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A Heathen's Guide to the Rapture

How to navigate your way through born-again America, with tips on how to avoid being Left Behind.
January 17, 2008  |  
 
 
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This is an excerpt from Jim Gerard's book, Beam Me Up Jesus: A Heathen's Guide to the Rapture.

Pretend you're a Hollywood studio exec and you have a pitch meeting with a writer. He comes in and says: "O.K., let me start with a little back story. It's the twenty-first century, but still millions and millions of people believe in this invisible super-ghost who lives somewhere way, way up in space, see, and he created the entire universe and saw everything and knew everything that had ever happened or will happen -- like a super giant security camera in the sky. The people who believe in him think of him as a magic helper who protects and watches over them. It's as if Santa Claus worked for the NSA -- He sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake and engaged in suspected terrorist activities, etc.

"Yet, even though this ghost has, like, all the super powers of all the superheroes rolled into one, plus other powers that no superhero has even conceived of, and he has hundreds of millions of followers, he is so insecure and possessive that he demands everyone on Earth follow him or else he condemns them to an eternity burning in a nonstop forty-hundred-alarm fire, boiling in lava-like shit and battery acid and other really fiery stuff and being constantly stabbed by devils with pitchforks. Also, two thousand years ago, he sent his only son back to Earth to redeem humanity from their wickedness by getting hung on a Cross and, you know, the whole Mel Gibson treatment.

"Now, here's where the story takes off: After two thousand years watching humanity slaughter each other and get really shit-faced and have wild orgies and just, like, slack off, except for a few people that invented stuff or tried to urge people to follow the super-ghost, the son plans to return to Earth from outer space. But before he does, he's going to beam up to heaven all those people who believed in him, levitate them right out of their clothes, wherever they are -- on an airplane, asleep, on the toilet, in the f-ing grave!

"Yeah, corpses and cadavers and ghouls blasting out of the ground! It's Saw Meets Night of the Living Dead with a touch of Superman. I mean, throngs of people filling the sky like locusts -- it's an air traffic controller's nightmare!

"Meanwhile, the people left behind are just freaking out -- I mean, imagine you're on this airplane going to France and suddenly the pilot just disappears! Whoa! Then you look outside and you see like hundreds of naked people whooshing up past you -- I mean, we'll make most of them really bodacious babes, and then throw in an old dude going 'Whoaaaa!' for laughs. And the plane just nosedives. Boom! Planes are crashing -- trains, boats, computers -- it's complete chaos. We see another plane and the pilot suddenly sees all these naked flying people coming right at him and he has to swerve to avoid them and plow! Right into the side of a mountain!

"Cut to a scene where this Mafia wiseguy is about to hit this guy when the guy just flies up into the sky, and the wiseguy is like 'Maron! What the hell?' and he crosses himself. Huge laugh. And families are broken up and companies have to close because, like the entire sales department just took off ... right through the AC vent!

"Anyway, nobody knows what the hell's going on! We show the news reports and CNN's blaming it on the Muslims and Fox News is blaming it on the liberals. We cut to the White House and the President is chewing out his Cabinet because, like, 'Is this some secret Pentagon weapon? Why wasn't I informed?' Cut to close-up of this pious secretary, and she says, 'Sir, it's the Rapture.' And then the President is like, 'What are we going to do about it?' and some other Cabinet guy goes, 'There's nothing we can do.' And as the Secret Service sweeps the President away to an undisclosed location, where they fill him in on what the Rapture is.

"Then we cut to our hero, Bradley Dunn. He's a physicist and his wife used to believe in the super-ghost but kind of gave it up as a concession to Bradley when they got married because if it got out that she worshipped the super-ghost, Bradley's egghead friends would mock him and he would never get to work on the new super particle-accelerator that's his big dream. Now she confronts him and like a typical chick says I told you so. And she fills him in on what they're in for, and that by being such a man of science/unbeliever, he's jeopardized both of them, plus their precocious eight-year-old super-nerd son Lared -- it's a combination of Jared and Larry. Never mind. But when they go into Lared's room, they find just his clothes and realize he's been Raptured, and Bradley goes to his wife, 'You were teaching him all this time about the super-ghost?' And she's like, 'Yeah,' and they both realize they've lost their son and they're happy for him but sad and scared for themselves, and it's a big heavy drama moment where he asks her why she hasn't been Raptured and suddenly she vanishes and the audience is, like, 'Was she really there and then disappeared or was he talking to her in, like, his imagination?'

"And that is only the first 20 minutes. In the rest of the movie, the people left behind on Earth are going to suffer a seven-year nightmare of wars, plagues, attacks from supernatural creatures, asteroid collisions, and rivers of blood ..."

Would a Hollywood studio buy that pitch? Well, maybe it would, if it was the same studio that bought Deuce Bigalow: European Gigolo. But most studios would've probably called security and given the writer the bum's rush before he'd even gotten to page two. Still, as many as a hundred million Americans believe in this story, which is known as the Rapture, a boffo scene they've extracted from the Book of Revelations, the last book of the Bible. The crazy, hallucinogenic, paranoid part. The part with the Apocalypse and its Four Horsemen, the Whore of Babylon, a seven-headed dragon, and a panoply of fantastical creatures and cataclysmic calamities straight out of Lord of the Rings. Call it Gonzo Scripture.

But my book Beam Me Up, Jesus isn't for believers of the Rapture. It's for you. You know who you are. Doubter. Unbeliever. Heathen. Satanist. French-kissing liberal democrat. AlterNet reader. (If you're a Christian and have never heard about the Rapture, well, shame on you, you didn't read the Bible all the way to the end.) If you're curious to find out what a hundred million people find so compelling about the Rapture, the nightmare that follows it called the Tribulation and what the evangelists call "the End Times," the book will do the trick.

If you're a secular humanist who believes in reason rather than magic fixers, this book will provide that warm feeling of smug superiority. If you're a fence-sitter who likes to cover all his bases, or even a closet Christian, this book will give you some practical tips on how to survive the Rapture ... in the unlikely event that it happens and you're Left Behind. And if that happens, well, good luck to you.
Jim Gerard is the author of Beam Me Up Jesus: A Heathen's Guide to the Rapture.
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A Little Over The Top
Posted by: NoPCZone on Jan 17, 2008 12:23 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are many Christians who hold to the Biblical promise of Christ's return who are not right-wing lunatics trying to speed the demise of humanity. The reasons for this are many, but the same teachings tell followers that no human knows the time this will occur. They are instructed to just keep on living peaceful lives or grace, mercy and peace.

When those who choose not t accept this teaching, or that of any other faith, mock and ridicule that which others hold dear, they hurt themselves and any cause that they seek to advance. The Christian teachings of forgiveness; loving those who are poor, oppressed and repressed; stewardship: fellowship with all in peace; etc are points of common ground between countless Christians and others. Insulting their faith is intolerant, unwise, personally hurtful and harmful to advancing many common goals.

Christians have been heavily involved with ending slavery, child labor, the civil rights movement and many other areas of progressive interest. Not all- but many and in very important numbers.

A little sensitivity is in order. You don't gain allies by insulting them.

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Luther thought the Book of Revelations was written by a lunatic
Posted by: Sociallibertarian on Jan 17, 2008 12:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was raised to be a Lutheran and attended Sunday school until I was 15, extremely unusual when I was young in Sweden. I became an atheist on my 16 birthday.

However I remembered from Sunday school that Luther, the father of protestantism, considered the Book of Revelations written by a lunatic and therefore should not be considered. He also disregarded the Book of James, the one with all the rules you should follow to be a good Christian.

It si ironic that the two Books that Born Again Christians adhere to is the Book of Revelation and James the two Books Luther thought to be crap.

Luther said that you only had to believe in Jesus and you would be saved. You did not have to abstain or virutllay live like a monk. He advocated working hard and playing hard. As he himself did.

I can accept that people believe but I cannot accept that believers wants to force me to believe, not only that want to legislate that I have to follow the Book of James or follow Sharia Laws.

Maybe I will read this but I recommend you to read founder of Sceptic Magazine Michael Shermer's works:

1. "How We Believe", Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God

2. "Why People Believe Weird Things" Pseudoscience, superstitions, and other confusions of our time

The good thing however is that the reign of the Religious Right is over, they have not achieved anything nor has any president given them anything that has been promised. They were disappointed with Jimmy Carter, whom they got elected. They were equally disappointed with Reagan and both the Bushes.

The new Republican candidates are only doing lip service.

I think it is time for social libertarians to not demonize the Christian right , it only makes them stronger, but to advocate their own version of secular society. Nobody likes a whiner.

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» I WOULD WANT HER FIRED!! Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: Luther and Paul Posted by: vasumurti

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Great plug for his book
Posted by: Lector on Jan 17, 2008 1:38 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a humorous piece which any person well-grounded in their religion should be able to ignore. Those who complain about being targeted are uncertain about their faith to begin with and forget the endless witch-hunts their side have perpetrated throughout history on non-believers and that atheists today are sick and tired of it and aren’t going to put up with it anymore ergo the renewed backlash we see today in books like The End of Religion. I agree that the Christian Right, the faith-heads, anyone who believes in any sort of sky-god should not be demonized. They need help, like all of us in this vale of tears, but on the other hand no one should be subjected to a religion where proselytes preach a book that states all humans are born guilty, born sick, commanded to be well and in return they get a universe designed for them to live eternally in which in turn gives some the excuse everything is permitted when it's backed by God, including fantastic re-interpretations of the Book of Revelations. Which gives Thill the right to write a book of this sort.

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» RE: Great plug for his book Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive

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Tired of the the hypocrisy.
Posted by: Obijuan on Jan 17, 2008 2:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was courted by a born-again for a couple years. I saw deeply into this abyss. It's a scary dilusion where folks follow some twisted version of Christ's teachings. As a non-practicing Catholic, I ended up leaving the situation due to the incompatablity of my Christ with theirs.

Coming to Christ is a personal thing. Praying is a personal thing. Christ instructed us to pray in private and to let our actions speak for our faith. Born again Christians do exactly the opposite. It is instead a way to justify all that they have...problems and unbelieveably also prosperity. The number of uber rich born agains is scary, and speaks volumes to how twisted they have made Christ's original doctrine of peace, fellowship, and love. I have heard many time about the 'doctrine of prosperity' and that wealth is a gift from God. Isn''t there also something about a rich man and the eye of a needle? How big of a house would Christ have? How many cars? It always seemed to me they were great at applying Christ's teaching to others...and terrible at looking at themselves.

Need I mention the leaders of these mega churches at all? Sad.

Understand, I believe that whether or not Christ was every really a dude walking around is irrelevant (as is whether he was the son of God literally), the teachings attributed to him are sound. How they are used and manipulated in today's America is terrifying.

By the way, anyone with a true belief in Christ can see the George W. is NOT a believer. None of them are. And you should also feel in your heart that any violence (like that in Iraq) is totally anti-Christian. Our support of Saudi Arabia is anti Christian. Our use of fractional reserve banking and all the evil associated with it is also technically against the teaching of Christ (remember the temple money changers). But you support Bush blindly despite all the outward signs he doesn't believe.

But what a brilliant and simple way to hide evil...behind the name of Christ. And if you feel this in your heart but do nothing...more shame on you.

obi

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» RE: Tired of the the hypocrisy. Posted by: dannrusso
» RE: Tired of the the hypocrisy. Posted by: VeryBlessed
» RE: Tired of the the hypocrisy. Posted by: VeryBlessed
» RE: Tired of the the hypocrisy. Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive

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The rapture? Bring it on, and don't forget to take Mike Huckabee!
Posted by: Intihuatana on Jan 17, 2008 4:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not a Christian, but I can tell you that nothing would thrill me more than the rapture actually happening. Maybe then, after all of the zealous born again Christians, evangelicals, and social conservatives finally float away, those of us left can construct ourselves a society based on reason and personal choice.

Would those of us left behind in the Rapture because we're not evangelical Christians be upset by our continued presence on Earth? I think I can honestly say that I would feel privileged to remain here as one of the new standard bearers of a society that we would certainly rearrange to allow much greater freedom of expression and protection of our civil liberties. And since so many war mongers in the Christian faith claim to be born agains and evangelicals, there would certainly be a precipitous drop in the amount of people worldwide who become casualties and targets of those who claim to represent Christ.

Deep down, I know that Christianity is a much different and more accepting religion than how it's portrayed today. And I've never believed that the true teachings of Jesus would even remotely resemble what the GOP would have us believe. It's hard to imagine supply side Jesus cutting taxes for the rich, and breathing down a detainee's neck at Guantanamo, waterboard in hand.

But if the rapture will only include those of us faithful to the evangelical/born again movements, I say "Bon Voyage, Enjoy your trip, and Don't forget to take Mike Huckabee with you, no matter what he may have done as governor of Arkansas." As for me, I'm staying here, and helping to rebuild a society in which we don't fry people on death row, demonize a medically beneficial plant, and send our young people into mindless killing fields to profit corporate fatcats in the name of freedom.

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» Amen to that! Posted by: jim_altman
» Rapture? Surprise! Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: apture? Surprise! Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN

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A better wake up than a cup of coffee and a bagel!
Posted by: fibrowitch on Jan 17, 2008 4:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not only did the title make me, a person who loves Star Trek, and knows Gene Roddenberry was referred to as the 'Great Bird of the Galaxy' laugh. It gave me an image of Jesus standing at the controls of the Enterprise transporter bay.

Since I don't believe; I have the pleasure of seeing this article as a way to snicker at a group I think of as backwards. It will do nothing to prevent the current problem in this country, and throughout the world where people looking for simple religious solutions to the fast moving world. Will continue to wrest control of this country, as they have done so in the Middle East. Then I expect those of us who found this article funny will be wanting the world to stop so WE can get off.

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They're Already Made: I've seen two of them (1978, 1980)
Posted by: terradea42 on Jan 17, 2008 5:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a former "born-again" from Indiana, I was subjected to all kinds of propaganda film about the rapture. Image of the Beast and A Distant Thunder were two such films. One showed a woman, too educated to believe, being left behind after the rapture, and what she had to do to survive, like draw fake government barcodes (the "image" of the beast) on her hand in order to buy batteries to keep ahead of the government goons out to arrest "terrorists" who refused the mark. It also depicted a Methodist minister crying in the church, wondering what he did wrong since he and the rest of his flock were left behind. Enough to scare the sense out of anyone lacking in a foundation of education and reason. The current mess has been a long time coming, folks. We really need to nip this nonsense in the bud before it destroys us.

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'So bad it wouldn't sell as a movie idea'?
Posted by: Chickensh*tEagle on Jan 17, 2008 5:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That shows what you know! Someone did make a movie of it. So there! :-)

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» I'm glad someone pointed this out! Posted by: FriendlyFeminist
» RE: I'm glad someone pointed this out! Posted by: Chickensh*tEagle
» RE: 'So bad it wouldn't sell as a movie idea'? Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive

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Has this guy not even heard of the movie?
Posted by: izzyK on Jan 17, 2008 6:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There already is a terrible multi-volumed Left Behind movie, it has the guy from growing pains in the lead role, It's atrocious, but the fact that there already is such an atrocious film really does take away from the writer's little thought experiment.

It as though he says : "wouldn't it be really weird if this was a movie storyline? Because lot's of people believe it will happen" The second part is unfortunately true, but its not weird because it already IS an awful, overwrought, conspiracy theory filled, and even anti-semitic Movie (with sequels no less), that, as a video clerk in Texas I had to direct people towards about ten times a day. Not that i don't agree with the writer on this article, but the knowledge disconnect between the morass of the bible belt and the (relatively) enlightened coastal areas continues to astonish me.

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please progress Alternet
Posted by: wawa on Jan 17, 2008 6:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To continue to spill cyber ink about the heretical 'Christian' right and ignore the progressive intelligent Christian left is a disservice to your readers.

The rapturist's are fundamentalists who have LEFT BEHIND the gospel Christ preached.

They adhere to a 200 year old mis-interpretation and mis-reading of disparate scriptures that they have weaved together to support their fear based doctrine.


The cult of 'Christian' Zionism is what the concept of Anti-Christ is all about.

This heretical theology of Premellenial Dispensation worships a god of Armageddon and not the God of love, forgiveness and compassion that Jesus/AKA The Prince of Peace taught.

These fear filled people are the epitome of what the majority of theologians have always understood to be what the term anti-christ is really all about.

Anti-what Christ taught which is one must forgive to be forgiven, love and do good towards ones enemies NOT bomb, torture or occupy any.






Many evangelicals interpreted the establishment of Israel to be the fulfillment of -how they understood and interpreted- certain prophetic scriptures.

They interpreted the Israeli victory in the 1967 War and the capture of Jerusalem, the West Bank, Gaza, Sinai and the Golan Heights to be an act of God and not because of Israeli superior military might.

The theology of the fictional Left Behind series, is the epitome of the spirit of the anti-christ:
fear of the other that drives one to violence.

THE PHILOSOPHY AND MORALS of JESUS of NAZARETH, as penned by Thomas Jefferson illuminate just how far these cultist Christians have strayed from the message Christ delivered and modeled with his life.

According to Christ, to be his follower, one must be just: for justice comes from virtue which comes from the heart.

And that one is to treat ALL people the way one wants to be treated and not to judge the non-believer.

Christ taught that the only way to resist evil is with good and modeled that one must always work for PEACEFUL resolutions, even to the point of returning violence with compassion and forgiveness, as Jesus did when nailed to a cross for he prayed:

"Father forgive them, they do not know what they are doing."

Eileen Fleming,
Reporter and Editor WAWA:
http://www.wearewideawake.org/
Author "Keep Hope Alive" and "Memoirs of a Nice Irish American 'Girl's' Life in Occupied Territory"
Producer "30 Minutes With Vanunu"

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» Honest Question Posted by: Balanz
» RE: please progress Alternet Posted by: LeeAnnG

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ROFLMFAO!
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Jan 17, 2008 6:45 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ROFLMFAO!

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» RE: OFLMFAO! Say what??? Posted by: fsuthai
» RE: OFLMFAO! Say what??? Posted by: Chickensh*tEagle
» RE: OFLMFAO! Say what??? Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: OFLMFAO! Say what??? Posted by: Cooltruth
» Lurk Moar N00b. Posted by: abbadon2007
» RE: OFLMFAO! and then... Posted by: gazooks

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In case of the Rapture, can I have Your Car?
Posted by: Frank J. on Jan 17, 2008 7:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In some areas Rapture Christians have bumper stickers that say "In Case of the Rapture, this Car will be Unmanned." One of my friends wanted to put out bumper stickers that said, "In case of the Rapture, can I have your car?"
We're both Christians but can laugh about it. I think this book looks very funny and I'll probably read it.
I just don't see the God I believe in doing anything big and flashy like the rapture. I've been a farmer my whole life and God's involvement in nature is subtle and profound.
I don't know what the afterlife looks like or if there will be any kind of "end of times" but I believe we need to focus on fixing the problems in our world now.
"The Lord moves in mysterious ways
and tonight, my son ... He's gonna use your car"
--Terry Allen, from Gimme a Ride to Heaven Boy

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Religious tolerance
Posted by: LeeAnnG on Jan 17, 2008 7:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I was growing up, my parents were atheists, but my grandparents took my sister, my brother, and me to an evangelical church every Sunday for years. When my brother refused to go, he was penalized by my grandparents with fewer gifts and less attention than my sister and I got. Interesting that my non-religious parents did not penalize or even ridicule me or my sister for going to church.

From the time I was about 8 until I was 14, I did my best to believe. I was "saved" on many occasions but was consistently disappointed by my own lack of true conviction. I always expected to find some inner peace or thrill or revelation (as described in all the religious stories given to me in Sunday school). It never happened, but I kept trying over and over until I finally gave up.

When I was 15, my parents joined the Unitarian Church because their social and political beliefs coincided with that of the congregation and minister. Although eventually most of my family stopped attending, it had been a completely positive experience. My parents' tolerance of their children's various religious journeys left me with a respect for others. I didn't quite understand the lure of religious dogma and, having attempted to immerse myself in it with little success, couldn't connect to it, but I wasn't threatened either.

I have family and friends who are Mormons, Catholics, Pentacostals, a variety of moderate Protestants, and even Muslims. I also have friends who are adamant Atheists. For many years, I really thought I should not only tolerate, but respect all of these beliefs.

However, as I get older, I find more and more that I'm actually offended by much of it. I respect the right to believe anything at all, but I can't admire the dogma of what I consider to be mythology. I would never attempt to "enlighten" anyone or impose my lack of belief either. But I no longer think I should listen to what I believe is religious nonsense without expressing that opinion.

It all seems so ridiculous to me. The hypocrisy, the contradictions, the cherry-picking from the really absurd assertions in the Bible, the twisting of words and notions to justify all kinds of horrid beliefs and actions, and - especially - the nasty, exclusionary belief that a "loving" god would be such a thought police he (always a male deity, of course) would condemn the non-believer to an eternity of pain and suffering. Wow! How much uglier can you get than that?

There are very different attitudes in our society concerning expressing beliefs and lack of beliefs. For example, during lunch one day, a coworker asked me why I don't believe. I tried to explain without being derogatory about her Christian faith that I think it's all mythology and no more believable than the Greek or Roman gods. Her response was "well, maybe someday you will come to believe." I said that would never happen and she said, "Never say 'never'."

Now I could have said "maybe someday you will see the light and become rational." But that would be considered rude. And, of course my friend would surely say "never" to that idea.

Throughout my lifetime, it has been my experience that religious liberals and agnostics are the most tolerant. Even my dad, who was an atheist, had no problem with my going to church or ever tried to relieve anyone of his or her beliefs. At the same time, I have found that the most intolerant and judgemental are those with the most ardent beliefs.

Partly because the theocratic atmosphere in America has become so frightening and partly because I am just so sick and tired of the pervasive religious pushiness, my attitude has become that of a "militant" agnostic: "I don't know and you don't either." I let people alone unless they try to impose their beliefs on me, and then I really do tell them what I think. Finally.

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» RE: eligious tolerance Posted by: aonghus36
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Yawn
Posted by: Philip Newton on Jan 17, 2008 7:39 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A not-very-entertaining article about boring funda-mentalists who get it wrong.

Nowhere in the Bible is a rapture told.

Only in comfy American churches did this contagion incubate, where a painless and arrogant doctrine of Christian immunity from divine wrath is spun.

Goes right along with the "Prosperity Gospel" of (hopefully soon-to-be-defrocked) "Name it and claim it" pastors.

The shame...

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You lost me at this one part
Posted by: war_on_tara on Jan 17, 2008 8:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sir, it's the Rapture.' And then the President is like, 'What are we going to do about it?' and some other Cabinet guy goes, 'There's nothing we can do.' And as the Secret Service sweeps the President away to an undisclosed location, where they fill him in on what the Rapture is.

We all know the current President knows what the Rapture is! That's one of our many problems as a country - we already have a President who believes this stuff quite literally.

Presumably W has already made preparations for the Rapture trip, including the inevitability of having to leave Cheney behind!

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Bring it on!!
Posted by: amphead on Jan 17, 2008 8:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You mean all these right wing evangelicals disappearing from the face of the earth at the same time? Can't wait! And good riddance!! But with all those blood thirsty murderers gone who is going to cause all the violence and death that is supposed to be "left behind"? Oh, I guess it'll be outsourced!?

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» RE: Bring it on!! Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN

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No Child "Left Behind"
Posted by: factbased on Jan 17, 2008 8:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone else think NCLB was named to appeal to the rapture fetishists?

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» RE: No Child "Left Behind" Posted by: lgough

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The whole SALES staff swept up the first day?!?!?
Posted by: Bic Pentameter on Jan 17, 2008 8:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you took all of the lying out of salesmanship you'd get [insert punch line]

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» [Punchline] Posted by: SavageDissension
» RE: [Punchline] Posted by: UnEasyOne

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What if they are right?
Posted by: edraven on Jan 17, 2008 9:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We should begin by not letting those who believe in the Rapture to be employed as pilots, drivers, doctors, or in any other profession where their disapearance could cause trouble for the majority left behind.

It's not too late to protect ourselves.

Ed Graham

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» Brilliant idea! Posted by: SavageDissension

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Yes, anything can be parodied.
Posted by: Sojourner on Jan 17, 2008 9:47 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, whatever is the subject proves its worth by remaining better than the parody.

"Blazzing Saddles" was a hit because it was a parody of melodramas based on frontier themes, horse operas. They deserve to be parodied.

Maybe there are some who have not outgrown the Sunday School explanations of religion. If so, they also deserve to be parodied.

In the case of this article, it is the parody that deserves a parody. The hero is this snotty little kid who runs through cemeteries knocking over monuments in order to feel strong.

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"Christians" who believe in the "State of Israel's" moral imperative to exist
Posted by: Prairie Waif on Jan 17, 2008 9:59 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone who knows the history of Zionism and its founder, Theodor Herzlwho is the FOUNDER OF THE ZIONIST MOVEMENT.

In 1894, after covering the Dreufus Trial in Paris and was concerned by the anti-Jewish tone the trial had given/promoted.
Reference: Chambers Dictionary of World History
In 1895, he published Der Judenstaat ('The Jewish State') arguing that the Jews should have their own state where Jews could go to live from the parts of the world where they experienced rejection or persecution. In 1897, he established the World Zionist League to find a homeland for the Jews.

Reference: Wikipedia with back-up by Chambers
In 1902–03 Herzl was invited to give evidence before the British Royal Commission on Alien Immigration. The appearance brought him into close contact with members of the British government, particularly with Joseph Chamberlain, then secretary of state for the colonies, through whom he negotiated with the Egyptian government for a charter for the settlement of the Jews in Al 'Arish, in the Sinai Peninsula, adjoining southern Palestine.

On the failure of that scheme, which took him to Cairo, he received, through L. J. Greenberg, an offer (Aug., 1903) on the part of the British government to facilitate a large Jewish settlement, with autonomous government and under British suzerainty, in British East Africa. At the same time, the Zionist movement being threatened by the Russian government, he visited St. Petersburg and was received by Sergei Witte, then finance minister, and Viacheslav Plehve, minister of the interior, the latter of whom placed on record the attitude of his government toward the Zionist movement. On that occasion Herzl submitted proposals for the amelioration of the Jewish position in Russia. He published the Russian statement, and brought the British offer, commonly known as the "Uganda Project," before the Sixth Zionist Congress (Basel, August 1903), carrying the majority (295:178, 98 abstentions) with him on the question of investigating this offer, after the Russian delegation stormed out.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From the initial founding of Zionism, I find it laughable that they now ASSERT their RIGHT to have taken the land from the Palestinians because they were it's rightful owners. Gee, didn't they vote to live in UGANDA? They wanted a place to have a STATE where they would be free of persecution and rejection. Wow! Maybe if they had had better transportation, they would have decided on Florida or Costa Rica, who knows?

So, for these Rapture Oriented/Israeli Supportive "Christians (the Rapture won't happen until the Jews are happy in a their "homeland" according to the Left Behind "Christians."

The promotion of rejection and persecution of Jews throughout Europe caused them to STEAL the lands and homes of the rightful owners, some of whom still have the deeds to the homes now occupied by Jewish residents,but, I guess that is Okey Dokey because Theodor Herzl and his World Zionist Congress have THEIR Homeland.

QUESTION: Who did you STEAL it from?

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» no rightful owners Posted by: jwg

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Heh
Posted by: izzyK on Jan 17, 2008 10:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I won't deny they can be funny with the right audience, but you and i know it's because they're that bad. In that vein though, i would also recommend "7 Signs of Christ's Return" and "The Book of Mormon Movie" for Christian Science Theatre 3000.

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» RE: Heh Posted by: factbased
» RE: Heh Posted by: Longdream

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a spiritual interpretation of rapture
Posted by: alturn on Jan 17, 2008 11:47 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What this article brings to light is how little thought is taken in America to the concept of Spiritual evolution. Rarely are spriritual concepts discussed from a spiritual, versus a mental or literal level.

The concept of rapture is similar to that of kriyas in Eastern traditions. Raptures on a personal level occur during spiritual ritual when, due to intense focus and discipline, higher spriritual vibrations enter the subtle and physical bodies. These higher vibrations cause shakings of the body as old, outworn, and lower vibratory patterns resist energies that have not been experienced before. Relaxing into these higher energies cause the raptures to cease.

A similar phenomenon occurs when new thoughts are presented to the mind. The first time a new concept is presented to society, such as global warming, there is a violent reaction, or rapture, against it. As the idea is repeated, the mind starts to consider it and acclimate to it. As the new idea is accepted, the shakings die down.

Astrologically, there is a movement from Pisces to Aquarius which Ancient Wisdom Teachings indicate has a different energy, which is more potent than that in Pisces. Those most obsessed with the concept of the rapture are those clinging to the energies of Pisces (which is said to have motivated devotion, idealism and individuality) and find fear in the energies of Aquarius (which is said to stimulate the realization of interdependence, wholeness thinking and synthesis - which technically is the science of sustainable development).

From that standpoint, those open to new ideas and technologies are already absorbing the new energies without resistance, and rapture would be less an issue since they are open to and are already helping create the new. Society as a whole, however, is filled with those who believe a world based in sharing, justice and cooperation is something that could not happen on this heavenly body, earth. That resistance within America will likely cause spiritual rapture in society (outpictured as economic hardship in particular) as new ways of living together based in spiritual principles are rejected by many.

Hence fundamentalists literalize the rapture, which if it physically manifests, likely will not be seen for what it is.

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Sarah Ruth
Posted by: SARAH RUTH on Jan 17, 2008 1:12 PM   
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Whatever it takes to bring on the RAPTURE,,,, I am all for it. Then these programmed nincompoops can all go to their 'heaven' and those of us LEFT BEHIND can return to peace and the garden of Eden.

Proud to be LEFT BEHIND in a wonderful world without religion.

Sarah Ruth

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» RE: Sarah Ruth Posted by: EJ

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justice and peace
Posted by: dragonmagic on Jan 17, 2008 3:49 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dear Readers,

Jesus taught a heaven that could be reached here on earth. He taught a Non-violent form or resistance to oppressive forms of government. It is my sincere belief that Jesus' intention was NOT to start a world religion. He spoke to people for all time. Primarily though, He spoke for the people of HIS time. At no time has humanity ever been without an enlightened one. There are many amongst us today.

Sacrifice was never part of the worship of the Goddess. She did NOT demand a blood offering. That JEsus was crucified on the Cross attests to the evil of capital punishment. IT also confirms the error of trying to settle things by the sword. IT was NOT necessary and a terrible thing to happen. Why is it that so many Christians demand blood and killing? Where are the so-called born-again Christian voices against capital punishment and war.I am sure there are some but I would be willing to wager that less rather than more is the norm. If an exception can be made for one commandment (thou shalt not kill) then exceptions can be made for all the other ones. Christians everywhere try to desperately twist the meaning of that word "kill." I recall a phrase used at many funerals, "the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh ... Blessed be the Name of the LORD" Who gave humans permission to burn others at the stake, drop bombs that kill so many innocent lives, invade, maim, torture, burn, and maim? Who gave so-called "Manifest Destiny" to the colonizing powers? if you read Frederick Douglass's book on slavery.. a clear message is this: the masters and mistresses taht were MOST to be feared for their cruelty were those who were Christians. Perhaps, a lesson for these "end times."
This commandment was meant for All human beings. I don't believe there were any exceptions. I don't recall Jesus Christ every authorizing or committing a human killing. He came close when He was left with the adultress woman. However, He chose not too.

God is not limited by HER/HIS creation. God is NOT contained by any one religion, creed, person, or nation. This is glorious news. Let us exalt and tolerate the Differences as well as the similarities in the many pathways that teach and show our path back to God.

May the Blessings Be

dragonmagic

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Religion is FlimFlam spirituality
Posted by: SevenStarHand on Jan 17, 2008 4:08 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is comprehensive proof that the symbolism of many ancient texts, canons, and concepts is an advanced and extremely ancient spiritual & philosophical technology that predates all extant religions and mystery schools. Consequently, here is proof, beyond disproof, that all three so-called "Faiths of Abraham" are purposeful deceptions.

Here is Wisdom...

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Gerard is not a heathen
Posted by: PaulK on Jan 17, 2008 4:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He's quite urbane.

In a religious sense, "heathen" lumps together various types of European goddess worshippers and polytheists. No nontheists.

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Armageddon outta here
Posted by: stonehinge on Jan 17, 2008 4:20 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that's for damn sure.

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I'm not sure I'd waste money on this book
Posted by: Jasonix on Jan 17, 2008 6:22 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As others have pointed out, there have been at least a dozen movies made about the Rapture. (If you check the library at the local independent Baptist or Assemblies of God church, you'll probably find some Soylent Green-era Rapture flicks like Years of Beast or Thief in the Night on weathered old VHS tapes. They're a hoot. WAY cheesier than Left Behind, which is just plain bad.) It makes me question whether this author really did his research.

Some authors who have debunked the Rapture myth include evangelical Christian writer Richard Abanes (believe it or not, they don't all believe this tripe), and Lutheran theologian Barbara Rossing. The BBC did an excellent documentary called The Doomsday Code that used to be available in its entirety on InformationClearingHouse.info. For anyone looking to understand how dangerous and how pervasive this bizarre belief is, I'd recommend starting with the documentary.

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It will be a wonderful world
Posted by: tgabriel on Jan 17, 2008 10:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
when those dullards are gone. I wish their trip to the clouds would come already. I am sickened by this "me first" bunch who cares not for anyone but their own trip up the elevator shaft.

So, come on whachamacallit. Give the rest of us some peace and quiet.

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6' under, remember ?
Posted by: davy on Jan 18, 2008 12:47 AM   
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Bring on the religion if you want a good fight. Remember the opening scene in that 6' under, that was sooo funny.

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REligon has neither on monoply on morality or nonsense
Posted by: hd70642 on Jan 18, 2008 3:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is true you could have an exhaustive list of both the atrocities as well as idocies of religion . However teleavengalist are not the only snake oil sales man on television (tell lie vision) .
From Dr Phil MacGraw to various get rich Finnial gurus there are plenty of hucksters to keep the teleavengelist company in humanity's hall of shame . Dr phil chastizes adults that reside with their folks with out asking how much they earn or what their marketable skills or educational level is .With all foreclosures do you think the realestate market is a good mine ?

Of cource do not forget how homeless people and people who live in trailor parks are mocked and ridiculed . So yes the rapture is ridulos but economic reactionaries no matter what their religious out look are not shinning exambles of morality or sanity for that matter.

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one less god
Posted by: karyse on Jan 18, 2008 6:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For those who are interested in getting xian friends and aquaintences to understand --

"Look," I tell him/her, "suppose I ask you to come worship Zeus with me? No? How about Athena? Well, how your brain works upon hearing the name Zeus, or any of the rest of the hundreds of gods you deny, is how my brain works with the ONE god."

I don't know why you're so freaked out, I only believe in one less god than you do.

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Sorry to burst your bubble
Posted by: eric555 on Jan 18, 2008 1:15 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You can not discredit scripture by pointing to a false doctrine and calling it false.

Anyone who has bothered to take a good look at the concept of a rapture knows that it is not supported by scripture. So to this book and it's author the only thing I have to say is....DUH.

However, the fact remains that a lot of Christians do believe this. It's too bad, but it makes sense. The Church has increasingly become more and more shallow with time. It is more pronounced in the West or more correctly America.

Any Christian in this country that has been told by a co worker that he is not intrested in hearing about Christ will tell you that he has been persecuted. Boy is he in for a surprise.

Pre Trib Rapture is false. However those that beleive it are working real hard to put in motion the events that they think will trigger it. The only thing they will trigger is the anger of their neighbors. Just read through some of the post on this site. There are already quite a few people who blame Christians for everything that goes wrong.

When the real trouble starts in this country, and it won't be long now, these "Christians" will not be prepared. Because they belong to churches that teach one false doctrine after another....Rapture, Prosperity Gosple, Health and Wealth, Eternal Security, just to name a few. They will not have the faith needed to endure till the end. They will turn their backs on God because they were never interested in the truth to begin with. Only in what they wanted to hear.

Shallow Chiristians are not the only victims of false doctrine. Many people will look for any excuse not to believe. The Church in this country has given them far to many excuses. As well as a huge target people will be able to point to and blame when the Tribulation is here.

So laugh at the rapture if you want to. That is its purpose. To trick the believers and distract the non believers. Works real well.

I am sure you can continue to find scholars who will tell you that the author of Revelation was crazy. There is no shortage of people who will help you believe what you want to believe, that's easy.

What does God ask of you? That you accept the gift of Salvation that has been offered to everyone. That is hard, you will have to learn to be a different person. You will have to accept that there is such a thing as right and wrong, you will find that there are changes that must be made in your life if it is to glorify God. YOu might also find that his strength is sufficent to the task.

2 Corinthians 12:7  And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
8  For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
9  And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

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» RE: II Corinthians 12:7-9 Posted by: vasumurti
» RE: II Corinthians 12:7-9 Posted by: eric555
» RE: II Corinthians 12:7-9 Posted by: Longdream
» RE: II Corinthians 12:7-9 Posted by: eric555
» RE: II Corinthians 12:7-9 Posted by: Longdream
» RE: II Corinthians 12:7-9 Posted by: Longdream
» But, vasumurti! Posted by: morticia
» RE: But, vasumurti! Posted by: eric555
» RE: But, vasumurti! Posted by: morticia
» RE: But, vasumurti! Posted by: eric555
» RE: But, vasumurti! Posted by: morticia
» Addendum Posted by: morticia
» RE: Addendum Posted by: eric555
» RE: Addendum Posted by: morticia
» RE: Addendum Posted by: eric555
» RE: Addendum Posted by: morticia
» RE: But, vasumurti! Posted by: eric555
» RE: But, vasumurti! Posted by: morticia
» RE: Sorry to burst your bubble Posted by: Longdream

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There is no 'rapture' in the Bible!
Posted by: Cooltruth on Jan 18, 2008 2:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What Bible are you reading that referrences a rapture happening? It's 'false doctrine' that anybody will be raptured. The anti-Christ is coming before Jesus returns so whomever gets left behind will probably be getting a better deal than the ones who are fooled by the anti-Christ. These 'Evangelicals' will be the first ones fooled...

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With heels dug in
Posted by: kahoma on Jan 18, 2008 2:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm afraid that the rapture will have to wait til the Xian Reconstructionists transform the US into theocracy. That may take a while... meanwhile I'll have my heels dug in!

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But there is a Rapture.
Posted by: Longdream on Jan 19, 2008 6:08 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And it's elementary. Although it contains such bad news for the typical "faith without works", Jesus as your personal Savior Protestant fundamentalist, it's no wonder they stick with making things up out of Revelations.

It's right there in Matthew:

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Matthew 25: 31-46

31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his throne of glory; 32 and all the nations will be gathered before him and he will separate them from one another, just as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33 and he will put the sheep on his right hand and the goats on his left.

34 Then the King will say to those on his right, “Come! you who are the blessed ones of my Father, inherit the kingdom that was prepared for you from the beginning of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me a drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.”

37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, “Lord, when did we see you hungry and fed you, or thirsty and we gave you a drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and we invited you in, or naked and we clothed you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and we came to you?”

40 And answering, the King will say to them, “Truly I say to you, as much as you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.”

41 Then he will say to those on his left, “Depart from me, you accursed ones, into the eternal fire that has been kept in readiness for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you did not give me anything to eat, I was thirsty and you did not give me a drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I was naked and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit me.”

44 Then they will also answer, saying, “Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and we did not help you?”

45 Then he will answer them, saying, “Truly I say to you, as much as you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for me.”

46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

That seems like what they're talking about as the Rapture to me. Except for the concern for the poor and the least of the brethren, whether or not they are righteous, even if they're in prison, even if they are not the same as us. All they need to be is broken, unfortunate, and we come to righteousness with our pity, our care and our love for them.

I have never understood how that could be ignored.

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Few are chosen
Posted by: Art on Jan 19, 2008 9:03 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I didn't invent this one myself but its so funny i'll give it to you again.
The Rapture is in full flow, people disappearing everywhere. Suddenly president Hilary discovers... Bill is gone! The shock, the horror, surely not him! Oh nooooooooh!

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Dockside
Posted by: rtmyth on Jan 20, 2008 2:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ignorance, arrogance,superstition and fear gave rise to religion, and, unfortunately, are still common enough to sustain it to this day. Huckabee is one of millions of Americans who eagerly look forward to Armageddon/world war three.

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I wish like hell Jesus would actually come back
Posted by: UnEasyOne on Jan 21, 2008 3:40 AM   
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Nobody would be more amazed than he at all the gentiles claiming to be his followers. He was a Jew. He preached to Jews. A Roman citizen who never met him named Saul of Tarsus claimed to have a vision in the desert, and - much to the consternation of Jesus' actual followers - set about changing nearly aspect of that which Jesus said he would change "...not a jot or tittle."

I would LMFAO when I saw the reaction of the redneck believers to what he REALLY had to say - and then I'd do my best to keep em from hanging him again.

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Why do intelligent people believe in "The Rapture?"
Posted by: Science1 on Jan 21, 2008 2:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I must admit it took me a period of time to
appreciate why intelligent people believe
in something as profoundly absurd as the "Rapture."

It really boils down to the comment made by a priest or minister that "If you give me a child for his/her first 5 years, I will have them for
a lifetime!

And so it goes - year after year; century and century.

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Infantile Book, no Service
Posted by: herbal on Jan 28, 2008 3:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a serious issue attested by the fact that the Not-left-behinders have so much power as useful tool for the corporatists. They influence the neo-cons and provide encouragement for hate and war; all in the name of Christ. (Christ was a pacifist, see Matt. Ch. 5-8)

This book is light weight because it does not attend to a serious discussion or exposure of patent apostacy and heresy in Christianity. Aside from frivolous encouragement for atheists, would it not be better for Alternet to give press to serious debate and commentary?

OK, some facts:

Rapture as a word and concept does not appear in the Bible or any concordance.

Presbyterian, Rev. Irving, in Scotland, was kicked out of the church for preaching made up theology. He taught his flock speaking in tongues for the first time and 'listening' seriously to one's own visions or dreams as constituting serious revelation.

In 1830 one of Irving's parishoners, Margaret McDonald, a 15 year old girl on what she thought was her death bed, had a vision in what was probably a ferverish delirium.

Her's was the vision that Jesus would come not once, but twice; the first time before "Tribulation" of the people of the world at the time of end days supposedly foretold by the Book of Revelation. The 'saints, 144,000 of them, would be taken up into heaven bodily by an invisible Jesus before the judgement. Theologians call this doctrine, "pre-millenialism".

Irving is called the father of Pentacostalism. But the original Pentcostals were anti-government because they thought the end times were so near. Man's government was corrupted and would soon be replaced by Jesus' divine reign on earth. Most of these groups have been historically anti-government and avoid military and even voting. Jehova's Witness and Seventh Day Adventists are branches from the original Pentacostals.
The new threat to peace and justice is not from these groups but from new neo-con perversion of even the already apostatic 'rapture' believers. People like Rev. Hagee and Tim LaHaye (author of the Left Behind novels) have taken pre-millenialism to new and vicious extremes. They have repudiated the old line pacifist Pentacostals and endorsed nationalism, jingoism and war. Hagee can be seen on U Tube. Key in Rev. Hagee AIPAC to see him advocate nuclear attack of Iran. Also key in Hillary Clinton AIPAC to hear nearly identical rhetoric about take-no-options-off-the-table invasion of Iran. They both play up to the Israeli lobby, having sold out to the corporatist agenda. No, Hillary is not pre-millenialist; she is a professed Methodist mainliner Christian. One must read the definition of corporatist (word coined by Benito Mussolini, on Wikipedia to understand ). Rapture, as well as Hillary Clinton, have to be understood as symptoms of the new fascism.

The biggest threat to peace are the related Christian Zionists like Hagee. The Christian Zionist pre-millennialists actively plot with right wing Orthodox Jewish Zionists who both believe that if the Temple is rebuilt (the 3rd, the 2nd having been destroyed by Jews and Romans in AD 70). They believe that Jesus' 2nd coming, or the first Messiah for the Jews, will be conjured up by the rebuilding of the Temple. To do this, the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque will have to be razed. If this causes a WW III, then that is all part of the profesied Armageddon.

This Temple rebuilding is a big thing to Israelis, even their 80% agnostics, and is a major block to negotiating peace in Palestine/Israel.

Christian Zionism; look it up in Wikipedia
See also: http://www.leftbehind.com/

Forget the "Heathen's.." book. Its bubblegum. Christian Zionists and Israeli Neo-Zionists deserve a more serious book.

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A Little Over The Top
Posted by: NoPCZone on Jan 17, 2008 12:23 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are many Christians who hold to the Biblical promise of Christ's return who are not right-wing lunatics trying to speed the demise of humanity. The reasons for this are many, but the same teachings tell followers that no human knows the time this will occur. They are instructed to just keep on living peaceful lives or grace, mercy and peace.

When those who choose not t accept this teaching, or that of any other faith, mock and ridicule that which others hold dear, they hurt themselves and any cause that they seek to advance. The Christian teachings of forgiveness; loving those who are poor, oppressed and repressed; stewardship: fellowship with all in peace; etc are points of common ground between countless Christians and others. Insulting their faith is intolerant, unwise, personally hurtful and harmful to advancing many common goals.

Christians have been heavily involved with ending slavery, child labor, the civil rights movement and many other areas of progressive interest. Not all- but many and in very important numbers.

A little sensitivity is in order. You don't gain allies by insulting them.

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Luther thought the Book of Revelations was written by a lunatic
Posted by: Sociallibertarian on Jan 17, 2008 12:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was raised to be a Lutheran and attended Sunday school until I was 15, extremely unusual when I was young in Sweden. I became an atheist on my 16 birthday.

However I remembered from Sunday school that Luther, the father of protestantism, considered the Book of Revelations written by a lunatic and therefore should not be considered. He also disregarded the Book of James, the one with all the rules you should follow to be a good Christian.

It si ironic that the two Books that Born Again Christians adhere to is the Book of Revelation and James the two Books Luther thought to be crap.

Luther said that you only had to believe in Jesus and you would be saved. You did not have to abstain or virutllay live like a monk. He advocated working hard and playing hard. As he himself did.

I can accept that people believe but I cannot accept that believers wants to force me to believe, not only that want to legislate that I have to follow the Book of James or follow Sharia Laws.

Maybe I will read this but I recommend you to read founder of Sceptic Magazine Michael Shermer's works:

1. "How We Believe", Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God

2. "Why People Believe Weird Things" Pseudoscience, superstitions, and other confusions of our time

The good thing however is that the reign of the Religious Right is over, they have not achieved anything nor has any president given them anything that has been promised. They were disappointed with Jimmy Carter, whom they got elected. They were equally disappointed with Reagan and both the Bushes.

The new Republican candidates are only doing lip service.

I think it is time for social libertarians to not demonize the Christian right , it only makes them stronger, but to advocate their own version of secular society. Nobody likes a whiner.

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» I WOULD WANT HER FIRED!! Posted by: Prairie Waif
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Great plug for his book
Posted by: Lector on Jan 17, 2008 1:38 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a humorous piece which any person well-grounded in their religion should be able to ignore. Those who complain about being targeted are uncertain about their faith to begin with and forget the endless witch-hunts their side have perpetrated throughout history on non-believers and that atheists today are sick and tired of it and aren’t going to put up with it anymore ergo the renewed backlash we see today in books like The End of Religion. I agree that the Christian Right, the faith-heads, anyone who believes in any sort of sky-god should not be demonized. They need help, like all of us in this vale of tears, but on the other hand no one should be subjected to a religion where proselytes preach a book that states all humans are born guilty, born sick, commanded to be well and in return they get a universe designed for them to live eternally in which in turn gives some the excuse everything is permitted when it's backed by God, including fantastic re-interpretations of the Book of Revelations. Which gives Thill the right to write a book of this sort.

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» RE: Great plug for his book Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive

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Tired of the the hypocrisy.
Posted by: Obijuan on Jan 17, 2008 2:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was courted by a born-again for a couple years. I saw deeply into this abyss. It's a scary dilusion where folks follow some twisted version of Christ's teachings. As a non-practicing Catholic, I ended up leaving the situation due to the incompatablity of my Christ with theirs.

Coming to Christ is a personal thing. Praying is a personal thing. Christ instructed us to pray in private and to let our actions speak for our faith. Born again Christians do exactly the opposite. It is instead a way to justify all that they have...problems and unbelieveably also prosperity. The number of uber rich born agains is scary, and speaks volumes to how twisted they have made Christ's original doctrine of peace, fellowship, and love. I have heard many time about the 'doctrine of prosperity' and that wealth is a gift from God. Isn''t there also something about a rich man and the eye of a needle? How big of a house would Christ have? How many cars? It always seemed to me they were great at applying Christ's teaching to others...and terrible at looking at themselves.

Need I mention the leaders of these mega churches at all? Sad.

Understand, I believe that whether or not Christ was every really a dude walking around is irrelevant (as is whether he was the son of God literally), the teachings attributed to him are sound. How they are used and manipulated in today's America is terrifying.

By the way, anyone with a true belief in Christ can see the George W. is NOT a believer. None of them are. And you should also feel in your heart that any violence (like that in Iraq) is totally anti-Christian. Our support of Saudi Arabia is anti Christian. Our use of fractional reserve banking and all the evil associated with it is also technically against the teaching of Christ (remember the temple money changers). But you support Bush blindly despite all the outward signs he doesn't believe.

But what a brilliant and simple way to hide evil...behind the name of Christ. And if you feel this in your heart but do nothing...more shame on you.

obi

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The rapture? Bring it on, and don't forget to take Mike Huckabee!
Posted by: Intihuatana on Jan 17, 2008 4:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not a Christian, but I can tell you that nothing would thrill me more than the rapture actually happening. Maybe then, after all of the zealous born again Christians, evangelicals, and social conservatives finally float away, those of us left can construct ourselves a society based on reason and personal choice.

Would those of us left behind in the Rapture because we're not evangelical Christians be upset by our continued presence on Earth? I think I can honestly say that I would feel privileged to remain here as one of the new standard bearers of a society that we would certainly rearrange to allow much greater freedom of expression and protection of our civil liberties. And since so many war mongers in the Christian faith claim to be born agains and evangelicals, there would certainly be a precipitous drop in the amount of people worldwide who become casualties and targets of those who claim to represent Christ.

Deep down, I know that Christianity is a much different and more accepting religion than how it's portrayed today. And I've never believed that the true teachings of Jesus would even remotely resemble what the GOP would have us believe. It's hard to imagine supply side Jesus cutting taxes for the rich, and breathing down a detainee's neck at Guantanamo, waterboard in hand.

But if the rapture will only include those of us faithful to the evangelical/born again movements, I say "Bon Voyage, Enjoy your trip, and Don't forget to take Mike Huckabee with you, no matter what he may have done as governor of Arkansas." As for me, I'm staying here, and helping to rebuild a society in which we don't fry people on death row, demonize a medically beneficial plant, and send our young people into mindless killing fields to profit corporate fatcats in the name of freedom.

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» Amen to that! Posted by: jim_altman
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A better wake up than a cup of coffee and a bagel!
Posted by: fibrowitch on Jan 17, 2008 4:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not only did the title make me, a person who loves Star Trek, and knows Gene Roddenberry was referred to as the 'Great Bird of the Galaxy' laugh. It gave me an image of Jesus standing at the controls of the Enterprise transporter bay.

Since I don't believe; I have the pleasure of seeing this article as a way to snicker at a group I think of as backwards. It will do nothing to prevent the current problem in this country, and throughout the world where people looking for simple religious solutions to the fast moving world. Will continue to wrest control of this country, as they have done so in the Middle East. Then I expect those of us who found this article funny will be wanting the world to stop so WE can get off.

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They're Already Made: I've seen two of them (1978, 1980)
Posted by: terradea42 on Jan 17, 2008 5:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a former "born-again" from Indiana, I was subjected to all kinds of propaganda film about the rapture. Image of the Beast and A Distant Thunder were two such films. One showed a woman, too educated to believe, being left behind after the rapture, and what she had to do to survive, like draw fake government barcodes (the "image" of the beast) on her hand in order to buy batteries to keep ahead of the government goons out to arrest "terrorists" who refused the mark. It also depicted a Methodist minister crying in the church, wondering what he did wrong since he and the rest of his flock were left behind. Enough to scare the sense out of anyone lacking in a foundation of education and reason. The current mess has been a long time coming, folks. We really need to nip this nonsense in the bud before it destroys us.

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'So bad it wouldn't sell as a movie idea'?
Posted by: Chickensh*tEagle on Jan 17, 2008 5:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That shows what you know! Someone did make a movie of it. So there! :-)

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» I'm glad someone pointed this out! Posted by: FriendlyFeminist
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Has this guy not even heard of the movie?
Posted by: izzyK on Jan 17, 2008 6:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There already is a terrible multi-volumed Left Behind movie, it has the guy from growing pains in the lead role, It's atrocious, but the fact that there already is such an atrocious film really does take away from the writer's little thought experiment.

It as though he says : "wouldn't it be really weird if this was a movie storyline? Because lot's of people believe it will happen" The second part is unfortunately true, but its not weird because it already IS an awful, overwrought, conspiracy theory filled, and even anti-semitic Movie (with sequels no less), that, as a video clerk in Texas I had to direct people towards about ten times a day. Not that i don't agree with the writer on this article, but the knowledge disconnect between the morass of the bible belt and the (relatively) enlightened coastal areas continues to astonish me.

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please progress Alternet
Posted by: wawa on Jan 17, 2008 6:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To continue to spill cyber ink about the heretical 'Christian' right and ignore the progressive intelligent Christian left is a disservice to your readers.

The rapturist's are fundamentalists who have LEFT BEHIND the gospel Christ preached.

They adhere to a 200 year old mis-interpretation and mis-reading of disparate scriptures that they have weaved together to support their fear based doctrine.


The cult of 'Christian' Zionism is what the concept of Anti-Christ is all about.

This heretical theology of Premellenial Dispensation worships a god of Armageddon and not the God of love, forgiveness and compassion that Jesus/AKA The Prince of Peace taught.

These fear filled people are the epitome of what the majority of theologians have always understood to be what the term anti-christ is really all about.

Anti-what Christ taught which is one must forgive to be forgiven, love and do good towards ones enemies NOT bomb, torture or occupy any.






Many evangelicals interpreted the establishment of Israel to be the fulfillment of -how they understood and interpreted- certain prophetic scriptures.

They interpreted the Israeli victory in the 1967 War and the capture of Jerusalem, the West Bank, Gaza, Sinai and the Golan Heights to be an act of God and not because of Israeli superior military might.

The theology of the fictional Left Behind series, is the epitome of the spirit of the anti-christ:
fear of the other that drives one to violence.

THE PHILOSOPHY AND MORALS of JESUS of NAZARETH, as penned by Thomas Jefferson illuminate just how far these cultist Christians have strayed from the message Christ delivered and modeled with his life.

According to Christ, to be his follower, one must be just: for justice comes from virtue which comes from the heart.

And that one is to treat ALL people the way one wants to be treated and not to judge the non-believer.

Christ taught that the only way to resist evil is with good and modeled that one must always work for PEACEFUL resolutions, even to the point of returning violence with compassion and forgiveness, as Jesus did when nailed to a cross for he prayed:

"Father forgive them, they do not know what they are doing."

Eileen Fleming,
Reporter and Editor WAWA:
http://www.wearewideawake.org/
Author "Keep Hope Alive" and "Memoirs of a Nice Irish American 'Girl's' Life in Occupied Territory"
Producer "30 Minutes With Vanunu"

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ROFLMFAO!
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Jan 17, 2008 6:45 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ROFLMFAO!

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In case of the Rapture, can I have Your Car?
Posted by: Frank J. on Jan 17, 2008 7:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In some areas Rapture Christians have bumper stickers that say "In Case of the Rapture, this Car will be Unmanned." One of my friends wanted to put out bumper stickers that said, "In case of the Rapture, can I have your car?"
We're both Christians but can laugh about it. I think this book looks very funny and I'll probably read it.
I just don't see the God I believe in doing anything big and flashy like the rapture. I've been a farmer my whole life and God's involvement in nature is subtle and profound.
I don't know what the afterlife looks like or if there will be any kind of "end of times" but I believe we need to focus on fixing the problems in our world now.
"The Lord moves in mysterious ways
and tonight, my son ... He's gonna use your car"
--Terry Allen, from Gimme a Ride to Heaven Boy

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Religious tolerance
Posted by: LeeAnnG on Jan 17, 2008 7:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I was growing up, my parents were atheists, but my grandparents took my sister, my brother, and me to an evangelical church every Sunday for years. When my brother refused to go, he was penalized by my grandparents with fewer gifts and less attention than my sister and I got. Interesting that my non-religious parents did not penalize or even ridicule me or my sister for going to church.

From the time I was about 8 until I was 14, I did my best to believe. I was "saved" on many occasions but was consistently disappointed by my own lack of true conviction. I always expected to find some inner peace or thrill or revelation (as described in all the religious stories given to me in Sunday school). It never happened, but I kept trying over and over until I finally gave up.

When I was 15, my parents joined the Unitarian Church because their social and political beliefs coincided with that of the congregation and minister. Although eventually most of my family stopped attending, it had been a completely positive experience. My parents' tolerance of their children's various religious journeys left me with a respect for others. I didn't quite understand the lure of religious dogma and, having attempted to immerse myself in it with little success, couldn't connect to it, but I wasn't threatened either.

I have family and friends who are Mormons, Catholics, Pentacostals, a variety of moderate Protestants, and even Muslims. I also have friends who are adamant Atheists. For many years, I really thought I should not only tolerate, but respect all of these beliefs.

However, as I get older, I find more and more that I'm actually offended by much of it. I respect the right to believe anything at all, but I can't admire the dogma of what I consider to be mythology. I would never attempt to "enlighten" anyone or impose my lack of belief either. But I no longer think I should listen to what I believe is religious nonsense without expressing that opinion.

It all seems so ridiculous to me. The hypocrisy, the contradictions, the cherry-picking from the really absurd assertions in the Bible, the twisting of words and notions to justify all kinds of horrid beliefs and actions, and - especially - the nasty, exclusionary belief that a "loving" god would be such a thought police he (always a male deity, of course) would condemn the non-believer to an eternity of pain and suffering. Wow! How much uglier can you get than that?

There are very different attitudes in our society concerning expressing beliefs and lack of beliefs. For example, during lunch one day, a coworker asked me why I don't believe. I tried to explain without being derogatory about her Christian faith that I think it's all mythology and no more believable than the Greek or Roman gods. Her response was "well, maybe someday you will come to believe." I said that would never happen and she said, "Never say 'never'."

Now I could have said "maybe someday you will see the light and become rational." But that would be considered rude. And, of course my friend would surely say "never" to that idea.

Throughout my lifetime, it has been my experience that religious liberals and agnostics are the most tolerant. Even my dad, who was an atheist, had no problem with my going to church or ever tried to relieve anyone of his or her beliefs. At the same time, I have found that the most intolerant and judgemental are those with the most ardent beliefs.

Partly because the theocratic atmosphere in America has become so frightening and partly because I am just so sick and tired of the pervasive religious pushiness, my attitude has become that of a "militant" agnostic: "I don't know and you don't either." I let people alone unless they try to impose their beliefs on me, and then I really do tell them what I think. Finally.

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Yawn
Posted by: Philip Newton on Jan 17, 2008 7:39 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A not-very-entertaining article about boring funda-mentalists who get it wrong.

Nowhere in the Bible is a rapture told.

Only in comfy American churches did this contagion incubate, where a painless and arrogant doctrine of Christian immunity from divine wrath is spun.

Goes right along with the "Prosperity Gospel" of (hopefully soon-to-be-defrocked) "Name it and claim it" pastors.

The shame...

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You lost me at this one part
Posted by: war_on_tara on Jan 17, 2008 8:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sir, it's the Rapture.' And then the President is like, 'What are we going to do about it?' and some other Cabinet guy goes, 'There's nothing we can do.' And as the Secret Service sweeps the President away to an undisclosed location, where they fill him in on what the Rapture is.

We all know the current President knows what the Rapture is! That's one of our many problems as a country - we already have a President who believes this stuff quite literally.

Presumably W has already made preparations for the Rapture trip, including the inevitability of having to leave Cheney behind!

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Bring it on!!
Posted by: amphead on Jan 17, 2008 8:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You mean all these right wing evangelicals disappearing from the face of the earth at the same time? Can't wait! And good riddance!! But with all those blood thirsty murderers gone who is going to cause all the violence and death that is supposed to be "left behind"? Oh, I guess it'll be outsourced!?

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» RE: Bring it on!! Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN

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No Child "Left Behind"
Posted by: factbased on Jan 17, 2008 8:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone else think NCLB was named to appeal to the rapture fetishists?

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» RE: No Child "Left Behind" Posted by: lgough

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The whole SALES staff swept up the first day?!?!?
Posted by: Bic Pentameter on Jan 17, 2008 8:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you took all of the lying out of salesmanship you'd get [insert punch line]

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» [Punchline] Posted by: SavageDissension
» RE: [Punchline] Posted by: UnEasyOne

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What if they are right?
Posted by: edraven on Jan 17, 2008 9:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We should begin by not letting those who believe in the Rapture to be employed as pilots, drivers, doctors, or in any other profession where their disapearance could cause trouble for the majority left behind.

It's not too late to protect ourselves.

Ed Graham

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» Brilliant idea! Posted by: SavageDissension

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Yes, anything can be parodied.
Posted by: Sojourner on Jan 17, 2008 9:47 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, whatever is the subject proves its worth by remaining better than the parody.

"Blazzing Saddles" was a hit because it was a parody of melodramas based on frontier themes, horse operas. They deserve to be parodied.

Maybe there are some who have not outgrown the Sunday School explanations of religion. If so, they also deserve to be parodied.

In the case of this article, it is the parody that deserves a parody. The hero is this snotty little kid who runs through cemeteries knocking over monuments in order to feel strong.

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"Christians" who believe in the "State of Israel's" moral imperative to exist
Posted by: Prairie Waif on Jan 17, 2008 9:59 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone who knows the history of Zionism and its founder, Theodor Herzlwho is the FOUNDER OF THE ZIONIST MOVEMENT.

In 1894, after covering the Dreufus Trial in Paris and was concerned by the anti-Jewish tone the trial had given/promoted.
Reference: Chambers Dictionary of World History
In 1895, he published Der Judenstaat ('The Jewish State') arguing that the Jews should have their own state where Jews could go to live from the parts of the world where they experienced rejection or persecution. In 1897, he established the World Zionist League to find a homeland for the Jews.

Reference: Wikipedia with back-up by Chambers
In 1902–03 Herzl was invited to give evidence before the British Royal Commission on Alien Immigration. The appearance brought him into close contact with members of the British government, particularly with Joseph Chamberlain, then secretary of state for the colonies, through whom he negotiated with the Egyptian government for a charter for the settlement of the Jews in Al 'Arish, in the Sinai Peninsula, adjoining southern Palestine.

On the failure of that scheme, which took him to Cairo, he received, through L. J. Greenberg, an offer (Aug., 1903) on the part of the British government to facilitate a large Jewish settlement, with autonomous government and under British suzerainty, in British East Africa. At the same time, the Zionist movement being threatened by the Russian government, he visited St. Petersburg and was received by Sergei Witte, then finance minister, and Viacheslav Plehve, minister of the interior, the latter of whom placed on record the attitude of his government toward the Zionist movement. On that occasion Herzl submitted proposals for the amelioration of the Jewish position in Russia. He published the Russian statement, and brought the British offer, commonly known as the "Uganda Project," before the Sixth Zionist Congress (Basel, August 1903), carrying the majority (295:178, 98 abstentions) with him on the question of investigating this offer, after the Russian delegation stormed out.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From the initial founding of Zionism, I find it laughable that they now ASSERT their RIGHT to have taken the land from the Palestinians because they were it's rightful owners. Gee, didn't they vote to live in UGANDA? They wanted a place to have a STATE where they would be free of persecution and rejection. Wow! Maybe if they had had better transportation, they would have decided on Florida or Costa Rica, who knows?

So, for these Rapture Oriented/Israeli Supportive "Christians (the Rapture won't happen until the Jews are happy in a their "homeland" according to the Left Behind "Christians."

The promotion of rejection and persecution of Jews throughout Europe caused them to STEAL the lands and homes of the rightful owners, some of whom still have the deeds to the homes now occupied by Jewish residents,but, I guess that is Okey Dokey because Theodor Herzl and his World Zionist Congress have THEIR Homeland.

QUESTION: Who did you STEAL it from?

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» no rightful owners Posted by: jwg

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Heh
Posted by: izzyK on Jan 17, 2008 10:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I won't deny they can be funny with the right audience, but you and i know it's because they're that bad. In that vein though, i would also recommend "7 Signs of Christ's Return" and "The Book of Mormon Movie" for Christian Science Theatre 3000.

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» RE: Heh Posted by: factbased
» RE: Heh Posted by: Longdream

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a spiritual interpretation of rapture
Posted by: alturn on Jan 17, 2008 11:47 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What this article brings to light is how little thought is taken in America to the concept of Spiritual evolution. Rarely are spriritual concepts discussed from a spiritual, versus a mental or literal level.

The concept of rapture is similar to that of kriyas in Eastern traditions. Raptures on a personal level occur during spiritual ritual when, due to intense focus and discipline, higher spriritual vibrations enter the subtle and physical bodies. These higher vibrations cause shakings of the body as old, outworn, and lower vibratory patterns resist energies that have not been experienced before. Relaxing into these higher energies cause the raptures to cease.

A similar phenomenon occurs when new thoughts are presented to the mind. The first time a new concept is presented to society, such as global warming, there is a violent reaction, or rapture, against it. As the idea is repeated, the mind starts to consider it and acclimate to it. As the new idea is accepted, the shakings die down.

Astrologically, there is a movement from Pisces to Aquarius which Ancient Wisdom Teachings indicate has a different energy, which is more potent than that in Pisces. Those most obsessed with the concept of the rapture are those clinging to the energies of Pisces (which is said to have motivated devotion, idealism and individuality) and find fear in the energies of Aquarius (which is said to stimulate the realization of interdependence, wholeness thinking and synthesis - which technically is the science of sustainable development).

From that standpoint, those open to new ideas and technologies are already absorbing the new energies without resistance, and rapture would be less an issue since they are open to and are already helping create the new. Society as a whole, however, is filled with those who believe a world based in sharing, justice and cooperation is something that could not happen on this heavenly body, earth. That resistance within America will likely cause spiritual rapture in society (outpictured as economic hardship in particular) as new ways of living together based in spiritual principles are rejected by many.

Hence fundamentalists literalize the rapture, which if it physically manifests, likely will not be seen for what it is.

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Sarah Ruth
Posted by: SARAH RUTH on Jan 17, 2008 1:12 PM   
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Whatever it takes to bring on the RAPTURE,,,, I am all for it. Then these programmed nincompoops can all go to their 'heaven' and those of us LEFT BEHIND can return to peace and the garden of Eden.

Proud to be LEFT BEHIND in a wonderful world without religion.

Sarah Ruth

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» RE: Sarah Ruth Posted by: EJ

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justice and peace
Posted by: dragonmagic on Jan 17, 2008 3:49 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dear Readers,

Jesus taught a heaven that could be reached here on earth. He taught a Non-violent form or resistance to oppressive forms of government. It is my sincere belief that Jesus' intention was NOT to start a world religion. He spoke to people for all time. Primarily though, He spoke for the people of HIS time. At no time has humanity ever been without an enlightened one. There are many amongst us today.

Sacrifice was never part of the worship of the Goddess. She did NOT demand a blood offering. That JEsus was crucified on the Cross attests to the evil of capital punishment. IT also confirms the error of trying to settle things by the sword. IT was NOT necessary and a terrible thing to happen. Why is it that so many Christians demand blood and killing? Where are the so-called born-again Christian voices against capital punishment and war.I am sure there are some but I would be willing to wager that less rather than more is the norm. If an exception can be made for one commandment (thou shalt not kill) then exceptions can be made for all the other ones. Christians everywhere try to desperately twist the meaning of that word "kill." I recall a phrase used at many funerals, "the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh ... Blessed be the Name of the LORD" Who gave humans permission to burn others at the stake, drop bombs that kill so many innocent lives, invade, maim, torture, burn, and maim? Who gave so-called "Manifest Destiny" to the colonizing powers? if you read Frederick Douglass's book on slavery.. a clear message is this: the masters and mistresses taht were MOST to be feared for their cruelty were those who were Christians. Perhaps, a lesson for these "end times."
This commandment was meant for All human beings. I don't believe there were any exceptions. I don't recall Jesus Christ every authorizing or committing a human killing. He came close when He was left with the adultress woman. However, He chose not too.

God is not limited by HER/HIS creation. God is NOT contained by any one religion, creed, person, or nation. This is glorious news. Let us exalt and tolerate the Differences as well as the similarities in the many pathways that teach and show our path back to God.

May the Blessings Be

dragonmagic

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Religion is FlimFlam spirituality
Posted by: SevenStarHand on Jan 17, 2008 4:08 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is comprehensive proof that the symbolism of many ancient texts, canons, and concepts is an advanced and extremely ancient spiritual & philosophical technology that predates all extant religions and mystery schools. Consequently, here is proof, beyond disproof, that all three so-called "Faiths of Abraham" are purposeful deceptions.

Here is Wisdom...

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Gerard is not a heathen
Posted by: PaulK on Jan 17, 2008 4:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He's quite urbane.

In a religious sense, "heathen" lumps together various types of European goddess worshippers and polytheists. No nontheists.

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Armageddon outta here
Posted by: stonehinge on Jan 17, 2008 4:20 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that's for damn sure.

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I'm not sure I'd waste money on this book
Posted by: Jasonix on Jan 17, 2008 6:22 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As others have pointed out, there have been at least a dozen movies made about the Rapture. (If you check the library at the local independent Baptist or Assemblies of God church, you'll probably find some Soylent Green-era Rapture flicks like Years of Beast or Thief in the Night on weathered old VHS tapes. They're a hoot. WAY cheesier than Left Behind, which is just plain bad.) It makes me question whether this author really did his research.

Some authors who have debunked the Rapture myth include evangelical Christian writer Richard Abanes (believe it or not, they don't all believe this tripe), and Lutheran theologian Barbara Rossing. The BBC did an excellent documentary called The Doomsday Code that used to be available in its entirety on InformationClearingHouse.info. For anyone looking to understand how dangerous and how pervasive this bizarre belief is, I'd recommend starting with the documentary.

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It will be a wonderful world
Posted by: tgabriel on Jan 17, 2008 10:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
when those dullards are gone. I wish their trip to the clouds would come already. I am sickened by this "me first" bunch who cares not for anyone but their own trip up the elevator shaft.

So, come on whachamacallit. Give the rest of us some peace and quiet.

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6' under, remember ?
Posted by: davy on Jan 18, 2008 12:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bring on the religion if you want a good fight. Remember the opening scene in that 6' under, that was sooo funny.

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REligon has neither on monoply on morality or nonsense
Posted by: hd70642 on Jan 18, 2008 3:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is true you could have an exhaustive list of both the atrocities as well as idocies of religion . However teleavengalist are not the only snake oil sales man on television (tell lie vision) .
From Dr Phil MacGraw to various get rich Finnial gurus there are plenty of hucksters to keep the teleavengelist company in humanity's hall of shame . Dr phil chastizes adults that reside with their folks with out asking how much they earn or what their marketable skills or educational level is .With all foreclosures do you think the realestate market is a good mine ?

Of cource do not forget how homeless people and people who live in trailor parks are mocked and ridiculed . So yes the rapture is ridulos but economic reactionaries no matter what their religious out look are not shinning exambles of morality or sanity for that matter.

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one less god
Posted by: karyse on Jan 18, 2008 6:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For those who are interested in getting xian friends and aquaintences to understand --

"Look," I tell him/her, "suppose I ask you to come worship Zeus with me? No? How about Athena? Well, how your brain works upon hearing the name Zeus, or any of the rest of the hundreds of gods you deny, is how my brain works with the ONE god."

I don't know why you're so freaked out, I only believe in one less god than you do.

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Sorry to burst your bubble
Posted by: eric555 on Jan 18, 2008 1:15 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You can not discredit scripture by pointing to a false doctrine and calling it false.

Anyone who has bothered to take a good look at the concept of a rapture knows that it is not supported by scripture. So to this book and it's author the only thing I have to say is....DUH.

However, the fact remains that a lot of Christians do believe this. It's too bad, but it makes sense. The Church has increasingly become more and more shallow with time. It is more pronounced in the West or more correctly America.

Any Christian in this country that has been told by a co worker that he is not intrested in hearing about Christ will tell you that he has been persecuted. Boy is he in for a surprise.

Pre Trib Rapture is false. However those that beleive it are working real hard to put in motion the events that they think will trigger it. The only thing they will trigger is the anger of their neighbors. Just read through some of the post on this site. There are already quite a few people who blame Christians for everything that goes wrong.

When the real trouble starts in this country, and it won't be long now, these "Christians" will not be prepared. Because they belong to churches that teach one false doctrine after another....Rapture, Prosperity Gosple, Health and Wealth, Eternal Security, just to name a few. They will not have the faith needed to endure till the end. They will turn their backs on God because they were never interested in the truth to begin with. Only in what they wanted to hear.

Shallow Chiristians are not the only victims of false doctrine. Many people will look for any excuse not to believe. The Church in this country has given them far to many excuses. As well as a huge target people will be able to point to and blame when the Tribulation is here.

So laugh at the rapture if you want to. That is its purpose. To trick the believers and distract the non believers. Works real well.

I am sure you can continue to find scholars who will tell you that the author of Revelation was crazy. There is no shortage of people who will help you believe what you want to believe, that's easy.

What does God ask of you? That you accept the gift of Salvation that has been offered to everyone. That is hard, you will have to learn to be a different person. You will have to accept that there is such a thing as right and wrong, you will find that there are changes that must be made in your life if it is to glorify God. YOu might also find that his strength is sufficent to the task.

2 Corinthians 12:7  And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
8  For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
9  And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

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» RE: II Corinthians 12:7-9 Posted by: vasumurti
» RE: II Corinthians 12:7-9 Posted by: eric555
» RE: II Corinthians 12:7-9 Posted by: Longdream
» RE: II Corinthians 12:7-9 Posted by: eric555
» RE: II Corinthians 12:7-9 Posted by: Longdream
» RE: II Corinthians 12:7-9 Posted by: Longdream
» But, vasumurti! Posted by: morticia
» RE: But, vasumurti! Posted by: eric555
» RE: But, vasumurti! Posted by: morticia
» RE: But, vasumurti! Posted by: eric555
» RE: But, vasumurti! Posted by: morticia
» Addendum Posted by: morticia
» RE: Addendum Posted by: eric555
» RE: Addendum Posted by: morticia
» RE: Addendum Posted by: eric555
» RE: Addendum Posted by: morticia
» RE: But, vasumurti! Posted by: eric555
» RE: But, vasumurti! Posted by: morticia
» RE: Sorry to burst your bubble Posted by: Longdream

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There is no 'rapture' in the Bible!
Posted by: Cooltruth on Jan 18, 2008 2:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What Bible are you reading that referrences a rapture happening? It's 'false doctrine' that anybody will be raptured. The anti-Christ is coming before Jesus returns so whomever gets left behind will probably be getting a better deal than the ones who are fooled by the anti-Christ. These 'Evangelicals' will be the first ones fooled...

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With heels dug in
Posted by: kahoma on Jan 18, 2008 2:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm afraid that the rapture will have to wait til the Xian Reconstructionists transform the US into theocracy. That may take a while... meanwhile I'll have my heels dug in!

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But there is a Rapture.
Posted by: Longdream on Jan 19, 2008 6:08 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And it's elementary. Although it contains such bad news for the typical "faith without works", Jesus as your personal Savior Protestant fundamentalist, it's no wonder they stick with making things up out of Revelations.

It's right there in Matthew:

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Matthew 25: 31-46

31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his throne of glory; 32 and all the nations will be gathered before him and he will separate them from one another, just as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33 and he will put the sheep on his right hand and the goats on his left.

34 Then the King will say to those on his right, “Come! you who are the blessed ones of my Father, inherit the kingdom that was prepared for you from the beginning of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me a drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.”

37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, “Lord, when did we see you hungry and fed you, or thirsty and we gave you a drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and we invited you in, or naked and we clothed you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and we came to you?”

40 And answering, the King will say to them, “Truly I say to you, as much as you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.”

41 Then he will say to those on his left, “Depart from me, you accursed ones, into the eternal fire that has been kept in readiness for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you did not give me anything to eat, I was thirsty and you did not give me a drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I was naked and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit me.”

44 Then they will also answer, saying, “Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and we did not help you?”

45 Then he will answer them, saying, “Truly I say to you, as much as you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for me.”

46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

That seems like what they're talking about as the Rapture to me. Except for the concern for the poor and the least of the brethren, whether or not they are righteous, even if they're in prison, even if they are not the same as us. All they need to be is broken, unfortunate, and we come to righteousness with our pity, our care and our love for them.

I have never understood how that could be ignored.

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Few are chosen
Posted by: Art on Jan 19, 2008 9:03 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I didn't invent this one myself but its so funny i'll give it to you again.
The Rapture is in full flow, people disappearing everywhere. Suddenly president Hilary discovers... Bill is gone! The shock, the horror, surely not him! Oh nooooooooh!

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Dockside
Posted by: rtmyth on Jan 20, 2008 2:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ignorance, arrogance,superstition and fear gave rise to religion, and, unfortunately, are still common enough to sustain it to this day. Huckabee is one of millions of Americans who eagerly look forward to Armageddon/world war three.

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I wish like hell Jesus would actually come back
Posted by: UnEasyOne on Jan 21, 2008 3:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nobody would be more amazed than he at all the gentiles claiming to be his followers. He was a Jew. He preached to Jews. A Roman citizen who never met him named Saul of Tarsus claimed to have a vision in the desert, and - much to the consternation of Jesus' actual followers - set about changing nearly aspect of that which Jesus said he would change "...not a jot or tittle."

I would LMFAO when I saw the reaction of the redneck believers to what he REALLY had to say - and then I'd do my best to keep em from hanging him again.

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Why do intelligent people believe in "The Rapture?"
Posted by: Science1 on Jan 21, 2008 2:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I must admit it took me a period of time to
appreciate why intelligent people believe
in something as profoundly absurd as the "Rapture."

It really boils down to the comment made by a priest or minister that "If you give me a child for his/her first 5 years, I will have them for
a lifetime!

And so it goes - year after year; century and century.

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Infantile Book, no Service
Posted by: herbal on Jan 28, 2008 3:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a serious issue attested by the fact that the Not-left-behinders have so much power as useful tool for the corporatists. They influence the neo-cons and provide encouragement for hate and war; all in the name of Christ. (Christ was a pacifist, see Matt. Ch. 5-8)

This book is light weight because it does not attend to a serious discussion or exposure of patent apostacy and heresy in Christianity. Aside from frivolous encouragement for atheists, would it not be better for Alternet to give press to serious debate and commentary?

OK, some facts:

Rapture as a word and concept does not appear in the Bible or any concordance.

Presbyterian, Rev. Irving, in Scotland, was kicked out of the church for preaching made up theology. He taught his flock speaking in tongues for the first time and 'listening' seriously to one's own visions or dreams as constituting serious revelation.

In 1830 one of Irving's parishoners, Margaret McDonald, a 15 year old girl on what she thought was her death bed, had a vision in what was probably a ferverish delirium.

Her's was the vision that Jesus would come not once, but twice; the first time before "Tribulation" of the people of the world at the time of end days supposedly foretold by the Book of Revelation. The 'saints, 144,000 of them, would be taken up into heaven bodily by an invisible Jesus before the judgement. Theologians call this doctrine, "pre-millenialism".

Irving is called the father of Pentacostalism. But the original Pentcostals were anti-government because they thought the end times were so near. Man's government was corrupted and would soon be replaced by Jesus' divine reign on earth. Most of these groups have been historically anti-government and avoid military and even voting. Jehova's Witness and Seventh Day Adventists are branches from the original Pentacostals.
The new threat to peace and justice is not from these groups but from new neo-con perversion of even the already apostatic 'rapture' believers. People like Rev. Hagee and Tim LaHaye (author of the Left Behind novels) have taken pre-millenialism to new and vicious extremes. They have repudiated the old line pacifist Pentacostals and endorsed nationalism, jingoism and war. Hagee can be seen on U Tube. Key in Rev. Hagee AIPAC to see him advocate nuclear attack of Iran. Also key in Hillary Clinton AIPAC to hear nearly identical rhetoric about take-no-options-off-the-table invasion of Iran. They both play up to the Israeli lobby, having sold out to the corporatist agenda. No, Hillary is not pre-millenialist; she is a professed Methodist mainliner Christian. One must read the definition of corporatist (word coined by Benito Mussolini, on Wikipedia to understand ). Rapture, as well as Hillary Clinton, have to be understood as symptoms of the new fascism.

The biggest threat to peace are the related Christian Zionists like Hagee. The Christian Zionist pre-millennialists actively plot with right wing Orthodox Jewish Zionists who both believe that if the Temple is rebuilt (the 3rd, the 2nd having been destroyed by Jews and Romans in AD 70). They believe that Jesus' 2nd coming, or the first Messiah for the Jews, will be conjured up by the rebuilding of the Temple. To do this, the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque will have to be razed. If this causes a WW III, then that is all part of the profesied Armageddon.

This Temple rebuilding is a big thing to Israelis, even their 80% agnostics, and is a major block to negotiating peace in Palestine/Israel.

Christian Zionism; look it up in Wikipedia
See also: http://www.leftbehind.com/

Forget the "Heathen's.." book. Its bubblegum. Christian Zionists and Israeli Neo-Zionists deserve a more serious book.

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