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PopMatters / By Jodie Janella Horn
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'Strapped' for Adulthood

A new book explores the societal and financial reasons that today's twenty- and thirtysomethings are finding it nearly impossible to stay afloat.
January 3, 2006  |  
 
 
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I didn't need Tamara Draut to tell me that I'm strapped, but I did need her to tell my mom.

In the five years since I graduated from college, the same argument has arisen again and again. I insist that it's much harder to make a living now versus when she was my age in the mid-'70s. My mom disagrees, and continues to wonder why I haven't taken her advice and purchased a home. I inform her that a down payment on a condo in Los Angeles, where I live and work, would be greater than the sum total of all the money I've made this year. She again tells me the story of how she and my father saved the money for their first down payment while she was a drugstore clerk and he was an oft-unemployed electrical engineer. I tell her those days are over, at least in California, and she doesn't believe me. Repeat as necessary.

This ongoing fight with my mom had reached an all-time high recently because my husband and I have begun to panic about our future. Unless, somehow, we can genetically engineer offspring that needs neither food nor diapers, our hopes of being able to afford a child are not great. In addition to cash flow issues, my job does not provide paid maternity leave, and our insurance doesn't cover much, let alone pregnancy.

As a result of this stress, I have developed a recurring fantasy of taking President Bush, grabbing him by the hair and slamming his face on his desk repeatedly while screaming, "Family values? I'll show you family values. I'm moving to Canada so I can afford to have a family." Hell hath no fury like a lioness without cubs.

Since my mother and I both find the prospect of my moving back home nightmarish, I decided to end our "Standards of Living: Then and Now" debate once and for all. I sent her Strapped: Why America's 20- and 30-Somethings Can't Get Ahead, and guess what? It worked! Yes, the Strapped method of garnering parental support worked for me. I want to do infomercials for the book now. "Do your baby boomer parents wonder why all their success hasn't rubbed off on you? Do they ask you why they bothered to send you to college when you're un- or underemployed? Do they think you're paying more than half your paycheck in rent just because you're decadent? Then this book is for you!"

Draut lays it out like a pro without indulging the whininess that so often creeps into my voice when I try to convey my generation's situation to my mother. The problems for us youngsters are as follows: College is expensive and induces debt, paychecks aren't rising with the cost of living, rent and home prices are prohibitively high, starting a family is costly, and finally, We Are All In Debt (sing it to the tune of Weezer's "We Are All on Drugs" if it'll make you feel better).

Furthermore, young people have lost faith in politics and government as a mechanism for enacting real change in our lives, and aren't protesting or voting at the rates that our parents did. The problems affecting the young are far greater for people coming from low-income families. Even public and community colleges are vastly more expensive than they were for my parents' generation, so many kids have to work full- or part-time to float their tuition.

However, all that working gets in the way of studying, and many students get caught in the trap: They need more money, so they work more hours and take fewer classes, and eventually they no longer have time for school. If students do finally finish school, most are wracked with inhibiting student loan payments.

Couple that with an economy that is increasingly punishing to individuals without college degrees, and you've got a problem. The median income, adjusted to 2002 dollars, for a male with a high school diploma has fallen from $42,630 in 1972 to $29,647 in 2002.

In addition to the student loan debt most of us acquire, we also have credit card debt. Draut points out that conventional wisdom says that young people "are wildly decadent about their spending," but her interviews with young people across the country uncovered that credit card debt was usually acquired fixing cars and traveling home for holidays and weddings. Additionally, credit cards bear the costs of setting up an apartment and acquiring a professional wardrobe.

The use of credit cards might not be so damning to young people were it not the untamed political lobbying cash cow that is the credit industry. There is little federal regulation of the fees and interest rates that credit cards can charge, making borrowing a complicated game that leaves many people screwed when it comes time to purchase their first home.

Perhaps the most pressing dilemma that Draut presents is that of the high cost of starting a family. While federal law stipulates that new parents can take up to three months off from their job, it does not require that time to be paid. As a result, only 36 percent of women and 33 percent of men take parental leave.

Now that the standard for families is two working parents, child care is a pressing concern with no easy way out. As Draut says, "When the cost of child care is prohibitively high, it may make sense on paper for one parent -- usually it's the mother -- to stay home."

At this point in my life, it makes sense for me to find a career that allows me to also stay at home to raise children or that pays well enough to afford quality child care, but these are lofty goals, and my options are limited.

My mom actually took notes while reading. Her best notation? "Book premise -- harder and more costly to become an adult." Now that my mother is in tune with the pressing issues facing young people trying to become a full-fledged adult with a spouse, a home, a car, and a job, there's no reason why the young people affected can't become more aware and heed Draut's call to political arms.

Unless you want to a future of greater economic stratification and tyranny of debt collectors, read the book, pass it around, and start drafting some letters to politicians.
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Not just 20 or 30 somethings...
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Posted by: Madam Hatter on Jan 3, 2006 12:41 AM   
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I'm in my mid 40s and have had the same conversations with my father. Athough life started out well in my 20s, a divorce and the dot com crash devasted my finances and I haven't recovered since. Dad harps on me about saving for my retirement, but I have trouble even paying the rent some months!

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» RE: Not just 20 or 30 somethings... Posted by: monkeywrench
» RE: Not just 20 or 30 somethings... Posted by: liberalibrarian

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AndyF
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Posted by: AndyF on Jan 3, 2006 4:31 AM   
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Oh come on. Please start to look closely at your expenses and separate needs from wants and start to cut back on the wants. If given the type of work you do, you cannot afford to live the type of life you aspire to in LA move or modify your expectations. Instead of credit cards for clothes, go to the consignment shop, second hand store or just buy less. If you need to borrow money to go home for a visit or go to a wedding - don't go. I sound like an old man here, but it works.

Also recognize how expectations have changed. If you're looking to live a 1960's style single income life, do it like most people did in the 1960's - < 2,000sqft single bath house, no cable TV, no cell phone, one car (not a luxo SUV or fancy car, but something basic like a Toyota Corolla), no broad band internet connection, eat at home except for special occasions, simple vacations (I remember well the every other year trips to see my grandparents - 1,000 mile drive with a packed cooler so that we didn't have to eat out), maybe one or two paid activities for the kids rather than a half dozen, no media rooms or home theatres with their attendant libraries of DVDs and CDs - use the library instead... The list could go on for a long time, but the point remains the same; the article here is yet another variation on the "I want it all now" theme.

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» RE: AndyF Posted by: Lizka
» RE: AndyF Posted by: sethx9
» Do I owe anyone an apology? Posted by: sethx9
» RE: Do I owe anyone an apology? Posted by: tabaumann
» RE: Seth, give it up Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: Seth, give it up Posted by: crusty
» RE: Seth, give it up Posted by: sethx9
» RE: Seth, give it up Posted by: sethx9
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housing in LA
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Posted by: menckenman on Jan 3, 2006 5:05 AM   
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You can cut back all you want, you still can't afford to buy a condo or house in LA, and all your rent is money thrown away, building no equity or collateral.

You can cut back, but you still have to drive to work and pay double the price for gas.

And where are all those great jobs after college? Gone to India.

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» RE: housing in LA Posted by: dankorn
» RE: housing in LA Posted by: monkeywrench
» RE: housing in LA Posted by: YogiBear

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Get to the hard-ball version
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Posted by: J. Walter Plinge on Jan 3, 2006 5:05 AM   
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RE: "Strapped"

If your review of the book is accurate Tamara Draut's version of reality is a good start but it's just a softball version of the real thing. The reality is that the money system is doing just exactly what it was designed to do: pump wealth from laborers into the hands of those who control the system.

Not many people are interested in this topic so I'll just suggest a few sites to look at.


Turbo Slavery: Money, Debt And Reality
http://www.frugalfun.com/slavery.shtml

Everything Changed in 1971
http://ebean390.tripod.com/walt1971.html

BOOK: Luttwak, Edward, Turbo-capitalism : winners and losers in the global economy.

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» RE: Kleptocracy does not require money Posted by: J. Walter Plinge

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"I'm moving to Canada so I can afford to have a family."
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Posted by: LMNOP on Jan 3, 2006 5:12 AM   
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"I'm moving to Canada so I can afford to have a family."

Why would anyone that didn't need to choose to hang around this shit hole for a day longer than necessary? The only thing America had to offer Americans was a higher than average standard of living, and now the Republicans have stolen that.

Really, why else would you want to be an American? This is an intellectual and spiritual wasteland, and you pay a very high price to participate. It wasn't much of a deal when all it offered was wealth, and now, it can't provide that for anyone who is not a celebrity or a criminal.

Does this offend you? Then go back to your drudgery, credit card debt and Fox News. You deserve no better. If you are still proud of America, then you have been in a coma for too long and you are part of the problem.

I pledge allegiance only to that which demonstrates allegiance to me. This includes my friends and family, but not my government or country.

Sorry. It's just that my Uncle Sam has molested me for too long now, and I not only don't love him any more, I don't want to be around him.

To those of you who think that you can correct this mess, good luck. But for those like me who consider America to be a failed experiment and a cesspool of the human spirit, it's perfectly OK to give up on it and seek greener pastures where you will enjoy more freedoms, a higher standard of living and not have to be ashamed of your people or your government. It's time for a lot of us to cut the cord.

Patriotism is another form of zealotry in America, and I've been completely cured of it nor just by the Bushistas, but also by the tens of millions of Stepford citizens that voted for him and still support him, most of them superstitious, violent, ignorant and selfish. It's time for many of us to cut the cord to the motherland. Not all problems can be fixed.

One huge advantage of leaving this polity is withdrawing your tax support for it. No more of your hard earned dollars need to go to maim Iraqi civilians or to pad Cheney's stock portfolio.

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» RE: My sister moved to India and has a better life Posted by: anonymous black writer
» RE: Hanging around this shit hole Posted by: Kevin R. Hoskins
» Baloney! Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Baloney! Posted by: owleyes

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War declared not on Irak but on hard working americans
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Posted by: ng1944 on Jan 3, 2006 5:35 AM   
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War declared on hard working americans by corporations
and all these corporate spitlickers that are in power.
Irak mostly for diversion.

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OH, I'm just AVERAGE!
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Posted by: jalicki2 on Jan 3, 2006 5:53 AM   
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Oh my God, I'm a shining example of the people described in this article! I'm a single, white, university educated male, age 36. I don't own a home, can barely pay my rent, and I'm drowning in student loan debt after attending college for 6.5 years. (How many "economic hardship" loan deferments will Sallie Mae give you anyway? I'll let you know.) My wants and needs are in balance, as I've convinced myself that I'm living a very enviro-conscious lifestyle - "living simply so that others may simply live." I grow my own vegetables. Frugality is a constant state of being. I had to live at my parents place for almost 20 months back in 2000-02 because I was unemployed. Now, everything I own fits in the back of my seven year old pick-up truck (although I did buy a recliner last year). I sure would like to have kids someday, but that seems like a very, very distant dream. I don't have health insurance, and I just used the last of my 401K money to fix my truck. I no longer have any savings. My mother just sighs when she looks at me, then quietly goes to church and prays that my life will improve. I seem to be a huge disappointment, as my much older sisters are both college professors and there is a perception that I should be doing something similar. Sometimes Mom asks me to go to church with her so that I can meet a "nice girl" and find my way in the world. THANK YOU, now I get to tell her that I'm NOT a complete loser, just AVERAGE. I think I may actually take the returnables back to the store today so that I have the cash to buy this book. On the way to the bookstore I will sing the song from the puppet-sex movie 'America: World Police.' It goes likes this... "America, F*CK YEAH!"

Jerome Alicki
blackbearspeaks.blogspot.com

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» RE: OH, I'm just AVERAGE! Posted by: pixiequix
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» RE: OH, I'm just AVERAGE! Posted by: gerbear
» RE: OH, I'm just AVERAGE! Posted by: jalicki2

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A bit of truth in all
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Posted by: anothername on Jan 3, 2006 5:55 AM   
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Yes, this new economic order is hard on people of all ages. Yes, many people can reduce their costs of living by cutting out non-essential items. Yes, people can become ex-patriots. I used to move every few years to explore a new part of the country or planet. I no longer can afford to do that because of all the rules and regulations that have been enacted by both Democrats and Republicans in Congress using "security" and "job protection" and "safety" as buzzwords. I used to be able to move to a new city and have a job the next day, but now I have to show so much documentation it is difficult. I used to be able to get a driver's license with my identity, but one state told me that if I wanted to keep using my middle name instead of being known by my first name I would have to spend hundreds of dollars for a name change; now I cannot even cash a check off of my own bank account because I refused to pay the money because I did not think it fair or affordable. I used to be able to find an apartment easily and live in it month-to-month. Now I have to show so much documentation and wait so long for even the least expensive apartment that all I can afford to do is live in higher priced hotels until the process works itself out. Heck, I was in California for a few months and tried to rent an apartment. I couldn't because one of the major property owners insisted upon either a California driver's license or a passport. Since I am a US citizen I did not have a passport with me and since I was not moving to California, I did not want to go to the expense and hassle of a driver's license. Yes, it is more costly to live these days. Yes, people can try to cut back on costs, but when business and government insist that we spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to do what we used to expect for no out-of-pocket expense, we are limiting our individual growth and options.

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» RE: A bit of truth in all Posted by: drone
» RE: A bit of truth in all Posted by: liberalibrarian

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No wonder these lousy politicians distract the voters
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Posted by: maxpayne on Jan 3, 2006 6:19 AM   
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by calling these youngsters "MTV voters" every time during the election. The article sure exposes the real oppression youngsters are facing but you'll rarely hear either party address these issues much less solve them. Well, they'll "solve" them by putting out flames with gasoline. Note the quotes around solve means they won't really solve it but define the word to their liking to make it feel like creating more problems is a good thing.

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While you're at it...
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Posted by: guess on Jan 3, 2006 6:23 AM   
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"...I have developed a recurring fantasy of taking President Bush, grabbing him by the hair and slamming his face on his desk repeatedly while screaming, "Family values? I'll show you family values."

Give Chimpy a few face slams for me,would ya. Thanks.

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» RE: While you're at it... Posted by: drone

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it's not just the 20, 30 somethings that are economically strapped
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Posted by: roxanna juanita on Jan 3, 2006 7:48 AM   
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After 13 years of marriage, with three children in tow, I divorced my husband 12 years ago. This past May, after 10 years of study, working and keeping a roof over our heads, I finally finished my Bachelors degree with a huge debt. At 47 years old, and three decades in the workforce working minimum or slightly above minimum wage jobs, I am now in an "entry level" position, earning just a little more than $24,000 per year. My rent is $900 per month for a two bedroom townhouse. My youngest child still lives with me and turns 18 in a month, at which time her father will no longer have to pay me the $500 per month in child support that currently at least pays half our rent. The prospect of graduate school is enticing, but another 20, 30 or 40 thousand in debt certainly isn't. Will I EVER be able to afford a home of my own? Will I EVER pay off my student loan debt? What kind of retirement can I look forward to? I'm an intelligent and talented woman, I've got to believe that it'll all work out, but it's frightening sometimes to think that with no savings, I could easily find myself on the streets. I don't mean to whine here, but for Pete's sake, it's not right that we work 40 or 50 hours per week at jobs that are physically and emotionally draining, and still can't make ends meet.

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Forget age groups,WE'RE ALL HURTING
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Jan 3, 2006 7:52 AM   
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Unless you're lucky enough to live in what's considered 'Upper Income'. The Govt says only 1% have incomes above $100,000,000/year,and funny enough that's where most of the wealth stays. Meanwhile 80,000,000 People are 'forced' to live in low-income to keep the money flowing upwards and away from where it's really needed.Why? GREED. How can I say that? Simlpe. When I was a kid upper level middle income was around $25.000/yr.
Single income,three kids and ALL THE BILLS PAID,unless of course you're bad with money. In today's America you'd have to make better than $250,000/yr to be lower to mid level
Middle Income,live in a city of 100,000 with family and the bills paid. If it's a small town like NYC add $100,000/yr.
This is the kind of inequity the P.O.T. Party wants to set to right. The very wealthy have been sucking the poor dry since Kennedy got rid of the 91% tax bracket for the rich. The Country can no longer support the running of the People into the ground for the betterment of a few misguided,greed absorbed,control freaks. Bring the money back into the hands of the People with P.O.T.

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johnjord
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Posted by: johnjord on Jan 3, 2006 8:01 AM   
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I know that the old adage that without college you can't get anywhere is more true now than ever. But there is an alternative way of making a living. It's called a trade. Funny I am as well off or better off than many of my peers who went to college. I went staight into a trade out of High School, had two kids, now grown who also did not go to college, one is a police officer who with his wife, who also did not go to college made abouty 100,000.00 last year, good money in Houston, my other son is in oilfield and petrochemical repair and rebuild and he, his wife does not work made about 80,000.00 last year. I am a union Plumber, construction work mostly, I don't have a butt crack that shows either. I have since gone on to work as a city inspection supervisor, most of my plumber peers make on average 60,000.00 a year and up depending on whether they are supervisory, estimators, or work in the field as instalation mechanics. My point is that if you are willing to work hard, and I mean manually, a very good living can be made in the trades, electrical, plumbing, air conditioning, carpentry, brick laying, glass installers and glazing, concrete work, drywall, and on and on. Union apprenticeships last on average 3 to 5 years and require that you attend classes in practical and theory of the trades, you have some textbooks, and you make less while you are an apprentice but they don't require student loans and they are portable jobs, you can work just about anywhere. It's not the most glamorous career, and it has it's ups and downs also, but sometimes this idea that a college education is the only way is only perpetuated by those who went to college. All of us have seen examples of high school graduates teaching college graduates how to do a job so they can go on and do the same job the high school graduate has been doing and make more money, what's with this, I think it's bull myself, I am currently attending online classes for an associate degree, but only because I want to, It won't earn me any more money or make any difference in what I do for a living. And for heaven's sake move out of those expensive areas, they may pay more but everything cost more. You can still buy a 2400 sq. foot house in the houston area for less than 200,000.00 and we are the 4th largest city in the nation, if you can't get a job here you can't get a job anywhere! There are other ways to make a good living.
johnjord

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I hate baby boomers
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Posted by: IronNose on Jan 3, 2006 8:44 AM   
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Because of the luck of historical circumstances they grew up in a world of almost limitless opportunities and they've accumulated massive amounts of wealth. Now that they've made it to the top of the ladder however, they seem to be pulling the ladder up behind them, leaving following generations a world of diminished expectations. For the most part, boomers will retire comfortably, with their disgustingly smug, self-satisfied attitudes and little empathy for younger people who struggle with anxiety and insecurity about the future. Boomers make me sick and they completely sold this country out to rapacious coporate interests. And on top of it all, now they are whining about their need to keep their f-ing tax cut. Thanks for nothing you disgusting pigs.

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Money's Tight
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Posted by: Artkansas on Jan 3, 2006 9:04 AM   
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I hope those that give out the old palative that we just need to economize more to be successful will open their eyes.

It's not always that easy.

Several years ago I did an income/inflation inventory. I discovered that despite getting a degree and 25 years of experience and continued study in a high-tech field, I was paid in real terms about what I made in my first minimum wage job after high school.

While I don't buy clothes at Goodwill, I economize everywhere I can. I have a small apartment, I bicycle to work and pack my own lunches. It's not a libertine lifestyle.

Houses are a great investment. The down payment on a house in the last neighborhood I lived in would be about a year's salary. I remember in the early '60s. My father had a nice house in a great neighborhood. The whole thing cost about a year's salary for him. I've seen neighborhoods where population growth is 5% annually but the rise in cost of real estate is 33%. Maybe it's just me, but that seems a bit skewed.

But there have been times when I've had to pay rent with a credit card because I had been out of work for nearly a year. Then I had to pay all the moving expenses to move to a different state to get the job.

The point is that even economizing, there are times when expenses exceed income, and that it IS tougher to live now than in the past.

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» RE: Money's Tight Posted by: monkeywrench

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Money makes me head hurt.
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Posted by: bettsoff on Jan 3, 2006 9:11 AM   
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It's not that I'm sinking, it's that I'm just not getting anywhere. Rent is outrageous. Housing prices are worse. I get paid a good bit but half of it goes towards non-elastic costs. I can only imagine the dough I'd be rolling in if real wages had risen with inflation the way they supposedly used to. Yeah, I have loans, I have a balance on my card, but it's nothing compared to the price I pay for the privelege of having a roof over my head. If my salary were raised by a third (probably a conservative guess of what it SHOULD be adjusted for inflation) or my rent cut in half, I could pay off my debt in 3 years and have a good start on a downpayment. As it is, I thank Eris I have health insurance and my car is paid off and running well.

I'll never get ahead like this. I don't have one piece of furniture that cost more than $40. My clothes come from outlets, close-outs, and goodwill. I don't have cable. My electronics are all at least 6 years old and my clock-radio I've had since I was 8. When I take vacations, I camp. It's cheap. And the point is not even that I want expensive furniture--my furniture is ugly but in fine shape, thanks--it's that I don't want to have to worry about retirement or doctor bills or oh-god-please don't-let-the-car-break-down this month. And right now the cost of living and the hassle and complications built into navigating the money system make that impossible. God help anyone who wants kids (I don't.).

I have a plan, of course (don't we all?). I need to get the hell out of my current area and into somewhere more rural. It's likely I won't find a job in my field at first but Camp Happy Jesus knows I'm not afraid of work. The whole system sucks. Even as I tuck money into 401(k) I wonder if I'll ever see it again.

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» RE: Money makes me head hurt. Posted by: lionhead
» RE: Money makes me head hurt. Posted by: bettsoff
» P.S. Posted by: bettsoff

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I am mystified
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Posted by: NthnBrazil on Jan 3, 2006 9:50 AM   
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I can't relate to a lot of the hyperbole here, but I will open myself up a bit because I am really curious as to what I am doing right or getting more than others. I make approx. $100K working in NYC and live in a NJ suburb about an hour commute by bus. I have a wife who is a stay at home mom with a 3 yr old son, a $200K mortgage, two 2003 model year cars, about $10K in credit cards at 0% interest and 2 student loans to pay off (my wife's & mine). Admittedly my student loan is very low due to having gotten some scholarship money but I can't imagine that is the difference between me and the folks ranting on here. Everything I read tells me that $100K in NYC is like the lower middle, so it's not like I make a fortune. Our parents haven't really given us much money to get started (they don't have much). We got the down payment for our house mostly from our wedding presents and some other money we saved up, but it wasn't much (less than $15K). Nowadays with interest only mortgages you could probably do even better by buying and flipping in 3 years getting equity out of the appreciation of the house.

So what am I missing? Why is it easier for me?

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» RE: I am mystified Posted by: lionhead
» RE: I am mystified Posted by: NthnBrazil
» RE: I am mystified Posted by: owleyes
» RE: I am mystified Posted by: NthnBrazil
» RE: I am mystified Posted by: owleyes
» RE: I am mystified Posted by: NthnBrazil
» RE: I am mystified Posted by: owleyes
» RE: I am mystified Posted by: NthnBrazil
» RE: I am mystified Posted by: owleyes
» RE: I am mystified Posted by: NthnBrazil
» RE: I am mystified Posted by: kelly.nickell
» RE: I am mystified Posted by: ecoMamaNY
» RE: I am mystified Posted by: bigfoot
» RE: I am mystified Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: I am mystified Posted by: NthnBrazil
» RE: I am mystified Posted by: owleyes
» RE: I am mystified Posted by: NthnBrazil
» RE: I am mystified Posted by: terihu
» RE: I am mystified Posted by: owleyes
» RE: I am mystified Posted by: weGotCactus
» RE: I am mystified Posted by: NthnBrazil
» RE: I am mystified Posted by: gerbear

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clinker
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Posted by: cottontail on Jan 3, 2006 10:11 AM   
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The U.S. is slowly but surely becoming a Banana Republic, so plan accordingly, if you can. The military is getting bigger, which will be needed to keep order when the semi-comatose wake up and start to rebel. If the fact that 50% of Republicans are fundamentalists doesn't scare hell out of you, you're brain-dead. Thankfully, most of the idiots who supported and still support the doofus in the White House will
suffer along with the rest of us when times really get tough.
They say young people don't vote. If that's true they will soon rue the day.

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» RE: clinker Posted by: lurbankohler
» RE: clinker Posted by: redjenny

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Don't give in to the Bullies
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Posted by: laura153 on Jan 3, 2006 10:13 AM   
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I have the same story as everyone above. Five years out of college, lots of student loan debt. Good job, low pay. Live in LA, can't afford to live. Blah, blah, blah. I think just about everyone reading this article has a similar story. What I 'm not hearing, though, is anyone taking responsibility. I'll be the first to admit that racking up $20,000 in credit card debt when I was unemployed for a year and a half was a BAD idea. Even though it was for things like gas, groceries, electric bills, etc. And even though all those companies that I leaned on to provide me the credit to make those purchases are making an absolute fortune off the interest and fees they're charging me, I’m done whining about it.

Yes, the system sucks. Yes, they’re horrible, immoral people. But, seriously, what’s the point in continuing to be the victim of the big bad credit card industry? Join Debtor’s Anonymous, enroll in Consumer Credit Counseling, or just call your creditors yourself and work out a different payment plan. You can ask for a debt moratorium to take the pressure off for a few months. And here’s a news flash: You don’t really have to pay those minimum payments they’ve brainwashed you to think you have to pay. Tell them what you can pay, and make them accept it.

What is it they say about bullies? They back down in the face of anyone who stands up for her/himself.

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Real Estate Markets
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Posted by: dagoski on Jan 3, 2006 11:02 AM   
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A lot of folks have posted here that the writer should move out of LA. Well, there's a small problem with that. With the exception of a small number of vibrant metropolitan areas in the US, the job market is quite tough. This even holds true for people with scientific degrees and a portfolio of technical skills like myself. If you want a good job in the new economy sectors like IT then your best bets are metro areas like Boston, LA, San Francisco, Seattle, and maybe New York. So moving out of LA is not always an option. One of the problems with housing in America right now is that the prices are out of reach in all the places that you'd want to live. The places that are culturally isolated, economically depressed, and just flat out nasty are great bargains. But a place with a future? That's tough.

With regard to forgoing DVDs and all that, let me point out that with education, healthcare, decent housing and the rest becoming unobtainable, at least we can console ourselves with cheap consumer goods. Of course, cheap consumer goods and the hidden costs therin contribute to the lack of meaningful work for twenty and thirty somethings.

Also, raise your hands here: How many people in the twenty to thirty something are getting master's degrees not because they're consumed by a passion for whatever they're studying, but rather in order to get a reasonably good job?

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» RE: eal Estate Markets Posted by: owleyes

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Actually, Mom and I Have This in Common...
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Posted by: saramarie on Jan 3, 2006 11:19 AM   
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I work at just barely over the minimum wage (in NY state, at least, where the min. just went up to $6.75... the wage I was just making, so I'd better get a raise!) to pay my rent, sky-high energy bills, and college expenses that my loans wouldn't cover. I started out working full-time and going for 16 credits, but by November, I cut down to 24 hours a week and 13 credits. My grades were undoubtably better than when Mommy and Daddy first put in college before I dropped out, but damn, it was tough.

My mother, on the other hand, was never lucky enough for her parents to have helped her get through college at all. She worked double-shifts at a restaurant just to get enough hours in to pay her bills while attending a community college. Oh yeah, and she came from a middle class family. They just couldn't afford to put three children through college and support her youngest sister.

At least when Mom went to college, her loan paid for everything and then some. My Stafford loan won't even cover all of my SUNY college's tuition, and that's before fees and all that other crap. It is worth it, though. The only other choice is working minimum wage for the rest of your life, stuck with employers who break the laws and take advantage of you, and customers who treat you like an idiot. I wouldn't take it any longer than I have to!

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Holy shit 100K?
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Posted by: bettsoff on Jan 3, 2006 11:21 AM   
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Yeah, where I come from you'd have to fuck up bad to not be able to live on that much. I do understand, however, that the cost of living means you're so not so high on the hog as it appears at first blush. Hell, I make 36, which in my hometown would put me dead center but around here (Morris County, not so far from you) makes me pretty damn poor for a college educated kid.

Congrats on your success, I hope you keep the ball rolling, but really you couldn't pay me enough to live in NJ for any longer than I absolutely have to--and working in the city? Ack! Much rather I'd live in a small place, making less and wanting less, and having to deal with fewer people and cars. We make our choices. Good luck.

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A different perspective
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Posted by: ConnecttheDots on Jan 3, 2006 11:31 AM   
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While author Jodie Horn made a good case for economic hardship, she either ignored or simply overlooked a big part of the problem -- perhaps the crux of the problem -- that forces ever-growing numbers of people into dire economic straights, i.e., too many people having too many children. More people competing for limited resources drive up prices, but this in no way excuses exploitation of the poor by the wealthy.

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» RE: A different perspective Posted by: ConnecttheDots

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Strapped
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Posted by: DrgonzoSB on Jan 3, 2006 11:54 AM   
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The author is partly right, and the gentleman who counseled her to curb her needs and wants is also partly right, and some of the other posters are too. This is a complex issue, deeply rooted in the corporate takeover of this country, the demise of unions and worker power, and the outsourcing of jobs to lower-wage countries. We are told to spend, consume and buy at every turn, 24/7, by a sophisticated industry, and yet most of us are now underemployed, poorly paid, and without any company or publicly-funded safety nets. The more we try to keep up, the deeper we get stuck -- and there's no way out. No wonder Vegas is so popular, state lotteries, and poker -- for the vast majority the only road to wealth are games of chance. The Right's Rx does not work for the majority of us, but we are too cowed to get angry, and too disorganized to fight back and demand recourse...

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» RE: Strapped Posted by: drone

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livingthelife
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Posted by: livingthelife on Jan 3, 2006 12:56 PM   
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Sorry, love, but it's going to take a lot more than "writing letters to politicians" to change things. They are all crooks. If everyone would stop buying things, the whole system would grind to a halt. Boycott is the only power the people have left.

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livingthelife
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Posted by: livingthelife on Jan 3, 2006 1:30 PM   
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Here´s how the writer can make her dreams of a family come true: get on the Internet (while there still is one), find the cheapest rent in the US (try Corpus Christi, TX, Bellingham, WA, St. Louis, MO, for example) and move there. Find something you can do on the Internet to support yourself, such as freelance writing, translation, or selling something. Supplement your Internet income with a local job if necessary. The "haves" have been screwing the "have nots" for millennia and that's why we get packin' -- always have, always will. Good luck. (A two-bedroom costs $450 a month in Corpus Christi and the scenery and barbecue are great. Not all Texans are Bush supporters.)

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Stop the waste
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Posted by: greekTowner on Jan 3, 2006 1:45 PM   
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Stop buying crap you do not need and stop worrying about owning a house. That's an overrated dream.

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» RE: Stop the waste Posted by: drone

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Related Stories on Alternet
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Posted by: LMNOP on Jan 3, 2006 2:16 PM   
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See The Mugging of the American Dream, The Young And The Debtless, and Burying College Grads in Debt for more of the same on the loss of economic opportunity for younger Americans.

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Hold the Kids....
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Posted by: Fawkes13 on Jan 3, 2006 2:32 PM   
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I have a great life, some debt, I own my own home and make about 45K a year. I see myself enjoying myself as much as I do now- going out to eat, international travel, movies, Manhattan nightlife once in a while, etc. But only if I NEVER have kids. I agree with the author- what kind of 'family values' make it basically impossible to afford children?

Fortunately, I don't want any. I feel really bad for all my friends who are having kids (especially the two single moms!!) I would think they are going to have really difficult lives for the next few years. That's their choice. We do still have that choice left at least(until the family values crowd abolishes it). Basically it seems like people have to make the decision to live a nicer lifestyle (and use more resources) OR have children (which use more resources). That seems sad, but there are plenty of people in the world already, no? It's either you, or your kids. I pick me.

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» RE: Hold the Kids.... Posted by: mwildfire
» RE: Hold the Kids.... Posted by: drone

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I probably can't live long enough to pay off my student loans
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Posted by: deha on Jan 3, 2006 2:39 PM   
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barring some kind of "live forever" breakthrough in medical technology. ((smile))

Since I started college so late in life (age 35), I probably won't increase my lifetime earnings by enough to cover the cost of my education. My choice of profession, though satisfying, isn't particularly remunerative, either.

But, hey. That's OK. Earning more money isn't necessarily the best reason for going to college. I'm an educated person, by anyone's standards, and that's really what college is all about, right?

Maybe I will never have the same financial and retirement possibilities as my parents (I'm a very late boomer). In my 20's I discovered that the more profitable but often soul-sucking occupations were not for me. I've had some time to come to terms with that, but the inequities in our economic system still make me fighting mad. I don't expect to be able to retire.

As the song says, I hope I die before I get old.

But in the meantime, I'll take what I can get. In my new career as a teacher, I believe I can do some good in the world. And the intellectual doors that were opened to me in college will remain of value to me forever. I'm opening those doors for my grandchildren now, and I hope for better days for them.

Yeah, I'm an idealist. Or a fatalist. Maybe more of a Marxist, even. So sue me. But I'm warning you, I'm flat broke.

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Life in the 20 something reality......
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Posted by: Ms. Clear on Jan 3, 2006 2:47 PM   
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My hubby and I can really relate to this article. I'll be sure to pick up a copy of that book.

As a 20-something, I can say that reality really does suck. LOL. Play by the rules, go to college, wind up underemployed. It happened to me and the hubby and not for lack of trying for something better.

It's really worked out much better for us than for many though. I am grateful for that. We have health insurance, a place to live and are able to save money. Will we ever be able to buy a house ? I don't know. I'm certainly not willing to take out some financially unsound mortgage. I'd rather rent and save.

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Hay, poverty is relative
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Posted by: IanA on Jan 3, 2006 3:49 PM   
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Good article and interesting comments, and except for a few notable exceptions they all point to the problem of a “me” society and an inordinate degree of competition in your society. My problem is bigger or my solution is the right one. I’m struck by how easily you blame the next guy, who some believe is spending too much or others think is not working hard enough or dirty enough. Hay, poverty is relative.

But mostly you have the same problems, higher educated or trained work force with reduced job opportunities, a property/real estate bubble (probably sustained by lenders and refinancing rather than real demand) and a treadmill existence between expectations, credit/debt, virtually no capacity to save and high stress levels, all lead by demand dominated employment corporate economy, compounded by a totally materialist view of your existence.

But you have been conditioned to see things as a jungle and see everyone as a competitor. You see earnings as the real difference between people. You may work hard to get 50 k a year, which makes you feel superior to your kids teacher who makes 35 k or a nurse taking home 30 k. Or, is their low wage their fault?

None would suggest that they should earn less so that the other can have a reasonable income, but that you should all have a right to a reasonable standard of living and reasonable economic security. So, as a society if you cannot figure it out for yourselves, as the richest economy on the planet, I really doubt your countries qualification in leadership for the future of the economic improvement of that third of the global population surviving on a dollar or less a day. Oh, I forgot, you earned it and deserve it. Right.

How about the words; Cooperation instead of competition, get together, organize, look at your fellows with compassion instead of blame. If you don’t like Wal-Mart, start a cooperative. If you want higher wages you’ll need to be organized. The corporations are and it’s not to pay you more unless you own them.

And while your at it can't you find a better use for your money rather than subsidizing, to the tune of a few trillion through your taxes, the terrorism of the rest of the world by your government and military, all on the excuse of a fictitious war.

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» RE: Hay, poverty is relative Posted by: mwildfire

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W00t
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Posted by: Llama11 on Jan 3, 2006 3:55 PM   
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Thanks Republicans, you just got my student loan opportunities in half. Now I'm in a grind. I don't have any money, I can't get enough loans to pay for school, and I don't what the hell I'm going to do. Nevermind I don't know what to do with an English degree anyway, I don't know if I'll even be able to get it. And then law school... to try and somehow change the system from within? More likely I'll become part of the system. Admittedly, I get lots of help since I'm mostly indigenous to North America, but even now, I can't seem to get that free education everyone says I get. Damn.

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W00t
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Posted by: Llama11 on Jan 3, 2006 3:55 PM   
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Thanks Republicans, you just got my student loan opportunities in half. Now I'm in a grind. I don't have any money, I can't get enough loans to pay for school, and I don't what the hell I'm going to do. Nevermind I don't know what to do with an English degree anyway, I don't know if I'll even be able to get it. And then law school... to try and somehow change the system from within? More likely I'll become part of the system. Admittedly, I get lots of help since I'm mostly indigenous to North America, but even now, I can't seem to get that free education everyone says I get. Damn.

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thankful
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Posted by: abbie on Jan 3, 2006 4:23 PM   
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I'm sitting in the UK reading this, and I have never been more thankful in my life.
Like most of the posters here, my family has to economise. My husband's career frankly sucks and I 'caught' ME just before getting my degree leaving me unable to work. Our clothes are discount or 2nd hand, we have no car, and my 6 year old son has never been on a non-camping, non-family visiting holiday.

BUT

We don't have to worry about rent (council flat, which is clean, bright, safe, warm and cheap - free for those who are old, out of work, or sick)

Our medical and dental needs are taken care of for free. (and we have needed a LOT. Our son had serious heart problems and spent 4 months in intensive care as a baby. I go cold even thinking about what would have happened of we'd had to find the money ourselves)

We (and every other family in the country) get child benefit. It isn't a lot, but pays for at least 1 weeks worth of food every month

We have student loans, but can defer indefinitely until we make a good living wage.

Best of all, instead of tax cuts for the wealthy, we have tax credits for families and disabled people which top up the (still tragically low) minimum wage until it is enough to support our family of 3. Our tax credit payment is substantially greater than the amount we pay in income tax.

It's not all rosy. House prices are obscene (and a source of obscene glee for our 'boomer' generation). Rent payments are even worse (most of our friends pay about 2 thirds of their salary to 'property investor' slumlords). Most jobs are low-level service industry - and they do require a degree for entry.

But when I compare our situation to the sheer grinding poverty and desperation a family like ours would be experiencing in the US, it almost makes me wish I had a deity to thank. I am a sick, former teenage mother with a formerly very sick child and a husband who makes minimum wage, and we have no debt, no looming financial catastrophe with the potential to ruin our lives, and our standard of living seems to be equal to that of most single young professionals posting here.

That's just wrong.

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» RE: thankful Posted by: bettsoff
» myalgic encephalomyelitis Posted by: Kneel
» RE: myalgic encephalomyelitis Posted by: bettsoff
» RE: thankful//nothing is free Posted by: nevermind

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Moving out is great, but...
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Posted by: Webimpulse on Jan 3, 2006 4:23 PM   
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First, I do apologize for making an entirely new comment thread instead of responding inside the thread this is directed at, but I didn't want my comment to get lost inside the pile of responses. The thread I'm responding to is "I'm moving to Canada so I can afford to have a family."

I do agree that moving out of this hellhole is a good option, especially for people like me. Each day I live here I find my will to live weakening. All this guilt by association - justified guilt, thanks to our tax dollars - is driving me to the point of suicide. I was moved to a respite home temporariliy after the travesty of Bush winning the popular vote in the '04 elections so I wouldn't hurt myself. I ended up actually hurting myself recently when I learned of the usage of chemical weapons in Iraq, like Fallujah, by taking a knife and leaving plenty of ugly red papercut-like scabs on both my arms. Living here, where I know I am responsible for all the atrocities in the world, is driving me to madness - I'm only 22 and already I want my life to end.

But to those who say I should move out, well, I got a good question for you. How? Moving to another country requires money. Lots of money. How am I supposed to come up with the money to cover basic airfare of a one-way ticket to another country? To get myself a decent permanent residence in said other country? To live in said residence until I can find a job to support myself? To get the education required to adapt to the culture of the other country, especially learning the dominant language? To cover the health insurance, both physical and mental, that I will require to manage my diabetes-addled physical body and my Asperger Syndrome-wracked mind?

Again, since I'm only 22 and fresh out of college, I have nowhere near the savings required to undertake such a monumental operation. And since the article itself does such a good job telling me how I won't even make enough money to stay alive, let alone move to another country, I'm as good as screwed.

Maybe since I'm screwed, those of you who so loudly advocate moving out can set up a "move Webimpulse out of America" fund so I can get the funds to move out before I finally blow my brains out in despair. Or maybe those of you who don't think I even deserve to live, being a white male American citizen, should just come over to my place and take my life for me, since I'm too much of a wuss to do it myself.

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» RE: Moving out is great, but... Posted by: mwildfire

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The saddest story I've seen on the Alternet
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Posted by: badkitty53 on Jan 3, 2006 4:30 PM   
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Yes, this is probably the saddest story and set of comments I've ever seen on the Alternet. I often wonder where this glowing economy the Republicans see is, since I really have never seen it. As the mother of a 23 year college student, my husband and I have struggled to pay to pay for his college (no help from him!) and only because I was able to save a lot during the dot.com boom (the only time we ever had an income approximating the middle class) have we been able to pay for it without resorting to anything but a small college loan and a small loan on the house (we bought a foreclosure the last time the housing market bottomed out, in 1992). All I can see is, there isn't much future, even with frugality and avoiding all the luxuries like cable or satellite tv, etc. (remember, TVs have only been around for about 50 years), and my husband, who finally has a permanent full time job again after more than three years of looking (he never had any college), is hoping a job will open up in Canada so we can move and he won't have to worry about healthcare after we retire at 70. In response to two comments, city jobs sure are nice, and my soon-to-be ex-sister-in-law makes more in her city job (and benefits too!) than my husband and I do put together. Trade jobs are great, but sometimes hard to get into and a good friend, who is a carpenter specializing in clean facilities, works for real jerks as he supervises remodels for big pharmaceutical companies. I think IanA has the best response, and believe me, if I could get rid of the Defense Department, everyone would be better off and probably a lot safer too. Good luck to everyone, and maybe if we cooperate, we can do in the corporations.

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» RE: BLAME g~d Posted by: Iconoclast421

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Just a paycheck away...
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Posted by: CLaudLaw on Jan 3, 2006 4:50 PM   
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I think it's time for everyone who feels any degree of comfort in this country to honestly assess why.

ON the surface I'm doing ok, I make a much higher wage than most doing activist work that I love. I have health insurance and some savings. I rent a nice apartment in a clean safe building. By many accounts I am a success story. But let's all be honest, two "flips of a coin" got me here: 1. Being lucky enough to have parents who could scrape by to afford sending me to a State University, and 2. Having a grandfather who was kind enough to help me and my parents with a year's tuition. These kinds of things are sheer luck of the draw.

Idiotic people tell me I made "wise" choices (state schools vs. private, not spending extravagently, not getting into credit card debt). That's bullshit. I was LUCKY, pure and simple.

And yet still, like most on this board, I have grave fears about having kids when I am 31 and 60K in debt from Grad School. I live in one of the most dangerous cities in America, I am 1 1/2-2 hours away from my job in one direction by commuter train. I spent 6 years in a building owned by a slumlord.

I have adopted the frugal lifestyle habits of my working poor parents, as well as their mantra, drilled into me at a young age: "We are all a paycheck away from disaster." Period. 95% of us are just one medical bill, one layoff, one natural disaster, or one ill-informed decision away from poverty.

Please, everyone, especially those who feel like they are safely ensconsed in the protective arms of the "middle-class", GET REAL. There is no longer a middle class in this country and we will have to fight like hell to get it back.

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Tone
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Posted by: Tone on Jan 3, 2006 5:50 PM   
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You guys can't see the forest for the trees.

You want the right job in the right town with the right house and a kid or two to complete the package. You also expect that that job will automatically pay enough for you to have all those things.

What we need to realize is that all those things are not birthrights. Time to let go of the myth of the American dream folks.

There's elements of truth in both arguments. Life is more expensive but our expectations have also risen considerably.

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Collectivize! Anarchism/Socialism within capitalism
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Posted by: 538T on Jan 3, 2006 5:58 PM   
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I'm a poor college student too, I work full time, study full time, and live below the poverty line, but I live a pretty comfortable life. Along with 7 other like-minded students I live in a nice big house ran as an urban collective. Individually, we don't make enough to eat or pay rent, but by pooling our resources together we prosper (its all about the economies of scale) -our city flat of 5400 sq ft is only $165 a month for rent per, the best deal in the whole city. Alot of people complain about Mexicans or Latinos doing it, but hey it works. The whole point is that in a failed or malevolent economy we on the bottom can only survive by establishing our own informal economic systems within which to live. I live an okay anarchist/socialist life within a bad capitalist system.
Now as for all the loans, I can't exactly collectivize those, but maybe i could defult on them and go to jail for a few years, lol.

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saving money on a low income
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Posted by: zeegit on Jan 3, 2006 6:24 PM   
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When I was in my mid-20s, I managed to save what seemed to me like a lot of money on an income of $30k while living in Washington DC. This was in the late 1990s. Maybe this can give some ideas to ppl who find themselves in a bind today. I do come from a privileged background in many ways and have advantages that others don't have, and I recognize that this is not for everyone. Here is what I did.

*No debt (Parents paid for college. I recognize this is a BIG advantage I had that most people do not have.)
*No kids
*No car
*Lived in a group house with 4 roommates - my share of the rent was about $260 per month. The group house was in an "undesirable" neighborhood but it was central.
*Commuted by bicycle (so not much spent on public transit either)
*Shopped exclusively at 2nd hand stores for clothes
*Next to no money spent on furniture. You can inherit beds, chairs, tables, etc from roommates in the group house that move on to new housing arrangements.
*Free entertainment - In DC there were always free events downtown, free movies if you look for them, volunteer usher to get into the theatre for free, go to parks, the museums are free, the zoo is free, etc. My paid entertainment was mostly the $2.50 2nd-run movie theatre and rented videos.
*No gym membership
*One phone line shared by the 5 housemates
*No cable TV
*No Internet (used the Internet at work)
*Shared food and went mostly vegetarian. The food budget can really stretch if you buy communally and take turns preparing food and buy lots of grains and beans and veggies.

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"Owning a home" often a misnomer
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Posted by: Dorothy.Lorenz on Jan 3, 2006 6:36 PM   
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The majority of us 20/30 crowd who own homes in non-cesspool US housing markets do so through tricky lending schemes like 125% lending (i.e., no down payment) and interest only mortgages (i.e., affordable mortgage payments).

These folks get to say they "own" a home, but because of how these mortgages work, they really don't have any equity. It's more like renting from the bank, without the benefit of free repairs and maintenance. All the risk of home ownership without the financial rewards.

I bet most of you posting here could find a lender who would give you a loan. You'd then join the folks who, chances are, will be screwed when the bubble bursts and everyone's loans are worth more than the homes are.

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» RE: "Owning a home" often a misnomer Posted by: Dorothy.Lorenz

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Buy Used, Avoid Debt
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Posted by: surroundedbybeauty on Jan 3, 2006 8:06 PM   
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Though I resonate with much that Horn writes, I have two points of rebuttal:

1) Horn writes: "Additionally, credit cards bear the costs of setting up an apartment and acquiring a professional wardrobe." You can furnish an apt. and acquire a professional wardrobe at 1/10 - 1/100 of the cost of buying new by purchasing from thrift stores and yard sales or finding furniture that others are tossing by cruising alleys.

I teach part-time at Cal State Long Beach, and I must dress professionally--generally suits, nice slacks and skirts. Rarely a week goes by without someone complimenting my attire, yet at least 90 percent of my clothes and jewelry and nearly 100 percent of my dishes and furniture have been acquired through alternate means. Yet I wear brand names, often items that still had the original price tags on them from Nordstroms or Macys when I purchased them.

2) When I discuss the above with my students as an alternative to credit card debt, they view me as someone from another planet. Consumption of new products is the paradigm that the vast majority of them are operating under, as are the overwhelming majority of all Americans.

Think outside the box. Buy used. Barter your talents. Stay out of debt. Basically, change the paradigm.

Heidi

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Thanks for the comments
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Posted by: AndyF on Jan 3, 2006 8:35 PM   
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I think I struck a nerve.

I'm amazed at the personal attacks and assumptions which people make. BTW my wife and I are somehow managing to raise 4 healthy and generally happy kids on ~$45,000/yr in central NY. No inheritances, we're paying a mortgage, have older cars and try to live within our means. Most of the people I know are also able to do the same and somehow their kids after finishing college or learning a trade are able to find jobs and make their way also.

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The "American Dream" is and always has been a myth of epic proportion...
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Posted by: quimper on Jan 3, 2006 8:50 PM   
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...and it's quite deadly for a number of fellow humans. Good luck to everyone who has yet to wake up to the reality of life on Planet Earth in the 21st century... and even better luck to those who have.

If there is a God, may he/she/it
Bless Everyone...
No Exceptions.

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» George Carlin says... Posted by: LMNOP

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strapped - please read and comment
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Posted by: wheels1950 on Jan 3, 2006 9:44 PM   
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As a parent of a 35 year old daughter I know all too well the problems trying to get by especially on the East and West coasts where the cost of living has skyrocketed.

I live in the midwest where homes as now starting to become unafordable as well. I don't see why people should have to wear hand-me-downs and sit at home very night.

Heres what bothers me:
1. Why have we voted in an administration that hurts the less than wealthy at every turn? Katrina, college loans, national health.
2. Why do we have a government that promotes outsourcing instead of stopping it? One law could stop all outsorcing.
3. Why when you say unions (where all the good pay came from) do people look at you like you just swore?

I know it doesn't look like your vote counts but it does if a lot of you vote, and not against gays or for intelligent design but for your own good. Unions may not be perfect but they are the source of good wages for large groups. We need a little socialism.

JLW

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THE WAY IT SHOULD BE
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Posted by: dadanbetty on Jan 3, 2006 10:03 PM   
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America is a corporation. Places such as: San Fran area, NYC, DC area, Seattle, Portland, Boston, etc, are all great places for the progressive thinking-minded, but how can one afford to live in any of these places....especially if you fancy eating real food and you didn't secure some property before the middle of the eighties? What if you have a dependent?

I moved out of the corporate bubble and moved to a developing Asian country a year ago. I live in a nice comfortable apt two floors above a French restaurant. If I go another 10 Meters, there are two more restaurants, a mini-mart and a french bakery. My apt is 54 sq meters and costs about $345.00 a month. Within 200 meters in three different directions of my apt is a buddhist temple, a Hindu temple and a mosque and nobody comes knocking on my door begging me to convert! Within 25 meters there is a street market and a grocery store. I have high-speed Internet, cable TV, eat real food, pay a very reasonable price for massages, enjoy a rich, diverse culture and do not have to own a car. If I want to watch movies I can either rent them from the video shop 25 meters away or I can just buy the lastest bootleg off the street for a cheap price. Can you even imagine what it would cost to enjoy this type of lifestyle in one of the aforementioned cities. I am in my early forties, have completed graduate school, and do more reading than writing, travel around to other countries at a very reasonable rate, do not work, and live off of mine and other people's taxes. Basically, my life does not include stress. My physical and mental health are sound.

America is an interesting place to visit. For all you people who possess a soul and a conscience and are stuck in the bubble for various reasons......my heart goes out to you.

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» RE: THE WAY IT SHOULD BE Posted by: rothermelgirl
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OKAY, so everyone who is advocating moving to another ctry...
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Posted by: rothermelgirl on Jan 3, 2006 10:55 PM   
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....or who is living in another country -- can you please fill me in on something? It is my understanding that, even if we were to find a way to get accepted by that country, barring forsaking our US citizenship altogether, we would be subject (if we made any sort of reasonable income) to a significantly increased tax rate all around...something like paying the host country taxes as well as US taxes (after a certain level of income).

Perhaps I don't have the story straight, but this does not seem very feasible to me (my taxes here are, what, 40% or so, and average about 60%-70% of income in Europe, I believe, as an example). Any enlightenment would be appreciated...and I don't mean enlightenment in the form of "dodge taxes" ;)

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Oh, that kind of strapped.
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Posted by: Kneel on Jan 4, 2006 3:05 AM   
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Poverty, even dire poverty, have been around for long time in the US. So, what I'm not clear on is if the problem is that it's affecting college-educated, fair-skinned folk, who though they should be exempt. Were they this upset when the poverty was at a more convenient remove?

Because though they have some possibility of getting out of it, or at least coping, there are a lot of people who have no hope but the pipe dream of hitting the lottery. And they cope with a lot more than well-educated, reasonably privileged folks seem to imagine is possible.

We've made very bad choices about using resources for a long time, or allowed them to be made for us. It does seem to be skewing worse, but it's been around for a long time.

A Swedish friend lived in a house that has one been part of summer camp for poor children. "But, with the war, the economy took off" she told me, "so there was no more poverty."

That stunned me. We don't even seem to think anymore of using an economic boom to actually eliminate poverty.



The consumption argument has little validity. When I lived in one of the cities mentioned above as having such cheap rent (and if you're can work on the internet, why live in a city at all?), after work (I worked two jobs, one-full time and mind-numbing) there was really nothing to do that didn't involve spending money. There were precious few pleasant places to walk or gather, no place with range to swim in a lake or river (things I love to do in the summertime)... there was only buying stuff. You work that schedule, make that pay, deal with the constant stress of a low wage life - from rapacious slumlords to cops pulling you over for driving an old car at night, live such an unrewarding life and then see how well you resist those little temptations to give yourself a bit of comfort.


Having lived in Canada, I agree that the quality of life is substantially higher. It's not paradise, but people do seem to have a little more control over how resources are used. One example - even the right wing of Canadian politics claims to be in favor of socialized medicine (and, for anyone wondering, I found the medical care there to be vastly superior to that of the US even when I had good insurance).


Funny, though, when I read the title I thought the book was about young people feeling a need to carry weapons.

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» RE: Oh, that kind of strapped. Posted by: bettsoff
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memorable mental picture
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Posted by: GirlCousin on Jan 4, 2006 11:31 AM   
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The mental picture from the author slamming el presidente's head on his oval office desk was priceless! Too bad Barbara didn't do more of that! Anywho, let's take this one step farther and the next time you hear someone rattle off that tired old cliche about the overpaid union people, rear back, get up on your hind legs and point out no one criticizes the obscene amount paid to CEOs, COOs, etc., etc. The first rule of accounting is we live in a scarcity of resources. They got theirs and....they got theirs.

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» RE: memorable mental picture Posted by: Jarnsaxa

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The Wrong Bubble?
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Posted by: K.J. on Jan 4, 2006 2:04 PM   
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I'm truly sorry to hear we're all doing so poorly. I have a question though: before the postwar boom years, weren't most Americans pretty badly off? There was the Great Depression...and before that, the ratio of rural-living to urban-living folks was the opposite of what it is today. They couldn't have afforded washers & DVDs even if such things had been available then.

What I'm suggesting is that the 1950s through 1970s was perhaps just a hiccup of prosperity, a period when we enjoyed (and came to expect) a much higher standard of living than we would otherwise have achieved without the types of programs other westernized countries have. Maybe it was an extended bubble, but a bit freakish nonetheless, and now that we're sliding down to a lower level, it seems tougher than it would if we hadn't peaked so high.

Now, as we decline, we're surprised that some industrialized countries are easier to get along in than ours. I'm not suggesting it's a natural rate of decline--corrupt policies and corporate piracy have accelerated the squeeze--but that the boom itself might have been an unusual ripple. We're simply returning to our own older model of having a general population that is mostly poor, while the elite are increasingly rich and powerful. We did not take advantage of our golden years to set up a better safety net. We don't have the happier, fairer medium that Canada and England have settled for.

So we'll suffer some more until we figure it out & vote in some changes.

In the meantime, I have to also say: we might be severely squeezed, but most of us still have it pretty good in a lot of areas.

I'm no optimist. I am disgusted and alarmed at our government's greedy and wasteful allocation of every last dollar to war and business. I feel lied to; I feel like everyone around me owns a house and two cars and has beautiful, healthy children--all things I'll never be able to afford.

However, I am keenly aware that a huge amount of the world's population has it worse than I do. I've been a lot poorer in my life than I am right now. But I have always had the eyeglasses I need to see clearly, clean water coming from the tap, never gone to bed hungry, and nobody's firing on my house in the night. That's more than millions of my fellow human beings can say. So I keep on voting & working to create change, and feel grateful for the blessings that I have.

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For starters: get a library card and don't buy the book
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Posted by: gerbear on Jan 4, 2006 3:19 PM   
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It is not the "baby boomers" who have done this. It is the greedy corporations who have outsourced your futures, mine and my children's. Many of us are in the same leaky boat. I am worried for my children=both college grads without debt cause they listened and went to state colleges which I could help them pay for and both had part time jobs since they were 14. Unfortunately, they did not listen about career choices and both went into "Communications". I am hoping they see the light soon and go back at night while they are still young enough to get a degree or trade ed in some other fields. Thankfully neither are spenders and both only have one credit card 'cause you need that. And, they both shop bargains or do without and do their own nails (a pet peeve) and have basic cable (another pet peeve). One has already bought an extreme fixxer upper in a changing area so I am very hopeful for her.
Good Luck to us all and I hope we take this country back for the working "middle class"

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Choices and choices
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Posted by: anothername on Jan 4, 2006 4:12 PM   
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I can appreciate all the comments people have made, but it comes down to individual choices for each person and each family, plus the cultural and societal messages we have been given officially and unofficially. Personally, I have been offered many jobs over the decades that I have turned down that would have given me an easy life. If I absolutely had to, I could find a good paying job and slip into the middle class lifestyle. However, what I object to is not being able to afford to live a healthy life, with activities, open fresh air, mental challenge, and low-cost expenses without having to work 50 hours a week in a a 10-year career track with some company that dictates how I dress, how I think, what my hours will be. Why cannot I find a part-time job that pays me a living wage if I choose not to own a car or buy a big house? Why cannot I work as a temporary or contractor without big-priced contracts for part of the year and afford to travel on a shoestring in lieu of buying cable TV and MP3 services? Why cannot I choose to stay at home with children while a life partner works a job he or she enjoys and takes sandwiches for lunch? This is what has changed in America. There have always been the very poor and the very rich, but people could choose the lifestyle they want and find work that would allow they to have it. That no longer is the case.

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» RE: Choices and choices Posted by: sethx9
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Suck it up
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Posted by: eecooper on Jan 4, 2006 6:17 PM   
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I can understand not being able to buy a home in a major metropolitan area, and I can understand worrying about making enough money to have kids. But I don't understand how 20-somethings are having so much trouble.
I have a TON of debt from my undergraduate work. And I worked to make the difference between what my scholarships and loans would cover and what I needed to live on. But you know what? God bless Sallie Mae, because unlike other loans, college loans you can a) defer if you go back to graduate school b) pay off extremely low minimum payments each month c) enjoy low interest rates d) negotiate with them if you can't make your payments. So I don't see my college debt as a serious hinderance to my financial status. Maybe that's just because I'm in graduate school (and making a living wage doing it).
I did, however, switch graduate programs, leaving me in a 6-month paycheck lurch. Did I pay my rent using my credit card? No, I walked my sorry ass down to the grocery store, gave them my brightest smile, and landed myself a job at the checkout line. Yes, people treated me like I was stupid because they assume people working at the grocery store have never been to college (much less have masters degrees). I wasn't making a ton of money, and I certainly wasn't getting ahead financially. And it was an awful job- but I wasn't sliding further into debt. Anything I couldn't afford to pay it off right away, I didn't put it on my credit card. When my car broke down, I rode my bike to work until I could afford to get it fixed. And no, communiting by bike in Los Angeles is not pleasant. But sometimes you just have to suck it up.

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» RE: Suck it up Posted by: YogiBear

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John1969
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Posted by: johnjeffers on Jan 4, 2006 7:21 PM   
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Let me clue you to what life as a 20-something was like in the 1970's. My girlfriend and I graduated college in 1975. She received a Bachelor of Science & I received a Master of Science. Nixon controlled "stagflation" (stagnant economy w/ hyperinflation) w/ wage & price controls. Ford struggled to bring the Nation out of the worst economy in 20 years (mostly created by the influx of boomers into a workforce unprepared to absorb this huge number of new workers). By the end of the decade, Carter faced an oil embargo & high unemployment.My girlfriend couldn't find a teaching job. Inability to find a job in the profession for which a person was trained was common. Education loans were due.She took a job earning $50/week & a second job waiting tables (50cents/hr +tips). I took a job at $5600/yr & a 2nd job ($90/month) & a 3rd ($75/week)It was low pay for the time. We were on our own. As were our friends. "Easy credit" terms were not invented. We bought when we had the money. How did we do it? A used car and lots of cheap meals. A lot of beans. We turned to horse meat for a while. Horse meat farmers had a banner year in 1976. We wore the same clothes until they were worn out. We put cardboard in shoes to patch holes. No complaints.
Two things about the current economy. One boomer brought you a terrific economy. Another, flushed that economy. One boomer brought you the desktop computer and the iPod. Another is in bed with your future Chinese bosses, and is willing to have his company aid the Chinese censorship attempts.
1. If you voted for Bush once, shame on you.
2. If you voted for Bush twice, you are to blame for the coming "worst recession in world history" (scheduled to start in 2008 and scheduled to last until at least 2015.
My advice to 20-somethings today:
Buck up, suck it up, and, (given the economy is already f*** up), start making plans to work with the rest of us to take care of each other and ourselves.
Get out and work. Make something of yourself. And, make something of this world.
Stop living on credit. Stop buying stuff you don't need. Stop thinking anyone owes you anything.
Start looking to take care of the generation that brought you the tools you need to make something of yourself and the resources you need to make something of the world.
Eat your vegies, and listen to your mother. (turn off that damn light and shut the front door.... were you raised in a barn?)

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Lived Experience
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Posted by: lmwilker on Jan 5, 2006 8:39 AM   
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I live in Indiana and feel the pain that many of the Coasters feel. I carry $40,000.00 in student loan debt and earn $9.57 an hour with no insurance. My spouse has an advanced degree and an additional $20,000.00 in student loan debt and works for a "major research university" where he earns $33,000.00 a year after 20 years there in a position that is slated for elimination. We cannot afford to help our own children with their educations. We had to move a half an hour commute away from work to find affordable housing in a energy guzzling house built in 1921 and we drive a car that is over ten years old. When our last car broke down my husband hitchhiked to work for three months in the dead of winter until we could find another one we can afford. We haven't used a credit card in years but still have credit card debt. My parents, both high school graduates, made more per hour working in factories, dollar to dollar, not any of this adjusted crap, than either my husband and I make with college degrees. We live one paycheck away from utter financial disaster.

I totally agree with the plumber and have advised my children they should have a skilled trade and work for themselves. I personally think going to college was one of the stupidest things I ever did.

I don' t blame the Boomers I blame the "Me Generation." My parents are Baby Boomers and I am a Baby Boomer but we had totally different experiences. For the Me Generation everyone who came after was the "Screw You Generation."

We have ripped the heart out of the Hearland and America is bleeding to death because of it.

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the higher price of meritocracy
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Posted by: cultureindustries on Jan 5, 2006 9:41 AM   
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I recently went back to graduate school after 20 years in the workforce. Talk about sticker shock! I just didn't remember an education being so expensive. As an undergrad in the 70s I worked a summer job that paid my expenses for the whole year. Sure enough, I did a quick analysis and discovered in the 70s I could pay my tuition with about 225 minimum wage hours of work. Now my tuition is nearly 3000 minimum wage hours. In other words, you can't make enough money in a year of working more than full time to make the nut.

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Whine, Whine, Wimper Wimper
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Posted by: Cy Nicks on Jan 5, 2006 12:51 PM   
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College educated. Double income, no kids. Poor Baby...

Sit down with your spouse and figure out, exactly, what it is your want. Then lay out a plan to get there. It's called goal setting.

Set a goal. List the objectives needed to get to that goal. Under each objective, lay out the plan to achieve that objective -- include a proposed time line for each plan. If you do this correctly, you can't fail.

Take a lesson from Tamara Draut. She's not strapped. She wrote a book and sold it to people like you. Quit whining -- it uses energy that you should be channeling into making things happen.

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Strapped
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Posted by: rafey on Jan 6, 2006 11:29 AM   
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My mother was not a wage earner but my father managed to purchase a two story four bedroom, three bath home, pay for all the necessities required of all of us kids growing up, private school and college tuition , medical expenses and still manage to take a two and a half month annual unpaid Summer holiday (during which we travelled extensively) and still had plenty for retirement. He also arrived home at 5:00 sharp each and every afternoon to play catch with us and then have dinner (at the very same table) I, on the other hand, have college, post grad and professional degrees and earn six times my father's former salary and .... I live a relatively unguilded, simple life, rarely going to restaurants or to the movies (which have become excessivly expensive) and I can barely afford rent on a not so roomy apartment. You get the picture. I have discovered over the years, attending many a high school and college reunion that I share this bizarre problem with my entire generation. It is virtually impossible to put away enough savings to even consider retirement (that is not even in the plan anymore). There is no longer oportunity in the U.S. but for those who already have the means and where-with-all to afford it (a relatively small percentage). Unless one happens to be a corporate cow, it simply isn't possible to maintain a steady state here any more. My Asian and European friends do not seem to have share these problems. Although their taxes are relatively high, their education and medical care has been free and easily accessible and there is a most excellent safety net in place for all and retirement is virtually guranteed as is care for the elderly. They actually get something of great value in return for taxation.

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Something must be done
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Posted by: Project on Student Debt on Jan 6, 2006 3:40 PM   
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I have read "Strapped," and I highly recommend it. The story Draut tells is reality, and it needs to be understood and addressed both by those of us who are living it and our elected officials.
Luckily, there are a handful of organizations working on debt issues already, so that young adults (and the rest of the country) can have a chance at a sound financial future.
The stories that many people have shared in comments on this article should be shared with a wider audience to help get the word out.
There are two good places to share experiences related to student loan debt: The Project on Student Debt and the Student Debt Yearbook.
The number of comments that have been made here is a testament to the magnitude of this problem. We all feel its effects, and it's about time that people started talking about it.

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Links to tell debt stories
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Posted by: Project on Student Debt on Jan 6, 2006 3:42 PM   
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For some reason, my link tags didn't work.
Those urls are
http://projectonstudentdebt.org/voices_home.php
and www.studentdebtalert.org

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You're welcome to come to Canada
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Posted by: jdemidoff on Jan 6, 2006 6:45 PM   
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We need lots of people, especially in Alberta. Trades and healthcare professionals especially welcome. I think that moving to the Yukon, Alberta or Northeastern B.C. would be your best bet economically. You won't get rich, but it sounds like many of you would be happier.

Vote Green on January 23.

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Democracy? You have GOT to be kidding
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Posted by: J. Walter Plinge on Jan 7, 2006 2:16 PM   
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Muppet wrote:
Personally, I see the USA as hugely successful social and political experiment. A nation, built from scratch, founded through debate and reason, and deliberately planned as a democracy with emphasis on individual freedom.


The biggest fattest lie in the history of the world is the propaganda that the U.S. is a democracy. People in Tiananmen Square died believing that one. The SECOND biggest lie - running neck and neck with the first - is the lie that the U.S. is a REPUBLIC (see the flag Pledge, "... to the Republic for which it stands ...").

History book claim that the founders intentionally designed a Republic rather than a Democracy, but if you check any reasonably complete dictionary you will find that Republics require that elected representative be held strictly accountable to their electorate. Yet there is nothing whatsoever in the U.S. Constitution that enforces accountability - either morally, ethically, or legally - by elected representatives. The U.S. is NOT a Republic. In fact, the electoral college was designed specifically to kick in if and when the voters elected the "WRONG" guy.

So if the U.S. is none of the above then what is it?: technically, it was designed from the very start as a Plutocracy, rule by the rich. At the time of its signing the Constitution provided that only rich white guys could vote. No Blacks, no women, no landless, no slaves, and no Indians or foreigners could vote. And you call that a Democracy?


Jerry Fresia details all this very well in his book, "Toward an American Revolution," where he says, "But the Constitution's very design, its processes, and its structure still gives life to the eighteenth century elitist belief that rich and powerful people ought to rule." Or, to put that in sharper terms, the authors of the Constitution argued, with a straight face, that women, slaves, blacks, the "un-propertied," and non-citizens like American Indians should have no say in government, and that laborers, should not have a vote in their government because they are not "worthy" landowners like the rich slave owners.

http://cyberjournal.org/cj/fresia/

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Listen to the new workforce!
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Posted by: FirstRide on Jan 7, 2006 5:54 PM   
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I enjoyed reading this article very much (as well as some of the perspectives in the comments). Thanks. I feel we are at a point where there are so many changes ahead of us that should have been tackled decades ago: Student Loans and the college system, Healthcare, Social Security, Foreign Policy, Retirement...I could go on. One very important issue is the burden we are putting on the new generation entering the workplace. Our standard of living is way too high for most. So if young people say they cannot afford to live the life they are dreaming about, why should we judge them (To Kill a Mockingbird?)

My advice is to listen to what the "new employees" are saying. If they are struggling to make ends meet and to accomplish their dreams, who is going to pay for the cars that keep workers on the production lines? Who is going to buy new homes? Who is going to pay taxes and social security to support people who are living longer and longer in retirement?

I think we will have to start seeing younger politicians, businesspeople and activists who can "Inspire" Generation Y (about 70 million people by 2010) to bring more of these issues to the foreground of our society. This is a truly intelligent and honest generation. My generation and the generations before have built empires on deception and political persuasion. To those who ridiculed Jodie: I hope you're not expecting your retirement to be covered by her contribution to Social Security. You can be so much more constructive if you listen. Great article Jodie.

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What is different is that you are making a good income!
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Posted by: Geni on Jan 7, 2006 6:37 PM   
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x

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Another life
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Posted by: jbloggz on Jan 10, 2006 6:25 AM   
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I read this entry with a mixture of emotions. I harkened back to my own struggle for life (I'm now heading fast for 68 years). I left school early to take a real paid job as a fireman on steam trains in England. From this to national army service two years in Far East and then to ball aching work "on the line" building trucks for Generous Motors! Tired of all this married with two kids I decided to try something different went into sales of machine tools as a representative. Now with some "background" but no qualifications other than the ability to converse well. I wanted something different. With only five pounds in my pocket after selling up my personal effects for the air fare I went to Central Africa. Slept in a guys garage for two months, whilst I looked for work. Got a job and to cut a long story very short went on to live in Africa for twelve happy years. After that I had another seven years in the Middle East including Baghdad where I met my now wife. I now live in Poland and have done so for around 15 years. Great country, horrible language but... it's where I hang my hat and will most likely find my ending. I get a small pension from the UK but I suppliment this with helping my wife in her small company. Real mom and pop stuff and light years away from the big jobs I had in the past. We do pretty well paid for our house a long while ago and have most things in life. I do a bit of writing short stories, a couple of novels. I still service the car myself. Live frugally little or no debt credit card or otherwise. Looking back I can say I must've gone through a ton of money during my life, including an acrimonious divorce, kids eductaion all the usual stuff. I rarely buy new clothes like previous contributors I use the second hand route. Happy? you bet. My only advice is not to give up just try and live with what you've got. If you want to travel just do it!

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2-3 kids, 1 wage earner, nice house? not today
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Posted by: K.J. on Jan 11, 2006 1:02 PM   
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Here's a simple test: quick, how many couples do you know who have kids and a house on one average income, with a stay-at-home parent? I'd have to say zero. I'm almost 40, work in an academic environment, and most of my colleagues make about $30K, so you know that's not happening for us. I'm an information professional with an advanced degree, doing database stuff, but I could be making just as much if I were a secretary.

My spouse was born in 1967 to a stable married couple: four young kids and a stay-at-home mom. Their dad worked in trades--electrician, etc.--and all through the 1970s and 1980s was always able to keep them in a modest 3-bedroom house on a single income. This was true for most of my little friends too--their moms stayed home with the kids, yet the family could afford a house on one income. There's no way you can do that now on an average income.

I'm not crying about inflation or the price of a loaf of bread (although at my local store, you can easily pay $4 for that, or a gallon of milk). But this country claims to be all about families and children, yet the average spouse/parent can't even begin to aspire to the supposed standard mode of living.

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Think about not having those babies
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Posted by: Artemis3 on Jan 14, 2006 1:23 PM   
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We don't need anymore kids being brought into this screwed-up world. Those that are already here need to be taken care of. Every problem that you can probably think of stems from the ever-increasing human population. It's selfish to think of bringing more humans into the world.

Myself, I am single and have no children by choice. I was born working-class but managed to put myself through community college and have an associates' degree, but as was said by another, the breaks have to be there for one to take advantage of them. My parents were not connected, nor was I, so I am still working-class, and struggling every day to make ends meet. I haven't been able to put savings away for years. I see the gap between rich and poor widening every day, and hate it. I refuse to step on others on my way to the so-called top, so here I will stay, barring some miracle or the Revolution. Let's hope it's the Revolution.

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anti-intellectualism
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Posted by: sableskin on Jan 17, 2006 10:40 AM   
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I cannot help feeling there seems to be a trend against education here. There are alot of people who do go to school, and work hard, and I don't think it is fair to automatically dismiss their accomplishments as just a diversion of the wealthy. Are they lucky to have had the opportunity, whether granted or created? Absolutely! But it is worth mentioning that alot of people are told, from birth, that a hs diploma is not enough, and in many cases it isn't. There are some exceptions; however, these are people who would likely have excelled anyway. There are alot of people for whom a college degree is a pathway to a decent living, and more than just a whim. The majority of degree holders worked hard, continue to work hard and are still finding themselves on the blunt end of the stick. I don't know how many people can honestly say they would have skipped college if they knew what they know now, simply because it is nearly impossible to know exactly what having a degree did for you. As disturbing as the economic trends that make education so hard to get, equally disturbing is the trend to dismiss formal education. There is more value in it than just job prospects. There is also (for the most part) the value of having an educated poplace.

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Oh, It CAN Be Done
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Posted by: Storyteller on Jan 19, 2006 12:01 PM   
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Folks, please.

Like most hotly-contested topics, there is some truth in both sides of this argument. Those of you who state that "It can't be done!" are, however, way off base.

I am 35 years old.

I am married.

I have lots of college credit hours, but no degree.

We have a 3-year-old daughter.

I live in a very low cost-of-living state.

My wife has been a stay-at-home mom since before our daughter was born.

We are homeowners, and have been since 1996.

Until last month, we were debt-free except for our mortgage. That includes a zeroed-out-balance on my $20k+ in student loans. (We now have an auto loan, thanks to an auto accident caused by someone else. The car loan, however, will be paid off quite ahead of schedule, I can assure you. I despise debt.)

This past year, my annual pay eclipsed the $63k mark, thanks to a great employer, a wee bit (

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Not just 20 or 30 somethings...
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Posted by: Madam Hatter on Jan 3, 2006 12:41 AM   
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I'm in my mid 40s and have had the same conversations with my father. Athough life started out well in my 20s, a divorce and the dot com crash devasted my finances and I haven't recovered since. Dad harps on me about saving for my retirement, but I have trouble even paying the rent some months!

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» RE: Not just 20 or 30 somethings... Posted by: monkeywrench
» RE: Not just 20 or 30 somethings... Posted by: liberalibrarian

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AndyF
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Posted by: AndyF on Jan 3, 2006 4:31 AM   
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Oh come on. Please start to look closely at your expenses and separate needs from wants and start to cut back on the wants. If given the type of work you do, you cannot afford to live the type of life you aspire to in LA move or modify your expectations. Instead of credit cards for clothes, go to the consignment shop, second hand store or just buy less. If you need to borrow money to go home for a visit or go to a wedding - don't go. I sound like an old man here, but it works.

Also recognize how expectations have changed. If you're looking to live a 1960's style single income life, do it like most people did in the 1960's - < 2,000sqft single bath house, no cable TV, no cell phone, one car (not a luxo SUV or fancy car, but something basic like a Toyota Corolla), no broad band internet connection, eat at home except for special occasions, simple vacations (I remember well the every other year trips to see my grandparents - 1,000 mile drive with a packed cooler so that we didn't have to eat out), maybe one or two paid activities for the kids rather than a half dozen, no media rooms or home theatres with their attendant libraries of DVDs and CDs - use the library instead... The list could go on for a long time, but the point remains the same; the article here is yet another variation on the "I want it all now" theme.

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housing in LA
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Posted by: menckenman on Jan 3, 2006 5:05 AM   
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You can cut back all you want, you still can't afford to buy a condo or house in LA, and all your rent is money thrown away, building no equity or collateral.

You can cut back, but you still have to drive to work and pay double the price for gas.

And where are all those great jobs after college? Gone to India.

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Get to the hard-ball version
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Posted by: J. Walter Plinge on Jan 3, 2006 5:05 AM   
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RE: "Strapped"

If your review of the book is accurate Tamara Draut's version of reality is a good start but it's just a softball version of the real thing. The reality is that the money system is doing just exactly what it was designed to do: pump wealth from laborers into the hands of those who control the system.

Not many people are interested in this topic so I'll just suggest a few sites to look at.


Turbo Slavery: Money, Debt And Reality
http://www.frugalfun.com/slavery.shtml

Everything Changed in 1971
http://ebean390.tripod.com/walt1971.html

BOOK: Luttwak, Edward, Turbo-capitalism : winners and losers in the global economy.

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» RE: Kleptocracy does not require money Posted by: J. Walter Plinge

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"I'm moving to Canada so I can afford to have a family."
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Posted by: LMNOP on Jan 3, 2006 5:12 AM   
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"I'm moving to Canada so I can afford to have a family."

Why would anyone that didn't need to choose to hang around this shit hole for a day longer than necessary? The only thing America had to offer Americans was a higher than average standard of living, and now the Republicans have stolen that.

Really, why else would you want to be an American? This is an intellectual and spiritual wasteland, and you pay a very high price to participate. It wasn't much of a deal when all it offered was wealth, and now, it can't provide that for anyone who is not a celebrity or a criminal.

Does this offend you? Then go back to your drudgery, credit card debt and Fox News. You deserve no better. If you are still proud of America, then you have been in a coma for too long and you are part of the problem.

I pledge allegiance only to that which demonstrates allegiance to me. This includes my friends and family, but not my government or country.

Sorry. It's just that my Uncle Sam has molested me for too long now, and I not only don't love him any more, I don't want to be around him.

To those of you who think that you can correct this mess, good luck. But for those like me who consider America to be a failed experiment and a cesspool of the human spirit, it's perfectly OK to give up on it and seek greener pastures where you will enjoy more freedoms, a higher standard of living and not have to be ashamed of your people or your government. It's time for a lot of us to cut the cord.

Patriotism is another form of zealotry in America, and I've been completely cured of it nor just by the Bushistas, but also by the tens of millions of Stepford citizens that voted for him and still support him, most of them superstitious, violent, ignorant and selfish. It's time for many of us to cut the cord to the motherland. Not all problems can be fixed.

One huge advantage of leaving this polity is withdrawing your tax support for it. No more of your hard earned dollars need to go to maim Iraqi civilians or to pad Cheney's stock portfolio.

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» RE: My sister moved to India and has a better life Posted by: anonymous black writer
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» RE: Baloney! Posted by: owleyes

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War declared not on Irak but on hard working americans
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Posted by: ng1944 on Jan 3, 2006 5:35 AM   
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War declared on hard working americans by corporations
and all these corporate spitlickers that are in power.
Irak mostly for diversion.

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OH, I'm just AVERAGE!
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Posted by: jalicki2 on Jan 3, 2006 5:53 AM   
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Oh my God, I'm a shining example of the people described in this article! I'm a single, white, university educated male, age 36. I don't own a home, can barely pay my rent, and I'm drowning in student loan debt after attending college for 6.5 years. (How many "economic hardship" loan deferments will Sallie Mae give you anyway? I'll let you know.) My wants and needs are in balance, as I've convinced myself that I'm living a very enviro-conscious lifestyle - "living simply so that others may simply live." I grow my own vegetables. Frugality is a constant state of being. I had to live at my parents place for almost 20 months back in 2000-02 because I was unemployed. Now, everything I own fits in the back of my seven year old pick-up truck (although I did buy a recliner last year). I sure would like to have kids someday, but that seems like a very, very distant dream. I don't have health insurance, and I just used the last of my 401K money to fix my truck. I no longer have any savings. My mother just sighs when she looks at me, then quietly goes to church and prays that my life will improve. I seem to be a huge disappointment, as my much older sisters are both college professors and there is a perception that I should be doing something similar. Sometimes Mom asks me to go to church with her so that I can meet a "nice girl" and find my way in the world. THANK YOU, now I get to tell her that I'm NOT a complete loser, just AVERAGE. I think I may actually take the returnables back to the store today so that I have the cash to buy this book. On the way to the bookstore I will sing the song from the puppet-sex movie 'America: World Police.' It goes likes this... "America, F*CK YEAH!"

Jerome Alicki
blackbearspeaks.blogspot.com

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A bit of truth in all
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Posted by: anothername on Jan 3, 2006 5:55 AM   
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Yes, this new economic order is hard on people of all ages. Yes, many people can reduce their costs of living by cutting out non-essential items. Yes, people can become ex-patriots. I used to move every few years to explore a new part of the country or planet. I no longer can afford to do that because of all the rules and regulations that have been enacted by both Democrats and Republicans in Congress using "security" and "job protection" and "safety" as buzzwords. I used to be able to move to a new city and have a job the next day, but now I have to show so much documentation it is difficult. I used to be able to get a driver's license with my identity, but one state told me that if I wanted to keep using my middle name instead of being known by my first name I would have to spend hundreds of dollars for a name change; now I cannot even cash a check off of my own bank account because I refused to pay the money because I did not think it fair or affordable. I used to be able to find an apartment easily and live in it month-to-month. Now I have to show so much documentation and wait so long for even the least expensive apartment that all I can afford to do is live in higher priced hotels until the process works itself out. Heck, I was in California for a few months and tried to rent an apartment. I couldn't because one of the major property owners insisted upon either a California driver's license or a passport. Since I am a US citizen I did not have a passport with me and since I was not moving to California, I did not want to go to the expense and hassle of a driver's license. Yes, it is more costly to live these days. Yes, people can try to cut back on costs, but when business and government insist that we spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to do what we used to expect for no out-of-pocket expense, we are limiting our individual growth and options.

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» RE: A bit of truth in all Posted by: drone
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No wonder these lousy politicians distract the voters
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Posted by: maxpayne on Jan 3, 2006 6:19 AM   
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by calling these youngsters "MTV voters" every time during the election. The article sure exposes the real oppression youngsters are facing but you'll rarely hear either party address these issues much less solve them. Well, they'll "solve" them by putting out flames with gasoline. Note the quotes around solve means they won't really solve it but define the word to their liking to make it feel like creating more problems is a good thing.

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While you're at it...
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Posted by: guess on Jan 3, 2006 6:23 AM   
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"...I have developed a recurring fantasy of taking President Bush, grabbing him by the hair and slamming his face on his desk repeatedly while screaming, "Family values? I'll show you family values."

Give Chimpy a few face slams for me,would ya. Thanks.

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» RE: While you're at it... Posted by: drone

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it's not just the 20, 30 somethings that are economically strapped
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Posted by: roxanna juanita on Jan 3, 2006 7:48 AM   
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After 13 years of marriage, with three children in tow, I divorced my husband 12 years ago. This past May, after 10 years of study, working and keeping a roof over our heads, I finally finished my Bachelors degree with a huge debt. At 47 years old, and three decades in the workforce working minimum or slightly above minimum wage jobs, I am now in an "entry level" position, earning just a little more than $24,000 per year. My rent is $900 per month for a two bedroom townhouse. My youngest child still lives with me and turns 18 in a month, at which time her father will no longer have to pay me the $500 per month in child support that currently at least pays half our rent. The prospect of graduate school is enticing, but another 20, 30 or 40 thousand in debt certainly isn't. Will I EVER be able to afford a home of my own? Will I EVER pay off my student loan debt? What kind of retirement can I look forward to? I'm an intelligent and talented woman, I've got to believe that it'll all work out, but it's frightening sometimes to think that with no savings, I could easily find myself on the streets. I don't mean to whine here, but for Pete's sake, it's not right that we work 40 or 50 hours per week at jobs that are physically and emotionally draining, and still can't make ends meet.

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Forget age groups,WE'RE ALL HURTING
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Jan 3, 2006 7:52 AM   
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Unless you're lucky enough to live in what's considered 'Upper Income'. The Govt says only 1% have incomes above $100,000,000/year,and funny enough that's where most of the wealth stays. Meanwhile 80,000,000 People are 'forced' to live in low-income to keep the money flowing upwards and away from where it's really needed.Why? GREED. How can I say that? Simlpe. When I was a kid upper level middle income was around $25.000/yr.
Single income,three kids and ALL THE BILLS PAID,unless of course you're bad with money. In today's America you'd have to make better than $250,000/yr to be lower to mid level
Middle Income,live in a city of 100,000 with family and the bills paid. If it's a small town like NYC add $100,000/yr.
This is the kind of inequity the P.O.T. Party wants to set to right. The very wealthy have been sucking the poor dry since Kennedy got rid of the 91% tax bracket for the rich. The Country can no longer support the running of the People into the ground for the betterment of a few misguided,greed absorbed,control freaks. Bring the money back into the hands of the People with P.O.T.

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johnjord
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Posted by: johnjord on Jan 3, 2006 8:01 AM   
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I know that the old adage that without college you can't get anywhere is more true now than ever. But there is an alternative way of making a living. It's called a trade. Funny I am as well off or better off than many of my peers who went to college. I went staight into a trade out of High School, had two kids, now grown who also did not go to college, one is a police officer who with his wife, who also did not go to college made abouty 100,000.00 last year, good money in Houston, my other son is in oilfield and petrochemical repair and rebuild and he, his wife does not work made about 80,000.00 last year. I am a union Plumber, construction work mostly, I don't have a butt crack that shows either. I have since gone on to work as a city inspection supervisor, most of my plumber peers make on average 60,000.00 a year and up depending on whether they are supervisory, estimators, or work in the field as instalation mechanics. My point is that if you are willing to work hard, and I mean manually, a very good living can be made in the trades, electrical, plumbing, air conditioning, carpentry, brick laying, glass installers and glazing, concrete work, drywall, and on and on. Union apprenticeships last on average 3 to 5 years and require that you attend classes in practical and theory of the trades, you have some textbooks, and you make less while you are an apprentice but they don't require student loans and they are portable jobs, you can work just about anywhere. It's not the most glamorous career, and it has it's ups and downs also, but sometimes this idea that a college education is the only way is only perpetuated by those who went to college. All of us have seen examples of high school graduates teaching college graduates how to do a job so they can go on and do the same job the high school graduate has been doing and make more money, what's with this, I think it's bull myself, I am currently attending online classes for an associate degree, but only because I want to, It won't earn me any more money or make any difference in what I do for a living. And for heaven's sake move out of those expensive areas, they may pay more but everything cost more. You can still buy a 2400 sq. foot house in the houston area for less than 200,000.00 and we are the 4th largest city in the nation, if you can't get a job here you can't get a job anywhere! There are other ways to make a good living.
johnjord

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I hate baby boomers
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Posted by: IronNose on Jan 3, 2006 8:44 AM   
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Because of the luck of historical circumstances they grew up in a world of almost limitless opportunities and they've accumulated massive amounts of wealth. Now that they've made it to the top of the ladder however, they seem to be pulling the ladder up behind them, leaving following generations a world of diminished expectations. For the most part, boomers will retire comfortably, with their disgustingly smug, self-satisfied attitudes and little empathy for younger people who struggle with anxiety and insecurity about the future. Boomers make me sick and they completely sold this country out to rapacious coporate interests. And on top of it all, now they are whining about their need to keep their f-ing tax cut. Thanks for nothing you disgusting pigs.

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Money's Tight
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Posted by: Artkansas on Jan 3, 2006 9:04 AM   
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I hope those that give out the old palative that we just need to economize more to be successful will open their eyes.

It's not always that easy.

Several years ago I did an income/inflation inventory. I discovered that despite getting a degree and 25 years of experience and continued study in a high-tech field, I was paid in real terms about what I made in my first minimum wage job after high school.

While I don't buy clothes at Goodwill, I economize everywhere I can. I have a small apartment, I bicycle to work and pack my own lunches. It's not a libertine lifestyle.

Houses are a great investment. The down payment on a house in the last neighborhood I lived in would be about a year's salary. I remember in the early '60s. My father had a nice house in a great neighborhood. The whole thing cost about a year's salary for him. I've seen neighborhoods where population growth is 5% annually but the rise in cost of real estate is 33%. Maybe it's just me, but that seems a bit skewed.

But there have been times when I've had to pay rent with a credit card because I had been out of work for nearly a year. Then I had to pay all the moving expenses to move to a different state to get the job.

The point is that even economizing, there are times when expenses exceed income, and that it IS tougher to live now than in the past.

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Money makes me head hurt.
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Posted by: bettsoff on Jan 3, 2006 9:11 AM   
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It's not that I'm sinking, it's that I'm just not getting anywhere. Rent is outrageous. Housing prices are worse. I get paid a good bit but half of it goes towards non-elastic costs. I can only imagine the dough I'd be rolling in if real wages had risen with inflation the way they supposedly used to. Yeah, I have loans, I have a balance on my card, but it's nothing compared to the price I pay for the privelege of having a roof over my head. If my salary were raised by a third (probably a conservative guess of what it SHOULD be adjusted for inflation) or my rent cut in half, I could pay off my debt in 3 years and have a good start on a downpayment. As it is, I thank Eris I have health insurance and my car is paid off and running well.

I'll never get ahead like this. I don't have one piece of furniture that cost more than $40. My clothes come from outlets, close-outs, and goodwill. I don't have cable. My electronics are all at least 6 years old and my clock-radio I've had since I was 8. When I take vacations, I camp. It's cheap. And the point is not even that I want expensive furniture--my furniture is ugly but in fine shape, thanks--it's that I don't want to have to worry about retirement or doctor bills or oh-god-please don't-let-the-car-break-down this month. And right now the cost of living and the hassle and complications built into navigating the money system make that impossible. God help anyone who wants kids (I don't.).

I have a plan, of course (don't we all?). I need to get the hell out of my current area and into somewhere more rural. It's likely I won't find a job in my field at first but Camp Happy Jesus knows I'm not afraid of work. The whole system sucks. Even as I tuck money into 401(k) I wonder if I'll ever see it again.

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» RE: Money makes me head hurt. Posted by: lionhead
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I am mystified
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Posted by: NthnBrazil on Jan 3, 2006 9:50 AM   
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I can't relate to a lot of the hyperbole here, but I will open myself up a bit because I am really curious as to what I am doing right or getting more than others. I make approx. $100K working in NYC and live in a NJ suburb about an hour commute by bus. I have a wife who is a stay at home mom with a 3 yr old son, a $200K mortgage, two 2003 model year cars, about $10K in credit cards at 0% interest and 2 student loans to pay off (my wife's & mine). Admittedly my student loan is very low due to having gotten some scholarship money but I can't imagine that is the difference between me and the folks ranting on here. Everything I read tells me that $100K in NYC is like the lower middle, so it's not like I make a fortune. Our parents haven't really given us much money to get started (they don't have much). We got the down payment for our house mostly from our wedding presents and some other money we saved up, but it wasn't much (less than $15K). Nowadays with interest only mortgages you could probably do even better by buying and flipping in 3 years getting equity out of the appreciation of the house.

So what am I missing? Why is it easier for me?

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clinker
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Posted by: cottontail on Jan 3, 2006 10:11 AM   
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The U.S. is slowly but surely becoming a Banana Republic, so plan accordingly, if you can. The military is getting bigger, which will be needed to keep order when the semi-comatose wake up and start to rebel. If the fact that 50% of Republicans are fundamentalists doesn't scare hell out of you, you're brain-dead. Thankfully, most of the idiots who supported and still support the doofus in the White House will
suffer along with the rest of us when times really get tough.
They say young people don't vote. If that's true they will soon rue the day.

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Don't give in to the Bullies
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Posted by: laura153 on Jan 3, 2006 10:13 AM   
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I have the same story as everyone above. Five years out of college, lots of student loan debt. Good job, low pay. Live in LA, can't afford to live. Blah, blah, blah. I think just about everyone reading this article has a similar story. What I 'm not hearing, though, is anyone taking responsibility. I'll be the first to admit that racking up $20,000 in credit card debt when I was unemployed for a year and a half was a BAD idea. Even though it was for things like gas, groceries, electric bills, etc. And even though all those companies that I leaned on to provide me the credit to make those purchases are making an absolute fortune off the interest and fees they're charging me, I’m done whining about it.

Yes, the system sucks. Yes, they’re horrible, immoral people. But, seriously, what’s the point in continuing to be the victim of the big bad credit card industry? Join Debtor’s Anonymous, enroll in Consumer Credit Counseling, or just call your creditors yourself and work out a different payment plan. You can ask for a debt moratorium to take the pressure off for a few months. And here’s a news flash: You don’t really have to pay those minimum payments they’ve brainwashed you to think you have to pay. Tell them what you can pay, and make them accept it.

What is it they say about bullies? They back down in the face of anyone who stands up for her/himself.

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Real Estate Markets
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Posted by: dagoski on Jan 3, 2006 11:02 AM   
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A lot of folks have posted here that the writer should move out of LA. Well, there's a small problem with that. With the exception of a small number of vibrant metropolitan areas in the US, the job market is quite tough. This even holds true for people with scientific degrees and a portfolio of technical skills like myself. If you want a good job in the new economy sectors like IT then your best bets are metro areas like Boston, LA, San Francisco, Seattle, and maybe New York. So moving out of LA is not always an option. One of the problems with housing in America right now is that the prices are out of reach in all the places that you'd want to live. The places that are culturally isolated, economically depressed, and just flat out nasty are great bargains. But a place with a future? That's tough.

With regard to forgoing DVDs and all that, let me point out that with education, healthcare, decent housing and the rest becoming unobtainable, at least we can console ourselves with cheap consumer goods. Of course, cheap consumer goods and the hidden costs therin contribute to the lack of meaningful work for twenty and thirty somethings.

Also, raise your hands here: How many people in the twenty to thirty something are getting master's degrees not because they're consumed by a passion for whatever they're studying, but rather in order to get a reasonably good job?

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» RE: eal Estate Markets Posted by: owleyes

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Actually, Mom and I Have This in Common...
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Posted by: saramarie on Jan 3, 2006 11:19 AM   
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I work at just barely over the minimum wage (in NY state, at least, where the min. just went up to $6.75... the wage I was just making, so I'd better get a raise!) to pay my rent, sky-high energy bills, and college expenses that my loans wouldn't cover. I started out working full-time and going for 16 credits, but by November, I cut down to 24 hours a week and 13 credits. My grades were undoubtably better than when Mommy and Daddy first put in college before I dropped out, but damn, it was tough.

My mother, on the other hand, was never lucky enough for her parents to have helped her get through college at all. She worked double-shifts at a restaurant just to get enough hours in to pay her bills while attending a community college. Oh yeah, and she came from a middle class family. They just couldn't afford to put three children through college and support her youngest sister.

At least when Mom went to college, her loan paid for everything and then some. My Stafford loan won't even cover all of my SUNY college's tuition, and that's before fees and all that other crap. It is worth it, though. The only other choice is working minimum wage for the rest of your life, stuck with employers who break the laws and take advantage of you, and customers who treat you like an idiot. I wouldn't take it any longer than I have to!

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Holy shit 100K?
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Posted by: bettsoff on Jan 3, 2006 11:21 AM   
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Yeah, where I come from you'd have to fuck up bad to not be able to live on that much. I do understand, however, that the cost of living means you're so not so high on the hog as it appears at first blush. Hell, I make 36, which in my hometown would put me dead center but around here (Morris County, not so far from you) makes me pretty damn poor for a college educated kid.

Congrats on your success, I hope you keep the ball rolling, but really you couldn't pay me enough to live in NJ for any longer than I absolutely have to--and working in the city? Ack! Much rather I'd live in a small place, making less and wanting less, and having to deal with fewer people and cars. We make our choices. Good luck.

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A different perspective
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Posted by: ConnecttheDots on Jan 3, 2006 11:31 AM   
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While author Jodie Horn made a good case for economic hardship, she either ignored or simply overlooked a big part of the problem -- perhaps the crux of the problem -- that forces ever-growing numbers of people into dire economic straights, i.e., too many people having too many children. More people competing for limited resources drive up prices, but this in no way excuses exploitation of the poor by the wealthy.

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» RE: A different perspective Posted by: ConnecttheDots

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Strapped
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Posted by: DrgonzoSB on Jan 3, 2006 11:54 AM   
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The author is partly right, and the gentleman who counseled her to curb her needs and wants is also partly right, and some of the other posters are too. This is a complex issue, deeply rooted in the corporate takeover of this country, the demise of unions and worker power, and the outsourcing of jobs to lower-wage countries. We are told to spend, consume and buy at every turn, 24/7, by a sophisticated industry, and yet most of us are now underemployed, poorly paid, and without any company or publicly-funded safety nets. The more we try to keep up, the deeper we get stuck -- and there's no way out. No wonder Vegas is so popular, state lotteries, and poker -- for the vast majority the only road to wealth are games of chance. The Right's Rx does not work for the majority of us, but we are too cowed to get angry, and too disorganized to fight back and demand recourse...

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» RE: Strapped Posted by: drone

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livingthelife
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Posted by: livingthelife on Jan 3, 2006 12:56 PM   
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Sorry, love, but it's going to take a lot more than "writing letters to politicians" to change things. They are all crooks. If everyone would stop buying things, the whole system would grind to a halt. Boycott is the only power the people have left.

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livingthelife
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Posted by: livingthelife on Jan 3, 2006 1:30 PM   
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Here´s how the writer can make her dreams of a family come true: get on the Internet (while there still is one), find the cheapest rent in the US (try Corpus Christi, TX, Bellingham, WA, St. Louis, MO, for example) and move there. Find something you can do on the Internet to support yourself, such as freelance writing, translation, or selling something. Supplement your Internet income with a local job if necessary. The "haves" have been screwing the "have nots" for millennia and that's why we get packin' -- always have, always will. Good luck. (A two-bedroom costs $450 a month in Corpus Christi and the scenery and barbecue are great. Not all Texans are Bush supporters.)

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Stop the waste
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Posted by: greekTowner on Jan 3, 2006 1:45 PM   
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Stop buying crap you do not need and stop worrying about owning a house. That's an overrated dream.

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» RE: Stop the waste Posted by: drone

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Related Stories on Alternet
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Posted by: LMNOP on Jan 3, 2006 2:16 PM   
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See The Mugging of the American Dream, The Young And The Debtless, and Burying College Grads in Debt for more of the same on the loss of economic opportunity for younger Americans.

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Hold the Kids....
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Posted by: Fawkes13 on Jan 3, 2006 2:32 PM   
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I have a great life, some debt, I own my own home and make about 45K a year. I see myself enjoying myself as much as I do now- going out to eat, international travel, movies, Manhattan nightlife once in a while, etc. But only if I NEVER have kids. I agree with the author- what kind of 'family values' make it basically impossible to afford children?

Fortunately, I don't want any. I feel really bad for all my friends who are having kids (especially the two single moms!!) I would think they are going to have really difficult lives for the next few years. That's their choice. We do still have that choice left at least(until the family values crowd abolishes it). Basically it seems like people have to make the decision to live a nicer lifestyle (and use more resources) OR have children (which use more resources). That seems sad, but there are plenty of people in the world already, no? It's either you, or your kids. I pick me.

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» RE: Hold the Kids.... Posted by: mwildfire
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I probably can't live long enough to pay off my student loans
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Posted by: deha on Jan 3, 2006 2:39 PM   
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barring some kind of "live forever" breakthrough in medical technology. ((smile))

Since I started college so late in life (age 35), I probably won't increase my lifetime earnings by enough to cover the cost of my education. My choice of profession, though satisfying, isn't particularly remunerative, either.

But, hey. That's OK. Earning more money isn't necessarily the best reason for going to college. I'm an educated person, by anyone's standards, and that's really what college is all about, right?

Maybe I will never have the same financial and retirement possibilities as my parents (I'm a very late boomer). In my 20's I discovered that the more profitable but often soul-sucking occupations were not for me. I've had some time to come to terms with that, but the inequities in our economic system still make me fighting mad. I don't expect to be able to retire.

As the song says, I hope I die before I get old.

But in the meantime, I'll take what I can get. In my new career as a teacher, I believe I can do some good in the world. And the intellectual doors that were opened to me in college will remain of value to me forever. I'm opening those doors for my grandchildren now, and I hope for better days for them.

Yeah, I'm an idealist. Or a fatalist. Maybe more of a Marxist, even. So sue me. But I'm warning you, I'm flat broke.

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Life in the 20 something reality......
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Posted by: Ms. Clear on Jan 3, 2006 2:47 PM   
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My hubby and I can really relate to this article. I'll be sure to pick up a copy of that book.

As a 20-something, I can say that reality really does suck. LOL. Play by the rules, go to college, wind up underemployed. It happened to me and the hubby and not for lack of trying for something better.

It's really worked out much better for us than for many though. I am grateful for that. We have health insurance, a place to live and are able to save money. Will we ever be able to buy a house ? I don't know. I'm certainly not willing to take out some financially unsound mortgage. I'd rather rent and save.

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Hay, poverty is relative
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Posted by: IanA on Jan 3, 2006 3:49 PM   
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Good article and interesting comments, and except for a few notable exceptions they all point to the problem of a “me” society and an inordinate degree of competition in your society. My problem is bigger or my solution is the right one. I’m struck by how easily you blame the next guy, who some believe is spending too much or others think is not working hard enough or dirty enough. Hay, poverty is relative.

But mostly you have the same problems, higher educated or trained work force with reduced job opportunities, a property/real estate bubble (probably sustained by lenders and refinancing rather than real demand) and a treadmill existence between expectations, credit/debt, virtually no capacity to save and high stress levels, all lead by demand dominated employment corporate economy, compounded by a totally materialist view of your existence.

But you have been conditioned to see things as a jungle and see everyone as a competitor. You see earnings as the real difference between people. You may work hard to get 50 k a year, which makes you feel superior to your kids teacher who makes 35 k or a nurse taking home 30 k. Or, is their low wage their fault?

None would suggest that they should earn less so that the other can have a reasonable income, but that you should all have a right to a reasonable standard of living and reasonable economic security. So, as a society if you cannot figure it out for yourselves, as the richest economy on the planet, I really doubt your countries qualification in leadership for the future of the economic improvement of that third of the global population surviving on a dollar or less a day. Oh, I forgot, you earned it and deserve it. Right.

How about the words; Cooperation instead of competition, get together, organize, look at your fellows with compassion instead of blame. If you don’t like Wal-Mart, start a cooperative. If you want higher wages you’ll need to be organized. The corporations are and it’s not to pay you more unless you own them.

And while your at it can't you find a better use for your money rather than subsidizing, to the tune of a few trillion through your taxes, the terrorism of the rest of the world by your government and military, all on the excuse of a fictitious war.

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» RE: Hay, poverty is relative Posted by: mwildfire

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W00t
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Posted by: Llama11 on Jan 3, 2006 3:55 PM   
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Thanks Republicans, you just got my student loan opportunities in half. Now I'm in a grind. I don't have any money, I can't get enough loans to pay for school, and I don't what the hell I'm going to do. Nevermind I don't know what to do with an English degree anyway, I don't know if I'll even be able to get it. And then law school... to try and somehow change the system from within? More likely I'll become part of the system. Admittedly, I get lots of help since I'm mostly indigenous to North America, but even now, I can't seem to get that free education everyone says I get. Damn.

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W00t
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Posted by: Llama11 on Jan 3, 2006 3:55 PM   
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Thanks Republicans, you just got my student loan opportunities in half. Now I'm in a grind. I don't have any money, I can't get enough loans to pay for school, and I don't what the hell I'm going to do. Nevermind I don't know what to do with an English degree anyway, I don't know if I'll even be able to get it. And then law school... to try and somehow change the system from within? More likely I'll become part of the system. Admittedly, I get lots of help since I'm mostly indigenous to North America, but even now, I can't seem to get that free education everyone says I get. Damn.

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thankful
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Posted by: abbie on Jan 3, 2006 4:23 PM   
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I'm sitting in the UK reading this, and I have never been more thankful in my life.
Like most of the posters here, my family has to economise. My husband's career frankly sucks and I 'caught' ME just before getting my degree leaving me unable to work. Our clothes are discount or 2nd hand, we have no car, and my 6 year old son has never been on a non-camping, non-family visiting holiday.

BUT

We don't have to worry about rent (council flat, which is clean, bright, safe, warm and cheap - free for those who are old, out of work, or sick)

Our medical and dental needs are taken care of for free. (and we have needed a LOT. Our son had serious heart problems and spent 4 months in intensive care as a baby. I go cold even thinking about what would have happened of we'd had to find the money ourselves)

We (and every other family in the country) get child benefit. It isn't a lot, but pays for at least 1 weeks worth of food every month

We have student loans, but can defer indefinitely until we make a good living wage.

Best of all, instead of tax cuts for the wealthy, we have tax credits for families and disabled people which top up the (still tragically low) minimum wage until it is enough to support our family of 3. Our tax credit payment is substantially greater than the amount we pay in income tax.

It's not all rosy. House prices are obscene (and a source of obscene glee for our 'boomer' generation). Rent payments are even worse (most of our friends pay about 2 thirds of their salary to 'property investor' slumlords). Most jobs are low-level service industry - and they do require a degree for entry.

But when I compare our situation to the sheer grinding poverty and desperation a family like ours would be experiencing in the US, it almost makes me wish I had a deity to thank. I am a sick, former teenage mother with a formerly very sick child and a husband who makes minimum wage, and we have no debt, no looming financial catastrophe with the potential to ruin our lives, and our standard of living seems to be equal to that of most single young professionals posting here.

That's just wrong.

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» RE: thankful Posted by: bettsoff
» myalgic encephalomyelitis Posted by: Kneel
» RE: myalgic encephalomyelitis Posted by: bettsoff
» RE: thankful//nothing is free Posted by: nevermind

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Moving out is great, but...
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Posted by: Webimpulse on Jan 3, 2006 4:23 PM   
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First, I do apologize for making an entirely new comment thread instead of responding inside the thread this is directed at, but I didn't want my comment to get lost inside the pile of responses. The thread I'm responding to is "I'm moving to Canada so I can afford to have a family."

I do agree that moving out of this hellhole is a good option, especially for people like me. Each day I live here I find my will to live weakening. All this guilt by association - justified guilt, thanks to our tax dollars - is driving me to the point of suicide. I was moved to a respite home temporariliy after the travesty of Bush winning the popular vote in the '04 elections so I wouldn't hurt myself. I ended up actually hurting myself recently when I learned of the usage of chemical weapons in Iraq, like Fallujah, by taking a knife and leaving plenty of ugly red papercut-like scabs on both my arms. Living here, where I know I am responsible for all the atrocities in the world, is driving me to madness - I'm only 22 and already I want my life to end.

But to those who say I should move out, well, I got a good question for you. How? Moving to another country requires money. Lots of money. How am I supposed to come up with the money to cover basic airfare of a one-way ticket to another country? To get myself a decent permanent residence in said other country? To live in said residence until I can find a job to support myself? To get the education required to adapt to the culture of the other country, especially learning the dominant language? To cover the health insurance, both physical and mental, that I will require to manage my diabetes-addled physical body and my Asperger Syndrome-wracked mind?

Again, since I'm only 22 and fresh out of college, I have nowhere near the savings required to undertake such a monumental operation. And since the article itself does such a good job telling me how I won't even make enough money to stay alive, let alone move to another country, I'm as good as screwed.

Maybe since I'm screwed, those of you who so loudly advocate moving out can set up a "move Webimpulse out of America" fund so I can get the funds to move out before I finally blow my brains out in despair. Or maybe those of you who don't think I even deserve to live, being a white male American citizen, should just come over to my place and take my life for me, since I'm too much of a wuss to do it myself.

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» RE: Moving out is great, but... Posted by: mwildfire

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The saddest story I've seen on the Alternet
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Posted by: badkitty53 on Jan 3, 2006 4:30 PM   
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Yes, this is probably the saddest story and set of comments I've ever seen on the Alternet. I often wonder where this glowing economy the Republicans see is, since I really have never seen it. As the mother of a 23 year college student, my husband and I have struggled to pay to pay for his college (no help from him!) and only because I was able to save a lot during the dot.com boom (the only time we ever had an income approximating the middle class) have we been able to pay for it without resorting to anything but a small college loan and a small loan on the house (we bought a foreclosure the last time the housing market bottomed out, in 1992). All I can see is, there isn't much future, even with frugality and avoiding all the luxuries like cable or satellite tv, etc. (remember, TVs have only been around for about 50 years), and my husband, who finally has a permanent full time job again after more than three years of looking (he never had any college), is hoping a job will open up in Canada so we can move and he won't have to worry about healthcare after we retire at 70. In response to two comments, city jobs sure are nice, and my soon-to-be ex-sister-in-law makes more in her city job (and benefits too!) than my husband and I do put together. Trade jobs are great, but sometimes hard to get into and a good friend, who is a carpenter specializing in clean facilities, works for real jerks as he supervises remodels for big pharmaceutical companies. I think IanA has the best response, and believe me, if I could get rid of the Defense Department, everyone would be better off and probably a lot safer too. Good luck to everyone, and maybe if we cooperate, we can do in the corporations.

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» RE: BLAME g~d Posted by: Iconoclast421

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Just a paycheck away...
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Posted by: CLaudLaw on Jan 3, 2006 4:50 PM   
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I think it's time for everyone who feels any degree of comfort in this country to honestly assess why.

ON the surface I'm doing ok, I make a much higher wage than most doing activist work that I love. I have health insurance and some savings. I rent a nice apartment in a clean safe building. By many accounts I am a success story. But let's all be honest, two "flips of a coin" got me here: 1. Being lucky enough to have parents who could scrape by to afford sending me to a State University, and 2. Having a grandfather who was kind enough to help me and my parents with a year's tuition. These kinds of things are sheer luck of the draw.

Idiotic people tell me I made "wise" choices (state schools vs. private, not spending extravagently, not getting into credit card debt). That's bullshit. I was LUCKY, pure and simple.

And yet still, like most on this board, I have grave fears about having kids when I am 31 and 60K in debt from Grad School. I live in one of the most dangerous cities in America, I am 1 1/2-2 hours away from my job in one direction by commuter train. I spent 6 years in a building owned by a slumlord.

I have adopted the frugal lifestyle habits of my working poor parents, as well as their mantra, drilled into me at a young age: "We are all a paycheck away from disaster." Period. 95% of us are just one medical bill, one layoff, one natural disaster, or one ill-informed decision away from poverty.

Please, everyone, especially those who feel like they are safely ensconsed in the protective arms of the "middle-class", GET REAL. There is no longer a middle class in this country and we will have to fight like hell to get it back.

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Tone
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Posted by: Tone on Jan 3, 2006 5:50 PM   
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You guys can't see the forest for the trees.

You want the right job in the right town with the right house and a kid or two to complete the package. You also expect that that job will automatically pay enough for you to have all those things.

What we need to realize is that all those things are not birthrights. Time to let go of the myth of the American dream folks.

There's elements of truth in both arguments. Life is more expensive but our expectations have also risen considerably.

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» RE: Tone Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Tone Posted by: drone
» RE: Tone Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Tone Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: Tone Posted by: Tone
» RE: Tone Posted by: crusty
» RE: Tone Posted by: reebus

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Collectivize! Anarchism/Socialism within capitalism
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Posted by: 538T on Jan 3, 2006 5:58 PM   
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I'm a poor college student too, I work full time, study full time, and live below the poverty line, but I live a pretty comfortable life. Along with 7 other like-minded students I live in a nice big house ran as an urban collective. Individually, we don't make enough to eat or pay rent, but by pooling our resources together we prosper (its all about the economies of scale) -our city flat of 5400 sq ft is only $165 a month for rent per, the best deal in the whole city. Alot of people complain about Mexicans or Latinos doing it, but hey it works. The whole point is that in a failed or malevolent economy we on the bottom can only survive by establishing our own informal economic systems within which to live. I live an okay anarchist/socialist life within a bad capitalist system.
Now as for all the loans, I can't exactly collectivize those, but maybe i could defult on them and go to jail for a few years, lol.

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saving money on a low income
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Posted by: zeegit on Jan 3, 2006 6:24 PM   
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When I was in my mid-20s, I managed to save what seemed to me like a lot of money on an income of $30k while living in Washington DC. This was in the late 1990s. Maybe this can give some ideas to ppl who find themselves in a bind today. I do come from a privileged background in many ways and have advantages that others don't have, and I recognize that this is not for everyone. Here is what I did.

*No debt (Parents paid for college. I recognize this is a BIG advantage I had that most people do not have.)
*No kids
*No car
*Lived in a group house with 4 roommates - my share of the rent was about $260 per month. The group house was in an "undesirable" neighborhood but it was central.
*Commuted by bicycle (so not much spent on public transit either)
*Shopped exclusively at 2nd hand stores for clothes
*Next to no money spent on furniture. You can inherit beds, chairs, tables, etc from roommates in the group house that move on to new housing arrangements.
*Free entertainment - In DC there were always free events downtown, free movies if you look for them, volunteer usher to get into the theatre for free, go to parks, the museums are free, the zoo is free, etc. My paid entertainment was mostly the $2.50 2nd-run movie theatre and rented videos.
*No gym membership
*One phone line shared by the 5 housemates
*No cable TV
*No Internet (used the Internet at work)
*Shared food and went mostly vegetarian. The food budget can really stretch if you buy communally and take turns preparing food and buy lots of grains and beans and veggies.

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"Owning a home" often a misnomer
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Posted by: Dorothy.Lorenz on Jan 3, 2006 6:36 PM   
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The majority of us 20/30 crowd who own homes in non-cesspool US housing markets do so through tricky lending schemes like 125% lending (i.e., no down payment) and interest only mortgages (i.e., affordable mortgage payments).

These folks get to say they "own" a home, but because of how these mortgages work, they really don't have any equity. It's more like renting from the bank, without the benefit of free repairs and maintenance. All the risk of home ownership without the financial rewards.

I bet most of you posting here could find a lender who would give you a loan. You'd then join the folks who, chances are, will be screwed when the bubble bursts and everyone's loans are worth more than the homes are.

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» RE: "Owning a home" often a misnomer Posted by: Dorothy.Lorenz

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Buy Used, Avoid Debt
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Posted by: surroundedbybeauty on Jan 3, 2006 8:06 PM   
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Though I resonate with much that Horn writes, I have two points of rebuttal:

1) Horn writes: "Additionally, credit cards bear the costs of setting up an apartment and acquiring a professional wardrobe." You can furnish an apt. and acquire a professional wardrobe at 1/10 - 1/100 of the cost of buying new by purchasing from thrift stores and yard sales or finding furniture that others are tossing by cruising alleys.

I teach part-time at Cal State Long Beach, and I must dress professionally--generally suits, nice slacks and skirts. Rarely a week goes by without someone complimenting my attire, yet at least 90 percent of my clothes and jewelry and nearly 100 percent of my dishes and furniture have been acquired through alternate means. Yet I wear brand names, often items that still had the original price tags on them from Nordstroms or Macys when I purchased them.

2) When I discuss the above with my students as an alternative to credit card debt, they view me as someone from another planet. Consumption of new products is the paradigm that the vast majority of them are operating under, as are the overwhelming majority of all Americans.

Think outside the box. Buy used. Barter your talents. Stay out of debt. Basically, change the paradigm.

Heidi

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» RE: Buy Used, Avoid Debt Posted by: drone
» RE: Buy Used, Avoid Debt Posted by: badkitty53
» RE: Buy Used, Avoid Debt Posted by: surroundedbybeauty
» RE: Buy Used, Avoid Debt Posted by: surroundedbybeauty

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Thanks for the comments
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Posted by: AndyF on Jan 3, 2006 8:35 PM   
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I think I struck a nerve.

I'm amazed at the personal attacks and assumptions which people make. BTW my wife and I are somehow managing to raise 4 healthy and generally happy kids on ~$45,000/yr in central NY. No inheritances, we're paying a mortgage, have older cars and try to live within our means. Most of the people I know are also able to do the same and somehow their kids after finishing college or learning a trade are able to find jobs and make their way also.

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» RE: Thanks for the comments Posted by: YogiBear
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» RE: Thanks for the comments Posted by: sethx9
» RE: Thanks for the comments Posted by: Jasonix

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The "American Dream" is and always has been a myth of epic proportion...
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Posted by: quimper on Jan 3, 2006 8:50 PM   
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...and it's quite deadly for a number of fellow humans. Good luck to everyone who has yet to wake up to the reality of life on Planet Earth in the 21st century... and even better luck to those who have.

If there is a God, may he/she/it
Bless Everyone...
No Exceptions.

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» George Carlin says... Posted by: LMNOP

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strapped - please read and comment
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Posted by: wheels1950 on Jan 3, 2006 9:44 PM   
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As a parent of a 35 year old daughter I know all too well the problems trying to get by especially on the East and West coasts where the cost of living has skyrocketed.

I live in the midwest where homes as now starting to become unafordable as well. I don't see why people should have to wear hand-me-downs and sit at home very night.

Heres what bothers me:
1. Why have we voted in an administration that hurts the less than wealthy at every turn? Katrina, college loans, national health.
2. Why do we have a government that promotes outsourcing instead of stopping it? One law could stop all outsorcing.
3. Why when you say unions (where all the good pay came from) do people look at you like you just swore?

I know it doesn't look like your vote counts but it does if a lot of you vote, and not against gays or for intelligent design but for your own good. Unions may not be perfect but they are the source of good wages for large groups. We need a little socialism.

JLW

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THE WAY IT SHOULD BE
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Posted by: dadanbetty on Jan 3, 2006 10:03 PM   
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America is a corporation. Places such as: San Fran area, NYC, DC area, Seattle, Portland, Boston, etc, are all great places for the progressive thinking-minded, but how can one afford to live in any of these places....especially if you fancy eating real food and you didn't secure some property before the middle of the eighties? What if you have a dependent?

I moved out of the corporate bubble and moved to a developing Asian country a year ago. I live in a nice comfortable apt two floors above a French restaurant. If I go another 10 Meters, there are two more restaurants, a mini-mart and a french bakery. My apt is 54 sq meters and costs about $345.00 a month. Within 200 meters in three different directions of my apt is a buddhist temple, a Hindu temple and a mosque and nobody comes knocking on my door begging me to convert! Within 25 meters there is a street market and a grocery store. I have high-speed Internet, cable TV, eat real food, pay a very reasonable price for massages, enjoy a rich, diverse culture and do not have to own a car. If I want to watch movies I can either rent them from the video shop 25 meters away or I can just buy the lastest bootleg off the street for a cheap price. Can you even imagine what it would cost to enjoy this type of lifestyle in one of the aforementioned cities. I am in my early forties, have completed graduate school, and do more reading than writing, travel around to other countries at a very reasonable rate, do not work, and live off of mine and other people's taxes. Basically, my life does not include stress. My physical and mental health are sound.

America is an interesting place to visit. For all you people who possess a soul and a conscience and are stuck in the bubble for various reasons......my heart goes out to you.

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» RE: THE WAY IT SHOULD BE Posted by: rothermelgirl
» RE: THE WAY IT SHOULD BE Posted by: dadanbetty

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OKAY, so everyone who is advocating moving to another ctry...
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Posted by: rothermelgirl on Jan 3, 2006 10:55 PM   
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....or who is living in another country -- can you please fill me in on something? It is my understanding that, even if we were to find a way to get accepted by that country, barring forsaking our US citizenship altogether, we would be subject (if we made any sort of reasonable income) to a significantly increased tax rate all around...something like paying the host country taxes as well as US taxes (after a certain level of income).

Perhaps I don't have the story straight, but this does not seem very feasible to me (my taxes here are, what, 40% or so, and average about 60%-70% of income in Europe, I believe, as an example). Any enlightenment would be appreciated...and I don't mean enlightenment in the form of "dodge taxes" ;)

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Oh, that kind of strapped.
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Posted by: Kneel on Jan 4, 2006 3:05 AM   
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Poverty, even dire poverty, have been around for long time in the US. So, what I'm not clear on is if the problem is that it's affecting college-educated, fair-skinned folk, who though they should be exempt. Were they this upset when the poverty was at a more convenient remove?

Because though they have some possibility of getting out of it, or at least coping, there are a lot of people who have no hope but the pipe dream of hitting the lottery. And they cope with a lot more than well-educated, reasonably privileged folks seem to imagine is possible.

We've made very bad choices about using resources for a long time, or allowed them to be made for us. It does seem to be skewing worse, but it's been around for a long time.

A Swedish friend lived in a house that has one been part of summer camp for poor children. "But, with the war, the economy took off" she told me, "so there was no more poverty."

That stunned me. We don't even seem to think anymore of using an economic boom to actually eliminate poverty.



The consumption argument has little validity. When I lived in one of the cities mentioned above as having such cheap rent (and if you're can work on the internet, why live in a city at all?), after work (I worked two jobs, one-full time and mind-numbing) there was really nothing to do that didn't involve spending money. There were precious few pleasant places to walk or gather, no place with range to swim in a lake or river (things I love to do in the summertime)... there was only buying stuff. You work that schedule, make that pay, deal with the constant stress of a low wage life - from rapacious slumlords to cops pulling you over for driving an old car at night, live such an unrewarding life and then see how well you resist those little temptations to give yourself a bit of comfort.


Having lived in Canada, I agree that the quality of life is substantially higher. It's not paradise, but people do seem to have a little more control over how resources are used. One example - even the right wing of Canadian politics claims to be in favor of socialized medicine (and, for anyone wondering, I found the medical care there to be vastly superior to that of the US even when I had good insurance).


Funny, though, when I read the title I thought the book was about young people feeling a need to carry weapons.

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» RE: Oh, that kind of strapped. Posted by: bettsoff
» RE: Oh, that kind of strapped. Posted by: GirlCousin

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memorable mental picture
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Posted by: GirlCousin on Jan 4, 2006 11:31 AM   
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The mental picture from the author slamming el presidente's head on his oval office desk was priceless! Too bad Barbara didn't do more of that! Anywho, let's take this one step farther and the next time you hear someone rattle off that tired old cliche about the overpaid union people, rear back, get up on your hind legs and point out no one criticizes the obscene amount paid to CEOs, COOs, etc., etc. The first rule of accounting is we live in a scarcity of resources. They got theirs and....they got theirs.

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» RE: memorable mental picture Posted by: Jarnsaxa

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The Wrong Bubble?
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Posted by: K.J. on Jan 4, 2006 2:04 PM   
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I'm truly sorry to hear we're all doing so poorly. I have a question though: before the postwar boom years, weren't most Americans pretty badly off? There was the Great Depression...and before that, the ratio of rural-living to urban-living folks was the opposite of what it is today. They couldn't have afforded washers & DVDs even if such things had been available then.

What I'm suggesting is that the 1950s through 1970s was perhaps just a hiccup of prosperity, a period when we enjoyed (and came to expect) a much higher standard of living than we would otherwise have achieved without the types of programs other westernized countries have. Maybe it was an extended bubble, but a bit freakish nonetheless, and now that we're sliding down to a lower level, it seems tougher than it would if we hadn't peaked so high.

Now, as we decline, we're surprised that some industrialized countries are easier to get along in than ours. I'm not suggesting it's a natural rate of decline--corrupt policies and corporate piracy have accelerated the squeeze--but that the boom itself might have been an unusual ripple. We're simply returning to our own older model of having a general population that is mostly poor, while the elite are increasingly rich and powerful. We did not take advantage of our golden years to set up a better safety net. We don't have the happier, fairer medium that Canada and England have settled for.

So we'll suffer some more until we figure it out & vote in some changes.

In the meantime, I have to also say: we might be severely squeezed, but most of us still have it pretty good in a lot of areas.

I'm no optimist. I am disgusted and alarmed at our government's greedy and wasteful allocation of every last dollar to war and business. I feel lied to; I feel like everyone around me owns a house and two cars and has beautiful, healthy children--all things I'll never be able to afford.

However, I am keenly aware that a huge amount of the world's population has it worse than I do. I've been a lot poorer in my life than I am right now. But I have always had the eyeglasses I need to see clearly, clean water coming from the tap, never gone to bed hungry, and nobody's firing on my house in the night. That's more than millions of my fellow human beings can say. So I keep on voting & working to create change, and feel grateful for the blessings that I have.

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For starters: get a library card and don't buy the book
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Posted by: gerbear on Jan 4, 2006 3:19 PM   
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It is not the "baby boomers" who have done this. It is the greedy corporations who have outsourced your futures, mine and my children's. Many of us are in the same leaky boat. I am worried for my children=both college grads without debt cause they listened and went to state colleges which I could help them pay for and both had part time jobs since they were 14. Unfortunately, they did not listen about career choices and both went into "Communications". I am hoping they see the light soon and go back at night while they are still young enough to get a degree or trade ed in some other fields. Thankfully neither are spenders and both only have one credit card 'cause you need that. And, they both shop bargains or do without and do their own nails (a pet peeve) and have basic cable (another pet peeve). One has already bought an extreme fixxer upper in a changing area so I am very hopeful for her.
Good Luck to us all and I hope we take this country back for the working "middle class"

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Choices and choices
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Posted by: anothername on Jan 4, 2006 4:12 PM   
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I can appreciate all the comments people have made, but it comes down to individual choices for each person and each family, plus the cultural and societal messages we have been given officially and unofficially. Personally, I have been offered many jobs over the decades that I have turned down that would have given me an easy life. If I absolutely had to, I could find a good paying job and slip into the middle class lifestyle. However, what I object to is not being able to afford to live a healthy life, with activities, open fresh air, mental challenge, and low-cost expenses without having to work 50 hours a week in a a 10-year career track with some company that dictates how I dress, how I think, what my hours will be. Why cannot I find a part-time job that pays me a living wage if I choose not to own a car or buy a big house? Why cannot I work as a temporary or contractor without big-priced contracts for part of the year and afford to travel on a shoestring in lieu of buying cable TV and MP3 services? Why cannot I choose to stay at home with children while a life partner works a job he or she enjoys and takes sandwiches for lunch? This is what has changed in America. There have always been the very poor and the very rich, but people could choose the lifestyle they want and find work that would allow they to have it. That no longer is the case.

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» RE: Choices and choices Posted by: sethx9
» RE: Choices and choices Posted by: anothername
» RE: Choices and choices Posted by: sethx9

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Suck it up
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Posted by: eecooper on Jan 4, 2006 6:17 PM   
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I can understand not being able to buy a home in a major metropolitan area, and I can understand worrying about making enough money to have kids. But I don't understand how 20-somethings are having so much trouble.
I have a TON of debt from my undergraduate work. And I worked to make the difference between what my scholarships and loans would cover and what I needed to live on. But you know what? God bless Sallie Mae, because unlike other loans, college loans you can a) defer if you go back to graduate school b) pay off extremely low minimum payments each month c) enjoy low interest rates d) negotiate with them if you can't make your payments. So I don't see my college debt as a serious hinderance to my financial status. Maybe that's just because I'm in graduate school (and making a living wage doing it).
I did, however, switch graduate programs, leaving me in a 6-month paycheck lurch. Did I pay my rent using my credit card? No, I walked my sorry ass down to the grocery store, gave them my brightest smile, and landed myself a job at the checkout line. Yes, people treated me like I was stupid because they assume people working at the grocery store have never been to college (much less have masters degrees). I wasn't making a ton of money, and I certainly wasn't getting ahead financially. And it was an awful job- but I wasn't sliding further into debt. Anything I couldn't afford to pay it off right away, I didn't put it on my credit card. When my car broke down, I rode my bike to work until I could afford to get it fixed. And no, communiting by bike in Los Angeles is not pleasant. But sometimes you just have to suck it up.

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» RE: Suck it up Posted by: YogiBear

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John1969
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Posted by: johnjeffers on Jan 4, 2006 7:21 PM   
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Let me clue you to what life as a 20-something was like in the 1970's. My girlfriend and I graduated college in 1975. She received a Bachelor of Science & I received a Master of Science. Nixon controlled "stagflation" (stagnant economy w/ hyperinflation) w/ wage & price controls. Ford struggled to bring the Nation out of the worst economy in 20 years (mostly created by the influx of boomers into a workforce unprepared to absorb this huge number of new workers). By the end of the decade, Carter faced an oil embargo & high unemployment.My girlfriend couldn't find a teaching job. Inability to find a job in the profession for which a person was trained was common. Education loans were due.She took a job earning $50/week & a second job waiting tables (50cents/hr +tips). I took a job at $5600/yr & a 2nd job ($90/month) & a 3rd ($75/week)It was low pay for the time. We were on our own. As were our friends. "Easy credit" terms were not invented. We bought when we had the money. How did we do it? A used car and lots of cheap meals. A lot of beans. We turned to horse meat for a while. Horse meat farmers had a banner year in 1976. We wore the same clothes until they were worn out. We put cardboard in shoes to patch holes. No complaints.
Two things about the current economy. One boomer brought you a terrific economy. Another, flushed that economy. One boomer brought you the desktop computer and the iPod. Another is in bed with your future Chinese bosses, and is willing to have his company aid the Chinese censorship attempts.
1. If you voted for Bush once, shame on you.
2. If you voted for Bush twice, you are to blame for the coming "worst recession in world history" (scheduled to start in 2008 and scheduled to last until at least 2015.
My advice to 20-somethings today:
Buck up, suck it up, and, (given the economy is already f*** up), start making plans to work with the rest of us to take care of each other and ourselves.
Get out and work. Make something of yourself. And, make something of this world.
Stop living on credit. Stop buying stuff you don't need. Stop thinking anyone owes you anything.
Start looking to take care of the generation that brought you the tools you need to make something of yourself and the resources you need to make something of the world.
Eat your vegies, and listen to your mother. (turn off that damn light and shut the front door.... were you raised in a barn?)

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Lived Experience
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Posted by: lmwilker on Jan 5, 2006 8:39 AM   
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I live in Indiana and feel the pain that many of the Coasters feel. I carry $40,000.00 in student loan debt and earn $9.57 an hour with no insurance. My spouse has an advanced degree and an additional $20,000.00 in student loan debt and works for a "major research university" where he earns $33,000.00 a year after 20 years there in a position that is slated for elimination. We cannot afford to help our own children with their educations. We had to move a half an hour commute away from work to find affordable housing in a energy guzzling house built in 1921 and we drive a car that is over ten years old. When our last car broke down my husband hitchhiked to work for three months in the dead of winter until we could find another one we can afford. We haven't used a credit card in years but still have credit card debt. My parents, both high school graduates, made more per hour working in factories, dollar to dollar, not any of this adjusted crap, than either my husband and I make with college degrees. We live one paycheck away from utter financial disaster.

I totally agree with the plumber and have advised my children they should have a skilled trade and work for themselves. I personally think going to college was one of the stupidest things I ever did.

I don' t blame the Boomers I blame the "Me Generation." My parents are Baby Boomers and I am a Baby Boomer but we had totally different experiences. For the Me Generation everyone who came after was the "Screw You Generation."

We have ripped the heart out of the Hearland and America is bleeding to death because of it.

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the higher price of meritocracy
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Posted by: cultureindustries on Jan 5, 2006 9:41 AM   
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I recently went back to graduate school after 20 years in the workforce. Talk about sticker shock! I just didn't remember an education being so expensive. As an undergrad in the 70s I worked a summer job that paid my expenses for the whole year. Sure enough, I did a quick analysis and discovered in the 70s I could pay my tuition with about 225 minimum wage hours of work. Now my tuition is nearly 3000 minimum wage hours. In other words, you can't make enough money in a year of working more than full time to make the nut.

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