COMMENTS: 131
The Entertainment Industry's Love Affair With Immature Men
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No, not Michael Vick. Though the Falcon quarterback's explanation for dog fighting -- "I need to grow up" -- does show just how ubiquitous the Peter Pan excuse has become. Male leads in recent popular TV shows and movies are increasingly portrayed as victims of their own immaturity. If only instead of claiming he had found Jesus, Vick had said he'd found some fantastically attractive and accomplished woman, perhaps the viewing audience would've gone along. In today's romantic comedy scripts, the man-child always meets his Wendy. Only through the innate, successful, high-achieving grace of a female may our hero be saved.
Taken one at a time, it's easy to pass off this trend as a simple, comedic trope. But considering the storyline's popularity and how it is affecting gender relations at large, this narrative is worthy of closer attention.
Pairing a bumbling, oddly employed male lead with a hot can-do woman is the current rage in Hollywood. The Ben Stillers and Adam Sandlers gradually brought it to the big screen, but this summer Judd Apatow seems to have elevated the trope to a new level of success. First there was the June release of Knocked Up, a film that matched a successful TV interviewer to a man whose primary working relationship was with his bong. Then, teen couples in the August hit SuperBad were too young to mismatch careers, but unless porn consumption counts as extracurricular credit, their college tracks were assuredly divergent. September will bring us The Brothers Solomon, about a pair of socially awkward siblings' efforts to spread their seed, as well as Good Luck Chuck and Run, Fatboy, Run, which, as their titles hint, only further the trend.
TV echoes what the New Yorker's David Denby calls the "slacker-striver" dynamic. Promos for the new NBC comedy "Chuck" pan from a svelte blond spy to a disheveled computer techie earning, a low voice intones, "Eleven bucks an hour." In HBO's The Flight of the Conchords, one of the parody folk singers is unemployed. The other holds signs. Both get dates. And if the men and women are all similarly employed, as in Scrubs or The Office, when it comes down to it, the women tend to wear the proverbial pants.
Commentators have found as many reasons for the phenomenon as there are examples of it. It's because white males are safe targets of ridicule. It's the work of feminist critiques of the '50s passive homemakers. Some think it sanctions the infantilism of male culture. Others think it's simply a reflection of changing economics, that, A, advertisers are aiming for women, the primary spenders of many households' discretionary incomes and, B, because women are achieving new levels of occupational success. Females outnumber men in most colleges, and while nationwide incomes still aren't equal, younger women in cities like New York are now earning more per hour than their male counterparts. As put forward by books like Alpha Girls, the casting of women as confident high-achievers isn't so much a sitcom cliché as it is a cultural truth.
No matter its source, the archetype of the superwoman is a surely an improvement over the pre-Mary Tyler Moore moms, beer babes and cop-show rape victims. These women are smart and capable, and striving in enviable jobs. Perhaps they should even be flattered to play savior to the opposite sex. But for as potentially insulting to men and empowering to women, a look at the credits should give one pause.
A sampling of the genre's writers' first names: Steve, Bob, Judd, Seth, Evan, Jeremy, Jay, Mike, Tom, Thomas, Matt, Nick, Josh, George, Chris, Michael, Josh, Peter, Sean ... not even an ambiguous Sam in the bunch. Women fair a little better in television comedies. Of the eleven writers credited for The Office, two are women. One of the five producers of "Chuck" is female. Still. While men are certainly capable of creating fair representations of the sexes, the dearth of these scripts' women writers begs the question of who this narrative actually benefits.
In his New Yorker piece, Denby argues that "the perilous new direction of the slacker-striver genre reduces the role of women to vehicles. Their only real function is to make the men grow up ... They don't have to dress for dinner, but they should challenge the men intellectually and spiritually, rather than simply offering their bodies as a way of dragging the clods out of their adolescent stupor."
This type of one-dimensionality bears many dangers. For one, the sort of playful exasperation with which these women tolerate their mate's boyhood antics makes light of their own needs. They act as if women are only too happy to play mother to lovers and children alike.
This narrative also ignores the fact that aging is a shared experience. Knocked Up depicts one women's inability to get into a night club because she's too old. But, in general, shows like this act as if women march unflinching toward responsibility, immune to the terrors of responsibility themselves. It also perpetrates some of the larger ageist tendencies in our culture. Women enjoying youthful pastimes in their later 30s and 40s are often portrayed as cougars or desperately sad. Men grow up. Women just get older.
Fact is, as long as women are not playing the leads, their parts will be more caricature than character. The less you know of someone, the easier they are to idealize or demonize. The trick is realizing the former is just as unfair as the later.
As an interesting contrast to these superwomen plots, one only need watch the one show actually written, produced and acted by a woman. On 30 Rock, Tina Fey, the first female head writer of Saturday Night, plays Liz Lemon, the head writer of a fictional sketch comedy show The Girlie Show. While she has a high-powered job and is accountable for a cast of less-than-mature men, she hardly has her shit together.
A monologue from last season had Lemon venting to a potential love interest: "I have been sexually rejected by not one but two guys who went to clown college. I get supernervous whenever I hear a vacuum cleaner, because when I was a kid my mom used to turn on the vacuum to drown out the sound of her and my dad fighting. Which is why I rarely vacuum my apartment. Like, never. I have had three doughnuts so far today. Once in college, I pooped my pants, a little bit, at a country steaks all-you-can-eat buffet. And I didn't leave until I finished my second plate of shrimp. A couple months ago, I went on a date with my cousin. Wow, I am a mess ... And I lied. I have had five doughnuts today."
A recent article in Bitch magazine argued that Lemon's "hilarious incompetence" is a cop-out to sexist stereotypes, but in today's comedic culture, I would disagree. Fey's character often baby-sits her co-workers, but she never feigns pleasure at it. She dates losers, but when they are caught on Catch-the-Predator shows, she breaks up with them and does not take them back. She worries about her caloric intake, but she plays it such that it's part of her neurosis, not her strength. At a fabulous party, she orders "pinot grigio: Is that OK?" In short, she's flawed. She's human. What's more feminist than that?
Also, compared to most sitcom mockups, in 30 Rock, male buffoonery is never confused with political impotence. Her boss, Jack Donaghy, as played by Alec Baldwin, is a mama's boy. That doesn't mean his power is never soft-pedaled. "I wasn't going to fire you," he scoffed at a subordinate last season, "I just wanted to remind you I could."
Fact is, for all the so-called alpha girls flooding the workplace, we're still looking at an 84 percent male Congress. For as much as women wield power in romantic comedies, in 2006, only 15 percent of all directors, executive producers, producers, writers, cinematographers and editors of the top 250 domestic grossing films were women. That's less than it was in 1998.
It's nice that the media has such confidence in women when they are scripting their female love interests and casting their doc dramas. Maybe it even will influence public perception on what they are capable of. But until more women start making the media themselves, it's hard to imagine characters of either sex will be allowed to truly grow up.
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Posted by: ender on Sep 13, 2007 1:13 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We don't have an immediate external crisis to galvanize us to become men.
PC has gone too far shunning - even outlawing - a lot of male behavior. In many instances, we aren't allowed to be men.
Most boys are growing up without a male role model. And kids today are growing up as weenies thanks to ridiculously over-safe rules & parents. There's some lessons in life that people, men especially, will only learn the hard way: sometimes you've gotta let your kids get a little burn from a hot stove.
Modern education serves to weed out creativity, independence & responsibility and instead urges conformity and obedience. Children are perpetually infantilized and critical thinking - adult thinking - is absolutely discouraged.
Men are unable to leave the nest at 18 - a generation ago, folks were buying houses at 20, 22 years old. Young people don't live with their parents because they want to, but because they have to, because economics forces them to. It's difficult to be a man or to grow up when you're living under someone else's roof.
The options for men over the last thirty years has shrunk, along with their pay and overall status in society, while women's choices have expanded.
Finally, the average man today cannot make enough money to be the sole provider for his wife and family and that's as emasculating as life can get...surely there's some psychological consequence to all of this?
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» Some good points
Posted by: kepstein7777
» RE: Some good points
Posted by: ender
» Painful experiences can be valuable...
Posted by: kepstein7777
» RE: Painful experiences can be valuable...
Posted by: ender
» RE: Painful experiences can be valuable...
Posted by: Jordonquits
» RE: Stop whining!!!!!!!!!! Please!
Posted by: greentime
» RE: Stop whining!!!!!!!!!! Please!
Posted by: MAD
» RE: Stop whining!!!!!!!!!! Please!
Posted by: ender
» RE: Stop whining!!!!!!!!!! Please!
Posted by: ender
» RE: Stop whining!!!!!!!!!! Please!
Posted by: Jordonquits
» RE: Stern
Posted by: mandiwrite
» RE: Stern - nice comment! Emphasis on evolved!
Posted by: greentime
» RE: Stern - nice comment! Emphasis on evolved!
Posted by: ender
» RE: Stern
Posted by: ender
» ...surely there's some psychological consequence to all of this?
Posted by: pdxstudent
» actually we do
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: actually we do
Posted by: PopRox80
» RE: actually we do
Posted by: mviscid
» RE: actually we do
Posted by: mviscid
» RE: actually we do
Posted by: ender
» RE: First Points right on!!
Posted by: Scott
» RE: Stern
Posted by: hiryuu75
» RE: Stern
Posted by: ender
» RE: Stern
Posted by: hiryuu75
» RE: Stern
Posted by: ender
» RE: Stern
Posted by: Shey
» RE: Stern
Posted by: ender
» RE: Stern: Yes ender, there are consequences, way to many men vote for rethugs!
Posted by: johngary66
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Sep 13, 2007 4:27 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. Formulas like Ralph and Alice, Dumb and Dumber, etc. have been around forever because they're funny if they're done right. I hope they don't go away for the sake of PCness, but I wouldn't mind some new ideas, as long as they're funny and not PC.
2. Something is either funny or it's not. It has to reflect a reality we can identify with, not an idealized world where all men are tidy, sensitive, thoughtful, responsible, and love helping their wives pick out curtains. You can't mix PCness and comedy, unless you're making fun of PCness...which is why the Cigar Indian episode of Seinfeld is one of the all-time classics...Then again, a comedy about a man who is tidy, sensitive, thoughtful, responsible, and loves picking out curtains might work if it's funny. It kind of worked for Felix on the Odd Couple, and Will on Will and Grace.
3. Having more women in creative and decisionmaking positions in the sit-com biz might be our only hope since, for all practical purposes, the sitcom is almost dead. But if they think a bunch of cutesy, nitpicky, relationship-obsessed crap like Sex in The City or the Gilmore Girls is going to save the sit-com, then the sit-com is dead. They'll need to come up with something new and different and something we can all relate to. Good luck, ladies.
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» RE: 3.9
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: 3.9
Posted by: monkeybrig
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Posted by: greentime on Sep 13, 2007 4:40 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is time to broaden the process at the top and at the beginning. The time any of us spend watching various media is too important to waste it on thin and vaccuous stories about predominately male fantasy versions of how life can be. It isn't creating a positive, educated, flexible culture. That only happens when everyone can contribute. It is SO very tired. All of it.
Cheap jokes and tawdry ideas not to mention excessive violence is leaving us with a thin culture that is... well... cheap, tawdry and violent.
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Posted by: douglashoyt on Sep 13, 2007 5:35 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even Josh Holland is a star with Alternet.
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» RE: Why bother, then? Another comment on another apparently unavoidable article
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» Would you mind translating this into English?
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Why bother, then? Another comment on another apparently unavoidable article
Posted by: YogiBear
» Not necessarily...
Posted by: kepstein7777
» I wish it were puzzling, but it's not
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: I wish it were puzzling, but it's not
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Another meandering imitation of journalism
Posted by: ray burchard
» RE: Another meandering imitation of journalism
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Another meandering imitation of journalism
Posted by: ray burchard
» RE: Another meandering imitation of journalism
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Another meandering imitation of journalism
Posted by: ray burchard
» RE: Another meandering imitation of journalism
Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» Don't worry Josh, were in the twilight zone now! Da da da .........
Posted by: johngary66
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Posted by: yale on Sep 13, 2007 5:34 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: How true it all is!
Posted by: MAD
» RE: How true it all is!
Posted by: Fade
» RE: How true it all is!
Posted by: MartianBachelor
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Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 13, 2007 6:55 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The liberals should DUMP the Hollywood elite and return to Middle America.
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» RE: The liberals should DUMP the Hollywood elite and return to Middle America.
Posted by: madmac10
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Posted by: eosrk on Sep 13, 2007 7:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Spider-man movies for the most part break even in the first two to three weeks, where as Micheal Moore's movies break even in one night, and on 75% less screens, not even counting on world releases.
Sounds to me Micheal Moore knows how to manage money, whereas the rest blows other's money.
Another one is Mel Gibson, spent about 30 million on the Passion of the Christ and has made over 1 billion!
Just two examples on who's really making the money, and who's fuckin' up a lot of money...other peoples money
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Posted by: lamar on Sep 13, 2007 7:20 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Women are now in positions of power and want the same thing.
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» RE: A Real Trend?
Posted by: mviscid
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Posted by: ABetterFuture on Sep 13, 2007 8:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As in most other facets of life, changing one's preferences and behaviors when dissatisfied is the surest way to change one's state of satisfaction.
Best of luck in such endeavors.
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Posted by: Petros on Sep 13, 2007 8:57 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: What a Joke
Posted by: mviscid
» RE: What a Joke
Posted by: Petros
» RE: What a Joke
Posted by: monkeybrig
» RE: What a Joke
Posted by: Fade
» RE: What a Joke
Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: What a Joke
Posted by: Phenix
» RE: Hardly a Joke
Posted by: Beepath
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Posted by: hagwind on Sep 13, 2007 9:08 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Logic's Edge on Sep 13, 2007 9:45 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Clearly the people that write these things are scared feces-free to portray a woman, for example, as anything less than perfect, these days.
The only safe target is men.
The majority of women and minorities probably do have a sense of humor about themselves, but there are always those among them that are willing to get offended at anything. And in the scramble to avoid offending these groups, everything is tossed out.
And so it goes. Men as children, men as losers, men as utter fools.
My solution is to just stop watching television, period.
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» RE: Yes
Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Yes, people in general like to laugh :-)
Posted by: MobileSucks
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Posted by: Ignatz deFyre on Sep 13, 2007 10:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we can assume that the majority of the male viewing audience are dorks, then it's simply a case of the medium catering to this low denominator and fuelling the dork fantasy that even a dork can get an anatomically correct and intellectually sound female.
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» RE: Giving the dorks on the glass teat what they want
Posted by: Logic's Edge
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Posted by: Fade on Sep 13, 2007 10:32 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's entertaining because it IS such pure fiction. Most of the time career minded women treat their potential mates like they treat job moves- Is this man going to increase my net worth? Women don't date beneath them, financially, it just doesn't make sense, Love be damned. And, there's always that myth that men just can't stand women who make more than them- What a crock! Guys- My fiancee' makes a bundle more than me and it's awesome. I, for one, love it. She's a rarity, but then she'd give up her job to stay home and have more kids so her career-mindedness has its limits. Most women would drag their friends away from a man who isn't in their social and economic standing. So - the goofy guy DOESN'T get the girl. Its that rich prick in the sports car that you women love to bitch about that gets the girl in the end. So can't we have our own version of Pretty Woman?
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» RE: The Goofy guy gets the Girl
Posted by: doorma
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Posted by: skydog on Sep 13, 2007 11:23 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To which I must say that in real life, even the most horrific fat-ass spandex-wearing chain-smoking gum-cracking WalMart cruising sweat hog can always get at least a pudgy slacker man. Most get an honest, hard working man who's finally given up on barnyard romance and is ready for a life of delinquent children, Budweiser, and NASCAR. I have a sneaking suspicion that the cultural impact assessed in this article has never been a subject of dinner-table discussion at their trailer.
As for the observation that the writers' first names are exclusively male, that answers my question as to why the writers about gender relationships here seem at least to be always female.
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» RE: yeah, but in real life
Posted by: hagwind
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Posted by: Roverton on Sep 13, 2007 12:05 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Life imitates guile.
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Posted by: admitchell on Sep 13, 2007 12:28 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Guys prize humour in their friends, just as girls prize a sense of humour over most other traits when selecting men. Funny guys can got the hot girl, and not just in Hollywood -- I've seened it countless times in real life. Humour takes creativity, and creativity takes spontaneity -- all traits that are perhaps a little stronger in the male species because of the way we're socialized.
So is it any surprise that slackers are funny, or that slackers would write movies and television shows that are funny? And since most writing is always a little autobiographical, is it any surprise that slacker writers always make sure their alter ego in the script gets the hot girl in the end? That's just wishful thinking, but it's also something that most men can relate to. Before the Three Stooges, it was a theme in Vaudeville, and before that it was a theme in theatre -- even Shakespeare idolized a few slackers and off-colour comedy in his plays. Read Twelfth Night if you don't believe me.
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Posted by: pdxstudent on Sep 13, 2007 12:35 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I saw the complaint once or twice in the previous comments that, essentially, "women are crazy for bitching about getting such awesome parts!" What this criticism fails to recognize is that these are not glamorous roles except in the most superficial, male-centric way.
I think the author points it out best that while the men who are typically paired with these kinds of women are buffoons, they are the narrative center and experience the most growth, even if they remain essentially buffoons. Their female partners or foils are not typically admitted this kind of three dimensionality, and in that way do not rise above any other previous ideological charicatures.
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» RE: "Super-Woman" = Ideological Charicature
Posted by: monkeybrig
» RE: "Super-Woman" = Ideological Charicature
Posted by: LeeAnnG
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Posted by: Ayla87 on Sep 13, 2007 12:41 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» I Guess People Just Haven't Figured It Out...
Posted by: pdxstudent
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Posted by: metamind on Sep 13, 2007 2:29 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nowadays women can provide for the family themselves or get money from the government if they can't. Suppose the only way you could get assistance from the government is if you found a man who would help provide for your needs?
Well, that would change things, wouldn't it?
Many women aren't interested in men, really. They'd rather have money and if the man doesn't have money ... forget him. Who needs men?
Then there is the role of the man as a "respected law-giver." This would include positions in religion and tribal structure, positions of respect and authority. The chief, the medicine man, the priest, the lawyer ... well, scratch the last one ... the respected elders of the community.
On TV older men are often depicted as buffoons or morons who couldn't find enough spare change to get on the bus if their life depended on it, like Bart Simpson's grandfather.
When was the last time you actually saw an old man on TV who played a respectable role? "On Golden Pond" comes to mind but Henry Fonda was pretty much of a mindless grouch even back then. It's just been getting worse as we progress into the future.
What is a man? How about defining a man as someone who knows "right from wrong" and can lead us in the correct direction? Well, witness George Bush and Larry Craig.
Enough said?
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» RE: What is a man in the 21st century?
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» RE: What is a man in the 21st century?
Posted by: ray burchard
» RE: What is a man in the 21st century?
Posted by: monkeybrig
» RE: What is a man in the 21st century?
Posted by: ray burchard
» RE: What is a man in the 21st century?
Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: mick3
Posted by: Logic's Edge
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Posted by: scheherezade on Sep 13, 2007 4:55 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a world of gender equality, one would expect movies to feature female characters whose appeal focuses less on physical appearance than persona and accomplishment.
Instead, the opposite appears to be happening.
Despite workplace gains for women, male-dominated media focuses more than ever on beauty-ranked definitions of female worth.
At the same time, definitions of beauty have been refined to a science, removing any guesswork from where a given women stands, valuewise – despite her workplace accomplishments.
The difference today is that male-based beauty rankings don’t determine women’s futures, including mate choice, to the extent they once did.
Nevertheless, at the same time average guys (like everybody else) are seeing increasingly fewer career possibilities – very attractive women are enjoying more opportunities than any other worker; often due to sexual interest by powerful male bosses (sorry folks, but anybody in the working world knows full well this is the case).
Thus “hot” women remain a commodity like anything else, unattainable by average slackers.
Men are always far more anxious about getting sex than women. Many surely find solace grasping the last shreds of control they still do have -- the ability to rank female worth based on beauty.
Celebrating accomplished, ‘average’ looking women won’t do, because that would hand women the last remaining ace-in-the-hole men do have control over – impossible-to-achieve-or-maintain ‘hotness’ rankings.
And that’s the last thing these guys are going to give up…regardless of how irrelevant it, and they, may eventually become.
And so comes Hollywood to the rescue: with morality theater that emphasizes a woman’s place is still in front of the mirror -- and reassures slacker movie ticket buyers that even unattainable ‘10s’ are ready, willing and able to degrade themselves with the lowliest potential mate choice.
These films aren’t about women ‘saving’ slacker males, so much as they’re about slacker males dragging what male ego, DNA, whatever, demands be defined as the most desirable women back down to a more attainable, or at least controllable, level.
Slacker films must surely represent some level of psychological backlash against an increasingly unattainable lifestyle. The question is whether current male obsession with “hotness” is related to larger consumer forces; or whether it’s just the latest iteration of DNA-grounded shallow male culture at work.
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» RE: Insecure men make shallow films
Posted by: E-from-PHIOM
» RE: Insecure men make shallow films
Posted by: scheherezade
» Bridget Jones's Diary
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» RE: Insecure men make shallow films
Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: Insecure men make shallow films
Posted by: suprmark
» RE: Insecure men make shallow films
Posted by: scheherezade
» RE: Insecure men make shallow films
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Insecure men make shallow films
Posted by: scheherezade
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Posted by: Shey on Sep 13, 2007 6:38 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
More proof that Alicia Bebensdorf is part of the problem:
"perhaps these [smart and capable women] should be flattered to play savior to the opposite sex" You've got to be kidding.
And, talk about really not getting it .... "women wield power in romantic comedies"
Taking on bumbling, socially challenged (barely socialized) beer guzzling, video game playing, porn-addicted man-children to 'save', is "wielding power"??
Romantic comedies at the theatre seem pretty hopeless right now. So where to look on your TV screens, for models of powerful women who are human and flawed being attracted to powerful men who are also human and flawed? You could start with Greys Anatomy. Created and produced by women (although every show has a number of producers .... executive, "co", etc. .... this show was created by a woman and the current show runner is a woman).
There are any number of dramas/dramadies, produced and written by both women and men, that portray both genders as seeking partners .... if they're seeking partners at all .... with whom they can share a relationship of equals. And that doesn't necessarily mean the "equality" defined by career status, earning power, etc. that is the paradigm to which pop culture and indeed, our society at large, wants to reduce us.
The kind of "equality" I'm talking about goes much deeper. It encompasses being a competent, caring, human being with a well rounded education. Which doesn't necessarily mean a "formal" education.
As for sitcoms, you have to go back to "Sex and the City" to find what I'm talking about. Four very different women with "girly" interests who often fell for the wrong men but learned from their experiences, with fully drawn male characters as well.
Before dismissing this show as a piece of fluff, remember that these four women ended up with four very different types of men. Including a blue-collar guy who was nobody's dummy for Miranda, the high-powered lawyer. Although set in affluent Manhattan, this show was all about gender equality on a level much deeper than affluence or status, a theme almost non-existent in the history of sitcoms. And no one could accuse it of being PC.
Maybe the lesson is, don't expect too much of TV, especially broadcast network and most especially, sitcoms. And just boycott the "high-powdered female hottie saves neanderthal guy" so-called romantic comedies.
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» RE: Alicia Bebensdorf doesn't get it
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Alicia Bebensdorf doesn't get it
Posted by: Shey
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Posted by: opeluboy on Sep 13, 2007 7:40 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I'm old
Posted by: jak
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Posted by: drcyflowers on Sep 13, 2007 9:37 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And what about the opposite, a loser chick who finds the perfect man to rescue her. That's been done a million times, from Cinderella, all the way to the Bridget Jones movies!
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» RE: The Cinderella complex
Posted by: MartianBachelor
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Posted by: YogiBear on Sep 13, 2007 9:47 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Ignatz deFyre on Sep 14, 2007 9:36 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Media tries to make idiots of all of us. Ignore it.
Posted by: Ambrose Pare
» RE: Media tries to make idiots of all of us. Ignore it.
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Media tries to make idiots of all of us. Ignore it.
Posted by: Shey
» RE: Media tries to make idiots of all of us. Ignore it.
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: Roverton on Sep 14, 2007 11:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: IMMATURE MALES...
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: eagleeye on Sep 15, 2007 11:56 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He is terrified of women and sees them as his master and is anxious to serve them as their slave, or to avoid them at all cost.
A neighbor at my Senior retirement center typifies American Males. He is kicked out of the house at six in the morning and has to drive to a nearby restaurant for breakfast. He has no lunch and is not allowed in the house until after sundown. He uses the toilet at the community center. No one seems to see anything out of the ordinary about this. The other women adore this wimp. It is so disgusting and so typical of there our society is heading.
Soon we'll probably be embroiled in a civil war and the women will look to these wimps for protection. Forget it women. They'll be hiding behind your skirts.
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» RE: Needing a mother
Posted by: richholland
» RE: Needing a mother
Posted by: scheherezade
» RE: Needing a mother
Posted by: YogiBear
» Your the expert.
Posted by: messedup
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Posted by: gerdhansel on Sep 17, 2007 9:51 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But lately I've noticed a trend in Hollywood: when they want to cast a "manly" man for a western or a sword-and-sandals epic, they look for an Aussie like Russell Crow, Eric Bana or Hugh Jackman. And they force said Aussies to speak with American accents.
Take the great Western that came out recently, "3:10 to Yuma." Crow and Christian Bale from the "Batman" movies (a "manly" Brit) deliver nuanced, manly performances that American actors just don't do anymore.
Who played the "manly" Obiwan in the recent "Star Wars" films? Ewan MacGregor ("manly" Scot, like the ultimate Alpha male Sean Connery). Who mentors Obiwon? Liam Neeson ("manly" irish, unlike Colin Ferrell.)
And who plays whiny b__ch? American Hayden Christensen.
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Posted by: MattyDiggs on Sep 17, 2007 11:04 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Women are VISIBLE in the industry but have little power compared to men. It's a fact. And if it makes you uncomfortable to hear a woman pointing that out, it's probably because it's true. Men should stop whining whenever a woman reminds us of this and tries to help even the scales. The civil rights movement would have gotten nowhere if whites didn't recognize their own freedom and step up to share them with others.
Thank you for the article. Well done.
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Posted by: madmac10 on Sep 17, 2007 11:38 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ha Ha!
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Posted by: messedup on Sep 18, 2007 9:16 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What was this article all about?, the Television, and hollywood??
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Posted by: ender on Sep 13, 2007 1:13 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We don't have an immediate external crisis to galvanize us to become men.
PC has gone too far shunning - even outlawing - a lot of male behavior. In many instances, we aren't allowed to be men.
Most boys are growing up without a male role model. And kids today are growing up as weenies thanks to ridiculously over-safe rules & parents. There's some lessons in life that people, men especially, will only learn the hard way: sometimes you've gotta let your kids get a little burn from a hot stove.
Modern education serves to weed out creativity, independence & responsibility and instead urges conformity and obedience. Children are perpetually infantilized and critical thinking - adult thinking - is absolutely discouraged.
Men are unable to leave the nest at 18 - a generation ago, folks were buying houses at 20, 22 years old. Young people don't live with their parents because they want to, but because they have to, because economics forces them to. It's difficult to be a man or to grow up when you're living under someone else's roof.
The options for men over the last thirty years has shrunk, along with their pay and overall status in society, while women's choices have expanded.
Finally, the average man today cannot make enough money to be the sole provider for his wife and family and that's as emasculating as life can get...surely there's some psychological consequence to all of this?
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» Some good points
Posted by: kepstein7777
» RE: Some good points
Posted by: ender
» Painful experiences can be valuable...
Posted by: kepstein7777
» RE: Painful experiences can be valuable...
Posted by: ender
» RE: Painful experiences can be valuable...
Posted by: Jordonquits
» RE: Stop whining!!!!!!!!!! Please!
Posted by: greentime
» RE: Stop whining!!!!!!!!!! Please!
Posted by: MAD
» RE: Stop whining!!!!!!!!!! Please!
Posted by: ender
» RE: Stop whining!!!!!!!!!! Please!
Posted by: ender
» RE: Stop whining!!!!!!!!!! Please!
Posted by: Jordonquits
» RE: Stern
Posted by: mandiwrite
» RE: Stern - nice comment! Emphasis on evolved!
Posted by: greentime
» RE: Stern - nice comment! Emphasis on evolved!
Posted by: ender
» RE: Stern
Posted by: ender
» ...surely there's some psychological consequence to all of this?
Posted by: pdxstudent
» actually we do
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: actually we do
Posted by: PopRox80
» RE: actually we do
Posted by: mviscid
» RE: actually we do
Posted by: mviscid
» RE: actually we do
Posted by: ender
» RE: First Points right on!!
Posted by: Scott
» RE: Stern
Posted by: hiryuu75
» RE: Stern
Posted by: ender
» RE: Stern
Posted by: hiryuu75
» RE: Stern
Posted by: ender
» RE: Stern
Posted by: Shey
» RE: Stern
Posted by: ender
» RE: Stern: Yes ender, there are consequences, way to many men vote for rethugs!
Posted by: johngary66
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Sep 13, 2007 4:27 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. Formulas like Ralph and Alice, Dumb and Dumber, etc. have been around forever because they're funny if they're done right. I hope they don't go away for the sake of PCness, but I wouldn't mind some new ideas, as long as they're funny and not PC.
2. Something is either funny or it's not. It has to reflect a reality we can identify with, not an idealized world where all men are tidy, sensitive, thoughtful, responsible, and love helping their wives pick out curtains. You can't mix PCness and comedy, unless you're making fun of PCness...which is why the Cigar Indian episode of Seinfeld is one of the all-time classics...Then again, a comedy about a man who is tidy, sensitive, thoughtful, responsible, and loves picking out curtains might work if it's funny. It kind of worked for Felix on the Odd Couple, and Will on Will and Grace.
3. Having more women in creative and decisionmaking positions in the sit-com biz might be our only hope since, for all practical purposes, the sitcom is almost dead. But if they think a bunch of cutesy, nitpicky, relationship-obsessed crap like Sex in The City or the Gilmore Girls is going to save the sit-com, then the sit-com is dead. They'll need to come up with something new and different and something we can all relate to. Good luck, ladies.
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» RE: 3.9
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: 3.9
Posted by: monkeybrig
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Posted by: greentime on Sep 13, 2007 4:40 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is time to broaden the process at the top and at the beginning. The time any of us spend watching various media is too important to waste it on thin and vaccuous stories about predominately male fantasy versions of how life can be. It isn't creating a positive, educated, flexible culture. That only happens when everyone can contribute. It is SO very tired. All of it.
Cheap jokes and tawdry ideas not to mention excessive violence is leaving us with a thin culture that is... well... cheap, tawdry and violent.
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Posted by: douglashoyt on Sep 13, 2007 5:35 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even Josh Holland is a star with Alternet.
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» RE: Why bother, then? Another comment on another apparently unavoidable article
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» Would you mind translating this into English?
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Why bother, then? Another comment on another apparently unavoidable article
Posted by: YogiBear
» Not necessarily...
Posted by: kepstein7777
» I wish it were puzzling, but it's not
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: I wish it were puzzling, but it's not
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Another meandering imitation of journalism
Posted by: ray burchard
» RE: Another meandering imitation of journalism
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Another meandering imitation of journalism
Posted by: ray burchard
» RE: Another meandering imitation of journalism
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Another meandering imitation of journalism
Posted by: ray burchard
» RE: Another meandering imitation of journalism
Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» Don't worry Josh, were in the twilight zone now! Da da da .........
Posted by: johngary66
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Posted by: yale on Sep 13, 2007 5:34 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: How true it all is!
Posted by: MAD
» RE: How true it all is!
Posted by: Fade
» RE: How true it all is!
Posted by: MartianBachelor
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Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 13, 2007 6:55 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The liberals should DUMP the Hollywood elite and return to Middle America.
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» RE: The liberals should DUMP the Hollywood elite and return to Middle America.
Posted by: madmac10
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Posted by: eosrk on Sep 13, 2007 7:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Spider-man movies for the most part break even in the first two to three weeks, where as Micheal Moore's movies break even in one night, and on 75% less screens, not even counting on world releases.
Sounds to me Micheal Moore knows how to manage money, whereas the rest blows other's money.
Another one is Mel Gibson, spent about 30 million on the Passion of the Christ and has made over 1 billion!
Just two examples on who's really making the money, and who's fuckin' up a lot of money...other peoples money
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Posted by: lamar on Sep 13, 2007 7:20 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Women are now in positions of power and want the same thing.
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» RE: A Real Trend?
Posted by: mviscid
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Posted by: ABetterFuture on Sep 13, 2007 8:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As in most other facets of life, changing one's preferences and behaviors when dissatisfied is the surest way to change one's state of satisfaction.
Best of luck in such endeavors.
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Posted by: Petros on Sep 13, 2007 8:57 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: What a Joke
Posted by: mviscid
» RE: What a Joke
Posted by: Petros
» RE: What a Joke
Posted by: monkeybrig
» RE: What a Joke
Posted by: Fade
» RE: What a Joke
Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: What a Joke
Posted by: Phenix
» RE: Hardly a Joke
Posted by: Beepath
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Posted by: hagwind on Sep 13, 2007 9:08 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Logic's Edge on Sep 13, 2007 9:45 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Clearly the people that write these things are scared feces-free to portray a woman, for example, as anything less than perfect, these days.
The only safe target is men.
The majority of women and minorities probably do have a sense of humor about themselves, but there are always those among them that are willing to get offended at anything. And in the scramble to avoid offending these groups, everything is tossed out.
And so it goes. Men as children, men as losers, men as utter fools.
My solution is to just stop watching television, period.
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» RE: Yes
Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Yes, people in general like to laugh :-)
Posted by: MobileSucks
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Posted by: Ignatz deFyre on Sep 13, 2007 10:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we can assume that the majority of the male viewing audience are dorks, then it's simply a case of the medium catering to this low denominator and fuelling the dork fantasy that even a dork can get an anatomically correct and intellectually sound female.
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» RE: Giving the dorks on the glass teat what they want
Posted by: Logic's Edge
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Posted by: Fade on Sep 13, 2007 10:32 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's entertaining because it IS such pure fiction. Most of the time career minded women treat their potential mates like they treat job moves- Is this man going to increase my net worth? Women don't date beneath them, financially, it just doesn't make sense, Love be damned. And, there's always that myth that men just can't stand women who make more than them- What a crock! Guys- My fiancee' makes a bundle more than me and it's awesome. I, for one, love it. She's a rarity, but then she'd give up her job to stay home and have more kids so her career-mindedness has its limits. Most women would drag their friends away from a man who isn't in their social and economic standing. So - the goofy guy DOESN'T get the girl. Its that rich prick in the sports car that you women love to bitch about that gets the girl in the end. So can't we have our own version of Pretty Woman?
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» RE: The Goofy guy gets the Girl
Posted by: doorma
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Posted by: skydog on Sep 13, 2007 11:23 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To which I must say that in real life, even the most horrific fat-ass spandex-wearing chain-smoking gum-cracking WalMart cruising sweat hog can always get at least a pudgy slacker man. Most get an honest, hard working man who's finally given up on barnyard romance and is ready for a life of delinquent children, Budweiser, and NASCAR. I have a sneaking suspicion that the cultural impact assessed in this article has never been a subject of dinner-table discussion at their trailer.
As for the observation that the writers' first names are exclusively male, that answers my question as to why the writers about gender relationships here seem at least to be always female.
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» RE: yeah, but in real life
Posted by: hagwind
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Posted by: Roverton on Sep 13, 2007 12:05 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Life imitates guile.
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Posted by: admitchell on Sep 13, 2007 12:28 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Guys prize humour in their friends, just as girls prize a sense of humour over most other traits when selecting men. Funny guys can got the hot girl, and not just in Hollywood -- I've seened it countless times in real life. Humour takes creativity, and creativity takes spontaneity -- all traits that are perhaps a little stronger in the male species because of the way we're socialized.
So is it any surprise that slackers are funny, or that slackers would write movies and television shows that are funny? And since most writing is always a little autobiographical, is it any surprise that slacker writers always make sure their alter ego in the script gets the hot girl in the end? That's just wishful thinking, but it's also something that most men can relate to. Before the Three Stooges, it was a theme in Vaudeville, and before that it was a theme in theatre -- even Shakespeare idolized a few slackers and off-colour comedy in his plays. Read Twelfth Night if you don't believe me.
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Posted by: pdxstudent on Sep 13, 2007 12:35 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I saw the complaint once or twice in the previous comments that, essentially, "women are crazy for bitching about getting such awesome parts!" What this criticism fails to recognize is that these are not glamorous roles except in the most superficial, male-centric way.
I think the author points it out best that while the men who are typically paired with these kinds of women are buffoons, they are the narrative center and experience the most growth, even if they remain essentially buffoons. Their female partners or foils are not typically admitted this kind of three dimensionality, and in that way do not rise above any other previous ideological charicatures.
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» RE: "Super-Woman" = Ideological Charicature
Posted by: monkeybrig
» RE: "Super-Woman" = Ideological Charicature
Posted by: LeeAnnG
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Posted by: Ayla87 on Sep 13, 2007 12:41 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» I Guess People Just Haven't Figured It Out...
Posted by: pdxstudent
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Posted by: metamind on Sep 13, 2007 2:29 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nowadays women can provide for the family themselves or get money from the government if they can't. Suppose the only way you could get assistance from the government is if you found a man who would help provide for your needs?
Well, that would change things, wouldn't it?
Many women aren't interested in men, really. They'd rather have money and if the man doesn't have money ... forget him. Who needs men?
Then there is the role of the man as a "respected law-giver." This would include positions in religion and tribal structure, positions of respect and authority. The chief, the medicine man, the priest, the lawyer ... well, scratch the last one ... the respected elders of the community.
On TV older men are often depicted as buffoons or morons who couldn't find enough spare change to get on the bus if their life depended on it, like Bart Simpson's grandfather.
When was the last time you actually saw an old man on TV who played a respectable role? "On Golden Pond" comes to mind but Henry Fonda was pretty much of a mindless grouch even back then. It's just been getting worse as we progress into the future.
What is a man? How about defining a man as someone who knows "right from wrong" and can lead us in the correct direction? Well, witness George Bush and Larry Craig.
Enough said?
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» RE: What is a man in the 21st century?
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» RE: What is a man in the 21st century?
Posted by: ray burchard
» RE: What is a man in the 21st century?
Posted by: monkeybrig
» RE: What is a man in the 21st century?
Posted by: ray burchard
» RE: What is a man in the 21st century?
Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: mick3
Posted by: Logic's Edge
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Posted by: scheherezade on Sep 13, 2007 4:55 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a world of gender equality, one would expect movies to feature female characters whose appeal focuses less on physical appearance than persona and accomplishment.
Instead, the opposite appears to be happening.
Despite workplace gains for women, male-dominated media focuses more than ever on beauty-ranked definitions of female worth.
At the same time, definitions of beauty have been refined to a science, removing any guesswork from where a given women stands, valuewise – despite her workplace accomplishments.
The difference today is that male-based beauty rankings don’t determine women’s futures, including mate choice, to the extent they once did.
Nevertheless, at the same time average guys (like everybody else) are seeing increasingly fewer career possibilities – very attractive women are enjoying more opportunities than any other worker; often due to sexual interest by powerful male bosses (sorry folks, but anybody in the working world knows full well this is the case).
Thus “hot” women remain a commodity like anything else, unattainable by average slackers.
Men are always far more anxious about getting sex than women. Many surely find solace grasping the last shreds of control they still do have -- the ability to rank female worth based on beauty.
Celebrating accomplished, ‘average’ looking women won’t do, because that would hand women the last remaining ace-in-the-hole men do have control over – impossible-to-achieve-or-maintain ‘hotness’ rankings.
And that’s the last thing these guys are going to give up…regardless of how irrelevant it, and they, may eventually become.
And so comes Hollywood to the rescue: with morality theater that emphasizes a woman’s place is still in front of the mirror -- and reassures slacker movie ticket buyers that even unattainable ‘10s’ are ready, willing and able to degrade themselves with the lowliest potential mate choice.
These films aren’t about women ‘saving’ slacker males, so much as they’re about slacker males dragging what male ego, DNA, whatever, demands be defined as the most desirable women back down to a more attainable, or at least controllable, level.
Slacker films must surely represent some level of psychological backlash against an increasingly unattainable lifestyle. The question is whether current male obsession with “hotness” is related to larger consumer forces; or whether it’s just the latest iteration of DNA-grounded shallow male culture at work.
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» RE: Insecure men make shallow films
Posted by: E-from-PHIOM
» RE: Insecure men make shallow films
Posted by: scheherezade
» Bridget Jones's Diary
Posted by: suprmark
» RE: Insecure men make shallow films
Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: Insecure men make shallow films
Posted by: suprmark
» RE: Insecure men make shallow films
Posted by: scheherezade
» RE: Insecure men make shallow films
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Insecure men make shallow films
Posted by: scheherezade
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Shey on Sep 13, 2007 6:38 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
More proof that Alicia Bebensdorf is part of the problem:
"perhaps these [smart and capable women] should be flattered to play savior to the opposite sex" You've got to be kidding.
And, talk about really not getting it .... "women wield power in romantic comedies"
Taking on bumbling, socially challenged (barely socialized) beer guzzling, video game playing, porn-addicted man-children to 'save', is "wielding power"??
Romantic comedies at the theatre seem pretty hopeless right now. So where to look on your TV screens, for models of powerful women who are human and flawed being attracted to powerful men who are also human and flawed? You could start with Greys Anatomy. Created and produced by women (although every show has a number of producers .... executive, "co", etc. .... this show was created by a woman and the current show runner is a woman).
There are any number of dramas/dramadies, produced and written by both women and men, that portray both genders as seeking partners .... if they're seeking partners at all .... with whom they can share a relationship of equals. And that doesn't necessarily mean the "equality" defined by career status, earning power, etc. that is the paradigm to which pop culture and indeed, our society at large, wants to reduce us.
The kind of "equality" I'm talking about goes much deeper. It encompasses being a competent, caring, human being with a well rounded education. Which doesn't necessarily mean a "formal" education.
As for sitcoms, you have to go back to "Sex and the City" to find what I'm talking about. Four very different women with "girly" interests who often fell for the wrong men but learned from their experiences, with fully drawn male characters as well.
Before dismissing this show as a piece of fluff, remember that these four women ended up with four very different types of men. Including a blue-collar guy who was nobody's dummy for Miranda, the high-powered lawyer. Although set in affluent Manhattan, this show was all about gender equality on a level much deeper than affluence or status, a theme almost non-existent in the history of sitcoms. And no one could accuse it of being PC.
Maybe the lesson is, don't expect too much of TV, especially broadcast network and most especially, sitcoms. And just boycott the "high-powdered female hottie saves neanderthal guy" so-called romantic comedies.
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» RE: Alicia Bebensdorf doesn't get it
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Alicia Bebensdorf doesn't get it
Posted by: Shey
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Posted by: opeluboy on Sep 13, 2007 7:40 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I'm old
Posted by: jak
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Posted by: drcyflowers on Sep 13, 2007 9:37 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And what about the opposite, a loser chick who finds the perfect man to rescue her. That's been done a million times, from Cinderella, all the way to the Bridget Jones movies!
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» RE: The Cinderella complex
Posted by: MartianBachelor
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Posted by: YogiBear on Sep 13, 2007 9:47 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Ignatz deFyre on Sep 14, 2007 9:36 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Media tries to make idiots of all of us. Ignore it.
Posted by: Ambrose Pare
» RE: Media tries to make idiots of all of us. Ignore it.
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Media tries to make idiots of all of us. Ignore it.
Posted by: Shey
» RE: Media tries to make idiots of all of us. Ignore it.
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: Roverton on Sep 14, 2007 11:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: IMMATURE MALES...
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: eagleeye on Sep 15, 2007 11:56 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He is terrified of women and sees them as his master and is anxious to serve them as their slave, or to avoid them at all cost.
A neighbor at my Senior retirement center typifies American Males. He is kicked out of the house at six in the morning and has to drive to a nearby restaurant for breakfast. He has no lunch and is not allowed in the house until after sundown. He uses the toilet at the community center. No one seems to see anything out of the ordinary about this. The other women adore this wimp. It is so disgusting and so typical of there our society is heading.
Soon we'll probably be embroiled in a civil war and the women will look to these wimps for protection. Forget it women. They'll be hiding behind your skirts.
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» RE: Needing a mother
Posted by: richholland
» RE: Needing a mother
Posted by: scheherezade
» RE: Needing a mother
Posted by: YogiBear
» Your the expert.
Posted by: messedup
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Posted by: gerdhansel on Sep 17, 2007 9:51 AM
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But lately I've noticed a trend in Hollywood: when they want to cast a "manly" man for a western or a sword-and-sandals epic, they look for an Aussie like Russell Crow, Eric Bana or Hugh Jackman. And they force said Aussies to speak with American accents.
Take the great Western that came out recently, "3:10 to Yuma." Crow and Christian Bale from the "Batman" movies (a "manly" Brit) deliver nuanced, manly performances that American actors just don't do anymore.
Who played the "manly" Obiwan in the recent "Star Wars" films? Ewan MacGregor ("manly" Scot, like the ultimate Alpha male Sean Connery). Who mentors Obiwon? Liam Neeson ("manly" irish, unlike Colin Ferrell.)
And who plays whiny b__ch? American Hayden Christensen.
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Posted by: MattyDiggs on Sep 17, 2007 11:04 AM
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Women are VISIBLE in the industry but have little power compared to men. It's a fact. And if it makes you uncomfortable to hear a woman pointing that out, it's probably because it's true. Men should stop whining whenever a woman reminds us of this and tries to help even the scales. The civil rights movement would have gotten nowhere if whites didn't recognize their own freedom and step up to share them with others.
Thank you for the article. Well done.
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Posted by: madmac10 on Sep 17, 2007 11:38 AM
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Ha Ha!
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Posted by: messedup on Sep 18, 2007 9:16 AM
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What was this article all about?, the Television, and hollywood??
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