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MediaCulture

Black Men, Asian Women

By Rinku Sen, ColorLines. Posted September 20, 2006.


The hype about interracial television couples is that Americans have moved so far past race they don't even notice.
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As a South Asian woman with a long and pluralistic dating history, I am amazed these days to see two couples comprised of Asian women and Black men every week. The sugary romance between the excessively noble characters played by Parminder Nagra and Shafiq Atkins on ER follows the much hotter one between Ming Na Wen and Mekhi Phifer that ended two seasons ago. Grey's Anatomy features Sandra Oh in an up-and -down relationship with Isaiah Washington.

What accounts for such interest? It's as though these couples have been pouring out of medical schools and producers decided to capture the trend.

The representations tread the line between cultural authenticity, sometimes considered stereotype, and colorblindness. The women exhibit some level of conflict with their cultures and are slightly neurotic: Ming Na dreaded telling her immigrant parents that she was having a baby out of wedlock; Nagra quit her job in a bout of rebellion against family expectation to work as a convenience store clerk. The men are dangerous but tender. Phifer grew up without a father and has a temper; Gallant went off to serve in Iraq. I did laugh at the effort to bridge cultures, though, when Nagra's character got married wearing a white sari. White is the Hindu color of mourning.

The hype about interracial television couples is that Americans have moved so far past race they don't even notice. "Honestly, we really don't even talk about it or consider that it's an interracial couple,"said ER's Executive Producer David Zabel in an interview with Diversity Inc. He claims that a quick look at MTV proves that younger people don't draw those lines.

Web-surfing indicates that younger people do indeed draw those lines, at least for purposes of fulfilling their attractions. On Tribe NY, I found a group for Asian women who love Black men, and on Blasian.com I found Black men who love Asian women. The website African and Asian American Unity has tools for getting to know the other culture that include instructions on how to keep a bonsai, cook Chinese greens and participate in Kwanzaa. It also has a highly insightful advice column, "Ask Mike," in which a bald, slim, goateed Black man will answer your romantic questions at great length for free. The vast majority of questions were from people under 25 wanting to know how they could find, keep or correct their Black or Asian partner.

An Analysis of Desire

While the number of such actual couples remains small (an unknown but undoubtedly tiny portion of the 2 percent of U.S. residents in interracial marriages), there does appear to be a dramatic growth among daters in particular places.

Particular neighborhoods in Brooklyn and Los Angeles seem to have become havens for Black men seeking Asian women and vice versa. While sitting on her stoop in Ft. Greene, Brooklyn, a Japanese friend was approached by an Asian woman walking with her baby stroller. The woman asked whether my friend had any kids. She was searching for potential members of a group for kids with a Black father and Asian mother.

What accounts for the sudden attraction? Darrell Hamamoto, professor of Asian American studies at the University of California-Davis, believes it is rooted in prevailing stereotypes stemming from Black men's military experiences in Asia. Hamamoto gained some notoriety as the producer of a pornographic film featuring Asian sex, his effort to complicate and abandon the stereotypes of oversexed Asian women and impotent Asian men. He asserts that the U.S. military draws large numbers of Black men looking for a ladder to the middle class, whose status changes when they go abroad. These men see Asian women as subjects of the American--and, by implication, their own--empire.

"This trend is rooted with American colonialism and occupation. Material and historical forces shape these relationships,"said Hamamoto. "You have three, four, five generations of African-American men who have served oversees in Asia, whose experience with Asian women has been pretty intense in a foreign land where they are treated not as subordinate people but as superior Americans."

Marlon Ross, professor of English and African American Studies at the University of Virginia, raised a methodological question about this theory. "I'm not sure that African-American men have been involved in sexual relationships with Asian women in that context any more than white men; it's just that when African-American men are doing it, it gets noticed more,"said Ross. That doesn't mean, however, that stereotypes don't come into play. "Our desires are fashioned by consumption, by the media and by commerce in very deep-seated ways that we may not even recognize. That fashioning of what is desirable, certainly a large part of it is racially defined," he added.


Digg!

Rinku Sen is the publisher of ColorLines magazine and communications director of the Applied Research Center (ARC).

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senseless sexual speculation
Posted by: edith on Sep 20, 2006 12:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is all TV can portray since the home of reality TV in fact has little to do with reality. America is more segregated today for a host of reasons, intentional or not, than it was in 1954, if you use measures like mutiracial neighborhoods or schools.
African American women are not exactly ecstatic about African American men, who bring enough problems to the "table", dating non-African American women. Needless to say, our brave TV networks don't even go near the issue of black male gayness which the African American Community has just begun to recognize without hurling Biblical curses down upon any black male or female brave or foolish enough to be open about their secual choice.

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don't
Posted by: rsaxto on Sep 20, 2006 1:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't watch TV sitcruds and I really don't care what happens in them. In real life, though, I think Edith is closer to the truth: America is still very much segregated racially for the most part.

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tbalx
Posted by: tbalx on Sep 20, 2006 5:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't think so. It is going to take much more than television programs to make a statement that America has gone so far past caring about race.
The only reason it's not being opposed is because it's two minority races, in the US, who are hooking up. The power race couldn't care less what minorites do.
Where is the programming that touts black/white couples? There aren't any prime time ones because the networks won't do it.

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» RE: tbalx Posted by: therabshakeh
Sociobabble/Psycobabble
Posted by: NoPCZone on Sep 20, 2006 6:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Date who you want. Love Who you want.

It's really discouraging to believe that in 206 we are still dealing with this kind of sh*t.

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» RE: Sociobabble/Psycobabble Posted by: luzmejor
Queen
Posted by: haleema on Sep 20, 2006 7:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How about a Black Man and a Black Woman...That would really work for me...How about Ms. Rhimes is a sister who chose a Black man/Asian woman relationship opposed to Black to Black...I believe there is such a level of fear out there in Hollywood and the world...that they just can't see us in a positive and loving, respectful and nurturing light...It truly bothers me to see any other race with Black except Black on TV...If our presence were balanced I know I would feel better about it..In reality...It's your business...and I say go for it...However for me, I love Black men and they just happen to be my preference...Peace

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» RE: Queen Posted by: tbalx
Theotis
Posted by: Theotis on Sep 20, 2006 7:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I found professor Hamamoto's thinking to be very shallow and stereotypically Japanese. I am a 49 year old African-American man and my wife is a Chinese from Taiwan. I met my wife in a tea shop in Taiwan and my attraction to her had nothing at all to do with 'submissiveness'. In fact, my wife is anything but submissive. As I believe it is women who choose men, perhaps Mr. Hamamoto should reconsider whether supossedly 'submissive' Asian women are simply asserting their right to freely choose their mates. As for African-American men, I believe we usually choose women we are attracted to who are living in proximity to us. I believe this is typical of all men, not simply African-American men. As for African-American women choosing Asian men, one only has to look back in American history to the time when American immigration kept Chinese women from entering the US and only allowed Chinese men in. These Chinese men took African-American wives. There is an article on it at ColorQworld.

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» RE: Theotis Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: Theotis Posted by: ric2
» RE: Theotis Posted by: ric2
» RE: ric2 Posted by: anotheropinion
» RE: ric2 Posted by: fork
» RE: ric2 Posted by: ric2
» RE: Theotis Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: Theotis Posted by: ric2
» or Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: or Posted by: ezilla
» RE: or Posted by: ric2
» RE: ric2 Posted by: anotheropinion
» RE: Theotis Posted by: ezilla
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
Posted by: Pocahontas on Sep 20, 2006 9:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"America's desirability scale," interesting concept. And this "desirability scale" is determined and measured by who??

A white New Jersy type man visited my reservation a few years ago. While we were discussing why Native American musicians, actors, and actresses have trouble breaking through to good jobs in their respective professions; this homely, short, nerdy white man said one of the problems is that Native American woman aren't considered beautiful.

When I told a few other people in my community what this guy said, they were as surprised, shocked, and indignant as I was when I first heard that.

Our view and our "scale of judgement" is directed by the men in power who show us their preferences. They don't reflect what each individual finds beautiful or attractive.

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Peddling soap opera love/sex keeps it safe to talk about.
Posted by: Sojourner on Sep 20, 2006 9:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Personal attraction is based on appearances, and those are mostly nothing more than fashion statements. Since our culture peddles fashion in order to replace the absence of a sense of identity (why else would people allow some designer to plaster its name on their clothing so that they become walking billboards?), and while TV represents the worst of who we are, it does offer something other than pets and cars that's safe to talk about in social situations.

The visual media do not, or rarely, almost never, lead. They follow, because they need to attract corporate sponsors, and all sponsors do is sell whatever it is they peddle. That is, media peddles--no more, no less. To treat it as art shows how confused our perception of art is.

One attraction of the poets in pop music is that they can squeeze into the lyrics some honest insight into their genuine experiences, because the music does the selling. Likewise with film. (Ever wonder what Hollywood actors, whose roles now amount to little more than voice-over for the special effects, think of themselves as artists? Blah.)

Recently AlterNet gave us a beautiful piece by a Central American adopted by a white family as a baby on his experiences growing up. My thanks go out to the pioneers who shatter the whole stupid notion of "race." "Until the color of a man's skin is of no more significance than the color of his eyes, we shall not know peace."

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WHERE is asian man in this?
Posted by: ric2 on Sep 20, 2006 10:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Again American has shun asian male from their media

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Desirability Scale?
Posted by: the qsq on Sep 20, 2006 10:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article is weak and putting Black women at the bottom of the desirability scale is just ridiculous. Observe what's really seen as desirable and you'd rethink your "scale." Are Asian women really high on this scale or are many of them stereotyped because they (or their families) come from countries that are popular for the sex tourism industries? Get real!!

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» RE: Desirability Scale? Posted by: ric2
Outside the U.S. many black women marry asian men.
Posted by: anna33 on Sep 20, 2006 11:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The writer should have done some real research rather than watch television. There was an influx of asian men into the english speaking Caribbean countries soon after the communist regime took over in China. Almost all of these men came without wives/families and in an effort to move on with their lives as immigrants in a foreign land often married black women since the local whites would have nothing to do with them. These couples made up as much as 5% and 2% of the populations in Trinidad and Jamaica respectively.

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Absurd
Posted by: anotheropinion on Sep 20, 2006 12:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems to me that almost everything written in the article contradicts the tag line right below the title!

Why focus on black men and Asian women? There are dozens of different combinations of ethnicities dating each other. Why focus on just one? It seems a bit ridiculous.

I've read this article three times and still don't see what purpose it serves, other than to PROMOTE stereotypes.

What a strange article... Where has the Quality Control Department disappeared to at AlterNet??

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» RE: Absurd Posted by: Jayzer
» RE: Absurd Posted by: wharton
And another thing...
Posted by: anotheropinion on Sep 20, 2006 12:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Everything written about African Americans being seen as "superior Americans" in Asia is entirely bogus.
I lived in Taiwan and Vietnam for a year each and traveled around other places in Asia a fair amount. Trust me, people of African descent are seen as ANYTHING BUT superior. Several friends of mine had a terrible time trying to find work, not to mention finding a date. That's not to say it's impossible for an African person to find a "black sheep" to date, but they are few and far between. Chances are the Asian girls have completely cut off all ties with their family for dating them, or they have kept it a secret.

Do your homework Miss Sen.

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» RE: And another thing... Posted by: rinkusen
» RE: And another thing... Posted by: anotheropinion
» RE: And another thing... Posted by: Hippington IV
» RE: And another thing... Posted by: Aussie Kim
Live and Let Live
Posted by: Seyazou on Sep 20, 2006 2:58 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here in NYC, I've noticed over the past few years more and more Black/Asian couples, specifically Black men and Asian women. I suspect the majority are Japanese, and while some may be results of servicemen returning home with Japanese (or more likely Okinawan) girlfriends or wives, I think some now are Japanese ex-pats who are living in NYC.

What ever their respective backgrounds may be, if they love each other on aly lever, I'd say leave them be. We may look, stare, criticize (personally I don't), but that's not going to change the way those two individuals see each other. It's all too easy to fall back into crude racial stereotypes when we see any interracial couple, but we really need to move beyond that. Any population where you have two or more different racial/ethnic/religious groups living side-by-side, interrelations are inevitable.

Given the history of American overseas military presence throughout the world, we no longer look twice when we see white servicemen (and now servicewomen) coming back with partners who are natives of the countries the service people were posted in. It should be no surpise that you have black service personnel coming back with Asian or European partners.

While a proud black man, I'm not an angry Black man. I say we need to stop wasting our time and energy tryin to hate on other couples just because their skin is a different color, or their facial features different. I mean so what! If they're feeling each other - let 'em be. There's already more than enough hate in the world. We need all the love we can get.

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Ms. Sen has made some critical errors in her article...
Posted by: NYC Viktor on Sep 20, 2006 11:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The portrayal of black men and asian women on some television programs means nothing for racial understanding in the United States. On the contrary, Ms. Sen fails to recognize that whether she sees it or not, America has a racial hierarchy. Whites occupy the top post (regardless of heritage), followed by Asians, and then Hispanics (darker skin colors) and African Americans. By having Asian women dating Black men on these television programs, white producers are essentially trying to make Asian men look sexually and economically feeble when in reality Asian men make more then even white men per capita and have high rates of marriage and low rates of divorce.

If these white producers really cared about portraying racial reality in America, then show Asian women with white men, which is commonplace, or Asian men with white women, which is becoming more common, or white men with a host of races, which has been common for quite some time. Television, Ms. Sen, is not reality, and therefore, cannot be used as any basis for the analysis of race relations in the United States. Just because you and a few of your Indian girlfriends have dated black men, or that it is shown on some shows on TV, does not mean it is a trend. Asian women are most likely to marry within their race or to a white man, and are unlikely to even interact with a black male in a professional setting. Ms. Sen is obviously mistaking her own experiences and those of some television programs for a trend, which it is not. Get in touch with reality before writing such an article. Do your homework, it prevents mediocre journalism!

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THIS is what globalisation should be about...
Posted by: Aussie Kim on Sep 21, 2006 1:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...bringing the world together, as it were. (Everyone coming togther?) ;) ;)

I work at an English school and we end up with all sort of couples here - Brazilians dating Chinese, Turks dating Japanese, Colombians dating just about anyone... ;)

:)

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Moving on up ?
Posted by: rbtt on Sep 21, 2006 4:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think the 70s and even early 80s had more programs with couples. Like the in the Jefferson's neighbors and Different strokes and All in the family, now its just all disapeared. I used to go to a Hip hop night in LA chinatown, and it seemed to revolve around black and asians hooking up. there is a real hip hop thing in some asian circles and I think that creates a common interest that brings people together too. The best DJ turntablist is Fillipino ! DJ QBERT.

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Notice the whites and blacks!
Posted by: taliebabe on Sep 21, 2006 4:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
its interesting to note how it was said that America has moved way passed racial issues to note the Asian- African American 'team-ups'! The reason for this is because in the eyes of the white capital, Asians and African Americans are both racially subordinate! So of course this type of racial pairing would go unnoticed to vocal America! However, vocal America, would have not only noticed but insulted white-black hook-ups! Why?.... read between the lines!

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Asian women and black men, good match.
Posted by: andre on Sep 21, 2006 8:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I really want to say that when I see a mixed couple, any race, it makes me feel good about society and our ability to adapt and live with each other. My own personal preference are asian women and its a decision only the person can make. People who feel good about themselves and appreciate diversity will find the appeal of something (someone) different to be a good thing. Although sex is good, lets leave sex out of the discussion. Its comforting to know that there are men and women who will try something new. As for the website Tribe N.Y., I could not find it. Any one who has there web address, plese send it redbottom4y@yahoo.com

Thanks

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rinkusen
Posted by: rinkusen on Sep 21, 2006 9:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Author here, wanting to acknowledge, as anna33 and theotis point out, that historically the likely combination among Blacks and Asians in the United States and Carribean was between Asian men and Black women. Asian women were prohibited from immigrating by laws such as the Chinese Exclusion Act and relationships between white women and Asian men were prohibited by anti-miscegenation laws. Makes perfect sense.

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» RE: rinkusen Posted by: anotheropinion
America Stop Race Mixing
Posted by: nurstat on Sep 21, 2006 10:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We the white race of America has had enough of all this HYPE and HATE HARANGUES from those of African ancestry than we can stomach. The white race recorded history for your people , something they never had the wherewithall to do.

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» RE: America Stop Race Mixing Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: America Stop Race Mixing Posted by: morticia
» RE: America Stop Race Mixing Posted by: bigo_229
Who you callin middle-aged???
Posted by: AaJay on Sep 21, 2006 12:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just wanted to point out that your made-up excuse for why the black woman character is not seen as a love interest is not because she is “middle-aged.” In fact, the actress, Chandra Wilson, is the exact same age as Ellen Pompeo (though Wilson looks a bit younger, imo). No, it is much more likely that black women—while often seen as sexually loose and available—are typically not viewed as object of beauty and desire by non-black TV producers (and clearly some viewers and writers) so when they need to be taken seriously, they need to seen as de-sexualized. I don’t imagine that is the case with the creator of the show, a black woman, who probably sees Dr. Bailey as a beautiful, intelligent, thick & sexy lady. That’s probably why the character’s black husband is so damn fine.

Beyond that I really don’t think this article was particularly well thought.

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Now, look
Posted by: Non_Theist on Sep 21, 2006 2:39 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here in NYC I actually see fewer white men with an Asian woman on their arm than I have in the past. For some time white men escorting Asian women about was looked at as "slumming", or taking advantage of their privledged position as white men to enjoy the affections of these, in their minds, "subserviant women", which probably amounts to "slumming".

Perhaps because Asian women, and most def' Black men, are consider "other" in this culture the accusation of "slumming" would seem to be absurd.

But here's the other thing relative to television and the hypocritical statement made by that producer fellow in the above piece: How often on any program do we see a white woman and a Black man making the beast with two backs? Right. As I thought. We do see the occasional white male character making the swirl with a black woman, and I contend that this is merely and only a reflection of the white male's privledged position in this culture, which allows him to have his way with Black women, which we may trace all the way to the funny business that occured on many a plantation during this country's slavery period. All's I'm saying is let's be honest. This country still has a bug up its ass about Black men and White women getting their freak on.

Personally, I don't give a fig about who sleeps with whom. On the issue of miscegnation I'm with the Vulcans- Infinite Delight In Infinite Combinations. Word.

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This is the 21st Century!
Posted by: becomeuseless on Sep 21, 2006 7:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have lived in Taiwan since 2001 and recently cut back on teaching English to pursue my Masters at a local university. Since I am a foreign student I had to attend an orientation where I got a chance to meet my fellow classmates. These students come from over 40 countries and are a pretty even mix of male and female. I am married to a Taiwanese woman so the subject of dating local men and women came up. The foreign men had an easier time dating local women than the foreign women had dating local men. Taiwan is still a fairly sexist place, eg. the son is more important than the daughter, so I can understand why the foreign men had an easier time. Except for me these men where not caucasian and did not come from North America, the vast majority came from Malayasia, India and countries in South America. I must agree with Aussie Kim and say, isn't this what globalization susposed to be? What better way to get past our cultural and racial differences then by opening up our social circles and hopefully our families. According to Ric2 these foreign women only want to date Asian men for their wealth because they are from developing countries, this is a typical example of the thinking of far too many Taiwanese parents who forbid their sons from dating foreign women. My American co-worker has dated a few Taiwanese men and her complaints have nothing to do with the men themselves, but with their parents. She once told me that she wants to date an Asian man, not an Asian boy.

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Bulworth once said
Posted by: wharton on Sep 23, 2006 1:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Wanna screw up the power structure in America? Let's all get together everybody, and screw each other until all our babies are tan!"

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I love this PARAGRAPH
Posted by: Phenix on Sep 25, 2006 9:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Aarti, a 26-year-old activist of Indian descent, found her first Black boyfriend at 15 when she left her fully multiracial public school for a scholarship to a prep school where the students were polarized between Black and white. "I really felt that I had no choice. My body type in high school was much more voluptuous than it is now, and that just really took the white guys out,"she said. Aarti does not discuss her dating life with her parents. She recalls that one time when she brought home a Black boyfriend "as a friend," her father felt the need to craft a long explanation for his presence to an extended family member. She further noted that among her South Asian peers she received far more stigmatizing attention for "only dating Black" than did those who only dated white.

The word that set me off laughing was "voluptuous" which is code for she was fat. I don't know any kids from my high school who would turn down a date from a girl who was truly voluptuous. I mean you can't think of anything better as a high school student well that is if she has a face to go with her voluptuous body. If she was on the fatter side then I must thank black men who always seem to sntchg up the fat white girls. As a white guy I applaud you all for the effort. I of course will not return the favor.

On a serious note. This article is just pointless. I see no reason why its on alternet other than to fill some quota about social issues. Who really cares that asian women are dating black men. Well their families do especially the asian girls family but don't worry recent immigrant families want their daughters to find a guy from the same country. I had two friends who were dating. The girl was vietnamese and the guy was Chinese. Neither family would allow them to date. The main reason was that the Chinese and Vietnamese hate each other but the girls parents would not allow her to date outside of her nationality. Trust me I know. I tried but I was told it was impossible because I was white. I did this before she dated my good friend.

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» RE: I love this PARAGRAPH Posted by: Aussie Kim
What about Asian men and Black women?
Posted by: Chy11 on Oct 4, 2006 8:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hi,I enjoyed your article but why dont Asian men ever get a mention?
They seem to get ignored and bypassed a lot.
Here is my group and I want to say that Asian males are definitely welcome.
With love and peace to all.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/asianswholikeblackpeople/

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