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In the Fever Swamp of the Radical Wingnuts

By Gavin McNett, AlterNet. Posted September 26, 2007.


To truly appreciate what the sleek spinmeisters at the top of the right-wing echo chamber are saying, you've got to dig into the crazies that dwell at the bottom.
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The next time you find yourself inhabiting a quiet moment, listen closely and you'll be able to hear a clattery drone off in the distance. That's our right-wing opinion media, hammering and sawing away at another of those weird Trojan-animal contraptions they're always building -- another giant rickety thing with off-square corners and oval wheels, emblazoned with some slogan like "supporting our troops" or "defending marriage." They're planning to wheel it innocently up the hill, whereupon America will open the gates and let it in -- and you know how the story always goes from there.

It's always something new with those people. To switch metaphors abruptly, I cover what you might call the waterfront -- the dank and fishy between-realm that divides life as we know it from the vast sea of unexamined prejudices, of blind enthusiasms and angry yawpings that make up the right-wing urge in America. I write mostly about conservative pundits and bloggers, and mostly about the danker, fishier ones at medium-traffic blogs and at conservative news sites such as Townhall, WorldNetDaily, and Newsmax.

The denizens of these sites are widely read by conservatives, especially by base-type conservatives who also consume products like Rush Limbaugh's show, but they seldom reach a mainstream readership, although they'll occasionally turn up, for instance, as guests on cable news shows, identified by a caption, like "conservative columnist" or "conservative blogger," that avoids any specific claims of expertise. That's because they're mostly howling idiots.

There are two reasons that I follow them. The first is that, being idiots, they're easy to make fun of. The second reason is more practical as well as more personally salutary: Minor right-wing pundits are like what the biologists call an "indicator species": By watching how they react to their environment, you can get a good sense of what's happening in the major conservative media.

Right-wing messaging in America works very differently today than it did in the Reagan era, when the modern conservative movement was fairly new and unseasoned. The obvious change is that it's become more opaque and top-down, more rigorously focused and spin-controlled. But there's also been a more substantive shift in that conservatism since Reagan has learned not to admit to the public what its real policies are.

Rather than, for instance, arguing for the elimination of New Deal social programs, today's message machine will slap together rickety claims of a Social Security crisis and have its yawpers run around scaring people, offering as the cure a "saving Social Security" plan that coincidentally means privatization. Rather than arguing, in time-honored GOP fashion, that the wealthy should pay less taxes, conservative yawpers will run around advocating an "IRS reform" to simplify the complicated tax forms that we all hate filling out -- coincidentally by eliminating graduated tax rates. In short, conservatism now functions by fooling the public with a succession of Trojan horses -- as well as Trojan rabbits, pangolins, tapirs, and whatever other animal serves their aims (including donkeys in the case of Joe Lieberman). The hammering and sawing of their constructions is ceaseless and ever-puzzling.

You can see this in the way today's upper-tier conservative pundits ply their trade. Characters such as David Brooks, and Mike Gerson owe their success to a strange, carefully cultivated Mr. Magoo quality: Instead of coming out and saying what they're trying to say, they make bad-faith, extremist arguments as though continually by accident, making it seem as though they arrive at each new Republican policy prescription by cluelessly walking over see-sawing planks, up freight elevators and along a series of moving girders.

A wonderful example of the genre is Brooks's July 24 New York Times column, "A Realty-Based Economy," in which he strings together an astonishing chain of economic errors and cherry-picked statistics in order to decide that the Bush economy is -- if you forget partisanship and look at the facts -- perking along famously. Another is Gerson's August 17 Washington Post column, "What History Taught Karl Rove," which struggles to make it seem as though Gerson, a former Bush speechwriter and a consummate White House insider, had only just encountered Rove on Rove's way out of the White House, and was pleasantly surprised to find that his former boss was actually "the opposite of a cynical political operator" and a champion of "the little guy."

Among the many variants of this style is that of the nominally liberal columnist (such as Thomas Friedman or Richard Cohen) who finds himself continually forced by events to repeat conservative talking points and express disdain for his fellow liberals -- message: "This hurts me more than it hurts you." When executed well, this routine can be repeated weekly for an indefinite number of years. The equivalent on the moderate right was until recently epitomized by the Times op-ed columnist John Tierney, a self-identified libertarian who was largely indifferent to the subject of liberty, and instead produced a relentless stream of gee-whiz columns in which he'd happen across something new to deregulate or privatize, such as the space program or Central Park, or would learn of a new argument against environmentalism, women, global warming research, those crazy kids today, non-Republican politicians, or (just in time for the election) the idea of voting. At the end of last year, Tierney moved downstairs to the Times' science section, where his current beat, more or less, is to help champion corporate-sponsored junk science.

Such performances, of course, demand a certain indifference to the notion of truth (i.e., high-level conservative columnists often don't believe what they're saying), and a cavalier attitude toward looking like an idiot (i.e., they never expect to fool all the people, all the time). And in both respects, these pundits have a lot in common with a certain class of lawyer -- for instance, mob lawyers, who enjoy a great practical advantage from their willingness to say or do anything, fair or foul, that helps move their arguments forward. But also, in the same way, conservative pundits need to have a great deal of intelligence and situational cunning in order to stay on-message and to know what they can get away with from one column to the next. And as you move down the scale from the best-connected and highest-paid ones, through the medium players like the Charles Krauthammers and Peggy Noonans, past the Thomas Sowells and Cal Thomases, ever downward toward the pickle-barrel solons at the National Review Online and the Weekly Standard -- indeed, down through the bottom of the barrel and into the pickle-soaked dirt beneath -- the intelligence and cunning falls away in stages, and you're able to see the same conservative arguments-of-the-week made ineptly, by bozos who know very well what they're supposed to be for or against but don't have a clue how to make it seem reasonable to sane Americans.

Like the Young Republicans at the Rick Santorum rally who tried to support 2005's Strengthening Social Security plan by chanting "Hey-Hey, Ho-Ho, Social Security has got to go," it's easy to track the disinformation shell-game by watching these people, because they're essentially honest: As true-believers, they see their job as spreading the received wisdom that they get from the GOP message mains, and in contrast to slick word-splitters like Gerson, will happily take conservative arguments to their natural, but completely ridiculous conclusions. It's one thing, for instance, when Harvey Mansfield of the Harvard Department of Government appears in the Wall Street Journal editorial section trying to float the notion of a president's inherent dictatorial powers during wartime. But when Mark Noonan of Blogs For Bush gives his version of the same argument, literally advocating a return to a 13th-century model of government with George Bush as king, the Unitary Executive Theory is, in effect, prancing around on the front lawn in its underwear, with jammy hands and a Kool-Aid moustache. Having experienced Noonan, one may never again picture Harvey Mansfield with his pants on.

Another reliable failure-artist is Debbie Schlussel, a bottle-blonde, lip-glossed entity known to her detractors as the Costco Coulter. Schlussel is a Detroit-area race-baiter of the increasingly common reverse-backflip variety (i.e., a Jewish conservative who employs classic anti-Semitic narratives against Muslims) who sells herself to the cable shows as a Middle East expert in order to push right-wing scare-narratives about The International Muslim Conspiracy. (They're plotting to enslave the world by, among other things, outbreeding white people.) This has become a popular belief among right-wingers, and Schlussel has managed to carve out a niche for herself by rushing to blame spectacular crimes, disasters, or unexplained loud noises on The International Muslim, riding on the initial confusion of the event and then letting the truth sort itself out on its own time.

An apotheosis of sorts came last April, when she jumped into the middle of the developing coverage of the Virginia Tech massacre (which was committed by a Korean-American, Seung-Hui Cho), trying to claim that the word "Asian," as applied to the assailant, was a liberal-media code-word for "Paki," and that shadowy Islamofascists were somehow behind the shootings. The liberal media was, of course, willfully covering for these terrorists, as part of its well-documented plan to weaken America's resolve by broadcasting enemy propaganda -- and so on, and what-have-you.

The episode ended in high drama, with Schlussel screaming ethnic slurs in all-caps, and finally deleting the post and all its comments, claiming that she was "spending too much time monitoring the slimy comments from the Nazi-infested Media Matters for America cretins." (An updated version of the original post survives here.) You imagined her collapsing on the floorboards that night in a warm puddle of spilled Stoli, muttering against the cruel Muslim moon as a Sarah McLachlan CD skipped in the player.

It's tempting to dismiss Schlussel as a fruitcake simply because she's a fruitcake. But she's actually not even the worst fruitcake of that type (that would be the shriektastic Pam Oshry of the blog, Atlas Shrugs) -- and in fact, Schlussel's conclusions are entirely rational, given the Trojan horse that was built to sell the War on Terror. What Schlussel believes is simply what the Bush administration has been trying to make all Americans believe since 9/11: That everything changed on that day, that global Islamism is planning to take over the world, and that America is constantly threatened by terrorist enemies inside and outside its borders -- moreover, that we're in a 'generational war' against terrorism in which Iraq is the central front, and that our enemy there is mostly "the people who attacked us on 9/11" (i.e., Al Qaeda). Additionally, progress in Iraq is ongoing, and Republicans are keeping us safe from terrorism while Democrats want to capitulate to the enemy. The overall message, underneath the administration's careful qualifications and trimmings, is simple, raw fear.

Let that Trojan horse in, and what comes swarming out is not only Schlussel, but also colder, less histrionic forms of fear that are even more dangerous. Another lurker at the threshold is Charles Johnson of the major right-blog Little Green Footballs, whose mission is to search the world press every day for stories of Muslims doing or saying something angry or threatening, in order further to prove that Muslims need to be wiped from the earth before they destroy Western Civilization. Historical context is provided by Gates of Vienna, a newly-influential and thoroughly wacky site run by a character called Baron Bodissey, who proclaims a 'long war' between civilization and Islam that's been going on since the Crusades. (Perhaps a similar long war has been going on all this time between France and England, in which case the Chunnel was an incredibly stupid idea, not to mention allowing Euro Disney to be erected behind French lines.) A major player in the field of crackpot right-wing media criticism is Bob Owens, a.k.a. Confederate Yankee, whose niche is in proving, via incredibly detailed, cheese-paring arguments, that any given piece of bad news from Iraq and other Mideast hot-spots is faked, and that any given media figure or organization is secretly working for the terrorists.

Or, in other words, that if the reality in the Mideast seems uncongenial, then a new one can be researched into being in which everything Bush says is true.

Of course, this is nothing like a comprehensive sampling. But if you go across the spectrum, covering all the major conservative issues loony by loony, you start to see this ethos of fear coalesce into a cohesive and rational worldview -- one that's shared, according to these sites' readership statistics, by at least a couple of hundred thousand Americans on the internet: In order for civilization to survive, America needs to suspend the Constitution when convenient; silence the media when they say things you don't agree with; round up leftists, illegal immigrants, and especially Muslims; attack and conquer most of the Middle East, starting with Iran (perhaps with nuclear weapons); and then start dealing with North Korea and probably China and/or Europe, either by force or threat. What you get, in other words, is perpetual bloodthirsty paranoia, and an ideal of perpetual war waged by an American dictatorship.

Which is, of course, pretty appalling right there, but the most striking thing you find is the way the ethos of fear recurses, the way it feeds on itself and expands to fill all available emotional space. Perhaps the greatest of all the right-wing sub-pundits is Stu Bykofsky of the Philadelphia Inquirer, the author of the definitive wingnut text of 2007, the column that dared to say what the multitudes were thinking, but could not admit: "To Save America, We Need Another 9/11." Quod Bykofsky:

America's fabric is pulling apart like a cheap sweater. What would sew us back together? Another 9/11 attack.
The Golden Gate Bridge. Mount Rushmore. Chicago's Wrigley Field. The Philadelphia subway system. The U.S. is a target-rich environment for al Qaeda.
Is there any doubt they are planning to hit us again?
If it is to be, then let it be. It will take another attack on the homeland to quell the chattering of chipmunks and to restore America's righteous rage and singular purpose to prevail.
Amen, brother. The only thing we have to fear is ... you know, forgetting how freaking terrified we're supposed to be -- because if we do, we might stop opening the gates and rolling all those weird and shoddy wooden animals in.

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Gavin McNett writes and does graphics in the Boston area, and contributes

to the weblog, Sadly, No!

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Right wing pundits scare and amuse me at the same time
Posted by: vox persona on Sep 26, 2007 1:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been a news junkie for more years than I care to admit, but only recently (especially with the overwhelming help of Alternet posters) have I come to realize that it is corporate media I've been feeding on for so long. I mean, I always knew it but never really thought too deep about it, like probably the rest of the sheeple that assume the news we receive is real news, rather than the agenda driven managed pabulum aimed at us daily. My eyes are open now, everyone with a computer needs to log on to Alternet at least once a week, if not daily. Now when I'm watching TV, I filter all information, as well as choice of coverage through the lens of a skeptic.
Using the adage 'keep your friends close, but your enemies closer', I do monitor certain things on FauxNews, just to keep one step ahead of their talking points. This is necessary, as I am a regular contributor in the letters section of my local paper....mostly anti-war, anti-corporate/unrestrained free market capitalism, anti-Bush, anti-Republican screed. The circulation is about 50,000. My 86th one is out soon, I call them my epistolic syllogistic soliloquies. It helps to know what their rationale and party line is, so I can pre-empt them in my syllogisms.
Evidently according to my girlfriend, years ago I turned her on to BillO', which she now is addicted to. I know, you must think that is a nightmare for me, but it makes me a captive audience to help in my writing, and I just watch Olbermann's midnight repeat after she is asleep.
I cannot comment on the right wing blogs like the author does, but I can recite their talking points backwards in my sleep. I'm especially familiar with what I call the 'Republondes', namely Laura Ingraham, Ann the man Coulter, KellyAnn Fitzpatrick (now Conway), and the late Barbara Olson. They all spew the same party line like they are the same person. Now we have the O'Reilly-groomed Michelle Malkin, who is one of the scariest of all. Hannity is impossible to watch for more than a minute, and I'm sure Fixed Noise uses their motto "fair and balanced" ironically. What scares me is that there are people who take it seriously, even watch it to the exclusions of real news. That must be the 25% in Bush's pocket. As Bush would quote Lincoln, "You can fool some of the people all of the time....and that's enough".

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» I'd be glad to Lauren Posted by: vox persona
» RE: I'd be glad to Lauren Posted by: Intellect
» RE: I'd be glad to Lauren Posted by: Crazy H
» Clarification Posted by: vox persona
» lol Posted by: Iconoclast421
2.4
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Sep 26, 2007 2:40 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This could have been a good article which gets inside the heads of wing-nuts and gives a glimpse into their view of the world. It might have gone into profiling, demographics, psychology, etc.

Instead, we get a bunch of self-indulgent ranting and name-calling with no flow or structure. What a disappointment, and a waste of time.

Hopefully, the comments will be better.

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» RE: 2.4 Posted by: Gavin McNett
» RE:Bob Altemeyer Posted by: AsteroidMiner
» Thanks Posted by: kepstein7777
» RE: 2.4 Posted by: Lauren
For me it's sondraK who tops the list
Posted by: bulbman on Sep 26, 2007 3:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I stopped visiting the wingnut blogosphere because my blood pressure would go through the roof. But the top of the dungheap has to be sondraK, wingnut Amazon supreme whose blog, "knowledge is power" seems to attract some of the most execrable elements of the far right by mixing a female biker's sexual sensibility with gun lust and Coulter-ish invective. Before she prohibited non-member comments, I got into it with with them for about a week a few years ago. I ended up getting blog-bombed on my own blog and was named "liberal asshole of the year" by one of her drones.

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What the heck?
Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 26, 2007 5:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What I would love to know is how many people walking the streets of this once-great nation actually believe this right wing nonsense? I know an awful lot of right-of-center Republicans and - other than my cherished, childhood friend, Tim Finkle (Hiya, pal!) - they all seem like perfectly reasonble people. Can there be any doubt in the world that America is now in the grips of some seriously dangerous, unstable nit wits?

Thirty five years ago, the Nixon Gang seemed to a lot of people (myself included) the ultimate in political deviousness. When placed in juxtaposition with the litany of crimes that have been committed by the Bush Mob, they're starting to look like the freaking Founding Fathers! I used to think that it couldn't possibly get any worse than Tricky Dick; then along came Reagan - and then along came Bush 43!!! I'm not going to fool myself again by convincing myself that by electing King George II we've hit rock bottom.

The "wing nuts" will soon, I believe, be gone from national view. They know damned good and well that their national swan song is about to be sung and they're getting desperate. That is the reason they're now sounding more shrill and crazy than ever before. But here is a fact that must be conceded: They're great entertainment, are they not?

Peace.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan

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» RE: What the heck? Posted by: Spock
» RE: What the heck? Posted by: Lauren
» RE: What the heck? Posted by: vomeggido
» Ouch! Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: What the heck? Posted by: rocketman
» RE: What the heck? Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: What the heck? Posted by: rocketman
» RE: What the heck? Posted by: Intellect
Granted, there are right-wing loonies. Here's the real question, tho -
Posted by: smendler on Sep 26, 2007 6:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How does one reach out effectively to folks who haven't, as they say, swallowed the Kool-Aid yet, but might be raising the glass to their lips? I'm not sure that the mutual slander game wins any converts. The rightwingers can find just as many examples of lunacy over on our side of the fence - and just as we relish slamming their entire point of view based on the excesses of their crazies, they delight in painting us all with one big broad brush as well. The result is a large swath of the American populace that writes off the entire political enterprise as little more than a food fight in an asylum.

So I'm curious to know how one counters the Coulters without resorting to the same level of discourse. As the saying goes, "Never wrestle with a pig - you both get muddy, but the pig likes it that way."

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» Noam Chomsky Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Noam Chomsky Posted by: somegirl
» RE: Noam Chomsky Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Noam Chomsky Posted by: Humor Me
PEOPLE DON'T STAY STUPID FOREVER
Posted by: Roverton on Sep 26, 2007 6:48 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Though the MSM is not reporting it, Americans are waking up in HUGE numbers. Certain broadcasting companies have to LIE about their numbers.

HUGE surprise?

We think not.

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Unexplained loud noises not caused by Muslims
Posted by: VannaLaRoche on Sep 26, 2007 7:32 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A reliable source who wishes to remain confidential has informed me that ULNs are caused by two Communists that Jimmy Carter put in the State Department 30 years ago. That's all I can say for now.

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Lost me.
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Sep 26, 2007 8:22 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, let me get this straight:

There are 300M people in this country.

Some of them have some ideas that are a tad kooky.

And they have interwibble access?

Ok, I agree. Sometimes, though, in Defeating The Arch Enemy in what has come to resemble more a sporting event than a thoughtful discourse on national policy, we throw the baby out with the bath water. My favorite example in this otherwise decent-enough piece lamenting megaphone distribution among fools:

Rather than, for instance, arguing for the elimination of New Deal social programs, today's message machine will slap together rickety claims of a Social Security crisis and have its yawpers run around scaring people, offering as the cure a "saving Social Security" plan that coincidentally means privatization.

Actually, the math* predicting the folly of embracing the status quo with regard to our largest unfunded liabilities ("social security" and medicare) is on fairly solid ground. Clinton I tried to open up a dialogue, but with a fiscally conservative Congress he got nowhere fast. Bush II tried to revive the discourse, but he really doesn't merit being taken seriously with regard to any fiscal policy, and the issues he does need to be taken seriously on are limited to his proclivities towards lethally (to other people) bad lapses in judgment.

The assumption--because Bush is a bad president, and because Bush says social security is broken--that we can put our heads in the sand (or *cough, cough* ^^ elsewhere) and remain indefinitely in bliss is just fine...

...if you're only out for a political field goal, or if you've done the math* and have determined you'll shimmy off this mortal coil having reaped more in benefits than you've paid in, I suppose.

That assumes that the privilege of social security payments that congress gives to older Americans remains stable (I doubt it will) and they don't change it to a need-based system along the lines of food stamps or welfare assistance (which becomes more and more likely the longer demonstrable progress on addressing these unfunded liabilities is delayed, in my opinion). For those of us who are still alive, or give a tin poopy about fixing the dirty little secret that we predicate retirement benefits on a national Ponzii scheme for future generations, these issues merit a more thorough discussion than dismissal based on their subjective "rickety-ness" by folks who are worried primarily about The Other Side's Defence.

These fiscal issues would be helped (not fixed, but helped), for starters, by stopping the practice of trading a few billion dollars a week in Iraq for multinational corpses, a stronger Iran, an emboldened Al Queda, and a grossly aggravated budget deficit.

Kucinich or Paul anyone? If we're going to have Superbowls instead of elections, could we at least root for some people who will work on problems to get into the playoffs?

*sometimes called an Unfair Advantage/Privilege, esp amongst the bloggo'fear.

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» RE: Lost me. Posted by: Gavin McNett
» Well, you have a point. Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Lost me. Posted by: Lauren
BASICALLY,
Posted by: Constitutionalist75 on Sep 26, 2007 9:44 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the right wing of the Republican Party and their fundamntalist Christian supporters represent corporate fascism the dictatorship of company boards of directors supported by the dictatorship of George Bush and his mentor Dick Cheney. Under this growing tyranny, no citizen has any legal rights the dictatorship is bound to respect, the Constitution having been nullified by their corrupted "war on terror"

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» RE: BASICALLY, Posted by: Lauren
The real danger is that the right will be discredited
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Sep 26, 2007 9:57 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We need both the right and the left if we're going to get out of the economic mess that we're in. Remember that the left has it's own crazy ideas. It was the Greenspan Fed that got us into the economic mess we're in, and both Republicans and Democrats supported "easy Al" and his snake oil economic nostrums.

In the 1930s the dominant party, the Republicans, became the minority party. That's about to repeat itself, except that in 1932, the Republican President Hoover was a capable, intelligent administrator that was overwhelmed by events. Even so, the name "Hoover" was enough for the Dems to run against for the next 20 years.

Bush is an incompetent fool that had to steal 2 elections to stay in office. The Dems need to do nothing more than to run against Bush for another generation or beyond without producing anything new of any substance. Not good.

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perhaps you could refer us
Posted by: Thucy on Sep 26, 2007 10:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
to a website or blog that tracks the etiology of the most persistent and troublesome examples of right wing group-think, along with information and suggestions on how to counter them. I was impressed with Smendler's question above on how to approach people who have obviously been exposed to these delusons, but are still at least somewhat willing to debate. I wouldn't bother with the Coulter-clones, but there are some people out there who buy this stuff, or are on the verge of swallowing the Kool-aid, because they haven't seen it subjected to any sort of real challenge.

For instance-one thing I've noticed in some of my dust-ups with right wingers in more or less open forums is how often particular phrases are repeated by presumably different people. Now and then I've been able to track down the source. Just recently I ran into several folks using the phrase "useful idiots" and "neomarxists" to describe everything and everybody from gay rights to antiwar activists to liberal Democrats. I assumed that "useful idiots" was from Lenin or Trotsky (can't remember which) but after a while it became clear that these folks were oblivious to either, and were instead quoting a group of fairly bizarre videos of an interview with some alleged "KGB defecter" named Bezmenov. I found a bunch of these on YouTube, and they'd be laughable if so many people obviously didn't take this stuff seriously. Did you know that the KGB was involved with the western infatuation with yoga and meditation? That the Beatles were used by the KGB to corrupt American youth? That the KGB had infiltrated the gay rights movement -- in fact was largely behind the gay rights movement -- in order to undermine the foundation of American moral strength? Setting aside of course the traditional hostility of the Old Left and the CPUSA to gay rights, and the out and out repression of gays in the USSR, the KGB saw gay rights activists as "useful idiots"--a phrase Bezmenov repeats ad nauseum -- and which turns out to be a dead give away that the people using it are "Bezmenoids." Anyway, my point is that once one can identify the source of this BS, it becomes very much easier to undermine it. I mean, only the most hardcore wingnut will buy a direct connection between yoga, Mia Farrow, the Beatles, Stonewall, and the KGB.

Anyway, if someone could recommend one or more websites doing this sort of debunking, it would most appreciated.

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» RE: perhaps you could refer us Posted by: Gavin McNett
Oregon De ja vu
Posted by: Kitty Lady Oregon on Sep 26, 2007 10:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Oregon legislature passed a civil union bill last year and it was signed by the governor.
The right wing nuts had already been successful in scaring a majority in 2004 to pass a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage.
Now they are trying to get signatures to put the civil union law on the ballot. Because of this, the law is on hold until January, 2008. I wish they would just sit down and shut up. Enough already!

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» Problem?? Posted by: gellero
» RE: Problem?? Posted by: Intellect
There are so many!
Posted by: dkm on Sep 26, 2007 11:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A few weeks back I saw a video of an Argentine comedian talking about political personages. He started out by saying that there was only one thing that his grandmother feared, pendejos (assholes), because there are so many of them. Then he goes on to categorize the different types of pendejos with examples.

Every time I get into a message board that has been overrun with pendejos, I fear more and more for the future of our country because it seems that there are so many of them. If you want to see an example, go to the WaPo messages when anything related to undocumented immigrants or crime is under discussion. What this article makes clear is that there are in fact too many pendejos in our country and it is their support that has allowed Bush and his minions to destroy our country.

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I Just Can't Tolerate Any Of It
Posted by: BlackbirdHighway on Sep 26, 2007 11:15 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I long ago reached the point where all of the Bushies just totally wig me out. I called up the WashPo the day they had Coulter in there and canceled my subscription. I used the cable box's "locks & limits" feature to lock out Fox News, all the religious channels, and a bunch of others that I find offensively Bushie. Won't go near a televised Bush speech.

In traffic I tend to cut off people with Bush stickers, just so I don't have to folowo them. I wouldn't even read HuffPo for two weeks after I saw Coulter's ugly face there.

Ideally, I just want to be able to believe that the Bushies don't exist, never existed. Anything short of that is, I feel, a threat to my tenuous hold on sanity. Maybe I should move to California.

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» RE: I Just Can't Tolerate Any Of It Posted by: Constitutionalist75
The key quote:
Posted by: american on Sep 26, 2007 12:45 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article: “But there's also been a more substantive shift in that conservatism since Reagan has learned not to admit to the public what its real policies are."

Logic dictates that if someone is not giving you something straight, it is not something you want to hear…either that or it does not make any sense.

I think this goes for both "liberals" and "conservatives." (I utterly reject the notion that only two types of people exist vis-à-vis politics and economics. Indeed these are the twin rails in contemporary American dialogue that have helped considerably in driving this country off a cliff. You don't want to hear from the middle? Take it away...)

This makes American "conservatives," who are losing under this system the biggest tools on the planet and it makes the progressives the biggest losers.

The "conservatives" are being used to vault a corporate world agenda that trashes American traditions (farms, families, food, freedom...just a few examples under the heading "F").

The "liberals" are losing even though they have logic, economic history, history in general, the Constitution, 20th century moral and ethical theory, successful contemporary European social democracy and popular desire (opinion polls) on their side. They also have two of the most American of ideals on their side: independence and freedom: Independence, because it is the conservatives who are trying to tell people what to think; progressives attempt to tell people what they should do (like, "it would be unwise to kill off that species of fish to extinction"), but not what they should think. Freedom, because the "war on terror" is a completely false one -- it directly abrogates the constitution to ostensibly attack that which is not real in order to save what it is ostensibly fighting for. Isn't it ironic that they "elite" who are trying to "save us" are kicking the ball in the wrong goal? The worst of it ,yet, is that the "elites" are well-enough versed in irony, strategy, and politics to know that, yes, this is what IS happening. To add more irony, all regular Americans want to do is believe this ISN'T happening. Everyone knows they have lost some level of protection under the constitution. Everyone knows that in no way shape of form are we better off than we were before Bush was proclaimed in to office.

This assault on everyone else by the few who control everything is so patently obvious that it goes beyond absurd that what is happening is happening in, of all countries, America. It is a tyranny of the minority on a grand scale in the most outlandish and obsequious way, and all you have to do is scratch the surface a micrometer to see how grandly you, your quality of life and your ideals are being totally screwed.

The crimes that have been committed against this country are of the highest form of treason. The plutocrats encourage us to squabble while they run off with our dignity, our rights and our treasure, while they proclaim all the while love, concern, and responsibility. America, I don’t know if you were waiting to hear it from me, but the time for taking this to the streets is well nigh past.

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» RE: The key quote: Posted by: Lauren
some more inclusions
Posted by: manderson on Sep 26, 2007 1:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You can definitely add Lars Larson from Portland, OR, as a wingnut of the Limbaugh-Savage camp. I've had people make excuses to me that they listen to him for "entertainment".

Uh-Huh.

Another realm for these kind of ideas is Science Fiction, or as it was called originally "speculative fiction" (and I'll admit to reading a lot of it in an earlier time). Along with some real literary gems, you'll find all sorts of scenarios relating the triumph of (technologically-oriented) militarism and corporatism (sometimes with mystical overtones) over various sorts of perceived hyped-up anti-technology and social justice and/or "liberal" bugbears. Fertile ground for young minds with an iconoclast bent.

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Gavin McNett
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Sep 26, 2007 2:57 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gavin McNett was doing well until he got to "illegal immigrants."
Letting in illegal immigrants is a Republican/Rich/Capitalist
theme, not a Liberal/democratic theme. Bill Clinton enforced the
laws ON EMPLOYERS much more than George Bush has.
Employers now have the problem that it takes 2 years for the
government to verify the social security number of a new hire. In
that time, the illegal has earned as much as he wants and is gone.
Of course it is on the orders of politicians that the bureaucrats
withhold the information for that long. Don't dis bureaucrats.
They only do what politicians tell them to do. Bureaucrats who
act independently end up in jail. ALL government employees
who are not politicians are bureaucrats, even the police and
firefighters.

The illegal immigrants are here, as always, as union busters.
They are here to destroy the working class and lower the working
class to peon/slave status. Gavin McNett thus reveals himself to
be just as phony as the Other wingnuts that he is debunking.
Numbers are more important than words. It is the Number of
people competing for the bottom rung that determines the wage on
the bottom rung.

I wish that the people who work for Alternet, including the
owners and bosses, would go back to school and get degrees in
science, math and engineering.

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» RE: Gavin McNett Posted by: Gavin McNett
» Degree in Science???? Posted by: gellero
Pajamas media...
Posted by: justaguy on Sep 26, 2007 9:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.....hosts many of these bottom of the barrell wingnut blogs. CEO Roger Simon is probably a low level Mossad agent.

Notable are 2 antimuslim prozionist hate sites by 2 "therapists" Dr Sanity (ho ho ho) and Neo-neocon.

I've wondered how these two manage to keep their practise licenses when they are so clearly insane racist whack jobs.

Someone should be reporting them to their relevant professional bodies.

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Stu Bykofsky.
Posted by: Redmos042 on Sep 26, 2007 11:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Stu Bykofsky is a columnist for the Phila. Daily News and not the Inquirer. Also, a total Right Ring wingnut he is not. He has many social liberal ideas. He is a major war hawk, that is true.

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Gavin good.
Posted by: Humor Me on Sep 27, 2007 12:21 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Go Gavin!
I not like yourself have way not so much with word(s), but you are a total nabob
Main Entry: big name
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: somebody famous
Synonyms: big star, captain of industry, celebrity, headliner, heavyweight, idol, megastar, mogul, nabob, panjandrum, person to be reckoned with, star, superstar, topliner, very important person, well-known person
by which I mean good job! Huzzah! Go Pats!

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WingNuts
Posted by: frank69 on Sep 27, 2007 4:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is it any wonder these people are called WingNuts? No, because they are wingy and they are nuts!

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