss off, because they themselves now have coverage. There is absolutely zero altruism and compassion in this country.
5. The media, the corporations, and the dimwitted hicks (blue collar conservatives) insist that we have the best system in the world. The concept of American Exceptionalism needs to be abandoned.
6. The only problem is... America will probably never have a system of universal healthcare. The closest we'll get to it is what's on the table right now: required healthcare, much like required car insurance. So long as the military gets everything it asks for, and we have literally hundreds of bases around the world ready to quash any uprising, we'll never have a public option, let alone a well funded public option.
7. With no healthcare, no decent educational system, crappy neighborhoods, corporate-run government, and a military that, even if cut in half, would still be the most powerful in the world, is the real reason Americans historically don't like paying taxes because they realize, deep down, that it doesn't pay for anything worthwhile?
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» also
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford
» We Already Pay Double the Health Care Tax
Posted by: FoonTheElder
» Here's #8: Wealth Mythology
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Here's #8: Wealth Mythology
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford
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Posted by: Gaubladt on Aug 31, 2009 4:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a sense, that is what some of them are already doing.
My sister worked for a company that processed health insurance claims. That company was taken over by one of Ross Perot's companies. One of their jobs was to sign claimants into Medicare if at all possible. Then, most, if not all, of the money given to the insurance company for the duration of the policy would be free and clear for the shareholders and of course CEO perks.
So, just by being born early enough to reach the age of Medicare acceptance, Insurance companies could dump their wards on Medicare and deny them money promised for their procedures.
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» Other Pre-Existing Conditions
Posted by: FoonTheElder
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Posted by: Beck on Aug 31, 2009 9:11 AM
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Update! Gary Peters Town Hall Meeting Tuesday
Teabaggers Plan to Pack Town Hall on Health Care
Congressman Gary Peters will host a health care townhall meeting Tuesday, September 1 from 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. at West Bloomfield High School located at 4925 Orchard Lake Road in West Bloomfield, in the school's auditorium.
Several 9th district party members have forwarded emails from various groups of "tea baggers" urging their members to arrive at 5pm and pack the town hall meeting so that supporters of Gary Peters and health care reform cannot get in ("thank you" everyone who forwarded those emails). The tea baggers plan to turn this town hall into another hysterical screaming match.
Please arrive at 4:00 pm if you are able. If you can't arrive that early still come as soon as you are able. Tuesday is the day that the 9th District shows where it stands on health care reform.
Signs will not be allowed inside the building, but if you arrive late and cannot get in please bring a sign and join the pro-health-care-reform group in the parking lot. Don't sit at home and let the "tea baggers" claim another victory. Your presence is needed, and bring family members and friends:
* Tuesday, September 1st
* 4:00 pm - 8:00 pm (meeting lasts from 6pm - 8pm)
* West Bloomfield High School
* 4925 Orchard Lake Road, West Bloomfield, MI 48323
* map
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Posted by: FoonTheElder on Aug 31, 2009 9:59 AM
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http://psychcentral.com/news/2007/
09/10/brains-of-liberals-conservatives
-may-work-differently/1691.html
From the abstract of the original 2003 study cited in the link:
"A meta-analysis (88 samples, 12 countries, 22,818 cases) confirms that several psychological variables predict political conservatism: (The plus more likely for Conservatives)
death anxiety (weighted mean r +.50);
system instability (+.47);
dogmatism–intolerance of ambiguity (+.34);
openness to experience (–.32);
uncertainty tolerance (–.27);
needs for order, structure, and closure (+.26);
integrative complexity (–.20);
fear of threat and loss (+.18);
and self-esteem (–.09)."
Jost et al. -- Political Conservatism as Motivated Social Cognition can be found here: http://terpconnect.umd.edu/~hannahk/bulletin.pdf
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Posted by: acmwallace on Sep 2, 2009 1:51 PM
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And for all of this, the amount of money that my employer and I spend on my insurance has gone up every year since I've been employed. This last year, they raised the deductible AND the co-pay. And next year, it's likely that we will have to pay more once again, or change insurance companies, or lose employer-paid insurance altogether, because of the rising costs.
And I spent a few years under-employed, when what I could do was spend $300+ per month on insurance that I called "in case I get hit by a bus" insurance - cause it didn't help me any for getting any kind of care otherwise, with a $5000/year deductible - grossing 28K a year, I would be $8600 dollars poorer before the insurance company started picking up the tab for anything. And that's assuming that they would allow every expense I had towards my deductible. Which they didn't. So I didn't see a doctor for almost 5 years.
And, just so you know, I am not old enough to qualify for Medicare. I was not poor enough to qualify for Medicaid. I am not a young adult (pushing 50). And I am not an illegal alien.
So, as per usual with anti-healthcare-reformers, your "statistics" are full of what comes out of the back-end of a horse. Just because 80% of "our people" have insurance through work (and I challenge your numbers there), it doesn't mean that it "works well". Being glad to have something instead of nothing does not mean being excited to have the crumbs.
Idiots. I swore I wouldn't say anything like that in this comment, but the more I see these anti-healthcare reform comments, the angrier I get.
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Posted by: teon6 on Sep 19, 2009 2:18 PM
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Talking facts, telling true stories, none of that will work with them. Instead we need to spend our time convincing the Democrats to do their job. That's the птицы фото птиц transmit infrared signals transmit infrared signals through walls alcatel ot-v670a user manual alcatel ot-v670a user guide seropol5 roadblock we should be concerned about. And when they don't, we need to get out of the house and back candidates with a backbone instead of a corporate-funded campaign account.
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Posted by: johnwinthrop on Aug 29, 2009 2:49 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama has lied his way into creating alleged problems that either don't exist or are far smaller than he claims. Obama's legacy is the issue not the quality of US health care which is excellent.
So why do those Canadians come to the US to get care they can't get in Canada? thelathuaahis
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» RE: Obviously a more caring planet than you!
Posted by: Jaipurr
» RE: Obviously a more caring planet than you!
Posted by: nonaste
» RE: what planet are you on?
Posted by: mercianomad
» RE: what planet are you on?
Posted by: BeckyD
» RE: what planet are you on?
Posted by: MindyB
» RE: what planet are you on?
Posted by: MindyB
» RE: what planet are you on?Not yours thanks goodness!
Posted by: MindyB
» Well Over 80% of Our People
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» are you insane???
Posted by: ellie
» RE: are you insane???
Posted by: gathaiga
» so why do those Americans go to India to get care?
Posted by: hurricane hugo
» what planet are YOU on?
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Are your retarded or a professional liar
Posted by: Bob Horn
» 80 percent? Sounds like parrot talk to me.
Posted by: xvictor
» Excuse me but even more social conservatives are crying for single payer.
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» RE: what planet are you on?
Posted by: Mr. G
» RE: what planet are you on?
Posted by: Morell
» Many of the top doctors in the world are located there
Posted by: suprmark
» RE: what planet are you on?
Posted by: MT512
» Get a cure for your fucking Kool-Aid. Can you read? think? synthesize information? Dolt!
Posted by: thekidde
» RE: what planet are you on?
Posted by: johnmont
» RE: what planet are you on?
Posted by: acmwallace
Comments are closed-
Posted by: raine1 on Aug 29, 2009 4:11 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"I am in full support of the health care plan and reform. In fact I think it does not go far enough and feel that a single payer plan would reduce costs immeasurably. I am blessed to have insurance through the State of Florida and Capital Health Plan (look it up), one of the top-rated insurance firms in the nation. It has demonstrated that an insurance company can provide superb coverage, wellness care, and still be profitable. Several of the big-name insurance companies are complaining that they can’t get a foothold here in Tallahassee because of CHP.
My husband was diagnosed with colon cancer two years ago and they saw us through 4 surgeries (2 minor for port entry and removal for chemo) and chemo for 6 months. In conference with the oncologist, he asked, “Who is your healthcare with?” When we responded with CHP, he smiled and told us that all options were available to us and took us through the gamut of options. We were so fortunate that my husband had left his job and United Healthcare. I picked up his insurance with CHP and we were out of pocket less than five thousand dollars. With United Healthcare we would have lost our home because the costs would have been in the mid five figures and may not have covered the treatment he received. My husband chose the most aggressive chemotherapy and so far he is clear. During chemo, we met a man, with insurance, that couldn’t continue with the chemo treatments because it was bankrupting his family. He knew that discontinuing the treatment would almost certainly cost him his life but he wouldn’t leave his wife and kids homeless. We cried with him."
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» RE: regarding health care reform
Posted by: MindyB
» RE: regarding health care reform
Posted by: willymack
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Posted by: SufiLizard on Aug 29, 2009 5:32 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Short answer? Most of them don't. That's another myth propagated by the right-wing liars.
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» RE: To the guy from Fantasy Land above
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» Some do, but the other side...
Posted by: james108
» No real solutions
Posted by: freshlemon
» Here in Michigan, the traffic, especially busloads of seniors buying drugs, heads the other way
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: drricklippin on Aug 29, 2009 6:23 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You omitted a huge predominant factor which is fear and fear of change at least among the masses.That is one on the central features of the conservative psyche.(The CEOS of the disease industries are driven by pure greed but know how to play the fear card)
When fear is mongered and kicks in the rational brain shuts down.
Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa
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Posted by: cori on Aug 29, 2009 6:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our health care system is broken, everyone knows it and tens of millions of lives are at stake. We are the ONlY developed nation in the world who does not have free health care for their people. This is moral imperitve. What is a government for and why do we pay taxes if it is not for us to be protected? We must fight for this. They have been trying to deprive the American people of national health care for decades and we, as a broken people, who can't even get out there and march will bend over once again and allow big pharma and health insurance companies to make TRILLIONS off sick and dying Americans! You want lousy health care or no health care? Do you want to pay $10,000 per yr for catasrophic that might not cover you anyway. These industries don't care if you die in the gutter- we pay taxes but none of it goes to us!
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» RE: We are in the midst of a humanitarian crisis
Posted by: ankhet
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Posted by: sherry on Aug 29, 2009 6:46 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Attending one town hall meeting reveals what all the fuss is about. These yellers and ranters lost an election, worse yet they lost it to a black man, their worst fear come true. They didn't have any power to begin with, but they lost the delusion of power. They are like wounded, cornered animals, snarling and slashing.
Talking facts, telling true stories, none of that will work with them. Instead we need to spend our time convincing the Democrats to do their job. That's the roadblock we should be concerned about. And when they don't, we need to get out of the house and back candidates with a backbone instead of a corporate-funded campaign account.
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» RE: defeat
Posted by: aussidawg
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Posted by: parrotuya on Aug 29, 2009 6:54 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: wtfo on Aug 29, 2009 9:16 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You can bet that almost any "changes" will be minor and implementation-delayed so that the current Health-Insurers will have time to adapt to the changes - which I am pretty sure will be done similar to how the credit card companies are currently "adapting" to the upcoming new laws to limit their previous gouging of their customers. You can also bet your bottom dollar that you will continue to pay more for less - until you can get some relief at age 65 (if you make it to that age).
Finally, you can also be assured that when those who were so opposed to rational changes finally experience the fruits of their "win" they will STILL look to the "markets" to square things away...
The rest of the civilized world will probably also continue to shake their heads at our foolishness and immorality (all in the name of capitalism and in fear of "government"). Oh, and they will probably get prepared to shut down their borders in anticipation of a mad rush of those in the USA who finally have given up and are looking for a better place to live.
Anybody who has an ounce of intelligence MUST have realized by now that other countries have a better system but we resolutely refuse to consider adopting some of their best practices. Our main problem here is that we only look at healthcare as a cost to society and not as a necessary right that firstly, HAS to be provided to all citizens, and THEN figure out how to provide these services most efficiently and with the lowest per capita costs.
Don't believe me? Check out T.R. Reid's interview on PBS's 28 August broadcast of "The Newshour" - available on the PBS Newshour's web site video.pbs.org.
It is simply an update of his earlier Frontline Documentary "Sick Around the World" and an announcement of his new book "The Healing of America: A Global Quest for Better, Cheaper, and Fairer Health Care".
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Posted by: zrants on Aug 29, 2009 9:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
linked text
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Posted by: james108 on Aug 29, 2009 10:30 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They took single payer off the table. Obama made deals with big pharma to keep drug prices up, for some vague 1% reduction of the 100% increase they plan, if you want to get into it. They didn't agree to cut a dollar out of what's being spent, and in fact, Obama was called upon to block potential cost saving legislation, which is supposed to be Congress's job.
Is Alternet really this blind? The democrats do not represent reform, but more tricks. Why do Alternet's "progressive" voices ignore the half trillion cut in medicare being proposed, and paint seniors as dumb for doing the math? How can they stand for the thousands fighting for single payer being ignored? How can they keep asking us to blindly trust someone who's conned us so far at every turn. Compromise is OK, but you have to be honest of what you're actually fighting for, or reform is a word you can use on change, be it for good or bad. This is no compromise to single payer since they're not allowed to compare, scorecard or testify on it. It's like the debates, where you only allow specific, elite blessed choices, and call it hope and change.
Without any discussion of our options, there is no real reform. As long as the democrats try to strangle out any progressive options for their own corporate monopoly, it doesn't count as reform. So why are the democrats against reform, and want to paint an elephant blue and call it reform, and why are you helping them?
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Aug 29, 2009 11:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: ReallyBearish on Aug 29, 2009 12:36 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Basic Instincts on Aug 29, 2009 12:44 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
* 50% or less of people in countries touting nationalized health care are satisfied with their current government program.
* Most of the countries WITH government health care are looking for ways OUT. The UK, where the approval rate of their care is low, employ 1.4 million health care administrators and this voting block would have to vote themselves out of a job to achieve what we already have.
* The US Government at present pays(but not really) for 51% of all the health care delivered.
* For the last ten consecutive years the US Government has voted to reduce the fee for service of health care provided, knowing the greedy insurance companies/hospitals(many not- for- profit but still greedy) would be forced to raise your rates to makeup for the shortfall. You or your employer get hit for Government health care in your paycheck, and then again in expensive increases to make up for the government's hidden "tax" in your insurance premium. The same government screaming for reform because insurance is too expensive is driving up the cost.
* The government/ Medicare is shockingly complacent when it comes to checking if services billed for are even EVER delivered.
Loss to the taxpayer in fraudulent claims is reported in the billions of dollars and over the last ten years? Trillions.
* In the last ten years the interest on the debt has cost you, the tax payer, seven trillion dollars. Republicans and now Democrats are bankrupting the nation at a rate of 1.5 billion dollars /month in interest. In five years the interest alone on the debt is more than we can raise. Obama has said the the debt is unsustainable. Guess what folks? We can not afford a government health care system!
*Three years ago the State of MA mandated health care in an effort to insure all. Today, the program is in economic turmoil, BC/BS is reducing their rates paid to some doctors by 60% and there are as many uninsured as before.
* Surprise surprise! A few reforms costing nothing, just might help.
a) Eliminate state mandates to allow interstate purchase of insurance thus increasing competition: No more state monopolies.
b) Mandate (although they already agreed in March '09) insurance companies to insure everyone even with a pre-existing medical condition.
c) Tort Reform to reduce the "defensive" practice of medicine, which drives up cost dramatically.
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» Please repair your incorrect statements.
Posted by: reelectnoone
» Seriously, do these pros really think we can't tell they are pros?
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Explain your math please
Posted by: kettleblack
» Please site sources for everything you have stated...
Posted by: aussidawg
» 86% of Canadians satisfied with their health care - sources here:
Posted by: SayBlade
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Posted by: mmckinl on Aug 29, 2009 1:43 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: reelectnoone on Aug 29, 2009 1:53 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: richholland on Aug 30, 2009 2:11 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
-dental servuce,
to have heart operations (done according american standards)
Albeit I believe 77% of the USA is happy with the present situation.
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» 60 Minutes did a story a few years ago
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: leafsong1 on Aug 30, 2009 5:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Partners in Crime
Posted by: kettleblack
» RE: Partners in Crime
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Deliberately irrelevant
Posted by: ChicagoWay
» RE: Deliberately irrelevant
Posted by: MT512
» RE: Deliberately irrelevant
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Deliberately irrelevant
Posted by: ChicagoWay
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Posted by: CarlaWaters on Aug 30, 2009 6:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Gullibility is not limited to the Right
Posted by: kettleblack
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Posted by: ChicagoWay on Aug 30, 2009 9:06 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Democrats, in general, are bought and paid for. They actually received MORE campaign dollars in the 2008 election from the health and insurance lobbies than the evil Repubs did. And of course big Pharm already cut their backroom deal with the Obama crew - which is exactly why the public option will NEVER happen. It's the same reason that tort reform is not on the table regarding healthcare. The trial lawyers are the number 1 givers to the Democrat party. Howard Dean, in a very rare fit of honesty, publically admitted that is why tort reform is not being considered.
When the public option fails the left will become totally disillusioned (once again).
If you don't believe me check it out for yourself at the link below.
ALWAYS follow the money:
http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/mems.php
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Posted by: cori on Aug 30, 2009 9:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Lex Thomas on Aug 30, 2009 11:22 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I strongly defend the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Therefore,
Posted by: MT512
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Posted by: Gaubladt on Aug 30, 2009 1:01 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Judging from the croud here in the Arlington Whole Foods parking, the Tea People are mostly old folks who would really benefit from reducing the Medicare limit from 65 down to age 50.
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» Nope
Posted by: frantaylor
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Posted by: Rusty Shackleford on Aug 30, 2009 2:13 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2. Right wing propaganda is like the pot calling the kettle black: Every single accusation they make regarding "socialized medicine" is actually a flaw with their own system: Healthcare here is rationed, denied, etc. Wait times are very long here. The system here is inefficient and costs lives.
3. Blue Collar Conservatives have no idea that it is they who would greatly benefit from a universal healthcare system, so yes, they are indeed quite stupid. There's a scientific term for them: hicks.
4. It is the American way of life to say "Me First, Screw You." With this mindset, people who already have healthcare (and no emergencies in their lives that their coverage won't cover) are fully content to tell others to piss off, because they themselves now have coverage. There is absolutely zero altruism and compassion in this country.
5. The media, the corporations, and the dimwitted hicks (blue collar conservatives) insist that we have the best system in the world. The concept of American Exceptionalism needs to be abandoned.
6. The only problem is... America will probably never have a system of universal healthcare. The closest we'll get to it is what's on the table right now: required healthcare, much like required car insurance. So long as the military gets everything it asks for, and we have literally hundreds of bases around the world ready to quash any uprising, we'll never have a public option, let alone a well funded public option.
7. With no healthcare, no decent educational system, crappy neighborhoods, corporate-run government, and a military that, even if cut in half, would still be the most powerful in the world, is the real reason Americans historically don't like paying taxes because they realize, deep down, that it doesn't pay for anything worthwhile?
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» also
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford
» We Already Pay Double the Health Care Tax
Posted by: FoonTheElder
» Here's #8: Wealth Mythology
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Here's #8: Wealth Mythology
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford
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Posted by: Gaubladt on Aug 31, 2009 4:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a sense, that is what some of them are already doing.
My sister worked for a company that processed health insurance claims. That company was taken over by one of Ross Perot's companies. One of their jobs was to sign claimants into Medicare if at all possible. Then, most, if not all, of the money given to the insurance company for the duration of the policy would be free and clear for the shareholders and of course CEO perks.
So, just by being born early enough to reach the age of Medicare acceptance, Insurance companies could dump their wards on Medicare and deny them money promised for their procedures.
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» Other Pre-Existing Conditions
Posted by: FoonTheElder
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Posted by: Beck on Aug 31, 2009 9:11 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Update! Gary Peters Town Hall Meeting Tuesday
Teabaggers Plan to Pack Town Hall on Health Care
Congressman Gary Peters will host a health care townhall meeting Tuesday, September 1 from 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. at West Bloomfield High School located at 4925 Orchard Lake Road in West Bloomfield, in the school's auditorium.
Several 9th district party members have forwarded emails from various groups of "tea baggers" urging their members to arrive at 5pm and pack the town hall meeting so that supporters of Gary Peters and health care reform cannot get in ("thank you" everyone who forwarded those emails). The tea baggers plan to turn this town hall into another hysterical screaming match.
Please arrive at 4:00 pm if you are able. If you can't arrive that early still come as soon as you are able. Tuesday is the day that the 9th District shows where it stands on health care reform.
Signs will not be allowed inside the building, but if you arrive late and cannot get in please bring a sign and join the pro-health-care-reform group in the parking lot. Don't sit at home and let the "tea baggers" claim another victory. Your presence is needed, and bring family members and friends:
* Tuesday, September 1st
* 4:00 pm - 8:00 pm (meeting lasts from 6pm - 8pm)
* West Bloomfield High School
* 4925 Orchard Lake Road, West Bloomfield, MI 48323
* map
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Posted by: FoonTheElder on Aug 31, 2009 9:59 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://psychcentral.com/news/2007/
09/10/brains-of-liberals-conservatives
-may-work-differently/1691.html
From the abstract of the original 2003 study cited in the link:
"A meta-analysis (88 samples, 12 countries, 22,818 cases) confirms that several psychological variables predict political conservatism: (The plus more likely for Conservatives)
death anxiety (weighted mean r +.50);
system instability (+.47);
dogmatism–intolerance of ambiguity (+.34);
openness to experience (–.32);
uncertainty tolerance (–.27);
needs for order, structure, and closure (+.26);
integrative complexity (–.20);
fear of threat and loss (+.18);
and self-esteem (–.09)."
Jost et al. -- Political Conservatism as Motivated Social Cognition can be found here: http://terpconnect.umd.edu/~hannahk/bulletin.pdf
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Posted by: acmwallace on Sep 2, 2009 1:51 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And for all of this, the amount of money that my employer and I spend on my insurance has gone up every year since I've been employed. This last year, they raised the deductible AND the co-pay. And next year, it's likely that we will have to pay more once again, or change insurance companies, or lose employer-paid insurance altogether, because of the rising costs.
And I spent a few years under-employed, when what I could do was spend $300+ per month on insurance that I called "in case I get hit by a bus" insurance - cause it didn't help me any for getting any kind of care otherwise, with a $5000/year deductible - grossing 28K a year, I would be $8600 dollars poorer before the insurance company started picking up the tab for anything. And that's assuming that they would allow every expense I had towards my deductible. Which they didn't. So I didn't see a doctor for almost 5 years.
And, just so you know, I am not old enough to qualify for Medicare. I was not poor enough to qualify for Medicaid. I am not a young adult (pushing 50). And I am not an illegal alien.
So, as per usual with anti-healthcare-reformers, your "statistics" are full of what comes out of the back-end of a horse. Just because 80% of "our people" have insurance through work (and I challenge your numbers there), it doesn't mean that it "works well". Being glad to have something instead of nothing does not mean being excited to have the crumbs.
Idiots. I swore I wouldn't say anything like that in this comment, but the more I see these anti-healthcare reform comments, the angrier I get.
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Posted by: teon6 on Sep 19, 2009 2:18 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Talking facts, telling true stories, none of that will work with them. Instead we need to spend our time convincing the Democrats to do their job. That's the птицы фото птиц transmit infrared signals transmit infrared signals through walls alcatel ot-v670a user manual alcatel ot-v670a user guide seropol5 roadblock we should be concerned about. And when they don't, we need to get out of the house and back candidates with a backbone instead of a corporate-funded campaign account.
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When Will Obama Stop Trying to Work with Republicans?
Sarah Palin Aims to Bust Up the Republican Party -- And the Tea Party Movement
White Racial Resentment Bubbles Under the Surface of the Tea Party Movement




