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Losing Our Minds over Immigration

By Eric Haas, The Rockridge Institute. Posted December 5, 2007.


By repeating the phrase "illegal immigrants," the media and politicians have created a misleading framework to talk about immigration.
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On the issue of immigration, politicians and much of the mainstream media are playing with our minds. By repeating the phrase "illegal immigrants," they're creating a misleading stereotype. It's inaccurate. And, it's distracting us from the real issue -- economic exploitation of all low-wage workers in the United States.

The Republicans did it in their YouTube debate on CNN. In the first 30 minutes, the Republicans repeatedly used the term "illegal immigrant" and spent the time sparring over which of them could treat them more harshly. Were the painters who worked on Romney's house and the low-wage workers in Giuliani's New York City really such a grave threat to America?

CNN's John King used the term, too. And so did CNN's Wolf Blitzer and Campbell Brown in the most recent Democratic debate in Las Vegas. And, some of the Democratic candidates also used it, though Kucinich specifically refused ("There are no illegal human beings"). But he's in the minority. The term is everywhere in the press. You can find it in the Washington Post and in the New York Times, as well as the doubly derogatory term "illegal alien" in the Washington Times. They've all got "illegal" on the brain.

The repeated use of the term "illegal immigrants" is leading to all sorts of policies created to stop them. Many of them were repeated in the debates. More border fences. Prohibiting driver's licenses. Some want to stop their kids from attending neighborhood elementary schools.

But the phrase "illegal immigrant" is misleading. There's a grain of truth, but the emphasis is only selectively applied -- it's misapplied -- we don't call speeders "illegal drivers" or people who jaywalk "illegals." And that selective application to immigrants is harmful. As Lawrence Downes wrote in a New York Times op-ed:

There is no way out of that trap. It's the crime you can't make amends for. Nothing short of deportation will free you from it, such is the mood of the country today. And that is a problem.

There sure is a problem. So much so that the National Association of Hispanic Journalists won't use it. They recommend using "undocumented" instead. That's a start.

Branding people with the Scarlet "I" creates a fearful stigma. The vast majority of immigrants, whatever their legal status, are law-abiding members of society. Yet, the "illegal" description is so pervasive that it has us thinking about punishment and revenge, instead of solutions to the real problem -- the economic exploitation of people, both immigrant and native-born.

How did that happen?

In part, it's all in our heads; it's how our minds work. To understand the world, we unconsciously create categories of things. We understand these categories by, again unconsciously, creating central examples that represent how we envision the basic properties of the group.

Think of a bird, for example. What first pops into your mind? Most likely something akin to a sparrow, maybe a robin. It's unlikely that your unconscious, initial image will be an ostrich or a penguin. Or even a duck or an eagle. These are all birds, but they are not what we instinctively envision as the typical bird. In fact, our unconscious category example need not be the most common bird or even an actual bird at all. Nevertheless, the typical example you have in your mind allows you to organize, understand and apply what you experience about birds.


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Eric Haas is a senior fellow at the Rockridge Institute.

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Excellent article by Mr Haas
Posted by: talkville on Dec 5, 2007 12:20 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Krafft-Ebing in the 19th century made mention of the 'doctrine of association' in reference to psychological investigations. Repetition especially works in congealing disparate events, acts, words, concepts, etc. into an organized perception or conception of reality.

I think of Reagan's conceptions of "Linkage", and the practice of communication via "talking points" used almost religiously by Republicans over the last couple of decades. Immigration issues are no different, and the Right has staked the field. This must be contested.

Associations, analogies and comparisons repetitively specified in a precise way constitute a major factor in propaganda campaigns. This article alerts us to such techniques and is extremely salutary.

Advertising and PR are immense industries these days, and they're not just selling shoes and appliances. Caveat Emptor! The first colony is the individual's mind.

Thanks for the article and to Mr Haas; a service to free peoples everywhere.

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Let us all move away from the euphemisms, PLEASE!
Posted by: Johnny Chingas on Dec 5, 2007 12:31 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dennis Kucinich was right; there are no illegal human beings. Every time we use the phrase "undocumented worker", however, we betray a sense that we're trying to shift the focus of the debate. Can we not win the debate on their own terms? Are our arguments not valid enough that we have to fudge the lingo in order to win the public over? Instead of pretending they're not illegal, why not fight for their legality? We should proudly proclaim amnesty for those who want to work shitty jobs, support their families, and live in peace with the rest of America. Instead of using meaningless euphemisms, let's prove the xenophobic right-wing wrong on their own terms.

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» 'Refugees' Posted by: war_on_tara
Ya! What is the media thinking...
Posted by: YogiBear on Dec 5, 2007 1:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...by using the term "illegal alien" the INS/ICE has had in use for decades, or a close derivative?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

4.1
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Dec 5, 2007 3:08 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article highlights the typical American response to any problem: find a little guy to kick around, instead of addressing the real source of the problem.

I was listening to NPR the other day. It was an interview of some bureaucrat from immigration enforcement. She was bragging about how they've rounded up all these poor saps who were working at some company, and how devious and dishonest they were for forging their papers and so on. When the interviewer asked her if the company who hired them was busted, she said no, and went into some BS about how they're looking into it.

Does anyone really think the agribusinesses, meat packing companies and others are ever going to let the Republicans or anyone else cut off their source of cheap labor? Until they can send farmland overseas...

I suppose politicians can appease their redneck supporters by talking about all the mean things they'll do to Pedro and his family. But even some NPR geeks seem to have some faith in the idea that we can address the immigration "problem" on the supply side, as if there aren't a zillion more Pedros with nothing to lose by leaving their home countries in search of a survival wage, and isn't a system willing to look the other way while enough get through to drive down labor costs.

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» I guarantee that... Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» it's not either/or Posted by: war_on_tara
The real problem
Posted by: dmaddox on Dec 5, 2007 3:40 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of us who are upset about illegal immigration are not really all that upset about Mexicans coming into the country to earn a living. Personally, I'd support a program to give every living Mexican a work permit, as long as each one of them showed that permit when they crossed the border.

But the real problem with the lack of security at our borders isn't Jose the Tomato Picker. The real problem is Mohammed the Bomb Maker. If Jose can walk across the river and disappear into the mass of American population, so can Mohammed. For all we know, he's already here. The least we can do is keep his buddies from joining him.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: The real problem Posted by: rhbee
» RE: The real problem Posted by: mattehood
» RE: The real problem Posted by: Deep
» RE: The real problem Posted by: Axiom69
» RE: The real problem Posted by: mattehood
» RE: The real problem Posted by: dbkchi
» Well stated! Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: The real problem Posted by: JOHN L.
Insane as it may be
Posted by: rhbee on Dec 5, 2007 6:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Hass has hit the problem exactly on the head. But it isn't just the immigration policy that we need to view through this lense. Take a listen to the language that describes our drug policies, our healthcare solutions, our political choices, or education system plans. We take sides. We try to win the arguement. We get nowhere. Trapped in language that is meant to keep us trapped, keep one side or the other still in power, all of us still in fear.

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Not left, not right, common sense
Posted by: Axiom69 on Dec 5, 2007 6:08 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is this so difficult for politicians? The answer is so obvious. Build a fence of both physical and electronic barriers to protect the border and overhaul the process for workers coming here at the same time. Make it cheaper and safer for the workers to come here legally and they won't be risking their lives trying to sneak accross. The government will just have to estimate how many currently come here illegally each year then make that many work permits available. Why is this so hard? That way the people that worry about terrorists will have their fence and those that worry about the workers will have them documented and paying taxes without supressing wages. Those that worry about the immigrants safety will have a safe and legal way for them to enter the country. Seems like a no brainer to me. But what do I know, I'm just a democracy hating facist troll.

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sorry eric....
Posted by: pacto on Dec 5, 2007 6:09 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don`t know why its soo important to defend the people who are breaching the border with impunity and literaly invading the USA.I know first hand the border, the laws, the fabric of the USA mean nothing to these people, they just want to absorb the USA and live by their own rules.to them they are entitled to go into the country and use whatever they need of the society,and they dont care what they have to do to protect the latino pride. they are always right and if anyone questions them they cry victim.

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» RE: sorry eric.... Posted by: veloce09
» That was pretty bigoted Posted by: WhuThe?!?
a couple of questions--
Posted by: zooeyhall on Dec 5, 2007 6:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is Mexico so eager to literally push these people north and out of the country?

What happens to people who enter MEXICO illegally?

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» RE: Oh the good ole days!!!! Posted by: MeridaLady
Address the Fears
Posted by: Southern Gal on Dec 5, 2007 7:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where are the data and the facts that support illegal immigration? There needs to be a case made to the American people that having people in this country who haven't gone through the legal immigration process, who are driving wages down because businesses want the cheapest labor that they can hire, who are utilizing services paid for by the American taxpayer, and who are stretching the capacity of our infrastructure such as schools, health services, social services, and housing to the breaking point are providing advantages that over rule the disadvantages. Make a solid case that this country should not protect its borders, that there are no terrorists who come through with the other people coming into this country with no legal immigration status and you might change some minds. What the public understands is that there are 12 - 20 million people in this country illegally and that those numbers will keep growing. The economy is not as solid as the administration would like for US citizens to believe and people are concerned about being able to support their families and to survive. These are troubled times and as the financial and living conditions of US citizens continue to decline, there will continue to be backlash against people who come into this country illegally. They will be perceived as a financial threat. Add to the financial implications the opportunities for terrorists to come to this country and you find growing fear among US citizens. Simply framing the issues with more positive language is not enough. Provide the proof that this country will benefit financially and that citizens will be safer from terrorism and you may be able to convince people to support illegal immigration.

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Criminals did NOT build America
Posted by: DrColes on Dec 5, 2007 7:53 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Criminals did NOT build America; Citizens and LEGAL immigrants built it. Illegal Aliens and Immigration is NOT the same thing. 80% of the American people want an end to anarchy! This is NOT a Democrat, Republican, Independent issue. It's an American Issue.

Illegal aliens are criminals, those who hire them are criminals and those who aid-and-abet them are criminals.

Illegal aliens in America have NO rights. We are required by law to arrest and prosecute, deport them. (Title 8 U.S. Code) To report illegal aliens call the DHS National Hotline 1 866 DHS 2ICE. (1-866-347-2523)

No, matter your political party affiliation, and setting aside your thoughts on issues. We all need to remember what it is to be an American Citizen. We need to make sure our elected representatives obey their Oath of Office and keep their Oath of Allegiance. See http://tinyurl.com/2znnvl Know whom you are voting for.

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Help!
Posted by: johngary on Dec 5, 2007 8:28 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please, please will someone rescue us from Lou Dobbs?!

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» Let's deport him Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Help!....why? Posted by: donl51
» RE: Help! Posted by: Doubtom
more nonsense from the language police
Posted by: gerdhansel on Dec 5, 2007 8:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here we go again with the idea that changing the language changes minds. Orwell called this nonsense “newspeak” in 1984.

So we change “janitor” to “sanitation engineer,” “WAC” to “enlisted females,” “black” to “African American,” “fat” to “heavy,” and labor under the illusion that we’re accomplishing something.

Study the history of language, and you’ll learn that most “nasty” words started out as euphemisms. The problem is not the words we use to describe things. The problem is how we perceive the thing itself.

Union workers call those who cross the picket lines “scabs” because of the correct perception that these people are betraying their fellow workers. The word “scab” expresses deep feelings of rage and betrayal.

“Illegal immigrants” or “illegal aliens” or “wetbacks” are words that express the same feelings of rage and betrayal as “scabs.” Working-class Americans perceive that people who cross union picket lines are pawns in management’s scheme to keep wages and benefits low, to literally take food out of their children’s mouths. They take their frustrations out on these “scabs,” even though they know that the “scabs” are only trying to feed their families too.

“Illegal immigrants” are literally “scabs” from other countries who are exploited by our corporate masters for the express purpose of depressing wages and benefits for all. This is how working-class Americans perceive these foreign workers. Most are keenly aware of how management treats these foreign workers, but feel that compassion for such people is a luxury they can’t afford.

Manipulating the language in hopes of changing minds is what Madison Avenue does to make us buy things we don’t need; it’s what politicians do to drag their reluctant populations into wars and policies that feed the rich and starve everybody else. It’s what people like Karl Rove and James Carville do for a living.

It’s called propaganda.

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Manipulation
Posted by: Bettybb on Dec 5, 2007 8:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The correct term is illegal alien.
And just as you can have an illegal doctor or an illegal lawyer, you can have an illegal alien. It connotes the lack of legal authority.

All those trying to change it to " undocumented immigrant" are the manipuators. I would expect them to call bank robbers unauthorized withdrawal specialists.

The anti legal immigrant, pro illegal alien crowd is also trying to make the criminals should like real " immigrants " when they are not.

To one post about whether it makes all that much difference if we have illegals here. It sure does. Are you ready to triple your taxes to pay for the unfunded entitlements should they get amnesty? Are you ready to face the possible bankruptcy of the USA? That is what economists are talking about.

With immigrantion you must pick the best and brightest who add more to the econony than they take out, then you can have some low skilled workers. Otherwise you are headed for insolvency.

YOu note that lately the Dems have all been talking about amnesty for some? They are very indirect about it, but the economists clued them in that they would not do the whole amnesty thing.

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» RE: Manipulation Posted by: Joshua Holland
Brainwashed already!
Posted by: allUneedislove on Dec 5, 2007 10:07 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of you posting here are already brainwashed and I have so little hope left in me.

WHY ARE YOU SO AFRAID? Because you have been trained to be afraid. WHO ARE YOU AFRAID OF? Whoever they tell you to be afraid of. WHAT EXCUSES DO YOU USE FOR YOUR FEAR? They're gonna take my jobs, overload our welfare system, build bombs, be petty and serious criminals, change our culture, change our language.

Face it. You are bigoted.

WHO SHOULD YOU REALLY BE AFRAID OF???? This fascist corporatocracy that has brainwashed you so thoroughly. But you are too far gone to see. The military industrial complex is spending all your money and wreaking total havoc on all of earth's peoples and the environment. They are the thieves, the criminals, and should be the focus of all your fears and anger.

When you are free of your prejudice and fear, you will agree with Dennis Kucinich. No human is illegal.

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» RE: Brainwashed already! Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: Brainwashed already! Posted by: allUneedislove
» RE: Brainwashed already! Posted by: cmaciain
» You should visit Ellis Island Posted by: war_on_tara
» Things have changed... Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Brainwashed already! Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: Brainwashed already! Posted by: Axiom69
» RE: Brainwashed already! Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: Brainwashed already! Posted by: Bettybb
» What should we do? Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Brainwashed already! Posted by: donl51
» RE: Brainwashed already! Posted by: desidid
You say potato and I say tators
Posted by: solrev on Dec 5, 2007 10:37 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just do not understand this whole alienation with aliens. Any human being that would not jump a boarder for a better life for themselves and their family isn’t worth spit in my book. These illegal aliens are probably the best people living in this land. Why do you blame them for what the people you voted for have done? They are not taking any thing from you; they are just taking what you have let slide away. If there were any Americans left we would not only give them amnesty we would make sure they were being paid the minimum wage. What you need to do is pass some more laws to hide behind. However they will not protect you any more than the fences you build. You do not need protection from them you need protection from yourselves.

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» Good post! Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Very well stated Posted by: MeridaLady
hardparts
Posted by: hardparts on Dec 5, 2007 10:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These people are in this country illegally. Therefore they are illegal aliens.
This needs to be fixed. It doesn't mean deporting them, or putting up fences or walls. We need to acknowledge there is a need for these people. Create laws for guest workers. Establish guidelines for the amount of time a worker may remain in the country, and then apply for readmission. Make employers, who are benefiting from the labor responsible for taxes, healthcare and housing, not the government. Children born here are not automatic citizens, however they may have dual citizen status, and given the same rights as any citizen upon reaching majority age. They may then enter and leave the country as they wish. Any other ideas out there?

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» Yes Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Yes Posted by: drone
» Thanks, so... Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Thanks, so... Posted by: drone
» Yep Posted by: WhuThe?!?
The problems are, in order:
Posted by: hurricane hugo on Dec 5, 2007 11:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) NAFTA, which allowed big US agribusiness to dump produce into the Mexican market cheaper than the Mexican farmers could grow it, therefore creating huge unemployment in the Mexican countryside. Guess where they went?

2) failure to jail employers of illegal aliens.

The. End.

plur

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Attitude Adjustment
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Dec 5, 2007 11:18 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First of, this was an excellent article on a serious social problem America has, because an issue such as this appeals to our emotions more than pure reasoning. But some would not rather "reason" with a group of people we call "illegal."
When that occurs, we call or rely on laws to solve the problem, hoping it will relieve us of this nagging headache. A law is only effective IF it reduces the causes of a social problem, like some crimes.
A human will always move to find a better life somewhere, and they may not research the intended destination. For example, we say I'm moving to City A, B, C, X or Y or state A, B, or C, or country H, I, J or K without knowing some of its laws. That's how it goes. Some may have prior knowledge of their new resdience, but mostly relcoation is a game of chance.
If an opportunity rises as we see played out on our southern border, then they will take it, risks notwithstanding the dangers of crossing an open and unforgiving desert.
Can we change our way of looking at humans? Just what constitutes an illegality? The color of one's skin? His lingua franca? The strong smell of foreign cuisine? Or is it his dress and customs?
A border is an artificial and arbitrary line of map. And it reflects an attitude on the dominant culture of a country or place.
And if someone doesn't fit into the dominant culture or seen as an outsider, then that person is labeled an "illegal".
What is needed is an attitude adjustment on the way we think about our fellow human. And we all make mistakes. We're all in this together.

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» RE: Attitude Adjustment Posted by: allUneedislove
I struggle with this one.
Posted by: WhuThe?!? on Dec 5, 2007 11:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've spent 3 years of my life living in South America, speak fluent Spanish, have legal and illegal Hispanic friends, and their culture is a big part of my life. However, I am still a Unitedstatesian, and just like everybody, legal or illegal, am expected to follow our laws.

If somebody connects the term 'illegal alien' with criminals who commit crimes other than entering a country illegally, that’s their problem. I agree that most, other than sneaking in to a country illegally and using somebody else’s ID to work, are law-abiding. However, the truth remains that they are illegal aliens; whether they entered the country out of desperation to feed their families or not, the term is accurate.

We have laws that have not been enforced that require those entering our country to obtain a visa; those that break our laws and do not follow this procedure are illegal aliens and according to our laws should be deported. We wouldn’t be in this mess if they would have enforced the laws in the first place. The news is out that our laws are a joke, and those south of the border have heard this and are coming in illegally by the millions. They even amass in the streets in front of ‘la migra’ and the police demanding citizenship, and they, legally, have no right to even be here. If we needed extra labor, we should have extended labor visas to these people, and offered those here legally a path to citizenship once we saw that we needed their help on a long-term basis. I think any country, for the safety of their citizenry, need to know who is coming and going. We have failed miserably and now we are in a horrible predicament.

‘Illegal alien’ only insinuates illegal as far as residence. It even seems a soft term to me, because most illegal aliens either illegally work tax-free under the table, or use other people’s social security IDs so they can work with some form of legitimacy. The Federal governments have even accommodated this form of identity theft; when the names don’t match their SS #s on their tax forms the IRS amazingly provide them ‘TIN’ numbers so they can fill out tax forms. On the surface this doesn’t seem like a big deal, but many use these same SS #s to take out loans. When there is a default and the person has disappeared, guess who becomes responsible?

Our neighbors to the south have been thoroughly exploited and just want to feed their families. Most aren’t criminals so to speak, but people that are very desperate and are breaking unenforced laws just to survive. The best thing we can do is change our economic policies and start helping these people. That is another topic. In the meantime, it appears a solution to make all the illegals with good records legal, but doesn’t that send out the message that anybody can illegally come into our country, sneak around a while on a false ID, and become legal later? Wouldn’t amnesty send the message that our laws are just a joke?!? Wouldn’t that be a bad precedent? On the other hand, it seems cruel as hell that we have given all these conflicting messages then thrown them back out to their own demise?!?

This certainly is not a black and white issue, but I think the best solution would be amnesty for law-abiding (excuse the oxymoron) illegals, followed by making it very clear that illegal entry into this country will no longer be tolerated, just as it never should have. We need to make it clear that our laws are no longer a joke. Any illegal alien, after the amnesty, should be promptly deported, and anybody employing them should be strictly punished. Then, we should start helping our Hispanic neighbors instead of exploiting them, so they don’t feel they need to escape their country just to feed their families. We also need to tear down that damned wall. And if we have the need of extra labor in our country, we need to offer work visas.

Just my opinion.

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» Unitedstatesian??? Posted by: madaha
» I hear ya Posted by: madaha
» Oh, also... Posted by: WhuThe?!?
Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
» RE: Oh, also... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» I didn't know that, but Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» You're right Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: You're right Posted by: drone
Work at Home
Posted by: Dellmae on Dec 5, 2007 11:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We need to treat the situation of Mexican laborers coming north in a more dignified and responsible way. We want their labor.
Why have we not built offices in strategic locations on the border to assist them in coming to the U.S.A. to work? Chances are that if we were attentive to this the problem would be lessened. Build many office locations so they can register, be photographed, fingerprinted, examine for T.B., emergency information obtained,and do a legal search for crime, and then given identification numbers and information where the work is.
We have not made any effort to handle this situation. They need work. They want to work. We need their labor. We must want them to work or they would not find employment.
Who are we blaming? We need to make it possible for them to come here legally and do so in a dignified, sensible way. Of course, this would mean a committed attitude on the part of our government and our peoples.
It seems it is cheaper and more convenient to abuse, misuse and misinform ourselves. Do nothing. Let our citizens rant.

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» I wonder... Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Work at Home Posted by: Doubtom
No person is illegal - a nice thought.
Posted by: JoeZ on Dec 5, 2007 12:06 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lets say that a person goes to a foreign country and overstays his/her visa. Maybe a European country like Sweeden or France. This person gets a job, has a family, etc., and does nothing criminal. One day the authorities catch up with person, and in their civilized, European way, deport this person out of the country.
This is what would happen in any country in the world, with more or less speed and decorum in the process of the deportation. Why would it be any different in the US?
As progressive people, we can't jump to the defense of illegal aliens just because certain Republicans spout jingoistic rhetoric against them.
Rather than engage in this debate, which is framed by the most reactionary elements, the debate has to be changed to be about NAFTA and globalization, which has created the economic conditions that force people to emigrate illegally.

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Framing the Framer
Posted by: outrider on Dec 5, 2007 3:08 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those who are attacking the major premise of this article would be wordless if they were not using frames rather than facts to justify their arguments.

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» RE: Framing the Framer Posted by: talkville
Thanks for the comments
Posted by: emhaas on Dec 5, 2007 4:42 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are many great issues brought up in these comments and I'd like to comment back on a few.

The bottom line issue to me is the protection of workers--that is, a living wage, safe working conditions, and health care for all. So, what concerns me about the "illegal immigrant" debate is that it distracts us from that real problems and solutions. It distracts us by making us think we can solve the larger problem--economic security--by getting rid of "those illegals." It's not going to happen because illegal immigration is a symptom, not the disease itself. For example, we could have a legal guest worker program for all the current "illegals" and we would still have the same economic exploitation of both the foreign workers and those born in the U.S. in comparable fields--it would just be legalized. Our current exceptions in labor laws for agricultural workers are prime examples.

By only talking about "illegal immigration"--whether more compassionately or more punitively--still misses the larger point: we should be discussing how to fix the problems associated with worker exploitation, which simply deporting all the "illegal immigrants" or making them all legal residents will never do in and of themselves.

Eric Haas
Rockridge Institute

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» What if? Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: What if? Posted by: donl51
» Have mercy! Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» See Solrev's post: Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Thanks for the comments Posted by: Southern Gal
» RE: Thanks for the comments Posted by: talkville
» RE: Thanks for the comments Posted by: desidid
Immigration: the crack and McDonalds of social policy
Posted by: Bobsays on Dec 5, 2007 7:01 PM   
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Mmmm, mmm - I gotta get me some quick labor - mm, mm. When a country turns only to immigration to meet its employment needs, then there is something wrong. Because, hell, you can easily find lots of people who are either unemployed, poor or homeless who could do with a little training to get a job within your country.

But it is much easier to just drive by the ol immigration take-away and get me some Filipinos, or maybe some Mexicans. Or maybe a giant pipe filled with some Nigerians, or Bangladeshis. Mmm, mmm!

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Feh--Control the Language
Posted by: apophenia_monkey on Dec 5, 2007 7:39 PM   
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