COMMENTS: 89
The Media Escalates Its Lies about Iran
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See? It's just the "packaging." They've got solid proof, and they're even being extra careful in presenting it to us, because we were so hard on them last time. In fact, you can tell just how careful these senior officials are being from the fact that in all the articles in all the newspapers, so many of them (or is it all one guy?) are never identified by name.
The New York Times has even abandoned its stated policies in order to rush these careful claims out without naming any sources. Jonathan Schwarz has argued that the unsourced "reporting" of Michael Gordon, whose Times piece this Sunday on Iran's supposed connection to Iraqi insurgents was recently attacked for this, is hardly distinct from the transcribed statements anonymous government officials might leave on a voice-activated answering machine.
Gordon defended himself in an e-mail exchange with a Times reader this weekend, in which the reporter explained:
"I am well aware of the controversy over the WMD intel. I think this case is different. The US intelligence community is not on the outside looking in, as was the case with the WMD intel. The US is in Iraq and this largely reflects intelligence gathered on the battefield. At any rate, I spend some time talking to a range of officials on this issue and quoted the intel reports accurately." [sic]So, you see? This case is different. This time we can trust the "intelligence" sources. Because, last time, we'd merely had crews of trained inspectors swarming the country for years, and they reported confidently that there weren't any WMD there. This time, we have amateurs observing the situation in the middle of guerrilla warfare, and they say they've got the goods but can't reveal them. So, you see, it's different.
The headline on the AP story mentioned above reads "U.S. Considers Proof About Iran: Government Weighs How Much to Divulge About Iraq Connection." The authors of the piece, Katherine Shrader and Anne Gearan, assure us that there is 200 pages of proof, but that sadly and inexplicably it's classified. Of course, "No one who has seen the files has suggested the evidence is thin." Another way to say this might be: "No one who would suggest the evidence was thin has been permitted to see the files." It sounds less impressive that way though.
Who has seen the 200 pages? Well, Shrader and Gearan report that "officials from several intelligence agencies scrutinized the presentation to make sure it was clear and that 'we don't in any way jeopardize our sources and methods in making the presentation,' State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said." Now, does anyone recall any concerns that previous presentations have been unclear? My memory suggests that the reason for the "drubbing the administration took" was that they blatantly lied, not that they wrote poorly. And, since when does one PR flack at the State Department get to explain the concerns of several intelligence agencies?
National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley claims the White House is the reason for the delay in making public the "proof," and he claims the White House is trying to get the intelligence community (is it really a community?) to weaken, not strengthen, its claims. However, the National Journal reports:
At least twice in the past month, the White House has delayed a PowerPoint presentation initially prepared by the military to detail evidence of suspected Iranian materiel and financial support for militants in Iraq. The presentation was to have been made at a press conference in Baghdad in the first week of February. Officials have set no new date, but they say it could be any day.
Even as U.S. officials in Baghdad were ready to make the case, administration principals in Washington who were charged with vetting the PowerPoint dossier bowed to pressure from the intelligence community and ordered that it be scrubbed again.Shrader and Gearan at the AP seem to agree that the "intelligence" services, not the White House, caused the delay. Of course, we all would know this without being told if we simply stopped to think for a moment. The Shrader and Gearan article also says:
Privately, officials say they want to avoid the kind of gaffe akin to former Secretary of State Colin Powell's case for war before the United Nations in 2003.Well that's lovely, and it's nice of them to make their "private" comments so ... um, publicly. But do they have no concern over avoiding the kind of "gaffe" President Bush made in his 2002 speech in Cincinnati or on numerous television appearances and in a memorable State of the Union address, or the kind of "gaffes" that Cheney and Rice made over and over again to assure the public and the Congress that Iraq had WMD and ties to 9-11? In other words, has anybody noticed that the same people are still in charge who lied us into the last war?
Now, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates is out and about claiming that he's got serial numbers that amount to "pretty good" proof of Iranian support for Iraqis. And someone has shown something to select Congress Members, resulting in Connecticut Senator Joe Lieberman declaring "I'm convinced from what I've seen that the Iranians are supplying and are giving assistance to the people in Iraq who are killing American soldiers." Lieberman, by the way, voted for the last war, and said recently that he does not regret that vote, supports escalating the war, and opposes setting any date by which to end it.
Among the things we have not fully looked into yet are, not only the way the White House sold the last war but also the way the media lapped up those lies. As Gilbert Cranberg, George H. Gallup Professor of Journalism Emeritus at the University of Iowa School of Journalism, asked recently, "Why did the Associated Press wait six months, when the body count began to rise, to distribute a major piece by AP's Charles Hanley challenging Powell's evidence and why did Hanley say how frustrating it had been until then to break through the self-censorship imposed by his editors on negative news about Iraq?"
More urgently, why -- after the AP published a /www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/3531">full debunking by Hanley of the last war's lies -- is the AP playing along with the new ones? Is this all part of selling us on the idea that the old ones don't matter? It's likely to have the effect of making them matter even more. The current display of media credulity in the face of an absence of evidence is serving to remind the public of how we got into the war in Iraq that continues and worsens to this day.
The collection of Iran War Lies is starting to catch up with the endless list of Iraq War Lies.
But let's keep one thing in mind as we demand a thorough investigation of both sets of lies -- lies made by the same set of people: In neither case, even if every single claim were 100 percent true and accurate, would there have been established a legal case for war. If a nation's possession of WMDs were grounds for launching a war against it, the United States would be subject to legal invasion immediately.
So, while debunking the fanciful claims of Bush, Cheney, and Gates may be entertaining, we may actually do more good if we brush them aside and point out that it does not matter whether their claims are true or not. Aiding a nation in repelling a foreign occupation is not grounds for war. The U.S. still brags about having done this in France 60 years ago. If Iran were doing it in Iraq now, which no evidence yet suggests, the crime would lie in the foreign invaders' refusal to leave, not in the aide supplied by the Iranians.
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Feb 12, 2007 12:21 AM
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The US has never had decent human intelligence in the Middle East/SW Asia and has instead relied upon satellites and signals intelligence plus 3rd party human intel. When you rely upon the intel from another nation, how do you know it is accurate, plausible or unfiltered? You don't.
Under the best of situations (President wise) it's as dodgy as hell, with BushCo it's like giving matches and gasoline to a toddler.
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» RE: Since When?
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Since When?
Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: Since When?
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Since When?
Posted by: blitzmesser
» Crayons anyone!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Huh?
Posted by:
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: NoPCZone
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: willymack
» RE: Since When?
Posted by: pomes
» RE: Since When?
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Since When?
Posted by: Knowmad
» Please do some research.....
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Please stop, my sides are hurting . . .
Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: Please stop, my sides are hurting . . .
Posted by: Conservasaurus
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Posted by: edith on Feb 12, 2007 1:12 AM
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Removal of US forces from the Persian Gulf region takes the steam out of Iran and Al Queda. The Arab states won't passively sit by and allow the Iranian Army to roll from Tehran to Jerusalem. US presence in the Middle East simply allows the mullahs to distract Iranians' from their miserable, incompetent economy.
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» RE: ven if it's true..
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: ven if it's true..
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: ven if it's true..
Posted by: Arvy
» RE: ven if it's true..
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: ven if it's true..
Posted by: Arvy
» RE: ven if it's true..
Posted by: justaguy
» RE: ven if it's true..
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: ven if it's true..
Posted by: justaguy
» RE: ven if it's true..
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: ven if it's true..
Posted by: justaguy
» RE: ven if it's true..
Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: ven if it's true..
Posted by: Arvy
» RE: Axis of Evil Changed Everything
Posted by: edgar_michel
» RE: Axis of Evil Changed Everything
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Axis of Evil Changed Everything
Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Axis of Evil Changed Everything
Posted by: Arvy
» RE: Axis of Evil Changed Everything
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Axis of Evil Changed Everything
Posted by: Arvy
» RE: This is Evil here too
Posted by: Mycos
» RE: Axis of Evil Changed Everything
Posted by: Mycos
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Posted by: cordas on Feb 12, 2007 1:53 AM
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This is exactly what was done in the lead up to the 2nd Gulf / Iraq War. Spurious intelligence was used misused abused and blatently made up, threats where made (both verbal and physical) until the "world" was convinced that not only was a war inevitable but it was the only viable option. The same is happening again, the only question is who will break first and launch the 1st attack the Isrealies or the US, I don't think it will be the Iranians, no matter how hard bush pushes them.
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» RE: Who are these "intelligence people"
Posted by: edgar_michel
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Posted by: polyquat50 on Feb 12, 2007 1:55 AM
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I was flabbergasted last weeks about US govt remarks about Iran 'interfering' in Iraq. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
If the bully from downtown starts beating up your neighbours, you're supposed to turn a blind eye? Or is that what is meant by "the American way"? Matches with what is obviously the vision of 'truth' and 'justice'. May be we should rephrase the famous quote – “Truth and Justice, the American Way” (wink, wink, nudge, nudge).
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» it's not what's happening it's what to DO about it
Posted by: ibemee
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Posted by: reinaldok on Feb 12, 2007 4:05 AM
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The NY Times has because of its own ignorance or stupidity, take your pick, has become a supermarket trash tabloid. I still read the Times, but only for their coverage of Travel and Kitchen. The rest is plain junk.
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» NYT ignorance or stupidity, or agenda?
Posted by: rwa
» RE: Long live Hans Blix
Posted by: Conservasaurus
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Posted by: Democritus on Feb 12, 2007 4:56 AM
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» Flat on his back.
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
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Posted by: Traven on Feb 12, 2007 4:56 AM
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Guess what?
Iraq is in the local neighborhood of Iran: of course they are going to "meddle". It's is THEIR region of the world.
Get over Republican war whores.
Just like America "meddles" in Mexico all the time....
Americans should thing about better ways to spend 2 billion a week other than killing people and when frustrated that your war plans are stupid, overreaching and ill-conceived don't lash out at another country, in yet another attempt to cloud the issues and divert world opinion from the original lie.
If during WWII Hitler had made a speech saying American daylight bombing was the reason he had to invade Italy-every sound person would have laughed out loud and made crude jokes...knowing he was just trying to prop up his Italian buddy and trying to stop the American forces from opening a third front... It would have been at best a self-deceiving diversion.
This is just another self-deceiving diversion in a long line of world class stupid diversions.
Americans must face the fact that our word is shit to the rest of the world because of what the Rebublican lie machine and their little whores in the media have gotten us into, our leaders are incompetent whether they are Democrats or Rebublicans.
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» RE: ven if the evidence IS True
Posted by: hotlipsin61
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Posted by: brad on Feb 12, 2007 5:14 AM
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Posted by: malaparte on Feb 12, 2007 5:28 AM
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Posted by: wawa on Feb 12, 2007 6:40 AM
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“I actually agreed with NY Times columnist, David Brooks the other day. He wrote,
‘The US has always exercised as much power as it could’ but while he celebrated this fact, I thought about American hegomony and hypocrisy...
"Iran has signed the NPT, which allows them the right to have nuclear power and to enrich uranium. The 185 non-nuclear states have agreed to give up the right to have nuclear weapons and the five nuclear powers that signed the NPT agreed to get rid of their nuclear weapons. Iran is not in violation of the NPT, but America is!
"The USA has been in violation ever since the day they signed it. The USA is acting like a rogue state. The rhetoric out of Washington, the arresting of Iranian diplomats in Iraq, are deliberate provocations hoping that the Iranians will take the bait and respond...
"The USA is trying to build a coalition of ‘Moderates’-meaning the one’s we like, which all happen to be monarchies and dictatorships. .....Dr. Phyllis Bennis, author, Mid East analyst and activist.
MUCH MORE on WAWA:
http://www.wearewideawake.org/
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Posted by: rwa on Feb 12, 2007 7:23 AM
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Posted by: itchyvet on Feb 12, 2007 7:26 AM
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The evidance consisted of photos of amunition supposedly made and supplied by the Iranians complete with date and batch numbers of the manufacturer. DUH !
And Americans all over are swallowing this bullshit hook line and sinker once again.
They haven't the brains to work out Iranians speak a different language then them, ie, FARSI, thus anything they manufacture would have FARSI writting upon it. CAPICE ?
To make matters worse, Iranians do not follow our calender, they have their own, and mark months/days/years totaly different from ours.
Yet, strangely, it would appear they're gonna do us all a favour and mark the ammo they supposedly supply the Iraqis with in ENGLISH, DUH, just so we can use it as evidance against them ????
Do Americans really seriously believe Iranians would be so stupid ?
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» RE: So Called "Evidance"
Posted by: gltirebiter
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Posted by: chaoslegs on Feb 12, 2007 7:36 AM
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If they are supporting insurgents in Iraq, isn't that similar to the US support "freedom fighters" in Afghanistan against the occupying Soviets in the 80s? There are many more examples of US "aid" in conflicted areas, but I thought the above example would be the clearest.
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Feb 12, 2007 7:36 AM
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"Sticks and bones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me." Remember that one? That has been the extent of the big, bad, "drubbing": words. Words that mean nothing to destructive megalomaniacs. We fiddle while Bush burns everything in sight.
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» Absolutely in agreement with you! NM
Posted by: Aimleft
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Posted by: rwa on Feb 12, 2007 7:39 AM
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United States officials in Baghdad were reported to be in possession of Iranian made weapons. In a brazen display of "intelligence", the Americans proudly showed off their Iranian-made weapons to reporters:
The BBC's Jane Peel attended the briefing in Baghdad, at which all cameras and recording devices were banned.
Examples of the allegedly smuggled weapons were put on display, including EFPs, mortar shells and rocket propelled grenades which the US claims can be traced to Iran.
"The weapons had characteristics unique to being manufactured in Iran... Iran is the only country in the region that produces these weapons," an official said.
At a briefing today in Baghdad, US officials accused Iran of arming al-Sadr's Mahdi Army in Iraq:
The defense analyst said Iran was working through "multiple surrogates" — mainly "rogue elements" of the Shiite Mahdi Army...
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Feb 12, 2007 7:53 AM
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This war has at least revealed the dishonesty and corruption present in the US corporate media system - more and more people are recognizing that the televison and newspaper news is mostly just pro-government propaganda that supports the interests of the people who control the media - Big Oil, Big Pharma, Wall Street, etc.
The difference is striking when you look at real news and analysis from the Middle East:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IB13Ak02.html
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IB13Ak04.html
Just read this excerpt from another ATO story, Black Hawks down in Iraqi quagmire
By Iason Athanasiadis, Feb13 2007
"There's been an ongoing effort since we've been here to target our helicopters," said Major-General William Caldwell, the US chief military spokesman. "Based on what we have seen, we're already making adjustments in our tactics and techniques and procedures as to how we deploy our helicopters."
In the past, defensive measures have included flying lower and faster, varying routes and using zigzag patterns when traversing dangerous areas. US helicopters in Iraq are also armed with defensive aid suites (DAS), anti-missile systems such as flares and anti-heat-seeking devices.
The most basic DAS system includes a laser-warning detector and multi-spectral smoke and counter-fire as countermeasures. "DAS are only of use against guided weapons," said Spencer. "There's almost nothing that can counter a bullet in a soft spot, nor an RPG-7 fired at an airframe." RPG-7 is a handheld grenade launcher.
In December, Khudair al-Murshidi, a spokesman for Iraq's Ba'ath Party, announced that Sunni insurgents had received shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles, adding that "we are going to surprise them", in a reference to US forces.
Four of the helicopters crashed in Sunni areas, with another shot down during fighting between the US and Iraqi armies and cultists in the Shi'ite stronghold city of Najaf in southern Iraq.
So let's see - the Iranians are arming the Sunnis? Looks like the Baathists are arming the Sunnis - maybe with some of Paul Bremers cash? In contrast to ATO, a search of the NYT for "Baathists" turns up nothing on this issue - just a lot of negative pieces on Iran and positive pieces on Saudi Arabia. Judith Miller all over again...
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» RE: And the Saudi support for the Sunnis? Dead silence from the media!-ABSOLUTELY
Posted by: Drclaw
» Actually Saudi Arabia is next on the list as per PNAC
Posted by: rwa
» Which goes to show how a cabal af crazy PNAC neofascists have taken over Washington...
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» YOU ARE POORLY INFORMED, Saudi Arabia has LOTS of Heavy Oil (hence the war pimping)
Posted by: rwa
» Twilight in the Desert, by Matt Simmons
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» What kind of TIN FOIL KOOK are you?
Posted by: rwa
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Posted by: garyjminter on Feb 12, 2007 9:05 AM
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Yet, it is a mistake to focus only on George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Condi Rice, and the other "neocons."
Many corporations and "silent partners" who own, control, work for, and invest in companies like Halliburton, Kellog Brown and Root, General Electric, Bechtel, Boeing, and the major oil companies and defense contractors are also to blame for our misguided foreign policy over the past 30 years.
Many Democrats also are major stockholders in these firms; Lyndon Johnson was the major political "angel" for Brown and Root during the Vietnam War, and his widow Lady Bird wound up as the largest single stockholder of Brown and Root for a time....is it a coincidence that Brown and Root was awarded the federal contract to build Cam Ran Bay Naval Base in Vietnam, the largest single military contract in US history?
Sadly, too many "public servants" of both major parties have financial interests in the military and oil companies, and they have allowed their personal and family financial interests to dictate US foreign policy, earning us the hatred of many people around the world, especially Arabs, Iranians, and others living in oil-producing nations who know that the USA has selected, financed, and controlled corrupt and dictatorial puppet leaders like the Shah of Iran and Saddam Hussein, over the past 30 years...
So, we must take an honest look at leaders of both parties, and their corporate donors, and also at the wealthy families in the US who really own and run our news media and our government through their loyal agents like the Bushes and Cheneys. These same families own and control the major news media of America, including the New York Times, Washington Post, NBC, and all major TV and radio networks....There is no truly free, independent press in the USA anymore, there hasn't been for a long time....
Gary
Gary J. Minter
http://aidsvillagechina.blog.sohu.com
www.healthchina.org
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Posted by: eddie torres on Feb 12, 2007 9:36 AM
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Florida investigators today have sealed off the hotel where super-addict Anna Nicole Smith died last week. A White House containment team arrived on scene at 8.55am EST and declared a 5-mile "citizen exclusion zone." On their way to "news efficiency concentration centers," reporters from MSNBC and CBS noted a large convoy of NRC decontamination equipment headed for the hotel.
SecDef Robert Gates has leaked key documents to Chris Matthews that implicate Anna Nicole Smith and her attorney, Howard K Stern, in an elaborate Cuban plot to smuggle enough plutonium to Tehran to produce 7 nuclear devices. It is thought that Smith and Stern were stockpiling perscription drug containers for the smuggling operation.
Bombing will begin in 5 minutes...
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Posted by: Spiritof1776 on Feb 12, 2007 11:05 AM
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I'm convinced. By the way, why would anyone dealing in covert weapons put serial numbers on them, in the first place?
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» RE: oman Letters & Arabic Numbers. How considerate
Posted by: opeluboy
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Posted by: Deciamos on Feb 12, 2007 11:31 AM
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How about the rest of the weapons? Where were they made? I can bet they were not made in Iraq?
Tim Russert should ask this question next Sunday.
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» RE: How about the rest of IEDs?
Posted by: opeluboy
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Posted by: debbied16 on Feb 12, 2007 11:46 AM
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Sure there are Iranians fighting against us in Iraq--and Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians, and Saudis. Consider them the insurgents' version of Blackwater: mercenaries and true believers, operating independently of their governments.
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» RE: What coalition? 220,00 Bounty hunters!
Posted by: common intelligence
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Posted by: common intelligence on Feb 12, 2007 11:52 AM
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Hell I could write it all in two pages if there was unequivocal proof. The fact is it takes hundreds of page to cover up lies, not tell the truth.
But now I want to know WHO wrote those 200 pages. Not Bush that's for damn sure. And too, who the hell would read them? The whole of congress didn't read the "patriot act" nor the MCA Military Commissions Act. Hardly a person knows what the hell they really mean until someone is indicted on a charge siting them and then someone has to defend against them and then it has to go to court t figure out what they mean.
It's all a Marketing scam to keep the distraction going. And it is sold to the public at large by the Head of Public Relations GWB! But the marketing plan is drawn up by ...WHO?
Teams of the neoCON marketing drones. Not even Carl Rove sits around at a computer day in and day out plotting and planning the mountain of bull shit that is feed to the whole world. How the hell does this stuff happen?
The game "don't let them (us) get to clear or focused too long on the CON", "keep'm shifting their attention like commercial after commercial after commercial...".
The Military Industrial OIL Complex have more power than any contrary adversary can imagine. And Idiot fearfulled drones only want their tiny piece of the pie for the promise of eternal life. So the Drones just contribute to the perpetual nightmare like in the Matrix.
The CON has now come to the point that "words" pro and con, to and fro have flooded the world of rhetorical reasoning so much that the simple truth is hidden in the tower of Babel.
Mean while the Media and NeoCON just play the same tactics to push the PNAC objectives.
We have two choices:
1) just keep shopping and keep a good supply of Visqueen and Duct Tape. (Yah, buy one of those 300 watt, 42"High definition Plasma screens and bury it in you coffins with you, so you can indoctrinate your children to accepting violence as an acceptable way of life. Yah, that's real conservation of resources! 300 watts of in-your-face propaganda the size of a bill board.)
Gawd, I love this country!
or
2) STOP participating. STOP THE WHOLE DAMN THING.
The distraction and Lies are so deep even the reality of the earths demise by global warming is becoming a hopeless concern.
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Posted by: Hal on Feb 12, 2007 12:42 PM
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Think about that.
Because if DC and the entire MSM are both toy poodles cooked and owned by a plutocracy what does that make America?
Example: Just before and short minutes after the twin trade towers came down on 911 all 3 MSM networks had so-called “experts” on telling us CIA asset Osama Bin Laden (a.k.a. Tim Osman from the House of Saud) and his cave boys were responsible. And that the buildings came down by jet fuel fires and stress of the airliner impacts alone. Facts no one could know without an investigation. Clue: these were prepared stories set up well in advance of the event to program the good little sheep.
911 cover-up is every bit as phony as “war on terror” where Iraq war incorporated was a fraud from the first “shock and awe” bomb drop. Iran is just the next target on the menu.
This is about cartel bank and Big Oil hegemony for the Mid East to Eurasian theatres and it’s a very old oligarch play. One that hasn’t changed from the year Gilded Age robber barons officially took over the U.S. economy, government and its carny media via the “Federal Reserve” Corp sting (not federal, no reserves).
“Oil is much too important a commodity to be left to the Arabs.”
“Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.”
HENRY KISSINGER (ex American Secretary of State as a member of the Trilateral Commission & Bilderberg Group . Henry Kissinger appointed Paul Bremer to oversee the conquest and occupation of Iraq on 5/6/2003. Living. Quotes 1991 & 1990)
“The bottom line is by 1995 there were no more weapons in Iraq… And furthermore, the CIA knew this, the British intelligence knew this, Israeli intelligence knew this, German intelligence, the whole world knew this.”
SCOTT RITTER (ex-UNSCOM inspector in an interview with Seymour Hersh 10/19/05)
"For bureaucratic reasons we settled on WMD [to invade Iraq] because it was the one reason everyone could agree on".
PAUL WOLFOWITZ (“neo-con” US Deputy Defense Secretary and chief architect of the Iraq War in an interview for Vanity Fair 2004)
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Posted by: The Magnificent Goldberg on Feb 12, 2007 3:22 PM
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The Magnificent Goldberg
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Posted by: sofla100 on Feb 12, 2007 4:09 PM
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Posted by: ericksonml@sbcglobal.net on Feb 13, 2007 9:28 AM
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How can WE STOP the IRAN WAR PROMOTERS??
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» RE: mlou
Posted by: opeluboy
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Posted by: opeluboy on Feb 13, 2007 4:42 PM
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The NYT wants to have it both ways; pump out the slime and then appear on the pages of liberal websites and their own rag dumping on the very actions they proposed.
Stop listening. Stop buying their paper. Stop allowing their writers to appear on progressive websites. They are all complicit.
Right now there are (with Clinton's sanctions and the recent invasion) over 1,000,000 dead Iraqis. Lebanon is destroyed and on the verge of civil war. Afghanistan is going down the shitter. Palestine is living in a slow-motion genocide. Iran is in the crosshairs.
We can thank the "journalists" at the Times for a large part of this.
I know how I'd like to thank them.
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Posted by: Larry125 on Feb 14, 2007 7:28 PM
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» RE: larry125
Posted by: opeluboy
» A double hanging maybe?
Posted by: Mycos
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Posted by: dkm on Feb 14, 2007 7:36 PM
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Posted by: crazy carlos on Feb 16, 2007 6:09 AM
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Everywhere else does it logically, that is 31/05/2006. It should also be noted that a slash is almost always used and not a dash.
Some more puff the magic dragon from Disneyland Central.
carzy carlos
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» RE: where are you folks getting your news from???
Posted by: Mycos
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Feb 12, 2007 12:21 AM
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The US has never had decent human intelligence in the Middle East/SW Asia and has instead relied upon satellites and signals intelligence plus 3rd party human intel. When you rely upon the intel from another nation, how do you know it is accurate, plausible or unfiltered? You don't.
Under the best of situations (President wise) it's as dodgy as hell, with BushCo it's like giving matches and gasoline to a toddler.
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» RE: Since When?
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Since When?
Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: Since When?
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Since When?
Posted by: blitzmesser
» Crayons anyone!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Huh?
Posted by:
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: NoPCZone
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: willymack
» RE: Since When?
Posted by: pomes
» RE: Since When?
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Since When?
Posted by: Knowmad
» Please do some research.....
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Please stop, my sides are hurting . . .
Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: Please stop, my sides are hurting . . .
Posted by: Conservasaurus
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Posted by: edith on Feb 12, 2007 1:12 AM
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Removal of US forces from the Persian Gulf region takes the steam out of Iran and Al Queda. The Arab states won't passively sit by and allow the Iranian Army to roll from Tehran to Jerusalem. US presence in the Middle East simply allows the mullahs to distract Iranians' from their miserable, incompetent economy.
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» RE: ven if it's true..
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: ven if it's true..
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: ven if it's true..
Posted by: Arvy
» RE: ven if it's true..
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: ven if it's true..
Posted by: Arvy
» RE: ven if it's true..
Posted by: justaguy
» RE: ven if it's true..
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: ven if it's true..
Posted by: justaguy
» RE: ven if it's true..
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: ven if it's true..
Posted by: justaguy
» RE: ven if it's true..
Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: ven if it's true..
Posted by: Arvy
» RE: Axis of Evil Changed Everything
Posted by: edgar_michel
» RE: Axis of Evil Changed Everything
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Axis of Evil Changed Everything
Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Axis of Evil Changed Everything
Posted by: Arvy
» RE: Axis of Evil Changed Everything
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Axis of Evil Changed Everything
Posted by: Arvy
» RE: This is Evil here too
Posted by: Mycos
» RE: Axis of Evil Changed Everything
Posted by: Mycos
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Posted by: cordas on Feb 12, 2007 1:53 AM
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This is exactly what was done in the lead up to the 2nd Gulf / Iraq War. Spurious intelligence was used misused abused and blatently made up, threats where made (both verbal and physical) until the "world" was convinced that not only was a war inevitable but it was the only viable option. The same is happening again, the only question is who will break first and launch the 1st attack the Isrealies or the US, I don't think it will be the Iranians, no matter how hard bush pushes them.
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» RE: Who are these "intelligence people"
Posted by: edgar_michel
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Posted by: polyquat50 on Feb 12, 2007 1:55 AM
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I was flabbergasted last weeks about US govt remarks about Iran 'interfering' in Iraq. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
If the bully from downtown starts beating up your neighbours, you're supposed to turn a blind eye? Or is that what is meant by "the American way"? Matches with what is obviously the vision of 'truth' and 'justice'. May be we should rephrase the famous quote – “Truth and Justice, the American Way” (wink, wink, nudge, nudge).
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» it's not what's happening it's what to DO about it
Posted by: ibemee
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Posted by: reinaldok on Feb 12, 2007 4:05 AM
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The NY Times has because of its own ignorance or stupidity, take your pick, has become a supermarket trash tabloid. I still read the Times, but only for their coverage of Travel and Kitchen. The rest is plain junk.
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» NYT ignorance or stupidity, or agenda?
Posted by: rwa
» RE: Long live Hans Blix
Posted by: Conservasaurus
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Posted by: Democritus on Feb 12, 2007 4:56 AM
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» Flat on his back.
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
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Posted by: Traven on Feb 12, 2007 4:56 AM
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Guess what?
Iraq is in the local neighborhood of Iran: of course they are going to "meddle". It's is THEIR region of the world.
Get over Republican war whores.
Just like America "meddles" in Mexico all the time....
Americans should thing about better ways to spend 2 billion a week other than killing people and when frustrated that your war plans are stupid, overreaching and ill-conceived don't lash out at another country, in yet another attempt to cloud the issues and divert world opinion from the original lie.
If during WWII Hitler had made a speech saying American daylight bombing was the reason he had to invade Italy-every sound person would have laughed out loud and made crude jokes...knowing he was just trying to prop up his Italian buddy and trying to stop the American forces from opening a third front... It would have been at best a self-deceiving diversion.
This is just another self-deceiving diversion in a long line of world class stupid diversions.
Americans must face the fact that our word is shit to the rest of the world because of what the Rebublican lie machine and their little whores in the media have gotten us into, our leaders are incompetent whether they are Democrats or Rebublicans.
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» RE: ven if the evidence IS True
Posted by: hotlipsin61
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Posted by: brad on Feb 12, 2007 5:14 AM
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Posted by: malaparte on Feb 12, 2007 5:28 AM
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Posted by: wawa on Feb 12, 2007 6:40 AM
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“I actually agreed with NY Times columnist, David Brooks the other day. He wrote,
‘The US has always exercised as much power as it could’ but while he celebrated this fact, I thought about American hegomony and hypocrisy...
"Iran has signed the NPT, which allows them the right to have nuclear power and to enrich uranium. The 185 non-nuclear states have agreed to give up the right to have nuclear weapons and the five nuclear powers that signed the NPT agreed to get rid of their nuclear weapons. Iran is not in violation of the NPT, but America is!
"The USA has been in violation ever since the day they signed it. The USA is acting like a rogue state. The rhetoric out of Washington, the arresting of Iranian diplomats in Iraq, are deliberate provocations hoping that the Iranians will take the bait and respond...
"The USA is trying to build a coalition of ‘Moderates’-meaning the one’s we like, which all happen to be monarchies and dictatorships. .....Dr. Phyllis Bennis, author, Mid East analyst and activist.
MUCH MORE on WAWA:
http://www.wearewideawake.org/
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Posted by: rwa on Feb 12, 2007 7:23 AM
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Posted by: itchyvet on Feb 12, 2007 7:26 AM
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The evidance consisted of photos of amunition supposedly made and supplied by the Iranians complete with date and batch numbers of the manufacturer. DUH !
And Americans all over are swallowing this bullshit hook line and sinker once again.
They haven't the brains to work out Iranians speak a different language then them, ie, FARSI, thus anything they manufacture would have FARSI writting upon it. CAPICE ?
To make matters worse, Iranians do not follow our calender, they have their own, and mark months/days/years totaly different from ours.
Yet, strangely, it would appear they're gonna do us all a favour and mark the ammo they supposedly supply the Iraqis with in ENGLISH, DUH, just so we can use it as evidance against them ????
Do Americans really seriously believe Iranians would be so stupid ?
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» RE: So Called "Evidance"
Posted by: gltirebiter
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Posted by: chaoslegs on Feb 12, 2007 7:36 AM
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If they are supporting insurgents in Iraq, isn't that similar to the US support "freedom fighters" in Afghanistan against the occupying Soviets in the 80s? There are many more examples of US "aid" in conflicted areas, but I thought the above example would be the clearest.
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Feb 12, 2007 7:36 AM
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"Sticks and bones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me." Remember that one? That has been the extent of the big, bad, "drubbing": words. Words that mean nothing to destructive megalomaniacs. We fiddle while Bush burns everything in sight.
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» Absolutely in agreement with you! NM
Posted by: Aimleft
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Posted by: rwa on Feb 12, 2007 7:39 AM
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United States officials in Baghdad were reported to be in possession of Iranian made weapons. In a brazen display of "intelligence", the Americans proudly showed off their Iranian-made weapons to reporters:
The BBC's Jane Peel attended the briefing in Baghdad, at which all cameras and recording devices were banned.
Examples of the allegedly smuggled weapons were put on display, including EFPs, mortar shells and rocket propelled grenades which the US claims can be traced to Iran.
"The weapons had characteristics unique to being manufactured in Iran... Iran is the only country in the region that produces these weapons," an official said.
At a briefing today in Baghdad, US officials accused Iran of arming al-Sadr's Mahdi Army in Iraq:
The defense analyst said Iran was working through "multiple surrogates" — mainly "rogue elements" of the Shiite Mahdi Army...
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Feb 12, 2007 7:53 AM
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This war has at least revealed the dishonesty and corruption present in the US corporate media system - more and more people are recognizing that the televison and newspaper news is mostly just pro-government propaganda that supports the interests of the people who control the media - Big Oil, Big Pharma, Wall Street, etc.
The difference is striking when you look at real news and analysis from the Middle East:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IB13Ak02.html
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IB13Ak04.html
Just read this excerpt from another ATO story, Black Hawks down in Iraqi quagmire
By Iason Athanasiadis, Feb13 2007
"There's been an ongoing effort since we've been here to target our helicopters," said Major-General William Caldwell, the US chief military spokesman. "Based on what we have seen, we're already making adjustments in our tactics and techniques and procedures as to how we deploy our helicopters."
In the past, defensive measures have included flying lower and faster, varying routes and using zigzag patterns when traversing dangerous areas. US helicopters in Iraq are also armed with defensive aid suites (DAS), anti-missile systems such as flares and anti-heat-seeking devices.
The most basic DAS system includes a laser-warning detector and multi-spectral smoke and counter-fire as countermeasures. "DAS are only of use against guided weapons," said Spencer. "There's almost nothing that can counter a bullet in a soft spot, nor an RPG-7 fired at an airframe." RPG-7 is a handheld grenade launcher.
In December, Khudair al-Murshidi, a spokesman for Iraq's Ba'ath Party, announced that Sunni insurgents had received shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles, adding that "we are going to surprise them", in a reference to US forces.
Four of the helicopters crashed in Sunni areas, with another shot down during fighting between the US and Iraqi armies and cultists in the Shi'ite stronghold city of Najaf in southern Iraq.
So let's see - the Iranians are arming the Sunnis? Looks like the Baathists are arming the Sunnis - maybe with some of Paul Bremers cash? In contrast to ATO, a search of the NYT for "Baathists" turns up nothing on this issue - just a lot of negative pieces on Iran and positive pieces on Saudi Arabia. Judith Miller all over again...
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» RE: And the Saudi support for the Sunnis? Dead silence from the media!-ABSOLUTELY
Posted by: Drclaw
» Actually Saudi Arabia is next on the list as per PNAC
Posted by: rwa
» Which goes to show how a cabal af crazy PNAC neofascists have taken over Washington...
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» YOU ARE POORLY INFORMED, Saudi Arabia has LOTS of Heavy Oil (hence the war pimping)
Posted by: rwa
» Twilight in the Desert, by Matt Simmons
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» What kind of TIN FOIL KOOK are you?
Posted by: rwa
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Posted by: garyjminter on Feb 12, 2007 9:05 AM
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Yet, it is a mistake to focus only on George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Condi Rice, and the other "neocons."
Many corporations and "silent partners" who own, control, work for, and invest in companies like Halliburton, Kellog Brown and Root, General Electric, Bechtel, Boeing, and the major oil companies and defense contractors are also to blame for our misguided foreign policy over the past 30 years.
Many Democrats also are major stockholders in these firms; Lyndon Johnson was the major political "angel" for Brown and Root during the Vietnam War, and his widow Lady Bird wound up as the largest single stockholder of Brown and Root for a time....is it a coincidence that Brown and Root was awarded the federal contract to build Cam Ran Bay Naval Base in Vietnam, the largest single military contract in US history?
Sadly, too many "public servants" of both major parties have financial interests in the military and oil companies, and they have allowed their personal and family financial interests to dictate US foreign policy, earning us the hatred of many people around the world, especially Arabs, Iranians, and others living in oil-producing nations who know that the USA has selected, financed, and controlled corrupt and dictatorial puppet leaders like the Shah of Iran and Saddam Hussein, over the past 30 years...
So, we must take an honest look at leaders of both parties, and their corporate donors, and also at the wealthy families in the US who really own and run our news media and our government through their loyal agents like the Bushes and Cheneys. These same families own and control the major news media of America, including the New York Times, Washington Post, NBC, and all major TV and radio networks....There is no truly free, independent press in the USA anymore, there hasn't been for a long time....
Gary
Gary J. Minter
http://aidsvillagechina.blog.sohu.com
www.healthchina.org
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Posted by: eddie torres on Feb 12, 2007 9:36 AM
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Florida investigators today have sealed off the hotel where super-addict Anna Nicole Smith died last week. A White House containment team arrived on scene at 8.55am EST and declared a 5-mile "citizen exclusion zone." On their way to "news efficiency concentration centers," reporters from MSNBC and CBS noted a large convoy of NRC decontamination equipment headed for the hotel.
SecDef Robert Gates has leaked key documents to Chris Matthews that implicate Anna Nicole Smith and her attorney, Howard K Stern, in an elaborate Cuban plot to smuggle enough plutonium to Tehran to produce 7 nuclear devices. It is thought that Smith and Stern were stockpiling perscription drug containers for the smuggling operation.
Bombing will begin in 5 minutes...
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Posted by: Spiritof1776 on Feb 12, 2007 11:05 AM
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I'm convinced. By the way, why would anyone dealing in covert weapons put serial numbers on them, in the first place?
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» RE: oman Letters & Arabic Numbers. How considerate
Posted by: opeluboy
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Posted by: Deciamos on Feb 12, 2007 11:31 AM
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How about the rest of the weapons? Where were they made? I can bet they were not made in Iraq?
Tim Russert should ask this question next Sunday.
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» RE: How about the rest of IEDs?
Posted by: opeluboy
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Posted by: debbied16 on Feb 12, 2007 11:46 AM
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Sure there are Iranians fighting against us in Iraq--and Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians, and Saudis. Consider them the insurgents' version of Blackwater: mercenaries and true believers, operating independently of their governments.
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» RE: What coalition? 220,00 Bounty hunters!
Posted by: common intelligence
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Posted by: common intelligence on Feb 12, 2007 11:52 AM
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Hell I could write it all in two pages if there was unequivocal proof. The fact is it takes hundreds of page to cover up lies, not tell the truth.
But now I want to know WHO wrote those 200 pages. Not Bush that's for damn sure. And too, who the hell would read them? The whole of congress didn't read the "patriot act" nor the MCA Military Commissions Act. Hardly a person knows what the hell they really mean until someone is indicted on a charge siting them and then someone has to defend against them and then it has to go to court t figure out what they mean.
It's all a Marketing scam to keep the distraction going. And it is sold to the public at large by the Head of Public Relations GWB! But the marketing plan is drawn up by ...WHO?
Teams of the neoCON marketing drones. Not even Carl Rove sits around at a computer day in and day out plotting and planning the mountain of bull shit that is feed to the whole world. How the hell does this stuff happen?
The game "don't let them (us) get to clear or focused too long on the CON", "keep'm shifting their attention like commercial after commercial after commercial...".
The Military Industrial OIL Complex have more power than any contrary adversary can imagine. And Idiot fearfulled drones only want their tiny piece of the pie for the promise of eternal life. So the Drones just contribute to the perpetual nightmare like in the Matrix.
The CON has now come to the point that "words" pro and con, to and fro have flooded the world of rhetorical reasoning so much that the simple truth is hidden in the tower of Babel.
Mean while the Media and NeoCON just play the same tactics to push the PNAC objectives.
We have two choices:
1) just keep shopping and keep a good supply of Visqueen and Duct Tape. (Yah, buy one of those 300 watt, 42"High definition Plasma screens and bury it in you coffins with you, so you can indoctrinate your children to accepting violence as an acceptable way of life. Yah, that's real conservation of resources! 300 watts of in-your-face propaganda the size of a bill board.)
Gawd, I love this country!
or
2) STOP participating. STOP THE WHOLE DAMN THING.
The distraction and Lies are so deep even the reality of the earths demise by global warming is becoming a hopeless concern.
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Posted by: Hal on Feb 12, 2007 12:42 PM
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Think about that.
Because if DC and the entire MSM are both toy poodles cooked and owned by a plutocracy what does that make America?
Example: Just before and short minutes after the twin trade towers came down on 911 all 3 MSM networks had so-called “experts” on telling us CIA asset Osama Bin Laden (a.k.a. Tim Osman from the House of Saud) and his cave boys were responsible. And that the buildings came down by jet fuel fires and stress of the airliner impacts alone. Facts no one could know without an investigation. Clue: these were prepared stories set up well in advance of the event to program the good little sheep.
911 cover-up is every bit as phony as “war on terror” where Iraq war incorporated was a fraud from the first “shock and awe” bomb drop. Iran is just the next target on the menu.
This is about cartel bank and Big Oil hegemony for the Mid East to Eurasian theatres and it’s a very old oligarch play. One that hasn’t changed from the year Gilded Age robber barons officially took over the U.S. economy, government and its carny media via the “Federal Reserve” Corp sting (not federal, no reserves).
“Oil is much too important a commodity to be left to the Arabs.”
“Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.”
HENRY KISSINGER (ex American Secretary of State as a member of the Trilateral Commission & Bilderberg Group . Henry Kissinger appointed Paul Bremer to oversee the conquest and occupation of Iraq on 5/6/2003. Living. Quotes 1991 & 1990)
“The bottom line is by 1995 there were no more weapons in Iraq… And furthermore, the CIA knew this, the British intelligence knew this, Israeli intelligence knew this, German intelligence, the whole world knew this.”
SCOTT RITTER (ex-UNSCOM inspector in an interview with Seymour Hersh 10/19/05)
"For bureaucratic reasons we settled on WMD [to invade Iraq] because it was the one reason everyone could agree on".
PAUL WOLFOWITZ (“neo-con” US Deputy Defense Secretary and chief architect of the Iraq War in an interview for Vanity Fair 2004)
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Posted by: The Magnificent Goldberg on Feb 12, 2007 3:22 PM
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The Magnificent Goldberg
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Posted by: sofla100 on Feb 12, 2007 4:09 PM
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Posted by: ericksonml@sbcglobal.net on Feb 13, 2007 9:28 AM
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How can WE STOP the IRAN WAR PROMOTERS??
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» RE: mlou
Posted by: opeluboy
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Posted by: opeluboy on Feb 13, 2007 4:42 PM
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The NYT wants to have it both ways; pump out the slime and then appear on the pages of liberal websites and their own rag dumping on the very actions they proposed.
Stop listening. Stop buying their paper. Stop allowing their writers to appear on progressive websites. They are all complicit.
Right now there are (with Clinton's sanctions and the recent invasion) over 1,000,000 dead Iraqis. Lebanon is destroyed and on the verge of civil war. Afghanistan is going down the shitter. Palestine is living in a slow-motion genocide. Iran is in the crosshairs.
We can thank the "journalists" at the Times for a large part of this.
I know how I'd like to thank them.
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Posted by: Larry125 on Feb 14, 2007 7:28 PM
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» RE: larry125
Posted by: opeluboy
» A double hanging maybe?
Posted by: Mycos
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Posted by: dkm on Feb 14, 2007 7:36 PM
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Posted by: crazy carlos on Feb 16, 2007 6:09 AM
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Everywhere else does it logically, that is 31/05/2006. It should also be noted that a slash is almost always used and not a dash.
Some more puff the magic dragon from Disneyland Central.
carzy carlos
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» RE: where are you folks getting your news from???
Posted by: Mycos
Half-Naked Hot Chicks and Beer: The Sexist Guyland of the Super Bowl Beer Commercial
Can Obama and Dems Overcome the Right's Talk Radio Monopoly?
Why We're Addicted to Disaster Porn




