NEWS & POLITICS  
AlterNet / By Adele M. Stan
comments_imageCOMMENTS: 336

Gun-Nut Outside Obama Townhall Linked to GOP 'Stop ObamaCare' Effort

Strapped with a loaded gun, William Kostric carried a message from the GOP's "break Obama" campaign.
August 12, 2009  |  
 
 
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On Aug. 11, William Kostric of New Hampshire strapped a loaded gun to his leg, and went to greet the president of the United States.

His message was sponsored with the tacit approval of a social networking site promoted by a well-connected Republican public-relations firm.

Kostric's action was within the law; New Hampshire gun laws permit registered gun owners to carry their weapons in public, as long as they are not concealed. Standing with a crowd of anti-government protesters on the property of a church that abutted the high school campus where Barack Obama would conduct a town-hall meeting on health-care reform, Kostric carried a sign that read, "It's time to water the tree of liberty."

The slogan refers to a classic quote from Thomas Jefferson: "The tree of liberty must be refreshed, from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

The sign bore the image of the coiled and threatening rattlesnake that adorned an early U.S. battle flag that included the words, "Don't tread on me."

At the bottom of Kostric's sign, viewers were informed that the message was "brought to you by restoretherepublic.org."

Visit the site of Restore the Republic, and you will find a wealth of information on some of the far right's favorite conspiracy theories: the Bilderberg conspiracy, the Tri-Lateral Commission, the New World Order and "FEMA internment camps." The site is a draw for anti-government gun enthusiasts and survivalists.

While Kostric and his "freedom movement" compatriots hover at the fringe of America society, they are not without usefulness to the Republican Party.

On Monday, I reported on the organizing of town-hall protesters done by Grassfire and its sibling site, ResistNet. Grassfire is represented by Shirley & Banister Public Affairs, a public-relations firm that represents mainstream Republican figures, according to the firm's Web site. Clients include Wall Street Journal columnist Peggy Noonan and Weekly Standard editor William Kristol. Grassfire, a new-media nonprofit organization, is endorsed by Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., who famously announced his intention to "break" Obama by making health-care reform "his Waterloo."

A search on the ResistNet social networking site yielded 29 pages of comments containing links to Restore the Republic.

Several were in response to a Restore the Republic piece by by Margie Laupheimer posted on ResistNet, which issues the familiar denial of the existence of Obama's birth certificate. "Some are suggesting that Obama is off the hook concerning his lack of an authentic birth certificate ... " she begins.
Reply by arthur ellzey on July 22, 2009 at 5:20am
we must stop him!!?

Reply by SHAWN on July 22, 2009 at 12:16pm

HE IS GUILTY!!!!!, ALONG WITH ALL OF THE OTHERS IN OUR GOVERNMENT WHO ARE ALLOWING THIS CRAP! IT IS TIME TO CLEAN HOUSE!!!!!

A post from Cathari in March 2009 refers readers to a document on Restore the Republic chronicling the resurgence of the militia movement. The headline asks, "Are You A Dangerous Conspiracy Theorist? A Danger To Law Enforcement? Perhaps to The Government Itself?
... this should be read by anyone who thought the Movement was dead and buried back in the 1990s. It is alive and well and thriving and frightening the hell out of Law Enforcement and our "Government" ... I wonder why ...

According to the Restore the Republic Web site, the organization was founded in 2007 by the late Aaron Russo as a follow-up to his film, America: Freedom to Fascism, a documentary that contends that the U.S income tax is illegal because the 16th amendment was never ratified by the states.

Russo ran, unsuccessfully, in Nevada's 1998 Republican gubernatorial primary, and endorsed Texas Republican Rep. Ron Paul in his 2008 presidential bid. In his Hollywood heyday, Russo produced such hits as Trading Places, The Rose and Wise Guys.

Like the denizens of Restore the Republic, Russo opposed the not just the Federal Reserve and the Internal Revenue Service, but the captains of industry who built the U.S. banking system.

How ironic, then, that the so-called freedom movement represented by Restore the Republic has placed itself in the service of the nation's corporations as it seeks to derail health-care reform.


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Adele M. Stan AlterNet's acting Washington bureau chief.
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I HOPE THE SECRET SERVICE KEEEPS TRACK OF THIS GUY
[Report this comment]
Posted by: orwellturns on Aug 12, 2009 1:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is it that only liberals are targeted by people like this? Irony is totally lost on these people, the only good things most have going in their lives are programs that liberals have fought for and gotten done.
The media doesn't help either. I went to a health care event today and although there were a couple of hundred people cheering and chanting in support of health care reform, ABC news only mentioned that the Congressman had gotten "jeered". The "jeers" were only from one loonie toon carrying a picture of President Obama with a Hitler mustache that the rest of us bood him for. I was standing next to the reporter for most of that time and I know he heard and saw what I saw The cheers in support were deafening compared to the jeers. .
NBC focused on the picture and the decenter.

We must stand strong and continue to support public option health care or we will not see this again for decades.

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» Nah Posted by: EinMD
» RE: Nah Posted by: astralman
» RE: Nah Posted by: Bozwell

Comments are closed-

Yawn.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: uncertain on Aug 12, 2009 1:48 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, here's a man, legally carrying a registered firearm on private property - with the property owners' permission.

What a non-story.

Anybody with any amount of common sense knows that the Secret Service isn't going to allow that man within a mile of the President while he's carrying a gun.

Who cares?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Yawning is illegal now. Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Yawning is illegal now. Posted by: Quannah
» BWAAH hAhHAHAhah..... Posted by: lupuslefou
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: mchllecat
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: EJLima
» RE: Yawn, but consider this. Posted by: redbridge
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: crashgrab
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: Morell
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: madcat007
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: Malamute

Comments are closed-

What's to comment on? Bad article!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: fsuthai on Aug 12, 2009 1:48 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author must have been on a tight deadline. What happened to the "armed & dangerous" protester? Was he thrown to the ground, handcuffed, and lead away by elements of the Homeland Gestapo for chargeless & indeterminate incarceration like the peaceful protesters at the two farcical national nominating conventions? Strange, abrupt ending. Nobody doing any final editing at Alternet?

And, while speaking of Alternet's foibles, how could you ban "pfgetty" from making any further comments...whether about the lack of additional investigation over the lies, cover-up, and lingering questions & inconveniences regarding the 9/11 betrayals, or Alternet's failure to pursue any facet of this obvious Inside Job? I felt Dr. Getty was always polite and his queries and comments respectful, to the point, and crucial to the healing of America's left/right antagonism and our lack of any respect throughout the rest of the world. Now I will probably be besieged by negative comments from the likes of 'barniclebill', 'brownowe', 'encinom', and the rest of the CIA shills & admirers that keep tabs on any 9/11 mentions! So, just in case their censors missed it the first time; 9/11 was an Inside Job...and we'll miss you, Paul Getty!

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» Shut up, for God's sake... Posted by: Lemuel G.

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This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» RE: Constitution Nut Posted by: waynep
» RE: Constitution Nut Posted by: EinMD
» RE: SEPPUKU??? Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: Constitution Nut Posted by: RSW58
» RE: Constitution Nut -- prove it Posted by: nearblindjames
» Seppuku, Oh Wingbat Nutcase Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: Constitution Nut Posted by: MT512
» "Go F*ck Yourselves." Posted by: photon's feather

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Leave The Name Calling To Fox News Channel
[Report this comment]
Posted by: RevinFreddy on Aug 12, 2009 4:43 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is every other article on AlterNet now titled Right-Wing or Nut-Job or something of the like. I used to think this was all the handywork of mainstream Right-Wing propagandists like fox, cnn, and msnbc, nbc, abc, cbs, etc... But not any more. Now it's all about Right-Wing this Nut Job that... What gives?

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» Hey Freddie and Uncertain Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: Hey Freddie and Uncertain Posted by: RevinFreddy
» RE: Hey Freddie and Uncertain Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
» ONLY IN YOUR MIND!! Posted by: countingdaisies

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He can't play Hardball
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Tom Degan on Aug 12, 2009 4:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did you see that guy being interviewed by Chris Matthews? It was not a pretty picture.

These people will never be able to understand the absolute need for strict, regulated gun control. They not only don't get it but - let's face facts - they're armed and dangerous.

Doesn't it seem kind of odd to you that in a lot of states, an ex-con with a violent history can own a gun but he can't cast a vote?

Is it me or is there something insanely wrong with this picture?

The GOP's Little Image Problem

Tom Degan

Goshen, NY

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» RE: He can't play Hardball Posted by: uncertain
» RE: He can't play Hardball Posted by: gathaiga
» RE: He can't play Hardball Posted by: uncertain
» RE: He can't play Hardball Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: He can't play Hardball Posted by: Quannah
» Here's a link to the video Posted by: Dolphyn
» RE: Here's a link to the video Posted by: Tom Degan
» He CAN play Hardball! Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: He CAN play Hardball! Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: He CAN play Hardball! Posted by: Quannah
» RE: He CAN play Hardball! Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: He CAN play Hardball! Posted by: Quannah
» Oh, dear... Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Oh, dear... Posted by: Quannah
» I've phoned Chris nearly everyday Posted by: foreverhope
» Max was on Hardball! Posted by: foreverhope
» Tom Degan is wrong!!! Posted by: pg
» but, pg... Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: but, pg... Posted by: photon's feather

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The '' the fringe of American society ''
[Report this comment]
Posted by: timenotonmyside on Aug 12, 2009 5:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is not really on the fringe anymore.

They are being called to arms by whatever splinter group they feel enjoined to.

This is a story because it sets a tone - it's okay to go to a town hall meeting PACKING A GUN where the POTUS will be speaking.

What do you think all the other ''fringe'' people will do now ? Bring brownies ?

Come on people.

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» RE: "the fringe of American society '' Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: "the fringe of American society '' Posted by: countingdaisies

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morgan1
[Report this comment]
Posted by: morgan1 on Aug 12, 2009 5:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Had this occurred during the Bush dictatorship, he wouldn't have gotten within 2,000 feet of the rally. Bush and his people had more protection than any other Administration in history. Legally armed or not, there are State and Federal laws about where you can carry concealed and whether he intended to shoot Obama or not is not the issue for me. Why was he carrying it THERE and what were his ultimate intentions? I saw the interview with this man and he is a hardcore survivalist, a militant extremist. The Far Right and corporations using these people for their own ends is a serious mistake. I grew up with some of these fringe groups and their loyalty is to themselves. They don't trust the govt., political parties, or corporations in any size or shape.To believe they can use these people and be safe will be the greatest shock of their lives.

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» RNC Posted by: EinMD

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For the author
[Report this comment]
Posted by: blondesprite on Aug 12, 2009 5:57 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"HE IS GUILTY!!!!!, ALONG WITH ALL OF THE OTHERS IN OUR GOVERNMENT WHO ARE ALLOWING THIS CRAP! IT IS TIME TO CLEAN HOUSE!!!!!"

I have seen the same comments on Alternet comment boards. Only difference...it was Bush and his cronies that were being judged "guilty" and everyone was talking about "cleaning house" before the 08 elections.

When they start showing up with pipe bomb material, IED components, or in trucks full of fertilizer, the two wars in the middle east might take a back seat.

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» RE: For the author Posted by: Aimleft

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ba
[Report this comment]
Posted by: mnstra on Aug 12, 2009 6:14 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Absolute moron , but people are angry and should be heard. it is about time..............

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» RE: ba Posted by: BlueSun

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2 comments from a Nebraskan
[Report this comment]
Posted by: zooeyhall on Aug 12, 2009 6:27 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have been watching with amazement the fracas over health care, and I am constantly coming back to two observations:

1) If you look at the videos, almost all these jerks raising such a ruckus are middle-aged white males. And things seem a little too "staged". I strongly suspect they are shills or fakes sent to the meetings by the local right-wing clubs.

2) Obama is waaaayy too naive about dealing with the right wing in this country. He seems to feel that he "needs to compromise" and that these people can be reasonable if just listened to, etc. etc. Trouble is: the rightists in the American political process don't believe in "compromise"--to them you don't "compromise" with the devil. And the devil being gays, liberals, Obama, free choice types, and those who don't goose step when the flag is raised. At most, compromise to them is something like a temporary cease fire in a war. To give you time to pull back and plan your next attack on the enemy.

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» A Mense? Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: A Mense? Posted by: RevinFreddy
» Screw comprimise Posted by: EinMD
» RE: Not Naive at All, but a Chess Player Posted by: photon's feather
» Presidents can't pass bills Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Presidents can't pass bills Posted by: photon's feather

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Restoretherepublic.org = Ron Paul groupies
[Report this comment]
Posted by: SickOfSophistry on Aug 12, 2009 6:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's the most obvious and immediate message from a visit to that site. The actual site ownership is hidden behind a proxy web registration, but some Googling leads me to suspect it may be run by Reason magazine's Nick Gillespie. Whatever the case, the adulation of Ron Paul is front and center. Last time I looked, Rep. Paul was a Republican, so I hope we don't have to listen to spurious claims about this being a "nonpartisan" outfit.

One other thing: The web stats for restoretherepublic.org indicate the vast majority of visitors are male and over 50 years old. Could libertarianism just be a byproduct of mid-life crisis?

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What ye sow, so shall ye reap...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: BlueSun on Aug 12, 2009 6:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is ironic that when Bush, Cheney, and their coterie of corrupt, ideological sockpuppet lawyers shredded all of the Constitutional limitations on the power of the Presidency, some warned that the Right, though cheering Bush's every move, would someday regret their expansion of Presidential power - when it was inevitably inherited by a Democrat.

That day has now arrived, and the wackaloons of the Right have only themselves to blame for creating the Imperial Presidency in the first place.

Whether carrying a gun is or is not illegal is not the issue here. The issue is whether the gun carrier is threatening the life of the President - a clear Federal felony.

The message this nutjob was giving with the messages on his sign and t-shirt was clear and unambiguous - "We reactionary right-wing conspiracy loonies have lost power in a democratic election in which a clear majority of the American People favored Barack Obama and the Democratic policies over our own failed policies of the last eight years. As ideological fanatics, we can't accept the choice of the People when it goes against us. We therefore feel entitled to overthrow our democratic government and kill any politician who doesn't subscribe to our moronic delusions."

And, if Obama's administration was really the evil socialist dictatorship the wingnuts claim, this guy really would have been grabbed, hustled into a black van, and never seen again. The same would be true of all of the astroturf 'protestors' who are disrupting our democratic town hall meetings and shouting down anybody who disagrees with them. By now, if you believe the paranoid ranting of the Right, they should all be interned for life in some FEMA detention camp.

Of course, this has not happened - not that this fact would ever penetrate the paranoid 'brains' of the lunatic 'fringe' who now comprise most of what is left of the Republican party and the formerly conservative ideology.

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» Please... Posted by: katnip

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Alternet Should Name Itself Truthfully As "Corporate PropagandaNet"
[Report this comment]
Posted by: mtcloud on Aug 12, 2009 6:53 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Top 16 ways that the Alternet feeds you Indoctrination & Propaganda vs. Education

http://www.trufax.org/general/indoc.html

1a. One-sided: Different or opposing views are either ignored, misrepresented, under-represented, or denigrated.
2a. Uses generalizations, "allness" statements, and lack of specific references and data.
3a. Card Stacking: Data carefully selected - even distorted - to present only the best or worse possible case. Language used to conceal.
4a. Misleading use of statistics.
5a. Herding: Ignores distinctions and subtle differences. Attempts to bring together superficially similar elements together. Reasons by analogy.
6a. False Dilemma (either/or): Only two solutions to the problem or two ways of viewing the issue - the "right way" (writer or speaker's way) and the "wrong way" (any other way).
7a. Appeals to Authority: Statements by selected authority figures used to clinch an argument. "Only the expert knows" approach.
8a. Appeals to consensus or bandwagon approach: "Everybody's doing it so it must be right".
9a. Appeals to emotions and emotional responses: Uses words and pictures with strong emotional connotations.
10a. Labeling: Uses labels and derogatory language to describe proponents of opposing viewpoint.
11a. Promotes attitudes of attack and/or defense with the aim of selling a position or product.
12a. Ignores assumptions and built-in biases.
13a. Language promotes lack of awareness and unconsciousness.
14a. Can lead to tunnel vision and bigotry.
15a. Referenced studies conceal conflict-of-interest funding sources..
16a. Statistics always presented to show maximum damage from problem and minimum damage from solution.

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» zzzzzzzz Posted by: EinMD
» ...zzzzzzzz Posted by: GuitarBill
» 22 things for YOU! Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: 22 points of GREAT ADVICE Posted by: mythmorph
» Oh... Posted by: katnip

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Don't like the gun nuts but I can't blame the rising gun sales thanks to
[Report this comment]
Posted by: maxpayne on Aug 12, 2009 6:55 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
pathetic leadership from the Democratic Party and their very poor handling of the health care crisis. I read HR3200 as it currently stands and so far there is no real public option in there, just more special interest bullshit and pork barreling to sort of speak. If the Democrats would quit playing go-along-get-along with the GOP and put single payer or at least some form of genuine universal health care (not to be confused with the Taxachusetts model), these silly townhall meetings wouldn't be needed and we the taxpayers could be spared. Instead, there's nothing but dumbshow town hall meetings along with another set of dumbshow rightwing motherfuckers. No wonder this country's in the toilet !

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Delusional projection...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: BlueSun on Aug 12, 2009 6:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For decades the Right has made accusation after accusation about what they believe the Democrats plan to do. For decades, these accusations have failed to materialize. Yet, as each accusation is demonstrated to be false, a half-dozen new ones sprout up to take their places.

Ironically, the very things the Right accuse the Left of planning end up being done - by the Right. It leads one to the inescapable conclusion that wingnut rants about evil Democratic plans to create a dictatorial, one-party state are in fact projections of their own desire to do precisely that.

I recall earlier this year, when the entire right-wing noise machine was parroting Michelle Malkin's accusation that left-wing demonstrators were organizing cadres to disrupt the Tea Party demonstrators and shout them down. The Right was incensed at this imagined 'fascist' plot to disrupt democracy and interfere with their right of Free Speech.

Of course, like so many other accusations, this never happened - not that any of the wingnut talking heads ever acknowledged that they were wrong.

Now, the Right is doing precisely what they were falsely accusing the Left of plotting. Well-organized groups of so-called 'protesters,' terrified by the lies and disinformation of the Right-wing ideologues in service to the health insurance industry, are being bused around to Democratic town hall meetings to engage in precisely the jack-booted thuggery that they wrongly accused the Left of planning just months ago. [BTW, notice that not only are the Left not showing up to disrupt Republican political town halls, the right-wing protesters are not even bothering to show up and hear what their own representatives have to say.

And the same media gasbags who were outraged - Outraged, I Say! - over their fantasy about Move On and ACORN plotting this same tactic, are gleefully cheerleading and even blatantly provoking precisely this anti-democratic mob behavior by their own followers.

In the late 1920s and early 1930s, when the Nazi party was just one of several competing for votes in the German parliament, a common party tactic was to send groups of their members around to political meetings of their opponents to shout down the opposition and intimidate the opposing candidates. So, it is doubly ironic that, even as the wingnuts are following the old script of the Nazis, Italian Fascists, Stalinist Communists, and other thuggish authoritarian movements, they are denouncing their opponents as Nazis and fascists.

A bit of projection, methinks. Hmmmmmmm...

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The Top 16 ways that the Alternet Could Create Real Investigate Media For Education & Common Good
[Report this comment]
Posted by: mtcloud on Aug 12, 2009 7:01 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Top 16 ways that the Alternet Could Create Real Investigate Media For Education & Common Good

http://www.trufax.org/general/indoc.html

1b. Many sided: Issues examined from many points of view; opposition fairly represented.
2b. Uses qualifiers: Statements supported with specific references and data.
3b. Balanced: Presents samples from a wide range of available data on the subject. Language used to reveal.
4b. Statistical references qualified with respect to size, duration, criteria, controls, source and subsidizer.
5b. Discrimination: Points out differences and subtle distinctions. Use analogies carefully, pointing out differences and non-applicability.
6b. Alternatives: There are many ways of solving a problem or viewing an issue.
7b. Appeals to reason: Statements by authority figures and concerned parties used to stimulate thought and discussion. "Experts seldom agree".
8b. Appeals to fact: Facts selected from broad data base. Logical, ethical, aesthetic and psycho-spiritual aspects considered.
9b. Appeals to people's capacity for thoughtful, reasoned responses: Uses emotionally neutral words and illustrations.
10b. Avoids labels and derogatory language: Addresses the argument, not the people supporting a particular viewpoint.
11b. Promotes attitudes of openness and inquiry. Aim is to discover.
12b. Explores assumptions and built-in biases.
13b. Language usage promotes greater awareness and consciousness.
14b. Can lead to breadth of vision and understanding.
15b. Referenced studies reveal conflict-of-interest funding sources.
16b. Statistics presented to show many aspects of problem, not always from a non-max/min approach.

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» 25 THINGS FOR YOU! Posted by: foreverhope

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This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» Try and take my gun. Please? Posted by: AuditTheFed
» Zing! Posted by: AuditTheFed
» RE: Zing! Posted by: jonestown kool-aid
» Jefferson never said that. Posted by: ETSpoon

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"Gun-Nut Outside Obama Townhall ....."
[Report this comment]
Posted by: xvictor on Aug 12, 2009 7:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Absence of any threat against him, there's no practical purpose or reason to display the holstered weapon unless it's to call notice to his small 'manhood'.

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» penis envy Posted by: YogiBear

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"The best defense against tyranny is a well-armed populace."
[Report this comment]
Posted by: xvictor on Aug 12, 2009 8:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A good example of this is the Taliban and Iraqi insurgents fighting against tyrannical U.S. Government forces.

As fighting men, are the Taliban and Iraqi insurgents not magnificent? They have only rifles, explosives, RPGs, and balls. Their enemies have unlimited air support, helicopters, armor, artillery, sophisticated communications, night-vision gear, good food and excellent medical care. The Taliban and Iraqi insurgents take heavy casualties, their enemies almost none. The ragheads do not even have PX privileges. Yet they have not been defeated.

A fight on even terms would last perhaps five minutes. And I doubt the gun loving, 2nd Amendment nutcases here would last even that long.

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» Guns rule. Posted by: AuditTheFed

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Grassfire a 501(c)3 ??
[Report this comment]
Posted by: reelectnoone on Aug 12, 2009 8:48 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How does one get to take a tax exemption for the purpose of politically attacking reforms by Congress?

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If he'd been at a Bush rally with a T-shirt that was anti-Bush
[Report this comment]
Posted by: harpy on Aug 12, 2009 8:54 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
he would have been arrested. Anybody that wasn't invited would have been kept in "free speech" zones.
His purpose was to instill fear, and it doesn't take much for this type of thing to get out of hand.

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"You would think Social Security was some sort of a government program
[Report this comment]
Posted by: bitsfick on Aug 12, 2009 9:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
GWB. "Keep you government socialist hands off my medicare" some uninformed asshole at a town meeting.

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Why must they ruin...
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Posted by: constitution, what constitution on Aug 12, 2009 9:11 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... perfectly good quotes and perfectly good images by associating them with their insane "cause?"

Regardless of your thoughts towards these people, you have to give the masterminds of the "cause" their credit because they're doing a damn fine job of manipulating media and keeping their message in the spotlight.

Insanity sells, and the more ignorant people see the message the more they're inclined to join. Standard groupthink, executed well.

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Some thoughts
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Posted by: willymack on Aug 12, 2009 9:31 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The guy at the rally with a gun on his hip, legal or otherwise and his sign is a NUT.
He's an ignorant nut, because he's pissed about something that, if enacted, will almost certainly benefit HIM, and something he won't hesitate to take advantage of if the need arises.
It's a mystery to me how someone can take factual information and get it ass-backwards anyway, unless his mind is disordered or he has a bad case of STUPID. Maybe it's a virus or something.

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Let's Dial This Down a Notch, Shall We?
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Posted by: On the Border on Aug 12, 2009 10:23 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For openers, I'll say this guy may well be a "gun nut." However, the argument that anybody wearing a pistol at this-or-that event MUST be a gun nut is patently absurd. I'm a full-on liberal with no party affiliation. I own a single firearm and I carry it with me nearly all the time, sometimes concealed (yes I've got a permit) and sometimes open. I'm no gun nut.

To my knowledge, the man made no threats to anyone. He's also guaranteed the right, whether we like it or not, to carry that sign and wear that tee shirt. I will tell you with 100% certainty that all law enforcement personnel in the area were aware of his weapon and watched him a bit more closely than other participants, as well they should. But the fact remains that he was well within the law and his rights.

As I would be, were I to show up at a rally with a "Yes We Can" sign and a .45 on my hip.

As I said, he may well be a "gun nut," or he may not. But knee-jerk reactions like the opening of this article (and a good percentage of the comments) look like little more than a fear response to me. And very little gets done when your actions are based on overgeneralizations and fear.

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Rico
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Posted by: EJW on Aug 12, 2009 10:24 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can't these GOP groups promoting this stupidity, hate and violence be prosecuted under "organized crime" law?

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I may be older
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Posted by: badkitty on Aug 12, 2009 10:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I may be older than most of the people commenting here, but I was a teenager when Kennedy was assassinated, and an adult when Reagan was shot (these are presidents, kiddies, I'm not talking about King or RFK). You can be close or far away and shoot a president, and I am really surprised that the church, the police, the FBI, the Secret Service, the other people standing with this man, didn't make him take his gun and go away. I can't imagine why he thought he needed a gun at this rally, since no one else seemed to need one. New Hampshire should change its laws--this guy wasn't on a hunting trip (not with that gun and in that area). And can someone identify the church and its pastor? It seems to me that this is akin to crying "fire!" in a crowded theater.

I don't want to see another president assassinated, and I don't think the far right will like what might happen to them and gun laws afterward, either. I don't think this was a free speech or gun ownership issue, this was a threat. Next time, he can bring a sign saying he is going to shoot the president, instead of a gun, and see how far he gets.

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» RE: I may be older Posted by: YogiBear

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Stupid
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Posted by: rafaeltoral on Aug 12, 2009 10:49 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Get a life. The guy was on private property exercising his second amendment rights.

Next time I see someone holding a protest sign I'm going to call him or her a free speech nut.

I think at this point I hate so called liberals as much as so called conservatives. Different sides of the same small minded coin.

Any people left out there who can think for themselves? I guess safety in numbers is the herd mentality.

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» Cliche-laden Bullshit Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: Stupid Posted by: desidid
» RE: Stupid Posted by: Malamute

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MY OLD MAN was an anti-gun nut
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Posted by: billwald on Aug 12, 2009 11:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After listening to his BS for 20 years I told him, "Put a sign in front of your house, 'GUN-FREE HOUSE." He replied, "You think I'm crazy?" and never again mentioned guns.

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Explain to a bewildered foreigner........ please
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Posted by: hilaryuk on Aug 12, 2009 11:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As I understand it, America is 'in danger' of getting health reform that will still be predicated on what the corporate players want, the single payer option being increasingly less likely. Such a non citizen-centred fudge would be howled out of the stadium in most West European countries, regardless of the political complexion of their governments. But great chunks of your media and polity are screaming socialism and manufacturing misrepresentations of what seems a very modest proposal. I am confused.

Last year an Iraqi was locked up, without any plea for mercy from America ,for the crime of throwing a shoe - one single non-explosive shoe - at your President. Your current President has received many death threats, but the state authorities think it is fine for an openly armed man brandishing a threat to stand around waiting for him. I am even more confused.

A Christian Church - i.e. a Church nominally espousing the Gospel of Love as preached by Jesus - allows this man whose heart is obviously filled with hate and violence to use its grounds to make the explicit threat. I am not just confused now, I am appalled.

I wonder if it occurred to anyone that this blatant act of hatred could have been designed to take the attention of those guarding your President away from a hidden but serious threat?

I wonder if the answer to the increasing irrationality of a sizeable section of your population would be the banning of your churches - it might give their leaders time to read the Gospels and discover how far they have travelled from the message therein. Or perhaps you could ask Rupert Murdoch exactly why he wants to accelerate, aid and abet the process of the USA's self destruction. It seems to me - and I am only a distant observer - that the day those on the other side of the argument from the nutters start to adopt the enemy's intemperate, violent, irrational, fact-oblivious style and methods will be be the day America signs its own suicide note.

Of course, I may just have an over literal mind and am merely misreading what is happening - cultural misunderstanding or something. But I sincerely do not understand.

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Perhaps a shooting is what is needed?
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Posted by: ETSpoon on Aug 12, 2009 12:01 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hate to say it...no, really I don't...but perhaps a shooting incident by one of these cranked-up Astroturf, warriors of the rabid-dog, reactionary right is what is needed to shock their handmaidens in the mainstream media that they're corporate masters are losing their grip on the unwashed.

Thus far, the coordinators in the M$M has connived with their corporate masters to rein-in and control the excesses of the foot-soldiery from otherwise despised working class.

But once the lily-livered FauxNews on-scene reporters are exposed to the raw hatred that their studio-bound colleagues have helped to generate, maybe they will have an epiphany?

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according to what this man said on 'Hardball' last night
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Posted by: left_witch on Aug 12, 2009 12:08 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
he attended the town hall meeting to discuss the 2nd amendment.

immediately i wondered why he would attend a town hall meeting that was on the topic of health care reform if he wanted to discuss the 2nd amendment?

i will wager my next paycheck that he was paid to show up there with his weapon, just to incite fear and stir up the crowd and to draw attention to himself with the media.

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how do/can Republicans blame others for their creations?
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Posted by: Bearzerker on Aug 12, 2009 12:30 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
..."brought to you by restoretherepublic.org."
Visit the site of Restore the Republic, and you will find a wealth of information on some of the far right's favorite conspiracy theories: the Bilderberg conspiracy, the Tri-Lateral Commission, the New World Order and "FEMA internment camps." The site is a draw for anti-government gun enthusiasts and survivalists...

and then fire up the monsters predominatly in their court, and blame all their planning and actions on everyone but those responsible for this violence, and just cuts loose their imbeciles in such a violent and triggerhappy way?

How is it that they can get away with this type of behavior and no one takes notice that they are the reasons for their paranoia!

as the song goes...Paranoia could destroy yaaaaa...

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"For What It's Worth” by the Buffalo Springfield!
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Posted by: foreverhope on Aug 12, 2009 12:55 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Somewhat odd to me. This a fav from my youth was written to encourage our gov't to do the right thing. We got'er done!

Now I offer it as an Anthem to protect our Town Hall meetings from terrorism.

There's something happening here
What it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware

I think it's time we stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind

I think it's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

What a field-day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly say, hooray for our side

It's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away

We better stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, now, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

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deb
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Posted by: debmcd on Aug 12, 2009 1:00 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is just amazing. During the Bush years protesting wasn't tolerated. Carrying a loaded gun to a presidential event? You couldn't even wear a tee shirt the right didn't like without getting arrested. These boneheads seem to forget how restrictive things were during those years. We have more rights and less taxes now but these guys don't want anyone to remember that because that could cause them to lose some of there followers. No followers means no stupid, racial, childish sideshows which means no media coverage. That's all they are doing this for. To get their ugly red mugs in front of a camera. They won't discuss because that's not what they were hired to do. Just be outraged. But don't ask them what they are outraged about, they couldn't tell you. It wasn't in their approved talking points.

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» RE: deb Posted by: RevinFreddy
» RE: deb Posted by: jackyD

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BANTERING & JOKING ABOUT GUNS AT TOWN HALL MEETINGS IS A THREAT AGAINST OUR COUNTRY!
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Posted by: foreverhope on Aug 12, 2009 1:37 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
VERY CAPABLE OF VIOLENCE! YOU JACK OFF THINKING ABOUT WAYS TO EXPLODE OUR COUNTRY INTO VIOLENCE ACTS OF INTIMIDATION! IT IS YOUR BREAD AND BUTTER! IT IS WHY YOU GET OUT OF BED EVERY DAY!

YOU WILL NOT NOT NOT BE TOLERATED HERE!!!!!

YOU ARE NOT NOT NOT FUCKING WELCOME HERE YOU MISERABLE TOWN.HALL.COMERS MAGGOT RON PAUL LOVING PATHETIC CREATURES WITHOUT A SOUL. NOT ONE SINGLE SOUL AMONG YOU!

GO BACK TO YOUR HOLE! LICK YOUR WOUNDS AS I KNOW YOU ARE SERIOUSLY WOUNDED NOW! WE KNOW YOU!

BLEEDING PATHETIC BASTARDS! BURN BURN BURN IN TARTARUS!

ANY BANTER ABOUT TAKING GUNS TO OUR TOWN HALL MEETINGS IS A THREAT AGAINST OUR COUNTRY! OUR PRESIDENT AND OUR PEOPLE!

GO FONDLE YOUR BLOODY FUCKING GUNS AND MASTURBATE WHILE YOU CHATTER AT ONE ANOTHER ABOUT HOW STUPID WE ARE AND HOW VERY SMART YOU ARE!

WE DON'T BELIEVE YOU! WE'VE GOT YOU! DON'T DON'T DON'T YOU GET THAT!

WE WILL PROTECT OUR DISCUSSIONS AND ALTERNET FROM YOU FUCKING MISERABLE SOB MAGGOTS!

BE GONE! YOU ARE ALL SPAWNS OF THE DEVIL DOING HIS WORK!

GOOD WILL WIN OVER EVIL!

SAY YOUR PRAYERS MAGGOTS! PRAY HARD FOR YOUR SOULS! PERHAPS IT WILL KEEP YOU FROM THE VERY DEEPEST DEPTHS OF TARTARUS!

WE WILL NOT NOT NOT ALLOW YOU TO DISRESPECT OUR PRESIDENT NOR MAKE LIGHT JOKES OR BANTER ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING TO OUR COUNTRY.

GO FUCK YOURSELVES! YOU ARE A CURSE CURSE CURSE ON MY COUNTRY!

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Stop Obamacare renamed Stop Obama
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Posted by: desidid on Aug 12, 2009 1:39 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just saw on MSNBC that militias are on the rise, the secret service has fewer resources, including that they don't always do metal detection at all of Obama's appearances. And that the threats to Obama are up 400% to those against Bush due to racism. I have said for years that we are headed towards a race war, and I believe that an attempt by one of these groups against Obama will be the spark that ignites it.

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Again
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Posted by: Robba29 on Aug 12, 2009 2:09 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When is the left going to realize that sit ins and signs are not going to help. We need to do the same thing the right is doing, and be prepared. They will come for us--and what are we going to do? Hold up a flower? We need a left militancy reminiscent of the late 1800's union riots! It is time!

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» Exactly Right Posted by: On the Border

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David Scott On Chris Matthew Right Now
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Posted by: desidid on Aug 12, 2009 2:10 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Read a letter that called for Obama's death and that called him a n**ger. I looked for a meeting in my neck of the woods, but have not seen any. I live in a Republican district, I want to go and not disrupt, but to question. If I'm faced with one of these klansmen they will see that the days of Black fear are long gone. The first to call me n**ger to my face will get a down home beat down and I'm 54 years old.

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Μολὼν λαβέ
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Posted by: login@bugmenot.com on Aug 12, 2009 3:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Μολὼν λαβέ

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FEAR! FEAR! FEAR! FEAR! FEAR! FEAR! FEAR!
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Posted by: foreverhope on Aug 12, 2009 3:27 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"We have nothing to fear but fear itself. Nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat and advance." ~ Franklin Roosevelt

linked text

Fear of a loss of individual liberty in response to the war on terror.
Fear that the paranoia over terrorism will erode everything this country was founded on.
Fear that liberals haven't degraded the education system enough so most people still know that Abraham Lincoln and FDR suspended many liberties to deal with similar crises

Fear that Bu$h is to blame for everything
Fear that Bu$h isn't to blame for everything
Fear that if you continue to blame everything on Bu$h, you won't actually figure out who really is to blame for your problems
Fear that your spelling of Bu$h reflects your intellectual prowess, in a nutshell.
And for that, you still blame Bu$h
And your parent$

Fear of Walmart
Fear of people who shop at Walmart
Fear that you might actually save money if you shopped at Walmart
Fear that Walmart has done more to help the poor than any social program ever created by our government.

Fear of all forms of energy except for the ones that don't work
Fear that people will realize the easiest way to cut back on greenhouse gases is to convert to nuclear energy
Fear that your activism will be exposed as a front for your narcissism
Fear that low taxes actually do create prosperous societies
Fear that people will find out what a hypocrite you are because you call for higher taxes while using tax shelters

Fear of mean people
Fear of judgmental people
Fear of appearing narrow-minded
Fear of intolerance
Fear that with your tirades against SUVs, Wal-Mart, meat, cigarettes, guns, whisky, and organized religion, you are the judgmental, intolerant one.

Fear that your children won't carry on your failed politics as religion/lifestyle

fear of being judged in the afterlife
fear of being judged in this life
fear of that dark facial freckle
Fear that your new age health practices won't be able to save you from that dark facial freckle

Fear that the exposure that you're being for the 'common man' is a joke considering you go to the only clubs and bars roped off to keep those people out.

Fear that when they take away your anger there will be nothing left.

Fear of free speech when it mocks your beliefs.
Fear of free speech when it speaks back to you.
Fear of free speech when it comes from Christians.
Fear of free speech when it comes from me.
Fear that your definition of free speech - that only you get to be heard-- won't fly with us Wal-mart shoppers.

Fear of black Republicans
Fear that one day blacks will figure out you're the racist for always treating them like helpless victims instead of responsible individuals.

Fear that maybe shame is a good thing

Fear of "crackpot Christians"
Fear that these fears do not measure up to the more legitimate fear of crackpot Islamists who blow you up in order to sleep with 72 virgins who are most likely lousy in bed anyway.

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Μολὼν λαβέ
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Posted by: login@bugmenot.com on Aug 12, 2009 3:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Μολὼν λαβέ

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» RE: κοπριά τεν ίππος Posted by: SickOfSophistry

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The GOP doesn't need any help to "break" Obama.
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Posted by: Jill 2 on Aug 12, 2009 4:29 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All the "gun nuts" and right wing neanderthals in the world is just 'frosting on the cake' in the Republican party's efforts to depose Obama. Obama doesn't really need their help, as he is doing too good a job of accomplishing his self-destruction all by himself.

The Neo-fascist elite of the Democratic party has turned Obama into a puppet in a bad stage play; he has become an unrepentant war monger – and with the scabrous bank bailout–an enabler of America's wealthiest. This betrayal, all on the taxpayer dime. Selling out shamelessly to "Big Pharma," has amounted to an evisceration of any real health care reform. The decision to totally disregard the left and the anti-war wing of the Democratic party, (those who got him elected to begin with), may make him a one term President. The only thing that can save the Neo-fascist Democrats, is if their constituency remains ignorant enough to support a party which deserves nothing more than contempt and abandonment. Even given the wretched alternative, re-electing Obama would be unconscionable; either way, there will be fascism. At least the right wing psychos are out on the streets, displaying anger, however ignorant and misguided as it may be. Where are the Progressives? They should be out trying to depose Obama as well.–(Jill Bains)

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I'm astonished...
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Posted by: Seranvali on Aug 12, 2009 4:34 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that this person was able to get so close to your President carrying a. a placard that was either a direct threat to his safety (I'm Australian and even I know what "watering the tree" means in this context)or an incitement to violence and b. a gun!

He had a declared intent and the means to do it. Why is this covered under the "freedom of speech" laws? It looks like a direct threat, with the means to back it up.

Somebody please explain this to me because I just don't understand it.

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» RE: I'm astonished... Posted by: On the Border
» RE: I'm astonished... Posted by: Quannah
» RE: I'm astonished... Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: I'm astonished... Posted by: On the Border
» RE: I'm astonished... Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: I'm astonished... Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: I'm astonished... Posted by: Quannah
» RE: I'm astonished... Posted by: Seranvali
» You Aussies have really changed. Posted by: countingdaisies

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Fox News & The Republican Party are calling for assassination
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Posted by: Bob Horn on Aug 12, 2009 5:07 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Secret Service is not doing its job. The RNC and Fox News are trying to get the morons who listen to them to kill our president and they have not been arrested yet. The Republican Party is nothing but a criminal organization now. There is a civil war going on and the right wing is using violence. The Democratic Party is asking if the Republicans will please be nice. Stonger action by progressives seems slow to develope.

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Who was watching the man with the gun
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Posted by: globalize*peace on Aug 12, 2009 6:03 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It would be hard to believe a sharpshooter didn't have his melon in their scope. If you are going to carry a piece better not slip or trip and seem threatening.

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RE: Faux News
[Report this comment]
Posted by: MEL810 on Aug 12, 2009 6:06 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have been told by a person that works at Fox Broadcasting that Fox is near bankruptcy and may go under late this year or early next year, next Spring at the latest.
Good riddance to bad trash!
Although I do not want my friend to his job and I do like a couple of Fox shows ("House", for example)I hope Fox bites the dust. I hope my friend and the good shows on Fox find new gigs fast.

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» RE: Faux News Posted by: sunlakedude
» No such thing as good shows on TV. Posted by: countingdaisies

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Anybody who thinks that
[Report this comment]
Posted by: jackyD on Aug 12, 2009 8:29 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
gun guy, despite being within his legal rights, wouldn't have been hog-tied and carted off had he been at a Bush town hall meeting is likely naive or stupid and probably both. I attended my Congressman's townhall meeting last night. It was held outside. What I observed is that if you were old or a lone woman with a pro-reform sign then you were subject to crowding and/or verbal harassment, not to mention leering smiles. All by white men with opposing signs. Not once did I see any of these same men pull this crap on healthy looking men with pro signs. Gun guy would be nothing without his gun. Just another joe blow and too insecure too handle that. And for the record I own a shotgun and a 22 and am not against the second amendment.

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The diversion tactics are working well
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Posted by: throck on Aug 12, 2009 9:14 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Aren't they. Just give up a little more freedom and the government will "help" you some more.

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Live free or die nut
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Posted by: C. Rich on Aug 13, 2009 7:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This gunman is no hero. These guys are!

http://americaspeaksink.com/?s=hero+for+sale

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PatriotG Administrator Of restoretherepublic.org
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Posted by: PatriotG on Aug 13, 2009 6:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have emailed alter net, to correct one very important piece of misinformation in this article.

It was stated and I quote:

At the bottom of Kostric's sign, viewers were informed that the message was "brought to you by restoretherepublic.org."

This is not true.

I have viewed the video of Mr. Kostric, and it clearly shows restoretherepublic.com.

Now. normally I wouldn't have a problem with this, it is trivial in nature however, since this article paints MR. Kostric out to be a would be assassin, and since in addition to posting out our link, the author, who appears to not be very observant, or does not read, was very quick to paint our site as a conspiracy website.

If the author does decide at some point to actually read, and pay attention, perhaps she should first read The U.S. Constitution where it clearly states that to keep and bear arms, is not only a mandate of citizenship, but, it is also a necessity to maintaining a free state.

Our founding fathers were clear on this essential duty of the people to control they're government.

As stated by our first president, and endorsed by the author of the declaration of Independence, the right to keep and bear arms is the bedrock of freedom upon which this republic rests.

RTR.org
Online since 2004...........not 2007 Adele

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WHY IS THE LEFT MUSSING ITS DRAWERS ABOUT THIS?
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Posted by: alicelillie on Aug 13, 2009 6:45 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What in the *world* are you scared of anyway?

We opponents of Obama (the most astute of whom opposed Bush too because the policies are really the same when you peel off outward rhetoric) are expressing opinions in much the same way the left was against Bush.

I am a Libertarian, and I support Ron Paul's Campaign for Liberty. I am against the war and for drug legalization. I marched in New York during the 2004 GOP convention right along side of you.

As someone who is a staunch individualist, I agree with Paul about a free market and medical care. In case you don't understand what a "free market" is, and you don't if you think we had one under Bush (far from it!!!) read this good little article "What is this 'Free Market' We Keep Hearing About?" at http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=161. It won't bite. Really.

Good old Aaron Russo. Besides running for governor of my state (NV) he also made an unsuccessful run for the Libertarian nomination for President in 2004, losing out to Michael Badnarik, who also marched in NYC. I saw Aaron for the last time at the premiere of his flick.

Did you *see* the flick? You should.

As for the "right wing nuts" who protest outside the town halls, I personally have not been to any but I have read articles that claim the violence goes both ways. The violence is wrong but we have every right to express our views.

And, the man who carried a gun was exercising a *right* that is guaranteed by the Constitution. He was not even in violation of any law, and some of these laws are hairsplitting and nit-picking, just as drug laws are. Responsibility? Of *course* you have to take responsibility.

Why not stand back and *think* a little bit? I always told the pro-Bush crowd, why muss your drawers if someone has the wrong kind of cigarette in their pocket? If they are not harming anyone else, what's the big deal? By the same token, if someone is carrying a piece of metal and is not hurting anyone, why do you have your tail in such a king-sized knot?

This is supposed to be a free country. I am not old enough to remember when it actually was. But we can make it so again if we could just let people live their lives and do as they wish with themselves and their belongings as long as they do not infringe on anyone else's rights.

See my blog at http://www.alicelillieandher.blogspot.com

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WHAT?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: jrmart on Aug 13, 2009 8:39 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am 75 years old. I was raised in California and voted for Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan every time they ran for office. I have lived through one war and several police actions.
I have lived through the Watts Riots, Joseph Mcarthy, the Chicago Convention, The Bobby Kennedy assasination (i was in the audience) The MLK murder and all the other civil rights struggles.
I have seen the failure of Reagonomics, and the rise of Religous Intolerance and the growth of hatred that seems to be growing exponentially. I am almost happy that my life is nearing its end. This country I inhabit is not the America I was raised to believe existed. I realize now that there never was such a place. Racism, homophobia and intolerance has always been there, hidden by our textbooks that revised our history and hid the atrocities our very founding fathers embraced. The systematic annihilation of natives through our Manifest Destiny policies, and the wars fought not to free people but to gain power, land and wealth. All disguised.
So I have to ask ONE QUESTION, JUST ONE. WHY WOULD SOMEONE COME TO A PEACEFULL TOWN MEETING AND BRING A LOADED GUN WITH HIM??? WHY? TO WHAT PURPOSE? HOW LONG WILL IT BE BEFORE A "DEFENDER OF THE AMERICAN WAY" DRAW DOWN ON OUR PRESIDENT? sad. so very sad.

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» RE: WHAT? Posted by: Seranvali

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GRASSFIRE 501c/ DONATE NOW
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Frugalvoter on Aug 14, 2009 8:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You can use the tax deduction and it is for a good cause

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The Libertarian Paradox
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Posted by: desidid on Aug 14, 2009 12:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many people who comment on Alternet state they are followers of Ron Paul and libertarian. Apparently libertarian no longer means free will. If we look back to a recent event, the arrest of Professor Gates and follow some of the posts regarding his arrest, we will find that many so-called libertarians felt Sgt. Crowley was well within his rights to arrest Gates. The reason given was that Gates wasn't sufficiently respectful of someone swore to uphold the law.


I can't say for sure, but I have yet to see a post by these people calling for the arrest of those persons at town hall meetings (a public forum) being arrested for not showing sufficient respect for those charged with writing the laws.

The only differences between Gates and these libertarian Americans at town hall meetings are this; Gates was in his home and was well within his rights to argue with the cop, these town hall libertarians are in a public place arguing with House and Senate members who make laws, Gates is Black, town hall dissenters White.

So from my vantage point libertarian has come to mean white entitlement. You see, those of you who have advocated against Gates rights but, for the town hall hooligans the veil has been lifted. You don't believe in the right of the Black individual in their home when confronted with White authority, but you damn sure believe in the right of the White individual to show their ass in public, especially if the White authority is seen as spreading the word for the Black head of state.

Time to take your hoods off and show your true selves. The only people you are fooling in proclaiming an unbiased libertarian stance is yourselves.

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lets keep our eye on the prize
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Posted by: cori on Aug 16, 2009 6:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A few policy questions for our new president.

We need a serious march on washington showing our support for a single payer system and blow those racist fear mongering haters out of the water.
Clooney is a self-described political liberal. Speaking about the Iraq war: "You can't beat your enemy anymore through wars; instead you create an entire generation of people seeking revenge. What if they invaded us and decided to kill a million people for our resources spending trillions of tax dollars to do it INSTEAD OF GIVING their people HEALTH CARE?

Regarding health care: If we can give aid to other nations, why not give aid to our nation in the form of free mobile hospitalS? We are all victims of economic terrorism now. We have become an abused and neglected people.

As we pay for 200 thousand employees for homeland security, while special interests are puttiing our population and economy at risk and being held hostage by big Pharma and health insurance companies as we are supporting the biggest prison system on the planet, while ignoring the ten's of millions of homeless that are exploding at a rapid rate, with no safety nets and support systems while we pay for a huge militiary industrial complex that is ruled by a cult of evangelicals who believe in end times and are handing out bibles as they are killing people, during a depression as revenues are shrinking. Wow are we being screwed! And by the way when are we going to catch Bin BS Ladin? Waging endless war for profit is bringing this nation and our poulation DOWN, And by the way, what happened to helping the people of New Orleans? You know there's too much Rahm and too much corruption and we are all paying dearly. Do you care? Also us Baby Boomers, Americas biggest popullation, have been paying into Social Security, medicare and medicade all our working lives. Where did all the money go?

When are you going to cut those huge tax cuts for the rich and make the corporations pay for their own private armies and give our suffering people free affordable health care like 65 other nations?

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SECRET SERVICE WANT THE PRESIDENT TO GET HURT OR KILL
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Posted by: master09 on Aug 18, 2009 6:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The secret service is dragging their feet waiting for the president to get hurt ; on the Racheal maddox show she interviewed an ex- secret service man by the name of Joseph Petro who said the secret service can set primeters around the president in any manner they wish, so if these clowns want carry their weapons then let them do it 2 miles away plain and simple.Stop playing games with these clowns they did'nt allow this craps when GWB was president, so nip this shit in the bud before the president gets hurt.

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gun safety
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Posted by: 357 on Aug 18, 2009 12:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just because a person has the right to carry a gun doesn't mean they know how to use it. Several years ago a gal carried her gun into a local Alaskan bar, sat down and the gun went off shooting her in her leg.wise up people, learn how to handle your guns, take a class, practice the proper way to handle them.

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DVD to Gphone Converter
[Report this comment]
Posted by: boay on Aug 24, 2009 6:39 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
DVD to Gphone Converter

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Alternet Comments:

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I HOPE THE SECRET SERVICE KEEEPS TRACK OF THIS GUY
[Report this comment]
Posted by: orwellturns on Aug 12, 2009 1:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is it that only liberals are targeted by people like this? Irony is totally lost on these people, the only good things most have going in their lives are programs that liberals have fought for and gotten done.
The media doesn't help either. I went to a health care event today and although there were a couple of hundred people cheering and chanting in support of health care reform, ABC news only mentioned that the Congressman had gotten "jeered". The "jeers" were only from one loonie toon carrying a picture of President Obama with a Hitler mustache that the rest of us bood him for. I was standing next to the reporter for most of that time and I know he heard and saw what I saw The cheers in support were deafening compared to the jeers. .
NBC focused on the picture and the decenter.

We must stand strong and continue to support public option health care or we will not see this again for decades.

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» Nah Posted by: EinMD
» RE: Nah Posted by: astralman
» RE: Nah Posted by: Bozwell

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Yawn.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: uncertain on Aug 12, 2009 1:48 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, here's a man, legally carrying a registered firearm on private property - with the property owners' permission.

What a non-story.

Anybody with any amount of common sense knows that the Secret Service isn't going to allow that man within a mile of the President while he's carrying a gun.

Who cares?

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» RE: Yawning is illegal now. Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Yawning is illegal now. Posted by: Quannah
» BWAAH hAhHAHAhah..... Posted by: lupuslefou
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: mchllecat
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: EJLima
» RE: Yawn, but consider this. Posted by: redbridge
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: crashgrab
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: Morell
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: madcat007
» RE: Yawn. Posted by: Malamute

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What's to comment on? Bad article!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: fsuthai on Aug 12, 2009 1:48 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author must have been on a tight deadline. What happened to the "armed & dangerous" protester? Was he thrown to the ground, handcuffed, and lead away by elements of the Homeland Gestapo for chargeless & indeterminate incarceration like the peaceful protesters at the two farcical national nominating conventions? Strange, abrupt ending. Nobody doing any final editing at Alternet?

And, while speaking of Alternet's foibles, how could you ban "pfgetty" from making any further comments...whether about the lack of additional investigation over the lies, cover-up, and lingering questions & inconveniences regarding the 9/11 betrayals, or Alternet's failure to pursue any facet of this obvious Inside Job? I felt Dr. Getty was always polite and his queries and comments respectful, to the point, and crucial to the healing of America's left/right antagonism and our lack of any respect throughout the rest of the world. Now I will probably be besieged by negative comments from the likes of 'barniclebill', 'brownowe', 'encinom', and the rest of the CIA shills & admirers that keep tabs on any 9/11 mentions! So, just in case their censors missed it the first time; 9/11 was an Inside Job...and we'll miss you, Paul Getty!

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» Shut up, for God's sake... Posted by: Lemuel G.

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This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» RE: Constitution Nut Posted by: waynep
» RE: Constitution Nut Posted by: EinMD
» RE: SEPPUKU??? Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: Constitution Nut Posted by: RSW58
» RE: Constitution Nut -- prove it Posted by: nearblindjames
» Seppuku, Oh Wingbat Nutcase Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: Constitution Nut Posted by: MT512
» "Go F*ck Yourselves." Posted by: photon's feather

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Leave The Name Calling To Fox News Channel
[Report this comment]
Posted by: RevinFreddy on Aug 12, 2009 4:43 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is every other article on AlterNet now titled Right-Wing or Nut-Job or something of the like. I used to think this was all the handywork of mainstream Right-Wing propagandists like fox, cnn, and msnbc, nbc, abc, cbs, etc... But not any more. Now it's all about Right-Wing this Nut Job that... What gives?

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» Hey Freddie and Uncertain Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: Hey Freddie and Uncertain Posted by: RevinFreddy
» RE: Hey Freddie and Uncertain Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
» ONLY IN YOUR MIND!! Posted by: countingdaisies

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He can't play Hardball
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Tom Degan on Aug 12, 2009 4:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did you see that guy being interviewed by Chris Matthews? It was not a pretty picture.

These people will never be able to understand the absolute need for strict, regulated gun control. They not only don't get it but - let's face facts - they're armed and dangerous.

Doesn't it seem kind of odd to you that in a lot of states, an ex-con with a violent history can own a gun but he can't cast a vote?

Is it me or is there something insanely wrong with this picture?

The GOP's Little Image Problem

Tom Degan

Goshen, NY

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» RE: He can't play Hardball Posted by: uncertain
» RE: He can't play Hardball Posted by: gathaiga
» RE: He can't play Hardball Posted by: uncertain
» RE: He can't play Hardball Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: He can't play Hardball Posted by: Quannah
» Here's a link to the video Posted by: Dolphyn
» RE: Here's a link to the video Posted by: Tom Degan
» He CAN play Hardball! Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: He CAN play Hardball! Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: He CAN play Hardball! Posted by: Quannah
» RE: He CAN play Hardball! Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: He CAN play Hardball! Posted by: Quannah
» Oh, dear... Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Oh, dear... Posted by: Quannah
» I've phoned Chris nearly everyday Posted by: foreverhope
» Max was on Hardball! Posted by: foreverhope
» Tom Degan is wrong!!! Posted by: pg
» but, pg... Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: but, pg... Posted by: photon's feather

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The '' the fringe of American society ''
[Report this comment]
Posted by: timenotonmyside on Aug 12, 2009 5:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is not really on the fringe anymore.

They are being called to arms by whatever splinter group they feel enjoined to.

This is a story because it sets a tone - it's okay to go to a town hall meeting PACKING A GUN where the POTUS will be speaking.

What do you think all the other ''fringe'' people will do now ? Bring brownies ?

Come on people.

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» RE: "the fringe of American society '' Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: "the fringe of American society '' Posted by: countingdaisies

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morgan1
[Report this comment]
Posted by: morgan1 on Aug 12, 2009 5:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Had this occurred during the Bush dictatorship, he wouldn't have gotten within 2,000 feet of the rally. Bush and his people had more protection than any other Administration in history. Legally armed or not, there are State and Federal laws about where you can carry concealed and whether he intended to shoot Obama or not is not the issue for me. Why was he carrying it THERE and what were his ultimate intentions? I saw the interview with this man and he is a hardcore survivalist, a militant extremist. The Far Right and corporations using these people for their own ends is a serious mistake. I grew up with some of these fringe groups and their loyalty is to themselves. They don't trust the govt., political parties, or corporations in any size or shape.To believe they can use these people and be safe will be the greatest shock of their lives.

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» RNC Posted by: EinMD

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For the author
[Report this comment]
Posted by: blondesprite on Aug 12, 2009 5:57 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"HE IS GUILTY!!!!!, ALONG WITH ALL OF THE OTHERS IN OUR GOVERNMENT WHO ARE ALLOWING THIS CRAP! IT IS TIME TO CLEAN HOUSE!!!!!"

I have seen the same comments on Alternet comment boards. Only difference...it was Bush and his cronies that were being judged "guilty" and everyone was talking about "cleaning house" before the 08 elections.

When they start showing up with pipe bomb material, IED components, or in trucks full of fertilizer, the two wars in the middle east might take a back seat.

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» RE: For the author Posted by: Aimleft

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ba
[Report this comment]
Posted by: mnstra on Aug 12, 2009 6:14 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Absolute moron , but people are angry and should be heard. it is about time..............

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» RE: ba Posted by: BlueSun

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2 comments from a Nebraskan
[Report this comment]
Posted by: zooeyhall on Aug 12, 2009 6:27 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have been watching with amazement the fracas over health care, and I am constantly coming back to two observations:

1) If you look at the videos, almost all these jerks raising such a ruckus are middle-aged white males. And things seem a little too "staged". I strongly suspect they are shills or fakes sent to the meetings by the local right-wing clubs.

2) Obama is waaaayy too naive about dealing with the right wing in this country. He seems to feel that he "needs to compromise" and that these people can be reasonable if just listened to, etc. etc. Trouble is: the rightists in the American political process don't believe in "compromise"--to them you don't "compromise" with the devil. And the devil being gays, liberals, Obama, free choice types, and those who don't goose step when the flag is raised. At most, compromise to them is something like a temporary cease fire in a war. To give you time to pull back and plan your next attack on the enemy.

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» A Mense? Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: A Mense? Posted by: RevinFreddy
» Screw comprimise Posted by: EinMD
» RE: Not Naive at All, but a Chess Player Posted by: photon's feather
» Presidents can't pass bills Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Presidents can't pass bills Posted by: photon's feather

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Restoretherepublic.org = Ron Paul groupies
[Report this comment]
Posted by: SickOfSophistry on Aug 12, 2009 6:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's the most obvious and immediate message from a visit to that site. The actual site ownership is hidden behind a proxy web registration, but some Googling leads me to suspect it may be run by Reason magazine's Nick Gillespie. Whatever the case, the adulation of Ron Paul is front and center. Last time I looked, Rep. Paul was a Republican, so I hope we don't have to listen to spurious claims about this being a "nonpartisan" outfit.

One other thing: The web stats for restoretherepublic.org indicate the vast majority of visitors are male and over 50 years old. Could libertarianism just be a byproduct of mid-life crisis?

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What ye sow, so shall ye reap...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: BlueSun on Aug 12, 2009 6:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is ironic that when Bush, Cheney, and their coterie of corrupt, ideological sockpuppet lawyers shredded all of the Constitutional limitations on the power of the Presidency, some warned that the Right, though cheering Bush's every move, would someday regret their expansion of Presidential power - when it was inevitably inherited by a Democrat.

That day has now arrived, and the wackaloons of the Right have only themselves to blame for creating the Imperial Presidency in the first place.

Whether carrying a gun is or is not illegal is not the issue here. The issue is whether the gun carrier is threatening the life of the President - a clear Federal felony.

The message this nutjob was giving with the messages on his sign and t-shirt was clear and unambiguous - "We reactionary right-wing conspiracy loonies have lost power in a democratic election in which a clear majority of the American People favored Barack Obama and the Democratic policies over our own failed policies of the last eight years. As ideological fanatics, we can't accept the choice of the People when it goes against us. We therefore feel entitled to overthrow our democratic government and kill any politician who doesn't subscribe to our moronic delusions."

And, if Obama's administration was really the evil socialist dictatorship the wingnuts claim, this guy really would have been grabbed, hustled into a black van, and never seen again. The same would be true of all of the astroturf 'protestors' who are disrupting our democratic town hall meetings and shouting down anybody who disagrees with them. By now, if you believe the paranoid ranting of the Right, they should all be interned for life in some FEMA detention camp.

Of course, this has not happened - not that this fact would ever penetrate the paranoid 'brains' of the lunatic 'fringe' who now comprise most of what is left of the Republican party and the formerly conservative ideology.

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» Please... Posted by: katnip

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Alternet Should Name Itself Truthfully As "Corporate PropagandaNet"
[Report this comment]
Posted by: mtcloud on Aug 12, 2009 6:53 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Top 16 ways that the Alternet feeds you Indoctrination & Propaganda vs. Education

http://www.trufax.org/general/indoc.html

1a. One-sided: Different or opposing views are either ignored, misrepresented, under-represented, or denigrated.
2a. Uses generalizations, "allness" statements, and lack of specific references and data.
3a. Card Stacking: Data carefully selected - even distorted - to present only the best or worse possible case. Language used to conceal.
4a. Misleading use of statistics.
5a. Herding: Ignores distinctions and subtle differences. Attempts to bring together superficially similar elements together. Reasons by analogy.
6a. False Dilemma (either/or): Only two solutions to the problem or two ways of viewing the issue - the "right way" (writer or speaker's way) and the "wrong way" (any other way).
7a. Appeals to Authority: Statements by selected authority figures used to clinch an argument. "Only the expert knows" approach.
8a. Appeals to consensus or bandwagon approach: "Everybody's doing it so it must be right".
9a. Appeals to emotions and emotional responses: Uses words and pictures with strong emotional connotations.
10a. Labeling: Uses labels and derogatory language to describe proponents of opposing viewpoint.
11a. Promotes attitudes of attack and/or defense with the aim of selling a position or product.
12a. Ignores assumptions and built-in biases.
13a. Language promotes lack of awareness and unconsciousness.
14a. Can lead to tunnel vision and bigotry.
15a. Referenced studies conceal conflict-of-interest funding sources..
16a. Statistics always presented to show maximum damage from problem and minimum damage from solution.

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» zzzzzzzz Posted by: EinMD
» ...zzzzzzzz Posted by: GuitarBill
» 22 things for YOU! Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: 22 points of GREAT ADVICE Posted by: mythmorph
» Oh... Posted by: katnip

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Don't like the gun nuts but I can't blame the rising gun sales thanks to
[Report this comment]
Posted by: maxpayne on Aug 12, 2009 6:55 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
pathetic leadership from the Democratic Party and their very poor handling of the health care crisis. I read HR3200 as it currently stands and so far there is no real public option in there, just more special interest bullshit and pork barreling to sort of speak. If the Democrats would quit playing go-along-get-along with the GOP and put single payer or at least some form of genuine universal health care (not to be confused with the Taxachusetts model), these silly townhall meetings wouldn't be needed and we the taxpayers could be spared. Instead, there's nothing but dumbshow town hall meetings along with another set of dumbshow rightwing motherfuckers. No wonder this country's in the toilet !

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Delusional projection...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: BlueSun on Aug 12, 2009 6:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For decades the Right has made accusation after accusation about what they believe the Democrats plan to do. For decades, these accusations have failed to materialize. Yet, as each accusation is demonstrated to be false, a half-dozen new ones sprout up to take their places.

Ironically, the very things the Right accuse the Left of planning end up being done - by the Right. It leads one to the inescapable conclusion that wingnut rants about evil Democratic plans to create a dictatorial, one-party state are in fact projections of their own desire to do precisely that.

I recall earlier this year, when the entire right-wing noise machine was parroting Michelle Malkin's accusation that left-wing demonstrators were organizing cadres to disrupt the Tea Party demonstrators and shout them down. The Right was incensed at this imagined 'fascist' plot to disrupt democracy and interfere with their right of Free Speech.

Of course, like so many other accusations, this never happened - not that any of the wingnut talking heads ever acknowledged that they were wrong.

Now, the Right is doing precisely what they were falsely accusing the Left of plotting. Well-organized groups of so-called 'protesters,' terrified by the lies and disinformation of the Right-wing ideologues in service to the health insurance industry, are being bused around to Democratic town hall meetings to engage in precisely the jack-booted thuggery that they wrongly accused the Left of planning just months ago. [BTW, notice that not only are the Left not showing up to disrupt Republican political town halls, the right-wing protesters are not even bothering to show up and hear what their own representatives have to say.

And the same media gasbags who were outraged - Outraged, I Say! - over their fantasy about Move On and ACORN plotting this same tactic, are gleefully cheerleading and even blatantly provoking precisely this anti-democratic mob behavior by their own followers.

In the late 1920s and early 1930s, when the Nazi party was just one of several competing for votes in the German parliament, a common party tactic was to send groups of their members around to political meetings of their opponents to shout down the opposition and intimidate the opposing candidates. So, it is doubly ironic that, even as the wingnuts are following the old script of the Nazis, Italian Fascists, Stalinist Communists, and other thuggish authoritarian movements, they are denouncing their opponents as Nazis and fascists.

A bit of projection, methinks. Hmmmmmmm...

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The Top 16 ways that the Alternet Could Create Real Investigate Media For Education & Common Good
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Posted by: mtcloud on Aug 12, 2009 7:01 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Top 16 ways that the Alternet Could Create Real Investigate Media For Education & Common Good

http://www.trufax.org/general/indoc.html

1b. Many sided: Issues examined from many points of view; opposition fairly represented.
2b. Uses qualifiers: Statements supported with specific references and data.
3b. Balanced: Presents samples from a wide range of available data on the subject. Language used to reveal.
4b. Statistical references qualified with respect to size, duration, criteria, controls, source and subsidizer.
5b. Discrimination: Points out differences and subtle distinctions. Use analogies carefully, pointing out differences and non-applicability.
6b. Alternatives: There are many ways of solving a problem or viewing an issue.
7b. Appeals to reason: Statements by authority figures and concerned parties used to stimulate thought and discussion. "Experts seldom agree".
8b. Appeals to fact: Facts selected from broad data base. Logical, ethical, aesthetic and psycho-spiritual aspects considered.
9b. Appeals to people's capacity for thoughtful, reasoned responses: Uses emotionally neutral words and illustrations.
10b. Avoids labels and derogatory language: Addresses the argument, not the people supporting a particular viewpoint.
11b. Promotes attitudes of openness and inquiry. Aim is to discover.
12b. Explores assumptions and built-in biases.
13b. Language usage promotes greater awareness and consciousness.
14b. Can lead to breadth of vision and understanding.
15b. Referenced studies reveal conflict-of-interest funding sources.
16b. Statistics presented to show many aspects of problem, not always from a non-max/min approach.

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» 25 THINGS FOR YOU! Posted by: foreverhope

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This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» Try and take my gun. Please? Posted by: AuditTheFed
» Zing! Posted by: AuditTheFed
» RE: Zing! Posted by: jonestown kool-aid
» Jefferson never said that. Posted by: ETSpoon

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"Gun-Nut Outside Obama Townhall ....."
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Posted by: xvictor on Aug 12, 2009 7:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Absence of any threat against him, there's no practical purpose or reason to display the holstered weapon unless it's to call notice to his small 'manhood'.

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» penis envy Posted by: YogiBear

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"The best defense against tyranny is a well-armed populace."
[Report this comment]
Posted by: xvictor on Aug 12, 2009 8:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A good example of this is the Taliban and Iraqi insurgents fighting against tyrannical U.S. Government forces.

As fighting men, are the Taliban and Iraqi insurgents not magnificent? They have only rifles, explosives, RPGs, and balls. Their enemies have unlimited air support, helicopters, armor, artillery, sophisticated communications, night-vision gear, good food and excellent medical care. The Taliban and Iraqi insurgents take heavy casualties, their enemies almost none. The ragheads do not even have PX privileges. Yet they have not been defeated.

A fight on even terms would last perhaps five minutes. And I doubt the gun loving, 2nd Amendment nutcases here would last even that long.

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» Guns rule. Posted by: AuditTheFed

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Grassfire a 501(c)3 ??
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Posted by: reelectnoone on Aug 12, 2009 8:48 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How does one get to take a tax exemption for the purpose of politically attacking reforms by Congress?

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If he'd been at a Bush rally with a T-shirt that was anti-Bush
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Posted by: harpy on Aug 12, 2009 8:54 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
he would have been arrested. Anybody that wasn't invited would have been kept in "free speech" zones.
His purpose was to instill fear, and it doesn't take much for this type of thing to get out of hand.

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"You would think Social Security was some sort of a government program
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Posted by: bitsfick on Aug 12, 2009 9:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
GWB. "Keep you government socialist hands off my medicare" some uninformed asshole at a town meeting.

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Why must they ruin...
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Posted by: constitution, what constitution on Aug 12, 2009 9:11 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... perfectly good quotes and perfectly good images by associating them with their insane "cause?"

Regardless of your thoughts towards these people, you have to give the masterminds of the "cause" their credit because they're doing a damn fine job of manipulating media and keeping their message in the spotlight.

Insanity sells, and the more ignorant people see the message the more they're inclined to join. Standard groupthink, executed well.

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Some thoughts
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Posted by: willymack on Aug 12, 2009 9:31 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The guy at the rally with a gun on his hip, legal or otherwise and his sign is a NUT.
He's an ignorant nut, because he's pissed about something that, if enacted, will almost certainly benefit HIM, and something he won't hesitate to take advantage of if the need arises.
It's a mystery to me how someone can take factual information and get it ass-backwards anyway, unless his mind is disordered or he has a bad case of STUPID. Maybe it's a virus or something.

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Let's Dial This Down a Notch, Shall We?
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Posted by: On the Border on Aug 12, 2009 10:23 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For openers, I'll say this guy may well be a "gun nut." However, the argument that anybody wearing a pistol at this-or-that event MUST be a gun nut is patently absurd. I'm a full-on liberal with no party affiliation. I own a single firearm and I carry it with me nearly all the time, sometimes concealed (yes I've got a permit) and sometimes open. I'm no gun nut.

To my knowledge, the man made no threats to anyone. He's also guaranteed the right, whether we like it or not, to carry that sign and wear that tee shirt. I will tell you with 100% certainty that all law enforcement personnel in the area were aware of his weapon and watched him a bit more closely than other participants, as well they should. But the fact remains that he was well within the law and his rights.

As I would be, were I to show up at a rally with a "Yes We Can" sign and a .45 on my hip.

As I said, he may well be a "gun nut," or he may not. But knee-jerk reactions like the opening of this article (and a good percentage of the comments) look like little more than a fear response to me. And very little gets done when your actions are based on overgeneralizations and fear.

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Rico
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Posted by: EJW on Aug 12, 2009 10:24 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can't these GOP groups promoting this stupidity, hate and violence be prosecuted under "organized crime" law?

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I may be older
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Posted by: badkitty on Aug 12, 2009 10:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I may be older than most of the people commenting here, but I was a teenager when Kennedy was assassinated, and an adult when Reagan was shot (these are presidents, kiddies, I'm not talking about King or RFK). You can be close or far away and shoot a president, and I am really surprised that the church, the police, the FBI, the Secret Service, the other people standing with this man, didn't make him take his gun and go away. I can't imagine why he thought he needed a gun at this rally, since no one else seemed to need one. New Hampshire should change its laws--this guy wasn't on a hunting trip (not with that gun and in that area). And can someone identify the church and its pastor? It seems to me that this is akin to crying "fire!" in a crowded theater.

I don't want to see another president assassinated, and I don't think the far right will like what might happen to them and gun laws afterward, either. I don't think this was a free speech or gun ownership issue, this was a threat. Next time, he can bring a sign saying he is going to shoot the president, instead of a gun, and see how far he gets.

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» RE: I may be older Posted by: YogiBear

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Stupid
[Report this comment]
Posted by: rafaeltoral on Aug 12, 2009 10:49 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Get a life. The guy was on private property exercising his second amendment rights.

Next time I see someone holding a protest sign I'm going to call him or her a free speech nut.

I think at this point I hate so called liberals as much as so called conservatives. Different sides of the same small minded coin.

Any people left out there who can think for themselves? I guess safety in numbers is the herd mentality.

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» Cliche-laden Bullshit Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: Stupid Posted by: desidid
» RE: Stupid Posted by: Malamute

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MY OLD MAN was an anti-gun nut
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Posted by: billwald on Aug 12, 2009 11:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After listening to his BS for 20 years I told him, "Put a sign in front of your house, 'GUN-FREE HOUSE." He replied, "You think I'm crazy?" and never again mentioned guns.

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Explain to a bewildered foreigner........ please
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Posted by: hilaryuk on Aug 12, 2009 11:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As I understand it, America is 'in danger' of getting health reform that will still be predicated on what the corporate players want, the single payer option being increasingly less likely. Such a non citizen-centred fudge would be howled out of the stadium in most West European countries, regardless of the political complexion of their governments. But great chunks of your media and polity are screaming socialism and manufacturing misrepresentations of what seems a very modest proposal. I am confused.

Last year an Iraqi was locked up, without any plea for mercy from America ,for the crime of throwing a shoe - one single non-explosive shoe - at your President. Your current President has received many death threats, but the state authorities think it is fine for an openly armed man brandishing a threat to stand around waiting for him. I am even more confused.

A Christian Church - i.e. a Church nominally espousing the Gospel of Love as preached by Jesus - allows this man whose heart is obviously filled with hate and violence to use its grounds to make the explicit threat. I am not just confused now, I am appalled.

I wonder if it occurred to anyone that this blatant act of hatred could have been designed to take the attention of those guarding your President away from a hidden but serious threat?

I wonder if the answer to the increasing irrationality of a sizeable section of your population would be the banning of your churches - it might give their leaders time to read the Gospels and discover how far they have travelled from the message therein. Or perhaps you could ask Rupert Murdoch exactly why he wants to accelerate, aid and abet the process of the USA's self destruction. It seems to me - and I am only a distant observer - that the day those on the other side of the argument from the nutters start to adopt the enemy's intemperate, violent, irrational, fact-oblivious style and methods will be be the day America signs its own suicide note.

Of course, I may just have an over literal mind and am merely misreading what is happening - cultural misunderstanding or something. But I sincerely do not understand.

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Perhaps a shooting is what is needed?
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Posted by: ETSpoon on Aug 12, 2009 12:01 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hate to say it...no, really I don't...but perhaps a shooting incident by one of these cranked-up Astroturf, warriors of the rabid-dog, reactionary right is what is needed to shock their handmaidens in the mainstream media that they're corporate masters are losing their grip on the unwashed.

Thus far, the coordinators in the M$M has connived with their corporate masters to rein-in and control the excesses of the foot-soldiery from otherwise despised working class.

But once the lily-livered FauxNews on-scene reporters are exposed to the raw hatred that their studio-bound colleagues have helped to generate, maybe they will have an epiphany?

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according to what this man said on 'Hardball' last night
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Posted by: left_witch on Aug 12, 2009 12:08 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
he attended the town hall meeting to discuss the 2nd amendment.

immediately i wondered why he would attend a town hall meeting that was on the topic of health care reform if he wanted to discuss the 2nd amendment?

i will wager my next paycheck that he was paid to show up there with his weapon, just to incite fear and stir up the crowd and to draw attention to himself with the media.

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how do/can Republicans blame others for their creations?
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Posted by: Bearzerker on Aug 12, 2009 12:30 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
..."brought to you by restoretherepublic.org."
Visit the site of Restore the Republic, and you will find a wealth of information on some of the far right's favorite conspiracy theories: the Bilderberg conspiracy, the Tri-Lateral Commission, the New World Order and "FEMA internment camps." The site is a draw for anti-government gun enthusiasts and survivalists...

and then fire up the monsters predominatly in their court, and blame all their planning and actions on everyone but those responsible for this violence, and just cuts loose their imbeciles in such a violent and triggerhappy way?

How is it that they can get away with this type of behavior and no one takes notice that they are the reasons for their paranoia!

as the song goes...Paranoia could destroy yaaaaa...

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"For What It's Worth” by the Buffalo Springfield!
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Posted by: foreverhope on Aug 12, 2009 12:55 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Somewhat odd to me. This a fav from my youth was written to encourage our gov't to do the right thing. We got'er done!

Now I offer it as an Anthem to protect our Town Hall meetings from terrorism.

There's something happening here
What it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware

I think it's time we stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind

I think it's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

What a field-day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly say, hooray for our side

It's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away

We better stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, now, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

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deb
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Posted by: debmcd on Aug 12, 2009 1:00 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is just amazing. During the Bush years protesting wasn't tolerated. Carrying a loaded gun to a presidential event? You couldn't even wear a tee shirt the right didn't like without getting arrested. These boneheads seem to forget how restrictive things were during those years. We have more rights and less taxes now but these guys don't want anyone to remember that because that could cause them to lose some of there followers. No followers means no stupid, racial, childish sideshows which means no media coverage. That's all they are doing this for. To get their ugly red mugs in front of a camera. They won't discuss because that's not what they were hired to do. Just be outraged. But don't ask them what they are outraged about, they couldn't tell you. It wasn't in their approved talking points.

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» RE: deb Posted by: RevinFreddy
» RE: deb Posted by: jackyD

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BANTERING & JOKING ABOUT GUNS AT TOWN HALL MEETINGS IS A THREAT AGAINST OUR COUNTRY!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: foreverhope on Aug 12, 2009 1:37 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
VERY CAPABLE OF VIOLENCE! YOU JACK OFF THINKING ABOUT WAYS TO EXPLODE OUR COUNTRY INTO VIOLENCE ACTS OF INTIMIDATION! IT IS YOUR BREAD AND BUTTER! IT IS WHY YOU GET OUT OF BED EVERY DAY!

YOU WILL NOT NOT NOT BE TOLERATED HERE!!!!!

YOU ARE NOT NOT NOT FUCKING WELCOME HERE YOU MISERABLE TOWN.HALL.COMERS MAGGOT RON PAUL LOVING PATHETIC CREATURES WITHOUT A SOUL. NOT ONE SINGLE SOUL AMONG YOU!

GO BACK TO YOUR HOLE! LICK YOUR WOUNDS AS I KNOW YOU ARE SERIOUSLY WOUNDED NOW! WE KNOW YOU!

BLEEDING PATHETIC BASTARDS! BURN BURN BURN IN TARTARUS!

ANY BANTER ABOUT TAKING GUNS TO OUR TOWN HALL MEETINGS IS A THREAT AGAINST OUR COUNTRY! OUR PRESIDENT AND OUR PEOPLE!

GO FONDLE YOUR BLOODY FUCKING GUNS AND MASTURBATE WHILE YOU CHATTER AT ONE ANOTHER ABOUT HOW STUPID WE ARE AND HOW VERY SMART YOU ARE!

WE DON'T BELIEVE YOU! WE'VE GOT YOU! DON'T DON'T DON'T YOU GET THAT!

WE WILL PROTECT OUR DISCUSSIONS AND ALTERNET FROM YOU FUCKING MISERABLE SOB MAGGOTS!

BE GONE! YOU ARE ALL SPAWNS OF THE DEVIL DOING HIS WORK!

GOOD WILL WIN OVER EVIL!

SAY YOUR PRAYERS MAGGOTS! PRAY HARD FOR YOUR SOULS! PERHAPS IT WILL KEEP YOU FROM THE VERY DEEPEST DEPTHS OF TARTARUS!

WE WILL NOT NOT NOT ALLOW YOU TO DISRESPECT OUR PRESIDENT NOR MAKE LIGHT JOKES OR BANTER ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING TO OUR COUNTRY.

GO FUCK YOURSELVES! YOU ARE A CURSE CURSE CURSE ON MY COUNTRY!

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Stop Obamacare renamed Stop Obama
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Posted by: desidid on Aug 12, 2009 1:39 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just saw on MSNBC that militias are on the rise, the secret service has fewer resources, including that they don't always do metal detection at all of Obama's appearances. And that the threats to Obama are up 400% to those against Bush due to racism. I have said for years that we are headed towards a race war, and I believe that an attempt by one of these groups against Obama will be the spark that ignites it.

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Again
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Posted by: Robba29 on Aug 12, 2009 2:09 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When is the left going to realize that sit ins and signs are not going to help. We need to do the same thing the right is doing, and be prepared. They will come for us--and what are we going to do? Hold up a flower? We need a left militancy reminiscent of the late 1800's union riots! It is time!

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» Exactly Right Posted by: On the Border

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David Scott On Chris Matthew Right Now
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Posted by: desidid on Aug 12, 2009 2:10 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Read a letter that called for Obama's death and that called him a n**ger. I looked for a meeting in my neck of the woods, but have not seen any. I live in a Republican district, I want to go and not disrupt, but to question. If I'm faced with one of these klansmen they will see that the days of Black fear are long gone. The first to call me n**ger to my face will get a down home beat down and I'm 54 years old.

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Μολὼν λαβέ
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Posted by: login@bugmenot.com on Aug 12, 2009 3:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Μολὼν λαβέ

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FEAR! FEAR! FEAR! FEAR! FEAR! FEAR! FEAR!
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Posted by: foreverhope on Aug 12, 2009 3:27 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"We have nothing to fear but fear itself. Nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat and advance." ~ Franklin Roosevelt

linked text

Fear of a loss of individual liberty in response to the war on terror.
Fear that the paranoia over terrorism will erode everything this country was founded on.
Fear that liberals haven't degraded the education system enough so most people still know that Abraham Lincoln and FDR suspended many liberties to deal with similar crises

Fear that Bu$h is to blame for everything
Fear that Bu$h isn't to blame for everything
Fear that if you continue to blame everything on Bu$h, you won't actually figure out who really is to blame for your problems
Fear that your spelling of Bu$h reflects your intellectual prowess, in a nutshell.
And for that, you still blame Bu$h
And your parent$

Fear of Walmart
Fear of people who shop at Walmart
Fear that you might actually save money if you shopped at Walmart
Fear that Walmart has done more to help the poor than any social program ever created by our government.

Fear of all forms of energy except for the ones that don't work
Fear that people will realize the easiest way to cut back on greenhouse gases is to convert to nuclear energy
Fear that your activism will be exposed as a front for your narcissism
Fear that low taxes actually do create prosperous societies
Fear that people will find out what a hypocrite you are because you call for higher taxes while using tax shelters

Fear of mean people
Fear of judgmental people
Fear of appearing narrow-minded
Fear of intolerance
Fear that with your tirades against SUVs, Wal-Mart, meat, cigarettes, guns, whisky, and organized religion, you are the judgmental, intolerant one.

Fear that your children won't carry on your failed politics as religion/lifestyle

fear of being judged in the afterlife
fear of being judged in this life
fear of that dark facial freckle
Fear that your new age health practices won't be able to save you from that dark facial freckle

Fear that the exposure that you're being for the 'common man' is a joke considering you go to the only clubs and bars roped off to keep those people out.

Fear that when they take away your anger there will be nothing left.

Fear of free speech when it mocks your beliefs.
Fear of free speech when it speaks back to you.
Fear of free speech when it comes from Christians.
Fear of free speech when it comes from me.
Fear that your definition of free speech - that only you get to be heard-- won't fly with us Wal-mart shoppers.

Fear of black Republicans
Fear that one day blacks will figure out you're the racist for always treating them like helpless victims instead of responsible individuals.

Fear that maybe shame is a good thing

Fear of "crackpot Christians"
Fear that these fears do not measure up to the more legitimate fear of crackpot Islamists who blow you up in order to sleep with 72 virgins who are most likely lousy in bed anyway.

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Μολὼν λαβέ
[Report this comment]
Posted by: login@bugmenot.com on Aug 12, 2009 3:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Μολὼν λαβέ

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