NEWS & POLITICS  
AlterNet / By Joshua Holland
comments_imageCOMMENTS: 283

The Terrorist Threat: Right-Wing Radicals and the Eliminationist Mindset

Understanding the dangerous worldview that led to the murder of an innocent doctor and an attack at the Holocaust Museum.
June 12, 2009  |  
 
 
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In April, the Department of Homeland Security issued a report (PDF) warning that the shifting political climate and tanking economy were spurring a resurgence of violent right-wing extremism (known as "terrorism" when applied to those holding other political views) in the United States.

At the time, a number of right-wing commentators lambasted the report as a politically motivated attack on mainstream conservatism rather than what it was: an early warning on the dangers posed by a violent, fringe minority within their movement. Under pressure from GOP lawmakers, Homeland Security Chief Janet Napolitano apologized for the report.

But in the short weeks since, the department's warnings have proved prescient. An abortion provider who had been a frequent target of Fox News' bloviator Bill O'Reilly was gunned down during a church service in Kansas; a mentally disturbed man who believed the "tea-bagging" movement's contention that the Obama administration is destroying the American economy -- and who reportedly owned a number of firearms -- withdrew $85,000 from his bank account, said he was part of a plot to assassinate the president and disappeared (he was later captured in Las Vegas); and this week, a white supremacist who was deeply steeped in far-right conspiracism entered the U.S. Holocaust Museum and opened fire, killing a guard before being shot and wounded by security personnel.

The three incidents share a common feature: All of these men thought they were serving a higher moral purpose, that is, defending their country from an insidious "enemy within" as defined by the far right -- a "baby-killer," the Jews who secretly control the world and a president who's been accused of being a Manchurian Candidate-style foreign agent bent on nothing less than the destruction of the American Way.

David Neiwert, a veteran journalist who has covered violent right-wing groups for years, calls the worldview that informs this twisted sense of moral purpose "eliminationism." It's the belief that one's political opponents are not just wrongheaded, misinformed or even acting in bad faith. Eliminationism holds that they are a cancer on the body politic that must be excised -- either by separation from the public at large, through censorship or by outright extermination -- in order to protect the purity of the nation.

As eliminationist rhetoric becomes increasingly mainstream within the American right -- fueled in large part by the wildly overheated discourse found on conservative blogs and talk radio -- Neiwert's new book, The Eliminationists: How Hate Talk Radicalized the American Right, could not have come at a more important time. In it, Neiwert painstakingly details how the rise in eliminationism is a very real threat and points to the dangers of dismissing extreme rhetoric as merely a form of "entertainment."

AlterNet recently caught up with Neiwert in Washington to discuss this troubling trend.

Joshua Holland: There is a lot of ugly discourse in this country, and there always has been. What makes eliminationist rhetoric different from the kind of run-of-the-mill nasty stuff that we see on all sides of the political spectrum?

David Neiwert: Right -- there is a lot of hateful rhetoric that floats around on both sides. What's unique about eliminationist rhetoric is that it talks about eliminating whole blocs of people from the body politic, whereas most of the hateful rhetoric, in the case of people on the left, is directed at an individual -- George Bush or Dick Cheney and various characters on the right. That's one of the key differences -- when right-wing people talk hatefully, it often is directed at entire groups of people: Latinos, African Americans, gays and lesbians or liberals.

JH: People they deem to be inferior.

DN: Deemed inferior, or not even human. That is a critical aspect of eliminationist rhetoric. It often depicts the opposition as subhuman -- comparing them with vermin, diseases or carriers of diseases. I think for me the classic historical expression of eliminationism in America was Col. [John] Chivington's remarks prior to the Sand Creek Massacre, where he urged the white Colorado militiamen to kill all the Indians they encountered, including women and children. He said, "nits make lice." That to me is pretty much a classic eliminationist statement.


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Joshua Holland is an editor and senior writer at AlterNet.
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» yes, oh great encinoM, Posted by: Juven
» RE: yes, oh great encinoM, Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: yes, oh great encinoM, Posted by: EncinoM
» hate crime info is outdated Posted by: left_witch

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Tye political right as public-health threat
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Perry Logan on Jun 12, 2009 3:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I regard the political right in America as a public-health problem, pure and simple.

Everything about the right--their love of guns, war, torture, major corporations; their neglect of infrastructure and government regulation, etc.--can be considered a threat to the public health. Our lives are shorter because of right-wing policies. People die everry day because of the right.

Their brief period (2000-2006) of hegemeny has well-nigh destroyed the Republic.

The battle between left and right is no longer a political situation. The right pose a palpable threat to the national health. We must get these people out of our country by some non-violent means.

It's probably no use talking to these people. Recent studies show that the brains of right-wingers don't even function properly. I know it sounds like a joke, but it's true:

Study finds left-wing brain, right-wing brain.
Denise Gellene, LA Times

There you go. There is no point in reasoning with people whose brains don't even work. We can start by confiscating their guns.

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» RE: Eliminationist mindset Posted by: solrev
» Gotta love it! Posted by: photon's feather
» What other country would have them? Posted by: grindermonkey

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The lies we tell ourselves today for comfort
[Report this comment]
Posted by: weathered on Jun 12, 2009 3:48 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
because we fear the consequences, will in time inflict the most discomfort.

If you believe the guy at the Museum was a aberration, a one-off you'll have done a disservice to yourself and your readers.

Again, humility eludes us, denial becomes us and trouble follows us.
For some this simple, but essential spiritual lesson is just too hard to grasp - and it shows, despite the contortions to prove otherwise.

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» Americas Prisom Nation Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars

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It's time to take away their bullhorns
[Report this comment]
Posted by: hagwind on Jun 12, 2009 4:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
David Neiwert:
Eliminationist rhetoric has the effect of creating permission for people to act. We can't turn away from that.

This interview does an excellent job of exploring why "eliminationist" rhetoric is dangerous. I also appreciate its treatment of the First Amendment issues. Speech is protected from government interference because it's important -- because it can make a difference. Which means we can't (or shouldn't), Patriot Act to the contrary, shut down free speech because it's threatening the status quo. That's what it's supposed to do. But supporting free speech, and opposing censorship, doesn't mean letting dangerous BS go unopposed.

Neiwert is right: no one has a God-given or constitutional right to a bullhorn that can blare his or her bile out to millions of people every day. As Liebling said, "Freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one" -- but those who own the presses, and the bullhorns, can be pressured the way most pressuring is done in this society: economically.

When hate-filled rhetoric inspires murder, it's tragic, but this unrelenting spewing of hate is dangerous in other ways too. It stifles rational thought and discussion of issues. You can't go to any major newspaper's website without finding post after post of this bilge in the comments sections. It's one reason the "political climate" in this country is so dismal, and with every passing year it gets harder to remember that it was ever any better.

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» RE: It's time to take away their bullhorns Posted by: Mathew Trisencusean
» Do you know what illogic is? Posted by: Mathew Trisencusean
» Thanks, Quannah! Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Thanks, Quannah! Posted by: Quannah
» To the trolls here... Posted by: Quannah
» RE: To the trolls here... Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: To the trolls here... Posted by: hagwind

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Eliminationists
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Mathew Trisencusean on Jun 12, 2009 4:49 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Are you going to wipe all commentary to this article like you did to Chip Berlets article from yesterday Alternet?
Have you got any explanation why we can copy it, email it but not comment on it?
Or are you just exercising your right to your own form of eliminationism?
Your right about one thing in this article.
The link between eliminationists and facsism is clear.

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» RE: liminationists Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: liminationists Posted by: Mathew Trisencusean
» RE: liminationists Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: liminationists Posted by: Mathew Trisencusean
» RE: liminationists Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: liminationists Posted by: Mathew Trisencusean
» Your logic is flawed. Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: liminationists Posted by: Shey
» RE: liminationists Posted by: Gravitas
» RE: liminationists Posted by: Joshua Holland
Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.

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What to call them: "pretend Jews"? Zionists? Beguilers? Terrorist Jews?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: whole2th on Jun 12, 2009 4:50 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Religious Jews are good human beings as are religious Moslems, religious Christians, Bahai, Hindus, etc. who follow core creeds of conduct such as "do unto others".

Certain subsets of each religion have proven to be dangerous to humanity and freedom. There's a subset of Jews who violate the core creed of "do unto others, and who could not possibly be religious Jews, IMO. These "Pretend Jews" use real Jews like terrorist Islamics would put their women and children on a tank and bark "anti-Semitic" when evidence reveals their deceptive involvments in "false flags" operations. Humanity must know these agents of change for the monsters they are.

Pretend Jews (false Jews, Zionists) attacked the USS Liberty in 1967 and got away with it. Pretend Jews collaborated with Hitler in prosecuting the holocaust and killing millions of real Jews. Pretend Jews were involved in the Lavon Affair. And, most notably in this post-9/11 hell-bent rush to fascism based on BIG LIES OF 9/11, pretend Jews were key co-conspirators to pull off 9/11.

Whenever evidence surfaces to implicate the beguiling terrorist pretend Jews, pretend Jews invoke (bark out) the "anti-Semitic" label which mostly has worked to shut down the listening of masses who wish no harm to Jews (as I do not wish harm to real Jews).
I admire and respect real Jews. Real Jews need protection from the harms inflicted on the world by pretend Jews just as much as real Islamics need protection from radical Islamics, and good Italians need to be distinguished from Mafia.

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» RE: Quite apt... Posted by: lightwing1

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» RE: Amazing Posted by: chariotdrvr14
» Prophit is a liar Posted by: Shey

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The Crazies are Having a Picnic
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Tom Degan on Jun 12, 2009 5:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Something to think about:

If there ever is another Tim McVeigh-styled domestic attack against our government; if the old fashioned tradition of assassinating liberal politicians even again comes back into vogue, the Rush Limbaughs, the Sean Hannity's the Bill O'Riellys, the Ann Coulters, the Michael Weiners, the Michael Reagans, the Glenn Becks - all of them - will have blood on their foolish, clueless hands.

On that happy note....

Lenny Bruce's House

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

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» RE: The Crazies are Having a Picnic Posted by: Prairie Waif
» What do you mean, IF? Posted by: Centavo
» Prophit is a mental case Posted by: Shey
» I'm sure you did. Posted by: Shey

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Otto
[Report this comment]
Posted by: otto on Jun 12, 2009 5:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The ideal of everybody speaking out and making a change is great, but it only happens a little bit at a time. One weakness for the left (if we're really more sympathetic and open) is that we aren't quite as sure of ourselves...we don't want to judge or condemn someone unless we're certain. Things for the other side are generally either black or white, no gray. It's hard to go at things as forcibly from this point of view, but I think it's the right point of view...it's just hard to live it.

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» RE: Otto Posted by: luzmejor
» RE: Otto Posted by: otto
» RE: Otto Posted by: pomes

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Eliminationists? Nah...they're really "Puritans"
[Report this comment]
Posted by: AnIndependentThinker on Jun 12, 2009 5:29 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Right-wing radical zealots are not really eliminationists; in fact, they're more or less like the Puritans of the 1600s. "Individual differences were frowned upon...and they were expected to live by a rigid moral code." (Source - Salem Witch Trials)

The dirty little secret, though, is that Puritans (much like the "eliminationists" of today) had no moral respect for their human counterparts. Their obcession with displaced religion (like other radical fundamentalist terrorists)both then, and now, has created an unstable environment of irrational thinking, behavior, and insane philosophies and imagined conspiracies.

The largest problem that I forsee and have forseen for some time now is the stranglehold that the religious-rightwing has on governmental entities. For example, if we truly want to separate church and state to maintain a civil country where we can exercise such religious or non-religious freedoms, then we must remove the voting booths from local churches and other religious facilities. Voting is a civil process that should never have and needs to be COMPLETELY removed from religious institutions. We have public schools, fire stations, community centers, and the like where citizens should be able to vote. That's a start to fix this growing radical fundamentalistic terrorist virus.

Next, start holding news network sponsors accountable for shows that they sponsor. When radical fundamentalist leaders (and yes -- that's what people like Bill O'Really? and windbag Limbaugh are)start slandering average citizens and create a posse comitatus breeding ground for crazed evangelist murderers, then they need to be held accountable for their motivation to incite others to undesirable actions. There will be some, who will argue that Bill'O only called out one or two people and stated his opinion; but that's not the case when it's drilled into the mentally-warped brains of radical fundamentalists day in and day out -- and that is exactly what he and others like him have done. Hold 'em accountable. Hold sponsors accountable. Stop buying products and/or services of those companies that support hate rants.

Hatred in America is alive and well. It is breed by not-so-christian christians, who belong to zealot sleeper cells in this nation. There is indeed an "enemy within," but it's not the sane citizens of this country that we must worry about -- it's the ones who follow the radical rightwing group of religiousity. That's not Christian - that's pure evil...Modern-Day Puritans.

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» And no genitals, so no sex! n//m Posted by: countingdaisies

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stress and anxiety about the future makes people...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ellie on Jun 12, 2009 5:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
act out in sometimes dangerous ways...remove the social safety nets and everyone is capable of harming others... it's called anger and frustration with the feelings of no way out but through... when you feel that there is nothing left to loose in your society you feel alone, isolated and free to use your life to take out as many oppressors as you can(false consciousness)... labeled 'insurgents'...

many individuals have used themselves as human sacrifices without formal and structured organizations to back them up over the years... the 'lone gunman theory'...

don't want to limit the first amendment, but love the idea of pulling advertising $$ from those that fan the flames of fear and hate... you want to mouth off, use your own $$ to do it...

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Historical Precedence made Napolitanos memo Legit
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Purple Girl on Jun 12, 2009 5:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Come on we have had numerous Right Wing Domestic terrorist acts committed fro Decades. Planned parenthood bombings, MD Assasinations, Atlanta Olympics, OK City, Unibomber....She had every right to claim there could be another uptick in these radical fringes of our society- they have a long history of violence and are constantly writing about their intentions on the Internet.
This is why those Incitors of hate and Fear with radio, TV or Political Office should be held Legally responsible for their Rhetoric. it's not as though this is a new phenomena.They KNOW exactly who they are provoking and inspiring. Prehaps if they could prove they had a lobotomy or had some form of Dementia people lik BillO and Michelle Bachmann could plead ignorance- but they can't.
Who should really be held liable are the Broadcasting Corps who hire them as their employee, give them a national platform (exposure) and fail to even formulate a disclaimer that the 'views and opinions expressed are not necessarily the views of this station'. As for people like Bachmann, et al they are Employees of the US, therefore they are required to not only serve & protect US, but represent US to the nation and the World. When Bachmann calls for people to become 'Armed and Dangerous'- it is a Clear Derelicition of Duty. when she claims to be a 'correspondant behind enemy lines' she is confessing to serving some other body or entity instead of the US House of Representatives as a public servant of the people of MN and the US- Treason.
I see no difference in basic underlying ideology or overt and covert tactics between these Domestic terrorists and others like AQ, Taliban, Hamas, hezzbolah...By Words and Deeds ,They are Terrorist and Enemy combants of the USA

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» Unibomber Posted by: Juven
» RE: Unibomber Posted by: Shey
» no. Posted by: Juven
» I would say Posted by: Juven

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eliminationists
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Mathew Trisencusean on Jun 12, 2009 5:58 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The eliminationists are'nt only "right wing radicals".
Last year Hillary gave a speech about her willingness to "obliterate" Iran.
Obama calls bombing innocent civillians in Afghanistan and Pakistan the "good war"
Maybe the loonies who commited these two recent murders just used the leaders of the free world as role models.

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» RE: eliminationists Posted by: pomes
» RE: eliminationists Posted by: pomes
» exactly Posted by: Juven
» here here Posted by: Juven

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SECESSION!! The only answer
[Report this comment]
Posted by: rugger on Jun 12, 2009 6:04 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Give the right wing whackos Dumbfuckistan (the south) and various parts of Kansas. We'll keep the coasts, NE and NW.

Problem solved!

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» Where would you buy grits? Posted by: grindermonkey
» Stella Bella here, in Lawrence, Kansas Posted by: Ms. DuFontagne
» RE: SECESSION!! The only answer Posted by: johnthetreehugger
» RE: SECESSION!! The only answer Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» Excuse me? Posted by: mcubed
» Dumbfuckistan! ROTFLMAO! Posted by: GuitarBill
» wow Posted by: Juven
» RE: wow Posted by: Shey
» left and right = fascist Posted by: Juven

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Goldhagen's not credible!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Parcival01 on Jun 12, 2009 6:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article/interview is well done, EXCEPT that the author/interviewee refers to Daniel Goldhagen as having some credibility. (Yeah, he was sheepish about it, but still). Goldhagen has as much credibility as Coulter to me.

That being said, I was just with a conservative family from California in Washington, DC. While they were nice people, they did convince me that some people we WON'T change. No matter how we reason with them, if people have the attitude that anyone who challenges their 4th grade history book's view on US history "hates America," to them, any reasoning is a threat, another manifestation of hating America!

To them, "revisionist history" is saying something they didn't want to hear.

So first, the reasoning needs to start much earlier. Like replace that 4th grade US history book with something valid, not founding-fathers-as-Disney-characters.

Next we need far, far more emphasis on critical thinking in education. Not rote memorization. Not, whatever makes teacher feel good about himself. But analysis, challenge.

Sure, there'll still be a loon or two out there. But at least Coulter, o'lielly and the like won't have an audience. And that's clearly a step in the right direction!

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» Excellently put! Posted by: zooeyhall
» This is the best comment yet!! Posted by: lupuslefou

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Missing a big point
[Report this comment]
Posted by: kad on Jun 12, 2009 6:18 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article misses a big point, there is a reason these people are willing to buy into this rhetoric. It has nothing to do with religious fanaticism, it has to do with loss of hope. These people have had there hope stripped away. Their jobs lost and sent over seas, their way of life ended, and no one offered anything for them to hope for. They feel they have nothing left to lose, and the only recourse is revolution. If you are a rural/ small town white person no one in power, least of all the liberal elite, cares about you. Sad to say, but the current administration is not helping matters at all. Want to stop the "eliminationists", give them something better to hope for.

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» So very true! Posted by: frantic1971
» False Posted by: LeaderofMen
» RE: False Posted by: WyrdSister
» "Extremist solutions"?? Posted by: Shey

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A finger pointing clusterfuck
[Report this comment]
Posted by: weathered on Jun 12, 2009 6:37 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
will morph and contort until a Leader of honor and integrity steps-up.

By the company Obama keeps that kind of leadership won't happen, the oval office Loves their Lies more than their very selfish agenda.

A stand up leader doesn't need an Axelrod or a Rove, an Emanuel or a photo-op, they're in the business of public service, as a steward of trust not public relations.

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The Left shaping the debate like Fox News
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Posted by: dover23 on Jun 12, 2009 6:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Disagree with their "correct" ideology and you're defending murderers.

Nice going Josh, soon enough you'll be in position to lick Taibbi's boots.

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» Taibbi doesn't wear boots... Posted by: Tim Brown

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Not just a 'moral' imperitive, a RELIGIOUS one
[Report this comment]
Posted by: LeaderofMen on Jun 12, 2009 6:50 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Without exception, these domestic terrorists are not only politically motivated, they are drawn to CHRISTIANITY and the message that they are supreme and no one else is.

Do NOT forget that important element with respect to neocons, Republicans, conservative talk show hosts, and domestic terrorists. Christianity is the 'moral' foundation they draw upon whenever they say or do anything.

Prove me wrong.

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» I'm proving you wrong Posted by: BCcovers

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The sad truth.........
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Jun 12, 2009 6:52 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is that even if you eliminated all of the people/groups (African-Americans, Latinos, Asians) they think are causing all of their problems, these people will still be at the bottom! Simply because they are "white" doesn't mean that all of a sudden they are going to have an automatic pass into the society of the rich and powerful whites that are controlling the whole thing!

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» RE: The sad truth......... Posted by: johnwinthrop

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The rightwing radicals would be far fewer if only the Democrats would
[Report this comment]
Posted by: maxpayne on Jun 12, 2009 7:25 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
be more populist progressive rather than GOP-lite elitist for a change. Forget about the rightwing radicals. Obama, Reid, Pelosi, etc ... are too busy kissing up to Wall $treet, Big Military, Big Religion, etc ... to understand. The rightwing radicals are the symptom of a lack of a populist progressive leadership. Obama is no FDR, JFK, or even LBJ or Carter.

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From a political standpoint...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: BCcovers on Jun 12, 2009 7:35 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The homegrown, Nazi terrorists share a great deal in terms of geopolitical views as Islamic terrorists around the globe. From their hatred of Jews, to their beliefs that Socialism is the future system of the world (with a strong, nationalistic/religious element as well), and the manner in which they execute their terror. These connecitons and similiarities of mind-sets mst not be overlooked and should be heeded by our government.

An Al-Quada terrorist might find easy allies in the Aryan Nation as they both have similiar views and objectives. If one simply peruses these nut-job white-power websites, you won't have to look for long to find pro-palenstinian sentiments and, of course a healthy dose of anti-semetism (I've even seen alternet articles linked on message boards!). Like Osama, they believe that the root of problems within America is the Zionist control of our government. A lone wacko like this guy is a warning and a wake up call to all of America. We not only have to be ready for more henious acts like this one, but we also have to be on the lookout for international cooperation from Islamic-fascists like Al-Quada. Throughout history there has been a long and storied connection between the islamic world and national socialism; let's not let history repeat itself.

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One fact the Media seems to have overlooked
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Fempatriot on Jun 12, 2009 7:39 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is that although there are millions of people who are fed up with being jerked around by some powerful group such as Israel or China or the Globalists--there are only a few who are radical enough or crazy enough to act out their anger and frustration in violence. Most of us complain, but aside from writing letters to Congresspersons (who never seem to give a damn because they're bought by some group) or posting on a few web sites independent enough to let us have our say--the majority of us do not act out in violence. And just because we object to something we perceive as an injustice doesn't mean that we're hate-filled or crazy--it just means that we've got enough sense to recognize when our basic human rights are being trampled. As Americans, we are told that the individual has the right to LIFE, LIBERTY, and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS*. Chew on that and then tell me there aren't people out there aplenty who would deny us these basics of existence.
*"pursuit of happiness" should mean to be able to live life as best you can with what you have and can do.

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Out of 300 million people, of course a few nutsacks are going to take matters into their own hands!
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Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Jun 12, 2009 8:29 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
BTW, how the hell can Obama initiate "change" by recycling these proven Zionists, Bilderbergers, CFRs, Trilaterals, NeoCons, and other treasonous filth, into his "new" administration???

I pray that Obama is not another shill for the NWO/globalists who are trying to usher in a one-world dictatorship!

(The election seemed so staged, pitting senile curmudgeon McCain + young dingbat Palin vs. smooth, polished Obama & Biden!!! The powers that be clearly fostered an Obama/Biden victory! Why???)

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Paul Krugman wrote a fairly similar column today
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Posted by: Defenestrator on Jun 12, 2009 9:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Much less detailed, but worth reading:
The Big Hate

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Contratulations Alternet!
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Posted by: Gravitas on Jun 12, 2009 9:42 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Subtly seems to be doing the trick. You FINALLY learned that blatant attacks with headlines blaring the "CT" words get you no where. A far more subtle approach to establish connections with these extremist nuts and anyone who questions the motives of government seems to be working:

"All of these men thought they were serving a higher moral purpose, that is, defending their country from an insidious "enemy within""

So if we too feel that there ARE enemies within with enormous power and control, should we also feel emotionally unbalanced? Are we in the same league as those receiving messages from space aliens via tuna fish cans at the supermarket? Will our friends associate us with these gun toting lunatics? Maybe we had better back off, turn our thoughts to bigger problems like whether or not digital t.v. really will give us higher definition.

This article was just a far more sophisticated way of suggesting that believing in any type of "conspiracy" is very dangerous! After a long line of more obvious articles with the same objective. So I won't even go into agent provocateurs. Yes, nuts happen. The deaths were tragic no matter who was ultimately behind them. But we don't turn our backs on environmentalists just because of Earth Firsters. Lets not paint anything with a broad brush but keep our minds open. CT can also stand for critical thinkers!!!

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» RE: Contratulations Alternet! Posted by: Joshua Holland

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The right to free speech does not include the right to be heard?
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Posted by: Mathew Trisencusean on Jun 12, 2009 9:52 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Truly bizare paradoxical thing to say.
I support your right to say it though.
Yes you have the right to boycott or protest what you hear.
Claiming the right to decide who and what others hear is called tyranny.

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» Nice straw man argument. Posted by: GuitarBill

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A callback to an older Alternet essay
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Posted by: maddy on Jun 12, 2009 10:14 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone remember that Alternet piece from a few weeks ago that laid out the differences between liberal morality (equity, social justice) and conservative morality (respect for authority, social order, in-group loyalty, and purity)? Personally, I was really pissed that the author claimed an equivalence between the value sets. To me, equity and social justice were higher levels of moral thinking.

May I point to this discussion as further proof? This "eliminationist" mindset illustrates the exact point I was trying to make--how dangerous (and deadly!!!) a "moral" worldview is when it's absolute in its need for hierarchy, authority, in-group-loyalty, and an obsession with purity.

In a nutshell, those are the "values" of these "eliminationists:" white men should be in absolute power--in who gets to rule, who gets to f***, who gets the ultimate say in family decisions. Anyone who challenges that, even by the simple fact of their existence, must be eliminated for the sake of "purity": liberals, gays, feminists, and people of color.

So, hey, Alternet, let's have this author debate that previous one. Whatcha say?

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» I concur. Posted by: lupuslefou

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You were born with all the brains
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Posted by: willymack on Jun 12, 2009 10:34 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You'll ever have. If you were born a dim bulb, that will dictate your actions in life. If you're NUTS, well, that's anybody's guess.
Remember this conversation?
Mom: Why did you do that?
You: Because Eddie said so.
Mom: So, if he told you to jump off a bridge, you'd do that too, huh?
Dear ol' Mom didn't say it in as many words, but she was giving you a lesson in logic and self-destructive behavior.
If you're bright enough, one lesson is usually sufficient. If not, your whole life will be a comedy of errors, or worse.
Boss Limbaugh and his ilk appeal to the basest instincts of dim bulbs and crazies, who have problems in discerning what REALITY is. That's how they make their money. The fact of their popularity doesn't speak well for our collective intelligence now, does it?

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The height of cynicism
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Posted by: Quasar on Jun 12, 2009 10:49 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I disagree. I do not believe that Coulter, Hannity and O'Reilly believe in what they say. But I do think that they have convinced themselves that what they are doing is right or necessary and because the noise they make stokes their egos, makes them feel needed and important, and lets not forget, it pays incredibly well. Because they live in this bubble, they have no regard for the consequences of their words.

Perhaps that's why the Eliminationists see them as liberals because they do not act as they themselves are so prepared to do - to take it to the next level.

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I'm laughing
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Posted by: Kym525 on Jun 12, 2009 11:05 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because while the rest of you are wringing your hands and debating about whose speech should be protected, I'm listening to a lot of people of color who are being strengthened to a further resolve to never go back. If we sit in the back of the bus now, it's because that's where all the room is. We're not going to live in fear--if anything, they'd better start worrying about US.

Nice to be white and I guess "liberal" and have the luxury of "understanding" that these 'poor widdle misguided racists' are suffering from a lack of hope and confusion. THEY ARE NOT!!! In case many of you were enjoying that latte at Starbucks, all of us--white, black, latino, asian, middle eastern--we've all been hit hard by this recession, and statistics show that it is both the black and the brown communities hit HARDEST by unemployment and uncertainty, but I guess we're not as inclined to go on these spectacular shooting rampages. Especially the way the cops these days have a nasty habit of shooting and killing minority suspects. I still don't understand why James Von Brunn is breathing. He did say he wanted to go out with a bang.

What the racists/supremacists/etc. ARE suffering from is the fact that this country is changing and they are no longer the group who could operate with impunity. These people cannot deal with the reality of a black president who represents everything they'd been taught--that blacks are lazy, uneducated, violent and immoral. Every minority--from Obama to Sotomayor is a clear repudiation of the lies they'd been told. They now have to compete with minorities for jobs, especially with affirmative action in place--something their own arrogance helped to bring about--and they can't hack it. And instead of behaving like adults and accepting the new reality, trying to build bridges with rest of America, they would rather regress into barbarians and beat up and/or kill innocent folks who just so happen to not look like them. It isn't that they CAN'T adjust--it's simply the laziness in them and the false ideology of innate white greatness...that everything was hunky dory when white folks ruled and those negroes knew "their place".

It's a drug stronger than crack.

None of these so-called supremacist dickwads will EVER take their fight to the Bronx, East Oakland, East L.A., Chicago's South Side or Watts (you know, all the places where us minorities are) and we all know that. It's easier to be brave with a group of one's closest pals spewing off the same rhetoric posing with an AK-47. I bet you anything if that loser in the picture and I were to meet, without his trusty gun of course, he'd want to talk,, and I might be inclined to pity his sorry ass.

One last thing: I'm really beginning to hate the faux liberals on Alternet who, when it comes to race, always show their true colors. You cannot stand for social justice and equality and use the "n-word" in the same sentence.

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» Americas Prisom Nation Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» RE: I'm laughing Posted by: left_witch

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Tired of the partisan fear-mongering on AlterNet
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Posted by: eidolon on Jun 12, 2009 1:22 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've seen probably a dozen articles about the threat posed by right-wing populism, etc. on AlterNet in the past few weeks. Frankly, I'm tired of the partisan fear-mongering. We can count on this drivel from corporate media whenever a right-winger is implicated in some heinous crime. But not only has AlterNet parroted this angle, it has now gone so far as to endorse the Department of Homeland Security's Orwellian report on "domestic terrorism." AlterNet is becoming the epitome of the gatekeeper left! The United States government is more of a threat to your health and safety than a few isolated conspiracist wackos. AlterNet is doing us a disservice by playing into government power grabs with this kind of reporting.

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» Americas Prison Nation Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars

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Tired of the partisan fear-mongering on AlterNet
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Posted by: eidolon on Jun 12, 2009 1:22 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've seen probably a dozen articles about the threat posed by right-wing populism, etc. on AlterNet in the past few weeks. Frankly, I'm tired of the partisan fear-mongering. We can count on this drivel from corporate media whenever a right-winger is implicated in some heinous crime. But not only has AlterNet parroted this angle, it has now gone so far as to endorse the Department of Homeland Security's Orwellian report on "domestic terrorism." AlterNet is becoming the epitome of the gatekeeper left! The United States government is more of a threat to your health and safety than a few isolated conspiracist wackos. AlterNet is doing us a disservice by playing into government power grabs with this kind of reporting.

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Are you people kidding?
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Posted by: pg on Jun 12, 2009 1:33 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You turn a tragic murder into a political hit on the right.

This was an anti-semite racist nut... not a right winger

"Them Jews aren't going to let me speak to him" , a quote from our president's pastor Jeremiah Wright.

Eight years of bashing "neocons" code word for "Jews"

All from the left

Fine Journalism you do there JH

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» Bush is a Jew now? Posted by: Defenestrator

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This propaganda
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Posted by: Juven on Jun 12, 2009 1:35 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
of turning anyone non status quo into an extremist has just about reached a point of ridiculousness. This is as bad the mainstream, as someone else pointed, out in that it is serving an agenda of the supposed progressive leftists who wish to live in a world of homogenized ideas and no debate.

Yes, many groups have caused violence but once we start blaming the ideas we are entering a 1984ish situation in which thoughts become crimes.

Remember that people are responsible for their actions and blaming ideas is akin to blaming guns, drugs, music, film, etc. for the actions of a person.

Libraries are full of ideas that may not be acceptable--perhaps we should do away with those... Could lead to extremism.

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alrady happening
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Posted by: Juven on Jun 12, 2009 1:45 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the Ministry of Truth is working overtime on eliminating ideas.

(Washington, DC) -- James von Brunn, the man accused of the Wednesday shooting of a guard at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum has vanished -- in a way.

"The Washington Post" has discovered nearly every sign of the man has disappeared from the Internet.

A Web site he'd hosted for years spewing hatred for all things Jewish can't be found today though it was easy to Google right after the shooting.

An online piece reportedly written by the alleged shooter titled "Obama Is Missing" and that questioned the citizenship of the President on FreeRepublic isn't there anymore.

Even a Wikipedia user page that the man had edited has been electronically scrubbed.

Some sites, like Wikipedia, say the racist or anti-Semitic remarks that had been posted violated user agreements.

Wikipedia spokesman Jay Walsh is quoted as saying that sort of content is a common reason for a user page or article to be edited or deleted.

He admits the offensive language might never have been discovered if not for the shooting.



It's been said nothing ever truly disappears from the Internet and for the most part that may be true.

Many references to von Brunn can still be found on archival sites like Wayback Machine.

(Copyright 2009 by Newsroom Solutions)

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It says much about a blog when the first comment on a thread about fascist hate has to be censored!!
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Posted by: yellow on Jun 12, 2009 2:36 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have pretty pathetic readers here.

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Ridiculous propaganda piece.
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Posted by: centure7 on Jun 12, 2009 3:16 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are just as many reports of left-wing terrorism, such as burning Hummers and genetics labs, than there are of right-wing terrorism. Then of course the biggest terrorist threat in the USA is our very own government, but Alternet would NEVER report on that because they are cowards.

One abortion doctor was killed so now it sounds like all right-wingers are KKK members who will go on rampage killing sprees? Get fucking real the incident was as isolated as the nuts who go around burning Hummers and always will be. Most right-wingers are not racists. That is a propaganda lie... just try and prove it to be true and anybody can see it is a lie.

Then there is the brewing discontent with government, but that has nothing to do with terrorism. If right-wing extremists try some kind of coup that is not terrorism that is rebellion. Terrorism is a tactic that even most right-wing *extremists* despise. Only the clinically insane nutballs want it. And for Alternet to go around gloating the fact that an abortion doctor was killed so they can throw a barb at the right is disgusting. A good terrorism piece would mention all the terror activities of our very own government.

The once-every-ten-years murder of an abortion doctor and burning down of a genetics lab by left-wing extremists is nothing compared to the daily crimes of our own government.

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It's neither right nor left.
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Posted by: countingdaisies on Jun 12, 2009 3:24 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The government itself is to blame for civil unrest. When it fails to represent the majority, we no longer feel compelled to abide by its rules.

The majority is against the Iraq war and our general intrusion into the Middle East. The majority wants to put an end to illegal immigration. The majority sees no reason for our continuous support of Israel. The majority wants single payor healthcare. The majority wants the war on drugs to cease. The majority wants to get rid of lobbyists. Etc., etc., etc. Basically, the majority feels it is not being represented.

The only way to correct this is to allow a popular vote. If all the votes were counted, this would reflect a true majority.

We are fed up with being lied to, censored and referred to as terrorists for our thoughts.

Whether right or wrong in the eyes of the law, why can't you understand the reasons behind these two acts?

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Benny Waters
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Posted by: Benwa on Jun 12, 2009 5:53 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of these right wing crackpots are attenion seekers. Net-Nazis one and all. Real revolutionaries wouldnt use such stooge tactics. I think that the SPLC and other Jewish organizations fund these groups to keep the boogie man ever present and in the media to be the foils for their underhanded media campaigns.

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Understand it?
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Posted by: Jeanne on Jun 12, 2009 6:53 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No, I don't choose to spend a moment to understand these people. What I am wondering about is the deafening silence from their spiritual leaders. Where is the condemnation from the likes of Pat Robertson, the Dobson fool, and others whose names I refuse to remember? Somehow we gloss over the religious underpinnings of many of these terrorists' belief systems. They are fundamentally (no pun intended) christian and often devoutly (no oxymoron intended) so. Where is the Christian right? Why is no one saying these acts doom their perpetrators to their hell?

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» RE: Understand it? Posted by: Paxmana1

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Do your own part to fight the hate
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Posted by: LeonBNJ on Jun 12, 2009 8:10 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and tell those that speak using stereotypes, negatively or extemely against women, Blacks, immigrants, Jews and so on that your offended by such speech. Just don't ignore, not say anything just to get along. If they continue to offend, then stay away from them. This must also be expressed to the broadcast extremeists, like Rush, O' and their ilk.

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Missing the point
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Posted by: Dave Nalle on Jun 12, 2009 9:16 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The subject of your interview appears not to have researched his subject very well, because if he had he would know that it is a near universal characteristic of these "right wing extremists" that they disavow any association with the political right or the Republican party and are often even more hostile to the mainstream political right than to the left. In fact, some of them come from a left-wing bacground, but still end up in the same hate-based midset. They really are outside the political mainstream and trying to associate them with the political right is just a cheap smear tactic. It's rather like saying that all liberals are ecoterrorists because the Unabomber was a liberal.

In fact, in the case of the attack on the Holocaust Museum, the elderly attacker specifically said he was driven to his acts by his hatred of the political right and the Republicans and Bush. How does that factor in to this theory?

Dave

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» who's missing the point... Posted by: left_witch
» RE: who's missing the point... Posted by: Dave Nalle
» RE: who's missing the point... Posted by: left_witch

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rebellion against big government is what our Revolution was about
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Posted by: johnwinthrop on Jun 13, 2009 4:19 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
America started and had its best days as a community suspicious of central federal govt and of govt power in general-states, courts, central banks and military.

Even up to the Civil War we relied on state militias to coalesce into a national army. Now however we are entranced by Big Govt-its welfare, its bailouts, its arrogant assumption that it, not the people in local communities, rule over the people who built this nation.

That realization that Obama has perfected the tyranny that FDR, LBJ, Nixon, Reagan, Bush I and II and Clinton began is what drives the increase in what is termed "extreme" right wing groups but what are really normal Americans asking for their normal rights back which had been stolen by Lincoln and the Reconstructionists, and then continued by the TR, Wilson, Fed - Reserve owned gang in the 20 and 21 century.

Fighting against globalization and unilateral, undeclared wars, refusing to accept currency that has no value is "extreme"?

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In A Well Regulated Militia
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Posted by: smilingeyes05 on Jun 14, 2009 3:51 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some read the second amendment differently. Our founding fathers were afraid of an all powerful federal government. And the provided the arming of citizens in the state military. There are some who still believe in the power of the gun. I believe in the power of non-violence.

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There's just too many people here that are to stupid to understand anything but a conspiracy theory!
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Posted by: yellow on Jun 15, 2009 3:01 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The individuals who fit this discription should be obvious. They are pathetic haters. The educated people with something to say should also be quite evident.

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Perfect example
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Posted by: dissentisgood on Jun 15, 2009 5:56 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Today the leader of a mintue-man style anti-immigrant group was arrested for murdering a 9 year old girl and her father, in Arizona. She broke into their house planning to rob them and then killed them both and injured the mom, do we still need to be convinced of the danger of white nationalist people like the many anti-immigrant extremists that post their comments here? So far since 9/11 DHS has not turned up a soul that mattered engaged in terrorism, yet there have been 4 murders by white supremacists in the past 2 weeks, what's really going on here?

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Neiwert is the...
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Posted by: bobtr900 on Jun 19, 2009 7:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...go to guy who has studied hate groups and hate peoples from Scalia to O'Reilly, Hannity et.al.

I have been reading his stuff for the past six years. Neiwert forgot to mention the hate coming from these fundie Christian religions aligned with the GOP. They are so often at the root of all of this hate.

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Alternet Comments:

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» yes, oh great encinoM, Posted by: Juven
» RE: yes, oh great encinoM, Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: yes, oh great encinoM, Posted by: EncinoM
» hate crime info is outdated Posted by: left_witch

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Tye political right as public-health threat
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Posted by: Perry Logan on Jun 12, 2009 3:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I regard the political right in America as a public-health problem, pure and simple.

Everything about the right--their love of guns, war, torture, major corporations; their neglect of infrastructure and government regulation, etc.--can be considered a threat to the public health. Our lives are shorter because of right-wing policies. People die everry day because of the right.

Their brief period (2000-2006) of hegemeny has well-nigh destroyed the Republic.

The battle between left and right is no longer a political situation. The right pose a palpable threat to the national health. We must get these people out of our country by some non-violent means.

It's probably no use talking to these people. Recent studies show that the brains of right-wingers don't even function properly. I know it sounds like a joke, but it's true:

Study finds left-wing brain, right-wing brain.
Denise Gellene, LA Times

There you go. There is no point in reasoning with people whose brains don't even work. We can start by confiscating their guns.

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» RE: Eliminationist mindset Posted by: solrev
» Gotta love it! Posted by: photon's feather
» What other country would have them? Posted by: grindermonkey

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The lies we tell ourselves today for comfort
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Posted by: weathered on Jun 12, 2009 3:48 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
because we fear the consequences, will in time inflict the most discomfort.

If you believe the guy at the Museum was a aberration, a one-off you'll have done a disservice to yourself and your readers.

Again, humility eludes us, denial becomes us and trouble follows us.
For some this simple, but essential spiritual lesson is just too hard to grasp - and it shows, despite the contortions to prove otherwise.

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» Americas Prisom Nation Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars

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It's time to take away their bullhorns
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Posted by: hagwind on Jun 12, 2009 4:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
David Neiwert:
Eliminationist rhetoric has the effect of creating permission for people to act. We can't turn away from that.

This interview does an excellent job of exploring why "eliminationist" rhetoric is dangerous. I also appreciate its treatment of the First Amendment issues. Speech is protected from government interference because it's important -- because it can make a difference. Which means we can't (or shouldn't), Patriot Act to the contrary, shut down free speech because it's threatening the status quo. That's what it's supposed to do. But supporting free speech, and opposing censorship, doesn't mean letting dangerous BS go unopposed.

Neiwert is right: no one has a God-given or constitutional right to a bullhorn that can blare his or her bile out to millions of people every day. As Liebling said, "Freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one" -- but those who own the presses, and the bullhorns, can be pressured the way most pressuring is done in this society: economically.

When hate-filled rhetoric inspires murder, it's tragic, but this unrelenting spewing of hate is dangerous in other ways too. It stifles rational thought and discussion of issues. You can't go to any major newspaper's website without finding post after post of this bilge in the comments sections. It's one reason the "political climate" in this country is so dismal, and with every passing year it gets harder to remember that it was ever any better.

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» RE: It's time to take away their bullhorns Posted by: Mathew Trisencusean
» Do you know what illogic is? Posted by: Mathew Trisencusean
» Thanks, Quannah! Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Thanks, Quannah! Posted by: Quannah
» To the trolls here... Posted by: Quannah
» RE: To the trolls here... Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: To the trolls here... Posted by: hagwind

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Eliminationists
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Posted by: Mathew Trisencusean on Jun 12, 2009 4:49 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Are you going to wipe all commentary to this article like you did to Chip Berlets article from yesterday Alternet?
Have you got any explanation why we can copy it, email it but not comment on it?
Or are you just exercising your right to your own form of eliminationism?
Your right about one thing in this article.
The link between eliminationists and facsism is clear.

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» RE: liminationists Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: liminationists Posted by: Mathew Trisencusean
» RE: liminationists Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: liminationists Posted by: Mathew Trisencusean
» RE: liminationists Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: liminationists Posted by: Mathew Trisencusean
» Your logic is flawed. Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: liminationists Posted by: Shey
» RE: liminationists Posted by: Gravitas
» RE: liminationists Posted by: Joshua Holland
Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.

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What to call them: "pretend Jews"? Zionists? Beguilers? Terrorist Jews?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: whole2th on Jun 12, 2009 4:50 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Religious Jews are good human beings as are religious Moslems, religious Christians, Bahai, Hindus, etc. who follow core creeds of conduct such as "do unto others".

Certain subsets of each religion have proven to be dangerous to humanity and freedom. There's a subset of Jews who violate the core creed of "do unto others, and who could not possibly be religious Jews, IMO. These "Pretend Jews" use real Jews like terrorist Islamics would put their women and children on a tank and bark "anti-Semitic" when evidence reveals their deceptive involvments in "false flags" operations. Humanity must know these agents of change for the monsters they are.

Pretend Jews (false Jews, Zionists) attacked the USS Liberty in 1967 and got away with it. Pretend Jews collaborated with Hitler in prosecuting the holocaust and killing millions of real Jews. Pretend Jews were involved in the Lavon Affair. And, most notably in this post-9/11 hell-bent rush to fascism based on BIG LIES OF 9/11, pretend Jews were key co-conspirators to pull off 9/11.

Whenever evidence surfaces to implicate the beguiling terrorist pretend Jews, pretend Jews invoke (bark out) the "anti-Semitic" label which mostly has worked to shut down the listening of masses who wish no harm to Jews (as I do not wish harm to real Jews).
I admire and respect real Jews. Real Jews need protection from the harms inflicted on the world by pretend Jews just as much as real Islamics need protection from radical Islamics, and good Italians need to be distinguished from Mafia.

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» RE: Quite apt... Posted by: lightwing1

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» RE: Amazing Posted by: chariotdrvr14
» Prophit is a liar Posted by: Shey

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The Crazies are Having a Picnic
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Jun 12, 2009 5:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Something to think about:

If there ever is another Tim McVeigh-styled domestic attack against our government; if the old fashioned tradition of assassinating liberal politicians even again comes back into vogue, the Rush Limbaughs, the Sean Hannity's the Bill O'Riellys, the Ann Coulters, the Michael Weiners, the Michael Reagans, the Glenn Becks - all of them - will have blood on their foolish, clueless hands.

On that happy note....

Lenny Bruce's House

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

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» RE: The Crazies are Having a Picnic Posted by: Prairie Waif
» What do you mean, IF? Posted by: Centavo
» Prophit is a mental case Posted by: Shey
» I'm sure you did. Posted by: Shey

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Otto
[Report this comment]
Posted by: otto on Jun 12, 2009 5:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The ideal of everybody speaking out and making a change is great, but it only happens a little bit at a time. One weakness for the left (if we're really more sympathetic and open) is that we aren't quite as sure of ourselves...we don't want to judge or condemn someone unless we're certain. Things for the other side are generally either black or white, no gray. It's hard to go at things as forcibly from this point of view, but I think it's the right point of view...it's just hard to live it.

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» RE: Otto Posted by: luzmejor
» RE: Otto Posted by: otto
» RE: Otto Posted by: pomes

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Eliminationists? Nah...they're really "Puritans"
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Posted by: AnIndependentThinker on Jun 12, 2009 5:29 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Right-wing radical zealots are not really eliminationists; in fact, they're more or less like the Puritans of the 1600s. "Individual differences were frowned upon...and they were expected to live by a rigid moral code." (Source - Salem Witch Trials)

The dirty little secret, though, is that Puritans (much like the "eliminationists" of today) had no moral respect for their human counterparts. Their obcession with displaced religion (like other radical fundamentalist terrorists)both then, and now, has created an unstable environment of irrational thinking, behavior, and insane philosophies and imagined conspiracies.

The largest problem that I forsee and have forseen for some time now is the stranglehold that the religious-rightwing has on governmental entities. For example, if we truly want to separate church and state to maintain a civil country where we can exercise such religious or non-religious freedoms, then we must remove the voting booths from local churches and other religious facilities. Voting is a civil process that should never have and needs to be COMPLETELY removed from religious institutions. We have public schools, fire stations, community centers, and the like where citizens should be able to vote. That's a start to fix this growing radical fundamentalistic terrorist virus.

Next, start holding news network sponsors accountable for shows that they sponsor. When radical fundamentalist leaders (and yes -- that's what people like Bill O'Really? and windbag Limbaugh are)start slandering average citizens and create a posse comitatus breeding ground for crazed evangelist murderers, then they need to be held accountable for their motivation to incite others to undesirable actions. There will be some, who will argue that Bill'O only called out one or two people and stated his opinion; but that's not the case when it's drilled into the mentally-warped brains of radical fundamentalists day in and day out -- and that is exactly what he and others like him have done. Hold 'em accountable. Hold sponsors accountable. Stop buying products and/or services of those companies that support hate rants.

Hatred in America is alive and well. It is breed by not-so-christian christians, who belong to zealot sleeper cells in this nation. There is indeed an "enemy within," but it's not the sane citizens of this country that we must worry about -- it's the ones who follow the radical rightwing group of religiousity. That's not Christian - that's pure evil...Modern-Day Puritans.

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» And no genitals, so no sex! n//m Posted by: countingdaisies

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stress and anxiety about the future makes people...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ellie on Jun 12, 2009 5:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
act out in sometimes dangerous ways...remove the social safety nets and everyone is capable of harming others... it's called anger and frustration with the feelings of no way out but through... when you feel that there is nothing left to loose in your society you feel alone, isolated and free to use your life to take out as many oppressors as you can(false consciousness)... labeled 'insurgents'...

many individuals have used themselves as human sacrifices without formal and structured organizations to back them up over the years... the 'lone gunman theory'...

don't want to limit the first amendment, but love the idea of pulling advertising $$ from those that fan the flames of fear and hate... you want to mouth off, use your own $$ to do it...

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Historical Precedence made Napolitanos memo Legit
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Jun 12, 2009 5:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Come on we have had numerous Right Wing Domestic terrorist acts committed fro Decades. Planned parenthood bombings, MD Assasinations, Atlanta Olympics, OK City, Unibomber....She had every right to claim there could be another uptick in these radical fringes of our society- they have a long history of violence and are constantly writing about their intentions on the Internet.
This is why those Incitors of hate and Fear with radio, TV or Political Office should be held Legally responsible for their Rhetoric. it's not as though this is a new phenomena.They KNOW exactly who they are provoking and inspiring. Prehaps if they could prove they had a lobotomy or had some form of Dementia people lik BillO and Michelle Bachmann could plead ignorance- but they can't.
Who should really be held liable are the Broadcasting Corps who hire them as their employee, give them a national platform (exposure) and fail to even formulate a disclaimer that the 'views and opinions expressed are not necessarily the views of this station'. As for people like Bachmann, et al they are Employees of the US, therefore they are required to not only serve & protect US, but represent US to the nation and the World. When Bachmann calls for people to become 'Armed and Dangerous'- it is a Clear Derelicition of Duty. when she claims to be a 'correspondant behind enemy lines' she is confessing to serving some other body or entity instead of the US House of Representatives as a public servant of the people of MN and the US- Treason.
I see no difference in basic underlying ideology or overt and covert tactics between these Domestic terrorists and others like AQ, Taliban, Hamas, hezzbolah...By Words and Deeds ,They are Terrorist and Enemy combants of the USA

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» Unibomber Posted by: Juven
» RE: Unibomber Posted by: Shey
» no. Posted by: Juven
» I would say Posted by: Juven

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eliminationists
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Posted by: Mathew Trisencusean on Jun 12, 2009 5:58 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The eliminationists are'nt only "right wing radicals".
Last year Hillary gave a speech about her willingness to "obliterate" Iran.
Obama calls bombing innocent civillians in Afghanistan and Pakistan the "good war"
Maybe the loonies who commited these two recent murders just used the leaders of the free world as role models.

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» RE: eliminationists Posted by: pomes
» RE: eliminationists Posted by: pomes
» exactly Posted by: Juven
» here here Posted by: Juven

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SECESSION!! The only answer
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Posted by: rugger on Jun 12, 2009 6:04 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Give the right wing whackos Dumbfuckistan (the south) and various parts of Kansas. We'll keep the coasts, NE and NW.

Problem solved!

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» Where would you buy grits? Posted by: grindermonkey
» Stella Bella here, in Lawrence, Kansas Posted by: Ms. DuFontagne
» RE: SECESSION!! The only answer Posted by: johnthetreehugger
» RE: SECESSION!! The only answer Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» Excuse me? Posted by: mcubed
» Dumbfuckistan! ROTFLMAO! Posted by: GuitarBill
» wow Posted by: Juven
» RE: wow Posted by: Shey
» left and right = fascist Posted by: Juven

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Goldhagen's not credible!
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Posted by: Parcival01 on Jun 12, 2009 6:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article/interview is well done, EXCEPT that the author/interviewee refers to Daniel Goldhagen as having some credibility. (Yeah, he was sheepish about it, but still). Goldhagen has as much credibility as Coulter to me.

That being said, I was just with a conservative family from California in Washington, DC. While they were nice people, they did convince me that some people we WON'T change. No matter how we reason with them, if people have the attitude that anyone who challenges their 4th grade history book's view on US history "hates America," to them, any reasoning is a threat, another manifestation of hating America!

To them, "revisionist history" is saying something they didn't want to hear.

So first, the reasoning needs to start much earlier. Like replace that 4th grade US history book with something valid, not founding-fathers-as-Disney-characters.

Next we need far, far more emphasis on critical thinking in education. Not rote memorization. Not, whatever makes teacher feel good about himself. But analysis, challenge.

Sure, there'll still be a loon or two out there. But at least Coulter, o'lielly and the like won't have an audience. And that's clearly a step in the right direction!

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» Excellently put! Posted by: zooeyhall
» This is the best comment yet!! Posted by: lupuslefou

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Missing a big point
[Report this comment]
Posted by: kad on Jun 12, 2009 6:18 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article misses a big point, there is a reason these people are willing to buy into this rhetoric. It has nothing to do with religious fanaticism, it has to do with loss of hope. These people have had there hope stripped away. Their jobs lost and sent over seas, their way of life ended, and no one offered anything for them to hope for. They feel they have nothing left to lose, and the only recourse is revolution. If you are a rural/ small town white person no one in power, least of all the liberal elite, cares about you. Sad to say, but the current administration is not helping matters at all. Want to stop the "eliminationists", give them something better to hope for.

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» So very true! Posted by: frantic1971
» False Posted by: LeaderofMen
» RE: False Posted by: WyrdSister
» "Extremist solutions"?? Posted by: Shey

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A finger pointing clusterfuck
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Posted by: weathered on Jun 12, 2009 6:37 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
will morph and contort until a Leader of honor and integrity steps-up.

By the company Obama keeps that kind of leadership won't happen, the oval office Loves their Lies more than their very selfish agenda.

A stand up leader doesn't need an Axelrod or a Rove, an Emanuel or a photo-op, they're in the business of public service, as a steward of trust not public relations.

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The Left shaping the debate like Fox News
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Posted by: dover23 on Jun 12, 2009 6:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Disagree with their "correct" ideology and you're defending murderers.

Nice going Josh, soon enough you'll be in position to lick Taibbi's boots.

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» Taibbi doesn't wear boots... Posted by: Tim Brown

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Not just a 'moral' imperitive, a RELIGIOUS one
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Posted by: LeaderofMen on Jun 12, 2009 6:50 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Without exception, these domestic terrorists are not only politically motivated, they are drawn to CHRISTIANITY and the message that they are supreme and no one else is.

Do NOT forget that important element with respect to neocons, Republicans, conservative talk show hosts, and domestic terrorists. Christianity is the 'moral' foundation they draw upon whenever they say or do anything.

Prove me wrong.

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» I'm proving you wrong Posted by: BCcovers

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The sad truth.........
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Jun 12, 2009 6:52 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is that even if you eliminated all of the people/groups (African-Americans, Latinos, Asians) they think are causing all of their problems, these people will still be at the bottom! Simply because they are "white" doesn't mean that all of a sudden they are going to have an automatic pass into the society of the rich and powerful whites that are controlling the whole thing!

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» RE: The sad truth......... Posted by: johnwinthrop

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The rightwing radicals would be far fewer if only the Democrats would
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Posted by: maxpayne on Jun 12, 2009 7:25 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
be more populist progressive rather than GOP-lite elitist for a change. Forget about the rightwing radicals. Obama, Reid, Pelosi, etc ... are too busy kissing up to Wall $treet, Big Military, Big Religion, etc ... to understand. The rightwing radicals are the symptom of a lack of a populist progressive leadership. Obama is no FDR, JFK, or even LBJ or Carter.

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From a political standpoint...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: BCcovers on Jun 12, 2009 7:35 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The homegrown, Nazi terrorists share a great deal in terms of geopolitical views as Islamic terrorists around the globe. From their hatred of Jews, to their beliefs that Socialism is the future system of the world (with a strong, nationalistic/religious element as well), and the manner in which they execute their terror. These connecitons and similiarities of mind-sets mst not be overlooked and should be heeded by our government.

An Al-Quada terrorist might find easy allies in the Aryan Nation as they both have similiar views and objectives. If one simply peruses these nut-job white-power websites, you won't have to look for long to find pro-palenstinian sentiments and, of course a healthy dose of anti-semetism (I've even seen alternet articles linked on message boards!). Like Osama, they believe that the root of problems within America is the Zionist control of our government. A lone wacko like this guy is a warning and a wake up call to all of America. We not only have to be ready for more henious acts like this one, but we also have to be on the lookout for international cooperation from Islamic-fascists like Al-Quada. Throughout history there has been a long and storied connection between the islamic world and national socialism; let's not let history repeat itself.

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One fact the Media seems to have overlooked
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Posted by: Fempatriot on Jun 12, 2009 7:39 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is that although there are millions of people who are fed up with being jerked around by some powerful group such as Israel or China or the Globalists--there are only a few who are radical enough or crazy enough to act out their anger and frustration in violence. Most of us complain, but aside from writing letters to Congresspersons (who never seem to give a damn because they're bought by some group) or posting on a few web sites independent enough to let us have our say--the majority of us do not act out in violence. And just because we object to something we perceive as an injustice doesn't mean that we're hate-filled or crazy--it just means that we've got enough sense to recognize when our basic human rights are being trampled. As Americans, we are told that the individual has the right to LIFE, LIBERTY, and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS*. Chew on that and then tell me there aren't people out there aplenty who would deny us these basics of existence.
*"pursuit of happiness" should mean to be able to live life as best you can with what you have and can do.

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Out of 300 million people, of course a few nutsacks are going to take matters into their own hands!
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Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Jun 12, 2009 8:29 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
BTW, how the hell can Obama initiate "change" by recycling these proven Zionists, Bilderbergers, CFRs, Trilaterals, NeoCons, and other treasonous filth, into his "new" administration???

I pray that Obama is not another shill for the NWO/globalists who are trying to usher in a one-world dictatorship!

(The election seemed so staged, pitting senile curmudgeon McCain + young dingbat Palin vs. smooth, polished Obama & Biden!!! The powers that be clearly fostered an Obama/Biden victory! Why???)

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Paul Krugman wrote a fairly similar column today
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Posted by: Defenestrator on Jun 12, 2009 9:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Much less detailed, but worth reading:
The Big Hate

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Contratulations Alternet!
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Posted by: Gravitas on Jun 12, 2009 9:42 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Subtly seems to be doing the trick. You FINALLY learned that blatant attacks with headlines blaring the "CT" words get you no where. A far more subtle approach to establish connections with these extremist nuts and anyone who questions the motives of government seems to be working:

"All of these men thought they were serving a higher moral purpose, that is, defending their country from an insidious "enemy within""

So if we too feel that there ARE enemies within with enormous power and control, should we also feel emotionally unbalanced? Are we in the same league as those receiving messages from space aliens via tuna fish cans at the supermarket? Will our friends associate us with these gun toting lunatics? Maybe we had better back off, turn our thoughts to bigger problems like whether or not digital t.v. really will give us higher definition.

This article was just a far more sophisticated way of suggesting that believing in any type of "conspiracy" is very dangerous! After a long line of more obvious articles with the same objective. So I won't even go into agent provocateurs. Yes, nuts happen. The deaths were tragic no matter who was ultimately behind them. But we don't turn our backs on environmentalists just because of Earth Firsters. Lets not paint anything with a broad brush but keep our minds open. CT can also stand for critical thinkers!!!

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» RE: Contratulations Alternet! Posted by: Joshua Holland

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The right to free speech does not include the right to be heard?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Mathew Trisencusean on Jun 12, 2009 9:52 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Truly bizare paradoxical thing to say.
I support your right to say it though.
Yes you have the right to boycott or protest what you hear.
Claiming the right to decide who and what others hear is called tyranny.

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» Nice straw man argument. Posted by: GuitarBill

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A callback to an older Alternet essay
[Report this comment]
Posted by: maddy on Jun 12, 2009 10:14 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone remember that Alternet piece from a few weeks ago that laid out the differences between liberal morality (equity, social justice) and conservative morality (respect for authority, social order, in-group loyalty, and purity)? Personally, I was really pissed that the author claimed an equivalence between the value sets. To me, equity and social justice were higher levels of moral thinking.

May I point to this discussion as further proof? This "eliminationist" mindset illustrates the exact point I was trying to make--how dangerous (and deadly!!!) a "moral" worldview is when it's absolute in its need for hierarchy, authority, in-group-loyalty, and an obsession with purity.

In a nutshell, those are the "values" of these "eliminationists:" white men should be in absolute power--in who gets to rule, who gets to f***, who gets the ultimate say in family decisions. Anyone who challenges that, even by the simple fact of their existence, must be eliminated for the sake of "purity": liberals, gays, feminists, and people of color.

So, hey, Alternet, let's have this author debate that previous one. Whatcha say?

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» I concur. Posted by: lupuslefou

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You were born with all the brains
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Posted by: willymack on Jun 12, 2009 10:34 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You'll ever have. If you were born a dim bulb, that will dictate your actions in life. If you're NUTS, well, that's anybody's guess.
Remember this conversation?
Mom: Why did you do that?
You: Because Eddie said so.
Mom: So, if he told you to jump off a bridge, you'd do that too, huh?
Dear ol' Mom didn't say it in as many words, but she was giving you a lesson in logic and self-destructive behavior.
If you're bright enough, one lesson is usually sufficient. If not, your whole life will be a comedy of errors, or worse.
Boss Limbaugh and his ilk appeal to the basest instincts of dim bulbs and crazies, who have problems in discerning what REALITY is. That's how they make their money. The fact of their popularity doesn't speak well for our collective intelligence now, does it?

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The height of cynicism
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Posted by: Quasar on Jun 12, 2009 10:49 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I disagree. I do not believe that Coulter, Hannity and O'Reilly believe in what they say. But I do think that they have convinced themselves that what they are doing is right or necessary and because the noise they make stokes their egos, makes them feel needed and important, and lets not forget, it pays incredibly well. Because they live in this bubble, they have no regard for the consequences of their words.

Perhaps that's why the Eliminationists see them as liberals because they do not act as they themselves are so prepared to do - to take it to the next level.

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I'm laughing
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Kym525 on Jun 12, 2009 11:05 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because while the rest of you are wringing your hands and debating about whose speech should be protected, I'm listening to a lot of people of color who are being strengthened to a further resolve to never go back. If we sit in the back of the bus now, it's because that's where all the room is. We're not going to live in fear--if anything, they'd better start worrying about US.

Nice to be white and I guess "liberal" and have the luxury of "understanding" that these 'poor widdle misguided racists' are suffering from a lack of hope and confusion. THEY ARE NOT!!! In case many of you were enjoying that latte at Starbucks, all of us--white, black, latino, asian, middle eastern--we've all been hit hard by this recession, and statistics show that it is both the black and the brown communities hit HARDEST by unemployment and uncertainty, but I guess we're not as inclined to go on these spectacular shooting rampages. Especially the way the cops these days have a nasty habit of shooting and killing minority suspects. I still don't understand why James Von Brunn is breathing. He did say he wanted to go out with a bang.

What the racists/supremacists/etc. ARE suffering from is the fact that this country is changing and they are no longer the group who could operate with impunity. These people cannot deal with the reality of a black president who represents everything they'd been taught--that blacks are lazy, uneducated, violent and immoral. Every minority--from Obama to Sotomayor is a clear repudiation of the lies they'd been told. They now have to compete with minorities for jobs, especially with affirmative action in place--something their own arrogance helped to bring about--and they can't hack it. And instead of behaving like adults and accepting the new reality, trying to build bridges with rest of America, they would rather regress into barbarians and beat up and/or kill innocent folks who just so happen to not look like them. It isn't that they CAN'T adjust--it's simply the laziness in them and the false ideology of innate white greatness...that everything was hunky dory when white folks ruled and those negroes knew "their place".

It's a drug stronger than crack.

None of these so-called supremacist dickwads will EVER take their fight to the Bronx, East Oakland, East L.A., Chicago's South Side or Watts (you know, all the places where us minorities are) and we all know that. It's easier to be brave with a group of one's closest pals spewing off the same rhetoric posing with an AK-47. I bet you anything if that loser in the picture and I were to meet, without his trusty gun of course, he'd want to talk,, and I might be inclined to pity his sorry ass.

One last thing: I'm really beginning to hate the faux liberals on Alternet who, when it comes to race, always show their true colors. You cannot stand for social justice and equality and use the "n-word" in the same sentence.

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» Americas Prisom Nation Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» RE: I'm laughing Posted by: left_witch

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Tired of the partisan fear-mongering on AlterNet
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Posted by: eidolon on Jun 12, 2009 1:22 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've seen probably a dozen articles about the threat posed by right-wing populism, etc. on AlterNet in the past few weeks. Frankly, I'm tired of the partisan fear-mongering. We can count on this drivel from corporate media whenever a right-winger is implicated in some heinous crime. But not only has AlterNet parroted this angle, it has now gone so far as to endorse the Department of Homeland Security's Orwellian report on "domestic terrorism." AlterNet is becoming the epitome of the gatekeeper left! The United States government is more of a threat to your health and safety than a few isolated conspiracist wackos. AlterNet is doing us a disservice by playing into government power grabs with this kind of reporting.

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» Americas Prison Nation Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars

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Tired of the partisan fear-mongering on AlterNet
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Posted by: eidolon on Jun 12, 2009 1:22 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've seen probably a dozen articles about the threat posed by right-wing populism, etc. on AlterNet in the past few weeks. Frankly, I'm tired of the partisan fear-mongering. We can count on this drivel from corporate media whenever a right-winger is implicated in some heinous crime. But not only has AlterNet parroted this angle, it has now gone so far as to endorse the Department of Homeland Security's Orwellian report on "domestic terrorism." AlterNet is becoming the epitome of the gatekeeper left! The United States government is more of a threat to your health and safety than a few isolated conspiracist wackos. AlterNet is doing us a disservice by playing into government power grabs with this kind of reporting.

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Are you people kidding?
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Posted by: pg on Jun 12, 2009 1:33 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You turn a tragic murder into a political hit on the right.

This was an anti-semite racist nut... not a right winger

"Them Jews aren't going to let me speak to him" , a quote from our president's pastor Jeremiah Wright.

Eight years of bashing "neocons" code word for "Jews"

All from the left

Fine Journalism you do there JH

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» Bush is a Jew now? Posted by: Defenestrator

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This propaganda
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Posted by: Juven on Jun 12, 2009 1:35 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
of turning anyone non status quo into an extremist has just about reached a point of ridiculousness. This is as bad the mainstream, as someone else pointed, out in that it is serving an agenda of the supposed progressive leftists who wish to live in a world of homogenized ideas and no debate.

Yes, many groups have caused violence but once we start blaming the ideas we are entering a 1984ish situation in which thoughts become crimes.

Remember that people are responsible for their actions and blaming ideas is akin to blaming guns, drugs, music, film, etc. for the actions of a person.

Libraries are full of ideas that may not be acceptable--perhaps we should do away with those... Could lead to extremism.

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alrady happening
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Posted by: Juven on Jun 12, 2009 1:45 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the Ministry of Truth is working overtime on eliminating ideas.

(Washington, DC) -- James von Brunn, the man accused of the Wednesday shooting of a guard at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum has vanished -- in a way.

"The Washington Post" has discovered nearly every sign of the man has disappeared from the Internet.

A Web site he'd hosted for years spewing hatred for all things Jewish can't be found today though it was easy to Google right after the shooting.

An online piece reportedly written by the alleged shooter titled "Obama Is Missing" and that questioned the citizenship of the President on FreeRepublic isn't there anymore.

Even a Wikipedia user page that the man had edited has been electronically scrubbed.

Some sites, like Wikipedia, say the racist or anti-Semitic remarks that had been posted violated user agreements.

Wikipedia spokesman Jay Walsh is quoted as saying that sort of content is a common reason for a user page or article to be edited or deleted.

He admits the offensive language might never have been discovered if not for the shooting.



It's been said nothing ever truly disappears from the Internet and for the most part that may be true.

Many references to von Brunn can still be found on archival sites like Wayback Machine.

(Copyright 2009 by Newsroom Solutions)

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It says much about a blog when the first comment on a thread about fascist hate has to be censored!!
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Posted by: yellow on Jun 12, 2009 2:36 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have pretty pathetic readers here.

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Ridiculous propaganda piece.
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Posted by: centure7 on Jun 12, 2009 3:16 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are just as many reports of left-wing terrorism, such as burning Hummers and genetics labs, than there are of right-wing terrorism. Then of course the biggest terrorist threat in the USA is our very own government, but Alternet would NEVER report on that because they are cowards.

One abortion doctor was killed so now it sounds like all right-wingers are KKK members who will go on rampage killing sprees? Get fucking real the incident was as isolated as the nuts who go around burning Hummers and always will be. Most right-wingers are not racists. That is a propaganda lie... just try and prove it to be true and anybody can see it is a lie.

Then there is the brewing discontent with government, but that has nothing to do with terrorism. If right-wing extremists try some kind of coup that is not terrorism that is rebellion. Terrorism is a tactic that even most right-wing *extremists* despise. Only the clinically insane nutballs want it. And for Alternet to go around gloating the fact that an abortion doctor was killed so they can throw a barb at the right is disgusting. A good terrorism piece would mention all the terror activities of our very own government.

The once-every-ten-years murder of an abortion doctor and burning down of a genetics lab by left-wing extremists is nothing compared to the daily crimes of our own government.

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It's neither right nor left.
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Posted by: countingdaisies on Jun 12, 2009 3:24 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The government itself is to blame for civil unrest. When it fails to represent the majority, we no longer feel compelled to abide by its rules.

The majority is against the Iraq war and our general intrusion into the Middle East. The majority wants to put an end to illegal immigration. The majority sees no reason for our continuous support of Israel. The majority wants single payor healthcare. The majority wants the war on drugs to cease. The majority wants to get rid of lobbyists. Etc., etc., etc. Basically, the majority feels it is not being represented.

The only way to correct this is to allow a popular vote. If all the votes were counted, this would reflect a true majority.

We are fed up with being lied to, censored and referred to as terrorists for our thoughts.

Whether right or wrong in the eyes of the law, why can't you understand the reasons behind these two acts?

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Benny Waters
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Posted by: Benwa on Jun 12, 2009 5:53 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of these right wing crackpots are attenion seekers. Net-Nazis one and all. Real revolutionaries wouldnt use such stooge tactics. I think that the SPLC and other Jewish organizations fund these groups to keep the boogie man ever present and in the media to be the foils for their underhanded media campaigns.

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Understand it?
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Posted by: Jeanne on Jun 12, 2009 6:53 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No, I don't choose to spend a moment to understand these people. What I am wondering about is the deafening silence from their spiritual leaders. Where is the condemnation from the likes of Pat Robertson, the Dobson fool, and others whose names I refuse to remember? Somehow we gloss over the religious underpinnings of many of these terrorists' belief systems. They are fundamentally (no pun intended) christian and often devoutly (no oxymoron intended) so. Where is the Christian right? Why is no one saying these acts doom their perpetrators to their hell?

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» RE: Understand it? Posted by: Paxmana1

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Do your own part to fight the hate
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Posted by: LeonBNJ on Jun 12, 2009 8:10 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and tell those that speak using stereotypes, negatively or extemely against women, Blacks, immigrants, Jews and so on that your offended by such speech. Just don't ignore, not say anything just to get along. If they continue to offend, then stay away from them. This must also be expressed to the broadcast extremeists, like Rush, O' and their ilk.

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Missing the point
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Posted by: Dave Nalle on Jun 12, 2009 9:16 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The subject of your interview appears not to have researched his subject very well, because if he had he would know that it is a near universal characteristic of these "right wing extremists" that they disavow any association with the political right or the Republican party and are often even more hostile to the mainstream political right than to the left. In fact, some of them come from a left-wing bacground, but still end up in the same hate-based midset. They really are outside the political mainstream and trying to associate them with the political right is just a cheap smear tactic. It's rather like saying that all liberals are ecoterrorists because the Unabomber was a liberal.

In fact, in the case of the attack on the Holocaust Museum, the elderly attacker specifically said he was driven to his acts by his hatred of the political right and the Republicans and Bush. How does that factor in to this theory?

Dave

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» who's missing the point... Posted by: left_witch
» RE: who's missing the point... Posted by: Dave Nalle
» RE: who's missing the point... Posted by: left_witch

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rebellion against big government is what our Revolution was about
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Posted by: johnwinthrop on Jun 13, 2009 4:19 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
America started and had its best days as a community suspicious of central federal govt and of govt power in general-states, courts, central banks and military.

Even up to the Civil War we relied on state militias to coalesce into a national army. Now however we are entranced by Big Govt-its welfare, its bailouts, its arrogant assumption that it, not the people in local communities, rule over the people who built this nation.

That realization that Obama has perfected the tyranny that FDR, LBJ, Nixon, Reagan, Bush I and II and Clinton began is what drives the increase in what is termed "extreme" right wing groups but what are really normal Americans asking for their normal rights back which had been stolen by Lincoln and the Reconstructionists, and then continued by the TR, Wilson, Fed - Reserve owned gang in the 20 and 21 century.

Fighting against globalization and unilateral, undeclared wars, refusing to accept currency that has no value is "extreme"?

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In A Well Regulated Militia
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Posted by: smilingeyes05 on Jun 14, 2009 3:51 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some read the second amendment differently. Our founding fathers were afraid of an all powerful federal government. And the provided the arming of citizens in the state military. There are some who still believe in the power of the gun. I believe in the power of non-violence.

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There's just too many people here that are to stupid to understand anything but a conspiracy theory!
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Posted by: yellow on Jun 15, 2009 3:01 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The individuals who fit this discription should be obvious. They are pathetic haters. The educated people with something to say should also be quite evident.

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Perfect example
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Posted by: dissentisgood on Jun 15, 2009 5:56 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Today the leader of a mintue-man style anti-immigrant group was arrested for murdering a 9 year old girl and her father, in Arizona. She broke into their house planning to rob them and then killed them both and injured the mom, do we still need to be convinced of the danger of white nationalist people like the many anti-immigrant extremists that post their comments here? So far since 9/11 DHS has not turned up a soul that mattered engaged in terrorism, yet there have been 4 murders by white supremacists in the past 2 weeks, what's really going on here?

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Neiwert is the...
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Posted by: bobtr900 on Jun 19, 2009 7:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...go to guy who has studied hate groups and hate peoples from Scalia to O'Reilly, Hannity et.al.

I have been reading his stuff for the past six years. Neiwert forgot to mention the hate coming from these fundie Christian religions aligned with the GOP. They are so often at the root of all of this hate.

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