COMMENTS: 125
The Results Are In: Americans Are Now More Closely Aligned With Progressive Ideas Than at Any Time in Memory
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On issue after substantive issue, significant majorities of Americans favor progressive solutions to the nation's problems and reject the right's worldview. That's true whether the issue at hand is taxes, war and peace, the role of government in the economy, health care, and on and on.
Yet the idea that America is a "center-right" nation persists; Republican and conservative activists repeat the assertion ad nauseum -- as it's in their interest to do -- and most of the political press corps swallows it whole.
The idea is like a zombie -- you can bludgeon it, burn it or get Dick Cheney to shoot it in the face, but it keeps coming -- it will not die.
The persistence of the center-right narrative, even in the face of piles of evidence suggesting it's little more than a myth, has very real consequences on our political discourse.
Aside from coloring the way the media covers -- and the public views -- the vital issues of the day, it impacts progressive activists, who even when they have the wind at their backs often feel the need to move slowly, cautiously and in ways that will minimize direct confrontation with the conservative movement.
Progressives have long begun the legislative process in the middle and then moved to the center-right, when the reality is that the country is looking for bold changes, not incremental tinkering.
This week, a new report released by the Campaign for America's Future and the media watchdog group MediaMatters attempts to finally bury the idea that the U.S. leans rightward. It takes a comprehensive look at the political landscape in which we live and a look forward at America's shifting demographic profile -- all of which reveal a citizenry that is anything but center-right and will only continue to trend in a more progressive direction, leaving modern conservatism increasingly isolated in its ideas.
The study gathered public-opinion data from a number of respected, nonpartisan polling outfits, findings from the (huge) National Election Study series and official statistics on ethnicity and gender to make the case. Among the findings:
- On what may be the key difference between liberals and conservatives today -- the role of government -- more than twice as many people agree with the statement, "there are more things government should be doing" than believe the Reaganite adage, "the less government, the better."
- In 1994, more than half of Americans said, "government regulation of business usually does more harm than good" and fewer than 4 out of 10 thought "government regulation of business is necessary to protect the public interest." That's been flipped on its head during the 15 years since -- today, fewer than 4 in 10 believe regulation causes more harm than good.
- A majority (55-70 percent, depending on how the question is worded) believes it's the government's responsibility to provide health care to all Americans; fewer than a third of those responding to a CBS/New York Times poll thought health insurance should be "left only to private enterprise."
- Almost 2 out of 3 Americans believe the taxes they pay are fair, and that the very wealthy pay too little in taxes; almost 7 in 10 believe corporations don't pay their fair share of taxes.
During a conference call with reporters, Robert Borosage, co-director of Campaign for America's future, acknowledged that until 15 to 20 years ago, a center-right coalition of conservatives and political moderates did represent a majority of the electorate, but noted that the views of moderates and independents have grown much more closely aligned with those of more progressive voters, and the result is a center-left mandate for the new administration and Democratic-controlled Congress.
What's more, the country's changing demographics suggest that America will continue to be a center-left country in the coming decades. The most progressive (or at least solidly Democratic-leaning) constituencies in the country -- single women, African Americans and other minority groups, young people -- are growing as a share of the electorate, while the "Reagan Democrats" -- older, working-class whites -- who were the backbone of the conservative movement are declining as a share of the population.
Page Gardner, founder of Women's Voices/Women Vote, said of the new coalition, "if you look at their views across the board, they're incredibly progressive."
More Americans are also living in high-density urban environments than ever before, which political scientists have long held creates more tolerance for diversity and in general a more receptive attitude toward the role of government in one's daily life.
Finally, the report notes that the social issues that used to inspire not only the right but also many in the center are rapidly losing traction -- in part because of the demographic trends described above.
Most Americans remain pro-choice (despite one oddly-worded Gallup poll to the contrary), and while a slim majority opposes full marriage equality for gays and lesbians, the general level of acceptance of gays and lesbians is growing ever greater.
That a sea-change is happening in America's political culture should be apparent by the results of the last election, a race that the Republican party explicitly framed as a question of ideology, accusing Barack Obama of being very far to the left -- even deriding him as a cryptosocialist.
But the authors of the report point out, "for the press, Democratic victories are explained away
And it's not just returns from the election -- the report notes:
Conservative commentators, particularly those on Fox News, have portrayed Obama as so liberal that his activist agenda bordered on socialist or even Marxist. Yet according to Gallup polling, Obama's approval ratings for this first 100 days in office were higher than those of any president since Ronald Reagan and higher than seven of the last eight presidents at the 100-day mark. It doesn't seem likely that an entrenched center-right nation would reward such a liberal president with historically high job approval.
But as MediaMatters Director Eric Burns outlined, by and large, the media have not only failed to fully acknowledge the ideological outlook of the American electorate, the months since the election has been marked by the "mainstreaming of incredibly conservative views" within America's pundit class, with "sometimes violent" rhetoric being debated as if it were comfortably within the mainstream.
Burns suggested that part of the reason the center-right meme persists is that many political reporters today cut their teeth in the era of the "Reagan Revolution" and during the "Clinton wars" of the 1990s -- an era in which conservatives were ascendant.
Another factor is that there hasn't been a significant shift in Americans' self-described ideology, as a much-discussed Pew poll taken just after the election found.
Pew's research showed, "Only about 1 in 5 Americans currently call themselves liberal (21 percent), while 38 percent say they are conservative and 36 percent describe themselves as moderate. This is virtually unchanged from recent years; when George W. Bush was first elected president, 18 percent of Americans said they were liberal, 36 percent were conservative and 38 percent considered themselves moderate."
The problem with self-identification, however, is that it hinges on how one defines those labels -- an individual may say he or she is conservative for a variety of reasons, but that same person may favor the progressive position on every issue down the line. According to the most recent (1997) Household Survey of Adult Civic Participation, only around half of Americans could say "which party is more conservative at the national level."
It's ultimately issues that get decided in Washington, and the report issued this week adds to an already-large body of data suggesting that Americans are highly receptive to progressive arguments on issue after issue, regardless of with which label they may identify themselves.
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Posted by: Annapurna1 on May 30, 2009 1:18 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Maybe it's way past time to put down the stupid right-left scorecards?
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Maybe it's way past time to put down the stupid right-left scorecards?
Posted by: wescher
» Wobbly Joe Hill's reputed last words
Posted by: mclemens
» RE: Didn't Finish the Article, Did You?
Posted by: oregoncharles
» its a different pew poll...
Posted by: Annapurna1
» Overthrow Congress -- Elect Progressives
Posted by: halg
» Overthrow Congress -- Elect Progressives
Posted by: halg
» Overthrow Congress -- Elect Progressives
Posted by: halg
» whoops
Posted by: halg
» RE: the polls would seem to point in the opposite direction...
Posted by: judette
Comments are closed-
Posted by: noalternative on May 30, 2009 1:22 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: A requim for the right:
Posted by: Javan
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Posted by: noalternative on May 30, 2009 1:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Maybe your crystal ball is cracked?
Posted by: hagwind
» Come back and discuss your opinion
Posted by: amacd
» RE: They know this isn't a center right
Posted by: Aquinas
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DrBrian on May 30, 2009 1:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Bad News for Barack
Posted by: Mathew Trisencusean
» Kucinich could bring us back...
Posted by: fsuthai
» RE: Kucinich could bring us back...
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Kucinich could bring us back...
Posted by: Aquinas
» RE: Kucinich was dismissed as a wimp
Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Kucinich could bring us back...
Posted by: Louisa
» Be careful what you wish for . . .
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: No, he can't because...
Posted by: oregoncharles
» Need to get your right wing talking points right.
Posted by: EinMD
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: oregoncharles
» Need to get your right wing talking points right.
Posted by: EinMD
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Honky the Nihilist VI on May 30, 2009 2:08 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“We'll probably end up passing more gun bills" that expand owners' rights "than we did during the Republican administration," said Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y., a leading gun control advocate. "That is what surprises me."
Look at how many states score “poorly” according to the Brady-Stalin campaign:
Suck it
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» RE: Gun-toting liberals
Posted by: Sushi
» I am a gun toting 'liberal'
Posted by: EinMD
» I hope the left learned its lesson from the last time...
Posted by: Farasien
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Posted by: weathered on May 30, 2009 2:28 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Political leanings are only meaningful if they can be executed. Today all bets are off, otherwise we'd be out of Iraq/Afgn and bldg. electronic rail systems and infrastructures of esteemable hope.
Instead we live w/a Patriot Act/Homeland Security a 9/11 fraud and impending internet lock-down - all bundled up in package MSM can massage.
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» You forgot "DOMESTICALLY OPERATING DEATH SQUADS" on American soil...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: You forgot "DOMESTICALLY OPERATING DEATH SQUADS" - DOCUMENT THIS! on American soil...
Posted by: oregoncharles
» Let me ask this.
Posted by: james108
» lol
Posted by: EinMD
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Posted by: DrGeneNelson on May 30, 2009 2:30 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem is that the economic and political elites that have imposed the greatest wave of immigration (about 40 million from 1990 to present) have been indifferent to the economic harms to the U.S. middle class - including immigrants arriving prior to 1990 - of this huge wave of people. The labor gluts that have resulted have depressed wages and worsened working conditions across all skill levels, including careers employing Ph.D.s. Ask most any adjunct professor what they are earning per hour (when out of class preparation time is included) and they will inform you their hourly wage is painfully close to the minimum wage. An example of how the economic elite benefit is Bill Gates, III. I believe he became the world's wealthiest man because his firm was able to exploit the gaping loopholes in work visa law. (About 1/3 of Microsoft's 46,000 U.S. employees possessed work visas on 5 April 2007, according to an AP story quoting Microsoft spokeswoman Ginny Terzano.)
Most Americans report that since 1990 it is hard to obtain a "good" job. A truly progressive political stance includes insuring that the U.S. middle class has access to employment. That means throttling back immigration, just like the U.S. policy changed to essentially cutting off immigration during the Great Depression.
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» Its not just the middle class, its primarily the working poor who are....
Posted by: Prophit
» Immigration
Posted by: EinMD
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Posted by: Perry Logan on May 30, 2009 2:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Michael Moore pointed this out in "Downsize This." The idea that America is or ever was a conservative country is a complete fraud.
One has only to point to Social Security. A "right center" nation would not have Social Security. So there you go.
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» RE: It has always been so
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: ExposeTheIsraelLobby on May 30, 2009 3:12 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Watch the following videos on the carving up of Iraq:
youtube.com/watch?v=u4MdyJDnSoI
youtube.com/watch?v=yp_iTR9dI6o
Washington Post Q & A with PBS Frontline director Michael Kirk
Q: In making your film, what were you able to learn about who originated the "deep deBaathification" and the "disband the Iraqi army" decisions? Did you learn what motivated these disastrous decisions?
KIRK: The idea of deBaathification seems to have grown out of the offices of Paul Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith at the Pentagon.
VIDEO: Watch Rep. Jane Harman (D-Calif) say the following at AIPAC (1:20 minutes in)
"The Persian population in Iran is not a majority, it is a plurality. There are many different, diverse and disagreeing populations inside Iran. And an obvious strategy, which I believe is a very good strategy, is to work to separate those populations."
Download an mp3 of Philip Weiss discussing the War for Israel agenda:
antiwar.com/radio/2008/07/12/philip-weiss/
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Posted by: adp3d on May 30, 2009 3:30 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So if we are truly moving to the progressive we should see a government sponsored single-payer health system as a "choice" among the various plans put forward by insurance company sponsored congresspersons. Tell your industry sponsored congresspeople to support HR 626.
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» I am sorry but, Clinton admin is the one that deregulated the markets....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: eagan...
Posted by: Namaimo
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» Welcome to Israel
Posted by: weathered
» Hate, itself, is just a word.
Posted by: countingdaisies
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Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on May 30, 2009 3:33 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This entire column buys into a Washington-MSM promoted farce that DOES NOT EXIST. Namely: that America is a somewhat dysfunctional "democracy" run under a broken "capitalist" free market system heroically trying to find its way.
Conservative?
What is "conservative" about a supposed republican BushCo puppet regime that bloated the government in size over 50% larger in 8 years? Not to mention further eroding capital market regulations so that banks under the private "Federal Reserve" Corp system were allowed to jeopardize the entire global economy into meltdown for profit. Lastly what is “conservative” about going on a bloody rampage of genocidal 9/11 "war on terror" for so-called rogue "nation building" binge throughout the world? And all based on a 9/11 event that is an officially acknowledged coverup?
Progressive?
What is "progressive" about a ruling class democrat Obama flunky regime that has promoted a FISA spy state, virtually unlimited Wall Street Bailouts and ongoing sham 9/11 "war on terror" that is at least 1,000 LIES old according to the Center for Public Integrity? On the domestic front, failures such as pandering to the Big "Healthcare" lobby to guarantee there is no single payer insurance plan is just the tip of betrayal behind a “Hope We Can Believe In” dodge that was a charade from the first day to the last.
What was “progressive” about the first democrat “progressive” president Klu Klux Klan stooge Woodrow Wilson who signed the “Federal Reserve” Act into law putting what amounts to an overclass private bank monopoly in charge of America? Wilson also rubberstamped the “Sedition Act of 1918” to jail anyone that seriously protested the for-profit blood money lunacy of World War 1.
The truth is, there can be no real “center” or “left” to “right” at a nation that is labeled as anything but what it actually is: a FASCIST STATE.
FASCISM (noun)
any movement, tendency, or ideology that favors dictatorial government, centralized control of private enterprise, repression of all opposition, and extreme nationalism
Encarta® World English Dictionary
“The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the government of the U.S. ever since the days of Andrew Jackson.”
President FDR (on de facto Fascist rule in a letter to corporate monopoly charlatan “Colonel” Edward M. House, co-founder of the Council on Foreign Relations and political fixer for the ruling class. House also handled President Wilson. 11/21/ l933 from the book "F.D.R.: His Personal Letters" - New York: Duell, Sloan and Pearce 1950)
“The minority, the ruling class at present, has the schools and press, usually the Church as well, under its thumb. This enables it to organize and sway the emotions of the masses, and make its tool of them.”
Doctor Albert Einstein (in a letter to Sigmund Freud 7/30/1932. 1879-1955)
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers."
Thomas Pynchon (Gravity’s Rainbow 1973)
“Over time whoever controls the money system controls the nation.”
Stephen Zarlenga (Director American Monetary Institute)
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» I just had to say how much I get from reading posters on here.
Posted by: Prophit
» You've cut to the chase.
Posted by: freelyb
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Posted by: ATH on May 30, 2009 4:07 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But it doesn't really matter anymore, because we waited too long to start changing our entire infrastructure. People have no idea how dependent upon oil this country is; we use far more petroleum feeding this country's desire for meat than we do in our vehicles. Transportation is not the biggest problem, but rather our food industry. In fact, modern agriculture is defined as: using land to turn petroleum into food. It has been through the industrialization of agriculture that has allowed our species to grow far beyond sustainability. This Earth is severely overpopulated. Moreover, our appetite for meat, and how that is met, causes more global warming than all the cars and planes, etc. combined. They're also virtual pretri dishes for creating new viruses.
Also, it's untrue that we have 500 years of coal. That number is based upon a number of assumptions, many of which are impossible. First, it's based on the assumption that we can retrieve all the coal known or believed to exist in the U.S. This is impossible, even if we let them blow the top off every mountain in this country. It's also based upon the assumptions of zero growth of coal production, and zero population growth. When you add these factors back in, we discover that the number if closer to 50 years than to 500. 100 years max, 46 years min. But it's a good thing that we can't burn coal for another 500 years!
Oil is running out, and quickly. The truth is, we don't have time to perfect alternative energies we should have been pursuing with the enthusiasm of the Manhattan Project, and on an even grander scale. But we can never seem to gain the will to create positive, helpful things like we can when it comes to creating WMDs.
When viewed against a larger backdrop of time, even a millennium, the whole era of oil is but a brief spike against this longer breadth of time. And with oil will go our modern way of life.
There are people, however, who are willing to pre-empt nature and destroy billions of human lives in order to reduce the population. After all, they can't create new resources, or turn back the clock to begin the work that should have started in the 70s when American oil production peaked. Carter tried to get us onto a new path. He even put solar pannels on the White House, but one of Reagan's first acts was to have those ripped down. Because of greed, our species will suffer horribly.
These people, the self proclaimed 'elite' of the world, the bankers and corporate titans, don't want to give up their plush lives. So, we will use American military force to takeover the remaining oil resources of the world. Iraq could be seen as one of the first of a new beginning of numerous such wars. And now that they have their "war on terror," which means endless war, they don't even have to bother coming up with new lies to gain the people's support. They're getting to the point where they don't care what we think, for we do not hold them accountable. We do not protest in the millions, which is what is required at this point.
But no matter what they do, oil is running out at an astonishing rate. They still haven't figured out a way to kill off 2/3rdsof the world's population without also causing perfect conditions for their own demise.
I'm almost out of space. I will continue this post in another one.
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Posted by: ATH on May 30, 2009 4:08 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» You mirror my thoughts...
Posted by: freelyb
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Posted by: maxpayne on May 30, 2009 5:46 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Of course it won't change. We are paying for our own demise.
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: chrysalis124812 on May 30, 2009 5:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» True, but they knew we could do that, so now they are raising....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: True, but they knew we could do that, so now they are raising....
Posted by: chrysalis124812
» If It Were Only That Simple
Posted by: NoPCZone
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Posted by: psychologist on May 30, 2009 6:07 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» You have totally missed the scope of the comments here.
Posted by: freelyb
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Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on May 30, 2009 6:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is no accident. Wealthy Republicans and corporations decided to take over the media after the Goldwater debacle in 1964. They have spent billions of dollars in this project and now they largely control our media. They do it with a delicate touch, so that reporters may not even admit to themselves how they color their reporting to keep their editors happy, but Republicans do control the major media.
So long as the right controls the message that people hear on their televisions and radios they will be able to lead the country where they want. The growth of the internet represents a crack in the media wall they have created and this crack has allowed another message to get through. This is important and today there is even one major cable network that carries a progressive message a good part of the day but we have to wonder how long this crack will persist. It is still the case that most people are under the sway of the other networks and the progressive point of view still has to struggle to be heard.
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» RE: Progressive but Ignorant
Posted by: chrysalis124812
» Propaganda science was started during WW2...
Posted by: Farasien
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Posted by: daw13 on May 30, 2009 7:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Where's the poll, Josh
Posted by: daw13
» Thanks for clarifying that for us, but its important to be vigilant....
Posted by: Prophit
» Here, read this and it will explain what you are saying.....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Here, read this and it will explain what you are saying.....
Posted by: daw13
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Posted by: frankly1 on May 30, 2009 7:32 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most resonably normal people, when in possession of sound information are "liberal" or somewhat progressive as this benifits the vast majority of society instead of enriching the very few by exploiting many.
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Posted by: LoveAlex59 on May 30, 2009 8:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: ellie on May 30, 2009 8:33 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
now how to pay for free??? in a perfect world, we would still have control over our own well being and people we care to help out voluntarily... we gave away that right with demands on politicians and corporations to start doing it for us... time savings for us, profits for them was the beginning, we were ok with that within our own self defined boundaries...
now they know how to get $$ out of us one way or another for the greater good of all... we'll pay for it no matter if we want it or not one way or another till we're further in hock then we already are personally and as a nation...
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Posted by: NoPCZone on May 30, 2009 8:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1-Clueless as to how to be effective.
2-Bought and paid for.
3-PINTOs that are nothing more than careerist politicians pandering to the progressives that have supported and worked to get them to Washington.
Last October, when the economic markets were in free fall, an unpopular lame duck was in the White House and the McSame campaign in self destruct mode the Democrats in Congress could have swung for the fences and didn't even get a bunt. Over overwhelming public opposition they gave a lame duck Republican a blank check or a banking bail out and got NOTHING for it. That's when I was sure that representative democracy was effectively dead in America.
The democrats could have given the bankers their bail out in exchange for EFCA, Bankruptcy reform and Universal healthcare- period. Make it an all or nothing package deal. The Rethugs would have given in and it would be a done deal. As it stands now, the Bankers got the bail out, we got the bill and the same interests that hot bailed out are lobbying against market reforms, union law reforms and healthcare reform.
Obama could have taken to the trail during the final weeks of the campaign based upon this package and had a real mandate that nobody could dispute. The Three Stooges: Obama, Pelosi & Reid obviously are more than a few stones short of a load and let this rare opportunity get by. I promise you the Republicans would have used the crisis to get EVERYTHING they wanted and then some.
Molly Ivins said George Bush was born on 3rd base and thought he hit a triple, but the democrats hit a Home Run in November and are treating it like a ground rule double. She also wrote this in her last months about the 2006 election:
"May I remind you what this election is about? Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, unprecedented presidential powers, unmatched incompetence, unparalleled corruption, unwarranted eavesdropping, Katrina, Enron, Halliburton, global warming, Cheney's secret energy task force, record oil company profits, $3 gasoline, FEMA, the Supreme Court, Diebold, Florida in 2000, Ohio in 2004, Terri Schiavo, stem cell research, golden parachutes, shrunken pensions, unavailable and expensive health care, habeas corpus, no weapons of mass destruction, sacrificed soldiers and Iraqi civilians, wasted billions, Taliban resurgence, expiration of the assault weapons ban, North Korea, Iran, intelligent design, swift boat hit squads, and on and on.
This election is about that, but much more -- it's about honor, dignity and comity in this country. It's about the Constitution, which gives us this great nation. Bush ran on a pledge of "restoring honor and integrity" to the White House. Instead, he brought us Tom DeLay, Roy Blunt, Katherine Harris, John Doolittle, Jerry Lewis, Richard Pombo, Mark Foley, Dennis Hastert, David Safavian, Jack Abramoff, Ralph Reed, Karl Rove and an illegal and immoral war in Iraq. People, it's up to you. "
Molly Ivins
Someone needs to remind our leaders why we sent them to Washington...
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» RE: This is their real agenda.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» Yup.
Posted by: freelyb
» I'm comnig to agree with you OC, but
Posted by: Drclaw
» RE: I'm a Green Party activist,
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: And thanks,
Posted by: oregoncharles
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on May 30, 2009 8:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: RegK on May 30, 2009 9:12 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» This is about as straight-forward as it gets...
Posted by: mcstewey
» Indeed
Posted by: freelyb
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Posted by: drhibbart on May 30, 2009 10:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Indeed...it's called "systematic imperatives"
Posted by: mcstewey
» True, but
Posted by: freelyb
» RE: Republicans remain out of power,
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Why would we care what Republicans think?
Posted by: oregoncharles
Comments are closed-
Posted by: willymack on May 30, 2009 12:52 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We all want good health care
We all want a safe workplace
We all want good schools for our children
We all want peace, and not endless, phony wars
We all want to hope that we can "get ahead"
We all want to retire in comfort and dignity
What's different today is:
We're less educated than we used to be
We're less involved in each others' lives
We're more insular and divided along political lines
We're more indifferent to world affairs
We're financially far worse off than before,due to corporate greed and crooked politics
We're far more crowded, polluted, and ripe for a self-inflicted disaster than EVER.
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» RE: Hey, we've ALWAYS been liberals and progressives at heart
Posted by: peterjkraus
» RE: I agree, but hopefully, we are seeing the devastation it's caused and are reverting to caring,
Posted by: judette
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Posted by: rgd on May 30, 2009 3:58 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» I think we are already there.
Posted by: freelyb
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on May 30, 2009 5:03 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have shoddy everything - government, jurisprudence,infrastructure, materials, food, entertainment, national infrastructure - name it - because the public ignorantly wants it. Soon, fine food, fine music, fine anything will no longer be available, because only ersatz and third-rate trash and garbage the ignorant want sells.
I saw it all coming the first time I was told that the pitifully amateurish cacophany coming from the stereo being played by a friends kids was "Beatle Music" and those inflicting it upon me were making millions because children with child-like sophistication about music had money and were buying it.
We're in a race to the intellectual, artistic, scientific bottom. Anything new, no matter how useless and pointless; anything sensational, no matter how vapid, or criminal, and more.
The monkey cage is running the menagerie that is running the U.S.
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Posted by: dealmeinfo2 on May 30, 2009 5:03 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
------------------------------------------------
Central Mechanical Minnesota Minnesota Property Preservation
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Posted by: judette on May 30, 2009 5:39 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Jeanne on May 30, 2009 7:22 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: booboo on May 30, 2009 10:18 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Peace on earth and goodwill to all living beings."
"The plan?"
"Mass uprisings."
"Leadership?"
"Each and everyone."
"The spirit?"
"Yes we can."
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Posted by: monkeywrench on May 31, 2009 6:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is a word to describe this: propaganda.
And it's not that the media simply "swallows it whole"; the media helps to CREATE this narrative. The five-or-so companies that now own virtually all of the mainstream media outlets are themselves owned and/or controlled by either members of the moneyed elite or by corporations that have defense contracts with the government – that ever-lovin' Military-Industrial Complex President Eisenhower warned us about.
We are being manipulated just as surely as if we had lived in the old Soviet Union, with Pravda and Isvestia as our only news sources. The only difference today is that the propaganda is more subtle and disguised (and pervasive), thanks to the influence of advertising, and that we as a people are not as sophisticated as russian citizens were at knowing when we are being lied to. We gobble up this stuff just like teenagers and twentysomethings gobble up the silliness and fakery of "reality" television shows. Our daily life, as seen through the mainstream media, has become one big reality show –– and just as fake.
We just cannot seem to get our minds around the idea that big corporations will lie to us and/or do anything else that improves their bottom lines, no matter how illegal or immoral – and we also seem incapable of rejecting lies by political pundits on the public airwaves that are so ridiculous an eight-year-old couldn't get them past his mommy! I am absolutely appalled at what these nitwits, like Hannity and Limbaugh, et al., and their "experts" try to pass off, yet, they get away with it, over and over again. Have so many of us really become that stooopid?
This is the result of a dumbed-down America, which has become so not only because of an educational breakdown, but also because of a deliberate effort on the part of corporations to turn us into advertising-addled morons that began with the invention of television and which now intrudes into every waking second of modern life. If current trends are any indication, that mission has been accomplished. This does not bode well for the continuance of a democracy, which depends, the Founding Fathers told us, on an educated and informed population – not a population that thinks it knows more because it is exposed to more stuff, more "information," no matter how trite, but a population that understands in depth. This is what we are losing, just as certainly as our nation is losing its place in the world. Actually, these are two sides of the same, tarnished, coin.
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Posted by: Tom Degan on May 31, 2009 6:53 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did you have a nice nap, kiddies?
"Judge Sonia Has Her day
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
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Posted by: SHRED on May 31, 2009 8:10 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where's your "bailout"?
Hummm...??
Check this out:
http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/21576
---
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Posted by: Southern Gal on May 31, 2009 8:54 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» I'm not so sure
Posted by: james108
» RE: True enough, but it's how we do politics.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Reinventing the Wheel
Posted by: oregoncharles
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Posted by: james108 on May 31, 2009 9:33 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most people do want an end to the wars, real civil rights and privacy back, universal human rights for those not proven to have done anything wrong, an end to the costly war on drugs and some examination of us having the highest incarcerations per capita.
Neither fake option of the "two party system" provides this though, and probably never will and never did. They may change the way they do it to capture the majority that seems to concede to them, sure. Out of sight, out of mind. They will not stop the imperialist push to control other countries for their own benefit though, including murders, assassinations, mercenaries, political suppression and spin control though. They're monsters the American people have allowed and unleashed, and it should be our responsibility to deal with it.
Many "conservatives" are really lashing out against the fascist, wasteful policies of the Democrats, where waste is really pork to line their backers parties. Republicans do this too. Republicans are no more delusional than Democrats in backing people and parties entirely against their real interests though. Add the two together, and the majority ends up backing people against their interest because the deck's rigged.
That's what bugs me more than anything about Obama and the democrats. They use the rhetoric of the things I hold dear, like concern for fellow man, and twist it into a perverted version of fascism, and take even more money from the common people to distribute to their billionaire backers. Instead of ending the charade of military tribunals, they just change a few of the details and call it true justice.
"No more torture" while hiring unaccountable mercenaries. "No more lobbyists" while putting these people directly in charge of things.
They use the rhetoric of protecting people and peace to support apartheid and violations in Gaza for example.
Republicans do this too, but people are so far to the left of either the Democratic or Republican parties, it's mostly the illusion of the democrats that's holding us back from real social justice.
They make us feel better about being a racist, fascist, violent nation by doing a few good things while spreading the bad parts even worse. Let's focus on a million dollars for clean coal and some turbines, while we destroy the environment, remove protection for our other areas even more and increase spying on people and pump up the military budget...
The people want better for sure, but they're never going to get it settling for and being enamored by chump change. As long as you empower the democratic party, there will be those scared so silly because they see it for what it is, that they think they need to support the republicans or something worse as the lesser of two evils. You can't support evil and blind yourself to it and be content with it, because there will be those that fight it with their own, and on and on, round and round we go...
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Posted by: troy on May 31, 2009 11:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The media is still run by the elites who benefit from the Conservative propaganda, therefore most Americans are effectively propagandized and will fall under carefully cultivated "conventional wisdom". Mr Obama is President because he is a wet dream for elite profiteers. The Democratic Party is far to the right of the Republican Party during Nixon's Administration. These polls show that the American people identify with catch-phrases which have little meaning any more (what is Liberal about corporate welfare?). Of, coaurse we have seen wishful thinking from Mr Holland before whether its dismissing "conspiracy theories" or seeing the empty glass and imaging it is full of water.
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» RE: Labels
Posted by: oregoncharles
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Posted by: DOUGLASFIELD on May 31, 2009 12:48 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THESE TWO HIGH PROFILE LEGAL CASES IN GEORGIA AND PENNSYLVANIA SHOULD ENLIGHTEN US ALL TO THE DIFFICULTIES OUR CURRENT U.S JUDICIAL SYSTEM HAS IN KNOWING BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT THAT THEY HAVE THE REAL CRIMINAL WAITING ON DEATH ROW TO BE EXECUTED!
WHEN ONE LOOKS AT THE CURRENT CRIMINAL FEDERAL APPEAL DEFENSE BEING OFFERED THESE TWO POORER DEATH ROW INMATES,WE ALL NEED TO BE A LITTLE MORE AWARE THAT HAVING REAL LEGAL REPRESENTATION FOR ONES FEDERAL APPEALS IS ONLY A VERY SMALL PORTION OF WHAT IS NEEDED IN ONES SEARCH FOR JUSTICE HERE! THESE TWO POSSIBLE INNOCENT AMERICAN CITIZENS NEVER HAD PROPER LEGAL REPRESENTATION IN THEIR FIRST TRIALS AND LETS NOT FORGET REAL REALITY HERE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AMERICA HAS NEVER OFFERED POORER AMERICANS A LEGITIMATE OPPORTUNITY TO PROVE ONES NON GUILT IN OUR U.S.JUDICIAL SYSTEM.IT TAKES REAL $$$ TO MAKE SURE OUR INNOCENT CITIZENS ARE PROTECTED,AND SADLY OUR U.S CONGRESS HAS NEVER THOUGHT MIDDLE CLASS AND WORKING POOR AMERICAN CITIZENS ARE WORTH THE OUTLAY OF FUNDING ??
FOR DECADES OUR IVORY TOWER U .S. CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS OF THE FREE WORLD HAVE ONLY LOOKED THE OTHER WAY IN EVEN THINKING ABOUT OFFERING THE LITTLE PEOPLE IN AMERICA JUSTICE IN OUR COURT ROOMS! NO, MONEY TALK$ IN OUR AMERICAN JUDICIAL $YSTEM, AND WE THE LITTLE PEOPLE IN AMERICA ARE BEING FALSELY INCARCERATED AND EXECUTED ALL ACROSS THIS THE WEALTHIEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD .............
WHEN LEGAL MINDS DO NOT HAVE THE PROPER INVESTIGATIVE MINDS WORKING IN CONJUCTION WITH THEM IN ANY OF THESE DEATH ROW LEGAL CASES,WE THE PUBLIC CAN NEVER REALLY KNOW THAT THE PEOPLE BEING EXECUTED IN THIS COUNTRY ARE THE REAL BAD GUYS !!!
LAWYERS FOR POOR AMERICANS HAS ALWAYS FELT THAT A FEDERAL TASK FORCE MADE UP OF TOP FLIGHT LAWYERS AND INVESTIGATORS IS NEEDED TO ASSURE US ALL THAT REAL JUSTICE IS BEING CARRIED OUT IN THESE EXECUTIONS NATIONWIDE.
SINCE ALL OF US ARE ALL VERY WELL AWARE OF HOW MANY AMERICANS LIE IN THEIR EVERYDAY PERSONAL AND BUSINESS AFFAIRS,YOU WOULD THINK WE WOULD ALL BE ALOT BRIGHTER IN KNOWING THAT HONEST TESTIMONY IS ALSO NOT HAPPENING IN OUR COURT ROOMS ACROSS OUR COUNTRY AS WELL? YES IT WOULD BE WONDERFUL IF EVERYONE WERE HONEST IN AMERICA,NOT JUST THE CRIMINALS BEING TRIED,CONVICTED AND THEN EXECUTED BY OTHER LIARS,CHEATS AND THIEFS IN COURTS ALL ACROSS AMERICA. ... THERE BY THE GRACE OF GOD GO I ???
lawyersforpooramericans@yahoo.com (424-247-2013)
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Posted by: amacd on May 31, 2009 3:42 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ralph was the first to detect, by talking with average Americans, that his positions were the "majoritarian positions" on most issues.
I'll bet today, that if the pollsters had the guts to ask it, that a majority of Americans would be in agreement with Nader's 2008 campaign position that America is now ruled by a ruling-elite 'political-economic Empire' not unlike the British Empire that oppressed our political, economic, and social spheres of life in 1775 --- and that the British Empire's royal governors and British Empire's royally chartered East India Corporation were very similar to our current corporate overlords and their two-party 'Vichy' politicians and media.
Alan MacDonald
Sanford, Maine
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» RE: alph Nader was first to understand this, but still wouldn't run for any office other than. . .
Posted by: Beck
» Maybe it's you that doesn't care
Posted by: james108
» Panty-wetting Obama ass kisser at it again. FUCK YOU !
Posted by: John More
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Posted by: Jack Canuck on May 31, 2009 4:23 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I remember during the Democratic primary, when there were 8 or 9 condenders for the nomination, one website, it might even have been Alternet, posted a survey on 19 different issues, with opinions ranging on a scale of 0-4 in order to measure the rank of importance those who took the survey gave to the issues. Those opinions were matched with those expressed by the candidates. It turned out that my opinions matched up best with Mike Gravell, and then Dennis Kucinich. It also turned out that Kucinich and Gravell also finished first and second among those that took the survey by a wide majority, yet both were deemed to "fringe candidates" by the media, and thus became fringe candidates.
Popular opinion does not mean much in the US, except perhaps when it comes to questions such as gay marriage.
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Posted by: midwing on May 31, 2009 5:25 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But the bottom line is: the candidate with the most money wins. Where did Obama get all of his money?
You got it.... from the corporations!
Now he owes them, and is obviously paying up, despite having to renige on so many of his campaign promises.
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» Granted
Posted by: james108
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Posted by: helmunator on May 31, 2009 8:38 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: halg on May 31, 2009 11:02 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I meant Gordon Brown, not Tony Brown.
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Posted by: Comrade Laissez-Faire on Jun 6, 2009 10:52 AM
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Posted by: menokia on Jun 25, 2009 8:35 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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الديكور و الأثاث المنزلي - The Design and Decor Section
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خيمة رمضان
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Posted by: Annapurna1 on May 30, 2009 1:18 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Maybe it's way past time to put down the stupid right-left scorecards?
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Maybe it's way past time to put down the stupid right-left scorecards?
Posted by: wescher
» Wobbly Joe Hill's reputed last words
Posted by: mclemens
» RE: Didn't Finish the Article, Did You?
Posted by: oregoncharles
» its a different pew poll...
Posted by: Annapurna1
» Overthrow Congress -- Elect Progressives
Posted by: halg
» Overthrow Congress -- Elect Progressives
Posted by: halg
» Overthrow Congress -- Elect Progressives
Posted by: halg
» whoops
Posted by: halg
» RE: the polls would seem to point in the opposite direction...
Posted by: judette
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Posted by: noalternative on May 30, 2009 1:22 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: A requim for the right:
Posted by: Javan
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Posted by: noalternative on May 30, 2009 1:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Maybe your crystal ball is cracked?
Posted by: hagwind
» Come back and discuss your opinion
Posted by: amacd
» RE: They know this isn't a center right
Posted by: Aquinas
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Posted by: DrBrian on May 30, 2009 1:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Bad News for Barack
Posted by: Mathew Trisencusean
» Kucinich could bring us back...
Posted by: fsuthai
» RE: Kucinich could bring us back...
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Kucinich could bring us back...
Posted by: Aquinas
» RE: Kucinich was dismissed as a wimp
Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Kucinich could bring us back...
Posted by: Louisa
» Be careful what you wish for . . .
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: No, he can't because...
Posted by: oregoncharles
» Need to get your right wing talking points right.
Posted by: EinMD
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: oregoncharles
» Need to get your right wing talking points right.
Posted by: EinMD
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Posted by: Honky the Nihilist VI on May 30, 2009 2:08 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“We'll probably end up passing more gun bills" that expand owners' rights "than we did during the Republican administration," said Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y., a leading gun control advocate. "That is what surprises me."
Look at how many states score “poorly” according to the Brady-Stalin campaign:
Suck it
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» RE: Gun-toting liberals
Posted by: Sushi
» I am a gun toting 'liberal'
Posted by: EinMD
» I hope the left learned its lesson from the last time...
Posted by: Farasien
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Posted by: weathered on May 30, 2009 2:28 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Political leanings are only meaningful if they can be executed. Today all bets are off, otherwise we'd be out of Iraq/Afgn and bldg. electronic rail systems and infrastructures of esteemable hope.
Instead we live w/a Patriot Act/Homeland Security a 9/11 fraud and impending internet lock-down - all bundled up in package MSM can massage.
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» You forgot "DOMESTICALLY OPERATING DEATH SQUADS" on American soil...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: You forgot "DOMESTICALLY OPERATING DEATH SQUADS" - DOCUMENT THIS! on American soil...
Posted by: oregoncharles
» Let me ask this.
Posted by: james108
» lol
Posted by: EinMD
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Posted by: DrGeneNelson on May 30, 2009 2:30 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem is that the economic and political elites that have imposed the greatest wave of immigration (about 40 million from 1990 to present) have been indifferent to the economic harms to the U.S. middle class - including immigrants arriving prior to 1990 - of this huge wave of people. The labor gluts that have resulted have depressed wages and worsened working conditions across all skill levels, including careers employing Ph.D.s. Ask most any adjunct professor what they are earning per hour (when out of class preparation time is included) and they will inform you their hourly wage is painfully close to the minimum wage. An example of how the economic elite benefit is Bill Gates, III. I believe he became the world's wealthiest man because his firm was able to exploit the gaping loopholes in work visa law. (About 1/3 of Microsoft's 46,000 U.S. employees possessed work visas on 5 April 2007, according to an AP story quoting Microsoft spokeswoman Ginny Terzano.)
Most Americans report that since 1990 it is hard to obtain a "good" job. A truly progressive political stance includes insuring that the U.S. middle class has access to employment. That means throttling back immigration, just like the U.S. policy changed to essentially cutting off immigration during the Great Depression.
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» Its not just the middle class, its primarily the working poor who are....
Posted by: Prophit
» Immigration
Posted by: EinMD
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Posted by: Perry Logan on May 30, 2009 2:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Michael Moore pointed this out in "Downsize This." The idea that America is or ever was a conservative country is a complete fraud.
One has only to point to Social Security. A "right center" nation would not have Social Security. So there you go.
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» RE: It has always been so
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: ExposeTheIsraelLobby on May 30, 2009 3:12 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Watch the following videos on the carving up of Iraq:
youtube.com/watch?v=u4MdyJDnSoI
youtube.com/watch?v=yp_iTR9dI6o
Washington Post Q & A with PBS Frontline director Michael Kirk
Q: In making your film, what were you able to learn about who originated the "deep deBaathification" and the "disband the Iraqi army" decisions? Did you learn what motivated these disastrous decisions?
KIRK: The idea of deBaathification seems to have grown out of the offices of Paul Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith at the Pentagon.
VIDEO: Watch Rep. Jane Harman (D-Calif) say the following at AIPAC (1:20 minutes in)
"The Persian population in Iran is not a majority, it is a plurality. There are many different, diverse and disagreeing populations inside Iran. And an obvious strategy, which I believe is a very good strategy, is to work to separate those populations."
Download an mp3 of Philip Weiss discussing the War for Israel agenda:
antiwar.com/radio/2008/07/12/philip-weiss/
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Posted by: adp3d on May 30, 2009 3:30 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So if we are truly moving to the progressive we should see a government sponsored single-payer health system as a "choice" among the various plans put forward by insurance company sponsored congresspersons. Tell your industry sponsored congresspeople to support HR 626.
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» I am sorry but, Clinton admin is the one that deregulated the markets....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: eagan...
Posted by: Namaimo
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» Welcome to Israel
Posted by: weathered
» Hate, itself, is just a word.
Posted by: countingdaisies
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Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on May 30, 2009 3:33 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This entire column buys into a Washington-MSM promoted farce that DOES NOT EXIST. Namely: that America is a somewhat dysfunctional "democracy" run under a broken "capitalist" free market system heroically trying to find its way.
Conservative?
What is "conservative" about a supposed republican BushCo puppet regime that bloated the government in size over 50% larger in 8 years? Not to mention further eroding capital market regulations so that banks under the private "Federal Reserve" Corp system were allowed to jeopardize the entire global economy into meltdown for profit. Lastly what is “conservative” about going on a bloody rampage of genocidal 9/11 "war on terror" for so-called rogue "nation building" binge throughout the world? And all based on a 9/11 event that is an officially acknowledged coverup?
Progressive?
What is "progressive" about a ruling class democrat Obama flunky regime that has promoted a FISA spy state, virtually unlimited Wall Street Bailouts and ongoing sham 9/11 "war on terror" that is at least 1,000 LIES old according to the Center for Public Integrity? On the domestic front, failures such as pandering to the Big "Healthcare" lobby to guarantee there is no single payer insurance plan is just the tip of betrayal behind a “Hope We Can Believe In” dodge that was a charade from the first day to the last.
What was “progressive” about the first democrat “progressive” president Klu Klux Klan stooge Woodrow Wilson who signed the “Federal Reserve” Act into law putting what amounts to an overclass private bank monopoly in charge of America? Wilson also rubberstamped the “Sedition Act of 1918” to jail anyone that seriously protested the for-profit blood money lunacy of World War 1.
The truth is, there can be no real “center” or “left” to “right” at a nation that is labeled as anything but what it actually is: a FASCIST STATE.
FASCISM (noun)
any movement, tendency, or ideology that favors dictatorial government, centralized control of private enterprise, repression of all opposition, and extreme nationalism
Encarta® World English Dictionary
“The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the government of the U.S. ever since the days of Andrew Jackson.”
President FDR (on de facto Fascist rule in a letter to corporate monopoly charlatan “Colonel” Edward M. House, co-founder of the Council on Foreign Relations and political fixer for the ruling class. House also handled President Wilson. 11/21/ l933 from the book "F.D.R.: His Personal Letters" - New York: Duell, Sloan and Pearce 1950)
“The minority, the ruling class at present, has the schools and press, usually the Church as well, under its thumb. This enables it to organize and sway the emotions of the masses, and make its tool of them.”
Doctor Albert Einstein (in a letter to Sigmund Freud 7/30/1932. 1879-1955)
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers."
Thomas Pynchon (Gravity’s Rainbow 1973)
“Over time whoever controls the money system controls the nation.”
Stephen Zarlenga (Director American Monetary Institute)
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» I just had to say how much I get from reading posters on here.
Posted by: Prophit
» You've cut to the chase.
Posted by: freelyb
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Posted by: ATH on May 30, 2009 4:07 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But it doesn't really matter anymore, because we waited too long to start changing our entire infrastructure. People have no idea how dependent upon oil this country is; we use far more petroleum feeding this country's desire for meat than we do in our vehicles. Transportation is not the biggest problem, but rather our food industry. In fact, modern agriculture is defined as: using land to turn petroleum into food. It has been through the industrialization of agriculture that has allowed our species to grow far beyond sustainability. This Earth is severely overpopulated. Moreover, our appetite for meat, and how that is met, causes more global warming than all the cars and planes, etc. combined. They're also virtual pretri dishes for creating new viruses.
Also, it's untrue that we have 500 years of coal. That number is based upon a number of assumptions, many of which are impossible. First, it's based on the assumption that we can retrieve all the coal known or believed to exist in the U.S. This is impossible, even if we let them blow the top off every mountain in this country. It's also based upon the assumptions of zero growth of coal production, and zero population growth. When you add these factors back in, we discover that the number if closer to 50 years than to 500. 100 years max, 46 years min. But it's a good thing that we can't burn coal for another 500 years!
Oil is running out, and quickly. The truth is, we don't have time to perfect alternative energies we should have been pursuing with the enthusiasm of the Manhattan Project, and on an even grander scale. But we can never seem to gain the will to create positive, helpful things like we can when it comes to creating WMDs.
When viewed against a larger backdrop of time, even a millennium, the whole era of oil is but a brief spike against this longer breadth of time. And with oil will go our modern way of life.
There are people, however, who are willing to pre-empt nature and destroy billions of human lives in order to reduce the population. After all, they can't create new resources, or turn back the clock to begin the work that should have started in the 70s when American oil production peaked. Carter tried to get us onto a new path. He even put solar pannels on the White House, but one of Reagan's first acts was to have those ripped down. Because of greed, our species will suffer horribly.
These people, the self proclaimed 'elite' of the world, the bankers and corporate titans, don't want to give up their plush lives. So, we will use American military force to takeover the remaining oil resources of the world. Iraq could be seen as one of the first of a new beginning of numerous such wars. And now that they have their "war on terror," which means endless war, they don't even have to bother coming up with new lies to gain the people's support. They're getting to the point where they don't care what we think, for we do not hold them accountable. We do not protest in the millions, which is what is required at this point.
But no matter what they do, oil is running out at an astonishing rate. They still haven't figured out a way to kill off 2/3rdsof the world's population without also causing perfect conditions for their own demise.
I'm almost out of space. I will continue this post in another one.
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Posted by: ATH on May 30, 2009 4:08 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» You mirror my thoughts...
Posted by: freelyb
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Posted by: maxpayne on May 30, 2009 5:46 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Of course it won't change. We are paying for our own demise.
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: chrysalis124812 on May 30, 2009 5:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» True, but they knew we could do that, so now they are raising....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: True, but they knew we could do that, so now they are raising....
Posted by: chrysalis124812
» If It Were Only That Simple
Posted by: NoPCZone
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Posted by: psychologist on May 30, 2009 6:07 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» You have totally missed the scope of the comments here.
Posted by: freelyb
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Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on May 30, 2009 6:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is no accident. Wealthy Republicans and corporations decided to take over the media after the Goldwater debacle in 1964. They have spent billions of dollars in this project and now they largely control our media. They do it with a delicate touch, so that reporters may not even admit to themselves how they color their reporting to keep their editors happy, but Republicans do control the major media.
So long as the right controls the message that people hear on their televisions and radios they will be able to lead the country where they want. The growth of the internet represents a crack in the media wall they have created and this crack has allowed another message to get through. This is important and today there is even one major cable network that carries a progressive message a good part of the day but we have to wonder how long this crack will persist. It is still the case that most people are under the sway of the other networks and the progressive point of view still has to struggle to be heard.
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» RE: Progressive but Ignorant
Posted by: chrysalis124812
» Propaganda science was started during WW2...
Posted by: Farasien
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Posted by: daw13 on May 30, 2009 7:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Where's the poll, Josh
Posted by: daw13
» Thanks for clarifying that for us, but its important to be vigilant....
Posted by: Prophit
» Here, read this and it will explain what you are saying.....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Here, read this and it will explain what you are saying.....
Posted by: daw13
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Posted by: frankly1 on May 30, 2009 7:32 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most resonably normal people, when in possession of sound information are "liberal" or somewhat progressive as this benifits the vast majority of society instead of enriching the very few by exploiting many.
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Posted by: LoveAlex59 on May 30, 2009 8:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: ellie on May 30, 2009 8:33 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
now how to pay for free??? in a perfect world, we would still have control over our own well being and people we care to help out voluntarily... we gave away that right with demands on politicians and corporations to start doing it for us... time savings for us, profits for them was the beginning, we were ok with that within our own self defined boundaries...
now they know how to get $$ out of us one way or another for the greater good of all... we'll pay for it no matter if we want it or not one way or another till we're further in hock then we already are personally and as a nation...
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Posted by: NoPCZone on May 30, 2009 8:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1-Clueless as to how to be effective.
2-Bought and paid for.
3-PINTOs that are nothing more than careerist politicians pandering to the progressives that have supported and worked to get them to Washington.
Last October, when the economic markets were in free fall, an unpopular lame duck was in the White House and the McSame campaign in self destruct mode the Democrats in Congress could have swung for the fences and didn't even get a bunt. Over overwhelming public opposition they gave a lame duck Republican a blank check or a banking bail out and got NOTHING for it. That's when I was sure that representative democracy was effectively dead in America.
The democrats could have given the bankers their bail out in exchange for EFCA, Bankruptcy reform and Universal healthcare- period. Make it an all or nothing package deal. The Rethugs would have given in and it would be a done deal. As it stands now, the Bankers got the bail out, we got the bill and the same interests that hot bailed out are lobbying against market reforms, union law reforms and healthcare reform.
Obama could have taken to the trail during the final weeks of the campaign based upon this package and had a real mandate that nobody could dispute. The Three Stooges: Obama, Pelosi & Reid obviously are more than a few stones short of a load and let this rare opportunity get by. I promise you the Republicans would have used the crisis to get EVERYTHING they wanted and then some.
Molly Ivins said George Bush was born on 3rd base and thought he hit a triple, but the democrats hit a Home Run in November and are treating it like a ground rule double. She also wrote this in her last months about the 2006 election:
"May I remind you what this election is about? Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, unprecedented presidential powers, unmatched incompetence, unparalleled corruption, unwarranted eavesdropping, Katrina, Enron, Halliburton, global warming, Cheney's secret energy task force, record oil company profits, $3 gasoline, FEMA, the Supreme Court, Diebold, Florida in 2000, Ohio in 2004, Terri Schiavo, stem cell research, golden parachutes, shrunken pensions, unavailable and expensive health care, habeas corpus, no weapons of mass destruction, sacrificed soldiers and Iraqi civilians, wasted billions, Taliban resurgence, expiration of the assault weapons ban, North Korea, Iran, intelligent design, swift boat hit squads, and on and on.
This election is about that, but much more -- it's about honor, dignity and comity in this country. It's about the Constitution, which gives us this great nation. Bush ran on a pledge of "restoring honor and integrity" to the White House. Instead, he brought us Tom DeLay, Roy Blunt, Katherine Harris, John Doolittle, Jerry Lewis, Richard Pombo, Mark Foley, Dennis Hastert, David Safavian, Jack Abramoff, Ralph Reed, Karl Rove and an illegal and immoral war in Iraq. People, it's up to you. "
Molly Ivins
Someone needs to remind our leaders why we sent them to Washington...
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» RE: This is their real agenda.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» Yup.
Posted by: freelyb
» I'm comnig to agree with you OC, but
Posted by: Drclaw
» RE: I'm a Green Party activist,
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: And thanks,
Posted by: oregoncharles
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on May 30, 2009 8:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: RegK on May 30, 2009 9:12 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» This is about as straight-forward as it gets...
Posted by: mcstewey
» Indeed
Posted by: freelyb
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Posted by: drhibbart on May 30, 2009 10:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Indeed...it's called "systematic imperatives"
Posted by: mcstewey
» True, but
Posted by: freelyb
» RE: Republicans remain out of power,
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Why would we care what Republicans think?
Posted by: oregoncharles
Comments are closed-
Posted by: willymack on May 30, 2009 12:52 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We all want good health care
We all want a safe workplace
We all want good schools for our children
We all want peace, and not endless, phony wars
We all want to hope that we can "get ahead"
We all want to retire in comfort and dignity
What's different today is:
We're less educated than we used to be
We're less involved in each others' lives
We're more insular and divided along political lines
We're more indifferent to world affairs
We're financially far worse off than before,due to corporate greed and crooked politics
We're far more crowded, polluted, and ripe for a self-inflicted disaster than EVER.
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» RE: Hey, we've ALWAYS been liberals and progressives at heart
Posted by: peterjkraus
» RE: I agree, but hopefully, we are seeing the devastation it's caused and are reverting to caring,
Posted by: judette
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Posted by: rgd on May 30, 2009 3:58 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» I think we are already there.
Posted by: freelyb
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on May 30, 2009 5:03 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have shoddy everything - government, jurisprudence,infrastructure, materials, food, entertainment, national infrastructure - name it - because the public ignorantly wants it. Soon, fine food, fine music, fine anything will no longer be available, because only ersatz and third-rate trash and garbage the ignorant want sells.
I saw it all coming the first time I was told that the pitifully amateurish cacophany coming from the stereo being played by a friends kids was "Beatle Music" and those inflicting it upon me were making millions because children with child-like sophistication about music had money and were buying it.
We're in a race to the intellectual, artistic, scientific bottom. Anything new, no matter how useless and pointless; anything sensational, no matter how vapid, or criminal, and more.
The monkey cage is running the menagerie that is running the U.S.
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Posted by: dealmeinfo2 on May 30, 2009 5:03 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
------------------------------------------------
Central Mechanical Minnesota Minnesota Property Preservation
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Posted by: judette on May 30, 2009 5:39 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Jeanne on May 30, 2009 7:22 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: booboo on May 30, 2009 10:18 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Peace on earth and goodwill to all living beings."
"The plan?"
"Mass uprisings."
"Leadership?"
"Each and everyone."
"The spirit?"
"Yes we can."
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Posted by: monkeywrench on May 31, 2009 6:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is a word to describe this: propaganda.
And it's not that the media simply "swallows it whole"; the media helps to CREATE this narrative. The five-or-so companies that now own virtually all of the mainstream media outlets are themselves owned and/or controlled by either members of the moneyed elite or by corporations that have defense contracts with the government – that ever-lovin' Military-Industrial Complex President Eisenhower warned us about.
We are being manipulated just as surely as if we had lived in the old Soviet Union, with Pravda and Isvestia as our only news sources. The only difference today is that the propaganda is more subtle and disguised (and pervasive), thanks to the influence of advertising, and that we as a people are not as sophisticated as russian citizens were at knowing when we are being lied to. We gobble up this stuff just like teenagers and twentysomethings gobble up the silliness and fakery of "reality" television shows. Our daily life, as seen through the mainstream media, has become one big reality show –– and just as fake.
We just cannot seem to get our minds around the idea that big corporations will lie to us and/or do anything else that improves their bottom lines, no matter how illegal or immoral – and we also seem incapable of rejecting lies by political pundits on the public airwaves that are so ridiculous an eight-year-old couldn't get them past his mommy! I am absolutely appalled at what these nitwits, like Hannity and Limbaugh, et al., and their "experts" try to pass off, yet, they get away with it, over and over again. Have so many of us really become that stooopid?
This is the result of a dumbed-down America, which has become so not only because of an educational breakdown, but also because of a deliberate effort on the part of corporations to turn us into advertising-addled morons that began with the invention of television and which now intrudes into every waking second of modern life. If current trends are any indication, that mission has been accomplished. This does not bode well for the continuance of a democracy, which depends, the Founding Fathers told us, on an educated and informed population – not a population that thinks it knows more because it is exposed to more stuff, more "information," no matter how trite, but a population that understands in depth. This is what we are losing, just as certainly as our nation is losing its place in the world. Actually, these are two sides of the same, tarnished, coin.
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Posted by: Tom Degan on May 31, 2009 6:53 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did you have a nice nap, kiddies?
"Judge Sonia Has Her day
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
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Posted by: SHRED on May 31, 2009 8:10 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where's your "bailout"?
Hummm...??
Check this out:
http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/21576
---
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Posted by: Southern Gal on May 31, 2009 8:54 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» I'm not so sure
Posted by: james108
» RE: True enough, but it's how we do politics.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Reinventing the Wheel
Posted by: oregoncharles
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Posted by: james108 on May 31, 2009 9:33 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most people do want an end to the wars, real civil rights and privacy back, universal human rights for those not proven to have done anything wrong, an end to the costly war on drugs and some examination of us having the highest incarcerations per capita.
Neither fake option of the "two party system" provides this though, and probably never will and never did. They may change the way they do it to capture the majority that seems to concede to them, sure. Out of sight, out of mind. They will not stop the imperialist push to control other countries for their own benefit though, including murders, assassinations, mercenaries, political suppression and spin control though. They're monsters the American people have allowed and unleashed, and it should be our responsibility to deal with it.
Many "conservatives" are really lashing out against the fascist, wasteful policies of the Democrats, where waste is really pork to line their backers parties. Republicans do this too. Republicans are no more delusional than Democrats in backing people and parties entirely against their real interests though. Add the two together, and the majority ends up backing people against their interest because the deck's rigged.
That's what bugs me more than anything about Obama and the democrats. They use the rhetoric of the things I hold dear, like concern for fellow man, and twist it into a perverted version of fascism, and take even more money from the common people to distribute to their billionaire backers. Instead of ending the charade of military tribunals, they just change a few of the details and call it true justice.
"No more torture" while hiring unaccountable mercenaries. "No more lobbyists" while putting these people directly in charge of things.
They use the rhetoric of protecting people and peace to support apartheid and violations in Gaza for example.
Republicans do this too, but people are so far to the left of either the Democratic or Republican parties, it's mostly the illusion of the democrats that's holding us back from real social justice.
They make us feel better about being a racist, fascist, violent nation by doing a few good things while spreading the bad parts even worse. Let's focus on a million dollars for clean coal and some turbines, while we destroy the environment, remove protection for our other areas even more and increase spying on people and pump up the military budget...
The people want better for sure, but they're never going to get it settling for and being enamored by chump change. As long as you empower the democratic party, there will be those scared so silly because they see it for what it is, that they think they need to support the republicans or something worse as the lesser of two evils. You can't support evil and blind yourself to it and be content with it, because there will be those that fight it with their own, and on and on, round and round we go...
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Posted by: troy on May 31, 2009 11:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The media is still run by the elites who benefit from the Conservative propaganda, therefore most Americans are effectively propagandized and will fall under carefully cultivated "conventional wisdom". Mr Obama is President because he is a wet dream for elite profiteers. The Democratic Party is far to the right of the Republican Party during Nixon's Administration. These polls show that the American people identify with catch-phrases which have little meaning any more (what is Liberal about corporate welfare?). Of, coaurse we have seen wishful thinking from Mr Holland before whether its dismissing "conspiracy theories" or seeing the empty glass and imaging it is full of water.
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» RE: Labels
Posted by: oregoncharles
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Posted by: DOUGLASFIELD on May 31, 2009 12:48 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THESE TWO HIGH PROFILE LEGAL CASES IN GEORGIA AND PENNSYLVANIA SHOULD ENLIGHTEN US ALL TO THE DIFFICULTIES OUR CURRENT U.S JUDICIAL SYSTEM HAS IN KNOWING BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT THAT THEY HAVE THE REAL CRIMINAL WAITING ON DEATH ROW TO BE EXECUTED!
WHEN ONE LOOKS AT THE CURRENT CRIMINAL FEDERAL APPEAL DEFENSE BEING OFFERED THESE TWO POORER DEATH ROW INMATES,WE ALL NEED TO BE A LITTLE MORE AWARE THAT HAVING REAL LEGAL REPRESENTATION FOR ONES FEDERAL APPEALS IS ONLY A VERY SMALL PORTION OF WHAT IS NEEDED IN ONES SEARCH FOR JUSTICE HERE! THESE TWO POSSIBLE INNOCENT AMERICAN CITIZENS NEVER HAD PROPER LEGAL REPRESENTATION IN THEIR FIRST TRIALS AND LETS NOT FORGET REAL REALITY HERE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AMERICA HAS NEVER OFFERED POORER AMERICANS A LEGITIMATE OPPORTUNITY TO PROVE ONES NON GUILT IN OUR U.S.JUDICIAL SYSTEM.IT TAKES REAL $$$ TO MAKE SURE OUR INNOCENT CITIZENS ARE PROTECTED,AND SADLY OUR U.S CONGRESS HAS NEVER THOUGHT MIDDLE CLASS AND WORKING POOR AMERICAN CITIZENS ARE WORTH THE OUTLAY OF FUNDING ??
FOR DECADES OUR IVORY TOWER U .S. CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS OF THE FREE WORLD HAVE ONLY LOOKED THE OTHER WAY IN EVEN THINKING ABOUT OFFERING THE LITTLE PEOPLE IN AMERICA JUSTICE IN OUR COURT ROOMS! NO, MONEY TALK$ IN OUR AMERICAN JUDICIAL $YSTEM, AND WE THE LITTLE PEOPLE IN AMERICA ARE BEING FALSELY INCARCERATED AND EXECUTED ALL ACROSS THIS THE WEALTHIEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD .............
WHEN LEGAL MINDS DO NOT HAVE THE PROPER INVESTIGATIVE MINDS WORKING IN CONJUCTION WITH THEM IN ANY OF THESE DEATH ROW LEGAL CASES,WE THE PUBLIC CAN NEVER REALLY KNOW THAT THE PEOPLE BEING EXECUTED IN THIS COUNTRY ARE THE REAL BAD GUYS !!!
LAWYERS FOR POOR AMERICANS HAS ALWAYS FELT THAT A FEDERAL TASK FORCE MADE UP OF TOP FLIGHT LAWYERS AND INVESTIGATORS IS NEEDED TO ASSURE US ALL THAT REAL JUSTICE IS BEING CARRIED OUT IN THESE EXECUTIONS NATIONWIDE.
SINCE ALL OF US ARE ALL VERY WELL AWARE OF HOW MANY AMERICANS LIE IN THEIR EVERYDAY PERSONAL AND BUSINESS AFFAIRS,YOU WOULD THINK WE WOULD ALL BE ALOT BRIGHTER IN KNOWING THAT HONEST TESTIMONY IS ALSO NOT HAPPENING IN OUR COURT ROOMS ACROSS OUR COUNTRY AS WELL? YES IT WOULD BE WONDERFUL IF EVERYONE WERE HONEST IN AMERICA,NOT JUST THE CRIMINALS BEING TRIED,CONVICTED AND THEN EXECUTED BY OTHER LIARS,CHEATS AND THIEFS IN COURTS ALL ACROSS AMERICA. ... THERE BY THE GRACE OF GOD GO I ???
lawyersforpooramericans@yahoo.com (424-247-2013)
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Posted by: amacd on May 31, 2009 3:42 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ralph was the first to detect, by talking with average Americans, that his positions were the "majoritarian positions" on most issues.
I'll bet today, that if the pollsters had the guts to ask it, that a majority of Americans would be in agreement with Nader's 2008 campaign position that America is now ruled by a ruling-elite 'political-economic Empire' not unlike the British Empire that oppressed our political, economic, and social spheres of life in 1775 --- and that the British Empire's royal governors and British Empire's royally chartered East India Corporation were very similar to our current corporate overlords and their two-party 'Vichy' politicians and media.
Alan MacDonald
Sanford, Maine
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» RE: alph Nader was first to understand this, but still wouldn't run for any office other than. . .
Posted by: Beck
» Maybe it's you that doesn't care
Posted by: james108
» Panty-wetting Obama ass kisser at it again. FUCK YOU !
Posted by: John More
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Posted by: Jack Canuck on May 31, 2009 4:23 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I remember during the Democratic primary, when there were 8 or 9 condenders for the nomination, one website, it might even have been Alternet, posted a survey on 19 different issues, with opinions ranging on a scale of 0-4 in order to measure the rank of importance those who took the survey gave to the issues. Those opinions were matched with those expressed by the candidates. It turned out that my opinions matched up best with Mike Gravell, and then Dennis Kucinich. It also turned out that Kucinich and Gravell also finished first and second among those that took the survey by a wide majority, yet both were deemed to "fringe candidates" by the media, and thus became fringe candidates.
Popular opinion does not mean much in the US, except perhaps when it comes to questions such as gay marriage.
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Posted by: midwing on May 31, 2009 5:25 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But the bottom line is: the candidate with the most money wins. Where did Obama get all of his money?
You got it.... from the corporations!
Now he owes them, and is obviously paying up, despite having to renige on so many of his campaign promises.
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» Granted
Posted by: james108
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Posted by: helmunator on May 31, 2009 8:38 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: halg on May 31, 2009 11:02 PM
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I meant Gordon Brown, not Tony Brown.
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Posted by: Comrade Laissez-Faire on Jun 6, 2009 10:52 AM
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Posted by: menokia on Jun 25, 2009 8:35 PM
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نوكيا الشرق الاوسط
دليل المواقع
العاب فلاشيه
دردشة
طب الاعشاب
Site Map
احدث اجهزة نوكيا
برامج نوكيا
برامج نوكيا الجيل الثالث
برامج الجوال العربية
برامج نوكيا الجيل الخامس
شاشات التوقف - خطوط الجوال
تعريب البرامج , كسر البرامج
العاب جوال
العاب نوكيا الجيل الثالث
العاب الانجيج الجيل الثالث
العاب نوكيا الجيل الخامس
ثيمات الجوال
ثيمات نوكيا الجيل الثالث
ثيمات نوكيا الجيل الخامس
مسجات
فديو
اناشيد
نغمات, تحميل نغمات
اي فون
سوني اريكسون
برامج كمبيوتر
برامج الحماية و الصيانة
برامج المالتيميديا, برامج الصوتيات, برامج الفيديو
شرح استخدام البرامج
العاب الكترونية, العاب الكمبيوتر, العاب بلاي ستيشن
افلام سينما
تحميل افلام عربية
تحميل افلام اجنبية
منتدى السيارات
صور
نكات, صرقعه
اعشاب طبية
عالم حواء
الديكور و الأثاث المنزلي - The Design and Decor Section
تحديث سوفت وير نوكيا
خيمة رمضان
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