COMMENTS: 551
The Bad Frame: Why Are the New Yorker, Salon and Other Liberal Media Doing the Right's Dirty Work?
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But the Obama campaign quickly put out a release condemning the magazine cover. Bill Burton, a spokesman for Obama, said in a statement: "The New Yorker may think, as one of their staff explained to us, that their cover is a satirical lampoon of the caricature Sen. Obama's right-wing critics have tried to create. But most readers will see it as tasteless and offensive. And we agree."
Unfortunately the impact of this image will extend far beyond the reading audience of the New Yorker; cable news and the right-wing media noise machine will amplify the derogatory image to millions more. And the New Yorker of course will reap enormous publicity, clearly translating to increased sales and notoriety for the brand, and for corporate owner Conde Nast -- one of the largest and most powerful media companies in America.
But the publicity could very well backfire. Editor David Remnick and artist Barry Blitt's attempt at satire seems so arrogant and indulgent in its insensitivity, and so out of touch with political and media dynamics of tabloid TV and blogs, that it just might make a lot of people angry, including some subscribers. The cover turns the magazine into a potential Molotov cocktail, to be gleefully tossed by Fox News and the conservative blogs, into the already combustible tinderbox of race and Muslim stereotypes just below the surface of America's public discourse. (Remnick has since done an interview about his decision to run the cover.)
John Aravosis at America Blog writes:
A liberal publication like the New Yorker thinks it's funny to make Mrs. Obama some radical black panther, and Barack Obama basically a terrorist (you'll note that he looks just like Osama bin Laden on the wall). ... And this is funny? Is the New Yorker so out of touch that they don't realize that much of America, or at least too much of America, harbors these very concerns about Obama and his wife?
I'm sure the New Yorker thinks they're actually poking holes in the myth by making light of the stereotypes. Yeah, and tell us how this pokes fun at the stereotype? It reinforces it. And yet again, you'd never see them try anything like this with John McCain. God forbid you even ask a question about John McCain's experience, the media will destroy you. But paint Obama and his wife as America-hating flag-burning violent terrorists, and it's funny.Jake Tapper of ABC News adds:
"Intent factors into these matters, of course, but no Upper East Side liberal -- no matter how superior they feel their intellect is -- should assume that just because they're mocking such ridiculousness, the illustration won't feed into the same beast in emails and other media. It's a recruitment poster for the right-wing.
""This is as offensive a caricature as any magazine could publish," says a high-profile Obama supporter, "and I suspect that other Obama supporters like me are also thinking about not subscribing to or buying a magazine that trafficks in such trash."Lindsay Beyerstein, who blogs at Majikthise, makes an important point in emphasizing that:
"Our national discourse is impoverished when it comes to racially loaded images like the New Yorker cover. When I saw the cover, it was clear to me that the cartoonist was trying to covey a true and important point: All the Obama myths, like his Muslim father, fit together into a coherent and poisonously racist wingnut caricature. These aren't just random rumors. The anti-Obama mythos is a continuation of the ugly narratives that conservatives have been spinning since the civil-rights movement and before. That said, if you put those images on the cover of a national magazine, you're helping Fox spread those sick memes -- whether you intend to or not. It's easy to say "my work means what I mean it to mean, and if you don't get it, that's your problem" -- but it's never that simple. If you're approaching an assignment from a position of incredible privilege, say as a cover cartoonist for the New Yorker, you can't just write off the unintended consequences of your expression. If you insist on doing so, maybe that is racist."Howard Kurtz of the Washington Post added on Sunday on his CNN media show Reliable Sources that the cover is arguably "incendiary." In the end, it is shocking how the experienced editors of the New Yorker don't have the remotest idea of how framing the Obamas in this way completely reinforces the negative and harbored feelings that they are absurdly trying to satirize. This is satire run amuck, and it is a perfect example of how antiquated notions of journalism can play a role in provoking the worst of stereotypes and off-the-wall fantasies.
Remembering What Happened to Gore and Kerry
Back in the 2000 presidential campaign, conservative operatives successfully framed the idea that Al Gore was a fabricator (no need to mention the myths because they were untrue and don't warrant repeating). But the stories wouldn't have stuck without corporate media aggressively running with the disinformation about the tall tales, repeating them so often that most people eventually just assumed they were true.
In 2004, it was John Kerry's turn. He was pegged for a flip-flopper early on -- as if no politician ever changed their mind about complex issues -- and again, with the media endlessly repeating the charge, it stuck. And to help seal Kerry's fate, he got "swift-boated" with never-proven allegations about his war hero status, and the success of that story planted seeds of doubt in some voters.
Fast-forward to the present. So far neither the conservatives nor the McCain campaign have been able to negatively frame Obama in a way that has stuck. Hillary Clinton and partner Bill were not ultimately successful either. But that hasn't been for a lack of trying. Charges suggesting Obama is weak on defense, untried under pressure, inexperienced, and even a male chauvinist a la Geraldine Ferraro, haven't succeeded. It may be that Obama is a far more nimble politician than his predecessors, that Gore and Kerry's painful lessons have been well learned by the Obama team, or that the media for whatever reason haven't yet ganged up on Obama as they did in the past. Or probably some combination of all three.
Thus far the attempt to raise questions about Obama's religion represents the most persistent attempt to create a false narrative about him. So it was pretty shocking recently when I saw "Barack Obama is a Muslim and other stories" as the headline of the lead article on Salon. Maybe Salon is still sweet on Hillary. But one wonders why this headline and message? It does heavy lifting in support of the frames that Obama is a closet Muslim -- not a Christian -- with a secret agenda. It's the same message that Fox News, right-wing talk radio and conservative pundits have been pushing for months. Questions about Obama are consistently linked to Fox's repetition compulsion connecting Obama with the word "madrassa" -- which happens to mean school -- and are now planted firmly in the media's psychology as school "for terrorists in the making."
Meanwhile, the image below accompanied the headline.

Apparently, Salon was making it easy for you, the reader -- just like when you were a kid -- to take a cut-out of a stereotypical Muslim and paste it right onto Obama. Even Fox News hasn't been that clever in terms of their efforts to stain Obama with associations to his father and to his name.
The White House and conservatives have dominated the media and public discourse over the past eight years, achieving remarkable success in winning much of their agenda, despite significant majorities opposing their ideas, as measured in opinion polls.
Conservatives have accomplished their hegemony, in part by effectively using and repeating simple, powerful language, and having it persistently echoed in the corporate media -- and even in progressive and independent media. No doubt, their biggest success has been creating the dominating frame, the "war on terror." They've successfully transformed the criminal acts of a small group of freakishly successful hijackers into a perpetual war which has become the fundamental message of Bushism, since 9/11. The "war on terror" provided the context for the hugely unpopular occupation of Iraq, the diminishing of civil liberties, and the establishment of a vast new domestic security apparatus. The media repeated the frame of the "war on terror" as though it were an inevitable response, a factual truth, and not a political frame that ideologues constantly pushed to justify an enormous shifting of priorities in the United States and around the globe.
Conservatives understand the power of a "frame," which linguistically is a conceptual structure used in thinking -- and in reality is how we come to think of images, ideas and viable narratives associated with words and phrases.
There are many dozens of conservative frames and phrases with which we are familiar. We often don't notice how they creep into our own consciousness and get repeated by us: Democrats want to "cut and run" in Iraq; "partial birth abortion" in reproductive rights; gay marriage will "destroy the family"; "the death tax," etc.
None of these frames would be successful without the generous and repeated help of the corporate media, which have perpetuated the myth of John McCain as a "maverick," with his "straight talk express," despite the fact except for a few exceptions, his record is very conservative, and he has changed his position incessantly, as this video from Brave New films and the recent article by Steve Benen, "John McCain -- 61 Flip-Flops and Counting," clearly document.
This framing-language success by the conservatives is pretty well known. But even that awareness doesn't stop us from often integrating conservative talking points into our own language, becoming language carriers ourselves. Now of course, the New Yorker might say about its cover or Salon might say about its headline, "Oh, our readers are too smart," or "We were being ironic," or "provocative to prove a point." But the fact of the matter is that many more people will see that headline and register it in their brains than will read the story alone.
Elements of a Frame
There are some basic rules about frames that editors and writers might want to think about, if they are interested in avoiding persistently reinforcing conservative language and ideas. The fundamentals include: every word is a frame; evoking a frame reinforces and strengthens that frame; negating a frame, i.e. attacking it, reinforces that frame; and finally, words defined within a frame evoke the frame.
OK, maybe that sounds a little like gobbledygook -- what does this all mean? In his New York Times best-seller Don't Think of an Elephant (disclosure: I wrote the introduction to the book and was a strong advocate for the title), George Lakoff basically boils it down to, "When I tell you, 'Don't think of an elephant,' you can't help think of it." (The most famous version of this concept is Richard Nixon insisting, "I am not a crook.") So the word elephant is a frame -- i.e. it conjures up an image of an animal with a trunk. If you repeat the word -- "I love elephants," or want to dismiss it: "I never want to think of an elephant again," you strengthen the elephant frame. And when you say for example, "Sam picked up the peanut with his trunk," you immediately know that Sam is an elephant: words defined in a frame, invoke the frame.
So yes, I learned these basic concepts from Lakoff, who had a period prior to the last presidential election when he was very influential among Democrats. He spoke to senators when they went on retreat, and he was championed by heavy hitters like George Soros. But like many "flavors of the month," he lost some of his cache. He was replaced in 2006 by Drew Westen, a psychologist whose focus on the role of emotion in "determining the political life of the nation" is the new hot thinking that Democrats and liberals have more recently embraced.
Lakoff and Westen both have their critics, as does any newish thinking that goes against conventional wisdom and many decades of habits. And some suggest they may take some leaps from the research to make their case, although they would vigorously debate that assertion. But the point is that Lakoff and Westen have important things to teach us that are fundamental to politics and communication, and their work is very compatible.
It is not necessary to agree with all of their research, assertions and speculation to appreciate the basic points of their thinking. But if one is interested in going deeper, Lakoff's new book is The Political Mind, not to be confused with the well-received book by Westen: The Political Brain.
Getting back to the New Yorker and Salon: It's not my intention to pick on them alone -- although the Obama headline and image were pretty blatant. My objective is point out that often progressive and independent media -- perhaps because we imagine that our readers are different than normal people -- frequently undermine progressive messages, or more likely reinforce conservative messages.
I believe that the words and images editors and writers use to frame their stories is what most people will take away from the articles, especially since many people get their news from just glancing at the front page and cover story. Headlines, subject lines and teasers are the most powerful and visible communication tools to connect immediately with readers. With journalism on the Web, a split-second medium, some readers spend only brief moments on sites or on articles, merely glancing at headlines and teasers.
The lead, or opening paragraph, of the story is also important, but a lead is only as good as its opening headline. If the lead paragraph never gets read because the headline or teaser doesn't effectively communicate, some great journalism and information can be wasted.
A recent morning I saw this headline on a story ready to run on AlterNet titled, '"Dykes, Whores or Bitches': One in Three Military Women Experience Sexual Abuse." And this article was from a feminist organization. It was not helping the cause. We changed it to "Misogyny is Rampant in the Military; One in Three Military Women Experience Sexual Abuse." Another recent headline was cued up: "Limbaugh Wins Big in Elections." Was that true? And if so, why were we announcing it? A simple tweak: "Limbaugh Wins as Biggest Manipulator in Elections."
A few weeks ago, on one day, I read in rapid-fire order, the following headlines on the Huffington Post: "Bush Compares Obama to Nazi Appeasers." "McCain Crosses New Line: Obama Unfit to Protect the Country." "Progressive Media Group Ditches Ad Effort to Appease Obama." In each case the language connects Obama with a negative -- being an appeaser, needing to be appeased, being unfit for office. These headlines are doing the conservatives' work for them.
What is interesting is that Bush never mentioned Obama's name in that speech in Israel, cited in the first headline. But the Huff Po frame was essentially the same headline with which editors across the world fell into lockstep. Those conservative framers are tricky and very happy to see Obama's name spread around the world connected to the word appeaser. They didn't even have to make the direct charge. But the media was all to willing to do the work for the Bush machine. The alternative headline AlterNet used: "In Israel, Bush Lays Down Some Serious Fear-Mongering."
One recent frame in an article AlterNet was considering was "Right Wing Sets its Sights on Oprah Religious 'Cult.'" This frame was produced by a progressive religious site. It gives away the power of the headline to the right wing, enabling it to frame Oprah as a cult. A cult? Scientology is a cult; the fundamentalist Mormons in Texas are a cult. Oprah is a highly successful TV entertainer who weaves a kind of spirituality lite that seems generally positive for her huge audiences; she hardly qualifies as a cult. After seeking the article, thinking that the headline would be controversial and attract a lot of readers, we realized the error of our ways and decided not to post it.
One essential point is that drawing attention to negative frames and reprehensible media figures, even in an attempt to answer them, can have the effect of reinforcing them. It is almost always better to frame one's own positive message and not mention the bad frame or framer.
Many right-wing personalities court controversy because it sells books, raises ratings and keeps them in the public eye. To achieve the visibility, they often say outlandish things, and the media, including progressives, leap to highlight or answer the ridiculous notions. Often the best tactic is to simply ignore those hungry for attention, not to succumb to the urge to always respond and repeat their frame. There is one infamous familiar female media figure who could use some neglect. In 2006, I wrote an article titled: "The Tall Blond Woman in Short Skirt and Big Mouth" or TBWSSBMI. I pleaded with everyone to ignore this person. I trust it is easy to figure out who she is. The article got more than 150,000 views, and hopefully more people started ignoring her. But who knows? Even my effort reinforced the frame, since the mere mention of her characteristics, just as in the case with the trunk and the peanut mentioned earlier, put the image of her in people's minds. So mum is the word.
As the presidential campaign moves forward, there will be many attempts by each campaign to define the candidates with a phrase or an image that will link to a story that could be believed by significant numbers of voters and plant seeds of doubt. For example, it's been reported that some number of voters -- 10 percent or more -- already think Obama is a Muslim, a notion that presumably would affect voters when they went to the polls. At this point in his campaign, 10 percent, more or less, is a manageable number.
It may be that after trying so hard, and meeting resistance from advocates like Brave New Films and the "quick on its feet" Obama campaign, that the Rupert Murdoch-Fox News-Wall Street Journal-Limbaugh right-wing echo chamber may have lost some of its clout. They may not be able to increase the number of Americans who think Obama is a Muslim to anything close to a tipping point. Or it may be that Obama, with his message of hope, his ability to communicate effectively, or even his controversy about the church he has attended for decades, may have inoculated him from having this piece of fiction become fact in people's minds.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: mmckinl on Jul 14, 2008 12:56 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What they did was indeed shocking and tasteless but it gives us the glimpse behind the facade at these two publications.
The fact is they belong to the corporate club. Their social agenda is indeed quite left but their economic agenda is all Wall Street. They are pro New York and the same people that pushed the Clinton~ Rubin economic plan that camouflaged the damage being done to the middle class. Remember that Clinton brought China into the WTO, it was Clinton that overturned Glass~Steagal, it was Clinton that signed the 1996 Telecommunications Act that gave carte blanche to media conglomeration, it was Clinton that signed Welfare Reform and remember it was Clinton that signed NAFTA. The New Yorker and Salon are the mouthpieces for the DLC, Republican Lite, Corporate branch of the Democratic Party.
These magazine covers show how they really feel about Obama. That he is a just a caricature to be played with. That he needs to be brought down a notch or two. It is the arrogance of Ivy league elite that says, yes you graduated here with honors but you didn't belong to the right fraternity. Yes you are a success but don't attend the right soirees. You Barack, are not of our class.
Having said all that : Vote Green, Obama and the lot of them are just shills for the the idea of corporate socialism that will throw an extra crust of bread to the hoi polloi.
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» RE: Salon and the New Yorker are Corporate Liberals ....
Posted by: jgorilla
» YES, Truth IS inconvenient...
Posted by: zipper696
» That is a lie.... no where in that article is such a statement.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: That is a lie.... no where in that article is such a statement.
Posted by: Cathyblj
» Well, you didn't make that distinction in your regular post did you?
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: In the millions of dollars???? You have a million dollar mortgage at 5.25%?
Posted by: Libsrule
» No facts to support your name calling. Well, that means a pass over.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: No facts to support your name calling. Well, that means a pass over.
Posted by: outsideagitator
» RE: In the millions of dollars???? You have a million dollar mortgage at 5.25%?
Posted by: MaeScott
» RE: Truth is inconvenient regardless of what side your on. Just check this out.
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» To embrace Barack Obama
Posted by: rockpicker
» RE: To embrace Barack Obama
Posted by: TomTom
» TomTom
Posted by: rockpicker
» boy, you hit the nail smack on the head........ Here, check this out.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: corporate? - you mean JEWISH
Posted by: govfoe
» No, your wrong..... check out who Obama's foreign policy advisor is...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Everybody genuflects before AIPAC -
Posted by: govfoe
» RE: Salon and the New Yorker are Corporate Liberals ....
Posted by: outsideagitator
» RE: Salon and the New Yorker are Corporate Liberals ....
Posted by: mmckinl
» Re. Jake Tapper's comments...
Posted by: Smackback
» RE: e. Jake Tapper's comments...
Posted by: TJAlex
» RE: Salon and the New Yorker are Corporate Liberals ....
Posted by: mclame
» RE: Salon and the New Yorker are Corporate Liberals ....
Posted by: mmckinl
» The New Yorker is part of the conservative oligarchy
Posted by: Lector
» SEE SAM SMITH'S THOUGHTS
Posted by: citizen chump
Comments are closed-
Posted by: weathered on Jul 14, 2008 1:11 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pull the plug on all MSM and flourish or stay stuck in the fraud.
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» RE: Look at the profile of the editors & writers
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Look at the profile of the editors & writers
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Look at the profile of the editors & writers
Posted by: edith
» RE: Look at the profile of the editors & writers
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Look at the profile of the editors & writers
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Look at the profile of the editors & writers
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Lauren...
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: My Personal Take On Toobin
Posted by: desidid
» RE: My Personal Take On Toobin
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Look at the profile of the editors & writers
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Look at the profile of the editors & writers
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: It's about Jews - left and right
Posted by: govfoe
» Um, yeah.
Posted by: edith
» RE: Um, yeah. Oops
Posted by: Kati
» The New Yorker Is Acknowledged As the Gold Standard
Posted by: edith
» Don't bother, talking with these people is like talking to bush supporters in 2004...
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Posted by: johnmccormack on Jul 14, 2008 2:35 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Grow a sense of humor!
Posted by: weathered
» RE: Grow a sense of humor!
Posted by: BeckyD
» RE: They'll just see the cover . . . Sadly fades the American Dream
Posted by: editnetwork
» RE: Grow a sense of humor!
Posted by: guleblanc
» RE: Grow a sense of humor!
Posted by: ChicagoPaul
» RE: Grow a sense of humor!
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Grow a sense of humor!
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Grow a sense of humor!
Posted by: ChicagoPaul
» RE: Grow a sense of humor!
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Grow a sense of humor!
Posted by: ChicagoPaul
» RE: Grow a sense of humor! A Picture is Worth a Thousand Words !
Posted by: mmckinl
» RE: Grow a sense of humor!
Posted by: Magwitch
» RE: Grow a sense of humor!
Posted by: bizeeb
» RE: Grow a sense of humor!
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Grow a sense of humor!
Posted by: shaman0979
» RE: I'm glad you brought up McCain
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Grow sense of humor? EXACTLY!
Posted by: MTguy
» RE: Grow sense of humor? EXACTLY!
Posted by: ChicagoPaul
» RE: Grow sense of humor? EXACTLY!
Posted by: clvngodess
» President Bush Blew Frogs Up as a Kid
Posted by: mcartri
» Amen, amen, amen...
Posted by: J. Bo
» That's exactly what Flush Lamebaugh would say.
Posted by: Smackback
» My point is that Hazen shouldn't feed the stereotype...
Posted by: J. Bo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: GPFrank on Jul 14, 2008 3:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» That is not the only blog that does that either. It appears to be both....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: That is not the only blog that does that either. It appears to be both....
Posted by: crazyquilt
» No, no , you have it all wrong..... take a look at how this is working.
Posted by: Prophit
» Alright, a voice in the wilderness...... thanks..... lets do it and I will.....
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ChrisBrown on Jul 14, 2008 3:20 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: American sense of humor
Posted by: aumfish
» RE: American sense of humor
Posted by: using
» RE: American sense of humor
Posted by: naryaquid
» RE: American sense of humor
Posted by: ChrisBrown
» RE: American sense of humor
Posted by: noir
» RE: American sense of humor
Posted by: ChrisBrown
» RE: American sense of humor
Posted by: Lauren
» Read the cartoons in the New Yorker: They are funny too
Posted by: edith
» RE: ead the cartoons in the New Yorker: They are funny too
Posted by: ChrisBrown
» RE: ead the cartoons in the New Yorker: They are funny too
Posted by: naryaquid
» RE: American sense of humor
Posted by: crossword
» RE: try this with a jew - top hat and curls?
Posted by: govfoe
» govfoe= Ignorant Asshole
Posted by: thumber77
» American sense of humor and trolling
Posted by: nap
Comments are closed-
Posted by: shill on Jul 14, 2008 3:25 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: How Stupid!
Posted by: rockpicker
» "Which side are you on" sings an old labor song.
Posted by: Sojourner
» Doubt you'll see this, Sojourner...
Posted by: trappedintwilightzone
» Oh, great, your kneeling before him before he even gets elected.
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Magginkat on Jul 14, 2008 3:33 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The article headline does follow the article's advice, creating a positive effect.
Posted by: Christie
» RE: The article headline does follow the article's advice, creating a positive effect.
Posted by: TJAlex
Comments are closed-
Posted by: thebana on Jul 14, 2008 3:36 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it
Edward R. Murrow
so i would love to hear any comments or feedback in agreement or dissent of my opinion
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» RE: The sad truth
Posted by: o
» RE: The sad truth
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: The sadder truth
Posted by: o
» RE: The sad truth
Posted by: jareilly
» RE: The sad truth
Posted by: ChicagoPaul
» If the Obamas were WHITE,
Posted by: mcartri
» I would be AMAZED if "many many people" saw this New Yorker cover
Posted by: olderworker
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Posted by: bbfmail on Jul 14, 2008 3:56 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: www.suekatz.com on Jul 14, 2008 4:33 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sue
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» RE: This cover is about as funny as...
Posted by: wwittman
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Posted by: bobconway on Jul 14, 2008 4:37 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author's drawing negative attention to this "New Yorker" cover is more likely to alert the moronic right to it than would the cover in and of itself, and yes, some of them surely WILL try to exploit it for political gain. This magazine is likely rarely even be noticed let alone read by most of the people whose idiocy is being lampooned by this cover. Thanks a lot, Don, for tipping them off!
The Obamas are probably having a bit of a nervous laugh over this dark joke themselves, even though it does depict a grim reality which they -- and we ALL -- must face virtually every day of this campaign season: The insane and insidious misinformation campaign being vigorously pursued by the knuckle-dragging wing of the Republican Party and their swift-boating running dogs. These are people in desperate NEED of being lampooned. Thanks, "New Yorker," for having the guts to take them on!
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» RE: Missing the Point
Posted by: loxias
» RE: Missing the Point
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Missing the Point
Posted by: Martin32
» RE: Missing the Point
Posted by: Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BST on Jul 14, 2008 4:44 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But then, who still wastes money on the NY'er?
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» I do!
Posted by: olderworker
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Posted by: norsegirl on Jul 14, 2008 4:49 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This isn't even close to what the New Yorker did, with its uncritically presented, racist, and xenophobic image.
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Posted by: motorchickd on Jul 14, 2008 4:56 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: A Picture Speaks a Thousand Words
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: A Picture Speaks a Thousand Words
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: A Picture Speaks a Thousand Words
Posted by: Cynic13
» RE: A Picture Speaks a Thousand Words
Posted by: Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: terradea42 on Jul 14, 2008 5:06 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Intelligent people will know this is mocking the right wing; unfortunately, most Americans are not intelligent and will take this at face value. Shame on the New Yorker for ignoring that fact.
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» RE: The New Yorker is Ignorant
Posted by: MBFLA
» RE: The New Yorker is Ignorant
Posted by: pete1029
» RE: The New Yorker is Ignorant
Posted by: naryaquid
» I can't believe what I am reading here..... you want the NY to shill....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: The American people are Ignorant
Posted by: pizzmoe
» RE: The American people are Ignorant
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» It says we haven't got a clue what your talking about????
Posted by: Prophit
» "Stupid" is about 'going to same public schools, same colleges, growing up in....
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Posted by: beautifulady2003 on Jul 14, 2008 5:11 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Making a big deal out of a cartoon magazine cover just shows how stupid the American public perceives itself to be. And they're probably right.
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» RE: Big Deal
Posted by: Bozwell
» RE: Big Deal
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» Well, good commentary, lady 2003...... you got it.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Well, good commentary, lady 2003...... you got it.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Big Deal
Posted by: naryaquid
» RE: Big Deal
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» If what you say is true, how come McCain is so far behind Obama in the polls???
Posted by: Prophit
» Well said
Posted by: form5166
Comments are closed-
Posted by: williameon on Jul 14, 2008 5:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A cartoon of Dead Eye Dick chewing up American Soldier's!
A cartoon of Hillery watching Bill getting ahead?
A cartoon of Jewish Soldiers Torturing Journalists?
A cartoon of Zionist using American Dollars to buy nuclear waste buried in Gaza.
A cartoon of a nuclear sub equipped with nuclear missiles flying the star of David?
A cartoon of the millions of people mutilated and maimed by this WAR!
A cartoon of Dead Eye Dick shooting America in the face while giving it the Finger.
A Cartoon of the Bush family tree:
From his Grandfather trying to overthrow the American government in 1933, supporting the Nazi's 1942, till the
The 2000 selection,
911, Iraq, All children left behind, rescinding 400 plus pollution laws, spying, lying, propaganda, torture, terrorism and treason.
Telling the G8: Goodbye from the worlds biggest polluter.
Till he finally achieved total hypocrisy with the passage of the spying Bill!
Now That's Funny!
It's sad that all we get is Cartoons of the Faux Media making jokes about themselves.
Anything to sell sensationalist trash but,
The TRUTH!
Corpirates Gone Wild
Jabrones!!!!!!!!!!!!
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» RE: And I remember when liberals were for peace, love and understanding
Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: And I remember when liberals were for peace, love and understanding
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: And I remember when liberals were for peace, love and understanding
Posted by: Quannah
» we wouldn't want to harm your 'self-esteem'.
Posted by: edith
» RE: we wouldn't want to harm your 'self-esteem'.
Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: we wouldn't want to harm your 'self-esteem'.
Posted by: revjmike
» Bush WAS On the Cover
Posted by: Sparks56
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Posted by: loxias on Jul 14, 2008 5:33 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» It gets lonely being the carrier of the truth doesn't it? LOL
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: Figfest on Jul 14, 2008 5:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This cover simply demonstrates appalling judgment. If it was intended as "satire" of anti-Obama smears, it could have been framed differently.
I have subscribed to the New Yorker for more than 30 years. No longer. I can no longer trust the editor's judgment. I have cancelled my subscription this morning and await my refund.
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» Funny how you didn't cancel because they didn't print the truth.....
Posted by: Prophit
» Yeah, most people feel that way when you smack them with the hard.....
Posted by: Prophit
» Thank you TJ Alex, not for me but for our country and its freedoms.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: David Remnick loses a subscriber
Posted by: Lauren
» CPM
Posted by: edith
» HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Posted by: justaperson on Jul 14, 2008 5:39 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Would I find that funny?
Absolutely not.
Will millions of people who pass by a newsstand see the cover and feel even more convinced these good Americans are Muslims?
You betcha.
Satire demands a certain amount of sophistication. Most of the people who think Barack Obama is a Muslim lack that quality. They believe what they read in the National Enquirer. They believe the doubts about Obama expressed on Fox News or in scurrilous emails, and they will believe this cover has some validity.
Duh?
Don't tell me the New Yorker wasn't aware of this.
Shock-jock journalism ought to be beneath a magazine like the New Yorker.
www.http://caroleborgespoet.blogspot.com/
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» RE: New Yorker has lost its sense of humor
Posted by: Bozwell
» RE: New Yorker has lost their mind
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: New Yorker has lost its sense of humor
Posted by: Pax99
» RE: New Yorker has lost its sense of humor
Posted by: TJAlex
Comments are closed-
Posted by: chorton on Jul 14, 2008 5:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The New York Times (7/2/08) and Cleveland Plain Dealer (7/4) carried the story "Steelworkers form global union", which began
"The United Steelworkers signed a merger agreement with the largest
labor organization in Britain and Ireland to create what union leaders
said would be the world's first global union. The new union, to be
called Workers Uniting, will represent more than 2.8 million workers
in the steel, paper, oil, health care and transportation industries.
Officials said the union plans to hold trans-Atlantic negotiations
with companies, including the oil conglomerate BP and ArcelorMittal,
the giant steel maker."
The story was also covered by the BBC, Time Magazine, the Huffington
Post, Yahoo and FOX Business, and rated two sentences in the Christian Science Monitor.
It was apparently not carried by AP or UPI, or reported by ABC, CBS, BBC, MSNBC, CNN, PBS, NPR, USA Today, the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times, Washington Times, Miami Herald, Boston Globe, Detroit Free Press or Chicago Tribune. Or much of anyone else.
It is fair to say that most news-watchers - myself included - did not see this story. Is it news? Is it important information? Is it interesting? Then why was it ignored?
Help break their power to block the news by passing this and other "silenced stories" along. Copy this news alert and post it on websites and blogs, send it to your friends and the lists you are on, with an appeal to pass it along.
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» RE: News Alert
Posted by: jgorilla
» Thank you, you make my point..... but even more important about....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: News Alert
Posted by: Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Pippi on Jul 14, 2008 5:42 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Get Real
Posted by: Bozwell
» RE: Get Real
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Get Real
Posted by: Sparks56
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pete1029 on Jul 14, 2008 5:44 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How dare the New Yorker only think about its readers when releasing a cover, surly it should be forced to take the considerations all other American's who don't read or buy their magazine into consideration before making their magazine.
Hopefully this episode will teach the New Yorker that liberal magazines are only allowed to portray Obama in a God like Manner (i.e. the rolling stone cover).
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» RE: how dare the New Yorker
Posted by: Bozwell
» RE: how dare the New Yorker
Posted by: babs
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Christie on Jul 14, 2008 5:54 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: This New Yorker cover just cost me $50.00.
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: This New Yorker cover just cost me $50.00.
Posted by: Lauren
» Just out of curiosity, why didn't you send that $50 before this cover came out?
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: This New Yorker cover just cost me $50.00 (but really more.)
Posted by: edith
» RE: This New Yorker cover just cost me $50.00 (but really more.)
Posted by: oldmoth
» RE: This New Yorker cover just cost me $50.00 (but really more.)
Posted by: phatkhat
» OR, she is a supporter of the first amendment even when its your ox....
Posted by: Prophit
» Explain how Obama voting for FISA, introducing legisl that establishes....
Posted by: Prophit
» She'll block me because she knows I will ask her for proof that....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: This New Yorker cover just cost me $50.00 (but really more.)
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: This New Yorker cover just cost me $50.00 (but really more.)
Posted by: edith
» LOL, damn, your good, Edith..........
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: boing007 on Jul 14, 2008 5:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Excellent point, that is why censorship on any side is bad.....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: xcellent point, that is why censorship on any side is bad.....
Posted by: aonghus36
» Yes, it is..... it was so in case no one read it before..... I had no time ....
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: owlbear1 on Jul 14, 2008 5:56 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think it has to do with how powerless we all feel about what is happening.
People really need to CALM down and maybe take a few weeks off before the convention.
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Posted by: Vic Fedorov on Jul 14, 2008 5:57 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Though Yahoo led an article on how some voters think McCain is too old, which is not true and a cheap shot on the mind; some force wants you to think people are that unsensing: Really there is a mind controll that transcends politics. Tune into that spiritual dimension of our oppression. Just know what the euphemism The Kingdom of God means, and you shall be free of some complexes. Or, by that matter any spiritual knowledge should show a political transcendance.
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» RE: Take more cheap shots, you are tougher
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: Nebris on Jul 14, 2008 6:00 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
BTW They made Michelle Obama look like Angela Davis. We like Angela Davis. =)
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» RE: LOL
Posted by: edith
» RE: LOL
Posted by: revjmike
» Exactly........ made my point.
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: whealeydj on Jul 14, 2008 6:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: humor is hard
Posted by: revjmike
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Posted by: johngary on Jul 14, 2008 6:11 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is the image that matters stupid! The image lasts long after the article.
It is the image of Obama as a Muslim that will remain in peoples mind long after the thought content of the article fades from memory. It will shape their prejudice, their subconscious reflective response and ultimately how they vote. And don’t tell me the editors of the New Yorker were unaware of these underlying psychological facts when they published their cover.
The hidden persuaders are at work and their intent is malevolent!!!
Think of the images of those strong Blond Aryan Brown Shirts with the swastikas on their arm that appeared on so many Nazi posters. Those weren’t funny caricatures, they were powerful images that fostered the Nazi agenda in Germany. Those that laughed at those images laughed at their peril!
It is the image that lingers that matters.
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» RE: Images matter
Posted by: Bozwell
» RE: Images matter
Posted by: wellaware lec
» RE: Images matter
Posted by: Lauren
» You maybe right.... that would keep them mad enough about the cover...
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: marusasma on Jul 14, 2008 6:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Getting back to the New Yorker cover, they need to issue an apology to the Obamas. That cover is just tacky and racist in the extreme.
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» RE: Obama Poster
Posted by: jgorilla
» RE: Obama Poster
Posted by: edith
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Posted by: owlbear1 on Jul 14, 2008 6:22 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Cynic13 on Jul 14, 2008 6:31 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Vogue
W
style.com
Glamour
Allure
Self
Teen Vogue
GQ
Details
Men's Vogue
men.style.com
Architectural Digest
Brides
Modern Bride
Elegant Bride
Brides.com
Lucky
Domino
Cookie
Golf Digest
Golf World
Golf for Women
Vanity Fair
Gourmet
Bon Appétit
epicurious.com
Condé Nast Traveler
concierge.com
Wired
Wired.com
Condé Nast Portfolio
Portfolio.com
The New Yorker
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» RE: Try this
Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: Try this
Posted by: babs
» RE: Try this
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Try this
Posted by: edith
» Sounds like they prefer Foreign Affairs published by the CFR....LOL
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Posted by: JohnJlws on Jul 14, 2008 6:33 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And the MSM and others will be talking about magazine covers and what Jesse said.
We need a serious conversation in this country concerning race. It’s been a couple hundred years since the signing of our country’s vision, the Declaration of Independence, with its immortal words “all men are created equal” and it’s been almost 150 years since Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation freeing the slaves from their literal shackles, but we have never had a discussion to free all of us from the shackles of the disease of racism. Martin started the conversation, but after he was killed and some appeasement and progress was made, everyone sort of went about the business of building up their 401(k)s.
We need a serious conversation in this country concerning what we want our world to look like in three or four or five generations. This perpetual war model is a really good one, but I fear the outcome will eventually not be to our liking.
We need a serious conversation in this country about fear. Look at what we’ve done since 9-1-1. If at the end of that reflection you don’t say something like “JESUS CHRIST!!!” try again as you’ve missed a great deal.
We need a serious conversation in this country about the role of the media. It’s gone from iconic newscasters to people who just sort of make shit up and scream at one another. I think Edward R. has probably long since exhausted himself rolling over in his grave.
We need a serious conversation in this country about everything from infrastructure to our penal system to education.
I don’t know that Obama can solve all the ills of the world. I know McCain will have difficulty solving one as his goal is "to be President," not offer legitimate solutions to what ails us. But, hopefully, President Obama will consider continuing the discussion Martin started as it’s incomplete and we’ve wasted far too much energy on dilly-dallying around its edges, never really coming to grips with even this most rudimentary fear.
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» RE: Outrage Is As Outrage Does
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Outrage Is As Outrage Does
Posted by: JohnJlws
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Posted by: jgorilla on Jul 14, 2008 6:35 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: gwpinetree on Jul 14, 2008 6:35 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think the cover is dead-on. It's a reductio ad absurdum that could very well embarrass the MSM into mocking every goofy right-wing caricature we've had to endure about center and left-of-center candidates for years.
I think the notion that Americans aren't going to get this is itself elitist. Considerations of "framing" are just overwrought, IMHO. If we really believe all that crap, we may as well give up on democracy. Democracty ispredicated on the ability of people to maximize their self-interest while compromising with people who have competing interests; if people are too stupid to act in their own interest, why have democracy? I submit that if people are too stupid to get that cover, then there's no hope for democracy, and our problem is a lot bigger than has been admitted in this thread so far.
I applaud the New Yorker for taking back the goofy "Muslem Terrorist" trope and stomping on it.
We can't shrink from attacking false propaganda, and we can't stoop to mythologizing or propagandizing ourselves.
The New Yorker has been a bastion of sophisticated (by which I don't mean elitist!) liberal thought for decades. Let's not confuse it for our real enemy.
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» RE: Stop the hand-wringing! Whew!!! Thanks, ...
Posted by: gazooks
» RE: Stop the hand-wringing!
Posted by: pizzmoe
» RE: Stop the hand-wringing!
Posted by: pomes
» RE: Stop the hand-wringing!
Posted by: Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Democritus on Jul 14, 2008 6:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Some friends
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: solrev on Jul 14, 2008 6:47 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: NoDrama on Jul 14, 2008 6:48 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Worse yet, the imagery demeans more than just the Obamas; it belittles virtually all with African ancestry as well as those of the Muslim faith. It will become a de facto viral smear all by itself. Perhaps in the future this will become known as "pulling a New Yorker" or having a "New Yorker moment." (They just eclipsed Jesse Jackson's genitalia comment, don't you think?) It will foster a great dialog, and garner attention to the magazine, but in the end it's the impact on those who don't read the New Yorker which is at issue.
It was clearly an attempt at humor, conceived to poke fun at the worst rumors and whisper campaigns. I'm sad, because I like the magazine for decades. The editors had to know what would happen to their cover art on the net - and that many more would see Blitt's work than will ever read the article.
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» RE: "It will foster a great dialog" ....
Posted by: gazooks
» RE: Perhaps,...
Posted by: gazooks
» I agree with you wholeheartedly, but I can understand how we got here.
Posted by: Prophit
» Boy is that ever the truth.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: No excuse
Posted by: babs
Comments are closed-
Posted by: desidid on Jul 14, 2008 6:54 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: More Of The Same
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: More Of The Same
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: Elfits on Jul 14, 2008 6:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Upper West Side
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Upper West Side
Posted by: TJAlex
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Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Jul 14, 2008 6:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Ok, say it with me, Kids...
Posted by: Lauren
» As a friend in the mainstream media once said...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
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Posted by: jgrossnas on Jul 14, 2008 7:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And the points that have been made here in the comment section about a similar cartoon about McCain is very poignant. The NYer wouldn't have the guts to do the same thing to him for the same reason a lot of mainstream media outlets wouldn't do it- they're too afraid of the right-wing media machine and getting called out as 'the liberal media' and for making fun of a war hero. That's the same reason that any minor deviation of position from Obama is a flip-flop while every 180 degree turn by McCain is simply glossed over. Not exactly fair and balanced, is it?
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» RE: It's ironic that...
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: crazy carlos on Jul 14, 2008 7:03 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Interesting graphic
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: jonnymil on Jul 14, 2008 7:05 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have never been able to understand why the "accusation" that Senator Obama might practice Islam is a charge that must be so ardently defended against. Shouldn't the appropriate response be "so what?" Are Muslims prohibited from running for office, being elected, or committing decent acts of public service? Who's being prejudicial now?
When Mrs. Obama said that she had never been more proud to be an American, are we to state, like Pat Buchanan, that black people in America are the luckiest most fortunate black people on the planet and should stop their whining?
And ultimately, if the fear of American progressives (who are moderately left compared to real leftists the world over) is that their opinions and ideologies might be in the minority AND they still want to win in the most democratic elections possible, then "I have seen the enemy, and they are us." The truest thing that can be said about democracy is that you get the democracy you deserve. Al Gore did not become president, after winning the election--even in Florida--because his rebuttal to then-Governor Bush was "I agree..."
When a conservative of any variety moves to the center, like McCain, he or she is perceived weak. When a progressive does it, he or she is rightly perceived as spineless. Obama, if he is a progressive, should use this campaign season as an opportunity to state that the strength of America is her--is OUR--diversity. His daughters can see in Senator Clinton that a woman can become president. Women have in fact become heads of state in the Middle East, even in strict Muslim dominated nations, but not in liberated, liberal America. And people of differing faiths can be superb leaders and bring people together.
The truly sad and disappointing part of this story is the quick rebuttal and complaint of the Obama campaign to the New Yorker. And I am not a subscriber. Nor a Muslim.
If we don't really believe in equality, then we shouldn't so ardently support democracy. And if we DO believe in equality, then we shouldn't foster the myth that Obama being a Muslim would be outrageous. If America votes for another Republican administration because of the misperception that the Democratic Candidate hasn't accepted Jesus Christ as his personal lord and savior, then America gets the "democracy" it deserves.
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» RE: I've made the same observation
Posted by: desidid
» RE: The REAL Outrage
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Define Progressive
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: macdon1 on Jul 14, 2008 7:07 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Crying Fire in a Crowded Theater
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Crying Fire in a Crowded Theater
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Crying Fire in a Crowded Theater
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: FALSELY Crying Fire in a Crowded Theater
Posted by: hagwind
Comments are closed-
Posted by: judyschultz on Jul 14, 2008 7:16 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeah, the moronic far right might believe that the Obamas are Muslims, but they wouldn't be reading the New Yorker anyway. So proliferation of this discusssion, starting with this article is what may eventually get their attention.
I say: Lighten up, Guys! We should be grown-up enough to handle The New Yorker covers and Salon headlines without going into shock and temper tantrums.
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» RE: Good Grief
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: So A Cover Caricature Of Jewish Money Changers and Blood Diamond Merchants
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Good Grief
Posted by: Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: culheath on Jul 14, 2008 7:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I also consider the "shhhh...don't even say or show it, lest we re-inforce the negativity" to be a load of crap. I understand the point of the section on framing and allow that there is some measure of truth to it, but its way overboard insofar as it supposes that people have no choice in how they react to media stimulation. To my mind that's just falling subject to the politics of fear in a big way.
After all, should we let the politics of fear be an influence on the "The Politics of Fear"?
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Posted by: justgreenleaf on Jul 14, 2008 7:40 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: PressurePoint on Jul 14, 2008 7:41 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By inference, and based upon some of the other opinions expressed here, it really does look like the work of some smart-assed Ivy league frat boys whose sense of entitlement is threatened by the success of a self-made black man from Chicago.
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» RE: The problem I have with this is that it is
Posted by: pizzmoe
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Posted by: cori on Jul 14, 2008 7:42 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: old lefty on Jul 14, 2008 7:44 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A real biting attack on Obama would have been not to parady the right's perception of him as the cover does but perhaps to point out the authoritarian style implicit in his mass rallies. (this is not only the 40th anniversary year of the march on Washington but the 70th anniversary year of the Nurenberg rally). Calm down leftie-- I'm being "out there" in a Yippie sort of way.
But a serious point would be that the left should be scared of mass demonstrations that pay homage to individuals rather than ideas and that certain south american populists masquerading as socialists are not our role models in style or substance.
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» RE: If I can't dance...
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: If I can't dance...
Posted by: culheath
» RE: If I can't dance...
Posted by: culheath
» RE: If I can't dance...
Posted by: Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BettynotWilma on Jul 14, 2008 7:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There have been plenty of studies that demonstrate the unintended consequences when "satire" is used to direct a message. In order to "get" the satire-you have know the truth of the situation. Unfortunately, the pic on the front of the magazine feeds into the internet rumor mill that lots of folks believe as true. The cover of the mag only reinforces their beliefs. Love our 1st Amendment of Freedom of Speech...unfortunately it doesn't always equate with freedom to know the truth.
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Posted by: nolafugees on Jul 14, 2008 7:58 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
According to HL Mencken, "Freedom of the press is limited to those who have one," and Conde Nast indeed does have one, and has the ear of many an East Coast middle-mind. In fact, I imagine there is a great deal of crossover readership between Alternet & the NY'er, and I know that the average consumer of the NY'er already leans toward a Babylon of their own identity politics.
That this readership should live in fear of the hoi barbaroi of our republic says a great deal about the state of the Left in the American political dialogue. But then, Alternet asks you to donate to help publish their "election guide," (for a mere $50, you get a copy of a $4 book) and just last week ran a story that called Chris Hitchens a fascist.
So no wonder the Democrats have gotten dusted in the past two Presidential elections; the "radical" base of the Right has no fear, operates with an army of media Jackboots (lol...Orwell), while the Left relies on a media that considers it "irresponsible" to critique the very unwashed masses necessary to win an American national election.
Hazen's editorial decision to scrub rough satire from his publication is an editorial decision, and his to make. The argument of "frames" is valid, but fails to acknowledge the editorial rights of other publications to approach valid arguments (i.e. criticizing the Obama prejudice) through the use of Satire.
For the sake of the Enlightenment, Alternet, Man Up.
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Posted by: KAEL on Jul 14, 2008 8:12 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» The "Delusional Right" Laughs Loudest (and on the radio too!)
Posted by: mcubed
» RE: Out of the Wilderness of Denial the Voice of Truth And Reason
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: zipper696 on Jul 14, 2008 8:15 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Center: TV camera with "Fox News" logo on side pointing at them.
Left Side:A monitor with the cover image we are discussing here.
See? Then you get the reality and the nutjob's distorted images as exemplified by Faux News.
Just my 5c worth....
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» RE: Here's what SHOULD have been on the cover
Posted by: Figfest
» RE: Here's what SHOULD have been on the cover
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: hcb1975 on Jul 14, 2008 8:21 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Who's goddamn talking about censorship??
Posted by: hagwind
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Posted by: Paul Cardwell on Jul 14, 2008 8:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Paul Cardwell
Posted by: pomes
» RE: Paul Cardwell
Posted by: phatkhat
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Posted by: svlaws on Jul 14, 2008 8:27 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Equating an incredibly popular, mainstream presidential candidate with a man who is responsible for murdering thousands of people on American soil? Pretty sick.
I am not the arbiter of what is funny, but I have a sense of common decency. So should the New Yorker.
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» RE: Satire yes, of course, but...
Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: Exactly what is funny about an afro?
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: Southern Gal on Jul 14, 2008 8:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: davy on Jul 14, 2008 8:30 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: pomes on Jul 14, 2008 8:31 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The caricature was intended for the more intelligent, more sophisticated, more literate audience, who understands concepts such as satire.
These are the same people who would have been up in arms in Johnathon's Swift day for his satirical proposal that we should eat the poor.
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» Oh come on! Satire != IQ
Posted by: DanoM
» RE: Oh come on! Satire != IQ
Posted by: pomes
» RE: New Yorker might be too high-IQ for its current firestorm
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: New Yorker might be too high-IQ for its current firestorm
Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: New Yorker might be too high-IQ for its current firestorm
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: New Yorker might be too high-IQ for its current firestorm
Posted by: a_momcat
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Posted by: DanoM on Jul 14, 2008 9:02 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think that most New Yorker readers/subscribers are used to satirical cartoons that make a point. I grew up in a household where satire was frequently the comedy of choice, so I get it, but many in the rest of America will see it as an enforcement of their stereotypes. That's why I'm in favor of captions for the satirically impaired. A one liner at the bottom that says something like "Conservative Fears" would help those people put it into context.
When I was in 7th grade studying American history our textbook had several historic cartoons and caricatures, but without context explaining them and pointing out that they were reinforcing or making fun of an idea we didn't know what they meant. Political cartoons are best when they are edgy, but context is everything when it comes to interpreting them.
It will be interesting to see what comes of this one! I can only imagine the emails that this will be sent along with...
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» RE: New Yorker readers will understand, but others maybe not
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: New Yorker readers will understand, but others maybe not
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com
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Posted by: taxidriver on Jul 14, 2008 9:08 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm sure the intent was humorous and satirical, but the result was racist, insensitive, and highly offensive. For those independents and other voters who haven't already made up their minds, images like this can be quite powerful in influencing their vote. Again, many people vote on "gut" instinct, and the more these images proliferate, the greater the chance they'll influence people by raising insidious doubts.
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» Now that is a true indictment of these voters if that is the case!
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: You can't go 3 feet without running into an American or Confederate flag down here
Posted by: desidid
» the good news is they are now only about 7% of the population....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: I Saw A Friend At The Grocery Store The Other Day And She
Posted by: desidid
» Where is "down here"??? I am curious because that isn't true in...
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: helenwheels on Jul 14, 2008 9:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find it sort of funny that I've known, all my life, about flag protocol and what you are supposed to and not supposed to do to and/or with the flag. Why are flag-humping rightwingers that last to know how to honor the flag they so vehemently stand behind?
I'm no jingoist, in fact, I actually think flags are bullshit. But I couldn't resist posting about the blatant stupidity of the neocons & conservatives & bible-humpers on this topic. If everyone spreads the word, that WEARING the flag or DRAWING on the flag or making things OUT OF FLAGS is against protocol maybe the righties will shut the hell up already about the goddamn FLAG PIN.
Conservatives love to desecrate the flag
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» RE: Just on the "flag burning" thing
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Just on the "flag burning" thing
Posted by: helenwheels
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Posted by: madamedestael on Jul 14, 2008 9:17 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Salon of old is no more, replaced by this new, HillaryClinton.com, Obama-bashing and trashing theme.
Even from back in the earliest days after Obama declared, Debra Dickerson was over at Salon posting her "Obama's not really Black, he's an African African-American" drivel.
And then, of course, we have editor Joan Walsh's formulaic "I'm concerned about Obama's _____ (fill in blank)" blog headlines.
And these are just the tip of the iceberg. A week doesn't go by without several overt or subtle anti-Obama pieces in Salon.
Walsh was and remains a Hillary fanatic and an open Obama detractor, and Salon's coverage since 2007 has been assigned and written through that biased and skewed filter. Even the occasional positive article about Obama will get a totally skewed headline and graphic, meant to misdirect.
That is why a group of us have created Salon: the Parody -- to satirize the complete absurdity of Salon in the last 18 months, its ineffectual and harping primary coverage, and its seeming commitment to bashing Obama -- when they're not damning him with faint praise of course.
The only way to survive what Salon has become -- besides reading a lot more Alternet and HuffPo of course -- is to laugh...because otherwise, we'd cry.
Thanks Don Hazen, for seeing through Salon and telling it like it is.
Mme DeStael
Salon: the Parody
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» RE: Finally Someone Realizes What Salon is Up To...
Posted by: Estlin
» RE: Finally Someone Realizes What Salon is Up To...
Posted by: pomes
» Bookmarked already, thank you!
Posted by: war_on_tara
» Ah, I see you do address that subject
Posted by: war_on_tara
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Posted by: mberg on Jul 14, 2008 9:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: donnal on Jul 14, 2008 9:22 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is only a start if he becomes the candidate...
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» RE: donnal
Posted by: halweiner
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Posted by: gazzeravl on Jul 14, 2008 9:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Aaaah, its so refreshing to get the truth put out like that..... thanks.
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: Lenny L on Jul 14, 2008 9:34 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This cartoon hits every target perfectly. Its an hilarious sendup of everything the Right wants you to believe about Obama and shows you how ridiculous it is. Plus its visually stunning. This is Art folks - in fact it's political art at its best.
Anyone who takes it seriously as a critique of Obama is so far to the right they're hopeless anyway. The rest of you "poor offended lefties" need to get some perspective on life. Go see some Marx Brothers, have a drink, smoke a joint - do something to open up your arteries.
On a wild guess I'd wager it was drawn by Art Spiegelman who also did the classic New Yorker cover during the Crown Heights affair of a Hassidic man kissing an African American woman. That one raised a rucus as well.
This will endure as a classic example of satire and go down as one of the great New Yorker covers. Anyone here old enough to remember "The Realist" magazine? Its great to see that tradition lives on.
Lenny Levy
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» oops - its not Art Spiegelman.
Posted by: Lenny L
» RE: oops - its not Art Spiegelman.
Posted by: culheath
» RE: oops - its not Art Spiegelman.
Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: oops - its not Art Spiegelman.
Posted by: culheath
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Posted by: pdxjoe on Jul 14, 2008 9:35 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The dirty-work of the Right Wing is this very article that rallies its audience against its own freedom (of the press that is), but worse under the pretenses of supporting the ostensibly progressive candidate. We are responsible to each other in a lot of ways, but it is up to us to think for ourselves and make our own decisions. If there are those out there who cannot do that or do it well, it's not our responsibility to think for them, because in the process we stop thinking of ourselves.
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» RE: Good Satire
Posted by: culheath
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Posted by: Pax99 on Jul 14, 2008 9:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In their context I would have found it much more amusing because inside they would have pounded their meaning into the most moronic mind....Rush would have gotten it if someone read it to him.
On the New Yorker, it's a less amusing because of the credibility critters like Coulter and Faux News can, and most likely will, spin off of it. Not to say they'd not trash the New Yorker as elitist the second the New Yorker has at Bush or McCain, just sayin'.
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» RE: If I'd been shown the graphic...
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» the intent of the cartoon
Posted by: nap
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Posted by: ssjknux on Jul 14, 2008 9:41 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: willymack on Jul 14, 2008 9:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Are you saying those on here are knuckle draggers????
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: rmorte62 on Jul 14, 2008 9:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: trotskytime
Posted by: desidid
» RE: trotskytime
Posted by: helenwheels
» You pegged that one big time.
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: PandaBear on Jul 14, 2008 9:57 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Responsibility For What?
Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: nd of a legacy
Posted by: ChrisBrown
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Posted by: mcartri on Jul 14, 2008 10:15 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Blitt, please draw the following satirical cover: John McCain, a recently returning POW, is in bed with his lover, Cindy, engaged in a traditional sex act. The covers are back, and on McCain's abdomen are various medals. Sitting next to the bed, in a wheelchair, is McCain's wife, Carol. She was in a terrible auto accident while her husband was a POW in Vietnam. Carol was disfigured and crippled from going thru the windshield, spending six-months in the hospital. Since this is just satire, you can place a box of Depends and Viagra in the scene. This is really funny stuff. Fox News and the Right Wing will thank you. You say you can't do that cover about McCain because...Hello, hello, are you there? Hello...
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» RE: McCain and Cindy in Aldultery Motel
Posted by: pomes
» RE: Not A Good Cover A Great Cover
Posted by: desidid
» Yeah, but....
Posted by: morticia
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Posted by: pomes on Jul 14, 2008 10:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: ceraiteri on Jul 14, 2008 10:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Pirate1 on Jul 14, 2008 10:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I will vote for the man because he's not McCain or another Bush, not because I agree with much of his stated views of late. (I was for Kucinich) There is just a feeling, likely wishful on my part I'll admit, that somehow Obama would be more likely to listen to the people than McCain. His apparent notion that Afganistan is somehow the "good" war, that we should get out of Iraq and focus there is as mad an idea as any that has come down the pike from either party.
If the average American had any understanding of what a terrorist cell is and how they operate, then attacking any country to "end terrorism" would be seen as the tragically absurd notion that it is. All this does is drive fear in the home population so the corporate/government powers that be can have free reign to use military force to change regimes they don't like in the name of fighting terror. A couple of decades ago the term was communism or as Cap Weinberger would say fifty times in each press conference, the "Soviet Threat".
Power structures like our military have evolved in preparation for nation against nation warfare.
They go in and smash nations that had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks because that's all that they know how to do, all the tools they have are for doing that. The notion of terrorist cells is totally misunderstood. They render massive militaries like our own obsolete. There is no top down command center involved to defeat, no leader you can kill and "win". No infrastructure to destroy to cripple their production. These are people who have lost everything through corporate and military brutality who collectively vow to deliver some kind of payback. Most never get the chance but occasionally one succeeds and in this case, buildings symbolic to millions worldwide of capitalist oppression and disregard of local custom and religion fell down... with tragic loss of lives. All the people in that cell are now dead. We don't realize in our busy day to day lives how many more people in far away countries die every week from the excesses of corporate greed and that American sense of entitlement to whatever it might need.
But it's far easier to follow the leader or let the pundits be substitute for any real thought on our part. Our spectator sport mentality kicks in and we're out there to WIN! b'gawd... We need to learn to respect people, treat them fairly, not pay their government leaders and provide them the maens to oppress their populations so they do work US workers would get $30 and hour for 1 or 2 dollars a day. No, that would involve a bit toomuch self examination. Having to say we fucked up and are sorry. It's more important to be top dog. Number one. Until that changes, there will always be people from somewhere looking for payback.
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» RE: Lament the left's lack of a sense of humor...
Posted by: culheath
» RE: Lament the left's lack of a sense of humor...
Posted by: G.Achin
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Posted by: ACoalier on Jul 14, 2008 10:32 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: ATH on Jul 14, 2008 10:47 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
satire...The fact that they believe the stories FOX news puts out is a prime example of
this.
I was talking to my step-father's son, who is a hardcore republican, and he truly believed that Barack Obama had attended a Muslim school.
I explained to him that CNN had investigated this story and found it to be completely false.
The school, I told him, was entirely secular. I'm not sure he understood what the word "secular" meant, and he considered CNN to be a "liberal" media outlet. I almost lost it with that one. Everyone continues to always talk about the "liberal media."
Maybe it's just me, but I don't see this "liberal media," at least not in the mainstream media. What I see is a mainstream media heavily weighted towards the neo-conservative agenda, which is completely at odds with traditional conservative values, like protecting our Civil Liberties, smaller government, and staying out of foreign entanglements. They used to be the party that helped protect the Constitution.
These Neocons are the complete opposite: corrupt, Empire-building, out of control spending, Constitution destroying (especially the Bill of Rights), and nation- policing mad-
men. Because of them, we are living in a country that has lost all respect from the world community, has engaged in the same kind of pre-emptive, aggressive, un-declared warfare
for which we hanged a lot of Germans at Nuremburg; they have violated the Geneva Conventions by torturing and humiliating POWs; they have suspended habeus-corpus and held many innocent men without charging them, and convicted many in a complete mockery of a real Trial.They have continued to use 9/11 as a
political tool. One of McCain's political advisors even went so far as to say another terrorist attack would help their campaign...and then they wonder why some of us believe 9/11 to have been a false-flag terrorist event that was either made to happen or allowed to happen. They claim they need this new FISA legislation, which has nearly destroyed the 4th amendment, to get early warnings about terrorist attacks...Yet, George W. Bush and his administration receeived warnings from nearly every ally we have; he called off surveillance on bin Laden. Yet, they took the threat seriously enough to warn their own, who began flying in private jets instead of commercial airplanes. But when the first tower was struck, they told everyone in the other tower to stay put, even though the towers had been a terrorist target for years!
They said they never imagined such a scenario, but then it turns out that they were conducting war game exercises which exactly mimicked what was actually taking place, and put false radar blips on the radar screens of our fighter pilots, which is what prevented them from being able to react to the situation.
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Posted by: mistery509 on Jul 14, 2008 10:54 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But no, it has started. With the help of the media, the sheep will read this article and vote for George's clone.
Yes, it is sad. America could have a great president but front page covers like this will be seen around the world and the rest of the world can see this country sinking lower and lower. Maybe, even God can't save America.
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» RE: So the fun begins
Posted by: edith
» RE: So the fun begins
Posted by: mistery509
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Posted by: dbarber on Jul 14, 2008 11:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because there is a bigger picture here. If The New Yorker were to apologize for this, they would be finished. Oh, the magazine would still be published, at least for a while, but the precedent would be set. Don't like what's in this week's issue? Cancel your subscription, boycott their advertisers, do whatever you have to do, because we know they'll cave and promise never to do it again.
I receive the AFA bulletin. They don't take on battles against publications they know will fight back. There's something daunting about a boycott resulting in a six-month expose of Donald Wildmon. He knows who not to pick fights with.
And, quite frankly, that is what distinguishes the New Yorker from a publication like the Washington Times, or a media outlet like Fox News. Once they make a decision to publish your work, be it reportage, fiction, or criticism, they stand behind it. They don't disown something just because someone got offended. If they print something with factual errors, they will acknowledge and correct it, but they know they can't afford to second guess themselves every time someone complains, just because it doesn't fit in with that person's particular agenda.
While I imagine the majority of the staff at the New Yorker would prefer Obama as president (and I have no problem with Rolling Stone, for that matter, openly endorsing him, as long as they are honest about it) it is not their job to get him elected. They are not required to filter everything through "What will the rednecks think?" glasses. Part of freedom of speech is freedom to risk being misunderstood. If the people who most rely on freedom of speech "tone it down now, at least until The Most Important Election of Our Lives is over" there is no guarantee they will regain their courage.
And they will have shown themselves unworthy of it to boot.
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» You do get the idea
Posted by: edith
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Posted by: Christie on Jul 14, 2008 11:15 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» How about Promoting Laughs?
Posted by: edith
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Posted by: Ghoulman on Jul 14, 2008 11:22 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the same reaction... confusion. Is it racist? Can't this be published? What's it really mean!?!?!?
Artistic intent, the point of the authors, and the magazine don't matter a wit anymore, it's all about the burden many people feel (on whatever side you label yourself, ya fools) about how they 'should' feel about the cartoon.
Goes to show what a paranoid, racist, world we live in. We can't even make a political cartoon (media centric and navel gazing as it might be), a form famous for juxtaposing imagery. It's still satire well in tune with what the general media in the USA is on about... and the general media in the USA is incredibly racist. My Goddess; TIME magazine gave famously bigoted Rush Limbaugh star treatment.
Really, the earnest hand wringing of this article and the confusion shows how privilaged media wonks really should look beyond their little media world and try to see the reality of their own bigotries.
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» Laughter Must Serve "Correct" Causes?
Posted by: edith
» RE: Laughter Must Serve "Correct" Causes?
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Laughter Must Serve "Correct" Causes?
Posted by: edith
» RE: Laughter Must Serve "Correct" Causes?
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Laughter Must Serve "Correct" Causes?
Posted by: outsideagitator
» RE: Laughter Must Serve "Correct" Causes?
Posted by: Quannah
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Posted by: leighsure on Jul 14, 2008 11:30 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One of the things that I love about Mort Sahl is that he skewered anybody that was deserving, no matter their politics, age or race. Anybody younger than 50 would be wise to look into his take on the world. And Mark Twain's as well.
This whole article and response is a monumental waste of time. Can we get back to the activism needed to counter the dying throes of the Corporate Greed Administration and its minions, please?
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» RE: What A Load of Crap
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: madamedestael on Jul 14, 2008 11:46 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
collage of Salon headlines for a sense of what Salon is really about.
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» who ya callin uppity?
Posted by: edith
» RE: who ya callin uppity?
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: mike_burns on Jul 14, 2008 11:57 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now for some sober facts. The New Media is a money making business. For 150yrs the news media knows that they have to create news to make money. That is the real reason they backed the war in the first place. I Obama slaughters Mckane at the ballot box, it's not news. They stretched the democratic primaries and made a fortune off of it. They don't really care who wins. They just want another election decided by the Supreme Court. They made a fortune off the last time that happened. They have to make it into a good horse race for profits.
There is the left agenda. There is the right agenda, and there is the Media agenda. It has nothing to do with politics. It has all to do with MONEY!
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» RE: At Long Last
Posted by: LeeAnnG
» ignorant who???
Posted by: a_momcat
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Posted by: Kym525 on Jul 14, 2008 12:02 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The mainstream media has done all it can to paint the Obama family as some sort of secret radical islamic terrorists with their "fist jab"--as if Obama being Muslim is a bad thing (we've allowed our prejudices courtesy of the Bush administration to run riot). Michelle Obama, the so-called former ABW (Angry Black Woman) has been "whitewashed" into the kind of woman America is comfortable with. They ran with the whole Reverend Wright and Father Phfleger bruhaha and made the right wing very happy by catering to the worst stereotypes of the mob mentality, without ONCE questioning whether it was really news. Moreso, few in the mainstream media bothered to question why it is we think a private matter like religion became a front and center issue--and yes, we have the far-right wackjobs to thank for that.
What I find telling about the posters who are so upset over this cover, are the same ones who sit silent as their fellow "liberals" and the conservative trolls who lurk post the most negative comments whenever alternet has an article about black people and black life.
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» Let It ALL hang out-yes?
Posted by: edith
» RE: Let It ALL hang out-yes?
Posted by: Kym525
» RE: Let It ALL hang out-yes?
Posted by: culheath
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Posted by: silverstreak on Jul 14, 2008 12:04 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I felt like I was punched in the heart.../Get it cut out then
Posted by: edith
» RE: I felt like I was punched in the heart.../Get it cut out then
Posted by: culheath
» Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.........
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Kati on Jul 14, 2008 12:16 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm afraid the New Yorker cover is a reflection of a deep rooted, albeit at times unconscious, racism. It seems manifested in the statement: "I'm not racist, I treat Obama just like every other politician?" But that isn't true. Instead, these people are using this sort of statement to actually give themselves the right to be as racist as they come. Can you imagine the New Yorker using racist and sexist stereotypes involving other groups? What if their next cover represented Olmert, the Prime Minister of Israel, performing a blood sacrifice of a Christian baby? Its aim would be to satirize still circulating (check the Internet) notions of this medieval myth. But would it work and what would happen if the magazine did this? Yet that cover would be the exact equivalent of the Obama cover. As many posts have noted, there are many potential voters who are convinced that what the cover depicts is true. And then there are all the secret racists who would deny that race plays any part in their voting decision but who nonetheless would find an excuse not to vote for an African American. Just as they would have found an excuse not to vote for a woman.
I almost cried when I saw the New Yorker cover (my magazine ended up in the trash!) and now I have to expect seeing it again on newsstands, libraries and, for years to come, in the doctor’s office... It seems to me there's so much selfishness and arrogance in a number of individuals and institutions who are thought of as liberal. They don't seem to care if we end up with four more years of McBush as long as they personally are not the ones on the receiving end of unemployment and other social ills, not to mention the much worse fate of being on the receiving end of bombs, unlawful detention and torture...
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» Oh please
Posted by: edith
» RE: Oh please
Posted by: culheath
» RE: Oh please
Posted by: a_momcat
» RE: Oh please yourself!
Posted by: Kati
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Posted by: funnyguy on Jul 14, 2008 12:23 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Missing the point
Posted by: LeeAnnG
» Your comment is perfect
Posted by: funnyguy
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Posted by: Luciana on Jul 14, 2008 12:34 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: When Satire is Unacceptable, Democracy is Dead
Posted by: desidid
» Satire Has Nothing to do with Democracy
Posted by: mcartri
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Posted by: realveive on Jul 14, 2008 12:43 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: lorenbliss on Jul 14, 2008 12:53 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hence, for example, the deliberate degradation of debate in our national election process: from the at least semi-informed discussions characteristic of the New Deal Era (how else did Roosevelt win?) to the low-grade soap opera of today: the very soap opera satirically represented by The New Yorker's cover and reproduced in full-tantrum real-world fury by the resultant political hissy.
That said, after the McBama/O'Cain FISA betrayal, I simply don't give a damn about any of these teapot dramas. Neither candidate represents me or the working class of which I am a member. Indeed, the only reason I have for participating in national elections at all is that not voting is an act of surrender: it concedes to the ruling class the very victory they have always sought. The more of us don't vote, the easier it is for the ruling class to nullify the electoral process or abolish it completely. In any case, following Obama's FISA treachery, I have tuned out and turned off the entire campaign -- dropping it as I would any other example of no-talent histrionics that pander to stupidity and insult the intelligence of the few of us who have managed (typically at huge and terrible cost), to retain some degree of mindfulness.
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» RE: Moron Nation Doesn't Understand
Posted by: culheath
» How Is Not Voting an Act of Surrender?
Posted by: a_momcat
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Posted by: vangogh69 on Jul 14, 2008 12:58 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I must be the only one...
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: LeeAnnG on Jul 14, 2008 1:05 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I read the comments here on Alternet and appreciate both points of view, that it's offensive because many people won't understand it and also that some people might be too sensitive. (I strenuously object to all the "PC" nonsense. "PC" really has no coherent meaning and saying something is "too PC" is mainly used as an excuse to be rude.)
However, I also read quite a few comments on Huffington Post, and I was amazed that the trolls on that site actually seemed to think the Obamas themselves were the objects of the satire. One wrote something to the effect that "Oh, it's ok to show the president and other conservatives in a bad light, but when it's done to Obama, all the liberals get upset." Some even commented that there's an element of truth to the cover itself and that the Obamas really are as shown.
These rightwingers really did not get it at all. So obviously, some of the reaction to the picture might be justified. It surely does seem that there are a lot of people with predispositions against Barack Obama who would take the depictions as "essentially true" even if exaggerated.
A little more perspective, like making the picture a rightwing dream in a bubble or even the title of the article prominently displayed on the cover would probably have been a good idea. I think doing it as it is was probably a mistake.
Sometimes a thing seems great at the time, but in retrospect, it may be foolish or poorly considered. If the notion of the Obamas as unpatriotic, militant fist bumping, Muslim, America-hating radicals were not so common among the less-educated Fox viewers, there would be no problem.
A young friend recently asked me why people refer to Obama as a "towel head." I was stunned, but she said she'd heard a waitress say that in the Cracker Barrel and didn't know why since "his father isn't from Iraq." Yikes! The level of ignorance is unimaginable among many, many rural populations. If someone was inclined to believe the rumors, this cover is not going to have the intended impact, and will probably have exactly the opposite effect.
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Posted by: mimosa1036 on Jul 14, 2008 1:14 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please, please re-read Mr. Hazen's article. He speaks the absolute truth of the situation. My parents were very active Conservative Republicans; curiously I did not agree with them, even as a child, but I did get to study that side quite closely. I am 57 now, and still cannot understand why the Right Wing thinks as it does. What I do know is that they are fearful, and will therefore always, always win at the attack game. Conservatives are truly afraid of Barack and Michelle Obama, because they are going to spoil their game! Conservatives need to sway the people in the middle toward feeling all their prejudices through fear, and we need those people to feel confident and hopeful about the future. Yes, we can!
Many people really do think Barack took his oath of office on the Koran (which they perceive as a problem), although that was another public servant. They truly see red when they even think about someone defiling the flag, and they actually believe that silly idea about Mr. Obama not respecting the flag because he doesn't wear a stupid flag pin in his lapel. (Thanks, George Stephanopolis.) We have to move beyond this kindergarten thinking.
The New Yorker cover was fit for The National Review. The drawing is not funny in the least, because it gives ammo to the fearmongers. Maybe Roz Chast could come up with a New Yorker cover that is truly funny that wouldn't rely on tasteless, offensive images. Let's leave the comedy to the professionals (Mahar, Stewart, Colbert, e.g.) the ones who actually know how to make everyone laugh AND THINK.
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Posted by: J. Bo on Jul 14, 2008 1:28 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don, stop perpetuating the "humorless liberal" stereotype. I'm becoming as exasperated with AlterNet lately as you have (apparently) become with Salon and The New Yorker.
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» Oops
Posted by: J. Bo
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Posted by: Kym525 on Jul 14, 2008 2:06 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I said it once before--if Barack and Michelle were from Nickerson Gardens in Watts and he had a mouthful of gold teeth and her middle name was Laquisha and was on welfare--no one would bat an eyelash, but the mainstream media has done such a great job of stereotyping people of color that to see the Obamas as successful black people seems to be a shock. After all, even here in the "holiest" of liberal media sites, I come across some of the most hate-filled and stereotype-laden posts from people whom I believed were far more educated and better exposed than the garden-variety racists to be found on Stormfront.org.
Frankly, the New Yorker cover is a much needed slap in the face to those who are so quick to point out the racism of others, but totally ignore their own racism. One need not wear a sheet and burn crosses anymore.
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 14, 2008 2:26 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» The truly corresponding cover for McCain...
Posted by: morticia
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Posted by: zoonerian on Jul 14, 2008 2:27 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now, if Obama were White...
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Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Jul 14, 2008 2:28 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Has anyone on your staff interviewed the Obamas? What was the purpose of this?
Were you trying to be funny or appease to a certain population? You have no proof they live life like that. What will you say to their children? I'm surprised you didn't dress them in Hitler Youth uniforms.
This is Yellow Journalism at its worst. In order to sell magazines you chose an awful caricature of incredible stereotypes. You're Swift Boating them or Willie Hortonizing the Obamas. And this is 2008. Well, you proven we still have a long, long way to go for the media to get its act together.
Both are Christians; how could you label them as something different?
What next, New Yorker? If he loses the presidential election, we can lay some of the blame on you.
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» RE: Yellow Journalism Redux
Posted by: culheath
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Posted by: cm4297 on Jul 14, 2008 2:42 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Obama is a Victim of A Society that Expects Nothing...
Posted by: Kym525
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Posted by: orionsan on Jul 14, 2008 2:50 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hyper-PC sensibilites are going to be seen as relics in a rocking chair, once the future gets here. Once a black man becomes "the Man," what do you suppose will happen next? Maybe we can then move on to the real divisions in this country, the class divisions.
The American public is not stupid or ignorant, they just don't pay attention to a process that has ignored them for decades, why should they? Maybe we here are the fools wasting our breath.
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Posted by: gr8shoes on Jul 14, 2008 2:51 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: verybody lighten up!
Posted by: ohb0b
» RE: verybody lighten up!
Posted by: daniel1982
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Posted by: BettynotWilma on Jul 14, 2008 2:52 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: And consider the context
Posted by: ohb0b
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Posted by: ohb0b on Jul 14, 2008 2:54 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its satire, and more important, it is satirizing the rant-wing noise machine, and exposing the stupidity and desperation they are resorting to.
Ask yourself: If a radical Islamist group wanted to place a "mole" in the highest level of US Government, would they go with a black guy named Barak Hussein?
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» RE: Lighten up!
Posted by: daniel1982
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Posted by: QQOblivion on Jul 14, 2008 2:59 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Judging by the comments here (and their ratings) I would say that the far-Right's mission to split liberals from each other is almost complete.
The fact that a big deal has been made about this cover and the fact that the story of the cover is all over the mainstream media and blogosphere has helped cement the image in American's mind that Obama IS a terrorist. For Americans will think to themselves: "Hmmmm. I'z know I heard somewheres that 'bama is a terr'ist whoze burns dee 'merican flag." If it weren't for the controversy, then the rednecks wouldn't have known about the cover.
Go ahead and rate my post down. I don't care. My only sin is posting a comment to this article in the first place. Because I too have contributed to the mess that will probably help elect John McCain in November by posting here.
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» RE: The Controversy Itself Is The Enemy
Posted by: orionsan
» Oooh, quit worrying will you? McCain is the absolute biggest loser....
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: Mr Arkadin on Jul 14, 2008 3:13 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now, then, this New Yorker cover.
The first thing that occurs to me is the unanswerable precision with which it demonstrates the late, lamented Richard Rorty's observation that irony is unsuitable for public discourse.
The second thing is that the New Yorker that some of us old-timers (b. 1946) grew up worshiping has been gone since William Shawn was fired.The fact that many great writers -- Seymour Hersh, David Denby, James Surowiecki, Anthony Lane, &c. -- are still published there doesn't change that.
The third and final point is that this cover is not the first, and by no means the most egregious, of the magazine's gross political mis-steps. When the young smartass Ryan Lizza likened Senator Clinton to both a "Terminator"-like cyborg and a zombie in the very first sentence of a greasily unfair article about the primary season -- while bending over backward to give Sen. Obama the benefit of every doubt -- I stopped consulting the publication. (It's okay with me if Sen. Obama gets held up for ridicule. It can only be good for him.) Anyway, there have been at least a half a dozen articles by Seymour Hersh in the last few years, any one of which should have brought down this criminal, illegitimate administration. But they didn't -- they didn't even slow it down. But now darling Sen. Obama has been lampooned, and the synthetic outrage is deafening.
Gerald Carpenter
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» Lets see if understand this right... your going to vote for a guy.....
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: drricklippin on Jul 14, 2008 3:14 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To me it demonstrates that the editors of the NEW YORKER actually believe that the world begins and ends with its very elite and limited readership.
This is an extreme degree of hubris and "intellectual isolationism" leading to a gross error in editorial judgement?
An apology at least if not firings are in order.
Dr.Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa
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» RE: The Perils of Intellectual Elitism
Posted by: orionsan
» RE: The Perils of Intellectual Elitism
Posted by: keletsanatal
Comments are closed-
Posted by: a_momcat on Jul 14, 2008 3:15 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why are so many people acting as though being called a Muslim is akin to being called a heinous criminal? It is, only if you believe that Islam is a blood-thirsty, terrorist religion! Christianity and Judaism have each produced more than their share of terrorists through the centuries (think Crusades and the invasion and occupation of Iraq for the former), but it takes faulty logic and ignorance to conclude that all people who practice these or Islam are terrorists.
I was very disappointed that Obama accepted this frame. He could have used the opportunity to try to introduce some sanity and intellect into the discourse, by saying, "You make it sound as though being Muslim is by definition a bad thing: although I am not a Muslim, I don't see how it is any worse than being a Christian or a Jew."
You may know the linguistic construct behind the frame, Mr. Hazen, but that doesn't stop your feeding the frame machinery, either regarding TTBW... or the one equating all the people of Islam to 9/11. That's your bad.
E L Cobb
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» RE: Don Hazen -- You Are Using a Frame Created by Hate-Mongers and Don't Even Know It!!!
Posted by: edith
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Posted by: wildbill on Jul 14, 2008 3:16 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My college-degreed uncle, a reasonably intelligent person, used to watch "All in the Family" and cheer for Archie Bunker. He somehow missed the point that the series was poking fun at Archie's stereotypical white bigot, and he will probably miss the point of the Obama cover. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see him and others passing that cover cartoon around the Internet as quickly as possible, as another piece of anti-Obama propaganda!
Sorry, New Yorker, not funny.
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» sorry to disagree but...
Posted by: orionsan
» RE: sorry to disagree but...
Posted by: orionsan
» RE: Do you ever watch Jay Leno's "Jaywalking" segments?
Posted by: daniel1982
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Posted by: tbpmom56 on Jul 14, 2008 3:23 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I will continue to read it and I do not find the cover offensive or "racist".
Obama is a presidential candidate and is highly subject to caricatures. The coveris a mockery of the "fear" tactics that Fox loves to push.
Move on.
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» RE: Chill out.
Posted by: Quannah
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Posted by: QQOblivion on Jul 14, 2008 3:22 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A cartoon where Obama is doing the 'Heil Hitler' salute, with a Nazi flag next to him. Maybe there would be a picture of George Bush in the background. Meanwhile a copy of the US Constitution burns in the fireplace.
HA!
(To paraphrase Carol Kreck: Obama = Bush.)
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» I have decided to save this thread if they don't wipe out our hard drives
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: orionsan on Jul 14, 2008 3:32 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: realmuzik on Jul 14, 2008 3:41 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: This is the same magazine ...
Posted by: orionsan
» Really??? I thought he started a decade ago???? What was that ....
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: Sparks56 on Jul 14, 2008 3:50 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The New Yorker, in their usual biting, insightful manner, is pointing out the absurdity of the right's assertions about the Obamas.
The Left is showing itself to be as self-centered and childish as the Right is pompous and self-centerd.
Lighten up and laugh.
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Posted by: orionsan on Jul 14, 2008 3:58 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember that joke about 9-11? It wasn't funny. Squelching humor is one of the first priorities of a facist state. If you want to find facism - look for the humorless.
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Posted by: JWT on Jul 14, 2008 4:08 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: equal treatment
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: equal treatment
Posted by: JWT
» RE: equal treatment
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: equal treatment
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: equal treatment
Posted by: JWT
» RE: equal treatment
Posted by: hagwind
» I think it would be truer to show him as a weak, befuddled, lost, ...
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: deporres on Jul 14, 2008 4:08 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: orionsan on Jul 14, 2008 4:11 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now is time we tell joke. I know no joke, you tell joke.
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Posted by: YogiBear on Jul 14, 2008 4:35 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Absolutely, I agree!
Posted by: sicntired
» RE: Absolutely, I agree!
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: ericthefool on Jul 14, 2008 5:05 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you seriously still see Repubs -vs- Dems???
Right -vs- Left???
Conservatives -vs- Liberals???
This isn't a game people.
THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS!!!
They are in power for one reason.
They do what they do for one reason.
They both have the lowest approval ratings ever for one reason.
They are not in a court room, or jail because of one reason.
And all you people who think that it isn't this one reason...soon you will know the reason. The one reason is cold hard cash!!!
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» RE: Insanity!
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Insanity!
Posted by: sicntired
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Posted by: sofla100 on Jul 14, 2008 5:54 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: radical53 on Jul 14, 2008 5:55 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since I'm not running for office or acting as a spokesman for any campaign, I can say openly that I believe this country has failed.
There doesn't seem to be much else to say. I guess I'll go watch a movie.
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» RE: Too Late
Posted by: edith
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Posted by: RevAlexandra on Jul 14, 2008 6:24 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The NEW YORKER magazine MUST be held accountable for promoting people’s fears... The line between satirizing FEARS about Obama, AND FRAMING OBAMA is oh SO thin, in this cartoon. Our political climate is fragile & vulnerable as we urge the country forward to PROGRESSIVE Values... Because Humans have flocking tendencies in popular culture, we get easily dragged down to a lowest common denominator. We witnessed this in the Kerry “flip-flopping”, and the “Swift Boat” issue. BOTH of those were pure “Framing” for public consumption, by the Right-Wing spin factory. But the public swallowed it ~ hook, line and sinker... And WE Lost the Election in 2004, BECAUSE the public could not sort truth ~ from fiction.
Today’s New Yorker Cover is nothing short of OUTRAGEOUS!! EGREGIOUS, Mean-Spirited, and sinking to an all-time LOW for the New Yorker.... I would even dare to say it enters dan=gerous territory, by providing VISUAL fuel to the smoldering fire of “IS Obama Muslim “? Polls show that STILL 1 in every 12 Americans polled believe Obama is Muslim. When in FACT he IS, and has been for over 15 years CHRISTIAN.
BOYCOTT NEW YORKER mag & Their ADVERTISERS
AND
CANCEL your NEW YORKER Subscription
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Posted by: 220vBrain on Jul 14, 2008 7:09 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama himself is a glib,lying,dodging,flip-flopping, pandering joke of the highest degree, GET OVER IT! Bunch of cry babies!
What's next? Calling for the execution of the artist?
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» RE: Demi Gods and cartoonists
Posted by: sicntired
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Posted by: daniel1982 on Jul 14, 2008 8:14 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You forgot Clinton and her supporters. The photo with Obama in Muslim garb was leaked by the Clinton campaign after all. In fact, the first and most damaging attacks against Obama came from Clinton and her supporters during the primary run. It's funny to see alternet blaming conservatives for them.
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» RE: *Correction*
Posted by: sicntired
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Posted by: klife on Jul 14, 2008 8:30 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
New Yorker editors are paid to know the power, and influence of words and pictures. You are aware of the subconscious effect of words and pictures, and more importantly, you are aware of American history. In fact, you chronicle American history. You know, better than most that America is a nation struggling to cope with a profoundly racist and brutally inhumane tradition. Yet, your “judgment” allows you to suggest this cover is mere satire. I think most would agree that you have proven (although you like to position yourselves as progressive) to be as perverted (racially) as any in American history – albeit a tad more subtle.
You KNOW FULL WELL the residual effects of your DISRESPECTFUL and RACIST cover. You saw vogue get away with it (Lebron James) and you think you can do the same. But you should be aware, there are people determined to deal with these demented, sadistic, pathetic, racially-charged innuendos.
If you had any decency, you would offer multiple apologies, and you would issue follow-up covers. You have offended an entire race of people – the HUMAN RACE. However, organizations like yours traditionally stick to your "guns," and offer some sad, warmed-over, illogical, disjointed, tortured diatribe about “freedom of the press.” When everyone knows you wouldn’t dare green-light this below-the-belt insult with a “mainstream” candidate.
I heard one of your fellow madmen try to compare Dick Cheyney (with blood on his teeth) to your Obama-cover-debacle. But the problem there is that Dick really is responsible for many, many murders. So the exaggeration is acceptable. Your cover of Obama is not based in any truth. Therefore, it is not satire. It is racism – pure and simple. We understand that many don’t see it this way. But historically, many didn’t get that slavery was wrong, either. So at least we’re consistent.
I hope people of conscious come together and make sure that insensitive, arrogant. and racist editors are drummed out of legitimate journalism. I am going to get decent people to come together to let you know that VERY FEW ARE FOOLED. BY THE NEW YORKER MAGAZINE (hiding behind intellectualism) SMEAR.
Keith Benson
PS
Very few care what you actually write – because very few actually read it. You know that better than anybody.
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» RE: LETTER TO NEW YORKER MAGAZINE'S DAVID REMNICK
Posted by: edith
» Residual effects?
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sicntired on Jul 14, 2008 8:30 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Carl Rove
Posted by: DR. LARRY MITCHELL
» RE: Carl Rove
Posted by: edith
Comments are closed-
Posted by: klife on Jul 14, 2008 8:36 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
New Yorker editors are paid to know the power, and influence of words and pictures. You are aware of the subconscious effect of words and pictures, and more importantly, you are aware of American history. In fact, you chronicle American history. You know, better than most that America is a nation struggling to cope with a profoundly racist and brutally inhumane tradition. Yet, your “judgment” allows you to suggest this cover is mere satire. I think most would agree that you have proven (although you like to position yourselves as progressive) to be as perverted (racially) as any in American history – albeit a tad more subtle.
You KNOW FULL WELL the residual effects of your DISRESPECTFUL and RACIST cover. You saw vogue get away with it (Lebron James) and you think you can do the same. But you should be aware, there are people determined to deal with these demented, sadistic, pathetic, racially-charged innuendos.
If you had any decency, you would offer multiple apologies, and you would issue follow-up covers. You have offended an entire race of people – the HUMAN RACE. However, organizations like yours traditionally stick to your "guns," and offer some sad, warmed-over, illogical, disjointed, tortured diatribe about “freedom of the press.” When everyone knows you wouldn’t dare green-light this below-the-belt insult with a “mainstream” candidate.
I heard one of your fellow madmen try to compare Dick Cheyney (with blood on his teeth) to your Obama-cover-debacle. But the problem there is that Dick really is responsible for many, many murders. So the exaggeration is acceptable. Your cover of Obama is not based in any truth. Therefore, it is not satire. It is racism – pure and simple. We understand that many don’t see it this way. But historically, many didn’t get that slavery was wrong, either. So at least we’re consistent.
I hope people of conscious come together and make sure that insensitive, arrogant. and racist editors are drummed out of legitimate journalism. I am going to get decent people to come together to let you know that VERY FEW ARE FOOLED. BY THE NEW YORKER MAGAZINE (hiding behind intellectualism) SMEAR.
Keith Benson
PS
Very few care what you actually write – because very few actually read it. You know that better than anybody.
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Posted by: Ripcord on Jul 14, 2008 8:37 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can't wait to read the article inside to find out more of the truth.
Bob
from Idaho
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» It's A National Publication!
Posted by: edith
» A National Jewish Publication?
Posted by: Ripcord
» RE: 8 million New Yorkers are right
Posted by: Quannah
» Great, at least there is an article
Posted by: Ripcord
Comments are closed-
Posted by: douglashoyt on Jul 14, 2008 8:50 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Second, bad publicity is better than no publicity. The issue of ridiculous stereotypes should be aired for the public at large to learn something of the manipulation which plays in political campaigns.
Third, get over your self. Mr. Obama is not the most important person since Jesus Christ. Just maybe, we would be better off without him as president, seeing his position on important issues like FISA, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and imperial power of the USA. Would it not be nice to have people vote for a McKinney or Nader, and make one of them president instead of Obama or McCain?
Get over your self.
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» RE: Get Over Yourself
Posted by: keletsanatal
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Posted by: boneflute on Jul 14, 2008 9:44 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From the link above:
LETTERS TO THE EDITOR
To submit a letter in response to a New Yorker article for publication by the magazine, you may send an e-mail to themail@newyorker.com or
Fill out our Letters to the Editor form
(live link on website.)
Alternatively, letters may be sent by post to:
The Mail
The New Yorker
4 Times Square
New York, NY 10036
All letters should include your name, postal address, and daytime phone number. Letters may be edited for length and clarity, and may be published in any medium. All letters become the property of The New Yorker and will not be returned. We regret that, owing to the volume of correspondence, we cannot reply personally to every letter.
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Posted by: DR. LARRY MITCHELL on Jul 14, 2008 10:42 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unfortunately, it also catapults the agenda of the knuckle-dragging Right Wing-nuts as well as demonstrably illustrating why everything needs to be deliberately dumbed down in this society, for fear that the exposure of such bigotry might appear to endorse and promote it. It is unfortunate, but satire such as the New Yorker cover is on its last legs in this country, because so many fringe elements are opposed to critical thinking, and thusly and intentionally leap to take the worst scenario literally. They will scream offense, because they think it might benefit them. The United States has never been what one might refer as "high-brow", but there was at least the freedom in some quarters to exercise that elements of the imagination, but no more, and we are all the worse for it.
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Posted by: Lector on Jul 14, 2008 11:41 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The New Yorker is part of the conservative oligarchy
Posted by: keletsanatal
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Posted by: Urgelt on Jul 15, 2008 12:30 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The New Yorker cover is such an irony. It so perfectly captures the essence of American fear, hate, and racial prejudice that it is high art. It's a wonderful cover, a cover that tells us things about ourselves that we would prefer not to know.
That it can be trumpeted by the right-wing noisemakers only makes the irony more scrumptuous.
The cover reveals a truth about America: that we are hopelessly divided at the most fundamental level of perception and thought. What you see in this image reveals your politics. The cover proves your point, no matter what your point happens to be.
We on the Left are screaming about the cover because we think it can be used against Obama, but that is a delusion borne of our own fear, our fear that we will not succeed in driving the neocons and their corrupt, war-making, Constitution-shredding, economy-wrecking ways from power. It is false because the cover will change no-one's mind, only confirm what is already believed, passionately, deeply, on both sides.
If you do not like what you see on the Right, then you must defeat it, utterly. Drive them from power, drive them into faded memory, destroy their propaganda apparatus, reinfuse objectivity into news reporting, ensure fair and honest elections, remove the taint of their money from the political process, install honest government. Alas, this will not be accomplished by railing at the New Yorker, who has only done what we wish all media would do: tell us the truth, and make us think.
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Posted by: TerryS on Jul 15, 2008 12:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"But if the conclusion is not to engage in political
humor at all because conservatives can't get a joke
and will use such obvious sarcasm as cannon fodder,
then I suppose we should decry Jon Stewart and
Stephen Colbert for being Republican attack machines."
This might be big shock to you, but humor and
satire are *weapons*. Stephen Colbert uses
satire as a weapon against the right. That's why
the left loves the Stephen Colbert and the right
hates him (remember his White House speech,
the right-wing audience was not laughing).
It's one thing for the right to use humor and
satire to attack Obama (that's expected), but
it's quite another for the New Yorker (which is
supposed to be on our side) to do the same.
Because people on the left are generally a lot
funnier than people on the right, there is an
attitude among the left that all humor is all
good. But that is not the case:
Dave Chappelle
Sexist Humor
By the way, Don Hazen did an excellent job *framing*
the issue. A big reminder why I'm such a big fan
of Alternet!
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Posted by: Gretchen360 on Jul 15, 2008 1:51 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The New Yorker cover illustrates what the hate merchants say opening them up to ridicule and outrage.
It reminds me of the news footage of cops using fire hoses and attack dogs on the Selma marchers.
Those images helped pass the Civil Rights legislation.
God willing, the New Yorker cover will encourage us to take back our country.
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Posted by: desidid on Jul 15, 2008 6:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Figfest on Jul 15, 2008 7:01 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Holla on Jul 15, 2008 7:20 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: rockpicker on Jul 15, 2008 7:21 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The market's are collapsing. The economy is about to be crushed beneath the weight of increasing energy costs and we're getting ready to elect the corporate masters' candidate of choice. Great plan.
I gotta go change the water. Oh, and if anybody cares, silver is over $19 dollars and climbing, along with gold and oil. Better get it before it's too late.
Kunstler calls what happened Friday with Indymac the event horizon.
Doesn't everyone have something more pressing they should be doing?
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» RE: Alternet would rather have you arguing
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Alternet would rather have you arguing
Posted by: keletsanatal
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Gisele on Jul 15, 2008 8:02 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Vogue
W
style.com
Glamour
Allure
Self
Teen Vogue
GQ
Details
Men's Vogue
men.style.com
Architectural Digest
Brides
Modern Bride
Elegant Bride
Brides.com
Lucky
Domino
Cookie
Golf Digest
Golf World
Golf for Women
Vanity Fair
Gourmet
Bon Appétit
epicurious.com
Condé Nast Traveler
concierge.com
Wired
Wired.com
Condé Nast Portfolio
Portfolio.com
The New Yorker
For those willing to let their wallets do their talking for them, these are the ones to ignore on the store shelves next time you're "passin' thru."
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Posted by: pdxjoe on Jul 15, 2008 8:25 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The New Yorker cover, satirically or otherwise, does not attack Obama. It satirizes anti-Obama rhetoric. To see it as an attack on Obama is to already see it from, assume the validity of the perspective of Right Wing Spin. When under the pretense of a Left Wing publication, assuming this perspective and making interpretations from it is doing the Right Wing's dirty-work for them.
There's no reason to interpret the cover as an attack on Obama, least of all offered by Don Hazen. Some of the other commentators point out that those who would, whether recklessly or not, make such an interpretation were probably already looking for and had it in mind anyway. In other words, they didn't need the New Yorker cover to convince them of what they already believed. To then say that the New Yorker cover would affirm what they already believe is to itself affirm what they believe, to think from a perspective that assumes what they believe, and yet again to do the Right Wing's dirty-work for them.
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» RE: When "The Left" See This As An Attack On Obama, They Do The Right Wing's Dirty Work For Them
Posted by: desidid
» From Where You Sit
Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: Making Obama Denounce Islam again
Posted by: Purple Girl
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Posted by: SackofWoe0 on Jul 15, 2008 12:56 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Len_Lundgren@yahoo.com on Jul 15, 2008 2:53 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: desidid on Jul 15, 2008 3:15 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: todayspeaker on Jul 15, 2008 7:22 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
His parody shows a stoned-eyed Cindy McCain showering pills onto the lap of a crumpled, drooling, senile John McCain hunched over in a wheelchair muttering,"Bomb,bomb,bomb -- bomb bomb Iran." Cindy is saying,"Here, John, take some of my meds to get you through the Inaugural Parade!' A portrait of Cheney hangs above the mantel. The Constitution is burning up in the fireplace.
Make *this* cartoon famous!
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Posted by: talkville on Jul 15, 2008 10:08 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: nap on Jul 16, 2008 2:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don Hazen clearly balanced pros(general change of direction) and cons (more short term reinforcement) before publishing the article. But I don't think ignoring is the only thing that works. Or ignoring because another frame is used instead. There is also the possibility to feed the cartoon into the competing frame, so that the muslim label inevitably leads to the idea of a certain type of person who buys that sort of label. For the readers of the NewYorker the cover cartoon may work that way, and even for many NY people. But for readers in the US it won't be over the top enough to be seen as a real caricature. (eyes the exit) The cartoon doesn't do much more than referencing the cliches. The over-the-topness is too understated.
What if the cartoon had been more over the top? Add some brie and chardonnay? Maybe. But exaggerating some more may not be a good track.
Tom Tomorrow also shows rightwing cliches but tightly couples them with a certain type of talking head. What you get is "that kind of idea">>fast track>>"that kind of person". This is a way of redirecting the frame into another one. It works pretty well. You could try the same approach into "that kind of thinking". I can imagine followup cartoons just doing that.
Of course, the dems are now cleverly doing something similar. Muslim Obama >> fast track>> whining dems. Brilliant.
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on Jul 16, 2008 8:37 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
God help us - he's the only one who can!
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Posted by: mwd on Jul 16, 2008 12:21 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you think The New Yorker is just another mainstream rag, then maybe you should just go back to reading blogs whose authors can barely string two coherent sentences together.
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» RE: yorking newbama
Posted by: xmvince
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Posted by: fferris on Jul 16, 2008 8:51 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: eurydice on Jul 16, 2008 9:54 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the absurdly polemicized political discourse in this country, we use the epithet "terrrorist" or "terrorist supporter" in jest or as a way to express our opposition to political positions we don't like. However, suggesting that Obama has any link to Bin Laden has threatening overtones in a country where people get sent to Guantanamo, put on "no-fly" watch lists, or wiretapped by the government, etc. because the powers-that-be have decided that they are associated - somehow - with terrorism. The government continues to expand its ability to arbitrarily decide who is suspicious and who is not. (Obama's recent recent vote on FICA should remind us that both parties have been complicit in this change - and that only a bipartisan effort will curb it.) Americans know this on some level: we are starting to wonder how far our desire for "security" will take us, and we're afraid of not being able to stop what we've started.
I think that some of the vehemence in the reader responses to the New Yorker cartoon reveals this fear.
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Posted by: babka on Jul 17, 2008 6:15 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: luzmejor on Jul 17, 2008 6:53 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We already know Obama's attitudes about the American people. What most Americans do not know is how they are constantly being manipulated and openly despised by the present administration.
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Posted by: nyny3a on Jul 18, 2008 6:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sophisticated people got it right away. It will take others some more time, and some will never never get it.
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Posted by: Howard on Jul 18, 2008 7:21 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: xmvince on Jul 18, 2008 7:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» care for some "american flag" marshmallows?
Posted by: nap
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Purple Girl on Jul 18, 2008 8:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a Life Long Liberal I'm disgusted with the over reaction which has played -once again- right into the hands of the Rovian Handbook- Divide & Conquer,chapter 1. This 'flip flop' BS campaign to discredit Sen Obama is another example of the stupidity or complicity of these so called 'Lefties'. As a Prim voter who voted for Kucinich, I KNOW Sen Obama has Not Flip Flopped on anything.He has always been more of a Centrist- which I can live with.
In fact I have become sio disgusted by those claiming to be Liberal and Democrats- I am Hoping Sen Obama names SEN Chuck HAGEL as his VP. It is time we clean out both sides of the Political system, whcih have been infected and controlled by Corp Interests for Decades!
Patriotism knows NO Political Party Boundry.If we want to get rid of CheneyCorp which has run this country for Decades, we need to prove we are truely Color Blind and enlist help from any and all who can help US.
'Liberals' better wake Up you are being Used Again and the Same Organized Crime Syndicate will remain in Power. I am all For the Old School Republican party ideals of Small Gov't, Fiscal Responsiblity, International conservative policies, Free Market (no corp Bailouts). Those claiming to be 'Lefties' have become as unrealistic and overbearring as the Religious Right- both being used for the benefit of the Corp's who want nothing more then to Control the global Economy.They are being distracted by their own small mindedness and over zealousness which obscure the real issues that face US and the World.
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» Backassward
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: Catherine Anne Smith on Jul 18, 2008 3:23 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The New Yorker has great cartoons. Some people actually pay for them. Some people actually read the magazine (I confess it is read in my home). For those whose prejudices are re-enforced by a magazine cover's cartoon, well, maybe they/you need to look a little deeper. But, I am being judgmental...
Satire is, well, SATIRE! Do we have to preface any satirical written piece with a disclaimer? How about censuring cartoons by doing the same? Humor can move people when lecturing can't. Isn't that what the cartoon was about? Was the New Yorker making fun of the Obamas or of the simpletons who condemn them as violently radical Osama supporters? Real
