COMMENTS: 137
The End of the Internet
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Verizon, Comcast, Bell South and other communications giants are developing strategies that would track and store information on our every move in cyberspace in a vast data-collection and marketing system, the scope of which could rival the National Security Agency.
According to white papers now being circulated in the cable, telephone and telecommunications industries, those with the deepest pockets -- corporations, special-interest groups and major advertisers -- would get preferred treatment. Content from these providers would have first priority on our computer and television screens, while information seen as undesirable, such as peer-to-peer communications, could be relegated to a slow lane or simply shut out.
Under the plans they are considering, all of us -- from content providers to individual users -- would pay more to surf online, stream videos or even send e-mail. Industry planners are mulling new subscription plans that would further limit the online experience, establishing "platinum," "gold" and "silver" levels of Internet access that would set limits on the number of downloads, media streams or even e-mail messages that could be sent or received.
To make this pay-to-play vision a reality, phone and cable lobbyists are now engaged in a political campaign to further weaken the nation's communications policy laws. They want the federal government to permit them to operate Internet and other digital communications services as private networks, free of policy safeguards or governmental oversight. Indeed, both the Congress and the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) are considering proposals that will have far-reaching impact on the Internet's future. Ten years after passage of the ill-advised Telecommunications Act of 1996, telephone and cable companies are using the same political snake oil to convince compromised or clueless lawmakers to subvert the Internet into a turbo-charged digital retail machine.
The telephone industry has been somewhat more candid than the cable industry about its strategy for the Internet's future. Senior phone executives have publicly discussed plans to begin imposing a new scheme for the delivery of Internet content, especially from major Internet content companies. As Ed Whitacre, chairman and CEO of AT&T, told Business Week in November, "Why should they be allowed to use my pipes? The Internet can't be free in that sense, because we and the cable companies have made an investment, and for a Google or Yahoo! or Vonage or anybody to expect to use these pipes [for] free is nuts!"
The phone industry has marshaled its political allies to help win the freedom to impose this new broadband business model. At a recent conference held by the Progress and Freedom Foundation, a think tank funded by Comcast, Verizon, AT&T and other media companies, there was much discussion of a plan for phone companies to impose fees on a sliding scale, charging content providers different levels of service. "Price discrimination," noted PFF's resident media expert Adam Thierer, "drives the market-based capitalist economy."
Net Neutrality
To ward off the prospect of virtual toll booths on the information highway, some new media companies and public-interest groups are calling for new federal policies requiring "network neutrality" on the Internet. Common Cause, Amazon, Google, Free Press, Media Access Project and Consumers Union, among others, have proposed that broadband providers would be prohibited from discriminating against all forms of digital content. For example, phone or cable companies would not be allowed to slow down competing or undesirable content.
Without proactive intervention, the values and issues that we care about -- civil rights, economic justice, the environment and fair elections -- will be further threatened by this push for corporate control. Imagine how the next presidential election would unfold if major political advertisers could make strategic payments to Comcast so that ads from Democratic and Republican candidates were more visible and user-friendly than ads of third-party candidates with less funds.
Consider what would happen if an online advertisement promoting nuclear power prominently popped up on a cable broadband page, while a competing message from an environmental group was relegated to the margins. It is possible that all forms of civic and noncommercial online programming would be pushed to the end of a commercial digital queue.
But such "neutrality" safeguards are inadequate to address more fundamental changes the Bells and cable monopolies are seeking in their quest to monetize the Internet. If we permit the Internet to become a medium designed primarily to serve the interests of marketing and personal consumption, rather than global civic-related communications, we will face the political consequences for decades to come. Unless we push back, the "brandwashing" of America will permeate not only our information infrastructure but global society and culture as well.
Why are the Bells and cable companies aggressively advancing such plans? With the arrival of the long-awaited "convergence" of communications, our media system is undergoing a major transformation. Telephone and cable giants envision a potential lucrative "triple play," as they impose near-monopoly control over the residential broadband services that send video, voice and data communications flowing into our televisions, home computers, cell phones and iPods. All of these many billions of bits will be delivered over the telephone and cable lines.
Video programming is of foremost interest to both the phone and cable companies. The telephone industry, like its cable rival, is now in the TV and media business, offering customers television channels, on-demand videos and games. Online advertising is increasingly integrating multimedia (such as animation and full-motion video) in its pitches. Since video-driven material requires a great deal of Internet bandwidth as it travels online, phone and cable companies want to make sure their television "applications" receive preferential treatment on the networks they operate. And their overall influence over the stream of information coming into your home (or mobile device) gives them the leverage to determine how the broadband business evolves.
Mining Your Data
At the core of the new power held by phone and cable companies are tools delivering what is known as "deep packet inspection." With these tools, AT&T and others can readily know the packets of information you are receiving online -- from e-mail, to websites, to sharing of music, video and software downloads.
These "deep packet inspection" technologies are partly designed to make sure that the Internet pipeline doesn't become so congested it chokes off the delivery of timely communications. Such products have already been sold to universities and large businesses that want to more economically manage their Internet services. They are also being used to limit some peer-to-peer downloading, especially for music.
But these tools are also being promoted as ways that companies, such as Comcast and Bell South, can simply grab greater control over the Internet. For example, in a series of recent white papers, Internet technology giant Cisco urges these companies to "meter individual subscriber usage by application," as individuals' online travels are "tracked" and "integrated with billing systems." Such tracking and billing is made possible because they will know "the identity and profile of the individual subscriber," "what the subscriber is doing" and "where the subscriber resides."
Will Google, Amazon and the other companies successfully fight the plans of the Bells and cable companies? Ultimately, they are likely to cut a deal because they, too, are interested in monetizing our online activities. After all, as Cisco notes, content companies and network providers will need to "cooperate with each other to leverage their value proposition." They will be drawn by the ability of cable and phone companies to track "content usage…by subscriber," and where their online services can be "protected from piracy, metered, and appropriately valued."
Our Digital Destiny
It was former FCC chairman Michael Powell, with the support of then-commissioner and current chair Kevin Martin, who permitted phone and cable giants to have greater control over broadband. Powell and his GOP majority eliminated longstanding regulatory safeguards requiring phone companies to operate as nondiscriminatory networks (technically known as "common carriers"). He refused to require that cable companies, when providing Internet access, also operate in a similar nondiscriminatory manner. As Stanford University law professor Lawrence Lessig has long noted, it is government regulation of the phone lines that helped make the Internet today's vibrant, diverse and democratic medium.
But now, the phone companies are lobbying Washington to kill off what's left of "common carrier" policy. They wish to operate their Internet services as fully "private" networks. Phone and cable companies claim that the government shouldn't play a role in broadband regulation: Instead of the free and open network that offers equal access to all, they want to reduce the Internet to a series of business decisions between consumers and providers.
Besides their business interests, telephone and cable companies also have a larger political agenda. Both industries oppose giving local communities the right to create their own local Internet wireless or wi-fi networks. They also want to eliminate the last vestige of local oversight from electronic media -- the ability of city or county government, for example, to require telecommunications companies to serve the public interest with, for example, public-access TV channels. The Bells also want to further reduce the ability of the FCC to oversee communications policy. They hope that both the FCC and Congress -- via a new Communications Act -- will back these proposals.
The future of the online media in the United States will ultimately depend on whether the Bells and cable companies are allowed to determine the country's "digital destiny." So before there are any policy decisions, a national debate should begin about how the Internet should serve the public. We must insure that phone and cable companies operate their Internet services in the public interest -- as stewards for a vital medium for free expression.
If Americans are to succeed in designing an equitable digital destiny for themselves, they must mount an intensive opposition similar to the successful challenges to the FCC's media ownership rules in 2003. Without such a public outcry to rein in the GOP's corporate-driven agenda, it is likely that even many of the Democrats who rallied against further consolidation will be "tamed" by the well-funded lobbying campaigns of the powerful phone and cable industry.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: Colin on Feb 6, 2006 4:47 AM
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The irony, of course, being that when Tim Berners-Lee merged his hypertext with the internet to create what we're typing on right now, he specifically did it for free and demanded no royalties. I remember hearing one economist claiming that if he had demanded some royalty and the internet had carried on to be the success it is today, Berners-Lee would have a personal fortune that would make Bill Gates look pretty small fry.
Phone companies - if you're listening, learn the lesson. I don't know if you've noticed but the entire world really is a better place because of one single persons' good will. Any chance of the next good person being you guys? (Sorry - news just in - it seems I have to phone a premium line before they'll even consider listening)
So, yeah. No surprises whatsoever that people are trying to squeeze money from places they really aren't entitled. Fortunately, we should all have strong governments, who's primary concern is the people they represent, who will fight to protect us from minority corporations wanting to take what isn't theirs. Oh fuck...
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» RE: And?
Posted by: boing007
» RE: And?
Posted by: Colin
» RE: And who paid for the upgrades?
Posted by: afrothetics
» RE: And?
Posted by: Lizka
» RE: And?
Posted by: Lizka
» RE: And?
Posted by: qidproquo
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Posted by: boing007 on Feb 6, 2006 5:06 AM
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I wish you would be more detailed and specific about the idea that some companies would 'find ways for people to pay for something they didn't have to originally.' I know that the Internet was conceived and designed by the militay and that, as taxpayers, we all paid for its creation. What else can you add to that?
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Posted by: starvinmarvy on Feb 6, 2006 6:35 AM
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thinking people,face today...now! Because if we lose this medium...this great place to communicate with others who
feel rejected by our government....to say what needs said....
to bond with others in a convenient way!! Its powerful ...and
they know it...and we`re about to lose it! I feel its already compromised with the NSA thing...keeping an eye on dissent
in our country.But we are in the near future about to lose any
way to communicate..."under the radar" ...so to speak!! Then
what? If we do not ...as free thinking...rational...citizens do
something to stop this legislation....we may as well open our
windows....take hold of our computers ...and toss them out the window!! Because we`ll need another way...to UNITE!!!
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» I think this is because Kerry damn near won and raised a billion $....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: If We`re to Unite....
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: Paul D on Feb 6, 2006 6:56 AM
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Once word gets around that there is an alternative to the crappy, expensive, and substandard service of a "private network", customers will begin to flow AWAY from the big names.
*ahem* AOL, anyone?
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» YOUR KIDDING? AOL censors incoming and outgoing email!
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: YOUR KIDDING? AOL censors incoming and outgoing email!
Posted by: Paul D
» RE: YOUR KIDDING? AOL censors incoming and outgoing email!
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» LOL, you think it's a matter of what *we* want??
Posted by: GreenLibbie
» RE: I'm no rabid "free market" proponent...
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: I'm no rabid "free market" proponent...
Posted by: glorybe
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Posted by: rabblerowzer on Feb 6, 2006 6:57 AM
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We are a nation ruled by a slim majority of shit-eating bottom-feeders to stupid to grasp their own self-interest.
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» RE: FASCISM SUCKS
Posted by: dwegowy
» RE: FASCISM SUCKS
Posted by: rabblerowzer
» RE: FASCISM SUCKS
Posted by: jwg
» RE: FASCISM SUCKS
Posted by: nptexas
» RE: FASCISM SUCKS
Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: FASCISM SUCKS
Posted by: gdieken
» Of Course they will
Posted by: GreenLibbie
» RE: Of Course they will
Posted by: Lizka
» RE: FASCISM SUCKS
Posted by: mac macgillicuddy
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Posted by: kick on Feb 6, 2006 7:12 AM
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» RE: Internet Domination
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Internet Domination
Posted by: starvinmarvy
» Act how?????
Posted by: Prophit
» act how???
Posted by: Coleman
» RE: Act how??? I'll tell you how!!!!
Posted by: actnow
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Posted by: Lincoln fan on Feb 6, 2006 8:06 AM
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Face it. We are stuck with two parties. A third party isn't an option. Our only hope is to take control of our government through the existing parties. If our votes are valuable we can do it. If they are not we can't. If our votes only decide which party serves the corporatocracy they are worthless.
"government of the people, by the people, and for the people" can such a nation long endure? Let's find out.
Join The Lincoln Initiative; not for the faint of heart.. Click on do it now
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» RE: There is only one important issue.
Posted by: Barbara
» RE: There is only one important issue.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: There is only one important issue.
Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: There is only one important issue.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: There is only one important issue.
Posted by: bodo
» RE: There is only one important issue.
Posted by: glorybe
» RE: There is only one important issue.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: smidget2k4 on Feb 6, 2006 8:07 AM
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Their plan cannot work the way the internet is set up. They can try to offer private nets sort of like AOL does, but that is pretty all. Also, it would have to be almost a global overthrow. Competition from elsewhere in the world would crush them.
I think this just may be a few overzealous CEOs talking about things they don't really know much about. It is really almost infeasable that they actually succeed with this.
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» RE: The only problem is...
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: The only problem is...
Posted by: bodo
» RE: The only problem is...
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» That's the whole point
Posted by: Iconoclast421
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Posted by: Summer on Feb 6, 2006 8:37 AM
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Correct me if I am wrong, but I think Al Gore came up with that idea, so every little town and every school would have access to the internet.
Remember when it was 10 cents a minute (at least it was in our area), how fast those minutes added up? It could get expensive fast.
The web sites aren't using the phone lines for free. Each person who has a phone pays for the cost. If you have two phones in your house, you pay two times the cost.
They count on the rest of us not being aware of this. They have convenient memories.
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» RE: We pay them for the lines now
Posted by: glorybe
» RE: We pay them for the lines now
Posted by: DrakeBrimstone
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Posted by: jrmart66 on Feb 6, 2006 8:44 AM
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Raise our voices. Bring the issues to the public. Get the local small papers involved. Get the town cable councils working. Silence is the ally of the Corporations. SPEAK OUT
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Posted by: karyse on Feb 6, 2006 8:54 AM
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Marx theorized "ideology," the mechanism that gets people to believe and do things that go counter to their best interests, and the internet, as seemingly satisfying as it is, is actually responsible for the radical fragmentation that has occured among people.
The internet, while seemingly "information rich" is acutally nothing but a drain one's time. It feels like I'm doing something as I write this post -- but am I? I am a "low level" user, in that I only spend an average of two hours a day online, but even at two hours a day, couldn't that time be better spent?
We are sitting isolated, in our little cubbies, preaching to the choir -- we get tidbits of information; we get the feeling that there are others that are like us; we pretend we have a "community" even as our public spaces have all but disappeared. Even research is a pain in the ass online; by the time I sift through all of the bogus links in a search, I'm too exhausted to do anything with the information I do find. Wouldn't it be better to go to a public library, encounter other people, get into a debate about something? Wouldn't it be better to start my own newspaper about local politics that wouldn't rely on capital and could therefore tell the truth?
I almost welcome a total, visible, takeover by Capital then, just as I quit reading the newspapers, watching television, using a cell phone, I could quit checking my email.
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» RE: capital
Posted by: metavurt
» RE: capital
Posted by: bowriter
» RE: capital
Posted by: Lizka
» RE: capital
Posted by: karyse
» RE: Preach to a choir that grows larger every day!!!
Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
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Posted by: kenhymes on Feb 6, 2006 8:59 AM
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» RE: Capital is half right
Posted by: karyse
» RE: Capital is half right
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: luckypablo on Feb 6, 2006 9:02 AM
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» RE: Its still a free country
Posted by: scrugun
» RE: Its still a free country
Posted by: Entheogenic
» RE: Its still a free country
Posted by: drich
» RE: Its still a free country
Posted by: granz
» RE: Its still a 'free' ignorant country
Posted by: NowYogi
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Feb 6, 2006 9:13 AM
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What the hell is this a**hole talking about? Free pipes?! We get our broadband via cable, and it costs us $40 a month, regardless of how much it's used. AT&T charges about the same. Cell phones cost from $30 to $100 or more per month, for crappy service that barely works half the time!
Mister wiseacre Whitacre's "pipes" are already being paid for with those fees and the monthly rental fees for phone lines; and now he wants MORE?! So, I guess corporations have figured out that if they raise monthly fees too much people will balk, so why not nickle-and-dime 'em to death with a million little penny-ante charges instead? I swear, if corporations could figure out how to put meters up our noses, they'd charge us for the very air we breathe. When will people wise up to the fact that uncontrolled corporate greed will eventually bleed us all dry?
The way that corporations think of human beings (or don't think of them) today, how long will it be before each new human in WalMart America will have to pay a corporation to merely continue to exist? Don't laugh: as of a few years ago, your and my genes could be patented without our knowledge, so that those of us who have unique qualities that industry wants, no longer own our own bodies. When it comes to corporate profit, ANYTHING is possible if a doller sign can be attached to it.
The only answer I can think of for this (forget politicians, they don't give a s**t about us because they know we vote like Lemmings) is to cancel services en masse to the point that we kill corporations' bottom lines. An example where this worked: the Montgomery, Alabama muni bus line back in the '60's, which treated blacks like crap until they boycotted. The bus line nearly went bankrupt before blacks returned. If it worked there, a boycott can work here as well. We need to stop the greed of corporations before they tie nooses around everybody's necks.
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» RE: Control the machine before the machine controls us.
Posted by: jonny_noog
» RE: Control the machine before the machine controls us.
Posted by: TheJamea
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Posted by: Kanefire on Feb 6, 2006 9:24 AM
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» RE: All Progressives Heed Warning
Posted by: dwegowy
» RE: All Progressives Heed Warning
Posted by: ttmrichter
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Posted by: JackA on Feb 6, 2006 10:22 AM
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I think there is what George Lakoff might call a "cognitive gap" on this one. My attempt to fill that gap is to look at the concept of "Givings", as part of "fairness" - the simple idea that the public receive fair compensation from private entities for what the public gives to them, in the nature of public resources, public investments, public airwaves, public infrastructure, subsidies, tax breaks, credits. The public must reserve free rights of usage, and receive monetary compensation in perpetuity for the use of its resources, such as airwaves in the case of TV media, for example. Since the U.S. citizens paid for the development of the internet with their tax dollars, and investment in educational infrastructures, and research, then this new dramatic and alarming development is definitely another corporate screw job.
Even the Pentagon is beginning to understand this necessity as it tries to sell its closed bases, such as El Toro for fair market value to private developers. We need to re-visit our contracts which gave away the internet, and take back rights which our bribed and corrupt politicians gave away for pennies on the dollar in campaign contributions and lobbying gifts. As for the internet companies, they received in effect "stolen property" , stolen from us, and have no right to keep it, under the present terms. I think there is room for negotiation here.
Every political candidate needs to address this issue of the internet, as well as the media, election integrity, the war and the national budget that gives 67% of it to war and war related expenses. We need to develop peace-related jobs, with workers who vote their jobs for peace, not for jobs producing horrific weapons.
Our communities are being sucked dry. Who is speaking up for our kids and families at home?
Every avenue of redress of grievances, of communication of information is being throttled. Whether its a quiet message on a t-shirt, or an internet e-mail
I watched Bill Gates recently say, with a churlish grin on his face, that it would be a good idea to charge a penny per e-mail to create a little "friction", or "resistance" on the internet. When the absolute right to freedom of speech is no longer a moral value in a culture, then you find the likes of desperate people burning down consulates over an offensive cartoon, as we just saw in the middle east. Our country's founders understood that they were designing a system for voices to be heard, and for peaceful transitions of government to occur without violence. This authoritarian corporate and theocratic cabal in Washington, is a real menace. The failure of Democrats and Republicans of good will to mount an offensive action to protect our communities and our rights, is an abomination. Even corporate pirates and those preachers who want to turn the U.S. into a Christian nation, as a base to spread Christianity all over the globe at the point of a gun, will have to learn the hard lesson, that unless, and until ALL of us are safe, secure, free, and prospering, NONE of us will be! That is the lesson of our Constitutional heritage.
Jack Kaplan
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» RE: The public must reserve free rights of usage
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: TagsNOLA on Feb 6, 2006 11:03 AM
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Even now, internet access costs more than it should. If there were a groundswell of public sentiment to nationalize the telephones, including cellular service, the internet and cable TV, I think the CEO's and shareholders of these corporate entities would "get religion" really fast.
True, a government owned communication grid could present problems all its own. But, if you consider that a show stopper, what you're saying in effect is that the constitutional republican model of governance does not really work in actual practice. But actually, I think it does. We have such a publicly owned "communication grid" already, the interstate highway system. So why not a publicly owned internet whose charter is to guarantee free, open and unmolested access to users, so long as their use is peacable, legal and respectful of the rights of others. And enforcement of that standard should be against those who violate the rights of others, not some kind of "profilaxis" that penalizes the rest of us.
TagsNOLA
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» Problems
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Problems
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» Serfs don't need to travel
Posted by: GreenLibbie
» CORPORATE CHARTERS NEED TO BE CHANGED IN LAW
Posted by: ordaj
» RE: TagsNOLA
Posted by: TheJamea
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Posted by: Ming on Feb 6, 2006 11:14 AM
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» RE: Give them the finger
Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: Give them the finger
Posted by: Barbara
» RE: Give them the finger
Posted by: crusty
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Posted by: condenser on Feb 6, 2006 11:33 AM
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I don' t share the view that there will always be some outfit that will exist as a cheaper option. The telecom networks are not owned by the peope and for the people. You may be able to sell access to the net cheaply, but how does that force the big players to carry your traffic on their lines? Not everyone can service the globe.
This is not a problem conerning just the internet. Who owns the water ressources of the world? I think it is clear that the peope who pipe it to your house do when you have no choice but to use their piping network. What will stand in the way of having people sell you passes to wonder around freely in an owned world one day?
It's the problem with the ownership of the world mentality that haunts capitalism. We have set no limits for it. It's all up for grabs. There are no moral restrictions.
Will the governments come to the rescue? Why would they? The monetary policies of the country encourage the creation of new sources of spending. We have become a GDP driven society. It is what sustains the current broken system. It is totally flawed. We need to start valuing social well being in our economic policies with measures like the Genuine Progress Indicator (GPI). If that interest you, here's a simple and clear overview: http://dieoff.org/page11.htm
The free net was good. I' ll miss it. It certainly isn't a necessity of life though. I got rid of my TV, radio and newspapers over two years ago. Surprisingly, I don't miss them at all. If there is one thing I have learned , it is that some freedom can come from eliminating spending also.
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» RE: The ownership of everything
Posted by: Lizka
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Posted by: cjones on Feb 6, 2006 11:42 AM
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Then why did you build them?
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» Uh ... Profit?
Posted by: AdamSelene11726
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Posted by: Syzygy on Feb 6, 2006 11:45 AM
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Our federal government is on a campaign to subvert our rights and they are succeeding because we have taken our eye off the ball. As a nation, we have convinced ourselves that we are powerless to stop this so we simply don't try. Let's keep in mind that our government is still relatively young and that self-destruction is very much in the realm of possibility.
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Posted by: gjames on Feb 6, 2006 11:56 AM
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» Well said
Posted by: ordaj
» will you really fuck him when if it happens?
Posted by: jpinder
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Posted by: iremember on Feb 6, 2006 12:10 PM
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» RE: what about dialup
Posted by: hkc
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Posted by: Summer on Feb 6, 2006 12:56 PM
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Sometimes, I look back to the peacefulness and the free time I had before there was much on TV that I liked, before there was a phone everywhere you went and when there was no internet. We had time to sit out side and sip tea and watch the chidren play and take an afternoon nap.
Now the kids are addicted to their video games, the net and TV. Our electricity goes off at times and it is hard to go cold turkey. But a person could cut way back and eliminate one or two of them, if it gets too ugly.
http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/charges.html has the charges that everyone pays on their phone bill. There are three charges that has to do with connectivity. One of them has to be paid by the customer, but some of charges, the companies are supposed to pay and they pass them to us to pay, too.
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Posted by: drmeow on Feb 6, 2006 1:04 PM
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Posted by: Edward George on Feb 6, 2006 2:05 PM
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Posted by: Edward George on Feb 6, 2006 2:20 PM
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Posted by: Freedom84 on Feb 6, 2006 2:26 PM
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» RE: The final attack on our freedom
Posted by: TheJamea
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Posted by: SicfkOfBush on Feb 6, 2006 3:20 PM
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Some two years ago I proposed to a Lockergnome blog a "charge" system for emails that would end spam and probably much of the malware. The idea goes like this:
Place a charge against the source at each stage of the transfer of emails for each email sent. Wait! Read it all before deciding it won't work.
Here is the plan. At each stage that stage issues a temporary charge against the prior stage to receive and pass on the email until it reaches the final addressee. The final addressee either opens the email, in which case the charge is cancelled back through the system using the Reply system already built in and no net charge results. If the final addressee fails to open the email and cancels it or designates the email as junk mail no credit is returned and the initiator is, in the end, the one who pays. The net result is no cost for legitimate emails.
The system can be set up by agreement between ISPs, without legislation and without any legal problems such as denial of constitutional rights. Only unopened emails or emails designated as junk mail by the final recipient will see a charge. Legitimate emails opened by the recipient will see no charge. No added software is needed to separate the junk from good mail. The recipient would act as the filter.
The system can include a procedure requiring each entity at each stage of the process to have an "account" set up with the next receiving stage or the email will not be accepted and passed on. Since an account identification is required at each stage, it will create a method for identifying the sender. Thus, creators of viruses, worms, and Trojans will be readily identified. Further, the expense of the sending massive numbers of emails will shut down the generators of nearly all spam. Also, attempts to take over other computer systems to act without the owners knowledge as the apparent source of the email can be frustrated by the need for an account for the email to be accepted and passed on.
Each initiator of email could establish a limit for the number of emails that that initiator would send each day, each month, or whatever. Anything beyond that number would not be accepted. Thus, a spammer could not take over an average user's computer and send out spam. For example, if I set my limit at 10 per day, no spammer could gain from that.
An association of ISPs would be set-up which would receive all funds and use them to cover any costs, maintain or advance the system.
As with all systems, some glitches will appear but they will, in most cases, be resolved. In any event, the system will be far better than what exist at present.
Dana Ridgley danarid@msn.com
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» RE: A tolerable email charge system
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» That's a pretty good idea.
Posted by: WhatNow?
» RE: That's a pretty good idea.
Posted by: hkc
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Posted by: Sojourner on Feb 6, 2006 6:52 PM
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"Public" is never free, but it has become a bad word because it means it belongs outside the market. Since the biggest market in town is called "election day," and since those who sell themselves to voters need tons of cash, all markets converge.
If owners of communication channels want to collect more money, they will have to pay more money in taxes and political contributions. But since they get to take a cut of whatever passes through their hands (I have yet to meet anyone whose phone bill is less today than it was 30 years ago) it's a game they are willing to play.
Fighting over the distribution of wealth is what it means to be a citizen. Every proposal made to increase private income from public communication deserves to be countered by new taxes that cannot be passed on to consumers.
But the new problem of Congress redesigning legislation in Conference Committee has made that orderly process a con-man's dream come true. No system can survive long under the terms of take the money and run.
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» Congress doesn't write legislation...
Posted by: ordaj
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Posted by: stefano on Feb 6, 2006 7:25 PM
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http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=3&ObjectID=10367068
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Posted by: JoeBackward on Feb 6, 2006 7:47 PM
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A lot of this has been going on for years. If you want to run a web site that serves a lot of content fast to AOL, home broadband, and edu domain subscribers, you need to sign an expensive contract with a good-quality internet data center. They charge for the bandwidth your web site sends out. The ones that have the best connectivity to the big subscriber bases charge more -- a lot more -- than other hosting places.
So, if Alternet, for example, wants to push a lot of high-bandwidth stuff all over the net, they'll have to pay their hosting provider to do that. The costs for a big-bandwidth web site are high enough to give deep-pocket corporations a big fat advantage.
If I download a 200 megabyte update from Microsoft on my comcast connection, it arrives in 5-6 minutes. If I download the same sized file from an independent game provider it can take half an hour. Guess which content provider pays more for network services? Microsoft.
Does this make sense? Well, basically, yes. Internet data centers take a LOT of electricity to operate. Reliable backbone service needs to have lots of redundant power supplies and cooling, etc = more electricity. Also, internet data centers have to pay "peering" charges for access to long-distance packet transmission and to big subscriber networks, and they pass this cost along. So the practice of charging for bandwidth, and charging more for "good" bandwidth, isn't necessarily nefarious at its root.
One of the threats mentioned in this article is traffic-shaping within the big subscriber networks based on content. Traffic-shaping = looking at the contents of packets to decide what priority they should have.
There are good technical reasons to do this traffic shaping. For example to make skype and other audio services work properly when the net is busy, those packets need a modest priority bump.
Another example: if you sign up for a web site that costs $20 a year and post a bunch of 50-megabyte highly attractive files, and thousands of people try to download them, your web site provider needs to shape your traffic to slow it down or go broke paying for the bandwidth to serve your content.
Now of course the network providers could do packet shaping for profit, trying to extract more money directly from content providers for fast-laning content. They already do. Just ask Akamai for a quote on data delivery to end users and you'll find out what I'm talking about.
Remember Claude Rains's line from Casablanca? "I'm shocked, shocked, to see that gambling is taking place in this establishment." Well, griping about the gross injustice of fast-lane content is the same thing -- it's already completely embedded in the economics of the internet.
There IS a threat that's real, and that is the use of content-sensitive traffic shaping technology to choke off certain traffic entirely. The Chinese government apparently does this. So does "Net Nanny" and the like .
Don't forget that documents of world-changing power like the US Declaration of Independence, the New Testament, or the Communist Manifesto are all hundreds of kilobytes long -- the same size as a few big JPEG files. It takes a lot of aggressive traffic shaping to completely block ideas.
If we're going to organize to counter a threat, let's do our homework first and know exactly what the problem is, and what solution we want.
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» RE: lots of this has been happening for years
Posted by: Lizka
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Posted by: rollo on Feb 6, 2006 7:50 PM
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» RE:Buyer l
Posted by: crusty
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Posted by: Slowburn on Feb 6, 2006 7:58 PM
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exchange ideas and information is a threat to the world that wealth has built for its self. Heaven forbid a truth grounded in a reality supported by logic get a foot hold in cyberspace It could infect the the hole country for gods sake. It is control of information, and mastery of equivocation that has given us a ruler and buried democracy. Our new plutocracy will protect us from ourselves whether we like it or not. The slope is slippery and getting steeper. We went over the top when the supreme court overruled a sovereign state and installed our neo emperor in 2000. The abyss awaits, some go with both eyes open while i being dragged by the gullible go fighting.
2+2=4 ?
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Posted by: ordaj on Feb 6, 2006 8:38 PM
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$200 Billion Dollar Broadband Scandal
ZDNet Story of Broadband scandal
It's already been paid for!
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Posted by: hkc on Feb 6, 2006 11:38 PM
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Another point that has been raised in this discussion is that the Internet was built by the US government and therefore should be treated as an entitlement. We should be clear about what the US government paid for and what we have today. DARPA paid for the basic research in data communications technology that forms the core of the Internet. As such the basic technology is freely available without license or royalty to anyone who wants to use it. This means that you can build an Internet compatible device without paying royalties to the government. It does not mean that you don't have to pay the developer of a a particular implementation that you want to use. The government did not pay for the physical network that we now use. The government has been out of the Internet business for over 10 years. In fact most people didn’t even know that there was an Internet until the government was long gone. When the government privatized the net private enterprise took over and popularized and promulgated it. This occurred in 1995. How many of you had Internet access before 1995? Since that time private industry has poured billions of dollars into Internet infrastructure; thousands of miles of fiber optics and hundereds of thousands of routers and access concentrators that switch data from point A to point B. The resulting network has exploded in capacity and responsiveness. The net is also largely free of government regulation or interference. There are a few areas where the government has been involved mostly to ensure fair and open access.
Internet service providers have been constantly looking for ways to escape the flat rate connection service model that started out on the original DARPANET. Differentiated services, where the user is asked to pay more for better quality of service, has been the Holy Grail of service providers from the earliest days. It has been a hard sell. Differentiated service doesn't make sense for email or web browsing or even bittorrent FTP. Today it is the promise of "triple-play", the convergence of data, voice and video that is driving the net towards differentiated services. Voice and video are the only common Internet services that absolutely require a better class of service than email and web browsing. So the logic goes if you need better service then you should be willing to pay more for it, at least for those applications like voice and video that require it.
The motivation of the service providers is and always has been to derive more revenue from their networks by differentiating the service provided. In fact eBay, Google and Yahoo already pay a huge amount for internet services and are busy building out their own networks to ensure that their users are not held up by delays in the networks of 3rd party service providers. It makes sense for eBay and Google to build out an access network with points of presence in all major population centers where they do business using their own lines so that they can guarantee access and responsiveness for their service. If the entrenched service providers like Sprint and MCI try to put the squeeze on Google they will find that the search company could very quickly become a competitive service provider.
(continued)
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Posted by: hkc on Feb 6, 2006 11:46 PM
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Voice is the goose that lays golden eggs in telecommunications. The global telecommunications business is worth over $1 Trillion per year. The lion's share, over 40%, (current statistics available at ITU-T.org, is from wireline voice. Mobile is next and data comes in a poor third. Yet of this traffic data has the highest volume. So voice pays the bills and data fills the lines. But now wireline voice revenues are under threat from Voice over IP (VoIP)over broadband and this really puts the fear of god into the network operators. If people can make voice calls anywhere at flat rate Internet access prices then there goes the golden goose.
VoIP is actually nothing new. It has been the only carrier technology for international telephone calls for years now. What is new is that VoIP is starting to be used for residential POTS (plain old telephone service). The network operators know that they cannot stop the march of VoIP, the economic imperatives are too strong. So what they hope to do is capture VoIP and Video over Broadband service as differentiated services within their own network. They want to offer the best VoIP quality of service and the best video over broadband service directly to their customers. What they do not want is for their customers to simply buy bit-pipe services and get their high value applications like voice and video from some third party content provider. To this end they want to provide better service quality to traffic carrying their own content and let other third party services fight for the leftovers. This is one of the "services" enabled by deep packet inspection. By looking into the data stream they can determine the nature of the data being carried and they can label their captive traffic for better service.
There is right now a battle going on between advocates of this "walled garden" approach with traditional telephony network operators and their associated hardware OEM's on one side and those that believe in a level playing field where one should not need to own the network in order to think up a new spiffy service and offer it to the public. The first group is pushing forward a standard for multimedia services over the Internet called IP Multimedia Subsystem (IMS). IMS is the vehicle that the service providers hope to use to realize their vision of the walled garden. Aligned against this closed vision is the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) and a host of hardware manufacturers that build IP equipment.
The outcome of this struggle is by no means clear. On the one hand the network operators have large capital reserves and they do own the wires but on the other hand the Internet is remarkably flexible and robust. It was, after all, designed to survive nuclear destruction. As John Gilmore said of censorship, "The Internet treats censorship as though it were a malfunction and routes around it", so similarly it can route around the walled gardens of the captive service architectures. But there is no room for complacency. Routing around censorship was probably never as true as it sounded since the ISPs completely control routing policy between themselves. Right now ISPs manipulate the system for their own profit but as we see in China the system can also be manipulated for political ends. The debate is too important to be left entirely up to the Internet technocrats.
Hank Cohen
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» RE: Are we talking bout free as in freedom or free as in beer? Part 2.
Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
» RE: Are we talking bout free as in freedom or free as in beer? Part 2.
Posted by: Bill Rathman
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Posted by: Stephen McArthur on Feb 7, 2006 4:15 AM
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The Progress & Freedom Foundation is not about progress or freedom. If it weren't so insidious an organization, the name would be a funny example of jabberwocky at its best.
It is an organization of corporations that does not have the interests of progress or freedom at its core. What it does have is self-interest, motivated by greed and profit.
One of the primary purposes of the Progress & Freedom Foundation is to take corporate control of the internet. Its first goal is described this way: "Deregulation of communications markets, including immediate deregulation of broadband services, and forbearance from regulation of wireless communications and the Internet."
The other anti-progress and anti-freedom goals are described here.
Supporters of The Progress & Freedom Foundation include -
Apple; AT&T; BellSouth; BMG; Business Software Alliance; Cellular Telecommunications & Internet Association; Cisco; Clear Channel Communications; Comcast Corporation; CompTIA; Disney; eBay; EchoStar Communications Corporation; Edison Electric Institute; EMI Group; FirstEnergy; Google; Hewlett-Packard Company; Howrey LLP; Intel; Intellectual Ventures; Intuit; Level 3 Communications; MCI; MGM; Microsoft; Motorola; National Cable & Telecommunications Association; NBC Universal; Nextel Communications; Nortel; Pinnacle West Capital Corporation; Progress Energy; QUALCOMM Incorporated; Qwest Communications; Sony Music Entertainment Inc.; Southern Company; Sprint; Sun Microsystems; Sybase, Inc.; Symantec Corporation; Telecommunications Industry Association; The News Corporation Limited; The SABRE Group; Time Warner; T-Mobile; VeriSign, Inc.; Verizon Communications; VIACOM; Visa USA; Vivendi; Winstar; Xcel Energy; XM Satellite Radio.
These corporations are not the friends of progress and freedom. They certainly are not the friends of a free and unfettered internet. They are voracious capitalist carnivores who see in the internet only one thing -- an enormous profit-center which they are working ceaselessly to own and operate. It would be progress for them if they were able take control freely of this huge potential.
In their own words, "For ten years, from the beginning of the Internet Revolution in 1993, through the high-tech meltdown of 2000-2002 and beyond, PFF has been a consistent voice for a market-oriented approach to capturing the opportunities presented by technological progress."
Reminiscent of many Politburo and KGB front organizations, they make up a name that represents the exact opposite of their strategy and purposes.
What PFF names itself and what it stands for is a classic example of Orwellian doublethink -- namely, holding two contradictory ideas in mind at the same time. In this case, PFF believes that its desire to dominate the internet is progress and will set us all free. Its compulsion, however, to own the internet is the irresistible force against which progress and freedom crash.
Orwell's Grave
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» RE: Stephen McArthur
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Stephen McArthur
Posted by: TheJamea
» Steve...
Posted by: starvinmarvy
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Posted by: alarm on Feb 7, 2006 5:49 AM
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"As an alternative to wireless companies that build infrastructure and charge for access, the Media Lab is studying "viral communications," in which every laptop or other wi-fi-enabled device would cooperate to relay data. In this "infrastructure-free" network, the system could have great resiliency, Reed says. If one route of information was blocked, other radios would form another trail to send along the data."
from the CSMonitor article 2004 edition
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0105/p13s02-wmgn.html
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» RE: Not a problem
Posted by: victoria2dc
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Posted by: Bearzerker44 on Feb 7, 2006 7:33 PM
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Don't you remember the Microsoft Lawsuit that conveniently went away after BushCo got elected...
Do we "not" currently have a monopoly operating system... worldwide...
Just like Santa Claws... they know if you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sakes... (you remember the rest of the song, hum it)
It's already happening, and has been underway for sometime.
The really scary thing is that the sheeple will probably not even notice that the corporate hustlers have been feeding the political machine for sometime with this "HUGE" pie there main goal. The digital age is upon us, the time of Telephone, TV & Radio Broadcasting are done, over... fin-ito... what happens after should be decided buy all of us, and not by the pigs and wolves that surround us...
We are the Sheeple; lead by Pigs and owned by Wolves
Buyer beware...
The Black hats are out there and I'm pretty sure "they" are the ones in power...
go to; CitizenLab to learn more... and for gods sake start using the FIREFOX web browser...
I leave you with a few "quotable quotes" from the immortal:
Lord Acton (1834-1902)
"The man who prefers his country before any other duty shows the same spirit as the man who surrenders every right to the state. They both deny that right is superior to authority. "
"The most certain test by which we judge whether a country is really free is the amount of security enjoyed by minorities."
"I exhort you never to debase the moral currency or to lower the standard of rectitude, but to try others by the final maxim that governs your own lives, and to suffer no man and no cause to escape the undying penalty which history has the power to inflict on wrong."
"Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end...liberty is the only object which benefits all alike, and provokes no sincere opposition...The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to to govern. Every class is unfit to govern...Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
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» RE: The "ENRON" Scandle of the Grafty Digital Domain
Posted by: TheJamea
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Posted by: victoria2dc on Feb 7, 2006 8:15 PM
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We better start a campaign, or it will be too late. As you know, the lobbying hasn't stopped just because Abramoff has pleaded. What are we going to do?
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Posted by: glorybe on Feb 8, 2006 9:02 PM
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Posted by: Roverton on Feb 8, 2006 11:34 PM
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Posted by: aedwards on Feb 9, 2006 7:08 AM
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These companies are regulating the internet and they will continue to do so as long as thier making money off of it. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. They have a business to run, I'm in no position to force my beliefs on them and wouldn't even if I was. I would however open my own ISP without the regulations these people use. If other people cared enough about the freedom on the internet my ISP would certainly become incredibly successful. That's the great thing about a free market, all contracts are mutually benificial to the parties involved.
We would really have a problem if the government is allowed to regulate what haoppens on the internet. We would have to watch everything we said, make sure it was all politically correct. It would cost a hell of a lot more too.
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» RE: Why worry?
Posted by: ngibson
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Posted by: ngibson on Feb 9, 2006 5:05 PM
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Anyone interested?
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Posted by: aedwards on Feb 10, 2006 8:21 AM
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These corperations are in it for the money. That is not a bad thing. It means that if there is a market for a completely open none regulated internet they will support it. Unlike the government these corperations care more about money then power. They don't care what you do with yourself. They will provide you with service as long as it remains profitable. They have no sadistic plan to take over the government or your life. They operate without any form of pregudious. What do they care who you are as long as you make them money? All you have to do is tell them what you want. You do this by paying for it.
Money is not the route of all evil. Money is a tool to be used to serve your interessts. Far better that the people in pursuit of money comtrol the internet then the people in pursuit of power.
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» RE: What are your priorities?
Posted by: Freedom84
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Posted by: Colin on Feb 6, 2006 4:47 AM
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The irony, of course, being that when Tim Berners-Lee merged his hypertext with the internet to create what we're typing on right now, he specifically did it for free and demanded no royalties. I remember hearing one economist claiming that if he had demanded some royalty and the internet had carried on to be the success it is today, Berners-Lee would have a personal fortune that would make Bill Gates look pretty small fry.
Phone companies - if you're listening, learn the lesson. I don't know if you've noticed but the entire world really is a better place because of one single persons' good will. Any chance of the next good person being you guys? (Sorry - news just in - it seems I have to phone a premium line before they'll even consider listening)
So, yeah. No surprises whatsoever that people are trying to squeeze money from places they really aren't entitled. Fortunately, we should all have strong governments, who's primary concern is the people they represent, who will fight to protect us from minority corporations wanting to take what isn't theirs. Oh fuck...
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» RE: And?
Posted by: boing007
» RE: And?
Posted by: Colin
» RE: And who paid for the upgrades?
Posted by: afrothetics
» RE: And?
Posted by: Lizka
» RE: And?
Posted by: Lizka
» RE: And?
Posted by: qidproquo
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Posted by: boing007 on Feb 6, 2006 5:06 AM
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I wish you would be more detailed and specific about the idea that some companies would 'find ways for people to pay for something they didn't have to originally.' I know that the Internet was conceived and designed by the militay and that, as taxpayers, we all paid for its creation. What else can you add to that?
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Posted by: starvinmarvy on Feb 6, 2006 6:35 AM
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thinking people,face today...now! Because if we lose this medium...this great place to communicate with others who
feel rejected by our government....to say what needs said....
to bond with others in a convenient way!! Its powerful ...and
they know it...and we`re about to lose it! I feel its already compromised with the NSA thing...keeping an eye on dissent
in our country.But we are in the near future about to lose any
way to communicate..."under the radar" ...so to speak!! Then
what? If we do not ...as free thinking...rational...citizens do
something to stop this legislation....we may as well open our
windows....take hold of our computers ...and toss them out the window!! Because we`ll need another way...to UNITE!!!
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» I think this is because Kerry damn near won and raised a billion $....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: If We`re to Unite....
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: Paul D on Feb 6, 2006 6:56 AM
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Once word gets around that there is an alternative to the crappy, expensive, and substandard service of a "private network", customers will begin to flow AWAY from the big names.
*ahem* AOL, anyone?
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» YOUR KIDDING? AOL censors incoming and outgoing email!
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: YOUR KIDDING? AOL censors incoming and outgoing email!
Posted by: Paul D
» RE: YOUR KIDDING? AOL censors incoming and outgoing email!
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» LOL, you think it's a matter of what *we* want??
Posted by: GreenLibbie
» RE: I'm no rabid "free market" proponent...
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: I'm no rabid "free market" proponent...
Posted by: glorybe
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Posted by: rabblerowzer on Feb 6, 2006 6:57 AM
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We are a nation ruled by a slim majority of shit-eating bottom-feeders to stupid to grasp their own self-interest.
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» RE: FASCISM SUCKS
Posted by: dwegowy
» RE: FASCISM SUCKS
Posted by: rabblerowzer
» RE: FASCISM SUCKS
Posted by: jwg
» RE: FASCISM SUCKS
Posted by: nptexas
» RE: FASCISM SUCKS
Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: FASCISM SUCKS
Posted by: gdieken
» Of Course they will
Posted by: GreenLibbie
» RE: Of Course they will
Posted by: Lizka
» RE: FASCISM SUCKS
Posted by: mac macgillicuddy
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Posted by: kick on Feb 6, 2006 7:12 AM
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» RE: Internet Domination
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Internet Domination
Posted by: starvinmarvy
» Act how?????
Posted by: Prophit
» act how???
Posted by: Coleman
» RE: Act how??? I'll tell you how!!!!
Posted by: actnow
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Posted by: Lincoln fan on Feb 6, 2006 8:06 AM
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Face it. We are stuck with two parties. A third party isn't an option. Our only hope is to take control of our government through the existing parties. If our votes are valuable we can do it. If they are not we can't. If our votes only decide which party serves the corporatocracy they are worthless.
"government of the people, by the people, and for the people" can such a nation long endure? Let's find out.
Join The Lincoln Initiative; not for the faint of heart.. Click on do it now
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» RE: There is only one important issue.
Posted by: Barbara
» RE: There is only one important issue.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: There is only one important issue.
Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: There is only one important issue.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: There is only one important issue.
Posted by: bodo
» RE: There is only one important issue.
Posted by: glorybe
» RE: There is only one important issue.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: smidget2k4 on Feb 6, 2006 8:07 AM
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Their plan cannot work the way the internet is set up. They can try to offer private nets sort of like AOL does, but that is pretty all. Also, it would have to be almost a global overthrow. Competition from elsewhere in the world would crush them.
I think this just may be a few overzealous CEOs talking about things they don't really know much about. It is really almost infeasable that they actually succeed with this.
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» RE: The only problem is...
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: The only problem is...
Posted by: bodo
» RE: The only problem is...
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» That's the whole point
Posted by: Iconoclast421
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Posted by: Summer on Feb 6, 2006 8:37 AM
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Correct me if I am wrong, but I think Al Gore came up with that idea, so every little town and every school would have access to the internet.
Remember when it was 10 cents a minute (at least it was in our area), how fast those minutes added up? It could get expensive fast.
The web sites aren't using the phone lines for free. Each person who has a phone pays for the cost. If you have two phones in your house, you pay two times the cost.
They count on the rest of us not being aware of this. They have convenient memories.
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» RE: We pay them for the lines now
Posted by: glorybe
» RE: We pay them for the lines now
Posted by: DrakeBrimstone
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Posted by: jrmart66 on Feb 6, 2006 8:44 AM
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Raise our voices. Bring the issues to the public. Get the local small papers involved. Get the town cable councils working. Silence is the ally of the Corporations. SPEAK OUT
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Posted by: karyse on Feb 6, 2006 8:54 AM
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Marx theorized "ideology," the mechanism that gets people to believe and do things that go counter to their best interests, and the internet, as seemingly satisfying as it is, is actually responsible for the radical fragmentation that has occured among people.
The internet, while seemingly "information rich" is acutally nothing but a drain one's time. It feels like I'm doing something as I write this post -- but am I? I am a "low level" user, in that I only spend an average of two hours a day online, but even at two hours a day, couldn't that time be better spent?
We are sitting isolated, in our little cubbies, preaching to the choir -- we get tidbits of information; we get the feeling that there are others that are like us; we pretend we have a "community" even as our public spaces have all but disappeared. Even research is a pain in the ass online; by the time I sift through all of the bogus links in a search, I'm too exhausted to do anything with the information I do find. Wouldn't it be better to go to a public library, encounter other people, get into a debate about something? Wouldn't it be better to start my own newspaper about local politics that wouldn't rely on capital and could therefore tell the truth?
I almost welcome a total, visible, takeover by Capital then, just as I quit reading the newspapers, watching television, using a cell phone, I could quit checking my email.
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» RE: capital
Posted by: metavurt
» RE: capital
Posted by: bowriter
» RE: capital
Posted by: Lizka
» RE: capital
Posted by: karyse
» RE: Preach to a choir that grows larger every day!!!
Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
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Posted by: kenhymes on Feb 6, 2006 8:59 AM
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» RE: Capital is half right
Posted by: karyse
» RE: Capital is half right
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: luckypablo on Feb 6, 2006 9:02 AM
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» RE: Its still a free country
Posted by: scrugun
» RE: Its still a free country
Posted by: Entheogenic
» RE: Its still a free country
Posted by: drich
» RE: Its still a free country
Posted by: granz
» RE: Its still a 'free' ignorant country
Posted by: NowYogi
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Feb 6, 2006 9:13 AM
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What the hell is this a**hole talking about? Free pipes?! We get our broadband via cable, and it costs us $40 a month, regardless of how much it's used. AT&T charges about the same. Cell phones cost from $30 to $100 or more per month, for crappy service that barely works half the time!
Mister wiseacre Whitacre's "pipes" are already being paid for with those fees and the monthly rental fees for phone lines; and now he wants MORE?! So, I guess corporations have figured out that if they raise monthly fees too much people will balk, so why not nickle-and-dime 'em to death with a million little penny-ante charges instead? I swear, if corporations could figure out how to put meters up our noses, they'd charge us for the very air we breathe. When will people wise up to the fact that uncontrolled corporate greed will eventually bleed us all dry?
The way that corporations think of human beings (or don't think of them) today, how long will it be before each new human in WalMart America will have to pay a corporation to merely continue to exist? Don't laugh: as of a few years ago, your and my genes could be patented without our knowledge, so that those of us who have unique qualities that industry wants, no longer own our own bodies. When it comes to corporate profit, ANYTHING is possible if a doller sign can be attached to it.
The only answer I can think of for this (forget politicians, they don't give a s**t about us because they know we vote like Lemmings) is to cancel services en masse to the point that we kill corporations' bottom lines. An example where this worked: the Montgomery, Alabama muni bus line back in the '60's, which treated blacks like crap until they boycotted. The bus line nearly went bankrupt before blacks returned. If it worked there, a boycott can work here as well. We need to stop the greed of corporations before they tie nooses around everybody's necks.
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» RE: Control the machine before the machine controls us.
Posted by: jonny_noog
» RE: Control the machine before the machine controls us.
Posted by: TheJamea
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Posted by: Kanefire on Feb 6, 2006 9:24 AM
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» RE: All Progressives Heed Warning
Posted by: dwegowy
» RE: All Progressives Heed Warning
Posted by: ttmrichter
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Posted by: JackA on Feb 6, 2006 10:22 AM
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I think there is what George Lakoff might call a "cognitive gap" on this one. My attempt to fill that gap is to look at the concept of "Givings", as part of "fairness" - the simple idea that the public receive fair compensation from private entities for what the public gives to them, in the nature of public resources, public investments, public airwaves, public infrastructure, subsidies, tax breaks, credits. The public must reserve free rights of usage, and receive monetary compensation in perpetuity for the use of its resources, such as airwaves in the case of TV media, for example. Since the U.S. citizens paid for the development of the internet with their tax dollars, and investment in educational infrastructures, and research, then this new dramatic and alarming development is definitely another corporate screw job.
Even the Pentagon is beginning to understand this necessity as it tries to sell its closed bases, such as El Toro for fair market value to private developers. We need to re-visit our contracts which gave away the internet, and take back rights which our bribed and corrupt politicians gave away for pennies on the dollar in campaign contributions and lobbying gifts. As for the internet companies, they received in effect "stolen property" , stolen from us, and have no right to keep it, under the present terms. I think there is room for negotiation here.
Every political candidate needs to address this issue of the internet, as well as the media, election integrity, the war and the national budget that gives 67% of it to war and war related expenses. We need to develop peace-related jobs, with workers who vote their jobs for peace, not for jobs producing horrific weapons.
Our communities are being sucked dry. Who is speaking up for our kids and families at home?
Every avenue of redress of grievances, of communication of information is being throttled. Whether its a quiet message on a t-shirt, or an internet e-mail
I watched Bill Gates recently say, with a churlish grin on his face, that it would be a good idea to charge a penny per e-mail to create a little "friction", or "resistance" on the internet. When the absolute right to freedom of speech is no longer a moral value in a culture, then you find the likes of desperate people burning down consulates over an offensive cartoon, as we just saw in the middle east. Our country's founders understood that they were designing a system for voices to be heard, and for peaceful transitions of government to occur without violence. This authoritarian corporate and theocratic cabal in Washington, is a real menace. The failure of Democrats and Republicans of good will to mount an offensive action to protect our communities and our rights, is an abomination. Even corporate pirates and those preachers who want to turn the U.S. into a Christian nation, as a base to spread Christianity all over the globe at the point of a gun, will have to learn the hard lesson, that unless, and until ALL of us are safe, secure, free, and prospering, NONE of us will be! That is the lesson of our Constitutional heritage.
Jack Kaplan
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» RE: The public must reserve free rights of usage
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: TagsNOLA on Feb 6, 2006 11:03 AM
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Even now, internet access costs more than it should. If there were a groundswell of public sentiment to nationalize the telephones, including cellular service, the internet and cable TV, I think the CEO's and shareholders of these corporate entities would "get religion" really fast.
True, a government owned communication grid could present problems all its own. But, if you consider that a show stopper, what you're saying in effect is that the constitutional republican model of governance does not really work in actual practice. But actually, I think it does. We have such a publicly owned "communication grid" already, the interstate highway system. So why not a publicly owned internet whose charter is to guarantee free, open and unmolested access to users, so long as their use is peacable, legal and respectful of the rights of others. And enforcement of that standard should be against those who violate the rights of others, not some kind of "profilaxis" that penalizes the rest of us.
TagsNOLA
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» Problems
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Problems
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» Serfs don't need to travel
Posted by: GreenLibbie
» CORPORATE CHARTERS NEED TO BE CHANGED IN LAW
Posted by: ordaj
» RE: TagsNOLA
Posted by: TheJamea
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Posted by: Ming on Feb 6, 2006 11:14 AM
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» RE: Give them the finger
Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: Give them the finger
Posted by: Barbara
» RE: Give them the finger
Posted by: crusty
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Posted by: condenser on Feb 6, 2006 11:33 AM
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I don' t share the view that there will always be some outfit that will exist as a cheaper option. The telecom networks are not owned by the peope and for the people. You may be able to sell access to the net cheaply, but how does that force the big players to carry your traffic on their lines? Not everyone can service the globe.
This is not a problem conerning just the internet. Who owns the water ressources of the world? I think it is clear that the peope who pipe it to your house do when you have no choice but to use their piping network. What will stand in the way of having people sell you passes to wonder around freely in an owned world one day?
It's the problem with the ownership of the world mentality that haunts capitalism. We have set no limits for it. It's all up for grabs. There are no moral restrictions.
Will the governments come to the rescue? Why would they? The monetary policies of the country encourage the creation of new sources of spending. We have become a GDP driven society. It is what sustains the current broken system. It is totally flawed. We need to start valuing social well being in our economic policies with measures like the Genuine Progress Indicator (GPI). If that interest you, here's a simple and clear overview: http://dieoff.org/page11.htm
The free net was good. I' ll miss it. It certainly isn't a necessity of life though. I got rid of my TV, radio and newspapers over two years ago. Surprisingly, I don't miss them at all. If there is one thing I have learned , it is that some freedom can come from eliminating spending also.
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» RE: The ownership of everything
Posted by: Lizka
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Posted by: cjones on Feb 6, 2006 11:42 AM
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Then why did you build them?
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» Uh ... Profit?
Posted by: AdamSelene11726
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Posted by: Syzygy on Feb 6, 2006 11:45 AM
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Our federal government is on a campaign to subvert our rights and they are succeeding because we have taken our eye off the ball. As a nation, we have convinced ourselves that we are powerless to stop this so we simply don't try. Let's keep in mind that our government is still relatively young and that self-destruction is very much in the realm of possibility.
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Posted by: gjames on Feb 6, 2006 11:56 AM
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» Well said
Posted by: ordaj
» will you really fuck him when if it happens?
Posted by: jpinder
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Posted by: iremember on Feb 6, 2006 12:10 PM
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» RE: what about dialup
Posted by: hkc
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Posted by: Summer on Feb 6, 2006 12:56 PM
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Sometimes, I look back to the peacefulness and the free time I had before there was much on TV that I liked, before there was a phone everywhere you went and when there was no internet. We had time to sit out side and sip tea and watch the chidren play and take an afternoon nap.
Now the kids are addicted to their video games, the net and TV. Our electricity goes off at times and it is hard to go cold turkey. But a person could cut way back and eliminate one or two of them, if it gets too ugly.
http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/charges.html has the charges that everyone pays on their phone bill. There are three charges that has to do with connectivity. One of them has to be paid by the customer, but some of charges, the companies are supposed to pay and they pass them to us to pay, too.
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Posted by: drmeow on Feb 6, 2006 1:04 PM
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Posted by: Edward George on Feb 6, 2006 2:05 PM
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Posted by: Edward George on Feb 6, 2006 2:20 PM
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Posted by: Freedom84 on Feb 6, 2006 2:26 PM
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» RE: The final attack on our freedom
Posted by: TheJamea
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Posted by: SicfkOfBush on Feb 6, 2006 3:20 PM
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Some two years ago I proposed to a Lockergnome blog a "charge" system for emails that would end spam and probably much of the malware. The idea goes like this:
Place a charge against the source at each stage of the transfer of emails for each email sent. Wait! Read it all before deciding it won't work.
Here is the plan. At each stage that stage issues a temporary charge against the prior stage to receive and pass on the email until it reaches the final addressee. The final addressee either opens the email, in which case the charge is cancelled back through the system using the Reply system already built in and no net charge results. If the final addressee fails to open the email and cancels it or designates the email as junk mail no credit is returned and the initiator is, in the end, the one who pays. The net result is no cost for legitimate emails.
The system can be set up by agreement between ISPs, without legislation and without any legal problems such as denial of constitutional rights. Only unopened emails or emails designated as junk mail by the final recipient will see a charge. Legitimate emails opened by the recipient will see no charge. No added software is needed to separate the junk from good mail. The recipient would act as the filter.
The system can include a procedure requiring each entity at each stage of the process to have an "account" set up with the next receiving stage or the email will not be accepted and passed on. Since an account identification is required at each stage, it will create a method for identifying the sender. Thus, creators of viruses, worms, and Trojans will be readily identified. Further, the expense of the sending massive numbers of emails will shut down the generators of nearly all spam. Also, attempts to take over other computer systems to act without the owners knowledge as the apparent source of the email can be frustrated by the need for an account for the email to be accepted and passed on.
Each initiator of email could establish a limit for the number of emails that that initiator would send each day, each month, or whatever. Anything beyond that number would not be accepted. Thus, a spammer could not take over an average user's computer and send out spam. For example, if I set my limit at 10 per day, no spammer could gain from that.
An association of ISPs would be set-up which would receive all funds and use them to cover any costs, maintain or advance the system.
As with all systems, some glitches will appear but they will, in most cases, be resolved. In any event, the system will be far better than what exist at present.
Dana Ridgley danarid@msn.com
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» RE: A tolerable email charge system
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» That's a pretty good idea.
Posted by: WhatNow?
» RE: That's a pretty good idea.
Posted by: hkc
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Posted by: Sojourner on Feb 6, 2006 6:52 PM
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"Public" is never free, but it has become a bad word because it means it belongs outside the market. Since the biggest market in town is called "election day," and since those who sell themselves to voters need tons of cash, all markets converge.
If owners of communication channels want to collect more money, they will have to pay more money in taxes and political contributions. But since they get to take a cut of whatever passes through their hands (I have yet to meet anyone whose phone bill is less today than it was 30 years ago) it's a game they are willing to play.
Fighting over the distribution of wealth is what it means to be a citizen. Every proposal made to increase private income from public communication deserves to be countered by new taxes that cannot be passed on to consumers.
But the new problem of Congress redesigning legislation in Conference Committee has made that orderly process a con-man's dream come true. No system can survive long under the terms of take the money and run.
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» Congress doesn't write legislation...
Posted by: ordaj
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Posted by: stefano on Feb 6, 2006 7:25 PM
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http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=3&ObjectID=10367068
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Posted by: JoeBackward on Feb 6, 2006 7:47 PM
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A lot of this has been going on for years. If you want to run a web site that serves a lot of content fast to AOL, home broadband, and edu domain subscribers, you need to sign an expensive contract with a good-quality internet data center. They charge for the bandwidth your web site sends out. The ones that have the best connectivity to the big subscriber bases charge more -- a lot more -- than other hosting places.
So, if Alternet, for example, wants to push a lot of high-bandwidth stuff all over the net, they'll have to pay their hosting provider to do that. The costs for a big-bandwidth web site are high enough to give deep-pocket corporations a big fat advantage.
If I download a 200 megabyte update from Microsoft on my comcast connection, it arrives in 5-6 minutes. If I download the same sized file from an independent game provider it can take half an hour. Guess which content provider pays more for network services? Microsoft.
Does this make sense? Well, basically, yes. Internet data centers take a LOT of electricity to operate. Reliable backbone service needs to have lots of redundant power supplies and cooling, etc = more electricity. Also, internet data centers have to pay "peering" charges for access to long-distance packet transmission and to big subscriber networks, and they pass this cost along. So the practice of charging for bandwidth, and charging more for "good" bandwidth, isn't necessarily nefarious at its root.
One of the threats mentioned in this article is traffic-shaping within the big subscriber networks based on content. Traffic-shaping = looking at the contents of packets to decide what priority they should have.
There are good technical reasons to do this traffic shaping. For example to make skype and other audio services work properly when the net is busy, those packets need a modest priority bump.
Another example: if you sign up for a web site that costs $20 a year and post a bunch of 50-megabyte highly attractive files, and thousands of people try to download them, your web site provider needs to shape your traffic to slow it down or go broke paying for the bandwidth to serve your content.
Now of course the network providers could do packet shaping for profit, trying to extract more money directly from content providers for fast-laning content. They already do. Just ask Akamai for a quote on data delivery to end users and you'll find out what I'm talking about.
Remember Claude Rains's line from Casablanca? "I'm shocked, shocked, to see that gambling is taking place in this establishment." Well, griping about the gross injustice of fast-lane content is the same thing -- it's already completely embedded in the economics of the internet.
There IS a threat that's real, and that is the use of content-sensitive traffic shaping technology to choke off certain traffic entirely. The Chinese government apparently does this. So does "Net Nanny" and the like .
Don't forget that documents of world-changing power like the US Declaration of Independence, the New Testament, or the Communist Manifesto are all hundreds of kilobytes long -- the same size as a few big JPEG files. It takes a lot of aggressive traffic shaping to completely block ideas.
If we're going to organize to counter a threat, let's do our homework first and know exactly what the problem is, and what solution we want.
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» RE: lots of this has been happening for years
Posted by: Lizka
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Posted by: rollo on Feb 6, 2006 7:50 PM
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» RE:Buyer l
Posted by: crusty
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Posted by: Slowburn on Feb 6, 2006 7:58 PM
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exchange ideas and information is a threat to the world that wealth has built for its self. Heaven forbid a truth grounded in a reality supported by logic get a foot hold in cyberspace It could infect the the hole country for gods sake. It is control of information, and mastery of equivocation that has given us a ruler and buried democracy. Our new plutocracy will protect us from ourselves whether we like it or not. The slope is slippery and getting steeper. We went over the top when the supreme court overruled a sovereign state and installed our neo emperor in 2000. The abyss awaits, some go with both eyes open while i being dragged by the gullible go fighting.
2+2=4 ?
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Posted by: ordaj on Feb 6, 2006 8:38 PM
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$200 Billion Dollar Broadband Scandal
ZDNet Story of Broadband scandal
It's already been paid for!
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Posted by: hkc on Feb 6, 2006 11:38 PM
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Another point that has been raised in this discussion is that the Internet was built by the US government and therefore should be treated as an entitlement. We should be clear about what the US government paid for and what we have today. DARPA paid for the basic research in data communications technology that forms the core of the Internet. As such the basic technology is freely available without license or royalty to anyone who wants to use it. This means that you can build an Internet compatible device without paying royalties to the government. It does not mean that you don't have to pay the developer of a a particular implementation that you want to use. The government did not pay for the physical network that we now use. The government has been out of the Internet business for over 10 years. In fact most people didn’t even know that there was an Internet until the government was long gone. When the government privatized the net private enterprise took over and popularized and promulgated it. This occurred in 1995. How many of you had Internet access before 1995? Since that time private industry has poured billions of dollars into Internet infrastructure; thousands of miles of fiber optics and hundereds of thousands of routers and access concentrators that switch data from point A to point B. The resulting network has exploded in capacity and responsiveness. The net is also largely free of government regulation or interference. There are a few areas where the government has been involved mostly to ensure fair and open access.
Internet service providers have been constantly looking for ways to escape the flat rate connection service model that started out on the original DARPANET. Differentiated services, where the user is asked to pay more for better quality of service, has been the Holy Grail of service providers from the earliest days. It has been a hard sell. Differentiated service doesn't make sense for email or web browsing or even bittorrent FTP. Today it is the promise of "triple-play", the convergence of data, voice and video that is driving the net towards differentiated services. Voice and video are the only common Internet services that absolutely require a better class of service than email and web browsing. So the logic goes if you need better service then you should be willing to pay more for it, at least for those applications like voice and video that require it.
The motivation of the service providers is and always has been to derive more revenue from their networks by differentiating the service provided. In fact eBay, Google and Yahoo already pay a huge amount for internet services and are busy building out their own networks to ensure that their users are not held up by delays in the networks of 3rd party service providers. It makes sense for eBay and Google to build out an access network with points of presence in all major population centers where they do business using their own lines so that they can guarantee access and responsiveness for their service. If the entrenched service providers like Sprint and MCI try to put the squeeze on Google they will find that the search company could very quickly become a competitive service provider.
(continued)
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Posted by: hkc on Feb 6, 2006 11:46 PM
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Voice is the goose that lays golden eggs in telecommunications. The global telecommunications business is worth over $1 Trillion per year. The lion's share, over 40%, (current statistics available at ITU-T.org, is from wireline voice. Mobile is next and data comes in a poor third. Yet of this traffic data has the highest volume. So voice pays the bills and data fills the lines. But now wireline voice revenues are under threat from Voice over IP (VoIP)over broadband and this really puts the fear of god into the network operators. If people can make voice calls anywhere at flat rate Internet access prices then there goes the golden goose.
VoIP is actually nothing new. It has been the only carrier technology for international telephone calls for years now. What is new is that VoIP is starting to be used for residential POTS (plain old telephone service). The network operators know that they cannot stop the march of VoIP, the economic imperatives are too strong. So what they hope to do is capture VoIP and Video over Broadband service as differentiated services within their own network. They want to offer the best VoIP quality of service and the best video over broadband service directly to their customers. What they do not want is for their customers to simply buy bit-pipe services and get their high value applications like voice and video from some third party content provider. To this end they want to provide better service quality to traffic carrying their own content and let other third party services fight for the leftovers. This is one of the "services" enabled by deep packet inspection. By looking into the data stream they can determine the nature of the data being carried and they can label their captive traffic for better service.
There is right now a battle going on between advocates of this "walled garden" approach with traditional telephony network operators and their associated hardware OEM's on one side and those that believe in a level playing field where one should not need to own the network in order to think up a new spiffy service and offer it to the public. The first group is pushing forward a standard for multimedia services over the Internet called IP Multimedia Subsystem (IMS). IMS is the vehicle that the service providers hope to use to realize their vision of the walled garden. Aligned against this closed vision is the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) and a host of hardware manufacturers that build IP equipment.
The outcome of this struggle is by no means clear. On the one hand the network operators have large capital reserves and they do own the wires but on the other hand the Internet is remarkably flexible and robust. It was, after all, designed to survive nuclear destruction. As John Gilmore said of censorship, "The Internet treats censorship as though it were a malfunction and routes around it", so similarly it can route around the walled gardens of the captive service architectures. But there is no room for complacency. Routing around censorship was probably never as true as it sounded since the ISPs completely control routing policy between themselves. Right now ISPs manipulate the system for their own profit but as we see in China the system can also be manipulated for political ends. The debate is too important to be left entirely up to the Internet technocrats.
Hank Cohen
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» RE: Are we talking bout free as in freedom or free as in beer? Part 2.
Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
» RE: Are we talking bout free as in freedom or free as in beer? Part 2.
Posted by: Bill Rathman
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Posted by: Stephen McArthur on Feb 7, 2006 4:15 AM
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The Progress & Freedom Foundation is not about progress or freedom. If it weren't so insidious an organization, the name would be a funny example of jabberwocky at its best.
It is an organization of corporations that does not have the interests of progress or freedom at its core. What it does have is self-interest, motivated by greed and profit.
One of the primary purposes of the Progress & Freedom Foundation is to take corporate control of the internet. Its first goal is described this way: "Deregulation of communications markets, including immediate deregulation of broadband services, and forbearance from regulation of wireless communications and the Internet."
The other anti-progress and anti-freedom goals are described here.
Supporters of The Progress & Freedom Foundation include -
Apple; AT&T; BellSouth; BMG; Business Software Alliance; Cellular Telecommunications & Internet Association; Cisco; Clear Channel Communications; Comcast Corporation; CompTIA; Disney; eBay; EchoStar Communications Corporation; Edison Electric Institute; EMI Group; FirstEnergy; Google; Hewlett-Packard Company; Howrey LLP; Intel; Intellectual Ventures; Intuit; Level 3 Communications; MCI; MGM; Microsoft; Motorola; National Cable & Telecommunications Association; NBC Universal; Nextel Communications; Nortel; Pinnacle West Capital Corporation; Progress Energy; QUALCOMM Incorporated; Qwest Communications; Sony Music Entertainment Inc.; Southern Company; Sprint; Sun Microsystems; Sybase, Inc.; Symantec Corporation; Telecommunications Industry Association; The News Corporation Limited; The SABRE Group; Time Warner; T-Mobile; VeriSign, Inc.; Verizon Communications; VIACOM; Visa USA; Vivendi; Winstar; Xcel Energy; XM Satellite Radio.
These corporations are not the friends of progress and freedom. They certainly are not the friends of a free and unfettered internet. They are voracious capitalist carnivores who see in the internet only one thing -- an enormous profit-center which they are working ceaselessly to own and operate. It would be progress for them if they were able take control freely of this huge potential.
In their own words, "For ten years, from the beginning of the Internet Revolution in 1993, through the high-tech meltdown of 2000-2002 and beyond, PFF has been a consistent voice for a market-oriented approach to capturing the opportunities presented by technological progress."
Reminiscent of many Politburo and KGB front organizations, they make up a name that represents the exact opposite of their strategy and purposes.
What PFF names itself and what it stands for is a classic example of Orwellian doublethink -- namely, holding two contradictory ideas in mind at the same time. In this case, PFF believes that its desire to dominate the internet is progress and will set us all free. Its compulsion, however, to own the internet is the irresistible force against which progress and freedom crash.
Orwell's Grave
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» RE: Stephen McArthur
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Stephen McArthur
Posted by: TheJamea
» Steve...
Posted by: starvinmarvy
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Posted by: alarm on Feb 7, 2006 5:49 AM
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"As an alternative to wireless companies that build infrastructure and charge for access, the Media Lab is studying "viral communications," in which every laptop or other wi-fi-enabled device would cooperate to relay data. In this "infrastructure-free" network, the system could have great resiliency, Reed says. If one route of information was blocked, other radios would form another trail to send along the data."
from the CSMonitor article 2004 edition
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0105/p13s02-wmgn.html
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» RE: Not a problem
Posted by: victoria2dc
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Posted by: Bearzerker44 on Feb 7, 2006 7:33 PM
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Don't you remember the Microsoft Lawsuit that conveniently went away after BushCo got elected...
Do we "not" currently have a monopoly operating system... worldwide...
Just like Santa Claws... they know if you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sakes... (you remember the rest of the song, hum it)
It's already happening, and has been underway for sometime.
The really scary thing is that the sheeple will probably not even notice that the corporate hustlers have been feeding the political machine for sometime with this "HUGE" pie there main goal. The digital age is upon us, the time of Telephone, TV & Radio Broadcasting are done, over... fin-ito... what happens after should be decided buy all of us, and not by the pigs and wolves that surround us...
We are the Sheeple; lead by Pigs and owned by Wolves
Buyer beware...
The Black hats are out there and I'm pretty sure "they" are the ones in power...
go to; CitizenLab to learn more... and for gods sake start using the FIREFOX web browser...
I leave you with a few "quotable quotes" from the immortal:
Lord Acton (1834-1902)
"The man who prefers his country before any other duty shows the same spirit as the man who surrenders every right to the state. They both deny that right is superior to authority. "
"The most certain test by which we judge whether a country is really free is the amount of security enjoyed by minorities."
"I exhort you never to debase the moral currency or to lower the standard of rectitude, but to try others by the final maxim that governs your own lives, and to suffer no man and no cause to escape the undying penalty which history has the power to inflict on wrong."
"Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end...liberty is the only object which benefits all alike, and provokes no sincere opposition...The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to to govern. Every class is unfit to govern...Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
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» RE: The "ENRON" Scandle of the Grafty Digital Domain
Posted by: TheJamea
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Posted by: victoria2dc on Feb 7, 2006 8:15 PM
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We better start a campaign, or it will be too late. As you know, the lobbying hasn't stopped just because Abramoff has pleaded. What are we going to do?
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Posted by: glorybe on Feb 8, 2006 9:02 PM
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Posted by: Roverton on Feb 8, 2006 11:34 PM
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Posted by: aedwards on Feb 9, 2006 7:08 AM
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These companies are regulating the internet and they will continue to do so as long as thier making money off of it. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. They have a business to run, I'm in no position to force my beliefs on them and wouldn't even if I was. I would however open my own ISP without the regulations these people use. If other people cared enough about the freedom on the internet my ISP would certainly become incredibly successful. That's the great thing about a free market, all contracts are mutually benificial to the parties involved.
We would really have a problem if the government is allowed to regulate what haoppens on the internet. We would have to watch everything we said, make sure it was all politically correct. It would cost a hell of a lot more too.
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» RE: Why worry?
Posted by: ngibson
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Posted by: ngibson on Feb 9, 2006 5:05 PM
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Anyone interested?
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Posted by: aedwards on Feb 10, 2006 8:21 AM
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These corperations are in it for the money. That is not a bad thing. It means that if there is a market for a completely open none regulated internet they will support it. Unlike the government these corperations care more about money then power. They don't care what you do with yourself. They will provide you with service as long as it remains profitable. They have no sadistic plan to take over the government or your life. They operate without any form of pregudious. What do they care who you are as long as you make them money? All you have to do is tell them what you want. You do this by paying for it.
Money is not the route of all evil. Money is a tool to be used to serve your interessts. Far better that the people in pursuit of money comtrol the internet then the people in pursuit of power.
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» RE: What are your priorities?
Posted by: Freedom84
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