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AlterNet / By Frank Schaeffer
comments_imageCOMMENTS: 195

The Threat Is Real: Why Right-Wing Rage at Townhall Meetings Could Quickly Turn Deadly

The insurance industry has agitated the far right to prevent health reform, but they don't know whom they're messing with.
August 12, 2009  |  
 
 
 
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From the Internet to Sarah Palin this strange claim is being made: President Barack Obama wants to kill the elderly and the infirm with his health care plan. Palin even said her Down syndrome child would be a target.

The claim is being repeated, or rather screamed, by angry groups invading town hall meetings that congresspeople have organized to discuss health care reform. How on earth can the outright lie that health-care reform will lead to the euthanasia of the elderly be accepted by anyone, even by those on the far anti-Obama right?

I happen to have the answer to this question.

Over 30 years ago, my family helped start the myth leading to the present bizarre turn of events. From the mid-1970s to mid1980s, I was an activist on the far right, an evangelical and a Republican. I quit the movement by the late 1980s. (Disclosure: I'm now a supporter of President Obama and health care reform.)

To understand what is happening today in town hall meetings invaded by angry mobs convinced that their representatives are part of a conspiracy to force the elderly to forgo care, you have to understand what we, the founders of the pro-life movement, set in motion.

In the mid-1970s, Dr. C. Everett Koop (who became Ronald Reagan's surgeon general), my late evangelical theologian father, Dr. Francis Schaeffer, and I helped launch what became the evangelical-led wing of the pro-life movement.

Instrumental in the formation of our anti-choice movement was a book written by my father and Koop. I then translated it into a episodic documentary film series called Whatever Happened To The Human Race? Stressing the importance of "the sanctity of all human life," the book and film series claimed that abortion is murder and the legalization of abortion in Roe v. Wade would inevitably lead to legalized infanticide and euthanasia.

As a warning to our audience, we talked about what happened in Germany in the 1930s and fascist theories about the mentally ill, physically deficient, etc., led to "mercy killings." We drew comparisons with the Supreme Court ruling and said the door was now open, with "the loss of the sanctity of life, in the United States" to the same fate as awaited Germany.

Then my dad took it to the next step and wrote a book called A Christian Manifesto. He discussed the possibility of Christians using force to change the United States government if all else failed to reverse Roe. He made the comparison of America to Hitler's Germany.

We successfully (and as it turned out completely mistakenly) linked legalized abortion to a "slippery slope" that would inexorably lead to the equivalent of an American holocaust against the elderly and infirm.

The anti-abortion argument thus became two arguments: not only about abortion itself, but also what abortion would lead to. We attacked pro-choice ideas on both grounds. This then became part of the indelible fabric of the pro-life cause. Decades later, this was why the Terri Schiavo case became what it did: "proof" that we'd been right all along and that we were proceeding down "the slope."

It is in this context that the cynical cleverness of the lobbying groups, the insurance industry and the far-right wing of the Republican Party can be understood.

They have borrowed our arguments to frame their anti-health-care reform tirade. They have tapped into a ready-made conviction that has been sustained for over 30 years and has not wavered in the face of the reality that legal abortion did not lead to legal infanticide, let alone to government-mandated euthanasia. (Even in Oregon, the assisted-suicide laws relate to doctor-patient relations in end-of-life decisions of the terminally ill, not to the "mercy killing" for the convenience of the government that we predicted.)


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Frank Schaeffer is a writer and author of Crazy for God: How I Grew Up As One of the Elect, Helped Found the Religious Right and Lived To Take All (Or Almost All) of It Back.
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Another one?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: bonapartist on Aug 12, 2009 2:07 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Really, this is fifth or sixth article within a week about town hall meetings.

Where was all this written outrage when Obama continued Iraqi war, expanded Afghan war and bailed out the rich? The number of articles about those topics was nowehere as near to this blitz.

What is it? Obama screwed up everything he touched up and until this point so we have to rally the troops for his health care plan?

What a wodnerful idea, it turned the issue from debate abotu helth care reform into "you are with us or against us" shouting match.

Oppose Obama's plan - you are neo nazi pro GOP
Support Obama's plan - you are a progresssive

Can we discuss the damn PLAN please?

I have no intetnion of supporting another pile of Bambam's garbage just because GOP and right wing happen to yell againt it.

Not to mention both GOP and Dems are enjoying media coverage and are getting away with murder while people are too busy foaming at the mouth over this charade.

Iraq war is on, Afghan war is on, its extension into Pakistan is on, bailout for the rich came from taxpayer's pockets, economy continues to crumble but hey let us get all worked out about disrupted town hall meetings!

Feel free to get out your pitchforks just remember that Obama's health care plan will consist of only what he and lobbiyists care to give you.

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» RE: Another one? Posted by: jiminator
» Hey Beck!!! Posted by: Karlh
» RE: Hey Beck!!! Posted by: Malamute
» ? Posted by: Karlh
» RE: ? Posted by: Malamute
» Aren't you special Posted by: Karlh
» Prophit.... Posted by: Quannah
» you can't even spell correctly Posted by: mtbarbee
» Please Pray For Senator Kennedy Posted by: foreverhope

Comments are closed-

The Left Should Be Using The Same Tactics In Opposition To ObamaCare
[Report this comment]
Posted by: jooljetkmae on Aug 12, 2009 2:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why are so many liberals so afraid of this kind of direct action?:

http://counterpunch.org/mokhiber08102009.html

Single payer advocates attempted to do the same thing at the hearings Senator Baucus held earlier this year. Unfortunately, actions like that don't get much media attention, outside of Democracy Now! Now the right adopts those same tactics in opposition to Obama's plan, and many liberals making the ridiculous Brown Shirt comparison. Give me a break.

What in Obama's plan is there for his liberal base to defend? It's a continuation of the unacceptable status quo.

That's what is sad about what is going on. Obama has pulled a Hillary on health care and effectively killed any chance at a real reform by helping to kill the single payer option.

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A cornered rat
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Perry Logan on Aug 12, 2009 2:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Schaeffer knows whereof he speaks, and I would not deny the possibility of violence.

But...give me a break! If you haven't noticed wingers are full of sh*t, you haven't been paying attention.

The Right in America are a creepy minority of white males who are obsessed with gays and, for some reason, want to force women to have babies. Thanks to a lot of money and scullduggery, they have largely held the reins of power for the last 30 years.

The results were so horrific that the Republic lies bleeding. They left just enough of our democracy intact for us to throw them out. :)

What we're seeing is impotent rage from a defeated minority. You can almost taste the fear in the townhall protesters.

We should definitely keep an eye on these unstable white guys. But we should fear them only in the way one should fear a cornered rat.


Bait & Switch

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» RE: Or a rabid dog Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» I can tell you what they will do Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: A cornered rat Posted by: dmaciewski
» RE: A cornered rat Posted by: aichbe

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The Link That Isn't
[Report this comment]
Posted by: johnwinthrop on Aug 12, 2009 3:06 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Schaeffer admits the insurance industry isn't part of the nutty, Obamacarer is Murder mob:


"I'm not sure if the insurance industry leaders using lobbyists to stir the pot know what they've just hooked into. Do they know that the comparisons of Obama to Hitler, and the call to break up a wholly imaginary "conspiracy" against the elderly may lead the fringe of the fringe to the next step? Is this fear of mine far-fetched? I don't think so. To most Americans the killing of Dr. Tiller was murder. To many in the pro-life movement it was a courageous act by a patriot."

But later he claims there is a "link" between the insurance industry and the anti-abortion extremists. He does not prove any link.

This is as much a smear as the nutcakes who claim end of life counseling under Medicare is euthanasia.

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» RE: The Link That Isn't Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: The Link That Isn't Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: The Link That Is Posted by: Sister_Lauren

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popham
[Report this comment]
Posted by: popham on Aug 12, 2009 5:21 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr.Schaeffer may be correct.
America has never been closer to a 21st century
American Revolution. What form or what intensity that revolution takes, remains to be
seen.
The Adm. and Congress tried to jam through
health care legislation, without even reading
any of the 1017 pages! The people found out what they were up to. Along with the spin and
propaganda that we've been fed re: health care,
cap and trade, and taxes, the American citizenry has uncovered the true and perilous
path on which the democratic left is taking this country. The American people see through
this charade and they don't like it one bit.
Even staunch democrats are suffering from voter remorse.
All of this, has indeed given every right wing
politician, pundit, organization and internet
website a valid reason to make their voices heard. These so-called fringe elements may
appear to be radical; however, there may be some justification to their movement.
We suggest that everyone read the first four
paragraphs of the Declaration of Independence.
When, in the course of human events, a government ceases to properly serve its people,
then the people have the right and obligation
to protect and preserve the sovereignty,
integrity and safety of their country.
We can and must at this critical time in history join forces as one family of 300 million Americans and show the world, that we are indeed the greatest nation on earth.

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So Ironic
[Report this comment]
Posted by: snowhound on Aug 12, 2009 5:28 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush was also compared to Hitler and Alternet didn't find anything wrong with it. Maybe this term is used because every President that is elected introduces legislation that eliminates our civil liberties. With Bush it was the Patriot Act and the Military Commisions Act. Obama's Health Care Plan will take away our Health Freedom.

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» RE: So Ironic Posted by: MT512
» RE: So Ironic Posted by: snowhound
» RE: So Ironic Posted by: MT512
» RE: So Ironic Posted by: snowhound
» RE: So Ironic Posted by: LANCE
» RE: So Ironic Posted by: Morell

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Whilst I Think Lyndon LaRouche is a Nut - He's Not Exactly Right Wing
[Report this comment]
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Aug 12, 2009 6:10 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On his website, there is "research" going back months with regards to Medical advisors to Obama, and their published papers with respect to the rationing of health care.

In the real world health care does indeed need to be rationed. In America it is currently done by wealth. This is grossly unfair on the poor.

The problem though, is that some of these papers - that have been published in the Lancet, actually mention specifics with regards to the worth of different groups of people. The implication is that if you fall into the wrong group, you will be less likely to receive expensive life saving treatment. This can/has and will be interpreted as being similar to practices in Nazi Germany.

Such decisions should not become public policy. Whilst in the real world, life and death decisions always have to be taken, every case should be examined on its own merits individually.

Life support machines can keep apparently brain dead people alive for considerable periods, and in some rare cases - people do make full recoveries. There is however a limit on the number of such machines.

People shouldn't be kept alive indefinitely on the basis of their wealth, leaving the poor with easily treatable conditions to die without treatment.

But once you start writing policy on who is / is not to be kept alive - you are walking in a minefield of potential protest, by people who simply do not understand the issues.

Tony

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Were You There?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Arlene on Aug 12, 2009 6:10 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was at the repro rights rallies and at abortion provider facilities and saw it up close and personal. The religious right helped to make the environment safe for bullies to harrass and intimidate. That included nonresponse by the police.

My local chapter of the National Organization for Women got a permit for a rally in the park in downtown Park Ridge, IL. The Pro-Life Action League (later a co-defendant in a RICO suit) showed up with a bullhorn, inserted themselves in our event and did just what the screamers are doing now. When the police refused to respond to our calls for help, we marched over to the next block and held our rally on the steps of the police station. This embarrassed the police chief who was forced to finally act.

This was one of the more egregious and outlandish of many similar incidents that caused grief over the years. I grew up an evangelical. The leadership, along with the catholic hierarchy, saw a marketing opportunity in the abortion issue and used it cynically to further their own influence in the political process in a malign way.

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» RE: Were You There? Posted by: Sister_Lauren

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The 9/11 conspiracy is behind Obama's health care plan,
[Report this comment]
Posted by: peterjkraus on Aug 12, 2009 6:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the Bilderbergers wrote it and Obama's fake birth certificate was actually printed by aliens on Alpha Centauri.

The Alpha Centaurians have landed! Again! And now they're among us, posting conspiracy crap on Alter Net and injecting a bit of levity into my otherwise dull day. Dull, because we progressives are known to be total downers who had their last good laugh when Bush choked on that pretzel.

So, thanks, aliens, for all the wingy-nutty posts. Keep up the good work!

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» we have a leak! we have a leak! Posted by: hurricane hugo

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2 comments from a Nebraska farmer
[Report this comment]
Posted by: zooeyhall on Aug 12, 2009 6:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have been watching with amazement the fracas over health care, and I am constantly coming back to two observations:

1) If you look at the videos, almost all these jerks raising such a ruckus are middle-aged white males. And things seem a little too "staged". I strongly suspect they are shills or fakes sent to the meetings by the local right-wing clubs.

2) Obama is waaaayy too naive about dealing with the right wing in this country. He seems to feel that he "needs to compromise" and that these people can be reasonable if just listened to, etc. etc. Trouble is: the rightists in the American political process don't believe in "compromise"--to them you don't "compromise" with the devil. And the devil being gays, liberals, Obama, free choice types, and those who don't goose step when the flag is raised. At most, compromise to them is something like a temporary cease fire in a war. To give you time to pull back and plan your next attack on the enemy.

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» Correction on my post. Posted by: maxpayne
» Fuck, here's another ONE! Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: Fuck, here's another ONE! Posted by: tony_opmoc
» Perhaps Posted by: Hiroak
» I keep hearing how 'brilliant' he is... Posted by: photon's feather
» There, you see? Posted by: photon's feather
» Farmers are indeed wise Posted by: Hiroak
» RE: Farmers are indeed wise Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» never had a hog in my life Posted by: zooeyhall

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Its A Personal Choice.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: melpol on Aug 12, 2009 6:30 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is no right or wrong etched in stone. Getting a better deal is the issue. If you are a person that is employed by an insurance company that provides health care, you have a perfect right to be angry. It is wrong for the government to take away your bosses business. But if you are a youngster that wants a lifetime of inexpensive health care, choose the Medicare program offered by Uncle Sam.

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» A ray of hope: Posted by: leafsong1

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didn't we have this article a few days ago???
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ellie on Aug 12, 2009 6:41 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
!

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The cure.....
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Aug 12, 2009 6:46 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can we just lock up all of these crazies, for their own protection and ours, until after those more honest and intelligent have discussions and get this thing moving thru Congress to the Presidents desk!

I don't mind opposition based on "real" honest reasoning, the faux reasoning from the rabid, dishonest, distorted whores & liars on the right (along with the blind allegiance of idiots too lazy to even attempt to understand the issues) is that they aren't looking out for "WE THE PEOPLE" - they ARE SHILLING FOR THE CORPORATE OLIGARCHY!!! ENOUGH OF THEIR LIES, NO MORE SELL-OUTS, NO MORE PROSTITUTION - AND IF YOU MUST CAN YOU AT LEAST WEAR SOME PUMPS AND LIPSTICK!!!

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» RE: The cure..... Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: The cure..... Posted by: Malamute
» RE: The cure..... Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: The cure..... Posted by: Malamute

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The status quo suits the ideologically pure left too
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ETSpoon on Aug 12, 2009 6:48 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Odd, isn't it, that at one time not all the long ago when it came to universal health care coverage the ideologically pure left "said" they wanted all Americans to have what Congress has, access to the Federal Employees Health Care Benefits Program (FEHBP.)

When upon closer examination it was disclosed that the FEHBP is really only a pool of private and union-owned health care insurance companies with monthly premiums, co-payments and deductibles held in-check by 70% employer (i.e. the federal government) subsidies. That being the case opening the FEHBP to all Americans was no longer as an attractive option to the ideologically pure left anymore. So it was time to more on to something else.

That something else was a Canadian-style single payer health care system. So fixated on the Canadian plan, the leading lights of the ideologically pure left close off dialog at the mere mention of the French, German, Netherlands or Japanese mixed public/private health care delivery systems. An odd reaction for people who wear t-shirts printed with the legend, "A mind is like a parachute. It only works when it's open."

One of the most curious things I have read on the Internet posted by the ideologically pure left has been a denunciation of Congressman Dennis Kucinich, the only man in America, to my knowledge, who has a clear, concise, comprehensive single payer health care plan in hand. The argument, if it called that, was, Representative Kucinich was somehow not progressive or ideologically pure enough because he will not denounce the Democratic Party. For the savvy Kucinich taking that step would be political suicide, as he would lose what influence he now has in the US House and face certain electoral defeat in "red" leaning Ohio as a third-party or independent candidate.

Yes an odd reaction, indeed, for people who are already old enough to be on Medicare, or who have generous employer-provided health care benefits from the university or college or Christian denomination or defense contractor at which they work. And for those whiling away their time on college campuses before entering the world of coordinator class employment.

The intransigence of the ideologically pure left in support of a Canadian-style single payer health care system feds right into the right wing feedback loop as "socialized-big government-death panel" health care. I am sure in their endless trawling of the Internet universe a Matt Drudge or the operatives of a Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh know the positions of some of the leading ideologically pure left on health care.

It seems to me that the ideologically pure left is nostalgic of the "good old days" of the Clinton administration post-1994 and Newt Gingrich's "Contract On America" Republican US House majority.

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» I've been promoted! Posted by: ETSpoon
» On the contrary... Posted by: leafsong1

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Always Question Authority
[Report this comment]
Posted by: dover23 on Aug 12, 2009 6:59 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
you know you're on the right track when

- your opinions are ridiculed by an establishment media outlet

- you're mistaken for a lefty when neocons are running the circus

- you're mistaken for a neocon when lefties are running the circus

- overprivileged clueless white kids are worked into a neurotic frenzy over your dissent and they feel empowered by giving your comments a 1 rating on an irrelevant website

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» RE: Always Question Authority Posted by: TheExpatriate

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Deadly?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: dover23 on Aug 12, 2009 7:11 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
townhall meetings could turn deadly?

what about Afghanistan?

http://icasualties.org/oef/

why did the lefty media take a stronger antiwar stance when their guy wasn't commander in chief?

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» RE: Deadly? Posted by: snax
» RE: Deadly? Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» TROLL n/t Posted by: foreverhope
» Tony I know you Posted by: foreverhope

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Here's What Bothers Me...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: popeurbanxxiii on Aug 12, 2009 7:54 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...about the "angry mobs".

The religious/authoritarian type personality is a follower. A large percentage don't have an original thought in their brains. They are the kind who simply regurgitate the "talking points". They look to their leaders - church, civic, educational, or business - to tell them what is right or wrong. They believe in a heirarchical command structure and everybody knowing and understanding their place in this structure.

All too many of them lack a critical intellect that would allow them to make comparisons and engage in a bit of introspection. They will take the words of their leaders as "gospel truth".

Since, in this world view, God's will is disseminated down the heirarchy, to question "your betters" is anathema - tantamount to questioning God.

When these people start to hear the same "buzz-words" interspersed into the health care debate, these people react. They make that subconscious link with the "gospel truth" they heard in the anti-abortion debate. It subconsciously becomes "God's Work". Opposing health care reform is "the right thing to do".

All of this is happening on a subliminal level. Many of them don't think that they are being manipulated because they have read it on the "internets tubes" and heard it repeated in the media "echo chamber" (To be fair, lefties can be manipulated in much the same manner).

A lot of what passes for argument is just emotional "button pushing" - make the mob angry and then tell them what they are supposed to be angry about. Most of us know that you can not reason with an enraged person. The anger blocks rational thought. The manipulators of the "angry white males" know this and use it to their advantage.

What the manipulators always forget is the concept of blowback. You can't put the genie back in the bottle once released. They have let loose some forces they no longer control. Somebody is going to get killed in all probability.

There is no discussion when all sides are shouting.

"Bipartisanship is another word for date rape." -Grover Norquist (Republican stragegist, friend and associate of "Turd Blossom" Rove)

Peace be with us all...
Pope Urban XXIII

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Those That Are...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: The Old Hippie on Aug 12, 2009 8:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
 
“Telling It Like It Is In Reality, Not As We Hope It is.”

Enjoy your reality...
 

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Conspiracy Theory
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ClassAct on Aug 12, 2009 8:04 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since the death of FDR, American politics of both the liberal and conservative types have turned upon a single conspiracy theory: the international Communist conspiracy, a paranoid rant that can still be read today in the LA Times in an editoral regarding Bud Schulberg who "named names." Making a conspiracy theory central to the "Cold War" politics created an on-going witch hunt in domestic politics. This in turn lowered standards of proof for debate, opening the doorway to "fair and balanced," instead of "meeting standards of proof." Reason is no longer possible in political debate for conspiracy theory began replacing that 60 years ago.
PS. "Standards of proof" require forensics: that Oswald shot JFK is without forensic support because it has never been established that JFK's dorsal and ventral wounds were caused by the same projectile, a conclusion that would have required dissection of the wound to verify. No plausible forensic scenario has ever been produced for the collapse of the WTC towers 1, 2, and 7. Voices of authority claming "conspiracy theory" against investigating parties need to meet standards of forensic evidence lest their own charges take on the characteristics of "conspiracy theory" themselves.

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» RE: Conspiracy Theory Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Conspiracy Theory Posted by: ClassAct

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We should trust an admitted tool of the evil right why?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: leafsong1 on Aug 12, 2009 8:16 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This guy should well know that religious freaks are just tools in the hands of corporate plutocrats. So they aren't attacking now because of the maturation of some ideological framework; they are attacking because the evil corporate right is paying for it to happen. What a coincidence that this supposedly former employee of this same cabal is directing our attention away from it's continued involvement. THE TOWN HALL THUGS ARE THERE TO PROVIDE COVER FOR CORRUPT DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS. The fix is already in, and the thugs, like this author, are there to provide a reason, any reason, other than the obvious one: that both parties are irremediably and capitally corrupt. We progressives are supposed to defend Obama's boondoggle against the townhallers and forgive his "weakness" in the face of such a despicable attack. No mention of the role of MONEYMONEYMONEY in all these events is to be made by the plutocracy's propagandists.

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Round them up!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Ms. DuFontagne on Aug 12, 2009 8:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hey, they liked the idea of "free speech zones" so much for the past 8 years, let's bring them back! Put all the shouters in a free-speech zone a block or two away from the action, and let the grown-ups have our town-hall discussions in a civilized manner.

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» RE: ound them up! Posted by: VZEQICVA

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IT'S ALL LOST IN THE REPORTING
[Report this comment]
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Aug 12, 2009 8:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the case of Insurance reform most of the fighting is over what was reported, not to be confused with what really happend. As usual we are held hostage by the news. More specifically, the way it is reported and edited. Sarah Palin gets far too much coverage. Her purpose is to create an angry mob. She serves no purpose. She's a typical example of what passes for 'news'. As usual the news reporting is the problem. They obscure the entire picture and they know it. That's not journalism. ANNA

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» TROLL n/t Posted by: foreverhope

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Irresponsible trash
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Posted by: tmgibs on Aug 12, 2009 9:11 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Glen Beck and O'Reilly must be proud of to have spawned so many imitators on the left. This article goes beyond irresponsible to being an outrageous lie. No industry could hope to survive in this country if these assertions were even partly true.

Insurance is the symptom, not the problem. Reform health care and no one will need insurance.

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» RE: Irresponsible trash Posted by: ClassAct

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Agitating the far right, huh?
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Posted by: willymack on Aug 12, 2009 9:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those on the far right with political power don't have to be agitated. They've been bought and paid for for years now, and will do their owners' bidding.
Those without political power, and who are so easily riled up to say and do ridiculous things are MORONS who are nontheless dangerous to the rest of us because, for one thing, they're homicidal in nature and often have GUNS on them.

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The insurance company CEOs have much to be agitated about
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Posted by: photon's feather on Aug 12, 2009 12:25 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The majority of Americans want single-payer coverage.

Dangerous to those huge salaries.

Sick for Profit [Brave New Films]

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Only a Matter of Time
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Aug 12, 2009 12:32 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now that their cover has been eternally blown, they have no other choice but to encourage "the base" (or what's left of it) into a violent insurrection. That is what has been happening lately at these Town Hall Meetings. Today these people are disrupting Democracy through means of fear and intimidation. Tomorrow it will be by use of firearms. Count on it.

In an article that was posted just earlier this week on merrie ol' AlterNet (see link below) Francis Schaeffer, a former Religious Right activist who has since come home to Jesus, wrote as follows:

"THE SCORCHED EARTH POLICY: Dick Army and company have been driven mad by their reversal, not just of political fortunes but of seeing that they've wasted their lives. They now know they were wrong: about the country, the free market, war for fun and profit, and what the American people really want. They made their best case and were rejected by the American people -- and by history. Bush was their man and he turned out to be a fool. So now all the the Republican gurus have left is what the defeated Germans of World War Two had: a scorched earth policy. If they can't win then everyone must go down. Obama must fail! The country must fail!"

The scorched earth policy that Schaeffer refers to boils down to this one essential and inarguable fact: Some of them at least have bothered to learn American history. They understand all-too-well the ramifications of Franklin D. Roosevelt's victory in 1932 and the effect it had on their political antecedents. So successful was FDR's New Deal at repairing America's social and economic infrastructure after twelve years of Right Wing plunder, the Republicans would not control the executive branch of our government for twenty years. And other than one brief period, they would not control the House of Representatives for a full sixty-two years. They are absolutely determined that history does not repeat itself.

In order for the Republican party to survive politically, Barack Obama - and, thus, you and I - must fail. This very week, when it appeared that the economy might be on the mend, they were out on the talk show circuit, chanting the mantra. "Oh, no!", they bloviated. "the surge in the economy is not because of the president's policies - but in spite of them." Were we to believe the likes of John Boehner and Mitch McConnell, President Obama is the Chauncey Gardiner of American politics.

http://www.tomdegan.blogspot.com

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

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A question for the author
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Posted by: Chattyjane on Aug 12, 2009 12:36 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Schaeffer,

Do you think that by informing the public about your involvement with the pro-life movement that this somehow absolves your sins? What are doing to undo the damage that you and your father have done? You helped put America on this path, and your pathetic articles on Alternet all read the same to my eyes: "Hey- look at me! I helped start this." The blood of those clinic workers are on your hands, sir, and no amount of proclaiming "I've changed, honest!" will fix this problem.

Unless you can provide clear instructions to turn this boat around, then I suggest you keep quiet. Better yet, speak out at churches throughout the land, if you dare. You have proclaimed your expertise in inciting riots - let's see if you can incite some peace.

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» RE: A question for the author Posted by: Chattyjane

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So my question is...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: svlaws on Aug 12, 2009 12:50 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...do you feel guilty? Do you feel responsible enough to become the leading voice against these views, just as you used to be one of the leading voices for these views?

I've read a few of your mea culpa articles on Alternet and I appreciate your change of heart. Now I just want to know why you aren't forcing your way onto all the airways and screaming at the top of your lungs, "STOP!" Why aren't you forcing your way onto the podium at these town hall meetings?

Of course it's not solely up to you to counter the Christian right at this point, and you are not solely responsible. But in each of your articles, you brag about you and your father being almost solely responsible for where the Christian right is today? Are you merely bragging, or are you truly sorry?

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The MSM is happily fanning the flames and slanting their stories
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Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale on Aug 12, 2009 12:51 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As Anna says above, "it's all lost in the reporting".

My computer was down this weekend and I was forced to watch the MSM, including the Sunday AM gasbags. I was shocked at how differently they are treating these town hall meetings than Rachel Maddow or independent media sites on the Internet do.

They edit tapes that show the rabble and neglect to show the Congressperson explaining the bill. For example there was a Congresswoman from Oklahoma or Louisiana who opened by asking all Medicare recipients to raise their hands (most of the audience). Then she asked how many would want it taken away (none).
She went on to ask more salient questions using the Socratic method and this quieted the beasts somewhat. But none of that was covered on the MSM. Instead ABC and NBC only made a reference to violence and showed a photo of a woman being escorted from the hall. Pure salaciousness. Only Maddow and Olbermann showed the rest of the exchange.

The tightly controlled corporate media is just as responsible for the violence going on here as are the professional muckrakers (Freedomworks and Patients United and Americans for Prosperity) as well as the Becks/Limbaughs.

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the leaders of the free world Are just little boys throwing stones
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Posted by: tony_opmoc on Aug 12, 2009 2:56 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WE ARE GOING TO SEE THEM ON FRIDAY AND DEMAND JUSTICE


I'm sick of working for a living
I'm just ticking off the days till I die
Oh, I miss you Louise, yeah...
And the sickest little pleasures keep me going in between pulling teeth

Oh periscope up
I've been looking for a ladder
I need to see the commander in chief
And remind him what was passed onto me

Your mum don't sleep!
And the friends you keep!
I didn't raise a thief!
I didn't raise a thief!

But the leaders of the free world
Are just little boys throwing stones
And it's easy to ignore
Till they're knocking on the door of your homes

My thinking isn't driven
But the music always gives me a lift
I'm so easy to please, yeah
But I think we dropped the baton like the 60's didn't happen, oh no!

Oh periscope up
Should be looking for a ladder
I need to see the commander in chief
And remind him what was passed onto me

Your mum don't sleep!
And the friends you keep!
I didn't raise a thief!
I didn't raise a thief!

But the leaders of the free world
Are just little boys throwing stones
And it's easy to ignore
Till they're knocking on the door of your homes

But the leaders of the free world
Are just little boys throwing stones
And it's easy to ignore
Till they're knocking on the door of your homes

Passing the gun from father to feckless son
We're climbing a landslide where only the good die young
Passing the gun from father to feckless son
We're climbing a landslide where only the good die young

Tony

Lyrics copywrite of a band who come from a little Lancashire Town called Bury where I had my first job as an electrician's labourer - putting up Floursecent Light fittings using a Hilti Gun

I was 16 years old

The band are called Elbow and on Friday we will be seeing them again

IN LONDON

Tony

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» TROLL n/t Posted by: foreverhope

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Schaeffer, you have told us why the screamers, now how do we react.
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Posted by: marletat on Aug 12, 2009 3:08 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The screamers DON'T seem genuine to me! Limbaugh, Beck, Hanity followers ? Sure. Crazy unbalanced people. That too. The contorted ugly faces to me are the scariest.

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yer not appreceating our appreceation
[Report this comment]
Posted by: wolvedrive on Aug 12, 2009 3:21 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
my security needs more protection & the insurance wants a lot less exsposure,my racket needs its legislation re calibrated and the calibration really outta be gutted and re-cycled,,,New Jersey style,now thats quackery,trade ya a broken bone for say a nice french liver or spleen,and just now ,OO,today pollution aka carbon credits on sale (today only)hydro-carbon based lifeforms need not apply, at the insider trading hall of shame around the corner on brick hole and wall street mega store bizare

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Frank Who??
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Posted by: SteveA on Aug 12, 2009 3:31 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been reading stuff from the Right wing of political literature for years and never heard of this guy. He's as honest as a George Bush or Obama set-up question.

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» RE: Frank Who?? Posted by: Lily H.

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The Party is Dead! Long live the Party!!
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Posted by: SteveA on Aug 12, 2009 3:39 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You kids are SO short-saighted!

1933: The GOP? Who's that?

1956: Democrats disappear.

1974: The Repubs are dead & gone.

1980: The Dems are dead & gone.

1992: The Repubs are dead & gone.

2000: They actually nominated Al Gore?

2008: da da da da-daaah

2016: dum um da-daah

Just because you just discovered it doesn't mean you invented it, Einstein.

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Look who's talking
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Posted by: dale0k on Aug 13, 2009 9:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The insurance companies KNOW what they are tapping into. So do the rightie politicians. That's why they do it; the kindling is there - they just need to strike a spark, blow a little (propaganda and lies). But it's all about short-sighted, short-term gains. Worry about the fall-out after an explosion.

It is not hard to see who are the easily tapped for the townhall goonery - these fearful reactionary righties who do delight in having another pile of feces to fling at the left, or at a black president. Legit logic or truth be dam...d. A black president is a very convenient "whipping boy" for these folks.

The hate and bias needs no real logic or reality, just trumped up fears and emotional bumper sticker bleatings.

I fear it will go badly. The mayhem is the least of it. Wait til the shooting starts.

It's been the same with global warming issues (or any other controversial issue), to a milder degree, when it comes to profits and power. If it doesn't help our bottom line this month - let's wait 'til the poles melt- maybe by then we'll be selling life rafts...

I feel very bad about this - this is about the moment Obama mentioned in his campaign -- time to make a change, it's on US to put the big money out to pasture, and help ourselves as a people.

Big money will not sit idly by and let it happen. And they are using the very victims of their policies to do the dirty work.

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» RE: Look who's talking Posted by: sathompson1

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If you read the bill you will see that the right wing nut jobs
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Posted by: Javan on Aug 14, 2009 2:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't know what they are talking about. Someone told them what it said, which was a lie and the believed it!

It is over 1000 pages but it is big print and not that many words per page. Took me about two hours to read and I'm not a speed reader.

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iPod Touch Converter
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Posted by: boay on Aug 19, 2009 6:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
iPod Touch Converter is specially designed for conversion about iPod touch from other video and audio foramts. For its professional design, it can help you great with fast running speed and video and audio and pic quality keeping. Only several dollars can confer you the right to perform most of the iPod touch conversion with the supporting formats like MPG, MPEG, MPEG2, SWF, FLV, VOB, MOD, MP4, H.264, M4V, AVI, WMV, 3GP, 3GPP, MOV, DivX, XviD, QuickTime Video, DV, MJPG, MJPEG, MPV, etc. M2TS Converter has two powerful functions. One is to convert M2TS to AVI, DVD, MPEG, VOB, H264, MP4, etc. and convert M2TS to PS3, iPod, iPhone, Apple TV, PSP, etc. Another is powerful M2TS editing function which can make you freely customize M2TS files.

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Alternet Comments:

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Another one?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: bonapartist on Aug 12, 2009 2:07 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Really, this is fifth or sixth article within a week about town hall meetings.

Where was all this written outrage when Obama continued Iraqi war, expanded Afghan war and bailed out the rich? The number of articles about those topics was nowehere as near to this blitz.

What is it? Obama screwed up everything he touched up and until this point so we have to rally the troops for his health care plan?

What a wodnerful idea, it turned the issue from debate abotu helth care reform into "you are with us or against us" shouting match.

Oppose Obama's plan - you are neo nazi pro GOP
Support Obama's plan - you are a progresssive

Can we discuss the damn PLAN please?

I have no intetnion of supporting another pile of Bambam's garbage just because GOP and right wing happen to yell againt it.

Not to mention both GOP and Dems are enjoying media coverage and are getting away with murder while people are too busy foaming at the mouth over this charade.

Iraq war is on, Afghan war is on, its extension into Pakistan is on, bailout for the rich came from taxpayer's pockets, economy continues to crumble but hey let us get all worked out about disrupted town hall meetings!

Feel free to get out your pitchforks just remember that Obama's health care plan will consist of only what he and lobbiyists care to give you.

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» RE: Another one? Posted by: jiminator
» Hey Beck!!! Posted by: Karlh
» RE: Hey Beck!!! Posted by: Malamute
» ? Posted by: Karlh
» RE: ? Posted by: Malamute
» Aren't you special Posted by: Karlh
» Prophit.... Posted by: Quannah
» you can't even spell correctly Posted by: mtbarbee
» Please Pray For Senator Kennedy Posted by: foreverhope

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The Left Should Be Using The Same Tactics In Opposition To ObamaCare
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Posted by: jooljetkmae on Aug 12, 2009 2:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why are so many liberals so afraid of this kind of direct action?:

http://counterpunch.org/mokhiber08102009.html

Single payer advocates attempted to do the same thing at the hearings Senator Baucus held earlier this year. Unfortunately, actions like that don't get much media attention, outside of Democracy Now! Now the right adopts those same tactics in opposition to Obama's plan, and many liberals making the ridiculous Brown Shirt comparison. Give me a break.

What in Obama's plan is there for his liberal base to defend? It's a continuation of the unacceptable status quo.

That's what is sad about what is going on. Obama has pulled a Hillary on health care and effectively killed any chance at a real reform by helping to kill the single payer option.

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A cornered rat
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Posted by: Perry Logan on Aug 12, 2009 2:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Schaeffer knows whereof he speaks, and I would not deny the possibility of violence.

But...give me a break! If you haven't noticed wingers are full of sh*t, you haven't been paying attention.

The Right in America are a creepy minority of white males who are obsessed with gays and, for some reason, want to force women to have babies. Thanks to a lot of money and scullduggery, they have largely held the reins of power for the last 30 years.

The results were so horrific that the Republic lies bleeding. They left just enough of our democracy intact for us to throw them out. :)

What we're seeing is impotent rage from a defeated minority. You can almost taste the fear in the townhall protesters.

We should definitely keep an eye on these unstable white guys. But we should fear them only in the way one should fear a cornered rat.


Bait & Switch

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» RE: Or a rabid dog Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» I can tell you what they will do Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: A cornered rat Posted by: dmaciewski
» RE: A cornered rat Posted by: aichbe

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The Link That Isn't
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Posted by: johnwinthrop on Aug 12, 2009 3:06 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Schaeffer admits the insurance industry isn't part of the nutty, Obamacarer is Murder mob:


"I'm not sure if the insurance industry leaders using lobbyists to stir the pot know what they've just hooked into. Do they know that the comparisons of Obama to Hitler, and the call to break up a wholly imaginary "conspiracy" against the elderly may lead the fringe of the fringe to the next step? Is this fear of mine far-fetched? I don't think so. To most Americans the killing of Dr. Tiller was murder. To many in the pro-life movement it was a courageous act by a patriot."

But later he claims there is a "link" between the insurance industry and the anti-abortion extremists. He does not prove any link.

This is as much a smear as the nutcakes who claim end of life counseling under Medicare is euthanasia.

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» RE: The Link That Isn't Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: The Link That Isn't Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: The Link That Is Posted by: Sister_Lauren

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popham
[Report this comment]
Posted by: popham on Aug 12, 2009 5:21 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr.Schaeffer may be correct.
America has never been closer to a 21st century
American Revolution. What form or what intensity that revolution takes, remains to be
seen.
The Adm. and Congress tried to jam through
health care legislation, without even reading
any of the 1017 pages! The people found out what they were up to. Along with the spin and
propaganda that we've been fed re: health care,
cap and trade, and taxes, the American citizenry has uncovered the true and perilous
path on which the democratic left is taking this country. The American people see through
this charade and they don't like it one bit.
Even staunch democrats are suffering from voter remorse.
All of this, has indeed given every right wing
politician, pundit, organization and internet
website a valid reason to make their voices heard. These so-called fringe elements may
appear to be radical; however, there may be some justification to their movement.
We suggest that everyone read the first four
paragraphs of the Declaration of Independence.
When, in the course of human events, a government ceases to properly serve its people,
then the people have the right and obligation
to protect and preserve the sovereignty,
integrity and safety of their country.
We can and must at this critical time in history join forces as one family of 300 million Americans and show the world, that we are indeed the greatest nation on earth.

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So Ironic
[Report this comment]
Posted by: snowhound on Aug 12, 2009 5:28 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush was also compared to Hitler and Alternet didn't find anything wrong with it. Maybe this term is used because every President that is elected introduces legislation that eliminates our civil liberties. With Bush it was the Patriot Act and the Military Commisions Act. Obama's Health Care Plan will take away our Health Freedom.

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» RE: So Ironic Posted by: MT512
» RE: So Ironic Posted by: snowhound
» RE: So Ironic Posted by: MT512
» RE: So Ironic Posted by: snowhound
» RE: So Ironic Posted by: LANCE
» RE: So Ironic Posted by: Morell

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Whilst I Think Lyndon LaRouche is a Nut - He's Not Exactly Right Wing
[Report this comment]
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Aug 12, 2009 6:10 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On his website, there is "research" going back months with regards to Medical advisors to Obama, and their published papers with respect to the rationing of health care.

In the real world health care does indeed need to be rationed. In America it is currently done by wealth. This is grossly unfair on the poor.

The problem though, is that some of these papers - that have been published in the Lancet, actually mention specifics with regards to the worth of different groups of people. The implication is that if you fall into the wrong group, you will be less likely to receive expensive life saving treatment. This can/has and will be interpreted as being similar to practices in Nazi Germany.

Such decisions should not become public policy. Whilst in the real world, life and death decisions always have to be taken, every case should be examined on its own merits individually.

Life support machines can keep apparently brain dead people alive for considerable periods, and in some rare cases - people do make full recoveries. There is however a limit on the number of such machines.

People shouldn't be kept alive indefinitely on the basis of their wealth, leaving the poor with easily treatable conditions to die without treatment.

But once you start writing policy on who is / is not to be kept alive - you are walking in a minefield of potential protest, by people who simply do not understand the issues.

Tony

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Were You There?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Arlene on Aug 12, 2009 6:10 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was at the repro rights rallies and at abortion provider facilities and saw it up close and personal. The religious right helped to make the environment safe for bullies to harrass and intimidate. That included nonresponse by the police.

My local chapter of the National Organization for Women got a permit for a rally in the park in downtown Park Ridge, IL. The Pro-Life Action League (later a co-defendant in a RICO suit) showed up with a bullhorn, inserted themselves in our event and did just what the screamers are doing now. When the police refused to respond to our calls for help, we marched over to the next block and held our rally on the steps of the police station. This embarrassed the police chief who was forced to finally act.

This was one of the more egregious and outlandish of many similar incidents that caused grief over the years. I grew up an evangelical. The leadership, along with the catholic hierarchy, saw a marketing opportunity in the abortion issue and used it cynically to further their own influence in the political process in a malign way.

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» RE: Were You There? Posted by: Sister_Lauren

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The 9/11 conspiracy is behind Obama's health care plan,
[Report this comment]
Posted by: peterjkraus on Aug 12, 2009 6:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the Bilderbergers wrote it and Obama's fake birth certificate was actually printed by aliens on Alpha Centauri.

The Alpha Centaurians have landed! Again! And now they're among us, posting conspiracy crap on Alter Net and injecting a bit of levity into my otherwise dull day. Dull, because we progressives are known to be total downers who had their last good laugh when Bush choked on that pretzel.

So, thanks, aliens, for all the wingy-nutty posts. Keep up the good work!

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» we have a leak! we have a leak! Posted by: hurricane hugo

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2 comments from a Nebraska farmer
[Report this comment]
Posted by: zooeyhall on Aug 12, 2009 6:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have been watching with amazement the fracas over health care, and I am constantly coming back to two observations:

1) If you look at the videos, almost all these jerks raising such a ruckus are middle-aged white males. And things seem a little too "staged". I strongly suspect they are shills or fakes sent to the meetings by the local right-wing clubs.

2) Obama is waaaayy too naive about dealing with the right wing in this country. He seems to feel that he "needs to compromise" and that these people can be reasonable if just listened to, etc. etc. Trouble is: the rightists in the American political process don't believe in "compromise"--to them you don't "compromise" with the devil. And the devil being gays, liberals, Obama, free choice types, and those who don't goose step when the flag is raised. At most, compromise to them is something like a temporary cease fire in a war. To give you time to pull back and plan your next attack on the enemy.

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» Correction on my post. Posted by: maxpayne
» Fuck, here's another ONE! Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: Fuck, here's another ONE! Posted by: tony_opmoc
» Perhaps Posted by: Hiroak
» I keep hearing how 'brilliant' he is... Posted by: photon's feather
» There, you see? Posted by: photon's feather
» Farmers are indeed wise Posted by: Hiroak
» RE: Farmers are indeed wise Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» never had a hog in my life Posted by: zooeyhall

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Its A Personal Choice.
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Posted by: melpol on Aug 12, 2009 6:30 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is no right or wrong etched in stone. Getting a better deal is the issue. If you are a person that is employed by an insurance company that provides health care, you have a perfect right to be angry. It is wrong for the government to take away your bosses business. But if you are a youngster that wants a lifetime of inexpensive health care, choose the Medicare program offered by Uncle Sam.

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» A ray of hope: Posted by: leafsong1

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didn't we have this article a few days ago???
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Posted by: ellie on Aug 12, 2009 6:41 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
!

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The cure.....
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Aug 12, 2009 6:46 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can we just lock up all of these crazies, for their own protection and ours, until after those more honest and intelligent have discussions and get this thing moving thru Congress to the Presidents desk!

I don't mind opposition based on "real" honest reasoning, the faux reasoning from the rabid, dishonest, distorted whores & liars on the right (along with the blind allegiance of idiots too lazy to even attempt to understand the issues) is that they aren't looking out for "WE THE PEOPLE" - they ARE SHILLING FOR THE CORPORATE OLIGARCHY!!! ENOUGH OF THEIR LIES, NO MORE SELL-OUTS, NO MORE PROSTITUTION - AND IF YOU MUST CAN YOU AT LEAST WEAR SOME PUMPS AND LIPSTICK!!!

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» RE: The cure..... Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: The cure..... Posted by: Malamute
» RE: The cure..... Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: The cure..... Posted by: Malamute

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The status quo suits the ideologically pure left too
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Posted by: ETSpoon on Aug 12, 2009 6:48 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Odd, isn't it, that at one time not all the long ago when it came to universal health care coverage the ideologically pure left "said" they wanted all Americans to have what Congress has, access to the Federal Employees Health Care Benefits Program (FEHBP.)

When upon closer examination it was disclosed that the FEHBP is really only a pool of private and union-owned health care insurance companies with monthly premiums, co-payments and deductibles held in-check by 70% employer (i.e. the federal government) subsidies. That being the case opening the FEHBP to all Americans was no longer as an attractive option to the ideologically pure left anymore. So it was time to more on to something else.

That something else was a Canadian-style single payer health care system. So fixated on the Canadian plan, the leading lights of the ideologically pure left close off dialog at the mere mention of the French, German, Netherlands or Japanese mixed public/private health care delivery systems. An odd reaction for people who wear t-shirts printed with the legend, "A mind is like a parachute. It only works when it's open."

One of the most curious things I have read on the Internet posted by the ideologically pure left has been a denunciation of Congressman Dennis Kucinich, the only man in America, to my knowledge, who has a clear, concise, comprehensive single payer health care plan in hand. The argument, if it called that, was, Representative Kucinich was somehow not progressive or ideologically pure enough because he will not denounce the Democratic Party. For the savvy Kucinich taking that step would be political suicide, as he would lose what influence he now has in the US House and face certain electoral defeat in "red" leaning Ohio as a third-party or independent candidate.

Yes an odd reaction, indeed, for people who are already old enough to be on Medicare, or who have generous employer-provided health care benefits from the university or college or Christian denomination or defense contractor at which they work. And for those whiling away their time on college campuses before entering the world of coordinator class employment.

The intransigence of the ideologically pure left in support of a Canadian-style single payer health care system feds right into the right wing feedback loop as "socialized-big government-death panel" health care. I am sure in their endless trawling of the Internet universe a Matt Drudge or the operatives of a Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh know the positions of some of the leading ideologically pure left on health care.

It seems to me that the ideologically pure left is nostalgic of the "good old days" of the Clinton administration post-1994 and Newt Gingrich's "Contract On America" Republican US House majority.

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» I've been promoted! Posted by: ETSpoon
» On the contrary... Posted by: leafsong1

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Always Question Authority
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Posted by: dover23 on Aug 12, 2009 6:59 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
you know you're on the right track when

- your opinions are ridiculed by an establishment media outlet

- you're mistaken for a lefty when neocons are running the circus

- you're mistaken for a neocon when lefties are running the circus

- overprivileged clueless white kids are worked into a neurotic frenzy over your dissent and they feel empowered by giving your comments a 1 rating on an irrelevant website

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» RE: Always Question Authority Posted by: TheExpatriate

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Deadly?
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Posted by: dover23 on Aug 12, 2009 7:11 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
townhall meetings could turn deadly?

what about Afghanistan?

http://icasualties.org/oef/

why did the lefty media take a stronger antiwar stance when their guy wasn't commander in chief?

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» RE: Deadly? Posted by: snax
» RE: Deadly? Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» TROLL n/t Posted by: foreverhope
» Tony I know you Posted by: foreverhope

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Here's What Bothers Me...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: popeurbanxxiii on Aug 12, 2009 7:54 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...about the "angry mobs".

The religious/authoritarian type personality is a follower. A large percentage don't have an original thought in their brains. They are the kind who simply regurgitate the "talking points". They look to their leaders - church, civic, educational, or business - to tell them what is right or wrong. They believe in a heirarchical command structure and everybody knowing and understanding their place in this structure.

All too many of them lack a critical intellect that would allow them to make comparisons and engage in a bit of introspection. They will take the words of their leaders as "gospel truth".

Since, in this world view, God's will is disseminated down the heirarchy, to question "your betters" is anathema - tantamount to questioning God.

When these people start to hear the same "buzz-words" interspersed into the health care debate, these people react. They make that subconscious link with the "gospel truth" they heard in the anti-abortion debate. It subconsciously becomes "God's Work". Opposing health care reform is "the right thing to do".

All of this is happening on a subliminal level. Many of them don't think that they are being manipulated because they have read it on the "internets tubes" and heard it repeated in the media "echo chamber" (To be fair, lefties can be manipulated in much the same manner).

A lot of what passes for argument is just emotional "button pushing" - make the mob angry and then tell them what they are supposed to be angry about. Most of us know that you can not reason with an enraged person. The anger blocks rational thought. The manipulators of the "angry white males" know this and use it to their advantage.

What the manipulators always forget is the concept of blowback. You can't put the genie back in the bottle once released. They have let loose some forces they no longer control. Somebody is going to get killed in all probability.

There is no discussion when all sides are shouting.

"Bipartisanship is another word for date rape." -Grover Norquist (Republican stragegist, friend and associate of "Turd Blossom" Rove)

Peace be with us all...
Pope Urban XXIII

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Those That Are...
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Posted by: The Old Hippie on Aug 12, 2009 8:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
 
“Telling It Like It Is In Reality, Not As We Hope It is.”

Enjoy your reality...
 

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Conspiracy Theory
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Posted by: ClassAct on Aug 12, 2009 8:04 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since the death of FDR, American politics of both the liberal and conservative types have turned upon a single conspiracy theory: the international Communist conspiracy, a paranoid rant that can still be read today in the LA Times in an editoral regarding Bud Schulberg who "named names." Making a conspiracy theory central to the "Cold War" politics created an on-going witch hunt in domestic politics. This in turn lowered standards of proof for debate, opening the doorway to "fair and balanced," instead of "meeting standards of proof." Reason is no longer possible in political debate for conspiracy theory began replacing that 60 years ago.
PS. "Standards of proof" require forensics: that Oswald shot JFK is without forensic support because it has never been established that JFK's dorsal and ventral wounds were caused by the same projectile, a conclusion that would have required dissection of the wound to verify. No plausible forensic scenario has ever been produced for the collapse of the WTC towers 1, 2, and 7. Voices of authority claming "conspiracy theory" against investigating parties need to meet standards of forensic evidence lest their own charges take on the characteristics of "conspiracy theory" themselves.

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» RE: Conspiracy Theory Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Conspiracy Theory Posted by: ClassAct

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We should trust an admitted tool of the evil right why?
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Posted by: leafsong1 on Aug 12, 2009 8:16 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This guy should well know that religious freaks are just tools in the hands of corporate plutocrats. So they aren't attacking now because of the maturation of some ideological framework; they are attacking because the evil corporate right is paying for it to happen. What a coincidence that this supposedly former employee of this same cabal is directing our attention away from it's continued involvement. THE TOWN HALL THUGS ARE THERE TO PROVIDE COVER FOR CORRUPT DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS. The fix is already in, and the thugs, like this author, are there to provide a reason, any reason, other than the obvious one: that both parties are irremediably and capitally corrupt. We progressives are supposed to defend Obama's boondoggle against the townhallers and forgive his "weakness" in the face of such a despicable attack. No mention of the role of MONEYMONEYMONEY in all these events is to be made by the plutocracy's propagandists.

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Round them up!
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Posted by: Ms. DuFontagne on Aug 12, 2009 8:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hey, they liked the idea of "free speech zones" so much for the past 8 years, let's bring them back! Put all the shouters in a free-speech zone a block or two away from the action, and let the grown-ups have our town-hall discussions in a civilized manner.

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» RE: ound them up! Posted by: VZEQICVA

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IT'S ALL LOST IN THE REPORTING
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Aug 12, 2009 8:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the case of Insurance reform most of the fighting is over what was reported, not to be confused with what really happend. As usual we are held hostage by the news. More specifically, the way it is reported and edited. Sarah Palin gets far too much coverage. Her purpose is to create an angry mob. She serves no purpose. She's a typical example of what passes for 'news'. As usual the news reporting is the problem. They obscure the entire picture and they know it. That's not journalism. ANNA

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» TROLL n/t Posted by: foreverhope

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Irresponsible trash
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Posted by: tmgibs on Aug 12, 2009 9:11 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Glen Beck and O'Reilly must be proud of to have spawned so many imitators on the left. This article goes beyond irresponsible to being an outrageous lie. No industry could hope to survive in this country if these assertions were even partly true.

Insurance is the symptom, not the problem. Reform health care and no one will need insurance.

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» RE: Irresponsible trash Posted by: ClassAct

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Agitating the far right, huh?
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Posted by: willymack on Aug 12, 2009 9:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those on the far right with political power don't have to be agitated. They've been bought and paid for for years now, and will do their owners' bidding.
Those without political power, and who are so easily riled up to say and do ridiculous things are MORONS who are nontheless dangerous to the rest of us because, for one thing, they're homicidal in nature and often have GUNS on them.

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The insurance company CEOs have much to be agitated about
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Posted by: photon's feather on Aug 12, 2009 12:25 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The majority of Americans want single-payer coverage.

Dangerous to those huge salaries.

Sick for Profit [Brave New Films]

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Only a Matter of Time
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Aug 12, 2009 12:32 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now that their cover has been eternally blown, they have no other choice but to encourage "the base" (or what's left of it) into a violent insurrection. That is what has been happening lately at these Town Hall Meetings. Today these people are disrupting Democracy through means of fear and intimidation. Tomorrow it will be by use of firearms. Count on it.

In an article that was posted just earlier this week on merrie ol' AlterNet (see link below) Francis Schaeffer, a former Religious Right activist who has since come home to Jesus, wrote as follows:

"THE SCORCHED EARTH POLICY: Dick Army and company have been driven mad by their reversal, not just of political fortunes but of seeing that they've wasted their lives. They now know they were wrong: about the country, the free market, war for fun and profit, and what the American people really want. They made their best case and were rejected by the American people -- and by history. Bush was their man and he turned out to be a fool. So now all the the Republican gurus have left is what the defeated Germans of World War Two had: a scorched earth policy. If they can't win then everyone must go down. Obama must fail! The country must fail!"

The scorched earth policy that Schaeffer refers to boils down to this one essential and inarguable fact: Some of them at least have bothered to learn American history. They understand all-too-well the ramifications of Franklin D. Roosevelt's victory in 1932 and the effect it had on their political antecedents. So successful was FDR's New Deal at repairing America's social and economic infrastructure after twelve years of Right Wing plunder, the Republicans would not control the executive branch of our government for twenty years. And other than one brief period, they would not control the House of Representatives for a full sixty-two years. They are absolutely determined that history does not repeat itself.

In order for the Republican party to survive politically, Barack Obama - and, thus, you and I - must fail. This very week, when it appeared that the economy might be on the mend, they were out on the talk show circuit, chanting the mantra. "Oh, no!", they bloviated. "the surge in the economy is not because of the president's policies - but in spite of them." Were we to believe the likes of John Boehner and Mitch McConnell, President Obama is the Chauncey Gardiner of American politics.

http://www.tomdegan.blogspot.com

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

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A question for the author
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Chattyjane on Aug 12, 2009 12:36 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Schaeffer,

Do you think that by informing the public about your involvement with the pro-life movement that this somehow absolves your sins? What are doing to undo the damage that you and your father have done? You helped put America on this path, and your pathetic articles on Alternet all read the same to my eyes: "Hey- look at me! I helped start this." The blood of those clinic workers are on your hands, sir, and no amount of proclaiming "I've changed, honest!" will fix this problem.

Unless you can provide clear instructions to turn this boat around, then I suggest you keep quiet. Better yet, speak out at churches throughout the land, if you dare. You have proclaimed your expertise in inciting riots - let's see if you can incite some peace.

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» RE: A question for the author Posted by: Chattyjane

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So my question is...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: svlaws on Aug 12, 2009 12:50 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...do you feel guilty? Do you feel responsible enough to become the leading voice against these views, just as you used to be one of the leading voices for these views?

I've read a few of your mea culpa articles on Alternet and I appreciate your change of heart. Now I just want to know why you aren't forcing your way onto all the airways and screaming at the top of your lungs, "STOP!" Why aren't you forcing your way onto the podium at these town hall meetings?

Of course it's not solely up to you to counter the Christian right at this point, and you are not solely responsible. But in each of your articles, you brag about you and your father being almost solely responsible for where the Christian right is today? Are you merely bragging, or are you truly sorry?

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The MSM is happily fanning the flames and slanting their stories
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Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale on Aug 12, 2009 12:51 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As Anna says above, "it's all lost in the reporting".

My computer was down this weekend and I was forced to watch the MSM, including the Sunday AM gasbags. I was shocked at how differently they are treating these town hall meetings than Rachel Maddow or independent media sites on the Internet do.

They edit tapes that show the rabble and neglect to show the Congressperson explaining the bill. For example there was a Congresswoman from Oklahoma or Louisiana who opened by asking all Medicare recipients to raise their hands (most of the audience). Then she asked how many would want it taken away (none).
She went on to ask more salient questions using the Socratic method and this quieted the beasts somewhat. But none of that was covered on the MSM. Instead ABC and NBC only made a reference to violence and showed a photo of a woman being escorted from the hall. Pure salaciousness. Only Maddow and Olbermann showed the rest of the exchange.

The tightly controlled corporate media is just as responsible for the violence going on here as are the professional muckrakers (Freedomworks and Patients United and Americans for Prosperity) as well as the Becks/Limbaughs.

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the leaders of the free world Are just little boys throwing stones
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Posted by: tony_opmoc on Aug 12, 2009 2:56 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WE ARE GOING TO SEE THEM ON FRIDAY AND DEMAND JUSTICE


I'm sick of working for a living
I'm just ticking off the days till I die
Oh, I miss you Louise, yeah...
And the sickest little pleasures keep me going in between pulling teeth

Oh periscope up
I've been looking for a ladder
I need to see the commander in chief
And remind him what was passed onto me

Your mum don't sleep!
And the friends you keep!
I didn't raise a thief!
I didn't raise a thief!

But the leaders of the free world
Are just little boys throwing stones
And it's easy to ignore
Till they're knocking on the door of your homes

My thinking isn't driven
But the music always gives me a lift
I'm so easy to please, yeah
But I think we dropped the baton like the 60's didn't happen, oh no!

Oh periscope up
Should be looking for a ladder
I need to see the commander in chief
And remind him what was passed onto me

Your mum don't sleep!
And the friends you keep!
I didn't raise a thief!
I didn't raise a thief!

But the leaders of the free world
Are just little boys throwing stones
And it's easy to ignore
Till they're knocking on the door of your homes

But the leaders of the free world
Are just little boys throwing stones
And it's easy to ignore
Till they're knocking on the door of your homes

Passing the gun from father to feckless son
We're climbing a landslide where only the good die young
Passing the gun from father to feckless son
We're climbing a landslide where only the good die young

Tony

Lyrics copywrite of a band who come from a little Lancashire Town called Bury where I had my first job as an electrician's labourer - putting up Floursecent Light fittings using a Hilti Gun

I was 16 years old

The band are called Elbow and on Friday we will be seeing them again

IN LONDON

Tony

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» TROLL n/t Posted by: foreverhope

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Schaeffer, you have told us why the screamers, now how do we react.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: marletat on Aug 12, 2009 3:08 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The screamers DON'T seem genuine to me! Limbaugh, Beck, Hanity followers ? Sure. Crazy unbalanced people. That too. The contorted ugly faces to me are the scariest.

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yer not appreceating our appreceation
[Report this comment]
Posted by: wolvedrive on Aug 12, 2009 3:21 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
my security needs more protection & the insurance wants a lot less exsposure,my racket needs its legislation re calibrated and the calibration really outta be gutted and re-cycled,,,New Jersey style,now thats quackery,trade ya a broken bone for say a nice french liver or spleen,and just now ,OO,today pollution aka carbon credits on sale (today only)hydro-carbon based lifeforms need not apply, at the insider trading hall of shame around the corner on brick hole and wall street mega store bizare

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Frank Who??
[Report this comment]
Posted by: SteveA on Aug 12, 2009 3:31 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been reading stuff from the Right wing of political literature for years and never heard of this guy. He's as honest as a George Bush or Obama set-up question.

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» RE: Frank Who?? Posted by: Lily H.

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The Party is Dead! Long live the Party!!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: SteveA on Aug 12, 2009 3:39 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You kids are SO short-saighted!

1933: The GOP? Who's that?

1956: Democrats disappear.

1974: The Repubs are dead & gone.

1980: The Dems are dead & gone.

1992: The Repubs are dead & gone.

2000: They actually nominated Al Gore?

2008: da da da da-daaah

2016: dum um da-daah

Just because you just discovered it doesn't mean you invented it, Einstein.

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Look who's talking
[Report this comment]
Posted by: dale0k on Aug 13, 2009 9:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The insurance companies KNOW what they are tapping into. So do the rightie politicians. That's why they do it; the kindling is there - they just need to strike a spark, blow a little (propaganda and lies). But it's all about short-sighted, short-term gains. Worry about the fall-out after an explosion.

It is not hard to see who are the easily tapped for the townhall goonery - these fearful reactionary righties who do delight in having another pile of feces to fling at the left, or at a black president. Legit logic or truth be dam...d. A black president is a very convenient "whipping boy" for these folks.

The hate and bias needs no real logic or reality, just trumped up fears and emotional bumper sticker bleatings.

I fear it will go badly. The mayhem is the least of it. Wait til the shooting starts.

It's been the same with global warming issues (or any other controversial issue), to a milder degree, when it comes to profits and power. If it doesn't help our bottom line this month - let's wait 'til the poles melt- maybe by then we'll be selling life rafts...

I feel very bad about this - this is about the moment Obama mentioned in his campaign -- time to make a change, it's on US to put the big money out to pasture, and help ourselves as a people.

Big money will not sit idly by and let it happen. And they are using the very victims of their policies to do the dirty work.

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» RE: Look who's talking Posted by: sathompson1

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If you read the bill you will see that the right wing nut jobs
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Javan on Aug 14, 2009 2:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't know what they are talking about. Someone told them what it said, which was a lie and the believed it!

It is over 1000 pages but it is big print and not that many words per page. Took me about two hours to read and I'm not a speed reader.

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iPod Touch Converter
[Report this comment]
Posted by: boay on Aug 19, 2009 6:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
iPod Touch Converter is specially designed for conversion about iPod touch from other video and audio foramts. For its professional design, it can help you great with fast running speed and video and audio and pic quality keeping. Only several dollars can confer you the right to perform most of the iPod touch conversion with the supporting formats like MPG, MPEG, MPEG2, SWF, FLV, VOB, MOD, MP4, H.264, M4V, AVI, WMV, 3GP, 3GPP, MOV, DivX, XviD, QuickTime Video, DV, MJPG, MJPEG, MPV, etc. M2TS Converter has two powerful functions. One is to convert M2TS to AVI, DVD, MPEG, VOB, H264, MP4, etc. and convert M2TS to PS3, iPod, iPhone, Apple TV, PSP, etc. Another is powerful M2TS editing function which can make you freely customize M2TS files.

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