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FISA Bill's Real Target: What Remains of Our Open Society

By Chris Hedges, LA Times. Posted July 12, 2008.


The new FISA law uses terrorism as a pretext to permit wholesale spying and would seriously cripple our free press.
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If the sweeping surveillance law signed by President Bush on Thursday -- giving the U.S. government nearly unchecked authority to eavesdrop on the phone calls and e-mails of innocent Americans -- is allowed to stand, we will have eroded one of the most important bulwarks to a free press and an open society.

The new FISA Amendments Act nearly eviscerates oversight of government surveillance. It allows the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to review only general procedures for spying rather than individual warrants. The court will not be told specifics about who will be wiretapped, which means the law provides woefully inadequate safeguards to protect innocent people whose communications are caught up in the government's dragnet surveillance program.

The law, passed under the guise of national security, ostensibly targets people outside the country. There is no question, however, that it will ensnare many communications between Americans and those overseas. Those communications can be stored indefinitely and disseminated, not just to the U.S. government but to other governments.

This law will cripple the work of those of us who as reporters communicate regularly with people overseas, especially those in the Middle East. It will intimidate dissidents, human rights activists and courageous officials who seek to expose the lies of our government or governments allied with ours. It will hang like the sword of Damocles over all who dare to defy the official versions of events. It leaves open the possibility of retribution and invites the potential for abuse by those whose concern is not with national security but with the consolidation of their own power.

I have joined an ACLU lawsuit challenging the new law along with other journalists, human rights organizations and defense attorneys who also rely on confidentiality to do their work. I have joined not only because this law takes aim at my work but because I believe it signals a serious erosion of safeguards that make possible our democratic state. Laws and their just application are the only protection we have as citizens. Once the law is changed to permit the impermissible, we have no recourse with which to fight back.

I spent nearly 20 years as a foreign correspondent for the New York Times, as well as other news organizations. I covered the conflict in the Middle East for seven years. I have friends and colleagues in Jerusalem, Gaza, Cairo, Damascus, Tehran, Baghdad and Beirut. I could easily be one of those innocent Americans who are spied on under the government's new surveillance authority.

The reach of such surveillance has already hampered my work. I was once told about a showdown between a U.S. warship and the Iranian navy that had the potential to escalate into a military conflict. I contacted someone who was on the ship at the time of the alleged incident and who reportedly had photos. His first question was whether my phone and e-mails were being monitored.

What could I say? How could I know? I offered to travel to see him but, frightened of retribution, he refused. I do not know if the man's story is true. I only know that the fear of surveillance made it impossible for me to determine its veracity. Under this law, all those who hold information that could embarrass and expose the lies of those in power will have similar fears. Confidentiality, and the understanding that as a reporter I will honor this confidentiality, permits a free press to function. Take it away and a free press withers and dies.

I know the cost of terrorism and the consequences of war. I have investigated Al Qaeda's operation in Europe and have covered numerous conflicts. The monitoring of suspected terrorists, with proper oversight, is a crucial part of our national security. But this law is not about keeping us safe, which can -- and should -- be done in a constitutional manner and with judicial oversight. It is about using terrorism as a pretext to permit wholesale spying and to silence voices that will allow us to maintain an open society.

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Chris Hedges, a Pulitzer prize-winning reporter, is a Senior Fellow at the Nation Institute. His latest book is Collateral Damage: America's War Against Iraqi Civilians.

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Yep, Past and Future Immunity for TelCos
Posted by: mmckinl on Jul 12, 2008 12:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And the Democrats and Obama let this go right through, not even a timetable for reconsideration.

Vote Green ... time for New Party ...

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I Knew the Appeasers Would Redact the Fourth Amendmrnt of the BILL OF RIGHTS...
Posted by: Turiye on Jul 12, 2008 12:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Despicable, the entire lot! I have been married to a Turkish man for 25 years, our daughter and him left for our home in Turkey and will be gone for 7 weeks. Under TITLE VII-- ADDITIONAL PROCEDURES REGARDING CERTAIN PERSONS OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES, 'SEC. 703 and 'SEC. 704, I'm sure to begin hearing the crosstalk and odd sounds once again.
There's another partof this GD decimation of the Constitution, TITLE I--FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SURVEILLANCE, 'SEC. 107, it is about physical searches, whenever for whatever of whomever just BECAUSE.
I am so outta' this country, if someone would buy this behomoth of a house. Trying to decide where I want to live, Dusseldorf was great, didn't like Paris, don't want to live in Istanbul 24/7 maybe Amsterdam. For Sale: Five bedroom, 3 bath, finished basement, with....
Thanks for screwing this up Too, I HATE YOU!@!!

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Tap Dancin'
Posted by: QQOblivion on Jul 12, 2008 2:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
May all the Democrat traitors who voted for this repeal of our once-valued rights have THEIR phones and emails tapped. No doubt the Republicans will tap the Democrats' communications, therefore stealing elections from the Democrats.

Too bad the GREENS aren't tapping the Democrats' communications instead!...

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» RE: Tap Dancin' Posted by: annavan1
» RE: Tap Dancin' Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Tap Dancin' Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Tap Dancin' Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Tap Dancin' Posted by: Lauren
Society and Human Relations: A Central(ized) Processing Unit
Posted by: talkville on Jul 12, 2008 3:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If I were, say, a "genius" of sorts, and thoroughly and completely Enjoyed, Loved, Yearned-for, and was sustained by Mathematics, Geometries, Calculations, etc. -- 1. I would not need to leave my own mind, and would be Eternally Gratified; 2. I would find my Body, all things Temporal, Passing, Flitting away as a bother, a hindrance, an obstacle, to my Eternal Joy. I would HATE and DESPISE all these distractions and annoying things. I might decide to sit, like the Ascetic of 2000 years ago, on a Pillar in the Desert, focus on my Math, or Geometry or Calculation, and let the sun bake my skin, the flies feast on my flesh and wither away -- carelessly; for I was "in 7th Heaven, in Eternity!!

Here, before me, my Computer. Technology. Based on 1's and 0's and an Incomparable, Un-matchable Ascetic Machine. No sensual woman sitting before it bothers it one bit; no breeze on its skin ever distracts it, no Outside Sound deters it. The Central Processing Unit hums, whirrs, and does its Calculations and Geometries and Algorithms, Eternally Joyful. On this our Technological Age, Our Information Revolution, is now firmly BASED and chugging along.

Not only Individuals, but Groups, Tribes, Organizations, entire Societies can now, in principle, be rationalized and absorbed into this Mathematical Perfection and Eternal Joy. Storage Capacity ("Memory") is or is becoming adequate to these Tasks.

Individuals, profiles, biographies, histories, each integrated and absorbed into the "Data Base". Perfectly, Flawlessly, Eternally. Mr Machine WANTS us ALL!

The Corporate-State says: Centralize ALL; Process Them All; in a Unit. "In you go, Human!; your Relations with others of your Kind are now completely Rational, True, Frictionless, and.... Eternal; HERE in MY Mind!" You are now An American, exactly like all others, yet retaining your 'profile', your 'role', your 'function'. Right here, in the CPU.! Ain't it SWEET! Now, The World!!

1's and 0's. You can't even Choose which one! This is Freedom! Eternal Freedom!. In you go, you despicable, frail, imperfect and fallible, undignified and unruly and troublesome Humans!

Well, at least MOST of you! I, the Happy, Orderly, the Rational, the Excellent, the Perfect, the Chosen One, together with my Circle of Friends can finally now live Happily Ever After. The Loop is Closed. We can Manage it all from Here, comfy in our jeans, cool drinks in hand, going and coming as we please. What a GOOD life this is!!

Machine for the Human or Human for the Machine? Ask Jeeves! Google for the Answer! Take a side. It doesn't matter; if you don't like it, request a Profile Change through the Appropriate Channels.

Is it happening? In Real-Time? In my considered, lowly-Human, opinion: you betcha!

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» No Longer in Doubt Posted by: When In Doubt
The Real Purpose
Posted by: Brother Tim on Jul 12, 2008 4:17 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have a great deal of respect for Chris' work, but he's a bit off on this one. The main purpose of the illegal wiretapping was Congressional. All the rest is lagniappe.

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» RE: The Real Purpose Posted by: talkville
Right On Big Bro!
Posted by: cherylholmes on Jul 12, 2008 4:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am so glad this bill passed! There are so many terrorists online it's hard to surf the net with all that added internet traffic. Sure slows down our internet connection speed. Just try to make a long distance call on your home phone w/o getting "all circuits are busy!" Damn terrorists clogging up the net and the phone lines! Maybe this will keep them offline and off their telephones.
VOTE McSame 2008

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Actually,
Posted by: Last Chance on Jul 12, 2008 4:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I want everyone to read and hear what I have to say, wiretappers and eavesdroppers included. They might learn something about our human dilemma and decide to do something creative, like growing a garden in their spare time.

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Orwellian
Posted by: beautifulady2003 on Jul 12, 2008 5:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you want to know how you can tell if you're being monitored on the internet? I can tell you. I had a friend in Syria in 2004 who is a prominent human rights activist. We used to chat online and I would send him links to American and European news articles. First, I discovered that my emails weren't getting to him. Then, on yahoo messenger, it kept crashing/freezing up. Eventually, we couldn't chat at all. I could not communicate with him. More than a year later, his name appeared in Amnesty International's annual report of political prisoners. My friend had been sentenced to 4 years in Syrian prison for speaking out against the government and using the internet to spread "lies."

We're heading down that same road.

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» RE: Orwellian Posted by: Lauren
Much Ado ...
Posted by: gazooks on Jul 12, 2008 5:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... about more of the same. Just better.

It's not as if the spooks hadn't already the tools necessary to do what they do. It simply makes intelligence gathering more akin to shopping at Wal Mart,... convenience without a conscience.

The price? That too is always low to those increasing numbers of citizens de-housed, dis-SUV'd, displaced and disenfranchised.

Maybe after the fall, when freedom truly is just a word for nothing left to lose, we'll come to our senses. But don't bet in it.

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» RE: Much Ado ... Posted by: Lauren
Unlike the song, it can be too late
Posted by: bryangalt on Jul 12, 2008 5:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
my advice to all of my fellow citizens is as follows:

1. on election day, make a concerted effort to get two of your neighbors to vote. They in turn should get the next two neighbors to vote and so on.

2. all of you arrive en masse to the polls and vote for the person that is not the encumbent. The congress and the white house are both in dire need of a political enema, and its time for us to make a stand and a statement.

3. the statement is simple: congressmen, if you are so chickshit that you cannot even stand up for the constitution for fear of the bastard bitch bush, none of you deserve your jobs. Isn't it bad enough that you're allowing this fucking war criminal to get away with murder, get away with trampling our rights, violating federal laws and who knows what else? YOU ARE TRAITORS CONGRESSMEN, JUST LIKE BUSH. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AN AMERICAN PATRIOT IF YOU ARE SO WILLING TO TAKE IT UP THE ASS AND GIVE TO US ALL AS WELL.

4. I apologize if my language is a little harsh, but i fear that we are teetering on that point in history where harsh language and physical violence is just a stone's throw away thanks to our government and their utter stupidity.

5. If we don't do something about the state of our economy, the state of our ecology and the state of our spiritual well being (and I'm not referring to your gods either), we are going to be joining the tens of millions of other citizens from other countries throughout time that stood by while their governments used their positions of absolute power to torture, beat, harass and kill at will.

Welcome to the future...

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Well? More power to Islamo/Christo fundies here in America and all over the world !
Posted by: maxpayne on Jul 12, 2008 5:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While more innocent civilians both at home and abroad end up on the rising casualty count, the fundies will keep getting stronger. Do you people really expect Pat Robertson and Osama bin Laden to be affected by this sham at all? Hell, it's going to be more privacy for these bastards with more hell for the rest of us. After watching the Constitution get destroyed bill after bill rapidly this decade alone, it's high time to learn to be VIGILANTES like Casey Jones and Paul Kersey and fight back.

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One slender hope
Posted by: StillStanding on Jul 12, 2008 7:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's not forget that the ACLU has filed suit against the FISA law. It's our one slender hope that the Constitution can be saved following the perfidious conduct of the Senators and Representatives who voted for it. I sent the ACLU a contribution this week to help fight what Obama and his pals have done, quite intentionally, to subvert our core principles as a nation.

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» RE: One slender hope Posted by: QQOblivion
» RE: One slender hope Posted by: Mr. G
» RE: One slender hope Posted by: StillStanding
» RE: One slender hope Posted by: Lauren
Our nation is all enraged and not being listened to by the government at all
Posted by: common intelligence on Jul 12, 2008 8:56 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It absolutely blows my mind that there is not a person i can engage a conversation with anywhere in the continent, (Less I say United States, because we are NOT) , that isn't dumbfounded by the governments deafness to our dimay with the whole system of actons that are being installed under the guise of terrorism.

Chris, I thank you for your estute conveyience understanding the impact of this congresses actions. (They are making it happen, you know.)
Things are as you say with freedom to investigate and report truth for "licenced" Reporters.

But the instilling of such surveilance and controls over those of us that are at the forefront of maintaining what we call "protecting our freedom" are all being incrimentally whittled away.

From teachers and medical personal, scientists, artists, that are, being economically squeezed out of positions, to control peoples knowledge of how they see it all coming down and inceasing peoples longevity, to peoples economic ability to actually impliment improvements for social peace. This nation is being systematically chained down.

The Coup'd tate was not televised!

It is all because the governement and the corporate system of capitalism is an udder failure tiddering on complete collapse.

The system, as it is, is overwhelmed with infrastructural deterioraton. Now with all the natural disasters increasing with magnitude and frequency, the economic model can not maintain things as they have been expected they need be. Yet ironically, the country's honest leading people are stiffled to engage keeping the country together because of the lack of intellegence ( I mean "brains" not Surveilance. Isn't it interesting that in the middle of the word surveilance is Veil?) in congress? The continues escrusiating drivel of retoric the congress meanders around makes my head spin.

Even though, there are smart people within it, they can't seem to initiate corrections to the buerocratic entanglement.

Why in this hell is BUSH and Cheney not in Jail?
Does the Government have a consciousness that it "Feels" it can't face imbarassment that it is as "We the People" know, It is a failed social experiment, economically , socially and democratically?

This nation does not take care of it's citzens. Yet the media would convey to the contrary. Like it sends provisions around the world to help distressed nations cope with humanitarian needs all while neglecting the same in it's own land; it's deteriorates within.

How is it the people continue to stay in denial? Continuing to waste our human and natural resouces in trivial pursuits in order to maintain and economy that is based on debt? I emapathize with those that "know" but can't seem to help, and pithy the ignorant that are helplessly victims of this milestone nightmare in the history of mankind.

Any wealth the nation may have left is being desimated into the future as the countries so called leaders continue to push an empire of greed for a few.

I'm beginning to think the legend of "El Keida" is "right(wing) and the mysterious Osama Bin laden has already won As planned!

YA see, Osama Bin laden is a myth drummed up by the "machine".
Even the Iraqis and all of the Islamic people don't believe there is even a Osama. Why do we? Because the media has told us, so it must be true!

Awe......sorry. I'm getting carried away. But you get the picture.
The only enemy is the United States of Mythology.

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FISA and fascism
Posted by: citizenjoe on Jul 12, 2008 9:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hedges is spot on as usual. He even sees that this closing of society is a major step toward fascism. (He wrote a book about Christian Fascism.) It never ceases to amaze me how misled and uncomprehending most people are (not Chris) about the nature of fascism. Its defining characteristics are 1) a policy of corporate and political world empire of nation-states; 2) a corporately organized society governed politically by an authoritarian leadership in quest of empire. This is the Bush regime.

The idea of a totalitarian dictatorship fits Nazi Germany pretty well and fits Mussolini's Italy quite poorly. The aim of dictatorship in the 1920- 1940 period was to deal with the specific conditions facing the fascist movements of that time. Unlike the fools who think this was a defining feature of fascism, the new fascists such as Haider (Austria) and Fini (Italy) and the later Carl Schmitt (Germany), understood perfectly well that the "totalitarianism" view of fascism is bullshit.Don't you really think that Bush Co understand that they are squarely in the fascist tradition?

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ACLU should Point at those of congress as Traitors to the country.
Posted by: common intelligence on Jul 12, 2008 9:16 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't get over this, sorry.

Every single Democrat that voted for the FISA Bill is a traitor.

They should be set in front of a firing squad. Like all traitors.

Oh but I guess they're riding on Bush's "executive privliege" shirt tails.

I quess if Carl Rove can we all can.

What the fuck is not clear here.

Oh, I know. Bush said so............"(The Constitution) it's just a God damn piece of paper".

This country is a lost cause.

SCREAM LOUDER!!!!!!!!

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» Feingold's asst told me Posted by: foreverhope
» Feingold's assistant is not Feingold! Posted by: photon's feather
27 comments? TWENTY-SEVEN FREAKIN COMMENTS?
Posted by: stellabloo on Jul 12, 2008 9:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What the hell is wrong with you americans when there are more posts on celeb-fixations than on Freedom of Speech?

I have been hearing about proposed restrictions on internet use and other such overt oppressions for a couple of years now... where is the outrage? I'm in Canada - I can't write my congressman!

Did you realize that new prosperity of China is largely due to slave labour (a historically sound economic model)? That up to 10 million Chinese work in forced labour camps at any given time - even now - often as a result of their political views? Would you ever think that your government would look at this prosperous model and take notes? Hmmmm....

Look, I've already been warned by a good (american) friend that I should not be searching certain combinations of keywords on my PC - it might suddenly develop "problems" :(

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» RE: 27 comments? don't worry Posted by: foreverhope
» Listen Stellabloo."WE ARE OUT RAGED" Posted by: common intelligence
The REAL reason Obama voted for the FISA bill.
Posted by: HughScott on Jul 12, 2008 9:31 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Call me over optimistic, but Obama is not stupid. He knows full well that most Americans want wiretaps on overseas phone calls to "protect" them from terrorists. Therefore, opposing the new FISA bill would cost Barack votes in November.

Conversely, if he wins the presidency and the Democrats control Congress, there is NOTHING that would prevent them from repealing the FISA law and filing criminal charges against the liable telephone companies.

It's called being PRAGMATIC!

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» Yes it is! Posted by: foreverhope
» It's Called Being Pragmatic Posted by: pdxstudent
We have to keep trying!
Posted by: foreverhope on Jul 12, 2008 9:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would like to begin a group on Yahoo to launch a petition to indict the BUSH/CHENEY administration. GET IT ALL OUT THERE, EVERY EVIL ILLEGAL THING!

People could download the petition. Put a petition like this into the hands of thousands, collect millions of signatures, respectfully requesting PRESIDENT OBAMA to appoint a special counsel to investigate ALL OF IT.

Kucinich (bless his sweet heart) has already brilliantly laid the groundwork with his recent articles of impeachment against GWB/CHENEY. We could use those articles to draft the petition, most of it is probably right there, easy peasy.

NOW! To deliever these petitions we enlist the help of Cindy Sheehan and veteran's orgs opposing the war. Organize "A Million March For Peace" on Washington DC.

I understand some of you are really very upset with Obama right now, I can't say I am not also somewhat disappointed by his FISA vote. However I still have hopes for this man, not ready to pass judgement, not ready to give up. With only about 115 days till the election however we might individually feel about this we don't have many immediate options. I believe what I am proposing is a better use of time and energy than hoping for a miracle third party candidate, and will go MUCH further to getting us where we want to go. What I am proposing CAN be done, I feel it SHOULD be done, the press would be FANTASTIC. It will put the war and the misdeeds of GWB on the front page and in the face of our collective leaders, both dem and repug. I really think it is more exciting and more productive than attempting to launch a third party candidate and so very little time left to do it.

If anyone is interested in pursuing this effort please let me know here or write to me:

foreverhope95@yahoo.com

I propose the Million March For Peace be (hypotheically) scheduled one year from today! This would send a POWERFUL message to ALL our elected leaders, both dem and repug, and, perhaps more importantly, to the WORLD. It would be HISTORICAL. OMG! I would LOVE to help make this happen!

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» RE: We have to keep trying! Posted by: StillStanding
» RE: We have to keep trying! Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: We have to keep trying! Posted by: foreverhope
Fourth Amendment's real protection
Posted by: Sushi on Jul 12, 2008 9:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Fourth Amendment's real protection is our right to privacy. This right was the basis of Roe v Wade. This is the camels nose under the tent to eliminate reproductive rights. Imagine every purchase you make; condoms, a pregnancy test kit, doctor's visit tracked and archived. When RvW gets overturned, the wealthy will have private doctors or can travel outside the country to "visit relatives" to have the procedure in a spa setting. The less fortunate will have to bear the consequences of our biology (punishment for being female and not rich) and raise the next generation of WalMart cashiers or grist for wars on our paltry wages. Eventually we might have to pee in a cup every time we want to cross state lines or travel outside the U.S. and aren't wealthy enough to have our own private jet. The government will own you.

Every grocery store purchase of potato chips and junk food or weight reduction products, allergy products could be used against you for health insurance rates. Products with known carcinogens used on a regular basis have Big Insurance looking at how to adjust your policy so you won't be covered. You are already targeted for purchases every time you fill out one of those loyalty-customer cards...ever wonder how your name gets on mailing lists for catalogs and the spam on your computer? Your info is being sold.

Our right to privacy is more than Big Bro peeking at our emails or listening into our stupid chatter about what to bring to the barbecue next Sunday. It's about compiling a Nazi-like list of charges that could get you thrown into a gulag for disagreeing with the powerful or o-r-g-a-n-i-z-i-n-g. They are TERRIFIED of us! We organize and they know they are in big trouble. They want to keep tabs on movements to squash them before they get too far out of CONTROL. (It's all about control.)

Sushi
"Can I deduct last years taxes as a bad investment ?"

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The Speed in Which The Entire World Is Descending To a State of Total Fascism is Amazing
Posted by: opmoc on Jul 12, 2008 11:02 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its basically a conspiracy between the extreme right and the extreme left who form a tiny minority.

What is even more amazing is the lack of any real opposition to the process.

Over 98% of the World is being herded just like lambs to the slaughter.

The world in my naive view looked full of potential on 1st of January 2000 to become a really nice place for my kids and grandkids to grow up in.

All they now have to look forward is the slave labour camps if they conform and are of adequate "quality"

Or extermination

I wonder which methods of Mass Extermination will top the new Fuehrer's DEATH CAMPS?

No doubt the research has already been done.

The current Fourth Reich will soon make Hitler's Lot appear like a bunch of Boy Scouts.

And no-one complains

Obama is a DISGRACE

Don't bother voting.

Its way past the point that voting will make the slightest difference.

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Control of Press and the Internet
Posted by: Southern Gal on Jul 12, 2008 11:09 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With the recent success of the Bush administration and the Congress in eliminating our Constitutional rights, how long do you believe that the Internet will be allowed to exist in this country without strict censorship of information that contradicts the present government propaganda? How long before those who make statements on the Internet that aren't "politically correct" will be allowed to continue to challenge propaganda?

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Done deal
Posted by: willymack on Jul 12, 2008 11:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We've been bamboozled and sold out It's getting so we can't trust ANYONE any more, our "leaders included. It appears we'll have to slide down the chute into the cesspool of serfdom and oppression before our people become angry enough to seize the country back from the crooks, thugs, and liars who brazenly and openly took it from us while we stood around with our thumbs up our arses. It won't be easy, folks and may well be impossible, but if we just let things happen, most of us will be slaves, or worse.

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» Vote Nader. Posted by: purplewarrior
Compare provisions in “Hitler’s Laws” with U.S. FISA AMENDMENTS ACT OF 2008
Posted by: Ross Wolf on Jul 12, 2008 12:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Note similar manner the Act, HR 6304 suspends the U.S. Constitution’s 4th Amendment Protections and Telecommunication Privacy for American Citizens.

THE FISA AMENDMENTS ACT OF 2008, H.R. 6304 EH may be found at:
http://thomas.loc.gov/

Below: Are Hitler's signed Discriminatory Laws of February 28, 1933.

ROBL. I 83

DECREE OF THE REICH PRESIDENT FOR THE PROTECTION OF THE PEOPLE AND STATE

In virtue of Section 48 (2) of the German Constitution, the following is decreed as a defensive measure against Communist acts of Violence, endangering the state:

Section 1
Sections 114, 115, 117, 118, 123, 124, and 153 of the Constitution of the German Reich are suspended until further notice. Thus, restrictions on personal liberty, on the right of free expression of opinion, including freedom of the press, on the right of assembly and the right of association, and violations of the privacy of postal, telegraphic, and telephonic communications, and warrants for house-searches, orders for confiscations as well as restrictions on property, are also permissible beyond the legal limits otherwise prescribed.

Section 2
If in a state the measures necessary for the restoration of public security and order are not taken, the Reich Government may temporarily take over the powers of the highest state authority.

Section 4
Whoever provokes, or appeals for or incites to the disobedience of the orders given out by the supreme state authorities or the authorities subject to then for the execution of this decree, or the orders given by the Reich Government according to Section 2, is punishable—insofar as the deed, is not covered by the decree with more severe punishment and with imprisonment of not less that one month, or with a fine from 150 up to 15,000 Reichsmarks. Who ever endangers human life by violating Section 1, is to be punished by sentence to a penitentiary, under mitigating circumstances with imprisonment of not less than six months and, when violation causes the death of a person, with death, under mitigating circumstances with a penitentiary sentence of not less that two years. In addition the sentence my include confiscation of property.
Whoever provokes an inciter to or act contrary to public welfare is to be punished with a penitentiary sentence, under mitigating circumstances, with imprisonment of not less than three months.

Section 5
The crimes which under the Criminal Code are punishable with penitentiary for life are to be punished with death: i.e., in Sections 81 (high treason), 229 (poisoning), 306 (arson), 311 (explosion), 312 (floods), 315, paragraph 2 (damage to railroad properties, 324 (general poisoning).

Insofar as a more severe punishment has not been previously provided for, the following are punishable with death or with life imprisonment or with imprisonment not to exceed 15 years:

1. Anyone who undertakes to kill the Reich President or a member or a commissioner of the Reich Government or of a state government, or provokes to such a killing, or agrees to commit it, or accepts such an offer, or conspires with another for such a murder;

2. Anyone who under Section 115 (2) of the Criminal Code (serious rioting) or of Section 125 (2) of the Criminal Code (serious disturbance of the peace) commits the act with arms or cooperates consciously and intentionally with an armed person;

3. Anyone who commits a kidnapping under Section 239 of the Criminal with the intention of making use of the kidnapped person as a hostage in the political struggle.

Section 6
This decree enters in force on the day of its promulgation.
Reich President
Reich Chancellor
Reich Minister of the Interior
Reich Minister of Justice

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Obama's a coward who doesn't deserve our vote
Posted by: texshelters on Jul 12, 2008 12:48 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If a candidate insist on voting Republican, I will put my vote elsewhere. If Obama won't defend the 4th Amendment, and he votes for a law that does nothing to protect us but everything to reduce our rights, why should we trust his Supreme Court choices.

He's a coward and corporatist. Even "smart" people buy into the fear. Or is he just a liar. Stupid, liar, you choose.

Tex Shelters

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A plan
Posted by: Grandma Crabby on Jul 12, 2008 1:06 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OK, here's a way we can throw them off....

Get on the phone and talk for hours about stuff like:
1. Your hemorrhoids & other digestive issues
2. Your bunions, corns and calluses on your poor aching, sore feet
3. Your overdue bills
4. The dog poop stains on your carpet
5. The bothersome weeds growing in the cracks in your driveway

We'll BORE the Mother F****** to death!

And I have already done my duty by speaking about EACH of the above topics long enough to make the spooks rue the day they decided to listen to this old bitch!

Luv,
Granny

VideoProductionTips = Learn Internet Video

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» RE: A plan Posted by: fanny666
» RE: A plan Posted by: Lauren
» RE: A plan Posted by: opmoc
» RE: A plan Posted by: jackyD
» RE: A plan Posted by: Stovo B
» RE: A plan Posted by: Lauren
» RE: A plan Posted by: opmoc
FISA backgrounder
Posted by: fanny666 on Jul 12, 2008 2:48 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From the Electronic Privacy Information Center, worth reading.

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Disgust is putting it mildly.
Posted by: Snowpuppy on Jul 12, 2008 6:08 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Learn to speak Arabic-they never have enough Arabic translators! ha ha

Honestly, it's time to move in or move out - these buttheads are serious about transforming our American democracy into a profitable, theo-fascist, environment-polluting police state.

Make a stand or leave the land. Uncle Sam lies dead in the sand. Captain America died in Abu Graib.

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FISA Problems
Posted by: Bob4232 on Jul 13, 2008 10:51 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As much as I am opposed to Bush's war and his related stuff like FISA I can't justify a "right" of journalists to talk to servicemen on ships or in the scene of current or very recent battles, etc. Such a right could compromise a commander's reasoning and actions to say nothing about stategy. Clearly, this is a wrong headed idea.

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SPEAK CLEARLY INTO THE ECHO CHAMBER
Posted by: caru on Jul 13, 2008 1:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
hey sweeties. do yall really think these buffons can ever really figure the complexity of nature as revealed in the human ....

JUST TELL THEM, JUST LEAD THEM, IF THEY ARE WATCHING, THEY ARE THE ONES NEEDING TO GET 'CRACKED', THEY ARE THE ONES NEEDING TO BE DIRECTED ....


they can never really know what is in our hearts or what embodies the real extent of being.

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.
Posted by: opmoc on Jul 13, 2008 6:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I Remain a Left Wing Capitalist And Completely Realise That The Lunatics Think They Are In Control

You Know These Wankers Who Work In The Biggest Most Powerful Banks In The World

Who Have Spent The Last 30 Years Just Gambling

And Suddenly They Find That They Are Seriously Negative

And That The Population Of The World Are Just Going To Print Money To Keep Them in Jobs

Get Used To It

YOU ARE FUCKING WORTHLESS - IN AN EXCEEDINGLY NEGATIVE WAY

Just

FUCK OFF AND DIE

Tony

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Where We Live The Biggest Current Cash Crop is Lavender
Posted by: opmoc on Jul 13, 2008 6:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And it is so completely amazingly BEAUTIFUL

We don't have to grow Lavender

But Lavender Is Completely Wonderful

And Where we live

We Have a Very Long Tradition of Growing Lavender

If The World Goes To Hell And All The Financial Systems Collapse

We Can Trade Our Lavender For Food

Because There Are Also Lots Of Farms

And We Live in ENGLAND

Where It Rains a Lot

And All THE PEOPLE KNOW

If We Think Some Cunt Thinks They Are Going to Destroy Our Way Of Life

We Will Destroy Any EVIL That Threatens Us

We are Just Growing Lavender

http://www.perfumemovie.com/

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If I were the one doing the monitoring..
Posted by: nap on Jul 16, 2008 2:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
then first I'd want freedom to monitor whoever I want. Then I tap into the whole traffic and set up a system of filters. Everything will be checked for some simple parameters: some content keywords, some addressee/sender keywords, whether it's encrypted. things that pass the first filter get indexed in a database and get processed for filter two. Things that pass filter two get stored whole. After a few filters to reduce the amount you get a set that is interesting enough for more expensive processing like trying to find out passwords and decrypt messages. The top level is manual checks, that's the most expensive. Before that you've automatically assembled a file from as many sources as you can find. That includes google, and searching the indexes of older messages that didn't have anything interesting at first.

So, in that system, are you being monitored? Well, the answer would be definitely yes, but the additional question would be, at what level?

How would the system be upset? If people start to add keywords or if they all start to encrypt their messages. Then the traffic becomes opaque. Or almost, there still would be addressees and senders.

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Mission Accomplished
Posted by: sicntired on Jul 16, 2008 9:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Looks like Bush's sign really did signify a victory.Over the American people.

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