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Lies, Damned Lies, and How Much Should Obama Lie?

By Don Hazen, AlterNet. Posted September 23, 2008.


A special message from AlterNet’s executive editor about AlterNet's approach to lies in the campaign.
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Lies are everywhere. It's a veritable lying epidemic out there in campaign America. Yet, it was still surprising when corporate writer Farhad Manjoo suggested that Barack Obama's problem in the campaign was that he wasn't lying enough.

Perhaps it is quaint, but at AlterNet we are in favor of fewer lies, not more. And we won't lie. This article is in part an appeal to support us financially, to help us fight back against the recent plague of lies. More about that in a minute. But, if you already know you want to help us, click here.

Manjoo works for Slate, which is owned by the Washington Post Company, owner of Newsweek and a media empire that stretches from TV channels to children's schoolbooks.

Manjoo catalogued many of the lies strewn about by John McCain and running mate Sarah Palin, and by Obama. Manjoo concluded that McCain was out-lying Obama by more than 2-1, and that Obama had refrained from the big whoppers. Hence, according to Manjoo, "McCain has lied more often and more outrageously than Obama."

Take McCain's ad claiming that Obama's "one accomplishment" on education policy was to push "legislation to teach 'comprehensive sex education' to kindergartners." According to Manjoo, "It's difficult to find a single true word in the whole spot. The McCain camp's other sin is one of repetition. They keep saying things that have been proved untrue. In TV ads and at nearly every stump speech, Palin has repeated the line that she stopped the federal government's plan to build the 'bridge to nowhere,' a claim that fact-check sites and nearly every major news organization have shot down."

And here is Manjoo's conclusion: "This is exactly what's so puzzling about Obama's strategy -- why is he paying any attention to the fact-checkers? So far, McCain has seen little blowback from lying." Manjoo also states that 51 percent of the public wrongly believes McCain's claim that Obama will raise taxes on the middle class.

I feel I have to intervene on behalf of all of us and say no to Manjoo, and to the outrageous cynicism required to suggest that Obama should just lie more as a solution. Sure, Obama can get tougher, but he doesn't have to lie to succeed. AlterNet's mission is focused on stopping the lies. And you, our audience, have shown your appreciation of our mission by devouring our material.

In the past few weeks AlterNet has had the most visitors in our 10 years! In one week more than half a million people read our series about Palin's lies. AlterNet's job is blow the whistle on falsehoods. And that is why we hope you will support AlterNet with your donation today.

AlterNet is doing great. We deliver many dozens of articles, blogs and videos every day -- all for free. But, it does cost us money. No lying here. There is no free lunch. In fact, the more people visit AlterNet, the more we have to pay for servers to handle the load. In fact, our server costs are almost $40,000 a year alone. That's just one example of the costs of running a high-traffic, independent Web site. And of course there is rent, salaries, money for writers, insurance and the normal stuff necessary for success.

To wrap it up, Manjoo actually wrote a book about lying -- or, as he calls it, "the disappearance of facts." The book is titled True Enough: Learning to Live in a Post-Fact Society. In it, he argues that "facts are a stock of faltering value." And that "media fragmentation -- the disintegration of the mass media into the many niches of the Web, cable news, and talk radio -- lets us consume news that we like and avoid news that we don't, leading people to perceive reality in a way that conforms to their long-held beliefs."

Well yes, the avoidance of facts is a problem, as we all know. Some voters practice denial. But, that is no reason to stop presenting reality, even when it is painful. Things are not going to change until we face the truth head on. We hope you will support us in our effort to bring more truth to this campaign.

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See more stories tagged with: lies, alternet, slate, farhad manjoo

Don Hazen is the executive editor of AlterNet.

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It's INTENT that counts
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 23, 2008 12:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't believe Barack Obama has ever intentionally told a falsehood. Yes, some of his allegations against Republicans have been off the mark but he is a decent man who does not willfully lie.

Conversely, Manchurian Candidate McCain has been lying ever since he came back from North Vietnam 40 years sgo and because of his advanced age, he csn no longer distinguish fiction from reality.

John McCain--OLD ideas, OLD solutions

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: It's INTENT that counts Posted by: Axiom69
» RE: It's INTENT that counts Posted by: felixblackcat
» RE: It's INTENT that counts Posted by: Lauren
» ALL candidates lie. Posted by: Axiom69
» RE: It's INTENT that counts Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: It's INTENT that counts Posted by: Lauren
» You win! Posted by: Karl.Ben
» Keep it Real! Posted by: Karl.Ben
As your basic garden-variety anarchist . . .
Posted by: hagwind on Sep 23, 2008 3:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't believe that the ends justify the means; I believe that the means become the ends. Anyone who lies his way into office is going to keep lying once he gets there. If you want another lying, deceptive administration that doesn't seem to know what the truth is or how to find it -- by all means, vote McCain-Palin.

You're right about AlterNet, Don H. Your coverage of the financial meltdown has been among the best anywhere. Time to scrape another donation!

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Mac & Palin Supply plenty to work with..No need to Lie!
Posted by: Purple Girl on Sep 23, 2008 5:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks Rachel maddow for being the first person on any Braodcast to use the word "LIE".
Since she first correctly and unabashedly used the most accurate term regarding Mac and his Puppetmasters techniques, the Truthful word "LIE" has come back in vogue in the Media.Rachel you are not just a Trend setter, you have released US from the spin Rhetoric-' Mis spoke, Mis understand' or the Other decieving elegant BS $0.20 Words these mouthpeices pull out of their Thesaurus meaning LIE!
Just like you hear so many Stand Up Comics Say- why waste time writing a Joke- Just open the morning Paper. Obama does not need to Lie, the Truth alone will set US Free!
Ever notice the Audience behind the Candidates?
Obama's crowd are smiling, interacting
Mac's Group look Drugged (Lifeless until the coordinated head nod, or applause in unison), or confused or pissed off.
I Went out registering voters in a predominately white area (I'm also white), just off the grounds of a Catholic church fair.It was easy to determine who supported Obama and Who supported Mac. I would get a smile and 'already registered, but thank you' from the Obama supporters. I would get yelled at and berated by the McCain supporters. I Never asked Who they were supporting, only Asked if they wanted to Register to vote. Some old guy went off on my 60+ female associate because he wasn't going to vote for that SOB (required to wear our Obama Pins) and He was a WW2 vet!
I turned to him and reminded him NO ONE ASKED WHO YOU WERE VOTING FOR!! He not only proved his mother taught him no manners, but neither did the military. had she been wearing a McCain Pin instead, that SOB would have been falling all over her to tell her what a Patriot she was. Not to mention, he should know what facism looks like the Nazi's were the epitome until CheneyCorp highjacked the country 40 yrs ago!
I had another woman tell me that the Fair was no place for Politics?? I was not pushing a candidate, and What is it they have been trying to reinstitute for 25+ yrs...The Doctrine of the "Moral Majority" ie 'Religous Right' to push Relgious agendas in Politics- Hypocrit! these folks are so confused/indoctrinated, they have no personal concept of Patriotism nor Faith!
These folks aren't just Liars, they are Traitors to Our founding credo's and heretics in their actions.These so called 'Neo Cons' have Gutted not just Our Cosntitution and Bill of Rights, they field dressed the 10 Commandments!
Considering their Heretical doctrines (End of Days, self righteous judgement regarding fellow humans), I wonder exactly which entity they serve, which will be THEIR leader on 'Judgement day?'
RATHER LAUGH WITH THE SINNERS THEN CRY WITH THE (SELF ANOINTED) 'SAINTS'
Bare in mind, Oranized Religion was the first Great Scam/LIARS( Horseman) the other Three have just followed suit (gov't, Industry and Media)
We Don't need lies- We Need PUNCH lines! Bloody their Noses, So We can once again walk down the International Street with Our heads held High! Our ancestors Fought to free US from Unilateral Control and Oppression, Fought to Free US from Religious Zealous (slaughter)- anything short of maintaining those Principles is TREASON and HERESY!!


MCCAIN & PALIN THE TICKET TO THE TRAITOR & HERETIC PARTY!

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give me a break
Posted by: collins101 on Sep 23, 2008 6:36 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
AlterNet has been in the tank for obama from the beginning. and all these kool aid slurping obamaphiles who think that he is the second coming, that he never lies. Barry (i hardly knew Tony Resko) Obama is a fraud. You no nothings who think you know everything make me puke.

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Sad but True
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Sep 23, 2008 7:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sadly there might be a point to this line of thinking. I mean look at McBush. Pretty much EVERYTHING out of his mouth is either a half truth or an outright LIE yet he still has legions of brainless followers supporting him. I think the US Sheeple have finally lost their marbles.

Justin Black
Is your ISP Watching You?

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Obama's Greatest Strength Is
Posted by: Last Chance on Sep 23, 2008 8:00 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
telling the truth as he sees it to inform the people of what he thinks can be done to change the system in their favor. He is doing that and nobody can ask more of him than he can reasonably accomplish in one lifetime.

But the dilemma we all face goes far beyond any of our own lifetimes to our children and grandchildren. How can we create a stable economy for them to live and enjoy reasonably happy lives? It looks to me like capitalism has failed almost as spectacularly as socialism. So, what can the people do?

The Amish farmers are the best example I know of Americans living in reasonable balance, but the knowledge already exists to do even better:

Study Permaculture and get together with friends and family to form self-reliant communities where you grow your own food, build your own shelters, sew your own clothes, home school your own children, and trade freely with each other while carefully surrounding yourselves with miles of healthy wilderness. It's hard work, but it's worth it to provide a liveable future for the children.

Otherwise, the system of organized capitalist crime will succeed in revanching us back into slavery under such a high-tech aristocratic tyranny we could never escape.

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Sorry, But This Is A Somewhat Disengenous Approach.
Posted by: grumble-bum on Sep 23, 2008 8:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While Mr. Hazen may be largely correct that Alternet "doesn't lie", at least in comparison to some other news & opinion merchants, such a statement hardly clears it from any accusations of bias.

What we're talking about isn't so much commission, as omission. & to claim that Alternet is free of either is, well, not very accurate. Am I the only one who remembers the little incident a while back when this site published a shocking expose of how the Grand Canyon was being taken over by rabid creationists... That turned out to be largely false? If I were Alternet (which in a sense, I suppose we all are), I would have followed that up with a lengthy & thorough series on how the alternative media needs to strive harder to be accurate & examine its own bias. Heck, I might have considered making the topic one of the reoccurring sidebar categories.

I'm not trying to say that places like Alternet should not have a bias. After all, that's kind of the point of why we all congregate here; We desire facts & opinions that fit with our existing worldview, in order to find good ammunition for our real-world arguments & to help us feel less alone, & Alternet is a valuable source for those sorts of facts & opinions. That's great, that's all we asked for!

To state that Aternet is unbiased? Well, that's what we call... A lie.

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Nobody lies in Emerica!
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Sep 23, 2008 12:30 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Truth in advertising; truth in lending; no fine print; caveat emptor; let me tell you about the prime real estate I'm holding in the 9th Ward of New Orleans; promise her anything but give Arpege and so on. Why the hell should politics be any different in a penal colony that adores hallelujahs, snake oil, used car deals and a Alaskan female hood ornament? Want the inerrant word? Try arbitrage, a Wall Street favorite!

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LYING DEPENDS ON YOUR AUDIENCE
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Sep 23, 2008 2:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush, Cheney, McCain all talk to the same people who either don't know or don't care that they're being lied to. As best I can tell they are people who are afraid. Don't like things as they are, but the fear of something new cripples them and they stay where they are comfortable, lies and all. Picture Obama running all that jive past Dems. It wouldn't fly,not for a minute. He knows that. I also believe that he finds the truth to be expedient. He already stated today that the bailout would affect some programs that he had in mind. I knew that, but he said it. He'd rather take the heat now. Explanations down the line wouldn't be the same. In the end, telling the truth saves alot if time. Thanks, ANNA

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RE: please keep up the good work
Posted by: Lauren on Sep 24, 2008 5:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Think of the joy you could spread with an AlterNet bumper sticker.

Official AlterNet Bumper Sticker

At $4.45, plus $2.99 shipping and handling for a total of $7.44, I'd say AlterNet bumper stickers are rather overpriced.

Is this a business decision to depress sales? It is working, I have resisted paying so much for a LONG time. I'm just wondering WHY? If I was AlterNet, I send free stickers to every supporter. Or at least offer them at a reasonable price, 1 or 2 dollars.

I don't get a $7.44 bumper sticker as a business model.

Unless it is a cost cutting move, keep down the growth in traffic on their servers maybe. Bumper stickers are the most cost benefit advertising you can buy - when you give them away.

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Obama lies just as much...
Posted by: Godfather89 on Sep 23, 2008 3:00 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They agree on so much. Obama if he is not going to destroy the country is going to be to naive to stop those who will destroy this country.

Lets not forget he wants to have Universal Healthcare, think of the taxation on that! He wants to continue this War on Terror but Pre-Dominantly in Afghanistan while only beginning to pullout of Iraq by 2011, think of the taxation on that! He has been quiet about the Bailouts, if he supports them (and I have heard chatter he does) than think of the taxation on that!

Where's my income now? Oh that's right, it went completely to big government spending! America should not be a welfare state! NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!

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» RE: Obama lies just as much... Posted by: orwellturns
Well Dan you are two steps away---now dump Obama!
Posted by: Nightstallion on Sep 23, 2008 7:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It has come to this> Mark Twain: You may rest assured we will remember the Maine and that The U.S. imprint of those torpedoes were known by too many people to be construed as lies!

Just as the Twin Towers had Bush's fingerprints all over them, will Obama’s fingerprints be all over Afganistan. Hear this, please! Major General Smedley Butler USMC wrote a book called: WAR IS A RACKET! He was a two time medal of Honor recipient and not a dummy! Vincent Bugliosi, who has NEVER lost a case, wrote a book THE PROSECUTION OF GEORGE W. BUSH FOR MURDER! His main claim to fame is he has never attempted a prosecution of someone he did not believe was guilty.

Obama should never lie, but unless he changes his stance on Afghanistan he will never have my vote because ANY WAR IS A RACKET. There are no veterans of any war in any country that does not know this.

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Hit Back!
Posted by: AlexLawyer on Sep 23, 2008 10:05 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama needs to hit back hard. Advertisements challenging the lies should be aired immediately. If Gore and Kerry had done this, they probably would have won. Bush and Rove took advantage of their gentlemanliness and their overestimation of the intelligence of voters. That said, it's also true that the Republican base doesn't care. Bush's draft dodging and desertion made no difference when the Swift Boaters struck, but Kerry could have swayed the swing voters with a frank advertisement comparing their military records. Clinton's infidelity was seen as a threat to the republic, but McCain's doesn't matter.

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A military person would know this
Posted by: JohnJlws on Sep 24, 2008 12:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you're in a war and you're in a battle and you leave the field of battle with your life and your honor, you leave with everything.

"The Maverick" will leave with only his life; Obama needs to insure he leaves with both because one does not matter without the other.

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Planting Weeds In The Garden
Posted by: JohnJlws on Sep 24, 2008 12:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is it that makes someone believe they can lie "some of the time." If someone lies to achieve a goal as "the Maverick" and "the Mayor" have done so egregiously what is it we are to believe that comes out of their mouths?

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OK. Politicians lie. Now what?
Posted by: Von on Sep 28, 2008 2:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have read and saw so many articles by 'experts' and every category of persons over the last 6 years and STILL....what have We The People truly taken responsiblity for?

Year after year we are used and lied to and year after year, people write & read, spend an enormous amount of time investigating and doing research,people protest in the streets carrying signs, etc..and what "change" has taken place that is productive from all this observing / writing & reading?

I wish we could organize and Resist instead of writing & reading about details. We already KNOW the details.........we're getting F'd and THAT'S no lie !

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