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AlterNet / By John Dolan
comments_imageCOMMENTS: 505

Fighting Words: How to Humiliate -- and Convert -- a Right-Winger

Drop the condescending "populist" talk and get mean.
March 25, 2008  |  
 
 
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I'd like to suggest a very simple strategy for American liberals: Get mean. Stop policing the language and start using it to hurt our enemies. American liberals are so busy purging their speech of any words that might offend anyone that they have no notion of using language to cause some salutary pain.

Why, for example, not popularize slogans that mock the Bush loyalists as "suckers"? Something like, "There are two kinds of Republicans: millionaires and suckers." Put that on a few bumper stickers and I guarantee a lot of "South Park Republicans" will quit the GOP. They just smirk when you tsk-tsk at them for being disrespectful. They want to be disrespectful; every normal young male wants to be.

And this, of course, brings up a big issue: At some point liberal writers are going to have to decide if it's OK to be young and male at all. For better or for worse, millions of American men hold on to playground ethics long after they leave elementary school. For most of them, the 2004 election came down to a classic playground scene: Would John Kerry defend himself when attacked by bullies? Liberals, still stunned by the way a legitimate combat vet like Kerry was beaten by a combat-dodging spoiled brat like Bush, never understood that for millions of voters, the question wasn't how well Kerry fought in Vietnam but whether he would fight in 2004.

Would he defend himself when called out by the gang of disgusting bullies Bush had gathered around himself? It would have been so simple, so glorious, if he'd just turned on his accusers and reacted like a human being: "You're questioning my record on behalf of a skunk like Bush who spent the war with the Alabama National Guard, and then went AWOL from the Guard?"

Millions of American voters were waiting, hoping Kerry would react like any sane person would have. He never did. I don't know why not; I assume he was in the hands of some Clinton gurus who babbled about "rising above the fray." Well, that sure worked well.

And please, don't tell me you're above such gross playground considerations. The American people are the beneficiaries of centuries of serious Leftist violence, starting with the American Revolution and climaxing in the Civil War. Without brave Leftist warriors slaughtering British and Confederate soldiers in large numbers, the whole tradition of American liberalism would not exist.

And we are the sufferers from the most disastrous wimp-out in recent American history: Carter's debacle in response to the taking of American hostages in Iran in 1979. That refusal to use punitive force to free his country's diplomats may have made pacifists feel nice, but it was an expensive treat; it got Reagan elected, showed a host of evil right-wing PR staffers that all they had to do was talk tough to win, and convinced a huge number of disgusted American male voters that the liberals would not fight back.

Kerry could have turned that around in 2004; it was almost as if a Hollywood scriptwriter had arranged the perfect confrontation, in which the liberal champion could flatten his orc-like tormentors and show the voters that one can be a progressive without being a wimp. Instead, he confirmed a prevalent myth that liberals are "soft" on terrorism and the military -- in other words, like illustrator Gary Larson's Wimpodites: "Though skilled with their pillow arsenal, the Wimpodites were frequent targets of Viking attacks."

And so far, the liberal response, the liberal attempt to reach out to the guys in the big trucks is embarrassing "populist" essays using bad imitations of American slang. Let's be blunt here: "populism" is condescension. If you want male voters' respect, stop patronizing them. (It just creeps them out.) Far better to insult them -- to their face, in their face, telling them bluntly that the talk radio nonsense they parrot is pure crap. They know that themselves. Half of what they say is designed simply to reassure themselves and their friends that they're not the same sort of wimps their social studies teachers tried to make them into. So they're not afraid of being called cruel or insensitive; they're afraid of being suckers.

The minute we start calling them on their suckerdom, they'll change sides -- and we'll finally have some decent troops on our side. But as long as liberals speak in the language of Beavis and Butthead's Mister van Driessen, they'll despise you, even when they know you're right (which they do). We may not be the most systematically intellectual tribe on earth, but Americans are very verbally sensitive. They will not heed Mister van Driessen, even if he's telling them to evacuate a burning classroom. They'd sooner die. You may find this irrational, but when I think back to the progressive mindset I became familiar with UC Berkeley, I understand this reaction very well. I don't condone it, but damn! I sure do understand it.

Liberals aren't generally perceived as fighting the robber barons -- they appear as a secular clergy far more obsessed with cleaning up our gloriously obscene language than fighting back.

Note that I've used the word "fighting." Americans are a violent people -- and I mean that as a compliment. We are a magnificently violent people who value courage above all else. In this, the ordinary American is in total agreement with George Patton, John Paul Jones and John Brown. They were all violent leaders, who sent a lot of Redcoats, Nazis and secessionist slaveholders to an early grave. I consider that glorious; so do most Americans.

John Paul Jones said, "I intend to go in harm's way" and coined a boast that generations of Americans, and even Bugs Bunny himself, repeated with pride: "I have not yet begun to fight." John Brown killed and died to provoke a final conflict over slavery. When American liberals can appreciate, encourage and manipulate the violence of such people, maybe you can talk to your fellow Americans again.

A good first step would be accepting the fact that language is a weapon -- and then start using it effectively. Most liberals affect scorn for mere words, in the way that I affected scorn for mathematics after flunking algebra twice in high schools. And most of the hardcore academic progressives I've known have tin ears. Their sheer awfulness is adaptive within the academic ghetto, in the way that a lack of any olfactory ability is adaptive for carrion eaters; but it's disastrous when they try to talk to people outside their guild.

It's not really that hard, after all. Just stop trying to be "populists," because frankly when liberals start talking about "populism," they sound like North Korean infiltrators trying to pose as surfer dudes. Try smacking your South Park countrymen in their deluded heads with some bumper stickers of our own, just as down and dirty as theirs. Wanna get them out of their gas-guzzling Dodge extended-cab semis? Stop whining at them and try putting these four little words on the back bumper of your hybrid: "Big truck, small dick." Yeah, you might get yelled at at a stoplight; you might even get hit. You might even consider hitting back.

Liberals have always been good fighters, once they get going.
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John Dolan is an editor of the Moscow-based English-language alternative paper, "The eXile." He is the author of, most recently, "Pleasant Hell" (Capricorn, 2005).
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F-kin A
[Report this comment]
Posted by: YogiBear on Mar 25, 2008 12:32 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just make sure you are right, otherwise you come off sounding like a dumbass.

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» RE: F-kin A Posted by: mmckinl
» NO LEADERS Posted by: rancespergl
» RE: F-kin A Posted by: rickiey
» RE: F-kin A Posted by: mmckinl
» RE: Hand over my heart and tears Posted by: boydranchitos
» WE are the leaders Posted by: deepseas
» RE: Leaders Posted by: sasquuatch55
» RE: F-kin A Posted by: dockboy
» did somebody say "get mean"????? Posted by: CulturalMutilation
» nonsense Posted by: realtruther
» RE: nonsense Posted by: Patriot46

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A class element
[Report this comment]
Posted by: andabottleof_rum on Mar 25, 2008 12:35 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You have a point. There is a visceral contempt for the whining discursive style of liberals and their "moral high ground" strategies. Many people react with contempt because such an attitude reveals the person has never been in the military or worked a back-breaking job or fought with chronic economic instability.

Most liberals are middle class. They live and work among other middle class people in nice clean professions that often don't even seem like real work.

Working-class person: What do you do? Consulting? That's getting paid just to give your opinion?

I'll give you a piece of my mind about your job if you pay me for it.

I don't know if liberals have it in them to be down and dirty. That would transgress class lines and make them look like something they dearly don't want to be: low brow laborers. Also, after living cushy lives, I doubt they'd have it in them to be really cruel and even, if need be, violent. Notice war is a working-class thing and middle-class people do what they can to avoid the military.

Who was it killing those Brits and Confederates and Nazis in those glorious liberal victories? It was mostly the lower class, of course!

Who was it rioting in the 60s for racial justice? Poor blacks in ghettos!

Who were some of the most aggressive anti-war protesters? War veterans!

What did middle class liberals do in the 60s? They organized non-violent protests and some of the younger ones occasionally became violent when they realized there was a possibility they would be drafted.

Aggression and violence are lower-class male things. It would probably be useful in winning their support if liberals knew how to be aggressive and violent, but I am unsure if they have it in them.

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» Where's our Limbaugh? Posted by: kegbot1
» RE: Where's our Limbaugh? Posted by: toddcory
» RE: Where's our Limbaugh? Posted by: kegbot1
» His name is Bill Maher . . . Posted by: Scientz
» Joe Lyles . . . ? Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Mike Malloy Posted by: Techubus
» RE: Where's our Limbaugh? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Where's our Limbaugh? Posted by: kegbot1
» RE: Where's our Limbaugh? Posted by: Longdream
» Been up-country lately? Posted by: Itsthewater
» I'm There With You Posted by: pdxstudent
» Yes, we have it in us Posted by: deepseas
» RE: A class element Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
» RE: A class element Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
» RE: A class element Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» RE: A class element Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: A class element Posted by: Lauren
» Aggression and Violence ... Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Aggression and Violence ... Posted by: Intellect
» RE: A miliary element... Posted by: harryf200
» RE: A class element!?!?!??? Posted by: cbishopp
» RE: A class element!?!?!??? Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» RE: A class element Posted by: Hovey
» You mean like Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld... Posted by: trappedintwilightzone
» RE: You mean like Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld... Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» RE: A class element Posted by: Longdream
» Many Years Ago Posted by: jackyD
» RE: A class element Posted by: Suz
» RE: A class element Posted by: Longdream
» RE: A class element Posted by: ringo
» RE: A class element Posted by: trpeer
» RE: A class element Posted by: yetischmeti

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You Should Talk to Your Fellow Writers, Here and Elsewhere ...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: mmckinl on Mar 25, 2008 12:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Or maybe that is what you are doing in a round about fashion.

I see a gaping hole in the anger that should be expressed by Liberal writers and politicians everywhere. Just look at what this shit hole Bush and a Republican Congress has done to this country over these last 7 years.

Look at our leaders in Congress, Reid and Pelosi. Pelosi takes Impeachment off the table before she even sees the evidence or hears the charges. Reid gets all puffed up one day then sucks up the next ... With leaders like this who's gonna pretend we're gonna stand up to anything ...

It just goes on and on with the whining and whimpering and when someone like Pete Stark stands up and gets mad he's immediately beaten up by his own cowardly party.

Almost all liberal radio hosts and TV personalities have no attitude whatsoever.

So you can talk about us liberals out here in the real world all you want, but from the weak at the knees writing we get and the cowardly leadership that whimpers from Washington, what the hell do you expect?

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» Good grief! Posted by: trappedintwilightzone
» RE: Good grief! Posted by: mmckinl

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Great strategy . . . if you are going after the 2-year-old vote
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Rune on Mar 25, 2008 12:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do we really need more crap obscuring the very serious and daunting wrongs that the Republicans championed and the Democrats have continued? Partisan bickering is no more effective than the compromise (Obama) or sell-out (Clinton) being offered by the "opposition party's" leading candidates.

It would be much more useful and effective, I believe, for the Democrats to pull an entirely different page out of the GOP playbook. Tell the story of giving people back something they regard as wrongfully taken from them and let them dream of how they will make use of that "gift." In the case of the Republicans, the game is played by telling people they can have their tax money back to spend as they please (ignoring the services and devaluation of the currency that results from deficit spending). The GOP has set the table for a whopping round of giving people back their privacy, the security of their identities and private information, the right to be told the truth by a whole range of scientists working the public interest, the right to know what their government is doing on their behalf, and the right to have the government respect their wishes about, say, war or consumer protection even if it is not a presidential election year.

Offering to give those things back, and restoring a bit of America's dignity in the process, would make for a very attractive and compelling choice that people from all walks of life could dream about and long for. It could . . . if that was what the Democrats intended to do if Obama or Clinton got elected. But so far, neither has indicated they are committed to such clearcut reversals of Bush's policies and harmful laws he signed into being.

Instead, the Democrats make a big noise about what a bad boy Dubya has been, but they won't call for his impeachment (which the majority of citizens support) nor will they come right out and say they will undo the long list of unconstitutional policies he and privileges he has brought into play. They won't even promise to bring defense spending down to something comparable to the already high level it was at when Bush declared himself to be the untouchable commander in chief. (Soon, the Democrats will be handing Bush another $100+ billion blank check for more lawless warfare, BTW.)

That being the case, why, exactly, are we so determined to make fools of ourselves by trying to humiliate Republicans instead of demonstrating some wisdom and concrete ideas for ending one of the worst periods in U.S. history? Shouldn't Democrats be rather sheepish themselves for sticking by what has become the Republican-lite party?

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» One of the best damn posts... Posted by: trappedintwilightzone
» RE: I'm tired. Posted by: Longdream
» RE: American people (think again) Posted by: Itsthewater
» RE: American people (think again) Posted by: democracynowiniraq
» RE: American people (think again) Posted by: democracynowiniraq

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Silence Is Not An Option!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: skizum on Mar 25, 2008 2:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In my personal experience I have found myself afraid to incite conflict for fear of retribution. At the same time, when I have had to confront bullies and people who are mean spirited, I have acted aggressively, engaged in conflict and earned respect. I have experienced on more than one occasion that when I engage in heated conflict I have earned respect but only in cases where I have spoken or acted from the moral higher ground. Alternatively, I have also found that by engaging people in rational debate with strong principal can be quite effective too.

In both cases, I have found it productive to always direct my points to attack my opponents ego. The whole dynamic seems to revolve around defending one's sense of self pride. I have earned respect by challenging another person's ego until the point where I have shown that I will not be steamrolled. It's all about finding a way around, over, under or through someone else's walls of rationalized self defense to earn respect. Once this point of tension has been reached, often a mutual respect of one's adversary can be achieved. People often become good friends in this way and sometimes bitter enemies.

In any case, we progressives need to continue to communicate our messages and challenge the very logic and premises that our aggressive opponents spew forth on a regular basis. In this regard, my contribution to the effort is focussed on providing progressives with a means to broadly disseminate their voices whether boldly and publicly or quietly and discreetly. Repetitive messaging works, it's the basis of advertising, learning and propaganda; let's use it effectively and with great frequency.

One thing is for sure; silence is not a viable option if you care about bringing America back from the brink of social implosion.

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» Well Said Posted by: kegbot1
» RE: Well Said Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Well Said! Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Well Said! Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Well Said! Posted by: Intellect
» RE: Silence Is Not An Option! Posted by: The Old Hippie

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What would Washington say?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Adler Berriman Seal on Mar 25, 2008 2:22 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have already intimated to you the danger of parties in the State, with particular reference to the founding of them on geographical discriminations. Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party generally.

This spirit, unfortunately, is inseparable from our nature, having its root in the strongest passions of the human mind. It exists under different shapes in all governments, more or less stifled, controlled, or repressed; but in those of the popular form it is seen in its greatest rankness and is truly their worst enemy....

It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part against another; foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which finds a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passion. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.

There is an opinion that parties in free countries are useful checks upon the administration of the government, and serve to keep alive the spirit of liberty. This within certain limits is probably true; and in governments of a monarchical cast patriotism may look with indulgence, if not with favor, upon the spirit of party. But in those of the popular character, in governments purely elective, it is a spirit not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose; and there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be by force of public opinion to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume.

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» Very interesting quote Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» It's Political Pro-wrestling Posted by: Adler Berriman Seal
» RE: Very interesting quote Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Very interesting quote Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» RE: Very interesting quote Posted by: Longdream

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at last
[Report this comment]
Posted by: MobileSucks on Mar 25, 2008 2:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OK, I just read the first few lines of this. I'll check the rest out latter. But if you've been around working class people, whites and blacks, this 'get mean' idea rings so true you may find it hard to believe. You got to speak to people in their language, not yours. People aren't nice liberals even if they agree with liberal positions more often than not and don't know it cause they're propagandized and are delusional.

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» RE: at last Posted by: bukharajones
» Right the fuck on... Posted by: MobileSucks
» Wait a minute! Posted by: trappedintwilightzone

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While you're at it, buy a damn GUN.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: willie.horton on Mar 25, 2008 3:40 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My political compass is -9.00, -7.95 -- just about as far to the left as you can go, and extremely libertarian -- and we're heavily armed. There is no contradiction here: the leftist revolutionaries who wrote our Constitution would have been writing it (in their own feces) on the wall of their prison cell if not for their guns.

"Gun control" is the first issue they use to make us look like wimps. And, we're wrong about it. They use it to make the "sucker Republicans" vote their way by calling our politicians "gun grabbers."

Learn to shoot.
Buy the most carnivorous guns on Earth: a 10mm Glock and a Saiga-12.
If you live in a "shall-issue" atate, get a concealed carry permit.
Join the NRA, and co-opt it from within.
Write your Democratic representatives, and tell them to STFU about worthless "gun control" laws (join the chorus: Howard Dean & the DNC are already screaming that at them).

It might save your life... and you might even enjoy it.

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» I'm not disagreeing, but Posted by: dover23
» What's your political compass? Posted by: deepseas

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big mouth leftie
[Report this comment]
Posted by: LauraGRossHC@Hotmail.com on Mar 25, 2008 3:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh, that it would be so easy! Aside from suckers, there are those who truly believe in creationism, in the primacy of MAN, are sexist, recist, homophobic, etc. They are voting against any changes, anything they are afraid of since the republicans are so skilled at waging fear. We can talk some middle roaders out of their fear, get logical with some willing to listen who have just not paid much attention and get their information from mainstream media - or at least hook in their kids. But there are millions of people who feel a great need for control, whether they are leaders or followers. And they have plenty of names for people who fight against those who use the Bible as their excuse.
We need to continue to speak out, to use the label "liberal" proudly, and argue reality with anyone who will listen, and I fully agree Liberals need to grow some huevos and argue back, and incite the discussion on our own terms. But it isn't going to be easy on any level, and some won't be swayed by name-calling.

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» RE: big mouth leftie Posted by: Xynyx

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We are different
[Report this comment]
Posted by: robchapman on Mar 25, 2008 4:04 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is a profound psychological difference between the left and right.

The left seeks cooperation and accomodation of divergent views.

The right seeks confrontation and conversion to certainty.

It is not worth engaging them if we become them.

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» RE: We are different Posted by: mejsmith
» RE: We are different Posted by: Tampa
» You are wrong on all counts. Posted by: Centavo
» Listen brunowe... Posted by: Centavo
» Listen centavo Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Listen centavo Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Yes, Brunowe Posted by: Longdream
» A waste of time Posted by: deepseas
» nada más por el testigo... Posted by: realtruther

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Forget that!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: unitedstatesofstupidity on Mar 25, 2008 4:05 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
HEY HEY! HO HO! REPUBLICANS HAVE GOT TO GO! HEY HEY! HO HO!

Stick to what works guys!!!

Oh, what's that? That never works? Oh...

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» RE: Uh-uh--remember! Posted by: Longdream

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My bumpersticker
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Tompatriot on Mar 25, 2008 4:23 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What would the founders do?

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» RE: My bumpersticker Posted by: mwinmag300
» RE: My bumpersticker Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: My bumpersticker Posted by: Lauren
» RE: My bumpersticker Posted by: buzzsaw
» RE: My bumpersticker Posted by: dockboy
» RE: My bumpersticker Posted by: willymack
» Yea, that includes me... Posted by: deepseas
» RE: Yeah, thanks. Posted by: Longdream
» RE: My bumpersticker Posted by: ohb0b
» RE: My bumpersticker Posted by: Longdream

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what would they be humiliated about?
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Posted by: Dboy on Mar 25, 2008 4:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The right-wingers are largely an anti-intellectual crowd. "W" attended both Harvard and Yale yet managed to remain completely uneducated (a respectable accomplishment among his supporters). They've been in office 8 years, started a few wars, appointed some nut-jobs to the supreme court, avoided impeachment, own their own cable TV "news" network, and have the support of most of the fly-over states. They got what they wanted: a president they could have a beer with. They didn't ask for a competent president, or a good president, or a moral president. They wanted a regular guy president and that's what they got. So what exactly do they have to feel humiliated about? Dumb won.

dboy

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» Exactly Posted by: messedup

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Mister van Driessen
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Mar 25, 2008 4:40 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The liberal side has definitely been dominated by snotty, latte-sipping, PC goody-goodies for a while now. Some will say that's just a myth perpetuated by talk radio, but I think it's more than that.

At the same time, I don't want to act like Republicans just to get a bunch of fat, beer-swilling truck dudes to like us. They might just be extra baggage--kind of like the PC crowd. If they bring enough beer for the rest of us, maybe we'll think about it.

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» i hate coffee Posted by: happyhermit
» RE: Mister van Driessen Posted by: ohb0b

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Absolutely Spot On Right, But
[Report this comment]
Posted by: kegbot1 on Mar 25, 2008 5:05 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Finally, someone is telling it like it is. Two small quibbles - (1) I've found that even using this tactic some cons absolutely DO believe fervently in what they're hearing from Limbaugh, et. al. It's not mere reassurance - its a reinforcement of deep-seated racism, nationalism and sexism, et. al. and merely calling them a 'sucker' causes them to cling even more to these beliefs because they don't want to admit they're wrong. You have to get even uglier than this and I never hesitate to do so. Check it out (I'm Bad American in the comments):

http://tinyurl.com/2frgns

Joe is not going to abandon a carefully defended belief system not just because he probably believes it but because to ADMIT HE'S WRONG is anathema to most schoolyard cons. He's there to get his shots in on a politically neutral blog and so am I. We're not going to convert each other but the casual reader. I think Dolan needs to consider this.

Now (2) some liberals believe that if we have to speak and connect to the pick-up truck Jethros than perhaps the country isn't worth saving - let it crash and burn and maybe the collective pain will be a two by four across the ignorant snouts. These libs, like their well heeled con counterparts, believe they can insulate themselves from economic and social meltdown. Whether its futile or not, I find it too enjoyable NOT to confront, quite frankly, what I consider to be evil ideas and philosophies that threaten the country my kids are growing up in.

Other than those two points its refreshing to read Dolan encouraging the liberals to rediscover their street fighting origins.

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» Great post. nm Posted by: MobileSucks

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Classic Schoolyard Bullies.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: KeepsonTickn on Mar 25, 2008 5:35 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I cringe every time a Republican congressman or Right-Wing commentator says "Democrat Party" and the Democrats don't call him on it. Don't they understand that he is expressing his disdain for them and will continue to do so until he is forcefully called on it EVERY time he does it. Until they begin fighting back, Republicans will continue in the refrain of wife-beaters everywhere: "I do it because she deserves it."

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» That doesn't work. It's been tried. Posted by: KeepsonTickn

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Ok yes I think I've got it like down
[Report this comment]
Posted by: TonyGottlieb on Mar 25, 2008 5:49 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kind of like the most personally irresponsible deadbeat act of child abuse a person can perform is the infanticide of their own child disguised as a woman's constitutionally protected right to privacy?
Before you slip off the gloves you might want to check your flank.

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» RE: Ok yes I think I've got it like down Posted by: Chickensh*tEagle
» Oh, come on now... Posted by: Chickensh*tEagle
» RE: Oh, come on now... Posted by: Moira61
» RE: Oh, come on now... Posted by: carcinoid112

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Yeah! Bumper stickers are the answer! Genius!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: kenkruger on Mar 25, 2008 6:03 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeah, great idea guys. Let's reduce our rhetoric to catchy slogans. Let's distill complex ideas and discussions into bumper stickers. Let's replace intellectual reason with emotional button-pushing. Let's work even harder to further divide the country into two insoluble tribes, and force everyone to choose a side between US and THEM, in the battle of good versus evil.

In short, let's jump in and imitate all the worst behavior of republicans.

Or...

Just an alternative idea...maybe we could take the high road. Call me a dreamer, but I believe it is quite possible to counter this group of born-again spoiled frat guy robber barons that have taken over the country without (a)sounding like whiny condescending douchebags, or (b) becoming hateful, slogan-chanting, poop-throwing monkeys.

Our own version of Rush Limbaugh? This is genius. I can't think of anything that could possibly go wrong with this. That's exactly what we need: another loud-mouthed cheerleader for the status quo (but this time, from OUR tribe), taking cheap potshots at the ENEMY without listening to anything they say (because they are the ENEMY, they can't possibly have anything to say worth listening to).

Think very carefully before going down this road, my friends. Personally, I think we can do better. But what do I know?

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» Definition of Insanity... Posted by: Centavo
» Ooh I know... Posted by: BenjamminH
» or how about... Posted by: realtruther

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Here's some better advice
[Report this comment]
Posted by: dover23 on Mar 25, 2008 6:25 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Before reverting to name calling, maybe self-proclaimed lefties should carefully examine their own ideologies and try to figure out which ones are actually working against their own self interest. Start with the true believers in the 06 Congress "mandated' to change the situation in Iraq. The murdering is permitted to go on and on and on over there; do you really think they're not serving their masters on domestic policy?

You believe in socialism and you get socialism for millionaires. My comrades, who are the suckers?

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» RE: Please, someone humiliate me now! Posted by: andabottleof_rum

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We Should Remind Americans of Republican Sleaze & "Become Viral"
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Posted by: PeaceForUsAll on Mar 25, 2008 6:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree that we should, in a phrase, "take the gloves off" in dealing with Republicans.

I think we should remind Americans (who, in general have VERY short memories) of the long list of sleazy Republican scandals and messes in recent years.

Just as importantly, we should create text (example below) and then relinquish any copyright to it so that other like-minded people can help spread whichever parts of the message they agree with, without having to "reinvent the wheel". Then, copy and paste becomes quite useful. [My mantra, Ctrl-C Ctrl-V.]

Remember, we're fighting against Fox "news" among others who can spread their hateful tripe to millions every day. Our messages will only "get through" if they're repeated (at least) thousands of times per day on the internet.

To these ends, I present the following uncopyrighted material:

* John McBush is an Angry, Confused & Unstable REPUGnican: McAngryMcCrazyMcCain
* REPUG = Disappearing JOBS
* REPUG = High Food Prices
* REPUG = Gasoline at about $3.30 per gallon
= More WAR & saying “Water-Boarding Isn’t Torture”
= 900,000 homes in foreclosure RIGHT NOW!
= The party of Hate... Race- & Gender-Based Attacks
= Katrina, Tainted Pet Food, Lead in Toys. Where’s our Gov’t?
= Lies, Lies, Lies From Our Own Gov’t
= Airport Bathroom Sex
* NO COPYRIGHT. ALL/PART OF THIS DOCUMENT MAY BE COPIED & REPOSTED.

Finally, I believe three key words to "tag" McCain with are Angry, Confused & Unstable.

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rimchamp77
[Report this comment]
Posted by: rimchamp77 on Mar 25, 2008 6:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, how did a draft dodging weasel win the "tough guy" vote in 2004??? It baffles me how this weasel easily besmirched two war heroes in his two battles for the white house. How does doing your duty in a less than heroic - or is it patriotic/chauvinistic - fashion at times make you less of a person than some weasel who avoids danger at all costs? How does the lack of actual combat experience become a plus for the "tough on foreign policy" [based totally on committing others to combat - and spend boatloads of taxpayer cash on weapons systems] crowd???

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» Same way... Posted by: JoshuaLudd

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From Whining To Temper Tantrum - dumb idea!
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Posted by: mwinmag300 on Mar 25, 2008 6:59 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't think getting "mean", is the way to go for liberals, leftists, whatever. It just comes across as a liberal's temper tantrum which invariably includes name calling and insults that have no place in a discussion of ideology. Like the stupid bumper sticker idea - come on! Better to take the high road and ply a conservative with undeniable facts they can repect, then you might change his or her mind.

By the way, there's no need to get snippy on this.

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Yes! Yes! Yes! (The Time is Right to Fight the Right!!!)
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Posted by: PeaceForUsAll on Mar 25, 2008 7:01 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After many years of trying to get elected with "nice guy" talk, it's time for those left-of-center to (temporarily) adopt a more direct, gloves-off approach. The time is right to try to split the Right Wing... those among their ranks HATE big spenders... we need to remind them that Reagan AND Bush are by far the biggest spenders ever, with most of that money going to wasted military efforts while our bridges are crumbling, etc.

If enough Republicans realize the extent to which they've been DUPED about taxes and spending, many Republicans could defect to the Libertarian party and "'We' can take the center".

Also, please see my other post (above) about reminding Americans about "Republican Sleaze and Becoming Viral".

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Stand up and fight America!! our democracy is under attack
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Posted by: yale on Mar 25, 2008 7:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its about time this issue is being addressed. We have gone past the point where peaceful protest will have any effect. Right wing fascism is kicking the shit out of our democracy as we stand idol, scratching our heads, wondering what we should do, and trying to come up some nonviolent way to combat it. No solutions on the horizon yet folks. Time to stand up and fight. All the doomsayers, and the lost hope wimps who write here on alternet need to get with the program. Their messages do nothing but, depress moral. They seem to be able to point out everything that is wrong, but offer few solutions to make corrections. We need to lose the wimp factor, and shove it right back to all the doomsayers and wake them up.

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I agree, we need to be harsher, however, Kerry actually won.
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Posted by: Dobs on Mar 25, 2008 7:34 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kerry didn't lose because of a lack of trash talk. More people voted for John Kerry than for any presidential candidate ever. John Kerry lost because of voter fraud in Ohio for sure and probably a lot of other places. There is not a your mama joke around than can beat fraudulent touch screen voteing machines.
Any, the Democratic leaders should remain classy. It's the job of the people, comics, the writers, to take the piss out of the Republicans.

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» Kerry won?!? Posted by: BenjamminH
» RE: Kerry won?!? Posted by: carcinoid112
» RE: Kerry won?!? Posted by: EdinIowa
» Kerry did NOT win in 2004 Posted by: democracynowiniraq
» RE: Kerry did NOT win in 2004 Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: Kerry did NOT win in 2004 Posted by: democracynowiniraq
» Yes, kiddies, Kerry DID win Posted by: deepseas
» RE: Yes, kiddies, Kerry DID win Posted by: democracynowiniraq
» GIVE IT UP, Bush won in 2004 (and 2000) Posted by: democracynowiniraq

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Here's a start
[Report this comment]
Posted by: rosemutt on Mar 25, 2008 7:39 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's one for liberals to begin with. Tell your Republican friends something like: "McCain as a commander in chief? You gotta be kidding. Look at his military record; all he ever did was accidently blow up the USS Forstall, get shot down because he didn't know how to pilot his plane very well, then spent 5 years as a POW and didn't once try to escape. He sounds like an inept loser to me!"

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» Encore! Posted by: westomoon
» RE: Here's a start Posted by: Dboy

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Ideological Demagoguery
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Posted by: pdxstudent on Mar 25, 2008 7:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While there is a point to be gleaned, the rhetoric of this article is absurd. The only point in it is that we must act. I agree that it's a point that must be made, but in the end, big whoop? Everything else beyond that, and there is quite a bit in this article, is demagoguery of the most ideological sort.

I say this as a Leftist critic of the liberal and conservative Left. Argue with a man's asshole and you are just going to get shit on.

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» RE: Ideological Demagoguery Posted by: rosemutt
» Do You Really Believe That? Posted by: pdxstudent

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Pretty good
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Philip Newton on Mar 25, 2008 7:50 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The first article by a liberal in a long time that hasn't made me want to puke.

Pretty good!

Grade: B+

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Talk about the 'corporatist empire' and their 'vichy' government
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Posted by: amacd on Mar 25, 2008 8:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My pet peeve is the complete and total failure of most liberals, progressives, populists and the MSM to simply come out and use the word 'Empire'.

No one seems to have the guts to even touch the word 'empire'.

Obama is afraid to be even be called a 'liberal' (see Boston Globe article). My gawd, how he is he ever going to have the guts to confront the corporatist empire that has totally taken over our country??

My humble assessment is that all roads lead to Rome --- and all problems in the US lead to Empire.

As Hannah Arendt warned decades ago, "Empire abroad (always) entials tyranny at home."

Well, we have been seeing (and mostly ignoring) the "Empire abroad" part for the last decade or more, and particularly for the last five years of overt, murderous, criminal oil-war in Iraq.

And now we are beginning to DIRECTLY experience the "tyranny at home" part in the forms of economic oppression, spying, arrogant executive power, and the beginning of actual police-state 'tyranny' against both average citizens and our lost democracy, constitution, etc.

For too long Americans have fallen into the easy and common use of the term 'empire' in everything from local pizza joints, taxi companies, and the state name where all the Wall Street crooks operate their real 'corporatist Empire'.

Short-sighted intellectuals writing about 'The American Empire' and brain-dead average Americans dreaming naively about Teddy Roosevelt, are actually helping the real ruling-elite, hidden 'corporatist Empire' by talking and thinking about the empire as being 'American' ---- and by assuming that an 'American Empire' connotes strength, and that it will somehow benefit American citizens (ie. themselves) --- maybe with oil booty.

Obviously, any such wishful visions of an 'American Empire' being beneficial to Americans is total, soft-sell propagnada and hard BS.

The real empire is (like all empires) an elitist, nasty, militarist, heartless, dictatorial, exploitation and killing machine, which is run to benefit only a tiny, elite, pinnacle of a non-democratic pyramid ---- after all, that's what empires are, stupid.

In our case this modern and unique 'corporatist Empire' is the perfection and culmination of what started in Italy and Germany as the most modern form of fascist (corporatist) Empire with global aspirations for world power under the Nazi Empire's banner.

But wait. The Nazi (corporatist) Empire, although admired greatly by US corporate and banking elites, was naive in the extreme compared to this current global 'corporatist Empire' (which is only nominally headquartered in the US).

The Nazi Empire, when it conquered France had the limited idea to establish a complacent government in France and to hide behind this 'Vichy French' phony government --- as if the murderous corporatist Nazi Empire was not really in charge. Naturally, most countries understood this 'vichy' facade covering for the Nazi Empire behind the curtain --- although the US was the first major government to fully recognize this 'vichy' fraud as a real government.

Well, to jump ahead half a century, the current global 'corporatist Empire' **cking the US and us vastly extended the simplistic propaganda of the Nazi Empire running the simple, phony, one-party 'Vichy France' facade, and has now created an entire, sophisticated, two-party stage-show production of 'Vichy' facade government in its own occupied country --- including, of course, all the dominant 'vichy' media circus to fool the rubes.

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» RE: Cont: Talk... Posted by: carcinoid112
» RE: EMPIRE! Posted by: Longdream
» RE: late stage empire Posted by: Dboy

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it is time
[Report this comment]
Posted by: lifeaholic on Mar 25, 2008 8:27 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
SOMEONE CALLED A LIE A LIE--A LIAR A LIAR

Gore allowed them to "Credibility Gap"
him . He should have gone on TV screaming lies lies lies. I call them a liar to their face".

Kerry should have done the same.
Outrage on TV. Liars all.

Democrats best learn to say tough things to their faces.

On TV with O'Reilly call him a Liar and prove it. Tell him to shut up until you have finished.

Tim Matthews. Slap his face.

It is time to get tough

D have the record of accomplishments.

google
clarence swinney + attack

Send it to the people.

Clinton record of accomplishment. Challenge anyone to show a better record.

Show Clinton record vs Reagan.
Total KO.

Show Reagan First list
kills his legacy as faux

He was not above average in results if you use numbers.

Slap faces. Kick tails. Call a liar a liar.

D have the numbers.

Attend my forthcoming Hootenannys

Democrats Night to Remember

A Party A celebration

FACTS to destroy Republicans

THE ALL AMERICAN PARTY

clarenceswinney@bellsouth.net

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Find
[Report this comment]
Posted by: particle on Mar 25, 2008 8:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Find out what works for you, and do what you gotta do.

I like that Obama tries to inspire and bring people together. It's great! Me, I'm just a bad tempered old goat. It's what I know. Piss me off and I'll trash your gladiolas and gnaw the tires off your goddam hummer. Make the mistake of bending over and I'll butt your pasty ass into the next county.

Bottom line the bastards have declared war on YOU. Deal with it. If you decide to push back, don't just flail about. Keep your balance and keep your head. Aim your blows, and take your knocks. Be tough. Be focused. And don't be a Johnny One Note. That's just boring.

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Feels Good, Doesn't Work
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Posted by: sluckenbill on Mar 25, 2008 8:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is one of those "feel good" strategies that doesn't work. It's like spanking children--in practice it sounds good-- but it doesn't work.

The Republicans sank their ship when they got their way. Sometimes the best way to teach children a lesson is to let them live with the consequences of their actions. The Republicans crashed the country and everyone lives with the results-- including the "suckers" who voted for them. They got to try their way and everybody sees it's wrong-- even those who won't admit it.

Now we're ready for someone like Obama who can lift everyone up and make them feel good about doing the right thing. The "suckers" know they were wrong. Everyone knows but Obama gives them a way to save face. That's the way real leaders on the playground succeed.

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» RE: Feels Good, Doesn't Work Posted by: EdinIowa
» and you did what? Posted by: tbone
» RE: Feels Good, Doesn't Work Posted by: YogiBear

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Repitition Works! And, REPUGs know how to create "catchy" tags.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: PeaceForUsAll on Mar 25, 2008 8:33 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I believe three key words to "tag" McCain with are Angry, Confused & Unstable.

Democrats have come so incredibly close to winning so many times.

WE MUST TEMPORARILY TAKE THE GLOVES OFF this year if we're going to avoid Four (or EIGHT) more years of REPUGnican, fascist rule!

McCain: Angry, Confused & Unstable.

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My Perspective...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: dave16 on Mar 25, 2008 8:43 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please see www.discussrace.com

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Interesting idea
[Report this comment]
Posted by: happyhermit on Mar 25, 2008 8:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
which i mostly disagree with. but i think in certain cases it's worth the effort not simply to spit back playground insults, but to REDEFINE the words that "conservatives" unfairly use against "liberals". take, for example, being "soft", as the writer mentions, or being a "pussy". Why not suggest that being scared of Al Queda is being a pussy? That running behind the shelter of our swollen military is cowardice, not bravery, when the threat we face does not warrant the use of bombs.

and then there's the whole "anti-american" thing, the usurpation of patriotism. why not suggest that being duped by a stupid president isn't patriotism, but rather blindness and idiocy?

i agree that "liberals" need to get "tough", but we should qualify the concept of toughness so that it is alignment with "liberal" values.

but there is constructive anger and destructive anger. i don't consider violence a history to take pride in or a productive strategy for the future. and i put "liberal" in scarequotes for two main reasons:

1.) i don't agree with everything every other so-called liberal agrees with, and i think identity politics, team politics, partisan herding, and checklist value-systems can be counterproductive. "politics" is a concept, and the mission of government and activism is supposed to be to solve problems and make lives easier for people. it's not capture-the-flag or paintball.

2.) it simply doesn't make sense to claim to advocate for peace in the middle east while picking fights with your neighbors here. it smacks of hypocrisy, which is why this idea of resorting to insults is problematic.

as a young person i think it's true that you could probably win over younger converts by convincing them that being conservative is not "cool" (cool as being, like, what's on television), and by pointing to the fact that Obama is a lot cooler than McCain (which is why Obama is such a promising concept), but everyone is different, and adopting a single-minded strategy of lashing out against any person you deem to be a political adversary can just as easily fan their flames as make them go "oh yea, you sound tough, maybe you're right."

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» also Posted by: happyhermit
» RE: Interesting idea Posted by: deepseas

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Not gonna hapen.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: bettyn on Mar 25, 2008 8:50 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Liberals these days are too busy savaging each other over the Democratic nomination. I'm beginning to think Dems, liberal or otherwise, have a death wish.

We're in for FOUR MORE YEARS of Repuke horseshit. God knows what happens after that.

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» RE: Not gonna hapen. Posted by: mwinmag300

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Two types of conservatives: millionaires and ignorant suckers
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Posted by: scott.gregory on Mar 25, 2008 8:52 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
RE: "There are two kinds of Republicans: millionaires and suckers."
Because most non-rich Republicans think of themselves as consevatives, I think the subject line would be more effective. It doesn't say that Republicans are "dumb-suckers" which smears a whole group of people; it allows that those persons are just uninformed. JMHO

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Well, thank you John Dolan
[Report this comment]
Posted by: sausage on Mar 25, 2008 8:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been saying this from the first time I ever got into an Internet discusion board argument with right wingnuts.

We forget that the roots of the progressive/populist movement was a workingman's movement. A cussin', fightin' movement.

Wing nuts don't care about hurting "liberals'" feelings, why should we care about their's?

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» Remember Mother Jones!!! Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Well, thank you John Dolan Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Well, thank you John Dolan Posted by: redceres

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A bad idea
[Report this comment]
Posted by: sweetossian on Mar 25, 2008 9:03 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Meanness and tactics of humiliation do not change minds.
I can understand the frustration, but if we genuinely want to see people rethink their positions, insulting them is a mistake (even if the insults are true).
The strategies discussed in this article only make people dig deeper into their trenches.

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To get the "lower class vote". . .
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Posted by: redceres on Mar 25, 2008 9:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
. . .stop putting all white people in the same privileged box. In fact, stop You are directly responsible for excluding people when you make these huge generalizations about who "WE" who read Alternet and vote progressive are. You also make it very hard for poor whites, blacks, and Latinos to work together, for one thing, because you participate in pitting them against each other, and you make it very, very hard for poor whites to feel any kinship to the liberal forces in our country, who so obviously despise them and denigrate them whenever possible.

Part of the reason that the "lower class" resents liberals is that people really resent the way that liberal mouthpieces talk about "we" privileged white people who have it so easy in "our" country and tut-tut about what "we" have done to "them," with the identity of "them" changing per conversation and issue but NEVER including poor whites in your concerns.

When YOU guys say "we," what you mean is urban and suburban white city folk whose families are well-placed and who have access to a huge range of services and opportunities. Guess what--we're not all in that box. Some of us have families who've been living back in the hollows, bothering no one, enslaving no one, and benefitting from nothing but our own hard work, for three hundred years. We are not part of your centers of power. We do not benefit from your "privileges," including our shared skin color, which doesn't help a lot when the government and corporations from YOUR backyard collude in order to destroy us.

In the Appalachians, where OUR back yards are being blown to smithereens by YOU industrialists and mallrat pro-capitalists in the major population centers on both coasts, and where YOU talk with hatred and intolerance about those of us scraping to get by on whatever our corrupt government and business communities leave us, and where YOU participate in supporting laws that keep US in line so that your power supplies and income streams aren't interrupted, WE (liberal AND conservative rural folk) are pretty damn sick of hearing how privileged we are and that it's our own damn fault if we're poor and underprivileged. . . because we're white.

To us, that reads as "You people suck. You are embarrassing. You are in our way. If you have a problem, shut up and use your special white superpowers."

Of course, the discrimination against the people of the mountains is old, and it is JUST as institutionalized as racism against African Americans, and it is just as unfair and hard to escape.

But WE lack allies in YOU--except maybe for Robert Kennedy Jr., who at least pays attention in spite of the fact that YOU (or your representatives) respond publicly to our plight with snide remarks about NASCAR and trailer parks.

And it's VERY easy to find examples of the liberal hierarchy and rank-and-file making fun of and forcefully excluding these people. You guys sell us out repeatedly for a period of a hundred years, and we're supposed to do WHAT?

People in the mountains have seen you people using your power and "privilege" for generations to help out this group and that group, managing our laws, our behavior, and even our language on behalf of the oppressed, but you never manage to include rural folks of any kind.

That smacks of betrayal.

Almost 500 of our central Appalachian mountains have been DESTROYED, and the profits shipped to your privileged cities so that whites, blacks, latinos, you name it, who live in those places can benefit from the destruction of our communities.

It's, of course, horrible what happened during Hurricane Katrina, tragice how many people were displaced, how may communities torn apart and how much history lost. . .so why doesn't it matter to you when the same things has been happening here every day for generations?

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» Thank You Posted by: pdxstudent
» Transcending ego Posted by: deepseas
» Thanks for the spanking Posted by: kegbot1
» 2nd Amendment Posted by: Dboy
» RE: 2nd Amendment Posted by: Intellect
» Well, hello mountain sister! Posted by: redceres
» and again I distract myself Posted by: redceres

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This guy is very, very right.
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Posted by: Nickdanger007 on Mar 25, 2008 9:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where were the liberals during the recount in Florida? I watched the paid Rethuglican mob beating on the walls and windows of the recount office and wondered where were the local Democrats? Why weren't they out in force, defending their state constitution? Get in the way, be ready to retaliate. I've done labor organizing and developed a much harder attitude about such things than most of my liberal friends. They want to reason and debate and there's a place for that. But you'd also better be ready to bust heads when necessary. I've already made and put on my car his suggested bumper stickers. I long ago discovered that Rethuglican bullies are just like any other bully--confront them and they usually back down.

I have anti-Bush bumper stickers and one way I respond to hand gestures, etc. is a nice one, I just hold up a sign that says,"1st Amendment." Somebody confronted me once in a parking lot and I said, "Why do you hate the Bill of Rights?"

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This is class warfare
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Posted by: Nickdanger007 on Mar 25, 2008 9:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and the vast majority of Americans are losing. Point that out at every opportunity. And know your facts.

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» You're on target, Nick Posted by: deepseas

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We Must Fight Back (and FIGHT HARD) NOW!!!
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Posted by: PeaceForUsAll on Mar 25, 2008 9:26 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree that we should, in a phrase, "take the gloves off" in dealing with Republicans.

I think we should remind Americans (who, in general have VERY short memories) of the long list of sleazy Republican scandals and messes in recent years.

Just as importantly, we should create text (example below) and then relinquish any copyright to it so that other like-minded people can help spread whichever parts of the message they agree with, without having to "reinvent the wheel". Then, copy and paste becomes quite useful. [My mantra, Ctrl-C Ctrl-V.]

Remember, we're fighting against Fox "news" among others who can spread their hateful tripe to millions every day. Our messages will only "get through" if they're repeated (at least) thousands of times per day on the internet.

To these ends, I present the following uncopyrighted material:

* John McBush is an Angry, Confused & Unstable REPUGnican: McAngryMcCrazyMcCain
* REPUG = Disappearing JOBS
* REPUG = High Food Prices
* REPUG = Gasoline at about $3.30 per gallon
= More WAR & saying “Water-Boarding Isn’t Torture”
= 900,000 homes in foreclosure RIGHT NOW!
= The party of Hate... Race- & Gender-Based Attacks
= Katrina, Tainted Pet Food, Lead in Toys. Where’s our Gov’t?
= Lies, Lies, Lies From Our Own Gov’t
= Airport Bathroom Sex
* NO COPYRIGHT. ALL/PART OF THIS DOCUMENT MAY BE COPIED & REPOSTED.

Finally, I believe three key words to "tag" McCain with are Angry, Confused & Unstable.

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Thank Heavens, Someone Finally Said It!
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Posted by: djnoll on Mar 25, 2008 9:27 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For about a year now I have been railing on my blog about how we needed to act. I have used words there that are not politically correct, just as I use them in my life in discussing such things as race, politics, religion, education, public policy and other things. I get mad! My husband will tell you that sometimes I am positively fanatical in my anger! Every American in this country today should be, and it is why I posted on my website a new Declaration of Independence and a Second Constitution.

It is time to put political correctness aside and start speaking honestly to people. If you do not like someone's politics, tell them and tell them why in no uncertain terms. I may have very well ruined a friendship last night when I received an e-mail with a news article from a racist, religious right idiot that was lying about Obama and Rev. Wright being many things that they are not now and never were. I let my friend know that I thought this was ignorant drivel and that anyone who believed it obviously had their own racist tendencies. I even went so far as to point out that I had heard her own Missionary Baptist preacher and a guest preacher both preach murder of all Muslims from the pulpit and that it was hardly a Christian thing to do. I do not know what the fallout will be, but I am so sick of the kind of political correctness that allows this kind of mudslinging to go on, that I drew the line. I also sent her the clips from brave new films of the entire sermon, the article about the man Rev. Wright was quoting, and the entire transcript of Sen. Obama's speech, and suggested that if she was going to be voting in November, maybe she should do it as an informed voter, not someone who would foolishly believe a pack of lies because some religious idiot wrote in a local paper.

It is time to stop drawing lines in the sand, and start fighting back, and fighting back hard. We are on the brink of a civil war, and if we are not careful, we will be fighting it while our country is fighting a world war as well. So, stop the political niceties and start fighting back. When a politician is slandered, do not just sit back and say nothing - SPEAK UP AND SHOUT THAT THE PERSON IS A LIAR!
Do it with reason and with proof of your facts, but do not let it pass or let your response be weak. The days of political correctness must end, or the one thing that will be lost forever is the TRUTH! We have already sold out our birthright for eight years, because of political correctness, now it is time to STAND UP AND FIGHT BACK! IT IS TIME TO SPEAK THE HARD, COLD TRUTH! IT IS TIME TO STOP THOSE WHO USE OUR ELECTIONS TO SLING MUD OR SMEAR AS A WAY OF HIDING POLITICAL WEAKNESS! IT IS TIME TO TAKE BACK AMERICA!

http://www.standanddeliveramerica.com

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» I've lost friends too Posted by: kegbot1
» Depends Posted by: deepseas
» RE: Depends Posted by: YogiBear

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GINI says we're **cked
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Posted by: amacd on Mar 25, 2008 9:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, its class warfare.

The US has a GINI coefficient index of wealth and income INEQUALITY which matches Paraguay, Zambia, and oil monarchies.

But no one knows it.

The US is 'off the charts' in the middle and working classes being **cked by the ruling elite.

But saying anything about this radical distortion in inequality would be viewed as being 'too blunt', 'nasty', pandering to 'class warfare', and using impolite 'fighting words'.

Tell the radical right-wing corporatist Empire that they are **cking us economically --- like nowhere else in the developed world.

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Plain talk
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Posted by: Ignatz deFyre on Mar 25, 2008 9:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
unadulterated and direct is now only to be found in the movies, for its entertainment value. Everywhere else we have political correctness and obfuscation, since language in the USA is a tool to sedate the citizenry. A good electorate is a compliant electorate. A good customer is an unquestioning customer. The good citizen sucks on the glass teat, eats their Big Mac and beer nuts with their Bud, buys their Chinese schmatas at Walmart, votes for the cardboard cut-out presented to them, and shuts up. Having too many educated, thinking and outspoken people complicates the business of amassing power and making money.

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» RE: Plain talk Posted by: deepseas

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Excellent Point!
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Posted by: newtype_alpha on Mar 25, 2008 9:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seeing how bumpersticker slogans and sound bites are the only thing Republicans understand ANYWAY, it makes sense that we should start talking to them in a language that they understand. Rightists have a long and infamous history of supressing dissent with a few half-assed political slogans i.e. "Support the troops!" or "America: love it or get out!" or "You don't want the terrorists to win, do you?" that are so hard to argue with just because they're so stupid.

The most effective answer is, of course, "Support the troops: BRING THEM HOME!" or "America: love it and get Bush out!" etc. You can't really reason with people who are used to communicating in stump slogans, so the best you can do is come up with a better stump slogan to shut them up.

"There are only two kinds of Republicans: millionaires and suckers." That may not be the most accurate or enlightened point, but it at least gets the point across for the suckers. Or you could always try: "Cut MY taxes, not Haliburton's!" The purpose of such communication isn't to try and reason with those on the right. The purpose is simply to make points, as many as possible in the shortest amount of time, at least enough to persuade or at least silence the right enough to make some real progress in this country.

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Numbskulls, Nitwits, Knuckleheads, and Nincompoops
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Posted by: willymack on Mar 25, 2008 9:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Are, sadly, abundant here, and are not going to go away any time soon, if ever. This fact is well known to the neocrooks who play these people like a harp. It may even be said that the dummy class is an artifice, produced through dumbing-down of public school curricula and the chronic underfunding of the same, despite buzzwords like "no child left behind" (my ass!). We all must share part of the blame in the decline of literacy and the lack of curiosity so evident in so many of our people. As to the subject of this article, acting out in kind seems to me an exercise in futility, and plays the game the aforementioned lackwits do. The trick here is to not play their game. Dr. Eric Berne wrote a book entitled "Games People Play" in 1968, and is a study of what he called "Transactional Analysis". He followed this book with an even better one entitled"Games Alcoholics Play". The purport of both these books is that those who resist logical arguements do so by framing the arguement in their terms, while ignoring obvious facts. The "I know you are, but what am I?" reply (the Peewee Herman response) is one we liberals know all too well. The rethugs deflect all criticisms-no matter how justified by facts in evidence-in this manner. This has filtered down to the Joe Sixpack portion of our population, and trying to reason with them is like trying to climb a greased flagpole. The ONLY solition to this sorry state of affairs is to turn out in record numbers and vote the RIGHT way in November. (Hint: Don't vote for mccain). With a solid majority in the Senate and a Democrat in the White House, we can push across measures beneficial to all of us, much as a parent holds the nose of a child to give him a foul tasting, but necessary medicine. Don't worry; the fools among us seem to LIKE having things shoved down their throats.

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Just my take
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Posted by: Artkansas on Mar 25, 2008 9:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Conservatism equates to selfishness. Liberalism equates to selflessness.

How you get a conservative to give up his/her cowering selfishness is something I don't know. That's also why the poor have traditionally been liberal. They understand the suffering of others.

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» RE: Just my take Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: HORSE! Posted by: Longdream
» You are confusing things. Posted by: Artkansas
» RE: Just my take Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: Just my take Posted by: Intellect

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One America, not two!
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Posted by: carbon-based on Mar 25, 2008 10:12 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is probably the most divisive article I've read in some time. With Obama making overtures of unity and work for America vs your own party I cannot see how this article was even allowed on here.

""Stop policing the language and start using it to hurt our enemies. "" - ENEMIES?.. who exactly are the ENEMY..MUSLIMS?. AL QAEDA? or conservatives?? I thought the last group were Americans also.. ENEMIES!!!

No wonder liberals have such a bad rap with mindless dribble such as this.

Forget party politics and start thinking of America!

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» RE: One America, not two! Posted by: EdinIowa
» RE: One America, not two! Posted by: redceres
» RE: One America, not two! Posted by: Quannah
» Do you feel sick? Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Do you feel sick? Posted by: redceres
» RE: One America, not two! Posted by: ohb0b
» RE: One America, not two! Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: One America, not two! Posted by: Xynyx
» Imagine! Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: One America, not two! Posted by: Intellect

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This Author Vibrates at a Lower Level
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Posted by: Gravitas on Mar 25, 2008 10:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
of consciousness than many of us. It is not just this article, but others I have read by him. Not that there is anything really wrong with calling a Bush voter a sucker. I don't think it is all that humiliating. I see "liberals" using that term all along, I think the author is out of step! But real humiliation is NEVER a good means to motivate others.

"We must reject what is humiliating." Gandhi

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Mixed feelings on this
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Posted by: hurricane hugo on Mar 25, 2008 10:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While I have used the described tactic, and have had success with it, I'm not at all sure I'd want to see every liberal doing it. I'm not a nice person, and I wouldn't want there to be vast armies of people like me.

jdfu!

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» RE: Mixed feelings on this Posted by: deepseas

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McCain: Angry, Confused and Unstable
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Posted by: PeaceForUsAll on Mar 25, 2008 11:09 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What the REPUGnicans have proved for about 30 years now is that what works is to use QUICK, SIMPLE phrases REPEATEDLY to describe your opponent. As in:

-- McCain: Angry, Confused and Unstable. --

The above text is NOT COPYRIGHTED. All or any part may be freely copied and reposted.

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Stockholm Syndrome
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Posted by: pdxstudent on Mar 25, 2008 11:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dolan's piece sounds more like Stockholm's syndrome than an intelligent response to 20+ years of right-wing propaganda. It assumes what those pundits have been telling us for years, that Leftists are ineffectual wimps. The right has taken over most major news-media outlets in order to give an "objective" texture to this ludicrous assertion, in order to make it realistic. Dolan's piece takes these pundits too seriously when it assumes the very posture of those it attacks, who are only attacking the Left precisely insofar as they get the Left to attack itself. Of course, who do the Left attack except the puppet of itself collectively envisioned care of the corporate media complex? I say Dolan's piece, on the whole, is a symptom of the very problem it ultimately seeks to resolve.

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» RE: Stockholm Syndrome Posted by: redceres

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EXCELLENT article.
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Posted by: Vince2 on Mar 25, 2008 11:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Great ideas, & astute, sometimes hilarious, observations.

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the warrior
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Posted by: bluepilgrim on Mar 25, 2008 11:52 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tough and ruthless does not mean crude, mean, or wantonly destructive. (Examples: the samurai, or the medieval knight.)

Remember, however, that the cruelest thing can be the simple truth, and that's something the so-called 'left' or 'liberals' often skirt around. Also, they often lack persistance and resoluteness.

But keep in mind that many who call themselves 'left' are just fascists in disguise -- this is particularly true of politicians -- who really are 'wimps' and go where the political wind blows them. Pelosi and Reid are like that -- they can be stubborn, but are not resolute or courageous. Some other 'liberals' are just ignorant and confused, and have no greater intellectual development that the cons.

A consumate warrior is, above all, sane and based in reality (actual reality -- not the counterfeits which the cons so often talk about, as in so-called "real-politiks). That's a difficult thing to achieve, and one must work at it. Words like "empire", "fascism", and 'lie' are part of current reality, and so of course should be used where appropriate.

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» RE: YES! the warrior Posted by: scryberwitch

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Yes. TAKE THE GLOVES OFF TO SAVE THE U.S.
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Posted by: PeaceForUsAll on Mar 25, 2008 11:55 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree that we should, in a phrase, "take the gloves off" in dealing with Republicans.

I think we should remind Americans (who, in general have VERY short memories) of the long list of sleazy Republican scandals and messes in recent years.

Just as importantly, we should create text (example below) and then relinquish any copyright to it so that other like-minded people can help spread whichever parts of the message they agree with, without having to "reinvent the wheel". Then, copy and paste becomes quite useful. [My mantra, Ctrl-C Ctrl-V.]

Remember, we're fighting against Fox "news" among others who can spread their hateful tripe to millions every day. Our messages will only "get through" if they're repeated (at least) thousands of times per day on the internet.

To these ends, I present the following uncopyrighted material:

* John McBush is an Angry, Confused & Unstable REPUGnican: McAngryMcCrazyMcCain
* REPUG = Disappearing JOBS
* REPUG = High Food Prices
* REPUG = Gasoline at about $3.30 per gallon
= More WAR & saying “Water-Boarding Isn’t Torture”
= 900,000 homes in foreclosure RIGHT NOW!
= The party of Hate... Race- & Gender-Based Attacks
= Katrina, Tainted Pet Food, Lead in Toys. Where’s our Gov’t?
= Lies, Lies, Lies From Our Own Gov’t
= Airport Bathroom Sex
* NO COPYRIGHT. ALL/PART OF THIS DOCUMENT MAY BE COPIED & REPOSTED.

Finally, I believe three key words to "tag" McCain with are Angry, Confused & Unstable.

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ash903
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Posted by: ash903 on Mar 25, 2008 12:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Amen. This is very well said. The other day, two outpatient veterans, waiting for transportation home, were talking. One said, Do you think the Democrats will do it for us? Other veteran: No, they do not support veterans or the men fighting. The Democrats are going to lose a lot of these guys, because of this perception, even though many of these guys are not in favor of the Iraq War, but feel disowned and abandoned by the Democrats; and that the Democrats are gutless, caring more about quashing language that might offend somebody than standing up on their hind legs and fighting for their stated agenda (improving opportunity for the poor and middle class; universal affordable health care; halting our jobs being sent to other countries; meaningful support for education; reversing unfair tax cuts for the wealthy; and so forth).

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lol! Funny and well said!!!
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Posted by: Ghoulman on Mar 25, 2008 1:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Great article! I've been saying this myself. In fact, I've been hounding the Right Wing BBS sock-puppet mob for years. They are complete liars and scoundrels, I've never, ever, lost an argument. They are complete straw-men when it comes to any facts. They always, and always, use the school yard tactics this article describes with such great wit!

If an uneducated port-town kid like me can best the paid Right Wing online PR army (many of these people are paid to post online 24/7 propelling the propaganda you know) with THE FACTS and school-yard tactics... it should be a breeze for you college brats? ROTFL! Hope so. ;p

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Call a Republican out today
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Posted by: leafsong1 on Mar 25, 2008 1:18 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Talking tough is good, but it only goes so far. Some people refuse to respect you until you slug them in the face. You don't have to win the fight, you just have to land one good blow.

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» out now Posted by: openhouse
» RE: out now Posted by: Longdream
» phony Posted by: openhouse
» phony Posted by: openhouse
» RE: phony Posted by: Longdream
» loser Posted by: openhouse
» RE: out now Posted by: leafsong1
» little fists Posted by: openhouse

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Ridicule is more effective than confrontation
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Posted by: jimbee on Mar 25, 2008 1:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Right wingers play to our instinct to follow the alpha male in times of crisis--an adaptation in a tribal world but not today. Bush knows how to look presidential and to manufacture a sense of danger to obtain sheepish credulity from his base. That needs to be punctured and it wouldn't take much to do it. Attacking him may actually help him--conservatives NEED enemies to foster a siege mentality among their supporters. Far better to make him look silly and irrelevant.

Conservative ideology is full of contradiction. To make it seem plausible one has to ignore a lot of things. You don't need to get nasty with conservatives--just don't be afraid to seem impolite by reminding them of all those niggling little facts of life that make their worldview an unreal fantasy world. Always offer a realistic alternative for them to move to.

The hard core neanderthals can't be converted, but there are too few of them to win elections. Many of their followers can be peeled away from the movement if their leaders are made to look ineffective.

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I'm not being a wimp or pulling my punches
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Posted by: dajson on Mar 25, 2008 3:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Something I read about the Bush/Kerry election is that it was the very first election in American history between two candidates for President who both were members of the mysterious Scull and Bones fraternaty at Yale. According to what I read it would violate Kerry's oath to contest an election against another Skull and Bones'man. That might explain why he didn't fight so hard or contest an obviously stolen election. There is currently a trial over the Warren county in Ohio who declaired a "terrorist emergency" on election day then took the ballots into a private warehouse with nobody allowed in in order to count the votes, which have turned out to be inaccurate. One problem with articles like this telling progressives to be more like the assholes we can't stand is that it's a good way to alienate a base. Once the liberals are as loathsome as the Conservatives we abhore watch lots of decent liberals abandon a party they once were able to apprieciate before because then they didn't lower themselves to such depths of discusting behavior. Democrats would do better to perfect a passive aggresive strategy since they have always been the passive aggresive party who remains above the party we are all discusted by. I'm as frustrated as the next guy by the Democrat lack of spine we all talk about, but I'm in no hurry to see my party become like Republicans who I've been against since Reagan. I wouln't want to see that coup succeed.

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mlou
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Posted by: ericksonml@sbcglobal.net on Mar 25, 2008 3:10 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) My favorite bumper sticker is about Humvies: "Men who drive Humvies HAVE small dicks; Women who drive Humvies ARE small dicks."

2) I have NO pride in American violence: 'Americans' committed genocide on Native American Indians.

3)We should not glorify American 'manliness' and violence which is used to: a) sell cigarettes (re 'suckers' b)breed cannonfodder, c) glorify the war machine which makes weapons manufacturers into billionaires (Re: 'suckers' again.)

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Not Getting Mean, Just Getting Real
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Posted by: westomoon on Mar 25, 2008 3:26 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When did calling a spade a spade become aggression? It's socially uncomfortable sometimes, but it's a lot different from poking somebody in the chest, or invading their country.

After the '04 election, while I was numbly wondering "what next?", I vowed that I would stop being politely silent. I have, and it turns out to be simple.

I laugh at things that are ridiculous. When something seems crazy to me, I say so, or laugh and say, "Nice irony!" When I know a statement is false, I say, "You think so? Here's what I know." When something reminds me of Nazis, I say so, cheerfully. I write letters to the editor when something silly or crazy is published, and give the sane-world version. And, most of all, when someone co-opts a group to prayer, I get up and leave (at best) or ask them to take it outside (when I'm cranky).

I thought this would feel like aggression to do, but it doesn't. It just feels like honesty. And I think that's what's so hard to take about things like Kerry letting Bush's campaign call him a phony soldier -- when Kerry doesn't respond, he's colluding in the lie.

The other thing I've noticed about getting more honest is that other people relax when you do it -- not the wing-nuts, but the other silent people. You get thanks, you get fan mail, and sometimes you make it feel safe for other people to speak out too. I think what happens when we are silent is that we let the crazies move the "normal" indicator another notch toward lunacy. When we speak up, we move reality a notch back toward rationality. You don't hafta get mad, you just hafta get real.

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» BRAVO!!! Posted by: deepseas

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"There are two kinds of Republicans: millionaires and suckers."
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Posted by: Mel H. on Mar 25, 2008 3:44 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"There are two kinds of Republicans: millionaires and suckers." This is absolutely true and should be made into a bumper sticker. Maybe, the word "millionaires" should be changed to "billionaires".

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Terrorist
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Posted by: HeKnew on Mar 25, 2008 4:59 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What a bunch of gutless pussies.

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This works a bit
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Posted by: marid on Mar 25, 2008 5:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I hear the claptrap and drivel from the Repugs I ask them if they are Conservative. They always reply Yes. Then I call them stupid and ask them what the three tenets of Goldwater Conservatism were. They have no clue. 1. Pay your bills. 2. Stay out of my life. 3. Stay out of other countries business.

They are dumb asses and should be told that often with reasons given for their dead butts.

I agree we need to quit being so nice. The lies need to be called every time. The Pirates of Wall Street need to hung. We kill a kid with a taser for stealing Hot Pockets while Mitt Romney and his ilk rape our country.

Their lines of BS need to be called out. Every time. Write the letters, make the calls, send the Emails, question public stupidity, and when they drag out the Bible to use as a trump card yell hypocrite at the top of your lungs.

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Bah
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Posted by: Logic's Edge on Mar 25, 2008 6:19 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"At some point liberal writers are going to have to decide if it's OK to be young and male at all. For better or for worse, millions of American men hold on to playground ethics long after they leave elementary school."

What stupid arrogance. I couldn't be bothered to read the rest of your article after this.

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Listening Projects Work!
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Posted by: PaulK on Mar 25, 2008 6:23 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A listening project is when a group of activists goes out and asks questions of many people in a community.

It turns out that people change their own minds when they exercise their own minds, when they try on commonly held ideas for size and find the ideas don't work for them.

Other people arguing at them doesn't work because it doesn't give them a chance to think for themselves.

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» Yes... Posted by: deepseas

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boonie
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Posted by: LeeW on Mar 25, 2008 7:23 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Great. Once again men are yardstick by which we are all measured and found wanting. The schoolyard bully held up as hero. Sorry, but I aspire to something higher than thuggery.

Someone mentioned the samurai. The root of bushi (japanese for "warrior") is "bu", which is usually translated as "war", or "conflict". The kanji for "bu" is, IIRC, based on the original chinese symbol for war, the spear/sword plus other lines indicating a barrier, or stopping of the spear. Thus the way of the warrior is the way of preventing conflict.

I have been in the martial arts a long time and I will tell you that, yes, sometimes you have to defend yourself with force, but in the end anger only breeds anger. Hurt only breeds hurt. At best, we live to regret our actions. At worst, we become that which we hate.

The conservatives have, indeed, found the chink in liberal armor. Men. They call liberals "pussies". Which, for most men, is the ultimate, the most unbearable insult. It sets them frothing at the mouth and somehow forces them to prove otherwise. Mostly by behaving like conservatives. Who can then, quite rightly say, there's no difference between the parties.

If we become what we oppose, then what have we won? I don't want your world any more than I want theirs.

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» Egos Posted by: deepseas

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Stupidity is Not Patriotic
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Posted by: happyhermit on Mar 25, 2008 8:00 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
there's a good bumper sticker

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Mischaracterizing conservatives
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Posted by: VeryBlessed on Mar 25, 2008 8:39 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I’m a Christian and former liberal. To the question of how to approach conservatives, I’d suggest starting with how this article (and liberalism in general) characterizes them: absolutely 100% wrong in everything they believe and think for all time; not caring if they’re cruel and insensitive, but only if they get embarrassed; Beavis and Butthead to the liberals’ Dr. Driessen; and, dirty (corrupt). Those impressions just aren't true. The options aren’t just “patronizing” or insulting conservatives (neither of which is new).

Here’s how one liberal has decided that conservatism is not all that liberalism has made it out to be: Why I Am No Longer a 'Brain-Dead Liberal'“ - David Mamet. I was politically liberal for most of my life but started to recognize many of the things he points out.

Here’s an example from an Alternet story of the sorts of things that made me look at things differently. The recent article,“Are Modern Women Miserable?,” say about things like race, class and the Third World? Who’s the “modern woman,” according to it? Give that article to any politically active conservative and none of them need any conservative leader “thinking for them” to have the hypocrisy pointed out. All they need is the memory of liberal words - words claiming to be better than them on those very things while also pointing the finger at them. And that’s exactly what happens - conservatives read and listen to a lot of what liberals say and watch what they do and see if it really stacks up to what they claim to believe.

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» Whither the CONSERVATION? Posted by: Itsthewater
» RE: Whither the CONSERVATION? Posted by: VeryBlessed
» RE: Whither the CONSERVATION? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Whither the CONSERVATION? Posted by: VeryBlessed
» RE: Whither the CONSERVATION? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Whither the CONSERVATION? Posted by: VeryBlessed
» RE: Mischaracterizing? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Mischaracterizing? Posted by: VeryBlessed
» RE: Mischaracterizing? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Mischaracterizing? Posted by: VeryBlessed
» RE: Mischaracterizing? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Mischaracterizing? Posted by: VeryBlessed
» RE: Mischaracterizing? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Mischaracterizing? Posted by: VeryBlessed
» RE: Mischaracterizing? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Mischaracterizing? Posted by: VeryBlessed
» RE: Mischaracterizing? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Mischaracterizing? Posted by: VeryBlessed
» RE: Mischaracterizing? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Mischaracterizing? Posted by: VeryBlessed
» RE: Mischaracterizing? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Mischaracterizing? Posted by: VeryBlessed
» RE: Mischaracterizing? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Mischaracterizing? Posted by: VeryBlessed
» RE: Mischaracterizing? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Mischaracterizing? Posted by: VeryBlessed
» RE: Mischaracterizing? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Are you serious? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Are you serious? Posted by: VeryBlessed
» RE: Are you serious? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Are you serious? Posted by: VeryBlessed
» RE: Are you serious? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Are you serious? Posted by: VeryBlessed
» RE: Are you serious? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Are you serious? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Are you serious? Posted by: VeryBlessed
» RE: Are you serious? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Are you serious? Posted by: VeryBlessed
» RE: Are you serious? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Are you serious? Posted by: VeryBlessed
» RE: Are you serious? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Are you serious? Posted by: VeryBlessed

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Edith---we got SCREWED!
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Mar 25, 2008 8:48 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem is: the typical laboring-class Joe that supports Bush just doesn't want to admit to the fact that he got friggin' SCREWED by the Republicans. He got sold a snake oil remedy, he had the wool pulled over his eyes.

I live in rural Nebraska, and the pickup driving crowd out here, the ones whose motto is "beer, pussy, guns, and Jesus"; they would rather die than admit that they were wrong.

Remember Archie Bunker in "All in the Family"? Starting from when he supported Reagan in 1980, he should say today: "Edit...we got screwed!"

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» RE: dith---we got SCREWED! Posted by: YogiBear

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Short winded - even a moron can comprehend...
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Posted by: kogwonton on Mar 25, 2008 9:08 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The "Cold War" gave us the 'right/left' deception and division in stark terms.

We allegedly fought a 50 year ideological (religious?) cold war against the philosophy of Government in control of finance, industry and trade - as if it were not Government regulation via Law which guarantees property rights to begin with.

We now have Industry and Finance (nominally 'American' - when they need our taxpayer funded military to defend their offshore 'interests') in control of Government.

We saw fifty years of Six fighting against Half a Dozen for being 'different'.

It makes no difference whether the State owns the 'Store', or if the 'Store' owns the State. It is game of 'Heads I Win, Tails You Lose'.

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Nastiness Might Backfire, Too.
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Posted by: halg on Mar 25, 2008 9:42 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just had to weigh in on this. Then I'll shut up, promise.

All of the personal, human interaction training I have ever received has emphasized patience and compassion, even when -- and especially when -- the other person or group is not being that way. The trouble with sinking to the same low level of anti-intellectual behavior is that it most times only antagonizes the other side, possibly frightening them, and maybe terminating all further attempts at conversation. Worse yet, I think, is if a rampant attack results in an escalation of bitterness and misunderstanding.

"They" are not evil, any more or less than you or me. They simply do not understand yet. Take the time (patience) and let them speak what they perceive to be truth (compassion). Then hit them with the truth ... but be wise and disciplined about it.

Two years ago when I was out protesting the war and the rest of the Bush administration lies and cruelty, less than half the passing cars honked or gave the peace sign. The finger was far more common. At the recent 5 year anniversary of the war, nearly every passing vehicle was honking, giving the peace sign. And guess what? Many of them were driving SUV's and, yes -- even Hummers!

Education is a slow and tedious, but worthwhile, effort. And many times a seeming enemy is nothing more than a friend we have not met yet. No, let's stay with the current approach; it seems to be working.

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thegreekshadawordforit
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Posted by: blogbogged on Mar 26, 2008 12:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Would that all politics could be reduced to mere words and "attitude."
Inflated testosterone sound-bites obviously are the GOP's strategy; and now, some Democrats' default?
That can be effective short-term, for example, as when the majority of the country swallowed rather than spit the transparent lies that now must put us in Baghdad (Kabul, Tehran) for decades to come, or at least until the economy collapses fully.
Names like Washington, Jefferson, King we still sometimes associate with--emphasis on the active--revolution, impeachment, civil disobedience.
What will our anticipated new American heroes be able to DO???

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llmystic
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Posted by: LLMystic on Mar 26, 2008 2:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find it interesting, and informative, how many different interpretations people had of this article. In many cases, people saw things I did not see at all. But that is good! The essay made people think, and stimulated discussion.

What I took from this article is not that it is desirable to "dumb down" our message or resort to insults and povocation of our opponents -- but rather, that we should stand up for what we believe, and respond to lies and inuendos with truth.

When I was young, I had a profound experience that supports what the writer is saying here. I was involved in the emerging gay liberation movement in the late 1960s. We were not getting any respect, or any results, by trying to engage people in rational discussions. (Gays were generally regarded as wimps, if not despicable criminals!) Generally we got shouted down, if not physically attacked (or threatened). Following the standard liberal ideology, we kept quiet and took the high road and refused to "stoop" to the tactics of our enemies (and yes they were enemies!) Our refusal to fight back only emboldened our enemies to attack us more ferociously!

Then a miracle happened. In New York, a bunch of gay men got fed up with the police violence and harrassment they had suffered for years, without fighting back; and turning the tables, locked the cops in the gay bar they were trashing, and set the place on fire! (No cops died -- no roast pig!) But following that incident, the police and the gay community engaged in weeks of riots (with "assistance" from local punks who simply came for the fight). As a result of the Stonewall riots, the gay community suddenly got RESPECT. Gay men had proved they would fight back. After that, the movement had traction. Gay pride was rooted in that violent incident, but did not require additional violence. Once we had RESPECT, we could engage people in rational discussions and they were willing to listen, and treat us as equals. The gay movement has made a lot of progress since that time, with very little violence or confrontation or use of insults. But all of that rests on the establishment of Gay Pride, and the RESPECT we got by being WILLING to fight back.

I should add that though the Black liberation movement had Martin Luther King, they also had a lot of angry young men who were willing to fight and riot for their rights. I suspect without that WILLINGNESS to resort to violence, to fight back, Martin Luther King and other non-violent advocates of change would also have been ignored.

I see this essay saying the same thing for progressives. I do feel that progressives have forgotten how to fight back. We need perhaps a progressive Stonewall Riot, or the verbal equivalent (at least) to show the enemy (and the larger number who sit on the sidelines) that we are worthy of RESPECT. We need to show we can and will fight back! Then people will listen to our rational arguments.

And Obama will benefit, without having to get involved himself -- like Martin Luther King, he can be respected as the peaceful, unifying symbol of our movement.

Peace.

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Choose your targets carefully.
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Posted by: Krotos on Mar 26, 2008 6:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I partially agree with the writer. I do think that there are some right-wingers who are, fundamentally, bullies, liars, hypocrites, fanatics, and/or simple sociopaths. And they deserve to be treated as such. I'm thinking of people like Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, Donald Rumsfeld, and also of people like Ann Coulter, Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, and their ilk -- respectively, the generals and colonels of the fascist-right crowd. The skewering David Letterman gave O'Reilly when the latter appeared on his show was one of the more enjoyable, and constructive, TV moments of the past year.

But, even among people who support Bush and the Republicans, these type are a minority. Most of the conservatives I know are not stupid or evil, just ignorant. They're the followers, not the leaders, and they can be reached out to. I had a conversation the other day with a janitor at my workplace who was completely convinced -- in March of 2008 -- that Saddam Hussein had somehow been involved in 9/11. This man was not inherently unintelligent, in my opinion, nor was he deliberately being dishonest. He just didn't know any better: the constant propaganda of the White House and talk radio had drowned out the facts for him, something for which our disgustingly incompetent news media deserves a large share of the blame. I talked with him politely and respectfully, and I think I may have managed to sow the seeds of doubt in his mind about his beliefs.

So, choose your targets carefully. You do far more harm than good if you alienate people who, if approached differently, might be persuaded to agree with you.

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"Clinton gurus"??
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Posted by: maggzilla on Mar 26, 2008 8:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article says whimpy Kerry was in the hands of "some Clinton gurus" as an excuse for being timid against the Bush attacks during the 2004 election. Please make up your minds about Clinton! As soon as Hillary Clinton fights back she is labled a bitch or devisive. You Obama Kool aid drinkers can't have it both ways!

Kerry didn't have the balls it takes to be a leader period. Regardless who his "handlers" were, if he could not call a press conference on his own and shut down the Veterans for truth mockery then forget it.

Just like Obama went along with the DNC and cast the voters of Michigan and Florida out the door, Kerry align himself with Kumbaya. It's now time for Obama to lose for leaving the voters behind and not fighting for their rights.

I agree with the article--it is time to get mean and bitchy and I hope the soft-hearted lefties can stomach that long enough to get Hillary elected.

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» RE: "Clinton gurus"?? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: "Clinton gurus"?? Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: "Clinton gurus"?? Posted by: Quannah

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Get Them While They're Hot!
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Posted by: taoNzen on Mar 26, 2008 8:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think this is right on the mark. In fact, I've gone so far as to make this exact bumper sticker. Check it out here.

I got 10 professionally printed up and I'm giving the other 9 away. I'll send them to the first 9 people who send me their mailing address. I'll even pay for it!

Now, I understand the argument about taking the high road and staying positive, but the facts are that that doesn't work.

It's also my belief that changing the minds of older Republicans is a herculean task. In my experience younger Republicans are more willing to listen, but ONLY if they respect you. A lot of them are still in this school yard stage so this aggressive in your face tactic really does get you a lot of miles. That's all just from my personal experiences.

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There's Room in the Party for Rednecks
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Posted by: Southern Gal on Mar 26, 2008 9:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I grew up in a working class family in the South. I am a redneck. My family are rednecks. We have learned when to speak softly and when to carry big sticks. I too am sick of the Democrats playing nice in the face of Republican lies and the current class warfare. Make no mistake, we the people are going down unless we learn to fight effectively. The dice are loaded and the leaderships speaks with forked tongues. I've seen it work in politics before that if one segment of the party is fighting hard and in your face, then that makes the segment of the party that is being more nice seem more reasonable to the public. We have't had a segment of the Democrat party that fights hard and in your face. The whole party looks like wimps and conciliators to the public who knows that we are facing hard times and battles with corporate control of our government, policies and economy. John Edwards said it best. You can't play nice with the corporations and lobbyists.

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Oh by the way, I NEVER play nice with the fascists
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Posted by: kegbot1 on Mar 26, 2008 10:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've spread a lot of comments on this great and thought provoking thread so I gotta plug it:

http://badamerican.wordpress.com/

Remember - always call a fascist a fascist.

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come the revolution...
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Posted by: art guerrilla on Mar 26, 2008 5:27 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...the truth commissions will lay low the power elite slime...
hee hee hee
ho ho ho
ha ha ha

an armchair anarchist can dream, can't they ? ? ?
ak ak ak

art guerrilla
aka ann archy

eof

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Deficit Spending Neocons
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Posted by: pae808 on Mar 26, 2008 11:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My buddy and I have long thought that the left needs to counter the "tax and spend liberal" label that has been repeated trillions of times by the right with something similar back at em'

Ideas include:
--Deficit Spending NeoCons
--Borrow and Spend Conservatives

Using the same playbook as our political enemies, we should pick one of these names and repeat the shit out of it until it sticks - the key is it needs to be related to financial irresponsibility.

The majority of Republicans that I have met in my life vote this way primarily because they are fiscal conservatives. I have personally been on a mission lately to inform everyone I know (Liberals, Conservatives, Independents, Clueless) that the current Republican party is not fiscally conservative. Just look at the costs of their war - 3 trillion, $16,000 cost to each family, etc.

I agree wholeheartedly with this writer that Liberals need to get more pissed off and tell it like it is.

And one more thing I want to tell conservatives - don't question my patriotism because I am unhappy with the current state of our government and see massive room for improvement - or I will tear your fucking head off!!!!

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The eXile and its writers sure write a bunch of crap
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Posted by: logansafi on Mar 26, 2008 11:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dolan and the other writers over at the eXile website sure write a bunch of Reaganite Era crap. They are so stuck in the '80s, and their loud mouth commentary on Russia has grown stale and stupid by now. Not to mention the same stupidity in their expat commentary on US affairs, too. Yawn.

Democratic Party liberals are wimps, so what else is new? What insight you have, Dolan!

And how stupid of you to suggest that Carter should have been tough with ex-Shah Iran. Is that your version of liberalism then? Pretty damn sad. You and the other eXile cuties should go back to writing about Russian whores, of which you guys are the definite American authorities on.

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Mmmm! Hurting people GOOD!
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Posted by: woodbee on Mar 27, 2008 7:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The first rule of Liberal Club is: don't talk about Liberal Club.

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Carter tried to take back hostages by force,
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Posted by: Dextrophage on Mar 28, 2008 6:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it just didn't work because of a mess-up. I talked to a guy on that recovery mission, he said it was just sand getting into the choppers and they ran into each other over Iran. It could have happened to anyone as they say. Why does everyone forget that Jimmy Carter at least tried?

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Get mean to right wingers?
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Posted by: bfh369 on Mar 28, 2008 5:35 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First the author says right wingers are either millionaires or suckers - I say the right is either corporate right or grass roots right. The corporate right should be treated as mean as possible in my opinion, but the grass roots right are most often, not suckers, but people who believe the corporate media, they are uneducated, like children or old people or people from a different culture who are innocent and very often well meaning. Would you be mean to your kids who do not understand, to old people or people from another culture?

I suggest we try to understand the grass roots right and ally with them, because when the grass roots right and the grass roots left unite we'll win this fight.

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It's impossible for Repuglicunts to change
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Posted by: kevns007 on Mar 28, 2008 6:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Easier for an addict to quit sticking needles in his arms; easier for predator jackels and hyennas to eat berries instead of dead carcases; easier for coal miners to turn gay than for a repuglicunt to change his thinking.

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Kerry stood there like a punching bag...
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Posted by: vvvci on Mar 28, 2008 7:45 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is amazing how we Americans are living in a Through-the-Looking-Glass world, a surreal la-la land.
Is it possible, could it be possible, that ONE SENTENCE, one paragraph, could have delivered to John Kerry a SWEEPING, landslide victory and landed him in the Whtie House vs. Bush and Cheney in 2004?
answer: YES. In the 3rd presidential debate, the cocky George W. Bush sneered in to national TV cameras "MY OPPONENT IS A FLIP-FLOPPER!"
Kerry stood there like a punching bag, like a dazed and stunned boxer... like a fighter about to take a fall. All he had to do was pause for a moment for affect, purposely look in to TV cameras, and reply:
"Mr. Bush has A HELL OF A LOT OF NERVE calling ME a 'flip-flopper.' HE stood on the rubble of 9-11, and pledged to "Git Osama bin Laden Dead or Alive"... but not even 6 months later, Mr. Bush FLIP-FLOPPED on his pledge, telling us Americans (in his exact words) "I'm NOT THAT CONCERNED about bin Laden anymore."
My fellow Americans, this is all the more ludicrous, because Mr. Bush created an IMAGINARY link between bin Laden and Saddam as his MAIN EXCUSE to attack Iraq - a nation that had NOTHING TO DO with 9-11!
Mr. Bush IGNORED Al Qaida before the 9-11 attacks, even though their October 2000 attack on the USS Cole had gone UNPUNISHED.... Mr. Bush's second DERELICTION OF DUTY _allowed_ bin Laden to escape the trap he was caught in at Tora Bora, and now here it is the eve of election 2004, Mr. bush is BRAGGING that bin Laden SENDING VIDEOS from Afghanistan is proof that he, President Bush, IS DOING A GOOD JOB in the war against terror!"
That's it. ALL Kerry had to do was make video loops of Bush saying "I'm NOT THAT CONCERNED ABOUT... bin LADEN ANYMORE" and run them EVERYWHERE in American press and media ads...
"President Bush, the leader who IGNORED al Qaeda threat BEFORE 9-11, ALLOWED bin Laden to escape AFTER 9-11, and STILL proudly proclaims that he DOES NOT CARE where bin Laden is today, 3 years after the deadly terrorist attacks! CLEARLY, Mr. Bush is NOT FIT TO BE COMMANDER IN CHIEF."
IF Kerry had done that ONE simple mantra all through his campaign, he would have won a LANDSLIDE.
But kerry was smart: HE DID NOT WANT TO HAVE Bush's GREAT DISASTER, the FAILED Iraq war, on HIS (Kerry's) own hands for all of history. SO.. Kerry PULLED HIS PUNCHES, stood there like a punching bag, and TOOK A FALL for his fellow Skull & Bones brother... even though he had promised us Democratic voters and donors that he would "fight until the last vote was counted.
Ain't it amazing...? EVEN with Kerry PULLING HIS EVERY PUNCH, he STILL won the election! He hurried to CONCEDE election night, so a vote recount wouldn't hand him the hot potato (White House/Iraq war) that he in NO WAY intended to take!

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Using language effectively
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Posted by: Democritus on Mar 29, 2008 12:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
John Dolan has a point. We progressives can be more expressive in the language we use. I have some empirical evidence on this matter, having debated right-wingers in e-mails, blogs, and newspapers.

What I have found is, that if you are too polite, they will try to steamroll you. When you point out mistakes in their evidence, they ignore it. When you ask questions that will put them on the spot, they don't answer. When you question their sources, they feign outrage. What they do instead is call you a "fruitcake," an "elitist," and worse.

I think that bumper stickers don't go far enough. I think that the righties need a good verbal hiding. For instance, when retorting to a nagging little war-mongering pro-lifer (get the inconsistency?), I replied by saying that he had been described as being a "double dumbass," so dumb he didn't know how dumb he was. A little saracasm tends to shut them up, too. For instance, this same little jerk had the effrontery to say that he knew more about theology (from his catechism) than did a professor of theology at Notre Dame. I suggested that he apply for the position in the Notre Dame theology department that was then open.

Another brainless creationist was undaunted by my criticism that he had misunderstood the Second Law of Thermodynamics, claiming that he knew that he wasn't descended from ape-like ancestors. I replied that yes, I thought he was more likely descended from a rock.

When it comes to defending the Iraq invasion, even at this late date, I really try to zing them hard. Adjectives such as "thick-headed," and "brain-dead" are useful, and so are nouns such as "bozo" and "zombie." I try hard not to use obscenities, but sometimes I really have to resist the temptation.

One cretin had the gall to say that he knew what I looked like from my photo in the paper. I replied that, since I had his name, I could also find out where he lived. I haven't heard from him lately.

Dolan has these righties pegged. They talk a good game about how tough they are, but they're just full of braggadocio. When they try to phony up their qualifications on a subject,as they usually do on the subject of climate change, I might simply reply that they don't have the gravitas. In any case, whatever language you use, my advice is to choose your words carefully to achieve the utmost effect--and never let them have the last word. Always leave them with a little egg on their faces.

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» RE: Absolutely! Posted by: Mycos

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QUESTION
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Posted by: using on Mar 29, 2008 2:36 PM   
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SO...IF what you say is true -- If American males like a good fighting man -- then how come so many of them ran away from Edwards -- called him angry -- didn't throw their weight behind him and say "We're so mad -- and we are going to do something about it!" So -- where were you when he was running?????

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F'em all with a baseball bat
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Posted by: sfortuna on Mar 29, 2008 4:27 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a flaming pinko liberal, and I keep knuckle dragging cretins off my tail by SHOWING them I'm ready to kill and/or die for my values. Deep down, a conservative is motivated by FEAR of LOSING something, their wealth, their status, their life or health. Show them you're not. Buy a gun, learn to box, show them your contempt and challenge them for the manipulated suckers, or sociopathic kleptomaniacs they are.

I think we need a movement of people ready to fight and die to get this country back on the democratic track. Do you think Dick Cheney would hesitate a minute before burning a few million intellectuals if it were necessary to wage war and protect the profits of Exxon or Haliburton? I'm sure he dreams of funeral pyres
and the screams of 'his enemies'. If we are to survive and combat this level of evil, we must learn to speak the only language they understand.

If I am ever diagnosed with a fatal illness, I would take it as a patriotic duty to ammo up and walk into the Heritage Foundation or American Enterprise Institute or an Exxon board room meeting and take a few of the c0c#$uc#e%5 with me. Think how intimidating Bill O'Reilly would look with a couple black eyes and split lip. These people are KILLING our children, ruining our environment, stealing from the public trough, selling out economic security, torturing and murdering thousands for the profits of the few. To me, they are all guilty of treason to the ideals we were founded upon and would be much more useful as compost. Buy a gun....learn how to use it.....and don't take crap until their ideology is as discredited and defeated as Hitler's. Otherwise, it's all so much yadda yadda. Perhaps one day, when we are all living on the margins of society, enslaved by a tiny minority of 'Alphas', we will realize we have nothing to lose but our chains.

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be assertive not aggressive
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Posted by: whealeydj on Mar 30, 2008 6:31 AM   
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and name calling may feel good but counterprodcutive. Call McCain McCrazy but dont insult you local gun lover by suggesting he needs a weapon for to compensate for own inadequacies.Hopefully Obama and Clinton will fight back against bullying and lying and ads and use some of their own against Republicans.

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This is a particularly interesting thread since most of the Alternet users are right wingers
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Posted by: yellow on Mar 30, 2008 10:19 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anti-semitism is right wing and so is conspiracy mongering. Belief that the fed is a criminal conspiracy of international bankers is classic KKK/John Birch Society right wing crap. The left critique of the FED is that it has an anti-inflationary bias from the early Reagan/Volcker era which caused a very deep recession and which is why we have the neo-liberal free market economic policies we now have in place. I've explained this many times. Inflation has been explained by CEPR economist Dean Baker to be the consequence of both the Bush deficits and the weak dollar making consumer goods imports more expensive. Fractional Reserve Banking has nothing to do with inflation since we have had very low inflation with such a system and there really isn't any other kind of modern banking system in place. Just more crackernomics from people that don't understand that fractional reserve banking is the only reason the US economy provides the highest standard of living in the world and was able to create a middle class out of the Great Depression is one reason Alternet can be said to be dominated by right wing users. Every one knows that inflation is only now beginning to be problematic and that the real problem is slow GDP growth, a maldistribution of wealth that forces money into financial investment in the first place instead of the real economy and rising unemployment. We now have 80% industrial utilization capacity and rising unsold inventories and the crackernomics advocates want to pull more money out of the economy to cause a depression. How progressive this policy is for the working poor and middle class!! Funny we never hear of a crisis of overproduction in late capitalism from these so called progressives. We also never hear about redistributing wealth or taxing the upper 1% of the income tier.

The dumbest right wing nonsense we hear is that the Iraq War is not about oil but Israel. WIth crude oil prices suddenly jumping from about $36/barrel in March 2003 with the invasion of Iraq to over $60 per barrel by the end of that year then going to over $80 in the next few years and now staying above $100 now, I'd say the oil majors made out well. They have collectively gleaned over $100 billion annually in profit alone since 2005 after world crude prices really skyrocketed mostly due to the war and the commodity futures speculating it generated and have gotten lucreative production contracts in Iraq while keeping US/UK rivals out of Iraq such as China, Russia, France and Italy. These were the oil concerns shut out by the sanctions that when lifted, immediately shifted control of Iraqi oil to the US and UK. Keeping the oil wells the property of the Iraqi Oil Ministry helped insure this exclusive control. Israel hasn't benefited a bit. No the world isn't really run by da Jooooz after all.

Of course we have the black helicopters and the 9/11 steel cutter charges that brought down the twin towers but that nonsense has been debunked as well.

So long crackers. Have a good day!!

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Coulterizing liberals
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Posted by: GeorgiaBlue on Mar 30, 2008 12:20 PM   
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I totally agree with this article, but we liberals are loath to get down in the dirt like Coulter and crowd. Admittedly that is a fault, but apparently that is the only language the "suckers" can understand! Mike Malloy has been a hero of mine for many years until he was booted off the air in Atlanta by the powers that be at NBC, but he's still at it and minces no words. Ditto for Dave Letterman when he said on the air face to face with O'Reilly "most of the stuff you say on your show is pure crap". We need more of that, but we are spineless and expect the right-wingers to have a brain, which is a sad mistake.

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» RE: Coulterizing liberals Posted by: yellow
» RE: Coulterizing liberals Posted by: Democritus
» RE: Coulterizing liberals Posted by: yellow
» RE: ight-Wing Troll Alert!! Posted by: yellow
» Speaking of Ann Coulter Posted by: aussidawg

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Why should we be like them... why should we want to?
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Posted by: seacaptdon on Mar 30, 2008 1:12 PM   
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I cannot believe this "wanna be like them" stupidity.

Why should we become bullies and Rovians and condescend to their level? The reason I have chosen Obama is because he has been the one candidate who has tried to keep above the septic tank politics as usual.

If the Clintons want to win at all cost... even if they have to steal or cheat to win the election... and use the "same ole--same ole" politics then they should not be the nominee of the Democratic Party.

It is really time for a big change... what has the Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton ideology gotten us??? It is really way past time for a change...

Whis concept that we should descend into the sewer with the Rovian/Clintonian style of politics is nauseating and we need to take the high ground and win by integrity and character and offering more than what we have always had for the last almost 20 years.

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A little substantiation please?
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Posted by: Mike Turnauer, Vancouver,WA on Mar 30, 2008 5:54 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Dolan:

Your firmly held belief in getting down and dirty in the water cooler debates with Bushies must be based on your own successful personal experiences? Could you share with readers your personal anecdotes of how you made converts of righties by calling them suckers?

Thanx.

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Leftists in the Union Army?
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Posted by: Gary64 on Mar 31, 2008 3:13 AM   
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I'm a bit confused by the comment about leftists being the ones who defeated the confederacy. In the election of 1864, the Army overwhelmingly voted for Lincoln and the Republicans. They decidedly voted against "the peace at any cost" Democrats. I haven't read through all the comments, so maybe this has been addressed, but leftists in 1861 would have let the confederacy and slavery stand.

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RE: Are Alternet Readers Blind?
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Posted by: Longdream on Apr 2, 2008 8:13 PM   
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Do you even know what you're talking about?

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RE: Are Alternet Readers Blind?
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Posted by: VeryBlessed on Apr 7, 2008 7:33 PM   
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That’s been my impression also. There is a lot of hateful speech here, and it didn't just start with this article. And since that speech can’t be denied, it can only be “justified.” So it’s never been that such speech is objectively wrong, evidently, but that it’s only okay if you are the very few elite people who can “rightly” use it.

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I guess neoconservatives aren't the only neocons around. We now have plenty of NEOCONFEDERATES too!!
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Posted by: yellow on Apr 6, 2008 5:23 AM   
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The evidence is abundent. Just look at all those who erroneously call SPLC a "hate group."

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Brother Kicks Ass!
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Posted by: jom57 on Apr 13, 2008 8:05 PM   
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I love this article. It shows that we on the left no longer have to be kicked around. Ever since the re-election of Nixon, the word Liberal has been redefined into something negative-soft, weak, mushy-by our enemies. You don't let your enemies define who you are. We're a fightin' people, we will fight and WE WILL WIN!

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Alternet Comments:

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F-kin A
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Posted by: YogiBear on Mar 25, 2008 12:32 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just make sure you are right, otherwise you come off sounding like a dumbass.

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» RE: F-kin A Posted by: mmckinl
» NO LEADERS Posted by: rancespergl
» RE: F-kin A Posted by: rickiey
» RE: F-kin A Posted by: mmckinl
» RE: Hand over my heart and tears Posted by: boydranchitos
» WE are the leaders Posted by: deepseas
» RE: Leaders Posted by: sasquuatch55
» RE: F-kin A Posted by: dockboy
» did somebody say "get mean"????? Posted by: CulturalMutilation
» nonsense Posted by: realtruther
» RE: nonsense Posted by: Patriot46

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A class element
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Posted by: andabottleof_rum on Mar 25, 2008 12:35 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You have a point. There is a visceral contempt for the whining discursive style of liberals and their "moral high ground" strategies. Many people react with contempt because such an attitude reveals the person has never been in the military or worked a back-breaking job or fought with chronic economic instability.

Most liberals are middle class. They live and work among other middle class people in nice clean professions that often don't even seem like real work.

Working-class person: What do you do? Consulting? That's getting paid just to give your opinion?

I'll give you a piece of my mind about your job if you pay me for it.

I don't know if liberals have it in them to be down and dirty. That would transgress class lines and make them look like something they dearly don't want to be: low brow laborers. Also, after living cushy lives, I doubt they'd have it in them to be really cruel and even, if need be, violent. Notice war is a working-class thing and middle-class people do what they can to avoid the military.

Who was it killing those Brits and Confederates and Nazis in those glorious liberal victories? It was mostly the lower class, of course!

Who was it rioting in the 60s for racial justice? Poor blacks in ghettos!

Who were some of the most aggressive anti-war protesters? War veterans!

What did middle class liberals do in the 60s? They organized non-violent protests and some of the younger ones occasionally became violent when they realized there was a possibility they would be drafted.

Aggression and violence are lower-class male things. It would probably be useful in winning their support if liberals knew how to be aggressive and violent, but I am unsure if they have it in them.

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» Where's our Limbaugh? Posted by: kegbot1
» RE: Where's our Limbaugh? Posted by: toddcory
» RE: Where's our Limbaugh? Posted by: kegbot1
» His name is Bill Maher . . . Posted by: Scientz
» Joe Lyles . . . ? Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Mike Malloy Posted by: Techubus
» RE: Where's our Limbaugh? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Where's our Limbaugh? Posted by: kegbot1
» RE: Where's our Limbaugh? Posted by: Longdream
» Been up-country lately? Posted by: Itsthewater
» I'm There With You Posted by: pdxstudent
» Yes, we have it in us Posted by: deepseas
» RE: A class element Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
» RE: A class element Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
» RE: A class element Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» RE: A class element Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: A class element Posted by: Lauren
» Aggression and Violence ... Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Aggression and Violence ... Posted by: Intellect
» RE: A miliary element... Posted by: harryf200
» RE: A class element!?!?!??? Posted by: cbishopp
» RE: A class element!?!?!??? Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» RE: A class element Posted by: Hovey
» You mean like Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld... Posted by: trappedintwilightzone
» RE: You mean like Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld... Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» RE: A class element Posted by: Longdream
» Many Years Ago Posted by: jackyD
» RE: A class element Posted by: Suz
» RE: A class element Posted by: Longdream
» RE: A class element Posted by: ringo
» RE: A class element Posted by: trpeer
» RE: A class element Posted by: yetischmeti

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You Should Talk to Your Fellow Writers, Here and Elsewhere ...
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Posted by: mmckinl on Mar 25, 2008 12:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Or maybe that is what you are doing in a round about fashion.

I see a gaping hole in the anger that should be expressed by Liberal writers and politicians everywhere. Just look at what this shit hole Bush and a Republican Congress has done to this country over these last 7 years.

Look at our leaders in Congress, Reid and Pelosi. Pelosi takes Impeachment off the table before she even sees the evidence or hears the charges. Reid gets all puffed up one day then sucks up the next ... With leaders like this who's gonna pretend we're gonna stand up to anything ...

It just goes on and on with the whining and whimpering and when someone like Pete Stark stands up and gets mad he's immediately beaten up by his own cowardly party.

Almost all liberal radio hosts and TV personalities have no attitude whatsoever.

So you can talk about us liberals out here in the real world all you want, but from the weak at the knees writing we get and the cowardly leadership that whimpers from Washington, what the hell do you expect?

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» Good grief! Posted by: trappedintwilightzone
» RE: Good grief! Posted by: mmckinl

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Great strategy . . . if you are going after the 2-year-old vote
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Posted by: Rune on Mar 25, 2008 12:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do we really need more crap obscuring the very serious and daunting wrongs that the Republicans championed and the Democrats have continued? Partisan bickering is no more effective than the compromise (Obama) or sell-out (Clinton) being offered by the "opposition party's" leading candidates.

It would be much more useful and effective, I believe, for the Democrats to pull an entirely different page out of the GOP playbook. Tell the story of giving people back something they regard as wrongfully taken from them and let them dream of how they will make use of that "gift." In the case of the Republicans, the game is played by telling people they can have their tax money back to spend as they please (ignoring the services and devaluation of the currency that results from deficit spending). The GOP has set the table for a whopping round of giving people back their privacy, the security of their identities and private information, the right to be told the truth by a whole range of scientists working the public interest, the right to know what their government is doing on their behalf, and the right to have the government respect their wishes about, say, war or consumer protection even if it is not a presidential election year.

Offering to give those things back, and restoring a bit of America's dignity in the process, would make for a very attractive and compelling choice that people from all walks of life could dream about and long for. It could . . . if that was what the Democrats intended to do if Obama or Clinton got elected. But so far, neither has indicated they are committed to such clearcut reversals of Bush's policies and harmful laws he signed into being.

Instead, the Democrats make a big noise about what a bad boy Dubya has been, but they won't call for his impeachment (which the majority of citizens support) nor will they come right out and say they will undo the long list of unconstitutional policies he and privileges he has brought into play. They won't even promise to bring defense spending down to something comparable to the already high level it was at when Bush declared himself to be the untouchable commander in chief. (Soon, the Democrats will be handing Bush another $100+ billion blank check for more lawless warfare, BTW.)

That being the case, why, exactly, are we so determined to make fools of ourselves by trying to humiliate Republicans instead of demonstrating some wisdom and concrete ideas for ending one of the worst periods in U.S. history? Shouldn't Democrats be rather sheepish themselves for sticking by what has become the Republican-lite party?

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» One of the best damn posts... Posted by: trappedintwilightzone
» RE: I'm tired. Posted by: Longdream
» RE: American people (think again) Posted by: Itsthewater
» RE: American people (think again) Posted by: democracynowiniraq
» RE: American people (think again) Posted by: democracynowiniraq

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Silence Is Not An Option!
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Posted by: skizum on Mar 25, 2008 2:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In my personal experience I have found myself afraid to incite conflict for fear of retribution. At the same time, when I have had to confront bullies and people who are mean spirited, I have acted aggressively, engaged in conflict and earned respect. I have experienced on more than one occasion that when I engage in heated conflict I have earned respect but only in cases where I have spoken or acted from the moral higher ground. Alternatively, I have also found that by engaging people in rational debate with strong principal can be quite effective too.

In both cases, I have found it productive to always direct my points to attack my opponents ego. The whole dynamic seems to revolve around defending one's sense of self pride. I have earned respect by challenging another person's ego until the point where I have shown that I will not be steamrolled. It's all about finding a way around, over, under or through someone else's walls of rationalized self defense to earn respect. Once this point of tension has been reached, often a mutual respect of one's adversary can be achieved. People often become good friends in this way and sometimes bitter enemies.

In any case, we progressives need to continue to communicate our messages and challenge the very logic and premises that our aggressive opponents spew forth on a regular basis. In this regard, my contribution to the effort is focussed on providing progressives with a means to broadly disseminate their voices whether boldly and publicly or quietly and discreetly. Repetitive messaging works, it's the basis of advertising, learning and propaganda; let's use it effectively and with great frequency.

One thing is for sure; silence is not a viable option if you care about bringing America back from the brink of social implosion.

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» Well Said Posted by: kegbot1
» RE: Well Said Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Well Said! Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Well Said! Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Well Said! Posted by: Intellect
» RE: Silence Is Not An Option! Posted by: The Old Hippie

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What would Washington say?
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Posted by: Adler Berriman Seal on Mar 25, 2008 2:22 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have already intimated to you the danger of parties in the State, with particular reference to the founding of them on geographical discriminations. Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party generally.

This spirit, unfortunately, is inseparable from our nature, having its root in the strongest passions of the human mind. It exists under different shapes in all governments, more or less stifled, controlled, or repressed; but in those of the popular form it is seen in its greatest rankness and is truly their worst enemy....

It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part against another; foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which finds a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passion. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.

There is an opinion that parties in free countries are useful checks upon the administration of the government, and serve to keep alive the spirit of liberty. This within certain limits is probably true; and in governments of a monarchical cast patriotism may look with indulgence, if not with favor, upon the spirit of party. But in those of the popular character, in governments purely elective, it is a spirit not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose; and there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be by force of public opinion to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume.

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» Very interesting quote Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» It's Political Pro-wrestling Posted by: Adler Berriman Seal
» RE: Very interesting quote Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Very interesting quote Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» RE: Very interesting quote Posted by: Longdream

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at last
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Posted by: MobileSucks on Mar 25, 2008 2:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OK, I just read the first few lines of this. I'll check the rest out latter. But if you've been around working class people, whites and blacks, this 'get mean' idea rings so true you may find it hard to believe. You got to speak to people in their language, not yours. People aren't nice liberals even if they agree with liberal positions more often than not and don't know it cause they're propagandized and are delusional.

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» RE: at last Posted by: bukharajones
» Right the fuck on... Posted by: MobileSucks
» Wait a minute! Posted by: trappedintwilightzone

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While you're at it, buy a damn GUN.
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Posted by: willie.horton on Mar 25, 2008 3:40 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My political compass is -9.00, -7.95 -- just about as far to the left as you can go, and extremely libertarian -- and we're heavily armed. There is no contradiction here: the leftist revolutionaries who wrote our Constitution would have been writing it (in their own feces) on the wall of their prison cell if not for their guns.

"Gun control" is the first issue they use to make us look like wimps. And, we're wrong about it. They use it to make the "sucker Republicans" vote their way by calling our politicians "gun grabbers."

Learn to shoot.
Buy the most carnivorous guns on Earth: a 10mm Glock and a Saiga-12.
If you live in a "shall-issue" atate, get a concealed carry permit.
Join the NRA, and co-opt it from within.
Write your Democratic representatives, and tell them to STFU about worthless "gun control" laws (join the chorus: Howard Dean & the DNC are already screaming that at them).

It might save your life... and you might even enjoy it.

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» I'm not disagreeing, but Posted by: dover23
» What's your political compass? Posted by: deepseas

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big mouth leftie
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Posted by: LauraGRossHC@Hotmail.com on Mar 25, 2008 3:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh, that it would be so easy! Aside from suckers, there are those who truly believe in creationism, in the primacy of MAN, are sexist, recist, homophobic, etc. They are voting against any changes, anything they are afraid of since the republicans are so skilled at waging fear. We can talk some middle roaders out of their fear, get logical with some willing to listen who have just not paid much attention and get their information from mainstream media - or at least hook in their kids. But there are millions of people who feel a great need for control, whether they are leaders or followers. And they have plenty of names for people who fight against those who use the Bible as their excuse.
We need to continue to speak out, to use the label "liberal" proudly, and argue reality with anyone who will listen, and I fully agree Liberals need to grow some huevos and argue back, and incite the discussion on our own terms. But it isn't going to be easy on any level, and some won't be swayed by name-calling.

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» RE: big mouth leftie Posted by: Xynyx

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We are different
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Posted by: robchapman on Mar 25, 2008 4:04 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is a profound psychological difference between the left and right.

The left seeks cooperation and accomodation of divergent views.

The right seeks confrontation and conversion to certainty.

It is not worth engaging them if we become them.

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» RE: We are different Posted by: mejsmith
» RE: We are different Posted by: Tampa
» You are wrong on all counts. Posted by: Centavo
» Listen brunowe... Posted by: Centavo
» Listen centavo Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Listen centavo Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Yes, Brunowe Posted by: Longdream
» A waste of time Posted by: deepseas
» nada más por el testigo... Posted by: realtruther

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Forget that!
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Posted by: unitedstatesofstupidity on Mar 25, 2008 4:05 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
HEY HEY! HO HO! REPUBLICANS HAVE GOT TO GO! HEY HEY! HO HO!

Stick to what works guys!!!

Oh, what's that? That never works? Oh...

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» RE: Uh-uh--remember! Posted by: Longdream

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My bumpersticker
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Posted by: Tompatriot on Mar 25, 2008 4:23 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What would the founders do?

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» RE: My bumpersticker Posted by: mwinmag300
» RE: My bumpersticker Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: My bumpersticker Posted by: Lauren
» RE: My bumpersticker Posted by: buzzsaw
» RE: My bumpersticker Posted by: dockboy
» RE: My bumpersticker Posted by: willymack
» Yea, that includes me... Posted by: deepseas
» RE: Yeah, thanks. Posted by: Longdream
» RE: My bumpersticker Posted by: ohb0b
» RE: My bumpersticker Posted by: Longdream

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what would they be humiliated about?
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Posted by: Dboy on Mar 25, 2008 4:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The right-wingers are largely an anti-intellectual crowd. "W" attended both Harvard and Yale yet managed to remain completely uneducated (a respectable accomplishment among his supporters). They've been in office 8 years, started a few wars, appointed some nut-jobs to the supreme court, avoided impeachment, own their own cable TV "news" network, and have the support of most of the fly-over states. They got what they wanted: a president they could have a beer with. They didn't ask for a competent president, or a good president, or a moral president. They wanted a regular guy president and that's what they got. So what exactly do they have to feel humiliated about? Dumb won.

dboy

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» Exactly Posted by: messedup

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Mister van Driessen
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Mar 25, 2008 4:40 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The liberal side has definitely been dominated by snotty, latte-sipping, PC goody-goodies for a while now. Some will say that's just a myth perpetuated by talk radio, but I think it's more than that.

At the same time, I don't want to act like Republicans just to get a bunch of fat, beer-swilling truck dudes to like us. They might just be extra baggage--kind of like the PC crowd. If they bring enough beer for the rest of us, maybe we'll think about it.

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» i hate coffee Posted by: happyhermit
» RE: Mister van Driessen Posted by: ohb0b

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Absolutely Spot On Right, But
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Posted by: kegbot1 on Mar 25, 2008 5:05 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Finally, someone is telling it like it is. Two small quibbles - (1) I've found that even using this tactic some cons absolutely DO believe fervently in what they're hearing from Limbaugh, et. al. It's not mere reassurance - its a reinforcement of deep-seated racism, nationalism and sexism, et. al. and merely calling them a 'sucker' causes them to cling even more to these beliefs because they don't want to admit they're wrong. You have to get even uglier than this and I never hesitate to do so. Check it out (I'm Bad American in the comments):

http://tinyurl.com/2frgns

Joe is not going to abandon a carefully defended belief system not just because he probably believes it but because to ADMIT HE'S WRONG is anathema to most schoolyard cons. He's there to get his shots in on a politically neutral blog and so am I. We're not going to convert each other but the casual reader. I think Dolan needs to consider this.

Now (2) some liberals believe that if we have to speak and connect to the pick-up truck Jethros than perhaps the country isn't worth saving - let it crash and burn and maybe the collective pain will be a two by four across the ignorant snouts. These libs, like their well heeled con counterparts, believe they can insulate themselves from economic and social meltdown. Whether its futile or not, I find it too enjoyable NOT to confront, quite frankly, what I consider to be evil ideas and philosophies that threaten the country my kids are growing up in.

Other than those two points its refreshing to read Dolan encouraging the liberals to rediscover their street fighting origins.

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» Great post. nm Posted by: MobileSucks

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Classic Schoolyard Bullies.
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Posted by: KeepsonTickn on Mar 25, 2008 5:35 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I cringe every time a Republican congressman or Right-Wing commentator says "Democrat Party" and the Democrats don't call him on it. Don't they understand that he is expressing his disdain for them and will continue to do so until he is forcefully called on it EVERY time he does it. Until they begin fighting back, Republicans will continue in the refrain of wife-beaters everywhere: "I do it because she deserves it."

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» That doesn't work. It's been tried. Posted by: KeepsonTickn

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Ok yes I think I've got it like down
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Posted by: TonyGottlieb on Mar 25, 2008 5:49 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kind of like the most personally irresponsible deadbeat act of child abuse a person can perform is the infanticide of their own child disguised as a woman's constitutionally protected right to privacy?
Before you slip off the gloves you might want to check your flank.

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» RE: Ok yes I think I've got it like down Posted by: Chickensh*tEagle
» Oh, come on now... Posted by: Chickensh*tEagle
» RE: Oh, come on now... Posted by: Moira61
» RE: Oh, come on now... Posted by: carcinoid112

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Yeah! Bumper stickers are the answer! Genius!
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Posted by: kenkruger on Mar 25, 2008 6:03 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeah, great idea guys. Let's reduce our rhetoric to catchy slogans. Let's distill complex ideas and discussions into bumper stickers. Let's replace intellectual reason with emotional button-pushing. Let's work even harder to further divide the country into two insoluble tribes, and force everyone to choose a side between US and THEM, in the battle of good versus evil.

In short, let's jump in and imitate all the worst behavior of republicans.

Or...

Just an alternative idea...maybe we could take the high road. Call me a dreamer, but I believe it is quite possible to counter this group of born-again spoiled frat guy robber barons that have taken over the country without (a)sounding like whiny condescending douchebags, or (b) becoming hateful, slogan-chanting, poop-throwing monkeys.

Our own version of Rush Limbaugh? This is genius. I can't think of anything that could possibly go wrong with this. That's exactly what we need: another loud-mouthed cheerleader for the status quo (but this time, from OUR tribe), taking cheap potshots at the ENEMY without listening to anything they say (because they are the ENEMY, they can't possibly have anything to say worth listening to).

Think very carefully before going down this road, my friends. Personally, I think we can do better. But what do I know?

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» Definition of Insanity... Posted by: Centavo
» Ooh I know... Posted by: BenjamminH
» or how about... Posted by: realtruther

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Here's some better advice
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Posted by: dover23 on Mar 25, 2008 6:25 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Before reverting to name calling, maybe self-proclaimed lefties should carefully examine their own ideologies and try to figure out which ones are actually working against their own self interest. Start with the true believers in the 06 Congress "mandated' to change the situation in Iraq. The murdering is permitted to go on and on and on over there; do you really think they're not serving their masters on domestic policy?

You believe in socialism and you get socialism for millionaires. My comrades, who are the suckers?

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» RE: Please, someone humiliate me now! Posted by: andabottleof_rum

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We Should Remind Americans of Republican Sleaze & "Become Viral"
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Posted by: PeaceForUsAll on Mar 25, 2008 6:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree that we should, in a phrase, "take the gloves off" in dealing with Republicans.

I think we should remind Americans (who, in general have VERY short memories) of the long list of sleazy Republican scandals and messes in recent years.

Just as importantly, we should create text (example below) and then relinquish any copyright to it so that other like-minded people can help spread whichever parts of the message they agree with, without having to "reinvent the wheel". Then, copy and paste becomes quite useful. [My mantra, Ctrl-C Ctrl-V.]

Remember, we're fighting against Fox "news" among others who can spread their hateful tripe to millions every day. Our messages will only "get through" if they're repeated (at least) thousands of times per day on the internet.

To these ends, I present the following uncopyrighted material:

* John McBush is an Angry, Confused & Unstable REPUGnican: McAngryMcCrazyMcCain
* REPUG = Disappearing JOBS
* REPUG = High Food Prices
* REPUG = Gasoline at about $3.30 per gallon
= More WAR & saying “Water-Boarding Isn’t Torture”
= 900,000 homes in foreclosure RIGHT NOW!
= The party of Hate... Race- & Gender-Based Attacks
= Katrina, Tainted Pet Food, Lead in Toys. Where’s our Gov’t?
= Lies, Lies, Lies From Our Own Gov’t
= Airport Bathroom Sex
* NO COPYRIGHT. ALL/PART OF THIS DOCUMENT MAY BE COPIED & REPOSTED.

Finally, I believe three key words to "tag" McCain with are Angry, Confused & Unstable.

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rimchamp77
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Posted by: rimchamp77 on Mar 25, 2008 6:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, how did a draft dodging weasel win the "tough guy" vote in 2004??? It baffles me how this weasel easily besmirched two war heroes in his two battles for the white house. How does doing your duty in a less than heroic - or is it patriotic/chauvinistic - fashion at times make you less of a person than some weasel who avoids danger at all costs? How does the lack of actual combat experience become a plus for the "tough on foreign policy" [based totally on committing others to combat - and spend boatloads of taxpayer cash on weapons systems] crowd???

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» Same way... Posted by: JoshuaLudd

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From Whining To Temper Tantrum - dumb idea!
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Posted by: mwinmag300 on Mar 25, 2008 6:59 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't think getting "mean", is the way to go for liberals, leftists, whatever. It just comes across as a liberal's temper tantrum which invariably includes name calling and insults that have no place in a discussion of ideology. Like the stupid bumper sticker idea - come on! Better to take the high road and ply a conservative with undeniable facts they can repect, then you might change his or her mind.

By the way, there's no need to get snippy on this.

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Yes! Yes! Yes! (The Time is Right to Fight the Right!!!)
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Posted by: PeaceForUsAll on Mar 25, 2008 7:01 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After many years of trying to get elected with "nice guy" talk, it's time for those left-of-center to (temporarily) adopt a more direct, gloves-off approach. The time is right to try to split the Right Wing... those among their ranks HATE big spenders... we need to remind them that Reagan AND Bush are by far the biggest spenders ever, with most of that money going to wasted military efforts while our bridges are crumbling, etc.

If enough Republicans realize the extent to which they've been DUPED about taxes and spending, many Republicans could defect to the Libertarian party and "'We' can take the center".

Also, please see my other post (above) about reminding Americans about "Republican Sleaze and Becoming Viral".

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Stand up and fight America!! our democracy is under attack
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Posted by: yale on Mar 25, 2008 7:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its about time this issue is being addressed. We have gone past the point where peaceful protest will have any effect. Right wing fascism is kicking the shit out of our democracy as we stand idol, scratching our heads, wondering what we should do, and trying to come up some nonviolent way to combat it. No solutions on the horizon yet folks. Time to stand up and fight. All the doomsayers, and the lost hope wimps who write here on alternet need to get with the program. Their messages do nothing but, depress moral. They seem to be able to point out everything that is wrong, but offer few solutions to make corrections. We need to lose the wimp factor, and shove it right back to all the doomsayers and wake them up.

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