COMMENTS: 131
Gloria Steinem: In Defense of the 'Chick Flick'
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So what exactly is a "chick flick?" I think you and I could probably agree that it has more dialogue than special effects, more relationships than violence, and relies for its suspense on how people live instead of how they die.
I'm not challenging your choice; I'm just questioning the term that encourages it. After all, if you think back to your school days, much of what you were assigned as great literature could have been dismissed as "chick lit." Indeed, the books you read probably only survived because they were written by famous guys.
Think about it: If Anna Karenina had been written by Leah Tolstoy, or The Scarlet Letter by Nancy Hawthorne, or Madame Bovary by Greta Flaubert, or A Doll's House by Henrietta Ibsen, or The Glass Menagerie by (a female) Tennessee Williams, would they have been hailed as universal? Suppose Shakespeare had really been The Dark Lady some people supposed. I bet most of her plays and all of her sonnets would have been dismissed as some Elizabethan version of ye olde "chick lit," only to be resurrected centuries later by stubborn feminist scholars.
Indeed, as long men are taken seriously when they write about the female half of the world -- and women aren't taken seriously when writing about themselves much less about men or male affairs -- the list of Great Authors will be more about power than about talent.
Still, I know this is not your problem. Instead, let me appeal to your self-interest as well as your sense of fairness: If the "chick flick" label helps you to avoid the movies you don't like, why is there no label to guide you to the ones you do like?
Just as there are "novelists" and then "women novelists," there are "movies" and then "chick flicks." Whoever is in power takes over the noun -- and the norm -- while the less powerful get an adjective. Thus, we read about "African American doctors" but not "European American doctors," "Hispanic leaders" but not "Anglo leaders," "gay soldiers" but not "heterosexual soldiers," and so on.
That's also why you're left with only half a guide. As usual, bias punishes everyone. Therefore I propose, as the opposite of "chick flick" and an adjective of your very own, "prick flick." Not only will it serve film critics well, but its variants will add to the literary lexicon. For example, "prick lit" could characterize a lot of fiction, from Philip Roth to Bret Easton Ellis and beyond. "True prick" could guide readers to their preferred non-fiction, from the classics of Freud to the populist works of socio-biologists and even Rush Limbaugh.
Most of all, the simple label "prick flick" could lead you easily and quickly through the thicket of televised, downloaded and theatrical releases to such attractions as:
All the movies that glorify World War II. From classics with John Wayne and Ronald Reagan, those master actors who conveyed heroism without ever leaving the back lot, to Spielberg's "Band of Brothers," in which the hero would rather die than be rescued, Hollywood has probably spent more on making movies about the war than this country spent on fighting it. After all, World War II was the last war in which this country was clearly right. Without frequent exposure to it, how are we to believe we still are?
All the movies that glorify Vietnam, bloody regional wars, and the war on terrorism. These may not be as much fun to watch -- you probably are aware that we aren't the winners here -- but they allow you to enjoy mass mayhem in, say, South Asia or Africa or the Middle East that justifies whatever this country might do.
All the movies that portray violence against women, preferably beautiful, sexy, half-naked women. These feature chainsaws and house parties for teenage guys, serial killers and sadistic rapists for ordinary male adults, plus cleverly plotted humiliations and deaths of powerful women for the well-educated misogynist.
All the movies that insist female human beings are the only animals on earth that seek out and even enjoy their own pain. From glamorized versions of prostitution to such complex plots as "Boxing Helena," a man's dream of amputating all a rebellious woman's limbs -- and then she falls in love with him -- these provide self-justification and how-to manuals for sadists.
As you can see, one simple label could guide you through diversity, and help other viewers to practice avoidance.
But if you really think about it, I'm hope-a-holic enough to think you might like to watch a chick flick after all.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: A. Burr on Jul 7, 2007 1:05 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: Black and white generalizations
Posted by: amyliz430
Comments are closed-
Posted by: strahlungsamt on Jul 7, 2007 1:19 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And who is responsible for the terms "Women Novelists" or "African American Novelists" or "Minority" whatever? Women, African Americans and Minorities, that's who. It's not men who give you those names, you do it yourself.
And what's with women getting sawed up? I see more movies where the pretty girl gets absolved from all guilt because she is a pretty girl while the men get their heads blown off. What I wish Feminists would take on is the producers of "Sex and the City". That show is one step forward and ten steps back for Feminism. Men are ok for sex and jewellery but it's still about depending on men for everything in the end. (Sarah Jessica Parker is just the Feminist Ron Jeremy - butt ugly with men inexplicably fawning over her)
If you want to see some real Feminist cinema, check out "I Spit on Your Grave" - woman gets raped, seeks out her rapists and hacks them to death, "Run Lola Run" - total role reversal or "Baise Moi" - 2 abused women go on a rampage around France killing men and shooting up a sex club Wild West style - beats "Thelma and Louise" anyday.
Disclaimer: I'm a straight white guy.
» RE: You talk about Pricks like they're a bad thing
Posted by: JCrowe
» RE: You talk about Pricks like they're a bad thing
Posted by: fork
» RE: You talk about Pricks like they're a bad thing
Posted by: JCrowe
» RE: You talk about Pricks like they're a bad thing
Posted by: bookwoman
» RE: You talk about Pricks like they're a bad thing
Posted by: maestra
» For the love of all that's good in this word...
Posted by: anotheropinion
» Rather, in this world...
Posted by: anotheropinion
» RE: You talk about Pricks like they're a bad thing
Posted by: amyliz430
Comments are closed-
Posted by: EasterBunny on Jul 7, 2007 3:22 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Example 1: Just plain wrong
"Just as there are "novelists" and then "women novelists," there are "movies" and then "chick flicks." Whoever is in power takes over the noun -- and the norm -- while the less powerful get an adjective."
people talk about "guy flicks" and "guy films" all the time.
Example 2: Major unfounded assertions.
"Indeed, as long men are taken seriously when they write about the female half of the world -- and women aren't taken seriously when writing about themselves much less about men or male affairs -- the list of Great Authors will be more about power than about talent."
so all the great authors are hacks that got on the list because of "power". sure. i'll take your word for it.
Example 3: Create a stupid incoherent category of things that gloria doesn't like.
"For example, "prick lit" could characterize a lot of fiction, from Philip Roth to Bret Easton Ellis and beyond. "True prick" could guide readers to their preferred non-fiction, from the classics of Freud to the populist works of socio-biologists and even Rush Limbaugh."
philip roth and rush limbaugh? yeah that's a perfectly natural grouping.
then add in:
"All the movies that glorify World War II."
"All the movies that glorify Vietnam, bloody regional wars, and the war on terrorism."
"All the movies that portray violence against women preferably beautiful, sexy, half-naked women."
"All the movies that insist female human beings are the only animals on earth that seek out and even enjoy their own pain."
"[movies that] provide self-justification and how-to manuals for sadists."
i must be one of those people who seeks out pain since i actually read this idiotic article!
» How can anybody find this article halfway intelligent?
Posted by: H_H
» RE: How can anybody find this article halfway intelligent?
Posted by: treehugr
» RE: How can anybody find this article halfway intelligent?
Posted by: H_H
Comments are closed-
Posted by: marxalot on Jul 7, 2007 3:57 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By that definition, Woody Allen's "Interiors" is a chick flick. No. A chick flick is a movie which focuses on romance as fantasized by young women, often to the exclusion of potentially more interesting plotting.
So prick flicks are everything else? There's a lot of crap movies out there, and occasionally a good one. The good one may even be a chick flick, though I wouldn't bet on it.
» RE: Bad Movies
Posted by: Angry Sam
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Cruella on Jul 7, 2007 4:31 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» Because trite blogs are REALLY fascinating
Posted by: H_H
» No, articles by feminists are really fascinating, aren't they?
Posted by: Beck
» RE: No, articles by feminists are really fascinating, aren't they?
Posted by: thortytoes
» why are there so many idiotic feminist writers?
Posted by: EasterBunny
» That's a fine question, Easterbunny
Posted by: H_H
» RE: That's a fine question, Easterbunny
Posted by: PirateJesus
» Actually, yes.
Posted by: H_H
» RE: why are there so many idiotic feminist writers?
Posted by: treehugr
» RE: ya quoted me on your blog!
Posted by: Ghoulman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: talkville on Jul 7, 2007 4:46 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Dadster3 on Jul 7, 2007 5:42 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: allyourbasearebelongtous on Jul 7, 2007 5:42 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» And the answer is...
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: a deliberately offensive choice of words, Ms. Steinem**CHICK IS AN OFFENSIVE TERM**
Posted by: maribelle
» RE: a deliberately offensive choice of words, Ms. Steinem**CHICK IS AN OFFENSIVE TERM**
Posted by: treehugr
» RE: a deliberately offensive choice of words, Ms. Steinem**CHICK IS AN OFFENSIVE TERM**
Posted by: EasterBunny
» RE: a deliberately offensive choice of words, Ms. Steinem**CHICK IS AN OFFENSIVE TERM**
Posted by: wolfdaughter
» RE: a deliberately offensive choice of words, Ms. Steinem**CHICK IS AN OFFENSIVE TERM**
Posted by: EasterBunny
Comments are closed-
Posted by: naomi dagen bloom on Jul 7, 2007 5:55 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: thank you, gloria
Posted by: EasterBunny
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ankhet on Jul 7, 2007 6:15 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Shakti on Jul 7, 2007 6:16 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you, Goria, for speaking up and out. I miss feminists. I wish there were more feminist voices in the public sphere.
» RE: brilliant!
Posted by: VannaLaRoche
» RE: brilliant! NOT!
Posted by: EasterBunny
Comments are closed-
Posted by: H_H on Jul 7, 2007 6:59 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On the other hand, the Norton Anthology of Literature by Women only chooses the finest authors without regard to their sex. Including such "brillaint" luminaries as Alice Walker and Charlotte Perkins Gilman. The success of either of those individuals surely had nothing to do with their sex and everything to do with their mediocre output.
Oh, and not to mention Mary Shelley, the thinly-educated 17 year old who managed to miraculously write something like Frankenstein after getting married to her famous poet husband Percy Bysshe Shelley who'd do anything for her, and who mysteriously failed to produce anything of comparable value after he died.
» RE: Ooh, fuckin' MEN- we hate 'em!
Posted by: profoflitandtrout
» RE: Ooh, fuckin' MEN- we hate 'em!
Posted by: H_H
» RE: Ooh, fuckin' MEN- we hate 'em!
Posted by: wolfdaughter
» RE: Ooh, fuckin' MEN- we hate 'em!
Posted by: profoflitandtrout
» Are you suggesting there aren't any great female writers out there...?
Posted by: mjabele
Comments are closed-
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 7, 2007 7:12 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» Agree...
Posted by: mjabele
Comments are closed-
Posted by: karyse on Jul 7, 2007 7:15 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One question, where does Kill Bill II fit into the scheme?
I confess to using the term "chick flick." When I do I always mean a film that has a predictable outcome, uses obvious "device" rather than craft, promotes the current ideology wherein it is every woman's dream to be married and spending mega bucks at a wedding makes sense, and presents nothing extraordinary. In short, chick flicks are for young women who believe cultural/fairy tale myths such as "they live happily ever after."
Whenever a word or phrase, whether stereotypical or not, is informative and reflects reality it is useful. Sure I hate that young women believe that what happens in "Pretty Woman" CAN happen, but calling it a chick flick lets me know a priori that the ending is bogus.
» RE: I somewhat agree with
Posted by: treehugr
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LeslieGem on Jul 7, 2007 7:29 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: Right On
Posted by: etherica
» Hi, Beck!
Posted by: Amynda M.
» hey, katalyn! Uh, "Amynda M." Maybe Henry Higgins?
Posted by: Beck
» Right on! - I agree.....
Posted by: mjabele
» DICK flick-Isn't a DICK flick any footage about VP Cheney?
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ellie1 on Jul 7, 2007 7:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: babka on Jul 7, 2007 8:13 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"chops", I am going to recommend that you enroll in our newest class.
It is called "Shock & Awe" - isn't that timely?
I am sure you cannot have helped noticing that a woman has (in many films) only
two scenes in which to make an impression. In the first, she is introduced in all
her sweetness, beauty, provocative sexiness, whathaveyou; and in the second she
is violated and killed in a very bloody manner. Sometimes you will get to play
the corpse of a prostitute face-down in a motel room - sometimes you will have a
bit part, such as "girl steps out of car, gets blown up". Some of you
will get to play a young girl - "Is that my daughtah? Is that my daughtah?"
- post-rape, in a contorted position in a lonely ravine; or fall to your death,
as Lee Remmick did when her little boy the devil pushed her over a bannister from
a very great height. Sometimes you will be raped and killed because you dressed
too seductively, and tempted an otherwise circumspect killer. Sometimes you will
be in your forties, killed so that your husband, the lead, will be able to hunt
down your killer with the help of a lovely young babysitter. Sometimes the new
widower will be left all alone with his nubile daughter until he meets an adorable
twenty-year-old.
In any event, as we all know, acting is re-acting. You must know your screams in
a very competitive market, and you must be capable of nuance. There are very subtle
differences, and if you audition well, and are lucky enough to get a slot in this
class - taught by the prestigious casting director Mona Lusk - you will be taught
these nuances by one unencumbered by stage or film performance experience.
Someone objective. Feel free to practice here as indicated.
You'll learn, for example, the precise scream of a woman who comes home from
the grocery, and finds that her beloved teenaged daughter has been brutally murdered
(scream).
You'll learn how that scream is distinct from the scream of a woman who steps
out of the shower, wipes the steam from the mirror, and sees her killer reflected
in the glass (scream).
Learn the double-scream: you come into the nursery to find your baby missing from
his broken crib (scream 1.) when suddenly a masked intruder stabs you in the heart
with an ice-pick (scream 2.).
It's a tremendous opportunity, and while being seen by Mona will not guarantee
that you will find work in future, well - it can't hurt. The signup sheet is
on line at shock&awe.edu, or, if you like, you can register right now with me.
Good luck, and God Bless!
*************************************************
» RE: shock&awe/dot.edu
Posted by: babka
» RE: shock&awe/dot.edu
Posted by: treehugr
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jiclemens on Jul 7, 2007 8:59 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: dornbear on Jul 7, 2007 9:18 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and SOOOO right on the mark.
» RE: That is SOOOO funny! And SOOOO Right!
Posted by: babka
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HughScott on Jul 7, 2007 9:40 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: The problem with chick flicks is...
Posted by: MartianBachelor
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Posted by: Gerald on Jul 7, 2007 9:44 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"War movies" are propaganda pieces intended to prepare young men to participate in the current or next war. Most of the 4th of July "patriotic" songs are marshal in nature; I remember them well from my 1940's grammar school years. It encouraged my willingness to serve in Vietnam in that tragically wasteful war.
BTW the movie she refers to is "Saving Private Ryan" not "Band of Brothers"
» RE: "Saving Private Ryan" not "Band of Brothers"
Posted by: imcnotu
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Posted by: Amynda M. on Jul 7, 2007 9:57 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She must've struck a nerve. And striking nerves indicates an uncomfortable truth has been revealed. Er- except in cases where negative things about womyn are said. Or stuff about gays. Or stuff about non-whites. Striking nerves in those categories are always bigoted myths and are never mere nerve-striking.
Anyway, it is well-known among us feminists that men are always WRONG WRONG WRONG. Therefore, whatever a man says, the opposite must be right. Except for when they agree with what womyn say.
Furthermore, Gloria is absolutely right and proper to point-out that there is something flawed- indeed, pathological- about anything touched by the contaminant of masculinity. This is proven by the fact that anything we feminists don't like deserves to be excoriated as 'male' and therefore prima facie flawed in some way.
Whenever we feminists use 'male', 'dick', 'masculine', 'boy' or any variant thereof as an adjective, it sure as hell isn't meant as a compliment!
But great article, Gloria! The burden of being correct all the time is a difficult one to bear. Thankfully, we womyn are up to it.
» RE: Some men didn't like the article- THE ARTICLE MUST BE RIGHT!
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Some men didn't like the article- THE ARTICLE MUST BE RIGHT!
Posted by: owleyes
» You're Right! ... Or Wrong! Oh, God, I'm So Confused! ;-)
Posted by: grumble-bum
Comments are closed-
Posted by: owleyes on Jul 7, 2007 10:15 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Logic's Edge on Jul 7, 2007 11:13 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: Petty issue
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» One line
Posted by: kepstein7777
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Billie on Jul 7, 2007 11:27 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» On no, not penis enlargement...penis AND bank account enlargement!
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
Comments are closed-
Posted by: daniel347x on Jul 7, 2007 11:39 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I perceive "chick flicks" not much differently than I perceive Vogue magazine - women are highly objectified, don't look respectable unless they are wearing finely-applied makeup and spotless clothing, and must find ways to hypersexualize themselves in order to "succeed", albeit with an aura of engaging in a more complex set of cultural realities that seem to provide them with a "more equal footing" and more respect as human beings. Only in that context are some subtleties about relationships cultivated in the plot. There are some good articles in magazines like Vogue that delve into human relationships, just as there are some good scenes in chick flicks that delve into relationships, but I think it's a mistake to claim that these movies have any more depth than action flicks or war movies. We live in a culture of superficiality - a culture of materialism - and chick flicks promote it as severely as action flicks. This culture of superficiality - with a guise of deeper complexity - continues to destroy women today, if ever they have been destroyed by sexism and objectification. (I'd like to make a tangential point that provides an example: women have had the right to vote for 87 years, but the value of that vote has been severely demeaned by the expansion of massive media conglomerates that control the election process - the same massive media conglomerates that promote women as hypersexualized garbage, and men as mechanical robots with unsophisticated sexuality).
There are real exceptions in the mainstream media - possibly Gloria Steinem's "Ms Magazine" is one of them, if that could be considered part of mainstream media (I don't read it so I don't have a considered opinion) - and there are some Hollywood movies that might be considered exceptions, too, both in the chick-flick category and in the action-flick category. But I doubt that an airline would play one of these exceptions on its flight.
I think we're barking up the wrong tree if we believe that chick-flicks are any better than fashion magazines or war movies. Feminism has not yet permeated Hollywood sufficiently to look for deeply valuable movies there. I believe the culture today has shifted, so that it is possible to create such movies in today's climate - just as we could use our voting power to vote true progressives into office despite the corporate management of the election process - but we don't. Instead, Hollywood creates movies that still perpetuate objectification of women and men, with an outer veneer of relationship scenes in "chick flicks". But these scenes are about "deep relationships" about as much as scenes about "courage" in action flicks are about true courage - not at all.
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ateo on Jul 7, 2007 11:52 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We can start using "gal movies" instead of "chick flix" if you'd like. It doesn't sound as good and who says "gal" these days anyway?
The reality is some movies appeal more to women than men and some movies appeal more to men than women.
Is it the fact that names exist for these two types of movies that offends you more than anything else?
» RE: So what's the real problem here? Semantics?
Posted by: treehugr
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Posted by: ateo on Jul 7, 2007 11:57 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I get what you're trying to say with the gender of the author's of these feminist works.
Why is literature male dominated? It's not because men are evil and don't allow women to be published, it's because women write garbage such as this article that nobody wants to read.
If women could write as well as the famous male literary figures then I think they would - AND people would read it. Even homosexual male writers have been out performing the feminists for decades (or longer).
» What? Ever hear of Mary Shelley, Zora Neal Hurston, Maya Angelou, etc.?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: What? Ever hear of Mary Shelley, Zora Neal Hurston, Maya Angelou, etc.?
Posted by: treehugr
» Oh, please!
Posted by: lb
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gistre on Jul 7, 2007 12:00 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» Steinem is not a Yenta.
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jul 7, 2007 12:34 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A more reasonable comparison would be 'dude flicks' or 'guy flicks'. Why does the author immediately reach for a gross genitalia term? I won't use any similar words for the female genitalia - what's the female version of 'prick'? (use your imagination)
In reality 'chick flicks' and 'guy flicks' are usually atrocious movies laden with predictable plot outcomes and endless stereotypes. They're the kind of movies dreamed up by Hollywood studio executives based on what films had good sales over the past decade or so. They are awful, pathetic travesties that display the worst aspects of consumer culture (product placement!) for all to see.
Good movies transcend such pitiful generalizations. That's because good movies touch on human experiences that are shared by both women and men.
As far as equal rights goes, let's all remember that with equal rights come equal responsibilities. Prima donna temper tantrums are not going to be tolerated - unless you want to hear yet another vile stereotype: "Just ignore the lady, she's having hysterics."
Now if we could just get women to quit calling men "pricks", and men to quit calling women "bitches"...let me suggest the more neutral term, "a--hole", as in "Dick Cheney and Condi Rice are real a--holes, aren't they?" How about it? You can even make it less offensive by saying it like I spelled it.
» RE: So... should 'chick flicks' now be called 'bitch flicks'?
Posted by: treehugr
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Posted by: Ghoulman on Jul 7, 2007 2:28 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's too bad that Gloria Steinem's clear vision of just how "boxed" women are in mainstream culture isn't widely distributed... and no, I don't think chick lit mistress Oprah will have Gloria on anytime soon. :D
» RE: OTFL! Gloria Steinem, making me laugh :)
Posted by: treehugr
» RE: ???
Posted by: Ghoulman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: EasterBunny on Jul 7, 2007 2:35 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Females top 10
1.The Shawshank Redemption/#2 for males
2.The Lord of the Rings:The Return of the King/#12 males
3. Schindler's List/#11 males
4. The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring/#21
5. The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers/#29 males
6. The Godfather (1972)/#1 males
7. Rear Window (1954)/#17 males
8. Casablanca (1942)/#9 males
9. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (1975)/#7 males
10. Fabuleux destin d'Amélie Poulain, Le (2001)/#41 males
Males top 10
1. The Godfather (1972)
2. The Shawshank Redemption (1994)
3. The Godfather: Part II (1974)
4. Pulp Fiction (1994)
5. Buono, il brutto, il cattivo, Il (1966)
6. Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back (1980)
7. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (1975)
8. Shichinin no samurai (1954)
9. Casablanca (1942)
10. Star Wars (1977)
» RE: men and woman agree!
Posted by: treehugr
» RE: men and woman agree!
Posted by: EasterBunny
» She said in the first paragraph that men and women both voted for
Posted by: adrienne4dean
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Posted by: DaBear on Jul 7, 2007 3:44 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Chick Flicks" are every bit as shallow and formulaic as Action-adventure blockbuster bullshit flicks. The article would have made sense had Steinem focused and clearly articulated the genre aspect she was exploiting. But she didn't, she went off on an incongruous tangent. Every feminist "chick" I know experiences chick flicks the same way as all the feminist pricks I know: they're predictable, trite and shallow and at the same time, tools that make it fun to engage in all sorts of hetero/homo-erotic foreplay. In much the same way, my peers also enjoy the action-adventure bullshit blockbuster films too... it's fun to watch shit blow up and oversimplistic violence and dumbass beatings purport to be "solutionizing" while we wince and cringe that some idiot producer actually thought this was good filmmaking?! And there again, is a foreplay appeal to those films too, though few would dare admit it.
But of course, Steinem would diss all of us Gen-Xers and younger because we're not part of her club. We're over porned and under sophisticated. Hawk tooey. Note the male she castigates is "young".... says it all right there.
Some Steinem-esque logic: I expected more from Steinem, but what can one expect from someone of the Beatles era. Apparently not much these days.
» Yeah, should've given it to Valenti
Posted by: H_H
» RE: Gimme Jessica Valenti over Steinem
Posted by: treehugr
» BEATLES? What do you mean ----
Posted by: WitchyNy
» I totally agree
Posted by: adh
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Posted by: UnEasyOne on Jul 7, 2007 4:48 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Being a movie buff, I've watched dozens (hundreds?) of both kinds.
Instead of engaging in this whose-crap-stinks-worse argument, I'll mention a few obscure movies you night enjoy.
Serial (1980 - satire) You'll laugh your ass off.
Dogs of War (1980 - action) I think Christopher Walken should have won an Oscar for his performance. Made him a star.
FM (1978 - Rock, humor,politics)
President's analyst (1967 - Satire)
Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf? (1966 - Psychodrama)
And if you haven't seen The Graduate, DO IT NOW!
My mind's a blank now, there are lots more.
» RE: Crap is crap
Posted by: treehugr
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Televiper on Jul 8, 2007 6:23 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: WitchyNy on Jul 8, 2007 11:08 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2. Buffy The Vampire Slayer-movie and DVD's-teenage girl slays vampires- to save world.
3. Romancing The Stone--Woman writer saves sister-and outsmarts bad guys.
4. Twister-woman storm chaser leads crew of men- to fight killer tornadoes.
5. Alien Series-woman astronaut -fights aliens.
Usually I find guys don't mind a feminist message-as long as there is lots of adventure, action, and loud noises.
» one more movie-
Posted by: WitchyNy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ladmeaux on Jul 8, 2007 11:49 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its interesting that in her article Steinem shows how sexist she is - she infers that heterosexuals are by definition male. What about women, Steinem? Those men are sleeping with someone - not you, but someone.
And of course, the word "pricks" is derogatory" in a way that "chicks" is not. If that needs explaination, or you don't agree with that, then you do not, whoever you are, understand English.
Alternet keeps trying to resuscitate feminism, but each article that they publish is soooo boring, so over-written, under-thought, and a waste. Identity politics - its sooooo '90s, and almost always just underlines the inherent biases of the author.
» RE: The proof is in the pudding
Posted by: amyliz430
» RE: The proof is in the pudding
Posted by: EasterBunny
Comments are closed-
Posted by: vkobaya on Jul 8, 2007 2:47 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As for why men dominate the great, classic literature, don't deny that women weren't even allowed to learn to read until modern times, the last 200 years. Write? Ha! Truth is most women's writings are still rejected by male dominated publishing houses. Since women have been allowed to go to college, which is really only in the last 50 years, women are not only outnumbering men but dominating their fields.
In the orchestras, male conductors are so prejudiced against women, that all candidates for musicians' positions had to be hidden behind a screen. In school, male teachers are so frightened of intelliigent women they are extremely abusive, when the abuse isn't sexual. I've seen male teachers who refuse to answer a question by female students when they don't belittle them. I remember a couple in college where the guy punched out his girlfriend every time she got better grades. Well ..., they were a couple for a couple semesters. Look at the Neanderthals who think that football scores are justification for proving their physical superiority on their girlfiends.
As for chick flicks versus prick flicks, there is movie critic here in LA who repeatedly has insisted that Gone with the Wind is a chick flick. Oh yeah, and tell me that movies like Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Animal House, Coneheads and pornography movies are chick flicks.
» Fields such as what?
Posted by: ateo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: polyquat50 on Jul 8, 2007 4:56 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Grow up, people. Are you are incapable of discussion on anything other than the most trite, superficial manner? Do you have no understanding of literary device at all? No comprehension of irony? No subtlety in either interpretation or expression?
You don't deserve to have writers of Gloria Steinem's talent posting here. Pearls before swine…
» RE: Once again: No, they don't have couth, nor truth
Posted by: Meremark
» RE: Once again: No, they don't have couth, nor truth
Posted by: Hannibal
» Thank you.
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Once again
Posted by: amyliz430
Comments are closed-
Posted by: halg on Jul 9, 2007 2:21 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» No problem. do you need the lockbox now?
Posted by: Beck
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mjaybee on Jul 9, 2007 11:42 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Actresses are now called "actors" and the Vagina Monologues (sans lesbian pedophile scene) is a hit play after extensive lobbying by female and male vaginas, alike.
Oh, and in chick flicks, there usually is someone dying, dying slowly and mournfully in a Victorian home. It's not clear if they are usually dying of the lame dialog and solipsistic conversations that take place around them in such movies.
Couldn't you focus on some other ludicrous 70's style paleofeminist issue to rant about? Glad you finally got married, by the way.
Even more happy that you didn't have any kids.
» RE: A Man
Posted by: amyliz430
Comments are closed-
Posted by: carends on Jul 9, 2007 5:52 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: what a double standard!
Posted by: EasterBunny
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Posted by: rightwinger on Jul 10, 2007 6:16 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: mcubed on Jul 10, 2007 10:22 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How nice to have an all inclusive label for the movies I don't gravitate toward!
Although I prefer movies where people are not blown up or otherwise dismemberd, I watch many "prick flicks", and have no problem identifying with male protagonists. All us girls were trained to do this in our literature classes, and with most of what's marketed by the mainstream media to adolescent boys.
It's too bad that the guy on the plane couldn't see beyond the movies' lack of violence, and just enjoy it.
"Prick Flicks". Great label.
Thank you Gloria Steinem!
Michele
Comments are closed-
Posted by: syd on Jul 12, 2007 11:15 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: A. Burr on Jul 7, 2007 1:05 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: Black and white generalizations
Posted by: amyliz430
Comments are closed-
Posted by: strahlungsamt on Jul 7, 2007 1:19 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And who is responsible for the terms "Women Novelists" or "African American Novelists" or "Minority" whatever? Women, African Americans and Minorities, that's who. It's not men who give you those names, you do it yourself.
And what's with women getting sawed up? I see more movies where the pretty girl gets absolved from all guilt because she is a pretty girl while the men get their heads blown off. What I wish Feminists would take on is the producers of "Sex and the City". That show is one step forward and ten steps back for Feminism. Men are ok for sex and jewellery but it's still about depending on men for everything in the end. (Sarah Jessica Parker is just the Feminist Ron Jeremy - butt ugly with men inexplicably fawning over her)
If you want to see some real Feminist cinema, check out "I Spit on Your Grave" - woman gets raped, seeks out her rapists and hacks them to death, "Run Lola Run" - total role reversal or "Baise Moi" - 2 abused women go on a rampage around France killing men and shooting up a sex club Wild West style - beats "Thelma and Louise" anyday.
Disclaimer: I'm a straight white guy.
» RE: You talk about Pricks like they're a bad thing
Posted by: JCrowe
» RE: You talk about Pricks like they're a bad thing
Posted by: fork
» RE: You talk about Pricks like they're a bad thing
Posted by: JCrowe
» RE: You talk about Pricks like they're a bad thing
Posted by: bookwoman
» RE: You talk about Pricks like they're a bad thing
Posted by: maestra
» For the love of all that's good in this word...
Posted by: anotheropinion
» Rather, in this world...
Posted by: anotheropinion
» RE: You talk about Pricks like they're a bad thing
Posted by: amyliz430
Comments are closed-
Posted by: EasterBunny on Jul 7, 2007 3:22 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Example 1: Just plain wrong
"Just as there are "novelists" and then "women novelists," there are "movies" and then "chick flicks." Whoever is in power takes over the noun -- and the norm -- while the less powerful get an adjective."
people talk about "guy flicks" and "guy films" all the time.
Example 2: Major unfounded assertions.
"Indeed, as long men are taken seriously when they write about the female half of the world -- and women aren't taken seriously when writing about themselves much less about men or male affairs -- the list of Great Authors will be more about power than about talent."
so all the great authors are hacks that got on the list because of "power". sure. i'll take your word for it.
Example 3: Create a stupid incoherent category of things that gloria doesn't like.
"For example, "prick lit" could characterize a lot of fiction, from Philip Roth to Bret Easton Ellis and beyond. "True prick" could guide readers to their preferred non-fiction, from the classics of Freud to the populist works of socio-biologists and even Rush Limbaugh."
philip roth and rush limbaugh? yeah that's a perfectly natural grouping.
then add in:
"All the movies that glorify World War II."
"All the movies that glorify Vietnam, bloody regional wars, and the war on terrorism."
"All the movies that portray violence against women preferably beautiful, sexy, half-naked women."
"All the movies that insist female human beings are the only animals on earth that seek out and even enjoy their own pain."
"[movies that] provide self-justification and how-to manuals for sadists."
i must be one of those people who seeks out pain since i actually read this idiotic article!
» How can anybody find this article halfway intelligent?
Posted by: H_H
» RE: How can anybody find this article halfway intelligent?
Posted by: treehugr
» RE: How can anybody find this article halfway intelligent?
Posted by: H_H
Comments are closed-
Posted by: marxalot on Jul 7, 2007 3:57 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By that definition, Woody Allen's "Interiors" is a chick flick. No. A chick flick is a movie which focuses on romance as fantasized by young women, often to the exclusion of potentially more interesting plotting.
So prick flicks are everything else? There's a lot of crap movies out there, and occasionally a good one. The good one may even be a chick flick, though I wouldn't bet on it.
» RE: Bad Movies
Posted by: Angry Sam
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Cruella on Jul 7, 2007 4:31 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» Because trite blogs are REALLY fascinating
Posted by: H_H
» No, articles by feminists are really fascinating, aren't they?
Posted by: Beck
» RE: No, articles by feminists are really fascinating, aren't they?
Posted by: thortytoes
» why are there so many idiotic feminist writers?
Posted by: EasterBunny
» That's a fine question, Easterbunny
Posted by: H_H
» RE: That's a fine question, Easterbunny
Posted by: PirateJesus
» Actually, yes.
Posted by: H_H
» RE: why are there so many idiotic feminist writers?
Posted by: treehugr
» RE: ya quoted me on your blog!
Posted by: Ghoulman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: talkville on Jul 7, 2007 4:46 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Dadster3 on Jul 7, 2007 5:42 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: allyourbasearebelongtous on Jul 7, 2007 5:42 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» And the answer is...
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: a deliberately offensive choice of words, Ms. Steinem**CHICK IS AN OFFENSIVE TERM**
Posted by: maribelle
» RE: a deliberately offensive choice of words, Ms. Steinem**CHICK IS AN OFFENSIVE TERM**
Posted by: treehugr
» RE: a deliberately offensive choice of words, Ms. Steinem**CHICK IS AN OFFENSIVE TERM**
Posted by: EasterBunny
» RE: a deliberately offensive choice of words, Ms. Steinem**CHICK IS AN OFFENSIVE TERM**
Posted by: wolfdaughter
» RE: a deliberately offensive choice of words, Ms. Steinem**CHICK IS AN OFFENSIVE TERM**
Posted by: EasterBunny
Comments are closed-
Posted by: naomi dagen bloom on Jul 7, 2007 5:55 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: thank you, gloria
Posted by: EasterBunny
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ankhet on Jul 7, 2007 6:15 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Shakti on Jul 7, 2007 6:16 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you, Goria, for speaking up and out. I miss feminists. I wish there were more feminist voices in the public sphere.
» RE: brilliant!
Posted by: VannaLaRoche
» RE: brilliant! NOT!
Posted by: EasterBunny
Comments are closed-
Posted by: H_H on Jul 7, 2007 6:59 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On the other hand, the Norton Anthology of Literature by Women only chooses the finest authors without regard to their sex. Including such "brillaint" luminaries as Alice Walker and Charlotte Perkins Gilman. The success of either of those individuals surely had nothing to do with their sex and everything to do with their mediocre output.
Oh, and not to mention Mary Shelley, the thinly-educated 17 year old who managed to miraculously write something like Frankenstein after getting married to her famous poet husband Percy Bysshe Shelley who'd do anything for her, and who mysteriously failed to produce anything of comparable value after he died.
» RE: Ooh, fuckin' MEN- we hate 'em!
Posted by: profoflitandtrout
» RE: Ooh, fuckin' MEN- we hate 'em!
Posted by: H_H
» RE: Ooh, fuckin' MEN- we hate 'em!
Posted by: wolfdaughter
» RE: Ooh, fuckin' MEN- we hate 'em!
Posted by: profoflitandtrout
» Are you suggesting there aren't any great female writers out there...?
Posted by: mjabele
Comments are closed-
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 7, 2007 7:12 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» Agree...
Posted by: mjabele
Comments are closed-
Posted by: karyse on Jul 7, 2007 7:15 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One question, where does Kill Bill II fit into the scheme?
I confess to using the term "chick flick." When I do I always mean a film that has a predictable outcome, uses obvious "device" rather than craft, promotes the current ideology wherein it is every woman's dream to be married and spending mega bucks at a wedding makes sense, and presents nothing extraordinary. In short, chick flicks are for young women who believe cultural/fairy tale myths such as "they live happily ever after."
Whenever a word or phrase, whether stereotypical or not, is informative and reflects reality it is useful. Sure I hate that young women believe that what happens in "Pretty Woman" CAN happen, but calling it a chick flick lets me know a priori that the ending is bogus.
» RE: I somewhat agree with
Posted by: treehugr
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LeslieGem on Jul 7, 2007 7:29 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: Right On
Posted by: etherica
» Hi, Beck!
Posted by: Amynda M.
» hey, katalyn! Uh, "Amynda M." Maybe Henry Higgins?
Posted by: Beck
» Right on! - I agree.....
Posted by: mjabele
» DICK flick-Isn't a DICK flick any footage about VP Cheney?
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ellie1 on Jul 7, 2007 7:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: babka on Jul 7, 2007 8:13 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"chops", I am going to recommend that you enroll in our newest class.
It is called "Shock & Awe" - isn't that timely?
I am sure you cannot have helped noticing that a woman has (in many films) only
two scenes in which to make an impression. In the first, she is introduced in all
her sweetness, beauty, provocative sexiness, whathaveyou; and in the second she
is violated and killed in a very bloody manner. Sometimes you will get to play
the corpse of a prostitute face-down in a motel room - sometimes you will have a
bit part, such as "girl steps out of car, gets blown up". Some of you
will get to play a young girl - "Is that my daughtah? Is that my daughtah?"
- post-rape, in a contorted position in a lonely ravine; or fall to your death,
as Lee Remmick did when her little boy the devil pushed her over a bannister from
a very great height. Sometimes you will be raped and killed because you dressed
too seductively, and tempted an otherwise circumspect killer. Sometimes you will
be in your forties, killed so that your husband, the lead, will be able to hunt
down your killer with the help of a lovely young babysitter. Sometimes the new
widower will be left all alone with his nubile daughter until he meets an adorable
twenty-year-old.
In any event, as we all know, acting is re-acting. You must know your screams in
a very competitive market, and you must be capable of nuance. There are very subtle
differences, and if you audition well, and are lucky enough to get a slot in this
class - taught by the prestigious casting director Mona Lusk - you will be taught
these nuances by one unencumbered by stage or film performance experience.
Someone objective. Feel free to practice here as indicated.
You'll learn, for example, the precise scream of a woman who comes home from
the grocery, and finds that her beloved teenaged daughter has been brutally murdered
(scream).
You'll learn how that scream is distinct from the scream of a woman who steps
out of the shower, wipes the steam from the mirror, and sees her killer reflected
in the glass (scream).
Learn the double-scream: you come into the nursery to find your baby missing from
his broken crib (scream 1.) when suddenly a masked intruder stabs you in the heart
with an ice-pick (scream 2.).
It's a tremendous opportunity, and while being seen by Mona will not guarantee
that you will find work in future, well - it can't hurt. The signup sheet is
on line at shock&awe.edu, or, if you like, you can register right now with me.
Good luck, and God Bless!
*************************************************
» RE: shock&awe/dot.edu
Posted by: babka
» RE: shock&awe/dot.edu
Posted by: treehugr
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jiclemens on Jul 7, 2007 8:59 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dornbear on Jul 7, 2007 9:18 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and SOOOO right on the mark.
» RE: That is SOOOO funny! And SOOOO Right!
Posted by: babka
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HughScott on Jul 7, 2007 9:40 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: The problem with chick flicks is...
Posted by: MartianBachelor
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Posted by: Gerald on Jul 7, 2007 9:44 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"War movies" are propaganda pieces intended to prepare young men to participate in the current or next war. Most of the 4th of July "patriotic" songs are marshal in nature; I remember them well from my 1940's grammar school years. It encouraged my willingness to serve in Vietnam in that tragically wasteful war.
BTW the movie she refers to is "Saving Private Ryan" not "Band of Brothers"
» RE: "Saving Private Ryan" not "Band of Brothers"
Posted by: imcnotu
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Amynda M. on Jul 7, 2007 9:57 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She must've struck a nerve. And striking nerves indicates an uncomfortable truth has been revealed. Er- except in cases where negative things about womyn are said. Or stuff about gays. Or stuff about non-whites. Striking nerves in those categories are always bigoted myths and are never mere nerve-striking.
Anyway, it is well-known among us feminists that men are always WRONG WRONG WRONG. Therefore, whatever a man says, the opposite must be right. Except for when they agree with what womyn say.
Furthermore, Gloria is absolutely right and proper to point-out that there is something flawed- indeed, pathological- about anything touched by the contaminant of masculinity. This is proven by the fact that anything we feminists don't like deserves to be excoriated as 'male' and therefore prima facie flawed in some way.
Whenever we feminists use 'male', 'dick', 'masculine', 'boy' or any variant thereof as an adjective, it sure as hell isn't meant as a compliment!
But great article, Gloria! The burden of being correct all the time is a difficult one to bear. Thankfully, we womyn are up to it.
» RE: Some men didn't like the article- THE ARTICLE MUST BE RIGHT!
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Some men didn't like the article- THE ARTICLE MUST BE RIGHT!
Posted by: owleyes
» You're Right! ... Or Wrong! Oh, God, I'm So Confused! ;-)
Posted by: grumble-bum
Comments are closed-
Posted by: owleyes on Jul 7, 2007 10:15 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Logic's Edge on Jul 7, 2007 11:13 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: Petty issue
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» One line
Posted by: kepstein7777
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Billie on Jul 7, 2007 11:27 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» On no, not penis enlargement...penis AND bank account enlargement!
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
Comments are closed-
Posted by: daniel347x on Jul 7, 2007 11:39 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I perceive "chick flicks" not much differently than I perceive Vogue magazine - women are highly objectified, don't look respectable unless they are wearing finely-applied makeup and spotless clothing, and must find ways to hypersexualize themselves in order to "succeed", albeit with an aura of engaging in a more complex set of cultural realities that seem to provide them with a "more equal footing" and more respect as human beings. Only in that context are some subtleties about relationships cultivated in the plot. There are some good articles in magazines like Vogue that delve into human relationships, just as there are some good scenes in chick flicks that delve into relationships, but I think it's a mistake to claim that these movies have any more depth than action flicks or war movies. We live in a culture of superficiality - a culture of materialism - and chick flicks promote it as severely as action flicks. This culture of superficiality - with a guise of deeper complexity - continues to destroy women today, if ever they have been destroyed by sexism and objectification. (I'd like to make a tangential point that provides an example: women have had the right to vote for 87 years, but the value of that vote has been severely demeaned by the expansion of massive media conglomerates that control the election process - the same massive media conglomerates that promote women as hypersexualized garbage, and men as mechanical robots with unsophisticated sexuality).
There are real exceptions in the mainstream media - possibly Gloria Steinem's "Ms Magazine" is one of them, if that could be considered part of mainstream media (I don't read it so I don't have a considered opinion) - and there are some Hollywood movies that might be considered exceptions, too, both in the chick-flick category and in the action-flick category. But I doubt that an airline would play one of these exceptions on its flight.
I think we're barking up the wrong tree if we believe that chick-flicks are any better than fashion magazines or war movies. Feminism has not yet permeated Hollywood sufficiently to look for deeply valuable movies there. I believe the culture today has shifted, so that it is possible to create such movies in today's climate - just as we could use our voting power to vote true progressives into office despite the corporate management of the election process - but we don't. Instead, Hollywood creates movies that still perpetuate objectification of women and men, with an outer veneer of relationship scenes in "chick flicks". But these scenes are about "deep relationships" about as much as scenes about "courage" in action flicks are about true courage - not at all.
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ateo on Jul 7, 2007 11:52 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We can start using "gal movies" instead of "chick flix" if you'd like. It doesn't sound as good and who says "gal" these days anyway?
The reality is some movies appeal more to women than men and some movies appeal more to men than women.
Is it the fact that names exist for these two types of movies that offends you more than anything else?
» RE: So what's the real problem here? Semantics?
Posted by: treehugr
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ateo on Jul 7, 2007 11:57 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I get what you're trying to say with the gender of the author's of these feminist works.
Why is literature male dominated? It's not because men are evil and don't allow women to be published, it's because women write garbage such as this article that nobody wants to read.
If women could write as well as the famous male literary figures then I think they would - AND people would read it. Even homosexual male writers have been out performing the feminists for decades (or longer).
» What? Ever hear of Mary Shelley, Zora Neal Hurston, Maya Angelou, etc.?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: What? Ever hear of Mary Shelley, Zora Neal Hurston, Maya Angelou, etc.?
Posted by: treehugr
» Oh, please!
Posted by: lb
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gistre on Jul 7, 2007 12:00 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» Steinem is not a Yenta.
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
Comments are closed-
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jul 7, 2007 12:34 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A more reasonable comparison would be 'dude flicks' or 'guy flicks'. Why does the author immediately reach for a gross genitalia term? I won't use any similar words for the female genitalia - what's the female version of 'prick'? (use your imagination)
In reality 'chick flicks' and 'guy flicks' are usually atrocious movies laden with predictable plot outcomes and endless stereotypes. They're the kind of movies dreamed up by Hollywood studio executives based on what films had good sales over the past decade or so. They are awful, pathetic travesties that display the worst aspects of consumer culture (product placement!) for all to see.
Good movies transcend such pitiful generalizations. That's because good movies touch on human experiences that are shared by both women and men.
As far as equal rights goes, let's all remember that with equal rights come equal responsibilities. Prima donna temper tantrums are not going to be tolerated - unless you want to hear yet another vile stereotype: "Just ignore the lady, she's having hysterics."
Now if we could just get women to quit calling men "pricks", and men to quit calling women "bitches"...let me suggest the more neutral term, "a--hole", as in "Dick Cheney and Condi Rice are real a--holes, aren't they?" How about it? You can even make it less offensive by saying it like I spelled it.
» RE: So... should 'chick flicks' now be called 'bitch flicks'?
Posted by: treehugr
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ghoulman on Jul 7, 2007 2:28 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's too bad that Gloria Steinem's clear vision of just how "boxed" women are in mainstream culture isn't widely distributed... and no, I don't think chick lit mistress Oprah will have Gloria on anytime soon. :D
» RE: OTFL! Gloria Steinem, making me laugh :)
Posted by: treehugr
» RE: ???
Posted by: Ghoulman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: EasterBunny on Jul 7, 2007 2:35 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Females top 10
1.The Shawshank Redemption/#2 for males
2.The Lord of the Rings:The Return of the King/#12 males
3. Schindler's List/#11 males
4. The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring/#21
5. The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers/#29 males
6. The Godfather (1972)/#1 males
7. Rear Window (1954)/#17 males
8. Casablanca (1942)/#9 males
9. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (1975)/#7 males
10. Fabuleux destin d'Amélie Poulain, Le (2001)/#41 males
Males top 10
1. The Godfather (1972)
2. The Shawshank Redemption (1994)
3. The Godfather: Part II (1974)
4. Pulp Fiction (1994)
5. Buono, il brutto, il cattivo, Il (1966)
6. Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back (1980)
7. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (1975)
8. Shichinin no samurai (1954)
9. Casablanca (1942)
10. Star Wars (1977)
» RE: men and woman agree!
Posted by: treehugr
» RE: men and woman agree!
Posted by: EasterBunny
» She said in the first paragraph that men and women both voted for
Posted by: adrienne4dean
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DaBear on Jul 7, 2007 3:44 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Chick Flicks" are every bit as shallow and formulaic as Action-adventure blockbuster bullshit flicks. The article would have made sense had Steinem focused and clearly articulated the genre aspect she was exploiting. But she didn't, she went off on an incongruous tangent. Every feminist "chick" I know experiences chick flicks the same way as all the feminist pricks I know: they're predictable, trite and shallow and at the same time, tools that make it fun to engage in all sorts of hetero/homo-erotic foreplay. In much the same way, my peers also enjoy the action-adventure bullshit blockbuster films too... it's fun to watch shit blow up and oversimplistic violence and dumbass beatings purport to be "solutionizing" while we wince and cringe that some idiot producer actually thought this was good filmmaking?! And there again, is a foreplay appeal to those films too, though few would dare admit it.
But of course, Steinem would diss all of us Gen-Xers and younger because we're not part of her club. We're over porned and under sophisticated. Hawk tooey. Note the male she castigates is "young".... says it all right there.
Some Steinem-esque logic: I expected more from Steinem, but what can one expect from someone of the Beatles era. Apparently not much these days.
» Yeah, should've given it to Valenti
Posted by: H_H
» RE: Gimme Jessica Valenti over Steinem
Posted by: treehugr
» BEATLES? What do you mean ----
Posted by: WitchyNy
» I totally agree
Posted by: adh
Comments are closed-
Posted by: UnEasyOne on Jul 7, 2007 4:48 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Being a movie buff, I've watched dozens (hundreds?) of both kinds.
Instead of engaging in this whose-crap-stinks-worse argument, I'll mention a few obscure movies you night enjoy.
Serial (1980 - satire) You'll laugh your ass off.
Dogs of War (1980 - action) I think Christopher Walken should have won an Oscar for his performance. Made him a star.
FM (1978 - Rock, humor,politics)
President's analyst (1967 - Satire)
Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf? (1966 - Psychodrama)
And if you haven't seen The Graduate, DO IT NOW!
My mind's a blank now, there are lots more.
» RE: Crap is crap
Posted by: treehugr
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Televiper on Jul 8, 2007 6:23 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: WitchyNy on Jul 8, 2007 11:08 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2. Buffy The Vampire Slayer-movie and DVD's-teenage girl slays vampires- to save world.
3. Romancing The Stone--Woman writer saves sister-and outsmarts bad guys.
4. Twister-woman storm chaser leads crew of men- to fight killer tornadoes.
5. Alien Series-woman astronaut -fights aliens.
Usually I find guys don't mind a feminist message-as long as there is lots of adventure, action, and loud noises.
» one more movie-
Posted by: WitchyNy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ladmeaux on Jul 8, 2007 11:49 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its interesting that in her article Steinem shows how sexist she is - she infers that heterosexuals are by definition male. What about women, Steinem? Those men are sleeping with someone - not you, but someone.
And of course, the word "pricks" is derogatory" in a way that "chicks" is not. If that needs explaination, or you don't agree with that, then you do not, whoever you are, understand English.
Alternet keeps trying to resuscitate feminism, but each article that they publish is soooo boring, so over-written, under-thought, and a waste. Identity politics - its sooooo '90s, and almost always just underlines the inherent biases of the author.
» RE: The proof is in the pudding
Posted by: amyliz430
» RE: The proof is in the pudding
Posted by: EasterBunny
Comments are closed-
Posted by: vkobaya on Jul 8, 2007 2:47 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As for why men dominate the great, classic literature, don't deny that women weren't even allowed to learn to read until modern times, the last 200 years. Write? Ha! Truth is most women's writings are still rejected by male dominated publishing houses. Since women have been allowed to go to college, which is really only in the last 50 years, women are not only outnumbering men but dominating their fields.
In the orchestras, male conductors are so prejudiced against women, that all candidates for musicians' positions had to be hidden behind a screen. In school, male teachers are so frightened of intelliigent women they are extremely abusive, when the abuse isn't sexual. I've seen male teachers who refuse to answer a question by female students when they don't belittle them. I remember a couple in college where the guy punched out his girlfriend every time she got better grades. Well ..., they were a couple for a couple semesters. Look at the Neanderthals who think that football scores are justification for proving their physical superiority on their girlfiends.
As for chick flicks versus prick flicks, there is movie critic here in LA who repeatedly has insisted that Gone with the Wind is a chick flick. Oh yeah, and tell me that movies like Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Animal House, Coneheads and pornography movies are chick flicks.
» Fields such as what?
Posted by: ateo
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Posted by: polyquat50 on Jul 8, 2007 4:56 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Grow up, people. Are you are incapable of discussion on anything other than the most trite, superficial manner? Do you have no understanding of literary device at all? No comprehension of irony? No subtlety in either interpretation or expression?
You don't deserve to have writers of Gloria Steinem's talent posting here. Pearls before swine…
» RE: Once again: No, they don't have couth, nor truth
Posted by: Meremark
» RE: Once again: No, they don't have couth, nor truth
Posted by: Hannibal
» Thank you.
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Once again
Posted by: amyliz430
Comments are closed-
Posted by: halg on Jul 9, 2007 2:21 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» No problem. do you need the lockbox now?
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: mjaybee on Jul 9, 2007 11:42 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Actresses are now called "actors" and the Vagina Monologues (sans lesbian pedophile scene) is a hit play after extensive lobbying by female and male vaginas, alike.
Oh, and in chick flicks, there usually is someone dying, dying slowly and mournfully in a Victorian home. It's not clear if they are usually dying of the lame dialog and solipsistic conversations that take place around them in such movies.
Couldn't you focus on some other ludicrous 70's style paleofeminist issue to rant about? Glad you finally got married, by the way.
Even more happy that you didn't have any kids.
» RE: A Man
Posted by: amyliz430
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Posted by: carends on Jul 9, 2007 5:52 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: what a double standard!
Posted by: EasterBunny
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Posted by: rightwinger on Jul 10, 2007 6:16 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: mcubed on Jul 10, 2007 10:22 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How nice to have an all inclusive label for the movies I don't gravitate toward!
Although I prefer movies where people are not blown up or otherwise dismemberd, I watch many "prick flicks", and have no problem identifying with male protagonists. All us girls were trained to do this in our literature classes, and with most of what's marketed by the mainstream media to adolescent boys.
It's too bad that the guy on the plane couldn't see beyond the movies' lack of violence, and just enjoy it.
"Prick Flicks". Great label.
Thank you Gloria Steinem!
Michele
Comments are closed-
Posted by: syd on Jul 12, 2007 11:15 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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