Home
Archive
Newsletters
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise

Rosie O'Donnell: A Progressive, But Flawed Hero

By Kera Bolonik, The Nation. Posted July 14, 2007.


Rosie is fearless about her progressive politics and puts her money where her big mouth is. But not everyone is glad to have her as their spokesperson.
Advertisement
Upcoming AlterNet stories on Digg

Hollywood has been creeping out of the closet these past few years -- Cynthia Nixon, Portia de Rossi, Lance Bass, T.R. Knight, Neil Patrick Harris, David Hyde Pierce -- but coming out hasn't always meant becoming an LGBT spokesperson.

For most, revealing their sexuality was more a pre-emptive tack to derail a media outing than a political statement. As Nixon said to New York magazine, "If someone is chasing you, stop running. And then they'll stop chasing you."

In fact, it would appear many celebrities prefer to live privately and hope that outing themselves doesn't impact their career. So when someone as famous and successful as Rosie O'Donnell takes the bulldyke by the horns and becomes decidedly out, loud and proud at a time when few are willing to take that risk, it's hard not to extol her as a heroine.

Between her occasionally controversial, opinionated blog Rosie.com and her seat on The View, which she vacated just before Memorial Day weekend after another grisly fight over the Iraq War with Christian conservative co-host Elisabeth Hasselbeck, Rosie has attracted as much media exposure as Paris Hilton without ever flashing her nether regions.

I came out during Reagan's oppressive mid-1980s, so I can really appreciate what it took for Rosie to transform herself from the closeted "Queen of Nice" (a mere ten years ago, the media ordained her as such) to a take-no-prisoners gay activist.

If she'd revealed herself as a lesbian back in the '80s, I would have built the woman a shrine. Even now, I wholly want to embrace her. She is totally fearless and puts her money where her big mouth is. She has three adopted children with her partner, Kelli Carpenter, who gave birth to their fourth child. They were married at San Francisco's City Hall along with thousands of other same-sex couples in the presence of Mayor Gavin Newsom.

She started R Family Vacations, a cruise line for gay and lesbian families, and has founded and funded a number of philanthropic ventures. She salvaged The View's fast-sinking ratings, single-handedly rescuing it from Star Jones's shameless daily play for a corporate-sponsored wedding, and returned the dialogue to current political events, in part, just by being herself: a lesbian mother who is infuriated at the Bush Administration and not afraid to go to the mat for anything. In so doing, she has become the most visible and outspoken lesbian in the nation -- whether by design or accident is unclear.

What I especially love about Rosie is her rare ability to endear herself to Middle America while rattling the cages of idiotic Hasselbeck, megalomaniacal Donald Trump, patrician Barbara Walters and swag-seeking Jones, whom she inadvertently drove off the show.

On her multi-Emmy Award-winning Rosie O'Donnell Show, she confronted Tom Selleck about his NRA membership on the heels of the Columbine massacre. On The View, she talked openly about Kelli the way others spoke of their spouses and boyfriends, which is in and of itself a radical act for daytime talk shows. My jaw dropped when she swapped coming-out stories with lesbian comedian Judy Gold.

Before Rosie, you could find such candid conversations only on cable channels like Logo or Bravo, certainly not on midmorning ABC. And more than once, she pleaded not for swag but for a safe withdrawal of US troops from Iraq and for President Bush's impeachment. "Someone, I believe, should call for the impeachment of George Bush to let the world know," Rosie powerfully argued, "that the nation is not standing behind this President's choices. That the nation -- a democracy -- feels differently than the man who is leading as if it were a dictatorship, and that we represent this country. He does not lead as a monarch."

So it feels weird to say that despite my deep admiration of her courage, her big heart, her good intentions and, frequently, her right-on politics, I am not her biggest fan. Yes, I share many of her views, not least of all her profound hatred of the Bush Administration, but there have been more than a few times when I found myself cringing at her ignorance.

Referring to the international news attention paid to Danny DeVito's drunken guest appearance on The View, Rosie mocked the Chinese language. "You know, you can imagine in China it's like, 'Ching chong, ching chong, Danny DeVito, ching chong chong chong chong, drunk, The View, ching chong." She apologized -- sort of. Rosie said she didn't realize "ching chong" was offensive to Chinese people and warned, "There's a good chance I'll do something like that again, probably in the next week -- not on purpose. Only 'cause it's how my brain works."

She also loves a conspiracy theory. Back in May, Rosie held forth about how one of the World Trade Center buildings was brought down by a controlled demolition engineered by the US government. It appears much of her information was culled from Loose Change, a dubious documentary that developed a huge cult following on YouTube. Charlie Sheen was equally swept up in the frenzy. Until late May, he was planning to narrate a new cut of the film that suggests 9/11 was a secret US government conspiracy. Both Rosie and Charlie Sheen have since begged off the project.

Since leaving The View, she has been putting up more home videos on her blog -- her usual postings are inexplicably written in her unique brand of verse -- and while she is bold enough to film herself sans makeup, her blog is totally unedited, for better and for worse.

Late last month, she baffled and disturbed some of her most devoted fans when she put up a photo of her 4-year-old daughter, Vivi, decked out in military regalia, complete with an ammo belt, with the caption "a picture is worth a thousand words." Her readers tried to parse the message, but Rosie, a crusader for gun control and an opponent of the war in Iraq, never offered an adequate explanation.

Don't get me wrong: I love that Rosie is as filterless as a Lucky Strike, and there are often great ideas that get buried under odd segues. But I wish for a shrewder, more eloquent critic stumping for the left. If only the genius for entrepreneurial endeavors that Rosie has evidently demonstrated would extend to every aspect of her life, especially her political expression.

She deserves it, and we (and by "we" I mean to imply anyone who agrees with her politics) do too. Of course, we're all prone to being hypocritical and ignorant, but most of us have the benefit of doing this in private. And perhaps, blessed with a staff of yes men, Rosie has no reason to think of herself as ill informed or wrongheaded.

For now, Rosie is taking a break from television -- as it turns out, she won't be hosting The Price Is Right -- but there are plenty of videos on YouTube and her own fresh v-logs to hold us over until her return. She will be back, she always comes back, and some will cheer, and others, not so much.

At the end of the day, her nobility must be recognized, because it truly is a burden to represent the LGBT community on such a grand scale. It must be, because no one else is rushing to do it. Ellen DeGeneres hasn't exactly retreated into the closet after the "Yep, I'm Gay" moment; she is, however, cleaving to Rosie's old "Queen of Nice" crown like a life raft. It seems Jodie Foster will never kick open that door, and after her defense of Mel Gibson, she can stay in there for all I care. But Rosie could use a hand. I know a lot of people who'd appreciate it.

Digg!    Share on facebook   submit to reddit    Bookmark on Delicious   Stumble This  

See more stories tagged with: rosie, the view

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from Media and Technology! Sign up now »


Advertisement
Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
4.2
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Jul 14, 2007 2:46 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not a bad summary.

She's a mess, but she stirs things up.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I see, shrewder, more eloguent, is that it?
Posted by: oneyedjack on Jul 14, 2007 3:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Okay, you desire that Rosie be "shrewder, more eloquent," is that it? Perhaps your desire is that she be more like the rest of the left 'gatekeepers,' you know, like those who write for The Nation? Mayhaps you'd like her to be as shrewd and as eloquent as those other "spokespersons" over at MoveOn.org?
I didn't realize there was a litmus test one had to pass in order to speak out in what ever protest fashion. But, then of course, you play it safe, don't rock the boat gatekeepers are the sole arbiters of all that is "correct" when it comes to progressive thought, speech and action; aren't you? Perhaps if we had more Rosies' and less Nancys,' Harrys,' Hillarys.' Obamas,' and even Keras' we might be able to take this country back. Playing it "safe" politically is just as distasteful (to this writer) as playing it safe in the closet. Perhaps it's time for all of you gatekeepers to come out.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Spokeperson?
Posted by: zak on Jul 14, 2007 5:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I admire Rosie tremendously. She isn't a spokesperson. She is one person willing to speak out about what she believes. I don't understand the standards she is being held to----it's only okay for someone to speak up, if we agree with everything they say?

She inspires me to stand up for what I believe, knowing full well that I in doing so, I won't please everybody.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Spokeperson? Posted by: Bibs
» RE: Spokeperson? Posted by: Bozly
The lies of 911
Posted by: davidslesinger on Jul 14, 2007 5:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Before you dismiss efforts to question the government lies about 9/11, please read my essay," Why the Left Should not be Hostile to 911truth efforts here http://911truth.org/article.php?story=20070321104405515

This website lists HUNDREDS of former military, intelligence, law enforcement and government officials, architects and engineers,professors, victims and family members, and media and entertainment professionals who at least call for a real investigation.
patriotsquestion911.com/

Also, the strongest single piece of evidence can be found at prisonplanet.com on 6/19/07 entitled:
"9/11 Bombshell: WTC7 Security Official Details Explosions Inside Building
Says bombs were going off in 7 before either tower collapsed"

Please note that WTC7, a 47 story building, collapsed at 5:20PM in 6.5 seconds straight down on 9/11/01 without being hit by a plane.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: The lies of 911 Posted by: ACarole
» RE: The lies of 911 Posted by: Lauren
Journalists don't speak for me
Posted by: micheller on Jul 14, 2007 5:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rosie doesn't have to answer to an editor, and she speaks across class, race, and gender lines. Journalism--and especially The Nation--can't do that.
I'm a homo, too. Ellen didn't do anything for me. Actually, none of the self-interested Hollywood crowd did. Nor the self-interested DC crowd. Rosie is breaking down walls.
I am relieved that Rosie is doing her part to balance out the conservative loudmouths. Besides, I was getting so tired of the stuffy, white, NPR, Nation reading crowd. The Nation speaks beautifully for the ivy leaguers and their wives who are truly outraged as they stroll about their lawn parties in seersucker suits. Don't get me wrong--I hope the Nation partners with the AARP or its elite counterpart and stays old and eloquent for years to come.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Journalists don't speak for me Posted by: VisionQuest
Rosie is NOT a politician; she doesn't need a minder or nanny
Posted by: xbj on Jul 14, 2007 6:49 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What precisely endears Rosie to most people are her faults, and the fact that she doesn't attempt "damage control" or any other of the face-saving tactics that ALL politicians and most celebrities THINK they absolutely MUST engage in, or they're going to lose a fan or two.

And that fear comes from people like the author criticizing the few people that have the courage and authenticity to fall flat on their ass sometimes, yet still get up and keep going, precisely for that very attribute.

"Why can't they be more _______? Why can't they be more restrained? Why can't they be more educated? Sober? Serious? Why can't they be more diplomatic?"

Which all translates, really, as "Why can't they be as fearful as me?"

One thing Rosie is NOT afraid of, and that's losing a few fans. Because she knows that, in this life, whoever you lose along the way wasn't worth having at your side in the first place. EVER.

Sorry the author can't handle Rosie with her human faults; those qualities are PRECISELY why the rest of us love her so VERY much. Yes, she IS a celebrity and not really one of "us", but she is certainly one of the damn few celebrities on the entire PLANET who actually deserve to be where she is.

And may she NEVER EVER hire a "minder" or "educator" or "filter" to restrain herself, EVER. For ANY reason.

Rosie goes beyond celebrity; she's family. Love 'em AND hate 'em. Because with family you don't pull any punches. When your family is worth a damn. And Rosie believes her humanity family IS worth a damn.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Why dis Rosie???
Posted by: picket on Jul 14, 2007 6:49 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While I was never a Rosie or a VIEW fan and I no longer am interested in their view, when I read about the political turmoil going on, I watched and rooted for Rosie's political views re BushCo. It was like a good ole high school girl fight and she held her own. Rosie, is OPINIONATED, but she is a real human and does not hide behind a MASK of some sort of correctness like say.... Barbara Walters.

In the real political arena Rosie probably would not make it because like like Cynthia McKinney, she would speak the TRUTH as she saw it. Speaking the TRUTH gets you dissed. Cynthia was not supported much on this site or by her own DEMS in Congress and I was disappointed, because she is brilliant.

Rosie isn't running for a political office so why "eat one of your own"?...# 1 reason she speaks out against the Bush policies. You do not see the "good ole boys" doing that ...they support their cronies. Take a lesson from our corrupt political players. That is a winning strategy.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

What was the REAL purpose of this article????
Posted by: Gravitas on Jul 14, 2007 7:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Was it really to debate the virtues of Rosie? Or debunk the 911 conspiracy theory in a calm, subtle way? The best propaganda is the kind that is least obvious. Social psychologists also tell us that we accept theories more easily if we have common ground with the presenter. So, first we have a nice summary of many things about Rosie most Alternet readers like. Yes, this author thinks like we do! Then we have that overplayed Chinese slur. Certainly it was offensive. But it is also something that was well discussed and there is no real purpose in its being rehased. Unless it is to associate Rosie in the reader's mind with something as ugly as racism. So then the next thing that is introduced, the 911 "conspiracy" sounds equally as distasteful. A reach on my part? Maybe! Way too many people are starting to question the official version, so I view EVERYTHING that "debunks" this theory with a critical eye. Not that I am 100% convinced it was an inside job, only that it would not surprise me.

I have personal experience with both heroism and conspiracies. Once, at a major corporation whose name you would immediately recognize, I was pressured to do something I found abominable. Since I would have rather died than give in, I held my ground at all cost. It turns out most people agreed with my position, only they didn't want to fight it themselves. So I had alot of secret encouragement. And also much criticism. Every little flaw was mocked and magnified. How dare I be human? I think that comes from us not wanting our heros to be like ourselves at times. Because their flaws and imperfections jog our consciences. Those who speak up are not some special breed apart sent to save us, they ARE us. Which means we have just as much responsibility as they do to take the risks and fight the good fight. What most people really want to do is sit back in safety until the tide is turned. Then, when there is just enough risk in the cause to be glamorous, they jump on the bandwagon. And are the first to critique those on the front lines.

"Who is the silence protecting?" (motto of truthseekers everywhere!)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Painted with the same brush
Posted by: bookwoman on Jul 14, 2007 7:52 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One of the complaints my gay friends have always made is that heterosexuals paint all of them with the stereotypes. Rosie's heteros with high heels remark smacks of the same type of stereotyping. I am straight and wear high heels occasionally, but I don't really care nor think about the sexual orientation of anyone I meet. Its none of my business. However, when someone hits me in the face with the wonderfulness of their beliefs, I tend to turn away and ignore them even when they are as loud as Rosie. From the time she attacked Tom Selleck for his membership in the NRA until now, Rosie seems to have been giving gay haters ammunition for their complaints. The argument on the View that day was a political difference and had nothing to do with sexual orientation. Rosie brought that into it. People like Cynthia Nixon and the other who have come out are different in that they state a fact about themselves and go on to another subject. Rosie, on the other hand, keeps it up and keeps it up to the point of distraction. Is everyone sure she isn't working for the other side.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

A child in military garb?
Posted by: SayBlade on Jul 14, 2007 8:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"... she put up a photo of her 4-year-old daughter, Vivi, decked out in military regalia, complete with an ammo belt, with the caption "a picture is worth a thousand words." "

Without having seen the picture myself, the irony in Rosie's posting of the picture is as still clear as day. It is a challenge issued in the form of hyperbole. It asks a lot of hard questions. Unfortunately, the answers returned by your country's leaders (and ours too, I would add) are murky or come back in the form of petulance.

You could fill a book with such as these.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The REAL Purpose of this Article? I think we know. . .
Posted by: Nuuon on Jul 14, 2007 8:02 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeah, I was following along with the thread of this article real well-- That is, until the author tossed in the "911 conspiracy" crap.

This is why you can't trust "liberals." They pretend to be "anti-establishment" but then they let that same establishment set limits and guidelines regarding how far they can go with the truth. Right now, few "liberals" are willing to risk their "legitimacy" by questioning the governments version of what happened on 911.

This is one of the reason why we can't make any real progress in changing this country. As long as "liberals" continue to play by establishment rules and as long as "liberals" continue to act as nothing more than the "official opposition" we will get nowhere.

I, and millions like me, will never join any "liberal" movement (not even the anti-war movement) as long as it refuses to confront Israel and the government's role in 911.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Is it really Liberals though? Posted by: Gravitas
THANK GOD
Posted by: Roverton on Jul 14, 2007 8:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For perfect authors, to report on the imperfect amongst us.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

REMEMBER
Posted by: Roverton on Jul 14, 2007 8:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Good liberals BEHAVE!!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

WHAT HAPPENED?
Posted by: Roverton on Jul 14, 2007 8:37 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anti-Conspiracy Troll Funds dry up?

Where's all the support for the article?

Where are all the "We agree" trolls? Sounding intellectual as all get out. Burying us in reams of things they were handed. Attacking the sanity of all who question.

Are they out of season?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: WHAT HAPPENED?--The Glare Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» w00t!!! Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» Considering Posted by: apophenia_monkey
Hetman
Posted by: Hetman on Jul 14, 2007 8:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is disappointing to see that AlterNet has joined those who cower before and hide from the disturbing but mountainous evidence that the official 9-11 conspiracy story is, like most else that comes to us from our regime, a pack of psy-op lies. Instead of joining The Nation in supporting the official lies of 9-11 (long since disproven by independent scientific analysis and serious investigative jouranlism from independent, non-mainstream reporters and investigators), and attacking its courageous critics, AlterNet should devote space to those courageous and open-eyed enough to state what is obvious from even a cursory examination of the events of 9-11 and the evidence that has not been destroyed or obscured -- that the "Administration" is lying about what happened on 9-11 and the identify of the real perpetrators. We have seen the enemy, and it is we.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Hetman Posted by: Lauren
Rosie is one of us
Posted by: nyscof on Jul 14, 2007 9:05 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't believe you think Rosie has to be a leader of the people. so she has a blog - who doesn't these days. Rosie is an entertainer first - someone who uplifts people every day either through her comedy or her philanthropy. and you want more from her. Give me (andher) a break.

Unike, you with the printed word, Rosie doesn't have fact-checkers correcting her every word uttered and written. Unfortunately, you with time and means to fact-check still got your story wrong. That picture of Rosie's daughter was NOT a statement against the war. It was a costume bought on the internet as a soldier's uniform. Why didn't people see that photo as "supporting the troops." I guess, like with all art, you see what you need to see.

Furthermore, her son had the same uniform on in a previouis picture but no one complained. Interesting isn't it.

Please call for the impeachment of Bush, Cheney and do our country a real favor.

People need to contact their elected officials and tell them that
find out who represents you here
http://www.congress.org

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Officially, I don't care anymore
Posted by: McJulie on Jul 14, 2007 9:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Popular, outspoken, funny, sometimes cringe-inducing agitators for the liberal cause like Rosie O'Donnell or Michael Moore attract a lot of hand-wringing from people who generally agree with them, but wish they weren't so -- or wish they were more -- or something.

Often this is expressed as a worry that somehow the right will use this against us, as if we can avoid their scorn by being sufficiently... I don't know... perfected?

Forget it. It won't work. These are already people who think Joseph McCarthy is underrated and Martin Luther King is overrated. There is no way for any liberal to be beyond reproach in their eyes, even if you call yourself a "progressive" because they've demonized the term "liberal."

Haven't you noticed that no amount of taking the high moral ground pays off in the political arena? Or were you on a little mental vacation when Kerry got Swiftboated?

Look, until every right winger I see is at least as embarrassed by Ann Coulter as we seem to be by people like Moore or O'Donnell, we do not need to do the right's work for them.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I actually agree
Posted by: daniel1982 on Jul 14, 2007 10:05 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rosie certainly has balls to say out loud what she believes in. Too bad she doesn't have the brains to back it up.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: I actually agree Posted by: realmuzik
» RE: I actually agree Posted by: realmuzik
Rosie and the astroturf 9/11 'truth movement'
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jul 14, 2007 10:53 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Provocateurs like to channel the 9/11 truth movement whenever they can - it makes for a few good laughs. Here's the quote from Taibbi:

"Rudy's attack against Ron Paul in the debate was a classic example of that kind of politics, a Rovian masterstroke. The wizened Paul, a grandfather seventeen times over who is running for the Republican nomination at least 100 years too late, was making a simple isolationist argument, suggesting that our lengthy involvement in Middle Eastern affairs -- in particular our bombing of Iraq in the 1990s -- was part of the terrorists' rationale in attacking us.

Though a controversial statement for a Republican politician to make, it was hardly refutable from a factual standpoint -- after all, Osama bin Laden himself cited America's treatment of Iraq in his 1996 declaration of war. Giuliani surely knew this, but he jumped all over Paul anyway, demanding that Paul take his comment back. "I don't think I've ever heard that before," he hissed, "and I've heard some pretty absurd explanations for September 11th."


Let's explain the propaganda technique being used by Karl Rove: it's called transferance.

The last thing Rove wants the public to understand is that 9/11 was blowback - an effect of US intervention in the Middle East and Afghanistan over the past four decades (and longer) - and that Bush Sr. and many members of the current administration, such as Elliot Abrams, are directly responsible - OBL got his start in the US funded covert war in Afghanistan, and he got his money by blackmailing the Saudi Royals who are like family to GW Bush.

So, what he did was to set up an astroturf group - the 9/11 Truth Movement - to create a ridiculous stuffed toy that politicians like Rudy could bash at every opportunity. The 9/11 truth movement is like a burning rubber tire that can be hung around the neck of any person who raises the issues behind the war for oil in the Middle East.

An amazing number of people bought into this bull - Rosie being just one example. The film, "Loose Change" was no more the product of an 'independent activist' than was Al Gore's Penguin Army" was (it was a film put out by DCI Group).

They've shut up recently, haven't they? Looks like the whole thing is coming unraveled. Where have the hundreds of '911truther' posters on Alternet gone to?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Addendum: "peeing in the soup" Posted by: thoughtcriminal
911truth is an astroturf public relations operation designed as a smear campaign
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jul 14, 2007 10:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
See my comment below.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

AS I WROTE TO THE NATION...
Posted by: Naturalboy on Jul 14, 2007 11:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When the Nation published its daft. patronizing and entirely anti-progressive rant about 911 Truth, I commented back to them that The NATION is THEIR Nation NOT mine.

Rosie's GREATEST WORK and lifetime achievement was delivered on the View when she openly addressed NOT lesbianism, but the riddle of the collapse of WTC #7, which finally provided the VERY FIRST voice on commercial TV that addressed this huge controversy on the minds of a large majority of the population (a % which gay rights activists could never garner, simply because their extreme minority issues don't effect the rest).

It was this 'outing' not of her safer, more minority-based references to gayness, etc. (old news, old issues, done, move on), but her references to 911 which caused the REALLY huge waves, resulting in her withdrawal from the public eye, and ultimately in a small, mocking mention on a marginal NY Times Blog called The Lede, which much to the dismay of the Times, elicited a virtual ‘implosion’ of reader comments.

I predict that both The Nation and the Times will one day be back-paddling on the 911 issues, as the Times presently furiously tries to do on Iraq (and as both will likely be attempting to do regarding their refusal to address impeachment, which likewise also remains on the minds of a growing majority)

It is time for the matter-of-fact issues about Rosie’s sexuality and her parade of nostalgic gay rights activists (who long to float their flag long after 'gayness' is not only no longer controversial, rather Gayness in show biz is now popular) to recede, and for the focus to be on Rosie’s true genius: The 'outing' of the 911 controversy in the main stream media.

It is the NATION which fails to represent the cutting edge of the great wave of progressivism building in the populace, NOT Rosie. Thank you Rosie, hang in there!

JS.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Unfriendly advice for Rosie and other 9/11 conspiracy theory nuts.
Posted by: HughScott on Jul 14, 2007 12:09 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Using my experience as a Continental Airlines captain (retired), former flight simulator instructor and project manager for B757 computer-based pilot training programs (CBT), I can shoot down every argument that claims Al Qaeda terrorists did not fly the hijacked jetliners on 9/11.

Here's REAL truth. Americans like Rosie O'Donnell who spread conspiracy rumors are traitors bent on undermining our nation and the confidence people have in government and the Constitution.

There is no way on God’s green earth that thousands of decent citizens -- from NYC cops, firefighters and building inspectors to ATC controllers, ADC interceptor pilots and military commanders -- could have conspired to bring about our national tragedy on September 11, 2001.

And don’t give me that bullshit about “compartmentalization.” Either shut up about your whacko 9/11 theories or get the fuck out of my country.

Hugh E. Scott, Vietnam veteran with a family history of honorable military service going back to 1776.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Dear Mr.Scott Posted by: imcnotu
Without 911, NO IRAQ WAR
Posted by: TRUTHer on Jul 14, 2007 12:22 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
911 was engineered in order (see PNAC) to invade the middle east. Without 911, what excuse would bushie have used to go over there and bomb the hell out of the Iraqi people? Now, they are in process of trying to get an oil agreement signed, but thank fully the Iraq government is refusing to sign it. It calls for the Iraq people to get about 25-50% of THEIR oil, while the oil companies get the rest! NOT about the oil huh?
Why should the oil companies get any..its NOT ours or theres.
Why are we still there? No WMD, no more Sadam, so what the hell is the reason we are there. THEY do not want us there..we have killed and murdered 1/2 million Iraqi's for what? They never did anything to us. Rosie was right...

Rosie deserves a freaking medal for having the nerve to bring up BLDG. 7 on the View. It was a controlled demolition, even the owner of the building, Silverstein, said it on TV...to prevent anymore loss of life, I thought it best to "PULL" the bldg, and so, they did. well, what loss of life? NO plane hit that building, there are many witnesses who say they heard bombs going off inside it.
The life of our country is at stake.
911 was the excuse for:
Iraq, The Patriot Act, Homeland Security, civilian spying, the dismantling of our Constitution, the secrecy, and on and on.

Every thing has Executive Privilege, they are above the law.
well, you need to open your eyes, and really look and ask yourself , why did they fight having a commission examine 911, and then refuse to testify under oath, and only if Bush and Cheney could be together......what were they hiding.

Its obvious that all this was planned. Exactly who, I do not know. We do no it includes parts of our government, Israel, (google the Dancing Israeli's) these are 5 men that were caught taking video of WTC as it was attacked and laughing and jumping around cheering.....check it out yourself. WHen they appeared on a tv show in Israel, after they were sent home by bush and Co. they said: We were only filming an event! now, how did they know an event would happen?

Please, we must quit arguing over this......its all so obvious that a bunch of Arabs, who FLUNKED flight school , could not possibly fly a jumbo jet....google and look at the damn cockpit.....not to mention, turned out about 9 of the so called hijackers are still alive......its a false flag operation peeps, to get us into unending war for oil, for Israel, look at the trillions of dollars that are missing, do you know the day before 9/11 Rumsfeld reported that 3 billion dollars was missing from the Pentagon. DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH ROOM THAT TAKES..It can not be just missing. all those billions bushco sent to Iraq...MISSING ! IT was a huge pallets...there are pictures of all the money, it can not go missing.
I am so sad.....if we can not stop this and fight together, even if you do not want to think 911 was in inside job, at least, fight to have a new investigation. What can you lose...
Peace and love to all, especially Rosie who loves America more than herself.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

. AlterNet Columnist questions 9/11
Posted by: aurora2484 on Jul 14, 2007 12:41 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Robert Scheer:
"What we still don’t know about 9/11 could kill us. By "we" I mean the public that has been kept in the dark for five years by a president who may know the truth but has chosen to ignore it. ...

"The 9/11 Commission report contains a disclaimer box on page 146, in which it is stated that the report’s account of what happened on 9/11 was in considerable measure based on what those key witnesses allegedly told interrogators, and that the commissioners were not allowed to meet the witnesses or their interrogators.

"We submitted questions for use in the interrogations, but had no control over whether, when or how questions of particular interest would be asked. Nor were we allowed to talk to the interrogators so that we could better judge the credibility of the detainees and clarify ambiguities in the reporting."

"In short, the most cited source that we have on what happened on 9/11, the much celebrated 9/11 Commission Report, was stage-managed by the Bush administration, just as it has controlled and distorted so much other information.

"In light of that sorry record of the propagandistic exploitation of the 9/11 tragedy for partisan political purpose, is it any wonder that large numbers of Americans have doubts about all of it and that a considerable industry of documentaries and investigative reports has sprung up with alternative theories ranging from the plausible to the absurd? "

From: Gaping Holes in 9/11 Narrative,
Robert Scheer, Sept 11, 2006 (orig in TruthDig)
www.commondreams.org/views06/0911-25.htm

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Rosie isn't MAD she is justifiably INSCENSED and OUTRAGED! Part I
Posted by: emccready on Jul 14, 2007 12:43 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with those coming to Rosie's defense. As one comment said - who among us (including the pundits and writers of the Nation!) are perfect? Rosie is justifiably outraged and inscensed that the majority of the people in this country have not reached the point of screaming and taking decisive action to stop the Bush Administration from continuing their destruction of this country. People are so complacent in the USA that we do possibly risk finding ourselves eventually under a dictatorship and only then will something click in and people will look around, staring disbelieving into the air like "Pigs in Space" wondering how we got there.
Will it bring something like that to bring people to their senses and force them to their feet to do more than sit around saying to themselves and others that they really can't do anything about this mess. I truly hope that we do not arrive at a point where we will require another Revolution in this country pitting the outraged against the complacent. The Declaration of Independence was not just a message to George III; it was also a message to us and says that it is our duty as citizens to overturn a government which does not represent the will of the people. Hopefully people will quickly get behind the Impeachment movement which is part of the Constitution of this country and which can accomplish this goal without spilling blood.
Here is some information from another site's comments: Make a call or two that just might make a difference:

"Call in your vote TODAY for impeaching Bush and Cheney
at this number: 202-225-0100

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s office is taking calls
voting for Impeachment of Bush/Cheney at 202-225-0100.
PLEASE CALL TODAY. At the toll free capitol
switchboard #s below, you can also call your
particular district’s congressional representative
to
insist that they support impeachment for Cheney. E.g.,
for Rep. Dennis Kucinich’s H Res 333 for Cheney;
please say:

“In addition to supporting Kucinich’s bill H Res
333,
I would also support a similar Impeachment Resolution
against Bush, especially after the disgraceful Scooter
Libby sentence “commuting” and the following
issues:
wiretapping, torture, numerous 9/11 intelligence
misrepresentations, the continued occupation of Iraq,
gross negligence during Hurrican Katrina, the Valerie
Plame CIA leak, […list your other grounds…]
..”[see
resolutions on tab #2 for other grounds for
impeachment]).

LANIC requests that Americans call today…Not
tomorrow
or next week. Every call adds to the extraordinary
grasswoots and nationwide movement’s pressures on
House Speaker Pelosi to act now .before further
innocent lives are lost in Iraq and elsewhere. Last
week 28 Americans lost their lives. Over the July 4,
2007 weekend over 400 Iraqis lost their lives…

SEND MAIL TO HOUSE SPEAKER NANCY PELOSI: Attn: Nancy
Pelosi, House Representative/Speaker of the House, 235
Cannon H.O.B., Washington, DC 20515 ; Pelosi’s Fax #
202 225-8259

Pelosi’s e-mail address :

Americanvoices@mail.house.gov

CC her at: sf.nancy@mail.house.gov

Please send her a pro-impeachment email and a specific
call to endorse H Res 333. Note: On Saturdays/Sundays,
Pelosi’s office has a comment line at which you can
leave a voicemail. Your message will be transcribed
and relayed to her. Please do encourage your
family/friends to contact the same number. Refer them
to www.bcimpeach.com for the actual telephone #s &
contact info.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: NO OIL CONTRACTS GET OUT Posted by: emccready
Rosie isn't MAD Part II
Posted by: emccready on Jul 14, 2007 12:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Find out who your Congressional representative is and
call that person. For toll free numbers to your
Congress rep: (800) 828 – 0498; (800) 459 – 1887;
or
(866) 340 – 9281. You will be connected once you
name
your congress person. The staff aid should take
detailed notes and provided to the Congressional
representative.

Final Note: Please say “I support Impeachment based
on
____. I’d like to know where “[representative
name]”
stands on this issue.” Let’s strike while the
Libby
fury keeps the iron hot! Please call and Act Now!

PLEASE ALSO CONTACT THESE KEY CONGRESSIONAL REPS RE
IMPEACHMENT:
Representative Capitol Phone Capitol Fax
Howard Berman 202-225-4695 202-225-3196
& 818-944-7200 818-994-1050

MAILING ADDRESS FOR BERMAN
Congressman Howard L. Berman
14546 Hamlin Street, Suite 202
Van Nuys, CA 91411

Henry Waxman 202-225-3976 202-225-4099
Loreta Sanchez 202 225-2965 202-225-5859
D. Watson 202 225-7084 202-225-2422
LindaSanchez 202 225-6676 202-226-1012
L. Solis 202 225-5464 202-225-5467
A. G. Eshoo 202 225-8104 202-225-8890
L. Roybal/Allard 202 225-1766 202-225-0350

http://www.bcimpeach.com/
"
Be able to say "I did not sit still while all this was happening!"

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

. Rosie, guest James Brolin: "look up 9/11weknow.com"
Posted by: aurora2484 on Jul 14, 2007 12:55 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
James Brolin with Rosie on The View

James Brolin is husband of Barbara Streisand.

He told Rosie, "The View", and the audience, "Look up
www.911weknow.com "

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The truth about 9/11 -- specifically, the collapse of WTC Building 7.
Posted by: HughScott on Jul 14, 2007 1:39 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In its March 2005 edition, Popular Mechanics magazine debunked a number of 9/11 myths. Most interesting to me was PM's version of the WTC 7 collapse.

Popular Mechanics addressed the claim that seven hours after the first two towers fell, 47-story WTC 7 came down in a manner similar to controlled demolitions.

PM said that many conspiracy theorists point to FEMA's preliminary report, which asserted there was relatively light damage to WTC 7 prior to its collapse. With the benefit of more time and resources, NIST researchers now support the working hypothesis that WTC 7 was far more compromised by falling debris than the FEMA report indicated.

NIST's Sunder told PM, "The most important thing we found was that there was, in fact, physical damage to the south face of building 7. On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom--approximately 10 stories--about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out."

NIST also discovered previously undocumented damage to WTC 7's upper stories and its southwest corner.

NIST investigators believe a combination of intense fire and severe structural damage contributed to the collapse, though assigning the exact proportion requires more research.

But NIST's analysis suggests the fall of WTC 7 was an example of "progressive collapse," a process in which the failure of parts of a structure ultimately creates strains that cause the entire building to come down.

Videos of the fall of WTC 7 show cracks, or "kinks," in the building's facade just before the two penthouses disappeared into the structure, one after the other. The entire building fell in on itself, with the slumping east side of the structure pulling down the west side in a diagonal collapse.

According to NIST, there was one primary reason for the building's failure: In an unusual design, the columns near the visible kinks were carrying exceptionally large loads, roughly 2000 sq. ft. of floor area for each floor. "What our preliminary analysis has shown is that if you take out just one column on one of the lower floors," Sunder noted, "it could cause a vertical progression of collapse so that the entire section comes down."

There are two other possible contributing factors still under investigation: First, trusses on the fifth and seventh floors were designed to transfer loads from one set of columns to another. With columns on the south face apparently damaged, high stresses would likely have been communicated to columns on the building's other faces, thereby exceeding their load-bearing capacities.

Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. "There was no firefighting in WTC 7," Sunder said. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line.

Said Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time."

WTC 7 might have withstood the physical damage it received, or the fire that burned for hours, but those combined factors--along with the building's unusual construction--were enough to set off the chain-reaction collapse.

Here's Hugh Scott's bottom line. Conspiracy theorists who dismiss PM’s plausible explanation of Building 7’s collapse show their true colors as subversive Americans with a treasonous, anti-government agenda. Move to Canada and spew your unpatriotic bullshit there, assholes!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» However-- Posted by: apophenia_monkey
Karl Rove loves 9/11 conspiracy nuts.
Posted by: HughScott on Jul 14, 2007 1:57 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What better way to divert attention from the Bush administration’s pre-9/11 homeland security failure than to have a bunch of wild-eyed wackos claiming thousands of decent Americans conspired to cause our national tragedy on September 11, 2001.

As a reminder of what’s really important, shown below is the title and text from the infamous intelligence briefing memo given to Bush outlining Al Qaeda plans to strike within our borders. He received the memo one month before 9/11, on August 6, 2001.

"Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in U.S."

Clandestine, foreign government and media reports indicate Bin Ladin since 1997 has wanted to conduct terrorist attacks in the U.S. Bin Ladin implied in television interviews in 1997 and 1998 that his followers would follow the example of World Trade Center bomber Ramzi Yousef and "bring the fighting to America."

After U.S. missile strikes on his base in Afghanistan in 1998, Bin Ladin told followers he wanted to retaliate in Washington, according to a ...(redacted portion) ... service. An Egyptian Islamic Jihad (EIJ) operative told an ... (redacted portion) ... service at the same time that Bin Ladin was planning to exploit the operatives access to the U.S. to mount a terrorist strike.

The millennium plotting in Canada in 1999 may have been part of Bin Ladin's first serious attempt to implement a terrorist strike in the U.S. Convicted plotter Ahmed Ressam told the FBI that he conceived the idea to attack Los Angeles International Airport himself, but that Bin Ladin lieutenant Abu Zubaydah encouraged him and helped facilitate the operation. Ressam also said that in 1998 Abu Zubaydah was planning his own U.S. attack.

Although Bin Ladin has not succeeded, his attacks against the US Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998 demonstrate that he prepares operations years in advance and is not deterred by setbacks. Bin Ladin associates surveilled our Embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam as early as 1993, and some members of the Nairobi cell planning the bombings were arrested and deported in 1997.

Al-Qaida members -- including some who are U.S. citizens -- have resided in or traveled to the U.S. for years, and the group apparently maintains a support structure that could aid attacks. Two al-Qaida members found guilty in the conspiracy to bomb our Embassies in East Africa were US citizens, and a senior EIJ member lived in California in the mid-1990s.

A clandestine source said in 1998 that a Bin Ladin cell in New York was recruiting Muslim-American youth for attacks. We have not been able to corroborate some of the more sensational threat reporting, such as that from a ... (redacted portion) ... service in 1998 saying that Bin Ladin wanted to hijack a U.S. aircraft to gain the release of "Blind Shaykh" Umar Abd al-Rahman and other US-held extremists.

Nevertheless, FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York.

[End of the intelligence memo]

As the above text shows, dots leading to 9/11 were the size of Goodyear blimps, but the Bush 43 White House never made the connections, too busy planning tax breaks for the rich and toppling Saddam Hussein.

Before the intelligence memo was declassified, Condi Rice, then Shrub's National Security Adviser, characterized it to reporters as a “historical” document and “not threat reporting.”

She made the same claim under oath to 9/11 Commissioners Ben-Veniste and Roemer. Later, after the White House published a redacted version of the memo, Condi still refused to admit what the title stated, that Bin Laden intended to strike the United States. That's the REAL 9/11 conspiracy.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

. Military personnell questioning 9/11
Posted by: aurora2484 on Jul 14, 2007 2:00 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
General Wesley Clark, U.S. Army (ret) – Former Commanding General of U.S. European Command, Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR), overall command of NATO military forces in Europe 1997 - 2001. Awarded Bronze Star, Silver Star, and Purple Heart for his service in Viet Nam and numerous subsequent medals and citations.

Video interview ABC's This Week with George Stephanopoulos 3/5/06: "We need Congress to do its job. We need real investigation of some of the abuses of authority that are apparently going on at the Executive branch. ... We've never finished the investigation of 9/11 and whether the administration actually misused the intelligence information it had. The evidence seems pretty clear to me. I've seen that for a long time." http://securingamerica.com/node/692

Major General Albert Stubblebine, U.S. Army (ret) – Former Commanding General of U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command, 1981 - 1984. Also commanded the U.S. Army’s Electronic Research and Development Command and the U.S. Army’s Intelligence School and Center. Former head of Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence. 32-year Army career.

Member, Military Intelligence Hall of Fame.
Video 7/11/06: "One of my experiences in the Army was being in charge of the Army’s Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence during the Cold War. I measured pieces of Soviet equipment from photographs. It was my job. I look at the hole in the Pentagon and I look at the size of an airplane that was supposed to have hit the Pentagon. And I said, ‘The plane does not fit in that hole’. So what did hit the Pentagon? What hit it? Where is it? What's going on?" http://www.und

Col. Ronald D. Ray, U.S. Marine Corps (ret) – Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense during the Reagan Administration and a highly decorated Vietnam veteran (two Silver Stars, a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart). Appointed by President George H.W. Bush to serve on the American Battle Monuments Commission (1990 - 1994), and on the 1992 Presidential Commission on the Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces. Military Historian and Deputy Director of Field Operations for the U.S. Marine Corps Historical Center, Washington, D.C. 1990 - 1994.

Article 7/10/06: "The former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense under the Reagan Administration and a highly decorated Vietnam veteran and Colonel has gone on the record to voice his doubts about the official story of 9/11 - calling it ‘the dog that doesn't hunt.’ ‘I'm astounded that the conspiracy theory advanced by the administration could in fact be true and the evidence does not seem to suggest that's accurate,’ he said." http://www.knowledgedriven

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

. Engineer's 9/11 questions
Posted by: aurora2484 on Jul 14, 2007 2:51 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many engineers and architects are on record as questioning the "official version" of the events of 9/11/. One of these is Rodger Herbst, BAAE (Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineering), ME (Mechanical Engineering) – Former Flight Control (737) and Simulation (777, 787) Engineer with the Boeing Company.

Essay 6/12/07: "So, why did the towers collapse? By now, almost six years later, we should have a definitive answer, but we do not. We have the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) study, the Federal Emergency Management Agency Building Performance Assessment (FEMA BAP); We have the Silverstein reports, we have the 9/11 Commission Report; we have the National Institute of Standards& Technology (NIST) reports and ARUP commentary.

Although these reports vary in details, and in some cases contradict one another, what we finally have is the Official Story, quoted verbatim by the US media: the impact of commercial aircraft, and the ensuing fire caused by aircraft fuel led to the collapse of WTC 1 and 2, the North and South World Trade Center Towers, on September 11 2001. The truth of the Official Story has never been proven, but has been implicitly assumed by all of the "Official" investigation reports." www.seattle911visibilityproject.org

Member: Scholars for 9/11 Truth Association Statement: "Research proves the current administration has been dishonest about what happened in New York and Washington, D.C. The World Trade Center was almost certainly brought down by controlled demolitions and that the available relevant evidence casts grave doubt on the government's official story about the attack on the Pentagon."

Member: Pilots for 9/11 Truth Association Statement: "Pilots for 9/11 Truth is an organization of aviation professionals and pilots throughout the globe that have gathered together for one purpose. We are committed to seeking the truth surrounding the events of the 11th of September 2001. Our main focus concentrates on the four flights, maneuvers performed and the reported pilots. We do not offer theory or point blame. However, we are focused on determining the truth of that fateful day since the United States Government doesn't seem to be very forthcoming with answers."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» the 911 astroturf movement, again Posted by: thoughtcriminal
Appleton14
Posted by: appleton14 on Jul 14, 2007 2:55 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Personally, I think Rosie is a nutcase. She came out and said she is or was suffering from clinical depression and I truly feel sorry for her for that. However, when I saw pictures hanging upside down like a bat to "cure" her depression, it makes me wonder about her. Actually I feel sorry for her.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Hetman
Posted by: Hetman on Jul 14, 2007 3:11 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wonder whether some who seem to define patriotism in today's America by criteria such as unquestioning loyalty and obedience to, and belief in, a government with a stainless and well know pedigree of deceit, perhaps the "good Germans" in the Nazi context would seem quite patriotic. Perhaps we all can gain a fuller understanding of true patriotism, of the dubious nature of the official 9-11 fairt tales, and of military patriots in today's America by visiting the following website:
www.patriotsquestion911.com

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

. Turbine Engineer, former NORAD officer, on 9/11: "No Way!"
Posted by: aurora2484 on Jul 14, 2007 3:14 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Capt. Daniel Davis, U.S. Army – Turbine engineering specialist. Founder and former CEO of Turbine Technology Services Corp., a turbine (jet engine) services and maintenance company (15 years). Former Senior Manager at General Electric Turbine (jet) Engine Division (15 years). Former U.S. Army Air Defense Officer and NORAD Tac Director. Decorated with the Bronze Star and the Soldiers Medal for bravery under fire and the Purple Heart for injuries sustained in Viet Nam. Also served in the Army Air Defense Command as Nike Missile Battery Control Officer for the Chicago-Milwaukee Defense Area. Private pilot.

Statement to 'patriots question 911' website 3/23/07: "As a former General Electric Turbine engineering specialist and manager and then CEO of a turbine engineering company, I can guarantee that none of the high tech, high temperature alloy engines on any of the four planes that crashed on 9/11 would be completely destroyed, burned, shattered or melted in any crash or fire. Wrecked, yes, but not destroyed. Where are all of those engines, particularly at the Pentagon? If jet powered aircraft crashed on 9/11, those engines, plus wings and tail assembly, would be there.

Additionally, in my experience as an officer in NORAD as a Tactical Director for the Chicago-Milwaukee Air Defense and as a current private pilot, there is no way that an aircraft on instrument flight plans (all commercial flights are IFR) would not be intercepted when they deviate from their flight plan, turn off their transponders, or stop communication with Air Traffic Control. No way! With very bad luck, perhaps one could slip by, but no there's no way all four of them could!

Finally, going over the hill and highway and crashing into the Pentagon right at the wall/ground interface is nearly impossible for even a small slow single engine airplane and no way for a 757. Maybe the best pilot in the world could accomplish that but not these unskilled "terrorists".

Attempts to obscure facts by calling them a "Conspiracy Theory" does not change the truth. It seems, "Something is rotten in the State."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Answer to Hugh Scott and his ilk: "IGNORE THIS USER"
Posted by: xbj on Jul 14, 2007 3:51 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No matter where you stand on 9-11 truth, ANYONE who tries to tell anyone what to believe and why, using fake patriotism and military service and wrapping themselves in the flag, instead of insisting that you DO THE DUE DILIGENCE and VITALLY NECESSARY RESEARCH, and in the end, MAKE YOUR OWN EDUCATED DECISIONS, is working for BushCheneyCo, and need to be ignored completely.

Let the Rove boiler room brats like Hugh and his disinfo cointelpro crew preach to their own and backslap each other until they're giddy with their bonuses.

For the rest of us: AMERICA, JUDGE FOR YOURSELF.

Every American MUST be a truth-seeker when it comes to 9-11 and who benefitted the most; because those who benefitted the most (read made the most money from the aftermath) are ALWAYS the perpetrators.

And it wasn't a bunch of dead Saudi crazies (many of whom are still alive by the way) with an Egyptian crazy either. Unless you believe in the crap spewed by Hugh and his bosses, in stripper-pawing coke-snorting Islamic fundamentalists like Atta in Vegas bars planning on going to glory with 100 virgins...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» No. That's not what he said. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: No. Posted by: justaguy
» 911 astroturfers at it again... Posted by: thoughtcriminal
You Go Rosie
Posted by: Schroeder on Jul 14, 2007 4:59 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I admire Rosie and her style. I admittedly do sometimes cringe over things that she says but mostly because I know that her critics are going to go after her for it. I love that she has the courage to stir things up and to say the things that many others are not even brave enough to think out of fear that someone will read their mind. My God, do we think there is anyone out there who is perfect??? I love Rosie, I love her guts!!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

9/11 culpability
Posted by: phindrup on Jul 14, 2007 6:46 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only question you need to answer for yourself on the 9/11 charade is: Do I believe that Bush and his crowd are/are not capable of pulling a stunt like this in their own interest?
The rest merely consists of details.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: 9/11 culpability Posted by: 1984NOW!!!
I too wish for a shrewder, more eloquent critic stumping for the left
Posted by: fipster on Jul 14, 2007 7:31 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It warms my heart to read most of the comments on this piece. Obviously there are a lot of people out there researching, investigating and using their brains in ways that go beyond the room in which Bolonik and Alternet for the most part are locked in regarding 9/11 and so-called conspiracy theories.

While Rosie's blog and public appearances may contain typos, missteps and bold statements (some of which I don't agree with and others for which I would urge her to provide more precise evidence for), there is still a powerful truth within. Those who haven't researched matters for themselves might not see it, but those who have do; or if they don't, one really has to wonder how hard they were studying. It's just not that hard to figure out once you take the blinders off! You know, we do have the awesome power of the Internet as our tool for the time being at least.

Yes, I do think Rosie could be more methodical and precise in her statements. But then again, she's got her own style and more importantly she's also not operating in a medium (television) where people are able to explain their positions in great detail especially controversial ones. But she still gets far more respect from me than someone who casually dismisses unpleasant truths instead of investigating deeper (like I used to do in regards to 9/11)...

Indeed, there was a time not too long ago where I might have written similar statements such as dismissing Loose Change as little more than "a dubious documentary". Or that I might have linked the 9/11 Truth movement with cult followings, frenzies and other imagery associated with irrational, unthinking behavior.

History is going to prove many wrong on "Loose Change". As I now see it, it may in fact be, even with all of its faults, one of the most important and influential films of all time.

As someone who until fairly recently stayed within the "safe" bounds of thought put forth by the likes of Chomsky, Democracy Now!, Counterpunch, The Nation and most of the left, I can perhaps relate to Bolonik's desire to cast aside so-called conspiracy theories regarding 9/11. It's quite frankly much more comforting and easy intellectually to dismiss the possibility of 9/11 being what it almost assuredly was, a false-flag terror event designed to whip people into supporting what's looking more and more like a series of imperialistic and criminal wars of aggression - with perhaps more 9/11s to come.

I owe it to several people like theologian Dr. David Ray Griffin, professor Dr. Kevin Barrett, physicist Dr. Steven Jones the good people at Project Censored for publishing an article about him, professor Dr. Michel Chossudovsky and others to many to mention for awakening me to the reality of the situation we now finds ourselves in -- no matter how unpleasant and disturbing that realization may be.

If you're reading this Ms. Bolonik, I would urge you to first take a look at the relatively new Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth website (http://www.ae911truth.org) which contains an excellent video presentation by architect Richard Gage.

Obviously you can do a search for any of the above mentioned names as well.

You might also view any of the great lectures by Christian theologian David Ray Griffin (I'd recommend "9/11: The Myth and the Reality") or read any of his books on the topic. This agnostic highly recommends them!

In the end, a person has to ask oneself, who is smarter: a person who is able to spell everything and be religiously politically correct while battling with wit and verve all of the far less controversial issues of the day -- comparatively speaking -- or the person who comes out and says it warts and all just how bad the situation is and realizes that fascists are taking over their nation using the Big Lie (aka the Global War on Terror)?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

. If "US Media Inc" had even HALF Rosie's Courage
Posted by: aurora2484 on Jul 14, 2007 11:10 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
* The US could still have a living, vibrant Constitution, one that was respected and adhered to.

* The Rule of Law would have been restored.

* The Gulags would be gone; torture would NEVER AGAIN be condoned.

* The criminals would have been removed

* Many investigations would be underway and legislation would be being reversed.

* Free and Fair elections would be on the way, and any politicians who tried to jump queue, to pre-empt the securing of free and fair voting with securing their own candidacy or advantage as a politician, would be automatically disqualified from running in the immediate years ahead.

* Jihadist groups would no longer be being funded out of the White House of the USA

* Our respected Ancestors could return once more to Rest in Peace.

(there are many more: feel free to add your own.)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

ROSIE IS BOLD, ROSIE IS GREAT, ROSIE ROCKS!!!
Posted by: 1984NOW!!! on Jul 15, 2007 1:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I had stopped watching The View because I couldn't stand Elizabeth. When I knew that Rosie was joining the cast, I relished the idea of how Rosie might shut that idiot Elizabeth up.
She did not disappoint me. Yes, sometimes she was a little out there, but I was so proud of her for saying things I hadn't heard anyone say on TV, especially to a lot of stay-at-home moms, and the daytime viewer who might not be exposed to an illuminating view point when watching the NO-NEWS at 6 PM.

ROSIE IS A VERY BRAVE HUMAN BEING.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

WELL, THEY GOT TO YOU.
Posted by: Roverton on Jul 15, 2007 8:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We don't expect you to admit to it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Some Disinformation From CIA Propaganda Rag "The Nation"
Posted by: johndoraemi on Jul 15, 2007 11:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Nation is a disinformation propaganda instrument. Max Holland edits the CIA's web site. Max Holland edits The Nation Magazine. Do the math.

Be very leary of these inbred "alternative" magazines who all share the same views on September 11th, and proceed to ridicule and attempt to discredit anyone who disagrees.

"Yes, I share many of her views, not least of all her profound hatred of the Bush Administration,"

This is the ACCEPTABLE view. It's all Bush's fault.

That the entire duopoly is corrupt to the core and an illegitimate imperial abomination is beyond the scope of acceptable discourse.

"but there have been more than a few times when I found myself cringing at her ignorance."

Included, of course, as "ignorance" is September 11th 2001, although clearly a conspiracy, clearly a cover-up, clearly a whitewash. Even Senators who investigated it first hand tell us so. Sen. Bob Graham tells us that "foreign governemnts" (plural) were involved. Sen. Max Cleland tells us that this is a cover up and not a true investigation, and that he quit so as not to be associated with another "Warren Commission."

"...Rosie held forth about how one of the World Trade Center buildings was brought down by a controlled demolition engineered by the US government."

Yes that's right. Rosie did bring this matter up, in a very courageous act that should be praised.

"It appears much of her information was culled from Loose Change, a dubious documentary that developed a huge cult following on YouTube."

So, it's all about an internet movie, and the truth or falsity of the demolition claim isn't worth bothering to investigate. This is standard practice at Alternet/The Nation/Progressive Magazine, etc.

So, beyond "Loose Change," there's nothing to talk about, nothing to see, nothing to investigate regarding the September 11th attacks.

Rosie said a number of things aobut 9/11, many of which may be absolutely true. It's not just "Loose Change", but physicists, structural engineers, architects, former high ranking government officials and military leaders who question the "collapses" of the three NY towers.

Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth
http://www.ae911truth.org/

The reason they do so is that the official story does not make sense. Buildings constructed with steel frames don't just crumble into their own footprints. They never have, in all of recorded history, except for one day in September 2001.

This article attempts to dismiss several hundred anomalies and facts regarding what the Bush regime (and Clinton regime) did and did not do to protect America.

Ignorance is not strength. Ignorance is not bliss. The tattered threads of our Republic are one more incident away from being cut forever.

DISTURBING FACTS ABOUT 9/11

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» 911 astroturfers just don't quit... Posted by: thoughtcriminal
9/11 Truth Movement? Rubbish
Posted by: Ghoulman on Jul 15, 2007 2:49 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... the 9/11 Truth Movement, originating from a university Prof. of less than impressive tenure, is a laughable hodge-podge of "grassy knoll" theories.

What's the one fact they never talk about? The one that actually points to the White House having inside knowledge and even directing events as they happened? This one fact is this: how do hijacked planes fly around US airspace for an hour? Ask Dick Cheney please.

Still, the 9/11 Truth Movement brings out the most silly theories... the towers were bombed. Pleeeeeeeaaaaase. And yes buildings do, in fact, collapse onto themselves. Physics. Science. These things tell us this and hey, if you've ever seen any building collapse you'd now this. Why doesn't the 9/11 Truth Movement know this? Hmmmmm???

As for Rosy O'Donnell's political commentary, she is a fine character actor. ;p

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Heroes
Posted by: pizzmoe on Jul 15, 2007 4:22 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is there such thing as a hero that isn't flawed?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Heroes Posted by: talkville
So?
Posted by: talkville on Jul 16, 2007 4:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If it can be demonstrated that Rosie is progressive, so be it. Each and every one of us has many flaws and I daresay no perfections. She hardly strikes me as an "Anne Coulter of the Left".

There's no doubt, however, that it's high time polemic and rhetoric be addressed to the arguments and positions taken rather than to the person who utters them - all across the board. A proposition is never refuted by the loudness of the voice, however much attention is directed to it. Having said that, if the Mix is loud then scream Rosie scream! Our society has dulled, very dulled senses these days... .

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

"SEND IN THE TROLLS..."
Posted by: Roverton on Jul 16, 2007 7:49 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"There used to be trolls.
Well, maybe next year."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

WHEN TROLLS MOCK SOMENE
Posted by: Roverton on Jul 16, 2007 8:04 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They reveal the ONE, SINGLE DEVICE THAT ACTUALLY WORKS ON THEY THEMSELVES INSTEAD - SHAME!

Mockery is the tool they use because THEY know THEY'RE lying. It doesn't work on someone who is not lying, only the ones that do.

SHAME ONLY WORKS WHEN YOU'RE ACTUALLY ASHAMED!

NO TROLL is over a certain IQ or they wouldn't take the job to begin with. They're cruel children in adult bodies. Sick people who take money to betray their own species. They rattle off fed info they don't comprehend in the least.

Brownshirts on keyboards. All the brownshirts that survived have lived in permanent shame throughout the rest of their tragic lives. Their arrogance was repaid in spades.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

No one is perfect
Posted by: mercury613 on Jul 16, 2007 1:10 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeah, Rosie has made some mistakes, but then we all have. I believe her heart is in the right place, and she's done a lot of good. There are very few, if any, other gay/lesbian people in the public eye who are as outspoken as she is, and I love her for it. As a gay man, I'm proud that she is part of our community.

Go, Rosie!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Bibs
Posted by: Bibs on Jul 16, 2007 7:26 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In reply to the article about Rosie, I agree with most of it; where I disagree is that she is ignorant. That's bullshit. She's an accomplished actor, dancer, award-winning talk-show host, fighter for equal rights for all and protection for children, and a crusader for remediation of injustice for anyone. I've watched The View most days for 10 years, and it took off after the sychophantic and dilettantish "Star", ha, Jones, who now looks like a Michael Jackson clone, was fired, and Rosie took the helm.

Rosie can argue with anyone using facts and humor. I thought she was admirable in her treatment of the silly Hasselbeck or whatever her football player husband is named. I want to smack her every day, and although Rosie tried, that last exchange was Elisabeth's fault; she did not back what Rosie had said or not said; she shouted and stuck her finger in Rosie's face. It was ugly, and the "sweet" E was much more vociferous than Rosie. The View is gone.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Rosie
Posted by: opeluboy on Jul 17, 2007 6:05 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Personally, I find her abrasive and annoying. I also think she has bigger balls than the entire roster of Democrats on Capitol Hill put together.

That outweighs any problems I might have with her.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

If you're going to criticize "ignorance" don't be ignorant
Posted by: enji on Jul 20, 2007 5:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rosie did NOT say the government was behind the WTC7 collapse. She raised the questions about the collapse, and exhorted us all to keep asking the questions. She hasn't tried to go so far as to say who was behind what 'conspiracy.' It was the media circus that put these words in her mouth, and the media circus which has taken pretty much anything she has written or said since and twisted it beyond recognition.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Advertisement
Advertisement