COMMENTS: 229
Obama's Economic Plan Is Not Going to Save Us
January 22, 2009 |
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The nation's fast-darkening circumstances define the essential dilemma of Barack Obama's presidency. His instinct is to govern by consensus, in the moderate middle ground of politics. Yet dire events are pushing the new president toward solutions more fundamental than those he had intended. The longer he resists taking more forceful action, the more likely it is that he will be overwhelmed by the gathering adversities.
Three large obstacles are blocking Obama's path. The first is one of scale: his nearly $800 billion recovery package sounds huge, but it is perhaps two or three times too small to produce a turnaround. The second is that the financial system--still dysfunctional despite the bailouts--requires much more than fiscal stimulus and bailout: the government must nationalize and supervise the banks to ensure that they carry out the lending and investing needed for recovery. This means liquidating some famous nameplates--led by Citigroup--that are spiraling toward insolvency. The third is that the crisis is global: the US economy cannot return to normal unless the unbalanced world trading system is simultaneously reformed. Globalization has vastly undermined US productive strength, as trade deficits have led the nation into deepening debtor dependence.
While Washington debates the terms of Obama's stimulus package, others see disappointment ahead. The Levy Economics Institute of Bard College, an outpost of Keynesian thinking, expresses its doubts in emotional language that professional economists seldom use. "The prospects for the US economy have become uniquely dreadful, if not frightening," Levy analysts reported. The institute's updated strategic analysis warns that the magnitude of negative forces--the virtual collapse of bank lending, private spending, consumer incomes and demand--"will make it impossible for US authorities to apply a fiscal and monetary stimulus large enough to return output and unemployment to tolerable levels within the next two years." Instead, the unemployment rate is likely to rise to 10 percent by 2010. Obama's package amounts only to around 3 percent, annually, of GDP in a $13 trillion economy. Levy's analysis calculates that it would require federal deficits of 8 to 10 percent of GDP--$2 trillion or more--to reverse the economic contraction. And yet, the institute observed, it is inconceivable that this level "could be tolerated for purely political reasons" or that the United States could sustain the rising indebtedness without terrifying our leading creditors, like China.
Stimulus alone by a single nation will not work, in other words, given the distorted economic system that Obama has inherited. The stern warning from the Levy analysts and other skeptical experts is that the United States has no choice but to undertake deeper systemic reforms right now, rather than wait for recovery. Will Obama have the nerve to tackle these fundamentals? To do so he would have to abandon some orthodox assumptions about free trade and private finance that he shares with his economic advisers.
The most obvious and immediate obstacle to systemic change is the dysfunctional financial system. It remains inert and hunkered down in self-protection, despite the vast billions in public money distributed so freely, no strings attached, in the last days of the Bush administration. We will learn soon enough whether Obama intends to start over with a more forceful approach. Obama and his advisers are eager to get another $350 billion in bailout funds, but they have remained silent on whether this will finance a government takeover of the system. Without such a move, the taxpayers will essentially be financing the slow death of failed institutions while getting nothing in return.
William Greider has been a political journalist for more than thirty-five years. A former Rolling Stone and Washington Post editor, he is the author of the national bestsellers One World, Ready or Not, Secrets of the Temple, Who Will Tell The People, The Soul of Capitalism (Simon & Schuster) and--due out in February from Rodale--Come Home, America.
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Great article but Two Things ... Health Care and Taxes
Posted by: mmckinl on Jan 22, 2009 12:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: mmckinl on Jan 22, 2009 12:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would add two caveats ... and they are :
~ Medicare for All ... pays for everyones medical care
~ The well to do and corporations pay higher taxes. That all income be taxed as ordinary income and that tax loopholes be closed.
Tax Cuts ?
We need tax increases on the well to do and the Democrats should start to combat the rhetoric of tax cuts ASAP. We don't need more private investment. The whole problem with loans right now is that too much money was invested in production. And that is why we should get rid of the capital gains tax, the estate tax, the dividend tax and turn them all into regular income taxes, there is little need for capital in the private sector for new investment.
The second reason for tax increases is the budget deficit. As we all know it is skyrocketing. We have to close this gap. One could make the argument that these are taxes that Bush should have levied to pay for two wars and now the chickens have come home to roost. Before Bush, every war was accompanied by a tax increase to pay for it.
The third reason for tax increases is that it will help thwart speculation. Speculation ran rampant from 1925-1929, 1996-2000 and 2004-2006. The commonality ? Lowered tax rates ...
The fourth reason is that tax rates are historically low. A top rate of 38% is near 75 year lows, capital gains and dividends rates at 15% are both at their historic lows. We need more receipts for repayment of war debt, social programs for the current economic crisis and to help balance the budget because of the budget neglect of 8 years of Republican rule.
We need to promote tax increases on the well to do often and vigorously for all of the above reasons and to counter the Conservative mantra of tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts. Without the debate the Conservatives hold all the cards ... Yet all I hear from Obama's economists is that we need to look at SSI and Medicare, this is Bull Shit. We need to look at tax increases first and foremost.
~ Medicare for All ... pays for everyones medical care
~ The well to do and corporations pay higher taxes. That all income be taxed as ordinary income and that tax loopholes be closed.
Tax Cuts ?
We need tax increases on the well to do and the Democrats should start to combat the rhetoric of tax cuts ASAP. We don't need more private investment. The whole problem with loans right now is that too much money was invested in production. And that is why we should get rid of the capital gains tax, the estate tax, the dividend tax and turn them all into regular income taxes, there is little need for capital in the private sector for new investment.
The second reason for tax increases is the budget deficit. As we all know it is skyrocketing. We have to close this gap. One could make the argument that these are taxes that Bush should have levied to pay for two wars and now the chickens have come home to roost. Before Bush, every war was accompanied by a tax increase to pay for it.
The third reason for tax increases is that it will help thwart speculation. Speculation ran rampant from 1925-1929, 1996-2000 and 2004-2006. The commonality ? Lowered tax rates ...
The fourth reason is that tax rates are historically low. A top rate of 38% is near 75 year lows, capital gains and dividends rates at 15% are both at their historic lows. We need more receipts for repayment of war debt, social programs for the current economic crisis and to help balance the budget because of the budget neglect of 8 years of Republican rule.
We need to promote tax increases on the well to do often and vigorously for all of the above reasons and to counter the Conservative mantra of tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts. Without the debate the Conservatives hold all the cards ... Yet all I hear from Obama's economists is that we need to look at SSI and Medicare, this is Bull Shit. We need to look at tax increases first and foremost.
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» This was Obama's mandate
Posted by: scheherezade
» How does this author know what Obama's "INTENT" was???
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: How does this author know what Obama's "INTENT" was???
Posted by: willymack
» I thought you ragged on Obama because you were on the rag...
Posted by: kimbari
» Here's a caveat for you
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: Here's a caveat for you
Posted by: mmckinl
» I am unsure of what you just said.... are you saying no more anything economic ....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Post Your Health Care and Taxes Comments to the White House web site
Posted by: blondesprite
» Well to do pay more taxes????
Posted by: 2thepoint
Comments are closed-
Well, Sure...
Posted by: RevolutionNet on Jan 22, 2009 12:45 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: RevolutionNet on Jan 22, 2009 12:45 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wasn't that the point all along? To "Carterize" Obama by creating conditions that will make 8+ more years of nazism inevitable?
Do you actually think that any of this is arbitrary?
FREE AMERICA
REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY
Do you actually think that any of this is arbitrary?
FREE AMERICA
REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Well, Sure...
Posted by: Perry Logan
» RE: Well, Sure...
Posted by: maxfactor
» Way to go, Beck!
Posted by: hagwind
» Good Point!
Posted by: RevolutionNet
» Sure Dick!..lets go back to Bush economics!!
Posted by: donl51
» How do you know what Obama really advocates??? Do you know him...
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Brace for impact
Posted by: ender on Jan 22, 2009 1:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: ender on Jan 22, 2009 1:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nothing we do will have any lasting effects until people have good paying jobs. A solid middle class is the foundation of a strong economy. Workers salaries must be protected from foreign slave wages by bringing back the labor tariffs that ensured American labor was competitive internationally.
Nothing we do will have any lasting effects as long as the Federal Reserve remains in place. See http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com and addendum for a brilliant tutorial on the biggest Ponzi scheme of all.
Nothing we do will have any effects as long as the criminals remain unpunished and lobbyists/industries operate without strong, enforced regulations.
Nothing we do will have any effects as long as fines for breaking laws are minimal. When fines for illegal activities cost companies pennies on the dollar, fines become simply part of the cost of doing business. And corporations must be stripped of their bogus "personhood" status.
Nothing we do will have any lasting effects if we do not return to being a meritocracy and a more egalitarian economic system. The whole thing that is crashing down before our eyes right now was glaringly obvious to anyone with a 7th grader's understanding of math who was paying attention, but it is the "experts" who didn't see this coming (and NEVER do) and those already in power that have the golden parachutes. The rest of us get the bill...and the shaft.
Trillions of dollars could be saved right now by cutting the bloated military budget, enacting universal healthcare and ending the "war on drugs," but it's unlikely that any of these will be done.
BTW, when do students with loans get their bailout money?
Best of luck to everyone.
Nothing we do will have any lasting effects as long as the Federal Reserve remains in place. See http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com and addendum for a brilliant tutorial on the biggest Ponzi scheme of all.
Nothing we do will have any effects as long as the criminals remain unpunished and lobbyists/industries operate without strong, enforced regulations.
Nothing we do will have any effects as long as fines for breaking laws are minimal. When fines for illegal activities cost companies pennies on the dollar, fines become simply part of the cost of doing business. And corporations must be stripped of their bogus "personhood" status.
Nothing we do will have any lasting effects if we do not return to being a meritocracy and a more egalitarian economic system. The whole thing that is crashing down before our eyes right now was glaringly obvious to anyone with a 7th grader's understanding of math who was paying attention, but it is the "experts" who didn't see this coming (and NEVER do) and those already in power that have the golden parachutes. The rest of us get the bill...and the shaft.
Trillions of dollars could be saved right now by cutting the bloated military budget, enacting universal healthcare and ending the "war on drugs," but it's unlikely that any of these will be done.
BTW, when do students with loans get their bailout money?
Best of luck to everyone.
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» No, we can't wait, although I do empathize
Posted by: Beck
» WEll, you go right ahead Beck, but you obviously didn't hear about....
Posted by: Prophit
» There are plenty of local specialty chocolate shops, Prophit
Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: Brace for impact
Posted by: HoldmAccountable
» RE: Brace for impact
Posted by: Shey
» Yup, just wait and see..... I agree wholeheartedly with that.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Brace for impact
Posted by: ender
» RE: Brace for impact
Posted by: maglindracia
» RE: Brace for impact
Posted by: ender
» RE: Don't be silly -
Posted by: TheLimit
» You're in for a big surprise
Posted by: donl51
» I agree with you to some extent, but when the slavery is done by ....
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Man , that's it?
Posted by: shinseiji on Jan 22, 2009 2:17 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: shinseiji on Jan 22, 2009 2:17 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sounds like a regular s#$t storm is headed our way.
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» RE: Man , that's it?
Posted by: QuestionAuthority
Comments are closed-
Dear Mr. Greider
Posted by: boboh7 on Jan 22, 2009 2:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: boboh7 on Jan 22, 2009 2:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You, and most everyone else, are failing to propose the key element that must be included in an economic recovery program if it is to succeed: Nationalize the Federal Reserve (repeal the Federal Reserve Act of 1913) and retrieve the authority provided to our federal government in the constitution to create the nation's money. The present privatized system causes the national debt to increase each time money is created (by the Fed's process of creating money by monetizing debt) and then taxes must be raised to service that growing debt. Nationalize money creation for federal programs and there will be no debt and no interest and much lower taxes. Of course other changes will be needed too but this is the only one I have not seen being discussed. I know the objections to it and they can be obviated easily. There are so many huge advantages to we the people by doing this that it would take more words than you allow to discuss them all.
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» RE: Dear Mr. Greider
Posted by: praedor
» RE: JFK tried
Posted by: Sushi
» John Alexander McCone was head of the CIA when JFK was assassinated,
Posted by: LeftWright
» here's another not discussed
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Dear Mr. Greider
Posted by: ron heringhauser
Comments are closed-
I need "Economics for Dummies :-)
Posted by: watching-n-waiting on Jan 22, 2009 3:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: watching-n-waiting on Jan 22, 2009 3:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Economics sure isn't my forte- to be completely honest this downfall makes not one iota of sense to me other than obvious things such as the idiocy of paying CEOS $17,000 an hour (or was that per minute?) and then a 13 million dollar retirement bonus because "his failure could have been worse".
Even more insane was the "they're too big to fail" thing followed by 350 billion in TARP funding so that they could merge, thus making themselves even bigger.
Again, this isn't my area so I don't know what is and is not realistic. Therefore I'll just fantasize... a half dozen small measures that make sense to me (in my very limited understanding) are:
(i) Simply recall that money (the 350 billion). Paulson was instructed to be transparent. Instead he has been secretive and cagey. Okay- right, then return the money (it's got to be somewhere).
(ii) I run a household, a micro-economy. One budgeting concept that works for me is to purchase quality so that I only have to "buy it" once.
Translated to supporting the economy I'd have to say a sensible "purchase" would be single payer health care. If we stabilize the health of our population there will be considerably less economic pressure brought to bare.
(iii) Executive order#1 (I did say this is a fantasy): force big oil to take those windfall profits and bailout the auto industry for whose benefit all those gas-guzzlers were manufactured.
(iv) Executive order #2: force Blackwater and Haliburton to finance the exit from Iraq since Iraq was staged for their benefit.
(v) Freeze ALL aid to Israel (I know in the great grand sceme of things that's pocket change but it all adds up).
(vi) OF COURSE freeze foreclosures.
(vii) And be certain to include (for frikken christ sake) the rebuilding of New Orleans in the greening of our infrastructure restoration.
Sorry to have offer such a lay-persons perspective. I'll be sure to follow this thread cuz I'm sure I will glean from it a more nuanced perspective.
Even more insane was the "they're too big to fail" thing followed by 350 billion in TARP funding so that they could merge, thus making themselves even bigger.
Again, this isn't my area so I don't know what is and is not realistic. Therefore I'll just fantasize... a half dozen small measures that make sense to me (in my very limited understanding) are:
(i) Simply recall that money (the 350 billion). Paulson was instructed to be transparent. Instead he has been secretive and cagey. Okay- right, then return the money (it's got to be somewhere).
(ii) I run a household, a micro-economy. One budgeting concept that works for me is to purchase quality so that I only have to "buy it" once.
Translated to supporting the economy I'd have to say a sensible "purchase" would be single payer health care. If we stabilize the health of our population there will be considerably less economic pressure brought to bare.
(iii) Executive order#1 (I did say this is a fantasy): force big oil to take those windfall profits and bailout the auto industry for whose benefit all those gas-guzzlers were manufactured.
(iv) Executive order #2: force Blackwater and Haliburton to finance the exit from Iraq since Iraq was staged for their benefit.
(v) Freeze ALL aid to Israel (I know in the great grand sceme of things that's pocket change but it all adds up).
(vi) OF COURSE freeze foreclosures.
(vii) And be certain to include (for frikken christ sake) the rebuilding of New Orleans in the greening of our infrastructure restoration.
Sorry to have offer such a lay-persons perspective. I'll be sure to follow this thread cuz I'm sure I will glean from it a more nuanced perspective.
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» RE: I need "Economics for Dummies :-) (GREAT Post.)
Posted by: Jayzer
» RE: LOL, you flatter me Jayzer...
Posted by: watching-n-waiting
» RE: LOL, you flatter me Jayzer...
Posted by: watching-n-waiting
» RE: OOPS posted twice instead of this:
Posted by: watching-n-waiting
» RE: OOPS posted twice instead of this:
Posted by: maglindracia
» RE: I need "Economics for Dummies :-) (GREAT Post.)
Posted by: donl51
» RE: I need "Economics for Dummies :-)
Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: I need "Economics for Dummies :-)
Posted by: Shey
» RE: I need "Economics for Dummies :-)
Posted by: maglindracia
Comments are closed-
Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: editnetwork on Jan 22, 2009 4:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: editnetwork on Jan 22, 2009 4:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Economies cannot grow indefinitely on a finite planet, especially one so crowded.
This is unpleasant news to the left wing of the Corporocrat party, but predicating health on growth as the sine qua non is like depending on cancer to reach mature size -- and the analogy breaks down faster than most.
We need an entirely different basis of economic health in the world today, and one way or another it's probably coming down to local exchange systems -- not "globalization." (Let's trash that one while we're at it: another mechanism for deflecting wealth in the direction of the wealthy.) Grow and buy local -- keep the corner hardware store in business rather than the big box miles away.
To say that the "fundamentals" need reexamination is looking like the understatement of the new century. Echoing another who commented earlier: good luck to all of us.
This is unpleasant news to the left wing of the Corporocrat party, but predicating health on growth as the sine qua non is like depending on cancer to reach mature size -- and the analogy breaks down faster than most.
We need an entirely different basis of economic health in the world today, and one way or another it's probably coming down to local exchange systems -- not "globalization." (Let's trash that one while we're at it: another mechanism for deflecting wealth in the direction of the wealthy.) Grow and buy local -- keep the corner hardware store in business rather than the big box miles away.
To say that the "fundamentals" need reexamination is looking like the understatement of the new century. Echoing another who commented earlier: good luck to all of us.
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» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go (ALSO an Excellent Post)
Posted by: Jayzer
» RE: yeah Shibboleth I agree with jayzer...
Posted by: watching-n-waiting
» RE: yeah Shibboleth I agree with jayzer...
Posted by: Beck
» You still think these powerful fascists give a rats butt about workers?
Posted by: Prophit
» Are you Bi-Polar??? Either high as a kite or depressed and doomed.
Posted by: Prophit
» KICK OUT THE DAMN BANKERS....I agree, but How?
Posted by: chance garden
» RE: yeah Shibboleth I agree with jayzer...
Posted by: maglindracia
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: QuestionAuthority
» Come on people, what did you expect when our agriculture....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: Shey
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: Shey
» Oh, I have no doubt your right about that one....... maybe not...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: praedor
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: maglindracia
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: SteveO
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: Shey
» RE: Exactly: Look up Herman Daly
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: monkeywrench
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: Shey
Comments are closed-
If anyone thinks they
Posted by: avidAmerican on Jan 22, 2009 5:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: avidAmerican on Jan 22, 2009 5:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
can do better, let them all come forward right now and save us. He can't do it alone, we also need to help ourselves. So just get up off your butts and get out there and do what you can to help us.
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» Amen to that
Posted by: Beck
» You know, Beck, you either harping about how glorious Obama is ....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: If anyone thinks they
Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: If anyone thinks they
Posted by: Shey
» And certainly not by Obama's supporters either....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: If I could let the banks fail, I would
Posted by: DCostello2
Comments are closed-
If you're waiting on some politician to save you...
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Jan 22, 2009 5:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Jan 22, 2009 5:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...then you're doing it wrong.
I'd be thrilled if he contributed something to just not getting it wrong, in my name as a citizen.
Ok, it would have been nice if some of our politicians would have gotten up off their grand keisters (Blanco) or shown a tad more interest during the crisis (Bush and FEMA) when Katrina hit those who chose to ride out the storm. When you have zero other places to turn, it would be nice if a politician or two used a few of our tax dollars to salvage some lives in a jiff.
Economically? No thanks. Just watching those we trust a little better with decent regulation, stopping the monopolization, and deconstructing public-private behemoths that remove responsible lending from the principle job of local banks, and I think he'd do just fine.
No white knight riding in necessary, certainly no need to live my life in daily anxiety over what BHO is going to do for me today. At the end of four or eight years, if he's simply not screwed up things worse and has managed to fix a few things, I'm sure I'll be having a Scotch in his honor as one of the few thoughtful and successful people the demoboobs and republicats have offered us in my lifetime.
So, listen, we've set our expectations fairly low, BHO: don't eff this up. You fulfilled your campaign promise of "change" by not actually being GWB...now go forth and do something not terrible!
I'd be thrilled if he contributed something to just not getting it wrong, in my name as a citizen.
Ok, it would have been nice if some of our politicians would have gotten up off their grand keisters (Blanco) or shown a tad more interest during the crisis (Bush and FEMA) when Katrina hit those who chose to ride out the storm. When you have zero other places to turn, it would be nice if a politician or two used a few of our tax dollars to salvage some lives in a jiff.
Economically? No thanks. Just watching those we trust a little better with decent regulation, stopping the monopolization, and deconstructing public-private behemoths that remove responsible lending from the principle job of local banks, and I think he'd do just fine.
No white knight riding in necessary, certainly no need to live my life in daily anxiety over what BHO is going to do for me today. At the end of four or eight years, if he's simply not screwed up things worse and has managed to fix a few things, I'm sure I'll be having a Scotch in his honor as one of the few thoughtful and successful people the demoboobs and republicats have offered us in my lifetime.
So, listen, we've set our expectations fairly low, BHO: don't eff this up. You fulfilled your campaign promise of "change" by not actually being GWB...now go forth and do something not terrible!
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» Of course you're right with regard to what we SHOULD expect...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Hahaha, so the expectations are decreasing as we speak.
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Talk the talk
Posted by: beandang on Jan 22, 2009 5:56 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: beandang on Jan 22, 2009 5:56 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One thing we all know for sure, Obama can give great speeches. He can "Talk the talk". What we want to know now is, can he Walk the Walk? I guess time will tell.
RT
Is your ISP watching you?
RT
Is your ISP watching you?
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» RE: Talk the talk; walked the walk his first day
Posted by: Beck
» Given the level of seriousness of our financial predicament, those are nothing....
Posted by: Prophit
» Really? I thought it was that since he was returning to Clinton's policies, it wasn't even change
Posted by: Beck
» Now this is a perfect example of what I have been trying to say to you...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Talk the talk; walked the walk his first day
Posted by: Shey
» RE: Talk the talk
Posted by: avidAmerican
» Yup, he has the glib say nothing ability to speak and everyone....
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Ok, I have my reservations about Obama but he has 4 years to straighten out this mess.
Posted by: jwverez on Jan 22, 2009 6:44 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: jwverez on Jan 22, 2009 6:44 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sure, I'll still keep my fingers crossed but you all should do what my wife does. Reach out and try to communicate with him and his team and while you all are at it, get your local pols to communicate with Obama if you all really want Washington to open up.
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» I just tried that yesterday, and it didn't work... let me know if you...
Posted by: Prophit
» http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
Posted by: Beck
» Beck. Thank you for the URL
Posted by: Dixie Dawg
» RE: http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
Posted by: Shey
» Well, finally, someone addressing the reality, its refreshing... thanks
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
There is no solution
Posted by: Gregory Kruse on Jan 22, 2009 6:57 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Gregory Kruse on Jan 22, 2009 6:57 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some banks will survive. Industries will forsake U.S. citizenship before they pay higher taxes. China, India, and Russia, not to mention Japan, will not help us out of the hole we are in, and even if they do, they won't then jump into the hole we just got out of. We have to start making the things we need ourselves even if it costs more to do so. We need to put our smart people to work running businesses that need workers and pay taxes. What are the chances that will happen?
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» RE: There is no solution
Posted by: Shey
» RE: There is no solution
Posted by: satwa.gunam
Comments are closed-
rebuild with a new operating system
Posted by: Craig Collier on Jan 22, 2009 6:59 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Craig Collier on Jan 22, 2009 6:59 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author is dead on. Without using the recovery stimulus to rebuild seriously measurable value into the American system, we cannot ask world markets to support the effort. If we place the recovery funds into the same operating process that got us here, we cannot expect different reuslts. No amout of money would be enough. The first step must be to change the vision of the process. A recent Obama quote about the recovery is a start. "-economic recovery plan is going to be focused on how we can make a series of down payments-". An extension of this might be- how can WE finance the rest of the recovery. Short sighted finance has leveraged us into this situation so long term finance should leverage us out. Michael Lind writing at solon.com calls for the single most important reform to be the creation of a national infrastructure bank that would enable long term bond financing based on public will. WE believe, WE create the finance mechanism, WE build the infrastructure value, and WE extend the opportunity to anyone else in the world that wants to participate. WE have been financing unnatural growth around the world with our debt and now we have a chance to stabilize that growth with our vision.
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» Oh, good, somebody addressing the serious issues.....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Oh, good, somebody addressing the serious issues.....
Posted by: Craig Collier
» Excellent analysis and a good foundation for a beginning.....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: xcellent analysis and a good foundation for a beginning.....
Posted by: Craig Collier
Comments are closed-
Obama's Leaky Rowboat
Posted by: welshTerrier2 on Jan 22, 2009 7:04 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: welshTerrier2 on Jan 22, 2009 7:04 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now is the time to lay down a new vision for change. Yes, we all understand the urgency of the fiscal distress. Yes, we all understand that putting the country back to work can have some positive effects. We will fail, and fail large, if we do not change the essence of our society. Without a larger vision, throwing money at jobs will be only a stop gap.
The total collapse of the US economic system was inevitable. To see it as little more than Bush's incompetence, as so many Democrats do, or to see it primarily as a regulatory failure, as so many Democrats do, yields too much power to those who are blind to the real causes of our current plight.
Greider hits the nail on the head when he calls for "new rules for US multinational enterprises that redefine their obligations to the home economy." We have empowered corporations to act in THEIR self-interest at the expense of the American people. American capitalism has codified and legitimized treason. How long did you think we could survive using that script?
Start with three essential truths before making specific plans for economic recovery.
First, as stated above, we must change the rules that define how domestic corporations operate. We must define our national objectives and then ensure that corporate goals are aligned with our agenda. Those that fail to cooperate should be punished through the tax code. We cannot allow powerful corporations to define our national policies as they have done for far too long.
Second is that global resources are finite and that our current consumer society cannot be sustained. Obama doesn't get that; the Congress doesn't get that; the American people don't get that. We need to make drastic changes in the way we use energy. We need to make drastic changes in the way we grow and distribute our food. We need to make drastic changes in the way we design our communities especially with regard (or lack thereof) to both transportation and water utilization. Twisty little light bulbs and 10 more miles per gallon from CAFE standards are not even close to what needs to change. Every aspect of our society needs to be re-engineered so that we can work towards a sustainable lifestyle.
Third is the globalization of jobs. At any level of economic activity, no country can survive when it permits its corporations to reap benefits from government contracts, favored tax treatment, stable consumer markets and an excessive voice in government while simultaneously allowing the exporting of jobs. A nation that consumes without producing will soon consume nothing at all. That's where we are today. Advertising, incredibly low prices, special financing and all the rest of the gimmicks can't change that. Jobs are indeed an important element of recovery but going deeply into debt to create public jobs WITHOUT REPAIRING THE "JOB LEAK" OF GLOBALIZATION is a dead end. Got that? Calling for an FDR-style public works program is a dead-end unless you first fix the leak in the rowboat. Obama doesn't get that either. He's given power to Clinton's globalization puppets.
The changes called for here cannot happen overnight. There is an urgency to the crisis we face and prompt action, perhaps starting as a massive public works stimulus package, can be part of a larger plan. But, Obama and his colleagues lack the vision of that which must be changed. They, like most Americans, nostalgically cling to the "good old days". They believe that a mere correction in course will set things right again. Until the gaping holes in the hull are repaired, i.e. until we as a nation understand and remedy the deficiencies in our institutions, no course is safe and no recovery is possible.
The total collapse of the US economic system was inevitable. To see it as little more than Bush's incompetence, as so many Democrats do, or to see it primarily as a regulatory failure, as so many Democrats do, yields too much power to those who are blind to the real causes of our current plight.
Greider hits the nail on the head when he calls for "new rules for US multinational enterprises that redefine their obligations to the home economy." We have empowered corporations to act in THEIR self-interest at the expense of the American people. American capitalism has codified and legitimized treason. How long did you think we could survive using that script?
Start with three essential truths before making specific plans for economic recovery.
First, as stated above, we must change the rules that define how domestic corporations operate. We must define our national objectives and then ensure that corporate goals are aligned with our agenda. Those that fail to cooperate should be punished through the tax code. We cannot allow powerful corporations to define our national policies as they have done for far too long.
Second is that global resources are finite and that our current consumer society cannot be sustained. Obama doesn't get that; the Congress doesn't get that; the American people don't get that. We need to make drastic changes in the way we use energy. We need to make drastic changes in the way we grow and distribute our food. We need to make drastic changes in the way we design our communities especially with regard (or lack thereof) to both transportation and water utilization. Twisty little light bulbs and 10 more miles per gallon from CAFE standards are not even close to what needs to change. Every aspect of our society needs to be re-engineered so that we can work towards a sustainable lifestyle.
Third is the globalization of jobs. At any level of economic activity, no country can survive when it permits its corporations to reap benefits from government contracts, favored tax treatment, stable consumer markets and an excessive voice in government while simultaneously allowing the exporting of jobs. A nation that consumes without producing will soon consume nothing at all. That's where we are today. Advertising, incredibly low prices, special financing and all the rest of the gimmicks can't change that. Jobs are indeed an important element of recovery but going deeply into debt to create public jobs WITHOUT REPAIRING THE "JOB LEAK" OF GLOBALIZATION is a dead end. Got that? Calling for an FDR-style public works program is a dead-end unless you first fix the leak in the rowboat. Obama doesn't get that either. He's given power to Clinton's globalization puppets.
The changes called for here cannot happen overnight. There is an urgency to the crisis we face and prompt action, perhaps starting as a massive public works stimulus package, can be part of a larger plan. But, Obama and his colleagues lack the vision of that which must be changed. They, like most Americans, nostalgically cling to the "good old days". They believe that a mere correction in course will set things right again. Until the gaping holes in the hull are repaired, i.e. until we as a nation understand and remedy the deficiencies in our institutions, no course is safe and no recovery is possible.
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» Very well analyzed and presented..... thanks
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Very well analyzed and presented..... thanks
Posted by: welshTerrier2
» RE: Very well analyzed and presented..... thanks
Posted by: welshTerrier2
» In other words, bring our military home from all those foreign bases....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Obama's Leaky Rowboat
Posted by: maglindracia
» RE: Obama's Leaky Rowboat
Posted by: welshTerrier2
Comments are closed-
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
Comments are closed-
What Milwaukee needs.....
Posted by: AJR Journal on Jan 22, 2009 7:17 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: AJR Journal on Jan 22, 2009 7:17 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. Cut corporate tax rates to ZERO. Milwaukee is home to at least 6 Fortune 500 firms (Johnson Controls, Manpower, Harley-Davidson, Kohl's, among others). Reducing the tax rate to zero will allow them to grow, make more hires, and to continue to be pillars of the Milwaukee community and economy.
2. Expand free trade. Milwaukee exports highly-crafted goods to the rest of the worl, GE MRI and CAT scanners, P&H and Bucyrus mining equipment, Herley motorcycles, among others. Free trade agreements that lower tariffs and barriers help Milwaukee, its workers, and its businesses.
3. More immigration. Recent immigration to Milwaukee by Mexicans, Colombians, Somalians, Hmong, etc. has rejuvenated inner city neighborhoods, created dozens of new businesses, and slowed the hollowing-out of Milwaukee's central city. Increased immigration stabilizes Milwaukee and allows it to regain a portion of its lost population.
Now there is a stimulus plan!
2. Expand free trade. Milwaukee exports highly-crafted goods to the rest of the worl, GE MRI and CAT scanners, P&H and Bucyrus mining equipment, Herley motorcycles, among others. Free trade agreements that lower tariffs and barriers help Milwaukee, its workers, and its businesses.
3. More immigration. Recent immigration to Milwaukee by Mexicans, Colombians, Somalians, Hmong, etc. has rejuvenated inner city neighborhoods, created dozens of new businesses, and slowed the hollowing-out of Milwaukee's central city. Increased immigration stabilizes Milwaukee and allows it to regain a portion of its lost population.
Now there is a stimulus plan!
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» How much were you paid to write that?
Posted by: and_abottleofrum
» RE: What Milwaukee needs.....
Posted by: praedor
» Unless you build a wall
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» A big myth Economic growth and profitable investment opportunity not corporate tax rates matter most
Posted by: yellow
» What America needs.....
Posted by: MausMasher54
» Milwaukee is a great city
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» aren't you describing the very system that just failed?
Posted by: watching-n-waiting
» A robber barons dream.... LOL
Posted by: Prophit
» Cutting Corporate Tax Rates to Zero won't result in more investment if there is no consumer spending
Posted by: yellow
» I Believe I said Public Investment not AIG's sham nonsense.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Thank you for putting down the koolade
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars on Jan 22, 2009 7:29 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars on Jan 22, 2009 7:29 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You won't get a invite to a Georgetown Cocktail Party but, I'll give you the inside on the BBQ cookouts in outside the beltway in NOVA. If you are going to be "progressive" don't half ass it, you'll only screw things up even more
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Too big to fail
Posted by: praedor on Jan 22, 2009 7:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: praedor on Jan 22, 2009 7:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Too big to fail" simply means "Too big". Period. Anything that is "too big to fail" must be broken up into many "too small to matters". Those that cannot be so broken up now must be fully nationalized and the CEOs and other top execs kicked to the curb without any benefits of severance packages. THEY drove these banks into a deep, deep ditch and then begged for (and got) superwealthy welfare so they could lavish bonuses upon themselves and pay dividends to their shareholders.
PAY IT ALL BACK OR NATIONALIZE. Regardless of this, the top execs of ALL such banks and Wall Street firms need to be required to step down without ANY benefits or severance.
PAY IT ALL BACK OR NATIONALIZE. Regardless of this, the top execs of ALL such banks and Wall Street firms need to be required to step down without ANY benefits or severance.
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» RE: Too big to fail
Posted by: maglindracia
Comments are closed-
The Doctors of Economy Treat (badly) the Symptoms & Ignore the Cause
Posted by: gazooks on Jan 22, 2009 7:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: gazooks on Jan 22, 2009 7:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are all afflicted, the prognosis is fatal and our doctors corrupted with a systemic, lethal hubris.
Just as in medicine, without identifying the root of the illness, you may succeed in curtailing symptoms, may even keep the patient stable and comfortable as organs are progressively destroyed.
In the end, either accurate diagnosis is made and appropriate therapy applied or morphine doses curtail the pain of a foreseeably inevitable demise.
The hundreds of trillions of new dollar credits in both bailout and stimulus required for the indefinite functional future are as morphine to the mortally afflicted economic body. If the drip is suspend, the pain is realized and the patient suffers the agony of the disease.
But what if the patient is actually a terminal junkie and the treatment unwittingly furthers the addiction and deepens the resulting pain of withdrawal?
What if feeding an economic system the increasing doses of fiat dollars simply succeeds in destroying what it purportedly is meant to treat in the end as it inevitably must?
What if the practitioners of leveraged medicine are also the pushers of the manipulated markets, policy wonks of the brazenly self-serving bankers and their owners and their media and their politician/physicians?
There can be NO successful economic reform meaningful to the hundreds of millions of average citizens until our monetary form has as much viability for saving as it does for extending as credit, PERIOD! That is the basic requisite balance for sustainable economy which underwrites political freedom.
How this is achieved is as basic as outlawing the policies designed specifically to manipulate metals markets by the banks. Bank of America is a major surrogate to Fed policy to prevent the unfettered and independent measure of the monetary metals as the single best measure of true inflation.
INFLATION is a monetary event which is responsible for the progressive impoverishment of the working class for a century. Everything else economic is subordinate to it.
Reforms without establishing sound money as basis are as meaningless to a cure as treating a junkie with morphine.
Just as in medicine, without identifying the root of the illness, you may succeed in curtailing symptoms, may even keep the patient stable and comfortable as organs are progressively destroyed.
In the end, either accurate diagnosis is made and appropriate therapy applied or morphine doses curtail the pain of a foreseeably inevitable demise.
The hundreds of trillions of new dollar credits in both bailout and stimulus required for the indefinite functional future are as morphine to the mortally afflicted economic body. If the drip is suspend, the pain is realized and the patient suffers the agony of the disease.
But what if the patient is actually a terminal junkie and the treatment unwittingly furthers the addiction and deepens the resulting pain of withdrawal?
What if feeding an economic system the increasing doses of fiat dollars simply succeeds in destroying what it purportedly is meant to treat in the end as it inevitably must?
What if the practitioners of leveraged medicine are also the pushers of the manipulated markets, policy wonks of the brazenly self-serving bankers and their owners and their media and their politician/physicians?
There can be NO successful economic reform meaningful to the hundreds of millions of average citizens until our monetary form has as much viability for saving as it does for extending as credit, PERIOD! That is the basic requisite balance for sustainable economy which underwrites political freedom.
How this is achieved is as basic as outlawing the policies designed specifically to manipulate metals markets by the banks. Bank of America is a major surrogate to Fed policy to prevent the unfettered and independent measure of the monetary metals as the single best measure of true inflation.
INFLATION is a monetary event which is responsible for the progressive impoverishment of the working class for a century. Everything else economic is subordinate to it.
Reforms without establishing sound money as basis are as meaningless to a cure as treating a junkie with morphine.
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» Reforms without establishing sound money...
Posted by: chance garden
» There is a bill in to do away with the Federal Reserve....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: There is a bill in to do away with the Federal Reserve....
Posted by: gazooks
» The Fed and Tax relief is NOT the issue. America is very lightly taxed and still there is no Growth!
Posted by: yellow
» Enough with the Usual BS already. I wish the whole lotta ya would get a clue already!!
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Enough with the Usual BS already
Posted by: chance garden
» But none of this is true and none of it is relevant.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Which part of "The Money is Gone" don't you understand?
Posted by: PaulK on Jan 22, 2009 8:22 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: PaulK on Jan 22, 2009 8:22 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The part about the bridge to nowhere earmark, especially if it's my district's earmark.
The part about cutting back on liquor purchases.
The part about our property values not rising 10% per year, every year until infinity.
The part about not importing an infinite amount of cheap plastic junk from China, every year, forever. They're poor and we're rich, right, so they work and we have a tee time to catch.
What's a foreclosure anyway? Talk to my accountant.
The part about cutting back on liquor purchases.
The part about our property values not rising 10% per year, every year until infinity.
The part about not importing an infinite amount of cheap plastic junk from China, every year, forever. They're poor and we're rich, right, so they work and we have a tee time to catch.
What's a foreclosure anyway? Talk to my accountant.
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To Quote Springsteen...
Posted by: east bay on Jan 22, 2009 8:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: east bay on Jan 22, 2009 8:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Now main streets whitewashed windows and vacant stores
Seems like there aint nobody wants to come down here no more
Theyre closing down the textile mill across the railroad tracks
Foreman says these jobs are going boys and they aint coming back to
Your hometown, your hometown, your hometown, your hometown" - Bruce spingsteen, 1984
Seems like there aint nobody wants to come down here no more
Theyre closing down the textile mill across the railroad tracks
Foreman says these jobs are going boys and they aint coming back to
Your hometown, your hometown, your hometown, your hometown" - Bruce spingsteen, 1984
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» To Quote Springsteen... sounds like the Carolinas in the late 1990's
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
Comments are closed-
The Stimulus went directly to China
Posted by: Shankari46 on Jan 22, 2009 8:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Shankari46 on Jan 22, 2009 8:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a no brainer. All ya'll go buy something and they did, but it was at Walmart. Walmart only has Chinese goods and low paid employees who have to get on Welfare to get healthcare benefits. The stimulus went to one billionaire and China. Real smart. Obama has to do something else. He has to cut the budget deeply. How? CUT THE MILITARY down to the size of China's military. What? Yeah. In other words stop focusing all our resources on the military.
Next he will have to put up trade barriers to China. How in heaven's name will he do that when we owe so much to China? Cut the military and pay China off. Then put the barriers up.
Next he will have to put up trade barriers to China. How in heaven's name will he do that when we owe so much to China? Cut the military and pay China off. Then put the barriers up.
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» RE: The Stimulus went directly to China
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield
» Bad news for ya... China is Goldman Sachs biggest client..
Posted by: Prophit
» Send a 3 trillion bill 2 China 4 technology they stole!
Posted by: solstice
Comments are closed-
FDR Gave Out Huge Stimulus Packages
Posted by: Shankari46 on Jan 22, 2009 9:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Shankari46 on Jan 22, 2009 9:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It doesn't work now, because we don't have the same economy. We do need to have a bank holiday and nationalize some of these guys like FDR did, but the handing money out won't work, because WE DON'T have a manufacturing base. That was destroyed by Reagan. All of our goods are manufactured overseas, so when you give people money to spend it goes directly overseas not to poor working class Americans.
Now you need a trade barrier against China or in other words you need to stop Chinese goods from coming in, but that's tricky since we owe so much to China.
Now you need a trade barrier against China or in other words you need to stop Chinese goods from coming in, but that's tricky since we owe so much to China.
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» RE: FDR Gave Out Huge Stimulus Packages
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield
» Very good comment...well thought out,..thankyou!
Posted by: donl51
Comments are closed-
The end of money as God?
Posted by: sirios on Jan 22, 2009 9:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: sirios on Jan 22, 2009 9:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Financial ruin is not a bad thing as long as it uncovers and exposes life[compassion,love generosity gratitude towards the planet and natural world,etc.] and dissolves greed, addiction to power, cruelty,aggression and destruction of the environment.
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» That would be lovely.
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield
» RE: Thanx sirios,
Posted by: watching-n-waiting
» The end of the armed robbery of the american public.
Posted by: rafaeltoral
Comments are closed-
I like it
Posted by: willymack on Jan 22, 2009 9:16 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: willymack on Jan 22, 2009 9:16 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Today is one of the more lively discussions, with opinions on just about every side. In my mind, this sharply defines our economic woes, and helps to point to a solution. This may sound silly, but maybe economic collapse won't be so bad for us (in the long run) as we think. The crooks with all the money will lose the most and be revealed for what and who they are, greedy rat-bastard psychopaths, and friends to NO ONE, except their own kind. Maybe-just maybe-a more HUMANE economic order will emerge. One thing for certain is, it can't go on as before; it'll just fall apart again.
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Preparing For Economic Armageddon - Are Hens Like Cats?
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Jan 22, 2009 9:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Jan 22, 2009 9:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the shit really hits the fan, and banks stop issuing money - as happenned in Russia 10 years ago, it may become difficult to buy food. I thought that getting some hens might provide a partial solution cos they lay eggs - and you can even eat them. Presumably they don't need a great deal of looking after and potentially hen shit might make decent fertilizer for growing potatoes.
Then I realised a major problem. We have absolutely loads of foxes. You hardly ever see a fox in the countryside - they've all moved into town - and if you start shooting them (not that I have a gun) then the soppy neighbours will go all emotional - and you'll probably end up getting arrested by the Gestapo.
However there must be solutions to all these problems
This website has a few ideas
What I don't quite understand is how truly free range chickens survive. Perhaps they only do survive in areas where there aren't any foxes. Are hens like cats and can find their own way home unaided?
I used to think that doomster stories of complete and utter financial collapse were the musings of depressed paranoid schizophrenics who regular went off to hide in a cave when events like the Year 2000 came around.
I even bought a cheap book on the subject a few years ago, and after laughing my way through more than half of it I thought I may have binned it - but no I've just found it again
"Wake Up!" by Jim Mellon & Al Chalabi
Oh shit it's all coming true
Tony
Then I realised a major problem. We have absolutely loads of foxes. You hardly ever see a fox in the countryside - they've all moved into town - and if you start shooting them (not that I have a gun) then the soppy neighbours will go all emotional - and you'll probably end up getting arrested by the Gestapo.
However there must be solutions to all these problems
This website has a few ideas
What I don't quite understand is how truly free range chickens survive. Perhaps they only do survive in areas where there aren't any foxes. Are hens like cats and can find their own way home unaided?
I used to think that doomster stories of complete and utter financial collapse were the musings of depressed paranoid schizophrenics who regular went off to hide in a cave when events like the Year 2000 came around.
I even bought a cheap book on the subject a few years ago, and after laughing my way through more than half of it I thought I may have binned it - but no I've just found it again
"Wake Up!" by Jim Mellon & Al Chalabi
Oh shit it's all coming true
Tony
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Oh dear - we are so ignorant of our own disasters...
Posted by: gunboat diplomat on Jan 22, 2009 9:24 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: gunboat diplomat on Jan 22, 2009 9:24 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First, the gap between real wealth and financial wealth has grown and grown ever since 1970 or so. Not only that, so has the gap between CEO pay and shareholder dividends on one hand, and worker pay on the other. www.davidkorten.org
The decrease in worker pay has been increased via NAFTA and similar trade agreements, which was really a union-busting and environmental movement-busting tactic, aimed at moving manufacturing to countries with brutal dictatorships that had no qualms about murdering environmental or labor activists - Indonesia, China, Burma, etc.
This mirrors and ever-increasing gap in the U.S. between real wealth (manufactured goods, agricultural produce, and useful services) and financial wealth (numbers on a ledger).
For example, the pension funds are not real wealth - they consist of numbers on paper, backed up by an ever-decreasing amount of real wealth.
It's funny... China got all our manufacturing technology for free, and now they have their own R&D programs - while we rely on them. At the end of WWII, Russians packed up all the German factories and moved them back home - we just gave ours away to the Chinese! They're not so bad - but they could use some deomcratic reforms, I think. The Chinese are not idealists, they are pragmatists - but their unregulated communist system allows massive corruption to flourish, as usual in all totalitarian states, regardless of their particular brand of ideology.
China is also the biggest single foreign holder of U.S. Treasury securities - almost $700 billion worth. What's the total debt now, some $10 trillion? That's not even counting personal debt, credit cards, student loans, home loans, car loans - we have ridden the debt train to the end of the line, and now we are in the Waste Land.
Didn't you ever see Goodfellas? What does the mob do when they take over the restaurant? Run up massive bills, move orders in one door and out the other, sell the goods to someone else while keeping them on the books, and when the game is up, the burn the whole place down and collect the insurance. The danger there is that you might end up burning down a whole city block - or even the entire city.
That's what's happened to our financial system - and some people have done quite well for themselves, you can count on that - but the greed got out of hand, backfired and blew up in their faces - and now their bleeding out, with no real medical aid in sight - just bandaids that won't fix a thing.
In reality, we'd have to drop the entire fossil fuel program, invest billions in renewable energy, and completely change the structure of corporations and their relation to shareholders and employees - but that's definitely NOT on the table.
Empire falls. Good luck, everyone. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go work on my Mandarin Chinese.
The decrease in worker pay has been increased via NAFTA and similar trade agreements, which was really a union-busting and environmental movement-busting tactic, aimed at moving manufacturing to countries with brutal dictatorships that had no qualms about murdering environmental or labor activists - Indonesia, China, Burma, etc.
This mirrors and ever-increasing gap in the U.S. between real wealth (manufactured goods, agricultural produce, and useful services) and financial wealth (numbers on a ledger).
For example, the pension funds are not real wealth - they consist of numbers on paper, backed up by an ever-decreasing amount of real wealth.
It's funny... China got all our manufacturing technology for free, and now they have their own R&D programs - while we rely on them. At the end of WWII, Russians packed up all the German factories and moved them back home - we just gave ours away to the Chinese! They're not so bad - but they could use some deomcratic reforms, I think. The Chinese are not idealists, they are pragmatists - but their unregulated communist system allows massive corruption to flourish, as usual in all totalitarian states, regardless of their particular brand of ideology.
China is also the biggest single foreign holder of U.S. Treasury securities - almost $700 billion worth. What's the total debt now, some $10 trillion? That's not even counting personal debt, credit cards, student loans, home loans, car loans - we have ridden the debt train to the end of the line, and now we are in the Waste Land.
Didn't you ever see Goodfellas? What does the mob do when they take over the restaurant? Run up massive bills, move orders in one door and out the other, sell the goods to someone else while keeping them on the books, and when the game is up, the burn the whole place down and collect the insurance. The danger there is that you might end up burning down a whole city block - or even the entire city.
That's what's happened to our financial system - and some people have done quite well for themselves, you can count on that - but the greed got out of hand, backfired and blew up in their faces - and now their bleeding out, with no real medical aid in sight - just bandaids that won't fix a thing.
In reality, we'd have to drop the entire fossil fuel program, invest billions in renewable energy, and completely change the structure of corporations and their relation to shareholders and employees - but that's definitely NOT on the table.
Empire falls. Good luck, everyone. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go work on my Mandarin Chinese.
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» their unregulated communist system allows massive corruption
Posted by: chance garden
» how stupid are we we gave our technology away!
Posted by: solstice
Comments are closed-
Deficit Spending is the Only Way to Stimulate Economic Recovery. FDR and Reagan both agree on this!!
Posted by: yellow on Jan 22, 2009 9:28 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: yellow on Jan 22, 2009 9:28 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One reason that the US Federal Government has consistently run deficits since 1970 for all but four years (1998-2001) adding to a total national debt that currently stands at over $10 trillion is the chronic stagnation of the US economy. Financialization in general, not the specific monetary policies of the Fed, has led the US economy to the current crisis.
As Jane d'Arista, an economist with the Financial Markets Center, a post-Keynesian think tank analyzing global financial policy, has stated, "...the advent of monetary ease after 2001 introduced a new dynamic: the generation of liquidity through the spill over effects of leveraged cross border investment flows." What Ms. d'Arista is saying is not just that successive policy interest rate cuts at the Fed by Greenspan, in an endeavor to save the housing and stock market bubbles and hence leveraged consumer spending to support the economy, sustained ultimately damaging bubbles, but that even in 2004 and 2005, when corporate and consumer borrowing reached massive levels, the Fed's attempts to raise the policy short term interest rates, had no effect on borrowing and rising debt levels.
In Fact, as d'Arista points out, such rate increases actually increased financial investment inflows into US bond and equities markets through a developing "carry trade" industry in which institutional investors borrowed in short term, low interest capital markets like those in Japan and invested in higher yield, long term Dollar denominated financial assets like US stocks and bonds.
Not only did this create excess liquidity in the US allowing more borrowing at cheaper long term rates (mortgage rates dropped to below 5% for a time allowing home equity cashouts to finance much consumer borrowing) but allowed sufficient borrowing for US speculators to invest in higher risk, higher yield emerging market sovereign debt.
Third world countries "sterilized" their new dollar reserves by purchasing US bonds in order to avoid domestic currency appreciation and a decline in exports. As these dollars flowed back to US financial markets they accumulated in US financial markets and commercial bank reserves causing a downward pressure on long term US interest rates making Fed short term interest rate hikes ineffective. They eventually flowed back out again to global financial markets and ultimately back to the US again in a pro-cyclical fashion making counter-cyclical Fed monetary policies irrelevant.
The "round robin" nature of these cross border capital flows, as d'Arista calls it, created a financialization pattern that was hard to break. It also created and expanded financial and housing bubbles and encouraged global financial speculation ultimately leading to the current economic crisis.
What is now needed is to shrink the financial economy. It is too large. It is important to use capital controls to stop short term speculative flows as well as to steeply tax idle wealth in order to use the money for public investment and full employment. Growing inequality and the concentration of wealth and income since the early 1980s allowed the contemporary financialization trend which ultimately led to the current crisis. It was not a consequence of specific Fed monetary policies. Progressive taxation and public investment is the answer. Monetary restraint and deficit reduction at this time will only cause deflation and depression.
As Jane d'Arista, an economist with the Financial Markets Center, a post-Keynesian think tank analyzing global financial policy, has stated, "...the advent of monetary ease after 2001 introduced a new dynamic: the generation of liquidity through the spill over effects of leveraged cross border investment flows." What Ms. d'Arista is saying is not just that successive policy interest rate cuts at the Fed by Greenspan, in an endeavor to save the housing and stock market bubbles and hence leveraged consumer spending to support the economy, sustained ultimately damaging bubbles, but that even in 2004 and 2005, when corporate and consumer borrowing reached massive levels, the Fed's attempts to raise the policy short term interest rates, had no effect on borrowing and rising debt levels.
In Fact, as d'Arista points out, such rate increases actually increased financial investment inflows into US bond and equities markets through a developing "carry trade" industry in which institutional investors borrowed in short term, low interest capital markets like those in Japan and invested in higher yield, long term Dollar denominated financial assets like US stocks and bonds.
Not only did this create excess liquidity in the US allowing more borrowing at cheaper long term rates (mortgage rates dropped to below 5% for a time allowing home equity cashouts to finance much consumer borrowing) but allowed sufficient borrowing for US speculators to invest in higher risk, higher yield emerging market sovereign debt.
Third world countries "sterilized" their new dollar reserves by purchasing US bonds in order to avoid domestic currency appreciation and a decline in exports. As these dollars flowed back to US financial markets they accumulated in US financial markets and commercial bank reserves causing a downward pressure on long term US interest rates making Fed short term interest rate hikes ineffective. They eventually flowed back out again to global financial markets and ultimately back to the US again in a pro-cyclical fashion making counter-cyclical Fed monetary policies irrelevant.
The "round robin" nature of these cross border capital flows, as d'Arista calls it, created a financialization pattern that was hard to break. It also created and expanded financial and housing bubbles and encouraged global financial speculation ultimately leading to the current economic crisis.
What is now needed is to shrink the financial economy. It is too large. It is important to use capital controls to stop short term speculative flows as well as to steeply tax idle wealth in order to use the money for public investment and full employment. Growing inequality and the concentration of wealth and income since the early 1980s allowed the contemporary financialization trend which ultimately led to the current crisis. It was not a consequence of specific Fed monetary policies. Progressive taxation and public investment is the answer. Monetary restraint and deficit reduction at this time will only cause deflation and depression.
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» Yup - and capital flow liberalization rules written into NAFTA, CAFTA, etc. made it all possible
Posted by: gunboat diplomat
» So how is this "critique" in conflict with what I said?
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Karl Denniger's Cramdown - Might seem Ruthless - But It May Provide a Solution That will Work
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Jan 22, 2009 9:42 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Jan 22, 2009 9:42 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
link
There is exactly one way to resolve this problem - the banks must be "crammed down" through forcible reorganization, and we must stop bailing them out and handing them money.
We cannot recapitalize them through taxpayer donations, for through that path we only delay the inevitable. We do not have the ability to "manufacture" or "borrow" the three to five trillion dollars it would take to cover those losses - a full fifty percent increase in our federal debt, on which we would pay hundreds of billions of dollars a year - forever - being a permanent drag on GDP. Such a path will only lead to more insolvency as the crimp on GDP will inevitably lead to more job losses, more credit losses and more malaise, ultimately resulting in the very collapse that the proponents of this path claim to be trying to avoid.
The math demands that we take bold action. We must force a cramdown of debt to equity, which will wipe out all of the existing shareholders, including those holding preferreds while converting the bondholders into new equity holders, pushing down the capital structure however far is necessary in order to return the firm to solvency.
Many people would argue this is "illegal." It is not. These firms are already bankrupt if anyone bothers to perform a simple dispassionate balance sheet analysis. Their common and preferred stock is worthless. They continue to trade only on the premise that our government would come in and bail them out with an endless supply of taxpayer dollars, mortgaging our nation and its future in order to keep these bankers and their investors from suffering their just desserts as a consequence of their voluntary, irrational and patently unsound lending decisions.
None of these investors put their money in with their eyes wide shut - or if they did, they knew better. Nobody was forced to buy a bank stock or bond. Everyone did so expecting a return, and all took a risk. That risk has now become realized - it has gone from hypothetical to actual.
President Obama needs direct Treasury and The Fed to immediately go institution-by-institution, write down the assets to "death's door" levels, determine how far down the capital structure needs to be crammed to restore that institution to a strong capital position with double the Tier Capital ratio required by law, and then forcibly reorganize the debt into equity.
The bank involved reopens the next morning on the stock exchange with its new stockholders. The old stockholders are extinguished - they get nothing. The liabilities are greatly reduced, the capital structure reorganized, the bank has a strong capital position and is now financially sound.
Zero taxpayer dollars are involved. The losses are borne by those who intentionally invested in an asset that might (and now did) lose value, including a possible loss of all value.
Before we cry a river for these people we must realize that while a $2 trillion loss would be bad for those who bear it, the market has already lost some $10 trillion in value!
For an additional 20% in losses, all taken by those who decided to invest in these institutions, we can resolve the failed banks.
And make no mistake President Obama and readers of The Ticker - these banks have already failed. They trade on a public exchange today, and have doors open, only because of a fraud perpetrated upon the public by the previous Administration - a fraud we have all allowed to take place and now threaten to perpetuate.
Don't make that mistake - it didn't work under President Bush and Secretary Paulson because mathematically it can't work. It won't work in an Obama administration either because the math is never, ever wrong.
There is exactly one way to resolve this problem - the banks must be "crammed down" through forcible reorganization, and we must stop bailing them out and handing them money.
We cannot recapitalize them through taxpayer donations, for through that path we only delay the inevitable. We do not have the ability to "manufacture" or "borrow" the three to five trillion dollars it would take to cover those losses - a full fifty percent increase in our federal debt, on which we would pay hundreds of billions of dollars a year - forever - being a permanent drag on GDP. Such a path will only lead to more insolvency as the crimp on GDP will inevitably lead to more job losses, more credit losses and more malaise, ultimately resulting in the very collapse that the proponents of this path claim to be trying to avoid.
The math demands that we take bold action. We must force a cramdown of debt to equity, which will wipe out all of the existing shareholders, including those holding preferreds while converting the bondholders into new equity holders, pushing down the capital structure however far is necessary in order to return the firm to solvency.
Many people would argue this is "illegal." It is not. These firms are already bankrupt if anyone bothers to perform a simple dispassionate balance sheet analysis. Their common and preferred stock is worthless. They continue to trade only on the premise that our government would come in and bail them out with an endless supply of taxpayer dollars, mortgaging our nation and its future in order to keep these bankers and their investors from suffering their just desserts as a consequence of their voluntary, irrational and patently unsound lending decisions.
None of these investors put their money in with their eyes wide shut - or if they did, they knew better. Nobody was forced to buy a bank stock or bond. Everyone did so expecting a return, and all took a risk. That risk has now become realized - it has gone from hypothetical to actual.
President Obama needs direct Treasury and The Fed to immediately go institution-by-institution, write down the assets to "death's door" levels, determine how far down the capital structure needs to be crammed to restore that institution to a strong capital position with double the Tier Capital ratio required by law, and then forcibly reorganize the debt into equity.
The bank involved reopens the next morning on the stock exchange with its new stockholders. The old stockholders are extinguished - they get nothing. The liabilities are greatly reduced, the capital structure reorganized, the bank has a strong capital position and is now financially sound.
Zero taxpayer dollars are involved. The losses are borne by those who intentionally invested in an asset that might (and now did) lose value, including a possible loss of all value.
Before we cry a river for these people we must realize that while a $2 trillion loss would be bad for those who bear it, the market has already lost some $10 trillion in value!
For an additional 20% in losses, all taken by those who decided to invest in these institutions, we can resolve the failed banks.
And make no mistake President Obama and readers of The Ticker - these banks have already failed. They trade on a public exchange today, and have doors open, only because of a fraud perpetrated upon the public by the previous Administration - a fraud we have all allowed to take place and now threaten to perpetuate.
Don't make that mistake - it didn't work under President Bush and Secretary Paulson because mathematically it can't work. It won't work in an Obama administration either because the math is never, ever wrong.
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» RE: Karl Denniger's Cramdown - Might seem Ruthless - But It May Provide a Solution That will Work
Posted by: a2plusb2equalc2
Comments are closed-
Reverting to the historical norm
Posted by: billwald on Jan 22, 2009 10:23 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: billwald on Jan 22, 2009 10:23 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Stupid Americans think that a population with a 60% middle class with an ever increasing standard of living is normal. Sorry, it is a freak post WW2 phenomenon. We are reverting to the world historical norm with 5% stinking rich, 15% or so middle class (doctors, lawyers, small business owners), and the rest working poor. Prior to WW1 half of all Americans lived in poverty. Get used to it.
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» Reverting to colonialism and rule by robber barons, you mean.
Posted by: gunboat diplomat
Comments are closed-
Declare an "Emergency" and invoke NSPD-51...
Posted by: TJColatrella on Jan 22, 2009 1:05 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: TJColatrella on Jan 22, 2009 1:05 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then Mr. President you can unilaterally Nationalize all these Major Banks and start issuing low interest loans to stimulate the economy...this for the sake of "continuity" within our banking institutions..and economy..
You can then also under NSPD-51 and HSPD-20 Nationalize due to the "Emergency" all major energy and also our Health Care System going to a single payer system...
This will create not just a solution to our economic emergency but also an Economic Boom like we haven't seen in decades and also increase the value of the American dollar...!
It's the way to go declare an Emergency and invoke NSPD-51 this is an Emergency isn't it well that's why Bush signed NSPD-51 and HSPD-20 so we can Nationalize and direct and control our economy and all government..!
Go for it Mr. President or at least mention you are considering this seriously and watch them fold like broken lawn chairs..!
You can then also under NSPD-51 and HSPD-20 Nationalize due to the "Emergency" all major energy and also our Health Care System going to a single payer system...
This will create not just a solution to our economic emergency but also an Economic Boom like we haven't seen in decades and also increase the value of the American dollar...!
It's the way to go declare an Emergency and invoke NSPD-51 this is an Emergency isn't it well that's why Bush signed NSPD-51 and HSPD-20 so we can Nationalize and direct and control our economy and all government..!
Go for it Mr. President or at least mention you are considering this seriously and watch them fold like broken lawn chairs..!
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» RE: Declare an "Emergency" and invoke NSPD-51...
Posted by: satwa.gunam
Comments are closed-
Under pinnings of the plan
Posted by: Dixie Dawg on Jan 22, 2009 1:11 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Dixie Dawg on Jan 22, 2009 1:11 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem with the plan will be the people President Obama wants in place to implement the plan. Tim Geithner is the leading indicator of where President Obama's ideals are headed. With a Geithner, "the plan" is in jeopardy from the get go.
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good discussions
Posted by: cbishopp on Jan 22, 2009 1:31 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: cbishopp on Jan 22, 2009 1:31 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's great to see so many people speaking their mind and facing the facts. It is about time we all consider how our money is created and who profits from our efforts and who really pays the taxes.
Obama has a huge task ahead of him and to be honest few of us believe he can do much about the economy at this point.
We have been robbed. The United States has been systematically bled dry through war, theft, fear, and lies for many years and now we turn to one man to fix it all at the 11th hour. It's a daunting responsibility.
But the fact remains that Obama must deal with issues of terrorism and the ongoing military campaigns whose conditions have worsened due to poor planning and and a disturbing lack of diplomacy. He must deal with a credit squeeze that will make the Depression of the 30's look not so great. He must deal with a sour world opinion of the US and the quickly failing hegemony of the dollar.
He will be held accountable while Bush slinks off to Dallas and fades into obscurity. Can we even remember all the things we opposed over the last eight years? Will Obama address the constitutionality of the Patriot Act, the corporate malfeasance in Iraq as well as the United States, the condition and effectiveness of FEMA, the continuing problems in New Orleans, or the trillions of dollars lost or stolen over the last two terms??
He is only the President though, so it is my belief that he will comply with the Federal Reserve, he will support Israel, he will continue fighting in Afghanistan and on a smaller level in Iraq, he will maintain a strong stance against Iran, and he will not abandon the US Embassy in Iraq.
What he HAS done as we have seen throughout the campaign is that he and his team have created a brand. The Obama Brand is an asset to anyone who can attach to it, and he has made it very easy for anyone to use his message at all levels of the economy. Any item of clothing his kids or Michelle dons is specifically chosen and often results in websites (like J. Crew) crashing, unable to sustain the incoming orders. Companies that make Obama t-shirts, trinkets, posters and buttons are having a landmark year, larger companies like Starbucks and Pepsi have ads that are almost indistinguishable from campaign slogans.
Obama is the only thing moving money right now and he is attempting to shift the great Republican media machine to promote his administrations message of HOPE.
Make no mistake, Obama was chosen to lead us through a depression, not to fix it.
Obama has a huge task ahead of him and to be honest few of us believe he can do much about the economy at this point.
We have been robbed. The United States has been systematically bled dry through war, theft, fear, and lies for many years and now we turn to one man to fix it all at the 11th hour. It's a daunting responsibility.
But the fact remains that Obama must deal with issues of terrorism and the ongoing military campaigns whose conditions have worsened due to poor planning and and a disturbing lack of diplomacy. He must deal with a credit squeeze that will make the Depression of the 30's look not so great. He must deal with a sour world opinion of the US and the quickly failing hegemony of the dollar.
He will be held accountable while Bush slinks off to Dallas and fades into obscurity. Can we even remember all the things we opposed over the last eight years? Will Obama address the constitutionality of the Patriot Act, the corporate malfeasance in Iraq as well as the United States, the condition and effectiveness of FEMA, the continuing problems in New Orleans, or the trillions of dollars lost or stolen over the last two terms??
He is only the President though, so it is my belief that he will comply with the Federal Reserve, he will support Israel, he will continue fighting in Afghanistan and on a smaller level in Iraq, he will maintain a strong stance against Iran, and he will not abandon the US Embassy in Iraq.
What he HAS done as we have seen throughout the campaign is that he and his team have created a brand. The Obama Brand is an asset to anyone who can attach to it, and he has made it very easy for anyone to use his message at all levels of the economy. Any item of clothing his kids or Michelle dons is specifically chosen and often results in websites (like J. Crew) crashing, unable to sustain the incoming orders. Companies that make Obama t-shirts, trinkets, posters and buttons are having a landmark year, larger companies like Starbucks and Pepsi have ads that are almost indistinguishable from campaign slogans.
Obama is the only thing moving money right now and he is attempting to shift the great Republican media machine to promote his administrations message of HOPE.
Make no mistake, Obama was chosen to lead us through a depression, not to fix it.
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» bRANd oBAMa
Posted by: chance garden
» RE: bRANd nADEr?
Posted by: Beck
» RE: bRANd nADEr?
Posted by: chance garden
Comments are closed-
YAAYA
Posted by: Cialo on Jan 22, 2009 1:50 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Cialo on Jan 22, 2009 1:50 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Guess what, WE'RE FUCKED!
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You Bail Them Out, We Opt Out.
Posted by: MC Shalom on Jan 22, 2009 2:23 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: MC Shalom on Jan 22, 2009 2:23 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You Bail Them Out, We Opt Out.
Dear [May Be Too Much to my Taste, OK!] Expensive Chairman Ben S. Bernanke,
All of Our Economic Problems Find They Root in the Existence of Credit.
Out of the $5,000,000,000,000 bail out money for the banks, that is $1,000 for every inhabitant of this planet, what is it exactly that WE, The People, got?
If my bank doesn't pay back its credits, how come I must pay it back mines?
If my bank gets 0% Loans, how come I don't?
At the same time, everyday, some of us are losing our home or even our jobs.
Credit discriminates against people of lower economic classes, as such it is unconstitutional, isn't it? It is an supra national stealth weapon of class struggle.
Credit is a predatory practice. When the predator finishes up the preys he starves to death. What did you expect?
Where are you exactly in that food chain?
Credit Stands Up Against Both of All the Principles of Equal Opportunity and Free Market.
Credit is a Stealth Weapon of Mass Destruction.
Credit is Mathematically Inept, Morally Unacceptable.
They Bail Them Out, We Opt Out
Opting Out Is Both Free and Completely Anonymous.
The Solution: The Credit Free, Free Market Economy.
Is Both Dynamic on the Short Run & Stable on the Long Run, The Only Available Short Run Solution.
I Am, Hence, Leading an Exit Out of Credit:
Let me outline for you my proposed strategy:
✔ Preserve Your Belongings.
✔ The Property Title: Opt Out of Credit.
✔ The Credit Free Money: The Dinar-Shekel AKA The DaSh, Symbol: - .
✔ Asset Transfer: The Right Grant Operation.
✔ A Specific Application of Employment, Interest and Money.
[A Tract Intended For my Fellows Economists].
If Risk Free Interest Rates Are at 0.00% Doesn't That Mean That Credit is Worthless?
Since credit based currencies are managed by setting interest rates, on which all control has been lost, are they managed anymore?
We Need, Hence, Cancel All Interest Bearing Debt and Abolish Interest Bearing Credit.
In This Age of Turbulence The People Wants an Exit Out of Credit: An Adventure in a New World Economic Order.
The other option would be to wait till most of the productive assets of the economy get physically destroyed either by war or by rust.
It will be either awfully deadly or dramatically long.
A price none of us can afford to pay.
“The current crisis can be overcome only by developing a sense of common purpose. The alternative to a new international order is chaos.”
- Henry A. Kissinger
You Bail Them Out, Let's Opt Out!
Check Out How Many of Us Are Already on Their Way to Opt Out of Credit.
Let me provide you with a link to my press release for my open letter to you:
Chairman Ben S. Bernanke, Quantitative [Ooops! I Meant Credit] Easing Can't Work!
I am, Mr Chairman, Yours Sincerely [Do I have really the choice?],
Shalom P. Hamou AKA 'MC-Shalom'
Chief Economist - Master Conductor
1 7 7 6 - Annuit Cœptis
Tel: +972 54 441-7640
Dear [May Be Too Much to my Taste, OK!] Expensive Chairman Ben S. Bernanke,
All of Our Economic Problems Find They Root in the Existence of Credit.
Out of the $5,000,000,000,000 bail out money for the banks, that is $1,000 for every inhabitant of this planet, what is it exactly that WE, The People, got?
If my bank doesn't pay back its credits, how come I must pay it back mines?
If my bank gets 0% Loans, how come I don't?
At the same time, everyday, some of us are losing our home or even our jobs.
Credit discriminates against people of lower economic classes, as such it is unconstitutional, isn't it? It is an supra national stealth weapon of class struggle.
Credit is a predatory practice. When the predator finishes up the preys he starves to death. What did you expect?
Where are you exactly in that food chain?
Credit Stands Up Against Both of All the Principles of Equal Opportunity and Free Market.
Credit is a Stealth Weapon of Mass Destruction.
Credit is Mathematically Inept, Morally Unacceptable.
They Bail Them Out, We Opt Out
Opting Out Is Both Free and Completely Anonymous.
The Solution: The Credit Free, Free Market Economy.
Is Both Dynamic on the Short Run & Stable on the Long Run, The Only Available Short Run Solution.
I Am, Hence, Leading an Exit Out of Credit:
Let me outline for you my proposed strategy:
✔ Preserve Your Belongings.
✔ The Property Title: Opt Out of Credit.
✔ The Credit Free Money: The Dinar-Shekel AKA The DaSh, Symbol: - .
✔ Asset Transfer: The Right Grant Operation.
✔ A Specific Application of Employment, Interest and Money.
[A Tract Intended For my Fellows Economists].
If Risk Free Interest Rates Are at 0.00% Doesn't That Mean That Credit is Worthless?
Since credit based currencies are managed by setting interest rates, on which all control has been lost, are they managed anymore?
We Need, Hence, Cancel All Interest Bearing Debt and Abolish Interest Bearing Credit.
In This Age of Turbulence The People Wants an Exit Out of Credit: An Adventure in a New World Economic Order.
The other option would be to wait till most of the productive assets of the economy get physically destroyed either by war or by rust.
It will be either awfully deadly or dramatically long.
A price none of us can afford to pay.
“The current crisis can be overcome only by developing a sense of common purpose. The alternative to a new international order is chaos.”
- Henry A. Kissinger
You Bail Them Out, Let's Opt Out!
Check Out How Many of Us Are Already on Their Way to Opt Out of Credit.
Let me provide you with a link to my press release for my open letter to you:
Chairman Ben S. Bernanke, Quantitative [Ooops! I Meant Credit] Easing Can't Work!
I am, Mr Chairman, Yours Sincerely [Do I have really the choice?],
Shalom P. Hamou AKA 'MC-Shalom'
Chief Economist - Master Conductor
1 7 7 6 - Annuit Cœptis
Tel: +972 54 441-7640
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Comments are closed-
A Different Kind of Bailout
Posted by: bandz on Jan 22, 2009 2:39 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: bandz on Jan 22, 2009 2:39 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This proposal may sound fanciful, but I present it as a serious matter. Instead of bailing out the rich, the banks and big corporations -- that's like trying to bail out the Titanic -- we should be bailing out the ordinary folks who are in danger of drowning. Here's my idea:
The federal government -- instead of giving billions of $ to the rich, the corporations and the big financial institutions -- give $1 million, tax free, to every registered voter with an income UNDER $100 thousand per year. Do the math to see how much that would amount to. Much less than the current "bail out the wealthy" plans.
What would happen? Most of that money would be spent -- on paying off mortgages, medical bills, environmentally-friendly cars, vacations, consumer goods, etc., etc.-- and the great majority would be spent here in the U.S!! Wouldn't that give a needed boost to our economy???
Oh, yes. that would need to be combined with instituting a universal, comprehensive, national, single-payer, not-for-profit healthcare system [also a money-saving move], and a massive employment program to salvage the country's infrastructure. How about new CCC and/or WPA programs? A much expanded homeland Peace Corps? Have the government employ the unemployed instead of handing out billions of $$ to the rich.
I think it would work. Worth a try??
The federal government -- instead of giving billions of $ to the rich, the corporations and the big financial institutions -- give $1 million, tax free, to every registered voter with an income UNDER $100 thousand per year. Do the math to see how much that would amount to. Much less than the current "bail out the wealthy" plans.
What would happen? Most of that money would be spent -- on paying off mortgages, medical bills, environmentally-friendly cars, vacations, consumer goods, etc., etc.-- and the great majority would be spent here in the U.S!! Wouldn't that give a needed boost to our economy???
Oh, yes. that would need to be combined with instituting a universal, comprehensive, national, single-payer, not-for-profit healthcare system [also a money-saving move], and a massive employment program to salvage the country's infrastructure. How about new CCC and/or WPA programs? A much expanded homeland Peace Corps? Have the government employ the unemployed instead of handing out billions of $$ to the rich.
I think it would work. Worth a try??
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» RE: A Different Kind of Bailout
Posted by: kattfish
» RE: A Different Kind of Bailout
Posted by: maglindracia
Comments are closed-
RED ALERT !! RED ALERT !! KISSY FACE OBAMA JUST GAVE BIG OIL A MAJOR MAJOR "VICTORY" !!!
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield on Jan 22, 2009 3:07 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield on Jan 22, 2009 3:07 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Offshore drilling plan to go ahead: Interior Dept
Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:29pm EST
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A proposal issued in the final days of the Bush administration to expand offshore drilling in previously banned areas will move forward under the administration of U.S. President Barack Obama, an Interior Department spokesman told Reuters on Wednesday.
Shortly after being sworn in on Tuesday, Obama ordered all federal agencies and departments to halt pending regulations until they can be reviewed by incoming staff.
Hugh Vickery, a department spokesman, said the department has been notified by the White House that it will be able to proceed with a proposed draft of a five-year plan to lease areas in the Atlantic and Pacific waters for oil and natural gas drilling.
The preliminary plan would authorize 31 energy exploration lease sales between 2010 and 2015 for tracts along the east coast and off the coasts of Alaska and California.
When the plan was unveiled last week, the department said it would provide the Obama administration with the option to begin leasing recently opened areas in 2010, two years before the current leasing plan is set to end.
The department issued a notice Wednesday requesting public comments on the plan. The comment period will be open for 60 days. After that, the Obama administration would have to decide whether to proceed with an official proposal, make changes or scrap it.
Both presidential and congressional bans on drilling in most U.S. waters ended last year.
The Interior Department estimates that the Outer Continental Shelf holds 86 billion barrels of oil and 420 trillion cubic feet of natural gas that have yet to be discovered. It is possible U.S. offshore areas, which have not been explored in 25 years, could contain more oil and gas.
Separately, Vickery said the department's plan to develop oil shale fields in the western United States would also continue.
(Reporting by Ayesha Rascoe and Tom Doggett; Editing by Christian Wiessner)
Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:29pm EST
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A proposal issued in the final days of the Bush administration to expand offshore drilling in previously banned areas will move forward under the administration of U.S. President Barack Obama, an Interior Department spokesman told Reuters on Wednesday.
Shortly after being sworn in on Tuesday, Obama ordered all federal agencies and departments to halt pending regulations until they can be reviewed by incoming staff.
Hugh Vickery, a department spokesman, said the department has been notified by the White House that it will be able to proceed with a proposed draft of a five-year plan to lease areas in the Atlantic and Pacific waters for oil and natural gas drilling.
The preliminary plan would authorize 31 energy exploration lease sales between 2010 and 2015 for tracts along the east coast and off the coasts of Alaska and California.
When the plan was unveiled last week, the department said it would provide the Obama administration with the option to begin leasing recently opened areas in 2010, two years before the current leasing plan is set to end.
The department issued a notice Wednesday requesting public comments on the plan. The comment period will be open for 60 days. After that, the Obama administration would have to decide whether to proceed with an official proposal, make changes or scrap it.
Both presidential and congressional bans on drilling in most U.S. waters ended last year.
The Interior Department estimates that the Outer Continental Shelf holds 86 billion barrels of oil and 420 trillion cubic feet of natural gas that have yet to be discovered. It is possible U.S. offshore areas, which have not been explored in 25 years, could contain more oil and gas.
Separately, Vickery said the department's plan to develop oil shale fields in the western United States would also continue.
(Reporting by Ayesha Rascoe and Tom Doggett; Editing by Christian Wiessner)
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» Yeah, offshore drilling, that's a "progressive" policy.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Yeah, offshore drilling, that's a "progressive" policy.
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield
» RE: Yeah, offshore drilling, that's a "progressive" policy.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» Yikes! I guess they'll be riding oil globs at Mavericks soon...
Posted by: chance garden
» RE: D ALERT !! RED ALERT !! KISSY FACE OBAMA JUST GAVE BIG OIL A MAJOR MAJOR "VICTORY" !!!
Posted by: Shey
» As predicted, the Obamabots will rationalize Obama's offshore drilling
Posted by: GuitarBill
» I agree GuitarBill, but you did not refute what Shey said, so why jump all over him? n/m
Posted by: PaulC
» RE: I agree GuitarBill, but you did not refute what Shey said, so why jump all over him? n/m
Posted by: Shey
» On the contrary, you're rationalizing.
Posted by: GuitarBill
Comments are closed-
And Now For Something Completely Different
Posted by: Liberty G on Jan 22, 2009 4:24 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Liberty G on Jan 22, 2009 4:24 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's my plan to save the economy/create jobs:
1. Vastly increase the number of low and mid-level (very important) government and municipal jobs, using that bailout cash.
You heard right - more government jobs - of the type that actually benefit people, health, education and the environment. Teachers, environment and health agencies, and, yes, construction/infrastructure improvements. Maybe build some railways and run them. FDR did it - hired people directly, instead of filtering "job-creation" through private corps. dedicated to skimming off much of the money for executives and stockholders - and to making money, not doing good works.
2. To help finance this, put back the taxes for the rich to old-time levels - or close to them - at least twice the paltry ones they pay today. Fact is, the country was prosperous when top income brackets paid plenty in taxes - because the money went to the good of the country and its people, not to luxuries for a favored few. And by the way, with all the announcements of layoffs, cuts in salary, benefits and hours - have we heard a single one about anybody in an upper income bracket making a sacrifice of any sort? It's just the peons taking the hit. (Except for President Obama's announcement of a pay freeze in the White House - a nice, symbolic gesture, but a drop in the bucket).
1. Vastly increase the number of low and mid-level (very important) government and municipal jobs, using that bailout cash.
You heard right - more government jobs - of the type that actually benefit people, health, education and the environment. Teachers, environment and health agencies, and, yes, construction/infrastructure improvements. Maybe build some railways and run them. FDR did it - hired people directly, instead of filtering "job-creation" through private corps. dedicated to skimming off much of the money for executives and stockholders - and to making money, not doing good works.
2. To help finance this, put back the taxes for the rich to old-time levels - or close to them - at least twice the paltry ones they pay today. Fact is, the country was prosperous when top income brackets paid plenty in taxes - because the money went to the good of the country and its people, not to luxuries for a favored few. And by the way, with all the announcements of layoffs, cuts in salary, benefits and hours - have we heard a single one about anybody in an upper income bracket making a sacrifice of any sort? It's just the peons taking the hit. (Except for President Obama's announcement of a pay freeze in the White House - a nice, symbolic gesture, but a drop in the bucket).
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» RE: I like it Liberty G!
Posted by: watching-n-waiting
» RE: I like it Liberty G!
Posted by: a2plusb2equalc2
» RE: And Now For Something Completely Different
Posted by: maglindracia
Comments are closed-
CORPORATE MAFIA gut & burn operation
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Jan 22, 2009 5:04 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Jan 22, 2009 5:04 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1st of all Obama is barely a play-actor hired by the ruling class to bemuse and confuse the sandbox gullible (sadly, most Americans). To look at a list of Obama cabinet, “advisors” and campaign supporters is to see a lineup of felons that created the financial crash underway.
William Greider a Washington/Status Quo insider “expert” speaks and Alternet (corporate MSM lite) readers listen…
“the government must nationalize and supervise the banks to ensure that they carry out the lending and investing needed for recovery.”
Of course no word on whether to nationalize the Ponzi farce that sponsored and thus created the derivatives mess to begin with: the private fascist bank Federal Reserve Corp (not federal, no reserves) that prints debt money out of thin air for the ruling class. And so, brainwashed Americans pay the interest on the debt.
“Without such a move, the taxpayers will essentially be financing the slow death of failed institutions while getting nothing in return.”
“nothing in return? ” Really?
Trillions are being thrown at the criminals that started this mess. To say they are getting “nothing in return” is a quite absurd.
Nationalizing criminally run banks (2nd tier instruments of the ruling class where the “FED” is 1st tier) will NOT save the system. It will only slow the collapse. And Greider forgot to mention that to “save the system” is not the goal of any crash as severe as this one. The target was always to hijack the nation into a FASCIST spiral where money and power go into the concentrated hands of Organized Corporate Crime (i.e. Fascism).
This is a classic Mafia Corp style gut and burn extortion operation where “insurance” (naïve U.S. citizens) pays the cost of destruction. Without a valid industrial base and no method of generating real wealth no economy can survive under corporate crime fiat for long.
In the end, the nation has to become even more obviously what it actually is: an extortion racket FASCIST CORPORATE MONOPOLY STATE run by (one more time) international Organized Corporate Crime..
William Greider a Washington/Status Quo insider “expert” speaks and Alternet (corporate MSM lite) readers listen…
“the government must nationalize and supervise the banks to ensure that they carry out the lending and investing needed for recovery.”
Of course no word on whether to nationalize the Ponzi farce that sponsored and thus created the derivatives mess to begin with: the private fascist bank Federal Reserve Corp (not federal, no reserves) that prints debt money out of thin air for the ruling class. And so, brainwashed Americans pay the interest on the debt.
“Without such a move, the taxpayers will essentially be financing the slow death of failed institutions while getting nothing in return.”
“nothing in return? ” Really?
Trillions are being thrown at the criminals that started this mess. To say they are getting “nothing in return” is a quite absurd.
Nationalizing criminally run banks (2nd tier instruments of the ruling class where the “FED” is 1st tier) will NOT save the system. It will only slow the collapse. And Greider forgot to mention that to “save the system” is not the goal of any crash as severe as this one. The target was always to hijack the nation into a FASCIST spiral where money and power go into the concentrated hands of Organized Corporate Crime (i.e. Fascism).
This is a classic Mafia Corp style gut and burn extortion operation where “insurance” (naïve U.S. citizens) pays the cost of destruction. Without a valid industrial base and no method of generating real wealth no economy can survive under corporate crime fiat for long.
In the end, the nation has to become even more obviously what it actually is: an extortion racket FASCIST CORPORATE MONOPOLY STATE run by (one more time) international Organized Corporate Crime..
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» Nationalize? Did he say the "N" word?
Posted by: chance garden
Comments are closed-
gimme gloom, doom, and devastation under Obama ....
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Jan 22, 2009 5:23 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Jan 22, 2009 5:23 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
gimme gloom, doom, and devastation under Obama over BushCheney anyday.
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» RE: And just brace yourself as one imagines Palin/McCain!
Posted by: watching-n-waiting
Comments are closed-
A.A.R.'s Ron Reagan got it right...
Posted by: watching-n-waiting on Jan 22, 2009 5:27 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: watching-n-waiting on Jan 22, 2009 5:27 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...we're wondering what the problem is... as Merrill Lynch was "going down the crapper", Thain, the CEO (while eyeing off a $10M bonus) installed a 1.22 MILLION dollar bathroom in his office!
How utterly ironic that it apparently included a 35,000 Commode on wheels!
Other highlights:
87,000: rug
28,000: curtains
11,000 towels (but not monogramed he noted as he didn't wish to be ostentatious)
25,000 mahogany table (was it manufactured from the last timber from the last tree?)
How utterly ironic that it apparently included a 35,000 Commode on wheels!
Other highlights:
87,000: rug
28,000: curtains
11,000 towels (but not monogramed he noted as he didn't wish to be ostentatious)
25,000 mahogany table (was it manufactured from the last timber from the last tree?)
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Comments are closed-
Check Out the first post to the White House Blog
Posted by: Dixie Dawg on Jan 22, 2009 5:29 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Dixie Dawg on Jan 22, 2009 5:29 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First post by Macon Phillips posted here. He does a brief overview.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/
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I am moved to testify
Posted by: PaulK on Jan 22, 2009 9:28 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: PaulK on Jan 22, 2009 9:28 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Treasury Secretary nominee Timothy Geithner told the Senate that he used Turbotax, and that he saved $21,000 by using Turbotax. This may say something about Geithner, it may say something about IRS auditors, and it may also say something about Turbotax.
I am moved to testify that within 24 hours of taking office, President Obama has put more hours on my time clock and cash in my pocket. I work for an independently owned income tax office, the kind that's known locally for quality work. This kind of publicity for Turbotax is really good for our office's business. Thank you, Mr. President!
Gag line aside, I think President Obama will do a lot better with limited resources than the Republicans could have done.
I am moved to testify that within 24 hours of taking office, President Obama has put more hours on my time clock and cash in my pocket. I work for an independently owned income tax office, the kind that's known locally for quality work. This kind of publicity for Turbotax is really good for our office's business. Thank you, Mr. President!
Gag line aside, I think President Obama will do a lot better with limited resources than the Republicans could have done.
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The human
Posted by: wormfarmer on Jan 22, 2009 10:01 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: wormfarmer on Jan 22, 2009 10:01 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
condition needs regulation, if left without it,............ We've seen just how insane our culture is prone to be. I'm willing to be regulated for the period of time it takes to reclaim a resemblance of sanity. It's not regulation I'm concerned with, its the unreasonable ways it can be wielded. The pendulum swings both ways, it is up to the PEOPLE to seek and apply reason. Speak up. Get involved in our government. Shut down the central bank.
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The focal point
Posted by: Izaiah on Jan 22, 2009 10:39 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Izaiah on Jan 22, 2009 10:39 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The focal point of this plan is job-producing projects that can get started quickly. In addition, he says he is going to provide assistance for middle and low-income families, who are the ones who typically take out payday loans, and provide debt relief for students. He plans to do this through a form of tax cuts and he plans to invest in infrastructure such as bridges, roads and water mains. We’re going to need a huge dose of that stimulus plan to at least stabilize the U.S. economy in this deepening recession. I found an interesting article from my payday loan source that talks about the new economic plan. It turns out Republicans are not the only party opposing President Barack Obama’s tax cut proposals. The Democrats are arguing that the economic stimulus plan in which Obama calls the American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan will be far from effective. Some believe the mix of tax breaks currently proposed will not provide exactly what the American nation is in need of. Democratic leaders came out strongly against tax cuts outlined in the plan, which would decrease withholdings from Americans’ paychecks and offer tax incentives to businesses that hired new workers. The Bush administration’s stimulus check plan last year made little difference, and many argue that the tax cuts resemble that initiative. You can learn more about President Obama’s economic plan through this article I found on the payday loan blog at PersonalMoneyStore.com.
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» RE: The focal point
Posted by: Shey
Comments are closed-
Green Alert! Green Alert!! Reuters article misleading and inaccurate
Posted by: Shey on Jan 23, 2009 4:05 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Shey on Jan 23, 2009 4:05 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Reuters article posted above by Jennifer Bedingfield is both misleading and inaccurate, and hardly hands a "victory to big oil" as the heading of the comment claims.
Just read it carefully. First they covered their asses by stating (accurately) that "Shortly after being sworn in, Obama ordered all Federal Agencies and Departments to halt pending regulations until they can be reviewed by incoming staff".
But then the misleading language starts. It goes on to say "A spokesman said that the Department has been notified by the White House that it will be able to proceed with a proposed draft of a five year plan to lease areas in the Atlantic and Pacific waters for oil and natural gas drilling."
The only comment from President Obama's administration so far is from the new Secretary of Interior Ken Salazar, who said that that Interior is "likely to scale back" the Bush plan. Hardly a ringing endorsement, much less the "go ahead" indicated by the skillfully misleading wording of the Reuters article.
And it's very likely that they'll end up doing much more than just scaling it back, when you consider the fact that one of President Obama's first acts was to rescind Bush's OK to drill in the vicinity of protected wilderness areas and National Parks in Utah and Colorado.
Read the sour grapes comments and "supporting" articles very carefully people, we're going to be bombarded by misleading, inaccurate bullshit like this, day in and day out.
Just read it carefully. First they covered their asses by stating (accurately) that "Shortly after being sworn in, Obama ordered all Federal Agencies and Departments to halt pending regulations until they can be reviewed by incoming staff".
But then the misleading language starts. It goes on to say "A spokesman said that the Department has been notified by the White House that it will be able to proceed with a proposed draft of a five year plan to lease areas in the Atlantic and Pacific waters for oil and natural gas drilling."
The only comment from President Obama's administration so far is from the new Secretary of Interior Ken Salazar, who said that that Interior is "likely to scale back" the Bush plan. Hardly a ringing endorsement, much less the "go ahead" indicated by the skillfully misleading wording of the Reuters article.
And it's very likely that they'll end up doing much more than just scaling it back, when you consider the fact that one of President Obama's first acts was to rescind Bush's OK to drill in the vicinity of protected wilderness areas and National Parks in Utah and Colorado.
Read the sour grapes comments and "supporting" articles very carefully people, we're going to be bombarded by misleading, inaccurate bullshit like this, day in and day out.
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» RE: Green Alert! Green Alert!! Reuters article misleading and inaccurate
Posted by: maglindracia
» RE: Bunk Alert! Bunk Alert!! Shey's interpretation misleading and inaccurate
Posted by: GuitarBill
» I didn't jump all over anyone.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» I understand the meaning of "if". Too bad you don't understand the meaning of "Freedom of Speech".
Posted by: GuitarBill
Comments are closed-
by the people and for the people
Posted by: wagnerrocks@gmail.com on Jan 23, 2009 10:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: wagnerrocks@gmail.com on Jan 23, 2009 10:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I said it on the first news of the bailout...why bail out the banks and wall street? they created the entire mess we are in. Instead, give the bailout funds directly to the people...it will be spent and directly lift the economy, infuse the banks, and keep families in their homes. Then nationalize the banks, stop corporations from manufacturing overseas and return it to our country. i could go on, but what I think has pretty much been covered by this intense stream of comments I've been reading for the last 4 hours. Thanks to all who care so much about America's future.
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OBAMA TO GOP: SHUT UP
Posted by: reelman on Jan 24, 2009 9:36 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: reelman on Jan 24, 2009 9:36 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From article by CHARLES HURT, BUREAU CHIEF, 1.23.09
WASHINGTON -- President Obama warned Republicans on Capitol Hill today that they need to quit listening to radio king Rush Limbaugh if they want to get along with Democrats and the new administration.
"You can't just listen to Rush Limbaugh and get things done," he told top GOP leaders, whom he had invited to the White House to discuss his nearly $1 trillion stimulus package.
One White House official confirmed the comment but said he was simply trying to make a larger point about bipartisan efforts.
"There are big things that unify Republicans and Democrats," the official said. "We shouldn't let partisan politics derail what are very important things that need to get done."
--
CRAWFISH NOTE: Permit me to translate...only Democrats are allowed to stand on their principles when in the minority...we do not want comparisons or questions or plans to reach the voters, no scrutiny of trillion dollar socialist "borrow to spend" porky vote-buying bills is allowed...the liberal owners of "partisan politics" dare to accuse others (as they always always do). Democrats want only "shared blame"...so when it all goes to crap as it always has when socialists take over an economy (aka Jimmah Carter)...the libmedia diaper-changers can say "Republicans also supported....".
Stand tall, resist this trashing of an economy...continue to challenge secular socialism and loudly offer alternatives!!!
(http://www.conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish/)
WASHINGTON -- President Obama warned Republicans on Capitol Hill today that they need to quit listening to radio king Rush Limbaugh if they want to get along with Democrats and the new administration.
"You can't just listen to Rush Limbaugh and get things done," he told top GOP leaders, whom he had invited to the White House to discuss his nearly $1 trillion stimulus package.
One White House official confirmed the comment but said he was simply trying to make a larger point about bipartisan efforts.
"There are big things that unify Republicans and Democrats," the official said. "We shouldn't let partisan politics derail what are very important things that need to get done."
--
CRAWFISH NOTE: Permit me to translate...only Democrats are allowed to stand on their principles when in the minority...we do not want comparisons or questions or plans to reach the voters, no scrutiny of trillion dollar socialist "borrow to spend" porky vote-buying bills is allowed...the liberal owners of "partisan politics" dare to accuse others (as they always always do). Democrats want only "shared blame"...so when it all goes to crap as it always has when socialists take over an economy (aka Jimmah Carter)...the libmedia diaper-changers can say "Republicans also supported....".
Stand tall, resist this trashing of an economy...continue to challenge secular socialism and loudly offer alternatives!!!
(http://www.conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish/)
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Shut up
Posted by: Shey on Jan 25, 2009 5:04 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Shey on Jan 25, 2009 5:04 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In light of what the GOP has done to this country over the years, especially but certainly not exclusively the Shrub/Darth Cheney years, those who aren't willing to work with the new legitimately elected administration and Democratic majority in Congress, damn well need to 'shut up'.
Although that isn't what Obama said. Way to go with the trying to create a new myth for the gullible.
Although that isn't what Obama said. Way to go with the trying to create a new myth for the gullible.
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» RUSH CHALLENGES OBAMA! (alternate idea)
Posted by: reelman
» "Shut up"? You sound like Bill O'Reilly.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Shut up
Posted by: reelman
Comments are closed-
Porkulus
Posted by: McMusicman1 on Jan 28, 2009 4:48 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: McMusicman1 on Jan 28, 2009 4:48 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All hail the Messiah's Porkulus plan has passed!
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quick fix
Posted by: abletuno1 on Jan 28, 2009 9:56 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: abletuno1 on Jan 28, 2009 9:56 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
socialize health care, stimulus 455k to married filers and 255 for single filers, mandetory credit paydowns, no vagas vacations.
all troops home use the drones and two teams.
and find all unexploded ordinances off the coast of florida from 20-30 year old blunder which left a live atom bomb in sediment just fifty yards from the coast. (a cable tv show with recent past 10 years show it was not found)
put tarrifs on corporation that have outsourced, so they bring home jobs. legalize marijuana
all troops home use the drones and two teams.
and find all unexploded ordinances off the coast of florida from 20-30 year old blunder which left a live atom bomb in sediment just fifty yards from the coast. (a cable tv show with recent past 10 years show it was not found)
put tarrifs on corporation that have outsourced, so they bring home jobs. legalize marijuana
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Re:Obama's Economic Plan will not going to save us
Posted by: EverettW on Jan 29, 2009 10:51 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: EverettW on Jan 29, 2009 10:51 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many question and issues arises when President Obama announced his economic stimulus plan that will save our faltering economy to the deepening economic crisis. Many people are still asking if the economy will go back to what it is before we hit by the economic crisis. As of now many people are still in need of payday loan to buy their necessities. In addition to this, Lobbyists looking to establish influence over bailout funds couldn't get their way no matter how many online payday loans they got. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner has declared that any officials that deal with bailout fund allocation can have no communications with lobbyists or lawmakers. This new declaration effectively puts the Department of the Treasury and all agents and otherwise only under the influence of the numbers and facts – like how online payday loans put all the information right in front of you. Geithner believes that the Treasury should not have outside influences, and should help those that need it, like online payday loans help those in need. Read more about the bailouts and payday loans at the Money Blog.
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Alternet Comments:
» This was Obama's mandate
Posted by: scheherezade
» How does this author know what Obama's "INTENT" was???
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: How does this author know what Obama's "INTENT" was???
Posted by: willymack
» I thought you ragged on Obama because you were on the rag...
Posted by: kimbari
» Here's a caveat for you
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: Here's a caveat for you
Posted by: mmckinl
» I am unsure of what you just said.... are you saying no more anything economic ....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Post Your Health Care and Taxes Comments to the White House web site
Posted by: blondesprite
» Well to do pay more taxes????
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Well, Sure...
Posted by: Perry Logan
» RE: Well, Sure...
Posted by: maxfactor
» Way to go, Beck!
Posted by: hagwind
» Good Point!
Posted by: RevolutionNet
» Sure Dick!..lets go back to Bush economics!!
Posted by: donl51
» How do you know what Obama really advocates??? Do you know him...
Posted by: Prophit
» No, we can't wait, although I do empathize
Posted by: Beck
» WEll, you go right ahead Beck, but you obviously didn't hear about....
Posted by: Prophit
» There are plenty of local specialty chocolate shops, Prophit
Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: Brace for impact
Posted by: HoldmAccountable
» RE: Brace for impact
Posted by: Shey
» Yup, just wait and see..... I agree wholeheartedly with that.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Brace for impact
Posted by: ender
» RE: Brace for impact
Posted by: maglindracia
» RE: Brace for impact
Posted by: ender
» RE: Don't be silly -
Posted by: TheLimit
» You're in for a big surprise
Posted by: donl51
» I agree with you to some extent, but when the slavery is done by ....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Man , that's it?
Posted by: QuestionAuthority
» RE: Dear Mr. Greider
Posted by: praedor
» RE: JFK tried
Posted by: Sushi
» John Alexander McCone was head of the CIA when JFK was assassinated,
Posted by: LeftWright
» here's another not discussed
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Dear Mr. Greider
Posted by: ron heringhauser
» RE: I need "Economics for Dummies :-) (GREAT Post.)
Posted by: Jayzer
» RE: LOL, you flatter me Jayzer...
Posted by: watching-n-waiting
» RE: LOL, you flatter me Jayzer...
Posted by: watching-n-waiting
» RE: OOPS posted twice instead of this:
Posted by: watching-n-waiting
» RE: OOPS posted twice instead of this:
Posted by: maglindracia
» RE: I need "Economics for Dummies :-) (GREAT Post.)
Posted by: donl51
» RE: I need "Economics for Dummies :-)
Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: I need "Economics for Dummies :-)
Posted by: Shey
» RE: I need "Economics for Dummies :-)
Posted by: maglindracia
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go (ALSO an Excellent Post)
Posted by: Jayzer
» RE: yeah Shibboleth I agree with jayzer...
Posted by: watching-n-waiting
» RE: yeah Shibboleth I agree with jayzer...
Posted by: Beck
» You still think these powerful fascists give a rats butt about workers?
Posted by: Prophit
» Are you Bi-Polar??? Either high as a kite or depressed and doomed.
Posted by: Prophit
» KICK OUT THE DAMN BANKERS....I agree, but How?
Posted by: chance garden
» RE: yeah Shibboleth I agree with jayzer...
Posted by: maglindracia
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: QuestionAuthority
» Come on people, what did you expect when our agriculture....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: Shey
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: Shey
» Oh, I have no doubt your right about that one....... maybe not...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: praedor
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: maglindracia
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: SteveO
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: Shey
» RE: Exactly: Look up Herman Daly
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: monkeywrench
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: Shey
» Amen to that
Posted by: Beck
» You know, Beck, you either harping about how glorious Obama is ....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: If anyone thinks they
Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: If anyone thinks they
Posted by: Shey
» And certainly not by Obama's supporters either....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: If I could let the banks fail, I would
Posted by: DCostello2
» Of course you're right with regard to what we SHOULD expect...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Hahaha, so the expectations are decreasing as we speak.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Talk the talk; walked the walk his first day
Posted by: Beck
» Given the level of seriousness of our financial predicament, those are nothing....
Posted by: Prophit
» Really? I thought it was that since he was returning to Clinton's policies, it wasn't even change
Posted by: Beck
» Now this is a perfect example of what I have been trying to say to you...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Talk the talk; walked the walk his first day
Posted by: Shey
» RE: Talk the talk
Posted by: avidAmerican
» Yup, he has the glib say nothing ability to speak and everyone....
Posted by: Prophit
» I just tried that yesterday, and it didn't work... let me know if you...
Posted by: Prophit
» http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
Posted by: Beck
» Beck. Thank you for the URL
Posted by: Dixie Dawg
» RE: http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
Posted by: Shey
» Well, finally, someone addressing the reality, its refreshing... thanks
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: There is no solution
Posted by: Shey
» RE: There is no solution
Posted by: satwa.gunam
» Oh, good, somebody addressing the serious issues.....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Oh, good, somebody addressing the serious issues.....
Posted by: Craig Collier
» Excellent analysis and a good foundation for a beginning.....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: xcellent analysis and a good foundation for a beginning.....
Posted by: Craig Collier
» Very well analyzed and presented..... thanks
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Very well analyzed and presented..... thanks
Posted by: welshTerrier2
» RE: Very well analyzed and presented..... thanks
Posted by: welshTerrier2
» In other words, bring our military home from all those foreign bases....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Obama's Leaky Rowboat
Posted by: maglindracia
» RE: Obama's Leaky Rowboat
Posted by: welshTerrier2
» How much were you paid to write that?
Posted by: and_abottleofrum
» RE: What Milwaukee needs.....
Posted by: praedor
» Unless you build a wall
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» A big myth Economic growth and profitable investment opportunity not corporate tax rates matter most
Posted by: yellow
» What America needs.....
Posted by: MausMasher54
» Milwaukee is a great city
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» aren't you describing the very system that just failed?
Posted by: watching-n-waiting
» A robber barons dream.... LOL
Posted by: Prophit
» Cutting Corporate Tax Rates to Zero won't result in more investment if there is no consumer spending
Posted by: yellow
» I Believe I said Public Investment not AIG's sham nonsense.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Too big to fail
Posted by: maglindracia
» Reforms without establishing sound money...
Posted by: chance garden
» There is a bill in to do away with the Federal Reserve....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: There is a bill in to do away with the Federal Reserve....
Posted by: gazooks
» The Fed and Tax relief is NOT the issue. America is very lightly taxed and still there is no Growth!
Posted by: yellow
» Enough with the Usual BS already. I wish the whole lotta ya would get a clue already!!
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Enough with the Usual BS already
Posted by: chance garden
» But none of this is true and none of it is relevant.
Posted by: yellow
» To Quote Springsteen... sounds like the Carolinas in the late 1990's
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» RE: The Stimulus went directly to China
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield
» Bad news for ya... China is Goldman Sachs biggest client..
Posted by: Prophit
» Send a 3 trillion bill 2 China 4 technology they stole!
Posted by: solstice
» RE: FDR Gave Out Huge Stimulus Packages
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield
» Very good comment...well thought out,..thankyou!
Posted by: donl51
» That would be lovely.
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield
» RE: Thanx sirios,
Posted by: watching-n-waiting
» The end of the armed robbery of the american public.
Posted by: rafaeltoral
» their unregulated communist system allows massive corruption
Posted by: chance garden
» how stupid are we we gave our technology away!
Posted by: solstice
» Yup - and capital flow liberalization rules written into NAFTA, CAFTA, etc. made it all possible
Posted by: gunboat diplomat
» So how is this "critique" in conflict with what I said?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Karl Denniger's Cramdown - Might seem Ruthless - But It May Provide a Solution That will Work
Posted by: a2plusb2equalc2
» Reverting to colonialism and rule by robber barons, you mean.
Posted by: gunboat diplomat
» RE: Declare an "Emergency" and invoke NSPD-51...
Posted by: satwa.gunam
» bRANd oBAMa
Posted by: chance garden
» RE: bRANd nADEr?
Posted by: Beck
» RE: bRANd nADEr?
Posted by: chance garden
» RE: A Different Kind of Bailout
Posted by: kattfish
» RE: A Different Kind of Bailout
Posted by: maglindracia
» Yeah, offshore drilling, that's a "progressive" policy.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Yeah, offshore drilling, that's a "progressive" policy.
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield
» RE: Yeah, offshore drilling, that's a "progressive" policy.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» Yikes! I guess they'll be riding oil globs at Mavericks soon...
Posted by: chance garden
» RE: D ALERT !! RED ALERT !! KISSY FACE OBAMA JUST GAVE BIG OIL A MAJOR MAJOR "VICTORY" !!!
Posted by: Shey
» As predicted, the Obamabots will rationalize Obama's offshore drilling
Posted by: GuitarBill
» I agree GuitarBill, but you did not refute what Shey said, so why jump all over him? n/m
Posted by: PaulC
» RE: I agree GuitarBill, but you did not refute what Shey said, so why jump all over him? n/m
Posted by: Shey
» On the contrary, you're rationalizing.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: I like it Liberty G!
Posted by: watching-n-waiting
» RE: I like it Liberty G!
Posted by: a2plusb2equalc2
» RE: And Now For Something Completely Different
Posted by: maglindracia
» Nationalize? Did he say the "N" word?
Posted by: chance garden
» RE: And just brace yourself as one imagines Palin/McCain!
Posted by: watching-n-waiting
» RE: The focal point
Posted by: Shey
» RE: Green Alert! Green Alert!! Reuters article misleading and inaccurate
Posted by: maglindracia
» RE: Bunk Alert! Bunk Alert!! Shey's interpretation misleading and inaccurate
Posted by: GuitarBill
» I didn't jump all over anyone.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» I understand the meaning of "if". Too bad you don't understand the meaning of "Freedom of Speech".
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RUSH CHALLENGES OBAMA! (alternate idea)
Posted by: reelman
» "Shut up"? You sound like Bill O'Reilly.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Shut up
Posted by: reelman
Comments are closed-
Great article but Two Things ... Health Care and Taxes
Posted by: mmckinl on Jan 22, 2009 12:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: mmckinl on Jan 22, 2009 12:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would add two caveats ... and they are :
~ Medicare for All ... pays for everyones medical care
~ The well to do and corporations pay higher taxes. That all income be taxed as ordinary income and that tax loopholes be closed.
Tax Cuts ?
We need tax increases on the well to do and the Democrats should start to combat the rhetoric of tax cuts ASAP. We don't need more private investment. The whole problem with loans right now is that too much money was invested in production. And that is why we should get rid of the capital gains tax, the estate tax, the dividend tax and turn them all into regular income taxes, there is little need for capital in the private sector for new investment.
The second reason for tax increases is the budget deficit. As we all know it is skyrocketing. We have to close this gap. One could make the argument that these are taxes that Bush should have levied to pay for two wars and now the chickens have come home to roost. Before Bush, every war was accompanied by a tax increase to pay for it.
The third reason for tax increases is that it will help thwart speculation. Speculation ran rampant from 1925-1929, 1996-2000 and 2004-2006. The commonality ? Lowered tax rates ...
The fourth reason is that tax rates are historically low. A top rate of 38% is near 75 year lows, capital gains and dividends rates at 15% are both at their historic lows. We need more receipts for repayment of war debt, social programs for the current economic crisis and to help balance the budget because of the budget neglect of 8 years of Republican rule.
We need to promote tax increases on the well to do often and vigorously for all of the above reasons and to counter the Conservative mantra of tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts. Without the debate the Conservatives hold all the cards ... Yet all I hear from Obama's economists is that we need to look at SSI and Medicare, this is Bull Shit. We need to look at tax increases first and foremost.
~ Medicare for All ... pays for everyones medical care
~ The well to do and corporations pay higher taxes. That all income be taxed as ordinary income and that tax loopholes be closed.
Tax Cuts ?
We need tax increases on the well to do and the Democrats should start to combat the rhetoric of tax cuts ASAP. We don't need more private investment. The whole problem with loans right now is that too much money was invested in production. And that is why we should get rid of the capital gains tax, the estate tax, the dividend tax and turn them all into regular income taxes, there is little need for capital in the private sector for new investment.
The second reason for tax increases is the budget deficit. As we all know it is skyrocketing. We have to close this gap. One could make the argument that these are taxes that Bush should have levied to pay for two wars and now the chickens have come home to roost. Before Bush, every war was accompanied by a tax increase to pay for it.
The third reason for tax increases is that it will help thwart speculation. Speculation ran rampant from 1925-1929, 1996-2000 and 2004-2006. The commonality ? Lowered tax rates ...
The fourth reason is that tax rates are historically low. A top rate of 38% is near 75 year lows, capital gains and dividends rates at 15% are both at their historic lows. We need more receipts for repayment of war debt, social programs for the current economic crisis and to help balance the budget because of the budget neglect of 8 years of Republican rule.
We need to promote tax increases on the well to do often and vigorously for all of the above reasons and to counter the Conservative mantra of tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts. Without the debate the Conservatives hold all the cards ... Yet all I hear from Obama's economists is that we need to look at SSI and Medicare, this is Bull Shit. We need to look at tax increases first and foremost.
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» This was Obama's mandate
Posted by: scheherezade
» How does this author know what Obama's "INTENT" was???
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: How does this author know what Obama's "INTENT" was???
Posted by: willymack
» I thought you ragged on Obama because you were on the rag...
Posted by: kimbari
» Here's a caveat for you
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: Here's a caveat for you
Posted by: mmckinl
» I am unsure of what you just said.... are you saying no more anything economic ....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Post Your Health Care and Taxes Comments to the White House web site
Posted by: blondesprite
» Well to do pay more taxes????
Posted by: 2thepoint
Comments are closed-
Well, Sure...
Posted by: RevolutionNet on Jan 22, 2009 12:45 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: RevolutionNet on Jan 22, 2009 12:45 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wasn't that the point all along? To "Carterize" Obama by creating conditions that will make 8+ more years of nazism inevitable?
Do you actually think that any of this is arbitrary?
FREE AMERICA
REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY
Do you actually think that any of this is arbitrary?
FREE AMERICA
REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Well, Sure...
Posted by: Perry Logan
» RE: Well, Sure...
Posted by: maxfactor
» Way to go, Beck!
Posted by: hagwind
» Good Point!
Posted by: RevolutionNet
» Sure Dick!..lets go back to Bush economics!!
Posted by: donl51
» How do you know what Obama really advocates??? Do you know him...
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Brace for impact
Posted by: ender on Jan 22, 2009 1:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: ender on Jan 22, 2009 1:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nothing we do will have any lasting effects until people have good paying jobs. A solid middle class is the foundation of a strong economy. Workers salaries must be protected from foreign slave wages by bringing back the labor tariffs that ensured American labor was competitive internationally.
Nothing we do will have any lasting effects as long as the Federal Reserve remains in place. See http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com and addendum for a brilliant tutorial on the biggest Ponzi scheme of all.
Nothing we do will have any effects as long as the criminals remain unpunished and lobbyists/industries operate without strong, enforced regulations.
Nothing we do will have any effects as long as fines for breaking laws are minimal. When fines for illegal activities cost companies pennies on the dollar, fines become simply part of the cost of doing business. And corporations must be stripped of their bogus "personhood" status.
Nothing we do will have any lasting effects if we do not return to being a meritocracy and a more egalitarian economic system. The whole thing that is crashing down before our eyes right now was glaringly obvious to anyone with a 7th grader's understanding of math who was paying attention, but it is the "experts" who didn't see this coming (and NEVER do) and those already in power that have the golden parachutes. The rest of us get the bill...and the shaft.
Trillions of dollars could be saved right now by cutting the bloated military budget, enacting universal healthcare and ending the "war on drugs," but it's unlikely that any of these will be done.
BTW, when do students with loans get their bailout money?
Best of luck to everyone.
Nothing we do will have any lasting effects as long as the Federal Reserve remains in place. See http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com and addendum for a brilliant tutorial on the biggest Ponzi scheme of all.
Nothing we do will have any effects as long as the criminals remain unpunished and lobbyists/industries operate without strong, enforced regulations.
Nothing we do will have any effects as long as fines for breaking laws are minimal. When fines for illegal activities cost companies pennies on the dollar, fines become simply part of the cost of doing business. And corporations must be stripped of their bogus "personhood" status.
Nothing we do will have any lasting effects if we do not return to being a meritocracy and a more egalitarian economic system. The whole thing that is crashing down before our eyes right now was glaringly obvious to anyone with a 7th grader's understanding of math who was paying attention, but it is the "experts" who didn't see this coming (and NEVER do) and those already in power that have the golden parachutes. The rest of us get the bill...and the shaft.
Trillions of dollars could be saved right now by cutting the bloated military budget, enacting universal healthcare and ending the "war on drugs," but it's unlikely that any of these will be done.
BTW, when do students with loans get their bailout money?
Best of luck to everyone.
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» No, we can't wait, although I do empathize
Posted by: Beck
» WEll, you go right ahead Beck, but you obviously didn't hear about....
Posted by: Prophit
» There are plenty of local specialty chocolate shops, Prophit
Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: Brace for impact
Posted by: HoldmAccountable
» RE: Brace for impact
Posted by: Shey
» Yup, just wait and see..... I agree wholeheartedly with that.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Brace for impact
Posted by: ender
» RE: Brace for impact
Posted by: maglindracia
» RE: Brace for impact
Posted by: ender
» RE: Don't be silly -
Posted by: TheLimit
» You're in for a big surprise
Posted by: donl51
» I agree with you to some extent, but when the slavery is done by ....
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Man , that's it?
Posted by: shinseiji on Jan 22, 2009 2:17 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: shinseiji on Jan 22, 2009 2:17 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sounds like a regular s#$t storm is headed our way.
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» RE: Man , that's it?
Posted by: QuestionAuthority
Comments are closed-
Dear Mr. Greider
Posted by: boboh7 on Jan 22, 2009 2:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: boboh7 on Jan 22, 2009 2:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You, and most everyone else, are failing to propose the key element that must be included in an economic recovery program if it is to succeed: Nationalize the Federal Reserve (repeal the Federal Reserve Act of 1913) and retrieve the authority provided to our federal government in the constitution to create the nation's money. The present privatized system causes the national debt to increase each time money is created (by the Fed's process of creating money by monetizing debt) and then taxes must be raised to service that growing debt. Nationalize money creation for federal programs and there will be no debt and no interest and much lower taxes. Of course other changes will be needed too but this is the only one I have not seen being discussed. I know the objections to it and they can be obviated easily. There are so many huge advantages to we the people by doing this that it would take more words than you allow to discuss them all.
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» RE: Dear Mr. Greider
Posted by: praedor
» RE: JFK tried
Posted by: Sushi
» John Alexander McCone was head of the CIA when JFK was assassinated,
Posted by: LeftWright
» here's another not discussed
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Dear Mr. Greider
Posted by: ron heringhauser
Comments are closed-
I need "Economics for Dummies :-)
Posted by: watching-n-waiting on Jan 22, 2009 3:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: watching-n-waiting on Jan 22, 2009 3:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Economics sure isn't my forte- to be completely honest this downfall makes not one iota of sense to me other than obvious things such as the idiocy of paying CEOS $17,000 an hour (or was that per minute?) and then a 13 million dollar retirement bonus because "his failure could have been worse".
Even more insane was the "they're too big to fail" thing followed by 350 billion in TARP funding so that they could merge, thus making themselves even bigger.
Again, this isn't my area so I don't know what is and is not realistic. Therefore I'll just fantasize... a half dozen small measures that make sense to me (in my very limited understanding) are:
(i) Simply recall that money (the 350 billion). Paulson was instructed to be transparent. Instead he has been secretive and cagey. Okay- right, then return the money (it's got to be somewhere).
(ii) I run a household, a micro-economy. One budgeting concept that works for me is to purchase quality so that I only have to "buy it" once.
Translated to supporting the economy I'd have to say a sensible "purchase" would be single payer health care. If we stabilize the health of our population there will be considerably less economic pressure brought to bare.
(iii) Executive order#1 (I did say this is a fantasy): force big oil to take those windfall profits and bailout the auto industry for whose benefit all those gas-guzzlers were manufactured.
(iv) Executive order #2: force Blackwater and Haliburton to finance the exit from Iraq since Iraq was staged for their benefit.
(v) Freeze ALL aid to Israel (I know in the great grand sceme of things that's pocket change but it all adds up).
(vi) OF COURSE freeze foreclosures.
(vii) And be certain to include (for frikken christ sake) the rebuilding of New Orleans in the greening of our infrastructure restoration.
Sorry to have offer such a lay-persons perspective. I'll be sure to follow this thread cuz I'm sure I will glean from it a more nuanced perspective.
Even more insane was the "they're too big to fail" thing followed by 350 billion in TARP funding so that they could merge, thus making themselves even bigger.
Again, this isn't my area so I don't know what is and is not realistic. Therefore I'll just fantasize... a half dozen small measures that make sense to me (in my very limited understanding) are:
(i) Simply recall that money (the 350 billion). Paulson was instructed to be transparent. Instead he has been secretive and cagey. Okay- right, then return the money (it's got to be somewhere).
(ii) I run a household, a micro-economy. One budgeting concept that works for me is to purchase quality so that I only have to "buy it" once.
Translated to supporting the economy I'd have to say a sensible "purchase" would be single payer health care. If we stabilize the health of our population there will be considerably less economic pressure brought to bare.
(iii) Executive order#1 (I did say this is a fantasy): force big oil to take those windfall profits and bailout the auto industry for whose benefit all those gas-guzzlers were manufactured.
(iv) Executive order #2: force Blackwater and Haliburton to finance the exit from Iraq since Iraq was staged for their benefit.
(v) Freeze ALL aid to Israel (I know in the great grand sceme of things that's pocket change but it all adds up).
(vi) OF COURSE freeze foreclosures.
(vii) And be certain to include (for frikken christ sake) the rebuilding of New Orleans in the greening of our infrastructure restoration.
Sorry to have offer such a lay-persons perspective. I'll be sure to follow this thread cuz I'm sure I will glean from it a more nuanced perspective.
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» RE: I need "Economics for Dummies :-) (GREAT Post.)
Posted by: Jayzer
» RE: LOL, you flatter me Jayzer...
Posted by: watching-n-waiting
» RE: LOL, you flatter me Jayzer...
Posted by: watching-n-waiting
» RE: OOPS posted twice instead of this:
Posted by: watching-n-waiting
» RE: OOPS posted twice instead of this:
Posted by: maglindracia
» RE: I need "Economics for Dummies :-) (GREAT Post.)
Posted by: donl51
» RE: I need "Economics for Dummies :-)
Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: I need "Economics for Dummies :-)
Posted by: Shey
» RE: I need "Economics for Dummies :-)
Posted by: maglindracia
Comments are closed-
Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: editnetwork on Jan 22, 2009 4:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: editnetwork on Jan 22, 2009 4:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Economies cannot grow indefinitely on a finite planet, especially one so crowded.
This is unpleasant news to the left wing of the Corporocrat party, but predicating health on growth as the sine qua non is like depending on cancer to reach mature size -- and the analogy breaks down faster than most.
We need an entirely different basis of economic health in the world today, and one way or another it's probably coming down to local exchange systems -- not "globalization." (Let's trash that one while we're at it: another mechanism for deflecting wealth in the direction of the wealthy.) Grow and buy local -- keep the corner hardware store in business rather than the big box miles away.
To say that the "fundamentals" need reexamination is looking like the understatement of the new century. Echoing another who commented earlier: good luck to all of us.
This is unpleasant news to the left wing of the Corporocrat party, but predicating health on growth as the sine qua non is like depending on cancer to reach mature size -- and the analogy breaks down faster than most.
We need an entirely different basis of economic health in the world today, and one way or another it's probably coming down to local exchange systems -- not "globalization." (Let's trash that one while we're at it: another mechanism for deflecting wealth in the direction of the wealthy.) Grow and buy local -- keep the corner hardware store in business rather than the big box miles away.
To say that the "fundamentals" need reexamination is looking like the understatement of the new century. Echoing another who commented earlier: good luck to all of us.
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» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go (ALSO an Excellent Post)
Posted by: Jayzer
» RE: yeah Shibboleth I agree with jayzer...
Posted by: watching-n-waiting
» RE: yeah Shibboleth I agree with jayzer...
Posted by: Beck
» You still think these powerful fascists give a rats butt about workers?
Posted by: Prophit
» Are you Bi-Polar??? Either high as a kite or depressed and doomed.
Posted by: Prophit
» KICK OUT THE DAMN BANKERS....I agree, but How?
Posted by: chance garden
» RE: yeah Shibboleth I agree with jayzer...
Posted by: maglindracia
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: QuestionAuthority
» Come on people, what did you expect when our agriculture....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: Shey
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: Shey
» Oh, I have no doubt your right about that one....... maybe not...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: praedor
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: maglindracia
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: SteveO
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: Shey
» RE: Exactly: Look up Herman Daly
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: monkeywrench
» RE: Shibboleth of infinite growth has to go
Posted by: Shey
Comments are closed-
If anyone thinks they
Posted by: avidAmerican on Jan 22, 2009 5:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: avidAmerican on Jan 22, 2009 5:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
can do better, let them all come forward right now and save us. He can't do it alone, we also need to help ourselves. So just get up off your butts and get out there and do what you can to help us.
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» Amen to that
Posted by: Beck
» You know, Beck, you either harping about how glorious Obama is ....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: If anyone thinks they
Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: If anyone thinks they
Posted by: Shey
» And certainly not by Obama's supporters either....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: If I could let the banks fail, I would
Posted by: DCostello2
Comments are closed-
If you're waiting on some politician to save you...
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Jan 22, 2009 5:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Jan 22, 2009 5:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...then you're doing it wrong.
I'd be thrilled if he contributed something to just not getting it wrong, in my name as a citizen.
Ok, it would have been nice if some of our politicians would have gotten up off their grand keisters (Blanco) or shown a tad more interest during the crisis (Bush and FEMA) when Katrina hit those who chose to ride out the storm. When you have zero other places to turn, it would be nice if a politician or two used a few of our tax dollars to salvage some lives in a jiff.
Economically? No thanks. Just watching those we trust a little better with decent regulation, stopping the monopolization, and deconstructing public-private behemoths that remove responsible lending from the principle job of local banks, and I think he'd do just fine.
No white knight riding in necessary, certainly no need to live my life in daily anxiety over what BHO is going to do for me today. At the end of four or eight years, if he's simply not screwed up things worse and has managed to fix a few things, I'm sure I'll be having a Scotch in his honor as one of the few thoughtful and successful people the demoboobs and republicats have offered us in my lifetime.
So, listen, we've set our expectations fairly low, BHO: don't eff this up. You fulfilled your campaign promise of "change" by not actually being GWB...now go forth and do something not terrible!
I'd be thrilled if he contributed something to just not getting it wrong, in my name as a citizen.
Ok, it would have been nice if some of our politicians would have gotten up off their grand keisters (Blanco) or shown a tad more interest during the crisis (Bush and FEMA) when Katrina hit those who chose to ride out the storm. When you have zero other places to turn, it would be nice if a politician or two used a few of our tax dollars to salvage some lives in a jiff.
Economically? No thanks. Just watching those we trust a little better with decent regulation, stopping the monopolization, and deconstructing public-private behemoths that remove responsible lending from the principle job of local banks, and I think he'd do just fine.
No white knight riding in necessary, certainly no need to live my life in daily anxiety over what BHO is going to do for me today. At the end of four or eight years, if he's simply not screwed up things worse and has managed to fix a few things, I'm sure I'll be having a Scotch in his honor as one of the few thoughtful and successful people the demoboobs and republicats have offered us in my lifetime.
So, listen, we've set our expectations fairly low, BHO: don't eff this up. You fulfilled your campaign promise of "change" by not actually being GWB...now go forth and do something not terrible!
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» Of course you're right with regard to what we SHOULD expect...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Hahaha, so the expectations are decreasing as we speak.
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Talk the talk
Posted by: beandang on Jan 22, 2009 5:56 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: beandang on Jan 22, 2009 5:56 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One thing we all know for sure, Obama can give great speeches. He can "Talk the talk". What we want to know now is, can he Walk the Walk? I guess time will tell.
RT
Is your ISP watching you?
RT
Is your ISP watching you?
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» RE: Talk the talk; walked the walk his first day
Posted by: Beck
» Given the level of seriousness of our financial predicament, those are nothing....
Posted by: Prophit
» Really? I thought it was that since he was returning to Clinton's policies, it wasn't even change
Posted by: Beck
» Now this is a perfect example of what I have been trying to say to you...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Talk the talk; walked the walk his first day
Posted by: Shey
» RE: Talk the talk
Posted by: avidAmerican
» Yup, he has the glib say nothing ability to speak and everyone....
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Ok, I have my reservations about Obama but he has 4 years to straighten out this mess.
Posted by: jwverez on Jan 22, 2009 6:44 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: jwverez on Jan 22, 2009 6:44 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sure, I'll still keep my fingers crossed but you all should do what my wife does. Reach out and try to communicate with him and his team and while you all are at it, get your local pols to communicate with Obama if you all really want Washington to open up.
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» I just tried that yesterday, and it didn't work... let me know if you...
Posted by: Prophit
» http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
Posted by: Beck
» Beck. Thank you for the URL
Posted by: Dixie Dawg
» RE: http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
Posted by: Shey
» Well, finally, someone addressing the reality, its refreshing... thanks
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
There is no solution
Posted by: Gregory Kruse on Jan 22, 2009 6:57 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Gregory Kruse on Jan 22, 2009 6:57 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some banks will survive. Industries will forsake U.S. citizenship before they pay higher taxes. China, India, and Russia, not to mention Japan, will not help us out of the hole we are in, and even if they do, they won't then jump into the hole we just got out of. We have to start making the things we need ourselves even if it costs more to do so. We need to put our smart people to work running businesses that need workers and pay taxes. What are the chances that will happen?
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» RE: There is no solution
Posted by: Shey
» RE: There is no solution
Posted by: satwa.gunam
Comments are closed-
rebuild with a new operating system
Posted by: Craig Collier on Jan 22, 2009 6:59 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Craig Collier on Jan 22, 2009 6:59 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author is dead on. Without using the recovery stimulus to rebuild seriously measurable value into the American system, we cannot ask world markets to support the effort. If we place the recovery funds into the same operating process that got us here, we cannot expect different reuslts. No amout of money would be enough. The first step must be to change the vision of the process. A recent Obama quote about the recovery is a start. "-economic recovery plan is going to be focused on how we can make a series of down payments-". An extension of this might be- how can WE finance the rest of the recovery. Short sighted finance has leveraged us into this situation so long term finance should leverage us out. Michael Lind writing at solon.com calls for the single most important reform to be the creation of a national infrastructure bank that would enable long term bond financing based on public will. WE believe, WE create the finance mechanism, WE build the infrastructure value, and WE extend the opportunity to anyone else in the world that wants to participate. WE have been financing unnatural growth around the world with our debt and now we have a chance to stabilize that growth with our vision.
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» Oh, good, somebody addressing the serious issues.....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Oh, good, somebody addressing the serious issues.....
Posted by: Craig Collier
» Excellent analysis and a good foundation for a beginning.....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: xcellent analysis and a good foundation for a beginning.....
Posted by: Craig Collier
Comments are closed-
Obama's Leaky Rowboat
Posted by: welshTerrier2 on Jan 22, 2009 7:04 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: welshTerrier2 on Jan 22, 2009 7:04 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now is the time to lay down a new vision for change. Yes, we all understand the urgency of the fiscal distress. Yes, we all understand that putting the country back to work can have some positive effects. We will fail, and fail large, if we do not change the essence of our society. Without a larger vision, throwing money at jobs will be only a stop gap.
The total collapse of the US economic system was inevitable. To see it as little more than Bush's incompetence, as so many Democrats do, or to see it primarily as a regulatory failure, as so many Democrats do, yields too much power to those who are blind to the real causes of our current plight.
Greider hits the nail on the head when he calls for "new rules for US multinational enterprises that redefine their obligations to the home economy." We have empowered corporations to act in THEIR self-interest at the expense of the American people. American capitalism has codified and legitimized treason. How long did you think we could survive using that script?
Start with three essential truths before making specific plans for economic recovery.
First, as stated above, we must change the rules that define how domestic corporations operate. We must define our national objectives and then ensure that corporate goals are aligned with our agenda. Those that fail to cooperate should be punished through the tax code. We cannot allow powerful corporations to define our national policies as they have done for far too long.
Second is that global resources are finite and that our current consumer society cannot be sustained. Obama doesn't get that; the Congress doesn't get that; the American people don't get that. We need to make drastic changes in the way we use energy. We need to make drastic changes in the way we grow and distribute our food. We need to make drastic changes in the way we design our communities especially with regard (or lack thereof) to both transportation and water utilization. Twisty little light bulbs and 10 more miles per gallon from CAFE standards are not even close to what needs to change. Every aspect of our society needs to be re-engineered so that we can work towards a sustainable lifestyle.
Third is the globalization of jobs. At any level of economic activity, no country can survive when it permits its corporations to reap benefits from government contracts, favored tax treatment, stable consumer markets and an excessive voice in government while simultaneously allowing the exporting of jobs. A nation that consumes without producing will soon consume nothing at all. That's where we are today. Advertising, incredibly low prices, special financing and all the rest of the gimmicks can't change that. Jobs are indeed an important element of recovery but going deeply into debt to create public jobs WITHOUT REPAIRING THE "JOB LEAK" OF GLOBALIZATION is a dead end. Got that? Calling for an FDR-style public works program is a dead-end unless you first fix the leak in the rowboat. Obama doesn't get that either. He's given power to Clinton's globalization puppets.
The changes called for here cannot happen overnight. There is an urgency to the crisis we face and prompt action, perhaps starting as a massive public works stimulus package, can be part of a larger plan. But, Obama and his colleagues lack the vision of that which must be changed. They, like most Americans, nostalgically cling to the "good old days". They believe that a mere correction in course will set things right again. Until the gaping holes in the hull are repaired, i.e. until we as a nation understand and remedy the deficiencies in our institutions, no course is safe and no recovery is possible.
The total collapse of the US economic system was inevitable. To see it as little more than Bush's incompetence, as so many Democrats do, or to see it primarily as a regulatory failure, as so many Democrats do, yields too much power to those who are blind to the real causes of our current plight.
Greider hits the nail on the head when he calls for "new rules for US multinational enterprises that redefine their obligations to the home economy." We have empowered corporations to act in THEIR self-interest at the expense of the American people. American capitalism has codified and legitimized treason. How long did you think we could survive using that script?
Start with three essential truths before making specific plans for economic recovery.
First, as stated above, we must change the rules that define how domestic corporations operate. We must define our national objectives and then ensure that corporate goals are aligned with our agenda. Those that fail to cooperate should be punished through the tax code. We cannot allow powerful corporations to define our national policies as they have done for far too long.
Second is that global resources are finite and that our current consumer society cannot be sustained. Obama doesn't get that; the Congress doesn't get that; the American people don't get that. We need to make drastic changes in the way we use energy. We need to make drastic changes in the way we grow and distribute our food. We need to make drastic changes in the way we design our communities especially with regard (or lack thereof) to both transportation and water utilization. Twisty little light bulbs and 10 more miles per gallon from CAFE standards are not even close to what needs to change. Every aspect of our society needs to be re-engineered so that we can work towards a sustainable lifestyle.
Third is the globalization of jobs. At any level of economic activity, no country can survive when it permits its corporations to reap benefits from government contracts, favored tax treatment, stable consumer markets and an excessive voice in government while simultaneously allowing the exporting of jobs. A nation that consumes without producing will soon consume nothing at all. That's where we are today. Advertising, incredibly low prices, special financing and all the rest of the gimmicks can't change that. Jobs are indeed an important element of recovery but going deeply into debt to create public jobs WITHOUT REPAIRING THE "JOB LEAK" OF GLOBALIZATION is a dead end. Got that? Calling for an FDR-style public works program is a dead-end unless you first fix the leak in the rowboat. Obama doesn't get that either. He's given power to Clinton's globalization puppets.
The changes called for here cannot happen overnight. There is an urgency to the crisis we face and prompt action, perhaps starting as a massive public works stimulus package, can be part of a larger plan. But, Obama and his colleagues lack the vision of that which must be changed. They, like most Americans, nostalgically cling to the "good old days". They believe that a mere correction in course will set things right again. Until the gaping holes in the hull are repaired, i.e. until we as a nation understand and remedy the deficiencies in our institutions, no course is safe and no recovery is possible.
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» Very well analyzed and presented..... thanks
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Very well analyzed and presented..... thanks
Posted by: welshTerrier2
» RE: Very well analyzed and presented..... thanks
Posted by: welshTerrier2
» In other words, bring our military home from all those foreign bases....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Obama's Leaky Rowboat
Posted by: maglindracia
» RE: Obama's Leaky Rowboat
Posted by: welshTerrier2
Comments are closed-
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
Comments are closed-
What Milwaukee needs.....
Posted by: AJR Journal on Jan 22, 2009 7:17 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: AJR Journal on Jan 22, 2009 7:17 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. Cut corporate tax rates to ZERO. Milwaukee is home to at least 6 Fortune 500 firms (Johnson Controls, Manpower, Harley-Davidson, Kohl's, among others). Reducing the tax rate to zero will allow them to grow, make more hires, and to continue to be pillars of the Milwaukee community and economy.
2. Expand free trade. Milwaukee exports highly-crafted goods to the rest of the worl, GE MRI and CAT scanners, P&H and Bucyrus mining equipment, Herley motorcycles, among others. Free trade agreements that lower tariffs and barriers help Milwaukee, its workers, and its businesses.
3. More immigration. Recent immigration to Milwaukee by Mexicans, Colombians, Somalians, Hmong, etc. has rejuvenated inner city neighborhoods, created dozens of new businesses, and slowed the hollowing-out of Milwaukee's central city. Increased immigration stabilizes Milwaukee and allows it to regain a portion of its lost population.
Now there is a stimulus plan!
2. Expand free trade. Milwaukee exports highly-crafted goods to the rest of the worl, GE MRI and CAT scanners, P&H and Bucyrus mining equipment, Herley motorcycles, among others. Free trade agreements that lower tariffs and barriers help Milwaukee, its workers, and its businesses.
3. More immigration. Recent immigration to Milwaukee by Mexicans, Colombians, Somalians, Hmong, etc. has rejuvenated inner city neighborhoods, created dozens of new businesses, and slowed the hollowing-out of Milwaukee's central city. Increased immigration stabilizes Milwaukee and allows it to regain a portion of its lost population.
Now there is a stimulus plan!
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» How much were you paid to write that?
Posted by: and_abottleofrum
» RE: What Milwaukee needs.....
Posted by: praedor
» Unless you build a wall
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» A big myth Economic growth and profitable investment opportunity not corporate tax rates matter most
Posted by: yellow
» What America needs.....
Posted by: MausMasher54
» Milwaukee is a great city
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» aren't you describing the very system that just failed?
Posted by: watching-n-waiting
» A robber barons dream.... LOL
Posted by: Prophit
» Cutting Corporate Tax Rates to Zero won't result in more investment if there is no consumer spending
Posted by: yellow
» I Believe I said Public Investment not AIG's sham nonsense.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Thank you for putting down the koolade
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars on Jan 22, 2009 7:29 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars on Jan 22, 2009 7:29 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You won't get a invite to a Georgetown Cocktail Party but, I'll give you the inside on the BBQ cookouts in outside the beltway in NOVA. If you are going to be "progressive" don't half ass it, you'll only screw things up even more
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Too big to fail
Posted by: praedor on Jan 22, 2009 7:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: praedor on Jan 22, 2009 7:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Too big to fail" simply means "Too big". Period. Anything that is "too big to fail" must be broken up into many "too small to matters". Those that cannot be so broken up now must be fully nationalized and the CEOs and other top execs kicked to the curb without any benefits of severance packages. THEY drove these banks into a deep, deep ditch and then begged for (and got) superwealthy welfare so they could lavish bonuses upon themselves and pay dividends to their shareholders.
PAY IT ALL BACK OR NATIONALIZE. Regardless of this, the top execs of ALL such banks and Wall Street firms need to be required to step down without ANY benefits or severance.
PAY IT ALL BACK OR NATIONALIZE. Regardless of this, the top execs of ALL such banks and Wall Street firms need to be required to step down without ANY benefits or severance.
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» RE: Too big to fail
Posted by: maglindracia
Comments are closed-
The Doctors of Economy Treat (badly) the Symptoms & Ignore the Cause
Posted by: gazooks on Jan 22, 2009 7:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: gazooks on Jan 22, 2009 7:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are all afflicted, the prognosis is fatal and our doctors corrupted with a systemic, lethal hubris.
Just as in medicine, without identifying the root of the illness, you may succeed in curtailing symptoms, may even keep the patient stable and comfortable as organs are progressively destroyed.
In the end, either accurate diagnosis is made and appropriate therapy applied or morphine doses curtail the pain of a foreseeably inevitable demise.
The hundreds of trillions of new dollar credits in both bailout and stimulus required for the indefinite functional future are as morphine to the mortally afflicted economic body. If the drip is suspend, the pain is realized and the patient suffers the agony of the disease.
But what if the patient is actually a terminal junkie and the treatment unwittingly furthers the addiction and deepens the resulting pain of withdrawal?
What if feeding an economic system the increasing doses of fiat dollars simply succeeds in destroying what it purportedly is meant to treat in the end as it inevitably must?
What if the practitioners of leveraged medicine are also the pushers of the manipulated markets, policy wonks of the brazenly self-serving bankers and their owners and their media and their politician/physicians?
There can be NO successful economic reform meaningful to the hundreds of millions of average citizens until our monetary form has as much viability for saving as it does for extending as credit, PERIOD! That is the basic requisite balance for sustainable economy which underwrites political freedom.
How this is achieved is as basic as outlawing the policies designed specifically to manipulate metals markets by the banks. Bank of America is a major surrogate to Fed policy to prevent the unfettered and independent measure of the monetary metals as the single best measure of true inflation.
INFLATION is a monetary event which is responsible for the progressive impoverishment of the working class for a century. Everything else economic is subordinate to it.
Reforms without establishing sound money as basis are as meaningless to a cure as treating a junkie with morphine.
Just as in medicine, without identifying the root of the illness, you may succeed in curtailing symptoms, may even keep the patient stable and comfortable as organs are progressively destroyed.
In the end, either accurate diagnosis is made and appropriate therapy applied or morphine doses curtail the pain of a foreseeably inevitable demise.
The hundreds of trillions of new dollar credits in both bailout and stimulus required for the indefinite functional future are as morphine to the mortally afflicted economic body. If the drip is suspend, the pain is realized and the patient suffers the agony of the disease.
But what if the patient is actually a terminal junkie and the treatment unwittingly furthers the addiction and deepens the resulting pain of withdrawal?
What if feeding an economic system the increasing doses of fiat dollars simply succeeds in destroying what it purportedly is meant to treat in the end as it inevitably must?
What if the practitioners of leveraged medicine are also the pushers of the manipulated markets, policy wonks of the brazenly self-serving bankers and their owners and their media and their politician/physicians?
There can be NO successful economic reform meaningful to the hundreds of millions of average citizens until our monetary form has as much viability for saving as it does for extending as credit, PERIOD! That is the basic requisite balance for sustainable economy which underwrites political freedom.
How this is achieved is as basic as outlawing the policies designed specifically to manipulate metals markets by the banks. Bank of America is a major surrogate to Fed policy to prevent the unfettered and independent measure of the monetary metals as the single best measure of true inflation.
INFLATION is a monetary event which is responsible for the progressive impoverishment of the working class for a century. Everything else economic is subordinate to it.
Reforms without establishing sound money as basis are as meaningless to a cure as treating a junkie with morphine.
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» Reforms without establishing sound money...
Posted by: chance garden
» There is a bill in to do away with the Federal Reserve....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: There is a bill in to do away with the Federal Reserve....
Posted by: gazooks
» The Fed and Tax relief is NOT the issue. America is very lightly taxed and still there is no Growth!
Posted by: yellow
» Enough with the Usual BS already. I wish the whole lotta ya would get a clue already!!
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Enough with the Usual BS already
Posted by: chance garden
» But none of this is true and none of it is relevant.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Which part of "The Money is Gone" don't you understand?
Posted by: PaulK on Jan 22, 2009 8:22 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: PaulK on Jan 22, 2009 8:22 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The part about the bridge to nowhere earmark, especially if it's my district's earmark.
The part about cutting back on liquor purchases.
The part about our property values not rising 10% per year, every year until infinity.
The part about not importing an infinite amount of cheap plastic junk from China, every year, forever. They're poor and we're rich, right, so they work and we have a tee time to catch.
What's a foreclosure anyway? Talk to my accountant.
The part about cutting back on liquor purchases.
The part about our property values not rising 10% per year, every year until infinity.
The part about not importing an infinite amount of cheap plastic junk from China, every year, forever. They're poor and we're rich, right, so they work and we have a tee time to catch.
What's a foreclosure anyway? Talk to my accountant.
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Comments are closed-
To Quote Springsteen...
Posted by: east bay on Jan 22, 2009 8:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: east bay on Jan 22, 2009 8:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Now main streets whitewashed windows and vacant stores
Seems like there aint nobody wants to come down here no more
Theyre closing down the textile mill across the railroad tracks
Foreman says these jobs are going boys and they aint coming back to
Your hometown, your hometown, your hometown, your hometown" - Bruce spingsteen, 1984
Seems like there aint nobody wants to come down here no more
Theyre closing down the textile mill across the railroad tracks
Foreman says these jobs are going boys and they aint coming back to
Your hometown, your hometown, your hometown, your hometown" - Bruce spingsteen, 1984
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» To Quote Springsteen... sounds like the Carolinas in the late 1990's
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
Comments are closed-
The Stimulus went directly to China
Posted by: Shankari46 on Jan 22, 2009 8:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Shankari46 on Jan 22, 2009 8:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a no brainer. All ya'll go buy something and they did, but it was at Walmart. Walmart only has Chinese goods and low paid employees who have to get on Welfare to get healthcare benefits. The stimulus went to one billionaire and China. Real smart. Obama has to do something else. He has to cut the budget deeply. How? CUT THE MILITARY down to the size of China's military. What? Yeah. In other words stop focusing all our resources on the military.
Next he will have to put up trade barriers to China. How in heaven's name will he do that when we owe so much to China? Cut the military and pay China off. Then put the barriers up.
Next he will have to put up trade barriers to China. How in heaven's name will he do that when we owe so much to China? Cut the military and pay China off. Then put the barriers up.
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» RE: The Stimulus went directly to China
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield
» Bad news for ya... China is Goldman Sachs biggest client..
Posted by: Prophit
» Send a 3 trillion bill 2 China 4 technology they stole!
Posted by: solstice
Comments are closed-
FDR Gave Out Huge Stimulus Packages
Posted by: Shankari46 on Jan 22, 2009 9:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Shankari46 on Jan 22, 2009 9:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It doesn't work now, because we don't have the same economy. We do need to have a bank holiday and nationalize some of these guys like FDR did, but the handing money out won't work, because WE DON'T have a manufacturing base. That was destroyed by Reagan. All of our goods are manufactured overseas, so when you give people money to spend it goes directly overseas not to poor working class Americans.
Now you need a trade barrier against China or in other words you need to stop Chinese goods from coming in, but that's tricky since we owe so much to China.
Now you need a trade barrier against China or in other words you need to stop Chinese goods from coming in, but that's tricky since we owe so much to China.
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» RE: FDR Gave Out Huge Stimulus Packages
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield
» Very good comment...well thought out,..thankyou!
Posted by: donl51
Comments are closed-
The end of money as God?
Posted by: sirios on Jan 22, 2009 9:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: sirios on Jan 22, 2009 9:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Financial ruin is not a bad thing as long as it uncovers and exposes life[compassion,love generosity gratitude towards the planet and natural world,etc.] and dissolves greed, addiction to power, cruelty,aggression and destruction of the environment.
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» That would be lovely.
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield
» RE: Thanx sirios,
Posted by: watching-n-waiting
» The end of the armed robbery of the american public.
Posted by: rafaeltoral
Comments are closed-
I like it
Posted by: willymack on Jan 22, 2009 9:16 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: willymack on Jan 22, 2009 9:16 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Today is one of the more lively discussions, with opinions on just about every side. In my mind, this sharply defines our economic woes, and helps to point to a solution. This may sound silly, but maybe economic collapse won't be so bad for us (in the long run) as we think. The crooks with all the money will lose the most and be revealed for what and who they are, greedy rat-bastard psychopaths, and friends to NO ONE, except their own kind. Maybe-just maybe-a more HUMANE economic order will emerge. One thing for certain is, it can't go on as before; it'll just fall apart again.
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Preparing For Economic Armageddon - Are Hens Like Cats?
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Jan 22, 2009 9:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Jan 22, 2009 9:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the shit really hits the fan, and banks stop issuing money - as happenned in Russia 10 years ago, it may become difficult to buy food. I thought that getting some hens might provide a partial solution cos they lay eggs - and you can even eat them. Presumably they don't need a great deal of looking after and potentially hen shit might make decent fertilizer for growing potatoes.
Then I realised a major problem. We have absolutely loads of foxes. You hardly ever see a fox in the countryside - they've all moved into town - and if you start shooting them (not that I have a gun) then the soppy neighbours will go all emotional - and you'll probably end up getting arrested by the Gestapo.
However there must be solutions to all these problems
This website has a few ideas
What I don't quite understand is how truly free range chickens survive. Perhaps they only do survive in areas where there aren't any foxes. Are hens like cats and can find their own way home unaided?
I used to think that doomster stories of complete and utter financial collapse were the musings of depressed paranoid schizophrenics who regular went off to hide in a cave when events like the Year 2000 came around.
I even bought a cheap book on the subject a few years ago, and after laughing my way through more than half of it I thought I may have binned it - but no I've just found it again
"Wake Up!" by Jim Mellon & Al Chalabi
Oh shit it's all coming true
Tony
Then I realised a major problem. We have absolutely loads of foxes. You hardly ever see a fox in the countryside - they've all moved into town - and if you start shooting them (not that I have a gun) then the soppy neighbours will go all emotional - and you'll probably end up getting arrested by the Gestapo.
However there must be solutions to all these problems
This website has a few ideas
What I don't quite understand is how truly free range chickens survive. Perhaps they only do survive in areas where there aren't any foxes. Are hens like cats and can find their own way home unaided?
I used to think that doomster stories of complete and utter financial collapse were the musings of depressed paranoid schizophrenics who regular went off to hide in a cave when events like the Year 2000 came around.
I even bought a cheap book on the subject a few years ago, and after laughing my way through more than half of it I thought I may have binned it - but no I've just found it again
"Wake Up!" by Jim Mellon & Al Chalabi
Oh shit it's all coming true
Tony
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Oh dear - we are so ignorant of our own disasters...
Posted by: gunboat diplomat on Jan 22, 2009 9:24 AM
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Posted by: gunboat diplomat on Jan 22, 2009 9:24 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First, the gap between real wealth and financial wealth has grown and grown ever since 1970 or so. Not only that, so has the gap between CEO pay and shareholder dividends on one hand, and worker pay on the other. www.davidkorten.org
The decrease in worker pay has been increased via NAFTA and similar trade agreements, which was really a union-busting and environmental movement-busting tactic, aimed at moving manufacturing to countries with brutal dictatorships that had no qualms about murdering environmental or labor activists - Indonesia, China, Burma, etc.
This mirrors and ever-increasing gap in the U.S. between real wealth (manufactured goods, agricultural produce, and useful services) and financial wealth (numbers on a ledger).
For example, the pension funds are not real wealth - they consist of numbers on paper, backed up by an ever-decreasing amount of real wealth.
It's funny... China got all our manufacturing technology for free, and now they have their own R&D programs - while we rely on them. At the end of WWII, Russians packed up all the German factories and moved them back home - we just gave ours away to the Chinese! They're not so bad - but they could use some deomcratic reforms, I think. The Chinese are not idealists, they are pragmatists - but their unregulated communist system allows massive corruption to flourish, as usual in all totalitarian states, regardless of their particular brand of ideology.
China is also the biggest single foreign holder of U.S. Treasury securities - almost $700 billion worth. What's the total debt now, some $10 trillion? That's not even counting personal debt, credit cards, student loans, home loans, car loans - we have ridden the debt train to the end of the line, and now we are in the Waste Land.
Didn't you ever see Goodfellas? What does the mob do when they take over the restaurant? Run up massive bills, move orders in one door and out the other, sell the goods to someone else while keeping them on the books, and when the game is up, the burn the whole place down and collect the insurance. The danger there is that you might end up burning down a whole city block - or even the entire city.
That's what's happened to our financial system - and some people have done quite well for themselves, you can count on that - but the greed got out of hand, backfired and blew up in their faces - and now their bleeding out, with no real medical aid in sight - just bandaids that won't fix a thing.
In reality, we'd have to drop the entire fossil fuel program, invest billions in renewable energy, and completely change the structure of corporations and their relation to shareholders and employees - but that's definitely NOT on the table.
Empire falls. Good luck, everyone. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go work on my Mandarin Chinese.
The decrease in worker pay has been increased via NAFTA and similar trade agreements, which was really a union-busting and environmental movement-busting tactic, aimed at moving manufacturing to countries with brutal dictatorships that had no qualms about murdering environmental or labor activists - Indonesia, China, Burma, etc.
This mirrors and ever-increasing gap in the U.S. between real wealth (manufactured goods, agricultural produce, and useful services) and financial wealth (numbers on a ledger).
For example, the pension funds are not real wealth - they consist of numbers on paper, backed up by an ever-decreasing amount of real wealth.
It's funny... China got all our manufacturing technology for free, and now they have their own R&D programs - while we rely on them. At the end of WWII, Russians packed up all the German factories and moved them back home - we just gave ours away to the Chinese! They're not so bad - but they could use some deomcratic reforms, I think. The Chinese are not idealists, they are pragmatists - but their unregulated communist system allows massive corruption to flourish, as usual in all totalitarian states, regardless of their particular brand of ideology.
China is also the biggest single foreign holder of U.S. Treasury securities - almost $700 billion worth. What's the total debt now, some $10 trillion? That's not even counting personal debt, credit cards, student loans, home loans, car loans - we have ridden the debt train to the end of the line, and now we are in the Waste Land.
Didn't you ever see Goodfellas? What does the mob do when they take over the restaurant? Run up massive bills, move orders in one door and out the other, sell the goods to someone else while keeping them on the books, and when the game is up, the burn the whole place down and collect the insurance. The danger there is that you might end up burning down a whole city block - or even the entire city.
That's what's happened to our financial system - and some people have done quite well for themselves, you can count on that - but the greed got out of hand, backfired and blew up in their faces - and now their bleeding out, with no real medical aid in sight - just bandaids that won't fix a thing.
In reality, we'd have to drop the entire fossil fuel program, invest billions in renewable energy, and completely change the structure of corporations and their relation to shareholders and employees - but that's definitely NOT on the table.
Empire falls. Good luck, everyone. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go work on my Mandarin Chinese.
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» their unregulated communist system allows massive corruption
Posted by: chance garden
» how stupid are we we gave our technology away!
Posted by: solstice
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Deficit Spending is the Only Way to Stimulate Economic Recovery. FDR and Reagan both agree on this!!
Posted by: yellow on Jan 22, 2009 9:28 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: yellow on Jan 22, 2009 9:28 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One reason that the US Federal Government has consistently run deficits since 1970 for all but four years (1998-2001) adding to a total national debt that currently stands at over $10 trillion is the chronic stagnation of the US economy. Financialization in general, not the specific monetary policies of the Fed, has led the US economy to the current crisis.
As Jane d'Arista, an economist with the Financial Markets Center, a post-Keynesian think tank analyzing global financial policy, has stated, "...the advent of monetary ease after 2001 introduced a new dynamic: the generation of liquidity through the spill over effects of leveraged cross border investment flows." What Ms. d'Arista is saying is not just that successive policy interest rate cuts at the Fed by Greenspan, in an endeavor to save the housing and stock market bubbles and hence leveraged consumer spending to support the economy, sustained ultimately damaging bubbles, but that even in 2004 and 2005, when corporate and consumer borrowing reached massive levels, the Fed's attempts to raise the policy short term interest rates, had no effect on borrowing and rising debt levels.
In Fact, as d'Arista points out, such rate increases actually increased financial investment inflows into US bond and equities markets through a developing "carry trade" industry in which institutional investors borrowed in short term, low interest capital markets like those in Japan and invested in higher yield, long term Dollar denominated financial assets like US stocks and bonds.
Not only did this create excess liquidity in the US allowing more borrowing at cheaper long term rates (mortgage rates dropped to below 5% for a time allowing home equity cashouts to finance much consumer borrowing) but allowed sufficient borrowing for US speculators to invest in higher risk, higher yield emerging market sovereign debt.
Third world countries "sterilized" their new dollar reserves by purchasing US bonds in order to avoid domestic currency appreciation and a decline in exports. As these dollars flowed back to US financial markets they accumulated in US financial markets and commercial bank reserves causing a downward pressure on long term US interest rates making Fed short term interest rate hikes ineffective. They eventually flowed back out again to global financial markets and ultimately back to the US again in a pro-cyclical fashion making counter-cyclical Fed monetary policies irrelevant.
The "round robin" nature of these cross border capital flows, as d'Arista calls it, created a financialization pattern that was hard to break. It also created and expanded financial and housing bubbles and encouraged global financial speculation ultimately leading to the current economic crisis.
What is now needed is to shrink the financial economy. It is too large. It is important to use capital controls to stop short term speculative flows as well as to steeply tax idle wealth in order to use the money for public investment and full employment. Growing inequality and the concentration of wealth and income since the early 1980s allowed the contemporary financialization trend which ultimately led to the current crisis. It was not a consequence of specific Fed monetary policies. Progressive taxation and public investment is the answer. Monetary restraint and deficit reduction at this time will only cause deflation and depression.
As Jane d'Arista, an economist with the Financial Markets Center, a post-Keynesian think tank analyzing global financial policy, has stated, "...the advent of monetary ease after 2001 introduced a new dynamic: the generation of liquidity through the spill over effects of leveraged cross border investment flows." What Ms. d'Arista is saying is not just that successive policy interest rate cuts at the Fed by Greenspan, in an endeavor to save the housing and stock market bubbles and hence leveraged consumer spending to support the economy, sustained ultimately damaging bubbles, but that even in 2004 and 2005, when corporate and consumer borrowing reached massive levels, the Fed's attempts to raise the policy short term interest rates, had no effect on borrowing and rising debt levels.
In Fact, as d'Arista points out, such rate increases actually increased financial investment inflows into US bond and equities markets through a developing "carry trade" industry in which institutional investors borrowed in short term, low interest capital markets like those in Japan and invested in higher yield, long term Dollar denominated financial assets like US stocks and bonds.
Not only did this create excess liquidity in the US allowing more borrowing at cheaper long term rates (mortgage rates dropped to below 5% for a time allowing home equity cashouts to finance much consumer borrowing) but allowed sufficient borrowing for US speculators to invest in higher risk, higher yield emerging market sovereign debt.
Third world countries "sterilized" their new dollar reserves by purchasing US bonds in order to avoid domestic currency appreciation and a decline in exports. As these dollars flowed back to US financial markets they accumulated in US financial markets and commercial bank reserves causing a downward pressure on long term US interest rates making Fed short term interest rate hikes ineffective. They eventually flowed back out again to global financial markets and ultimately back to the US again in a pro-cyclical fashion making counter-cyclical Fed monetary policies irrelevant.
The "round robin" nature of these cross border capital flows, as d'Arista calls it, created a financialization pattern that was hard to break. It also created and expanded financial and housing bubbles and encouraged global financial speculation ultimately leading to the current economic crisis.
What is now needed is to shrink the financial economy. It is too large. It is important to use capital controls to stop short term speculative flows as well as to steeply tax idle wealth in order to use the money for public investment and full employment. Growing inequality and the concentration of wealth and income since the early 1980s allowed the contemporary financialization trend which ultimately led to the current crisis. It was not a consequence of specific Fed monetary policies. Progressive taxation and public investment is the answer. Monetary restraint and deficit reduction at this time will only cause deflation and depression.
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» Yup - and capital flow liberalization rules written into NAFTA, CAFTA, etc. made it all possible
Posted by: gunboat diplomat
» So how is this "critique" in conflict with what I said?
Posted by: yellow
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Karl Denniger's Cramdown - Might seem Ruthless - But It May Provide a Solution That will Work
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Jan 22, 2009 9:42 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Jan 22, 2009 9:42 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
link
There is exactly one way to resolve this problem - the banks must be "crammed down" through forcible reorganization, and we must stop bailing them out and handing them money.
We cannot recapitalize them through taxpayer donations, for through that path we only delay the inevitable. We do not have the ability to "manufacture" or "borrow" the three to five trillion dollars it would take to cover those losses - a full fifty percent increase in our federal debt, on which we would pay hundreds of billions of dollars a year - forever - being a permanent drag on GDP. Such a path will only lead to more insolvency as the crimp on GDP will inevitably lead to more job losses, more credit losses and more malaise, ultimately resulting in the very collapse that the proponents of this path claim to be trying to avoid.
The math demands that we take bold action. We must force a cramdown of debt to equity, which will wipe out all of the existing shareholders, including those holding preferreds while converting the bondholders into new equity holders, pushing down the capital structure however far is necessary in order to return the firm to solvency.
Many people would argue this is "illegal." It is not. These firms are already bankrupt if anyone bothers to perform a simple dispassionate balance sheet analysis. Their common and preferred stock is worthless. They continue to trade only on the premise that our government would come in and bail them out with an endless supply of taxpayer dollars, mortgaging our nation and its future in order to keep these bankers and their investors from suffering their just desserts as a consequence of their voluntary, irrational and patently unsound lending decisions.
None of these investors put their money in with their eyes wide shut - or if they did, they knew better. Nobody was forced to buy a bank stock or bond. Everyone did so expecting a return, and all took a risk. That risk has now become realized - it has gone from hypothetical to actual.
President Obama needs direct Treasury and The Fed to immediately go institution-by-institution, write down the assets to "death's door" levels, determine how far down the capital structure needs to be crammed to restore that institution to a strong capital position with double the Tier Capital ratio required by law, and then forcibly reorganize the debt into equity.
The bank involved reopens the next morning on the stock exchange with its new stockholders. The old stockholders are extinguished - they get nothing. The liabilities are greatly reduced, the capital structure reorganized, the bank has a strong capital position and is now financially sound.
Zero taxpayer dollars are involved. The losses are borne by those who intentionally invested in an asset that might (and now did) lose value, including a possible loss of all value.
Before we cry a river for these people we must realize that while a $2 trillion loss would be bad for those who bear it, the market has already lost some $10 trillion in value!
For an additional 20% in losses, all taken by those who decided to invest in these institutions, we can resolve the failed banks.
And make no mistake President Obama and readers of The Ticker - these banks have already failed. They trade on a public exchange today, and have doors open, only because of a fraud perpetrated upon the public by the previous Administration - a fraud we have all allowed to take place and now threaten to perpetuate.
Don't make that mistake - it didn't work under President Bush and Secretary Paulson because mathematically it can't work. It won't work in an Obama administration either because the math is never, ever wrong.
There is exactly one way to resolve this problem - the banks must be "crammed down" through forcible reorganization, and we must stop bailing them out and handing them money.
We cannot recapitalize them through taxpayer donations, for through that path we only delay the inevitable. We do not have the ability to "manufacture" or "borrow" the three to five trillion dollars it would take to cover those losses - a full fifty percent increase in our federal debt, on which we would pay hundreds of billions of dollars a year - forever - being a permanent drag on GDP. Such a path will only lead to more insolvency as the crimp on GDP will inevitably lead to more job losses, more credit losses and more malaise, ultimately resulting in the very collapse that the proponents of this path claim to be trying to avoid.
The math demands that we take bold action. We must force a cramdown of debt to equity, which will wipe out all of the existing shareholders, including those holding preferreds while converting the bondholders into new equity holders, pushing down the capital structure however far is necessary in order to return the firm to solvency.
Many people would argue this is "illegal." It is not. These firms are already bankrupt if anyone bothers to perform a simple dispassionate balance sheet analysis. Their common and preferred stock is worthless. They continue to trade only on the premise that our government would come in and bail them out with an endless supply of taxpayer dollars, mortgaging our nation and its future in order to keep these bankers and their investors from suffering their just desserts as a consequence of their voluntary, irrational and patently unsound lending decisions.
None of these investors put their money in with their eyes wide shut - or if they did, they knew better. Nobody was forced to buy a bank stock or bond. Everyone did so expecting a return, and all took a risk. That risk has now become realized - it has gone from hypothetical to actual.
President Obama needs direct Treasury and The Fed to immediately go institution-by-institution, write down the assets to "death's door" levels, determine how far down the capital structure needs to be crammed to restore that institution to a strong capital position with double the Tier Capital ratio required by law, and then forcibly reorganize the debt into equity.
The bank involved reopens the next morning on the stock exchange with its new stockholders. The old stockholders are extinguished - they get nothing. The liabilities are greatly reduced, the capital structure reorganized, the bank has a strong capital position and is now financially sound.
Zero taxpayer dollars are involved. The losses are borne by those who intentionally invested in an asset that might (and now did) lose value, including a possible loss of all value.
Before we cry a river for these people we must realize that while a $2 trillion loss would be bad for those who bear it, the market has already lost some $10 trillion in value!
For an additional 20% in losses, all taken by those who decided to invest in these institutions, we can resolve the failed banks.
And make no mistake President Obama and readers of The Ticker - these banks have already failed. They trade on a public exchange today, and have doors open, only because of a fraud perpetrated upon the public by the previous Administration - a fraud we have all allowed to take place and now threaten to perpetuate.
Don't make that mistake - it didn't work under President Bush and Secretary Paulson because mathematically it can't work. It won't work in an Obama administration either because the math is never, ever wrong.
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» RE: Karl Denniger's Cramdown - Might seem Ruthless - But It May Provide a Solution That will Work
Posted by: a2plusb2equalc2
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Reverting to the historical norm
Posted by: billwald on Jan 22, 2009 10:23 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: billwald on Jan 22, 2009 10:23 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Stupid Americans think that a population with a 60% middle class with an ever increasing standard of living is normal. Sorry, it is a freak post WW2 phenomenon. We are reverting to the world historical norm with 5% stinking rich, 15% or so middle class (doctors, lawyers, small business owners), and the rest working poor. Prior to WW1 half of all Americans lived in poverty. Get used to it.
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» Reverting to colonialism and rule by robber barons, you mean.
Posted by: gunboat diplomat
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Declare an "Emergency" and invoke NSPD-51...
Posted by: TJColatrella on Jan 22, 2009 1:05 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: TJColatrella on Jan 22, 2009 1:05 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then Mr. President you can unilaterally Nationalize all these Major Banks and start issuing low interest loans to stimulate the economy...this for the sake of "continuity" within our banking institutions..and economy..
You can then also under NSPD-51 and HSPD-20 Nationalize due to the "Emergency" all major energy and also our Health Care System going to a single payer system...
This will create not just a solution to our economic emergency but also an Economic Boom like we haven't seen in decades and also increase the value of the American dollar...!
It's the way to go declare an Emergency and invoke NSPD-51 this is an Emergency isn't it well that's why Bush signed NSPD-51 and HSPD-20 so we can Nationalize and direct and control our economy and all government..!
Go for it Mr. President or at least mention you are considering this seriously and watch them fold like broken lawn chairs..!
You can then also under NSPD-51 and HSPD-20 Nationalize due to the "Emergency" all major energy and also our Health Care System going to a single payer system...
This will create not just a solution to our economic emergency but also an Economic Boom like we haven't seen in decades and also increase the value of the American dollar...!
It's the way to go declare an Emergency and invoke NSPD-51 this is an Emergency isn't it well that's why Bush signed NSPD-51 and HSPD-20 so we can Nationalize and direct and control our economy and all government..!
Go for it Mr. President or at least mention you are considering this seriously and watch them fold like broken lawn chairs..!
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» RE: Declare an "Emergency" and invoke NSPD-51...
Posted by: satwa.gunam
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Under pinnings of the plan
Posted by: Dixie Dawg on Jan 22, 2009 1:11 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Dixie Dawg on Jan 22, 2009 1:11 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem with the plan will be the people President Obama wants in place to implement the plan. Tim Geithner is the leading indicator of where President Obama's ideals are headed. With a Geithner, "the plan" is in jeopardy from the get go.
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good discussions
Posted by: cbishopp on Jan 22, 2009 1:31 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: cbishopp on Jan 22, 2009 1:31 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's great to see so many people speaking their mind and facing the facts. It is about time we all consider how our money is created and who profits from our efforts and who really pays the taxes.
Obama has a huge task ahead of him and to be honest few of us believe he can do much about the economy at this point.
We have been robbed. The United States has been systematically bled dry through war, theft, fear, and lies for many years and now we turn to one man to fix it all at the 11th hour. It's a daunting responsibility.
But the fact remains that Obama must deal with issues of terrorism and the ongoing military campaigns whose conditions have worsened due to poor planning and and a disturbing lack of diplomacy. He must deal with a credit squeeze that will make the Depression of the 30's look not so great. He must deal with a sour world opinion of the US and the quickly failing hegemony of the dollar.
He will be held accountable while Bush slinks off to Dallas and fades into obscurity. Can we even remember all the things we opposed over the last eight years? Will Obama address the constitutionality of the Patriot Act, the corporate malfeasance in Iraq as well as the United States, the condition and effectiveness of FEMA, the continuing problems in New Orleans, or the trillions of dollars lost or stolen over the last two terms??
He is only the President though, so it is my belief that he will comply with the Federal Reserve, he will support Israel, he will continue fighting in Afghanistan and on a smaller level in Iraq, he will maintain a strong stance against Iran, and he will not abandon the US Embassy in Iraq.
What he HAS done as we have seen throughout the campaign is that he and his team have created a brand. The Obama Brand is an asset to anyone who can attach to it, and he has made it very easy for anyone to use his message at all levels of the economy. Any item of clothing his kids or Michelle dons is specifically chosen and often results in websites (like J. Crew) crashing, unable to sustain the incoming orders. Companies that make Obama t-shirts, trinkets, posters and buttons are having a landmark year, larger companies like Starbucks and Pepsi have ads that are almost indistinguishable from campaign slogans.
Obama is the only thing moving money right now and he is attempting to shift the great Republican media machine to promote his administrations message of HOPE.
Make no mistake, Obama was chosen to lead us through a depression, not to fix it.
Obama has a huge task ahead of him and to be honest few of us believe he can do much about the economy at this point.
We have been robbed. The United States has been systematically bled dry through war, theft, fear, and lies for many years and now we turn to one man to fix it all at the 11th hour. It's a daunting responsibility.
But the fact remains that Obama must deal with issues of terrorism and the ongoing military campaigns whose conditions have worsened due to poor planning and and a disturbing lack of diplomacy. He must deal with a credit squeeze that will make the Depression of the 30's look not so great. He must deal with a sour world opinion of the US and the quickly failing hegemony of the dollar.
He will be held accountable while Bush slinks off to Dallas and fades into obscurity. Can we even remember all the things we opposed over the last eight years? Will Obama address the constitutionality of the Patriot Act, the corporate malfeasance in Iraq as well as the United States, the condition and effectiveness of FEMA, the continuing problems in New Orleans, or the trillions of dollars lost or stolen over the last two terms??
He is only the President though, so it is my belief that he will comply with the Federal Reserve, he will support Israel, he will continue fighting in Afghanistan and on a smaller level in Iraq, he will maintain a strong stance against Iran, and he will not abandon the US Embassy in Iraq.
What he HAS done as we have seen throughout the campaign is that he and his team have created a brand. The Obama Brand is an asset to anyone who can attach to it, and he has made it very easy for anyone to use his message at all levels of the economy. Any item of clothing his kids or Michelle dons is specifically chosen and often results in websites (like J. Crew) crashing, unable to sustain the incoming orders. Companies that make Obama t-shirts, trinkets, posters and buttons are having a landmark year, larger companies like Starbucks and Pepsi have ads that are almost indistinguishable from campaign slogans.
Obama is the only thing moving money right now and he is attempting to shift the great Republican media machine to promote his administrations message of HOPE.
Make no mistake, Obama was chosen to lead us through a depression, not to fix it.
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» bRANd oBAMa
Posted by: chance garden
» RE: bRANd nADEr?
Posted by: Beck
» RE: bRANd nADEr?
Posted by: chance garden
Comments are closed-
YAAYA
Posted by: Cialo on Jan 22, 2009 1:50 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Cialo on Jan 22, 2009 1:50 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Guess what, WE'RE FUCKED!
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You Bail Them Out, We Opt Out.
Posted by: MC Shalom on Jan 22, 2009 2:23 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: MC Shalom on Jan 22, 2009 2:23 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You Bail Them Out, We Opt Out.
Dear [May Be Too Much to my Taste, OK!] Expensive Chairman Ben S. Bernanke,
All of Our Economic Problems Find They Root in the Existence of Credit.
Out of the $5,000,000,000,000 bail out money for the banks, that is $1,000 for every inhabitant of this planet, what is it exactly that WE, The People, got?
If my bank doesn't pay back its credits, how come I must pay it back mines?
If my bank gets 0% Loans, how come I don't?
At the same time, everyday, some of us are losing our home or even our jobs.
Credit discriminates against people of lower economic classes, as such it is unconstitutional, isn't it? It is an supra national stealth weapon of class struggle.
Credit is a predatory practice. When the predator finishes up the preys he starves to death. What did you expect?
Where are you exactly in that food chain?
Credit Stands Up Against Both of All the Principles of Equal Opportunity and Free Market.
Credit is a Stealth Weapon of Mass Destruction.
Credit is Mathematically Inept, Morally Unacceptable.
They Bail Them Out, We Opt Out
Opting Out Is Both Free and Completely Anonymous.
The Solution: The Credit Free, Free Market Economy.
Is Both Dynamic on the Short Run & Stable on the Long Run, The Only Available Short Run Solution.
I Am, Hence, Leading an Exit Out of Credit:
Let me outline for you my proposed strategy:
✔ Preserve Your Belongings.
✔ The Property Title: Opt Out of Credit.
✔ The Credit Free Money: The Dinar-Shekel AKA The DaSh, Symbol: - .
✔ Asset Transfer: The Right Grant Operation.
✔ A Specific Application of Employment, Interest and Money.
[A Tract Intended For my Fellows Economists].
If Risk Free Interest Rates Are at 0.00% Doesn't That Mean That Credit is Worthless?
Since credit based currencies are managed by setting interest rates, on which all control has been lost, are they managed anymore?
We Need, Hence, Cancel All Interest Bearing Debt and Abolish Interest Bearing Credit.
In This Age of Turbulence The People Wants an Exit Out of Credit: An Adventure in a New World Economic Order.
The other option would be to wait till most of the productive assets of the economy get physically destroyed either by war or by rust.
It will be either awfully deadly or dramatically long.
A price none of us can afford to pay.
“The current crisis can be overcome only by developing a sense of common purpose. The alternative to a new international order is chaos.”
- Henry A. Kissinger
You Bail Them Out, Let's Opt Out!
Check Out How Many of Us Are Already on Their Way to Opt Out of Credit.
Let me provide you with a link to my press release for my open letter to you:
Chairman Ben S. Bernanke, Quantitative [Ooops! I Meant Credit] Easing Can't Work!
I am, Mr Chairman, Yours Sincerely [Do I have really the choice?],
Shalom P. Hamou AKA 'MC-Shalom'
Chief Economist - Master Conductor
1 7 7 6 - Annuit Cœptis
Tel: +972 54 441-7640
Dear [May Be Too Much to my Taste, OK!] Expensive Chairman Ben S. Bernanke,
All of Our Economic Problems Find They Root in the Existence of Credit.
Out of the $5,000,000,000,000 bail out money for the banks, that is $1,000 for every inhabitant of this planet, what is it exactly that WE, The People, got?
If my bank doesn't pay back its credits, how come I must pay it back mines?
If my bank gets 0% Loans, how come I don't?
At the same time, everyday, some of us are losing our home or even our jobs.
Credit discriminates against people of lower economic classes, as such it is unconstitutional, isn't it? It is an supra national stealth weapon of class struggle.
Credit is a predatory practice. When the predator finishes up the preys he starves to death. What did you expect?
Where are you exactly in that food chain?
Credit Stands Up Against Both of All the Principles of Equal Opportunity and Free Market.
Credit is a Stealth Weapon of Mass Destruction.
Credit is Mathematically Inept, Morally Unacceptable.
They Bail Them Out, We Opt Out
Opting Out Is Both Free and Completely Anonymous.
The Solution: The Credit Free, Free Market Economy.
Is Both Dynamic on the Short Run & Stable on the Long Run, The Only Available Short Run Solution.
I Am, Hence, Leading an Exit Out of Credit:
Let me outline for you my proposed strategy:
✔ Preserve Your Belongings.
✔ The Property Title: Opt Out of Credit.
✔ The Credit Free Money: The Dinar-Shekel AKA The DaSh, Symbol: - .
✔ Asset Transfer: The Right Grant Operation.
✔ A Specific Application of Employment, Interest and Money.
[A Tract Intended For my Fellows Economists].
If Risk Free Interest Rates Are at 0.00% Doesn't That Mean That Credit is Worthless?
Since credit based currencies are managed by setting interest rates, on which all control has been lost, are they managed anymore?
We Need, Hence, Cancel All Interest Bearing Debt and Abolish Interest Bearing Credit.
In This Age of Turbulence The People Wants an Exit Out of Credit: An Adventure in a New World Economic Order.
The other option would be to wait till most of the productive assets of the economy get physically destroyed either by war or by rust.
It will be either awfully deadly or dramatically long.
A price none of us can afford to pay.
“The current crisis can be overcome only by developing a sense of common purpose. The alternative to a new international order is chaos.”
- Henry A. Kissinger
You Bail Them Out, Let's Opt Out!
Check Out How Many of Us Are Already on Their Way to Opt Out of Credit.
Let me provide you with a link to my press release for my open letter to you:
Chairman Ben S. Bernanke, Quantitative [Ooops! I Meant Credit] Easing Can't Work!
I am, Mr Chairman, Yours Sincerely [Do I have really the choice?],
Shalom P. Hamou AKA 'MC-Shalom'
Chief Economist - Master Conductor
1 7 7 6 - Annuit Cœptis
Tel: +972 54 441-7640
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A Different Kind of Bailout
Posted by: bandz on Jan 22, 2009 2:39 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: bandz on Jan 22, 2009 2:39 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This proposal may sound fanciful, but I present it as a serious matter. Instead of bailing out the rich, the banks and big corporations -- that's like trying to bail out the Titanic -- we should be bailing out the ordinary folks who are in danger of drowning. Here's my idea:
The federal government -- instead of giving billions of $ to the rich, the corporations and the big financial institutions -- give $1 million, tax free, to every registered voter with an income UNDER $100 thousand per year. Do the math to see how much that would amount to. Much less than the current "bail out the wealthy" plans.
What would happen? Most of that money would be spent -- on paying off mortgages, medical bills, environmentally-friendly cars, vacations, consumer goods, etc., etc.-- and the great majority would be spent here in the U.S!! Wouldn't that give a needed boost to our economy???
Oh, yes. that would need to be combined with instituting a universal, comprehensive, national, single-payer, not-for-profit healthcare system [also a money-saving move], and a massive employment program to salvage the country's infrastructure. How about new CCC and/or WPA programs? A much expanded homeland Peace Corps? Have the government employ the unemployed instead of handing out billions of $$ to the rich.
I think it would work. Worth a try??
The federal government -- instead of giving billions of $ to the rich, the corporations and the big financial institutions -- give $1 million, tax free, to every registered voter with an income UNDER $100 thousand per year. Do the math to see how much that would amount to. Much less than the current "bail out the wealthy" plans.
What would happen? Most of that money would be spent -- on paying off mortgages, medical bills, environmentally-friendly cars, vacations, consumer goods, etc., etc.-- and the great majority would be spent here in the U.S!! Wouldn't that give a needed boost to our economy???
Oh, yes. that would need to be combined with instituting a universal, comprehensive, national, single-payer, not-for-profit healthcare system [also a money-saving move], and a massive employment program to salvage the country's infrastructure. How about new CCC and/or WPA programs? A much expanded homeland Peace Corps? Have the government employ the unemployed instead of handing out billions of $$ to the rich.
I think it would work. Worth a try??
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» RE: A Different Kind of Bailout
Posted by: kattfish
» RE: A Different Kind of Bailout
Posted by: maglindracia
Comments are closed-
RED ALERT !! RED ALERT !! KISSY FACE OBAMA JUST GAVE BIG OIL A MAJOR MAJOR "VICTORY" !!!
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield on Jan 22, 2009 3:07 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield on Jan 22, 2009 3:07 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Offshore drilling plan to go ahead: Interior Dept
Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:29pm EST
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A proposal issued in the final days of the Bush administration to expand offshore drilling in previously banned areas will move forward under the administration of U.S. President Barack Obama, an Interior Department spokesman told Reuters on Wednesday.
Shortly after being sworn in on Tuesday, Obama ordered all federal agencies and departments to halt pending regulations until they can be reviewed by incoming staff.
Hugh Vickery, a department spokesman, said the department has been notified by the White House that it will be able to proceed with a proposed draft of a five-year plan to lease areas in the Atlantic and Pacific waters for oil and natural gas drilling.
The preliminary plan would authorize 31 energy exploration lease sales between 2010 and 2015 for tracts along the east coast and off the coasts of Alaska and California.
When the plan was unveiled last week, the department said it would provide the Obama administration with the option to begin leasing recently opened areas in 2010, two years before the current leasing plan is set to end.
The department issued a notice Wednesday requesting public comments on the plan. The comment period will be open for 60 days. After that, the Obama administration would have to decide whether to proceed with an official proposal, make changes or scrap it.
Both presidential and congressional bans on drilling in most U.S. waters ended last year.
The Interior Department estimates that the Outer Continental Shelf holds 86 billion barrels of oil and 420 trillion cubic feet of natural gas that have yet to be discovered. It is possible U.S. offshore areas, which have not been explored in 25 years, could contain more oil and gas.
Separately, Vickery said the department's plan to develop oil shale fields in the western United States would also continue.
(Reporting by Ayesha Rascoe and Tom Doggett; Editing by Christian Wiessner)
Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:29pm EST
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A proposal issued in the final days of the Bush administration to expand offshore drilling in previously banned areas will move forward under the administration of U.S. President Barack Obama, an Interior Department spokesman told Reuters on Wednesday.
Shortly after being sworn in on Tuesday, Obama ordered all federal agencies and departments to halt pending regulations until they can be reviewed by incoming staff.
Hugh Vickery, a department spokesman, said the department has been notified by the White House that it will be able to proceed with a proposed draft of a five-year plan to lease areas in the Atlantic and Pacific waters for oil and natural gas drilling.
The preliminary plan would authorize 31 energy exploration lease sales between 2010 and 2015 for tracts along the east coast and off the coasts of Alaska and California.
When the plan was unveiled last week, the department said it would provide the Obama administration with the option to begin leasing recently opened areas in 2010, two years before the current leasing plan is set to end.
The department issued a notice Wednesday requesting public comments on the plan. The comment period will be open for 60 days. After that, the Obama administration would have to decide whether to proceed with an official proposal, make changes or scrap it.
Both presidential and congressional bans on drilling in most U.S. waters ended last year.
The Interior Department estimates that the Outer Continental Shelf holds 86 billion barrels of oil and 420 trillion cubic feet of natural gas that have yet to be discovered. It is possible U.S. offshore areas, which have not been explored in 25 years, could contain more oil and gas.
Separately, Vickery said the department's plan to develop oil shale fields in the western United States would also continue.
(Reporting by Ayesha Rascoe and Tom Doggett; Editing by Christian Wiessner)
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» Yeah, offshore drilling, that's a "progressive" policy.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Yeah, offshore drilling, that's a "progressive" policy.
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield
» RE: Yeah, offshore drilling, that's a "progressive" policy.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» Yikes! I guess they'll be riding oil globs at Mavericks soon...
Posted by: chance garden
» RE: D ALERT !! RED ALERT !! KISSY FACE OBAMA JUST GAVE BIG OIL A MAJOR MAJOR "VICTORY" !!!
Posted by: Shey
» As predicted, the Obamabots will rationalize Obama's offshore drilling
Posted by: GuitarBill
» I agree GuitarBill, but you did not refute what Shey said, so why jump all over him? n/m
Posted by: PaulC
» RE: I agree GuitarBill, but you did not refute what Shey said, so why jump all over him? n/m
Posted by: Shey
» On the contrary, you're rationalizing.
Posted by: GuitarBill
Comments are closed-
And Now For Something Completely Different
Posted by: Liberty G on Jan 22, 2009 4:24 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Liberty G on Jan 22, 2009 4:24 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's my plan to save the economy/create jobs:
1. Vastly increase the number of low and mid-level (very important) government and municipal jobs, using that bailout cash.
You heard right - more government jobs - of the type that actually benefit people, health, education and the environment. Teachers, environment and health agencies, and, yes, construction/infrastructure improvements. Maybe build some railways and run them. FDR did it - hired people directly, instead of filtering "job-creation" through private corps. dedicated to skimming off much of the money for executives and stockholders - and to making money, not doing good works.
2. To help finance this, put back the taxes for the rich to old-time levels - or close to them - at least twice the paltry ones they pay today. Fact is, the country was prosperous when top income brackets paid plenty in taxes - because the money went to the good of the country and its people, not to luxuries for a favored few. And by the way, with all the announcements of layoffs, cuts in salary, benefits and hours - have we heard a single one about anybody in an upper income bracket making a sacrifice of any sort? It's just the peons taking the hit. (Except for President Obama's announcement of a pay freeze in the White House - a nice, symbolic gesture, but a drop in the bucket).
1. Vastly increase the number of low and mid-level (very important) government and municipal jobs, using that bailout cash.
You heard right - more government jobs - of the type that actually benefit people, health, education and the environment. Teachers, environment and health agencies, and, yes, construction/infrastructure improvements. Maybe build some railways and run them. FDR did it - hired people directly, instead of filtering "job-creation" through private corps. dedicated to skimming off much of the money for executives and stockholders - and to making money, not doing good works.
2. To help finance this, put back the taxes for the rich to old-time levels - or close to them - at least twice the paltry ones they pay today. Fact is, the country was prosperous when top income brackets paid plenty in taxes - because the money went to the good of the country and its people, not to luxuries for a favored few. And by the way, with all the announcements of layoffs, cuts in salary, benefits and hours - have we heard a single one about anybody in an upper income bracket making a sacrifice of any sort? It's just the peons taking the hit. (Except for President Obama's announcement of a pay freeze in the White House - a nice, symbolic gesture, but a drop in the bucket).
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» RE: I like it Liberty G!
Posted by: watching-n-waiting
» RE: I like it Liberty G!
Posted by: a2plusb2equalc2
» RE: And Now For Something Completely Different
Posted by: maglindracia
Comments are closed-
CORPORATE MAFIA gut & burn operation
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Jan 22, 2009 5:04 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Jan 22, 2009 5:04 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1st of all Obama is barely a play-actor hired by the ruling class to bemuse and confuse the sandbox gullible (sadly, most Americans). To look at a list of Obama cabinet, “advisors” and campaign supporters is to see a lineup of felons that created the financial crash underway.
William Greider a Washington/Status Quo insider “expert” speaks and Alternet (corporate MSM lite) readers listen…
“the government must nationalize and supervise the banks to ensure that they carry out the lending and investing needed for recovery.”
Of course no word on whether to nationalize the Ponzi farce that sponsored and thus created the derivatives mess to begin with: the private fascist bank Federal Reserve Corp (not federal, no reserves) that prints debt money out of thin air for the ruling class. And so, brainwashed Americans pay the interest on the debt.
“Without such a move, the taxpayers will essentially be financing the slow death of failed institutions while getting nothing in return.”
“nothing in return? ” Really?
Trillions are being thrown at the criminals that started this mess. To say they are getting “nothing in return” is a quite absurd.
Nationalizing criminally run banks (2nd tier instruments of the ruling class where the “FED” is 1st tier) will NOT save the system. It will only slow the collapse. And Greider forgot to mention that to “save the system” is not the goal of any crash as severe as this one. The target was always to hijack the nation into a FASCIST spiral where money and power go into the concentrated hands of Organized Corporate Crime (i.e. Fascism).
This is a classic Mafia Corp style gut and burn extortion operation where “insurance” (naïve U.S. citizens) pays the cost of destruction. Without a valid industrial base and no method of generating real wealth no economy can survive under corporate crime fiat for long.
In the end, the nation has to become even more obviously what it actually is: an extortion racket FASCIST CORPORATE MONOPOLY STATE run by (one more time) international Organized Corporate Crime..
William Greider a Washington/Status Quo insider “expert” speaks and Alternet (corporate MSM lite) readers listen…
“the government must nationalize and supervise the banks to ensure that they carry out the lending and investing needed for recovery.”
Of course no word on whether to nationalize the Ponzi farce that sponsored and thus created the derivatives mess to begin with: the private fascist bank Federal Reserve Corp (not federal, no reserves) that prints debt money out of thin air for the ruling class. And so, brainwashed Americans pay the interest on the debt.
“Without such a move, the taxpayers will essentially be financing the slow death of failed institutions while getting nothing in return.”
“nothing in return? ” Really?
Trillions are being thrown at the criminals that started this mess. To say they are getting “nothing in return” is a quite absurd.
Nationalizing criminally run banks (2nd tier instruments of the ruling class where the “FED” is 1st tier) will NOT save the system. It will only slow the collapse. And Greider forgot to mention that to “save the system” is not the goal of any crash as severe as this one. The target was always to hijack the nation into a FASCIST spiral where money and power go into the concentrated hands of Organized Corporate Crime (i.e. Fascism).
This is a classic Mafia Corp style gut and burn extortion operation where “insurance” (naïve U.S. citizens) pays the cost of destruction. Without a valid industrial base and no method of generating real wealth no economy can survive under corporate crime fiat for long.
In the end, the nation has to become even more obviously what it actually is: an extortion racket FASCIST CORPORATE MONOPOLY STATE run by (one more time) international Organized Corporate Crime..
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» Nationalize? Did he say the "N" word?
Posted by: chance garden
Comments are closed-
gimme gloom, doom, and devastation under Obama ....
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Jan 22, 2009 5:23 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Jan 22, 2009 5:23 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
gimme gloom, doom, and devastation under Obama over BushCheney anyday.
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» RE: And just brace yourself as one imagines Palin/McCain!
Posted by: watching-n-waiting
Comments are closed-
A.A.R.'s Ron Reagan got it right...
Posted by: watching-n-waiting on Jan 22, 2009 5:27 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: watching-n-waiting on Jan 22, 2009 5:27 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...we're wondering what the problem is... as Merrill Lynch was "going down the crapper", Thain, the CEO (while eyeing off a $10M bonus) installed a 1.22 MILLION dollar bathroom in his office!
How utterly ironic that it apparently included a 35,000 Commode on wheels!
Other highlights:
87,000: rug
28,000: curtains
11,000 towels (but not monogramed he noted as he didn't wish to be ostentatious)
25,000 mahogany table (was it manufactured from the last timber from the last tree?)
How utterly ironic that it apparently included a 35,000 Commode on wheels!
Other highlights:
87,000: rug
28,000: curtains
11,000 towels (but not monogramed he noted as he didn't wish to be ostentatious)
25,000 mahogany table (was it manufactured from the last timber from the last tree?)
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Comments are closed-
Check Out the first post to the White House Blog
Posted by: Dixie Dawg on Jan 22, 2009 5:29 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Dixie Dawg on Jan 22, 2009 5:29 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First post by Macon Phillips posted here. He does a brief overview.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/
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I am moved to testify
Posted by: PaulK on Jan 22, 2009 9:28 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: PaulK on Jan 22, 2009 9:28 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Treasury Secretary nominee Timothy Geithner told the Senate that he used Turbotax, and that he saved $21,000 by using Turbotax. This may say something about Geithner, it may say something about IRS auditors, and it may also say something about Turbotax.
I am moved to testify that within 24 hours of taking office, President Obama has put more hours on my time clock and cash in my pocket. I work for an independently owned income tax office, the kind that's known locally for quality work. This kind of publicity for Turbotax is really good for our office's business. Thank you, Mr. President!
Gag line aside, I think President Obama will do a lot better with limited resources than the Republicans could have done.
I am moved to testify that within 24 hours of taking office, President Obama has put more hours on my time clock and cash in my pocket. I work for an independently owned income tax office, the kind that's known locally for quality work. This kind of publicity for Turbotax is really good for our office's business. Thank you, Mr. President!
Gag line aside, I think President Obama will do a lot better with limited resources than the Republicans could have done.
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The human
Posted by: wormfarmer on Jan 22, 2009 10:01 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: wormfarmer on Jan 22, 2009 10:01 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
condition needs regulation, if left without it,............ We've seen just how insane our culture is prone to be. I'm willing to be regulated for the period of time it takes to reclaim a resemblance of sanity. It's not regulation I'm concerned with, its the unreasonable ways it can be wielded. The pendulum swings both ways, it is up to the PEOPLE to seek and apply reason. Speak up. Get involved in our government. Shut down the central bank.
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The focal point
Posted by: Izaiah on Jan 22, 2009 10:39 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Izaiah on Jan 22, 2009 10:39 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The focal point of this plan is job-producing projects that can get started quickly. In addition, he says he is going to provide assistance for middle and low-income families, who are the ones who typically take out payday loans, and provide debt relief for students. He plans to do this through a form of tax cuts and he plans to invest in infrastructure such as bridges, roads and water mains. We’re going to need a huge dose of that stimulus plan to at least stabilize the U.S. economy in this deepening recession. I found an interesting article from my payday loan source that talks about the new economic plan. It turns out Republicans are not the only party opposing President Barack Obama’s tax cut proposals. The Democrats are arguing that the economic stimulus plan in which Obama calls the American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan will be far from effective. Some believe the mix of tax breaks currently proposed will not provide exactly what the American nation is in need of. Democratic leaders came out strongly against tax cuts outlined in the plan, which would decrease withholdings from Americans’ paychecks and offer tax incentives to businesses that hired new workers. The Bush administration’s stimulus check plan last year made little difference, and many argue that the tax cuts resemble that initiative. You can learn more about President Obama’s economic plan through this article I found on the payday loan blog at PersonalMoneyStore.com.
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» RE: The focal point
Posted by: Shey
Comments are closed-
Green Alert! Green Alert!! Reuters article misleading and inaccurate
Posted by: Shey on Jan 23, 2009 4:05 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Shey on Jan 23, 2009 4:05 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Reuters article posted above by Jennifer Bedingfield is both misleading and inaccurate, and hardly hands a "victory to big oil" as the heading of the comment claims.
Just read it carefully. First they covered their asses by stating (accurately) that "Shortly after being sworn in, Obama ordered all Federal Agencies and Departments to halt pending regulations until they can be reviewed by incoming staff".
But then the misleading language starts. It goes on to say "A spokesman said that the Department has been notified by the White House that it will be able to proceed with a proposed draft of a five year plan to lease areas in the Atlantic and Pacific waters for oil and natural gas drilling."
The only comment from President Obama's administration so far is from the new Secretary of Interior Ken Salazar, who said that that Interior is "likely to scale back" the Bush plan. Hardly a ringing endorsement, much less the "go ahead" indicated by the skillfully misleading wording of the Reuters article.
And it's very likely that they'll end up doing much more than just scaling it back, when you consider the fact that one of President Obama's first acts was to rescind Bush's OK to drill in the vicinity of protected wilderness areas and National Parks in Utah and Colorado.
Read the sour grapes comments and "supporting" articles very carefully people, we're going to be bombarded by misleading, inaccurate bullshit like this, day in and day out.
Just read it carefully. First they covered their asses by stating (accurately) that "Shortly after being sworn in, Obama ordered all Federal Agencies and Departments to halt pending regulations until they can be reviewed by incoming staff".
But then the misleading language starts. It goes on to say "A spokesman said that the Department has been notified by the White House that it will be able to proceed with a proposed draft of a five year plan to lease areas in the Atlantic and Pacific waters for oil and natural gas drilling."
The only comment from President Obama's administration so far is from the new Secretary of Interior Ken Salazar, who said that that Interior is "likely to scale back" the Bush plan. Hardly a ringing endorsement, much less the "go ahead" indicated by the skillfully misleading wording of the Reuters article.
And it's very likely that they'll end up doing much more than just scaling it back, when you consider the fact that one of President Obama's first acts was to rescind Bush's OK to drill in the vicinity of protected wilderness areas and National Parks in Utah and Colorado.
Read the sour grapes comments and "supporting" articles very carefully people, we're going to be bombarded by misleading, inaccurate bullshit like this, day in and day out.
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» RE: Green Alert! Green Alert!! Reuters article misleading and inaccurate
Posted by: maglindracia
» RE: Bunk Alert! Bunk Alert!! Shey's interpretation misleading and inaccurate
Posted by: GuitarBill
» I didn't jump all over anyone.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» I understand the meaning of "if". Too bad you don't understand the meaning of "Freedom of Speech".
Posted by: GuitarBill
Comments are closed-
by the people and for the people
Posted by: wagnerrocks@gmail.com on Jan 23, 2009 10:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: wagnerrocks@gmail.com on Jan 23, 2009 10:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I said it on the first news of the bailout...why bail out the banks and wall street? they created the entire mess we are in. Instead, give the bailout funds directly to the people...it will be spent and directly lift the economy, infuse the banks, and keep families in their homes. Then nationalize the banks, stop corporations from manufacturing overseas and return it to our country. i could go on, but what I think has pretty much been covered by this intense stream of comments I've been reading for the last 4 hours. Thanks to all who care so much about America's future.
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OBAMA TO GOP: SHUT UP
Posted by: reelman on Jan 24, 2009 9:36 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: reelman on Jan 24, 2009 9:36 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From article by CHARLES HURT, BUREAU CHIEF, 1.23.09
WASHINGTON -- President Obama warned Republicans on Capitol Hill today that they need to quit listening to radio king Rush Limbaugh if they want to get along with Democrats and the new administration.
"You can't just listen to Rush Limbaugh and get things done," he told top GOP leaders, whom he had invited to the White House to discuss his nearly $1 trillion stimulus package.
One White House official confirmed the comment but said he was simply trying to make a larger point about bipartisan efforts.
"There are big things that unify Republicans and Democrats," the official said. "We shouldn't let partisan politics derail what are very important things that need to get done."
--
CRAWFISH NOTE: Permit me to translate...only Democrats are allowed to stand on their principles when in the minority...we do not want comparisons or questions or plans to reach the voters, no scrutiny of trillion dollar socialist "borrow to spend" porky vote-buying bills is allowed...the liberal owners of "partisan politics" dare to accuse others (as they always always do). Democrats want only "shared blame"...so when it all goes to crap as it always has when socialists take over an economy (aka Jimmah Carter)...the libmedia diaper-changers can say "Republicans also supported....".
Stand tall, resist this trashing of an economy...continue to challenge secular socialism and loudly offer alternatives!!!
(http://www.conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish/)
WASHINGTON -- President Obama warned Republicans on Capitol Hill today that they need to quit listening to radio king Rush Limbaugh if they want to get along with Democrats and the new administration.
"You can't just listen to Rush Limbaugh and get things done," he told top GOP leaders, whom he had invited to the White House to discuss his nearly $1 trillion stimulus package.
One White House official confirmed the comment but said he was simply trying to make a larger point about bipartisan efforts.
"There are big things that unify Republicans and Democrats," the official said. "We shouldn't let partisan politics derail what are very important things that need to get done."
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CRAWFISH NOTE: Permit me to translate...only Democrats are allowed to stand on their principles when in the minority...we do not want comparisons or questions or plans to reach the voters, no scrutiny of trillion dollar socialist "borrow to spend" porky vote-buying bills is allowed...the liberal owners of "partisan politics" dare to accuse others (as they always always do). Democrats want only "shared blame"...so when it all goes to crap as it always has when socialists take over an economy (aka Jimmah Carter)...the libmedia diaper-changers can say "Republicans also supported....".
Stand tall, resist this trashing of an economy...continue to challenge secular socialism and loudly offer alternatives!!!
(http://www.conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish/)
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Shut up
Posted by: Shey on Jan 25, 2009 5:04 PM
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Posted by: Shey on Jan 25, 2009 5:04 PM
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In light of what the GOP has done to this country over the years, especially but certainly not exclusively the Shrub/Darth Cheney years, those who aren't willing to work with the new legitimately elected administration and Democratic majority in Congress, damn well need to 'shut up'.
Although that isn't what Obama said. Way to go with the trying to create a new myth for the gullible.
Although that isn't what Obama said. Way to go with the trying to create a new myth for the gullible.
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» RUSH CHALLENGES OBAMA! (alternate idea)
Posted by: reelman
» "Shut up"? You sound like Bill O'Reilly.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Shut up
Posted by: reelman
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Porkulus
Posted by: McMusicman1 on Jan 28, 2009 4:48 PM
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Posted by: McMusicman1 on Jan 28, 2009 4:48 PM
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All hail the Messiah's Porkulus plan has passed!
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quick fix
Posted by: abletuno1 on Jan 28, 2009 9:56 PM
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Posted by: abletuno1 on Jan 28, 2009 9:56 PM
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socialize health care, stimulus 455k to married filers and 255 for single filers, mandetory credit paydowns, no vagas vacations.
all troops home use the drones and two teams.
and find all unexploded ordinances off the coast of florida from 20-30 year old blunder which left a live atom bomb in sediment just fifty yards from the coast. (a cable tv show with recent past 10 years show it was not found)
put tarrifs on corporation that have outsourced, so they bring home jobs. legalize marijuana
all troops home use the drones and two teams.
and find all unexploded ordinances off the coast of florida from 20-30 year old blunder which left a live atom bomb in sediment just fifty yards from the coast. (a cable tv show with recent past 10 years show it was not found)
put tarrifs on corporation that have outsourced, so they bring home jobs. legalize marijuana
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Re:Obama's Economic Plan will not going to save us
Posted by: EverettW on Jan 29, 2009 10:51 PM
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Posted by: EverettW on Jan 29, 2009 10:51 PM
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Many question and issues arises when President Obama announced his economic stimulus plan that will save our faltering economy to the deepening economic crisis. Many people are still asking if the economy will go back to what it is before we hit by the economic crisis. As of now many people are still in need of payday loan to buy their necessities. In addition to this, Lobbyists looking to establish influence over bailout funds couldn't get their way no matter how many online payday loans they got. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner has declared that any officials that deal with bailout fund allocation can have no communications with lobbyists or lawmakers. This new declaration effectively puts the Department of the Treasury and all agents and otherwise only under the influence of the numbers and facts – like how online payday loans put all the information right in front of you. Geithner believes that the Treasury should not have outside influences, and should help those that need it, like online payday loans help those in need. Read more about the bailouts and payday loans at the Money Blog.
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