COMMENTS: 98
Don't Betray Us, General: Admit That Iraq Keeps Getting Worse and That the Surge Failed
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They came, they saw, they deserted.
That, in short form, is the story of the recent Iraqi government "offensive" in Basra (and Baghdad). It took a few days, but the headlines on stories out of Iraq ("Can Iraq's Soldiers Fight?") now tell a grim tale and the information in them is worse yet. Stephen Farrell and James Glanz of the New York Times estimate that at least 1,000 Iraqi soldiers and policemen, or more than 4% of the force sent into Basra, "abandoned their posts" during the fighting, including "dozens of officers" and "at least two senior field commanders."
Other pieces offer even more devastating numbers. For instance, Sudarsan Raghavan and Ernesto Londoo of the Washington Post suggest that 30% of government troops had "abandoned the fight before a cease-fire was reached." Tina Susman of the Los Angeles Times offers 50% as an estimate for police desertions in the midst of battle in Baghdad's vast Sadr City slum, a stronghold of cleric Muqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi Army militia.
In other words, after years of intensive training by American advisors and an investment of $22 billion dollars, US military spokesmen are once again left trying to put the best face on a strategic disaster (from which they were rescued thanks to negotiations between Muqtada al-Sadr and advisors to Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, brokered in Iran by General Qassem Suleimani, a man on the U.S. Treasury Department's terrorist watch list). Think irony. "From what we understand," goes the lame American explanation, "the bulk of these [deserters] were from fairly fresh troops who had only just gotten out of basic training and were probably pushed into the fight too soon."
This week, with surge commander General David Petraeus back from Baghdad's ever redder, ever more dangerous "Green Zone," here are a few realities to keep in mind as he testifies before Congress:
1. The situation in Iraq is getting worse: Don't believe anyone who says otherwise. The surge-ified, "less violent" Iraq the general has presided over so confidently is, in fact, a chaotic, violent tinderbox of city states, proliferating militias armed to the teeth, competing regions armed to the teeth, and competing religious factions armed to the teeth. Worse yet, under Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker, the U.S. has been the great proliferator. It has armed and funded close to 100,000 Sunnis organized into militias reportedly intent on someday destroying "the Iranians" (i.e. the Maliki government). It has also supported Shiite militias (aka the Iraqi army). In Basra, it took sides in a churning Shiite civil war. As Nir Rosen summed matters up in a typically brilliant piece in the Nation, Baghdad today is but a set of "fiefdoms run by warlords and militiamen," a pattern the rest of the country emulates. "The Bush administration," he adds, "and the U.S. military have stopped talking of Iraq as a grand project of nation-building, and the U.S. media have dutifully done the same." Meanwhile, in the little noticed north, an Arab/Kurdish civil war over the oil-rich city of Kirkuk, and possibly Mosul as well, is brewing. This, reports Pepe Escobar of Asia Times, could be explosive. Think nightmare.
2. The Bush administration has no learning curve. Its top officials are unable to absorb the realities of Iraq (or the region) and so, like the generals of World War I, simply send their soldiers surging "over the top" again and again, with minor changes in tactics, to the same dismal end. Time.com's Tony Karon, at his Rootless Cosmopolitan blog, caught this phenomenon strikingly, writing that Maliki's failed offensive "shared the fate of pretty much every similar initiative by the Bush Administration and its allies and proxies since the onset of the 'war on terror.'"
3. The "success" of the surge was always an expensive illusion, essentially a Ponzi scheme, for which payment will someday come due. To buy time for its war at home, the Bush administration put out IOUs in Iraq to be paid in future chaos and violence. It now hopes to slip out of office before these fully come due.
4. A second hidden surge, not likely to be discussed in the hearings this week, is now under way. U.S. air reinforcements, sent into Iraq over the last year, are increasingly being brought to bear. There will be hell to pay for this, too, in the future.
5. A reasonably undertaken but speedy total withdrawal from Iraq is the only way out of this morass (and, at this late date, it won't be pretty); yet such a proposal isn't even on the table in Washington. In fact, as McClatchy's Warren Strobel and Nancy Youssef report, disaster in Basra has "silenced talk at the Pentagon of further U.S. troop withdrawals any time soon."
Since April 2003, each administration misstep in Iraq has only led to worse missteps. Unfortunately, little of this will be apparent in this week's shadowboxing among Washington's "best and brightest," who will again plunge into a "debate" filled with coded words, peppered with absurd fantasies, and rife with American symbolism that only an expert like professor of religion Ira Chernus is likely to decipher. "It's time," he writes, while considering the upcoming Petraeus testimony, "to insist that war should be seen not through the lens of myth and symbol, but as the brutal, self-defeating reality it is."
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 8, 2008 1:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Petraeus to claim Iran behind fight in Basra, Times UK: Iranian forces were involved in the recent battle for Basra, General David Petraeus, the US commander in Iraq, is expected to tell Congress this week. Military and intelligence sources believe Iranians were operating at a tactical command level with the Shi’ite militias fighting Iraqi security forces; some were directing operations on the ground, they think. Petraeus intends to use the evidence of Iranian involvement to argue against any reductions in US forces.
Such propaganda is to be expected - the only real question is whether General Petraeus will be willing to take all the blame himself, or whether he will refer questions to Bush & Cheney or refuse to answer them due to being "outside his area of command."
What we'd really all like to hear about though, is this: Secret US plan for military future in Iraq: Document outlines powers but sets no time limit on troop presence. Guardian UK April 08
"A confidential draft agreement covering the future of US forces in Iraq, passed to the Guardian, shows that provision is being made for an open-ended military presence in the country.
The draft strategic framework agreement between the US and Iraqi governments, dated March 7 and marked "secret" and "sensitive", is intended to replace the existing UN mandate and authorises the US to "conduct military operations in Iraq and to detain individuals when necessary for imperative reasons of security" without time limit."
That looks like a plan for permanent occupation - and Petraeus and Crocker must know all about it. They're being cheered on, however - see, for example, the op-ed in the LA times by CFR member Max Boot:Resist the urge to leave Iraq. Prepare to be nauseated at the shit train of lies and deception, for example:
"Few who have spent any time in Iraq doubt that an American withdrawal would trigger chaos that would make the recent fighting in Basra look like a picnic. That would be not only a terrible stain on our honor (we might be indirectly responsible for genocide) but a significant strategic setback because it could destabilize the entire region."
This is Big Lie propaganda, aimed at convincing by repetition. In fact, the U.S. is the one destabilizing the entire region - as part of the strategy whose goal is still control of all Iraq oil production. Withdrawing troops, dropping the privatization plans, canceling all existing oil contracts, and having new elections overseen by the UN would result in stabilization of the country over time.
Don't expect any off-message behavior from Psyops Petraues, though - that's against the procedures outlined in the Counterinsurgeny Field Manual. This is the guy running Operation Phoenix in Iraq, remember?
Who wants to be that the secret plan to keep troops Iraq won't be addressed by any questions? Or will it? 50-50?
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» Why we must not allow a MCain victory in the Whitehouse 2008
Posted by: jeffreytaos
» RE: Why we must not allow a MCain victory, brick in the wall
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Why we must not allow a MCain victory in the Whitehouse 2008
Posted by: nonlabel
» Watch Headmaster Carl Levin questioning Schoolboy Petraeus: Can I Get A Direct Answer?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» Also, Gareth Porter on why Petraeus is trying to link Basra to Iran:
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Betrayus is a loyal Bushie willing to sell us all out to toe the party line
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: Wishful thinking - Petraeus will be running the domestic propaganda operation.
Posted by: PeaceLover999
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Posted by: Roy Eidelson on Apr 8, 2008 3:25 AM
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» Mae Brussels outlined these very ideas before she died.
Posted by: jeffreytaos
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Posted by: HeKnew on Apr 8, 2008 4:27 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Direct Democracy
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Apr 8, 2008 4:34 AM
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Fine. Having said that, the question is just begging to be asked: If he is as honest as his friends say he is (and I have no reason to doubt that they are telling the truth) how is he going to look the Senate in the eye and tell them - face as straight as a board - that the "escalation" (let's call it buy its real name) is working?
It's also going to be interesting to watch Hillary Clinton and John McCain (who are partially responsible for this mess) posture and bloviate for the television cameras. That's going to be an absolute hoot!
I won't be able to watch this live because I have to go to work. But I'm going to be taping it, you can count on that!
By the way, did you see Hillary talking about Dr. King on April 4th? Does she have any idea how insincere she seems? The gal is a scream!
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
Martin Luther King 1929-1968
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» RE: This is going to be interesting
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» RE: This is going to be interesting
Posted by: richholland
» RE: This is going to be annoying
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: This is going to be annoying
Posted by: babs
» RE: This is going to be interesting
Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: This is going to be interesting
Posted by: babs
» No spoilers here:
Posted by: hurricane hugo
» General P and General P
Posted by: mcartri
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Posted by: solrev on Apr 8, 2008 6:00 AM
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» RE: Shock and awe me
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Shock and awe me
Posted by: babs
» RE: What do we really have to lose?
Posted by: solrev
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Posted by: ajmartin on Apr 8, 2008 6:08 AM
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» RE: JULIUS CAESER WAS A GENERAL,TOO
Posted by: Ellen Remore
» RE: JULIUS CAESER WAS A GENERAL,TOO
Posted by: Vik
» i don't know which thrills me more
Posted by: e rice
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Posted by: the man with a dog on Apr 8, 2008 6:56 AM
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» RE: A national hero???
Posted by: Sparks56
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Posted by: Urstrly on Apr 8, 2008 7:01 AM
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I don't have much hope that Petreus will resist. He has the negative example of every high ranking military realist from Shinseki to Fallon being forced out. You've got to go along or get going.
But what about us? I hope everyone who reads this will call Rep. John Conyers and press him to move up impeachment of Cheney/Bush. Otherwise, we're going to have another huge catastrophe in Iran. And then we have to insist that both Hillary and Barack get the message that the only good withdrawal is a full withdrawal. No army, no reserves, no mercenaries.
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» RE: I vote for #2
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: sawdust on Apr 8, 2008 7:42 AM
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Posted by: carbon-based on Apr 8, 2008 7:47 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Far left keeps digging a hole for itself - that is if anyone is listening!
Gen Petraeus is known as one of the most honest and capable military officers we have. He has proven that!
The left continues to position itself as anti military no matter what the situation!
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» RE: The spin continues!
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: The spin continues! You the one!
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: The spin continues! You the one!
Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: The spin continues! You the one! - Oh, PLEASE.
Posted by: Aimleft
» The honest commanders have all been forced out - Taguba, Fallon, etc.
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: The honest commanders have all been forced out - Taguba, Fallon, etc.
Posted by: carbon-based
» Good LORD!
Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: Good LORD!
Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Good LORD!
Posted by: Aimleft
» Brutus was an honorable man
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» Carbon is a paid troll.
Posted by: SENILEBIKER
» RE: Carbon is a paid troll.
Posted by: carbon-based
» carbon-based is always good for a laugh...
Posted by: tornadorider2002
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Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Apr 8, 2008 8:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just learn to accept it..get used to it..!
We are going down the drain our once bright light is waining it is a classic case of a culture creating the circumstances of it's own demise..
Poor leadership and loss of faith by a corrupt government in the greatness of it's people and failure to strengthen it's and support it's own people and industries and comparative advantage..
Iraq will be America demise as the leading or a great world power..
General Petraeus is just doing his part in America's Geo political destruction..as a world power..!
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» RE: Iraq will be the demise of America as a leading world power..!
Posted by: aurora545
» RE: Iraq will be the demise of America as a leading world power..!
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace
» But do not forget our elites selling us out to Communist China
Posted by: PaulC
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Posted by: willymack on Apr 8, 2008 9:02 AM
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Posted by: HughScott on Apr 8, 2008 9:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hugh E. Scott, Vietnam vet, ex-USAF pilot, lifelong registered Republican, ARDENT Obama supporter and the author of George Dub-ya Bush, THE PHONY FIGHTER PILOT, published in 2004.
Attention NEW Alternet visitors interested in the TRUTH about Bush: To read a sample chapter of PFP and learn about the only smoking-gun proof of White House corruption ever found on the Internet, visit www.PhonyFighterPilot.com.
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» NEW Alternet visitors, learn about his trivial observation...
Posted by: brunowe
» WARNING to bloggers: "brunowe" is a stealth Bush lover up to his old closet GOP tricks,
Posted by: HughScott
» Sorry, calling humbug as humbug doesn't make you a Bushie (nt)
Posted by: brunowe
» Instead of devisive name-calling, brunowe, how about writing something positive!
Posted by: HughScott
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Posted by: HughScott on Apr 8, 2008 9:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
More than likely, seen from a Middle East Muslim perspective, that definition does NOT apply to the United States.
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» RE: A matter of viewpoint
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: A matter of viewpoint
Posted by: babka
» RE: A matter of viewpoint
Posted by: nochicagoboys
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Posted by: CatDad on Apr 8, 2008 9:53 AM
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The Dems will take our antiwar votes to get elected...They'll talk a good talk in Congressional testimonies and on C-Span.....Yet when push comes to shove...they'll cave in every time and give Bush whatever he wants on the war...That's why Bush still has that smug look about him in spite of loosing both houses of Congress in 06...He knows he can easily manipulate Democrats to do his will on foreign policy.
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Posted by: Quannah on Apr 8, 2008 10:12 AM
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Their utter lack of knowledge of the situation there, the difference between Sunni and Shia, the difference between Shia factions, the sheer ignorance of those charged with "finding facts" is astonishing. I see softballs being lobbed to Gen. Petraeus and Amb. Crocker, and they are giving back the lies they've been told to give.
I would urge everyone to print out the Joshua Holland articles on Iraq, the Nir Rosen Nation article, the Gareth Porter article, and send (fax) them to our Senators TODAY! These people seriously need some help with information, and need an immediate introduction to the facts on the ground in Iraq. If they can't be bothered to find out what is going on there, maybe it's our job to inform them.
I can't stomach watching this "testimony" for too long without a break. It's nauseating.
Am I the only one that is so angry I could spit?
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» RE: As I watch the testimony today...
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: As I watch the testimony today...
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: As I watch the testimony today...
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» moving to another country
Posted by: topbrick
» RE: moving to another country
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: moving to another country
Posted by: topbrick
» RE: moving to another country
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: moving to another country
Posted by: topbrick
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Posted by: hadashito on Apr 8, 2008 10:46 AM
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Posted by: HughScott on Apr 8, 2008 11:03 AM
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Welcome to Alice in Wonderland.
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Posted by: aurora545 on Apr 8, 2008 11:15 AM
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» RE: defshepard
Posted by: badkitty
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Posted by: johnbradleycopeland on Apr 8, 2008 11:50 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Ellen Remore on Apr 8, 2008 12:09 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This particular genocide is proving a big disappointment for people like the Carlyle Group, who in 2003 all heard a resounding "Ca-Ching" whenever Iraq was mentioned, while haboring nary a care for "collateral damage."
I recommend Barbara Tuchman's "The Guns of August" or, more recently, Naomi Klein's analysis of this phenomenon, "The Shock Doctrine." The more things change, the more they stay the same.
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» "War is a Racket"-The Book
Posted by: mcartri
» RE: "War is a Racket"-The Book
Posted by: Ellen Remore
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Posted by: Quannah on Apr 8, 2008 12:32 PM
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Isn't that the whole point of his testimony? To answer questions concerning the policies in Iraq??? WTF??? What planet are we on?
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» RE: I also wanna know how the (*&^%$#@
Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: I also wanna know how the (*&^%$#@
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: I also wanna know how the (*&^%$#@
Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: I also wanna know how the (*&^%$#@
Posted by: Quannah
» Petraeus isn't the President, right? He's saying: go ask Bush & Cheney.
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
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Posted by: SlyGuy on Apr 8, 2008 12:42 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: More explanatory value needs
Posted by: Joshua Holland
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Posted by: sofla100 on Apr 8, 2008 1:34 PM
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Posted by: Litt_Wmn on Apr 8, 2008 2:18 PM
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Posted by: tornadorider2002 on Apr 8, 2008 4:01 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They didn't want enough troops over there to actually do more than take over the country and keep the population under some semblance of control. I remember reading something years ago, before this war started, in which government experts were saying that the new wars will be fought in the streets, house to house, and person to person....and that our old-fashioned military is not ready for this sort of no-rules combat. This was expected from the onset of our invasion.
So I cannot believe that the US went over there thinking that they were going to do anything more than what they currently are doing. The trick was to get us to think that there was a threatening boogeyman over there that HAD to be removed for the safety of our "homeland" (uh, oh...mushroom clouds on the horizon!)....then, once enough American GIs have died, it becomes an issue of "honor" and "don't let them die for nothing".
There are only three reasons that I can see that we went over there:
1. To occupy the land next to the largest light crude oil reserve left in the world. Watch how Iran is "annexed" over because they are a "nuclear threat", or maybe the story will be that Iranians are killing GIs in Iraq. (Hey, North Korea is a "threat" too, but since they really DO have atomic weapons, we won't do squat to them).
2. To enrich the pockets of the companies who do well when people fight and die, or when oil fields are taken over: Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater Security, etc. Cheney gets monthly payments from his Halliburton stock, and we allow this no-souled cyborg to continue unabated in his war crimes and conflicts of interest.
3. To position ourselves closer to our masters in Israel. They need more oil too, and ain't nobody gonna get it for them except Uncle Sam. It also helps to have Sam around in case Israel bombs somebody who starts bombing them back. I hate to write this last one, because I love my Jewish friends, but I gotta say it, because it's true.
I watch the national network news to get the latest lies. Only, I know they're lies. We're spoon-fed the garbage we're supposed to believe so that those who truly are the puppetmasters of this horror can continue unmolested.
If you want to know the direction of BushCo's latest imperialistic aims, you'll be told a lot of lies about how whatever place it is, is a huge threat and has done terrible things to Americans. if we don't believe the lies, they might get more creative and throw in atrocities done to women and children.
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Posted by: babka on Apr 8, 2008 5:42 PM
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When listeners complained about the deliberate and widespread use by media of Bushspeak language finesse - the continual deliberate mis-use use of the word "troops" to replace "soldiers" (ie. five troops died rather than five men) - we were told (by NPR) that the Marines had insisted upon it.
Today Petraus (who tends to step up his use of "um" the faster he tapdances, defined in his exaltation of the lure of re-enlistment, the joy of fellowship with other "troopers".
Max Factor just killed an ad campaign for mascara and lip-gloss that was praising these make-up products as fab, waterproof "Storm Troopers" - turned out the young ad kids had never heard of the Nazis or the S.S. - they associated the term simply with Star Wars.
The fifth reich: today Iraq, tomorrow the world.
While discussing race vs. gender, Oprah's guru 'spirituality" vs. Rev. Wright's radical Christianity, have we had a look at the generation gap?
A man you wouldn't buy a used car from has used the Presidency as a long, criminal dry-drunk's genocide.....10 years of "sanctions" previous, and then: the kill. Even in today's congressional session, they linked 9/11 with the "War on Terrorism".......good God,, who is writing these scripts?
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Posted by: eosrk on Apr 8, 2008 6:32 PM
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Posted by: representativepress on Apr 8, 2008 9:59 PM
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Promoting this film helps the antiwar movement. I interviewed Phil Donahue in this Representative Press Video, please help amplify his efforts and my efforts, get this video to others. It is important that good crowds show up at the theaters. WEDNESDAY, APRIL 9 the movie is showing in NY and Donahue and the co-director will be there. Spread the word.
See VIDEO: See Body of War, Hear Body of War * Part 2
I want Phil Donahue's appearance in my video to have been productive so I am really trying to get this video maximum exposure.
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Posted by: amacd on Apr 9, 2008 1:10 PM
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The only presidential candidate who won't drag his feet, delay, and 'slow walk' the Iraq war is Nader.
The only presidential candidate who recognizes, confronts, and will fight the 'corporatist Empire' hiding behind this 'Vichy' two-party sham of a government is Nader.
The only presidential candidate who will stop the corporatist Empire’s looting of the FED and US citizens is Nader.
Stop the 'Shock Doctrine(s)' of the corporatist Empire in Iraq oil-wars and economic oppression and tyranny at home --- vote Nader.
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Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Apr 10, 2008 2:46 PM
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"democracy" (with a lower case "d") cannot be forced upon a nation that didn't ask for it from us, especially the American kind.
In our manner to do so we have abandoned dialogue and used brute force of the American military to reinforce our standing in the world.
Opposing views about America's use of force have been quashed. The Left and others who have expressed reservations about our governemnt's drive for power are labeled as traitors or considered acts of treason. We cannot simply go along with the current tide of lies and explanations on a "surge" (the only thing that's surging is the level of violence and despair)in which Gen. Petraeus and the Bush minions try to do.
Dissenting voices aren't found in our government. No one it seems wants to get off this narrow path we've taken. The road we've chosen is so narrow we can't stop and ask directions for the next exit.
The events of Sept. 11 were now a ruse to launch an ill-fated crusade into the Middle East once again and the subsequent "war" on "terror" has the same ingredients in Manifest Destiny as the near extenction of Native Americans and the theft of their lands.
Democracy bought to Iraq and Afghanistan by Halliburton, Rayhteon, Pizza Hut, Starbucks, Apple Computers, and Chevron.
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Posted by: Kevin Straw on Apr 13, 2008 4:11 AM
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 8, 2008 1:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Petraeus to claim Iran behind fight in Basra, Times UK: Iranian forces were involved in the recent battle for Basra, General David Petraeus, the US commander in Iraq, is expected to tell Congress this week. Military and intelligence sources believe Iranians were operating at a tactical command level with the Shi’ite militias fighting Iraqi security forces; some were directing operations on the ground, they think. Petraeus intends to use the evidence of Iranian involvement to argue against any reductions in US forces.
Such propaganda is to be expected - the only real question is whether General Petraeus will be willing to take all the blame himself, or whether he will refer questions to Bush & Cheney or refuse to answer them due to being "outside his area of command."
What we'd really all like to hear about though, is this: Secret US plan for military future in Iraq: Document outlines powers but sets no time limit on troop presence. Guardian UK April 08
"A confidential draft agreement covering the future of US forces in Iraq, passed to the Guardian, shows that provision is being made for an open-ended military presence in the country.
The draft strategic framework agreement between the US and Iraqi governments, dated March 7 and marked "secret" and "sensitive", is intended to replace the existing UN mandate and authorises the US to "conduct military operations in Iraq and to detain individuals when necessary for imperative reasons of security" without time limit."
That looks like a plan for permanent occupation - and Petraeus and Crocker must know all about it. They're being cheered on, however - see, for example, the op-ed in the LA times by CFR member Max Boot:Resist the urge to leave Iraq. Prepare to be nauseated at the shit train of lies and deception, for example:
"Few who have spent any time in Iraq doubt that an American withdrawal would trigger chaos that would make the recent fighting in Basra look like a picnic. That would be not only a terrible stain on our honor (we might be indirectly responsible for genocide) but a significant strategic setback because it could destabilize the entire region."
This is Big Lie propaganda, aimed at convincing by repetition. In fact, the U.S. is the one destabilizing the entire region - as part of the strategy whose goal is still control of all Iraq oil production. Withdrawing troops, dropping the privatization plans, canceling all existing oil contracts, and having new elections overseen by the UN would result in stabilization of the country over time.
Don't expect any off-message behavior from Psyops Petraues, though - that's against the procedures outlined in the Counterinsurgeny Field Manual. This is the guy running Operation Phoenix in Iraq, remember?
Who wants to be that the secret plan to keep troops Iraq won't be addressed by any questions? Or will it? 50-50?
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» Why we must not allow a MCain victory in the Whitehouse 2008
Posted by: jeffreytaos
» RE: Why we must not allow a MCain victory, brick in the wall
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Why we must not allow a MCain victory in the Whitehouse 2008
Posted by: nonlabel
» Watch Headmaster Carl Levin questioning Schoolboy Petraeus: Can I Get A Direct Answer?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» Also, Gareth Porter on why Petraeus is trying to link Basra to Iran:
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Betrayus is a loyal Bushie willing to sell us all out to toe the party line
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: Wishful thinking - Petraeus will be running the domestic propaganda operation.
Posted by: PeaceLover999
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Posted by: Roy Eidelson on Apr 8, 2008 3:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Mae Brussels outlined these very ideas before she died.
Posted by: jeffreytaos
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Posted by: HeKnew on Apr 8, 2008 4:27 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Direct Democracy
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Apr 8, 2008 4:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fine. Having said that, the question is just begging to be asked: If he is as honest as his friends say he is (and I have no reason to doubt that they are telling the truth) how is he going to look the Senate in the eye and tell them - face as straight as a board - that the "escalation" (let's call it buy its real name) is working?
It's also going to be interesting to watch Hillary Clinton and John McCain (who are partially responsible for this mess) posture and bloviate for the television cameras. That's going to be an absolute hoot!
I won't be able to watch this live because I have to go to work. But I'm going to be taping it, you can count on that!
By the way, did you see Hillary talking about Dr. King on April 4th? Does she have any idea how insincere she seems? The gal is a scream!
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
Martin Luther King 1929-1968
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» RE: This is going to be interesting
Posted by: colinmeister
» RE: This is going to be interesting
Posted by: richholland
» RE: This is going to be annoying
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: This is going to be annoying
Posted by: babs
» RE: This is going to be interesting
Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: This is going to be interesting
Posted by: babs
» No spoilers here:
Posted by: hurricane hugo
» General P and General P
Posted by: mcartri
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Posted by: solrev on Apr 8, 2008 6:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Shock and awe me
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Shock and awe me
Posted by: babs
» RE: What do we really have to lose?
Posted by: solrev
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Posted by: ajmartin on Apr 8, 2008 6:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: JULIUS CAESER WAS A GENERAL,TOO
Posted by: Ellen Remore
» RE: JULIUS CAESER WAS A GENERAL,TOO
Posted by: Vik
» i don't know which thrills me more
Posted by: e rice
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Posted by: the man with a dog on Apr 8, 2008 6:56 AM
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» RE: A national hero???
Posted by: Sparks56
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Posted by: Urstrly on Apr 8, 2008 7:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't have much hope that Petreus will resist. He has the negative example of every high ranking military realist from Shinseki to Fallon being forced out. You've got to go along or get going.
But what about us? I hope everyone who reads this will call Rep. John Conyers and press him to move up impeachment of Cheney/Bush. Otherwise, we're going to have another huge catastrophe in Iran. And then we have to insist that both Hillary and Barack get the message that the only good withdrawal is a full withdrawal. No army, no reserves, no mercenaries.
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» RE: I vote for #2
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: sawdust on Apr 8, 2008 7:42 AM
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Posted by: carbon-based on Apr 8, 2008 7:47 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Far left keeps digging a hole for itself - that is if anyone is listening!
Gen Petraeus is known as one of the most honest and capable military officers we have. He has proven that!
The left continues to position itself as anti military no matter what the situation!
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» RE: The spin continues!
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: The spin continues! You the one!
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: The spin continues! You the one!
Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: The spin continues! You the one! - Oh, PLEASE.
Posted by: Aimleft
» The honest commanders have all been forced out - Taguba, Fallon, etc.
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: The honest commanders have all been forced out - Taguba, Fallon, etc.
Posted by: carbon-based
» Good LORD!
Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: Good LORD!
Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Good LORD!
Posted by: Aimleft
» Brutus was an honorable man
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» Carbon is a paid troll.
Posted by: SENILEBIKER
» RE: Carbon is a paid troll.
Posted by: carbon-based
» carbon-based is always good for a laugh...
Posted by: tornadorider2002
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Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Apr 8, 2008 8:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just learn to accept it..get used to it..!
We are going down the drain our once bright light is waining it is a classic case of a culture creating the circumstances of it's own demise..
Poor leadership and loss of faith by a corrupt government in the greatness of it's people and failure to strengthen it's and support it's own people and industries and comparative advantage..
Iraq will be America demise as the leading or a great world power..
General Petraeus is just doing his part in America's Geo political destruction..as a world power..!
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» RE: Iraq will be the demise of America as a leading world power..!
Posted by: aurora545
» RE: Iraq will be the demise of America as a leading world power..!
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace
» But do not forget our elites selling us out to Communist China
Posted by: PaulC
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Posted by: willymack on Apr 8, 2008 9:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: HughScott on Apr 8, 2008 9:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hugh E. Scott, Vietnam vet, ex-USAF pilot, lifelong registered Republican, ARDENT Obama supporter and the author of George Dub-ya Bush, THE PHONY FIGHTER PILOT, published in 2004.
Attention NEW Alternet visitors interested in the TRUTH about Bush: To read a sample chapter of PFP and learn about the only smoking-gun proof of White House corruption ever found on the Internet, visit www.PhonyFighterPilot.com.
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» NEW Alternet visitors, learn about his trivial observation...
Posted by: brunowe
» WARNING to bloggers: "brunowe" is a stealth Bush lover up to his old closet GOP tricks,
Posted by: HughScott
» Sorry, calling humbug as humbug doesn't make you a Bushie (nt)
Posted by: brunowe
» Instead of devisive name-calling, brunowe, how about writing something positive!
Posted by: HughScott
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HughScott on Apr 8, 2008 9:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
More than likely, seen from a Middle East Muslim perspective, that definition does NOT apply to the United States.
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» RE: A matter of viewpoint
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: A matter of viewpoint
Posted by: babka
» RE: A matter of viewpoint
Posted by: nochicagoboys
Comments are closed-
Posted by: CatDad on Apr 8, 2008 9:53 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Dems will take our antiwar votes to get elected...They'll talk a good talk in Congressional testimonies and on C-Span.....Yet when push comes to shove...they'll cave in every time and give Bush whatever he wants on the war...That's why Bush still has that smug look about him in spite of loosing both houses of Congress in 06...He knows he can easily manipulate Democrats to do his will on foreign policy.
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Posted by: Quannah on Apr 8, 2008 10:12 AM
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Their utter lack of knowledge of the situation there, the difference between Sunni and Shia, the difference between Shia factions, the sheer ignorance of those charged with "finding facts" is astonishing. I see softballs being lobbed to Gen. Petraeus and Amb. Crocker, and they are giving back the lies they've been told to give.
I would urge everyone to print out the Joshua Holland articles on Iraq, the Nir Rosen Nation article, the Gareth Porter article, and send (fax) them to our Senators TODAY! These people seriously need some help with information, and need an immediate introduction to the facts on the ground in Iraq. If they can't be bothered to find out what is going on there, maybe it's our job to inform them.
I can't stomach watching this "testimony" for too long without a break. It's nauseating.
Am I the only one that is so angry I could spit?
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» RE: As I watch the testimony today...
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: As I watch the testimony today...
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: As I watch the testimony today...
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» moving to another country
Posted by: topbrick
» RE: moving to another country
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: moving to another country
Posted by: topbrick
» RE: moving to another country
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: moving to another country
Posted by: topbrick
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Posted by: hadashito on Apr 8, 2008 10:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: HughScott on Apr 8, 2008 11:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Welcome to Alice in Wonderland.
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Posted by: aurora545 on Apr 8, 2008 11:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: defshepard
Posted by: badkitty
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Posted by: johnbradleycopeland on Apr 8, 2008 11:50 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Ellen Remore on Apr 8, 2008 12:09 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This particular genocide is proving a big disappointment for people like the Carlyle Group, who in 2003 all heard a resounding "Ca-Ching" whenever Iraq was mentioned, while haboring nary a care for "collateral damage."
I recommend Barbara Tuchman's "The Guns of August" or, more recently, Naomi Klein's analysis of this phenomenon, "The Shock Doctrine." The more things change, the more they stay the same.
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» "War is a Racket"-The Book
Posted by: mcartri
» RE: "War is a Racket"-The Book
Posted by: Ellen Remore
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Posted by: Quannah on Apr 8, 2008 12:32 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Isn't that the whole point of his testimony? To answer questions concerning the policies in Iraq??? WTF??? What planet are we on?
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» RE: I also wanna know how the (*&^%$#@
Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: I also wanna know how the (*&^%$#@
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: I also wanna know how the (*&^%$#@
Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: I also wanna know how the (*&^%$#@
Posted by: Quannah
» Petraeus isn't the President, right? He's saying: go ask Bush & Cheney.
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
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Posted by: SlyGuy on Apr 8, 2008 12:42 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: More explanatory value needs
Posted by: Joshua Holland
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Posted by: sofla100 on Apr 8, 2008 1:34 PM
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Posted by: Litt_Wmn on Apr 8, 2008 2:18 PM
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Posted by: tornadorider2002 on Apr 8, 2008 4:01 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They didn't want enough troops over there to actually do more than take over the country and keep the population under some semblance of control. I remember reading something years ago, before this war started, in which government experts were saying that the new wars will be fought in the streets, house to house, and person to person....and that our old-fashioned military is not ready for this sort of no-rules combat. This was expected from the onset of our invasion.
So I cannot believe that the US went over there thinking that they were going to do anything more than what they currently are doing. The trick was to get us to think that there was a threatening boogeyman over there that HAD to be removed for the safety of our "homeland" (uh, oh...mushroom clouds on the horizon!)....then, once enough American GIs have died, it becomes an issue of "honor" and "don't let them die for nothing".
There are only three reasons that I can see that we went over there:
1. To occupy the land next to the largest light crude oil reserve left in the world. Watch how Iran is "annexed" over because they are a "nuclear threat", or maybe the story will be that Iranians are killing GIs in Iraq. (Hey, North Korea is a "threat" too, but since they really DO have atomic weapons, we won't do squat to them).
2. To enrich the pockets of the companies who do well when people fight and die, or when oil fields are taken over: Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater Security, etc. Cheney gets monthly payments from his Halliburton stock, and we allow this no-souled cyborg to continue unabated in his war crimes and conflicts of interest.
3. To position ourselves closer to our masters in Israel. They need more oil too, and ain't nobody gonna get it for them except Uncle Sam. It also helps to have Sam around in case Israel bombs somebody who starts bombing them back. I hate to write this last one, because I love my Jewish friends, but I gotta say it, because it's true.
I watch the national network news to get the latest lies. Only, I know they're lies. We're spoon-fed the garbage we're supposed to believe so that those who truly are the puppetmasters of this horror can continue unmolested.
If you want to know the direction of BushCo's latest imperialistic aims, you'll be told a lot of lies about how whatever place it is, is a huge threat and has done terrible things to Americans. if we don't believe the lies, they might get more creative and throw in atrocities done to women and children.
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Posted by: babka on Apr 8, 2008 5:42 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When listeners complained about the deliberate and widespread use by media of Bushspeak language finesse - the continual deliberate mis-use use of the word "troops" to replace "soldiers" (ie. five troops died rather than five men) - we were told (by NPR) that the Marines had insisted upon it.
Today Petraus (who tends to step up his use of "um" the faster he tapdances, defined in his exaltation of the lure of re-enlistment, the joy of fellowship with other "troopers".
Max Factor just killed an ad campaign for mascara and lip-gloss that was praising these make-up products as fab, waterproof "Storm Troopers" - turned out the young ad kids had never heard of the Nazis or the S.S. - they associated the term simply with Star Wars.
The fifth reich: today Iraq, tomorrow the world.
While discussing race vs. gender, Oprah's guru 'spirituality" vs. Rev. Wright's radical Christianity, have we had a look at the generation gap?
A man you wouldn't buy a used car from has used the Presidency as a long, criminal dry-drunk's genocide.....10 years of "sanctions" previous, and then: the kill. Even in today's congressional session, they linked 9/11 with the "War on Terrorism".......good God,, who is writing these scripts?
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Posted by: eosrk on Apr 8, 2008 6:32 PM
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Posted by: representativepress on Apr 8, 2008 9:59 PM
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Promoting this film helps the antiwar movement. I interviewed Phil Donahue in this Representative Press Video, please help amplify his efforts and my efforts, get this video to others. It is important that good crowds show up at the theaters. WEDNESDAY, APRIL 9 the movie is showing in NY and Donahue and the co-director will be there. Spread the word.
See VIDEO: See Body of War, Hear Body of War * Part 2
I want Phil Donahue's appearance in my video to have been productive so I am really trying to get this video maximum exposure.
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Posted by: amacd on Apr 9, 2008 1:10 PM
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The only presidential candidate who won't drag his feet, delay, and 'slow walk' the Iraq war is Nader.
The only presidential candidate who recognizes, confronts, and will fight the 'corporatist Empire' hiding behind this 'Vichy' two-party sham of a government is Nader.
The only presidential candidate who will stop the corporatist Empire’s looting of the FED and US citizens is Nader.
Stop the 'Shock Doctrine(s)' of the corporatist Empire in Iraq oil-wars and economic oppression and tyranny at home --- vote Nader.
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Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Apr 10, 2008 2:46 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"democracy" (with a lower case "d") cannot be forced upon a nation that didn't ask for it from us, especially the American kind.
In our manner to do so we have abandoned dialogue and used brute force of the American military to reinforce our standing in the world.
Opposing views about America's use of force have been quashed. The Left and others who have expressed reservations about our governemnt's drive for power are labeled as traitors or considered acts of treason. We cannot simply go along with the current tide of lies and explanations on a "surge" (the only thing that's surging is the level of violence and despair)in which Gen. Petraeus and the Bush minions try to do.
Dissenting voices aren't found in our government. No one it seems wants to get off this narrow path we've taken. The road we've chosen is so narrow we can't stop and ask directions for the next exit.
The events of Sept. 11 were now a ruse to launch an ill-fated crusade into the Middle East once again and the subsequent "war" on "terror" has the same ingredients in Manifest Destiny as the near extenction of Native Americans and the theft of their lands.
Democracy bought to Iraq and Afghanistan by Halliburton, Rayhteon, Pizza Hut, Starbucks, Apple Computers, and Chevron.
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Posted by: Kevin Straw on Apr 13, 2008 4:11 AM
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Half-Naked Hot Chicks and Beer: The Sexist Guyland of the Super Bowl Beer Commercial
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