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Feminist Blogs Respond to Club Culture and Rape Article

By Jessica Valenti and Evan Derkacz, AlterNet. Posted January 4, 2007.


Tuesday's article on young women, club culture and rape has the feminist blog world hopping mad.
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"Underage Women Sidle Up to Barroom Risks," originally published in Women's eNews and reposted on AlterNet as "How Bars Exploit Underage Women as Commodities" is being criticized by the feminist blogosphere for citing dubious "experts," shaming women for commonplace socializing, and for implying that young "scantily clad" women get what they ask for.

Below is an edited selection of responses from the feminist blogs. (Full disclosure: Liz Funk, the article author, wrote a less-than-favorable Huffington Post piece about me and my blog late last year.)

Amanda Marcotte of Pandagon responds:

Please, god, let people stop getting enamored of the idea that the most important battle of all time for gender equality has got to be getting rid of the small perks of being female in the club scene. Yes, yes, it's true that ladies' night is discrimination against men, but for some reason anyone who complains about it doesn't want to hear my solution, which is that women pay 76% of the price men pay on every item until pay equity is reached. This fair solution that addresses all horrible injustices, from ladies night to actual injustices, just doesn't seem to be a marketable idea for some reason.

I bring this up because Liz Funk has stepped in it again with her latest article bemoaning the fact that because men basically run the nightclubs and women are desired to be seen in them, women get a secondary power of being able to manipulate male power for small favors. You know, like those horribly unjust 25 cent well drinks. To make this entire situation worse, Funk quotes Gary Miller in the story, who is mainly an expert in being a douchebag, as we learned when he got into a big war with Jill at Feministe and the fine folks at Gawker, who didn't appreciate his bizarre fantasy-masquerading-as-editorial of legions of club sluts crying into their hangover coffee because they keep getting the fuck-and-run. From this bizarre fantasy, so you know I'm not joking:

You just dance. Then you meet a guy, he buys you drinks, you go home with him, then you wait by your phone the whole next week; but he doesn't call until he's really drunk at 3 a.m. the following Saturday. So you analyze every detail of your encounter with your friends. You start to think maybe he's just busy. But really, you're just the slut from last week.

Women think every guy they have a one night stand with wants to marry them. Gary knows, because he saw it on the teevee. And the teevee will never lie to you about how people really act in order to reinforce stereotypes, now would it?

Gary's a pig with an overinflated sense of how much women need his approval, so why on earth is Liz Funk quoting him in her article about nightclubs?

"Bar and club owners definitely exploit women," said Miller, who wrote an article in November headlined "Girls exchange dignity for attention in trendy clubs" in the Washington Square News, New York University's student newspaper. "Women become a commodity of the establishment that owners use to draw male patrons in. I think the reason most men go to bars and clubs is to find women. This is why they'll pay a cover charge while women get in free; they're paying for the women inside. Bar and club owners know this. They know the success and appeal of their establishment depends on the quantity and attractiveness of the girls inside."

There are two major problems here, apparently:

  1. That men have more power and money than women and therefore women end up getting treated like a sexual commodity.
  2. Some women realize they can use their commodification in minor, limited ways to get favors.

Which is the concern of "feminist" Liz and her buddy Gary? Well, we'll get around to discussing how problematic male dominance is after we've convinced every woman ever to avoid ever turning tables and gaining some small pleasures here and there. Men feel they can use you for sex? You should cry and give up on sex rather than use them right back and show them payback's a bitch.

But in case this isn't appalling enough, Funk then breaks into hand-wringing about how women just keep going out there and apparently raping themselves. She invokes poor Jennifer Moore, an 18-year-old rape and murder victim, and then goes on about how the booze somehow rapes you.

Over 70,000 alcohol-related date rapes a year are committed among students aged 18 to 24, according to "Reducing Underage Drinking: A Collective Responsibility," a 2004 report from the National Academies. The report also finds that 29 percent of those between 15 and 17, and 37 percent of those between 18 and 24, said that alcohol or drugs influenced their decision to do something sexual.

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See more stories tagged with: feminism, rape

Jessica Valenti is the executive editor of Feministing.

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Feminists beating up on other feminists
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Jan 4, 2007 3:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Telling people to be careful is blaming the victim?

Should we all stop locking our doors because it's not our fault if our house is robbed? After all, the only cause of robbery is robbery, which is caused by robbers.

If you're 18+, you should know better than to go home with a stranger after a few pints. What if she steals your wallet or accuses you of rape?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I agree--
Posted by: H_H on Jan 4, 2007 4:06 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Being a blameless perpetual victim is a woman's right!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: I agree-- Posted by: willymack
» RE: I agree-- Posted by: LCS
» RE: I agree-- Posted by: H_H
» The psychology of feminism. Posted by: kepstein7777
I knew it...
Posted by: Scientz on Jan 4, 2007 5:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Something seemed incredibly wrong aboutthat article in the first place. Which is why I covered it in snark.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Good Idea.
Posted by: edraven on Jan 4, 2007 5:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think your idea, "...women pay 76% of the price men pay on every item until pay equity is reached." should apply to all purchases by women. The real problem with the article was making women pay for Adam's mistake, which was blamed on Eve. In my list of Good and Evil - - Sex is Good. Rape is Evil. The word Slut always offends me. How did Humanity fall for this crap from the believers?

Thank you for going after the latest unreasoned attack on women. As a man, I can only begin to understand all of the inequity.

Ed

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» RE: Good Idea. Posted by: H_H
» RE: Good Idea. Posted by: Aussie Kim
» RE: Good Idea. Posted by: pomes
» RE: Good Idea. Posted by: pomes
still thinking - not a feminist issue
Posted by: Ghoulman on Jan 4, 2007 6:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... it's a social issue. I really think EVERYone discussing this is ignoring the culture of todays 20ish youth.

Blathering on and on about male dominance or exploitation is becomming more and more academic in this incestuious blog-battle. I recon.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Very torn...
Posted by: arclight on Jan 4, 2007 6:55 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm very torn about what to think or say about all of this.

My comment to the original article was to point out that it is discrimination to allow 18+ women into a club but only 21+ men, or to charge men a cover and not women. I stand by that. However, I also understand the idea in one of the blog quotes above that states that until pay is equal between the genders, women should only have to pay 76% for everything.

I guess my problem is with society. For instance, on a theoretical level, it is easy for me to agree with actions that attempt to balance the playing field for women and minorities. I've always supported Affirmative Action and trying to get more women and minorities in important roles in big companies, enrolled into universities, and so on. But at the same time, I'm deeply troubled that I am now more easily expendable at my own company because I'm a white male, and perhaps someone who is a bad manager but happens to be a woman cannot even be given a lateral move into another department for fear of appearing sexist. If there's a benefit to my gender and race in my job, I for one am not getting it. Obviously, white males 10 or 20 years older than me did. I'm sure many are now in some fields.

Back to the nightclubbing issue, again, I think my problem is with society. A small "rotten apple" number of influential men are trying to surround themselves with drunk, young, naive, and easily obtainable women through offering these paths to easier access into an artificial hedonistic world. Women often have the problem in our society of getting too much unwanted male attention, from the stereotypical catcalls by construction workers to unwanted advances in coed gyms. I don't deny this problem. However, many other males are made to feel that even though we had nothing to do with the bullies who created this issue, we must pay the price. I grew up trying to be as idealistic and equal-minded as I possibly can, but I have to say, it sucks being on the opposite end of things - to be afraid to approach someone I might be interested in for fear that I might be considered perhaps predatory when all I want to do is strike up a conversation, to pay full price for getting into a club, having my ID inspected thoroughly even though I'm well into my 30s, being patted down like I'm being arrested, and pushed around by idiot clientele who still act like the bully jocks from high school.

Unfortunately, the solution to the problem of gender and race inequalities in all their forms will take at least another generation, if not several more generations.

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RE: And the Whiney Bitchathon Continues!!!!
Posted by: Vyking on Jan 4, 2007 7:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Is it really necessary for Alternet to print the whiney ramblings of a bunch of immature kids?

Well they let you post, don't they?

P.S. There's a whole world of punctuation out there beyond the exclamation point. Look into it.

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RE: And the Whiney Bitchathon Continues!!!!
Posted by: sethmo on Jan 4, 2007 7:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rape is not a legal definition. Here is a disctionary definition:
rape1 /reɪp/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[reyp] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, raped, rap·ing.
–noun 1. the unlawful compelling of a woman through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
2. any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.

There is nothing here that states that a conviction is necessary for a rape to have occurred. You are showing your ignorance, not to mention your gender, here.

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Erosion of patriarchy
Posted by: kelt65 on Jan 4, 2007 8:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is uncomfortably slow, even glacial, but it is happening.

Most men are still raised to be, essentially, rapists.

If you want real progress, stop blaming women and campaign for constructive things, like abolishing same sex education (a cornerstone of social sickness) and traditional gender roles, which have never reflected reality.

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» RE: rosion of patriarchy Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Erosion of patriarchy Posted by: MatthewSavage
» RE: rosion of patriarchy Posted by: kelt65
» RE: rosion of patriarchy Posted by: Vyking
» How to raise a misandrist Posted by: MartianBachelor
New definition of male dominance.
Posted by: lamar on Jan 4, 2007 8:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So male dominance is now defined as a long line of jerks paying $10 to enter the "maybe a half decent looking girl will get so drunk that she'll think I'm not so damn gross" sweepstakes?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Sensitive men don't get women Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Sensitive men don't get women Posted by: MartianBachelor
The level of water
Posted by: terihu on Jan 4, 2007 9:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No offense, folks, but I don't frankly give two shits about the type of people, male or female, who frequent these kinds of nightclubs, period. They make the choice to live that lifestyle, goody for them. I'm not interested, and I find it both pointless and insulting to apply feminist principles to these nightclub practices.

The whole meat-market scene is fundamentally flawed (if you're a feminist), and those who resort to them have issues we cannot begin to address in cyberspace. Why is Alternet dignifying this so-called problem with coverage at all when there are so many more pressing gender equity issues? You know, things that might actually make a difference?

Raise your hands if you're in a healthy, respectful, equitable LASTING relationship with someone you met in a nightclub that offers these sort of predatory, sexist deals.

Uh-huh. Thought so.

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» RE: The level of water Posted by: caitlin
» Well, gee... Posted by: mmeetoilenoir
» RE: Well, gee... Posted by: lamar
» RE: Well, gee... Posted by: terihu
wait a minute
Posted by: libiathan on Jan 4, 2007 9:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was reading the article and then I remembered that wait,...I don't go to these types of clubs. I don't go to the meatpacking district on the weekends, I don't take drinks from strangers (I pay for my own), and I don't go walking on the west side highway by myself at three in the morning. Partying is dangerous. The more serious the partying the more serious the possible consequences. I would rather sit at home crying than go out without my protection squad.

I am not saying that they deserve it, but there is something called personal accountability. Yes, there should be more concern and awareness. A dumb ass would say that someone deserves it. They are probably saying it so they can justify perving on every attractive girl that walks their way.

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» RE: wait a minute Posted by: munchkinpup
» RE: wait a minute Posted by: terihu
» RE: wait a minute Posted by: pomes
» RE: wait a minute Posted by: terihu
Partying with the Gods
Posted by: libiathan on Jan 4, 2007 9:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Umm, I did meet someone really great in a party setting. Just not the meat market setting. Partying is pure and cathartic and uplifting and accepting if you know what you are doing.

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» RE: Partying with the Gods Posted by: terihu
» RE: Partying with the Gods Posted by: bronx_girl
The article...
Posted by: Pirate1 on Jan 4, 2007 9:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That triggered all this response I found ridiculous when I first read it and I am not surprised at the response it is getting, however all this blame counterblame leaves the issue untouched. It is US, people... it is who we are and who we believe we have a right to be. I mean, look around you... read your history... early on, when there were only colonies here, hard at god's work of stealing the land away from the people who had lived on it for millenia before, this was where so called religious sects that were too radical even for Europe at that time were bannished, some came voluntarily so they could believe as they wanted. So for as long as there has been a European presence on this continent there have have been churches in this land, and there has been a large percentage of ministers and priests (and the parents and others who receive what these folks say as somehow the word of god) who are lead to believe that certain behavior is wrong, and that those who dress a certain way and act a certain way deserve whatever bad thing might happen to them. This stuff actually guides people, this is what blind belief leads to and think about it, if this nation holds nothing else sacred they are very serious about their right to believe. So I don't think you are ever going to get enough people to even think about this because that isn't the nature of belief... belief is something you take on faith, it is irrational.
Test yourself, next time you see a girl of say 12 or 13 dressed in "Hooker Chique" do you say that's cute or that's disgusting?
Who designs these clothes to be worn by girls barely pubescent?
I don't think it is possible today for an adolescent girl even to buy jeans that don't force them to shave their pubes because they are cut so low, even if they wanted to.
How does this jibe with all the preaching to evil of it all?
I say it contributes to a societal tension that is necessary in order for the institutions that preach evil and hate under the guise of the word of god to have something to point to for examples of "What happens" to so called "Bad girls"...
You good people who are clamoring for a rational world, I'm with you, I salute you... rape is ugly, the hatred directed at women and men is ugly but as long as so many of you hang onto belief unquestioningly, you continue to empower the very forces that keep it all going.

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» RE: Meant to add... Posted by: Pirate1
Great responses from the blogs
Posted by: lawstudent08 on Jan 4, 2007 10:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was more than slightly disturbed reading the original article at issue. When I was 19, I paid a lower cover charge than guys my age to enter a club with my friend. We danced and had some sober fun, and then I met a guy there who raped me later that night. And even though I didn't drink (and still don't, really), the first question out of everyone's mouth was, "Were you drunk?" Because we women need to be blamed somehow for our rapes. At my undergrad school there was a string of sexual assaults, which we later discovered to be committed by the same student, and when the female victims had the courage to report the assaults, the local police chief was quoted in our university paper as blaming the female victims for being drunk (never mind that some were sober, some weren't).

I completely agree with all these reponses to Funk's article. Let's focus on blaming the rapists, not the victims.

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RE: And the Whiney Bitchathon Continues!!!!
Posted by: caitlin on Jan 4, 2007 10:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Forced sex isn't rape until there's been a trial and a conviction? That's complete nonsense. Were Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman not murdered because they weren't able to convict OJ?

It's very ironic that you sit here and call these women "juvenile feminists" who are off their rockers in light of your aimless subliterate ranting. Seriously, a dictionary, or even spell check, is your best friend.

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Catfight!
Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Jan 4, 2007 10:36 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Women can be so idiotic at times. The article really wasn't about rape it was about how bars use women to make money. And women don't seem to mind it. My question is, why not just legalize outright prostitution at bars and clubs, since it is obvious that about 60% of women would probably do it at some point in their life to make a quick buck. As it stands now, the only ones making money are the owners. Both women AND men are exploited by club life. Youth itself is exploited by it. That is the very basis of it.

After reading all these rediculous catfight comments, I can only wonder why women seem so hellbent on dragging the old "cause of rape" argument into every conversation. It is an argument that will never be won by either side.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Actually, the argument can be won Posted by: lawstudent08
» RE: Catfight! Posted by: maddy
» RE: Catfight! Posted by: munchkinpup
» RE: Catfight! Posted by: maddy
» RE: Catfight! Posted by: Ames
Phallic Drift
Posted by: godsbedamned on Jan 4, 2007 10:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I concur with a previous poster in pointing out the irony of there being so much focus on the unfairness of women paying less to enter a club (which, of course, is gender discrimination) when there's no discussion of the MUCH more pervasive and culturally accepted wage discrimination that WOMEN experience daily. Somewhere I came across a term, "phallic drift," that seems to encapsulate this irony just perfectly: When we talk about the problems women experience, the focus inevitably drifts to that of men (this because we are trained to think from the male viewpoint; news media, politics, sports, etc., think this way -- they talk to presumed male audiences, they use male standards of comparison, they treat women as objects -- and only recently have been challenged on this). Examples of phallic drift include times when we want to bring up the realities of rape as something women experience as a matter of fact and then the focus gets hijacked to discussing things that affect a few men (e.g., false reports, how men are burdened by 'uptight' women) -- so much so that women get erased...again.

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maybe a misinterpretation
Posted by: noa on Jan 4, 2007 12:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the fact the so many have replied so viscerally to this article, makes me believe that perhaps it is not worded so well. However, the point that I felt the author was trying to make I think got lost somewhere. I certainly do not believe that it is ever a woman's fault in situations of domestic violence, rape, date rape, etc...and obviously we still live in a world of fairly immense gender inequality. And I feel that this article was pointing out one of these ways. The reason that these places have these specials is not as some kind of a gender equalization solution. It is from a completely male perspective of providing, in essence, a product for their male costumers. In this case the product (which is really disturbing) is women who are dressed and look a certain way. This does not help all women. (and thus any women) It only "helps" women who MEN at the door decide fit a certain image that MEN inside will like. On top of which, the fact that women can get in younger is creepy, not some hand up. I know 21 to 18 is not some big difference. But there is a difference in mind sets and accumulated experience, knowledge, and acumen as one ages. And yes, older people can take advantage of younger people. So to purposely have their be groups of women who are younger for the eyes of older men, does seem to be a little sexist, in that it is once again supplying something for the male customers. Finally the whole free drinks thing is sketchy not because women should not be allowed to have as many drinks as they feel comfortable with. Its sketchy in the same way it is strange when someone keeps buying you gin and tonics, while they order cokes. There are (and it is completely FUCKED UP, but they certainly exist) men who attempt to get women drunk in order to be able to weasel them into bed while they are still more lucid. This does not mean that women are stupid for getting drunk, or that it is their fault. But we all make mistakes when we are drunk, it is a tell tale sign of inebriation. However, supplying a group of underage, innebriated women, for older more sober men, freaks me out.

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Didja know
Posted by: Donna_Darko on Jan 4, 2007 1:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
73% of rapists are non-strangers: friends, acquaintances, intimates and relatives. So most rapes of females take place indoors. It's more logical for women to stay outside and men to stay inside. But Funk's article said:

Quinn acknowledged that young people "who go out at night remain at risk until they get back home."

RAINN states that there were five times less incidences of rape in 2003 than in 1973. Domestic violence has also steadily gone down. All this anti-feminist admonishing and slut-shaming is about fear of women's economic and political gains.

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» RE: Didja know Posted by: H_H
» RE: Didja know Posted by: godsbedamned
Being Drunk Makes You More Vulnerable
Posted by: rjgwood on Jan 4, 2007 2:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It makes no difference whether you are a man or a woman, drinking makes you more vulnerable and impairs your judgement. Of course rapists are to blame for rape, and those who rob men who are drunk are also to blame for their crime. But the fact of the matter is, when you are drunk you are less alert and are an easier target.

Why is it that so many more American women are more likely to be raped than their scantily clad, club hopping European counterparts? Is it because in the US we keep alcohol away from kids and don't teach them how to drink responsibly and how to incorporate drinking into a responsible life style, with moderation?

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» America, the violent Posted by: famouspipeliner
Sheesh
Posted by: MartianBachelor on Jan 4, 2007 4:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
> ...my solution, which is that women pay 76% of the price men
> pay on every item until pay equity is reached.

Or we could have spending equity, because women spend 80+% of the the disposable income in this country.

The 76% figure conveniently ignores the huge but uncounted transfer of wealth from men to women.

If men ran the economy of money the way women run the economy of eros, we'd be living in mud huts and having grubs for dinner.

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» RE: Sheesh Posted by: fork
» flattery will get you nowhere Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Sheesh Posted by: pomes
» RE: Sheesh Posted by: zoomorph
both to blame
Posted by: bambino on Jan 4, 2007 7:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
men are to blame for rape no matter how anyone acts. but it is also prudent to tell girls to be careful. what is wrong with that? certainly dress is indicative of a lot, male and female. to tell girls, that they dont have to take personal responsibility for actions is such a bad message. why all the anger from femininsts, if thats what they are. i thought the femininst message was of a different sort. to bring in islamic statements into anything here is idiotic. their entire culture is based on male priviledge and yet it is the male that has to be protected from the power of female sexuality. i dont even try to understand their worldview it is so mired in contradictions. the club culture though seems like not a place for real feminists. girl power today and messages about ones body seem to be going in the wrong direction and driven by consumer values.

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» RE: both to blame Posted by: pomes
» RE: both to blame Posted by: pomes
» RE: both to blame Posted by: Logic's Edge
» Men Posted by: Donna_Darko
Theory Vs Reality
Posted by: Ambrose Pare on Jan 4, 2007 8:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've noticed these feminist articles all have a common trait.
These people are completely out of touch with reality.

Bars and Nightclubs are dangerous, your first clue is that most bouncers now wear BULLET-PROOF vests.

Is it ethical or fair? Of course not, but that is reality.

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» RE: Theory Vs Reality Posted by: pomes
» RE: Theory Vs Reality Posted by: Ivan_K
bobv@cox.net
Posted by: Robert Veasey on Jan 4, 2007 11:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Blah! Blah! Blah!

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Police state
Posted by: pomes on Jan 5, 2007 9:50 AM   
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The world is a dangerous place. I don't think it's blaming women of rape to tell them that they shouldn't walk home drunk in the dark by themselves.

As a society, here are the two main alternatives for dealing with this problem:

1. Take responsibility for your own safety and don't put yourself in dangerous situatons.

OR

2. Continue to push this totalitarian worldwide police state that tracks, monitors, and rules every human being, keeping you "safe" from all those dangerous rapists at bars and from all other aggressors (except, of course, aggression by the police state itself, which you should be far more worried about than a drunk guy at ladies night because it's far more likely to happen).


As an aside -- it seems like we live in an era which is the polar opposite of one of the most pervasive feminist complaints: the promiscuious woman is cheered on while the promiscuious man is ridiculed and chastised. Can anybody read this article and the one it is resopnding to and disagree with this?

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» RE: Police state Posted by: Ambrose Pare
...and in Colorado it's simply not fair to charge men more
Posted by: stealthisbook on Jan 5, 2007 8:36 PM   
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Today's Rocky Mountain News carried a story about a man described as "firmly anti-feminist" who is trying to outlaw the practice of having "ladies nights" because it is discriminatory to men. christ. As retrograde as this guy is, it seems that he has hit on where the issue is pertinent to most people-- rather than focusing on issues of exploitation or victimization, he's pissed that he doesn't get cheap drinks.

He may be a knuckle dragger, but at least his priorities are firmly with the average Coloradoan or other plains stater whose goal in going to a bar is to get really drunk really fast and only after to consider the possibility of companionship. From the sounds of things he may very well not have even considered the idea of sex or promiscuity.

Rocky Mountain News Story

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» Hilarious Posted by: kepstein7777
a plea for constructive feedback, not personal attacks
Posted by: cem1231 on Jan 6, 2007 12:42 PM   
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If you find fault with Liz Funk's reporting techniques, sources, or framing, it makes sense to respond with that feedback. Not only do you contribute to the dialogue she has sparked, but you may empower her with valuable information about how to improve her process as a journalist.
If you find fault with the editorial decisions of the Women's eNews staff, that too is critical and building feedback to give them.
BUT personal attacks on any of the above are not constructive. Liz Funk is a young reporter just beginning her career. Being torn apart by the feminist community she aspires to be a part of is not going to make her a wiser feminist, a more nuanced critical thinker, or a more skilled reporter. It's only going to affirm people's worst stereotypes about feminists spending their precious energy on cat fights.
-Courtney E. Martin

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Ignoring the elephant in the room
Posted by: Silentkiller on Jan 7, 2007 2:54 PM   
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What I find interesting is that not a single soul thought about AIDS. The US, a 'super power', is in the middle of an epidemic that has gone worldwide. In the last 25 years of the AIDS epidemic, instead of seeing a decrease in HIV/AIDS infection rates, they've gone up!
Not only that, but men are the main transmitters of this disease (there are to date no documented women to women cases & the chance of a female transmitting to a male is MUCH lower than vice versa)! Add into that; minority women are the fastest growing infection rate right now in the US, specifically ages 15-24 (approximately).

I really don't care what the clubs, promoters, etc... are doing to get women into these places. There's injustices all around us, especially to women. Always has, always will be - deal with it!

Parents & peers need to start stepping up & educating the youth. Because our government is not! Not until they reach college, which is usually too late (average age of 1st sexual encounter has dropped to a freshman in highschool). I've got four young Cousins & I try to educated them where their parents & school system have failed.
This is a new world people! Wake-up! Smell the pollution rotting our minds, bodies & souls..............

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