COMMENTS: 144
Is Keith Olbermann the Next Edward R. Murrow?
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Posted by: footman on Sep 25, 2007 12:12 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: A Clown
Posted by: Nugeman
» RE: A Clown
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: A Clown
Posted by: footman
» RE: A Clown
Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: A Clown
Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: A Clown
Posted by: maryfens@earthlink.net
» Edward R. Murrow and John Wayne made propaganda against communism.
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: dward R. Murrow and John Wayne made propaganda against communism.
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» Sit back and watch Keith Olberman do the NFL while the world burns. Even the Roman
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Sit back and watch Keith Olberman do the NFL while the world burns. Even the Roman
Posted by: blitzmesser
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Posted by: justaguy on Sep 25, 2007 12:45 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Nope.
Posted by: rocketman
» RE: Nope.
Posted by: opeluboy
» Occams Razor...
Posted by: taryn
» RE: Occams Razor...
Posted by: opeluboy
» Clustering?
Posted by: justaguy
» What the hell is the "Israeli lobby"??
Posted by: snideelf
» RE: What the hell is the "Israeli lobby"??
Posted by: opeluboy
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Posted by: vox persona on Sep 25, 2007 1:16 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Delivering the K O punch to BushCo
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Delivering the K O punch to BushCo
Posted by: Zeitgeist
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Posted by: Eat Politicians on Sep 25, 2007 1:19 AM
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Posted by: gazooks on Sep 25, 2007 2:07 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Olberman wouldn't last ten minutes in such an environment and should build his audience on cable along with Stuart and Colbert as the new news paradigm. We can read the rest online.
Network news died at the hands of the infotainment specialists under a corporate mandate of dumbing down those already stupid enough to think that they were getting something "news" worthy.
In the age of "on demand", who needs "the networks"?
F'em.
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» RE: To Hell With "Network News"
Posted by: gazooks
» RE: To Hell With "Network News"
Posted by: PollyTicks
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 25, 2007 2:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Good luck to Dan Rather in his law suit against the one-time "Tiffany Network". The man took a stand and paid a heavy price - just as Edward R. Murrow did fifty-two years earlier.What George Clooney's recent movie bio on Murrow failed to depict was the fact that his famous March 1954 broadcast that exposed the lies of Joe McCarthy was, for all intents and purposes, the beginning of the end of hia career at CBS. In 1960, bitter and frustrated, he left the industry that he and Fred Friendly literally invented and went to work for the Kennedy administration as the head of the US Information Agency. He died of lung cancer on April 27, 1965 at the age of fifty-seven.
Have the execs at Black Rock even seen the Clooney film? If they haven't, they probably should. We all should. It is a cautionary tale for our own times as well. In 1954, there was only one Joe McCarthy. Today, the congress, the White House and the main stream media are riddled with Joe McCarthys. They have hijacked our national conversation.
The best way to end this little posting of mine would be to quote Murrow himself:
"This instrument [Television] can teach, it can illuminate, yes, it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extant that human beings are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it's nothing more than lights and wires in a box."
Thank Heavens for Keith Olbermann!
Good night and good luck.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan
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» Amen & thanks for the history refresher. nm
Posted by: sunspot
» RE: It's A Bird! It's A Plane! It's Olbermann!
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: It's A Bird! It's A Plane! It's Olbermann!
Posted by: Tom Degan
» Hijacking the Conversation?
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: is America a Totalitarian State now?
Posted by: taryn
» RE: Hijacking the Conversation?
Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: It's A Bird! It's A Plane! It's Olbermann!
Posted by: desidid
» It's Olbermann!
Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: It's A Bird! It's A Plane! It's Olbermann!
Posted by: andrushka
» RE: It's A Bird! It's A Plane! It's Olbermann!
Posted by: mombot
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Posted by: Caesar77 on Sep 25, 2007 3:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Caesar77
Posted by: sunspot
» RE: Caesar77
Posted by: Luther Blissett
» RE: Caesar77
Posted by: fedupw/bush
» RE: We have no Freedoms
Posted by: Nugeman
» He HAS had death threats
Posted by: harpy
» STOP BEING AFRAID of your CORRUPT "government" or else...
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: DJPsychomike on Sep 25, 2007 3:34 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Murrow was rewarded for his role in bringing down Joe with a plum CIA assignment in Latin America. Then he he ended up in JFK's White House plotting the murder of Castro.
The CIA revealed the question no one on the left or right ever asked....I guess they were all too busy pontificating and spinning to ask- where did McCarthy get his list of names from?
Before I die I hope someone, somewhere actually reads the CIA admissions ( they call it THE CIA VS McCARTHY WARS, not the red scare or any such nonsense).
The CIA has even confessed to ruining a Senator, creating a false reality, creating propaganda here- all against their charter.
The files also reveal that most of our major news services, were set up by OSS.
This is not a major revision of the article here. I guess its only a footnote to the message of the story. But it would be nice before I die for writers to acknowledge the CIA's dirty tricks campaign, and how easily they manipulated what we call, reality.
They even have the story of what really happened- ON THEIR WEBSITE.
Can truth come before the illusions we cling to? Maybe someday. Maybe someday.......
CIA Admits It Framed McCarthy To Save It's Butt
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» RE: Please stop engaging in histories myths
Posted by: DJPsychomike
» Please identify some of these Commies that McCarthy uncovered
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» 1930's Commie Russia is today's Bushco America
Posted by: Cathyc
» Isn't George Clooney a CIA agent/apologist too?
Posted by: justaguy
» This CIA-McCarthy connection is bunk
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Please stop engaging in histories myths
Posted by: 1gma
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Posted by: jmndodge on Sep 25, 2007 4:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: rocketman on Sep 25, 2007 5:22 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Murrow was ground breaking and his analysis was thought provoking. Olbermann is not nothing more than the “left wing” copy of Shawn Hanniety, with a little comic value!.
Expressing an opinion does not necessarily give you credibility.
Our standards should be higher than this!
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» RE: Setting the bar!
Posted by: PJAW
» Me and my fine liberal friends!
Posted by: rocketman
» You haven't said anything of substance
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: You haven't said anything of substance
Posted by: rocketman
» RE: Me and my fine liberal friends!
Posted by: PJAW
» RE: Me and my fine liberal friends!
Posted by: rocketman
» RE: Taking liars to task = left wing?
Posted by: taryn
» RE: Setting the bar!
Posted by: blitzmesser
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Posted by: blondesprite on Sep 25, 2007 5:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MSNBC's Countdown program with Mr. O has become THE must watch program on television and in our household. We write him weekly and give our thanks for his courage.
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» RE: Olbermann geared toward high-schoolers
Posted by: Nugeman
» RE: Olbermann geared toward high-schoolers
Posted by: christee
» RE: The exquisite Mr. O is in a class by himself
Posted by: Basenjis
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Posted by: PJAW on Sep 25, 2007 6:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyway, as I sat watching Keith speak to the camera, I felt for the first time in nearly 40 years that what I was hearing and seeing was a direct reflection of what was fomenting in my own brain. Even more encouraging than his words, however, is the fact that there is a receptive and expnding audience for them. Who knows how long this Olbermann Era will last on television, corporate considerations being what they often are (and he is employed by a corporation after all) it could end abruptly. I hope it doesn't, because he speaks to and for an audience that seldom has such an intimate connection through the medium. And I can't help but believe that the longer he remains available, the larger that audience will grow and the more empowered it will become and perhaps this little cable news show will play a significant role in effecting some badly needed cultural change.
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» I thought
Posted by: hurricane hugo
» RE: I thought
Posted by: PJAW
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Posted by: pdxstudent on Sep 25, 2007 6:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Cable TV is a relative luxury in USA - why is that?
Posted by: Cathyc
» I Didn't Say...
Posted by: pdxstudent
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Posted by: peacelf on Sep 25, 2007 7:00 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On the other hand, Katie Couric is uninspiring, even insulting, especially when she delivers the medicine of the day, followed by pharmaceutical company ads. She is part of the white male club that controls and packages news like its the lastest gadget we should buy. Many women in power are forced to be part of the club, otherwise they would not be offered $15 million contracts. She plays by the rules.
Olbermann doesn't play by all the rules, but he is still much apart of the system he so passionately tries to distance himself from. Like all news programs, it's not what they say, but what they don't say that matters. There are certain voices that are not invited to speak on Olbermann's program, like any voice that might question how far Olbermann's politics go.
Olbermann is a neo-liberal, deeply entrenched in Billary Clinton libertarian economic politics. If he'd take a stand on single-payer universal (Medicare for all) health care and attack so called "free trade" it would make him more of a people's anchor than a lackey for weak Democrats.
peace
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» Billary Clinton libertarian economic politics?
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Billary Clinton libertarian ...Yes!
Posted by: peacelf
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Posted by: skydog on Sep 25, 2007 7:12 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And as long as he's ending every night with a Brittney or OJ or whatever distraction story is currently in vogue he'll be more an entertainer than a journalist. The opportunity cost of this frivolity is enormous.
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» I hate that too!
Posted by: sunspot
» RE: I hate that too!
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: never happen
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: never happen
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: never happen
Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: never happen
Posted by: graceof61
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Sep 25, 2007 7:13 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: BILL MOYERS IS RIGHT
Posted by: rocketman
» RE: BILL MOYERS IS RIGHT I know rocketman
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: BILL MOYERS IS RIGHT
Posted by: graceof61
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Posted by: nellie blogger on Sep 25, 2007 7:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We need news whose purpose is to reveal truth and inform the public on matters that help us be better citizens. News succeeds when it fulfills that function. Commentary is important -- but public service is the point.
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» RE: elevance is key
Posted by: Basenjis
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Posted by: cjeder on Sep 25, 2007 7:36 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As for Olbermann being the next Murrow, I am certain that he would be flattered to hear the comparison, but it is simply inappropriate. Murrow worked in a time when people listened to or watched the news and read the newspapers. His comments were contextualized within an arena of facts. Olbermann is not so lucky. He is but another sideshow in the cable news circus, providing us with the alternating comedy and tragedy that we find so enticing.
To suggest the evening news follow the cable news lead, and generate more entertainment appeal in their 'product' might sound attractive when its our guy in the anchor's chair, but what happens when the other networks catch on and place O'Rieley opposite him?
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» RE: Are you kidding?
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Are you kidding?
Posted by: Madame Defarge
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Posted by: Guster4321 on Sep 25, 2007 9:55 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Therefore, peeling back the thin red veil of objective news coverage invites a widespread increase of the practice in which the likes of Fox News so readily and publicly engages: Sending memos on what to cover and how to cover it. In an age where people still get the bulk of their news from the 'Nightly News,' whatever network on which it may air, we are inviting a conservative slant to everything. This sort of thing is very dangerous to the American Public. It could very easily be Fox News as an hour-long nightly program, feeding information to everyone.
The very topic of admitting the disappearance of objective journalism is a hot one as well. Should we? Should we not? Is it better to maintain the farce so as not to cause uproar with the demolition of the status quo? Or is the diminution of objective journalism and the recognition thereof more important to a free society?
Remember this one simple facet of the argument: Networks choose who relays information to the public. Do we really want the admission of opinionated coverage and the selection of opinionated commentators made by worldwide conservative networks?
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» Dangerous territory? Consider this:
Posted by: Coleman
» RE: Dangerous territory? Consider this:
Posted by: Guster4321
» Ask yourself this question:
Posted by: Coleman
» RE: Ask yourself this question:
Posted by: Guster4321
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Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Sep 25, 2007 11:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Remember Phil Donahue?
Posted by: Chloe2005
» RE: emember Phil Donahue?
Posted by: vox persona
» RE: emember Phil Donahue?
Posted by: graceof61
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Posted by: jedley on Sep 25, 2007 11:37 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since the author's advice to do away with phony 'objectivity' will not likely be heeded any time soon by the major networks, we can at least take solace in the fact that a lot of the people not watching the evening news on TV are getting it elsewhere.
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Posted by: StPeteRican on Sep 25, 2007 12:01 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Urgelt on Sep 25, 2007 12:23 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't mean that as a criticism of Olberman. I like his show. But he's not the new Murrow.
It hardly matters. The idea of shifting Olberman to the leaky boat that is broadcast news is a backward-looking move. Broadcast is on the way out. It will linger for a long while, gradually withering, but the future lies in the fragmented audiences which are proliferating for cable and the internet.
That trend is huge.
In the era of fragmentation, Olberman's style shines. He speaks to his own base, like O'Reilly, and is pretty much ignored outside of it, also like O'Reilly. Both speak effectively to their bases, which is the key to their successes.
This is the new journalism: it bears little resemblance to the staid Murrow age of captive national audiences, and it features showmanship which appeals to fragments only. But it's heartfelt, and that's something broadcast TV has not seen since Murrow left CBS all those years ago.
Heartfelt journalism on broadcast TV is impossible now. The networks are just too tied into the need to please advertisers. And there isn't much good news for those advertisers, either. Audiences are tanking. The only thing keeping those advertisers loyal is obsequious servitude to their interests by the networks. The last place I'd want to see Keith land is in that corrupt and dying land.
Olberman is right where he needs to be - the right place, at the right time. Through internet exposure his reach is extending. Already his influence on national thinking is superior to anything the networks call journalism.
Couric's "drug of the day" show - Cronkite journalism watered down to shameless advocacy for advertisers - is a twitching corpse. Let's not throw Keith in the coffin.
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» RE: Olbermann in Prime Time?
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Olbermann in Prime Time?
Posted by: graceof61
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Posted by: Mary Eman on Sep 25, 2007 1:15 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: lynnejane on Sep 25, 2007 1:30 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You go, KO!!
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» Keith Olbermann is not available on You Tube....
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Keith Olbermann is not available on You Tube....
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: Cathyc on Sep 25, 2007 3:50 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=uqxmPjB0WSs
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Sep 25, 2007 5:38 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
GOLDMAN SACHS GROUP INC 42,293,974 6.30 $1,409,235,213 30-Jun-07
STATE STREET CORPORATION 26,939,601 4.01 $897,627,505 30-Jun-07
Barclays Global Investors UK Holdings Ltd 21,237,777 3.16 $707,642,729 30-Jun-07
VANGUARD GROUP, INC. (THE) 19,499,694 2.90 $649,729,804 30-Jun-07
Yeah. They split from Viacom. Now they're "independent".
Viacom
FRANKLIN RESOURCES, INC 40,997,931 6.52 $1,706,743,867 30-Jun-07
MORGAN STANLEY 38,284,682 6.09 $1,593,791,311 30-Jun-07
NWQ INVESTMENT MANAGEMENT COMPANY, LLC 32,035,851 5.10 $1,333,652,477 30-Jun-07
WELLINGTON MANAGEMENT COMPANY, LLP 28,251,102 4.50 $1,176,093,376 30-Jun-07
HARRIS ASSOCIATES L.P. 26,646,806 4.24 $1,109,306,533 30-Jun-07
Barclays Global Investors UK Holdings Ltd 19,221,186 3.06 $800,177,973 30-Jun-07
VANGUARD GROUP, INC. (THE) 17,689,895 2.81 $736,430,328 30-Jun-07
STATE STREET CORPORATION 16,609,855 2.64 $691,468,263 30-Jun-07
The corporate media will always blow. It's not about ad revenue any more so much as it is about protecting the shareholders other interests:
ExxonMobil
Barclays Global Investors UK Holdings Ltd 253,686,695 4.57 $21,279,239,976 30-Jun-07
STATE STREET CORPORATION 175,171,950 3.16 $14,693,423,166 30-Jun-07
VANGUARD GROUP, INC. (THE) 163,453,936 2.95 $13,710,516,151 30-Jun-07
FMR CORPORATION (FIDELITY MANAGEMENT & RESEARCH CORP) 117,097,255 2.11 $9,822,117,749 30-Jun-07
AXA 90,424,307 1.63 $7,584,790,871 30-Jun-07
JP MORGAN CHASE & COMPANY 78,676,542 1.42 $6,599,388,342 30-Jun-07
Mellon Financial Corporation 75,793,990 1.37 $6,357,599,881 30-Jun-07
NORTHERN TRUST CORPORATION 70,864,489 1.28 $5,944,113,337 30-Jun-07
CAPITAL RESEARCH AND MANAGEMENT COMPANY 60,289,500 1.09 $5,057,083,260 30-Jun-07
WELLINGTON MANAGEMENT COMPANY, LLP 57,064,607 1.03 $4,786,579,235 30-Jun-07
Sigh... not a topic fit for discussion, thou you here a few mentions now and again. The corporate media is just a PR arm of larger interests...
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» Always relevant, thoughtcriminal
Posted by: Coleman
» RE: Ah - who owns CBS, again?
Posted by: maryfens@earthlink.net
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Posted by: noir on Sep 25, 2007 6:42 PM
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» Elitest drivel.
Posted by: Coleman
» Populist drivel.
Posted by: pdxstudent
» The only alternative to the news brought by corporations...
Posted by: gringo
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Posted by: opeluboy on Sep 25, 2007 7:01 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't hold your breath.
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» RE: Love him but...
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: Love him but...
Posted by: opeluboy
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Posted by: snideelf on Sep 25, 2007 7:18 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It brings in the ratings and that's all they care about.
NBC owners and executives all voted for Bush and the big tax-breaks for the rich.
But as far as anyone really doing anything to end the war in Iraq, Countdown is only an illusion.
It's talk and entertainment and bad-mouthing the chimpy administration that's being fobbed off as some show that really cares about the Iraq debacle.
No one is really doing anything.
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» RE: It's all show
Posted by: graceof61
» RE: Ratings? What ratings?
Posted by: Nugeman
» RE: atings? What ratings?
Posted by: fedupw/bush
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Posted by: gringo on Sep 26, 2007 1:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: If the CBS really wanted to become more popular...
Posted by: graceof61
» Is Bill O'Reilly more popular than Olderman?
Posted by: gringo
» The only time I would pay any attention to Limbag or O'Lielly
Posted by: Ellie1
» You are looking for a civil war?
Posted by: gringo
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Posted by: desidid on Sep 26, 2007 6:25 AM
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» How objective is your story?
Posted by: gringo
» RE: One of the first things
Posted by: graceof61
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Posted by: D Patrick on Sep 26, 2007 7:01 AM
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Posted by: danmaeso on Sep 26, 2007 9:36 AM
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Posted by: jilkat25 on Sep 26, 2007 2:21 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do not, however, want to see Olbermann take over the network news (although he would be a great guest anchor.) Network news executives would attempt to emasculate his commentary. Network news, though needing a sharper edge, is still the province of the "cable-challenged" and the retiree class, and therefore, must retain a certain non-bias. Brian Williams is perfect for this format. Charles Gibson is fine, as well. Katie Couric loses the time-slot because the format does not fit her personality. I, and many of my friends and relatives, lost interest in The Today Show after she left. Bob Schieffer was perfect on CBS during the transition, post-Rather. I actually try to watch the CBS Evening News, and usually start out on CBS, since I have seen many of each day's NBC reports on MSNBC during the day (I work at home and always have a news channel on.) But, poor Katie's story line-up is often not in the order I am looking to watch, such as, when there is breaking political news and CBS starts out with a story about how trans-fats are being phased out (or something like that)...I often switch back to MSNBC or CNN, anyway, since network news is so toothless. Those on Sunday morning talk shows and on afternoon cable news, Russert, Stephanopoulis, Matthews, Blitzer, etc., are forced to maintain a middle of the road objectivity (except those on Fox) while their guests are expected to argue from opposite sides.
Keep Olbermann where he is. Keep him on Sunday Football Night, too! And, I can't wait to see him throughout another election season! Also, everyone should watch his Special Comments on YuoTube or MSNBC.com/Countdown.
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» RE: WhoMe?
Posted by: dustdevil
» "corporate media whore"...
Posted by: gringo
» RE: "corporate media whore"...
Posted by: dustdevil
» Don't pat yourself on the back...
Posted by: gringo
» gringo--why do you assume so much?
Posted by: dustdevil
» Are you saying you are a classical liberal?
Posted by: gringo
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Posted by: mike_burns on Sep 30, 2007 12:03 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since Ronald Reagan, the right wing republican view point has lost it's crediblity when it can't be tested, or challenged.
I have to dismiss their views outright. That gives the left much more crediblity. To a thinking person, the Left wins by default. Their views face stronger opposition when all the news sources are right wing.
We need to bring back the free market of ideas, not ideologies.
Untill things change, we have to hype up the Obermans, and others on the left, or we will loose them to.
We'll be left with tabloid gossup and whats on sale at Wal-Mart.
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Posted by: pnut on Sep 30, 2007 2:13 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: bob t on Oct 1, 2007 1:54 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If CBS really wanted to improve their news ratings, possibly going to number one, they would do such things as Mr. Kitman wrote about.
If Katie Couric spoke truth to power she would be the number one newscaste in America, along with KO, Amy, Jon and Colbert.
Other than the right wingers, the 59 million, the rest of America actually HUNGERS for the truth, facts, real information and some factbased analysis. Instead all 'we the people' get is right wing theo-corporatocratic fascism. And based on that there is no way we can make the right or at least more correct decisions. But the right winger death agenda for profits and theocracy is all we get; and all we will ever get as I see nothing on the horizon to even hint otherwise.
The religious right actually think they are about the work of God, so their is no stopping them. They are the current iteation of the Nazis. Their training of children is a clear example of the Hitler/Nazi 'lebensborn' mentality; especially the quiverfull people.
Sig Heil must be music to the ears of the red state voters of Indiana, Texas, Florida etc, etc, etc.
Kitman and most of the posters on this forum have nearly everything, all their POVs exactly correct. The quisling trolls who spew their right wing agenda onthis forum beter wake up or America will cease to exist. But then mayhap that is exactly what they want. And thats why I don't live in Indiana and stopped going to church, years ago.
The last, nearly seven Bushie years have been a downer to behold and there is more of the same yet to come.
Bushco have eight more countries on their list of countries to be attacked, and they are doing their best to attack Russia and alienate as many countries as possible becoming very successful throughout most of Europe and the ME.
They are creating an abundance of future enemies.
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Posted by: gretavo on Oct 2, 2007 11:23 AM
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That's a fact, and a shameful one that they will never live down.
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Posted by: footman on Sep 25, 2007 12:12 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: A Clown
Posted by: Nugeman
» RE: A Clown
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: A Clown
Posted by: footman
» RE: A Clown
Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: A Clown
Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: A Clown
Posted by: maryfens@earthlink.net
» Edward R. Murrow and John Wayne made propaganda against communism.
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: dward R. Murrow and John Wayne made propaganda against communism.
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» Sit back and watch Keith Olberman do the NFL while the world burns. Even the Roman
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Sit back and watch Keith Olberman do the NFL while the world burns. Even the Roman
Posted by: blitzmesser
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Posted by: justaguy on Sep 25, 2007 12:45 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Nope.
Posted by: rocketman
» RE: Nope.
Posted by: opeluboy
» Occams Razor...
Posted by: taryn
» RE: Occams Razor...
Posted by: opeluboy
» Clustering?
Posted by: justaguy
» What the hell is the "Israeli lobby"??
Posted by: snideelf
» RE: What the hell is the "Israeli lobby"??
Posted by: opeluboy
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Posted by: vox persona on Sep 25, 2007 1:16 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Delivering the K O punch to BushCo
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Delivering the K O punch to BushCo
Posted by: Zeitgeist
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Posted by: Eat Politicians on Sep 25, 2007 1:19 AM
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Posted by: gazooks on Sep 25, 2007 2:07 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Olberman wouldn't last ten minutes in such an environment and should build his audience on cable along with Stuart and Colbert as the new news paradigm. We can read the rest online.
Network news died at the hands of the infotainment specialists under a corporate mandate of dumbing down those already stupid enough to think that they were getting something "news" worthy.
In the age of "on demand", who needs "the networks"?
F'em.
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» RE: To Hell With "Network News"
Posted by: gazooks
» RE: To Hell With "Network News"
Posted by: PollyTicks
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 25, 2007 2:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Good luck to Dan Rather in his law suit against the one-time "Tiffany Network". The man took a stand and paid a heavy price - just as Edward R. Murrow did fifty-two years earlier.What George Clooney's recent movie bio on Murrow failed to depict was the fact that his famous March 1954 broadcast that exposed the lies of Joe McCarthy was, for all intents and purposes, the beginning of the end of hia career at CBS. In 1960, bitter and frustrated, he left the industry that he and Fred Friendly literally invented and went to work for the Kennedy administration as the head of the US Information Agency. He died of lung cancer on April 27, 1965 at the age of fifty-seven.
Have the execs at Black Rock even seen the Clooney film? If they haven't, they probably should. We all should. It is a cautionary tale for our own times as well. In 1954, there was only one Joe McCarthy. Today, the congress, the White House and the main stream media are riddled with Joe McCarthys. They have hijacked our national conversation.
The best way to end this little posting of mine would be to quote Murrow himself:
"This instrument [Television] can teach, it can illuminate, yes, it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extant that human beings are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it's nothing more than lights and wires in a box."
Thank Heavens for Keith Olbermann!
Good night and good luck.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan
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» Amen & thanks for the history refresher. nm
Posted by: sunspot
» RE: It's A Bird! It's A Plane! It's Olbermann!
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: It's A Bird! It's A Plane! It's Olbermann!
Posted by: Tom Degan
» Hijacking the Conversation?
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: is America a Totalitarian State now?
Posted by: taryn
» RE: Hijacking the Conversation?
Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: It's A Bird! It's A Plane! It's Olbermann!
Posted by: desidid
» It's Olbermann!
Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: It's A Bird! It's A Plane! It's Olbermann!
Posted by: andrushka
» RE: It's A Bird! It's A Plane! It's Olbermann!
Posted by: mombot
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Posted by: Caesar77 on Sep 25, 2007 3:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Caesar77
Posted by: sunspot
» RE: Caesar77
Posted by: Luther Blissett
» RE: Caesar77
Posted by: fedupw/bush
» RE: We have no Freedoms
Posted by: Nugeman
» He HAS had death threats
Posted by: harpy
» STOP BEING AFRAID of your CORRUPT "government" or else...
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: DJPsychomike on Sep 25, 2007 3:34 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Murrow was rewarded for his role in bringing down Joe with a plum CIA assignment in Latin America. Then he he ended up in JFK's White House plotting the murder of Castro.
The CIA revealed the question no one on the left or right ever asked....I guess they were all too busy pontificating and spinning to ask- where did McCarthy get his list of names from?
Before I die I hope someone, somewhere actually reads the CIA admissions ( they call it THE CIA VS McCARTHY WARS, not the red scare or any such nonsense).
The CIA has even confessed to ruining a Senator, creating a false reality, creating propaganda here- all against their charter.
The files also reveal that most of our major news services, were set up by OSS.
This is not a major revision of the article here. I guess its only a footnote to the message of the story. But it would be nice before I die for writers to acknowledge the CIA's dirty tricks campaign, and how easily they manipulated what we call, reality.
They even have the story of what really happened- ON THEIR WEBSITE.
Can truth come before the illusions we cling to? Maybe someday. Maybe someday.......
CIA Admits It Framed McCarthy To Save It's Butt
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» RE: Please stop engaging in histories myths
Posted by: DJPsychomike
» Please identify some of these Commies that McCarthy uncovered
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» 1930's Commie Russia is today's Bushco America
Posted by: Cathyc
» Isn't George Clooney a CIA agent/apologist too?
Posted by: justaguy
» This CIA-McCarthy connection is bunk
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Please stop engaging in histories myths
Posted by: 1gma
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Posted by: jmndodge on Sep 25, 2007 4:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: rocketman on Sep 25, 2007 5:22 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Murrow was ground breaking and his analysis was thought provoking. Olbermann is not nothing more than the “left wing” copy of Shawn Hanniety, with a little comic value!.
Expressing an opinion does not necessarily give you credibility.
Our standards should be higher than this!
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» RE: Setting the bar!
Posted by: PJAW
» Me and my fine liberal friends!
Posted by: rocketman
» You haven't said anything of substance
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: You haven't said anything of substance
Posted by: rocketman
» RE: Me and my fine liberal friends!
Posted by: PJAW
» RE: Me and my fine liberal friends!
Posted by: rocketman
» RE: Taking liars to task = left wing?
Posted by: taryn
» RE: Setting the bar!
Posted by: blitzmesser
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Posted by: blondesprite on Sep 25, 2007 5:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MSNBC's Countdown program with Mr. O has become THE must watch program on television and in our household. We write him weekly and give our thanks for his courage.
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» RE: Olbermann geared toward high-schoolers
Posted by: Nugeman
» RE: Olbermann geared toward high-schoolers
Posted by: christee
» RE: The exquisite Mr. O is in a class by himself
Posted by: Basenjis
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Posted by: PJAW on Sep 25, 2007 6:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyway, as I sat watching Keith speak to the camera, I felt for the first time in nearly 40 years that what I was hearing and seeing was a direct reflection of what was fomenting in my own brain. Even more encouraging than his words, however, is the fact that there is a receptive and expnding audience for them. Who knows how long this Olbermann Era will last on television, corporate considerations being what they often are (and he is employed by a corporation after all) it could end abruptly. I hope it doesn't, because he speaks to and for an audience that seldom has such an intimate connection through the medium. And I can't help but believe that the longer he remains available, the larger that audience will grow and the more empowered it will become and perhaps this little cable news show will play a significant role in effecting some badly needed cultural change.
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» I thought
Posted by: hurricane hugo
» RE: I thought
Posted by: PJAW
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Posted by: pdxstudent on Sep 25, 2007 6:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Cable TV is a relative luxury in USA - why is that?
Posted by: Cathyc
» I Didn't Say...
Posted by: pdxstudent
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Posted by: peacelf on Sep 25, 2007 7:00 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On the other hand, Katie Couric is uninspiring, even insulting, especially when she delivers the medicine of the day, followed by pharmaceutical company ads. She is part of the white male club that controls and packages news like its the lastest gadget we should buy. Many women in power are forced to be part of the club, otherwise they would not be offered $15 million contracts. She plays by the rules.
Olbermann doesn't play by all the rules, but he is still much apart of the system he so passionately tries to distance himself from. Like all news programs, it's not what they say, but what they don't say that matters. There are certain voices that are not invited to speak on Olbermann's program, like any voice that might question how far Olbermann's politics go.
Olbermann is a neo-liberal, deeply entrenched in Billary Clinton libertarian economic politics. If he'd take a stand on single-payer universal (Medicare for all) health care and attack so called "free trade" it would make him more of a people's anchor than a lackey for weak Democrats.
peace
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» Billary Clinton libertarian economic politics?
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Billary Clinton libertarian ...Yes!
Posted by: peacelf
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Posted by: skydog on Sep 25, 2007 7:12 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And as long as he's ending every night with a Brittney or OJ or whatever distraction story is currently in vogue he'll be more an entertainer than a journalist. The opportunity cost of this frivolity is enormous.
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» I hate that too!
Posted by: sunspot
» RE: I hate that too!
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: never happen
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: never happen
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: never happen
Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: never happen
Posted by: graceof61
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Sep 25, 2007 7:13 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: BILL MOYERS IS RIGHT
Posted by: rocketman
» RE: BILL MOYERS IS RIGHT I know rocketman
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: BILL MOYERS IS RIGHT
Posted by: graceof61
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Posted by: nellie blogger on Sep 25, 2007 7:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We need news whose purpose is to reveal truth and inform the public on matters that help us be better citizens. News succeeds when it fulfills that function. Commentary is important -- but public service is the point.
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» RE: elevance is key
Posted by: Basenjis
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Posted by: cjeder on Sep 25, 2007 7:36 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As for Olbermann being the next Murrow, I am certain that he would be flattered to hear the comparison, but it is simply inappropriate. Murrow worked in a time when people listened to or watched the news and read the newspapers. His comments were contextualized within an arena of facts. Olbermann is not so lucky. He is but another sideshow in the cable news circus, providing us with the alternating comedy and tragedy that we find so enticing.
To suggest the evening news follow the cable news lead, and generate more entertainment appeal in their 'product' might sound attractive when its our guy in the anchor's chair, but what happens when the other networks catch on and place O'Rieley opposite him?
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» RE: Are you kidding?
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Are you kidding?
Posted by: Madame Defarge
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Posted by: Guster4321 on Sep 25, 2007 9:55 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Therefore, peeling back the thin red veil of objective news coverage invites a widespread increase of the practice in which the likes of Fox News so readily and publicly engages: Sending memos on what to cover and how to cover it. In an age where people still get the bulk of their news from the 'Nightly News,' whatever network on which it may air, we are inviting a conservative slant to everything. This sort of thing is very dangerous to the American Public. It could very easily be Fox News as an hour-long nightly program, feeding information to everyone.
The very topic of admitting the disappearance of objective journalism is a hot one as well. Should we? Should we not? Is it better to maintain the farce so as not to cause uproar with the demolition of the status quo? Or is the diminution of objective journalism and the recognition thereof more important to a free society?
Remember this one simple facet of the argument: Networks choose who relays information to the public. Do we really want the admission of opinionated coverage and the selection of opinionated commentators made by worldwide conservative networks?
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» Dangerous territory? Consider this:
Posted by: Coleman
» RE: Dangerous territory? Consider this:
Posted by: Guster4321
» Ask yourself this question:
Posted by: Coleman
» RE: Ask yourself this question:
Posted by: Guster4321
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Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Sep 25, 2007 11:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Remember Phil Donahue?
Posted by: Chloe2005
» RE: emember Phil Donahue?
Posted by: vox persona
» RE: emember Phil Donahue?
Posted by: graceof61
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Posted by: jedley on Sep 25, 2007 11:37 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since the author's advice to do away with phony 'objectivity' will not likely be heeded any time soon by the major networks, we can at least take solace in the fact that a lot of the people not watching the evening news on TV are getting it elsewhere.
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Posted by: StPeteRican on Sep 25, 2007 12:01 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Urgelt on Sep 25, 2007 12:23 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't mean that as a criticism of Olberman. I like his show. But he's not the new Murrow.
It hardly matters. The idea of shifting Olberman to the leaky boat that is broadcast news is a backward-looking move. Broadcast is on the way out. It will linger for a long while, gradually withering, but the future lies in the fragmented audiences which are proliferating for cable and the internet.
That trend is huge.
In the era of fragmentation, Olberman's style shines. He speaks to his own base, like O'Reilly, and is pretty much ignored outside of it, also like O'Reilly. Both speak effectively to their bases, which is the key to their successes.
This is the new journalism: it bears little resemblance to the staid Murrow age of captive national audiences, and it features showmanship which appeals to fragments only. But it's heartfelt, and that's something broadcast TV has not seen since Murrow left CBS all those years ago.
Heartfelt journalism on broadcast TV is impossible now. The networks are just too tied into the need to please advertisers. And there isn't much good news for those advertisers, either. Audiences are tanking. The only thing keeping those advertisers loyal is obsequious servitude to their interests by the networks. The last place I'd want to see Keith land is in that corrupt and dying land.
Olberman is right where he needs to be - the right place, at the right time. Through internet exposure his reach is extending. Already his influence on national thinking is superior to anything the networks call journalism.
Couric's "drug of the day" show - Cronkite journalism watered down to shameless advocacy for advertisers - is a twitching corpse. Let's not throw Keith in the coffin.
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» RE: Olbermann in Prime Time?
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Olbermann in Prime Time?
Posted by: graceof61
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Posted by: Mary Eman on Sep 25, 2007 1:15 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: lynnejane on Sep 25, 2007 1:30 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You go, KO!!
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» Keith Olbermann is not available on You Tube....
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Keith Olbermann is not available on You Tube....
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: Cathyc on Sep 25, 2007 3:50 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=uqxmPjB0WSs
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Sep 25, 2007 5:38 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
GOLDMAN SACHS GROUP INC 42,293,974 6.30 $1,409,235,213 30-Jun-07
STATE STREET CORPORATION 26,939,601 4.01 $897,627,505 30-Jun-07
Barclays Global Investors UK Holdings Ltd 21,237,777 3.16 $707,642,729 30-Jun-07
VANGUARD GROUP, INC. (THE) 19,499,694 2.90 $649,729,804 30-Jun-07
Yeah. They split from Viacom. Now they're "independent".
Viacom
FRANKLIN RESOURCES, INC 40,997,931 6.52 $1,706,743,867 30-Jun-07
MORGAN STANLEY 38,284,682 6.09 $1,593,791,311 30-Jun-07
NWQ INVESTMENT MANAGEMENT COMPANY, LLC 32,035,851 5.10 $1,333,652,477 30-Jun-07
WELLINGTON MANAGEMENT COMPANY, LLP 28,251,102 4.50 $1,176,093,376 30-Jun-07
HARRIS ASSOCIATES L.P. 26,646,806 4.24 $1,109,306,533 30-Jun-07
Barclays Global Investors UK Holdings Ltd 19,221,186 3.06 $800,177,973 30-Jun-07
VANGUARD GROUP, INC. (THE) 17,689,895 2.81 $736,430,328 30-Jun-07
STATE STREET CORPORATION 16,609,855 2.64 $691,468,263 30-Jun-07
The corporate media will always blow. It's not about ad revenue any more so much as it is about protecting the shareholders other interests:
ExxonMobil
Barclays Global Investors UK Holdings Ltd 253,686,695 4.57 $21,279,239,976 30-Jun-07
STATE STREET CORPORATION 175,171,950 3.16 $14,693,423,166 30-Jun-07
VANGUARD GROUP, INC. (THE) 163,453,936 2.95 $13,710,516,151 30-Jun-07
FMR CORPORATION (FIDELITY MANAGEMENT & RESEARCH CORP) 117,097,255 2.11 $9,822,117,749 30-Jun-07
AXA 90,424,307 1.63 $7,584,790,871 30-Jun-07
JP MORGAN CHASE & COMPANY 78,676,542 1.42 $6,599,388,342 30-Jun-07
Mellon Financial Corporation 75,793,990 1.37 $6,357,599,881 30-Jun-07
NORTHERN TRUST CORPORATION 70,864,489 1.28 $5,944,113,337 30-Jun-07
CAPITAL RESEARCH AND MANAGEMENT COMPANY 60,289,500 1.09 $5,057,083,260 30-Jun-07
WELLINGTON MANAGEMENT COMPANY, LLP 57,064,607 1.03 $4,786,579,235 30-Jun-07
Sigh... not a topic fit for discussion, thou you here a few mentions now and again. The corporate media is just a PR arm of larger interests...
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» Always relevant, thoughtcriminal
Posted by: Coleman
» RE: Ah - who owns CBS, again?
Posted by: maryfens@earthlink.net
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Posted by: noir on Sep 25, 2007 6:42 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Elitest drivel.
Posted by: Coleman
» Populist drivel.
Posted by: pdxstudent
» The only alternative to the news brought by corporations...
Posted by: gringo
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Posted by: opeluboy on Sep 25, 2007 7:01 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't hold your breath.
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» RE: Love him but...
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: Love him but...
Posted by: opeluboy
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Posted by: snideelf on Sep 25, 2007 7:18 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It brings in the ratings and that's all they care about.
NBC owners and executives all voted for Bush and the big tax-breaks for the rich.
But as far as anyone really doing anything to end the war in Iraq, Countdown is only an illusion.
It's talk and entertainment and bad-mouthing the chimpy administration that's being fobbed off as some show that really cares about the Iraq debacle.
No one is really doing anything.
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» RE: It's all show
Posted by: graceof61
» RE: Ratings? What ratings?
Posted by: Nugeman
» RE: atings? What ratings?
Posted by: fedupw/bush
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Posted by: gringo on Sep 26, 2007 1:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: If the CBS really wanted to become more popular...
Posted by: graceof61
» Is Bill O'Reilly more popular than Olderman?
Posted by: gringo
» The only time I would pay any attention to Limbag or O'Lielly
Posted by: Ellie1
» You are looking for a civil war?
Posted by: gringo
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Posted by: desidid on Sep 26, 2007 6:25 AM
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» How objective is your story?
Posted by: gringo
» RE: One of the first things
Posted by: graceof61
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Posted by: D Patrick on Sep 26, 2007 7:01 AM
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Posted by: danmaeso on Sep 26, 2007 9:36 AM
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Posted by: jilkat25 on Sep 26, 2007 2:21 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do not, however, want to see Olbermann take over the network news (although he would be a great guest anchor.) Network news executives would attempt to emasculate his commentary. Network news, though needing a sharper edge, is still the province of the "cable-challenged" and the retiree class, and therefore, must retain a certain non-bias. Brian Williams is perfect for this format. Charles Gibson is fine, as well. Katie Couric loses the time-slot because the format does not fit her personality. I, and many of my friends and relatives, lost interest in The Today Show after she left. Bob Schieffer was perfect on CBS during the transition, post-Rather. I actually try to watch the CBS Evening News, and usually start out on CBS, since I have seen many of each day's NBC reports on MSNBC during the day (I work at home and always have a news channel on.) But, poor Katie's story line-up is often not in the order I am looking to watch, such as, when there is breaking political news and CBS starts out with a story about how trans-fats are being phased out (or something like that)...I often switch back to MSNBC or CNN, anyway, since network news is so toothless. Those on Sunday morning talk shows and on afternoon cable news, Russert, Stephanopoulis, Matthews, Blitzer, etc., are forced to maintain a middle of the road objectivity (except those on Fox) while their guests are expected to argue from opposite sides.
Keep Olbermann where he is. Keep him on Sunday Football Night, too! And, I can't wait to see him throughout another election season! Also, everyone should watch his Special Comments on YuoTube or MSNBC.com/Countdown.
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» RE: WhoMe?
Posted by: dustdevil
» "corporate media whore"...
Posted by: gringo
» RE: "corporate media whore"...
Posted by: dustdevil
» Don't pat yourself on the back...
Posted by: gringo
» gringo--why do you assume so much?
Posted by: dustdevil
» Are you saying you are a classical liberal?
Posted by: gringo
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Posted by: mike_burns on Sep 30, 2007 12:03 PM
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Since Ronald Reagan, the right wing republican view point has lost it's crediblity when it can't be tested, or challenged.
I have to dismiss their views outright. That gives the left much more crediblity. To a thinking person, the Left wins by default. Their views face stronger opposition when all the news sources are right wing.
We need to bring back the free market of ideas, not ideologies.
Untill things change, we have to hype up the Obermans, and others on the left, or we will loose them to.
We'll be left with tabloid gossup and whats on sale at Wal-Mart.
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Posted by: pnut on Sep 30, 2007 2:13 PM
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Posted by: bob t on Oct 1, 2007 1:54 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If CBS really wanted to improve their news ratings, possibly going to number one, they would do such things as Mr. Kitman wrote about.
If Katie Couric spoke truth to power she would be the number one newscaste in America, along with KO, Amy, Jon and Colbert.
Other than the right wingers, the 59 million, the rest of America actually HUNGERS for the truth, facts, real information and some factbased analysis. Instead all 'we the people' get is right wing theo-corporatocratic fascism. And based on that there is no way we can make the right or at least more correct decisions. But the right winger death agenda for profits and theocracy is all we get; and all we will ever get as I see nothing on the horizon to even hint otherwise.
The religious right actually think they are about the work of God, so their is no stopping them. They are the current iteation of the Nazis. Their training of children is a clear example of the Hitler/Nazi 'lebensborn' mentality; especially the quiverfull people.
Sig Heil must be music to the ears of the red state voters of Indiana, Texas, Florida etc, etc, etc.
Kitman and most of the posters on this forum have nearly everything, all their POVs exactly correct. The quisling trolls who spew their right wing agenda onthis forum beter wake up or America will cease to exist. But then mayhap that is exactly what they want. And thats why I don't live in Indiana and stopped going to church, years ago.
The last, nearly seven Bushie years have been a downer to behold and there is more of the same yet to come.
Bushco have eight more countries on their list of countries to be attacked, and they are doing their best to attack Russia and alienate as many countries as possible becoming very successful throughout most of Europe and the ME.
They are creating an abundance of future enemies.
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Posted by: gretavo on Oct 2, 2007 11:23 AM
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That's a fact, and a shameful one that they will never live down.
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