COMMENTS: 133
Will the Progressive Majority Emerge?
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For as long as I can remember, liberals have been complaining about awkward, self-conscious attempts to recover this "mainstream" sensibility and how they have paradoxically weakened the party. They forced Democratic politicians to become obsessed with polls. That, in turn, boxed Democrats into an identity the public -- the mainstream -- found the most off-putting of all: Democrats became timid. They couldn't pursue a bold public agenda because they were too hemmed in by polls. Very recently, among progressives, a new dictum has emerged: Hug close to the polls, worship the polls, be the polls.
Trends in Political Values and Core Attitudes: 1987-2007, a massive twenty-year roundup of public opinion from the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press, tells the story. Is it the responsibility of government to care for those who can't take care of themselves? In 1994, the year conservative Republicans captured Congress, 57 percent of those polled thought so. Now, says Pew, it's 69 percent. (Even 58 percent of Republicans agree. Would that some of them were in Congress.) The proportion of Americans who believe government should guarantee every citizen enough to eat and a place to sleep is 69 percent, too -- the highest since 1991. Even 69 percent of self-identified Republicans -- and 75 percent of small-business owners! -- favor raising the minimum wage by more than $2.
The Pew study was not just asking about do-good, something-for-nothing abstractions. It asked about trade-offs. A majority, 54 percent, think "government should help the needy even if it means greater debt" (it was only 41 percent in 1994). Two-thirds want the government to guarantee health insurance for all citizens. Even among those who otherwise say they would prefer a smaller government, it's 57 percent -- the same as the percentage of Americans making more than $75,000 a year who believe "labor unions are necessary to protect the working person."
It's not just Pew. In the authoritative National Election Studies (NES) survey, more than twice as many Americans want "government to provide many more services even if it means an increase in spending" as want fewer services "in order to reduce spending." According to Gallup, a majority say they generally side with labor in disputes and only 34 percent with companies; 53 percent think unions help the economy and only 36 percent think they hurt. A 2005 NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll found that 53 percent of Americans thought the Bush tax cuts were "not worth it because they have increased the deficit and caused cuts in government programs." CNN/Opinion Research Corp. found that only 25 percent want to see Roe v. Wade overturned; NPR/Kaiser Family Foundation/Harvard found the public rejecting government-funded abstinence-only sex education in favor of "more comprehensive sex education programs that include information on how to obtain and use condoms and other contraceptives" by 67 percent to 30 percent. Public Agenda/Foreign Affairs discovered that 67 percent of Americans favor "diplomatic and economic efforts over military efforts in fighting terrorism."
Want hot-button issues? The public is in love with rehabilitation over incarceration for youth offenders. Zogby/National council on Crime and Delinquency found that 89 percent think it reduces crime and 80 percent that it saves money over the long run. "Amnesty"? Sixty-two percent told CBS/New York Times surveyors that undocumented immigrants should be allowed to "keep their jobs and eventually apply for legal status." And the gap between the clichés about what Americans believe about gun control and what they actually believe is startling: NBC News/Wall Street Journal found 58 percent favoring "tougher gun control laws," and Annenberg found that only 10 percent want laws controlling firearms to be less strict, a finding reproduced by the NES survey in 2004 and Gallup in 2006.
You suspected it all along. Now it just might be true: Most Americans think like you. Nearly two-thirds think corporate profits are too high (30 percent, Pew notes, "completely agree with this statement ... the highest percentage expressing complete agreement with this statement in 20 years"). Almost three-quarters think "it's really true that the rich just get richer while the poor get poorer," eight points more than thought so in 2002.
If only there was an American political party that unwaveringly reflected these views, as a matter of bone-deep identity. You might think it would do pretty well. Which leads to the aspect of the Pew study that got the most ink: "Political Landscape More Favorable to Democrats," as the subtitle put it. When you compare Americans who either identify themselves as Democrats or say they lean toward the Democrats with Republicans and Republican leaners, our side wins by fifteen points, 50 percent to 35, the most by far in twenty years. As recently as 2002 it was a tie, 43 to 43.
Plunge below the surface, however, and this stirring tale becomes disconcerting. Yes, again and again, the views of independents track the views of Democrats -- more so, in fact, with every passing year. Pew says it's "striking" that 57 percent of independents think government should aid more needy people even at the price of higher debt. In 1994 it was only 39 percent. When asked their opinion of statements like "Business corporations make too much profit," independents answer the same way as Democrats: about 70 percent agree. On questions like "Are you satisfied with the way things are going for you financially?" the chart is amazing: Republicans, independents and Democrats clustered together at 65 and 64 percent in 1994. But Republicans have increasingly answered that question in the affirmative -- 81 percent in 2007. Meanwhile, the lines for independents and Democrats headed down, down, down, nearly in lockstep, to 54 percent today.
Pew says independents are thinking like Democrats, and that fewer and fewer want much to do with the Republican Party. In 1994 independents gave the GOP a 68 percent approval rating; now only 40 percent do. And the percentage of people who call themselves Republicans has dropped from 29 percent in 2005 to 25 percent today. But these people are not signing up as Democrats. The proportion of those who call themselves Democrats has held steady, in the lower 30s.
Here's a riddle: What's an "independent"? More and more, it's an American who holds positions we associate with Democrats but who refuses to call himself by the name. Why? Part of the reason is that people say to themselves, "If only there was a party that thought like me -- that was for harnessing the power of government to help the needy and protect the middle class; for reining in business excess; for fighting overseas threats through soft power instead of reckless force." But they don't find today's Democrats answering to the description. A Washington Post/ABC News poll published in early June proved it on Iraq: It heralded the emergence of what might be called "antiwar independents," who'd like nothing more than to find a party determined to end the war but don't see enough difference between Congressional Republicans and Democrats for the latter to earn their loyalty. Fueled, the Post suspects, by the failure of Congress to change course in Iraq, independents gave Congressional Democrats a 49 percent approval rating in April but only 37 percent in June.
The pattern -- Democrats losing because they don't look enough like Democrats -- is nothing new: During the 2002 election Democrats did such a poor job of selling themselves as better protectors of middle-class interests that Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research found only 34 percent of voters saw a difference between Democrats and Republicans on prescription drug benefits to seniors. That year, when the party was handed a once-in-a-generation shot to prove itself as a protector against runaway greed (the corporate accounting scandals), DNC chair Terry McAuliffe called the swindling firm Global Crossing a "great company."
I suspect there's another reason, however, one much more easily fixed. There is a famous Washington story, perhaps apocryphal, about jovial, "all politics is local" Tip O'Neill. After his first run for local office, O'Neill was gabbing with a neighbor, perhaps someone he grew up with, with whose family his was entirely interlaced in that Boston, Irish Catholic way. He asked if she had voted for him. She answered, "No." Shocked, Tip demanded to know why. "Because you never asked," she replied.
Democrats make a similar mistake these days: They rarely ask the public to vote for them as Democrats. The trend was obvious by the 2006 season, for those who cared to see: The same Pew numbers that now show a 50-35 Democratic/Democratic-leaners advantage over Republicans had the advantage at 47-38 in 2006. Candidates would have earned a premium just slapping the label "Democrat" on their TV ads, but most didn't do it. That fall writers and readers of the website MyDD.com ran an ad watch. Some Democratic commercials failed to mention any of the issues. Bush's war was a disaster; Bush's government was a crony-infested sinkhole; under Bush, the middle class was having a hard time -- these would have been immense burdens for GOP candidates. Other ads, though, were even more frustrating: They mentioned those issues -- but never used the label "Democrat."
It could have been a virtuous circle, a matchless teachable moment: Voter identification with the positions articulated could have translated into a party identification that independents hadn't been inclined to feel before -- a crucial party-building function. But that's just not how the Democratic consultancy class thinks. Their habits were set when they were blindsided by the Reagan presidency and the rise of popular conservatism ("It helped convince me that the national Democratic Party drag was such that good candidates were carrying an albatross around their necks with the words Democratic Party written on it when they went into elections," Will Marshall of the Democratic Leadership Council once said). Democratic leaders, scarred by the 1980s and frozen in the strategies of the 1990s, have repeatedly squandered the opportunities presented by the increasingly liberal sympathies of voters.
Of course, slapping a graphic reading "Democrat for Congress" on ads or reforming the vague shame some powerful Washington Dems feel toward their party -- or even turning Democratic Congress members overnight into tough advocates for bringing the troops home from Iraq -- may not be enough to bring election day tallies in line with the party's fifteen-point advantage in lean and identification. It's a problem with many moving parts. The stubborn oxen on TV and in the establishment media who tell the American people how to think are part of the problem too.
The commentariat tells itself a little fairy tale. As a new report from the Campaign for America's Future (my employer, though I'm solely responsible for the ideas in this essay) and Media Matters for America points out (The Progressive Majority: Why a Conservative America Is a Myth), when the GOP took over Congress in 1994, the New York Times front page claimed, "The country has unmistakably moved to the right." It hadn't; for an excellent study showing this wasn't so, see Ronald Rapoport and Walter Stone's Three's a Crowd, which shows how Newt Gingrich's Contract With America was tailored as an appeal to Perot voters, then retroactively spun as a mandate for conservatism. Ten years later, when Bush beat Kerry by three points, Katie Couric asked on Today, "Does this election indicate that this country has become much more socially conservative?" It was a rhetorical question, for the establishment had set the conclusion in stone long before. Three weeks before the 2006 election Candy Crowley of CNN said Democrats were "on the losing side of the values debate, the defense debate and, oh yes, the guns debate." After election day, Bob Schieffer of CBS said, "The Democrats' victory was built on the back of more centrist candidates seizing Republican-leaning districts." (Tell that to my favorite Democratic House pickup, Carol Shea-Porter, a former social worker who won a New Hampshire seat after getting kicked out of a 2005 presidential appearance for wearing a T-shirt reading Turn Your Back on Bush.) John Harris of the Washington Post, now of The Politico, said, "This is basically not a liberal country." Concludes the Media Matters/Campaign for America's Future report, "Democratic victories are understood as a product of the Democrats moving to the right, while Republican victories are the product of a conservative electorate."
The media have always been this stubborn, even when the conclusions they reached were 180 degrees reversed. In 1964, after Lyndon Johnson swamped Barry Goldwater, pundits said conservatism was dead as a force in American politics, and continued in that arrogant vein for years, ignoring plentiful evidence of the conservative upsurge. They were no less empirically impaired after they were shocked into making the pivot, and they won't turn again until they're forced, kicking and screaming, when the evidence finally becomes overwhelming and undeniable.
An important corollary of the media fairy tale is that the Democrats can't embody the will of the people. As an editorial in the Los Angeles Times explained in 2004, Kerry lost because of his party's "God gap." Once more, the data won't cooperate: A declining constituency -- the devout -- is treated as if it were booming. Pew shows that the number of people who "completely agree" that "prayer is an important part of my daily life" is down six points in the past four years. The number who "never doubt the existence of God" is down eight over the same period. The Barna Group likewise reports, "There has been a 92% increase in the number of unchurched Americans in the last thirteen years" -- a population of 75 million, which is growing: According to the Pew report, "This change appears to be generational in nature, with each new generation displaying lower levels of religious commitment than the preceding one." America, of course, is a religious country -- but 19 percent born after 1976 are either atheists, agnostics or claim no religion, compared with 5 percent born before 1946. Yes, social conservatives are a loud component of our body politic. But the numbers peaked long ago. Pew measures social attitudes via six questions, such as whether schools should have the right to fire gay teachers and whether AIDS is God's punishment for sexual immorality. In 1989 about half of respondents answered at least four of those six questions conservatively. Now, a mere 30 percent do.
Just who are these iniquitous citizens? People who identify themselves as secular or unidentified with a religious tradition represent about 5 percent of Republicans and 11 percent of Democrats. They are a downright heathenish 17 percent of independents. The Pew report has a chart of three descending trend lines of those who answer the social-values questions conservatively. The line for independents is less socially conservative than for Democrats. DLC types love to talk about "swing voters," a group often taken to largely overlap with "independents." Say party centrists, they just don't trust the Democrats -- that "God gap." So Democratic candidates are supposed to wear their piety on their sleeve if they ever hope to creep over 51 percent in an election. The centrists are wrong. Independents are the most secular portion of the electorate.
Of course, the media business also has interests. Those interests happen to coincide with those in our party -- the Democratic Leadership Council is the most notorious -- who have been fighting since the 1980s to make the party more friendly to corporations. The two ostensibly nonconservative cable news channels look more and more like loss leaders for giant corporations eager to signal to other giant corporations that they won't do anything to harm them. There is little other rational explanation for why a network like CNN Headline News keeps on a spittle-flecked right-wing ranter like Glenn Beck (he got less than 60,000 viewers in the 25-54 demographic one recent Tuesday); or in a gentler, more culturally mediated way, why cable news gravitates toward ostensibly nonconservative commentary that posits an ineluctable social conservatism of the electorate as the reason the GOP is the country's natural governing party.
We may not be able to get the media to understand that this is the most favorable climate for liberalism in a generation. But I do know a class of people we might have a better chance of influencing: Democratic politicians -- especially Democratic presidential candidates. But what I'd like to say is a paradox, given what I've been arguing above: Don't pay too much attention to polls, no matter how favorable they may be to the kind of politics you'd like to see. Not just because it keeps you from leading but because it can keep you from winning.
More and more I find myself telling a story I consider the key to understanding modern American political history: that of Ronald Reagan's 1966 California gubernatorial campaign. His expensive, top-drawer consultants had hired a company formed by psychology PhDs who promised that Reagan's would be the first campaign run "as a problem in human behavior." Many liberal interpreters of Reagan's career have pointed to this to suggest that he was plastic, or a pawn, or a manipulator of voters. Not so. In fact, he was the opposite. One of the first things he did was tell all these fancy pollsters to shut up. In his early, exploratory campaigning, he'd been attacking the insolence of insurgent Berkeley students -- who "should have been taken by the scruff of the neck and thrown out of the university once and for all." His consultants told him to knock it off, pointing to their data: Berkeley didn't even show up as an issue. Reagan threw the polls back in their faces: "Look, I don't care if I'm in the mountains, the desert, the biggest cities of the state, the first question is: 'What are you going to do about Berkeley?' And each time the question itself would get applause."
Reagan followed his heart, of course, made Berkeley his signature issue and thumped Edmund Brown in one of the greatest upsets in modern political history (even though the establishment media hated his conservatism then more than they hate our liberalism now, and even though Republican elites were more unmistakably ashamed of the GOP "brand" than DLCers are of the Democratic one now). The technical lesson in this story is that longitudinal polls like Pew's are inherently incomplete. They derive their value from asking exactly the same questions over time, even though the banquet of issues people care about always changes. A politician who goes into battle believing polls can teach him "the issues" is fighting in a static world, which is not the world we live in.
But the more profound lesson is that the greatest politicians create their own issues, ones that no one knew existed. Was the mood in California favorable for Reagan's conservative message in 1966? Obviously, or else Reagan wouldn't have won; he wasn't a magician. But he was -- yes -- a great communicator, confident of his gifts. By listening and interacting with ordinary people, and sniffing out where his own sense of right and wrong dovetailed with what he heard, he divined a certain inchoate mood. It had to do both with a fear of breakdown of the social order and resentment of liberal elites. Finding those frequencies sounding via the trope of "Berkeley," he was able to turn that mood into a political appeal. In that regard, his pollsters could only hurt him. All they knew was that Berkeley wasn't an "issue."
That's the danger of even the best polling: its power to smother intuitive leaders in the cradle. The Pew poll and all the others can only point to the modern electorate's anxieties -- anxieties that have something to do with a sense of breakdown in the economic order, and with resentment of conservative elites. But what story can Democratic politicians weave to repair them? None that they are telling yet. All I know is that to sound the right frequencies, we need candidates who know when to tell their pollsters to stuff it.
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Posted by: bodo on Jul 4, 2007 2:48 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The false left/right dichotomy is on its way out. People are waking up.
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» People Are Waking Up?
Posted by: Sparks56
» So what are you saying? There's no left and right? I certainly notice there is. What no ideology??
Posted by: yellow
» Huh?
Posted by: Sparks56
» And no wonder!
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: False Left/Right Dichotomy Reinforcing BS
Posted by: Linda50
» RE: False Left/Right Dichotomy Reinforcing BS
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: False Left/Right Dichotomy Reinforcing BS
Posted by: Linda50
» Th real battle is between (1) Populist, Middle class, Constititionalist, Noninterventionists and. .
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: False Left/Right Dichotomy Reinforcing BS
Posted by: bodo
» bodo: Most likely your link will NOT be read as AlterNet is NOT peopled by many...
Posted by: poppop_schell
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Posted by: polyquat50 on Jul 4, 2007 3:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: What you need is
Posted by: White middleclass male
» RE: What you need is
Posted by: hagwind
» Ditto hagwind. The Whitemale's strawman is ever greedier. He should try looking at some CEOs!!
Posted by: yellow
» RE: What you need is
Posted by: vertical
» RE: What you need is
Posted by: Lincoln fan
Comments are closed-
Posted by: oneyedjack on Jul 4, 2007 3:46 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Ain't gonna happen
Posted by: fork
» Fork: The Progressive grassroots did stand up and fight twice last week... and WON. How?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: Fork: The Progressive grassroots did stand up and fight twice last week... and WON. How?
Posted by: Gma1
» RE: Ain't gonna happen
Posted by: cbrislain
» RE: Ain't gonna happen
Posted by: fork
» It CAN Happen !
Posted by: Lady X
» LadyX: Yes it can and will happen IF we put Ron Paul in office along with other like-minded...
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: LadyX: Yes it can and will happen IF we put Ron Paul in office along with other like-minded...
Posted by: Lady X
» Ron Paul will give you monopoly capitalism like you've never had it before.
Posted by: justaguy
» justaguy: OK, now show us what specific part(s) of Ron Paul's platform will...
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Libertarian ideology is mechanically impossible to practise.
Posted by: justaguy
» justaguy: Just as I thought... you didn't show exactly where Ron Paul's platform would...
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Oh for gawd's sake poppoff, grow up will you?
Posted by: justaguy
» juataguy: Isn't perceptual projection a neat thing? Telling misinformation like you've done..
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Ron Paul ran as a Libertarian you dolt. Deal with it.
Posted by: justaguy
» Wait a minute Poopface, you don't speak for Alternet's readers!
Posted by: johngary66
» RE: Ain't gonna happen
Posted by: Bozly
» RE: Ain't gonna happen
Posted by: oneyedjack
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Perfectclue on Jul 4, 2007 4:27 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If yoiu ever have taken Western civiliation courses in Freshman college courses, you would know that the American revolution was but an extension of the Age of Reason, and the democratic revolutions that included the English, French, and later European transformation. However, what is always left out in the safe history books both in High School and Universities, for ideological reasons, are that the revolutionary ideology, partularly that of John Locke, and our American version, Thomas Paine,was betrayed and corrupted.
These revolutionary liberals, have very littlle in common with our class liberals today, which justifies, apologizes, through class appeasement, and class ideology, the principle of property rights over human rights, upaid labor, and slavery, for profit, and the class laws that Napoleon put into place, followed by the very first capitalist Empire, when Napoleon marched into Europe and Russia. These class republics or class democracies, with their class ideologies were crippled democracies, whose history would follow the same degenerative class process, that the ancient Greeks noted over two thousand years ago.
Plato already had failed in his utopian attempt to graft democracy onto existing patriarchical class relations and was forced into class myths, "noble lies" and class ideology to put together his Republic. Why will we not learn from the ancient Greeks, what they already understood, that a class degenerative process, that begins with its already crippled social prinicple, and democracy, the class Republic, would degenerat into oligarchy, plutocracy, tyrants(dictators) and class Empire, as it did with the French, English, Nazi, and Amerikan Empire???
We have never had real democracy, in our thousands of years of class rule, and class democracies were established on both imperialism-colonialism and ethnic genocide, which always was based on class rule by an oligarchy, degenerating further into corporate fascism, under Hitler and Mussolini, now the norm today under Late Capitalism, and the Empire of Amerika. Isreal too has this same awful history, and we are seeing the collapse, and the rot of class rule, that are layed hidden underground from the false ideology, class liberalism and neocon class ideologies, and false history which reproduces these false choices. Only a fully developed middle layer, without class masters, and a universal mechanism in place, will reproduce universal standards, the way our patriarchical class mechanism, has reproduced class standards , double standards, and phony democracies. Such a principle would transform not only the Nation Magazine, and its class liberalism, but would transform all class ideologies and thousands of years of class rule.
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Posted by: hagwind on Jul 4, 2007 5:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That would be me, at least when I'm registered to vote -- except that I'm not a "him." I cast my first vote for president in 1972. Bill Clinton, in 1992, was the first presidential candidate I voted for who actually got elected. Trouble was, the guy I voted for wasn't the one who moved into the White House and took the oath of office. Still, holding my nose, I voted for him again in 1996. Never, ever again will I vote for anyone I don't trust or agree with just because the other candidate is worse. I bet there are a few million people out there who feel about Bush II the way I felt about Clinton: that isn't the guy I voted for. Voting, at least in national and statewide elections, is like a religious ritual, like going to services or taking communion. If you don't have faith, it's pretty meaningless. And there are plenty of other ways to work for change.
Entities as big as countries, or even fairly small towns, don't "swing to the right (or left)" or "become much more socially conservative (or liberal)" overnight, or even over a year or two. Those who specialize in reading sacrificial entrails (in this country we call them "polls" or "election results") mistake the glints on the surface for what's happening in the depths of a great body of water. Those who rant on and on about how the entire citizenry is a flock of sheep are just as wrong.
Once upon a time, when I was a devout (dare I say "dogmatic"?) practitioner of Electoralinanity (which, truth be known, probably has as many adherents as any other religion practiced in the U.S.), I believed something similar. I thought that if I knew how a person had voted, or if s/he hadn't voted at all, I knew something significant about that person's beliefs and values. Have since learned (over and over and over) that this is crap. As far as I can tell, how we vote has as much to do with how the people around us are voting as it does with anything else: either we vote like them because they're like us, or we vote the opposite to show our independence. (When everyone in the vicinity is sporting a Kerry button, it may well be the person with the Bush bumper sticker who's the least sheep-ish of the flock.)
I love that Tip O'Neill story. Even if it's apocryphal, it's true. I also appreciate the reminder about Reagan and Berkeley. As a student antiwar activist in the late 1960s and early 1970s, I knew the names of all the Free Speech Movement leaders. They were the trailblazers for me and my friends. Of course Reagan and everyone who voted for him were counterrevolutionary scum. Over the many years since then I've developed another take on the situation; it hasn't replaced the one I had when I was 18 or 20, but it runs alongside it, argues with it, and points out its flaws. That older, wiser view notices not just the expressed politics of liberals, progressives, and leftists; it also notices their attitude toward those of us who have had different opportunities and made different choices and (in many cases) are struggling hard to just get by. The short version is "If you insult me and show no interest in listening to what I have to say, I don't want to be part of your revolution."
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» You Must Be My Age
Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: You Must Be My Age
Posted by: hagwind
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Posted by: EKSwitaj on Jul 4, 2007 6:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Are the Democrats Progressive?
Posted by: Lady X
» RE: Are the Democrats Progressive?
Posted by: yellow
» Flogging a dead horse...
Posted by: justaguy
» Sounds Kinky!!
Posted by: yellow
» Yeah, and it would involve handcuffs for some of the actors too.
Posted by: justaguy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: shangrilalad on Jul 4, 2007 6:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By taking Impeachment “off the table,” Pelosi and Reid have forfeited their right to “leadership” of the Democratic party. Stopping the Cheney/Bush criminal regime in it’s tracks is imperative, and no other issue confronting America is greater than stopping the Almighty Republican Establishment’s national and international crime spree.
"We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality--judiciously, as you will--we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do." Quote by an anonymous Republican.
That quote exactly describes the situation today, for tomorrow, and for the last six years. You can’t stop a national and international crime wave while allowing the criminals responsible for the crime wave free-reign to continue committing crimes. Republicans are burying us alive under a mountain of corruption that’s getting bigger every day.
Demand that Pelosi and Reid step down and relinquish control of congress. They are either unable to understand that stopping a crime wave requires that you stop the criminals, or they are complicit in the corruption.
Leaderless Democrats can’t win the 2008 presidential elections, and leaders who fail to lead won’t be reelected either. We “little” democrats might not be able to punish Republican criminals, but we damn sure can punish incompetent, or suspiciously enabling Democratic “leaders.”
Impeach, or we’ll stay home on election day.
It’s beginning to look that maybe the only way to crush the greater of two evils is to abandon the lesser evil. After that, Republicans will crash and burn a surely as the sun will rise tomorrow.
No pain, no gain.
.
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» Leaderless Democrats and public financing
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» RE: Leaderless Democrats and public financing
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE:shangrilalad
Posted by: Lincoln fan
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Harvfriend on Jul 4, 2007 7:29 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only presidential candidate I find unwaivering is Dennis Kucinich. It is the task of the electorate to nominate and elect more like him who display great strength of character and moral courage, and to sweep out those who make false promises. Beginning on the most local level we must nurture, develop and support those who demonstrate such courage. In the process we may take the media back from corporate dominance, de-privatize the military, take prisons out of the hands of profiteers, attend to civil rights, and foster democratic public education -- to name but a few issues.
There is no percentage in lamenting the gap between the polls and the failure of the Democratic Party. There is, however, the opportunity for the people to choose and re-choose until the seats of power are filled with the compassionate and courageous.
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» RE: Missing element
Posted by: Lady X
» The Missing Brain.
Posted by: yellow
» Yellow: Better do more research on Ron Paul... he is also a Fair Trader like Kucincich. Paul also.
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Oh dear, pooppups mixing his words up again.
Posted by: justaguy
» justaguy: Things that help working people have good paying jobs is...
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Now you are just being an idiot, again. Godwin's law violation.
Posted by: justaguy
» justaguy uses name calling again and claims to be an economist now. Do you have a ..
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Sure you do Pooppy, sure you do.
Posted by: justaguy
» And before you carry on, you compared me to Nazis. That is abusive name calling old man.
Posted by: justaguy
» justaguy: You use the same methods as the Nazi Heinrich Himmler so I assumed I guess falsely..
Posted by: poppop_schell
» That's pretty offensive and wrong.
Posted by: justaguy
» justaguy: Here is the University I taught at for 16 years. Contact any of the faculty...
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Oh that's right old coot. Anyone who disagrees with you is a Nazi or a racist.
Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Your Missing Brain.
Posted by: Lady X
» Ron Paul Is a Reactionary ?
Posted by: Lady X
» Lady X: Thanks for clearing up the word BUT sadly it will make no...
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Harvfriend: Kucinich is a courgeous leader but so is Ron Paul. Both are Progessives..
Posted by: poppop_schell
» A Definition of Libertarianism
Posted by: Lady X
» RE: A Definition of Libertarianism
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» "as long as they do not infringe upon the same rights of others"
Posted by: justaguy
» Your ample description of Libertarianism shows all the reasons it is an unviable political paradigm.
Posted by: yellow
» Huh?
Posted by: Lady X
» In the first place don't put words in my mouth. I never said individual responsibility is selfish!!
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Missing element
Posted by: sport
» RE: Missing element
Posted by: sport
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Sojourner on Jul 4, 2007 7:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Interpreting those answers is, as hagwind writes, like reading entrails. But what else are MSM political writers gonna do when election politics begins two years before the election? With big states moving their primaries upwind, we now need to make a decision 10 mos before the elections? Gimme a break.
Primaries? The only reason they matter is because the political operatives (including pollsters, PR people, and MSM) have nothing better to do.
Not a word mentioned about voter turnout in this article. I wish pollsters would ask, Are you paying attention? Maybe they'd learn that most voters could care less before the party conventions, if then, since the delegates will decide who it is we get to choose from.
Until then, stop wasting our time trying to predict the future. Might as well read the astrology charts.
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» "wasting our time trying to predict our future"
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» "wasting our time trying to predict our future"
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» Lady X. Don't take shit personally. People on this blog let insults flow like beer at octoberfest.
Posted by: yellow
» Lady X: That's true about many on AlterNet. The word decency and real dialogue are..
Posted by: poppop_schell
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sausage on Jul 4, 2007 7:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, they didnot shear their bourgeoise, white, middle-class values and by 1980 many were endorsing Ronald Reagan along with their anti-war hero, Gene McCarthy. The siren song of "personal responsibility" and "limited government" resonated strongly in the breasts these suburban raised, and for many, first-generation college graduates, now rearing their own litter of inheritors of white privilege in the suburbs they once despised.
However, those who remained in the Democratc fold, due in large part to earlier anti-war activism and political networking, rose in the party's ranks and subtlety changed the party's focus. While the rhetoric of the civil rights era remains, Democrats increasingly kowtow to corporate interests and elites. Corporate pandering by Democrats has grown to such an extent that a representative in the Iowa House can say with a straight face ,"...Iowa is kind of leading the parade on deregulation," about a bill freeing telecom giants from state regulation.
Perhaps it is time for new political parties and realignments.
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» RE: "...one political party with two right wings...", Gore Vidal
Posted by: VAGreen
Comments are closed-
Posted by: johnwilkins1672 on Jul 4, 2007 7:44 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) progressive organizations are often very poorly led and competitive with each other
2) they are often led by individuals who don't speak the language - for example, they have a distrust of sports and other forms of mass culture.
3) many prefer ideology to pragmatism
4) some really hate working with religious institutions
5) they seek perfection rather than forward movement
An economically progressive movement that kept the FDA depoliticized, handled abortion "rights" by offering strong prenatal care and support for adoption agencies, and had some marketing saavy on gun control would be useful.
If progressives want to move forward, perhaps they might move to conservative states and speak the language. It is, alas, the language of the religious left.
You don't need to believe in God to speak the language of faith.
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» RE: A few issues
Posted by: Linda50
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Posted by: Knowmad on Jul 4, 2007 7:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you want to find out more about this impending civil and human rights fiasco, and what Canadians are trying to do about it, click the link. And on behalf of Canadian progressives, I'd like to apologise to our fellow Mexicans and Americans for the support our cheneylicking Prime Minister harper has given this corrupt action.
Cheers.
Canada vs the SPP
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» I wish Americans would recognize Canada is an equal
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
» RE: I wish Americans would recognize Canada is an equal
Posted by: hagwind
» Knowmad: Yes the SPP is ablow at Canadian and US soverignty. FYI, Ron Paul is strongly...
Posted by: poppop_schell
Comments are closed-
Posted by: The Butcher on Jul 4, 2007 8:16 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here nothing moving as everyone is focussed on making more money out of China.
Nothing from the US. Nothing is happening is Libby is alongside Paris.
Watching an Empire go down.
USA will never recover what was over-rated status anyway.
Let me as a French-Australian pour scorn on your fat despicable country.
America is a scourge to the world and may the good people of Alternet and of good faith act to make America a dream again.
You are so fucked up!
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» Let me as an American,
Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» Hit a nerve...
Posted by: sausage
» This is our fault how?
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Jul 4, 2007 8:47 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
funny that... & all this time, we thought we were.
Spread Love...
... but wear the Glove!
BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian
"We, two, form a multitude" ~ Ovid
==
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
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Posted by: Lady X on Jul 4, 2007 10:29 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose its freedom; and the irony of it is that if it is comfort or money that it values more, it will lose that, too. – Somerset Maugham
A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money. – G. Gordon Liddy
The United States is a nation of laws, badly written and randomly enforced. – Frank Zappa
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it. – Justice Learned Hand
It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence. – Charles A. Beard
The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. – Thomas Jefferson (1781)
The desire to rule is the mother of heresies. – St. John Chrysostom
Can our form of government, our system of justice, survive if one can be denied a freedom because he might abuse it? – Harlon Carter
It is not the responsibility of the government or the legal system to protect a citizen from himself. – Justice Casey Percell
No one can read our Constitution without concluding that the people who wrote it wanted their government severely limited; the words "no" and "not" employed in restraint of government power occur 24 times in the first seven articles of the Constitution and 22 more times in the Bill of Rights. – Edmund A. Opitz
The government was set to protect man from criminals – and the Constitution was written to protect man from the government. – Ayn Rand
The only difference between a tax man and a taxidermist is that the taxidermist leaves the skin. – Mark Twain
What this country needs are more unemployed politicians. – Edward Langley
I believe that every individual is naturally entitled to do as he pleases with himself and the fruits of his labor, so far as it in no way interferes with any other men's rights. – Abraham Lincoln
Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine
Liberty is always dangerous, but it is the safest thing we have. – Harry Emerson Fosdick
It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones. – Calvin Coolidge
To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. – Thomas Jefferson
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. – Voltaire
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» So Libertarians have good jingle writers and tag lines.
Posted by: justaguy
» Lady X, I'm unimpressed with your list. I know what Libertarians and their beliefs are all about!!
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: gathaiga on Jul 4, 2007 1:17 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Lincoln fan on Jul 4, 2007 2:45 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To get the "government of the people, by the people, and for the people", that is our right, we must first overthow the "government of the people, by the corporatocracy, and for the corporatocracy" that we have.
I believe that the most practicable way to do this is through a massive grassroots movement using the successful tactics of the labor unions.
Bob Reichenbach,
Director, The Lincoln Initiative
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» Bob: It is happening in the Ron Paul Campaign. Jooin the grasroots movement NOW. You have..
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: Bob: It is happening in the Ron Paul Campaign. Jooin the grasroots movement NOW. You have..
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Bob: We agree!!! You work hard for Kucninich and his grassroots approach and I will do..
Posted by: poppop_schell
» I don't see how Ron Paul will fight the global elite when he forms part of that very global elite!!
Posted by: yellow
» RE: The best way out.
Posted by: Linda50
Comments are closed-
Posted by: RobbieUMD on Jul 4, 2007 3:05 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE:MOST AMERICAN'S PROGRESSIVE? Au Contraire
Posted by: kbest
» RE: Au Contraire? yer just making crap up man
Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: MOST AMERICAN'S PROGRESSIVE? Au Contraire
Posted by: kelly.nickell
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 4, 2007 3:08 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: WHY DOES EVERYONE NEED A LABEL?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: WHY DOES EVERYONE NEED A LABEL?
Posted by: Linda50
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Posted by: finleyd on Jul 4, 2007 3:11 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» finleyd: You are very misled if you think that the defeat of Amnesty was just the right wing...
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: Passionate Support
Posted by: kelly.nickell
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ghoulman on Jul 4, 2007 4:15 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's very important to understand that the opinions heard on the media, their myths about Americans, are completely contrived. No facts ever looked up, ever.
I mean, come on, the only reason Katie Couric is anchor of CBfrackin'S is her skill at presenting news as a rhetorical question.
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Posted by: BobbyGreyFriar on Jul 4, 2007 4:22 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a) Transform either of the existing parties into a populist party
b) Create a "third party" that has a broad popular support base (even if this happens the nascent party may be prevented by entrenched power from enacting any concrete reforms)
c) Get rid of the whole deal and replace it with something thoroughly democratic; my preference would be an evolution along anrcho-syndicalist lines
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» RE: When Will the Self-deception Stop?! It is begiining in the Populist Constitutionalist...
Posted by: poppop_schell
» (d) grassroots revolution
Posted by: Lincoln fan
Comments are closed-
Posted by: robchapman on Jul 5, 2007 3:59 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) progressive organizations are often very poorly led and competitive with each other
2) they are often led by individuals who don't speak the language - for example, they have a distrust of sports and other forms of mass culture.
3) many prefer ideology to pragmatism
4) some really hate working with religious institutions
5) they seek perfection rather than forward movement
Take North Carolina for example: it should be a leading progressive State- it has a large University system and a lot of students; a large African American population; a massive number of struggling blue collar workers; and a tradition of independent and strong minded women.
Why isn't North Carolina a leading Progressive State?
Refer to Mr. Wilkins message.
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Posted by: cdriscol on Jul 5, 2007 3:23 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are several ideologies I can pull right off the top of my head that would agree with all or most of the majorities in these polls: Populists, Greens, Socialists, Communists, Social-Democrats, Radicals, Anarchists. . . I could go on and on.
Part of the infuriating egoism and arrogance of Liberals is that they genuinely think there are no Americans to the left of them, and worse, they think there are no other Americans that could possibly better represent the majority of working families than they do. Liberals (who represent about 22 percent of the American people in recent polls!) and the fake “Progressives” in the Democrat Party, who are also, in reality, Liberals, have driven our unions into the ground with their collaborationist attitudes toward big business. They have scuttled every majority mass movement for reform in the last century. For example, a majority favored single-payer national health insurance in 1992, and many of them voted for Bill Clinton based on their mistaken belief that he would bring us single-payer. Instead, he and his dishonest wife offered a convoluted plan, the upshot of which was to protect the biggest private insurance monopolies in the country and to turn over billions of ill-gotten dollars to them to run our health care system. Is it any wonder a majority did not support such a plan?
Listen Liberals: the great majority of working people don’t trust you because you have stabbed us in the back over and over again.
The following is what I think is an accurate definition of Liberalism American Style:
Liberalism: a right-wing political philosophy whose primary aim is to popularize apologetics for plutocracy and imperialism, and to elect careerist politicians on a platform promising to legislate in favor of working people (never fulfilled) while in fact, at the very same time, making secret promises to serve only the interests of multi-national, big-business corporations and the imperialist- plutocrats who run and own them -- in exchange for large campaign contributions and other lucrative "gifts." This political philosophy is known for its "triangulation" strategies, aimed at identifying majority popular sentiments favoring worker-friendly legislation (like single-payer national health insurance) and offering alternative "private-public" plans that divide the majority, confuse everyone, and end up passing no legislation, or legislation that is harmful to working people and forestalls the better legislation working people desire.
Ultimately, Liberalism -- and the so-called Progressives who follow Liberalism -- has functioned as a false public face for plutocracy and imperialism. It is an essential false face for the plutocrats to present because they know they can't rule without at least passive acceptance from the public, the great majority of whom are non- management employees and share none of the pro-big-business interests served by the Democrat Liberal Party. They have so far succeeded in convincing a minority of the public that this is the best we can hope for and convincing another minority that even if it is not the best we can hope for, it is inevitable, i.e., it is impossible to effect significant reforms. For us to gain the reforms we seek, we will have to convince people that change is possible, and therefore that Liberalism/Progressivism is the wrong way to go, a blind alley that only leaves us worse off than before. The first step is to dump the Democrats!
Sincerely,
Chris Driscoll, a proud anti-war, anti-plutocracy, anti-imperialist Populist
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» Spot on....
Posted by: justaguy
» cdriscol: When have true Progressives like Kucinich and Ron Paul stabbed you in...
Posted by: poppop_schell
» sj: Yes it is hypocritical BUT you can't activly endorse and campaign for another...
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: Liberalism is a pretty face for an evil empire
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» Oh My!! How Newt Gingrich & Co. have taught us all to hate the L-Word.
Posted by: yellow
» Yes, but the "progressive liberals" of YOUR party will marginalize Kucinich.
Posted by: justaguy
» Enough with your childish obsession with Zionism. Most Americans don't consider Israel at the polls!
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Roverton on Jul 6, 2007 9:36 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: bodo on Jul 4, 2007 2:48 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The false left/right dichotomy is on its way out. People are waking up.
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» People Are Waking Up?
Posted by: Sparks56
» So what are you saying? There's no left and right? I certainly notice there is. What no ideology??
Posted by: yellow
» Huh?
Posted by: Sparks56
» And no wonder!
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: False Left/Right Dichotomy Reinforcing BS
Posted by: Linda50
» RE: False Left/Right Dichotomy Reinforcing BS
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: False Left/Right Dichotomy Reinforcing BS
Posted by: Linda50
» Th real battle is between (1) Populist, Middle class, Constititionalist, Noninterventionists and. .
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: False Left/Right Dichotomy Reinforcing BS
Posted by: bodo
» bodo: Most likely your link will NOT be read as AlterNet is NOT peopled by many...
Posted by: poppop_schell
Comments are closed-
Posted by: polyquat50 on Jul 4, 2007 3:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: What you need is
Posted by: White middleclass male
» RE: What you need is
Posted by: hagwind
» Ditto hagwind. The Whitemale's strawman is ever greedier. He should try looking at some CEOs!!
Posted by: yellow
» RE: What you need is
Posted by: vertical
» RE: What you need is
Posted by: Lincoln fan
Comments are closed-
Posted by: oneyedjack on Jul 4, 2007 3:46 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Ain't gonna happen
Posted by: fork
» Fork: The Progressive grassroots did stand up and fight twice last week... and WON. How?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: Fork: The Progressive grassroots did stand up and fight twice last week... and WON. How?
Posted by: Gma1
» RE: Ain't gonna happen
Posted by: cbrislain
» RE: Ain't gonna happen
Posted by: fork
» It CAN Happen !
Posted by: Lady X
» LadyX: Yes it can and will happen IF we put Ron Paul in office along with other like-minded...
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: LadyX: Yes it can and will happen IF we put Ron Paul in office along with other like-minded...
Posted by: Lady X
» Ron Paul will give you monopoly capitalism like you've never had it before.
Posted by: justaguy
» justaguy: OK, now show us what specific part(s) of Ron Paul's platform will...
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Libertarian ideology is mechanically impossible to practise.
Posted by: justaguy
» justaguy: Just as I thought... you didn't show exactly where Ron Paul's platform would...
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Oh for gawd's sake poppoff, grow up will you?
Posted by: justaguy
» juataguy: Isn't perceptual projection a neat thing? Telling misinformation like you've done..
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Ron Paul ran as a Libertarian you dolt. Deal with it.
Posted by: justaguy
» Wait a minute Poopface, you don't speak for Alternet's readers!
Posted by: johngary66
» RE: Ain't gonna happen
Posted by: Bozly
» RE: Ain't gonna happen
Posted by: oneyedjack
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Perfectclue on Jul 4, 2007 4:27 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If yoiu ever have taken Western civiliation courses in Freshman college courses, you would know that the American revolution was but an extension of the Age of Reason, and the democratic revolutions that included the English, French, and later European transformation. However, what is always left out in the safe history books both in High School and Universities, for ideological reasons, are that the revolutionary ideology, partularly that of John Locke, and our American version, Thomas Paine,was betrayed and corrupted.
These revolutionary liberals, have very littlle in common with our class liberals today, which justifies, apologizes, through class appeasement, and class ideology, the principle of property rights over human rights, upaid labor, and slavery, for profit, and the class laws that Napoleon put into place, followed by the very first capitalist Empire, when Napoleon marched into Europe and Russia. These class republics or class democracies, with their class ideologies were crippled democracies, whose history would follow the same degenerative class process, that the ancient Greeks noted over two thousand years ago.
Plato already had failed in his utopian attempt to graft democracy onto existing patriarchical class relations and was forced into class myths, "noble lies" and class ideology to put together his Republic. Why will we not learn from the ancient Greeks, what they already understood, that a class degenerative process, that begins with its already crippled social prinicple, and democracy, the class Republic, would degenerat into oligarchy, plutocracy, tyrants(dictators) and class Empire, as it did with the French, English, Nazi, and Amerikan Empire???
We have never had real democracy, in our thousands of years of class rule, and class democracies were established on both imperialism-colonialism and ethnic genocide, which always was based on class rule by an oligarchy, degenerating further into corporate fascism, under Hitler and Mussolini, now the norm today under Late Capitalism, and the Empire of Amerika. Isreal too has this same awful history, and we are seeing the collapse, and the rot of class rule, that are layed hidden underground from the false ideology, class liberalism and neocon class ideologies, and false history which reproduces these false choices. Only a fully developed middle layer, without class masters, and a universal mechanism in place, will reproduce universal standards, the way our patriarchical class mechanism, has reproduced class standards , double standards, and phony democracies. Such a principle would transform not only the Nation Magazine, and its class liberalism, but would transform all class ideologies and thousands of years of class rule.
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Posted by: hagwind on Jul 4, 2007 5:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That would be me, at least when I'm registered to vote -- except that I'm not a "him." I cast my first vote for president in 1972. Bill Clinton, in 1992, was the first presidential candidate I voted for who actually got elected. Trouble was, the guy I voted for wasn't the one who moved into the White House and took the oath of office. Still, holding my nose, I voted for him again in 1996. Never, ever again will I vote for anyone I don't trust or agree with just because the other candidate is worse. I bet there are a few million people out there who feel about Bush II the way I felt about Clinton: that isn't the guy I voted for. Voting, at least in national and statewide elections, is like a religious ritual, like going to services or taking communion. If you don't have faith, it's pretty meaningless. And there are plenty of other ways to work for change.
Entities as big as countries, or even fairly small towns, don't "swing to the right (or left)" or "become much more socially conservative (or liberal)" overnight, or even over a year or two. Those who specialize in reading sacrificial entrails (in this country we call them "polls" or "election results") mistake the glints on the surface for what's happening in the depths of a great body of water. Those who rant on and on about how the entire citizenry is a flock of sheep are just as wrong.
Once upon a time, when I was a devout (dare I say "dogmatic"?) practitioner of Electoralinanity (which, truth be known, probably has as many adherents as any other religion practiced in the U.S.), I believed something similar. I thought that if I knew how a person had voted, or if s/he hadn't voted at all, I knew something significant about that person's beliefs and values. Have since learned (over and over and over) that this is crap. As far as I can tell, how we vote has as much to do with how the people around us are voting as it does with anything else: either we vote like them because they're like us, or we vote the opposite to show our independence. (When everyone in the vicinity is sporting a Kerry button, it may well be the person with the Bush bumper sticker who's the least sheep-ish of the flock.)
I love that Tip O'Neill story. Even if it's apocryphal, it's true. I also appreciate the reminder about Reagan and Berkeley. As a student antiwar activist in the late 1960s and early 1970s, I knew the names of all the Free Speech Movement leaders. They were the trailblazers for me and my friends. Of course Reagan and everyone who voted for him were counterrevolutionary scum. Over the many years since then I've developed another take on the situation; it hasn't replaced the one I had when I was 18 or 20, but it runs alongside it, argues with it, and points out its flaws. That older, wiser view notices not just the expressed politics of liberals, progressives, and leftists; it also notices their attitude toward those of us who have had different opportunities and made different choices and (in many cases) are struggling hard to just get by. The short version is "If you insult me and show no interest in listening to what I have to say, I don't want to be part of your revolution."
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» You Must Be My Age
Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: You Must Be My Age
Posted by: hagwind
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Posted by: EKSwitaj on Jul 4, 2007 6:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Are the Democrats Progressive?
Posted by: Lady X
» RE: Are the Democrats Progressive?
Posted by: yellow
» Flogging a dead horse...
Posted by: justaguy
» Sounds Kinky!!
Posted by: yellow
» Yeah, and it would involve handcuffs for some of the actors too.
Posted by: justaguy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: shangrilalad on Jul 4, 2007 6:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By taking Impeachment “off the table,” Pelosi and Reid have forfeited their right to “leadership” of the Democratic party. Stopping the Cheney/Bush criminal regime in it’s tracks is imperative, and no other issue confronting America is greater than stopping the Almighty Republican Establishment’s national and international crime spree.
"We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality--judiciously, as you will--we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do." Quote by an anonymous Republican.
That quote exactly describes the situation today, for tomorrow, and for the last six years. You can’t stop a national and international crime wave while allowing the criminals responsible for the crime wave free-reign to continue committing crimes. Republicans are burying us alive under a mountain of corruption that’s getting bigger every day.
Demand that Pelosi and Reid step down and relinquish control of congress. They are either unable to understand that stopping a crime wave requires that you stop the criminals, or they are complicit in the corruption.
Leaderless Democrats can’t win the 2008 presidential elections, and leaders who fail to lead won’t be reelected either. We “little” democrats might not be able to punish Republican criminals, but we damn sure can punish incompetent, or suspiciously enabling Democratic “leaders.”
Impeach, or we’ll stay home on election day.
It’s beginning to look that maybe the only way to crush the greater of two evils is to abandon the lesser evil. After that, Republicans will crash and burn a surely as the sun will rise tomorrow.
No pain, no gain.
.
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» Leaderless Democrats and public financing
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» RE: Leaderless Democrats and public financing
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE:shangrilalad
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: Harvfriend on Jul 4, 2007 7:29 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only presidential candidate I find unwaivering is Dennis Kucinich. It is the task of the electorate to nominate and elect more like him who display great strength of character and moral courage, and to sweep out those who make false promises. Beginning on the most local level we must nurture, develop and support those who demonstrate such courage. In the process we may take the media back from corporate dominance, de-privatize the military, take prisons out of the hands of profiteers, attend to civil rights, and foster democratic public education -- to name but a few issues.
There is no percentage in lamenting the gap between the polls and the failure of the Democratic Party. There is, however, the opportunity for the people to choose and re-choose until the seats of power are filled with the compassionate and courageous.
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» RE: Missing element
Posted by: Lady X
» The Missing Brain.
Posted by: yellow
» Yellow: Better do more research on Ron Paul... he is also a Fair Trader like Kucincich. Paul also.
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Oh dear, pooppups mixing his words up again.
Posted by: justaguy
» justaguy: Things that help working people have good paying jobs is...
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Now you are just being an idiot, again. Godwin's law violation.
Posted by: justaguy
» justaguy uses name calling again and claims to be an economist now. Do you have a ..
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Sure you do Pooppy, sure you do.
Posted by: justaguy
» And before you carry on, you compared me to Nazis. That is abusive name calling old man.
Posted by: justaguy
» justaguy: You use the same methods as the Nazi Heinrich Himmler so I assumed I guess falsely..
Posted by: poppop_schell
» That's pretty offensive and wrong.
Posted by: justaguy
» justaguy: Here is the University I taught at for 16 years. Contact any of the faculty...
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Oh that's right old coot. Anyone who disagrees with you is a Nazi or a racist.
Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Your Missing Brain.
Posted by: Lady X
» Ron Paul Is a Reactionary ?
Posted by: Lady X
» Lady X: Thanks for clearing up the word BUT sadly it will make no...
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Harvfriend: Kucinich is a courgeous leader but so is Ron Paul. Both are Progessives..
Posted by: poppop_schell
» A Definition of Libertarianism
Posted by: Lady X
» RE: A Definition of Libertarianism
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» "as long as they do not infringe upon the same rights of others"
Posted by: justaguy
» Your ample description of Libertarianism shows all the reasons it is an unviable political paradigm.
Posted by: yellow
» Huh?
Posted by: Lady X
» In the first place don't put words in my mouth. I never said individual responsibility is selfish!!
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Missing element
Posted by: sport
» RE: Missing element
Posted by: sport
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Sojourner on Jul 4, 2007 7:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Interpreting those answers is, as hagwind writes, like reading entrails. But what else are MSM political writers gonna do when election politics begins two years before the election? With big states moving their primaries upwind, we now need to make a decision 10 mos before the elections? Gimme a break.
Primaries? The only reason they matter is because the political operatives (including pollsters, PR people, and MSM) have nothing better to do.
Not a word mentioned about voter turnout in this article. I wish pollsters would ask, Are you paying attention? Maybe they'd learn that most voters could care less before the party conventions, if then, since the delegates will decide who it is we get to choose from.
Until then, stop wasting our time trying to predict the future. Might as well read the astrology charts.
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» "wasting our time trying to predict our future"
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» "wasting our time trying to predict our future"
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» Lady X. Don't take shit personally. People on this blog let insults flow like beer at octoberfest.
Posted by: yellow
» Lady X: That's true about many on AlterNet. The word decency and real dialogue are..
Posted by: poppop_schell
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sausage on Jul 4, 2007 7:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, they didnot shear their bourgeoise, white, middle-class values and by 1980 many were endorsing Ronald Reagan along with their anti-war hero, Gene McCarthy. The siren song of "personal responsibility" and "limited government" resonated strongly in the breasts these suburban raised, and for many, first-generation college graduates, now rearing their own litter of inheritors of white privilege in the suburbs they once despised.
However, those who remained in the Democratc fold, due in large part to earlier anti-war activism and political networking, rose in the party's ranks and subtlety changed the party's focus. While the rhetoric of the civil rights era remains, Democrats increasingly kowtow to corporate interests and elites. Corporate pandering by Democrats has grown to such an extent that a representative in the Iowa House can say with a straight face ,"...Iowa is kind of leading the parade on deregulation," about a bill freeing telecom giants from state regulation.
Perhaps it is time for new political parties and realignments.
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» RE: "...one political party with two right wings...", Gore Vidal
Posted by: VAGreen
Comments are closed-
Posted by: johnwilkins1672 on Jul 4, 2007 7:44 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) progressive organizations are often very poorly led and competitive with each other
2) they are often led by individuals who don't speak the language - for example, they have a distrust of sports and other forms of mass culture.
3) many prefer ideology to pragmatism
4) some really hate working with religious institutions
5) they seek perfection rather than forward movement
An economically progressive movement that kept the FDA depoliticized, handled abortion "rights" by offering strong prenatal care and support for adoption agencies, and had some marketing saavy on gun control would be useful.
If progressives want to move forward, perhaps they might move to conservative states and speak the language. It is, alas, the language of the religious left.
You don't need to believe in God to speak the language of faith.
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» RE: A few issues
Posted by: Linda50
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Knowmad on Jul 4, 2007 7:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you want to find out more about this impending civil and human rights fiasco, and what Canadians are trying to do about it, click the link. And on behalf of Canadian progressives, I'd like to apologise to our fellow Mexicans and Americans for the support our cheneylicking Prime Minister harper has given this corrupt action.
Cheers.
Canada vs the SPP
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» I wish Americans would recognize Canada is an equal
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
» RE: I wish Americans would recognize Canada is an equal
Posted by: hagwind
» Knowmad: Yes the SPP is ablow at Canadian and US soverignty. FYI, Ron Paul is strongly...
Posted by: poppop_schell
Comments are closed-
Posted by: The Butcher on Jul 4, 2007 8:16 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here nothing moving as everyone is focussed on making more money out of China.
Nothing from the US. Nothing is happening is Libby is alongside Paris.
Watching an Empire go down.
USA will never recover what was over-rated status anyway.
Let me as a French-Australian pour scorn on your fat despicable country.
America is a scourge to the world and may the good people of Alternet and of good faith act to make America a dream again.
You are so fucked up!
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» Let me as an American,
Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» Hit a nerve...
Posted by: sausage
» This is our fault how?
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Jul 4, 2007 8:47 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
funny that... & all this time, we thought we were.
Spread Love...
... but wear the Glove!
BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian
"We, two, form a multitude" ~ Ovid
==
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
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Posted by: Lady X on Jul 4, 2007 10:29 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose its freedom; and the irony of it is that if it is comfort or money that it values more, it will lose that, too. – Somerset Maugham
A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money. – G. Gordon Liddy
The United States is a nation of laws, badly written and randomly enforced. – Frank Zappa
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it. – Justice Learned Hand
It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence. – Charles A. Beard
The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. – Thomas Jefferson (1781)
The desire to rule is the mother of heresies. – St. John Chrysostom
Can our form of government, our system of justice, survive if one can be denied a freedom because he might abuse it? – Harlon Carter
It is not the responsibility of the government or the legal system to protect a citizen from himself. – Justice Casey Percell
No one can read our Constitution without concluding that the people who wrote it wanted their government severely limited; the words "no" and "not" employed in restraint of government power occur 24 times in the first seven articles of the Constitution and 22 more times in the Bill of Rights. – Edmund A. Opitz
The government was set to protect man from criminals – and the Constitution was written to protect man from the government. – Ayn Rand
The only difference between a tax man and a taxidermist is that the taxidermist leaves the skin. – Mark Twain
What this country needs are more unemployed politicians. – Edward Langley
I believe that every individual is naturally entitled to do as he pleases with himself and the fruits of his labor, so far as it in no way interferes with any other men's rights. – Abraham Lincoln
Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine
Liberty is always dangerous, but it is the safest thing we have. – Harry Emerson Fosdick
It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones. – Calvin Coolidge
To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. – Thomas Jefferson
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. – Voltaire
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» So Libertarians have good jingle writers and tag lines.
Posted by: justaguy
» Lady X, I'm unimpressed with your list. I know what Libertarians and their beliefs are all about!!
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: gathaiga on Jul 4, 2007 1:17 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Lincoln fan on Jul 4, 2007 2:45 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To get the "government of the people, by the people, and for the people", that is our right, we must first overthow the "government of the people, by the corporatocracy, and for the corporatocracy" that we have.
I believe that the most practicable way to do this is through a massive grassroots movement using the successful tactics of the labor unions.
Bob Reichenbach,
Director, The Lincoln Initiative
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» Bob: It is happening in the Ron Paul Campaign. Jooin the grasroots movement NOW. You have..
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: Bob: It is happening in the Ron Paul Campaign. Jooin the grasroots movement NOW. You have..
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Bob: We agree!!! You work hard for Kucninich and his grassroots approach and I will do..
Posted by: poppop_schell
» I don't see how Ron Paul will fight the global elite when he forms part of that very global elite!!
Posted by: yellow
» RE: The best way out.
Posted by: Linda50
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Posted by: RobbieUMD on Jul 4, 2007 3:05 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE:MOST AMERICAN'S PROGRESSIVE? Au Contraire
Posted by: kbest
» RE: Au Contraire? yer just making crap up man
Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: MOST AMERICAN'S PROGRESSIVE? Au Contraire
Posted by: kelly.nickell
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 4, 2007 3:08 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: WHY DOES EVERYONE NEED A LABEL?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: WHY DOES EVERYONE NEED A LABEL?
Posted by: Linda50
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Posted by: finleyd on Jul 4, 2007 3:11 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» finleyd: You are very misled if you think that the defeat of Amnesty was just the right wing...
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: Passionate Support
Posted by: kelly.nickell
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ghoulman on Jul 4, 2007 4:15 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's very important to understand that the opinions heard on the media, their myths about Americans, are completely contrived. No facts ever looked up, ever.
I mean, come on, the only reason Katie Couric is anchor of CBfrackin'S is her skill at presenting news as a rhetorical question.
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Posted by: BobbyGreyFriar on Jul 4, 2007 4:22 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a) Transform either of the existing parties into a populist party
b) Create a "third party" that has a broad popular support base (even if this happens the nascent party may be prevented by entrenched power from enacting any concrete reforms)
c) Get rid of the whole deal and replace it with something thoroughly democratic; my preference would be an evolution along anrcho-syndicalist lines
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» RE: When Will the Self-deception Stop?! It is begiining in the Populist Constitutionalist...
Posted by: poppop_schell
» (d) grassroots revolution
Posted by: Lincoln fan
Comments are closed-
Posted by: robchapman on Jul 5, 2007 3:59 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) progressive organizations are often very poorly led and competitive with each other
2) they are often led by individuals who don't speak the language - for example, they have a distrust of sports and other forms of mass culture.
3) many prefer ideology to pragmatism
4) some really hate working with religious institutions
5) they seek perfection rather than forward movement
Take North Carolina for example: it should be a leading progressive State- it has a large University system and a lot of students; a large African American population; a massive number of struggling blue collar workers; and a tradition of independent and strong minded women.
Why isn't North Carolina a leading Progressive State?
Refer to Mr. Wilkins message.
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Posted by: cdriscol on Jul 5, 2007 3:23 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are several ideologies I can pull right off the top of my head that would agree with all or most of the majorities in these polls: Populists, Greens, Socialists, Communists, Social-Democrats, Radicals, Anarchists. . . I could go on and on.
Part of the infuriating egoism and arrogance of Liberals is that they genuinely think there are no Americans to the left of them, and worse, they think there are no other Americans that could possibly better represent the majority of working families than they do. Liberals (who represent about 22 percent of the American people in recent polls!) and the fake “Progressives” in the Democrat Party, who are also, in reality, Liberals, have driven our unions into the ground with their collaborationist attitudes toward big business. They have scuttled every majority mass movement for reform in the last century. For example, a majority favored single-payer national health insurance in 1992, and many of them voted for Bill Clinton based on their mistaken belief that he would bring us single-payer. Instead, he and his dishonest wife offered a convoluted plan, the upshot of which was to protect the biggest private insurance monopolies in the country and to turn over billions of ill-gotten dollars to them to run our health care system. Is it any wonder a majority did not support such a plan?
Listen Liberals: the great majority of working people don’t trust you because you have stabbed us in the back over and over again.
The following is what I think is an accurate definition of Liberalism American Style:
Liberalism: a right-wing political philosophy whose primary aim is to popularize apologetics for plutocracy and imperialism, and to elect careerist politicians on a platform promising to legislate in favor of working people (never fulfilled) while in fact, at the very same time, making secret promises to serve only the interests of multi-national, big-business corporations and the imperialist- plutocrats who run and own them -- in exchange for large campaign contributions and other lucrative "gifts." This political philosophy is known for its "triangulation" strategies, aimed at identifying majority popular sentiments favoring worker-friendly legislation (like single-payer national health insurance) and offering alternative "private-public" plans that divide the majority, confuse everyone, and end up passing no legislation, or legislation that is harmful to working people and forestalls the better legislation working people desire.
Ultimately, Liberalism -- and the so-called Progressives who follow Liberalism -- has functioned as a false public face for plutocracy and imperialism. It is an essential false face for the plutocrats to present because they know they can't rule without at least passive acceptance from the public, the great majority of whom are non- management employees and share none of the pro-big-business interests served by the Democrat Liberal Party. They have so far succeeded in convincing a minority of the public that this is the best we can hope for and convincing another minority that even if it is not the best we can hope for, it is inevitable, i.e., it is impossible to effect significant reforms. For us to gain the reforms we seek, we will have to convince people that change is possible, and therefore that Liberalism/Progressivism is the wrong way to go, a blind alley that only leaves us worse off than before. The first step is to dump the Democrats!
Sincerely,
Chris Driscoll, a proud anti-war, anti-plutocracy, anti-imperialist Populist
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» Spot on....
Posted by: justaguy
» cdriscol: When have true Progressives like Kucinich and Ron Paul stabbed you in...
Posted by: poppop_schell
» sj: Yes it is hypocritical BUT you can't activly endorse and campaign for another...
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: Liberalism is a pretty face for an evil empire
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» Oh My!! How Newt Gingrich & Co. have taught us all to hate the L-Word.
Posted by: yellow
» Yes, but the "progressive liberals" of YOUR party will marginalize Kucinich.
Posted by: justaguy
» Enough with your childish obsession with Zionism. Most Americans don't consider Israel at the polls!
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Roverton on Jul 6, 2007 9:36 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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