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Black Men, Asian Women
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What accounts for such interest? It's as though these couples have been pouring out of medical schools and producers decided to capture the trend.
The representations tread the line between cultural authenticity, sometimes considered stereotype, and colorblindness. The women exhibit some level of conflict with their cultures and are slightly neurotic: Ming Na dreaded telling her immigrant parents that she was having a baby out of wedlock; Nagra quit her job in a bout of rebellion against family expectation to work as a convenience store clerk. The men are dangerous but tender. Phifer grew up without a father and has a temper; Gallant went off to serve in Iraq. I did laugh at the effort to bridge cultures, though, when Nagra's character got married wearing a white sari. White is the Hindu color of mourning.
The hype about interracial television couples is that Americans have moved so far past race they don't even notice. "Honestly, we really don't even talk about it or consider that it's an interracial couple,"said ER's Executive Producer David Zabel in an interview with Diversity Inc. He claims that a quick look at MTV proves that younger people don't draw those lines.
Web-surfing indicates that younger people do indeed draw those lines, at least for purposes of fulfilling their attractions. On Tribe NY, I found a group for Asian women who love Black men, and on Blasian.com I found Black men who love Asian women. The website African and Asian American Unity has tools for getting to know the other culture that include instructions on how to keep a bonsai, cook Chinese greens and participate in Kwanzaa. It also has a highly insightful advice column, "Ask Mike," in which a bald, slim, goateed Black man will answer your romantic questions at great length for free. The vast majority of questions were from people under 25 wanting to know how they could find, keep or correct their Black or Asian partner.
An Analysis of Desire
While the number of such actual couples remains small (an unknown but undoubtedly tiny portion of the 2 percent of U.S. residents in interracial marriages), there does appear to be a dramatic growth among daters in particular places.
Particular neighborhoods in Brooklyn and Los Angeles seem to have become havens for Black men seeking Asian women and vice versa. While sitting on her stoop in Ft. Greene, Brooklyn, a Japanese friend was approached by an Asian woman walking with her baby stroller. The woman asked whether my friend had any kids. She was searching for potential members of a group for kids with a Black father and Asian mother.
What accounts for the sudden attraction? Darrell Hamamoto, professor of Asian American studies at the University of California-Davis, believes it is rooted in prevailing stereotypes stemming from Black men's military experiences in Asia. Hamamoto gained some notoriety as the producer of a pornographic film featuring Asian sex, his effort to complicate and abandon the stereotypes of oversexed Asian women and impotent Asian men. He asserts that the U.S. military draws large numbers of Black men looking for a ladder to the middle class, whose status changes when they go abroad. These men see Asian women as subjects of the American--and, by implication, their own--empire.
"This trend is rooted with American colonialism and occupation. Material and historical forces shape these relationships,"said Hamamoto. "You have three, four, five generations of African-American men who have served oversees in Asia, whose experience with Asian women has been pretty intense in a foreign land where they are treated not as subordinate people but as superior Americans."
Marlon Ross, professor of English and African American Studies at the University of Virginia, raised a methodological question about this theory. "I'm not sure that African-American men have been involved in sexual relationships with Asian women in that context any more than white men; it's just that when African-American men are doing it, it gets noticed more,"said Ross. That doesn't mean, however, that stereotypes don't come into play. "Our desires are fashioned by consumption, by the media and by commerce in very deep-seated ways that we may not even recognize. That fashioning of what is desirable, certainly a large part of it is racially defined," he added.
It seems likely that the increase in this kind of dating owes more to demographics than anything else, and such couples continue to face challenges. None of the couples I heard from or about while reporting this story had any military background whatsoever, and all had faced or expected strong resistance from the Asian partner's family. Performer Kate Rigg wrote a song for one of her Asian dancers:
My boyfriend's Black and there's gonna be trouble My parents want to live in a Negro-free bubble.Mutual Attraction
Two things have been changing since my family immigrated in 1972. The identity of Asian immigrants has shifted from mostly middle-class professionals to working-class economic refugees, and these people have moved into urban centers and suburbs simultaneously with upwardly mobile Black families. The couples I spoke to met after finding themselves in the same place at the same time.
Aarti, a 26-year-old activist of Indian descent, found her first Black boyfriend at 15 when she left her fully multiracial public school for a scholarship to a prep school where the students were polarized between Black and white. "I really felt that I had no choice. My body type in high school was much more voluptuous than it is now, and that just really took the white guys out,"she said. Aarti does not discuss her dating life with her parents. She recalls that one time when she brought home a Black boyfriend "as a friend," her father felt the need to craft a long explanation for his presence to an extended family member. She further noted that among her South Asian peers she received far more stigmatizing attention for "only dating Black" than did those who only dated white.
Mark is a 42-year-old Black chiropractor living with his 44-year-old Filipina wife of 16 years in Vallejo, California. Mark was born and raised in Vallejo, where Filipinos started arriving when he was about 11, and his wife's family immigrated then. The couple draws the same number of stares from Blacks and Asians as they did in the 1980s, and also faced family conflict in spite of having grown up together. "My family was more open initially than hers, even though we had all known each other. The only way I can put it is, African Americans in America are at the bottom." Mark dated all kinds of women, but said he "always had a thing for Asian women. It's just a personal preference."
Hamamoto's theory would suggest that such a preference was grounded in a sexual stereotype of submissive Asian women. I am familiar with our so-called seductress image. My Asian girlfriends and I spent our college years snottily rejecting the few white men who came around as "rice lovers." While I did experience an American man mentioning the Kama Sutra within five minutes of meeting me recently in New York, my adolescent self- image was much closer to nerd than slut. To see all these Asian women who might also have been high-school nerds paired up with the most sexualized actors in American culture has been, I will admit it, a thrill. However, in real life, Asian women and Black men don't get to be both equally sexy and smart. "It's easier for a Black man to get his foot in the door when he's with me, "said Aarti, "especially if we're working."
At least in the popular culture, there has been a long-standing attraction between Blacks and Asians. Rigg cites the generations-old Black obsession with martial arts movies, as well as the Asian adoption of hip-hop culture. And Asians look up to Blacks as the standard-bearers for civil rights activism. "It would be a big turn-on for an Asian girl or guy to be with people who have been more successful in asserting their rights," said Rigg. "This is a case of like likes like. A Black person is less likely to be as racist as a white person when it comes to dating an Asian girl. Anda Black person might not feel as oppressed as they would by a white person in their family structure."
Still, if television reflects more fantasy than reality, whose fantasy is this? The real breakthrough would be to pair a Black woman and an Asian man. There hasbeen no Black woman doctor on ER since Michael Michele left in the early years. Grey's Anatomy's character list includes only a married, middle-aged Black woman. There have been no Asian men in either cast. Black women and Asian men seem to be aware that they haven't made it to the top of America's desirability scale, and that they need each other. Their questions to "Ask Mike"outnumber the others, two to one. A television hospital coupling would surely help them.
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Posted by: edith on Sep 20, 2006 12:37 AM
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African American women are not exactly ecstatic about African American men, who bring enough problems to the "table", dating non-African American women. Needless to say, our brave TV networks don't even go near the issue of black male gayness which the African American Community has just begun to recognize without hurling Biblical curses down upon any black male or female brave or foolish enough to be open about their secual choice.
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» RE: senseless sexual speculation
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Posted by: rsaxto on Sep 20, 2006 1:28 AM
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Posted by: tbalx on Sep 20, 2006 5:58 AM
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The only reason it's not being opposed is because it's two minority races, in the US, who are hooking up. The power race couldn't care less what minorites do.
Where is the programming that touts black/white couples? There aren't any prime time ones because the networks won't do it.
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Sep 20, 2006 6:43 AM
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It's really discouraging to believe that in 206 we are still dealing with this kind of sh*t.
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Posted by: haleema on Sep 20, 2006 7:21 AM
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Posted by: Theotis on Sep 20, 2006 7:56 AM
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Posted by: Pocahontas on Sep 20, 2006 9:03 AM
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A white New Jersy type man visited my reservation a few years ago. While we were discussing why Native American musicians, actors, and actresses have trouble breaking through to good jobs in their respective professions; this homely, short, nerdy white man said one of the problems is that Native American woman aren't considered beautiful.
When I told a few other people in my community what this guy said, they were as surprised, shocked, and indignant as I was when I first heard that.
Our view and our "scale of judgement" is directed by the men in power who show us their preferences. They don't reflect what each individual finds beautiful or attractive.
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Posted by: Sojourner on Sep 20, 2006 9:03 AM
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The visual media do not, or rarely, almost never, lead. They follow, because they need to attract corporate sponsors, and all sponsors do is sell whatever it is they peddle. That is, media peddles--no more, no less. To treat it as art shows how confused our perception of art is.
One attraction of the poets in pop music is that they can squeeze into the lyrics some honest insight into their genuine experiences, because the music does the selling. Likewise with film. (Ever wonder what Hollywood actors, whose roles now amount to little more than voice-over for the special effects, think of themselves as artists? Blah.)
Recently AlterNet gave us a beautiful piece by a Central American adopted by a white family as a baby on his experiences growing up. My thanks go out to the pioneers who shatter the whole stupid notion of "race." "Until the color of a man's skin is of no more significance than the color of his eyes, we shall not know peace."
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» RE: Peddling soap opera love/sex keeps it safe to talk about.
Posted by: Non_Theist
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Posted by: ric2 on Sep 20, 2006 10:07 AM
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» RE: WHERE is asian man in this?
Posted by: Theotis
» RE: WHERE is asian man in this?
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Posted by: the qsq on Sep 20, 2006 10:07 AM
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» RE: Desirability Scale?
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Posted by: anna33 on Sep 20, 2006 11:47 AM
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Posted by: anotheropinion on Sep 20, 2006 12:04 PM
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Why focus on black men and Asian women? There are dozens of different combinations of ethnicities dating each other. Why focus on just one? It seems a bit ridiculous.
I've read this article three times and still don't see what purpose it serves, other than to PROMOTE stereotypes.
What a strange article... Where has the Quality Control Department disappeared to at AlterNet??
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Posted by: anotheropinion on Sep 20, 2006 12:22 PM
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I lived in Taiwan and Vietnam for a year each and traveled around other places in Asia a fair amount. Trust me, people of African descent are seen as ANYTHING BUT superior. Several friends of mine had a terrible time trying to find work, not to mention finding a date. That's not to say it's impossible for an African person to find a "black sheep" to date, but they are few and far between. Chances are the Asian girls have completely cut off all ties with their family for dating them, or they have kept it a secret.
Do your homework Miss Sen.
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» RE: And another thing...
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Posted by: Aussie Kim
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Posted by: Seyazou on Sep 20, 2006 2:58 PM
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What ever their respective backgrounds may be, if they love each other on aly lever, I'd say leave them be. We may look, stare, criticize (personally I don't), but that's not going to change the way those two individuals see each other. It's all too easy to fall back into crude racial stereotypes when we see any interracial couple, but we really need to move beyond that. Any population where you have two or more different racial/ethnic/religious groups living side-by-side, interrelations are inevitable.
Given the history of American overseas military presence throughout the world, we no longer look twice when we see white servicemen (and now servicewomen) coming back with partners who are natives of the countries the service people were posted in. It should be no surpise that you have black service personnel coming back with Asian or European partners.
While a proud black man, I'm not an angry Black man. I say we need to stop wasting our time and energy tryin to hate on other couples just because their skin is a different color, or their facial features different. I mean so what! If they're feeling each other - let 'em be. There's already more than enough hate in the world. We need all the love we can get.
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Posted by: NYC Viktor on Sep 20, 2006 11:20 PM
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If these white producers really cared about portraying racial reality in America, then show Asian women with white men, which is commonplace, or Asian men with white women, which is becoming more common, or white men with a host of races, which has been common for quite some time. Television, Ms. Sen, is not reality, and therefore, cannot be used as any basis for the analysis of race relations in the United States. Just because you and a few of your Indian girlfriends have dated black men, or that it is shown on some shows on TV, does not mean it is a trend. Asian women are most likely to marry within their race or to a white man, and are unlikely to even interact with a black male in a professional setting. Ms. Sen is obviously mistaking her own experiences and those of some television programs for a trend, which it is not. Get in touch with reality before writing such an article. Do your homework, it prevents mediocre journalism!
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Posted by: Aussie Kim on Sep 21, 2006 1:25 AM
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I work at an English school and we end up with all sort of couples here - Brazilians dating Chinese, Turks dating Japanese, Colombians dating just about anyone... ;)
:)
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Posted by: rbtt on Sep 21, 2006 4:27 AM
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Posted by: taliebabe on Sep 21, 2006 4:52 AM
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Posted by: andre on Sep 21, 2006 8:04 AM
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Thanks
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» RE: Asian women and black men, good match.
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Posted by: rinkusen on Sep 21, 2006 9:59 AM
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Posted by: nurstat on Sep 21, 2006 10:22 AM
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Posted by: AaJay on Sep 21, 2006 12:12 PM
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Beyond that I really don’t think this article was particularly well thought.
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Posted by: Non_Theist on Sep 21, 2006 2:39 PM
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Perhaps because Asian women, and most def' Black men, are consider "other" in this culture the accusation of "slumming" would seem to be absurd.
But here's the other thing relative to television and the hypocritical statement made by that producer fellow in the above piece: How often on any program do we see a white woman and a Black man making the beast with two backs? Right. As I thought. We do see the occasional white male character making the swirl with a black woman, and I contend that this is merely and only a reflection of the white male's privledged position in this culture, which allows him to have his way with Black women, which we may trace all the way to the funny business that occured on many a plantation during this country's slavery period. All's I'm saying is let's be honest. This country still has a bug up its ass about Black men and White women getting their freak on.
Personally, I don't give a fig about who sleeps with whom. On the issue of miscegnation I'm with the Vulcans- Infinite Delight In Infinite Combinations. Word.
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Posted by: becomeuseless on Sep 21, 2006 7:15 PM
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Posted by: wharton on Sep 23, 2006 1:38 AM
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Posted by: Phenix on Sep 25, 2006 9:29 PM
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The word that set me off laughing was "voluptuous" which is code for she was fat. I don't know any kids from my high school who would turn down a date from a girl who was truly voluptuous. I mean you can't think of anything better as a high school student well that is if she has a face to go with her voluptuous body. If she was on the fatter side then I must thank black men who always seem to sntchg up the fat white girls. As a white guy I applaud you all for the effort. I of course will not return the favor.
On a serious note. This article is just pointless. I see no reason why its on alternet other than to fill some quota about social issues. Who really cares that asian women are dating black men. Well their families do especially the asian girls family but don't worry recent immigrant families want their daughters to find a guy from the same country. I had two friends who were dating. The girl was vietnamese and the guy was Chinese. Neither family would allow them to date. The main reason was that the Chinese and Vietnamese hate each other but the girls parents would not allow her to date outside of her nationality. Trust me I know. I tried but I was told it was impossible because I was white. I did this before she dated my good friend.
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» RE: I love this PARAGRAPH
Posted by: Aussie Kim
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Posted by: Chy11 on Oct 4, 2006 8:22 AM
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They seem to get ignored and bypassed a lot.
Here is my group and I want to say that Asian males are definitely welcome.
With love and peace to all.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/asianswholikeblackpeople/
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Posted by: edith on Sep 20, 2006 12:37 AM
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African American women are not exactly ecstatic about African American men, who bring enough problems to the "table", dating non-African American women. Needless to say, our brave TV networks don't even go near the issue of black male gayness which the African American Community has just begun to recognize without hurling Biblical curses down upon any black male or female brave or foolish enough to be open about their secual choice.
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» RE: senseless sexual speculation
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Posted by: rsaxto on Sep 20, 2006 1:28 AM
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Posted by: tbalx on Sep 20, 2006 5:58 AM
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The only reason it's not being opposed is because it's two minority races, in the US, who are hooking up. The power race couldn't care less what minorites do.
Where is the programming that touts black/white couples? There aren't any prime time ones because the networks won't do it.
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» RE: tbalx
Posted by: therabshakeh
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Sep 20, 2006 6:43 AM
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It's really discouraging to believe that in 206 we are still dealing with this kind of sh*t.
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» RE: Sociobabble/Psycobabble
Posted by: luzmejor
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Posted by: haleema on Sep 20, 2006 7:21 AM
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» RE: Queen
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Posted by: Theotis on Sep 20, 2006 7:56 AM
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» or
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Posted by: Pocahontas on Sep 20, 2006 9:03 AM
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A white New Jersy type man visited my reservation a few years ago. While we were discussing why Native American musicians, actors, and actresses have trouble breaking through to good jobs in their respective professions; this homely, short, nerdy white man said one of the problems is that Native American woman aren't considered beautiful.
When I told a few other people in my community what this guy said, they were as surprised, shocked, and indignant as I was when I first heard that.
Our view and our "scale of judgement" is directed by the men in power who show us their preferences. They don't reflect what each individual finds beautiful or attractive.
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Posted by: Sojourner on Sep 20, 2006 9:03 AM
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The visual media do not, or rarely, almost never, lead. They follow, because they need to attract corporate sponsors, and all sponsors do is sell whatever it is they peddle. That is, media peddles--no more, no less. To treat it as art shows how confused our perception of art is.
One attraction of the poets in pop music is that they can squeeze into the lyrics some honest insight into their genuine experiences, because the music does the selling. Likewise with film. (Ever wonder what Hollywood actors, whose roles now amount to little more than voice-over for the special effects, think of themselves as artists? Blah.)
Recently AlterNet gave us a beautiful piece by a Central American adopted by a white family as a baby on his experiences growing up. My thanks go out to the pioneers who shatter the whole stupid notion of "race." "Until the color of a man's skin is of no more significance than the color of his eyes, we shall not know peace."
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» RE: Peddling soap opera love/sex keeps it safe to talk about.
Posted by: Non_Theist
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Posted by: ric2 on Sep 20, 2006 10:07 AM
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» RE: WHERE is asian man in this?
Posted by: Theotis
» RE: WHERE is asian man in this?
Posted by: Kiet
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Posted by: the qsq on Sep 20, 2006 10:07 AM
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» RE: Desirability Scale?
Posted by: ric2
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Posted by: anna33 on Sep 20, 2006 11:47 AM
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Posted by: anotheropinion on Sep 20, 2006 12:04 PM
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Why focus on black men and Asian women? There are dozens of different combinations of ethnicities dating each other. Why focus on just one? It seems a bit ridiculous.
I've read this article three times and still don't see what purpose it serves, other than to PROMOTE stereotypes.
What a strange article... Where has the Quality Control Department disappeared to at AlterNet??
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» RE: Absurd
Posted by: Jayzer
» RE: Absurd
Posted by: wharton
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Posted by: anotheropinion on Sep 20, 2006 12:22 PM
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I lived in Taiwan and Vietnam for a year each and traveled around other places in Asia a fair amount. Trust me, people of African descent are seen as ANYTHING BUT superior. Several friends of mine had a terrible time trying to find work, not to mention finding a date. That's not to say it's impossible for an African person to find a "black sheep" to date, but they are few and far between. Chances are the Asian girls have completely cut off all ties with their family for dating them, or they have kept it a secret.
Do your homework Miss Sen.
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» RE: And another thing...
Posted by: rinkusen
» RE: And another thing...
Posted by: anotheropinion
» RE: And another thing...
Posted by: Hippington IV
» RE: And another thing...
Posted by: Aussie Kim
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Posted by: Seyazou on Sep 20, 2006 2:58 PM
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What ever their respective backgrounds may be, if they love each other on aly lever, I'd say leave them be. We may look, stare, criticize (personally I don't), but that's not going to change the way those two individuals see each other. It's all too easy to fall back into crude racial stereotypes when we see any interracial couple, but we really need to move beyond that. Any population where you have two or more different racial/ethnic/religious groups living side-by-side, interrelations are inevitable.
Given the history of American overseas military presence throughout the world, we no longer look twice when we see white servicemen (and now servicewomen) coming back with partners who are natives of the countries the service people were posted in. It should be no surpise that you have black service personnel coming back with Asian or European partners.
While a proud black man, I'm not an angry Black man. I say we need to stop wasting our time and energy tryin to hate on other couples just because their skin is a different color, or their facial features different. I mean so what! If they're feeling each other - let 'em be. There's already more than enough hate in the world. We need all the love we can get.
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Posted by: NYC Viktor on Sep 20, 2006 11:20 PM
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If these white producers really cared about portraying racial reality in America, then show Asian women with white men, which is commonplace, or Asian men with white women, which is becoming more common, or white men with a host of races, which has been common for quite some time. Television, Ms. Sen, is not reality, and therefore, cannot be used as any basis for the analysis of race relations in the United States. Just because you and a few of your Indian girlfriends have dated black men, or that it is shown on some shows on TV, does not mean it is a trend. Asian women are most likely to marry within their race or to a white man, and are unlikely to even interact with a black male in a professional setting. Ms. Sen is obviously mistaking her own experiences and those of some television programs for a trend, which it is not. Get in touch with reality before writing such an article. Do your homework, it prevents mediocre journalism!
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» RE: Ms. Sen has made some critical errors in her article...
Posted by: anotheropinion
» RE: Ms. Sen's alleged errors...
Posted by: wharton
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Posted by: Aussie Kim on Sep 21, 2006 1:25 AM
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I work at an English school and we end up with all sort of couples here - Brazilians dating Chinese, Turks dating Japanese, Colombians dating just about anyone... ;)
:)
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» RE: THIS is what globalisation should be about...
Posted by: ric2
» RE: THIS is what globalisation should be about...
Posted by: suprmark
» RE: THIS is what globalisation should be about...
Posted by: Aussie Kim
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Posted by: rbtt on Sep 21, 2006 4:27 AM
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Posted by: taliebabe on Sep 21, 2006 4:52 AM
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Posted by: andre on Sep 21, 2006 8:04 AM
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Thanks
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» RE: Asian women and black men, good match.
Posted by: wharton
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Posted by: rinkusen on Sep 21, 2006 9:59 AM
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» RE: rinkusen
Posted by: anotheropinion
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Posted by: nurstat on Sep 21, 2006 10:22 AM
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» RE: America Stop Race Mixing
Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: America Stop Race Mixing
Posted by: morticia
» RE: America Stop Race Mixing
Posted by: bigo_229
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Posted by: AaJay on Sep 21, 2006 12:12 PM
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Beyond that I really don’t think this article was particularly well thought.
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Posted by: Non_Theist on Sep 21, 2006 2:39 PM
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Perhaps because Asian women, and most def' Black men, are consider "other" in this culture the accusation of "slumming" would seem to be absurd.
But here's the other thing relative to television and the hypocritical statement made by that producer fellow in the above piece: How often on any program do we see a white woman and a Black man making the beast with two backs? Right. As I thought. We do see the occasional white male character making the swirl with a black woman, and I contend that this is merely and only a reflection of the white male's privledged position in this culture, which allows him to have his way with Black women, which we may trace all the way to the funny business that occured on many a plantation during this country's slavery period. All's I'm saying is let's be honest. This country still has a bug up its ass about Black men and White women getting their freak on.
Personally, I don't give a fig about who sleeps with whom. On the issue of miscegnation I'm with the Vulcans- Infinite Delight In Infinite Combinations. Word.
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Posted by: becomeuseless on Sep 21, 2006 7:15 PM
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Posted by: wharton on Sep 23, 2006 1:38 AM
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Posted by: Phenix on Sep 25, 2006 9:29 PM
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The word that set me off laughing was "voluptuous" which is code for she was fat. I don't know any kids from my high school who would turn down a date from a girl who was truly voluptuous. I mean you can't think of anything better as a high school student well that is if she has a face to go with her voluptuous body. If she was on the fatter side then I must thank black men who always seem to sntchg up the fat white girls. As a white guy I applaud you all for the effort. I of course will not return the favor.
On a serious note. This article is just pointless. I see no reason why its on alternet other than to fill some quota about social issues. Who really cares that asian women are dating black men. Well their families do especially the asian girls family but don't worry recent immigrant families want their daughters to find a guy from the same country. I had two friends who were dating. The girl was vietnamese and the guy was Chinese. Neither family would allow them to date. The main reason was that the Chinese and Vietnamese hate each other but the girls parents would not allow her to date outside of her nationality. Trust me I know. I tried but I was told it was impossible because I was white. I did this before she dated my good friend.
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» RE: I love this PARAGRAPH
Posted by: Aussie Kim
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Posted by: Chy11 on Oct 4, 2006 8:22 AM
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They seem to get ignored and bypassed a lot.
Here is my group and I want to say that Asian males are definitely welcome.
With love and peace to all.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/asianswholikeblackpeople/
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